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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,349 --> 00:00:10,782\n聽委委員質詢好謝召委有請院長請院長備質詢謝謝委員長\n\n2\n00:00:18,510 --> 00:00:41,878\n好院長我們去年113年的時候有跟你提到故宮國寶出遊台中還記得嗎有那這個規劃當時你答應我會去研議那我也講了很多次喔並在兩週後回覆我具體的一個展覽內容跟策劃的一個方向但是我好像還沒有收到這樣子的一個回覆欸那這是我第三次的跟您請問公文報告就是我\n\n3\n00:00:44,340 --> 00:01:04,278\n隔一個禮拜的話我就跟國美館的館長見面看了到故宮然後我們也談了兩次那因為對於展覽的內容的話就是國美館他們有不同的一個策展的方向因為故宮國寶出遊區的話是整場包裝然後過去那國美館的話他們也去看了大美不遠\n\n4\n00:01:04,938 --> 00:01:29,474\n他們是希望說故宮的文物跟國美館典藏的文物用一種對話的方式來展出所以這樣的一個展覽的話他們希望說有一個比較長的時間去做規劃不是說就是故宮國寶出遊區那一批就整個過去不單單只是把國寶搬去而已對就是他們的一個建議是希望用對話的方式去做一個展覽\n\n5\n00:01:32,046 --> 00:01:57,112\n國美館的話他有林義山連詞的國寶內建文物他們希望說他們典藏的文物跟故宮的文物同時展出跟大美不一樣就是不同的文物一起展出我覺得利益良善嘛當然我們支持嘛但是這個部分上我們尊重專業但是也拜託盡可能的幫我們加速這個部分可不可以再麻煩你幫我們多溝通好可以嗎\n\n6\n00:01:58,112 --> 00:02:25,441\n好謝謝你那另外我想問一下喔4月17日我們有去做這個嘉義的南院考察雖然我沒有去喔但是我有派助理那這個助理呢他回來以後有跟我分享當時啊陸庫示範RFID的文物提件的一個時候啊有一些現場的狀況我想今天其他的委員應該也有提到我就不細談了但主要是文物的推車內的一個文物取出一件以後再推回庫房\n\n7\n00:02:26,301 --> 00:02:49,897\n結果警報是不會響的那後來仔細的去了解你們回覆是說因為文物推車它的是金屬材質RFID無法穿透因此文物進出僅以推車上RFID的標籤作為識別無法及時掌握推車內個別文物的一個數量跟這個品項的一個變化我們關心的是文物\n\n8\n00:02:50,785 --> 00:03:18,468\n那若在搬運入庫出庫過程中如果文物遺失或者是調換這個現行的系統並沒有辦法馬上的察覺這個是非常嚴重的一個狀況那我想問一下因為搬運大多數都是國家級的寶物我們真的不希望花這麼多的經費結果文物完全還是呈現在這樣子的一個狀況之下請問院長目前故宮針對這樣的問題有沒有檢討並提出改善的方案\n\n9\n00:03:21,163 --> 00:03:39,814\n因為這個問題是我那天故意把這個bug就呈現給委員那因為我有請同仁去針對那個不鏽鋼的金屬推車去做改造可是現在的問題的話不見得是完全是因為推車的關係而是說\n\n10\n00:03:40,794 --> 00:04:10,294\n各別的紋路跟推車都可以被掃描確認但是整批的批次的紋路堆在一起的時候基本上來講的話技術上還是有一點點困擾所以我們說是不是還有其他的一個方案投入這樣的經費所以這個部分的話就是我們會找廠商來處理因為RFID的話當初我在國立台灣美術館之後在推的時候那時候比較簡單因為它都是畫作\n\n11\n00:04:11,054 --> 00:04:40,118\n他畫作的話每個畫作的尺寸size所以他比較容易去處理但是故宮的國寶不一定都是故宮的紋路基本上來講的話除了紋路本身之外的話我們大小不宜小的比較多然後另外的話放在錦盒裡面所以我們沒有辦法把RFID的這些識別標籤直接貼在紋路上面所以他就會放在那個放在那個盒子上面\n\n12\n00:04:40,858 --> 00:04:56,105\n因為畫的話基本上來講可以貼在畫框或是畫的某一個邊緣背後不會影響到文物但是以故宮來講的話比較不容易把標籤直接貼在文物上面\n\n13\n00:04:56,525 --> 00:05:12,186\n好我們能夠體諒啦但是我要講的是說這件事情我們有注意到我們更希望之後有一個具體的一個檢討方案能夠讓這個部分能夠更完善我想文物的一個運輸過程當中應該也有很反覆的一個流程\n\n14\n00:05:12,546 --> 00:05:38,969\n那請問一下翠玉白菜在運送的途中有沒有裝設溫度濕度震動的相關的一個監控設備運送的車輛有沒有做到即時的監控我為什麼會這樣子問是因為我們最近啊這個翠玉白菜它有所謂的要這個出借嘛我們要到這個捷克做展覽對不對那整體的這個過程當中我先跟你請問我們有沒有投保全額保險\n\n15\n00:05:41,236 --> 00:06:01,112\n全額保險沒有問題,絕對是多圖多,窩圖窩,對那保險的金額是怎麼訂定?保險金額,庫公從來都沒有對外有你們訂,還是第三方專業估價?我們自己有內帳,但是從來都沒有對外公佈好,沒關係,這是機密嗎?\n\n16\n00:06:03,324 --> 00:06:19,374\n好是機密那就不用講沒關係機密不要說喔但是就是由你們來訂定不是由第三方嘛對不對對我們訂定好OKOK但是我剛剛回到來問喔這個運送的過程有全額保險但是這個繁複的過程有沒有裝設溫度濕度震動的相關監控設備運送的車輛有沒有做到即時監控\n\n17\n00:06:26,706 --> 00:06:49,963\n那個基本上來講的話故宮的文物出去的話都是一定是國際化的標準作業橫紅絲氣墊貨櫃所以包括它的內廂外廂的話都有一定的作業程序在處理就我所知道到捷克的國家博物館當然展覽的環境一定會有控文控詩放到這個部分但是我在意的是運送的啦所以運送的部分你說也有依照\n\n18\n00:06:50,883 --> 00:07:10,943\n國際的這個標準我們故宮的東西只要出故宮博物院的話就會有全程的介護就是台北的話台北市警察局國道警察局然後包括那個海關哪裡都一定要有專案的介護所以我們過去一直都跟那個警政署做合作\n\n19\n00:07:11,823 --> 00:07:39,384\n因為這個部分上我們大家都知道這不是一般的展覽品這國寶出去都要做一個細節最高的標準去看待所以我想最後我要強調是翠玉白菜這部分這個象徵性它能夠去到捷克來做展覽讓世人能夠看到我們當然是非常的開心但是故宮肩負的不只是展覽成功的壓力更是確保文物能夠出得去\n\n20\n00:07:40,405 --> 00:08:07,182\n展的好並且平安回來每一個細節都要做到滴水不漏也要麻煩故宮這部分要多加以我想故宮所有同仁的話都是秉持這樣的理念來處理事情那不好意思因為剛剛真的是聊到這一題突然跳到這個捷克展覽但是我還是要回過頭來再跟您請問一下我們現在目前我們這個RFID導入的一個試行方式目前是北院先試行嗎\n\n21\n00:08:08,876 --> 00:08:20,805\n目前北院先試行然後南院的話是七氣庫房現在也在進行所以有沒有打算推動的時間表做到全面普及還是你覺得有困難因為目前的表現並不是這麼好\n\n22\n00:08:22,847 --> 00:08:44,964\n基本上來講的話這個推動的話就持續會推動然後會慢慢修正那他整個工作的話可能要到那個北宴的所有的庫房都建制完成所以才會完成所以基本上來講的話我們會逐步推動但是所謂完成的這個部分的話因為持續都會精進都會修正\n\n23\n00:08:45,560 --> 00:09:00,045\n我想北院聚集的是全國最珍貴的一個國寶搬運入庫出庫過程中發現如果如果有這樣子的文物遺失錯誌或者是調換都會作為一個非常嚴重的一個錯誤不容小覷所以在這樣的前提之下院長\n\n24\n00:09:00,825 --> 00:09:16,930\n我覺得針對南北院的IFID的一個系統設置缺陷管理風險是否有系統性的檢討跟補強的一個計畫如果有那我希望你們如果完成以後相關的計畫應該要讓我們知道一下那如果沒有是否能夠提出具體的一個改善跟做法\n\n25\n00:09:17,518 --> 00:09:40,559\n是跟我們報告就是說以目前來講的話故宮不會全部仰賴科技就是說科技只是協助做登錄做辨識的一個工程可以認同但是一定要有人親自去處理所以每一個過程的話最後都還是經過數位掃描之後都還要有人為的辨識這是故宮比較繁複的一個地方\n\n26\n00:09:40,959 --> 00:09:58,647\n好我覺得這個部分當然是要自助啦但是要機器輔導基本上我覺得是也是有機會能夠加強因為畢竟這麼大量的一些文物那這個部分上我還是希望說能夠把這個系統做到最好這個部分再提醒你謝謝好謝謝委員好\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n349\t10782\t聽委委員質詢好 謝召委 有請院長請院長備質詢 謝謝委員長\n18510\t41878\t好 院長我們去年113年的時候有跟你提到故宮國寶出遊台中還記得嗎有那這個規劃當時你答應我會去研議那我也講了很多次喔並在兩週後回覆我具體的一個展覽內容跟策劃的一個方向但是我好像還沒有收到這樣子的一個回覆欸那這是我第三次的跟您請問公文報告就是我\n44340\t64278\t隔一個禮拜的話我就跟國美館的館長見面 看了到故宮然後我們也談了兩次那因為對於展覽的內容的話就是國美館他們有不同的一個策展的方向因為故宮國寶出遊區的話是整場包裝然後過去那國美館的話他們也去看了大美不遠\n64938\t89474\t他們是希望說故宮的文物跟國美館典藏的文物用一種對話的方式來展出所以這樣的一個展覽的話他們希望說有一個比較長的時間去做規劃不是說就是故宮國寶出遊區那一批就整個過去不單單只是把國寶搬去而已對就是他們的一個建議是希望用對話的方式去做一個展覽\n92046\t117112\t國美館的話他有林義山連詞的國寶內建文物他們希望說他們典藏的文物跟故宮的文物同時展出跟大美不一樣就是不同的文物一起展出我覺得利益良善嘛當然我們支持嘛但是這個部分上我們尊重專業但是也拜託盡可能的幫我們加速這個部分可不可以再麻煩你幫我們多溝通好可以嗎\n118112\t145441\t好謝謝你那另外我想問一下喔4月17日我們有去做這個嘉義的南院考察雖然我沒有去喔但是我有派助理那這個助理呢他回來以後有跟我分享當時啊陸庫示範RFID的文物提件的一個時候啊有一些現場的狀況我想今天其他的委員應該也有提到我就不細談了但主要是文物的推車內的一個文物取出一件以後再推回庫房\n146301\t169897\t結果警報是不會響的那後來仔細的去了解你們回覆是說因為文物推車它的是金屬材質RFID無法穿透因此文物進出僅以推車上RFID的標籤作為識別無法及時掌握推車內個別文物的一個數量跟這個品項的一個變化我們關心的是文物\n170785\t198468\t那若在搬運入庫出庫過程中如果文物遺失或者是調換這個現行的系統並沒有辦法馬上的察覺這個是非常嚴重的一個狀況那我想問一下因為搬運大多數都是國家級的寶物我們真的不希望花這麼多的經費結果文物完全還是呈現在這樣子的一個狀況之下請問院長目前故宮針對這樣的問題有沒有檢討並提出改善的方案\n201163\t219814\t因為這個問題是我那天故意把這個bug就呈現給委員那因為我有請同仁去針對那個不鏽鋼的金屬推車去做改造可是現在的問題的話不見得是完全是因為推車的關係而是說\n220794\t250294\t各別的紋路跟推車都可以被掃描確認但是整批的批次的紋路堆在一起的時候基本上來講的話技術上還是有一點點困擾所以我們說是不是還有其他的一個方案投入這樣的經費所以這個部分的話就是我們會找廠商來處理因為RFID的話當初我在國立台灣美術館之後在推的時候那時候比較簡單因為它都是畫作\n251054\t280118\t他畫作的話每個畫作的尺寸size所以他比較容易去處理但是故宮的國寶不一定都是故宮的紋路基本上來講的話除了紋路本身之外的話我們大小不宜小的比較多然後另外的話放在錦盒裡面所以我們沒有辦法把RFID的這些識別標籤直接貼在紋路上面所以他就會放在那個放在那個盒子上面\n280858\t296105\t因為畫的話基本上來講可以貼在畫框或是畫的某一個邊緣背後不會影響到文物但是以故宮來講的話比較不容易把標籤直接貼在文物上面\n296525\t312186\t好 我們能夠體諒啦但是我要講的是說這件事情我們有注意到我們更希望之後有一個具體的一個檢討方案能夠讓這個部分能夠更完善我想文物的一個運輸過程當中應該也有很反覆的一個流程\n312546\t338969\t那請問一下翠玉白菜在運送的途中有沒有裝設溫度濕度震動的相關的一個監控設備運送的車輛有沒有做到即時的監控我為什麼會這樣子問是因為我們最近啊這個翠玉白菜它有所謂的要這個出借嘛我們要到這個捷克做展覽對不對那整體的這個過程當中我先跟你請問我們有沒有投保全額保險\n341236\t361112\t全額保險沒有問題,絕對是多圖多,窩圖窩,對那保險的金額是怎麼訂定?保險金額,庫公從來都沒有對外有你們訂,還是第三方專業估價?我們自己有內帳,但是從來都沒有對外公佈好,沒關係,這是機密嗎?\n363324\t379374\t好 是機密那就不用講 沒關係 機密不要說喔但是就是由你們來訂定 不是由第三方嘛 對不對對 我們訂定 好 OK OK但是我剛剛回到來問喔 這個運送的過程有全額保險但是這個繁複的過程有沒有裝設溫度 濕度 震動的相關監控設備運送的車輛有沒有做到即時監控\n386706\t409963\t那個基本上來講的話故宮的文物出去的話都是一定是國際化的標準作業橫紅絲氣墊貨櫃所以包括它的內廂外廂的話都有一定的作業程序在處理就我所知道到捷克的國家博物館當然展覽的環境一定會有控文控詩放到這個部分但是我在意的是運送的啦所以運送的部分你說也有依照\n410883\t430943\t國際的這個標準我們故宮的東西只要出故宮博物院的話就會有全程的介護就是台北的話台北市警察局國道警察局然後包括那個海關哪裡都一定要有專案的介護所以我們過去一直都跟那個警政署做合作\n431823\t459384\t因為這個部分上我們大家都知道這不是一般的展覽品這國寶出去都要做一個細節最高的標準去看待所以我想最後我要強調是翠玉白菜這部分這個象徵性它能夠去到捷克來做展覽讓世人能夠看到我們當然是非常的開心但是故宮肩負的不只是展覽成功的壓力更是確保文物能夠出得去\n460405\t487182\t展的好並且平安回來每一個細節都要做到滴水不漏也要麻煩故宮這部分要多加以我想故宮所有同仁的話都是秉持這樣的理念來處理事情那不好意思因為剛剛真的是聊到這一題突然跳到這個捷克展覽但是我還是要回過頭來再跟您請問一下我們現在目前我們這個RFID導入的一個試行方式目前是北院先試行嗎\n488876\t500805\t目前北院先試行然後南院的話是七氣庫房現在也在進行所以有沒有打算推動的時間表做到全面普及還是你覺得有困難因為目前的表現並不是這麼好\n502847\t524964\t基本上來講的話這個推動的話就持續會推動然後會慢慢修正那他整個工作的話可能要到那個北宴的所有的庫房都建制完成所以才會完成所以基本上來講的話我們會逐步推動但是所謂完成的這個部分的話因為持續都會精進都會修正\n525560\t540045\t我想北院聚集的是全國最珍貴的一個國寶搬運入庫出庫過程中發現如果如果有這樣子的文物遺失錯誌或者是調換都會作為一個非常嚴重的一個錯誤不容小覷所以在這樣的前提之下院長\n540825\t556930\t我覺得針對南北院的IFID的一個系統設置缺陷管理風險是否有系統性的檢討跟補強的一個計畫如果有那我希望你們如果完成以後相關的計畫應該要讓我們知道一下那如果沒有是否能夠提出具體的一個改善跟做法\n557518\t580559\t是跟我們報告就是說以目前來講的話故宮不會全部仰賴科技就是說科技只是協助做登錄做辨識的一個工程可以認同但是一定要有人親自去處理所以每一個過程的話最後都還是經過數位掃描之後都還要有人為的辨識這是故宮比較繁複的一個地方\n580959\t598647\t好我覺得這個部分當然是要自助啦但是要機器輔導基本上我覺得是也是有機會能夠加強因為畢竟這麼大量的一些文物那這個部分上我還是希望說能夠把這個系統做到最好這個部分再提醒你謝謝好謝謝委員好\n","txt":"聽委委員質詢好 謝召委 有請院長請院長備質詢 謝謝委員長\n好 院長我們去年113年的時候有跟你提到故宮國寶出遊台中還記得嗎有那這個規劃當時你答應我會去研議那我也講了很多次喔並在兩週後回覆我具體的一個展覽內容跟策劃的一個方向但是我好像還沒有收到這樣子的一個回覆欸那這是我第三次的跟您請問公文報告就是我\n隔一個禮拜的話我就跟國美館的館長見面 看了到故宮然後我們也談了兩次那因為對於展覽的內容的話就是國美館他們有不同的一個策展的方向因為故宮國寶出遊區的話是整場包裝然後過去那國美館的話他們也去看了大美不遠\n他們是希望說故宮的文物跟國美館典藏的文物用一種對話的方式來展出所以這樣的一個展覽的話他們希望說有一個比較長的時間去做規劃不是說就是故宮國寶出遊區那一批就整個過去不單單只是把國寶搬去而已對就是他們的一個建議是希望用對話的方式去做一個展覽\n國美館的話他有林義山連詞的國寶內建文物他們希望說他們典藏的文物跟故宮的文物同時展出跟大美不一樣就是不同的文物一起展出我覺得利益良善嘛當然我們支持嘛但是這個部分上我們尊重專業但是也拜託盡可能的幫我們加速這個部分可不可以再麻煩你幫我們多溝通好可以嗎\n好謝謝你那另外我想問一下喔4月17日我們有去做這個嘉義的南院考察雖然我沒有去喔但是我有派助理那這個助理呢他回來以後有跟我分享當時啊陸庫示範RFID的文物提件的一個時候啊有一些現場的狀況我想今天其他的委員應該也有提到我就不細談了但主要是文物的推車內的一個文物取出一件以後再推回庫房\n結果警報是不會響的那後來仔細的去了解你們回覆是說因為文物推車它的是金屬材質RFID無法穿透因此文物進出僅以推車上RFID的標籤作為識別無法及時掌握推車內個別文物的一個數量跟這個品項的一個變化我們關心的是文物\n那若在搬運入庫出庫過程中如果文物遺失或者是調換這個現行的系統並沒有辦法馬上的察覺這個是非常嚴重的一個狀況那我想問一下因為搬運大多數都是國家級的寶物我們真的不希望花這麼多的經費結果文物完全還是呈現在這樣子的一個狀況之下請問院長目前故宮針對這樣的問題有沒有檢討並提出改善的方案\n因為這個問題是我那天故意把這個bug就呈現給委員那因為我有請同仁去針對那個不鏽鋼的金屬推車去做改造可是現在的問題的話不見得是完全是因為推車的關係而是說\n各別的紋路跟推車都可以被掃描確認但是整批的批次的紋路堆在一起的時候基本上來講的話技術上還是有一點點困擾所以我們說是不是還有其他的一個方案投入這樣的經費所以這個部分的話就是我們會找廠商來處理因為RFID的話當初我在國立台灣美術館之後在推的時候那時候比較簡單因為它都是畫作\n他畫作的話每個畫作的尺寸size所以他比較容易去處理但是故宮的國寶不一定都是故宮的紋路基本上來講的話除了紋路本身之外的話我們大小不宜小的比較多然後另外的話放在錦盒裡面所以我們沒有辦法把RFID的這些識別標籤直接貼在紋路上面所以他就會放在那個放在那個盒子上面\n因為畫的話基本上來講可以貼在畫框或是畫的某一個邊緣背後不會影響到文物但是以故宮來講的話比較不容易把標籤直接貼在文物上面\n好 我們能夠體諒啦但是我要講的是說這件事情我們有注意到我們更希望之後有一個具體的一個檢討方案能夠讓這個部分能夠更完善我想文物的一個運輸過程當中應該也有很反覆的一個流程\n那請問一下翠玉白菜在運送的途中有沒有裝設溫度濕度震動的相關的一個監控設備運送的車輛有沒有做到即時的監控我為什麼會這樣子問是因為我們最近啊這個翠玉白菜它有所謂的要這個出借嘛我們要到這個捷克做展覽對不對那整體的這個過程當中我先跟你請問我們有沒有投保全額保險\n全額保險沒有問題,絕對是多圖多,窩圖窩,對那保險的金額是怎麼訂定?保險金額,庫公從來都沒有對外有你們訂,還是第三方專業估價?我們自己有內帳,但是從來都沒有對外公佈好,沒關係,這是機密嗎?\n好 是機密那就不用講 沒關係 機密不要說喔但是就是由你們來訂定 不是由第三方嘛 對不對對 我們訂定 好 OK OK但是我剛剛回到來問喔 這個運送的過程有全額保險但是這個繁複的過程有沒有裝設溫度 濕度 震動的相關監控設備運送的車輛有沒有做到即時監控\n那個基本上來講的話故宮的文物出去的話都是一定是國際化的標準作業橫紅絲氣墊貨櫃所以包括它的內廂外廂的話都有一定的作業程序在處理就我所知道到捷克的國家博物館當然展覽的環境一定會有控文控詩放到這個部分但是我在意的是運送的啦所以運送的部分你說也有依照\n國際的這個標準我們故宮的東西只要出故宮博物院的話就會有全程的介護就是台北的話台北市警察局國道警察局然後包括那個海關哪裡都一定要有專案的介護所以我們過去一直都跟那個警政署做合作\n因為這個部分上我們大家都知道這不是一般的展覽品這國寶出去都要做一個細節最高的標準去看待所以我想最後我要強調是翠玉白菜這部分這個象徵性它能夠去到捷克來做展覽讓世人能夠看到我們當然是非常的開心但是故宮肩負的不只是展覽成功的壓力更是確保文物能夠出得去\n展的好並且平安回來每一個細節都要做到滴水不漏也要麻煩故宮這部分要多加以我想故宮所有同仁的話都是秉持這樣的理念來處理事情那不好意思因為剛剛真的是聊到這一題突然跳到這個捷克展覽但是我還是要回過頭來再跟您請問一下我們現在目前我們這個RFID導入的一個試行方式目前是北院先試行嗎\n目前北院先試行然後南院的話是七氣庫房現在也在進行所以有沒有打算推動的時間表做到全面普及還是你覺得有困難因為目前的表現並不是這麼好\n基本上來講的話這個推動的話就持續會推動然後會慢慢修正那他整個工作的話可能要到那個北宴的所有的庫房都建制完成所以才會完成所以基本上來講的話我們會逐步推動但是所謂完成的這個部分的話因為持續都會精進都會修正\n我想北院聚集的是全國最珍貴的一個國寶搬運入庫出庫過程中發現如果如果有這樣子的文物遺失錯誌或者是調換都會作為一個非常嚴重的一個錯誤不容小覷所以在這樣的前提之下院長\n我覺得針對南北院的IFID的一個系統設置缺陷管理風險是否有系統性的檢討跟補強的一個計畫如果有那我希望你們如果完成以後相關的計畫應該要讓我們知道一下那如果沒有是否能夠提出具體的一個改善跟做法\n是跟我們報告就是說以目前來講的話故宮不會全部仰賴科技就是說科技只是協助做登錄做辨識的一個工程可以認同但是一定要有人親自去處理所以每一個過程的話最後都還是經過數位掃描之後都還要有人為的辨識這是故宮比較繁複的一個地方\n好我覺得這個部分當然是要自助啦但是要機器輔導基本上我覺得是也是有機會能夠加強因為畢竟這麼大量的一些文物那這個部分上我還是希望說能夠把這個系統做到最好這個部分再提醒你謝謝好謝謝委員好\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.349 --> 00:10.782\n聽委委員質詢好謝召委有請院長請院長備質詢謝謝委員長\n\n00:18.510 --> 00:41.878\n好院長我們去年113年的時候有跟你提到故宮國寶出遊台中還記得嗎有那這個規劃當時你答應我會去研議那我也講了很多次喔並在兩週後回覆我具體的一個展覽內容跟策劃的一個方向但是我好像還沒有收到這樣子的一個回覆欸那這是我第三次的跟您請問公文報告就是我\n\n00:44.340 --> 01:04.278\n隔一個禮拜的話我就跟國美館的館長見面看了到故宮然後我們也談了兩次那因為對於展覽的內容的話就是國美館他們有不同的一個策展的方向因為故宮國寶出遊區的話是整場包裝然後過去那國美館的話他們也去看了大美不遠\n\n01:04.938 --> 01:29.474\n他們是希望說故宮的文物跟國美館典藏的文物用一種對話的方式來展出所以這樣的一個展覽的話他們希望說有一個比較長的時間去做規劃不是說就是故宮國寶出遊區那一批就整個過去不單單只是把國寶搬去而已對就是他們的一個建議是希望用對話的方式去做一個展覽\n\n01:32.046 --> 01:57.112\n國美館的話他有林義山連詞的國寶內建文物他們希望說他們典藏的文物跟故宮的文物同時展出跟大美不一樣就是不同的文物一起展出我覺得利益良善嘛當然我們支持嘛但是這個部分上我們尊重專業但是也拜託盡可能的幫我們加速這個部分可不可以再麻煩你幫我們多溝通好可以嗎\n\n01:58.112 --> 02:25.441\n好謝謝你那另外我想問一下喔4月17日我們有去做這個嘉義的南院考察雖然我沒有去喔但是我有派助理那這個助理呢他回來以後有跟我分享當時啊陸庫示範RFID的文物提件的一個時候啊有一些現場的狀況我想今天其他的委員應該也有提到我就不細談了但主要是文物的推車內的一個文物取出一件以後再推回庫房\n\n02:26.301 --> 02:49.897\n結果警報是不會響的那後來仔細的去了解你們回覆是說因為文物推車它的是金屬材質RFID無法穿透因此文物進出僅以推車上RFID的標籤作為識別無法及時掌握推車內個別文物的一個數量跟這個品項的一個變化我們關心的是文物\n\n02:50.785 --> 03:18.468\n那若在搬運入庫出庫過程中如果文物遺失或者是調換這個現行的系統並沒有辦法馬上的察覺這個是非常嚴重的一個狀況那我想問一下因為搬運大多數都是國家級的寶物我們真的不希望花這麼多的經費結果文物完全還是呈現在這樣子的一個狀況之下請問院長目前故宮針對這樣的問題有沒有檢討並提出改善的方案\n\n03:21.163 --> 03:39.814\n因為這個問題是我那天故意把這個bug就呈現給委員那因為我有請同仁去針對那個不鏽鋼的金屬推車去做改造可是現在的問題的話不見得是完全是因為推車的關係而是說\n\n03:40.794 --> 04:10.294\n各別的紋路跟推車都可以被掃描確認但是整批的批次的紋路堆在一起的時候基本上來講的話技術上還是有一點點困擾所以我們說是不是還有其他的一個方案投入這樣的經費所以這個部分的話就是我們會找廠商來處理因為RFID的話當初我在國立台灣美術館之後在推的時候那時候比較簡單因為它都是畫作\n\n04:11.054 --> 04:40.118\n他畫作的話每個畫作的尺寸size所以他比較容易去處理但是故宮的國寶不一定都是故宮的紋路基本上來講的話除了紋路本身之外的話我們大小不宜小的比較多然後另外的話放在錦盒裡面所以我們沒有辦法把RFID的這些識別標籤直接貼在紋路上面所以他就會放在那個放在那個盒子上面\n\n04:40.858 --> 04:56.105\n因為畫的話基本上來講可以貼在畫框或是畫的某一個邊緣背後不會影響到文物但是以故宮來講的話比較不容易把標籤直接貼在文物上面\n\n04:56.525 --> 05:12.186\n好我們能夠體諒啦但是我要講的是說這件事情我們有注意到我們更希望之後有一個具體的一個檢討方案能夠讓這個部分能夠更完善我想文物的一個運輸過程當中應該也有很反覆的一個流程\n\n05:12.546 --> 05:38.969\n那請問一下翠玉白菜在運送的途中有沒有裝設溫度濕度震動的相關的一個監控設備運送的車輛有沒有做到即時的監控我為什麼會這樣子問是因為我們最近啊這個翠玉白菜它有所謂的要這個出借嘛我們要到這個捷克做展覽對不對那整體的這個過程當中我先跟你請問我們有沒有投保全額保險\n\n05:41.236 --> 06:01.112\n全額保險沒有問題,絕對是多圖多,窩圖窩,對那保險的金額是怎麼訂定?保險金額,庫公從來都沒有對外有你們訂,還是第三方專業估價?我們自己有內帳,但是從來都沒有對外公佈好,沒關係,這是機密嗎?\n\n06:03.324 --> 06:19.374\n好是機密那就不用講沒關係機密不要說喔但是就是由你們來訂定不是由第三方嘛對不對對我們訂定好OKOK但是我剛剛回到來問喔這個運送的過程有全額保險但是這個繁複的過程有沒有裝設溫度濕度震動的相關監控設備運送的車輛有沒有做到即時監控\n\n06:26.706 --> 06:49.963\n那個基本上來講的話故宮的文物出去的話都是一定是國際化的標準作業橫紅絲氣墊貨櫃所以包括它的內廂外廂的話都有一定的作業程序在處理就我所知道到捷克的國家博物館當然展覽的環境一定會有控文控詩放到這個部分但是我在意的是運送的啦所以運送的部分你說也有依照\n\n06:50.883 --> 07:10.943\n國際的這個標準我們故宮的東西只要出故宮博物院的話就會有全程的介護就是台北的話台北市警察局國道警察局然後包括那個海關哪裡都一定要有專案的介護所以我們過去一直都跟那個警政署做合作\n\n07:11.823 --> 07:39.384\n因為這個部分上我們大家都知道這不是一般的展覽品這國寶出去都要做一個細節最高的標準去看待所以我想最後我要強調是翠玉白菜這部分這個象徵性它能夠去到捷克來做展覽讓世人能夠看到我們當然是非常的開心但是故宮肩負的不只是展覽成功的壓力更是確保文物能夠出得去\n\n07:40.405 --> 08:07.182\n展的好並且平安回來每一個細節都要做到滴水不漏也要麻煩故宮這部分要多加以我想故宮所有同仁的話都是秉持這樣的理念來處理事情那不好意思因為剛剛真的是聊到這一題突然跳到這個捷克展覽但是我還是要回過頭來再跟您請問一下我們現在目前我們這個RFID導入的一個試行方式目前是北院先試行嗎\n\n08:08.876 --> 08:20.805\n目前北院先試行然後南院的話是七氣庫房現在也在進行所以有沒有打算推動的時間表做到全面普及還是你覺得有困難因為目前的表現並不是這麼好\n\n08:22.847 --> 08:44.964\n基本上來講的話這個推動的話就持續會推動然後會慢慢修正那他整個工作的話可能要到那個北宴的所有的庫房都建制完成所以才會完成所以基本上來講的話我們會逐步推動但是所謂完成的這個部分的話因為持續都會精進都會修正\n\n08:45.560 --> 09:00.045\n我想北院聚集的是全國最珍貴的一個國寶搬運入庫出庫過程中發現如果如果有這樣子的文物遺失錯誌或者是調換都會作為一個非常嚴重的一個錯誤不容小覷所以在這樣的前提之下院長\n\n09:00.825 --> 09:16.930\n我覺得針對南北院的IFID的一個系統設置缺陷管理風險是否有系統性的檢討跟補強的一個計畫如果有那我希望你們如果完成以後相關的計畫應該要讓我們知道一下那如果沒有是否能夠提出具體的一個改善跟做法\n\n09:17.518 --> 09:40.559\n是跟我們報告就是說以目前來講的話故宮不會全部仰賴科技就是說科技只是協助做登錄做辨識的一個工程可以認同但是一定要有人親自去處理所以每一個過程的話最後都還是經過數位掃描之後都還要有人為的辨識這是故宮比較繁複的一個地方\n\n09:40.959 --> 09:58.647\n好我覺得這個部分當然是要自助啦但是要機器輔導基本上我覺得是也是有機會能夠加強因為畢竟這麼大量的一些文物那這個部分上我還是希望說能夠把這個系統做到最好這個部分再提醒你謝謝好謝謝委員好\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.349,"end":10.782,"text":"聽委委員質詢好 謝召委 有請院長請院長備質詢 謝謝委員長"},{"start":18.51,"end":41.878,"text":"好 院長我們去年113年的時候有跟你提到故宮國寶出遊台中還記得嗎有那這個規劃當時你答應我會去研議那我也講了很多次喔並在兩週後回覆我具體的一個展覽內容跟策劃的一個方向但是我好像還沒有收到這樣子的一個回覆欸那這是我第三次的跟您請問公文報告就是我"},{"start":44.34,"end":64.278,"text":"隔一個禮拜的話我就跟國美館的館長見面 看了到故宮然後我們也談了兩次那因為對於展覽的內容的話就是國美館他們有不同的一個策展的方向因為故宮國寶出遊區的話是整場包裝然後過去那國美館的話他們也去看了大美不遠"},{"start":64.938,"end":89.474,"text":"他們是希望說故宮的文物跟國美館典藏的文物用一種對話的方式來展出所以這樣的一個展覽的話他們希望說有一個比較長的時間去做規劃不是說就是故宮國寶出遊區那一批就整個過去不單單只是把國寶搬去而已對就是他們的一個建議是希望用對話的方式去做一個展覽"},{"start":92.046,"end":117.112,"text":"國美館的話他有林義山連詞的國寶內建文物他們希望說他們典藏的文物跟故宮的文物同時展出跟大美不一樣就是不同的文物一起展出我覺得利益良善嘛當然我們支持嘛但是這個部分上我們尊重專業但是也拜託盡可能的幫我們加速這個部分可不可以再麻煩你幫我們多溝通好可以嗎"},{"start":118.112,"end":145.441,"text":"好謝謝你那另外我想問一下喔4月17日我們有去做這個嘉義的南院考察雖然我沒有去喔但是我有派助理那這個助理呢他回來以後有跟我分享當時啊陸庫示範RFID的文物提件的一個時候啊有一些現場的狀況我想今天其他的委員應該也有提到我就不細談了但主要是文物的推車內的一個文物取出一件以後再推回庫房"},{"start":146.301,"end":169.897,"text":"結果警報是不會響的那後來仔細的去了解你們回覆是說因為文物推車它的是金屬材質RFID無法穿透因此文物進出僅以推車上RFID的標籤作為識別無法及時掌握推車內個別文物的一個數量跟這個品項的一個變化我們關心的是文物"},{"start":170.785,"end":198.468,"text":"那若在搬運入庫出庫過程中如果文物遺失或者是調換這個現行的系統並沒有辦法馬上的察覺這個是非常嚴重的一個狀況那我想問一下因為搬運大多數都是國家級的寶物我們真的不希望花這麼多的經費結果文物完全還是呈現在這樣子的一個狀況之下請問院長目前故宮針對這樣的問題有沒有檢討並提出改善的方案"},{"start":201.163,"end":219.814,"text":"因為這個問題是我那天故意把這個bug就呈現給委員那因為我有請同仁去針對那個不鏽鋼的金屬推車去做改造可是現在的問題的話不見得是完全是因為推車的關係而是說"},{"start":220.794,"end":250.294,"text":"各別的紋路跟推車都可以被掃描確認但是整批的批次的紋路堆在一起的時候基本上來講的話技術上還是有一點點困擾所以我們說是不是還有其他的一個方案投入這樣的經費所以這個部分的話就是我們會找廠商來處理因為RFID的話當初我在國立台灣美術館之後在推的時候那時候比較簡單因為它都是畫作"},{"start":251.054,"end":280.118,"text":"他畫作的話每個畫作的尺寸size所以他比較容易去處理但是故宮的國寶不一定都是故宮的紋路基本上來講的話除了紋路本身之外的話我們大小不宜小的比較多然後另外的話放在錦盒裡面所以我們沒有辦法把RFID的這些識別標籤直接貼在紋路上面所以他就會放在那個放在那個盒子上面"},{"start":280.858,"end":296.105,"text":"因為畫的話基本上來講可以貼在畫框或是畫的某一個邊緣背後不會影響到文物但是以故宮來講的話比較不容易把標籤直接貼在文物上面"},{"start":296.525,"end":312.186,"text":"好 我們能夠體諒啦但是我要講的是說這件事情我們有注意到我們更希望之後有一個具體的一個檢討方案能夠讓這個部分能夠更完善我想文物的一個運輸過程當中應該也有很反覆的一個流程"},{"start":312.546,"end":338.969,"text":"那請問一下翠玉白菜在運送的途中有沒有裝設溫度濕度震動的相關的一個監控設備運送的車輛有沒有做到即時的監控我為什麼會這樣子問是因為我們最近啊這個翠玉白菜它有所謂的要這個出借嘛我們要到這個捷克做展覽對不對那整體的這個過程當中我先跟你請問我們有沒有投保全額保險"},{"start":341.236,"end":361.112,"text":"全額保險沒有問題,絕對是多圖多,窩圖窩,對那保險的金額是怎麼訂定?保險金額,庫公從來都沒有對外有你們訂,還是第三方專業估價?我們自己有內帳,但是從來都沒有對外公佈好,沒關係,這是機密嗎?"},{"start":363.324,"end":379.374,"text":"好 是機密那就不用講 沒關係 機密不要說喔但是就是由你們來訂定 不是由第三方嘛 對不對對 我們訂定 好 OK OK但是我剛剛回到來問喔 這個運送的過程有全額保險但是這個繁複的過程有沒有裝設溫度 濕度 震動的相關監控設備運送的車輛有沒有做到即時監控"},{"start":386.706,"end":409.963,"text":"那個基本上來講的話故宮的文物出去的話都是一定是國際化的標準作業橫紅絲氣墊貨櫃所以包括它的內廂外廂的話都有一定的作業程序在處理就我所知道到捷克的國家博物館當然展覽的環境一定會有控文控詩放到這個部分但是我在意的是運送的啦所以運送的部分你說也有依照"},{"start":410.883,"end":430.943,"text":"國際的這個標準我們故宮的東西只要出故宮博物院的話就會有全程的介護就是台北的話台北市警察局國道警察局然後包括那個海關哪裡都一定要有專案的介護所以我們過去一直都跟那個警政署做合作"},{"start":431.823,"end":459.384,"text":"因為這個部分上我們大家都知道這不是一般的展覽品這國寶出去都要做一個細節最高的標準去看待所以我想最後我要強調是翠玉白菜這部分這個象徵性它能夠去到捷克來做展覽讓世人能夠看到我們當然是非常的開心但是故宮肩負的不只是展覽成功的壓力更是確保文物能夠出得去"},{"start":460.405,"end":487.182,"text":"展的好並且平安回來每一個細節都要做到滴水不漏也要麻煩故宮這部分要多加以我想故宮所有同仁的話都是秉持這樣的理念來處理事情那不好意思因為剛剛真的是聊到這一題突然跳到這個捷克展覽但是我還是要回過頭來再跟您請問一下我們現在目前我們這個RFID導入的一個試行方式目前是北院先試行嗎"},{"start":488.876,"end":500.805,"text":"目前北院先試行然後南院的話是七氣庫房現在也在進行所以有沒有打算推動的時間表做到全面普及還是你覺得有困難因為目前的表現並不是這麼好"},{"start":502.847,"end":524.964,"text":"基本上來講的話這個推動的話就持續會推動然後會慢慢修正那他整個工作的話可能要到那個北宴的所有的庫房都建制完成所以才會完成所以基本上來講的話我們會逐步推動但是所謂完成的這個部分的話因為持續都會精進都會修正"},{"start":525.56,"end":540.045,"text":"我想北院聚集的是全國最珍貴的一個國寶搬運入庫出庫過程中發現如果如果有這樣子的文物遺失錯誌或者是調換都會作為一個非常嚴重的一個錯誤不容小覷所以在這樣的前提之下院長"},{"start":540.825,"end":556.93,"text":"我覺得針對南北院的IFID的一個系統設置缺陷管理風險是否有系統性的檢討跟補強的一個計畫如果有那我希望你們如果完成以後相關的計畫應該要讓我們知道一下那如果沒有是否能夠提出具體的一個改善跟做法"},{"start":557.518,"end":580.559,"text":"是跟我們報告就是說以目前來講的話故宮不會全部仰賴科技就是說科技只是協助做登錄做辨識的一個工程可以認同但是一定要有人親自去處理所以每一個過程的話最後都還是經過數位掃描之後都還要有人為的辨識這是故宮比較繁複的一個地方"},{"start":580.959,"end":598.647,"text":"好我覺得這個部分當然是要自助啦但是要機器輔導基本上我覺得是也是有機會能夠加強因為畢竟這麼大量的一些文物那這個部分上我還是希望說能夠把這個系統做到最好這個部分再提醒你謝謝好謝謝委員好"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":308,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（10時18分）謝謝召委，有請院長。"],["主席：請院長備詢，謝謝。"],["蕭院長宗煌：羅委員早。"],["羅委員廷瑋：院長，我們去（113）年的時候有跟你提到故宮國寶出遊臺中，還記得嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：有。"],["羅委員廷瑋：這個規劃當時你答應我會去研議，我也講了很多次，並在兩週後回復我具體的展覽內容跟策劃方向，但是我好像還沒有收到這樣的回復，這是我第3次跟您請託。"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，就是隔一個禮拜，我就跟國美館館長見面，他也有到故宮，然後我們也談了兩次，因為對於展覽內容的話，就是國美館他們有不同的策展方向，因為「故宮國寶出遊去」是整場包裝，然後過去。國美館的話，他們也去看了「大美不言」，他們是希望故宮的文物跟國美館的典藏文物用一種對話的方式來展出，所以針對這樣的一個展覽，他們希望有一個比較長的時間規劃，而不是「故宮國寶出遊去」那一批就整個過去。"],["羅委員廷瑋：不單單只是把國寶搬去而已……"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，就是……"],["羅委員廷瑋：他們的建議是，希望用對話的方式去做展覽？"],["蕭院長宗煌：比如說國美館有林玉山《蓮池》這件國寶文物，他們希望自己典藏的文物跟故宮的文物同時展出，跟「大美不言」一樣，就是不同的文物一起展出。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我覺得立意良善，我們當然支持，這個部分我們尊重專業，但是也拜託儘可能的加速，這個部分可不可以再麻煩你幫我們多溝通，可以嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：謝謝你。","另外我想問一下，4月17日我們有去嘉義的南院考察，雖然我沒有去，但是我有派助理，助理回來以後有跟我分享，當時入庫試辦RFID文物提件的時候有一些現場狀況，我想今天其他的委員應該也有提到，我就不細談，但主要是文物推車內取出一件文物以後再推回庫房，結果警報是不會響的，後來仔細去了解，你們的回復是，因為文物推車是金屬材質，RFID無法穿透，因此文物進出僅以推車上RFID的標籤作為識別，無法即時掌握推車內個別文物的數量跟品項的變化。我們關心的是文物，若在搬運入庫、出庫的過程中文物遺失或者調換，這個現行的系統並沒有辦法馬上察覺，這是非常嚴重的一個狀況。我想問一下，因為搬運的大多數是國家級的寶物，我們真的不希望花這麼多的經費，結果文物還是呈現在這樣子的狀況之下，請問院長，目前故宮針對這樣的問題有沒有檢討並提出改善的方案？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，這個問題是我那天故意把這個bug呈現給委員，我有請同仁針對不鏽鋼的金屬推車做改造，但現在的問題不見得完全是因為推車的關係，而是個別的文物跟推車都可以被掃描確認，但是整批次文物堆在一起的時候，技術上還是有一點點困擾。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以是不是還有其他的方案？既然已經投入這樣的經費。"],["蕭院長宗煌：這個部分我們會找廠商來處理，關於RFID，當初我在國立臺灣美術館推動的時候比較簡單，因為那邊都是畫作，每個畫作的size比較容易處理。"],["羅委員廷瑋：大致相同？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是故宮的國寶不一定都是這樣。"],["蕭院長宗煌：故宮的文物基本上來講，除了文物本身之外，我們的大小不一，小的比較多，而且還會放在錦盒裡面，所以我們沒有辦法把RFID這些識別標籤直接貼在文物上面，就會放在盒子上面。如果是畫的話，基本上可以貼在畫框或是畫的某一個邊緣、背後，不會影響到文物，但是以故宮來講，比較不容易把那個標籤直接貼在文物上面。"],["羅委員廷瑋：這部分我們能夠體諒，但我要講的是，這件事情我們有注意到，我們更希望之後有一個具體的檢討方案能夠讓這部分更完善。","我想文物的運輸過程當中應該也有很繁複的流程，請問一下，翠玉白菜在運送途中有沒有裝設溫度、溼度、震動相關的監控設備？運送的車輛有沒有做到即時的監控？我為什麼會這樣子問？因為最近翠玉白菜要出借到捷克做展覽，在整體過程當中，我先請問你，我們有沒有投保全額保險？"],["蕭院長宗煌：全額保險沒有問題，絕對是door 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