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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 761.413, \"end\": 761.433, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 761.433, \"end\": 761.473, \"score\": 0.437}, {\"word\": \"油\", \"start\": 761.473, \"end\": 761.493, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"范\", \"start\": 768.766, \"end\": 769.109, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"雲\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 769.109, \"end\": 769.695, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"精\", \"start\": 769.695, \"end\": 769.997, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"彩\", \"start\": 769.997, \"end\": 770.018, \"score\": 0.098}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,916 --> 00:00:05,939\n好謝謝昭偉有請院長請院長備質詢謝謝好院長早我看你在今天的報告中有講到你們做的文化平權那也有看到就是說有個身障者參與的畫面那我想繼續追問這一題那在追問前我要肯定一下就是我們看到你們去年辦了多元性別\n\n2\n00:00:29,215 --> 00:00:53,958\n就是博物館中的就是多元性的博物館的國際線上論壇那這裡面也有看到博物館中的LGBTQIAplus的平等跟可見性那我想這是非常好的跟當代很多的議題結合那也跟博物館的國際趨勢能夠有更多的對話那肯定希望未來能夠有更多相關的規劃那它也是一種文化的平權\n\n3\n00:00:55,059 --> 00:01:23,727\n那再來我針對今天關注的文化平權中的深藏者那我要跟院長提醒這題你看到就是說我去年3月27號就跟您質詢了那去年10月24號再次質詢然後去年底的預算案再次提出那不過很遺憾的是也要跟院長講那我不知道你們每次答應我的事情\n\n4\n00:01:24,247 --> 00:01:33,650\n好像跟後來我收到的報告都有一個某種程度的落差我去年3月27號是質詢說你們應該要有無障礙的整體規劃機制確保決策機制的身心障礙者代表過半因為這個是國際公約了無障礙服務有一個服務應該要定期檢討院長您承諾三個月內提供規劃報告\n\n5\n00:01:48,934 --> 00:01:50,519\n就你的報告洋洋灑灑喔除了我問的英國的VMA他們怎麼做之外\n\n6\n00:01:55,450 --> 00:02:18,815\n講了國際的例子就把你們做過找了誰來演講然後看來演講就是三年差不多三年會邀一個相關的人來演講就講了很多現在已經有的那當然那些是很好可是我們要的不是一些單點的東西而是我們的確是收到陳情案你們之前因為那個斜坡入口邀很多山葬者可是他們感受到\n\n7\n00:02:19,375 --> 00:02:41,504\n你們把工程的過程跟之後並沒有繼續就是給予他們當天表達的意見的回覆也沒有做到那所以才會收到澄清案那當時你承諾的部分三個月內給我規劃報告結果規劃報告裡面只有在結尾的時候講說你們已經有一個提升服務品質的專案會議會針對無障礙定期檢討也會追蹤列管可是呢如何定期也沒有告訴我們\n\n8\n00:02:48,847 --> 00:03:11,226\n这是3月27号所以我过了半年我再次质询那次质询更夸张你们的回复我问了两题只回复就是保护的安全针对无障碍的部分完全没回也因为这样子我在去年底的预算案再次要求你们要研议我们要的是一个身心障碍平等参与机制嘛\n\n9\n00:03:12,006 --> 00:03:32,055\n為什麼是機制?機制之後就不需要我質詢了,它會自己運作那你們也答應了今年1月31日前提供書面報告我很遺憾,今年1月31日前又沒有回覆後來我辦公室去追之後,你們才\n\n10\n00:03:33,206 --> 00:03:40,554\n回給我們一頁的東西裡面說因為本辦去口頭洽詢所以給了我們一個相關諮詢委員會的名單名單本身我看起來當然不錯然後呢可是也沒有講機制只是說你們這個名單是個諮詢委員會好像有個委員會並且預告\n\n11\n00:03:54,670 --> 00:03:59,835\n4月2日會辦理提升服務品質專案會議又回到原來那個專案會議說你們會在專案會議中邀請你們的所謂身心障礙諮詢委員參與然後實地勘查議程課證嚴明中\n\n12\n00:04:10,766 --> 00:04:15,830\n哇噻已經過了快一年了然後我們再次詢問說連一個會議都還沒有開開一個會要超過一年的規劃然後終於我就請辦公室把4月2號之後開會的東西會議紀錄找來看\n\n13\n00:04:29,581 --> 00:04:55,970\n會議就找來看之後呢我覺得這個好像不是個委員會吧看起來你們也說是座談會那本來副院長主持看起來很好可是副院長黃副院長好像只有去開場之後又交給下面的人主持那我看這個會議記錄我覺得大家都非常的感謝你們都是稱讚然後但是也說了很多不足之處那觸目驚心啊包含說你們其中有一個地方有點字對不對給盲人的服務啊\n\n14\n00:04:58,211 --> 00:05:00,052\n但是那個是無法是錯誤的因為你們在工程的驗收的時候沒有請身障團體來檢驗所以那個是錯誤的因為點字中間距離太大這不是浪費工廠嗎\n\n15\n00:05:14,936 --> 00:05:23,523\n你做了一個點字的東西然後我們的深藏團體現場告訴你們說距離太大所以無法辨識然後請求你們未來在檢驗工程品質的時候請他們來我覺得我們深藏團體真的很委屈對於做了一點點的事情稱讚不已對於遇到的問題我們看起來是浪費工廠的東西然後就是很委婉的要求\n\n16\n00:05:42,138 --> 00:06:05,569\n而且副院長本來應該要全程參與我們要一個委員會像我們以前在台北市的性平委員會就是主委是市長我參加過市長只要沒有到最後我們是會檢視你這一季開一次市長來幾次副院長到了開個場就走下面的人都會看院長副院長不關心我幹嘛認真做這件事所以我想請問\n\n17\n00:06:07,390 --> 00:06:30,567\n院長你這個委員會是個委員會嗎你們給我的書面報告針對我的預算案說你有個諮詢委員會請問那個院長委員會的定義是什麼座談會是委員會嗎先跟委員報告因為故宮之前的話有一個指導委員會後來指導委員會取消了那現在故宮的話有策展委員會然後有青少年委員會\n\n18\n00:06:31,828 --> 00:06:37,172\n對青少年做得不錯兒童青少年做得不錯報告中有另外有警官委員會所以我們在討論這個事情的時候\n\n19\n00:06:40,785 --> 00:07:06,522\n人事主管單位他們就提出一個講法就是說其實在組總那邊的話就不希望我們裡面呈現太多所謂的委員會就是說太多的委員會的話就會變成說他的那個業務到底要怎麼處理所以原來的話我們也在想說等一下院長您先暫停不需要太多委員會這件事我沒意見可是要犧牲的是身障者的諮詢委員會嗎他不過是諮詢不是決策我知道\n\n20\n00:07:11,346 --> 00:07:26,742\n太多委員會是諮詢式會議會議出席費用你們付不起嗎另外的話就是說我們的那個服務品質專案會它都是一個專案會性質也沒有去成立委員會因為成立委員會就太多委員會了太多委員會的問題是什麼\n\n21\n00:07:29,997 --> 00:07:49,534\n因為委員會這樣的一個名詞會跟部會的名詞衝突所以基本上來講的話院長委員會是你故宮下面的委員會你跟我講跟部會我知道可是又不是NCC又不是行政院組織法律的委員會是你故宮下面的委員會\n\n22\n00:07:50,394 --> 00:08:05,903\n可是在行政的硬做上面的話都是盡量不要再成立類似委員會那你為什麼不在去年3月的時候就告訴我這樣浪費我快一年的時間答應我然後最後再應付我們我們現在不是應付不是應付你們的報告就是應付啊這個在檢討因為那時候也是想說然後還有報告不給的時間到了也沒有給我們\n\n23\n00:08:13,049 --> 00:08:24,156\n你預算案答應今年1月31號然後最後我們拿到的是3月13號我們一直在去催然後給我們畢業的東西4月2號我們真的請了那院長你們是不是太不一致了你剛剛說不要委員會你看一下我們口頭去催你遲到的預算案答應的1月31號上面寫\n\n24\n00:08:36,213 --> 00:08:48,858\n本院無障礙討論之相關諮詢委員會名單那你幹嘛要寫諮詢委員會名單你這樣子不是跟你現在說了不要委員會是矛盾的嗎那你為什麼要應付我呢就是說它是一個諮詢會它就不是委員會諮詢會跟委員會有什麼不同\n\n25\n00:08:57,982 --> 00:09:16,441\n我說的是定期耶那你為什麼要在給我的上面寫諮詢委員會的名單委員名單上面就寫著諮詢委員會那是那是那你們這是你們應付立法委員的方法嗎一般的用法基本上來講的話就是有不夠精確的地方不夠精確的地方\n\n26\n00:09:17,902 --> 00:09:22,884\n我跟委員承諾要成立一個定期的諮詢委員會基本上來講的話我跟委員打包票一定會做到因為事實上我們已經在進行了到現在我催了一年才4月2號才有一次第一次的座談會\n\n27\n00:09:44,614 --> 00:09:56,857\n然後開起來很像是一個沒有什麼效率的座談會當然大家非常的知無不言給你們很多建議也沒有追蹤機制然後到現在下次會議就會追蹤了下次是什麼時候你預計多少開一次這種專案會議我們原則上的話就是提升服務品質的專案會議它每季的話都會召開\n\n28\n00:10:10,919 --> 00:10:29,681\n每季都會是身障者的主題嗎都會包括在裡面因為都會包括在裡面是有身障成員就是過半嗎你過半才是能夠所以你這個部分你光是那個服務品質每季開始我個人就認為太慢了啦\n\n29\n00:10:30,402 --> 00:10:55,591\n那照你這個標準三年邀一次一年邀一次這個進度如牛對針對不同的事情的話都會召開臨時會議我們可以把歷次開那個扶貧值會議的那個給委員基本上來講的話我現在聚焦在生長者的權益每一個人都會老家裡如果有長者的話其實他事實上需要使用倫理行動不方便的話他其實也是多元平權裡面對長者的一個服務\n\n30\n00:10:59,132 --> 00:11:10,739\n所以這不是身障者而且身障者的人口數你們有沒有去研究過一下他到底佔人口的百分之多少那家裡的長輩一旦用了輪椅行動不方便之後是不是就是某一種身障者所以我是不能夠接受今天院長的答案啦那我的要求我是不了解為什麼不能有一個身心障礙學者專家的諮詢委員會我講的是諮詢喔你決策委員會不要太多可以理解嗎\n\n31\n00:11:27,648 --> 00:11:55,715\n諮詢委員會你能夠明確的決議有待改善追蹤機制我跟委員報告就是在這裡同仁都聽到了就是故宮一定會成立一個身心障礙的專案執行會議它這個會議的話是定期召開定期是多久定期多久的話那我們併著那個服務品質一季召開一次\n\n32\n00:11:56,681 --> 00:12:16,835\n你為什麼要併一個服務品質服務品質針對所有人你又跟他併在一起你為什麼不乾脆說這個專案會議一計一次然後是不是能夠院長主持一年至少主持一次然後再來也應該是副院長代理院長跟委員報告一年一計一次對我支持沒有問題\n\n33\n00:12:18,657 --> 00:12:41,493\n那既然是專案會議那你可不可以把這個會議的組成然後多久開一次然後追蹤機制人家給你意見不是說你們不做了還要找立委來幫忙問這個都能夠文字化從一個相關的辦法那在多久之內可以給本席呢一個月一個月內要文字化好不好相關辦法好謝謝院長加油\n\n34\n00:12:48,766 --> 00:12:50,018\n謝謝范雲委員精彩\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n916\t5939\t好 謝謝昭偉 有請院長請院長備質詢 謝謝好 院長早我看你在今天的報告中有講到你們做的文化平權那也有看到就是說有個身障者參與的畫面那我想繼續追問這一題那在追問前我要肯定一下就是我們看到你們去年辦了多元性別\n29215\t53958\t就是博物館中的就是多元性的博物館的國際線上論壇那這裡面也有看到博物館中的LGBTQIA plus的平等跟可見性那我想這是非常好的跟當代很多的議題結合那也跟博物館的國際趨勢能夠有更多的對話那肯定希望未來能夠有更多相關的規劃那它也是一種文化的平權\n55059\t83727\t那再來我針對今天關注的文化平權中的深藏者那我要跟院長提醒這題你看到就是說我去年3月27號就跟您質詢了那去年10月24號再次質詢然後去年底的預算案再次提出那不過很遺憾的是也要跟院長講那我不知道你們每次答應我的事情\n84247\t93650\t好像跟後來我收到的報告都有一個某種程度的落差我去年3月27號是質詢說你們應該要有無障礙的整體規劃機制確保決策機制的身心障礙者代表過半因為這個是國際公約了無障礙服務有一個服務應該要定期檢討院長您承諾三個月內提供規劃報告\n108934\t110519\t就你的報告洋洋灑灑喔除了我問的英國的VMA他們怎麼做之外\n115450\t138815\t講了國際的例子就把你們做過找了誰來演講然後看來演講就是三年差不多三年會邀一個相關的人來演講就講了很多現在已經有的那當然那些是很好可是我們要的不是一些單點的東西而是我們的確是收到陳情案你們之前因為那個斜坡入口邀很多山葬者可是他們感受到\n139375\t161504\t你們把工程的過程跟之後並沒有繼續就是給予他們當天表達的意見的回覆也沒有做到那所以才會收到澄清案那當時你承諾的部分三個月內給我規劃報告結果規劃報告裡面只有在結尾的時候講說你們已經有一個提升服務品質的專案會議會針對無障礙定期檢討也會追蹤列管可是呢如何定期也沒有告訴我們\n168847\t191226\t这是3月27号所以我过了半年我再次质询那次质询更夸张你们的回复我问了两题只回复就是保护的安全针对无障碍的部分完全没回也因为这样子我在去年底的预算案再次要求你们要研议我们要的是一个身心障碍平等参与机制嘛\n192006\t212055\t為什麼是機制?機制之後就不需要我質詢了,它會自己運作那你們也答應了今年1月31日前提供書面報告我很遺憾,今年1月31日前又沒有回覆後來我辦公室去追之後,你們才\n213206\t220554\t回給我們一頁的東西裡面說因為本辦去口頭洽詢所以給了我們一個相關諮詢委員會的名單名單本身我看起來當然不錯然後呢可是也沒有講機制只是說你們這個名單是個諮詢委員會好像有個委員會並且預告\n234670\t239835\t4月2日會辦理提升服務品質專案會議又回到原來那個專案會議說你們會在專案會議中邀請你們的所謂身心障礙諮詢委員參與然後實地勘查議程課證嚴明中\n250766\t255830\t哇噻 已經過了快一年了然後我們再次詢問說連一個會議都還沒有開開一個會要超過一年的規劃然後終於我就請辦公室把4月2號之後開會的東西會議紀錄找來看\n269581\t295970\t會議就找來看之後呢我覺得這個好像不是個委員會吧看起來你們也說是座談會那本來副院長主持看起來很好可是副院長黃副院長好像只有去開場之後又交給下面的人主持那我看這個會議記錄我覺得大家都非常的感謝你們都是稱讚然後但是也說了很多不足之處那觸目驚心啊包含說你們其中有一個地方有點字對不對給盲人的服務啊\n298211\t300052\t但是那個是無法是錯誤的因為你們在工程的驗收的時候沒有請身障團體來檢驗所以那個是錯誤的因為點字中間距離太大這不是浪費工廠嗎\n314936\t323523\t你做了一個點字的東西然後我們的深藏團體現場告訴你們說距離太大所以無法辨識然後請求你們未來在檢驗工程品質的時候請他們來我覺得我們深藏團體真的很委屈對於做了一點點的事情稱讚不已對於遇到的問題我們看起來是浪費工廠的東西然後就是很委婉的要求\n342138\t365569\t而且副院長本來應該要全程參與我們要一個委員會像我們以前在台北市的性平委員會就是主委是市長我參加過市長只要沒有到最後我們是會檢視你這一季開一次市長來幾次副院長到了開個場就走下面的人都會看院長副院長不關心我幹嘛認真做這件事所以我想請問\n367390\t390567\t院長你這個委員會是個委員會嗎你們給我的書面報告針對我的預算案說你有個諮詢委員會請問那個院長委員會的定義是什麼座談會是委員會嗎先跟委員報告因為故宮之前的話有一個指導委員會後來指導委員會取消了那現在故宮的話有策展委員會然後有青少年委員會\n391828\t397172\t對 青少年做得不錯 兒童青少年做得不錯報告中有另外有警官委員會所以我們在討論這個事情的時候\n400785\t426522\t人事主管單位他們就提出一個講法就是說其實在組總那邊的話就不希望我們裡面呈現太多所謂的委員會就是說太多的委員會的話就會變成說他的那個業務到底要怎麼處理所以原來的話我們也在想說等一下院長您先暫停不需要太多委員會這件事我沒意見可是要犧牲的是身障者的諮詢委員會嗎他不過是諮詢不是決策我知道\n431346\t446742\t太多委員會是諮詢式會議會議出席費用你們付不起嗎另外的話就是說我們的那個服務品質專案會它都是一個專案會性質也沒有去成立委員會因為成立委員會就太多委員會了太多委員會的問題是什麼\n449997\t469534\t因為委員會這樣的一個名詞會跟部會的名詞衝突所以基本上來講的話院長 委員會是你故宮下面的委員會你跟我講跟部會我知道 可是又不是NCC 又不是行政院組織法律的委員會是你故宮下面的委員會\n470394\t485903\t可是在行政的硬做上面的話都是盡量不要再成立類似委員會那你為什麼不在去年3月的時候就告訴我這樣浪費我快一年的時間答應我然後最後再應付我們我們現在不是應付不是應付你們的報告就是應付啊這個在檢討因為那時候也是想說然後還有報告不給的時間到了也沒有給我們\n493049\t504156\t你預算案答應今年1月31號然後最後我們拿到的是3月13號我們一直在去催然後給我們畢業的東西4月2號我們真的請了那院長你們是不是太不一致了你剛剛說不要委員會你看一下我們口頭去催你遲到的預算案答應的1月31號上面寫\n516213\t528858\t本院無障礙討論之相關諮詢委員會名單那你幹嘛要寫諮詢委員會名單你這樣子不是跟你現在說了不要委員會是矛盾的嗎那你為什麼要應付我呢就是說它是一個諮詢會它就不是委員會諮詢會跟委員會有什麼不同\n537982\t556441\t我說的是定期耶那你為什麼要在給我的上面寫諮詢委員會的名單委員名單上面就寫著諮詢委員會那是那是那你們這是你們應付立法委員的方法嗎一般的用法基本上來講的話就是有不夠精確的地方不夠精確的地方\n557902\t562884\t我跟委員承諾要成立一個定期的諮詢委員會基本上來講的話我跟委員打包票一定會做到因為事實上我們已經在進行了到現在我催了一年才4月2號才有一次第一次的座談會\n584614\t596857\t然後開起來很像是一個沒有什麼效率的座談會當然大家非常的知無不言給你們很多建議也沒有追蹤機制然後到現在下次會議就會追蹤了下次是什麼時候你預計多少開一次這種專案會議我們原則上的話就是提升服務品質的專案會議它每季的話都會召開\n610919\t629681\t每季都會是身障者的主題嗎都會包括在裡面因為都會包括在裡面是有身障成員就是過半嗎你過半才是能夠所以你這個部分你光是那個服務品質每季開始我個人就認為太慢了啦\n630402\t655591\t那照你這個標準三年邀一次一年邀一次這個進度如牛對 針對不同的事情的話都會召開臨時會議我們可以把歷次開那個扶貧值會議的那個給委員基本上來講的話我現在聚焦在生長者的權益每一個人都會老家裡如果有長者的話其實他事實上需要使用倫理行動不方便的話他其實也是多元平權裡面對長者的一個服務\n659132\t670739\t所以這不是身障者而且身障者的人口數你們有沒有去研究過一下他到底佔人口的百分之多少那家裡的長輩一旦用了輪椅行動不方便之後是不是就是某一種身障者所以我是不能夠接受今天院長的答案啦那我的要求我是不了解為什麼不能有一個身心障礙學者專家的諮詢委員會我講的是諮詢喔你決策委員會不要太多可以理解嗎\n687648\t715715\t諮詢委員會你能夠明確的決議有待改善追蹤機制我跟委員報告就是在這裡同仁都聽到了就是故宮一定會成立一個身心障礙的專案執行會議它這個會議的話是定期召開定期是多久定期多久的話那我們併著那個服務品質一季召開一次\n716681\t736835\t你為什麼要併一個服務品質服務品質針對所有人你又跟他併在一起你為什麼不乾脆說這個專案會議一計一次然後是不是能夠院長主持一年至少主持一次然後再來也應該是副院長代理院長跟委員報告一年一計一次對我支持沒有問題\n738657\t761493\t那既然是專案會議那你可不可以把這個會議的組成然後多久開一次然後追蹤機制人家給你意見不是說你們不做了還要找立委來幫忙問這個都能夠文字化從一個相關的辦法那在多久之內可以給本席呢一個月一個月內要文字化好不好相關辦法好謝謝院長加油\n768766\t770018\t謝謝范雲委員精彩\n","txt":"好 謝謝昭偉 有請院長請院長備質詢 謝謝好 院長早我看你在今天的報告中有講到你們做的文化平權那也有看到就是說有個身障者參與的畫面那我想繼續追問這一題那在追問前我要肯定一下就是我們看到你們去年辦了多元性別\n就是博物館中的就是多元性的博物館的國際線上論壇那這裡面也有看到博物館中的LGBTQIA plus的平等跟可見性那我想這是非常好的跟當代很多的議題結合那也跟博物館的國際趨勢能夠有更多的對話那肯定希望未來能夠有更多相關的規劃那它也是一種文化的平權\n那再來我針對今天關注的文化平權中的深藏者那我要跟院長提醒這題你看到就是說我去年3月27號就跟您質詢了那去年10月24號再次質詢然後去年底的預算案再次提出那不過很遺憾的是也要跟院長講那我不知道你們每次答應我的事情\n好像跟後來我收到的報告都有一個某種程度的落差我去年3月27號是質詢說你們應該要有無障礙的整體規劃機制確保決策機制的身心障礙者代表過半因為這個是國際公約了無障礙服務有一個服務應該要定期檢討院長您承諾三個月內提供規劃報告\n就你的報告洋洋灑灑喔除了我問的英國的VMA他們怎麼做之外\n講了國際的例子就把你們做過找了誰來演講然後看來演講就是三年差不多三年會邀一個相關的人來演講就講了很多現在已經有的那當然那些是很好可是我們要的不是一些單點的東西而是我們的確是收到陳情案你們之前因為那個斜坡入口邀很多山葬者可是他們感受到\n你們把工程的過程跟之後並沒有繼續就是給予他們當天表達的意見的回覆也沒有做到那所以才會收到澄清案那當時你承諾的部分三個月內給我規劃報告結果規劃報告裡面只有在結尾的時候講說你們已經有一個提升服務品質的專案會議會針對無障礙定期檢討也會追蹤列管可是呢如何定期也沒有告訴我們\n这是3月27号所以我过了半年我再次质询那次质询更夸张你们的回复我问了两题只回复就是保护的安全针对无障碍的部分完全没回也因为这样子我在去年底的预算案再次要求你们要研议我们要的是一个身心障碍平等参与机制嘛\n為什麼是機制?機制之後就不需要我質詢了,它會自己運作那你們也答應了今年1月31日前提供書面報告我很遺憾,今年1月31日前又沒有回覆後來我辦公室去追之後,你們才\n回給我們一頁的東西裡面說因為本辦去口頭洽詢所以給了我們一個相關諮詢委員會的名單名單本身我看起來當然不錯然後呢可是也沒有講機制只是說你們這個名單是個諮詢委員會好像有個委員會並且預告\n4月2日會辦理提升服務品質專案會議又回到原來那個專案會議說你們會在專案會議中邀請你們的所謂身心障礙諮詢委員參與然後實地勘查議程課證嚴明中\n哇噻 已經過了快一年了然後我們再次詢問說連一個會議都還沒有開開一個會要超過一年的規劃然後終於我就請辦公室把4月2號之後開會的東西會議紀錄找來看\n會議就找來看之後呢我覺得這個好像不是個委員會吧看起來你們也說是座談會那本來副院長主持看起來很好可是副院長黃副院長好像只有去開場之後又交給下面的人主持那我看這個會議記錄我覺得大家都非常的感謝你們都是稱讚然後但是也說了很多不足之處那觸目驚心啊包含說你們其中有一個地方有點字對不對給盲人的服務啊\n但是那個是無法是錯誤的因為你們在工程的驗收的時候沒有請身障團體來檢驗所以那個是錯誤的因為點字中間距離太大這不是浪費工廠嗎\n你做了一個點字的東西然後我們的深藏團體現場告訴你們說距離太大所以無法辨識然後請求你們未來在檢驗工程品質的時候請他們來我覺得我們深藏團體真的很委屈對於做了一點點的事情稱讚不已對於遇到的問題我們看起來是浪費工廠的東西然後就是很委婉的要求\n而且副院長本來應該要全程參與我們要一個委員會像我們以前在台北市的性平委員會就是主委是市長我參加過市長只要沒有到最後我們是會檢視你這一季開一次市長來幾次副院長到了開個場就走下面的人都會看院長副院長不關心我幹嘛認真做這件事所以我想請問\n院長你這個委員會是個委員會嗎你們給我的書面報告針對我的預算案說你有個諮詢委員會請問那個院長委員會的定義是什麼座談會是委員會嗎先跟委員報告因為故宮之前的話有一個指導委員會後來指導委員會取消了那現在故宮的話有策展委員會然後有青少年委員會\n對 青少年做得不錯 兒童青少年做得不錯報告中有另外有警官委員會所以我們在討論這個事情的時候\n人事主管單位他們就提出一個講法就是說其實在組總那邊的話就不希望我們裡面呈現太多所謂的委員會就是說太多的委員會的話就會變成說他的那個業務到底要怎麼處理所以原來的話我們也在想說等一下院長您先暫停不需要太多委員會這件事我沒意見可是要犧牲的是身障者的諮詢委員會嗎他不過是諮詢不是決策我知道\n太多委員會是諮詢式會議會議出席費用你們付不起嗎另外的話就是說我們的那個服務品質專案會它都是一個專案會性質也沒有去成立委員會因為成立委員會就太多委員會了太多委員會的問題是什麼\n因為委員會這樣的一個名詞會跟部會的名詞衝突所以基本上來講的話院長 委員會是你故宮下面的委員會你跟我講跟部會我知道 可是又不是NCC 又不是行政院組織法律的委員會是你故宮下面的委員會\n可是在行政的硬做上面的話都是盡量不要再成立類似委員會那你為什麼不在去年3月的時候就告訴我這樣浪費我快一年的時間答應我然後最後再應付我們我們現在不是應付不是應付你們的報告就是應付啊這個在檢討因為那時候也是想說然後還有報告不給的時間到了也沒有給我們\n你預算案答應今年1月31號然後最後我們拿到的是3月13號我們一直在去催然後給我們畢業的東西4月2號我們真的請了那院長你們是不是太不一致了你剛剛說不要委員會你看一下我們口頭去催你遲到的預算案答應的1月31號上面寫\n本院無障礙討論之相關諮詢委員會名單那你幹嘛要寫諮詢委員會名單你這樣子不是跟你現在說了不要委員會是矛盾的嗎那你為什麼要應付我呢就是說它是一個諮詢會它就不是委員會諮詢會跟委員會有什麼不同\n我說的是定期耶那你為什麼要在給我的上面寫諮詢委員會的名單委員名單上面就寫著諮詢委員會那是那是那你們這是你們應付立法委員的方法嗎一般的用法基本上來講的話就是有不夠精確的地方不夠精確的地方\n我跟委員承諾要成立一個定期的諮詢委員會基本上來講的話我跟委員打包票一定會做到因為事實上我們已經在進行了到現在我催了一年才4月2號才有一次第一次的座談會\n然後開起來很像是一個沒有什麼效率的座談會當然大家非常的知無不言給你們很多建議也沒有追蹤機制然後到現在下次會議就會追蹤了下次是什麼時候你預計多少開一次這種專案會議我們原則上的話就是提升服務品質的專案會議它每季的話都會召開\n每季都會是身障者的主題嗎都會包括在裡面因為都會包括在裡面是有身障成員就是過半嗎你過半才是能夠所以你這個部分你光是那個服務品質每季開始我個人就認為太慢了啦\n那照你這個標準三年邀一次一年邀一次這個進度如牛對 針對不同的事情的話都會召開臨時會議我們可以把歷次開那個扶貧值會議的那個給委員基本上來講的話我現在聚焦在生長者的權益每一個人都會老家裡如果有長者的話其實他事實上需要使用倫理行動不方便的話他其實也是多元平權裡面對長者的一個服務\n所以這不是身障者而且身障者的人口數你們有沒有去研究過一下他到底佔人口的百分之多少那家裡的長輩一旦用了輪椅行動不方便之後是不是就是某一種身障者所以我是不能夠接受今天院長的答案啦那我的要求我是不了解為什麼不能有一個身心障礙學者專家的諮詢委員會我講的是諮詢喔你決策委員會不要太多可以理解嗎\n諮詢委員會你能夠明確的決議有待改善追蹤機制我跟委員報告就是在這裡同仁都聽到了就是故宮一定會成立一個身心障礙的專案執行會議它這個會議的話是定期召開定期是多久定期多久的話那我們併著那個服務品質一季召開一次\n你為什麼要併一個服務品質服務品質針對所有人你又跟他併在一起你為什麼不乾脆說這個專案會議一計一次然後是不是能夠院長主持一年至少主持一次然後再來也應該是副院長代理院長跟委員報告一年一計一次對我支持沒有問題\n那既然是專案會議那你可不可以把這個會議的組成然後多久開一次然後追蹤機制人家給你意見不是說你們不做了還要找立委來幫忙問這個都能夠文字化從一個相關的辦法那在多久之內可以給本席呢一個月一個月內要文字化好不好相關辦法好謝謝院長加油\n謝謝范雲委員精彩\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.916 --> 00:05.939\n好謝謝昭偉有請院長請院長備質詢謝謝好院長早我看你在今天的報告中有講到你們做的文化平權那也有看到就是說有個身障者參與的畫面那我想繼續追問這一題那在追問前我要肯定一下就是我們看到你們去年辦了多元性別\n\n00:29.215 --> 00:53.958\n就是博物館中的就是多元性的博物館的國際線上論壇那這裡面也有看到博物館中的LGBTQIAplus的平等跟可見性那我想這是非常好的跟當代很多的議題結合那也跟博物館的國際趨勢能夠有更多的對話那肯定希望未來能夠有更多相關的規劃那它也是一種文化的平權\n\n00:55.059 --> 01:23.727\n那再來我針對今天關注的文化平權中的深藏者那我要跟院長提醒這題你看到就是說我去年3月27號就跟您質詢了那去年10月24號再次質詢然後去年底的預算案再次提出那不過很遺憾的是也要跟院長講那我不知道你們每次答應我的事情\n\n01:24.247 --> 01:33.650\n好像跟後來我收到的報告都有一個某種程度的落差我去年3月27號是質詢說你們應該要有無障礙的整體規劃機制確保決策機制的身心障礙者代表過半因為這個是國際公約了無障礙服務有一個服務應該要定期檢討院長您承諾三個月內提供規劃報告\n\n01:48.934 --> 01:50.519\n就你的報告洋洋灑灑喔除了我問的英國的VMA他們怎麼做之外\n\n01:55.450 --> 02:18.815\n講了國際的例子就把你們做過找了誰來演講然後看來演講就是三年差不多三年會邀一個相關的人來演講就講了很多現在已經有的那當然那些是很好可是我們要的不是一些單點的東西而是我們的確是收到陳情案你們之前因為那個斜坡入口邀很多山葬者可是他們感受到\n\n02:19.375 --> 02:41.504\n你們把工程的過程跟之後並沒有繼續就是給予他們當天表達的意見的回覆也沒有做到那所以才會收到澄清案那當時你承諾的部分三個月內給我規劃報告結果規劃報告裡面只有在結尾的時候講說你們已經有一個提升服務品質的專案會議會針對無障礙定期檢討也會追蹤列管可是呢如何定期也沒有告訴我們\n\n02:48.847 --> 03:11.226\n这是3月27号所以我过了半年我再次质询那次质询更夸张你们的回复我问了两题只回复就是保护的安全针对无障碍的部分完全没回也因为这样子我在去年底的预算案再次要求你们要研议我们要的是一个身心障碍平等参与机制嘛\n\n03:12.006 --> 03:32.055\n為什麼是機制?機制之後就不需要我質詢了,它會自己運作那你們也答應了今年1月31日前提供書面報告我很遺憾,今年1月31日前又沒有回覆後來我辦公室去追之後,你們才\n\n03:33.206 --> 03:40.554\n回給我們一頁的東西裡面說因為本辦去口頭洽詢所以給了我們一個相關諮詢委員會的名單名單本身我看起來當然不錯然後呢可是也沒有講機制只是說你們這個名單是個諮詢委員會好像有個委員會並且預告\n\n03:54.670 --> 03:59.835\n4月2日會辦理提升服務品質專案會議又回到原來那個專案會議說你們會在專案會議中邀請你們的所謂身心障礙諮詢委員參與然後實地勘查議程課證嚴明中\n\n04:10.766 --> 04:15.830\n哇噻已經過了快一年了然後我們再次詢問說連一個會議都還沒有開開一個會要超過一年的規劃然後終於我就請辦公室把4月2號之後開會的東西會議紀錄找來看\n\n04:29.581 --> 04:55.970\n會議就找來看之後呢我覺得這個好像不是個委員會吧看起來你們也說是座談會那本來副院長主持看起來很好可是副院長黃副院長好像只有去開場之後又交給下面的人主持那我看這個會議記錄我覺得大家都非常的感謝你們都是稱讚然後但是也說了很多不足之處那觸目驚心啊包含說你們其中有一個地方有點字對不對給盲人的服務啊\n\n04:58.211 --> 05:00.052\n但是那個是無法是錯誤的因為你們在工程的驗收的時候沒有請身障團體來檢驗所以那個是錯誤的因為點字中間距離太大這不是浪費工廠嗎\n\n05:14.936 --> 05:23.523\n你做了一個點字的東西然後我們的深藏團體現場告訴你們說距離太大所以無法辨識然後請求你們未來在檢驗工程品質的時候請他們來我覺得我們深藏團體真的很委屈對於做了一點點的事情稱讚不已對於遇到的問題我們看起來是浪費工廠的東西然後就是很委婉的要求\n\n05:42.138 --> 06:05.569\n而且副院長本來應該要全程參與我們要一個委員會像我們以前在台北市的性平委員會就是主委是市長我參加過市長只要沒有到最後我們是會檢視你這一季開一次市長來幾次副院長到了開個場就走下面的人都會看院長副院長不關心我幹嘛認真做這件事所以我想請問\n\n06:07.390 --> 06:30.567\n院長你這個委員會是個委員會嗎你們給我的書面報告針對我的預算案說你有個諮詢委員會請問那個院長委員會的定義是什麼座談會是委員會嗎先跟委員報告因為故宮之前的話有一個指導委員會後來指導委員會取消了那現在故宮的話有策展委員會然後有青少年委員會\n\n06:31.828 --> 06:37.172\n對青少年做得不錯兒童青少年做得不錯報告中有另外有警官委員會所以我們在討論這個事情的時候\n\n06:40.785 --> 07:06.522\n人事主管單位他們就提出一個講法就是說其實在組總那邊的話就不希望我們裡面呈現太多所謂的委員會就是說太多的委員會的話就會變成說他的那個業務到底要怎麼處理所以原來的話我們也在想說等一下院長您先暫停不需要太多委員會這件事我沒意見可是要犧牲的是身障者的諮詢委員會嗎他不過是諮詢不是決策我知道\n\n07:11.346 --> 07:26.742\n太多委員會是諮詢式會議會議出席費用你們付不起嗎另外的話就是說我們的那個服務品質專案會它都是一個專案會性質也沒有去成立委員會因為成立委員會就太多委員會了太多委員會的問題是什麼\n\n07:29.997 --> 07:49.534\n因為委員會這樣的一個名詞會跟部會的名詞衝突所以基本上來講的話院長委員會是你故宮下面的委員會你跟我講跟部會我知道可是又不是NCC又不是行政院組織法律的委員會是你故宮下面的委員會\n\n07:50.394 --> 08:05.903\n可是在行政的硬做上面的話都是盡量不要再成立類似委員會那你為什麼不在去年3月的時候就告訴我這樣浪費我快一年的時間答應我然後最後再應付我們我們現在不是應付不是應付你們的報告就是應付啊這個在檢討因為那時候也是想說然後還有報告不給的時間到了也沒有給我們\n\n08:13.049 --> 08:24.156\n你預算案答應今年1月31號然後最後我們拿到的是3月13號我們一直在去催然後給我們畢業的東西4月2號我們真的請了那院長你們是不是太不一致了你剛剛說不要委員會你看一下我們口頭去催你遲到的預算案答應的1月31號上面寫\n\n08:36.213 --> 08:48.858\n本院無障礙討論之相關諮詢委員會名單那你幹嘛要寫諮詢委員會名單你這樣子不是跟你現在說了不要委員會是矛盾的嗎那你為什麼要應付我呢就是說它是一個諮詢會它就不是委員會諮詢會跟委員會有什麼不同\n\n08:57.982 --> 09:16.441\n我說的是定期耶那你為什麼要在給我的上面寫諮詢委員會的名單委員名單上面就寫著諮詢委員會那是那是那你們這是你們應付立法委員的方法嗎一般的用法基本上來講的話就是有不夠精確的地方不夠精確的地方\n\n09:17.902 --> 09:22.884\n我跟委員承諾要成立一個定期的諮詢委員會基本上來講的話我跟委員打包票一定會做到因為事實上我們已經在進行了到現在我催了一年才4月2號才有一次第一次的座談會\n\n09:44.614 --> 09:56.857\n然後開起來很像是一個沒有什麼效率的座談會當然大家非常的知無不言給你們很多建議也沒有追蹤機制然後到現在下次會議就會追蹤了下次是什麼時候你預計多少開一次這種專案會議我們原則上的話就是提升服務品質的專案會議它每季的話都會召開\n\n10:10.919 --> 10:29.681\n每季都會是身障者的主題嗎都會包括在裡面因為都會包括在裡面是有身障成員就是過半嗎你過半才是能夠所以你這個部分你光是那個服務品質每季開始我個人就認為太慢了啦\n\n10:30.402 --> 10:55.591\n那照你這個標準三年邀一次一年邀一次這個進度如牛對針對不同的事情的話都會召開臨時會議我們可以把歷次開那個扶貧值會議的那個給委員基本上來講的話我現在聚焦在生長者的權益每一個人都會老家裡如果有長者的話其實他事實上需要使用倫理行動不方便的話他其實也是多元平權裡面對長者的一個服務\n\n10:59.132 --> 11:10.739\n所以這不是身障者而且身障者的人口數你們有沒有去研究過一下他到底佔人口的百分之多少那家裡的長輩一旦用了輪椅行動不方便之後是不是就是某一種身障者所以我是不能夠接受今天院長的答案啦那我的要求我是不了解為什麼不能有一個身心障礙學者專家的諮詢委員會我講的是諮詢喔你決策委員會不要太多可以理解嗎\n\n11:27.648 --> 11:55.715\n諮詢委員會你能夠明確的決議有待改善追蹤機制我跟委員報告就是在這裡同仁都聽到了就是故宮一定會成立一個身心障礙的專案執行會議它這個會議的話是定期召開定期是多久定期多久的話那我們併著那個服務品質一季召開一次\n\n11:56.681 --> 12:16.835\n你為什麼要併一個服務品質服務品質針對所有人你又跟他併在一起你為什麼不乾脆說這個專案會議一計一次然後是不是能夠院長主持一年至少主持一次然後再來也應該是副院長代理院長跟委員報告一年一計一次對我支持沒有問題\n\n12:18.657 --> 12:41.493\n那既然是專案會議那你可不可以把這個會議的組成然後多久開一次然後追蹤機制人家給你意見不是說你們不做了還要找立委來幫忙問這個都能夠文字化從一個相關的辦法那在多久之內可以給本席呢一個月一個月內要文字化好不好相關辦法好謝謝院長加油\n\n12:48.766 --> 12:50.018\n謝謝范雲委員精彩\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.916,"end":5.939,"text":"好 謝謝昭偉 有請院長請院長備質詢 謝謝好 院長早我看你在今天的報告中有講到你們做的文化平權那也有看到就是說有個身障者參與的畫面那我想繼續追問這一題那在追問前我要肯定一下就是我們看到你們去年辦了多元性別"},{"start":29.215,"end":53.958,"text":"就是博物館中的就是多元性的博物館的國際線上論壇那這裡面也有看到博物館中的LGBTQIA plus的平等跟可見性那我想這是非常好的跟當代很多的議題結合那也跟博物館的國際趨勢能夠有更多的對話那肯定希望未來能夠有更多相關的規劃那它也是一種文化的平權"},{"start":55.059,"end":83.727,"text":"那再來我針對今天關注的文化平權中的深藏者那我要跟院長提醒這題你看到就是說我去年3月27號就跟您質詢了那去年10月24號再次質詢然後去年底的預算案再次提出那不過很遺憾的是也要跟院長講那我不知道你們每次答應我的事情"},{"start":84.247,"end":93.65,"text":"好像跟後來我收到的報告都有一個某種程度的落差我去年3月27號是質詢說你們應該要有無障礙的整體規劃機制確保決策機制的身心障礙者代表過半因為這個是國際公約了無障礙服務有一個服務應該要定期檢討院長您承諾三個月內提供規劃報告"},{"start":108.934,"end":110.519,"text":"就你的報告洋洋灑灑喔除了我問的英國的VMA他們怎麼做之外"},{"start":115.45,"end":138.815,"text":"講了國際的例子就把你們做過找了誰來演講然後看來演講就是三年差不多三年會邀一個相關的人來演講就講了很多現在已經有的那當然那些是很好可是我們要的不是一些單點的東西而是我們的確是收到陳情案你們之前因為那個斜坡入口邀很多山葬者可是他們感受到"},{"start":139.375,"end":161.504,"text":"你們把工程的過程跟之後並沒有繼續就是給予他們當天表達的意見的回覆也沒有做到那所以才會收到澄清案那當時你承諾的部分三個月內給我規劃報告結果規劃報告裡面只有在結尾的時候講說你們已經有一個提升服務品質的專案會議會針對無障礙定期檢討也會追蹤列管可是呢如何定期也沒有告訴我們"},{"start":168.847,"end":191.226,"text":"这是3月27号所以我过了半年我再次质询那次质询更夸张你们的回复我问了两题只回复就是保护的安全针对无障碍的部分完全没回也因为这样子我在去年底的预算案再次要求你们要研议我们要的是一个身心障碍平等参与机制嘛"},{"start":192.006,"end":212.055,"text":"為什麼是機制?機制之後就不需要我質詢了,它會自己運作那你們也答應了今年1月31日前提供書面報告我很遺憾,今年1月31日前又沒有回覆後來我辦公室去追之後,你們才"},{"start":213.206,"end":220.554,"text":"回給我們一頁的東西裡面說因為本辦去口頭洽詢所以給了我們一個相關諮詢委員會的名單名單本身我看起來當然不錯然後呢可是也沒有講機制只是說你們這個名單是個諮詢委員會好像有個委員會並且預告"},{"start":234.67,"end":239.835,"text":"4月2日會辦理提升服務品質專案會議又回到原來那個專案會議說你們會在專案會議中邀請你們的所謂身心障礙諮詢委員參與然後實地勘查議程課證嚴明中"},{"start":250.766,"end":255.83,"text":"哇噻 已經過了快一年了然後我們再次詢問說連一個會議都還沒有開開一個會要超過一年的規劃然後終於我就請辦公室把4月2號之後開會的東西會議紀錄找來看"},{"start":269.581,"end":295.97,"text":"會議就找來看之後呢我覺得這個好像不是個委員會吧看起來你們也說是座談會那本來副院長主持看起來很好可是副院長黃副院長好像只有去開場之後又交給下面的人主持那我看這個會議記錄我覺得大家都非常的感謝你們都是稱讚然後但是也說了很多不足之處那觸目驚心啊包含說你們其中有一個地方有點字對不對給盲人的服務啊"},{"start":298.211,"end":300.052,"text":"但是那個是無法是錯誤的因為你們在工程的驗收的時候沒有請身障團體來檢驗所以那個是錯誤的因為點字中間距離太大這不是浪費工廠嗎"},{"start":314.936,"end":323.523,"text":"你做了一個點字的東西然後我們的深藏團體現場告訴你們說距離太大所以無法辨識然後請求你們未來在檢驗工程品質的時候請他們來我覺得我們深藏團體真的很委屈對於做了一點點的事情稱讚不已對於遇到的問題我們看起來是浪費工廠的東西然後就是很委婉的要求"},{"start":342.138,"end":365.569,"text":"而且副院長本來應該要全程參與我們要一個委員會像我們以前在台北市的性平委員會就是主委是市長我參加過市長只要沒有到最後我們是會檢視你這一季開一次市長來幾次副院長到了開個場就走下面的人都會看院長副院長不關心我幹嘛認真做這件事所以我想請問"},{"start":367.39,"end":390.567,"text":"院長你這個委員會是個委員會嗎你們給我的書面報告針對我的預算案說你有個諮詢委員會請問那個院長委員會的定義是什麼座談會是委員會嗎先跟委員報告因為故宮之前的話有一個指導委員會後來指導委員會取消了那現在故宮的話有策展委員會然後有青少年委員會"},{"start":391.828,"end":397.172,"text":"對 青少年做得不錯 兒童青少年做得不錯報告中有另外有警官委員會所以我們在討論這個事情的時候"},{"start":400.785,"end":426.522,"text":"人事主管單位他們就提出一個講法就是說其實在組總那邊的話就不希望我們裡面呈現太多所謂的委員會就是說太多的委員會的話就會變成說他的那個業務到底要怎麼處理所以原來的話我們也在想說等一下院長您先暫停不需要太多委員會這件事我沒意見可是要犧牲的是身障者的諮詢委員會嗎他不過是諮詢不是決策我知道"},{"start":431.346,"end":446.742,"text":"太多委員會是諮詢式會議會議出席費用你們付不起嗎另外的話就是說我們的那個服務品質專案會它都是一個專案會性質也沒有去成立委員會因為成立委員會就太多委員會了太多委員會的問題是什麼"},{"start":449.997,"end":469.534,"text":"因為委員會這樣的一個名詞會跟部會的名詞衝突所以基本上來講的話院長 委員會是你故宮下面的委員會你跟我講跟部會我知道 可是又不是NCC 又不是行政院組織法律的委員會是你故宮下面的委員會"},{"start":470.394,"end":485.903,"text":"可是在行政的硬做上面的話都是盡量不要再成立類似委員會那你為什麼不在去年3月的時候就告訴我這樣浪費我快一年的時間答應我然後最後再應付我們我們現在不是應付不是應付你們的報告就是應付啊這個在檢討因為那時候也是想說然後還有報告不給的時間到了也沒有給我們"},{"start":493.049,"end":504.156,"text":"你預算案答應今年1月31號然後最後我們拿到的是3月13號我們一直在去催然後給我們畢業的東西4月2號我們真的請了那院長你們是不是太不一致了你剛剛說不要委員會你看一下我們口頭去催你遲到的預算案答應的1月31號上面寫"},{"start":516.213,"end":528.858,"text":"本院無障礙討論之相關諮詢委員會名單那你幹嘛要寫諮詢委員會名單你這樣子不是跟你現在說了不要委員會是矛盾的嗎那你為什麼要應付我呢就是說它是一個諮詢會它就不是委員會諮詢會跟委員會有什麼不同"},{"start":537.982,"end":556.441,"text":"我說的是定期耶那你為什麼要在給我的上面寫諮詢委員會的名單委員名單上面就寫著諮詢委員會那是那是那你們這是你們應付立法委員的方法嗎一般的用法基本上來講的話就是有不夠精確的地方不夠精確的地方"},{"start":557.902,"end":562.884,"text":"我跟委員承諾要成立一個定期的諮詢委員會基本上來講的話我跟委員打包票一定會做到因為事實上我們已經在進行了到現在我催了一年才4月2號才有一次第一次的座談會"},{"start":584.614,"end":596.857,"text":"然後開起來很像是一個沒有什麼效率的座談會當然大家非常的知無不言給你們很多建議也沒有追蹤機制然後到現在下次會議就會追蹤了下次是什麼時候你預計多少開一次這種專案會議我們原則上的話就是提升服務品質的專案會議它每季的話都會召開"},{"start":610.919,"end":629.681,"text":"每季都會是身障者的主題嗎都會包括在裡面因為都會包括在裡面是有身障成員就是過半嗎你過半才是能夠所以你這個部分你光是那個服務品質每季開始我個人就認為太慢了啦"},{"start":630.402,"end":655.591,"text":"那照你這個標準三年邀一次一年邀一次這個進度如牛對 針對不同的事情的話都會召開臨時會議我們可以把歷次開那個扶貧值會議的那個給委員基本上來講的話我現在聚焦在生長者的權益每一個人都會老家裡如果有長者的話其實他事實上需要使用倫理行動不方便的話他其實也是多元平權裡面對長者的一個服務"},{"start":659.132,"end":670.739,"text":"所以這不是身障者而且身障者的人口數你們有沒有去研究過一下他到底佔人口的百分之多少那家裡的長輩一旦用了輪椅行動不方便之後是不是就是某一種身障者所以我是不能夠接受今天院長的答案啦那我的要求我是不了解為什麼不能有一個身心障礙學者專家的諮詢委員會我講的是諮詢喔你決策委員會不要太多可以理解嗎"},{"start":687.648,"end":715.715,"text":"諮詢委員會你能夠明確的決議有待改善追蹤機制我跟委員報告就是在這裡同仁都聽到了就是故宮一定會成立一個身心障礙的專案執行會議它這個會議的話是定期召開定期是多久定期多久的話那我們併著那個服務品質一季召開一次"},{"start":716.681,"end":736.835,"text":"你為什麼要併一個服務品質服務品質針對所有人你又跟他併在一起你為什麼不乾脆說這個專案會議一計一次然後是不是能夠院長主持一年至少主持一次然後再來也應該是副院長代理院長跟委員報告一年一計一次對我支持沒有問題"},{"start":738.657,"end":761.493,"text":"那既然是專案會議那你可不可以把這個會議的組成然後多久開一次然後追蹤機制人家給你意見不是說你們不做了還要找立委來幫忙問這個都能夠文字化從一個相關的辦法那在多久之內可以給本席呢一個月一個月內要文字化好不好相關辦法好謝謝院長加油"},{"start":768.766,"end":770.018,"text":"謝謝范雲委員精彩"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":394,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（10時38分）謝謝召委，有請院長。"],["主席：請院長備詢，謝謝。"],["范委員雲：院長早。你在今天的報告中有講到你們做的文化平權，我也看到有身障者參與的畫面，我想繼續追問這一題。在追問之前我要肯定一下，你們去年辦了多元性別博物館國際線上論壇，主題是「博物館中的LGBTQIA+的平等與可見性」，這是非常好的，跟當代很多議題結合，也跟博物館的國際趨勢能夠有更多的對話，本席肯定，希望未來能夠有更多相關的規劃，它也是一種文化的平權。","再來，針對今天關注的文化平權中的身障者，我要跟院長提醒這一題。你看到我去年3月27號就跟您質詢，去年10月24號再次質詢，然後在去年底的預算提案再次提出，不過很遺憾的是也要跟院長講，我不知道你們每次答應我的事情，好像跟後來我收到的報告都有某種程度的落差。我去年3月27號是質詢說，你們應該要有無障礙整體規劃機制、確保決策機制的身心障礙者代表過半，因為這個是國際公約，還有無障礙服務應該要定期檢討。院長您承諾三個月內提供規劃報告，結果你的報告洋洋灑灑，除了我問的英國的V＆A他們怎麼做之外，講了國際的例子，就把你們做過的，找了誰來演講，看來演講就是差不多三年會邀一個相關的人來演講，結果講了很多現在已經有的，當然那些是很好，可是我們要的不是一些單點的東西，我們的確是收到陳情案。你們之前因為那個斜坡入口邀很多身障者，可是他們感受到有關工程的過程，你們之後並沒有針對他們當天表達的意見給予回復，這個也沒有做到，所以才會收到陳情案。當時你承諾的是三個月內給我規劃報告，結果規劃報告裡面只有在結尾的時候講說，你們已經有一個提升服務品質的專案會議，會針對無障礙服務定期檢討，也會追蹤列管，可是如何定期也沒有告訴我們，這是3月27號的質詢。","過了半年我再次質詢，那次質詢更誇張，我問了兩題，你們只回復保護文物的安全，針對無障礙的部分完全沒回復，也因為這樣，我在去年底的預算提案再次要求你們要研議，我們要的是一個身心障礙平等參與機制，為什麼是機制？有機制之後就不需要我質詢了，它會自己運作。你們也答應了今年1月31日前提供書面報告，但我很遺憾，今年1月31日前又沒有回復，我辦公室去追之後，你們才回給我們1頁的東西，這裡面是說，因為本辦有口頭洽詢，所以給了我們一個相關諮詢委員會的名單，名單本身我看起來當然不錯，可是也沒有講機制，只是說你們這個名單是個諮詢委員會，好像有個委員會，並且預告4月2日會辦理提升服務品質專案會議。又回到原來那個專案會議，說你們會在專案會議中邀請你們的所謂身心障礙諮詢委員參與，然後實地勘查，議程刻正研擬中。","沒想到已經過了快一年，我們再次詢問的時候，連一個會議都還沒有開，開一個會要超過一年的規劃，然後我就請辦公室把4月2號之後開會的會議紀錄找來看，把會議紀錄找來看之後，我覺得這個好像不是個委員會吧！看起來你們也說是座談會，本來是副院長主持，看起來很好，可是黃副院長好像只有去開場，之後又交給下面的人主持。看了這個會議紀錄之後，我覺得大家都非常感謝你們，都是稱讚，但是也說了很多不足之處，怵目驚心，包含你們其中有一個地方有點字、給盲人的服務，但是那個是錯誤的，因為你們在工程驗收的時候沒有請身障團體來檢驗，所以那個是錯誤的，因為點字中間距離太大，這不是浪費公帑嗎？你做了一個點字的東西，然後我們的身障團體現場告訴你們說距離太大，所以無法辨識，然後請求你們未來在檢驗工程品質的時候請他們來。我覺得我們身障團體真的很委屈，對於做了一點點的事情就稱讚不已，對於遇到的問題，我們看起來是浪費公帑的東西，就是很委婉的要求，而且副院長本來應該要全程參與嘛。我們要一個委員會，像我們以前在臺北市的性平委員會，主委是市長，我參加過，市長只要沒有到，最後我們會檢視一季開一次，市長來幾次。副院長到了，開個場就走，下面的人都會看嘛，院長、副院長不關心，我幹嘛認真做這件事？所以我想請問院長，你這個委員會是個委員會嗎？你們給我的書面報告，針對我的預算提案說明你們有一個諮詢委員會。請問院長，委員會的定義是什麼？座談會是委員會嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：先跟委員報告，因為故宮之前有一個指導委員會，後來指導委員會取消了，現在故宮有策展委員會、青少年委員會，另外……"],["范委員雲：對，青少年做得不錯，兒童、青少年做得不錯，報告中有寫。"],["蕭院長宗煌：另外有景觀委員會，所以我們在討論這個事情的時候，人事主管單位他們就提出一個講法，其實在主總那邊就不希望我們裡面呈現太多所謂的委員會，就是說太多委員會的話，就會變成他的業務到底要怎麼處理，所以原來我們也在講說……"],["范委員雲：不需要？等一下，院長您先暫停，不需要太多委員會這件事我沒意見，可是要犧牲的是身障者的諮詢委員會嗎？這不過是諮詢，不是決策欸！"],["蕭院長宗煌：我知道，諮詢會也是一個委員會。"],["范委員雲：太多委員會，是諮詢……是會議出席費用你們出不起嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：另外，我們的服務品質專案會議都是一個專案會議性質，也沒有去成立委員會，因為成立委員會就太多委員會了。"],["范委員雲：太多委員會的問題是什麼？"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為委員會這樣的一個名詞，會跟部會的那個名詞衝突，所以基本上來講……"],["范委員雲：院長，委員會是你故宮下面的委員會，你跟我講跟部會……"],["蕭院長宗煌：我知道、我知道，可是……"],["范委員雲：又不是NCC，它又不是行政院組織法裡面的委員會，是你故宮下面的委員會。"],["蕭院長宗煌：我知道，可是在行政的運作上面，都是儘量不要再成立類似委員會，因為行政院也成立很多委員會。"],["范委員雲：那你為什麼不在去年3月的時候就這樣告訴我？浪費我快一年的時間，答應我了，然後最後再應付我們。"],["蕭院長宗煌：不是，我們現在不是應付，就是說……"],["范委員雲：不是應付？你們的報告就是應付啊！"],["蕭院長宗煌：這個再檢討，因為那時候也是想說……"],["范委員雲：然後還有報告不給的，時間到了也沒有給我們，預算提案的部分你是答應今年1月31號前，最後我們拿到的是，3月13號我們一直去催，然後給我們1頁的東西。"],["蕭院長宗煌：4月2號我們真的辦理……"],["范委員雲：等一下，院長，你們是不是太不一致了？你剛剛說不要委員會，你看一下我們口頭去催的，你遲到的、針對預算提案答應1月31號前提供的，上面寫的是，本院無障礙討論之相關諮詢委員會名單，那你幹嘛要寫諮詢委員會名單？"],["蕭院長宗煌：所以這個就會出現……"],["范委員雲：你這樣子不是跟你現在說不要委員會是矛盾的嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，就會出現那樣的矛盾，所以現在就是……"],["范委員雲：那你為什麼要應付我呢？"],["蕭院長宗煌：報告委員，不是應付，就是說它是一個諮詢會，它就不是委員會。"],["范委員雲：諮詢會跟委員會有什麼不同？我說的是定期，那你為什麼要在給我的回復上面寫諮詢委員會的委員名單？上面就寫著諮詢委員會！"],["蕭院長宗煌：那是……"],["范委員雲：這是你們應付立法委員的方法嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：不是、不是，一般的用法，基本上來講，就是有不夠精確的地方……"],["范委員雲：不夠精確的地方？院長，我請你……"],["蕭院長宗煌：我跟委員承諾，就是說OK、好，要成立一個定期的身心障礙的諮詢會……"],["范委員雲：是諮詢，不是決策，是諮詢委員會。"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上來講，我跟委員打包票，一定會做到，因為事實上我們已經在進行了，而且名單……"],["范委員雲：沒有，到現在我催了一年，4月2號才有第一次的座談會，然後開起來很像是一個沒有什麼效率的座談會，當然大家非常的知無不言，給你們很多建議，也沒有追蹤機制，然後到現在……"],["蕭院長宗煌：下次會議就會追蹤了。"],["范委員雲：下次是什麼時候？你預計多久開一次這種專案會議？"],["蕭院長宗煌：原則上，提升服務品質的專案會議每季都會召開。"],["范委員雲：每季都會是身障者的主題嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：都會包括在裡面，因為……"],["范委員雲：都會包括在裡面是有身障成員過半嗎？你過半才是能夠……所以你這個部分光是那個服務品質每季開一次，我個人就認為太慢了，照你這個標準，三年邀一次、一年邀一次，這個進度牛步……"],["蕭院長宗煌：針對不同的事情都會召開臨時會議，我們可以把歷次開服務品質會議的狀況提供給委員，基本上來講……"],["范委員雲：我現在是聚焦在身障者的權益！每一個人都會老，家裡如果有長者的話，他事實上需要使用輪椅、行動不方便的話，這其實也是多元平權裡面對長者的一個服務，所以這不是身障者，而且身障者的人口數你們有沒有去研究過？到底占人口的百分之多少？家裡的長輩一旦用了輪椅、行動不方便之後，是不是就是某一種身障者？所以我是不能夠接受今天院長的答案，而我的要求，我是不了解為什麼不能有一個身心障礙學者專家的諮詢委員會，我講的是諮詢，決策委員會不要太多是可以理解的，而諮詢委員會，你能夠明確的決議，有待改善、追蹤機制……"],["蕭院長宗煌：我跟委員報告，在這裡同仁都聽到了，就是故宮一定會成立一個身心障礙的專案諮詢會議，這個會議是定期召開。"],["范委員雲：定期是多久？"],["蕭院長宗煌：定期是多久，那我們併著服務品質一季召開一次。"],["范委員雲：你為什麼要併服務品質？服務品質是針對所有人，你要跟它併在一起！你為什麼不乾脆說這個專案會議一季一次？然後是不是能夠院長主持、一年至少主持一次？再來也應該是副院長代理院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：好，跟委員報告，一年、一季一次都我主持沒有問題。"],["范委員雲：好，既然是專案會議，那你可不可以把這個會議的組成、多久開一次，以及追蹤機制，人家給你意見，不是說你們不做，然後還要找立委來幫忙問，這個都能夠文字化，有一個相關的辦法，那在多久之內可以給本席？"],["蕭院長宗煌：一個月。"],["范委員雲：一個月內嘛！"],["蕭院長宗煌：對。"],["范委員雲：要文字化，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對。"],["范委員雲：相關辦法。"],["蕭院長宗煌：好。"],["范委員雲：好，謝謝院長，加油。"],["主席：謝謝范雲委員精彩絕倫的質詢，也謝謝院長的承諾，希望這個部分大家一起努力。","接下來我們有請郭昱晴委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":372,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-9","speakers":["葛如鈞","萬美玲","柯志恩","劉書彬","林宜瑾","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","吳沛憶","范雲","郭昱晴","陳冠廷","葉元之","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林沛祥","張雅琳"],"page_start":315,"meetingDate":["2025-04-30"],"gazette_id":"1144301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144301_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國立故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144301_00007"}}}