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\"那增強他們的風險控管能力之後呢事實上這個陸陸續續都會解開來補上視訊的一個查證因為過去那個自然憑證在使用上他的安全性理論上適同本人那因為現在等於是詐團把這個自然憑證都騙到手了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 206.28, \"end\": 206.881, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 206.881, \"end\": 207.341, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 207.341, \"end\": 207.521, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 207.521, \"end\": 207.982, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"險\"}, {\"word\": \"控\", \"start\": 207.982, \"end\": 208.142, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 208.142, \"end\": 208.262, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 208.262, \"end\": 208.422, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 208.422, \"end\": 208.562, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 208.562, \"end\": 208.682, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 208.682, \"end\": 208.842, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 208.842, \"end\": 209.063, \"score\": 0.94}, 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\"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 218.231, \"end\": 218.491, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 218.491, \"end\": 219.112, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"適\"}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 219.112, \"end\": 219.352, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 219.352, \"end\": 219.573, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 219.573, \"end\": 220.433, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 220.433, \"end\": 220.573, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 220.573, \"end\": 220.934, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 220.934, \"end\": 221.114, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 221.114, \"end\": 221.274, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 221.274, \"end\": 221.454, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 221.454, \"end\": 221.975, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"詐\"}, {\"word\": \"團\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 221.975, \"end\": 222.715, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 222.715, \"end\": 222.816, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 222.816, \"end\": 223.276, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"憑\"}, {\"word\": \"證\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 223.276, \"end\": 223.636, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"騙\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 223.636, \"end\": 223.917, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"手\", \"start\": 223.917, \"end\": 224.157, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 224.157, \"end\": 224.177, \"score\": 1.0}]}, {\"start\": 224.937, \"end\": 251.502, \"text\": \"那現在未來可能就是導向就是說如果是不是才開用這個自然憑證再加上視訊確認是本人的這種方式你用視訊來查證的時候這個多久來執行呢這個部分因為會涉及到銀行系統整合的問題所以我們會再跟相關銀行來討論總是有一個預計的時間盡快的時間大概多久盡快時間會找銀行來開會造成大家很多的一個不方便是\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 224.937, \"end\": 225.257, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 225.257, \"end\": 225.397, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 225.397, 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我想就是說在上個月那個行政院已經通過了那個金管會的這個保險法的一個修正草案那在我也那個召開了那個公聽會\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 252.842, \"end\": 252.982, \"score\": 0.514}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 252.982, \"end\": 253.403, \"score\": 0.644}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 253.403, \"end\": 253.723, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 253.723, \"end\": 253.923, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 253.923, \"end\": 254.203, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"半\", \"start\": 254.203, \"end\": 254.363, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 254.363, \"end\": 254.564, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 254.564, \"end\": 254.844, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"半\", \"start\": 254.844, \"end\": 254.964, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 254.964, \"end\": 255.124, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 255.124, \"end\": 255.284, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 255.284, \"end\": 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00:00:50,737\n是跟委員報告在數位存款方面它有分三類的存款那自然人憑證它是第一類存款理論上它的安全性是最高的它安全性是最高的好局長你把它用你自己本身使用過自然人憑證嗎你有沒有自然人憑證\n\n4\n00:00:51,818 --> 00:01:15,734\n有那你最常用在哪裡報稅報稅是最好用的好現在你們把就是我們的八大公股行庫把這個治安人憑證就是陸續我們把它暫停了因為為什麼你們認為治安人憑證他可能成為詐騙集團的一個工具他會成為一個警示的一個賬戶\n\n5\n00:01:17,375 --> 00:01:38,459\n那如果我們用這樣治標不治本的方式這樣去圍堵這個把它暫停自然人憑證的話這個方式好嗎我請那個主委來回答這個問題到底我們金管會對於自然人憑證把它暫停了這一個測試到底是好還是不好\n\n6\n00:01:39,352 --> 00:02:02,527\n當然就是因為這是遇到問題解決問題的一種方法但是就是說我們現階段先尊重各個金融機構他們對風險的判斷但是比如說我們常講說我們在金融監理上我們常鼓勵我們金融機構不可以做完全去風險化的業務這會影響到很多的那個正常的營運活動比如說\n\n7\n00:02:03,786 --> 00:02:18,042\n我不讓高速公路車子上去自然不會有車禍但是它也喪失了運輸的功能反而你要好好去想一件事情就是說自然平正在執行的過程當中有什麼東西我沒辦法管控的這些人我才把它做一個阻擋\n\n8\n00:02:18,863 --> 00:02:37,248\n那當然現在他們可能還沒有找到原因我想這部分確實也看到一些問題但是我們會針對這個問題請他們好好去思考一下怎麼樣能夠橫平那主委有沒有有一個就是說你看你五月份陸續你還有八大工股行庫還要再加進來了要把它停止了\n\n9\n00:02:37,708 --> 00:03:01,647\n好這個要停止多久那你們就是有設定一個期限如果就是說在這個半年的期限還是三個月的期限裡頭其實它已經是就是這一個警示的帳號它這個狀況變少了我們要把它恢復了有沒有這樣子的一個就是準備跟情況是那個童局長有一個他的實務的作法跟我們報告是跟我們報告\n\n10\n00:03:02,327 --> 00:03:25,800\n那這個部分剛才如同我跟委員報告第一類的帳戶用自然人憑證這個是最安全的那銀行現在遇到的情境是詐團騙民眾把自然人憑證交付給他那現在的一個問題點是在於說我們在進行第一類帳戶的時候並沒有採視訊所以現在八大行戶我們大概初步跟他溝通未來可以補強比方說透過視訊的方式\n\n11\n00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:44,177\n那增強他們的風險控管能力之後呢事實上這個陸陸續續都會解開來補上視訊的一個查證因為過去那個自然憑證在使用上他的安全性理論上適同本人那因為現在等於是詐團把這個自然憑證都騙到手了\n\n12\n00:03:44,937 --> 00:04:11,502\n那現在未來可能就是導向就是說如果是不是才開用這個自然憑證再加上視訊確認是本人的這種方式你用視訊來查證的時候這個多久來執行呢這個部分因為會涉及到銀行系統整合的問題所以我們會再跟相關銀行來討論總是有一個預計的時間盡快的時間大概多久盡快時間會找銀行來開會造成大家很多的一個不方便是\n\n13\n00:04:12,842 --> 00:04:32,758\n大概應該有個期限半年啊半年有沒有機會好我們往這個目標來走那也跟委員報告因為第三類障礙事件那個主委我想就是說在上個月那個行政院已經通過了那個金管會的這個保險法的一個修正草案那在我也那個召開了那個公聽會\n\n14\n00:04:34,099 --> 00:04:52,612\n那相信應該是會經過了社會大眾普遍的一個討論那也達成一個初步的共識那今天保險法這個草案的一個審查其實詳細的來看的話我想今晚會已經做了很多那個周全的一個這個準備了\n\n15\n00:04:54,793 --> 00:05:10,699\n這個優關人民的權利的保險法的一個修正其實我們都知道就是說對社會大眾影響局劇非常的大那陳磊斯堡委員剛才特別的就是說針對的就是說這一個現有的現有的超過這個100萬件的這個案件在在這個這個現階段裡頭那\n\n16\n00:05:17,290 --> 00:05:42,475\n我剛才司法委員一直在追問你說到底有多久的時間多久的時間可以來完成就是處理全部的這個案件那你一直在講的就是說你這個半年修法通過了沒有問題可是後面是司法司法的一個那個就是這個程序的一個問題那好那我請教一下那個司法院那個那個\n\n17\n00:05:45,055 --> 00:06:00,875\n馬法官那如果我們修法通過了以後你們這邊有多久可以來解決這些剩下來的一個案件如果修法通過了你剩下來的案件就不多啦他可能剩下兩三成那這兩三成你需要多久的時間啊\n\n18\n00:06:04,208 --> 00:06:20,863\n委員長主席早這邊想要向委員報告的是說我們這次的修法雖然有排除掉部分的這個保險金額及種類但是在這個執行端他收到案件的時候他是還是會收到案件在想要執行實務的時候案件是\n\n19\n00:06:22,301 --> 00:06:25,322\n你這個行政程序都跑了一輪了以後你覺得你需要多久的時間可以把後續的這些案子處理掉\n\n20\n00:06:42,689 --> 00:06:57,985\n因為在查詢之後我們才有辦法知道說有些案件有些保險類型是沒有辦法執行的也就是說我們可能要實際上在修法後來觀察說在保險執行的速度上所以你們大概有一個預計的時間嘛因為你們會抓一個模擬的一個流程嘛\n\n21\n00:06:58,285 --> 00:07:26,218\n就是新的案子再進來然後再經過你們的審查那這樣子大概需要多少的時間因為你知道這一次的修法其實我們就是要解決很多的一個社會問題因為這個存了一百多萬件的這個案子在這個地方如果我們今天修法沒有辦法給社會大眾一個比較明確的一個交代的話那這個好像是所有我們的努力就缺了那麼一腳了\n\n22\n00:07:26,997 --> 00:07:53,379\n是這邊向委員報告在這次保險法修法之後我們預估案件的處理流程速度會變快但是因為實際上到底有多少的這個可以被免除執行的案件的這個比例所以有沒有辦法半年內就是說就是回到那個司法的這個體系裡頭我們有在大概可以就是掌握一個六個月八個月把你們後續的這些行政程序就是把它處理完是\n\n23\n00:07:54,399 --> 00:08:00,364\n我們這方面我們可能還要再回去做評估那你之前都沒有評估沒有評估還來\n\n24\n00:08:02,610 --> 00:08:27,079\n我們有評估我們的人力那你都知道我們在修法修法大家下了那麼多的一個努力了好謝謝馬法官把這個問題帶回去這個真的快速的來評估那好主委還是要跟你再探討就是說我們從保化中心的一個統計就是國人在人壽保險跟年金保險裡頭通常我們大概都是每一個人身上都會有2.3\n\n25\n00:08:30,341 --> 00:08:54,810\n2.63張的一個人壽險那這次修正有關強制執行的部分其實還是要回來跟那個主委做一個探討就是說那我們還是覺得就是這個投保利如果就是到這個人壽險的投保利在這張圖裡頭他有特別那個就是跟大家做一個那個介紹那如果\n\n26\n00:08:55,470 --> 00:09:17,039\n那個強制保單的一個額度那跟最低生活的一個限度其實就是要跟主委探討的就是說還是很多委員跟你探討就是說如果用每一個地區每一個人最低的一個生活會的1.2倍來計算這個三個月的金額那這個對其他除了台北市以外的這個\n\n27\n00:09:18,560 --> 00:09:46,386\n保險人是那個不公平的就顯然他有很明顯的一個城鄉的一個差距不知道主委怎麼看這個議題呢這個也是我在接觸這個修法的時候才知道我們現在強制執行就是按照這個標準來做所以當時我們只是在直接嫁接這個強制執行的概念當我們經過這一輪的公聽以後還有各個委員的指證以後呢\n\n28\n00:09:46,986 --> 00:10:11,785\n就剛剛委員也提到公聽會後我們回去也做很多的檢討很多的這些討論比如說針對這個額度我們基於簡正辨明剛剛也提到剛剛委員也有講到就是說我們怎麼樣能夠簡化這個認定的標準上次也有人提說是不是就以台北市或是最高的作為一個標準我想這個可以來做一個解決大家各個委員提案的一些的問題我想這是一個可以思考的方向\n\n29\n00:10:12,485 --> 00:10:30,702\n那你想想看嘛這個城鄉的差距就在這個地方如果我以這一張圖來看的話我們台南才55.854那台北市竟然是73,365那這個台南人一定是不服氣啦因為保單這個保惠都是一樣的啊怎麼會是\n\n30\n00:10:31,843 --> 00:10:45,517\n我想那個當時強制執行法應該也是有他自己的考量才訂出這個啦齁那只是說我們保險法現在單獨立法齁我們也不希望說這樣增加整個很高的社會成本所以我覺得這部分我們剛才提到說我們對這個也是\n\n31\n00:10:47,879 --> 00:11:14,910\n開放、文明、尊重我們的審查所以我請教你去年的這個草案的一個草案的一個豁免額度是多少為什麼跟這一次我因為你又做了修正嘛去年去年是做了十萬塊的那個是不是十萬塊這個去年預告的時候呢他是用各種不同的標準去列示他用列舉的比如說有些用嫌種別有些用己父別那有些用比如說他的年金的己父的樣態還用\n\n32\n00:11:16,631 --> 00:11:37,267\n比如說財產保險把它排除這個就等於說在實務執行上未來可能會更為複雜因為我們現在實務上的商品不是用我們法律名詞在做歸類比如就像各位常常會看到你很多的商品叫年年如意什麼終身受險或是什麼保險它很難去歸類在我們的法律條文上所以認定上就會產生很大的困擾\n\n33\n00:11:37,967 --> 00:11:48,316\n所以我們才會把它重新整理用一個最基本的概念來做所以剛才我們標準的部分大家集中在標準我覺得標準可以大家來尋求一個共識\n\n34\n00:11:49,554 --> 00:12:17,156\n好我想這個主委政策是不換管而換不均所以就是說我們都會聽到了很多很多的一個聲音那在最後又請金管會讓民眾去了解就是說這個解約金額度這個很明確是就是一個很明確的一個額度那讓金管會就是堅持這個對台南人不利的這一個豁免標準可以把它就是取消掉拉平謝謝\n\n35\n00:12:18,858 --> 00:12:26,831\n最後我絕對沒有針對國人任何地區有什麼不公平對待的想法我們希望解決問題謝謝謝謝主委謝謝主席謝謝賴昭偉謝謝彭主委\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n530\t9431\t還有銀行局銅局長還有我們司法院那個毛法官好請彭主委銅局長還有毛法官\n11583\t34567\t我首先先請教我們的銀行局局長最近就是說在這個以你的工作經驗裡頭自然人的憑證最直接最方便的一個方式你自己親身感受到了是什麼是一個自然人憑證是最好用的\n35047\t50737\t是 跟委員報告在數位存款方面它有分三類的存款那自然人憑證它是第一類存款理論上它的安全性是最高的它安全性是最高的好 局長你把它用你自己本身使用過自然人憑證嗎你有沒有自然人憑證\n51818\t75734\t有那你最常用在哪裡報稅報稅是最好用的好現在你們把就是我們的八大公股行庫把這個治安人憑證就是陸續我們把它暫停了因為為什麼你們認為治安人憑證他可能成為詐騙集團的一個工具他會成為一個警示的一個賬戶\n77375\t98459\t那如果我們用這樣治標不治本的方式這樣去圍堵這個把它暫停自然人憑證的話這個方式好嗎我請那個主委來回答這個問題到底我們金管會對於自然人憑證把它暫停了這一個測試到底是好還是不好\n99352\t122527\t當然就是因為這是遇到問題解決問題的一種方法但是就是說我們現階段先尊重各個金融機構他們對風險的判斷但是比如說我們常講說我們在金融監理上我們常鼓勵我們金融機構不可以做完全去風險化的業務這會影響到很多的那個正常的營運活動比如說\n123786\t138042\t我不讓高速公路車子上去自然不會有車禍但是它也喪失了運輸的功能反而你要好好去想一件事情就是說自然平正在執行的過程當中有什麼東西我沒辦法管控的這些人我才把它做一個阻擋\n138863\t157248\t那當然現在他們可能還沒有找到原因我想這部分確實也看到一些問題但是我們會針對這個問題請他們好好去思考一下怎麼樣能夠橫平那主委有沒有有一個就是說你看你五月份陸續你還有八大工股行庫還要再加進來了要把它停止了\n157708\t181647\t好 這個要停止多久那你們就是有設定一個期限如果就是說在這個半年的期限還是三個月的期限裡頭其實它已經是就是這一個警示的帳號它這個狀況變少了我們要把它恢復了有沒有這樣子的一個就是準備跟情況是 那個童局長有一個他的實務的作法跟我們報告是 跟我們報告\n182327\t205800\t那這個部分剛才如同我跟委員報告第一類的帳戶用自然人憑證這個是最安全的那銀行現在遇到的情境是詐團騙民眾把自然人憑證交付給他那現在的一個問題點是在於說我們在進行第一類帳戶的時候並沒有採視訊所以現在八大行戶我們大概初步跟他溝通未來可以補強比方說透過視訊的方式\n206280\t224177\t那增強他們的風險控管能力之後呢事實上這個陸陸續續都會解開來補上視訊的一個查證因為過去那個自然憑證在使用上他的安全性理論上適同本人那因為現在等於是詐團把這個自然憑證都騙到手了\n224937\t251502\t那現在未來可能就是導向就是說如果是不是才開用這個自然憑證再加上視訊確認是本人的這種方式你用視訊來查證的時候這個多久來執行呢這個部分因為會涉及到銀行系統整合的問題所以我們會再跟相關銀行來討論總是有一個預計的時間盡快的時間大概多久盡快時間會找銀行來開會造成大家很多的一個不方便是\n252842\t272758\t大概應該有個期限 半年啊 半年有沒有機會好 我們往這個目標來走 那也跟委員報告 因為第三類障礙事件那個主委 我想就是說在上個月那個行政院已經通過了那個金管會的這個保險法的一個修正草案那在我也那個召開了那個公聽會\n274099\t292612\t那相信應該是會經過了社會大眾普遍的一個討論那也達成一個初步的共識那今天保險法這個草案的一個審查其實詳細的來看的話我想今晚會已經做了很多那個周全的一個這個準備了\n294793\t310699\t這個優關人民的權利的保險法的一個修正其實我們都知道就是說對社會大眾影響局劇非常的大那陳磊斯堡委員剛才特別的就是說針對的就是說這一個現有的現有的超過這個100萬件的這個案件在在這個這個現階段裡頭那\n317290\t342475\t我剛才司法委員一直在追問你說到底有多久的時間多久的時間可以來完成就是處理全部的這個案件那你一直在講的就是說你這個半年修法通過了沒有問題可是後面是司法司法的一個那個就是這個程序的一個問題那好那我請教一下那個司法院那個那個\n345055\t360875\t馬法官那如果我們修法通過了以後你們這邊有多久可以來解決這些剩下來的一個案件如果修法通過了你剩下來的案件就不多啦他可能剩下兩三成那這兩三成你需要多久的時間啊\n364208\t380863\t委員長 主席早這邊想要向委員報告的是說我們這次的修法雖然有排除掉部分的這個保險金額及種類但是在這個執行端他收到案件的時候他是還是會收到案件在想要執行實務的時候案件是\n382301\t385322\t你這個行政程序都跑了一輪了以後你覺得你需要多久的時間可以把後續的這些案子處理掉\n402689\t417985\t因為在查詢之後我們才有辦法知道說有些案件有些保險類型是沒有辦法執行的也就是說我們可能要實際上在修法後來觀察說在保險執行的速度上所以你們大概有一個預計的時間嘛因為你們會抓一個模擬的一個流程嘛\n418285\t446218\t就是新的案子再進來然後再經過你們的審查那這樣子大概需要多少的時間因為你知道這一次的修法其實我們就是要解決很多的一個社會問題因為這個存了一百多萬件的這個案子在這個地方如果我們今天修法沒有辦法給社會大眾一個比較明確的一個交代的話那這個好像是所有我們的努力就缺了那麼一腳了\n446997\t473379\t是這邊向委員報告在這次保險法修法之後我們預估案件的處理流程速度會變快但是因為實際上到底有多少的這個可以被免除執行的案件的這個比例所以有沒有辦法半年內就是說就是回到那個司法的這個體系裡頭我們有在大概可以就是掌握一個六個月八個月把你們後續的這些行政程序就是把它處理完是\n474399\t480364\t我們這方面我們可能還要再回去做評估那你之前都沒有評估 沒有評估還來\n482610\t507079\t我們有評估我們的人力那你都知道我們在修法修法大家下了那麼多的一個努力了好謝謝馬法官把這個問題帶回去這個真的快速的來評估那好 主委還是要跟你再探討就是說我們從保化中心的一個統計就是國人在人壽保險跟年金保險裡頭通常我們大概都是每一個人身上都會有2.3\n510341\t534810\t2.63張的一個人壽險那這次修正有關強制執行的部分其實還是要回來跟那個主委做一個探討就是說那我們還是覺得就是這個投保利如果就是到這個人壽險的投保利在這張圖裡頭他有特別那個就是跟大家做一個那個介紹那如果\n535470\t557039\t那個強制保單的一個額度那跟最低生活的一個限度其實就是要跟主委探討的就是說還是很多委員跟你探討就是說如果用每一個地區每一個人最低的一個生活會的1.2倍來計算這個三個月的金額那這個對其他除了台北市以外的這個\n558560\t586386\t保險人是那個不公平的就顯然他有很明顯的一個城鄉的一個差距不知道主委怎麼看這個議題呢這個也是我在接觸這個修法的時候才知道我們現在強制執行就是按照這個標準來做所以當時我們只是在直接嫁接這個強制執行的概念當我們經過這一輪的公聽以後還有各個委員的指證以後呢\n586986\t611785\t就剛剛委員也提到公聽會後我們回去也做很多的檢討很多的這些討論比如說針對這個額度我們基於簡正辨明剛剛也提到剛剛委員也有講到就是說我們怎麼樣能夠簡化這個認定的標準上次也有人提說是不是就以台北市或是最高的作為一個標準我想這個可以來做一個解決大家各個委員提案的一些的問題我想這是一個可以思考的方向\n612485\t630702\t那你想想看嘛 這個城鄉的差距就在這個地方如果我以這一張圖來看的話 我們台南才55.854那台北市竟然是73,365那這個台南人一定是不服氣啦因為保單 這個保惠都是一樣的啊 怎麼會是\n631843\t645517\t我想那個當時強制執行法應該也是有他自己的考量才訂出這個啦齁那只是說我們保險法現在單獨立法齁我們也不希望說這樣增加整個很高的社會成本所以我覺得這部分我們剛才提到說我們對這個也是\n647879\t674910\t開放、文明、尊重我們的審查所以我請教你去年的這個草案的一個草案的一個豁免額度是多少為什麼跟這一次我因為你又做了修正嘛去年去年是做了十萬塊的那個是不是十萬塊這個去年預告的時候呢他是用各種不同的標準去列示他用列舉的比如說有些用嫌種別有些用己父別那有些用比如說他的年金的己父的樣態還用\n676631\t697267\t比如說財產保險把它排除這個就等於說在實務執行上未來可能會更為複雜因為我們現在實務上的商品不是用我們法律名詞在做歸類比如就像各位常常會看到你很多的商品叫年年如意什麼終身受險或是什麼保險它很難去歸類在我們的法律條文上所以認定上就會產生很大的困擾\n697967\t708316\t所以我們才會把它重新整理用一個最基本的概念來做所以剛才我們標準的部分大家集中在標準我覺得標準可以大家來尋求一個共識\n709554\t737156\t好我想這個主委政策是不換管而換不均所以就是說我們都會聽到了很多很多的一個聲音那在最後又請金管會讓民眾去了解就是說這個解約金額度這個很明確是就是一個很明確的一個額度那讓金管會就是堅持這個對台南人不利的這一個豁免標準可以把它就是取消掉拉平謝謝\n738858\t746831\t最後我絕對沒有針對國人任何地區有什麼不公平對待的想法我們希望解決問題謝謝謝謝主委 謝謝主席謝謝賴昭偉 謝謝彭主委\n","txt":"還有銀行局銅局長還有我們司法院那個毛法官好請彭主委銅局長還有毛法官\n我首先先請教我們的銀行局局長最近就是說在這個以你的工作經驗裡頭自然人的憑證最直接最方便的一個方式你自己親身感受到了是什麼是一個自然人憑證是最好用的\n是 跟委員報告在數位存款方面它有分三類的存款那自然人憑證它是第一類存款理論上它的安全性是最高的它安全性是最高的好 局長你把它用你自己本身使用過自然人憑證嗎你有沒有自然人憑證\n有那你最常用在哪裡報稅報稅是最好用的好現在你們把就是我們的八大公股行庫把這個治安人憑證就是陸續我們把它暫停了因為為什麼你們認為治安人憑證他可能成為詐騙集團的一個工具他會成為一個警示的一個賬戶\n那如果我們用這樣治標不治本的方式這樣去圍堵這個把它暫停自然人憑證的話這個方式好嗎我請那個主委來回答這個問題到底我們金管會對於自然人憑證把它暫停了這一個測試到底是好還是不好\n當然就是因為這是遇到問題解決問題的一種方法但是就是說我們現階段先尊重各個金融機構他們對風險的判斷但是比如說我們常講說我們在金融監理上我們常鼓勵我們金融機構不可以做完全去風險化的業務這會影響到很多的那個正常的營運活動比如說\n我不讓高速公路車子上去自然不會有車禍但是它也喪失了運輸的功能反而你要好好去想一件事情就是說自然平正在執行的過程當中有什麼東西我沒辦法管控的這些人我才把它做一個阻擋\n那當然現在他們可能還沒有找到原因我想這部分確實也看到一些問題但是我們會針對這個問題請他們好好去思考一下怎麼樣能夠橫平那主委有沒有有一個就是說你看你五月份陸續你還有八大工股行庫還要再加進來了要把它停止了\n好 這個要停止多久那你們就是有設定一個期限如果就是說在這個半年的期限還是三個月的期限裡頭其實它已經是就是這一個警示的帳號它這個狀況變少了我們要把它恢復了有沒有這樣子的一個就是準備跟情況是 那個童局長有一個他的實務的作法跟我們報告是 跟我們報告\n那這個部分剛才如同我跟委員報告第一類的帳戶用自然人憑證這個是最安全的那銀行現在遇到的情境是詐團騙民眾把自然人憑證交付給他那現在的一個問題點是在於說我們在進行第一類帳戶的時候並沒有採視訊所以現在八大行戶我們大概初步跟他溝通未來可以補強比方說透過視訊的方式\n那增強他們的風險控管能力之後呢事實上這個陸陸續續都會解開來補上視訊的一個查證因為過去那個自然憑證在使用上他的安全性理論上適同本人那因為現在等於是詐團把這個自然憑證都騙到手了\n那現在未來可能就是導向就是說如果是不是才開用這個自然憑證再加上視訊確認是本人的這種方式你用視訊來查證的時候這個多久來執行呢這個部分因為會涉及到銀行系統整合的問題所以我們會再跟相關銀行來討論總是有一個預計的時間盡快的時間大概多久盡快時間會找銀行來開會造成大家很多的一個不方便是\n大概應該有個期限 半年啊 半年有沒有機會好 我們往這個目標來走 那也跟委員報告 因為第三類障礙事件那個主委 我想就是說在上個月那個行政院已經通過了那個金管會的這個保險法的一個修正草案那在我也那個召開了那個公聽會\n那相信應該是會經過了社會大眾普遍的一個討論那也達成一個初步的共識那今天保險法這個草案的一個審查其實詳細的來看的話我想今晚會已經做了很多那個周全的一個這個準備了\n這個優關人民的權利的保險法的一個修正其實我們都知道就是說對社會大眾影響局劇非常的大那陳磊斯堡委員剛才特別的就是說針對的就是說這一個現有的現有的超過這個100萬件的這個案件在在這個這個現階段裡頭那\n我剛才司法委員一直在追問你說到底有多久的時間多久的時間可以來完成就是處理全部的這個案件那你一直在講的就是說你這個半年修法通過了沒有問題可是後面是司法司法的一個那個就是這個程序的一個問題那好那我請教一下那個司法院那個那個\n馬法官那如果我們修法通過了以後你們這邊有多久可以來解決這些剩下來的一個案件如果修法通過了你剩下來的案件就不多啦他可能剩下兩三成那這兩三成你需要多久的時間啊\n委員長 主席早這邊想要向委員報告的是說我們這次的修法雖然有排除掉部分的這個保險金額及種類但是在這個執行端他收到案件的時候他是還是會收到案件在想要執行實務的時候案件是\n你這個行政程序都跑了一輪了以後你覺得你需要多久的時間可以把後續的這些案子處理掉\n因為在查詢之後我們才有辦法知道說有些案件有些保險類型是沒有辦法執行的也就是說我們可能要實際上在修法後來觀察說在保險執行的速度上所以你們大概有一個預計的時間嘛因為你們會抓一個模擬的一個流程嘛\n就是新的案子再進來然後再經過你們的審查那這樣子大概需要多少的時間因為你知道這一次的修法其實我們就是要解決很多的一個社會問題因為這個存了一百多萬件的這個案子在這個地方如果我們今天修法沒有辦法給社會大眾一個比較明確的一個交代的話那這個好像是所有我們的努力就缺了那麼一腳了\n是這邊向委員報告在這次保險法修法之後我們預估案件的處理流程速度會變快但是因為實際上到底有多少的這個可以被免除執行的案件的這個比例所以有沒有辦法半年內就是說就是回到那個司法的這個體系裡頭我們有在大概可以就是掌握一個六個月八個月把你們後續的這些行政程序就是把它處理完是\n我們這方面我們可能還要再回去做評估那你之前都沒有評估 沒有評估還來\n我們有評估我們的人力那你都知道我們在修法修法大家下了那麼多的一個努力了好謝謝馬法官把這個問題帶回去這個真的快速的來評估那好 主委還是要跟你再探討就是說我們從保化中心的一個統計就是國人在人壽保險跟年金保險裡頭通常我們大概都是每一個人身上都會有2.3\n2.63張的一個人壽險那這次修正有關強制執行的部分其實還是要回來跟那個主委做一個探討就是說那我們還是覺得就是這個投保利如果就是到這個人壽險的投保利在這張圖裡頭他有特別那個就是跟大家做一個那個介紹那如果\n那個強制保單的一個額度那跟最低生活的一個限度其實就是要跟主委探討的就是說還是很多委員跟你探討就是說如果用每一個地區每一個人最低的一個生活會的1.2倍來計算這個三個月的金額那這個對其他除了台北市以外的這個\n保險人是那個不公平的就顯然他有很明顯的一個城鄉的一個差距不知道主委怎麼看這個議題呢這個也是我在接觸這個修法的時候才知道我們現在強制執行就是按照這個標準來做所以當時我們只是在直接嫁接這個強制執行的概念當我們經過這一輪的公聽以後還有各個委員的指證以後呢\n就剛剛委員也提到公聽會後我們回去也做很多的檢討很多的這些討論比如說針對這個額度我們基於簡正辨明剛剛也提到剛剛委員也有講到就是說我們怎麼樣能夠簡化這個認定的標準上次也有人提說是不是就以台北市或是最高的作為一個標準我想這個可以來做一個解決大家各個委員提案的一些的問題我想這是一個可以思考的方向\n那你想想看嘛 這個城鄉的差距就在這個地方如果我以這一張圖來看的話 我們台南才55.854那台北市竟然是73,365那這個台南人一定是不服氣啦因為保單 這個保惠都是一樣的啊 怎麼會是\n我想那個當時強制執行法應該也是有他自己的考量才訂出這個啦齁那只是說我們保險法現在單獨立法齁我們也不希望說這樣增加整個很高的社會成本所以我覺得這部分我們剛才提到說我們對這個也是\n開放、文明、尊重我們的審查所以我請教你去年的這個草案的一個草案的一個豁免額度是多少為什麼跟這一次我因為你又做了修正嘛去年去年是做了十萬塊的那個是不是十萬塊這個去年預告的時候呢他是用各種不同的標準去列示他用列舉的比如說有些用嫌種別有些用己父別那有些用比如說他的年金的己父的樣態還用\n比如說財產保險把它排除這個就等於說在實務執行上未來可能會更為複雜因為我們現在實務上的商品不是用我們法律名詞在做歸類比如就像各位常常會看到你很多的商品叫年年如意什麼終身受險或是什麼保險它很難去歸類在我們的法律條文上所以認定上就會產生很大的困擾\n所以我們才會把它重新整理用一個最基本的概念來做所以剛才我們標準的部分大家集中在標準我覺得標準可以大家來尋求一個共識\n好我想這個主委政策是不換管而換不均所以就是說我們都會聽到了很多很多的一個聲音那在最後又請金管會讓民眾去了解就是說這個解約金額度這個很明確是就是一個很明確的一個額度那讓金管會就是堅持這個對台南人不利的這一個豁免標準可以把它就是取消掉拉平謝謝\n最後我絕對沒有針對國人任何地區有什麼不公平對待的想法我們希望解決問題謝謝謝謝主委 謝謝主席謝謝賴昭偉 謝謝彭主委\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.530 --> 00:09.431\n還有銀行局銅局長還有我們司法院那個毛法官好請彭主委銅局長還有毛法官\n\n00:11.583 --> 00:34.567\n我首先先請教我們的銀行局局長最近就是說在這個以你的工作經驗裡頭自然人的憑證最直接最方便的一個方式你自己親身感受到了是什麼是一個自然人憑證是最好用的\n\n00:35.047 --> 00:50.737\n是跟委員報告在數位存款方面它有分三類的存款那自然人憑證它是第一類存款理論上它的安全性是最高的它安全性是最高的好局長你把它用你自己本身使用過自然人憑證嗎你有沒有自然人憑證\n\n00:51.818 --> 01:15.734\n有那你最常用在哪裡報稅報稅是最好用的好現在你們把就是我們的八大公股行庫把這個治安人憑證就是陸續我們把它暫停了因為為什麼你們認為治安人憑證他可能成為詐騙集團的一個工具他會成為一個警示的一個賬戶\n\n01:17.375 --> 01:38.459\n那如果我們用這樣治標不治本的方式這樣去圍堵這個把它暫停自然人憑證的話這個方式好嗎我請那個主委來回答這個問題到底我們金管會對於自然人憑證把它暫停了這一個測試到底是好還是不好\n\n01:39.352 --> 02:02.527\n當然就是因為這是遇到問題解決問題的一種方法但是就是說我們現階段先尊重各個金融機構他們對風險的判斷但是比如說我們常講說我們在金融監理上我們常鼓勵我們金融機構不可以做完全去風險化的業務這會影響到很多的那個正常的營運活動比如說\n\n02:03.786 --> 02:18.042\n我不讓高速公路車子上去自然不會有車禍但是它也喪失了運輸的功能反而你要好好去想一件事情就是說自然平正在執行的過程當中有什麼東西我沒辦法管控的這些人我才把它做一個阻擋\n\n02:18.863 --> 02:37.248\n那當然現在他們可能還沒有找到原因我想這部分確實也看到一些問題但是我們會針對這個問題請他們好好去思考一下怎麼樣能夠橫平那主委有沒有有一個就是說你看你五月份陸續你還有八大工股行庫還要再加進來了要把它停止了\n\n02:37.708 --> 03:01.647\n好這個要停止多久那你們就是有設定一個期限如果就是說在這個半年的期限還是三個月的期限裡頭其實它已經是就是這一個警示的帳號它這個狀況變少了我們要把它恢復了有沒有這樣子的一個就是準備跟情況是那個童局長有一個他的實務的作法跟我們報告是跟我們報告\n\n03:02.327 --> 03:25.800\n那這個部分剛才如同我跟委員報告第一類的帳戶用自然人憑證這個是最安全的那銀行現在遇到的情境是詐團騙民眾把自然人憑證交付給他那現在的一個問題點是在於說我們在進行第一類帳戶的時候並沒有採視訊所以現在八大行戶我們大概初步跟他溝通未來可以補強比方說透過視訊的方式\n\n03:26.280 --> 03:44.177\n那增強他們的風險控管能力之後呢事實上這個陸陸續續都會解開來補上視訊的一個查證因為過去那個自然憑證在使用上他的安全性理論上適同本人那因為現在等於是詐團把這個自然憑證都騙到手了\n\n03:44.937 --> 04:11.502\n那現在未來可能就是導向就是說如果是不是才開用這個自然憑證再加上視訊確認是本人的這種方式你用視訊來查證的時候這個多久來執行呢這個部分因為會涉及到銀行系統整合的問題所以我們會再跟相關銀行來討論總是有一個預計的時間盡快的時間大概多久盡快時間會找銀行來開會造成大家很多的一個不方便是\n\n04:12.842 --> 04:32.758\n大概應該有個期限半年啊半年有沒有機會好我們往這個目標來走那也跟委員報告因為第三類障礙事件那個主委我想就是說在上個月那個行政院已經通過了那個金管會的這個保險法的一個修正草案那在我也那個召開了那個公聽會\n\n04:34.099 --> 04:52.612\n那相信應該是會經過了社會大眾普遍的一個討論那也達成一個初步的共識那今天保險法這個草案的一個審查其實詳細的來看的話我想今晚會已經做了很多那個周全的一個這個準備了\n\n04:54.793 --> 05:10.699\n這個優關人民的權利的保險法的一個修正其實我們都知道就是說對社會大眾影響局劇非常的大那陳磊斯堡委員剛才特別的就是說針對的就是說這一個現有的現有的超過這個100萬件的這個案件在在這個這個現階段裡頭那\n\n05:17.290 --> 05:42.475\n我剛才司法委員一直在追問你說到底有多久的時間多久的時間可以來完成就是處理全部的這個案件那你一直在講的就是說你這個半年修法通過了沒有問題可是後面是司法司法的一個那個就是這個程序的一個問題那好那我請教一下那個司法院那個那個\n\n05:45.055 --> 06:00.875\n馬法官那如果我們修法通過了以後你們這邊有多久可以來解決這些剩下來的一個案件如果修法通過了你剩下來的案件就不多啦他可能剩下兩三成那這兩三成你需要多久的時間啊\n\n06:04.208 --> 06:20.863\n委員長主席早這邊想要向委員報告的是說我們這次的修法雖然有排除掉部分的這個保險金額及種類但是在這個執行端他收到案件的時候他是還是會收到案件在想要執行實務的時候案件是\n\n06:22.301 --> 06:25.322\n你這個行政程序都跑了一輪了以後你覺得你需要多久的時間可以把後續的這些案子處理掉\n\n06:42.689 --> 06:57.985\n因為在查詢之後我們才有辦法知道說有些案件有些保險類型是沒有辦法執行的也就是說我們可能要實際上在修法後來觀察說在保險執行的速度上所以你們大概有一個預計的時間嘛因為你們會抓一個模擬的一個流程嘛\n\n06:58.285 --> 07:26.218\n就是新的案子再進來然後再經過你們的審查那這樣子大概需要多少的時間因為你知道這一次的修法其實我們就是要解決很多的一個社會問題因為這個存了一百多萬件的這個案子在這個地方如果我們今天修法沒有辦法給社會大眾一個比較明確的一個交代的話那這個好像是所有我們的努力就缺了那麼一腳了\n\n07:26.997 --> 07:53.379\n是這邊向委員報告在這次保險法修法之後我們預估案件的處理流程速度會變快但是因為實際上到底有多少的這個可以被免除執行的案件的這個比例所以有沒有辦法半年內就是說就是回到那個司法的這個體系裡頭我們有在大概可以就是掌握一個六個月八個月把你們後續的這些行政程序就是把它處理完是\n\n07:54.399 --> 08:00.364\n我們這方面我們可能還要再回去做評估那你之前都沒有評估沒有評估還來\n\n08:02.610 --> 08:27.079\n我們有評估我們的人力那你都知道我們在修法修法大家下了那麼多的一個努力了好謝謝馬法官把這個問題帶回去這個真的快速的來評估那好主委還是要跟你再探討就是說我們從保化中心的一個統計就是國人在人壽保險跟年金保險裡頭通常我們大概都是每一個人身上都會有2.3\n\n08:30.341 --> 08:54.810\n2.63張的一個人壽險那這次修正有關強制執行的部分其實還是要回來跟那個主委做一個探討就是說那我們還是覺得就是這個投保利如果就是到這個人壽險的投保利在這張圖裡頭他有特別那個就是跟大家做一個那個介紹那如果\n\n08:55.470 --> 09:17.039\n那個強制保單的一個額度那跟最低生活的一個限度其實就是要跟主委探討的就是說還是很多委員跟你探討就是說如果用每一個地區每一個人最低的一個生活會的1.2倍來計算這個三個月的金額那這個對其他除了台北市以外的這個\n\n09:18.560 --> 09:46.386\n保險人是那個不公平的就顯然他有很明顯的一個城鄉的一個差距不知道主委怎麼看這個議題呢這個也是我在接觸這個修法的時候才知道我們現在強制執行就是按照這個標準來做所以當時我們只是在直接嫁接這個強制執行的概念當我們經過這一輪的公聽以後還有各個委員的指證以後呢\n\n09:46.986 --> 10:11.785\n就剛剛委員也提到公聽會後我們回去也做很多的檢討很多的這些討論比如說針對這個額度我們基於簡正辨明剛剛也提到剛剛委員也有講到就是說我們怎麼樣能夠簡化這個認定的標準上次也有人提說是不是就以台北市或是最高的作為一個標準我想這個可以來做一個解決大家各個委員提案的一些的問題我想這是一個可以思考的方向\n\n10:12.485 --> 10:30.702\n那你想想看嘛這個城鄉的差距就在這個地方如果我以這一張圖來看的話我們台南才55.854那台北市竟然是73,365那這個台南人一定是不服氣啦因為保單這個保惠都是一樣的啊怎麼會是\n\n10:31.843 --> 10:45.517\n我想那個當時強制執行法應該也是有他自己的考量才訂出這個啦齁那只是說我們保險法現在單獨立法齁我們也不希望說這樣增加整個很高的社會成本所以我覺得這部分我們剛才提到說我們對這個也是\n\n10:47.879 --> 11:14.910\n開放、文明、尊重我們的審查所以我請教你去年的這個草案的一個草案的一個豁免額度是多少為什麼跟這一次我因為你又做了修正嘛去年去年是做了十萬塊的那個是不是十萬塊這個去年預告的時候呢他是用各種不同的標準去列示他用列舉的比如說有些用嫌種別有些用己父別那有些用比如說他的年金的己父的樣態還用\n\n11:16.631 --> 11:37.267\n比如說財產保險把它排除這個就等於說在實務執行上未來可能會更為複雜因為我們現在實務上的商品不是用我們法律名詞在做歸類比如就像各位常常會看到你很多的商品叫年年如意什麼終身受險或是什麼保險它很難去歸類在我們的法律條文上所以認定上就會產生很大的困擾\n\n11:37.967 --> 11:48.316\n所以我們才會把它重新整理用一個最基本的概念來做所以剛才我們標準的部分大家集中在標準我覺得標準可以大家來尋求一個共識\n\n11:49.554 --> 12:17.156\n好我想這個主委政策是不換管而換不均所以就是說我們都會聽到了很多很多的一個聲音那在最後又請金管會讓民眾去了解就是說這個解約金額度這個很明確是就是一個很明確的一個額度那讓金管會就是堅持這個對台南人不利的這一個豁免標準可以把它就是取消掉拉平謝謝\n\n12:18.858 --> 12:26.831\n最後我絕對沒有針對國人任何地區有什麼不公平對待的想法我們希望解決問題謝謝謝謝主委謝謝主席謝謝賴昭偉謝謝彭主委\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.53,"end":9.431,"text":"還有銀行局銅局長還有我們司法院那個毛法官好請彭主委銅局長還有毛法官"},{"start":11.583,"end":34.567,"text":"我首先先請教我們的銀行局局長最近就是說在這個以你的工作經驗裡頭自然人的憑證最直接最方便的一個方式你自己親身感受到了是什麼是一個自然人憑證是最好用的"},{"start":35.047,"end":50.737,"text":"是 跟委員報告在數位存款方面它有分三類的存款那自然人憑證它是第一類存款理論上它的安全性是最高的它安全性是最高的好 局長你把它用你自己本身使用過自然人憑證嗎你有沒有自然人憑證"},{"start":51.818,"end":75.734,"text":"有那你最常用在哪裡報稅報稅是最好用的好現在你們把就是我們的八大公股行庫把這個治安人憑證就是陸續我們把它暫停了因為為什麼你們認為治安人憑證他可能成為詐騙集團的一個工具他會成為一個警示的一個賬戶"},{"start":77.375,"end":98.459,"text":"那如果我們用這樣治標不治本的方式這樣去圍堵這個把它暫停自然人憑證的話這個方式好嗎我請那個主委來回答這個問題到底我們金管會對於自然人憑證把它暫停了這一個測試到底是好還是不好"},{"start":99.352,"end":122.527,"text":"當然就是因為這是遇到問題解決問題的一種方法但是就是說我們現階段先尊重各個金融機構他們對風險的判斷但是比如說我們常講說我們在金融監理上我們常鼓勵我們金融機構不可以做完全去風險化的業務這會影響到很多的那個正常的營運活動比如說"},{"start":123.786,"end":138.042,"text":"我不讓高速公路車子上去自然不會有車禍但是它也喪失了運輸的功能反而你要好好去想一件事情就是說自然平正在執行的過程當中有什麼東西我沒辦法管控的這些人我才把它做一個阻擋"},{"start":138.863,"end":157.248,"text":"那當然現在他們可能還沒有找到原因我想這部分確實也看到一些問題但是我們會針對這個問題請他們好好去思考一下怎麼樣能夠橫平那主委有沒有有一個就是說你看你五月份陸續你還有八大工股行庫還要再加進來了要把它停止了"},{"start":157.708,"end":181.647,"text":"好 這個要停止多久那你們就是有設定一個期限如果就是說在這個半年的期限還是三個月的期限裡頭其實它已經是就是這一個警示的帳號它這個狀況變少了我們要把它恢復了有沒有這樣子的一個就是準備跟情況是 那個童局長有一個他的實務的作法跟我們報告是 跟我們報告"},{"start":182.327,"end":205.8,"text":"那這個部分剛才如同我跟委員報告第一類的帳戶用自然人憑證這個是最安全的那銀行現在遇到的情境是詐團騙民眾把自然人憑證交付給他那現在的一個問題點是在於說我們在進行第一類帳戶的時候並沒有採視訊所以現在八大行戶我們大概初步跟他溝通未來可以補強比方說透過視訊的方式"},{"start":206.28,"end":224.177,"text":"那增強他們的風險控管能力之後呢事實上這個陸陸續續都會解開來補上視訊的一個查證因為過去那個自然憑證在使用上他的安全性理論上適同本人那因為現在等於是詐團把這個自然憑證都騙到手了"},{"start":224.937,"end":251.502,"text":"那現在未來可能就是導向就是說如果是不是才開用這個自然憑證再加上視訊確認是本人的這種方式你用視訊來查證的時候這個多久來執行呢這個部分因為會涉及到銀行系統整合的問題所以我們會再跟相關銀行來討論總是有一個預計的時間盡快的時間大概多久盡快時間會找銀行來開會造成大家很多的一個不方便是"},{"start":252.842,"end":272.758,"text":"大概應該有個期限 半年啊 半年有沒有機會好 我們往這個目標來走 那也跟委員報告 因為第三類障礙事件那個主委 我想就是說在上個月那個行政院已經通過了那個金管會的這個保險法的一個修正草案那在我也那個召開了那個公聽會"},{"start":274.099,"end":292.612,"text":"那相信應該是會經過了社會大眾普遍的一個討論那也達成一個初步的共識那今天保險法這個草案的一個審查其實詳細的來看的話我想今晚會已經做了很多那個周全的一個這個準備了"},{"start":294.793,"end":310.699,"text":"這個優關人民的權利的保險法的一個修正其實我們都知道就是說對社會大眾影響局劇非常的大那陳磊斯堡委員剛才特別的就是說針對的就是說這一個現有的現有的超過這個100萬件的這個案件在在這個這個現階段裡頭那"},{"start":317.29,"end":342.475,"text":"我剛才司法委員一直在追問你說到底有多久的時間多久的時間可以來完成就是處理全部的這個案件那你一直在講的就是說你這個半年修法通過了沒有問題可是後面是司法司法的一個那個就是這個程序的一個問題那好那我請教一下那個司法院那個那個"},{"start":345.055,"end":360.875,"text":"馬法官那如果我們修法通過了以後你們這邊有多久可以來解決這些剩下來的一個案件如果修法通過了你剩下來的案件就不多啦他可能剩下兩三成那這兩三成你需要多久的時間啊"},{"start":364.208,"end":380.863,"text":"委員長 主席早這邊想要向委員報告的是說我們這次的修法雖然有排除掉部分的這個保險金額及種類但是在這個執行端他收到案件的時候他是還是會收到案件在想要執行實務的時候案件是"},{"start":382.301,"end":385.322,"text":"你這個行政程序都跑了一輪了以後你覺得你需要多久的時間可以把後續的這些案子處理掉"},{"start":402.689,"end":417.985,"text":"因為在查詢之後我們才有辦法知道說有些案件有些保險類型是沒有辦法執行的也就是說我們可能要實際上在修法後來觀察說在保險執行的速度上所以你們大概有一個預計的時間嘛因為你們會抓一個模擬的一個流程嘛"},{"start":418.285,"end":446.218,"text":"就是新的案子再進來然後再經過你們的審查那這樣子大概需要多少的時間因為你知道這一次的修法其實我們就是要解決很多的一個社會問題因為這個存了一百多萬件的這個案子在這個地方如果我們今天修法沒有辦法給社會大眾一個比較明確的一個交代的話那這個好像是所有我們的努力就缺了那麼一腳了"},{"start":446.997,"end":473.379,"text":"是這邊向委員報告在這次保險法修法之後我們預估案件的處理流程速度會變快但是因為實際上到底有多少的這個可以被免除執行的案件的這個比例所以有沒有辦法半年內就是說就是回到那個司法的這個體系裡頭我們有在大概可以就是掌握一個六個月八個月把你們後續的這些行政程序就是把它處理完是"},{"start":474.399,"end":480.364,"text":"我們這方面我們可能還要再回去做評估那你之前都沒有評估 沒有評估還來"},{"start":482.61,"end":507.079,"text":"我們有評估我們的人力那你都知道我們在修法修法大家下了那麼多的一個努力了好謝謝馬法官把這個問題帶回去這個真的快速的來評估那好 主委還是要跟你再探討就是說我們從保化中心的一個統計就是國人在人壽保險跟年金保險裡頭通常我們大概都是每一個人身上都會有2.3"},{"start":510.341,"end":534.81,"text":"2.63張的一個人壽險那這次修正有關強制執行的部分其實還是要回來跟那個主委做一個探討就是說那我們還是覺得就是這個投保利如果就是到這個人壽險的投保利在這張圖裡頭他有特別那個就是跟大家做一個那個介紹那如果"},{"start":535.47,"end":557.039,"text":"那個強制保單的一個額度那跟最低生活的一個限度其實就是要跟主委探討的就是說還是很多委員跟你探討就是說如果用每一個地區每一個人最低的一個生活會的1.2倍來計算這個三個月的金額那這個對其他除了台北市以外的這個"},{"start":558.56,"end":586.386,"text":"保險人是那個不公平的就顯然他有很明顯的一個城鄉的一個差距不知道主委怎麼看這個議題呢這個也是我在接觸這個修法的時候才知道我們現在強制執行就是按照這個標準來做所以當時我們只是在直接嫁接這個強制執行的概念當我們經過這一輪的公聽以後還有各個委員的指證以後呢"},{"start":586.986,"end":611.785,"text":"就剛剛委員也提到公聽會後我們回去也做很多的檢討很多的這些討論比如說針對這個額度我們基於簡正辨明剛剛也提到剛剛委員也有講到就是說我們怎麼樣能夠簡化這個認定的標準上次也有人提說是不是就以台北市或是最高的作為一個標準我想這個可以來做一個解決大家各個委員提案的一些的問題我想這是一個可以思考的方向"},{"start":612.485,"end":630.702,"text":"那你想想看嘛 這個城鄉的差距就在這個地方如果我以這一張圖來看的話 我們台南才55.854那台北市竟然是73,365那這個台南人一定是不服氣啦因為保單 這個保惠都是一樣的啊 怎麼會是"},{"start":631.843,"end":645.517,"text":"我想那個當時強制執行法應該也是有他自己的考量才訂出這個啦齁那只是說我們保險法現在單獨立法齁我們也不希望說這樣增加整個很高的社會成本所以我覺得這部分我們剛才提到說我們對這個也是"},{"start":647.879,"end":674.91,"text":"開放、文明、尊重我們的審查所以我請教你去年的這個草案的一個草案的一個豁免額度是多少為什麼跟這一次我因為你又做了修正嘛去年去年是做了十萬塊的那個是不是十萬塊這個去年預告的時候呢他是用各種不同的標準去列示他用列舉的比如說有些用嫌種別有些用己父別那有些用比如說他的年金的己父的樣態還用"},{"start":676.631,"end":697.267,"text":"比如說財產保險把它排除這個就等於說在實務執行上未來可能會更為複雜因為我們現在實務上的商品不是用我們法律名詞在做歸類比如就像各位常常會看到你很多的商品叫年年如意什麼終身受險或是什麼保險它很難去歸類在我們的法律條文上所以認定上就會產生很大的困擾"},{"start":697.967,"end":708.316,"text":"所以我們才會把它重新整理用一個最基本的概念來做所以剛才我們標準的部分大家集中在標準我覺得標準可以大家來尋求一個共識"},{"start":709.554,"end":737.156,"text":"好我想這個主委政策是不換管而換不均所以就是說我們都會聽到了很多很多的一個聲音那在最後又請金管會讓民眾去了解就是說這個解約金額度這個很明確是就是一個很明確的一個額度那讓金管會就是堅持這個對台南人不利的這一個豁免標準可以把它就是取消掉拉平謝謝"},{"start":738.858,"end":746.831,"text":"最後我絕對沒有針對國人任何地區有什麼不公平對待的想法我們希望解決問題謝謝謝謝主委 謝謝主席謝謝賴昭偉 謝謝彭主委"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":429,"blocks":[["賴委員惠員：（10時19分）謝謝主席，有請金管會主委、銀行局童局長及司法院毛法官。"],["主席：請彭主委、童局長及毛法官。"],["賴委員惠員：首先，我先請教……"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["賴委員惠員：謝謝主委。先請教銀行局局長，以你的工作經驗中，自然人憑證是最直接、最方便的一個方式，你自己親身感受到什麼樣的自然人憑證是最好用的？"],["童局長政彰：跟委員報告，在數位存款方面，它有分三類的存款，自然人憑證是第一類存款，理論上它的安全性是最高的……"],["賴委員惠員：它的安全性是最高的？"],["童局長政彰：它安全性是最高的，對！"],["賴委員惠員：好，局長，你自己本身使用過自然人憑證嗎？你有沒有自然人憑證？"],["童局長政彰：有！"],["賴委員惠員：有嘛？你最常用在哪裡？"],["童局長政彰：是。報稅。"],["賴委員惠員：報稅是最好用的。好，現在八大公股行庫把自然人憑證陸續暫停了，因為你們認為自然人憑證可能成為詐騙集團的工具，它會成為一個警示帳戶，如果我們用治標不治本的方式，這樣去圍堵、暫停自然人憑證的話，這個方式好嗎？我請主委來回答這個問題，到底金管會對於把自然人憑證暫停的措施，到底是好還是不好？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然這是因為遇到問題，解決問題的一種方法。"],["賴委員惠員：是。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，我們現階段先尊重各個金融機構對風險的判斷，比如說，我們常講在金融監理上，我們常鼓勵金融機構不可以做完全去風險化的業務，這會影響到很多正常的營運活動，比如說，我不讓高速公路有車子上去，自然不會有車禍，但是它也喪失了運輸的功能，反而你要好好去想一件事情，自然人憑證在執行的過程當中，有什麼東西是我沒辦法管控的，這些人我才把他做一個阻擋，當然現在他們可能還沒有找到原因，我想這部分確實也看到一些問題，但是我們會針對這個問題，請他們好好去思考一下怎麼樣能夠衡平。"],["賴委員惠員：好，主委，你看在5月份，陸續八大公股行庫還要再加進來、要把它停止了，這個要停止多久？你們是否有設定一個期限，如果在這個半年的期限還是三個月的期限裡，警示的帳號這種狀況變少了，我們要把它恢復了，有沒有這樣的準備跟計畫？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，童局長有一個實務的作法，請他跟委員報告。"],["賴委員惠員：請童局長。"],["童局長政彰：跟委員報告，這個部分如同剛才我跟委員報告的，第一類的帳戶用自然人憑證，這個是最安全的，銀行現在遇到的情境是詐團騙民眾把自然人憑證交付給他，現在的一個問題點是在於，我們在進行第一類帳戶的時候，並沒有採視訊，所以我們大概初步跟八大行庫溝通，未來是可以補強，比方說，透過視訊的方式，增強他們的風險控管能力之後，事實上，這個陸陸續續都會解開來了。"],["賴委員惠員：補上視訊的一個查證，是不是？"],["童局長政彰：就是要視訊，因為過去自然人憑證在使用上它的安全性，理論上視同本人，現在等於是詐團把自然人憑證都騙到手了，未來可能會導向是否採用自然人憑證，再加上視訊，確認是本人的這種方式，來增加風險管理。"],["賴委員惠員：使用視訊來查證，這個多久來執行呢？"],["童局長政彰：這個部分因為會涉及到銀行系統整合的問題，所以我們會再跟相關的銀行來討論。"],["賴委員惠員：大概多久？總是有一個預計的時間。"],["童局長政彰：我們會在儘快的時間……"],["賴委員惠員：儘快的時間大概是多久？"],["童局長政彰：儘快的時間會找銀行來開會。"],["賴委員惠員：因為這個已經造成大家很多的不方便，你大概應該有一個期限？半年呢？半年有沒有機會？"],["童局長政彰：好，我們往這個目標來走，也跟委員報告，因為第三類帳戶……"],["賴委員惠員：好，謝謝局長。主委，在上個月行政院已經通過金管會保險法的修正草案，我也召開了公聽會，相信應該經過社會大眾普遍地討論，也達成一個初步的共識，今天對保險法草案的審查，其實詳細來看的話，我想金管會已經做很多周全的準備了。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["賴委員惠員：攸關人民權利的保險法修正，我們都知道對社會大眾的影響非常的大，賴士葆委員剛才一直追問你的是，在現有超過100萬件案件的階段裡，到底需要多久的時間可以處理完全部的案件，你一直在講的就是這個半年修法通過了，沒有問題，而後面是司法程序的問題。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["賴委員惠員：好，那我請教一下司法院毛法官，如果我們修法通過了以後，你們這邊需要多久可以解決這些剩下來的案件？如果修法通過，剩下來的案件就不多了啦，可能剩下兩、三成，這兩、三成你需要多久的時間呢？"],["毛法官彥程：委員早、主席早。這邊要向委員報告的是，我們這次的修法雖然有排除掉部分保險的金額及種類，但是執行端還是會收到案件，在強制執行的實務上，案件是債權人來聲請，他的聲請可能是要執行所有的壽險，也就是說，這個案件進來之後，還是要經過一定查詢的時間，然後……。"],["賴委員惠員：好，這個行政程序都跑一輪了以後，你覺得你需要多久的時間可以把後續的這些案子處理掉呢？"],["毛法官彥程：因為在查詢之後，我們才有辦法知道有些保險類型是沒有辦法執行的，也就是說，我們可能要實際上在修法後再來觀察在保險執行速度上的減少……"],["賴委員惠員：所以你們應該會有一個預計的時間嘛！因為你們會抓一個模擬的流程嘛，就是新的案子進來，然後再經過你們的審查，這樣子大概需要多少的時間？因為我們這一次的修法其實就是要解決很多的社會問題，因為現階段有一百多萬件的案子，如果今天我們修法沒有辦法給社會大眾一個比較明確的交代的話，好像所有我們的努力就缺了一角了。"],["毛法官彥程：是，這邊向委員報告，在這次保險法修法之後，我們預估案件的處理流程速度會變快，但是因為實際上到底有多少可以被免除執行的案件的比例……"],["賴委員惠員：所以有沒有辦法在半年內回到司法的體系裡頭？大概可以掌握六個月、八個月的時間，把你們後續這一些行政程序處理完？"],["毛法官彥程：報告委員，這方面我們可能還要再回去做評估，因為我們先前是……"],["賴委員惠員：那你之前都沒有評估？沒有評估還來！"],["毛法官彥程：我們有評估我們的人力，然後……"],["賴委員惠員：你就知道我們在修法，這個修法大家做了那麼多的努力了啊！好，謝謝毛法官，請把這個問題帶回去，真的要快速地來評估。","主委，還是要跟你再探討，根據保發中心的統計，國人在人壽保險跟年金保險方面，我們每一個人身上大概會有2.63張的人壽險保單。這次修正有關強制執行的部分，其實還是要回來跟主委做一個探討，針對人壽險及年金險的投保率，在這張圖上有特別框起來讓大家看一下，而強制保單的額度跟最低生活的限度，就是要跟主委探討的部分，其實也有很多委員跟你探討了，就是如果用每個地區每人每月最低生活費1.2倍計算的三個月金額為標準，這對其他除臺北市以外的保險人是不公平的，因為顯然有很明顯的城鄉差距，不知道主委怎麼看這個議題呢？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，這個也是我在接觸修法的時候才知道我們現在的強制執行是按照這個標準來做，當時我們只是直接嫁接這個強制執行的概念。當然，經過這一輪的公聽及各個委員的指正以後，剛才委員也有提到，在公聽會後，我們回去也做很多的檢討與討論，比如針對這個額度，我們基於簡政便民，剛才吳委員也有講到的就是我們要怎麼樣能夠簡化這個認定的標準，上次也有人提到是不是就以臺北市或是最高的作為一個標準，我想這也是一個可以解決各個委員提案所提一些問題的思考方向。"],["賴委員惠員：是嘛，你想想看，城鄉的差距就在這個地方，如果以這一張圖來看的話，我們臺南才5萬5,854元，而臺北市居然是7萬3,365元，這樣臺南人一定是不服氣的，因為保單的保費都是一樣的啊，怎麼會是……"],["彭主任委員金隆：我想當時強制執行法應該也是有它自己的考量才訂出這個標準啦，只是說現在保險法單獨立法，我們也不希望增加很高的社會成本，所以剛才有提到了，我們對這個部分也是開放的，我們也尊重審查的結果。"],["賴委員惠員：主委，我請教你，去年這個草案的豁免額度是多少？為什麼這一次……因為你又做了修正嘛，去年的數字是不是10萬塊？"],["彭主任委員金隆：去年預告的時候是用各種不同的標準去列示，是用列舉的，比如說有些用險種別、有些用給付別，有些是用年金給付的樣態，比如財產保險把它排除，這個等於在實務執行上未來可能會更為複雜，因為我們現在實務上的商品並不是用我們的法律名詞在做歸類，就像各位常常會看到的，很多商品叫年年如意終身壽險或是什麼什麼保險，這很難去歸類在我們的法律條文上，所以認定上就會產生很大的困擾，因此我們才會把它重新整理，用最基本的概念來做，所以……"],["賴委員惠員：好，我想……"],["彭主任委員金隆：剛剛委員這樣講，我們的標準部分，剛剛大家很多問題都是集中在標準，我覺得標準的部分大家可以來尋求一個共識啦。"],["賴委員惠員：好，主委，政策是不患寡而患不均，我們都會聽到很多很多的聲音，最後也要請金管會應該要讓民眾了解，這個解約金額度就是一個很明確的額度，也請金管會不要堅持這個對臺南人不利的豁免標準，可以把它取消掉、拉平。謝謝。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我絕對沒有針對國人在任何地區有什麼不公平對待的想法啦，我們希望解決問題，謝謝。"],["賴委員惠員：好，謝謝主委、謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝賴召委，謝謝彭主委。"],["主席（賴委員惠員）：接著請鍾佳濱委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":314,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-10","speakers":["賴惠員","黃珊珊","羅智強","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李彥秀","鍾佳濱","顏寬恒","羅明才","李坤城","黃國昌","陳玉珍","王世堅","林思銘","羅廷瑋","陳培瑜","徐富癸","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2025-04-30"],"gazette_id":"1144301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144301_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查「保險法」15案：一、行政院函請審議、本院委員蔡其昌等19人、委員羅廷瑋等16人、委員\n王世堅等18人、委員徐富癸等16人、委員蔡其昌等19人、委員蔡易餘等18人、委員林思銘等18人\n分別擬具「保險法部分條文修正草案」等8案；二、本院委員鍾佳濱等21人擬具「保險法增訂第\n一百二十三條之一條文草案」案；三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員陳超明等16人、委員羅智強等\n19人、委員李坤城等23人、委員賴瑞隆等17人、委員王美惠等17人分別擬具「保險法增訂第一百\n七十四條之二及第一百七十四條之三條文草案」等6案","agenda_id":"1144301_00006"}}}