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{\"word\": \"北\", \"start\": 957.287, \"end\": 957.427, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 957.427, \"end\": 957.528, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 957.528, \"end\": 957.768, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 957.768, \"end\": 957.868, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 957.868, \"end\": 957.968, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"溝\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 957.968, \"end\": 957.988, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,291 --> 00:00:14,072\n好主席麻煩請陳士凱部長好那個交通部陳部長民航局局長還有我們運安會主委好那個民航局何局長來運安會林主委來高董事長\n\n2\n00:00:15,049 --> 00:00:43,985\n我先很快的來就教因為這一次的這個4月13號華航的飛機的一個狀況剛剛高董事長也說明很清楚但是我想還是要請教這次運安會你的報告講是說非屬重大運輸事故範圍所以為立案調查但本席之前有提過其實運安會應該是一個防範於未然我們當然不希望說每一次是重大事故之後我們才來去做相關的調查如果可以我們在\n\n3\n00:00:45,792 --> 00:01:03,317\n預先預防的一個情況下來去做一個調查跟了解是不是會更加的妥適來運安會是不是說明一下委員講的沒有錯是如果會預防防範以未然這是最好的那麼這樣子它對航空機實質沒有損害而且沒有那我們有沒有看到真正的lowdata\n\n4\n00:01:04,862 --> 00:01:22,641\n來部長或者是我們院安會因為現在是民航局有相關監理機關進行調查那現在華航告訴我們今天給我們的一個簡報是相對比較簡陋只有跟我們講說天氣其他的機場都是不行的那請教不管是我們現在民航局也好或是院安會也好有沒有看到當天的一個確實的一個數據\n\n5\n00:01:25,599 --> 00:01:51,365\n跟委員報告基本上民航局這邊已經訪談了相關的駕駛跟公司那有關派遣的相關天氣資料我們已經拿到也有看到相關的數據當天的數據狀況當天的我們還要再調還要再調對因為相關Meta資料現在4月30號了4月13號兩個多禮拜以前的事情那現在今天我們做專案報告結果你跟我們講是說你的資料還要再調\n\n6\n00:01:52,265 --> 00:02:11,762\n我們的資料就是我們還要因為根據黃航剛剛講的當天因為機場的前一個小時是包含那個是由機場端來報就是新加坡、拉夫、自民等等所以這些資料基本上我們也要經過判讀跟相關的時間然後包含當天的操作跟防航的地點來部長本席\n\n7\n00:02:13,308 --> 00:02:38,518\n也過去也是華航的常客我搭最多的就是華航因為我覺得是值得信賴也是我們國家的航空那但是在飛安事件上來講在這次的事故裡面很多人都會懷疑不是以飛安為最優先的考量而是以維修方便所以不是選擇最近的胡志明市的機場或者是馬尼拉機場而是選擇回來到我們台灣的小港機場小港機場不在我們的這個飛行計畫裡面\n\n8\n00:02:39,998 --> 00:02:56,774\n是不是是報告員本來是沒有在飛行計畫裡面那當時我所理解的是當時的駕駛他是有判斷鄰近的那幾個機場的天氣的狀況包含新加坡在內包含馬尼拉那也包含越南那我們有沒有看到確實的當天\n\n9\n00:02:59,837 --> 00:03:16,714\n這幾個機場的氣候狀況報告委員剛剛還是華航給我們的資料我們就照單全收在華航的報告的內容其實已經有講到氣候的狀況是但我們有沒有主動去了解這個部分我們在調資料當中銀行局正在調資料當中這個我會要求大家其實真的沒有那麼難調來我們先看一下\n\n10\n00:03:17,973 --> 00:03:34,802\n當天本時也去查了一下當天確實新加坡下午的地方有可能會有雷陣雨對飛航有可能有安全的疑慮來當你也看到胡志明市胡志明市整體的氣象降雨量少以及馬尼拉\n\n11\n00:03:37,342 --> 00:03:57,182\n4月13號當天的一個氣象大致穩定但午後可能會有局部雷陣雨我想這個是專業的判斷本席都可以請同仁先去找出相關的資料那更重要的是專業的判斷你這個資料是飛航需求的資料嗎專業判斷對所以本席才提到因為飛航需求的資料需要前一個小時\n\n12\n00:03:57,702 --> 00:04:16,190\n沒錯所以部長本席才會提醒你如果說兩個禮拜之後到現在你們都沒有掌握資料你們只是片面的聽信華航提供的資料我覺得這不夠專業也沒有盡到監管機關的責任報告委員氣象資料民航局有掌握不是沒有掌握但是監管機關是誰\n\n13\n00:04:18,359 --> 00:04:27,521\n他有掌握啊他有掌握本席部長你剛剛沒有辦法回答我的問題其實我說實在話哪個問題沒辦法回答部長你在反質詢是不是沒有我沒有在反質詢哪個問題沒辦法回答部長你就針對問題是啊沒有問題啊好不好來來來部長本席現在在\n\n14\n00:04:38,379 --> 00:05:04,747\n要求的是交通部站在中央主管機關應該要看到我們各飛航的專業來協助飛航怎麼樣做經濟而華航主要在這一次的事件裡面讓外界質疑的聲音到現在沒有少過即便今天講得如此的好聽但是我說了到現在兩個禮拜之後到目前為止你們的飛航紀錄以及相關的航空資訊到目前為止你們沒有掌握\n\n15\n00:05:05,782 --> 00:05:28,302\n既然沒有掌握本席只是要求說是不是應該要去做一個管理以及立案調查去真真正正的了解說當天的狀況是不是符合現場的判斷報告委員民航局說他們有掌握啦只是說資料要分析需要再分析相關的資料他們真的有掌握啦不是沒掌握跟委員報告\n\n16\n00:05:29,583 --> 00:05:37,291\n如果說要這樣硬凹的話我覺得這不是一個做實現的做法那我可以請民航局提供資料給你們來我們再來\n\n17\n00:05:39,022 --> 00:06:05,350\n民航局什麼時候會給國人一個清楚明白的交代針對這一次的華航的判斷的一個事件因為外界大家都在質疑其實我今天有很多的議題啊部長我說實在話我很希望能夠心平氣和跟你就專業論專業今天是在做後續的檢討我們今天沒有發生任何的人為意外我覺得這是萬幸但是萬幸完之後我們要去釐清說到底\n\n18\n00:06:06,310 --> 00:06:27,677\n華航的決策是不是站在乘客的安全為最高指導標準還是說站在他們的航空的維護的安全方面你可以搖頭那就代表請你用數據以及用你們的報告專業的來說服我們而不是到現在兩個禮拜之後給出了我們這一份只有華航單方面的一個片面資料\n\n19\n00:06:29,677 --> 00:06:53,009\n來再來報告委員民航局的報告是用書面的他不是來台上報告但他有提供書面您可以參考他的書面報告黃航有沒有看到這一個投書有有看到黃航剛剛跟我們講得非常的好聽喔說有包括這個這個回程的作業支持主動跟旅客致意表達建議等等的\n\n20\n00:06:53,749 --> 00:07:20,528\n那我們來看一下這個是其中一個投書過去一個禮拜非常煎熬始終沒有任何正式的說明或者是更新以乘客安全當時的機上廣播以乘客安全為優先的決定感覺像是以公私利益為出發點這是大多數乘客的感受最後收到的希望能夠索取一個延誤證明但最後收到的是一個簡單的備忘錄\n\n21\n00:07:22,096 --> 00:07:42,907\n沒有忽略台北起飛13.5個小時的過程以及收到的是一個300塊的餐券跟金沙巧克力華航你的資料報告說明的很完整看起來完整\n\n22\n00:07:44,133 --> 00:07:54,465\n最大的關懷處理最大的誠意速度全力處理協助平安續行但實際上乘客的感受是這樣子天差地別這個\n\n23\n00:07:59,100 --> 00:08:21,779\n這對姐弟我們有掌握,在新加坡人當時飛機回航的時候,在高雄我們就盡力的供應飲料還有餐食這些東西就是為了準備下一次的起飛後來我們當天下午就又派了一架加班機從台北到高雄,然後再把高雄載到新加坡去\n\n24\n00:08:22,941 --> 00:08:37,538\n這個我們真的不是用那個航機維修的那個考量假如真的航機維修我乾脆就飛到台北就好啦我根本不需要到高雄然後再派飛機上這個大費周章所以基本上真的是底下的那個\n\n25\n00:08:40,261 --> 00:09:06,042\n東南亞的這些天氣不是很好所以我們華航的說明我覺得還是要由主管機關這邊來做一個認定因為這就代表是我們要看到一個問題今天真的是不幸中的大幸沒有造成任何的人員傷亡但我每一次在交通委員會我都講如果說要等到人員傷亡要等到後面全都排排站有很多攝影機的時候那代表我們出大事\n\n26\n00:09:07,028 --> 00:09:12,766\n不要有任何事情最好所以在這件例子上面民航局什麼時候能夠再做釐清來給國人確認\n\n27\n00:09:15,780 --> 00:09:43,762\n跟委員報告因為剛剛所提到的相關關心的天氣資料也好飛航的過程組員的判斷等等因為民航局都要根據剛剛委員所提的我們自己調查到的資料而不是單憑華航的提供的資料所以這個部分我們需要花一些時間在做處理那是不是委員這邊可以給我們如果是初步報告因為一般來講我們是完成完整的報告那如果初步的報告我們是不是建議可以一個月\n\n28\n00:09:44,158 --> 00:10:09,528\n好一個月來部長再來請教我們上上禮拜有討論到美國關稅的問題那您也提到是說對於觀光業以及運輸業航運業有很大的衝擊那現在行政院提出了4100億本期兩個禮拜前在這邊有跟您就教交通部有沒有針對這個部分特別條例有爭取任何行政院這邊的支持那現在4100億出來啦本來的880億\n\n29\n00:10:13,550 --> 00:10:28,424\n沒有交通部那多增加了三四倍到4100億到目前為止沒有看到細項那我想請教4100億裡面交通部不管是觀光的部分不管是航運的部分佔了多少報告委員我們有個別跟這個航運業界空運業界\n\n30\n00:10:30,246 --> 00:10:50,242\n還有觀光業界大家都有辦過座談會那目前看起來海運跟航空的影響還沒有很大所以這個部分目前應該就是有一些調整性的東西跟彈性的東西我們有提供給業者給他們協助那另外觀光業界我昨天有跟他們座談我有看到新聞也有出來但我現在問的問題部長深度問題回答問題好4100億\n\n31\n00:10:55,006 --> 00:11:17,483\n有支持產業930億有國土安全認証1500億有照顧民生1670億這個是額外因應美國關稅那你兩個禮拜前在這邊也詢答說有特別講到觀光產業有可能會有非常大的衝擊我們那時候也說料底要從寬所以如果說有任何支持資源的力量也應該要來預先掌握\n\n32\n00:11:18,143 --> 00:11:29,515\n那4100億裡面有沒有交通的部分目前我們跟這個業者大家座談跟一些協助的方案的討論我們目前用觀光的基金應該都還能夠應付所以4100億裡面是沒有交通觀光\n\n33\n00:11:33,971 --> 00:11:48,103\n你們做決策要負責啦來最後我想今天很重要的部分還是在於是安全的部分那有兩個我再佔用一小段時間啦有兩個最近的新聞我覺得這個東西也是見為之助\n\n34\n00:11:49,284 --> 00:12:13,204\n部長一個是有行人要過馬路那高舉雙手舉了雙手意思就代表說要過馬路那結果這一個畫面裡面他可能沒有辦法播放影片那這個畫面裡面連續過了十幾台車都沒有停讓那之後才讓這個行人過去這是一個部分另外下一個部分\n\n35\n00:12:14,145 --> 00:12:37,260\n因為行人在過馬路而導致於救護車已經有警示燈的救護車他要等行人過馬路而救護車才啟動那再加上早上新聞又推播我們交通部的小編跟剛剛部長一樣也是很強悍\n\n36\n00:12:39,035 --> 00:13:02,283\n這個很嗆就是在交通部的很嗆是講道理很嗆不會用嗆的啦很好部長我們希望就事論事就專業論專業啦所以一樣就是說在現在的執法已經我們為了要擺脫行人地獄一年多的時間但難免在社會上有遇到很多的狀況每個人都會以本位主義為考量\n\n37\n00:13:04,026 --> 00:13:07,455\n駕駛用路人以及行人等等的部分本席認為應該都是\n\n38\n00:13:10,869 --> 00:13:36,791\n我們不能說偏廢權益都要互相尊重那在這兩個案例裡面部長看到什麼樣的狀況報告委員大家像委員剛剛所提到的大家對於大家平等的狀況的共識我認為這個社會還不足啦那但是對交通部來說最重要的行人的安全因為這關係到人命這個部分我們會去要求所以剛剛那個影片雖然沒有辦法播放但我有看過那桃園市政府也有針對\n\n39\n00:13:38,332 --> 00:14:03,770\n這十幾台車有裁罰這個部分有裁罰那針對行人的部分其實我知道因為這個我們現在開始尊重行人之後有些行人的違規的狀況我們也都看得到那這個部分該罰其實也都有罰那最近這兩年我們在行人違規的開罰的這個數量其實也增加了不少因為現在大家都有行車紀錄器如果有行車紀錄器的檢舉這些該罰其實也都會罰\n\n40\n00:14:06,392 --> 00:14:26,754\n開罰是最好的做法嗎其實不是大家的觀念是最重要的所以我們觀念的提升以及怎麼樣用制度的設計讓更多人能夠清楚明白了解一個過馬路每天大家都要做的事情的一個順暢本席只提一個這一個我覺得真的是可以研究討論\n\n41\n00:14:28,988 --> 00:14:45,816\n粉絲專頁上面也拍到日本有一個畫面他是在很多的價值朋友也抱怨就是說有看到行人在路邊的時候他不確定這行人到底要不要過馬路也因此他不確定說要不要停等那行人如果說他已經有他的習慣譬如說舉手代表是過馬路\n\n42\n00:14:47,512 --> 00:15:07,252\n另外一個部分像日本他有一個有趣的設計是說他有多畫一個過馬路時候的停等區如果說行人站在那上面代表他就是要準備過馬路那那個時候駕駛就應該要停下來讓行人過但如果說他不是停在那個地方的話可能他只是在路邊等朋友\n\n43\n00:15:07,873 --> 00:15:17,712\n他就不一定要停下來我覺得光這樣子的一個部分也許在幾個路口可以做事辦的方式非號之路口是可以這麼做的\n\n44\n00:15:18,715 --> 00:15:47,945\n我們可以來示範我們可以來示範我覺得這是蠻好的方法但我本席提醒一下像這個他是畫在馬路上如果說畫的話應該是要畫在行人畫裡面一點是畫裡面一點不然我覺得我看了也覺得說這個小朋友在馬路上側邊好像也有點危險為了要去那邊停等在日本可能比較安全在台灣可能比較危險好所以部長針對這個部分如果說能夠來示範什麼時候能夠來推行或說至少來做一個研擬跟規劃設計省到找個地方來做好不好\n\n45\n00:15:48,956 --> 00:15:57,988\n我們省道很快速的來示範幾個路口我想還是要跟地方政府溝通之後來去做推行新北市跟台北市我們來跟他們溝通\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1291\t14072\t好 主席麻煩請陳士凱部長好 那個交通部陳部長民航局局長還有我們運安會主委好 那個民航局何局長 來運安會林主委 來高董事長\n15049\t43985\t我先很快的來就教因為這一次的這個4月13號華航的飛機的一個狀況剛剛高董事長也說明很清楚但是我想還是要請教這次運安會你的報告講是說非屬重大運輸事故範圍所以為立案調查但本席之前有提過其實運安會應該是一個防範於未然我們當然不希望說每一次是重大事故之後我們才來去做相關的調查如果可以我們在\n45792\t63317\t預先預防的一個情況下來去做一個調查跟了解是不是會更加的妥適來 運安會是不是說明一下委員講的沒有錯是如果會預防防範以未然這是最好的那麼這樣子它對航空機實質沒有損害而且沒有那我們有沒有看到真正的low data\n64862\t82641\t來 部長或者是我們院安會因為現在是民航局有相關監理機關進行調查那現在華航告訴我們今天給我們的一個簡報是相對比較簡陋只有跟我們講說天氣其他的機場都是不行的那請教不管是我們現在民航局也好或是院安會也好有沒有看到當天的一個確實的一個數據\n85599\t111365\t跟委員報告 基本上民航局這邊已經訪談了相關的駕駛跟公司那有關派遣的相關天氣資料我們已經拿到也有看到相關的數據 當天的數據狀況當天的我們還要再調還要再調對 因為相關Meta資料現在4月30號了 4月13號兩個多禮拜以前的事情那現在今天我們做專案報告結果你跟我們講是說你的資料還要再調\n112265\t131762\t我們的資料就是我們還要因為根據黃航剛剛講的當天因為機場的前一個小時是包含那個是由機場端來報就是新加坡、拉夫、自民等等所以這些資料基本上我們也要經過判讀跟相關的時間然後包含當天的操作跟防航的地點來 部長本席\n133308\t158518\t也過去也是華航的常客我搭最多的就是華航因為我覺得是值得信賴也是我們國家的航空那但是在飛安事件上來講在這次的事故裡面很多人都會懷疑不是以飛安為最優先的考量而是以維修方便所以不是選擇最近的胡志明市的機場或者是馬尼拉機場而是選擇回來到我們台灣的小港機場小港機場不在我們的這個飛行計畫裡面\n159998\t176774\t是不是是 報告員本來是沒有在飛行計畫裡面那當時我所理解的是當時的駕駛他是有判斷鄰近的那幾個機場的天氣的狀況包含新加坡在內包含馬尼拉那也包含越南那我們有沒有看到確實的當天\n179837\t196714\t這幾個機場的氣候狀況報告委員 剛剛還是華航給我們的資料我們就照單全收在華航的報告的內容其實已經有講到氣候的狀況是 但我們有沒有主動去了解這個部分我們在調資料當中銀行局正在調資料當中這個我會要求大家其實真的沒有那麼難調來 我們先看一下\n197973\t214802\t當天本時也去查了一下當天確實新加坡下午的地方有可能會有雷陣雨對飛航有可能有安全的疑慮來當你也看到胡志明市胡志明市整體的氣象降雨量少以及馬尼拉\n217342\t237182\t4月13號當天的一個氣象大致穩定但午後可能會有局部雷陣雨我想這個是專業的判斷本席都可以請同仁先去找出相關的資料那更重要的是專業的判斷你這個資料是飛航需求的資料嗎專業判斷對所以本席才提到因為飛航需求的資料需要前一個小時\n237702\t256190\t沒錯 所以部長本席才會提醒你如果說兩個禮拜之後到現在你們都沒有掌握資料你們只是片面的聽信華航提供的資料我覺得這不夠專業也沒有盡到監管機關的責任報告委員氣象資料民航局有掌握不是沒有掌握但是監管機關是誰\n258359\t267521\t他有掌握啊 他有掌握本席 部長你剛剛沒有辦法回答我的問題其實 我說實在話哪個問題沒辦法回答部長 你在反質詢是不是沒有 我沒有在反質詢哪個問題沒辦法回答部長 你就針對問題 是啊 沒有問題啊好不好 來來來 部長本席現在在\n278379\t304747\t要求的是交通部站在中央主管機關應該要看到我們各飛航的專業來協助飛航怎麼樣做經濟而華航主要在這一次的事件裡面讓外界質疑的聲音到現在沒有少過即便今天講得如此的好聽但是我說了到現在兩個禮拜之後到目前為止你們的飛航紀錄以及相關的航空資訊到目前為止你們沒有掌握\n305782\t328302\t既然沒有掌握本席只是要求說是不是應該要去做一個管理以及立案調查去真真正正的了解說當天的狀況是不是符合現場的判斷報告委員民航局說他們有掌握啦只是說資料要分析需要再分析相關的資料他們真的有掌握啦不是沒掌握跟委員報告\n329583\t337291\t如果說要這樣硬凹的話 我覺得這不是一個做實現的做法那我可以請民航局提供資料給你們來 我們再來\n339022\t365350\t民航局什麼時候會給國人一個清楚明白的交代針對這一次的華航的判斷的一個事件因為外界大家都在質疑其實我今天有很多的議題啊部長我說實在話我很希望能夠心平氣和跟你就專業論專業今天是在做後續的檢討我們今天沒有發生任何的人為意外我覺得這是萬幸但是萬幸完之後我們要去釐清說到底\n366310\t387677\t華航的決策是不是站在乘客的安全為最高指導標準還是說站在他們的航空的維護的安全方面你可以搖頭那就代表請你用數據以及用你們的報告專業的來說服我們而不是到現在兩個禮拜之後給出了我們這一份只有華航單方面的一個片面資料\n389677\t413009\t來再來報告委員民航局的報告是用書面的他不是來台上報告但他有提供書面您可以參考他的書面報告黃航有沒有看到這一個投書有有看到黃航剛剛跟我們講得非常的好聽喔說有包括這個這個回程的作業支持主動跟旅客致意表達建議等等的\n413749\t440528\t那我們來看一下這個是其中一個投書過去一個禮拜非常煎熬始終沒有任何正式的說明或者是更新以乘客安全當時的機上廣播以乘客安全為優先的決定感覺像是以公私利益為出發點這是大多數乘客的感受最後收到的希望能夠索取一個延誤證明但最後收到的是一個簡單的備忘錄\n442096\t462907\t沒有忽略台北起飛13.5個小時的過程以及收到的是一個300塊的餐券跟金沙巧克力華航你的資料報告說明的很完整看起來完整\n464133\t474465\t最大的關懷處理最大的誠意速度全力處理協助平安續行但實際上乘客的感受是這樣子天差地別這個\n479100\t501779\t這對姐弟我們有掌握,在新加坡人當時飛機回航的時候,在高雄我們就盡力的供應飲料還有餐食這些東西就是為了準備下一次的起飛後來我們當天下午就又派了一架加班機從台北到高雄,然後再把高雄載到新加坡去\n502941\t517538\t這個我們真的不是用那個航機維修的那個考量假如真的航機維修我乾脆就飛到台北就好啦我根本不需要到高雄然後再派飛機上這個大費周章所以基本上真的是底下的那個\n520261\t546042\t東南亞的這些天氣不是很好所以我們華航的說明我覺得還是要由主管機關這邊來做一個認定因為這就代表是我們要看到一個問題今天真的是不幸中的大幸沒有造成任何的人員傷亡但我每一次在交通委員會我都講如果說要等到人員傷亡要等到後面全都排排站有很多攝影機的時候那代表我們出大事\n547028\t552766\t不要有任何事情最好所以在這件例子上面民航局什麼時候能夠再做釐清來給國人確認\n555780\t583762\t跟委員報告因為剛剛所提到的相關關心的天氣資料也好飛航的過程組員的判斷等等因為民航局都要根據剛剛委員所提的我們自己調查到的資料而不是單憑華航的提供的資料所以這個部分我們需要花一些時間在做處理那是不是委員這邊可以給我們如果是初步報告因為一般來講我們是完成完整的報告那如果初步的報告我們是不是建議可以一個月\n584158\t609528\t好 一個月來 部長再來請教我們上上禮拜有討論到美國關稅的問題那您也提到是說對於觀光業以及運輸業 航運業有很大的衝擊那現在行政院提出了4100億本期兩個禮拜前在這邊有跟您就教交通部有沒有針對這個部分特別條例有爭取任何行政院這邊的支持那現在4100億出來啦本來的880億\n613550\t628424\t沒有交通部那多增加了三四倍到4100億到目前為止沒有看到細項那我想請教4100億裡面交通部不管是觀光的部分不管是航運的部分佔了多少報告委員我們有個別跟這個航運業界空運業界\n630246\t650242\t還有觀光業界大家都有辦過座談會那目前看起來海運跟航空的影響還沒有很大所以這個部分目前應該就是有一些調整性的東西跟彈性的東西我們有提供給業者給他們協助那另外觀光業界我昨天有跟他們座談我有看到新聞也有出來但我現在問的問題部長深度問題回答問題好4100億\n655006\t677483\t有支持產業930億有國土安全認証1500億有照顧民生1670億這個是額外因應美國關稅那你兩個禮拜前在這邊也詢答說有特別講到觀光產業有可能會有非常大的衝擊我們那時候也說料底要從寬所以如果說有任何支持資源的力量也應該要來預先掌握\n678143\t689515\t那4100億裡面有沒有交通的部分目前我們跟這個業者大家座談跟一些協助的方案的討論我們目前用觀光的基金應該都還能夠應付所以4100億裡面是沒有交通觀光\n693971\t708103\t你們做決策要負責啦來最後我想今天很重要的部分還是在於是安全的部分那有兩個我再佔用一小段時間啦有兩個最近的新聞我覺得這個東西也是見為之助\n709284\t733204\t部長一個是有行人要過馬路那高舉雙手舉了雙手意思就代表說要過馬路那結果這一個畫面裡面他可能沒有辦法播放影片那這個畫面裡面連續過了十幾台車都沒有停讓那之後才讓這個行人過去這是一個部分另外下一個部分\n734145\t757260\t因為行人在過馬路而導致於救護車已經有警示燈的救護車他要等行人過馬路而救護車才啟動那再加上早上新聞又推播我們交通部的小編跟剛剛部長一樣也是很強悍\n759035\t782283\t這個很嗆 就是在交通部的很嗆是講道理 很嗆 不會用嗆的啦很好 部長我們希望就事論事 就專業論專業啦所以一樣 就是說在現在的執法已經我們為了要擺脫行人地獄一年多的時間但難免在社會上有遇到很多的狀況每個人都會以本位主義為考量\n784026\t787455\t駕駛用路人以及行人等等的部分本席認為應該都是\n790869\t816791\t我們不能說偏廢權益都要互相尊重那在這兩個案例裡面部長看到什麼樣的狀況報告委員大家像委員剛剛所提到的大家對於大家平等的狀況的共識我認為這個社會還不足啦那但是對交通部來說最重要的行人的安全因為這關係到人命這個部分我們會去要求所以剛剛那個影片雖然沒有辦法播放但我有看過那桃園市政府也有針對\n818332\t843770\t這十幾台車有裁罰這個部分有裁罰那針對行人的部分其實我知道因為這個我們現在開始尊重行人之後有些行人的違規的狀況我們也都看得到那這個部分該罰其實也都有罰那最近這兩年我們在行人違規的開罰的這個數量其實也增加了不少因為現在大家都有行車紀錄器如果有行車紀錄器的檢舉這些該罰其實也都會罰\n846392\t866754\t開罰是最好的做法嗎其實不是 大家的觀念是最重要的所以我們觀念的提升以及怎麼樣用制度的設計讓更多人能夠清楚明白了解一個過馬路每天大家都要做的事情的一個順暢本席只提一個這一個我覺得真的是可以研究討論\n868988\t885816\t粉絲專頁上面也拍到日本有一個畫面他是在很多的價值朋友也抱怨就是說有看到行人在路邊的時候他不確定這行人到底要不要過馬路也因此他不確定說要不要停等那行人如果說他已經有他的習慣譬如說舉手代表是過馬路\n887512\t907252\t另外一個部分像日本他有一個有趣的設計是說他有多畫一個過馬路時候的停等區如果說行人站在那上面代表他就是要準備過馬路那那個時候駕駛就應該要停下來讓行人過但如果說他不是停在那個地方的話可能他只是在路邊等朋友\n907873\t917712\t他就不一定要停下來我覺得光這樣子的一個部分也許在幾個路口可以做事辦的方式非號之路口是可以這麼做的\n918715\t947945\t我們可以來示範我們可以來示範我覺得這是蠻好的方法但我本席提醒一下像這個他是畫在馬路上如果說畫的話應該是要畫在行人畫裡面一點是畫裡面一點不然我覺得我看了也覺得說這個小朋友在馬路上側邊好像也有點危險為了要去那邊停等在日本可能比較安全在台灣可能比較危險好所以部長針對這個部分如果說能夠來示範什麼時候能夠來推行或說至少來做一個研擬跟規劃設計省到找個地方來做好不好\n948956\t957988\t我們省道很快速的來示範幾個路口我想還是要跟地方政府溝通之後來去做推行新北市跟台北市我們來跟他們溝通\n","txt":"好 主席麻煩請陳士凱部長好 那個交通部陳部長民航局局長還有我們運安會主委好 那個民航局何局長 來運安會林主委 來高董事長\n我先很快的來就教因為這一次的這個4月13號華航的飛機的一個狀況剛剛高董事長也說明很清楚但是我想還是要請教這次運安會你的報告講是說非屬重大運輸事故範圍所以為立案調查但本席之前有提過其實運安會應該是一個防範於未然我們當然不希望說每一次是重大事故之後我們才來去做相關的調查如果可以我們在\n預先預防的一個情況下來去做一個調查跟了解是不是會更加的妥適來 運安會是不是說明一下委員講的沒有錯是如果會預防防範以未然這是最好的那麼這樣子它對航空機實質沒有損害而且沒有那我們有沒有看到真正的low data\n來 部長或者是我們院安會因為現在是民航局有相關監理機關進行調查那現在華航告訴我們今天給我們的一個簡報是相對比較簡陋只有跟我們講說天氣其他的機場都是不行的那請教不管是我們現在民航局也好或是院安會也好有沒有看到當天的一個確實的一個數據\n跟委員報告 基本上民航局這邊已經訪談了相關的駕駛跟公司那有關派遣的相關天氣資料我們已經拿到也有看到相關的數據 當天的數據狀況當天的我們還要再調還要再調對 因為相關Meta資料現在4月30號了 4月13號兩個多禮拜以前的事情那現在今天我們做專案報告結果你跟我們講是說你的資料還要再調\n我們的資料就是我們還要因為根據黃航剛剛講的當天因為機場的前一個小時是包含那個是由機場端來報就是新加坡、拉夫、自民等等所以這些資料基本上我們也要經過判讀跟相關的時間然後包含當天的操作跟防航的地點來 部長本席\n也過去也是華航的常客我搭最多的就是華航因為我覺得是值得信賴也是我們國家的航空那但是在飛安事件上來講在這次的事故裡面很多人都會懷疑不是以飛安為最優先的考量而是以維修方便所以不是選擇最近的胡志明市的機場或者是馬尼拉機場而是選擇回來到我們台灣的小港機場小港機場不在我們的這個飛行計畫裡面\n是不是是 報告員本來是沒有在飛行計畫裡面那當時我所理解的是當時的駕駛他是有判斷鄰近的那幾個機場的天氣的狀況包含新加坡在內包含馬尼拉那也包含越南那我們有沒有看到確實的當天\n這幾個機場的氣候狀況報告委員 剛剛還是華航給我們的資料我們就照單全收在華航的報告的內容其實已經有講到氣候的狀況是 但我們有沒有主動去了解這個部分我們在調資料當中銀行局正在調資料當中這個我會要求大家其實真的沒有那麼難調來 我們先看一下\n當天本時也去查了一下當天確實新加坡下午的地方有可能會有雷陣雨對飛航有可能有安全的疑慮來當你也看到胡志明市胡志明市整體的氣象降雨量少以及馬尼拉\n4月13號當天的一個氣象大致穩定但午後可能會有局部雷陣雨我想這個是專業的判斷本席都可以請同仁先去找出相關的資料那更重要的是專業的判斷你這個資料是飛航需求的資料嗎專業判斷對所以本席才提到因為飛航需求的資料需要前一個小時\n沒錯 所以部長本席才會提醒你如果說兩個禮拜之後到現在你們都沒有掌握資料你們只是片面的聽信華航提供的資料我覺得這不夠專業也沒有盡到監管機關的責任報告委員氣象資料民航局有掌握不是沒有掌握但是監管機關是誰\n他有掌握啊 他有掌握本席 部長你剛剛沒有辦法回答我的問題其實 我說實在話哪個問題沒辦法回答部長 你在反質詢是不是沒有 我沒有在反質詢哪個問題沒辦法回答部長 你就針對問題 是啊 沒有問題啊好不好 來來來 部長本席現在在\n要求的是交通部站在中央主管機關應該要看到我們各飛航的專業來協助飛航怎麼樣做經濟而華航主要在這一次的事件裡面讓外界質疑的聲音到現在沒有少過即便今天講得如此的好聽但是我說了到現在兩個禮拜之後到目前為止你們的飛航紀錄以及相關的航空資訊到目前為止你們沒有掌握\n既然沒有掌握本席只是要求說是不是應該要去做一個管理以及立案調查去真真正正的了解說當天的狀況是不是符合現場的判斷報告委員民航局說他們有掌握啦只是說資料要分析需要再分析相關的資料他們真的有掌握啦不是沒掌握跟委員報告\n如果說要這樣硬凹的話 我覺得這不是一個做實現的做法那我可以請民航局提供資料給你們來 我們再來\n民航局什麼時候會給國人一個清楚明白的交代針對這一次的華航的判斷的一個事件因為外界大家都在質疑其實我今天有很多的議題啊部長我說實在話我很希望能夠心平氣和跟你就專業論專業今天是在做後續的檢討我們今天沒有發生任何的人為意外我覺得這是萬幸但是萬幸完之後我們要去釐清說到底\n華航的決策是不是站在乘客的安全為最高指導標準還是說站在他們的航空的維護的安全方面你可以搖頭那就代表請你用數據以及用你們的報告專業的來說服我們而不是到現在兩個禮拜之後給出了我們這一份只有華航單方面的一個片面資料\n來再來報告委員民航局的報告是用書面的他不是來台上報告但他有提供書面您可以參考他的書面報告黃航有沒有看到這一個投書有有看到黃航剛剛跟我們講得非常的好聽喔說有包括這個這個回程的作業支持主動跟旅客致意表達建議等等的\n那我們來看一下這個是其中一個投書過去一個禮拜非常煎熬始終沒有任何正式的說明或者是更新以乘客安全當時的機上廣播以乘客安全為優先的決定感覺像是以公私利益為出發點這是大多數乘客的感受最後收到的希望能夠索取一個延誤證明但最後收到的是一個簡單的備忘錄\n沒有忽略台北起飛13.5個小時的過程以及收到的是一個300塊的餐券跟金沙巧克力華航你的資料報告說明的很完整看起來完整\n最大的關懷處理最大的誠意速度全力處理協助平安續行但實際上乘客的感受是這樣子天差地別這個\n這對姐弟我們有掌握,在新加坡人當時飛機回航的時候,在高雄我們就盡力的供應飲料還有餐食這些東西就是為了準備下一次的起飛後來我們當天下午就又派了一架加班機從台北到高雄,然後再把高雄載到新加坡去\n這個我們真的不是用那個航機維修的那個考量假如真的航機維修我乾脆就飛到台北就好啦我根本不需要到高雄然後再派飛機上這個大費周章所以基本上真的是底下的那個\n東南亞的這些天氣不是很好所以我們華航的說明我覺得還是要由主管機關這邊來做一個認定因為這就代表是我們要看到一個問題今天真的是不幸中的大幸沒有造成任何的人員傷亡但我每一次在交通委員會我都講如果說要等到人員傷亡要等到後面全都排排站有很多攝影機的時候那代表我們出大事\n不要有任何事情最好所以在這件例子上面民航局什麼時候能夠再做釐清來給國人確認\n跟委員報告因為剛剛所提到的相關關心的天氣資料也好飛航的過程組員的判斷等等因為民航局都要根據剛剛委員所提的我們自己調查到的資料而不是單憑華航的提供的資料所以這個部分我們需要花一些時間在做處理那是不是委員這邊可以給我們如果是初步報告因為一般來講我們是完成完整的報告那如果初步的報告我們是不是建議可以一個月\n好 一個月來 部長再來請教我們上上禮拜有討論到美國關稅的問題那您也提到是說對於觀光業以及運輸業 航運業有很大的衝擊那現在行政院提出了4100億本期兩個禮拜前在這邊有跟您就教交通部有沒有針對這個部分特別條例有爭取任何行政院這邊的支持那現在4100億出來啦本來的880億\n沒有交通部那多增加了三四倍到4100億到目前為止沒有看到細項那我想請教4100億裡面交通部不管是觀光的部分不管是航運的部分佔了多少報告委員我們有個別跟這個航運業界空運業界\n還有觀光業界大家都有辦過座談會那目前看起來海運跟航空的影響還沒有很大所以這個部分目前應該就是有一些調整性的東西跟彈性的東西我們有提供給業者給他們協助那另外觀光業界我昨天有跟他們座談我有看到新聞也有出來但我現在問的問題部長深度問題回答問題好4100億\n有支持產業930億有國土安全認証1500億有照顧民生1670億這個是額外因應美國關稅那你兩個禮拜前在這邊也詢答說有特別講到觀光產業有可能會有非常大的衝擊我們那時候也說料底要從寬所以如果說有任何支持資源的力量也應該要來預先掌握\n那4100億裡面有沒有交通的部分目前我們跟這個業者大家座談跟一些協助的方案的討論我們目前用觀光的基金應該都還能夠應付所以4100億裡面是沒有交通觀光\n你們做決策要負責啦來最後我想今天很重要的部分還是在於是安全的部分那有兩個我再佔用一小段時間啦有兩個最近的新聞我覺得這個東西也是見為之助\n部長一個是有行人要過馬路那高舉雙手舉了雙手意思就代表說要過馬路那結果這一個畫面裡面他可能沒有辦法播放影片那這個畫面裡面連續過了十幾台車都沒有停讓那之後才讓這個行人過去這是一個部分另外下一個部分\n因為行人在過馬路而導致於救護車已經有警示燈的救護車他要等行人過馬路而救護車才啟動那再加上早上新聞又推播我們交通部的小編跟剛剛部長一樣也是很強悍\n這個很嗆 就是在交通部的很嗆是講道理 很嗆 不會用嗆的啦很好 部長我們希望就事論事 就專業論專業啦所以一樣 就是說在現在的執法已經我們為了要擺脫行人地獄一年多的時間但難免在社會上有遇到很多的狀況每個人都會以本位主義為考量\n駕駛用路人以及行人等等的部分本席認為應該都是\n我們不能說偏廢權益都要互相尊重那在這兩個案例裡面部長看到什麼樣的狀況報告委員大家像委員剛剛所提到的大家對於大家平等的狀況的共識我認為這個社會還不足啦那但是對交通部來說最重要的行人的安全因為這關係到人命這個部分我們會去要求所以剛剛那個影片雖然沒有辦法播放但我有看過那桃園市政府也有針對\n這十幾台車有裁罰這個部分有裁罰那針對行人的部分其實我知道因為這個我們現在開始尊重行人之後有些行人的違規的狀況我們也都看得到那這個部分該罰其實也都有罰那最近這兩年我們在行人違規的開罰的這個數量其實也增加了不少因為現在大家都有行車紀錄器如果有行車紀錄器的檢舉這些該罰其實也都會罰\n開罰是最好的做法嗎其實不是 大家的觀念是最重要的所以我們觀念的提升以及怎麼樣用制度的設計讓更多人能夠清楚明白了解一個過馬路每天大家都要做的事情的一個順暢本席只提一個這一個我覺得真的是可以研究討論\n粉絲專頁上面也拍到日本有一個畫面他是在很多的價值朋友也抱怨就是說有看到行人在路邊的時候他不確定這行人到底要不要過馬路也因此他不確定說要不要停等那行人如果說他已經有他的習慣譬如說舉手代表是過馬路\n另外一個部分像日本他有一個有趣的設計是說他有多畫一個過馬路時候的停等區如果說行人站在那上面代表他就是要準備過馬路那那個時候駕駛就應該要停下來讓行人過但如果說他不是停在那個地方的話可能他只是在路邊等朋友\n他就不一定要停下來我覺得光這樣子的一個部分也許在幾個路口可以做事辦的方式非號之路口是可以這麼做的\n我們可以來示範我們可以來示範我覺得這是蠻好的方法但我本席提醒一下像這個他是畫在馬路上如果說畫的話應該是要畫在行人畫裡面一點是畫裡面一點不然我覺得我看了也覺得說這個小朋友在馬路上側邊好像也有點危險為了要去那邊停等在日本可能比較安全在台灣可能比較危險好所以部長針對這個部分如果說能夠來示範什麼時候能夠來推行或說至少來做一個研擬跟規劃設計省到找個地方來做好不好\n我們省道很快速的來示範幾個路口我想還是要跟地方政府溝通之後來去做推行新北市跟台北市我們來跟他們溝通\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.291 --> 00:14.072\n好主席麻煩請陳士凱部長好那個交通部陳部長民航局局長還有我們運安會主委好那個民航局何局長來運安會林主委來高董事長\n\n00:15.049 --> 00:43.985\n我先很快的來就教因為這一次的這個4月13號華航的飛機的一個狀況剛剛高董事長也說明很清楚但是我想還是要請教這次運安會你的報告講是說非屬重大運輸事故範圍所以為立案調查但本席之前有提過其實運安會應該是一個防範於未然我們當然不希望說每一次是重大事故之後我們才來去做相關的調查如果可以我們在\n\n00:45.792 --> 01:03.317\n預先預防的一個情況下來去做一個調查跟了解是不是會更加的妥適來運安會是不是說明一下委員講的沒有錯是如果會預防防範以未然這是最好的那麼這樣子它對航空機實質沒有損害而且沒有那我們有沒有看到真正的lowdata\n\n01:04.862 --> 01:22.641\n來部長或者是我們院安會因為現在是民航局有相關監理機關進行調查那現在華航告訴我們今天給我們的一個簡報是相對比較簡陋只有跟我們講說天氣其他的機場都是不行的那請教不管是我們現在民航局也好或是院安會也好有沒有看到當天的一個確實的一個數據\n\n01:25.599 --> 01:51.365\n跟委員報告基本上民航局這邊已經訪談了相關的駕駛跟公司那有關派遣的相關天氣資料我們已經拿到也有看到相關的數據當天的數據狀況當天的我們還要再調還要再調對因為相關Meta資料現在4月30號了4月13號兩個多禮拜以前的事情那現在今天我們做專案報告結果你跟我們講是說你的資料還要再調\n\n01:52.265 --> 02:11.762\n我們的資料就是我們還要因為根據黃航剛剛講的當天因為機場的前一個小時是包含那個是由機場端來報就是新加坡、拉夫、自民等等所以這些資料基本上我們也要經過判讀跟相關的時間然後包含當天的操作跟防航的地點來部長本席\n\n02:13.308 --> 02:38.518\n也過去也是華航的常客我搭最多的就是華航因為我覺得是值得信賴也是我們國家的航空那但是在飛安事件上來講在這次的事故裡面很多人都會懷疑不是以飛安為最優先的考量而是以維修方便所以不是選擇最近的胡志明市的機場或者是馬尼拉機場而是選擇回來到我們台灣的小港機場小港機場不在我們的這個飛行計畫裡面\n\n02:39.998 --> 02:56.774\n是不是是報告員本來是沒有在飛行計畫裡面那當時我所理解的是當時的駕駛他是有判斷鄰近的那幾個機場的天氣的狀況包含新加坡在內包含馬尼拉那也包含越南那我們有沒有看到確實的當天\n\n02:59.837 --> 03:16.714\n這幾個機場的氣候狀況報告委員剛剛還是華航給我們的資料我們就照單全收在華航的報告的內容其實已經有講到氣候的狀況是但我們有沒有主動去了解這個部分我們在調資料當中銀行局正在調資料當中這個我會要求大家其實真的沒有那麼難調來我們先看一下\n\n03:17.973 --> 03:34.802\n當天本時也去查了一下當天確實新加坡下午的地方有可能會有雷陣雨對飛航有可能有安全的疑慮來當你也看到胡志明市胡志明市整體的氣象降雨量少以及馬尼拉\n\n03:37.342 --> 03:57.182\n4月13號當天的一個氣象大致穩定但午後可能會有局部雷陣雨我想這個是專業的判斷本席都可以請同仁先去找出相關的資料那更重要的是專業的判斷你這個資料是飛航需求的資料嗎專業判斷對所以本席才提到因為飛航需求的資料需要前一個小時\n\n03:57.702 --> 04:16.190\n沒錯所以部長本席才會提醒你如果說兩個禮拜之後到現在你們都沒有掌握資料你們只是片面的聽信華航提供的資料我覺得這不夠專業也沒有盡到監管機關的責任報告委員氣象資料民航局有掌握不是沒有掌握但是監管機關是誰\n\n04:18.359 --> 04:27.521\n他有掌握啊他有掌握本席部長你剛剛沒有辦法回答我的問題其實我說實在話哪個問題沒辦法回答部長你在反質詢是不是沒有我沒有在反質詢哪個問題沒辦法回答部長你就針對問題是啊沒有問題啊好不好來來來部長本席現在在\n\n04:38.379 --> 05:04.747\n要求的是交通部站在中央主管機關應該要看到我們各飛航的專業來協助飛航怎麼樣做經濟而華航主要在這一次的事件裡面讓外界質疑的聲音到現在沒有少過即便今天講得如此的好聽但是我說了到現在兩個禮拜之後到目前為止你們的飛航紀錄以及相關的航空資訊到目前為止你們沒有掌握\n\n05:05.782 --> 05:28.302\n既然沒有掌握本席只是要求說是不是應該要去做一個管理以及立案調查去真真正正的了解說當天的狀況是不是符合現場的判斷報告委員民航局說他們有掌握啦只是說資料要分析需要再分析相關的資料他們真的有掌握啦不是沒掌握跟委員報告\n\n05:29.583 --> 05:37.291\n如果說要這樣硬凹的話我覺得這不是一個做實現的做法那我可以請民航局提供資料給你們來我們再來\n\n05:39.022 --> 06:05.350\n民航局什麼時候會給國人一個清楚明白的交代針對這一次的華航的判斷的一個事件因為外界大家都在質疑其實我今天有很多的議題啊部長我說實在話我很希望能夠心平氣和跟你就專業論專業今天是在做後續的檢討我們今天沒有發生任何的人為意外我覺得這是萬幸但是萬幸完之後我們要去釐清說到底\n\n06:06.310 --> 06:27.677\n華航的決策是不是站在乘客的安全為最高指導標準還是說站在他們的航空的維護的安全方面你可以搖頭那就代表請你用數據以及用你們的報告專業的來說服我們而不是到現在兩個禮拜之後給出了我們這一份只有華航單方面的一個片面資料\n\n06:29.677 --> 06:53.009\n來再來報告委員民航局的報告是用書面的他不是來台上報告但他有提供書面您可以參考他的書面報告黃航有沒有看到這一個投書有有看到黃航剛剛跟我們講得非常的好聽喔說有包括這個這個回程的作業支持主動跟旅客致意表達建議等等的\n\n06:53.749 --> 07:20.528\n那我們來看一下這個是其中一個投書過去一個禮拜非常煎熬始終沒有任何正式的說明或者是更新以乘客安全當時的機上廣播以乘客安全為優先的決定感覺像是以公私利益為出發點這是大多數乘客的感受最後收到的希望能夠索取一個延誤證明但最後收到的是一個簡單的備忘錄\n\n07:22.096 --> 07:42.907\n沒有忽略台北起飛13.5個小時的過程以及收到的是一個300塊的餐券跟金沙巧克力華航你的資料報告說明的很完整看起來完整\n\n07:44.133 --> 07:54.465\n最大的關懷處理最大的誠意速度全力處理協助平安續行但實際上乘客的感受是這樣子天差地別這個\n\n07:59.100 --> 08:21.779\n這對姐弟我們有掌握,在新加坡人當時飛機回航的時候,在高雄我們就盡力的供應飲料還有餐食這些東西就是為了準備下一次的起飛後來我們當天下午就又派了一架加班機從台北到高雄,然後再把高雄載到新加坡去\n\n08:22.941 --> 08:37.538\n這個我們真的不是用那個航機維修的那個考量假如真的航機維修我乾脆就飛到台北就好啦我根本不需要到高雄然後再派飛機上這個大費周章所以基本上真的是底下的那個\n\n08:40.261 --> 09:06.042\n東南亞的這些天氣不是很好所以我們華航的說明我覺得還是要由主管機關這邊來做一個認定因為這就代表是我們要看到一個問題今天真的是不幸中的大幸沒有造成任何的人員傷亡但我每一次在交通委員會我都講如果說要等到人員傷亡要等到後面全都排排站有很多攝影機的時候那代表我們出大事\n\n09:07.028 --> 09:12.766\n不要有任何事情最好所以在這件例子上面民航局什麼時候能夠再做釐清來給國人確認\n\n09:15.780 --> 09:43.762\n跟委員報告因為剛剛所提到的相關關心的天氣資料也好飛航的過程組員的判斷等等因為民航局都要根據剛剛委員所提的我們自己調查到的資料而不是單憑華航的提供的資料所以這個部分我們需要花一些時間在做處理那是不是委員這邊可以給我們如果是初步報告因為一般來講我們是完成完整的報告那如果初步的報告我們是不是建議可以一個月\n\n09:44.158 --> 10:09.528\n好一個月來部長再來請教我們上上禮拜有討論到美國關稅的問題那您也提到是說對於觀光業以及運輸業航運業有很大的衝擊那現在行政院提出了4100億本期兩個禮拜前在這邊有跟您就教交通部有沒有針對這個部分特別條例有爭取任何行政院這邊的支持那現在4100億出來啦本來的880億\n\n10:13.550 --> 10:28.424\n沒有交通部那多增加了三四倍到4100億到目前為止沒有看到細項那我想請教4100億裡面交通部不管是觀光的部分不管是航運的部分佔了多少報告委員我們有個別跟這個航運業界空運業界\n\n10:30.246 --> 10:50.242\n還有觀光業界大家都有辦過座談會那目前看起來海運跟航空的影響還沒有很大所以這個部分目前應該就是有一些調整性的東西跟彈性的東西我們有提供給業者給他們協助那另外觀光業界我昨天有跟他們座談我有看到新聞也有出來但我現在問的問題部長深度問題回答問題好4100億\n\n10:55.006 --> 11:17.483\n有支持產業930億有國土安全認証1500億有照顧民生1670億這個是額外因應美國關稅那你兩個禮拜前在這邊也詢答說有特別講到觀光產業有可能會有非常大的衝擊我們那時候也說料底要從寬所以如果說有任何支持資源的力量也應該要來預先掌握\n\n11:18.143 --> 11:29.515\n那4100億裡面有沒有交通的部分目前我們跟這個業者大家座談跟一些協助的方案的討論我們目前用觀光的基金應該都還能夠應付所以4100億裡面是沒有交通觀光\n\n11:33.971 --> 11:48.103\n你們做決策要負責啦來最後我想今天很重要的部分還是在於是安全的部分那有兩個我再佔用一小段時間啦有兩個最近的新聞我覺得這個東西也是見為之助\n\n11:49.284 --> 12:13.204\n部長一個是有行人要過馬路那高舉雙手舉了雙手意思就代表說要過馬路那結果這一個畫面裡面他可能沒有辦法播放影片那這個畫面裡面連續過了十幾台車都沒有停讓那之後才讓這個行人過去這是一個部分另外下一個部分\n\n12:14.145 --> 12:37.260\n因為行人在過馬路而導致於救護車已經有警示燈的救護車他要等行人過馬路而救護車才啟動那再加上早上新聞又推播我們交通部的小編跟剛剛部長一樣也是很強悍\n\n12:39.035 --> 13:02.283\n這個很嗆就是在交通部的很嗆是講道理很嗆不會用嗆的啦很好部長我們希望就事論事就專業論專業啦所以一樣就是說在現在的執法已經我們為了要擺脫行人地獄一年多的時間但難免在社會上有遇到很多的狀況每個人都會以本位主義為考量\n\n13:04.026 --> 13:07.455\n駕駛用路人以及行人等等的部分本席認為應該都是\n\n13:10.869 --> 13:36.791\n我們不能說偏廢權益都要互相尊重那在這兩個案例裡面部長看到什麼樣的狀況報告委員大家像委員剛剛所提到的大家對於大家平等的狀況的共識我認為這個社會還不足啦那但是對交通部來說最重要的行人的安全因為這關係到人命這個部分我們會去要求所以剛剛那個影片雖然沒有辦法播放但我有看過那桃園市政府也有針對\n\n13:38.332 --> 14:03.770\n這十幾台車有裁罰這個部分有裁罰那針對行人的部分其實我知道因為這個我們現在開始尊重行人之後有些行人的違規的狀況我們也都看得到那這個部分該罰其實也都有罰那最近這兩年我們在行人違規的開罰的這個數量其實也增加了不少因為現在大家都有行車紀錄器如果有行車紀錄器的檢舉這些該罰其實也都會罰\n\n14:06.392 --> 14:26.754\n開罰是最好的做法嗎其實不是大家的觀念是最重要的所以我們觀念的提升以及怎麼樣用制度的設計讓更多人能夠清楚明白了解一個過馬路每天大家都要做的事情的一個順暢本席只提一個這一個我覺得真的是可以研究討論\n\n14:28.988 --> 14:45.816\n粉絲專頁上面也拍到日本有一個畫面他是在很多的價值朋友也抱怨就是說有看到行人在路邊的時候他不確定這行人到底要不要過馬路也因此他不確定說要不要停等那行人如果說他已經有他的習慣譬如說舉手代表是過馬路\n\n14:47.512 --> 15:07.252\n另外一個部分像日本他有一個有趣的設計是說他有多畫一個過馬路時候的停等區如果說行人站在那上面代表他就是要準備過馬路那那個時候駕駛就應該要停下來讓行人過但如果說他不是停在那個地方的話可能他只是在路邊等朋友\n\n15:07.873 --> 15:17.712\n他就不一定要停下來我覺得光這樣子的一個部分也許在幾個路口可以做事辦的方式非號之路口是可以這麼做的\n\n15:18.715 --> 15:47.945\n我們可以來示範我們可以來示範我覺得這是蠻好的方法但我本席提醒一下像這個他是畫在馬路上如果說畫的話應該是要畫在行人畫裡面一點是畫裡面一點不然我覺得我看了也覺得說這個小朋友在馬路上側邊好像也有點危險為了要去那邊停等在日本可能比較安全在台灣可能比較危險好所以部長針對這個部分如果說能夠來示範什麼時候能夠來推行或說至少來做一個研擬跟規劃設計省到找個地方來做好不好\n\n15:48.956 --> 15:57.988\n我們省道很快速的來示範幾個路口我想還是要跟地方政府溝通之後來去做推行新北市跟台北市我們來跟他們溝通\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.291,"end":14.072,"text":"好 主席麻煩請陳士凱部長好 那個交通部陳部長民航局局長還有我們運安會主委好 那個民航局何局長 來運安會林主委 來高董事長"},{"start":15.049,"end":43.985,"text":"我先很快的來就教因為這一次的這個4月13號華航的飛機的一個狀況剛剛高董事長也說明很清楚但是我想還是要請教這次運安會你的報告講是說非屬重大運輸事故範圍所以為立案調查但本席之前有提過其實運安會應該是一個防範於未然我們當然不希望說每一次是重大事故之後我們才來去做相關的調查如果可以我們在"},{"start":45.792,"end":63.317,"text":"預先預防的一個情況下來去做一個調查跟了解是不是會更加的妥適來 運安會是不是說明一下委員講的沒有錯是如果會預防防範以未然這是最好的那麼這樣子它對航空機實質沒有損害而且沒有那我們有沒有看到真正的low data"},{"start":64.862,"end":82.641,"text":"來 部長或者是我們院安會因為現在是民航局有相關監理機關進行調查那現在華航告訴我們今天給我們的一個簡報是相對比較簡陋只有跟我們講說天氣其他的機場都是不行的那請教不管是我們現在民航局也好或是院安會也好有沒有看到當天的一個確實的一個數據"},{"start":85.599,"end":111.365,"text":"跟委員報告 基本上民航局這邊已經訪談了相關的駕駛跟公司那有關派遣的相關天氣資料我們已經拿到也有看到相關的數據 當天的數據狀況當天的我們還要再調還要再調對 因為相關Meta資料現在4月30號了 4月13號兩個多禮拜以前的事情那現在今天我們做專案報告結果你跟我們講是說你的資料還要再調"},{"start":112.265,"end":131.762,"text":"我們的資料就是我們還要因為根據黃航剛剛講的當天因為機場的前一個小時是包含那個是由機場端來報就是新加坡、拉夫、自民等等所以這些資料基本上我們也要經過判讀跟相關的時間然後包含當天的操作跟防航的地點來 部長本席"},{"start":133.308,"end":158.518,"text":"也過去也是華航的常客我搭最多的就是華航因為我覺得是值得信賴也是我們國家的航空那但是在飛安事件上來講在這次的事故裡面很多人都會懷疑不是以飛安為最優先的考量而是以維修方便所以不是選擇最近的胡志明市的機場或者是馬尼拉機場而是選擇回來到我們台灣的小港機場小港機場不在我們的這個飛行計畫裡面"},{"start":159.998,"end":176.774,"text":"是不是是 報告員本來是沒有在飛行計畫裡面那當時我所理解的是當時的駕駛他是有判斷鄰近的那幾個機場的天氣的狀況包含新加坡在內包含馬尼拉那也包含越南那我們有沒有看到確實的當天"},{"start":179.837,"end":196.714,"text":"這幾個機場的氣候狀況報告委員 剛剛還是華航給我們的資料我們就照單全收在華航的報告的內容其實已經有講到氣候的狀況是 但我們有沒有主動去了解這個部分我們在調資料當中銀行局正在調資料當中這個我會要求大家其實真的沒有那麼難調來 我們先看一下"},{"start":197.973,"end":214.802,"text":"當天本時也去查了一下當天確實新加坡下午的地方有可能會有雷陣雨對飛航有可能有安全的疑慮來當你也看到胡志明市胡志明市整體的氣象降雨量少以及馬尼拉"},{"start":217.342,"end":237.182,"text":"4月13號當天的一個氣象大致穩定但午後可能會有局部雷陣雨我想這個是專業的判斷本席都可以請同仁先去找出相關的資料那更重要的是專業的判斷你這個資料是飛航需求的資料嗎專業判斷對所以本席才提到因為飛航需求的資料需要前一個小時"},{"start":237.702,"end":256.19,"text":"沒錯 所以部長本席才會提醒你如果說兩個禮拜之後到現在你們都沒有掌握資料你們只是片面的聽信華航提供的資料我覺得這不夠專業也沒有盡到監管機關的責任報告委員氣象資料民航局有掌握不是沒有掌握但是監管機關是誰"},{"start":258.359,"end":267.521,"text":"他有掌握啊 他有掌握本席 部長你剛剛沒有辦法回答我的問題其實 我說實在話哪個問題沒辦法回答部長 你在反質詢是不是沒有 我沒有在反質詢哪個問題沒辦法回答部長 你就針對問題 是啊 沒有問題啊好不好 來來來 部長本席現在在"},{"start":278.379,"end":304.747,"text":"要求的是交通部站在中央主管機關應該要看到我們各飛航的專業來協助飛航怎麼樣做經濟而華航主要在這一次的事件裡面讓外界質疑的聲音到現在沒有少過即便今天講得如此的好聽但是我說了到現在兩個禮拜之後到目前為止你們的飛航紀錄以及相關的航空資訊到目前為止你們沒有掌握"},{"start":305.782,"end":328.302,"text":"既然沒有掌握本席只是要求說是不是應該要去做一個管理以及立案調查去真真正正的了解說當天的狀況是不是符合現場的判斷報告委員民航局說他們有掌握啦只是說資料要分析需要再分析相關的資料他們真的有掌握啦不是沒掌握跟委員報告"},{"start":329.583,"end":337.291,"text":"如果說要這樣硬凹的話 我覺得這不是一個做實現的做法那我可以請民航局提供資料給你們來 我們再來"},{"start":339.022,"end":365.35,"text":"民航局什麼時候會給國人一個清楚明白的交代針對這一次的華航的判斷的一個事件因為外界大家都在質疑其實我今天有很多的議題啊部長我說實在話我很希望能夠心平氣和跟你就專業論專業今天是在做後續的檢討我們今天沒有發生任何的人為意外我覺得這是萬幸但是萬幸完之後我們要去釐清說到底"},{"start":366.31,"end":387.677,"text":"華航的決策是不是站在乘客的安全為最高指導標準還是說站在他們的航空的維護的安全方面你可以搖頭那就代表請你用數據以及用你們的報告專業的來說服我們而不是到現在兩個禮拜之後給出了我們這一份只有華航單方面的一個片面資料"},{"start":389.677,"end":413.009,"text":"來再來報告委員民航局的報告是用書面的他不是來台上報告但他有提供書面您可以參考他的書面報告黃航有沒有看到這一個投書有有看到黃航剛剛跟我們講得非常的好聽喔說有包括這個這個回程的作業支持主動跟旅客致意表達建議等等的"},{"start":413.749,"end":440.528,"text":"那我們來看一下這個是其中一個投書過去一個禮拜非常煎熬始終沒有任何正式的說明或者是更新以乘客安全當時的機上廣播以乘客安全為優先的決定感覺像是以公私利益為出發點這是大多數乘客的感受最後收到的希望能夠索取一個延誤證明但最後收到的是一個簡單的備忘錄"},{"start":442.096,"end":462.907,"text":"沒有忽略台北起飛13.5個小時的過程以及收到的是一個300塊的餐券跟金沙巧克力華航你的資料報告說明的很完整看起來完整"},{"start":464.133,"end":474.465,"text":"最大的關懷處理最大的誠意速度全力處理協助平安續行但實際上乘客的感受是這樣子天差地別這個"},{"start":479.1,"end":501.779,"text":"這對姐弟我們有掌握,在新加坡人當時飛機回航的時候,在高雄我們就盡力的供應飲料還有餐食這些東西就是為了準備下一次的起飛後來我們當天下午就又派了一架加班機從台北到高雄,然後再把高雄載到新加坡去"},{"start":502.941,"end":517.538,"text":"這個我們真的不是用那個航機維修的那個考量假如真的航機維修我乾脆就飛到台北就好啦我根本不需要到高雄然後再派飛機上這個大費周章所以基本上真的是底下的那個"},{"start":520.261,"end":546.042,"text":"東南亞的這些天氣不是很好所以我們華航的說明我覺得還是要由主管機關這邊來做一個認定因為這就代表是我們要看到一個問題今天真的是不幸中的大幸沒有造成任何的人員傷亡但我每一次在交通委員會我都講如果說要等到人員傷亡要等到後面全都排排站有很多攝影機的時候那代表我們出大事"},{"start":547.028,"end":552.766,"text":"不要有任何事情最好所以在這件例子上面民航局什麼時候能夠再做釐清來給國人確認"},{"start":555.78,"end":583.762,"text":"跟委員報告因為剛剛所提到的相關關心的天氣資料也好飛航的過程組員的判斷等等因為民航局都要根據剛剛委員所提的我們自己調查到的資料而不是單憑華航的提供的資料所以這個部分我們需要花一些時間在做處理那是不是委員這邊可以給我們如果是初步報告因為一般來講我們是完成完整的報告那如果初步的報告我們是不是建議可以一個月"},{"start":584.158,"end":609.528,"text":"好 一個月來 部長再來請教我們上上禮拜有討論到美國關稅的問題那您也提到是說對於觀光業以及運輸業 航運業有很大的衝擊那現在行政院提出了4100億本期兩個禮拜前在這邊有跟您就教交通部有沒有針對這個部分特別條例有爭取任何行政院這邊的支持那現在4100億出來啦本來的880億"},{"start":613.55,"end":628.424,"text":"沒有交通部那多增加了三四倍到4100億到目前為止沒有看到細項那我想請教4100億裡面交通部不管是觀光的部分不管是航運的部分佔了多少報告委員我們有個別跟這個航運業界空運業界"},{"start":630.246,"end":650.242,"text":"還有觀光業界大家都有辦過座談會那目前看起來海運跟航空的影響還沒有很大所以這個部分目前應該就是有一些調整性的東西跟彈性的東西我們有提供給業者給他們協助那另外觀光業界我昨天有跟他們座談我有看到新聞也有出來但我現在問的問題部長深度問題回答問題好4100億"},{"start":655.006,"end":677.483,"text":"有支持產業930億有國土安全認証1500億有照顧民生1670億這個是額外因應美國關稅那你兩個禮拜前在這邊也詢答說有特別講到觀光產業有可能會有非常大的衝擊我們那時候也說料底要從寬所以如果說有任何支持資源的力量也應該要來預先掌握"},{"start":678.143,"end":689.515,"text":"那4100億裡面有沒有交通的部分目前我們跟這個業者大家座談跟一些協助的方案的討論我們目前用觀光的基金應該都還能夠應付所以4100億裡面是沒有交通觀光"},{"start":693.971,"end":708.103,"text":"你們做決策要負責啦來最後我想今天很重要的部分還是在於是安全的部分那有兩個我再佔用一小段時間啦有兩個最近的新聞我覺得這個東西也是見為之助"},{"start":709.284,"end":733.204,"text":"部長一個是有行人要過馬路那高舉雙手舉了雙手意思就代表說要過馬路那結果這一個畫面裡面他可能沒有辦法播放影片那這個畫面裡面連續過了十幾台車都沒有停讓那之後才讓這個行人過去這是一個部分另外下一個部分"},{"start":734.145,"end":757.26,"text":"因為行人在過馬路而導致於救護車已經有警示燈的救護車他要等行人過馬路而救護車才啟動那再加上早上新聞又推播我們交通部的小編跟剛剛部長一樣也是很強悍"},{"start":759.035,"end":782.283,"text":"這個很嗆 就是在交通部的很嗆是講道理 很嗆 不會用嗆的啦很好 部長我們希望就事論事 就專業論專業啦所以一樣 就是說在現在的執法已經我們為了要擺脫行人地獄一年多的時間但難免在社會上有遇到很多的狀況每個人都會以本位主義為考量"},{"start":784.026,"end":787.455,"text":"駕駛用路人以及行人等等的部分本席認為應該都是"},{"start":790.869,"end":816.791,"text":"我們不能說偏廢權益都要互相尊重那在這兩個案例裡面部長看到什麼樣的狀況報告委員大家像委員剛剛所提到的大家對於大家平等的狀況的共識我認為這個社會還不足啦那但是對交通部來說最重要的行人的安全因為這關係到人命這個部分我們會去要求所以剛剛那個影片雖然沒有辦法播放但我有看過那桃園市政府也有針對"},{"start":818.332,"end":843.77,"text":"這十幾台車有裁罰這個部分有裁罰那針對行人的部分其實我知道因為這個我們現在開始尊重行人之後有些行人的違規的狀況我們也都看得到那這個部分該罰其實也都有罰那最近這兩年我們在行人違規的開罰的這個數量其實也增加了不少因為現在大家都有行車紀錄器如果有行車紀錄器的檢舉這些該罰其實也都會罰"},{"start":846.392,"end":866.754,"text":"開罰是最好的做法嗎其實不是 大家的觀念是最重要的所以我們觀念的提升以及怎麼樣用制度的設計讓更多人能夠清楚明白了解一個過馬路每天大家都要做的事情的一個順暢本席只提一個這一個我覺得真的是可以研究討論"},{"start":868.988,"end":885.816,"text":"粉絲專頁上面也拍到日本有一個畫面他是在很多的價值朋友也抱怨就是說有看到行人在路邊的時候他不確定這行人到底要不要過馬路也因此他不確定說要不要停等那行人如果說他已經有他的習慣譬如說舉手代表是過馬路"},{"start":887.512,"end":907.252,"text":"另外一個部分像日本他有一個有趣的設計是說他有多畫一個過馬路時候的停等區如果說行人站在那上面代表他就是要準備過馬路那那個時候駕駛就應該要停下來讓行人過但如果說他不是停在那個地方的話可能他只是在路邊等朋友"},{"start":907.873,"end":917.712,"text":"他就不一定要停下來我覺得光這樣子的一個部分也許在幾個路口可以做事辦的方式非號之路口是可以這麼做的"},{"start":918.715,"end":947.945,"text":"我們可以來示範我們可以來示範我覺得這是蠻好的方法但我本席提醒一下像這個他是畫在馬路上如果說畫的話應該是要畫在行人畫裡面一點是畫裡面一點不然我覺得我看了也覺得說這個小朋友在馬路上側邊好像也有點危險為了要去那邊停等在日本可能比較安全在台灣可能比較危險好所以部長針對這個部分如果說能夠來示範什麼時候能夠來推行或說至少來做一個研擬跟規劃設計省到找個地方來做好不好"},{"start":948.956,"end":957.988,"text":"我們省道很快速的來示範幾個路口我想還是要跟地方政府溝通之後來去做推行新北市跟台北市我們來跟他們溝通"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":106,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（9時33分）主席，麻煩請陳世凱部長。"],["主席：好，請交通部陳部長。"],["洪委員孟楷：民航局局長還有運安會主委、華航高董事長。"],["主席：好，民航局何局長、運安會林主委，以及高董事長。"],["洪委員孟楷：我現在很快的來就教各位，因為這一次4月13號華航飛機的狀況，剛剛高董事長也說明得很清楚，但是我還是要請教，這次運安會的報告說這非屬重大運輸事故範圍，所以未立案調查，但本席之前有提過，其實運安會應該要防範於未然，我們當然不希望在每一次重大事故之後才做相關的調查，如果可以在預先預防的情況下去做調查跟了解，是不是會更加妥適？來，運安會是不是說明一下？"],["林主任委員信得：委員講得沒有錯，如果能預防、防範於未然是最好的，那麼它的航空器沒有實質損害，而且沒有……"],["洪委員孟楷：那我們有沒有看到真正的raw data？來，部長或者是運安會，因為現在是由民航局相關監理機關進行調查，現在華航告訴我們，今天給我們的簡報也相對比較簡陋，只有跟我們講到天氣、其他的機場都是不行的，請教一下，現在不管是民航局也好或是運安會也好，有沒有看到當天確實的數據？"],["何局長淑萍：跟委員報告，基本上民航局這邊已經訪談了相關的駕駛跟公司，我們也已經拿到有關派遣的相關天氣資料，相關的……"],["洪委員孟楷：有看到相關的數據，當天的數據及狀況？"],["何局長淑萍：當天的我們還要再調，因為當天……"],["洪委員孟楷：還要再調？"],["何局長淑萍：對，因為相關的METAR資料……"],["洪委員孟楷：現在4月30號了，這是4月13號、兩個多禮拜以前的事情，今天我們做專案報告，結果你跟我們講你們的資料還要再調？"],["何局長淑萍：我們的資料還要……根據華航剛剛講的，當天因為機場前一個小時是包含……那個由機場端來報，就是新加坡、胡志明等等，所以這些資料基本上我們也要經過判讀跟相關的時間，包含當天的操作跟……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，本席過去也是華航的常客，我搭最多的就是華航，因為我覺得它最值得信賴，也是我們國家的航空，但是在飛安事件上來講，在這次事故裡面，很多人都會懷疑這不是以飛安為最優先的考量，而是以維修方便，所以不是選擇最近的胡志明市機場，或者是馬尼拉的機場，而是選擇回到我們臺灣的小港機場，小港機場不在我們的飛行計畫裡面，是不是？"],["陳部長世凱：是，報告委員，這本來沒有在飛行計畫裡面，而我所理解的是，當時駕駛判斷鄰近幾個機場的天氣狀況，包含新加坡、馬尼拉在內，也包含越南……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們有沒有確實看到當天這幾個機場的氣候狀況？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，剛剛……"],["洪委員孟楷：還是華航給的資料就照單全收？"],["陳部長世凱：在華航報告的內容當中其實已經有講到氣候的狀況……"],["洪委員孟楷：是，但你們有沒有主動去了解跟掌握？"],["陳部長世凱：這部分我們在調資料，民航局正在調資料當中，這個我會要求……"],["洪委員孟楷：其實真的沒有那麼難調。來，我們先看一下，當天本席也去查了一下，當天確實新加坡下午可能會有雷陣雨，對飛航可能有安全的疑慮；當天也看到胡志明市整體氣象是降雨量少；以及馬尼拉4月13號當天氣象大致穩定，但午後可能會有局部雷陣雨。我想這個是專業的判斷，本席都可以請同仁先去找出相關的資料，更重要的是專業的判斷……"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，您這個資料是飛航需求的資料嗎？"],["洪委員孟楷：對，所以本席才提到，部長……"],["陳部長世凱：飛航需求的資料需要前一個小時。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒錯，部長，所以本席才會提醒，如果你們從兩個禮拜前到現在都沒有掌握資料，你們只是片面聽信華航提供的資料，我覺得這不夠專業，也沒有盡到監管機關的責任……"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，關於氣象資料，民航局有掌握，不是沒有掌握。"],["洪委員孟楷：但監管機關是誰？部長……"],["陳部長世凱：他們有掌握啊！"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，你剛剛沒有辦法回答我的問題，其實我說實在話……"],["陳部長世凱：哪個問題沒辦法回答？"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，你在反質詢是不是？"],["陳部長世凱：沒有，我沒有在反質詢，哪個問題沒辦法回答？"],["主席：部長，你就針對問題，大家溝通看看。"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒有問題，我就回答……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，本席現在要求交通部站在中央主管機關的立場，應該要看到各飛航的專業來協助飛航怎麼樣精進……"],["陳部長世凱：一定要做。"],["洪委員孟楷：而華航在這一次事件中讓外界質疑的聲音到現在沒有少過……"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：即便今天講得如此的好聽，但是我說了，到現在兩個禮拜了，你們的飛航紀錄以及相關的航空資訊到目前為止還沒有掌握，既然沒有掌握……"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，其實民航局有掌握資料……"],["洪委員孟楷：本席只是要求你們是不是應該要做好管理以及立案調查，真真正正了解當天狀況是不是符合現場的判斷？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，民航局說他們有掌握，只是資料要分析，需要再分析相關的資料，他們真的有掌握啦，不是沒掌握。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，如果要這樣硬拗的話，我覺得這不是一個……"],["陳部長世凱：沒有硬拗，資料有就是有，沒有就是沒有，我可以請民航局提供資料給您，這沒問題啊！"],["洪委員孟楷：再來，民航局什麼時候會給國人一個清楚、明白的交代？針對這一次華航判斷的事件，因為外界都在質疑，其實我今天有很多的議題，部長……"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：說實在話，我很希望能夠心平氣和跟你就專業論專業……"],["陳部長世凱：沒有問題啊！"],["洪委員孟楷：今天是在做後續的檢討，當天沒有發生任何的人為意外，我覺得這是萬幸，但是萬幸之後要去釐清，到底華航的決策是不是站在以乘客安全為最高指導標準，還是站在他們航空維護的安全方便？你可以搖頭，那就請你們用數據以及用你們的報告，用專業來說服我們，而不是在兩個禮拜之後，給了我們這份只有華航單方面的片面資料。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，民航局的報告是用書面，並非上臺報告，但有提供書面，您可以參考。"],["洪委員孟楷：再來，華航有沒有看到這則投書？"],["高董事長星潢：有，有看到。"],["洪委員孟楷：華航剛剛講得非常好聽，說包括回程的作業支持、主動跟旅客致意、表達歉意等等。這是其中一則投書，我們來看一下：過去一個禮拜非常煎熬，始終沒有任何正式的說明或更新。當時機上廣播說，以乘客安全為優先決定，但感覺像是以公司利益為出發點，這是大多數乘客的感受……希望能索取延誤證明，但最後收到的是簡單的備忘錄，忽略臺北起飛13.5個小時的過程及300塊的餐券跟金沙巧克力。華航的資料報告說明得很完整，看起來完整，以最大的關懷去處理，最大的誠意速度全力處理，協助平安續行。但實際上乘客的感受卻是這樣子，根本是天差地別！"],["高董事長星潢：這對姐弟我們有掌握，是新加坡人。當時飛機回航高雄時，我們盡力供應飲料及餐食，這些就是為了準備下一次的起飛。後來我們在當天下午又派了一架加班機從臺北到高雄，然後再從高雄把旅客載到新加坡去，我們真的不是以航機維修為考量，假如真的是航機維修，乾脆飛到臺北就好了，根本不需要到高雄，然後再大費周章派飛機過去。基本上真的是因為東南亞的天氣不是很好，所以……"],["洪委員孟楷：華航的說明還是要由主管機關來做認定，因為代表了我們所看到的問題。這次真的是不幸中的大幸，沒有造成任何人員傷亡，但我每一次在交通委員會都講，如果說要等到人員傷亡才來想辦法，要等到人員都在後面全排排站，而且有很多攝影機時，代表我們出大事了！不要出任何事情最好！在這件事情上，民航局什麼時候能再釐清給國人確認？"],["何局長淑萍：跟委員報告，因為剛剛所提到的，不論是天氣的資料也好，或飛航的過程、組員的判斷等等，民航局都要根據委員所提及我們自己調查到的資料去判斷，而非單憑華航所提供的資料。所以這部分我們需要花一些時間做處理，委員是不是可以給我們一點時間？一般來講，我們會提出完成完整的報告，但如果初步報告的話，是不是建議給我們一個月？"],["洪委員孟楷：好，一個月。","請教部長，上上禮拜有討論到美國關稅問題，你也提到對於觀光業以及運輸業、航運業有很大衝擊，所以行政院提出了4,100億的特別預算。本席在兩個禮拜前在這邊就教部長，交通部有沒有針對特別條例來爭取行政院的任何支持？現在4,100億出來了，本來的880億沒有交通部，現在增加三、四倍到4,100億，只是到目前為止，還沒有看到細項。我想請教這4,100億裡面，交通部不管是觀光還是航運到底占了多少？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我們有個別跟航運業界、空運業界及觀光業界辦過座談會，目前看起來，海運跟航空的影響還沒有很大，不過我們有提供調整性及彈性的東西給業者並協助他們。另外，我昨天有跟觀光業界座談……"],["洪委員孟楷：我有看到，新聞也有出來。"],["陳部長世凱：他們希望我們可以做……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，針對問題，回答問題。這4,100億當中，支持產業930億，國土安全韌性1,500億，照顧民生1,670億，這是因應美國關稅額外編列的。兩個禮拜前你在這邊詢答時特別講到，觀光產業可能會受到非常大的衝擊，我們那時候也說料敵從寬。因此，如果有任何支持、支援的力量也應該要預先掌握，所以這4,100億裡面有沒有交通的部分？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，日前我們跟業者進行座談及協助方案的討論，目前用觀光基金應該都還能夠應付……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以4,100億裡面沒有交通、觀光？"],["陳部長世凱：對，沒有放在裡面。"],["洪委員孟楷：OK，你們做了決策就要負責。最後，今天很重要的還是在安全部分。有兩個問題，我再占用一小段時間。最近的新聞其實見微知著，部長，有一則新聞是行人高舉雙手要過馬路，行人舉了雙手就代表要過馬路。"],["陳部長世凱：對，沒錯。"],["洪委員孟楷：這裡可能沒辦法播放影片，不過還是可以知道，連續過了十幾臺車都沒有停讓，之後行人才過去，這是一個。另一個，因為行人過馬路，而導致已經開啟警示燈的救護車等行人過馬路才啟動，早上新聞推播，交通部小編跟剛剛部長一樣，很強悍、很嗆……"],["陳部長世凱：不是嗆，是講道理，我跟委員不會用嗆的。"],["洪委員孟楷：很好。部長，我們希望就事論事，就專業論專業。這一年多時間裡，我們努力想擺脫行人地獄之名，但難免在社會上遇到很多狀況，畢竟每個人都以本位主義為考量。但不管駕駛、用路人以及行人，本席認為應該都是一體的，我們不能有偏廢，權益都要互相尊重。在這兩個案例裡，部長看到什麼狀況？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，像委員剛剛所提到對於平等狀況的共識，我認為這個社會還不足！但對交通部來說，最重要的是行人的安全，因為關係到人命，所以這個部分，我們會去要求。雖然剛剛影片沒有辦法播放，但我有看過，桃園市政府也針對這十幾臺車做裁罰，這個部分有裁罰。針對行人的部分，我知道在開始尊重行人之後，確實有些行人違規的狀況，我們也都看得到，這部分該罰的其實都有罰。最近這兩年，針對行人違規開罰的數量其實也增加了不少，畢竟現在大家都有行車紀錄器，如果以行車紀錄器去檢舉，其實該罰的都會罰。"],["洪委員孟楷：開罰是最好的作法嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：其實不是！"],["洪委員孟楷：也不是？"],["陳部長世凱：大家的觀念是最重要的。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以觀念的提升以及怎麼樣用制度設計，讓更多人能清楚、明白、了解，過馬路是大家每天都要做的事情……順暢……"],["陳部長世凱：對，該遵守的規則與禮貌……"],["洪委員孟楷：本席只提一點，這點我覺得值得研究與討論。粉絲專頁上有拍到日本的一個畫面，很多駕駛朋友抱怨，有看到行人在路邊，但不確定行人到底要不要過馬路，也因此不確定要不要停等，畢竟行人也有習慣，譬如舉手代表要過馬路。另外，日本有一個有趣的設計，也就是劃設過馬路的停等區，一旦行人站在上面就代表準備過馬路，那時候駕駛就應該要停下來讓行人過；如果行人不是站在那個地方，可能只是在路邊等朋友，那就不一定要停下來。就這樣子來看，也許我們可以在幾個路口試辦……"],["陳部長世凱：非號誌路口是可以這麼做，我們可以來試辦，我覺得這是滿好的方法。"],["洪委員孟楷：但本席提醒一下，日本是畫在馬路上，如果我們要畫的話應該是畫在行人……"],["陳部長世凱：要畫裡面一點，比較安全。"],["洪委員孟楷：要畫裡面一點，不然我看了也覺得小朋友站在馬路側邊好像有點危險，為了要去那邊停等。"],["陳部長世凱：在日本可能比較安全，在臺灣可能比較危險。"],["洪委員孟楷：針對這部分，如果能試辦的話，什麼時候能夠來推行？至少先做研擬跟規劃設計。"],["陳部長世凱：先在省道找個地方來做，好不好？我們很快在省道幾個路口來試辦，好不好？"],["洪委員孟楷：好，但還是要跟地方政府溝通後做推行，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：我們會跟新北市及臺北市溝通。"],["洪委員孟楷：感謝。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員。","現在請李昆澤委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":462,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-9","speakers":["林國成","洪孟楷","李昆澤","傅崐萁","陳雪生","何欣純","廖先翔","蔡其昌","吳宗憲","陳素月","林俊憲","徐富癸","魯明哲","許智傑","王義川","鍾佳濱","張啓楷","邱若華","邱志偉","黃建賓","王美惠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李柏毅","游顥","陳冠廷","徐欣瑩","蔡易餘","林德福","黃健豪","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":373,"meetingDate":["2025-04-30"],"gazette_id":"1144301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144301_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部民用航空局局長何淑萍、交通部鐵道局局長楊正君、國營臺灣鐵\n路股份有限公司代理董事長伍勝園、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長鄭光遠、中華航空股份有\n限公司董事長高星潢及國家運輸安全調查委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「近期我國航空、鐵路運\n營安全事件之檢討與改善及臺鐵票價調整方案」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144301_00008"}}}