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\"end\": 87.065, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 88.266, \"end\": 114.612, \"text\": \"那很多都屬於複合式的災害除了這個高峰墜落過程裡面其實很多都是複合式的災害那近期也做了很多檢討包括今天的檢討裡面也認為包括可能原因有工程設計為考量施工安全風險之下所造成的問題那工程安慰資源投入不足還有工程平行分包缺乏統合管理機制等等這個所造成的一些問題\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 88.266, \"end\": 88.426, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 88.426, \"end\": 88.586, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 88.586, \"end\": 88.826, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 88.826, \"end\": 89.206, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 89.206, \"end\": 89.566, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"複\"}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 89.566, \"end\": 89.746, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 89.746, \"end\": 89.886, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 89.886, \"end\": 90.266, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"災\"}, {\"word\": \"害\", \"start\": 90.266, \"end\": 90.887, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 90.887, \"end\": 91.067, 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\"第三個是記錄表單讓他更彈性簡易第四個就是要依照行行業的這個特性來提供健康指引那第五點就是提供充分的訓練資源來強化溝通跟推廣訓練等等那這部分很具體的是針對於未來比較大型的這個具有多的勞工同仁的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 406.678, \"end\": 406.818, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 406.818, \"end\": 407.078, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 407.078, \"end\": 407.659, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"記\"}, {\"word\": \"錄\"}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 407.659, \"end\": 408.499, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 408.499, \"end\": 408.7, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 408.7, \"end\": 409.04, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"彈\"}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 409.04, \"end\": 409.46, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"易\", \"start\": 409.46, \"end\": 410.001, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 410.001, \"end\": 410.181, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"四\", \"start\": 410.181, \"end\": 410.441, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 421.549, \"end\": 421.789, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 421.789, \"end\": 422.109, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 422.109, \"end\": 422.25, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 422.25, \"end\": 422.47, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 422.47, \"end\": 423.15, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 423.15, \"end\": 424.031, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 424.031, \"end\": 424.371, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 424.371, \"end\": 424.611, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"型\", \"start\": 424.611, \"end\": 424.811, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 424.811, \"end\": 425.432, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 425.432, \"end\": 425.652, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 425.652, \"end\": 426.533, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 426.533, \"end\": 426.733, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 426.733, \"end\": 427.373, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 427.373, \"end\": 427.553, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 427.553, \"end\": 427.754, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"仁\", \"start\": 427.754, \"end\": 427.874, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 427.874, \"end\": 427.894, \"score\": 0.973}]}, {\"start\": 428.394, \"end\": 441.896, \"text\": \"健康服務的過程裡面希望有更好的一個政策上的推行那這部分不知道部長有沒有其他的建議或者是有沒有可能在一個月裡面給我們一份這個政策建議可行性的報告平息\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"健\", \"start\": 428.394, \"end\": 428.635, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"康\", \"start\": 428.635, \"end\": 429.155, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"服\", \"start\": 429.155, \"end\": 429.416, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 429.416, \"end\": 429.696, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 429.696, \"end\": 430.057, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 430.057, \"end\": 430.578, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 430.578, \"end\": 430.778, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 430.778, \"end\": 430.958, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 430.958, \"end\": 431.139, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 431.139, \"end\": 431.359, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 431.359, \"end\": 431.639, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 431.639, \"end\": 431.8, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 431.8, \"end\": 432.02, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 432.02, \"end\": 432.2, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 432.2, \"end\": 432.361, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 432.361, \"end\": 432.541, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 432.541, \"end\": 432.661, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 432.661, \"end\": 432.902, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 432.902, \"end\": 433.402, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 433.402, \"end\": 433.703, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 433.703, \"end\": 433.843, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 433.843, \"end\": 434.324, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 434.324, \"end\": 434.404, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 434.404, \"end\": 434.444, \"score\": 0.518}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 434.444, \"end\": 434.644, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 434.644, \"end\": 435.165, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 435.165, \"end\": 435.305, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 435.305, \"end\": 435.446, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 435.446, \"end\": 435.646, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 435.646, \"end\": 435.766, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 435.766, \"end\": 435.926, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 435.926, \"end\": 436.027, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 436.027, \"end\": 436.307, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 436.307, \"end\": 436.467, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 436.467, \"end\": 436.668, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 436.668, \"end\": 437.249, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 437.249, \"end\": 437.349, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 437.349, \"end\": 437.449, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 437.449, \"end\": 437.589, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 437.589, \"end\": 437.709, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 437.709, \"end\": 437.789, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 437.789, \"end\": 437.97, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 437.97, \"end\": 438.25, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 438.25, \"end\": 438.591, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 438.591, \"end\": 439.272, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 439.272, \"end\": 439.392, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 439.392, \"end\": 439.592, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"份\", \"start\": 439.592, \"end\": 440.013, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 440.013, \"end\": 440.173, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 440.173, \"end\": 440.374, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 440.374, \"end\": 440.694, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 440.694, \"end\": 440.814, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 440.814, \"end\": 440.975, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 440.975, \"end\": 441.135, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 441.135, \"end\": 441.435, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 441.435, \"end\": 441.636, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 441.636, \"end\": 441.876, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 441.876, \"end\": 441.896, \"score\": 0.006}]}, {\"start\": 443.226, \"end\": 468.963, \"text\": \"包圍沒問題這部分我們已經努力在做這個部分就麻煩對真的健康服務的部分可以再加強好那第三個部分就是要跟部長討論一下鼓勵企業來提供勞工癌篩還有這個癌後的後續協助因為我們知道其實很多勞工朋友他們有一個癌症是跟他們的職業\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 443.226, \"end\": 443.466, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"圍\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 443.466, \"end\": 444.127, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 444.127, \"end\": 444.247, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 444.247, \"end\": 444.347, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 444.347, \"end\": 444.747, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 444.747, \"end\": 444.847, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 444.847, \"end\": 444.967, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 444.967, \"end\": 445.087, \"score\": 0.737}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 445.087, \"end\": 445.207, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 445.207, \"end\": 447.349, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 447.349, \"end\": 447.469, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 447.469, \"end\": 447.629, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 447.629, \"end\": 447.889, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"麻\", \"start\": 447.889, \"end\": 448.75, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"煩\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 448.75, \"end\": 448.87, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 448.87, \"end\": 449.03, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"健\", \"start\": 449.03, \"end\": 449.25, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"康\", \"start\": 449.25, \"end\": 449.55, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"服\", \"start\": 449.55, \"end\": 449.871, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 449.871, \"end\": 450.031, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 450.031, \"end\": 450.251, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 450.251, \"end\": 450.851, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 450.851, \"end\": 450.931, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 450.931, \"end\": 450.971, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 450.971, \"end\": 451.151, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 451.151, \"end\": 453.233, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 453.233, \"end\": 453.693, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 453.693, \"end\": 453.853, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 453.853, \"end\": 453.973, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 453.973, \"end\": 454.234, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 454.234, \"end\": 454.374, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 454.374, \"end\": 454.534, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 454.534, \"end\": 454.674, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 454.674, \"end\": 454.774, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 454.774, \"end\": 455.054, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 455.054, \"end\": 456.275, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 456.275, \"end\": 456.795, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 456.795, \"end\": 456.875, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 456.875, \"end\": 457.135, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"鼓\", \"start\": 457.135, \"end\": 457.516, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"勵\"}, {\"word\": \"企\", \"start\": 457.516, \"end\": 458.496, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 458.496, \"end\": 458.657, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 458.657, \"end\": 459.257, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 459.257, \"end\": 460.017, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"癌\", \"start\": 460.017, \"end\": 460.778, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"篩\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 460.778, \"end\": 461.358, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"癌\", \"start\": 461.358, \"end\": 461.598, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 461.598, \"end\": 461.779, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 461.779, \"end\": 462.459, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 462.459, \"end\": 462.739, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 462.739, \"end\": 463.38, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 463.38, \"end\": 463.56, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 463.56, \"end\": 463.7, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 463.7, \"end\": 463.8, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 463.8, \"end\": 464.08, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 464.08, \"end\": 464.901, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 464.901, \"end\": 465.041, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 465.041, \"end\": 465.321, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 465.321, \"end\": 465.481, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"朋\", \"start\": 465.481, \"end\": 465.681, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"友\", \"start\": 465.681, \"end\": 466.182, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 466.182, \"end\": 467.182, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 467.182, \"end\": 467.302, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 467.302, \"end\": 467.502, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"癌\", \"start\": 467.502, \"end\": 467.683, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"症\", \"start\": 467.683, \"end\": 468.283, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"是\", 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00:01:05,088\n我們每一年就有那麼多的家庭變成一個永恆的沉痛永恆的心痛所以真的我想今天的委員們都非常非常的期待未來如何能夠減少這樣的事故的發生所以今天就根據三個主題來跟部長還有署長來討論一下\n\n4\n00:01:08,830 --> 00:01:27,065\n其實職災一直都是大家非常關心的議題所以在這個過程裡面預防還有責任的釐清是很重要的那我們也知道說在過去這麼多年來所發生的這個職災的這個死亡人數其實是讓我們很心驚膽跳\n\n5\n00:01:28,266 --> 00:01:54,612\n那很多都屬於複合式的災害除了這個高峰墜落過程裡面其實很多都是複合式的災害那近期也做了很多檢討包括今天的檢討裡面也認為包括可能原因有工程設計為考量施工安全風險之下所造成的問題那工程安慰資源投入不足還有工程平行分包缺乏統合管理機制等等這個所造成的一些問題\n\n6\n00:01:55,712 --> 00:02:18,760\n那包括在前一段時間全年的台中大肚倉儲的火災案這個就是很典型的一個屬於複合性的災害的問題那最後的結果反而是被起訴的對象不包括全年或者是負責工程的廠商反而是派駐在現場的空調配管工程人員跟員工被起訴受到影響\n\n7\n00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:42,153\n所以前署長才會感嘆說未來就是誰創造風險誰就要負責管理請問一下部長未來勞動部要如何讓企業主還有營造廠都能夠被克制並確實負擔起管理跟預防職災的責任雖然已經有過那麼多的委員\n\n8\n00:02:43,214 --> 00:02:59,153\n跟你要求要做這方面的處理那可不可以請部長在針對這樣的狀況再進一步說明跟王老師說明我們確實這段時間其實也檢討確實很多我們看到的重大的\n\n9\n00:03:00,934 --> 00:03:21,963\n這個職安或公安的事件裡面很難去苛責業主的責任所以這一次其實也是在我們的法規的修訂裡面把業主的責任其實給放進去一個是業主的責任那業主尤其他該擔負起包括其實在一開始的時候就要做相關的風險評估按照風險評估來做施工的執行\n\n10\n00:03:23,063 --> 00:03:49,742\n第二個是其實我們也看到很多這個整個大家其實都提到乘風轉包的問題乘風轉包他的風險跟他的責任就可能會被一直的轉嫁或者是切割最後反而會發生很難救責的狀況或者是這整個工地的這個責任是一個散亂的這個狀況所以我們這次修法裡面也放入要求這個法規裡面直接要要求我們其中一個這個承包商要做\n\n11\n00:03:50,402 --> 00:04:08,320\n統合性這個相關的統合的這個責任必須要指定一個廠商來做這件事情的部分那這也是在回應我們目前在工地的現場看到的這些這些工地的文化或者是他們的這個樣態其實給予相關的制度修訂的回應對是\n\n12\n00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:25,262\n所以未來有沒有機會針對某一些特定的剛有提到一些民間工程或者是屬於政府部門的工程在風險上如果有機會先了解它的這個風險是非常高的話那有沒有機會先去做臨場的管理\n\n13\n00:04:26,763 --> 00:04:45,697\n這部分不知道這個其實就是我們在講的源頭的管理的部分業主在一開始源頭的時候他就要在做這個風險相關的掌握甚至相關的風險的評估設計跟管理這其實就是我們在說的在源頭管理他就必須要科與他做這個責任如果沒有做那就要開罰\n\n14\n00:04:47,096 --> 00:05:12,564\n因為我們了解現在的建築物越來越在設計上的風格為了要凸顯它的特色所以我們從它的設計圖就可以理解它的風險尤其是在高空最多的風險可能是非常非常高的這部分我的意思就是說有沒有機會當它開始有這個設計圖出現的時候其實相關單位就能夠掌握到未來這個風險極高之下是不是應該要極淺\n\n15\n00:05:13,684 --> 00:05:40,986\n這是我們剛才說的他其實在規劃設計的階段他就要在一開始的時候就把風險的評估跟風險管理的方式他就要把它給做出來他有責任必須做出來也不能再迴避這件事情OK好那就麻煩這部分要再加強OK謝謝那第二部分就要跟部長來討論一下這個強化勞工健康服務的部分因為我來自醫界所以一直對於這個勞工的這個健康服務其實\n\n16\n00:05:41,767 --> 00:05:56,384\n一直都有很深的感受那在去年6月我們有看到這個職業安全衛生研究所也出了一份報告不知道部長有沒有機會去了解這份報告這份報告主要是針對於從\n\n17\n00:05:58,606 --> 00:06:23,122\n2011年開始針對300人的員工以上的這個部分做實施臨場健康服務以來把這個十幾年來的這些經驗匯整以後針對於在這個過程裡面勞工健康服務的效益做一個評估那這個評估裡面也特別在訪談了145家比較具有特別危害健康作業職場的這些勞工的這個服務的人員\n\n18\n00:06:28,145 --> 00:06:45,397\n指安慰的這些同仁做了相關的這個了解跟調查那其中他有整理出了九點的政策建議那包括有五大點就是第一個是要調整定這個成效的指標第二個就是要修正勞工健康保護的規則\n\n19\n00:06:46,678 --> 00:07:07,894\n第三個是記錄表單讓他更彈性簡易第四個就是要依照行行業的這個特性來提供健康指引那第五點就是提供充分的訓練資源來強化溝通跟推廣訓練等等那這部分很具體的是針對於未來比較大型的這個具有多的勞工同仁的\n\n20\n00:07:08,394 --> 00:07:21,896\n健康服務的過程裡面希望有更好的一個政策上的推行那這部分不知道部長有沒有其他的建議或者是有沒有可能在一個月裡面給我們一份這個政策建議可行性的報告平息\n\n21\n00:07:23,226 --> 00:07:48,963\n包圍沒問題這部分我們已經努力在做這個部分就麻煩對真的健康服務的部分可以再加強好那第三個部分就是要跟部長討論一下鼓勵企業來提供勞工癌篩還有這個癌後的後續協助因為我們知道其實很多勞工朋友他們有一個癌症是跟他們的職業\n\n22\n00:07:50,124 --> 00:08:11,170\n跟他們的生活習慣是有非常大的關係就是口腔癌那針對於我們這個剛剛所提到那份報告裡面就是健康服務裡面是不是能夠更加強尤其是像跟這個勞工朋友比較有相關的這個口腔癌的服務因為我們知道其實很多的勞工朋友他們不是不願意去篩檢\n\n23\n00:08:12,310 --> 00:08:26,778\n他們很擔心篩檢以後萬一被診斷癌症造成了困擾干擾還有他們未來的這個就業等等會不會受到很多影響因為我們知道其實口腔癌的病人他\n\n24\n00:08:27,498 --> 00:08:49,077\n目前的治療之下它其實可以提供有好的一個癒後將近有五成到六成的這些勞工朋友其實他的口腔癌經過處理就可以改善了可是當然也有一些是比較晚期的病人平均之下預期有一個診斷口腔癌的勞工他的平均壽命是13.7年\n\n25\n00:08:51,019 --> 00:09:18,481\n那他的健康餘命是12.4年可是相較於相較於沒有癌症的這個病人他們損失了15.1的平均這個健康餘命還有16.4年的這個不健康餘命的這個影響就是說他受到影響其實對這個家庭對社會對工作來講都是非常非常多的這個造成的後果所以我剛所提到就是為什麼他們有時候對篩檢是有疑慮\n\n26\n00:09:20,322 --> 00:09:41,407\n因為他們擔心一旦確診以後後續的治療對於他的工作的影響那如果他後來是把癌症治好了他回到職場所受的影響等等會讓他們造成一些擔心這部分可能也要麻煩部裡面看有沒有更好的政策來加強在這個\n\n27\n00:09:43,027 --> 00:10:00,076\n健康服務的同時能夠也讓這些勞工們知道他們在這部分如何透過我們的僱主能夠來強化有關於這個健康服務的模式我們也知道現在賴總統在打造這個健康台灣\n\n28\n00:10:00,956 --> 00:10:26,426\n但是這個健康台灣其實就是很希望所有的國民都能夠得到很好的健康的服務的模式那我們剛才提到根據113年那一份的報告裡面我們期待健康服務的內涵應該不只是安全或者是合法而已我們希望把這個健康服務的概念能夠真的帶入到在這個健康台灣政策之下的一些\n\n29\n00:10:27,466 --> 00:10:43,833\n希望能夠有在政策上可以具體來呈現的所以最後我們是希望說能夠在這個整體的政策上也透過勞動部這邊的努力將健康台灣的政策目標納入到企業永續的指標裡面\n\n30\n00:10:45,194 --> 00:11:11,442\n那第二個部分就是要強化鼓勵企業來提供離愛員工的協助協助方案剛剛有提到一些將來所造成的困境還有強化這個提供癌症康復員工續聘跟工作調整還有透過勞工健康服務機制來鼓勵勞工癌篩的這些希望能夠納為這個政策性的內涵而不是說我們在做這個健康服務的過程裡面只是合法\n\n31\n00:11:12,242 --> 00:11:31,888\n有在做這個運作而言那這部分可不可以請勞動部也能夠在一個月裡面能夠具體的提出這個推動的這個書面報告給我們參考好沒問題那就麻煩這個部長還有同仁加油謝謝謝謝好謝謝王委員謝謝部長現在休息十分鐘\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5666\t11256\t好 謝謝主席我們有請洪部長還有請質安署林署長\n20487\t42076\t我想今天真的是很沉痛的一個主題即使明天是五一勞動節我們除了祝福所有勞工朋友跟他的家人都能夠平安幸福以外今天這個主題真的是很令人沉痛尤其是在高空墜落的事故的部分那個都是一個喪可是從數據來看\n45578\t65088\t我們每一年就有那麼多的家庭變成一個永恆的沉痛永恆的心痛所以真的我想今天的委員們都非常非常的期待未來如何能夠減少這樣的事故的發生所以今天就根據三個主題來跟部長還有署長來討論一下\n68830\t87065\t其實職災一直都是大家非常關心的議題所以在這個過程裡面預防還有責任的釐清是很重要的那我們也知道說在過去這麼多年來所發生的這個職災的這個死亡人數其實是讓我們很心驚膽跳\n88266\t114612\t那很多都屬於複合式的災害除了這個高峰墜落過程裡面其實很多都是複合式的災害那近期也做了很多檢討包括今天的檢討裡面也認為包括可能原因有工程設計為考量施工安全風險之下所造成的問題那工程安慰資源投入不足還有工程平行分包缺乏統合管理機制等等這個所造成的一些問題\n115712\t138760\t那包括在前一段時間全年的台中大肚倉儲的火災案這個就是很典型的一個屬於複合性的災害的問題那最後的結果反而是被起訴的對象不包括全年或者是負責工程的廠商反而是派駐在現場的空調配管工程人員跟員工被起訴受到影響\n139600\t162153\t所以前署長才會感嘆說未來就是誰創造風險誰就要負責管理請問一下部長未來勞動部要如何讓企業主還有營造廠都能夠被克制並確實負擔起管理跟預防職災的責任雖然已經有過那麼多的委員\n163214\t179153\t跟你要求要做這方面的處理那可不可以請部長在針對這樣的狀況再進一步說明跟王老師說明我們確實這段時間其實也檢討確實很多我們看到的重大的\n180934\t201963\t這個職安或公安的事件裡面很難去苛責業主的責任所以這一次其實也是在我們的法規的修訂裡面把業主的責任其實給放進去一個是業主的責任那業主尤其他該擔負起包括其實在一開始的時候就要做相關的風險評估按照風險評估來做施工的執行\n203063\t229742\t第二個是其實我們也看到很多這個整個大家其實都提到乘風轉包的問題乘風轉包他的風險跟他的責任就可能會被一直的轉嫁或者是切割最後反而會發生很難救責的狀況或者是這整個工地的這個責任是一個散亂的這個狀況所以我們這次修法裡面也放入要求這個法規裡面直接要要求我們其中一個這個承包商要做\n230402\t248320\t統合性這個相關的統合的這個責任必須要指定一個廠商來做這件事情的部分那這也是在回應我們目前在工地的現場看到的這些這些工地的文化或者是他們的這個樣態其實給予相關的制度修訂的回應對是\n248960\t265262\t所以未來有沒有機會針對某一些特定的剛有提到一些民間工程或者是屬於政府部門的工程在風險上如果有機會先了解它的這個風險是非常高的話那有沒有機會先去做臨場的管理\n266763\t285697\t這部分不知道這個其實就是我們在講的源頭的管理的部分業主在一開始源頭的時候他就要在做這個風險相關的掌握甚至相關的風險的評估設計跟管理這其實就是我們在說的在源頭管理他就必須要科與他做這個責任如果沒有做那就要開罰\n287096\t312564\t因為我們了解現在的建築物越來越在設計上的風格為了要凸顯它的特色所以我們從它的設計圖就可以理解它的風險尤其是在高空最多的風險可能是非常非常高的這部分我的意思就是說有沒有機會當它開始有這個設計圖出現的時候其實相關單位就能夠掌握到未來這個風險極高之下是不是應該要極淺\n313684\t340986\t這是我們剛才說的他其實在規劃設計的階段他就要在一開始的時候就把風險的評估跟風險管理的方式他就要把它給做出來他有責任必須做出來也不能再迴避這件事情OK好那就麻煩這部分要再加強OK謝謝那第二部分就要跟部長來討論一下這個強化勞工健康服務的部分因為我來自醫界所以一直對於這個勞工的這個健康服務其實\n341767\t356384\t一直都有很深的感受那在去年6月我們有看到這個職業安全衛生研究所也出了一份報告不知道部長有沒有機會去了解這份報告這份報告主要是針對於從\n358606\t383122\t2011年開始針對300人的員工以上的這個部分做實施臨場健康服務以來把這個十幾年來的這些經驗匯整以後針對於在這個過程裡面勞工健康服務的效益做一個評估那這個評估裡面也特別在訪談了145家比較具有特別危害健康作業職場的這些勞工的這個服務的人員\n388145\t405397\t指安慰的這些同仁做了相關的這個了解跟調查那其中他有整理出了九點的政策建議那包括有五大點就是第一個是要調整定這個成效的指標第二個就是要修正勞工健康保護的規則\n406678\t427894\t第三個是記錄表單讓他更彈性簡易第四個就是要依照行行業的這個特性來提供健康指引那第五點就是提供充分的訓練資源來強化溝通跟推廣訓練等等那這部分很具體的是針對於未來比較大型的這個具有多的勞工同仁的\n428394\t441896\t健康服務的過程裡面希望有更好的一個政策上的推行那這部分不知道部長有沒有其他的建議或者是有沒有可能在一個月裡面給我們一份這個政策建議可行性的報告平息\n443226\t468963\t包圍沒問題這部分我們已經努力在做這個部分就麻煩對真的健康服務的部分可以再加強好那第三個部分就是要跟部長討論一下鼓勵企業來提供勞工癌篩還有這個癌後的後續協助因為我們知道其實很多勞工朋友他們有一個癌症是跟他們的職業\n470124\t491170\t跟他們的生活習慣是有非常大的關係就是口腔癌那針對於我們這個剛剛所提到那份報告裡面就是健康服務裡面是不是能夠更加強尤其是像跟這個勞工朋友比較有相關的這個口腔癌的服務因為我們知道其實很多的勞工朋友他們不是不願意去篩檢\n492310\t506778\t他們很擔心篩檢以後萬一被診斷癌症造成了困擾干擾還有他們未來的這個就業等等會不會受到很多影響因為我們知道其實口腔癌的病人他\n507498\t529077\t目前的治療之下它其實可以提供有好的一個癒後將近有五成到六成的這些勞工朋友其實他的口腔癌經過處理就可以改善了可是當然也有一些是比較晚期的病人平均之下預期有一個診斷口腔癌的勞工他的平均壽命是13.7年\n531019\t558481\t那他的健康餘命是12.4年可是相較於相較於沒有癌症的這個病人他們損失了15.1的平均這個健康餘命還有16.4年的這個不健康餘命的這個影響就是說他受到影響其實對這個家庭對社會對工作來講都是非常非常多的這個造成的後果所以我剛所提到就是為什麼他們有時候對篩檢是有疑慮\n560322\t581407\t因為他們擔心一旦確診以後後續的治療對於他的工作的影響那如果他後來是把癌症治好了他回到職場所受的影響等等會讓他們造成一些擔心這部分可能也要麻煩部裡面看有沒有更好的政策來加強在這個\n583027\t600076\t健康服務的同時能夠也讓這些勞工們知道他們在這部分如何透過我們的僱主能夠來強化有關於這個健康服務的模式我們也知道現在賴總統在打造這個健康台灣\n600956\t626426\t但是這個健康台灣其實就是很希望所有的國民都能夠得到很好的健康的服務的模式那我們剛才提到根據113年那一份的報告裡面我們期待健康服務的內涵應該不只是安全或者是合法而已我們希望把這個健康服務的概念能夠真的帶入到在這個健康台灣政策之下的一些\n627466\t643833\t希望能夠有在政策上可以具體來呈現的所以最後我們是希望說能夠在這個整體的政策上也透過勞動部這邊的努力將健康台灣的政策目標納入到企業永續的指標裡面\n645194\t671442\t那第二個部分就是要強化鼓勵企業來提供離愛員工的協助協助方案剛剛有提到一些將來所造成的困境還有強化這個提供癌症康復員工續聘跟工作調整還有透過勞工健康服務機制來鼓勵勞工癌篩的這些希望能夠納為這個政策性的內涵而不是說我們在做這個健康服務的過程裡面只是合法\n672242\t691888\t有在做這個運作而言那這部分可不可以請勞動部也能夠在一個月裡面能夠具體的提出這個推動的這個書面報告給我們參考好沒問題那就麻煩這個部長還有同仁加油謝謝謝謝好謝謝王委員謝謝部長現在休息十分鐘\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席我們有請洪部長還有請質安署林署長\n我想今天真的是很沉痛的一個主題即使明天是五一勞動節我們除了祝福所有勞工朋友跟他的家人都能夠平安幸福以外今天這個主題真的是很令人沉痛尤其是在高空墜落的事故的部分那個都是一個喪可是從數據來看\n我們每一年就有那麼多的家庭變成一個永恆的沉痛永恆的心痛所以真的我想今天的委員們都非常非常的期待未來如何能夠減少這樣的事故的發生所以今天就根據三個主題來跟部長還有署長來討論一下\n其實職災一直都是大家非常關心的議題所以在這個過程裡面預防還有責任的釐清是很重要的那我們也知道說在過去這麼多年來所發生的這個職災的這個死亡人數其實是讓我們很心驚膽跳\n那很多都屬於複合式的災害除了這個高峰墜落過程裡面其實很多都是複合式的災害那近期也做了很多檢討包括今天的檢討裡面也認為包括可能原因有工程設計為考量施工安全風險之下所造成的問題那工程安慰資源投入不足還有工程平行分包缺乏統合管理機制等等這個所造成的一些問題\n那包括在前一段時間全年的台中大肚倉儲的火災案這個就是很典型的一個屬於複合性的災害的問題那最後的結果反而是被起訴的對象不包括全年或者是負責工程的廠商反而是派駐在現場的空調配管工程人員跟員工被起訴受到影響\n所以前署長才會感嘆說未來就是誰創造風險誰就要負責管理請問一下部長未來勞動部要如何讓企業主還有營造廠都能夠被克制並確實負擔起管理跟預防職災的責任雖然已經有過那麼多的委員\n跟你要求要做這方面的處理那可不可以請部長在針對這樣的狀況再進一步說明跟王老師說明我們確實這段時間其實也檢討確實很多我們看到的重大的\n這個職安或公安的事件裡面很難去苛責業主的責任所以這一次其實也是在我們的法規的修訂裡面把業主的責任其實給放進去一個是業主的責任那業主尤其他該擔負起包括其實在一開始的時候就要做相關的風險評估按照風險評估來做施工的執行\n第二個是其實我們也看到很多這個整個大家其實都提到乘風轉包的問題乘風轉包他的風險跟他的責任就可能會被一直的轉嫁或者是切割最後反而會發生很難救責的狀況或者是這整個工地的這個責任是一個散亂的這個狀況所以我們這次修法裡面也放入要求這個法規裡面直接要要求我們其中一個這個承包商要做\n統合性這個相關的統合的這個責任必須要指定一個廠商來做這件事情的部分那這也是在回應我們目前在工地的現場看到的這些這些工地的文化或者是他們的這個樣態其實給予相關的制度修訂的回應對是\n所以未來有沒有機會針對某一些特定的剛有提到一些民間工程或者是屬於政府部門的工程在風險上如果有機會先了解它的這個風險是非常高的話那有沒有機會先去做臨場的管理\n這部分不知道這個其實就是我們在講的源頭的管理的部分業主在一開始源頭的時候他就要在做這個風險相關的掌握甚至相關的風險的評估設計跟管理這其實就是我們在說的在源頭管理他就必須要科與他做這個責任如果沒有做那就要開罰\n因為我們了解現在的建築物越來越在設計上的風格為了要凸顯它的特色所以我們從它的設計圖就可以理解它的風險尤其是在高空最多的風險可能是非常非常高的這部分我的意思就是說有沒有機會當它開始有這個設計圖出現的時候其實相關單位就能夠掌握到未來這個風險極高之下是不是應該要極淺\n這是我們剛才說的他其實在規劃設計的階段他就要在一開始的時候就把風險的評估跟風險管理的方式他就要把它給做出來他有責任必須做出來也不能再迴避這件事情OK好那就麻煩這部分要再加強OK謝謝那第二部分就要跟部長來討論一下這個強化勞工健康服務的部分因為我來自醫界所以一直對於這個勞工的這個健康服務其實\n一直都有很深的感受那在去年6月我們有看到這個職業安全衛生研究所也出了一份報告不知道部長有沒有機會去了解這份報告這份報告主要是針對於從\n2011年開始針對300人的員工以上的這個部分做實施臨場健康服務以來把這個十幾年來的這些經驗匯整以後針對於在這個過程裡面勞工健康服務的效益做一個評估那這個評估裡面也特別在訪談了145家比較具有特別危害健康作業職場的這些勞工的這個服務的人員\n指安慰的這些同仁做了相關的這個了解跟調查那其中他有整理出了九點的政策建議那包括有五大點就是第一個是要調整定這個成效的指標第二個就是要修正勞工健康保護的規則\n第三個是記錄表單讓他更彈性簡易第四個就是要依照行行業的這個特性來提供健康指引那第五點就是提供充分的訓練資源來強化溝通跟推廣訓練等等那這部分很具體的是針對於未來比較大型的這個具有多的勞工同仁的\n健康服務的過程裡面希望有更好的一個政策上的推行那這部分不知道部長有沒有其他的建議或者是有沒有可能在一個月裡面給我們一份這個政策建議可行性的報告平息\n包圍沒問題這部分我們已經努力在做這個部分就麻煩對真的健康服務的部分可以再加強好那第三個部分就是要跟部長討論一下鼓勵企業來提供勞工癌篩還有這個癌後的後續協助因為我們知道其實很多勞工朋友他們有一個癌症是跟他們的職業\n跟他們的生活習慣是有非常大的關係就是口腔癌那針對於我們這個剛剛所提到那份報告裡面就是健康服務裡面是不是能夠更加強尤其是像跟這個勞工朋友比較有相關的這個口腔癌的服務因為我們知道其實很多的勞工朋友他們不是不願意去篩檢\n他們很擔心篩檢以後萬一被診斷癌症造成了困擾干擾還有他們未來的這個就業等等會不會受到很多影響因為我們知道其實口腔癌的病人他\n目前的治療之下它其實可以提供有好的一個癒後將近有五成到六成的這些勞工朋友其實他的口腔癌經過處理就可以改善了可是當然也有一些是比較晚期的病人平均之下預期有一個診斷口腔癌的勞工他的平均壽命是13.7年\n那他的健康餘命是12.4年可是相較於相較於沒有癌症的這個病人他們損失了15.1的平均這個健康餘命還有16.4年的這個不健康餘命的這個影響就是說他受到影響其實對這個家庭對社會對工作來講都是非常非常多的這個造成的後果所以我剛所提到就是為什麼他們有時候對篩檢是有疑慮\n因為他們擔心一旦確診以後後續的治療對於他的工作的影響那如果他後來是把癌症治好了他回到職場所受的影響等等會讓他們造成一些擔心這部分可能也要麻煩部裡面看有沒有更好的政策來加強在這個\n健康服務的同時能夠也讓這些勞工們知道他們在這部分如何透過我們的僱主能夠來強化有關於這個健康服務的模式我們也知道現在賴總統在打造這個健康台灣\n但是這個健康台灣其實就是很希望所有的國民都能夠得到很好的健康的服務的模式那我們剛才提到根據113年那一份的報告裡面我們期待健康服務的內涵應該不只是安全或者是合法而已我們希望把這個健康服務的概念能夠真的帶入到在這個健康台灣政策之下的一些\n希望能夠有在政策上可以具體來呈現的所以最後我們是希望說能夠在這個整體的政策上也透過勞動部這邊的努力將健康台灣的政策目標納入到企業永續的指標裡面\n那第二個部分就是要強化鼓勵企業來提供離愛員工的協助協助方案剛剛有提到一些將來所造成的困境還有強化這個提供癌症康復員工續聘跟工作調整還有透過勞工健康服務機制來鼓勵勞工癌篩的這些希望能夠納為這個政策性的內涵而不是說我們在做這個健康服務的過程裡面只是合法\n有在做這個運作而言那這部分可不可以請勞動部也能夠在一個月裡面能夠具體的提出這個推動的這個書面報告給我們參考好沒問題那就麻煩這個部長還有同仁加油謝謝謝謝好謝謝王委員謝謝部長現在休息十分鐘\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.666 --> 00:11.256\n好謝謝主席我們有請洪部長還有請質安署林署長\n\n00:20.487 --> 00:42.076\n我想今天真的是很沉痛的一個主題即使明天是五一勞動節我們除了祝福所有勞工朋友跟他的家人都能夠平安幸福以外今天這個主題真的是很令人沉痛尤其是在高空墜落的事故的部分那個都是一個喪可是從數據來看\n\n00:45.578 --> 01:05.088\n我們每一年就有那麼多的家庭變成一個永恆的沉痛永恆的心痛所以真的我想今天的委員們都非常非常的期待未來如何能夠減少這樣的事故的發生所以今天就根據三個主題來跟部長還有署長來討論一下\n\n01:08.830 --> 01:27.065\n其實職災一直都是大家非常關心的議題所以在這個過程裡面預防還有責任的釐清是很重要的那我們也知道說在過去這麼多年來所發生的這個職災的這個死亡人數其實是讓我們很心驚膽跳\n\n01:28.266 --> 01:54.612\n那很多都屬於複合式的災害除了這個高峰墜落過程裡面其實很多都是複合式的災害那近期也做了很多檢討包括今天的檢討裡面也認為包括可能原因有工程設計為考量施工安全風險之下所造成的問題那工程安慰資源投入不足還有工程平行分包缺乏統合管理機制等等這個所造成的一些問題\n\n01:55.712 --> 02:18.760\n那包括在前一段時間全年的台中大肚倉儲的火災案這個就是很典型的一個屬於複合性的災害的問題那最後的結果反而是被起訴的對象不包括全年或者是負責工程的廠商反而是派駐在現場的空調配管工程人員跟員工被起訴受到影響\n\n02:19.600 --> 02:42.153\n所以前署長才會感嘆說未來就是誰創造風險誰就要負責管理請問一下部長未來勞動部要如何讓企業主還有營造廠都能夠被克制並確實負擔起管理跟預防職災的責任雖然已經有過那麼多的委員\n\n02:43.214 --> 02:59.153\n跟你要求要做這方面的處理那可不可以請部長在針對這樣的狀況再進一步說明跟王老師說明我們確實這段時間其實也檢討確實很多我們看到的重大的\n\n03:00.934 --> 03:21.963\n這個職安或公安的事件裡面很難去苛責業主的責任所以這一次其實也是在我們的法規的修訂裡面把業主的責任其實給放進去一個是業主的責任那業主尤其他該擔負起包括其實在一開始的時候就要做相關的風險評估按照風險評估來做施工的執行\n\n03:23.063 --> 03:49.742\n第二個是其實我們也看到很多這個整個大家其實都提到乘風轉包的問題乘風轉包他的風險跟他的責任就可能會被一直的轉嫁或者是切割最後反而會發生很難救責的狀況或者是這整個工地的這個責任是一個散亂的這個狀況所以我們這次修法裡面也放入要求這個法規裡面直接要要求我們其中一個這個承包商要做\n\n03:50.402 --> 04:08.320\n統合性這個相關的統合的這個責任必須要指定一個廠商來做這件事情的部分那這也是在回應我們目前在工地的現場看到的這些這些工地的文化或者是他們的這個樣態其實給予相關的制度修訂的回應對是\n\n04:08.960 --> 04:25.262\n所以未來有沒有機會針對某一些特定的剛有提到一些民間工程或者是屬於政府部門的工程在風險上如果有機會先了解它的這個風險是非常高的話那有沒有機會先去做臨場的管理\n\n04:26.763 --> 04:45.697\n這部分不知道這個其實就是我們在講的源頭的管理的部分業主在一開始源頭的時候他就要在做這個風險相關的掌握甚至相關的風險的評估設計跟管理這其實就是我們在說的在源頭管理他就必須要科與他做這個責任如果沒有做那就要開罰\n\n04:47.096 --> 05:12.564\n因為我們了解現在的建築物越來越在設計上的風格為了要凸顯它的特色所以我們從它的設計圖就可以理解它的風險尤其是在高空最多的風險可能是非常非常高的這部分我的意思就是說有沒有機會當它開始有這個設計圖出現的時候其實相關單位就能夠掌握到未來這個風險極高之下是不是應該要極淺\n\n05:13.684 --> 05:40.986\n這是我們剛才說的他其實在規劃設計的階段他就要在一開始的時候就把風險的評估跟風險管理的方式他就要把它給做出來他有責任必須做出來也不能再迴避這件事情OK好那就麻煩這部分要再加強OK謝謝那第二部分就要跟部長來討論一下這個強化勞工健康服務的部分因為我來自醫界所以一直對於這個勞工的這個健康服務其實\n\n05:41.767 --> 05:56.384\n一直都有很深的感受那在去年6月我們有看到這個職業安全衛生研究所也出了一份報告不知道部長有沒有機會去了解這份報告這份報告主要是針對於從\n\n05:58.606 --> 06:23.122\n2011年開始針對300人的員工以上的這個部分做實施臨場健康服務以來把這個十幾年來的這些經驗匯整以後針對於在這個過程裡面勞工健康服務的效益做一個評估那這個評估裡面也特別在訪談了145家比較具有特別危害健康作業職場的這些勞工的這個服務的人員\n\n06:28.145 --> 06:45.397\n指安慰的這些同仁做了相關的這個了解跟調查那其中他有整理出了九點的政策建議那包括有五大點就是第一個是要調整定這個成效的指標第二個就是要修正勞工健康保護的規則\n\n06:46.678 --> 07:07.894\n第三個是記錄表單讓他更彈性簡易第四個就是要依照行行業的這個特性來提供健康指引那第五點就是提供充分的訓練資源來強化溝通跟推廣訓練等等那這部分很具體的是針對於未來比較大型的這個具有多的勞工同仁的\n\n07:08.394 --> 07:21.896\n健康服務的過程裡面希望有更好的一個政策上的推行那這部分不知道部長有沒有其他的建議或者是有沒有可能在一個月裡面給我們一份這個政策建議可行性的報告平息\n\n07:23.226 --> 07:48.963\n包圍沒問題這部分我們已經努力在做這個部分就麻煩對真的健康服務的部分可以再加強好那第三個部分就是要跟部長討論一下鼓勵企業來提供勞工癌篩還有這個癌後的後續協助因為我們知道其實很多勞工朋友他們有一個癌症是跟他們的職業\n\n07:50.124 --> 08:11.170\n跟他們的生活習慣是有非常大的關係就是口腔癌那針對於我們這個剛剛所提到那份報告裡面就是健康服務裡面是不是能夠更加強尤其是像跟這個勞工朋友比較有相關的這個口腔癌的服務因為我們知道其實很多的勞工朋友他們不是不願意去篩檢\n\n08:12.310 --> 08:26.778\n他們很擔心篩檢以後萬一被診斷癌症造成了困擾干擾還有他們未來的這個就業等等會不會受到很多影響因為我們知道其實口腔癌的病人他\n\n08:27.498 --> 08:49.077\n目前的治療之下它其實可以提供有好的一個癒後將近有五成到六成的這些勞工朋友其實他的口腔癌經過處理就可以改善了可是當然也有一些是比較晚期的病人平均之下預期有一個診斷口腔癌的勞工他的平均壽命是13.7年\n\n08:51.019 --> 09:18.481\n那他的健康餘命是12.4年可是相較於相較於沒有癌症的這個病人他們損失了15.1的平均這個健康餘命還有16.4年的這個不健康餘命的這個影響就是說他受到影響其實對這個家庭對社會對工作來講都是非常非常多的這個造成的後果所以我剛所提到就是為什麼他們有時候對篩檢是有疑慮\n\n09:20.322 --> 09:41.407\n因為他們擔心一旦確診以後後續的治療對於他的工作的影響那如果他後來是把癌症治好了他回到職場所受的影響等等會讓他們造成一些擔心這部分可能也要麻煩部裡面看有沒有更好的政策來加強在這個\n\n09:43.027 --> 10:00.076\n健康服務的同時能夠也讓這些勞工們知道他們在這部分如何透過我們的僱主能夠來強化有關於這個健康服務的模式我們也知道現在賴總統在打造這個健康台灣\n\n10:00.956 --> 10:26.426\n但是這個健康台灣其實就是很希望所有的國民都能夠得到很好的健康的服務的模式那我們剛才提到根據113年那一份的報告裡面我們期待健康服務的內涵應該不只是安全或者是合法而已我們希望把這個健康服務的概念能夠真的帶入到在這個健康台灣政策之下的一些\n\n10:27.466 --> 10:43.833\n希望能夠有在政策上可以具體來呈現的所以最後我們是希望說能夠在這個整體的政策上也透過勞動部這邊的努力將健康台灣的政策目標納入到企業永續的指標裡面\n\n10:45.194 --> 11:11.442\n那第二個部分就是要強化鼓勵企業來提供離愛員工的協助協助方案剛剛有提到一些將來所造成的困境還有強化這個提供癌症康復員工續聘跟工作調整還有透過勞工健康服務機制來鼓勵勞工癌篩的這些希望能夠納為這個政策性的內涵而不是說我們在做這個健康服務的過程裡面只是合法\n\n11:12.242 --> 11:31.888\n有在做這個運作而言那這部分可不可以請勞動部也能夠在一個月裡面能夠具體的提出這個推動的這個書面報告給我們參考好沒問題那就麻煩這個部長還有同仁加油謝謝謝謝好謝謝王委員謝謝部長現在休息十分鐘\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.666,"end":11.256,"text":"好 謝謝主席我們有請洪部長還有請質安署林署長"},{"start":20.487,"end":42.076,"text":"我想今天真的是很沉痛的一個主題即使明天是五一勞動節我們除了祝福所有勞工朋友跟他的家人都能夠平安幸福以外今天這個主題真的是很令人沉痛尤其是在高空墜落的事故的部分那個都是一個喪可是從數據來看"},{"start":45.578,"end":65.088,"text":"我們每一年就有那麼多的家庭變成一個永恆的沉痛永恆的心痛所以真的我想今天的委員們都非常非常的期待未來如何能夠減少這樣的事故的發生所以今天就根據三個主題來跟部長還有署長來討論一下"},{"start":68.83,"end":87.065,"text":"其實職災一直都是大家非常關心的議題所以在這個過程裡面預防還有責任的釐清是很重要的那我們也知道說在過去這麼多年來所發生的這個職災的這個死亡人數其實是讓我們很心驚膽跳"},{"start":88.266,"end":114.612,"text":"那很多都屬於複合式的災害除了這個高峰墜落過程裡面其實很多都是複合式的災害那近期也做了很多檢討包括今天的檢討裡面也認為包括可能原因有工程設計為考量施工安全風險之下所造成的問題那工程安慰資源投入不足還有工程平行分包缺乏統合管理機制等等這個所造成的一些問題"},{"start":115.712,"end":138.76,"text":"那包括在前一段時間全年的台中大肚倉儲的火災案這個就是很典型的一個屬於複合性的災害的問題那最後的結果反而是被起訴的對象不包括全年或者是負責工程的廠商反而是派駐在現場的空調配管工程人員跟員工被起訴受到影響"},{"start":139.6,"end":162.153,"text":"所以前署長才會感嘆說未來就是誰創造風險誰就要負責管理請問一下部長未來勞動部要如何讓企業主還有營造廠都能夠被克制並確實負擔起管理跟預防職災的責任雖然已經有過那麼多的委員"},{"start":163.214,"end":179.153,"text":"跟你要求要做這方面的處理那可不可以請部長在針對這樣的狀況再進一步說明跟王老師說明我們確實這段時間其實也檢討確實很多我們看到的重大的"},{"start":180.934,"end":201.963,"text":"這個職安或公安的事件裡面很難去苛責業主的責任所以這一次其實也是在我們的法規的修訂裡面把業主的責任其實給放進去一個是業主的責任那業主尤其他該擔負起包括其實在一開始的時候就要做相關的風險評估按照風險評估來做施工的執行"},{"start":203.063,"end":229.742,"text":"第二個是其實我們也看到很多這個整個大家其實都提到乘風轉包的問題乘風轉包他的風險跟他的責任就可能會被一直的轉嫁或者是切割最後反而會發生很難救責的狀況或者是這整個工地的這個責任是一個散亂的這個狀況所以我們這次修法裡面也放入要求這個法規裡面直接要要求我們其中一個這個承包商要做"},{"start":230.402,"end":248.32,"text":"統合性這個相關的統合的這個責任必須要指定一個廠商來做這件事情的部分那這也是在回應我們目前在工地的現場看到的這些這些工地的文化或者是他們的這個樣態其實給予相關的制度修訂的回應對是"},{"start":248.96,"end":265.262,"text":"所以未來有沒有機會針對某一些特定的剛有提到一些民間工程或者是屬於政府部門的工程在風險上如果有機會先了解它的這個風險是非常高的話那有沒有機會先去做臨場的管理"},{"start":266.763,"end":285.697,"text":"這部分不知道這個其實就是我們在講的源頭的管理的部分業主在一開始源頭的時候他就要在做這個風險相關的掌握甚至相關的風險的評估設計跟管理這其實就是我們在說的在源頭管理他就必須要科與他做這個責任如果沒有做那就要開罰"},{"start":287.096,"end":312.564,"text":"因為我們了解現在的建築物越來越在設計上的風格為了要凸顯它的特色所以我們從它的設計圖就可以理解它的風險尤其是在高空最多的風險可能是非常非常高的這部分我的意思就是說有沒有機會當它開始有這個設計圖出現的時候其實相關單位就能夠掌握到未來這個風險極高之下是不是應該要極淺"},{"start":313.684,"end":340.986,"text":"這是我們剛才說的他其實在規劃設計的階段他就要在一開始的時候就把風險的評估跟風險管理的方式他就要把它給做出來他有責任必須做出來也不能再迴避這件事情OK好那就麻煩這部分要再加強OK謝謝那第二部分就要跟部長來討論一下這個強化勞工健康服務的部分因為我來自醫界所以一直對於這個勞工的這個健康服務其實"},{"start":341.767,"end":356.384,"text":"一直都有很深的感受那在去年6月我們有看到這個職業安全衛生研究所也出了一份報告不知道部長有沒有機會去了解這份報告這份報告主要是針對於從"},{"start":358.606,"end":383.122,"text":"2011年開始針對300人的員工以上的這個部分做實施臨場健康服務以來把這個十幾年來的這些經驗匯整以後針對於在這個過程裡面勞工健康服務的效益做一個評估那這個評估裡面也特別在訪談了145家比較具有特別危害健康作業職場的這些勞工的這個服務的人員"},{"start":388.145,"end":405.397,"text":"指安慰的這些同仁做了相關的這個了解跟調查那其中他有整理出了九點的政策建議那包括有五大點就是第一個是要調整定這個成效的指標第二個就是要修正勞工健康保護的規則"},{"start":406.678,"end":427.894,"text":"第三個是記錄表單讓他更彈性簡易第四個就是要依照行行業的這個特性來提供健康指引那第五點就是提供充分的訓練資源來強化溝通跟推廣訓練等等那這部分很具體的是針對於未來比較大型的這個具有多的勞工同仁的"},{"start":428.394,"end":441.896,"text":"健康服務的過程裡面希望有更好的一個政策上的推行那這部分不知道部長有沒有其他的建議或者是有沒有可能在一個月裡面給我們一份這個政策建議可行性的報告平息"},{"start":443.226,"end":468.963,"text":"包圍沒問題這部分我們已經努力在做這個部分就麻煩對真的健康服務的部分可以再加強好那第三個部分就是要跟部長討論一下鼓勵企業來提供勞工癌篩還有這個癌後的後續協助因為我們知道其實很多勞工朋友他們有一個癌症是跟他們的職業"},{"start":470.124,"end":491.17,"text":"跟他們的生活習慣是有非常大的關係就是口腔癌那針對於我們這個剛剛所提到那份報告裡面就是健康服務裡面是不是能夠更加強尤其是像跟這個勞工朋友比較有相關的這個口腔癌的服務因為我們知道其實很多的勞工朋友他們不是不願意去篩檢"},{"start":492.31,"end":506.778,"text":"他們很擔心篩檢以後萬一被診斷癌症造成了困擾干擾還有他們未來的這個就業等等會不會受到很多影響因為我們知道其實口腔癌的病人他"},{"start":507.498,"end":529.077,"text":"目前的治療之下它其實可以提供有好的一個癒後將近有五成到六成的這些勞工朋友其實他的口腔癌經過處理就可以改善了可是當然也有一些是比較晚期的病人平均之下預期有一個診斷口腔癌的勞工他的平均壽命是13.7年"},{"start":531.019,"end":558.481,"text":"那他的健康餘命是12.4年可是相較於相較於沒有癌症的這個病人他們損失了15.1的平均這個健康餘命還有16.4年的這個不健康餘命的這個影響就是說他受到影響其實對這個家庭對社會對工作來講都是非常非常多的這個造成的後果所以我剛所提到就是為什麼他們有時候對篩檢是有疑慮"},{"start":560.322,"end":581.407,"text":"因為他們擔心一旦確診以後後續的治療對於他的工作的影響那如果他後來是把癌症治好了他回到職場所受的影響等等會讓他們造成一些擔心這部分可能也要麻煩部裡面看有沒有更好的政策來加強在這個"},{"start":583.027,"end":600.076,"text":"健康服務的同時能夠也讓這些勞工們知道他們在這部分如何透過我們的僱主能夠來強化有關於這個健康服務的模式我們也知道現在賴總統在打造這個健康台灣"},{"start":600.956,"end":626.426,"text":"但是這個健康台灣其實就是很希望所有的國民都能夠得到很好的健康的服務的模式那我們剛才提到根據113年那一份的報告裡面我們期待健康服務的內涵應該不只是安全或者是合法而已我們希望把這個健康服務的概念能夠真的帶入到在這個健康台灣政策之下的一些"},{"start":627.466,"end":643.833,"text":"希望能夠有在政策上可以具體來呈現的所以最後我們是希望說能夠在這個整體的政策上也透過勞動部這邊的努力將健康台灣的政策目標納入到企業永續的指標裡面"},{"start":645.194,"end":671.442,"text":"那第二個部分就是要強化鼓勵企業來提供離愛員工的協助協助方案剛剛有提到一些將來所造成的困境還有強化這個提供癌症康復員工續聘跟工作調整還有透過勞工健康服務機制來鼓勵勞工癌篩的這些希望能夠納為這個政策性的內涵而不是說我們在做這個健康服務的過程裡面只是合法"},{"start":672.242,"end":691.888,"text":"有在做這個運作而言那這部分可不可以請勞動部也能夠在一個月裡面能夠具體的提出這個推動的這個書面報告給我們參考好沒問題那就麻煩這個部長還有同仁加油謝謝謝謝好謝謝王委員謝謝部長現在休息十分鐘"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":582,"blocks":[["王委員正旭：（11時）謝謝主席，有請洪部長及職安署林署長。"],["主席：請部長及署長。"],["洪部長申翰：王委員好。"],["王委員正旭：部長好，署長好。今天的主題真的是很沉痛的一個主題，明天是五一勞動節，我們除了祝福所有勞工朋友跟他的家人都能夠平安幸福以外，今天討論這個主題真的令人感到很沉痛，尤其是在高空墜落事故的部分，這都是一個剎那，可是從數據來看，每一年就有那麼多的家庭變成一個永恆的沉痛、永恆的心痛。我想今天委員們都非常期待未來如何能夠減少這樣的事故發生，所以今天就根據三個主題來跟部長及署長討論一下。","其實職災一直都是大家非常關心的議題，在這個過程裡面，預防以及責任釐清是很重要的，我們也知道過去這麼多年來所發生的職災死亡人數，其實是讓我們很心驚膽跳，除了高空墜落之外，其實很多都是複合式的災害。近期也做了很多檢討，在今天的檢討當中也認為可能原因包括工程設計未考量施工安全風險、工程安衛資源投入不足、工程平行分包缺乏統合管理機制等等所造成的一些問題。包括前一段時間全聯臺中大肚倉儲火災案，這就是很典型屬於複合性災害的問題，結果最後被起訴的對象不包括全聯或者是負責工程的廠商，反而是派駐在現場的空調配管工程人員及員工被起訴，所以前署長才會感嘆未來就是誰創造風險，誰就要負責管理。請問一下部長，未來勞動部要如何讓企業主及營造廠都能夠被課責，並確實負擔起管理與預防職災的責任？雖然已經有那麼多委員要求你要做這方面的處理，可不可以請部長針對這樣的狀況再進一步說明？"],["洪部長申翰：跟王委員說明，這段時間其實我們也在檢討，確實在很多我們所看到的重大職安或工安事件裡面，很難去課以業主的責任，所以這一次在法規的修訂裡面把業主的責任放進去。針對業主擔負的責任，包括在一開始的時候，他就要做相關的風險評估，按照風險評估來施工。第二個，大家其實都有提到層層轉包的問題，層層轉包的風險和責任可能會被一直轉嫁或是切割，最後反而會發生很難究責的狀況，或者是整個工地的責任是一個散亂的狀況，所以我們這次修法也在法規裡面直接要求其中一個承包商要負起相關統合的責任，必須指定一個廠商來做這件事情，這也是針對目前我們在工地現場看到的工地文化及樣態，給予相關制度修訂的回應。"],["王委員正旭：所以未來有沒有機會針對某一些特定的工程，剛剛有提到一些民間工程或者是屬於政府部門的工程，如果有機會先了解它的風險是非常高的話，有沒有機會先去做臨場的管理？這部分不知道未來……"],["洪部長申翰：這其實就是我們在講的源頭管理的部分，也就是業主在源頭一開始的時候，他就要做相關的風險掌握，甚至相關的風險評估、設計跟管理，這其實就是我們所說的在源頭管理，就必須要課予他負起這樣的責任，如果沒有做，那就要開罰。"],["王委員正旭：因為現在的建築物在設計上的風格為了要凸顯它的特色，所以從它的設計圖就可以理解它的風險，尤其是高空墜落的風險可能是非常非常高的。針對這部分，我的意思是有沒有機會在開始有設計圖出現的時候，相關單位就能夠掌握到在未來風險極高之下，是不是應該要……"],["洪部長申翰：這就是我們剛剛說的，其實在規劃設計的階段，他在一開始的時候，就要把風險評估跟風險管理的方式給做出來，他有責任必須做出來，以後不能再迴避這件事情。"],["王委員正旭：OK，那就麻煩這部分要再加強，謝謝。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["王委員正旭：第二個要跟部長討論一下強化勞工健康服務的部分，因為我來自醫界，所以對於勞工的健康服務一直都有很深的感受。去年6月我們有看到職安署職業安全衛生研究所提出了一份報告，不知道部長有沒有機會去了解這份報告？這份報告主要是從2011年開始，針對300名員工以上的職場實施臨場健康服務以來，把十幾年來的經驗彙整以後，針對這個過程裡面的勞工健康服務效益做一個評估，在這個評估裡面也特別訪談了145家具特別危害健康作業職場的勞工健康服務人員，包括醫護及職安衛的同仁進行相關的了解及調查，其中整理出九點政策建議，包括有五大點：第一個是要調整訂定成效指標；第二個是要修正勞工健康保護規則；第三個是紀錄表單要更彈性簡易；第四個是要依照行業特性提供健康指引；第五個是提供充分訓練資源、強化溝通及推廣訓練等等，這部分很具體的是針對比較大型、具有比較多勞工同仁的健康服務過程裡面，希望有更好的政策推行。針對這部分，不知道部長有沒有其他的建議，或者是有沒有可能在1個月裡面給我們一份政策建議可行性的報告？"],["林署長毓堂：沒有問題，這部分我們已經努力在做。"],["王委員正旭：好，這個部分就麻煩了，針對健康服務的部分可以再加強。"],["洪部長申翰：好。"],["王委員正旭：第三個是要跟部長討論鼓勵企業提供勞工癌篩及罹癌的後續協助。我們知道有一個癌症跟勞工朋友的職業及生活習慣有非常大的關係，就是口腔癌。針對剛剛所提到的那份報告，也就是在健康服務裡面是不是能夠更加強與勞工朋友比較相關的口腔癌的服務？其實很多勞工朋友不是不願意去篩檢，而是他們很擔心篩檢以後，萬一被診斷癌症，將會造成許多困擾與干擾，還有他們未來的就業會不會受到影響等等。其實口腔癌病人在目前的治療之下可以提供良好的預後，將近有五成到六成勞工朋友的口腔癌經過處理就可以改善了，可是當然也有一些是比較晚期的病人，平均之下，診斷為口腔癌的勞工預期平均壽命是13.7年，他的健康餘命是12.4年，相較於沒有癌症的病人，他們損失了15.1年的壽命，以及16.4年的健康餘命，也就是他所受到的影響，其實對於家庭、社會及工作來講，都會造成許多嚴重的後果。所以我剛剛才會提到為什麼他們有時候對於篩檢會有疑慮，因為他們擔心一旦確診以後，後續治療對於他工作的影響，如果他後來把癌症治好了，他回到職場所受到的影響等等，會讓他們造成一些擔心，這部分可能也要麻煩部裡面看看有沒有更好的政策來加強，也就是在健康服務的同時，也讓這些勞工們知道，他們在這部分如何透過雇主來強化有關於健康服務的模式。","我們也知道，現在賴總統在打造健康台灣，但是健康台灣其實就是很希望所有的國民都能夠得到很好的健康服務模式。我們剛剛有提到，根據113年的那一份報告，我們期待健康服務的內涵應該不只是安全或者是合法而已，我們希望把這個健康服務的概念，能夠真的帶入健康台灣的一些政策，希望可以具體來呈現。","最後，我們希望在整體的政策上，也透過勞動部這邊的努力，將健康台灣的政策目標納入企業永續的指標裡面。第二個部分，要強化、鼓勵企業提供罹癌員工的協助方案，剛剛有提到一些因口腔癌所造成的困境；還有強化提供癌症康復員工續聘跟工作調整；透過勞工健康服務機制來鼓勵勞工癌篩，希望能夠納為政策性的內涵，而不是我們在做健康服務的過程裡面，只是合法有在運作而已。這部分可不可以請勞動部也能夠在1個月內提出相關具體推動的書面報告給我們參考？"],["洪部長申翰：好，沒問題。"],["王委員正旭：OK，就麻煩部長，還有請同仁加油，謝謝。"],["洪部長申翰：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王委員，謝謝部長。","現在休息10分鐘。","休息（11時11分）","繼續開會（11時23分）"],["主席（王委員正旭代）：現在繼續開會。","麻煩下一位劉建國委員、召委發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":358,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-9","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍","王育敏","林淑芬","王正旭","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","麥玉珍","陳培瑜","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","楊曜","陳瑩"],"page_start":291,"meetingDate":["2025-04-30"],"gazette_id":"1144501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144501_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長、經濟部及內政部就「五一勞動節前夕，我國勞工職場預防職業災害及場（廠）\n墜落事故之檢討與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144501_00006"}}}