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\"end\": 658.086, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 658.086, \"end\": 658.286, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 658.286, \"end\": 658.466, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 658.466, \"end\": 658.787, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 658.787, \"end\": 658.907, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 658.907, \"end\": 659.007, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 659.007, \"end\": 659.087, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 659.087, \"end\": 659.127, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 659.127, \"end\": 659.268, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 659.268, \"end\": 659.328, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 659.328, \"end\": 659.388, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 659.388, \"end\": 659.408, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,309 --> 00:00:05,818\n各位請主委請主委委員好\n\n2\n00:00:06,724 --> 00:00:12,008\n謝謝主委因為上一次的公聽會您沒有來是副主委在現場我仍舊對於我們這一次金管會提出的修正廠案我要表達一個支持但是我有一個失望修法增訂介入權在123條之2當中我們很完整的我們讓符合一定條件的債務人的親屬在債務人清償債務之後可以承接原來有的保險契約\n\n3\n00:00:33,686 --> 00:00:49,630\n我們這樣的做法事實上也是兼顧了債務人跟債權人的權益就是他清償完之後他親屬是還可以承接原來有的保險契約但是對於豁免執行的規定我在上一次的公聽會表達說跟很多學者專家主張是一樣的我認為我們的修法仍舊有許多違德不足\n\n4\n00:00:56,531 --> 00:01:14,931\n甚至在修法的過程當中因為我們現在也有強制執行法是不是有疊床架屋的狀況我覺得我上次已經表達過我覺得修法應該是我們越晚修法應該是思考得越純熟如果還有地方要再\n\n5\n00:01:16,272 --> 00:01:36,586\n沒有再把它補上去我會覺得非常的可惜畢竟一個法要完整的時候經過這麼多次的公聽會然後這麼多的討論你們才有辦法通過行政院才有辦法送進來所以我待會提到的我一個失望的部分我還是希望主委可以後續如果在法的部分我們可以加強我們再來去做後續的處理喔\n\n6\n00:01:36,986 --> 00:01:52,260\n那我們回顧這次修法的背景在最高法院在111年12月做出裁定的時候允許保單可以抵債務之後這類強制執行造成法院很多書記官的負荷因為很多人保單非常非常的多\n\n7\n00:01:52,700 --> 00:02:08,861\n他必須要一張一張去做確認然後今晚會為了保障強制執行的債務人得以維持基本的保險的保障同時也期待提供法院第一線強制執行人可以有一個執法的標準才會提出這一次的修法\n\n8\n00:02:09,682 --> 00:02:26,194\n那我就要請問主委你對於這一次的修法你覺得能夠達到原來的預期的信心嗎就是說我們原來這一次修法的目標你覺得通過我們公聽會到目前你看到你的版本還有這麼多委員的建議你覺得有辦法達到您的目標嗎我想齁\n\n9\n00:02:29,453 --> 00:02:46,347\n這個修法如果能通過一定能夠產生非常顯著的效果但是是否能夠完全解決問題那當然不太可能那麼多的樣態但是我們可以看到如果真的比如說我們講最簡單先把健康傷害把它排除我想就大部分的健康跟傷害險\n\n10\n00:02:48,689 --> 00:03:02,156\n把它排除再來就是我們訂了一個合理的門檻值維持了基本的保障以後又可以大量排除一些現在在進行中的這些的保單那我想再來因為有了這個\n\n11\n00:03:04,088 --> 00:03:29,746\n那個法案以後大家知道未來某些保險的話它很有可能會成為這個未來強制執行的時候呢它某程度也會減少未來的可能的程度我想這個都是我們修法積極但是修法確實是剛剛有委員說你是贊成反對其實應該講比較精準應該是有條件如果個人是有條件的否定說確實我們有些情況完全支持肯定跟否定也不夠實際\n\n12\n00:03:32,208 --> 00:03:47,115\n那我的意思是說確實有些狀況比如剛剛有提到有人主張比如說小中老保險有他的社會政策性有人又主張一些比較特殊的狀況比如說弱勢的這些狀況這個都可以透過未來在我們在修法的調整過程當中尋求共識\n\n13\n00:03:48,496 --> 00:04:09,097\n主委這個就是我要強調未來在修法我們已經在修法為什麼不可以一次到位這是我談到就是說不符合豁免標準的其他各項保險契約的解約的債權現在強制執行法相關規定予以執行那我們修法的用意到底是什麼修法其實\n\n14\n00:04:09,858 --> 00:04:24,109\n不能只是自掃門前雪我們希望把不好把強制執行法沒有考量到的或者是我們怎麼樣把這兩個法我覺得我們思考的更完整或不足的地方我們兩邊把它匯成一次到位那\n\n15\n00:04:25,470 --> 00:04:53,504\n無論是保險法豁免的執行還有包括目前的強制執行規定其實有不同的地方就是說沒有考量到我覺得唯一沒有還有一點沒有考量的就是說在強制執行法裡面其實有考量到共同的生活親屬譬如說撫養的親屬父母還有未成年子女我們一併其實要放在豁免的對象裡面那我們的保險草案裡面就沒有這件事情就沒有考量到\n\n16\n00:04:55,065 --> 00:05:10,896\n這個是我在基層有時候沒有我知道就是說這個委員上次溝通的時候也有提到這個概念就是說其實我們現在是做一個特別的立法從保險的角度來看主委對不起你的聲音可不可以麥克風拉近一點對不起不好意思我把聲音開大一點\n\n17\n00:05:12,730 --> 00:05:41,258\n我想說我剛才提過了就是說實際上有關這個需不要考量像比如強制執行考慮到共同生活的家屬這部分一開始的時候我們是有這樣想的不過我們剛才講過保單畢竟不是一個我們一般的財產而且隨著我們年紀變大其實我們應該買很多很多的保單再來就是說這個保單還要考慮到每一張的保單還要總和還要考慮到多少的這個親屬會增加非常高的成本\n\n18\n00:05:42,518 --> 00:06:04,148\n可是主委強制執行法他們就有在做這件事情那個是他們在做的所以剛委員也提到說我們有沒有疊床架我們希望我們保險有些家庭他一輩子他可能就只有能力買一張這樣子的保單他只有能力買這樣你剛提到我們可能有很多的保單那或許是你所認識或您個人\n\n19\n00:06:05,689 --> 00:06:22,662\n有這麼多的保單但是很多人一家一家這一輩子他就只有買了一張這樣子的保單如果我們有考量的更完整的話那就可以馬上照顧他未成年的子女或他真的有什麼狀況他還可以就說我父母至少每個月還有一個我撫養的父母還有一個\n\n20\n00:06:24,023 --> 00:06:45,522\n最基本的生活依賴對像比如說我們這次的修法我們也仔細思考過這個問題我們也打破了過去說總和的概念我知道這個是我覺得我支持的地方對我們有各保單再來就是說如果每一個都要考量你這個共同生活其實這樣這又是一種判準的社會成本所以我們把那個額度呢用這個方式來解決這個問題其實這樣我覺得這是我們從保險的特別的考量我們也沒有跟隨我們強制執行的概念在進行主委\n\n21\n00:06:51,207 --> 00:07:13,801\n主委我還是要強調就是說我覺得我支持的是額度的豁免的計算我覺得這是一個進步的修法但我仍舊有一個失望因為我聽到的就是在豁免對象的部分你只有債務本人沒有考量他需要父母的上上下下這可以在額度上面做一些調整會更容易達到這個效果而且可以更簡正便民\n\n22\n00:07:15,366 --> 00:07:37,086\n這個未來看看你們後面再怎麼去做後續的處理我覺得這一點沒有做到我覺得是可惜就是我認為為德不足的地方所以我覺得在這一塊當中如果我們修法我們沒有辦法去紓解執行法院的壓力也不能照顧到弱勢的債務人家庭那我覺得這個修法我覺得\n\n23\n00:07:38,007 --> 00:07:56,097\n就不夠完整我會覺得非常的可惜因為我時間剩下不多我再問另外一個TISA的部分個人儲蓄帳戶的部分也是一直一路以來我非常關心的個人儲蓄帳戶的部分有租稅的優惠上次我跟您提過您提到說會在今年上路什麼時候要上路\n\n24\n00:07:56,637 --> 00:08:15,629\n有關那個我們分兩階段第一個第一階段就是說我們請吉保還有各個這個我們的經過讓利的部分我們已經規劃完畢六月會六月要上路那您覺得上路之後有沒有足夠的誘因讓所有還沒加入的民眾有足夠的誘因可以加入當然誘因每個人的看法不一樣\n\n25\n00:08:16,429 --> 00:08:35,022\n因為我目前看到的誘因你在第二階段只有要在第二階段才會爭取財政部的租稅優惠從目前我聽到或從媒體上看到你們就是把目前有的優惠就是加在一起這是第一階段第一階段那如果第一階段你預估第一階段應該目前應該可以達到什麼樣的成效\n\n26\n00:08:38,024 --> 00:08:59,504\n你每一個政策出來我們就要有一個評估值你會達到什麼樣的成效如果家人不夠多或規模不夠大那我覺得這個TISA就沒有達到你預期的政策的效果嘛所以我才會提的我一直問你說誘因在哪裡你沒有足夠的誘因第一階段達不到我們就根本不用去討論到第二階段啦\n\n27\n00:09:01,668 --> 00:09:17,840\n這個跟委員報告就是第一階段是我們能做的我們就已經趕快盡快來做第二階段我想這個難度我想這個委員也非常清楚我想就是主要租稅的優惠要有社會共識所以這部分我們在持續努力中\n\n28\n00:09:18,740 --> 00:09:35,035\n社會共識本來就是公部門要持續去溝通要有足夠的誘因那這可能不是你一個單位不是金管會可以包括財政部來配合我們跟財政部也非常非常密切的溝通你跟他溝通那他有答應你說要後面的租稅優惠要達到這個是賴政府卓院長的重要目標在財務會重要的目標政策\n\n29\n00:09:42,301 --> 00:09:59,948\n租稅的專業在他們但是我們政策的部分呢我們還在真的要在比這做周詳的溝通那我想說一有結果我們會兩方會跟大家做報告主委那我還是要問就是說你的你未來第一階段用戶數跟資金規模的指標你的最低你會不會設最低門檻\n\n30\n00:10:01,807 --> 00:10:29,282\n那你預估6月份要上線那你有沒有思考到多少人或多少金額你要達到預期目標是什麼對你的同仁應該有一個要求吧這我們最近因為我們制度剛建制完畢還有就等於說它裡面的一些的內容物還要請我們再跟業者來協商這協商完畢我們就會訂出這樣的一個預期目標這樣子主委我支持TESA我覺得這個是對國家來說是很重要對一個人\n\n31\n00:10:30,422 --> 00:10:57,485\n打拼了一輩子然後有一個長期穩定的儲蓄章很重要所以我一直在提誘因我希望你這個政策可以成功它是要怕部會的結合所以我認真認為我希望看到一個完整的報告你第一階段應該有多少資金規模你預估有多少人我後面才能再追說人不夠是因為你誘因不足那你財政部就要多支持租稅優惠我就幫你要求財政部支持所以我希望看到一個完整的報告好不好\n\n32\n00:10:57,705 --> 00:10:59,408\n可以可以謝謝沒問題謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝主委接下來請代委員會員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n309\t5818\t各位請主委請主委委員好\n6724\t12008\t謝謝主委因為上一次的公聽會您沒有來是副主委在現場我仍舊對於我們這一次金管會提出的修正廠案我要表達一個支持但是我有一個失望修法增訂介入權在123條之2當中我們很完整的我們讓符合一定條件的債務人的親屬在債務人清償債務之後可以承接原來有的保險契約\n33686\t49630\t我們這樣的做法事實上也是兼顧了債務人跟債權人的權益就是他清償完之後他親屬是還可以承接原來有的保險契約但是對於豁免執行的規定我在上一次的公聽會表達說跟很多學者專家主張是一樣的我認為我們的修法仍舊有許多違德不足\n56531\t74931\t甚至在修法的過程當中因為我們現在也有強制執行法是不是有疊床架屋的狀況我覺得我上次已經表達過我覺得修法應該是我們越晚修法應該是思考得越純熟如果還有地方要再\n76272\t96586\t沒有再把它補上去我會覺得非常的可惜畢竟一個法要完整的時候經過這麼多次的公聽會然後這麼多的討論你們才有辦法通過行政院才有辦法送進來所以我待會提到的我一個失望的部分我還是希望主委可以後續如果在法的部分我們可以加強我們再來去做後續的處理喔\n96986\t112260\t那我們回顧這次修法的背景在最高法院在111年12月做出裁定的時候允許保單可以抵債務之後這類強制執行造成法院很多書記官的負荷因為很多人保單非常非常的多\n112700\t128861\t他必須要一張一張去做確認然後今晚會為了保障強制執行的債務人得以維持基本的保險的保障同時也期待提供法院第一線強制執行人可以有一個執法的標準才會提出這一次的修法\n129682\t146194\t那我就要請問主委你對於這一次的修法你覺得能夠達到原來的預期的信心嗎就是說我們原來這一次修法的目標你覺得通過我們公聽會到目前你看到你的版本還有這麼多委員的建議你覺得有辦法達到您的目標嗎我想齁\n149453\t166347\t這個修法如果能通過一定能夠產生非常顯著的效果但是是否能夠完全解決問題那當然不太可能那麼多的樣態但是我們可以看到如果真的比如說我們講最簡單先把健康傷害把它排除我想就大部分的 健康跟傷害險\n168689\t182156\t把它排除再來就是我們訂了一個合理的門檻值維持了基本的保障以後又可以大量排除一些現在在進行中的這些的保單那我想再來因為有了這個\n184088\t209746\t那個法案以後大家知道未來某些保險的話它很有可能會成為這個未來強制執行的時候呢它某程度也會減少未來的可能的程度我想這個都是我們修法積極但是修法確實是剛剛有委員說你是贊成反對其實應該講比較精準應該是有條件如果個人是有條件的否定說確實我們有些情況完全支持肯定跟否定也不夠實際\n212208\t227115\t那我的意思是說 確實有些狀況 比如剛剛有提到有人主張 比如說小中老保險有他的社會政策性有人又主張一些比較特殊的狀況 比如說弱勢的這些狀況這個都可以透過未來在我們在修法的調整過程當中尋求共識\n228496\t249097\t主委這個就是我要強調未來在修法我們已經在修法為什麼不可以一次到位這是我談到就是說不符合豁免標準的其他各項保險契約的解約的債權現在強制執行法相關規定予以執行那我們修法的用意到底是什麼修法其實\n249858\t264109\t不能只是自掃門前雪我們希望把不好把強制執行法沒有考量到的或者是我們怎麼樣把這兩個法我覺得我們思考的更完整或不足的地方我們兩邊把它匯成一次到位那\n265470\t293504\t無論是保險法豁免的執行還有包括目前的強制執行規定其實有不同的地方就是說沒有考量到我覺得唯一沒有還有一點沒有考量的就是說在強制執行法裡面其實有考量到共同的生活親屬譬如說撫養的親屬父母還有未成年子女我們一併其實要放在豁免的對象裡面那我們的保險草案裡面就沒有這件事情就沒有考量到\n295065\t310896\t這個是我在基層有時候沒有我知道就是說這個委員上次溝通的時候也有提到這個概念就是說其實我們現在是做一個特別的立法從保險的角度來看主委對不起你的聲音可不可以麥克風拉近一點對不起不好意思我把聲音開大一點\n312730\t341258\t我想說我剛才提過了就是說實際上有關這個需不要考量像比如強制執行考慮到共同生活的家屬這部分一開始的時候我們是有這樣想的不過我們剛才講過保單畢竟不是一個我們一般的財產而且隨著我們年紀變大其實我們應該買很多很多的保單再來就是說這個保單還要考慮到每一張的保單還要總和還要考慮到多少的這個親屬會增加非常高的成本\n342518\t364148\t可是主委強制執行法他們就有在做這件事情那個是他們在做的所以剛委員也提到說我們有沒有疊床架我們希望我們保險有些家庭他一輩子他可能就只有能力買一張這樣子的保單他只有能力買這樣你剛提到我們可能有很多的保單那或許是你所認識或您個人\n365689\t382662\t有這麼多的保單但是很多人一家一家這一輩子他就只有買了一張這樣子的保單如果我們有考量的更完整的話那就可以馬上照顧他未成年的子女或他真的有什麼狀況他還可以就說我父母至少每個月還有一個我撫養的父母還有一個\n384023\t405522\t最基本的生活依賴對 像比如說我們這次的修法我們也仔細思考過這個問題我們也打破了過去說總和的概念我知道 這個是我覺得我支持的地方對 我們有各保單再來就是說如果每一個都要考量你這個共同生活其實這樣這又是一種判準的社會成本所以我們把那個額度呢用這個方式來解決這個問題其實這樣我覺得這是我們從保險的特別的考量我們也沒有跟隨我們強制執行的概念在進行主委\n411207\t433801\t主委我還是要強調就是說我覺得我支持的是額度的豁免的計算我覺得這是一個進步的修法但我仍舊有一個失望因為我聽到的就是在豁免對象的部分你只有債務本人沒有考量他需要父母的上上下下 這可以在額度上面做一些調整會更容易達到這個效果而且可以更簡正便民\n435366\t457086\t這個未來看看你們後面再怎麼去做後續的處理我覺得這一點沒有做到我覺得是可惜就是我認為為德不足的地方所以我覺得在這一塊當中如果我們修法我們沒有辦法去紓解執行法院的壓力也不能照顧到弱勢的債務人家庭那我覺得這個修法我覺得\n458007\t476097\t就不夠完整我會覺得非常的可惜因為我時間剩下不多我再問另外一個TISA的部分個人儲蓄帳戶的部分也是一直一路以來我非常關心的個人儲蓄帳戶的部分有租稅的優惠上次我跟您提過您提到說會在今年上路什麼時候要上路\n476637\t495629\t有關那個我們分兩階段第一個第一階段就是說我們請吉保還有各個這個我們的經過讓利的部分我們已經規劃完畢六月會六月要上路那您覺得上路之後有沒有足夠的誘因讓所有還沒加入的民眾有足夠的誘因可以加入當然誘因每個人的看法不一樣\n496429\t515022\t因為我目前看到的誘因你在第二階段只有要在第二階段才會爭取財政部的租稅優惠從目前我聽到或從媒體上看到你們就是把目前有的優惠就是加在一起這是第一階段第一階段那如果第一階段你預估第一階段應該目前應該可以達到什麼樣的成效\n518024\t539504\t你每一個政策出來我們就要有一個評估值你會達到什麼樣的成效如果家人不夠多或規模不夠大那我覺得這個TISA就沒有達到你預期的政策的效果嘛所以我才會提的我一直問你說誘因在哪裡你沒有足夠的誘因第一階段達不到我們就根本不用去討論到第二階段啦\n541668\t557840\t這個跟委員報告就是第一階段是我們能做的我們就已經趕快盡快來做第二階段我想這個難度我想這個委員也非常清楚我想就是主要租稅的優惠要有社會共識所以這部分我們在持續努力中\n558740\t575035\t社會共識本來就是公部門要持續去溝通要有足夠的誘因那這可能不是你一個單位不是金管會可以包括財政部來配合我們跟財政部也非常非常密切的溝通你跟他溝通那他有答應你說要後面的租稅優惠要達到這個是賴政府卓院長的重要目標在財務會重要的目標政策\n582301\t599948\t租稅的專業在他們但是我們政策的部分呢我們還在真的要在比這做周詳的溝通那我想說一有結果我們會兩方會跟大家做報告主委那我還是要問就是說你的你未來第一階段用戶數跟資金規模的指標你的最低你會不會設最低門檻\n601807\t629282\t那你預估6月份要上線那你有沒有思考到多少人或多少金額你要達到預期目標是什麼對你的同仁應該有一個要求吧這我們最近因為我們制度剛建制完畢還有就等於說它裡面的一些的內容物還要請我們再跟業者來協商這協商完畢我們就會訂出這樣的一個預期目標這樣子 主委我支持TESA我覺得這個是對國家來說是很重要對一個人\n630422\t657485\t打拼了一輩子然後有一個長期穩定的儲蓄章很重要所以我一直在提誘因我希望你這個政策可以成功它是要怕部會的結合所以我認真認為我希望看到一個完整的報告你第一階段應該有多少資金規模你預估有多少人我後面才能再追說人不夠是因為你誘因不足那你財政部就要多支持租稅優惠我就幫你要求財政部支持所以我希望看到一個完整的報告好不好\n657705\t659408\t可以 可以 謝謝沒問題 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝委員 謝謝主委接下來請代委員會員質詢\n","txt":"各位請主委請主委委員好\n謝謝主委因為上一次的公聽會您沒有來是副主委在現場我仍舊對於我們這一次金管會提出的修正廠案我要表達一個支持但是我有一個失望修法增訂介入權在123條之2當中我們很完整的我們讓符合一定條件的債務人的親屬在債務人清償債務之後可以承接原來有的保險契約\n我們這樣的做法事實上也是兼顧了債務人跟債權人的權益就是他清償完之後他親屬是還可以承接原來有的保險契約但是對於豁免執行的規定我在上一次的公聽會表達說跟很多學者專家主張是一樣的我認為我們的修法仍舊有許多違德不足\n甚至在修法的過程當中因為我們現在也有強制執行法是不是有疊床架屋的狀況我覺得我上次已經表達過我覺得修法應該是我們越晚修法應該是思考得越純熟如果還有地方要再\n沒有再把它補上去我會覺得非常的可惜畢竟一個法要完整的時候經過這麼多次的公聽會然後這麼多的討論你們才有辦法通過行政院才有辦法送進來所以我待會提到的我一個失望的部分我還是希望主委可以後續如果在法的部分我們可以加強我們再來去做後續的處理喔\n那我們回顧這次修法的背景在最高法院在111年12月做出裁定的時候允許保單可以抵債務之後這類強制執行造成法院很多書記官的負荷因為很多人保單非常非常的多\n他必須要一張一張去做確認然後今晚會為了保障強制執行的債務人得以維持基本的保險的保障同時也期待提供法院第一線強制執行人可以有一個執法的標準才會提出這一次的修法\n那我就要請問主委你對於這一次的修法你覺得能夠達到原來的預期的信心嗎就是說我們原來這一次修法的目標你覺得通過我們公聽會到目前你看到你的版本還有這麼多委員的建議你覺得有辦法達到您的目標嗎我想齁\n這個修法如果能通過一定能夠產生非常顯著的效果但是是否能夠完全解決問題那當然不太可能那麼多的樣態但是我們可以看到如果真的比如說我們講最簡單先把健康傷害把它排除我想就大部分的 健康跟傷害險\n把它排除再來就是我們訂了一個合理的門檻值維持了基本的保障以後又可以大量排除一些現在在進行中的這些的保單那我想再來因為有了這個\n那個法案以後大家知道未來某些保險的話它很有可能會成為這個未來強制執行的時候呢它某程度也會減少未來的可能的程度我想這個都是我們修法積極但是修法確實是剛剛有委員說你是贊成反對其實應該講比較精準應該是有條件如果個人是有條件的否定說確實我們有些情況完全支持肯定跟否定也不夠實際\n那我的意思是說 確實有些狀況 比如剛剛有提到有人主張 比如說小中老保險有他的社會政策性有人又主張一些比較特殊的狀況 比如說弱勢的這些狀況這個都可以透過未來在我們在修法的調整過程當中尋求共識\n主委這個就是我要強調未來在修法我們已經在修法為什麼不可以一次到位這是我談到就是說不符合豁免標準的其他各項保險契約的解約的債權現在強制執行法相關規定予以執行那我們修法的用意到底是什麼修法其實\n不能只是自掃門前雪我們希望把不好把強制執行法沒有考量到的或者是我們怎麼樣把這兩個法我覺得我們思考的更完整或不足的地方我們兩邊把它匯成一次到位那\n無論是保險法豁免的執行還有包括目前的強制執行規定其實有不同的地方就是說沒有考量到我覺得唯一沒有還有一點沒有考量的就是說在強制執行法裡面其實有考量到共同的生活親屬譬如說撫養的親屬父母還有未成年子女我們一併其實要放在豁免的對象裡面那我們的保險草案裡面就沒有這件事情就沒有考量到\n這個是我在基層有時候沒有我知道就是說這個委員上次溝通的時候也有提到這個概念就是說其實我們現在是做一個特別的立法從保險的角度來看主委對不起你的聲音可不可以麥克風拉近一點對不起不好意思我把聲音開大一點\n我想說我剛才提過了就是說實際上有關這個需不要考量像比如強制執行考慮到共同生活的家屬這部分一開始的時候我們是有這樣想的不過我們剛才講過保單畢竟不是一個我們一般的財產而且隨著我們年紀變大其實我們應該買很多很多的保單再來就是說這個保單還要考慮到每一張的保單還要總和還要考慮到多少的這個親屬會增加非常高的成本\n可是主委強制執行法他們就有在做這件事情那個是他們在做的所以剛委員也提到說我們有沒有疊床架我們希望我們保險有些家庭他一輩子他可能就只有能力買一張這樣子的保單他只有能力買這樣你剛提到我們可能有很多的保單那或許是你所認識或您個人\n有這麼多的保單但是很多人一家一家這一輩子他就只有買了一張這樣子的保單如果我們有考量的更完整的話那就可以馬上照顧他未成年的子女或他真的有什麼狀況他還可以就說我父母至少每個月還有一個我撫養的父母還有一個\n最基本的生活依賴對 像比如說我們這次的修法我們也仔細思考過這個問題我們也打破了過去說總和的概念我知道 這個是我覺得我支持的地方對 我們有各保單再來就是說如果每一個都要考量你這個共同生活其實這樣這又是一種判準的社會成本所以我們把那個額度呢用這個方式來解決這個問題其實這樣我覺得這是我們從保險的特別的考量我們也沒有跟隨我們強制執行的概念在進行主委\n主委我還是要強調就是說我覺得我支持的是額度的豁免的計算我覺得這是一個進步的修法但我仍舊有一個失望因為我聽到的就是在豁免對象的部分你只有債務本人沒有考量他需要父母的上上下下 這可以在額度上面做一些調整會更容易達到這個效果而且可以更簡正便民\n這個未來看看你們後面再怎麼去做後續的處理我覺得這一點沒有做到我覺得是可惜就是我認為為德不足的地方所以我覺得在這一塊當中如果我們修法我們沒有辦法去紓解執行法院的壓力也不能照顧到弱勢的債務人家庭那我覺得這個修法我覺得\n就不夠完整我會覺得非常的可惜因為我時間剩下不多我再問另外一個TISA的部分個人儲蓄帳戶的部分也是一直一路以來我非常關心的個人儲蓄帳戶的部分有租稅的優惠上次我跟您提過您提到說會在今年上路什麼時候要上路\n有關那個我們分兩階段第一個第一階段就是說我們請吉保還有各個這個我們的經過讓利的部分我們已經規劃完畢六月會六月要上路那您覺得上路之後有沒有足夠的誘因讓所有還沒加入的民眾有足夠的誘因可以加入當然誘因每個人的看法不一樣\n因為我目前看到的誘因你在第二階段只有要在第二階段才會爭取財政部的租稅優惠從目前我聽到或從媒體上看到你們就是把目前有的優惠就是加在一起這是第一階段第一階段那如果第一階段你預估第一階段應該目前應該可以達到什麼樣的成效\n你每一個政策出來我們就要有一個評估值你會達到什麼樣的成效如果家人不夠多或規模不夠大那我覺得這個TISA就沒有達到你預期的政策的效果嘛所以我才會提的我一直問你說誘因在哪裡你沒有足夠的誘因第一階段達不到我們就根本不用去討論到第二階段啦\n這個跟委員報告就是第一階段是我們能做的我們就已經趕快盡快來做第二階段我想這個難度我想這個委員也非常清楚我想就是主要租稅的優惠要有社會共識所以這部分我們在持續努力中\n社會共識本來就是公部門要持續去溝通要有足夠的誘因那這可能不是你一個單位不是金管會可以包括財政部來配合我們跟財政部也非常非常密切的溝通你跟他溝通那他有答應你說要後面的租稅優惠要達到這個是賴政府卓院長的重要目標在財務會重要的目標政策\n租稅的專業在他們但是我們政策的部分呢我們還在真的要在比這做周詳的溝通那我想說一有結果我們會兩方會跟大家做報告主委那我還是要問就是說你的你未來第一階段用戶數跟資金規模的指標你的最低你會不會設最低門檻\n那你預估6月份要上線那你有沒有思考到多少人或多少金額你要達到預期目標是什麼對你的同仁應該有一個要求吧這我們最近因為我們制度剛建制完畢還有就等於說它裡面的一些的內容物還要請我們再跟業者來協商這協商完畢我們就會訂出這樣的一個預期目標這樣子 主委我支持TESA我覺得這個是對國家來說是很重要對一個人\n打拼了一輩子然後有一個長期穩定的儲蓄章很重要所以我一直在提誘因我希望你這個政策可以成功它是要怕部會的結合所以我認真認為我希望看到一個完整的報告你第一階段應該有多少資金規模你預估有多少人我後面才能再追說人不夠是因為你誘因不足那你財政部就要多支持租稅優惠我就幫你要求財政部支持所以我希望看到一個完整的報告好不好\n可以 可以 謝謝沒問題 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝委員 謝謝主委接下來請代委員會員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.309 --> 00:05.818\n各位請主委請主委委員好\n\n00:06.724 --> 00:12.008\n謝謝主委因為上一次的公聽會您沒有來是副主委在現場我仍舊對於我們這一次金管會提出的修正廠案我要表達一個支持但是我有一個失望修法增訂介入權在123條之2當中我們很完整的我們讓符合一定條件的債務人的親屬在債務人清償債務之後可以承接原來有的保險契約\n\n00:33.686 --> 00:49.630\n我們這樣的做法事實上也是兼顧了債務人跟債權人的權益就是他清償完之後他親屬是還可以承接原來有的保險契約但是對於豁免執行的規定我在上一次的公聽會表達說跟很多學者專家主張是一樣的我認為我們的修法仍舊有許多違德不足\n\n00:56.531 --> 01:14.931\n甚至在修法的過程當中因為我們現在也有強制執行法是不是有疊床架屋的狀況我覺得我上次已經表達過我覺得修法應該是我們越晚修法應該是思考得越純熟如果還有地方要再\n\n01:16.272 --> 01:36.586\n沒有再把它補上去我會覺得非常的可惜畢竟一個法要完整的時候經過這麼多次的公聽會然後這麼多的討論你們才有辦法通過行政院才有辦法送進來所以我待會提到的我一個失望的部分我還是希望主委可以後續如果在法的部分我們可以加強我們再來去做後續的處理喔\n\n01:36.986 --> 01:52.260\n那我們回顧這次修法的背景在最高法院在111年12月做出裁定的時候允許保單可以抵債務之後這類強制執行造成法院很多書記官的負荷因為很多人保單非常非常的多\n\n01:52.700 --> 02:08.861\n他必須要一張一張去做確認然後今晚會為了保障強制執行的債務人得以維持基本的保險的保障同時也期待提供法院第一線強制執行人可以有一個執法的標準才會提出這一次的修法\n\n02:09.682 --> 02:26.194\n那我就要請問主委你對於這一次的修法你覺得能夠達到原來的預期的信心嗎就是說我們原來這一次修法的目標你覺得通過我們公聽會到目前你看到你的版本還有這麼多委員的建議你覺得有辦法達到您的目標嗎我想齁\n\n02:29.453 --> 02:46.347\n這個修法如果能通過一定能夠產生非常顯著的效果但是是否能夠完全解決問題那當然不太可能那麼多的樣態但是我們可以看到如果真的比如說我們講最簡單先把健康傷害把它排除我想就大部分的健康跟傷害險\n\n02:48.689 --> 03:02.156\n把它排除再來就是我們訂了一個合理的門檻值維持了基本的保障以後又可以大量排除一些現在在進行中的這些的保單那我想再來因為有了這個\n\n03:04.088 --> 03:29.746\n那個法案以後大家知道未來某些保險的話它很有可能會成為這個未來強制執行的時候呢它某程度也會減少未來的可能的程度我想這個都是我們修法積極但是修法確實是剛剛有委員說你是贊成反對其實應該講比較精準應該是有條件如果個人是有條件的否定說確實我們有些情況完全支持肯定跟否定也不夠實際\n\n03:32.208 --> 03:47.115\n那我的意思是說確實有些狀況比如剛剛有提到有人主張比如說小中老保險有他的社會政策性有人又主張一些比較特殊的狀況比如說弱勢的這些狀況這個都可以透過未來在我們在修法的調整過程當中尋求共識\n\n03:48.496 --> 04:09.097\n主委這個就是我要強調未來在修法我們已經在修法為什麼不可以一次到位這是我談到就是說不符合豁免標準的其他各項保險契約的解約的債權現在強制執行法相關規定予以執行那我們修法的用意到底是什麼修法其實\n\n04:09.858 --> 04:24.109\n不能只是自掃門前雪我們希望把不好把強制執行法沒有考量到的或者是我們怎麼樣把這兩個法我覺得我們思考的更完整或不足的地方我們兩邊把它匯成一次到位那\n\n04:25.470 --> 04:53.504\n無論是保險法豁免的執行還有包括目前的強制執行規定其實有不同的地方就是說沒有考量到我覺得唯一沒有還有一點沒有考量的就是說在強制執行法裡面其實有考量到共同的生活親屬譬如說撫養的親屬父母還有未成年子女我們一併其實要放在豁免的對象裡面那我們的保險草案裡面就沒有這件事情就沒有考量到\n\n04:55.065 --> 05:10.896\n這個是我在基層有時候沒有我知道就是說這個委員上次溝通的時候也有提到這個概念就是說其實我們現在是做一個特別的立法從保險的角度來看主委對不起你的聲音可不可以麥克風拉近一點對不起不好意思我把聲音開大一點\n\n05:12.730 --> 05:41.258\n我想說我剛才提過了就是說實際上有關這個需不要考量像比如強制執行考慮到共同生活的家屬這部分一開始的時候我們是有這樣想的不過我們剛才講過保單畢竟不是一個我們一般的財產而且隨著我們年紀變大其實我們應該買很多很多的保單再來就是說這個保單還要考慮到每一張的保單還要總和還要考慮到多少的這個親屬會增加非常高的成本\n\n05:42.518 --> 06:04.148\n可是主委強制執行法他們就有在做這件事情那個是他們在做的所以剛委員也提到說我們有沒有疊床架我們希望我們保險有些家庭他一輩子他可能就只有能力買一張這樣子的保單他只有能力買這樣你剛提到我們可能有很多的保單那或許是你所認識或您個人\n\n06:05.689 --> 06:22.662\n有這麼多的保單但是很多人一家一家這一輩子他就只有買了一張這樣子的保單如果我們有考量的更完整的話那就可以馬上照顧他未成年的子女或他真的有什麼狀況他還可以就說我父母至少每個月還有一個我撫養的父母還有一個\n\n06:24.023 --> 06:45.522\n最基本的生活依賴對像比如說我們這次的修法我們也仔細思考過這個問題我們也打破了過去說總和的概念我知道這個是我覺得我支持的地方對我們有各保單再來就是說如果每一個都要考量你這個共同生活其實這樣這又是一種判準的社會成本所以我們把那個額度呢用這個方式來解決這個問題其實這樣我覺得這是我們從保險的特別的考量我們也沒有跟隨我們強制執行的概念在進行主委\n\n06:51.207 --> 07:13.801\n主委我還是要強調就是說我覺得我支持的是額度的豁免的計算我覺得這是一個進步的修法但我仍舊有一個失望因為我聽到的就是在豁免對象的部分你只有債務本人沒有考量他需要父母的上上下下這可以在額度上面做一些調整會更容易達到這個效果而且可以更簡正便民\n\n07:15.366 --> 07:37.086\n這個未來看看你們後面再怎麼去做後續的處理我覺得這一點沒有做到我覺得是可惜就是我認為為德不足的地方所以我覺得在這一塊當中如果我們修法我們沒有辦法去紓解執行法院的壓力也不能照顧到弱勢的債務人家庭那我覺得這個修法我覺得\n\n07:38.007 --> 07:56.097\n就不夠完整我會覺得非常的可惜因為我時間剩下不多我再問另外一個TISA的部分個人儲蓄帳戶的部分也是一直一路以來我非常關心的個人儲蓄帳戶的部分有租稅的優惠上次我跟您提過您提到說會在今年上路什麼時候要上路\n\n07:56.637 --> 08:15.629\n有關那個我們分兩階段第一個第一階段就是說我們請吉保還有各個這個我們的經過讓利的部分我們已經規劃完畢六月會六月要上路那您覺得上路之後有沒有足夠的誘因讓所有還沒加入的民眾有足夠的誘因可以加入當然誘因每個人的看法不一樣\n\n08:16.429 --> 08:35.022\n因為我目前看到的誘因你在第二階段只有要在第二階段才會爭取財政部的租稅優惠從目前我聽到或從媒體上看到你們就是把目前有的優惠就是加在一起這是第一階段第一階段那如果第一階段你預估第一階段應該目前應該可以達到什麼樣的成效\n\n08:38.024 --> 08:59.504\n你每一個政策出來我們就要有一個評估值你會達到什麼樣的成效如果家人不夠多或規模不夠大那我覺得這個TISA就沒有達到你預期的政策的效果嘛所以我才會提的我一直問你說誘因在哪裡你沒有足夠的誘因第一階段達不到我們就根本不用去討論到第二階段啦\n\n09:01.668 --> 09:17.840\n這個跟委員報告就是第一階段是我們能做的我們就已經趕快盡快來做第二階段我想這個難度我想這個委員也非常清楚我想就是主要租稅的優惠要有社會共識所以這部分我們在持續努力中\n\n09:18.740 --> 09:35.035\n社會共識本來就是公部門要持續去溝通要有足夠的誘因那這可能不是你一個單位不是金管會可以包括財政部來配合我們跟財政部也非常非常密切的溝通你跟他溝通那他有答應你說要後面的租稅優惠要達到這個是賴政府卓院長的重要目標在財務會重要的目標政策\n\n09:42.301 --> 09:59.948\n租稅的專業在他們但是我們政策的部分呢我們還在真的要在比這做周詳的溝通那我想說一有結果我們會兩方會跟大家做報告主委那我還是要問就是說你的你未來第一階段用戶數跟資金規模的指標你的最低你會不會設最低門檻\n\n10:01.807 --> 10:29.282\n那你預估6月份要上線那你有沒有思考到多少人或多少金額你要達到預期目標是什麼對你的同仁應該有一個要求吧這我們最近因為我們制度剛建制完畢還有就等於說它裡面的一些的內容物還要請我們再跟業者來協商這協商完畢我們就會訂出這樣的一個預期目標這樣子主委我支持TESA我覺得這個是對國家來說是很重要對一個人\n\n10:30.422 --> 10:57.485\n打拼了一輩子然後有一個長期穩定的儲蓄章很重要所以我一直在提誘因我希望你這個政策可以成功它是要怕部會的結合所以我認真認為我希望看到一個完整的報告你第一階段應該有多少資金規模你預估有多少人我後面才能再追說人不夠是因為你誘因不足那你財政部就要多支持租稅優惠我就幫你要求財政部支持所以我希望看到一個完整的報告好不好\n\n10:57.705 --> 10:59.408\n可以可以謝謝沒問題謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝主委接下來請代委員會員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.309,"end":5.818,"text":"各位請主委請主委委員好"},{"start":6.724,"end":12.008,"text":"謝謝主委因為上一次的公聽會您沒有來是副主委在現場我仍舊對於我們這一次金管會提出的修正廠案我要表達一個支持但是我有一個失望修法增訂介入權在123條之2當中我們很完整的我們讓符合一定條件的債務人的親屬在債務人清償債務之後可以承接原來有的保險契約"},{"start":33.686,"end":49.63,"text":"我們這樣的做法事實上也是兼顧了債務人跟債權人的權益就是他清償完之後他親屬是還可以承接原來有的保險契約但是對於豁免執行的規定我在上一次的公聽會表達說跟很多學者專家主張是一樣的我認為我們的修法仍舊有許多違德不足"},{"start":56.531,"end":74.931,"text":"甚至在修法的過程當中因為我們現在也有強制執行法是不是有疊床架屋的狀況我覺得我上次已經表達過我覺得修法應該是我們越晚修法應該是思考得越純熟如果還有地方要再"},{"start":76.272,"end":96.586,"text":"沒有再把它補上去我會覺得非常的可惜畢竟一個法要完整的時候經過這麼多次的公聽會然後這麼多的討論你們才有辦法通過行政院才有辦法送進來所以我待會提到的我一個失望的部分我還是希望主委可以後續如果在法的部分我們可以加強我們再來去做後續的處理喔"},{"start":96.986,"end":112.26,"text":"那我們回顧這次修法的背景在最高法院在111年12月做出裁定的時候允許保單可以抵債務之後這類強制執行造成法院很多書記官的負荷因為很多人保單非常非常的多"},{"start":112.7,"end":128.861,"text":"他必須要一張一張去做確認然後今晚會為了保障強制執行的債務人得以維持基本的保險的保障同時也期待提供法院第一線強制執行人可以有一個執法的標準才會提出這一次的修法"},{"start":129.682,"end":146.194,"text":"那我就要請問主委你對於這一次的修法你覺得能夠達到原來的預期的信心嗎就是說我們原來這一次修法的目標你覺得通過我們公聽會到目前你看到你的版本還有這麼多委員的建議你覺得有辦法達到您的目標嗎我想齁"},{"start":149.453,"end":166.347,"text":"這個修法如果能通過一定能夠產生非常顯著的效果但是是否能夠完全解決問題那當然不太可能那麼多的樣態但是我們可以看到如果真的比如說我們講最簡單先把健康傷害把它排除我想就大部分的 健康跟傷害險"},{"start":168.689,"end":182.156,"text":"把它排除再來就是我們訂了一個合理的門檻值維持了基本的保障以後又可以大量排除一些現在在進行中的這些的保單那我想再來因為有了這個"},{"start":184.088,"end":209.746,"text":"那個法案以後大家知道未來某些保險的話它很有可能會成為這個未來強制執行的時候呢它某程度也會減少未來的可能的程度我想這個都是我們修法積極但是修法確實是剛剛有委員說你是贊成反對其實應該講比較精準應該是有條件如果個人是有條件的否定說確實我們有些情況完全支持肯定跟否定也不夠實際"},{"start":212.208,"end":227.115,"text":"那我的意思是說 確實有些狀況 比如剛剛有提到有人主張 比如說小中老保險有他的社會政策性有人又主張一些比較特殊的狀況 比如說弱勢的這些狀況這個都可以透過未來在我們在修法的調整過程當中尋求共識"},{"start":228.496,"end":249.097,"text":"主委這個就是我要強調未來在修法我們已經在修法為什麼不可以一次到位這是我談到就是說不符合豁免標準的其他各項保險契約的解約的債權現在強制執行法相關規定予以執行那我們修法的用意到底是什麼修法其實"},{"start":249.858,"end":264.109,"text":"不能只是自掃門前雪我們希望把不好把強制執行法沒有考量到的或者是我們怎麼樣把這兩個法我覺得我們思考的更完整或不足的地方我們兩邊把它匯成一次到位那"},{"start":265.47,"end":293.504,"text":"無論是保險法豁免的執行還有包括目前的強制執行規定其實有不同的地方就是說沒有考量到我覺得唯一沒有還有一點沒有考量的就是說在強制執行法裡面其實有考量到共同的生活親屬譬如說撫養的親屬父母還有未成年子女我們一併其實要放在豁免的對象裡面那我們的保險草案裡面就沒有這件事情就沒有考量到"},{"start":295.065,"end":310.896,"text":"這個是我在基層有時候沒有我知道就是說這個委員上次溝通的時候也有提到這個概念就是說其實我們現在是做一個特別的立法從保險的角度來看主委對不起你的聲音可不可以麥克風拉近一點對不起不好意思我把聲音開大一點"},{"start":312.73,"end":341.258,"text":"我想說我剛才提過了就是說實際上有關這個需不要考量像比如強制執行考慮到共同生活的家屬這部分一開始的時候我們是有這樣想的不過我們剛才講過保單畢竟不是一個我們一般的財產而且隨著我們年紀變大其實我們應該買很多很多的保單再來就是說這個保單還要考慮到每一張的保單還要總和還要考慮到多少的這個親屬會增加非常高的成本"},{"start":342.518,"end":364.148,"text":"可是主委強制執行法他們就有在做這件事情那個是他們在做的所以剛委員也提到說我們有沒有疊床架我們希望我們保險有些家庭他一輩子他可能就只有能力買一張這樣子的保單他只有能力買這樣你剛提到我們可能有很多的保單那或許是你所認識或您個人"},{"start":365.689,"end":382.662,"text":"有這麼多的保單但是很多人一家一家這一輩子他就只有買了一張這樣子的保單如果我們有考量的更完整的話那就可以馬上照顧他未成年的子女或他真的有什麼狀況他還可以就說我父母至少每個月還有一個我撫養的父母還有一個"},{"start":384.023,"end":405.522,"text":"最基本的生活依賴對 像比如說我們這次的修法我們也仔細思考過這個問題我們也打破了過去說總和的概念我知道 這個是我覺得我支持的地方對 我們有各保單再來就是說如果每一個都要考量你這個共同生活其實這樣這又是一種判準的社會成本所以我們把那個額度呢用這個方式來解決這個問題其實這樣我覺得這是我們從保險的特別的考量我們也沒有跟隨我們強制執行的概念在進行主委"},{"start":411.207,"end":433.801,"text":"主委我還是要強調就是說我覺得我支持的是額度的豁免的計算我覺得這是一個進步的修法但我仍舊有一個失望因為我聽到的就是在豁免對象的部分你只有債務本人沒有考量他需要父母的上上下下 這可以在額度上面做一些調整會更容易達到這個效果而且可以更簡正便民"},{"start":435.366,"end":457.086,"text":"這個未來看看你們後面再怎麼去做後續的處理我覺得這一點沒有做到我覺得是可惜就是我認為為德不足的地方所以我覺得在這一塊當中如果我們修法我們沒有辦法去紓解執行法院的壓力也不能照顧到弱勢的債務人家庭那我覺得這個修法我覺得"},{"start":458.007,"end":476.097,"text":"就不夠完整我會覺得非常的可惜因為我時間剩下不多我再問另外一個TISA的部分個人儲蓄帳戶的部分也是一直一路以來我非常關心的個人儲蓄帳戶的部分有租稅的優惠上次我跟您提過您提到說會在今年上路什麼時候要上路"},{"start":476.637,"end":495.629,"text":"有關那個我們分兩階段第一個第一階段就是說我們請吉保還有各個這個我們的經過讓利的部分我們已經規劃完畢六月會六月要上路那您覺得上路之後有沒有足夠的誘因讓所有還沒加入的民眾有足夠的誘因可以加入當然誘因每個人的看法不一樣"},{"start":496.429,"end":515.022,"text":"因為我目前看到的誘因你在第二階段只有要在第二階段才會爭取財政部的租稅優惠從目前我聽到或從媒體上看到你們就是把目前有的優惠就是加在一起這是第一階段第一階段那如果第一階段你預估第一階段應該目前應該可以達到什麼樣的成效"},{"start":518.024,"end":539.504,"text":"你每一個政策出來我們就要有一個評估值你會達到什麼樣的成效如果家人不夠多或規模不夠大那我覺得這個TISA就沒有達到你預期的政策的效果嘛所以我才會提的我一直問你說誘因在哪裡你沒有足夠的誘因第一階段達不到我們就根本不用去討論到第二階段啦"},{"start":541.668,"end":557.84,"text":"這個跟委員報告就是第一階段是我們能做的我們就已經趕快盡快來做第二階段我想這個難度我想這個委員也非常清楚我想就是主要租稅的優惠要有社會共識所以這部分我們在持續努力中"},{"start":558.74,"end":575.035,"text":"社會共識本來就是公部門要持續去溝通要有足夠的誘因那這可能不是你一個單位不是金管會可以包括財政部來配合我們跟財政部也非常非常密切的溝通你跟他溝通那他有答應你說要後面的租稅優惠要達到這個是賴政府卓院長的重要目標在財務會重要的目標政策"},{"start":582.301,"end":599.948,"text":"租稅的專業在他們但是我們政策的部分呢我們還在真的要在比這做周詳的溝通那我想說一有結果我們會兩方會跟大家做報告主委那我還是要問就是說你的你未來第一階段用戶數跟資金規模的指標你的最低你會不會設最低門檻"},{"start":601.807,"end":629.282,"text":"那你預估6月份要上線那你有沒有思考到多少人或多少金額你要達到預期目標是什麼對你的同仁應該有一個要求吧這我們最近因為我們制度剛建制完畢還有就等於說它裡面的一些的內容物還要請我們再跟業者來協商這協商完畢我們就會訂出這樣的一個預期目標這樣子 主委我支持TESA我覺得這個是對國家來說是很重要對一個人"},{"start":630.422,"end":657.485,"text":"打拼了一輩子然後有一個長期穩定的儲蓄章很重要所以我一直在提誘因我希望你這個政策可以成功它是要怕部會的結合所以我認真認為我希望看到一個完整的報告你第一階段應該有多少資金規模你預估有多少人我後面才能再追說人不夠是因為你誘因不足那你財政部就要多支持租稅優惠我就幫你要求財政部支持所以我希望看到一個完整的報告好不好"},{"start":657.705,"end":659.408,"text":"可以 可以 謝謝沒問題 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝委員 謝謝主委接下來請代委員會員質詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":370,"blocks":[["李委員彥秀：（10時8分）謝謝召委，我可不可以請主委？"],["主席：請主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["李委員彥秀：謝謝主委。因為上一次的公聽會你沒有來，是副主委在現場，對於這一次金管會提出的修正草案，我仍舊要表達一個支持，但是我也有一個失望，修法增訂介入權在第一百二十三條之二當中，我們很完整地讓符合一定條件的債務人親屬，在債務人清償債務之後可以承接原來有的保險契約，事實上，這樣的作法也是兼顧債務人與債權人的權益，清償完之後，他的親屬還可以承接原來有的保險契約。但是對於豁免執行的規定，我在上一次的公聽會也有表達我跟很多學者專家的主張是一樣的，我認為我們的修法仍舊有許多為德不卒，甚至在修法過程當中，因為我們現在也有強制執行法，是不是有疊床架屋的狀況？我上次已經表達過，我覺得我們越晚修法應該會思考得越純熟，如果還有地方沒有再把它補上去，我會覺得非常的可惜。畢竟一個法要完成修法要經過這麼多次的公聽會，這麼多的討論，才有辦法通過行政院院會，才有辦法送進來。所以我待會提到的一個失望的部分，我還是希望主委後續如果在法的部分可以加強，我們再來做後續的處理。","回顧這次修法的背景，最高法院在111年12月作出裁定允許保單可以抵債務之後，這類的強制執行造成法院很多書記官的負荷，因為很多人保單非常非常的多，他必須要一張一張去做確認。金管會為了保障強制執行的債務人得以維持基本的保險保障，同時也期待提供法院第一線強制執行人員可以有一個執法的標準，才會提出這一次的修法。請問主委，對於這一次的修法，你覺得能夠達到原來預期的信心嗎？原來這一次修法的目標，你覺得通過公聽會到目前看到你們的版本，還有這麼多委員的建議，你覺得有辦法達到你的目標嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想修法如果能夠通過，一定能夠產生非常顯著的效果，但是是否能夠完全解決問題，當然不太可能，因為有那麼多的樣態。但是我們可以看到，比如，我們講最簡單的，先把健康傷害排除，大部分的險種……"],["李委員彥秀：把什麼排除？"],["彭主任委員金隆：健康和傷害險，把它排除，再來……"],["李委員彥秀：因為有一些是附約。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們訂了一個合理的門檻值，維持基本保障以後，又可以大量排除一些現在在進行中的這些保單，再來，因為有了這個法案以後，大家就知道未來某些保險很有可能會成為未來強制執行的時候，某種程度也會減少未來可能的程度，我想這都是我們修法積極。但是修法確實是……剛才有委員問我是贊成、反對，其實講得比較精準應該是有條件，我個人認為是有條件的否定說，確實，有些情況完全支持肯定或否定也不夠實際，我的意思是確實有些狀況，比如剛才有人主張小額終老保險有其社會政策性，有人又主張一些比較特殊的狀況，比如弱勢的這些狀況，這個都可以透過未來我們在修法的調整過程當中尋求共識。"],["李委員彥秀：主委，這個就是我要強調的，未來在修法，我們已經在修法了，為什麼不可以一次到位？這個是我要談到的，不符合豁免標準的其他各項保險契約的解約債權，現在依強制執行法的相關規定會予以執行，我們修法的用意到底是什麼？修法其實不能只是自掃門前雪，我們希望包括把強制執行法沒有考量到的，或者是我們怎麼樣把這兩個法思考得更完整，或是針對不足的地方，我們把兩邊彙整，一次到位。無論是保險法豁免的執行，以及目前的強制執行規定，其實有不同的地方，我覺得唯一還有一點沒有考量到的就是，在強制執行法裡面有考量到共同生活親屬，比如扶養親屬、父母還有未成年子女，我們要一併放在豁免對象裡面，但是我們的保險法草案裡面就沒有這件事情，沒有考量到。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，這主要是我們……"],["李委員彥秀：我在基層有時候……"],["彭主任委員金隆：我知道，委員上次溝通的時候也有提到這個概念，實際上，我們現在是做一個特別的立法，從保險的角度來看……"],["李委員彥秀：主委，對不起，你的麥克風可不可拿近一點、拉近一點？對不起！"],["彭主任委員金隆：不好意思，我把聲音開大一點，我剛才提過了，實際上有關於強制執行需不需要考慮到共同生活的家屬，這部分一開始的時候，我們是有這樣想的，不過我們剛才講過，保單畢竟不是一個一般的財產，而且隨著我們年紀變大，其實我們應該買了很多很多的保單。再來，這個保單還要考慮到，每一張的保單還要總和、還要考慮到多少親屬，會增加非常高的成本，所以我的意思是希望……"],["李委員彥秀：可是主委，我們強制執行法就有在做這件事情。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，那個是他們在做的，所以剛才委員也提到我們有沒有疊床架屋，我們希望保險是針對……"],["李委員彥秀：主委，有些家庭一輩子可能就只有能力買一張這樣子的保單，你剛剛提到我們可能有很多的保單，或許是你所認識的或你個人有這麼多的保單，但是很多人一家這一輩子就只有買了一張這樣子的保單，如果我們有考量得更完整的話，就可以馬上照顧他未成年的子女，或他真的有什麼狀況，還可以想說父母至少每個月在我撫養的部分還有一個最基本的生活依賴……"],["彭主任委員金隆：對啊！所以跟委員報告一下，像我們這次的修法，我們也仔細思考過這個問題，我們也打破了過去總和的概念，所以……"],["李委員彥秀：我知道，這個是我支持的地方。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，我們就各保單。再來，如果每一個都要考量共同生活，其實這又是一種判準的社會成本，所以我們把那個額度用這個方式來解決這個問題，我覺得這是我們從保險的特別的考量，我們也沒有跟隨強制執行的概念在進行。"],["李委員彥秀：主委，我還是要強調，我支持的是額度豁免計算，我覺得這是一個進步的修法，但我仍舊有一個失望，因為我聽到的就是在豁免對象的部分，你只有債務本人，沒有考量到他需要扶養的上上下下、老老小小。"],["彭主任委員金隆：這可以在額度上面做一些調整，會更容易達到這個效果，而且可以更簡政便民。"],["李委員彥秀：未來您後面再看看怎麼去做後續的處理，這一點沒有做到，我覺得是可惜，我認為是為德不卒的地方，所以我覺得在這一塊當中，如果我們修法沒有辦法去紓解執行法院的壓力，也不能照顧到弱勢的債務人家庭，我覺得這個修法就不夠完整，我會覺得非常地可惜。","因為我時間剩下不多，我就問另外一個TISA的部分，個人儲蓄帳戶的部分也是一路以來我非常關心的，個人儲蓄帳戶的部分有租稅的優惠，上次我跟您提過，您提到會在今年上路，什麼時候要上路？"],["彭主任委員金隆：有關那部分，我們分兩階段，第一階段，請集保還有各個金融機構讓利的部分，我們已經規劃完畢，6月會上線。"],["李委員彥秀：6月要上路。您覺得上路之後，有沒有足夠的誘因讓所有還沒加入的民眾，有足夠的誘因可以加入？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然誘因每個人的看法不一樣……"],["李委員彥秀：因為我目前看到的誘因，在第二階段才會爭取財政部的租稅優惠，從目前我聽到或從媒體上看到的，你們就是把目前有的優惠加在一起。"],["彭主任委員金隆：這是第一階段。"],["李委員彥秀：第一階段嘛？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對、對。"],["李委員彥秀：如果是第一階段，目前你預估第一階段應該可以達到什麼樣的成效？每一個政策出來，你們就要有一個評估值，你會達到什麼樣的成效？"],["彭主任委員金隆：第一個，我想這個我們……"],["李委員彥秀：如果加入的人不夠多或規模不夠大，我覺得TISA就沒有達到你預期的政策效果。"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然！就是我想……"],["李委員彥秀：我一直問你誘因在哪、誘因在哪裡，你沒有足夠的誘因，假如第一階段達不到，我們就根本不用去討論到第二階段啦！"],["彭主任委員金隆：跟委員報告，第一階段是我們能做的，我們已經儘快來做；第二階段的難度，我想委員也非常清楚，主要是租稅的優惠要有社會共識，所以這部分我們在持續努力中，對不對？"],["李委員彥秀：社會共識本來就是公部門要持續去溝通，要有足夠的誘因……"],["彭主任委員金隆：對！我們從來沒有停止過。"],["李委員彥秀：這可能不是你一個單位、不是金管會可以處理，包括財政部來配合。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對、對！我們跟財政部也非常非常密切地溝通這部分……"],["李委員彥秀：你跟他溝通，他有答應你後面的租稅優惠要達到……這個是賴政府、卓院長在財委會重要的目標政策。"],["彭主任委員金隆：租稅的專業在他們，但是政策的部分，我們真的要再做比較周詳地溝通，我想一有結果，兩方會跟大家做報告。"],["李委員彥秀：主委，我還是要問，未來第一階段的用戶數跟資金規模的指標，你會不會設最低門檻？"],["彭主任委員金隆：你是指加入TISA……"],["李委員彥秀：你預估6月份要上線，有沒有思考到多少人或多少金額，你要達到預期目標是什麼？對你的同仁應該有一個要求吧？"],["彭主任委員金隆：因為我們最近制度剛建置完畢，等於說裡面的一些內容物還需要我們跟這些業者來協商，等協商完畢，我們就會訂出預期的目標。"],["李委員彥秀：主委，我支持TISA，我覺得這個對國家來說是很重要……"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝、謝謝。"],["李委員彥秀：一個人打拼了一輩子，有一個長期穩定的儲蓄帳務是很重要的，所以我一直在提誘因，我也希望這個政策可以成功……"],["彭主任委員金隆：是的！我們也是這樣認為。會！我們持續爭取。"],["李委員彥秀：它需要跨部會的結合，所以我仍舊如此認為，我希望看到一份完整的報告，第一階段應該有多少資金規模，預估有多少人，我後面才能再追說人不夠是因為你誘因不足，財政部就要多支持租稅優惠，我就會幫你要求財政部支持……"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員提的這個建議。"],["李委員彥秀：所以我希望看到一份完整的報告，好不好？謝謝。"],["彭主任委員金隆：可以、可以。沒問題，謝謝委員。"],["主席（鍾委員佳濱代）：謝謝委員，謝謝主委。","接下來請賴委員惠員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-10","speakers":["賴惠員","黃珊珊","羅智強","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李彥秀","鍾佳濱","顏寬恒","羅明才","李坤城","黃國昌","陳玉珍","王世堅","林思銘","羅廷瑋","陳培瑜","徐富癸","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2025-04-30"],"gazette_id":"1144301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144301_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查「保險法」15案：一、行政院函請審議、本院委員蔡其昌等19人、委員羅廷瑋等16人、委員\n王世堅等18人、委員徐富癸等16人、委員蔡其昌等19人、委員蔡易餘等18人、委員林思銘等18人\n分別擬具「保險法部分條文修正草案」等8案；二、本院委員鍾佳濱等21人擬具「保險法增訂第\n一百二十三條之一條文草案」案；三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員陳超明等16人、委員羅智強等\n19人、委員李坤城等23人、委員賴瑞隆等17人、委員王美惠等17人分別擬具「保險法增訂第一百\n七十四條之二及第一百七十四條之三條文草案」等6案","agenda_id":"1144301_00006"}}}