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00:00:47,892\n委員好部長早因為今天委會安排的議題就是有關鐵路運營安全事件的檢討所以本席還是針對有關台鐵的營運安全再跟部長還有我們的吳代理董事長來進行討論雖然這都已經老生常談了可是我覺得說真的好像談到我不曉得說是不是都麻痺了我覺得這個真的是一個很嚴重的問題\n\n3\n00:00:48,752 --> 00:01:16,480\n因為我們看到從去年2024年12月19號這個潮州基地發生了這個就是新型的自強號在檢修的時候撞上紙衝擋一直到今年就是就這個月4月20號還發生了這個就是進行連掛作業的時候為停車撞上新自強號這樣子短短不到5個月的時間就發生了七件的這個吊車事故\n\n4\n00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:38,707\n而且這個吊車事故都是人為因素嘛都是人為的一個因素那我們再來看一下就是一樣從今年1月5號就是這個司機員錯認位置所以導致這個車子最後一車沒有進月台一直到也是這個月份4月24號這樣子四個月內\n\n5\n00:01:42,048 --> 00:01:58,608\n就發生了七件的停車不當的事件那這幾件還有過站不停的三件所以這樣子的停車不當的事件也是人為的因素所造成的所以我覺得這狀況部長你覺得嚴不嚴重\n\n6\n00:02:01,216 --> 00:02:22,167\n報告委員,就數據上來看,我認為是嚴重的,而且一般的民眾也覺得會有不安的感覺,所以這個部分我們要趕快來改善,並且要趕快來做改革的行為。所以我覺得說這樣子的一個事故的頻繁,我覺得真的就好像是不是都讓台鐵的人都覺得見怪不怪了,好像都麻痺了。\n\n7\n00:02:23,032 --> 00:02:48,066\n包委員這就是我們擔心的就是說我們的員工我們的同仁有沒有照SOP在進行的這件事我們接下來會強烈的要求並且對於沒有照SOP來做工作的這個執行的時候我們會做比較嚴厲的懲處這是一方面那二方面整體的改革方案我也已經拜託台鐵公司在做準備包含耗製的部分的安全要怎麼樣加強\n\n8\n00:02:48,866 --> 00:03:03,528\n包含我們針對駕駛員的這個紀律的約束我們該怎麼做加強這個部分我們目前整包都在討論那我們希望趕快做這個改革的這個期程是好因為我們回想就是在台鐵\n\n9\n00:03:04,770 --> 00:03:28,686\n可以在最近幾年就是去年這樣子前年就是可以這樣加速的一個公司化也是因為台鐵發生了這個重大的一個事故之後在社會的一個期待跟壓力之下所以才加速了這個公司化那當初在公司化的時候台鐵自己喊的口號也是台鐵改革從安全開始\n\n10\n00:03:29,887 --> 00:03:48,707\n我們也是希望就是說我們加速這個台鐵公司化的期待也是希望台鐵在這個安全的部分能夠強化然後能夠增加民眾的一個信心可是這樣子超過一年的時間我們覺得說真的喪失信心了\n\n11\n00:03:49,708 --> 00:04:09,685\n所以到底要怎樣來落實這個改革剛剛部長講的我是覺得說我應該還要再去思考那到底是什麼原因造成我們的司機也好或者是調度員也好這個人偽事故的一個疏失\n\n12\n00:04:10,365 --> 00:04:26,801\n因為我覺得說懲處也不是唯一的一個辦法要去了解什麼原因造成他們發生這樣一個疏失是壓力過大還是勞力不均等等造成的一個結果\n\n13\n00:04:27,802 --> 00:04:42,988\n我覺得應該從源頭去找出來原因之後去做一個調整不然的話如果說一味的說要加強這個懲處我覺得這可能又造成他們更大的壓力懲處是最後啦對前面其實該加強的是什麼是我們的員工的教育訓練對\n\n14\n00:04:44,048 --> 00:04:59,262\n做事情要照SOP因為我們目前就每一個案件看起來很多都是因為員工並沒有照該規定的SOP下去做那所以這個部分我們要要求他們必須要照SOP下去做懲處是最後如果你真的沒有照SOP我只好懲處你\n\n15\n00:05:00,043 --> 00:05:22,826\n那前面除了SOP的這個教育訓練之外我們也會加強就是說在駕駛員的訓練之外就是說針對駕駛員因為運安會其實在五六年前也有要求過我們希望在駕駛室裡面有影音的安全輔助系統那這個部分我們也在今年度一定會來推進這個進程一定要做到運安會對我們的要求\n\n16\n00:05:23,546 --> 00:05:43,978\n這個部分我們一定要做到所以整體的改革的方案目前台鐵正在研擬不只是駕駛式也不只是教育訓練或者是說SOP的執行跟落實那另外針對硬體的部分的改革我們也目前正在進行當中跟委員報告對是我也有看到新聞報導就是有關月台\n\n17\n00:05:44,478 --> 00:06:13,220\n安全門的加強我們也都在做剛剛部長講到說SOP要落實就是說目前我們有關這個安全營運的各個面向的安全的SOP都有確實有訂好了嗎訂好這樣子的SOP都有報告委員其實SOP一直都有現在的問題是在於說我們的朋友沒有落實沒有依照SOP的規定下去做沒有按照規定去做那有沒有去了解為什麼沒有按照規定去做\n\n18\n00:06:14,276 --> 00:06:32,492\n這個是不是要去要先去找出原因啦不然如果說我們高層我們營運的那個層級定了SOP然後結果基層做不到是做不到還是不會做要去了解一個原因是我跟委員\n\n19\n00:06:33,615 --> 00:07:02,830\n我跟委員報告齁剛提到的SOP真的都是有確實有我以4月20號這個對4月20號這個案件來講因為會大概現在也進入要調查了齁那我們初步其實我們內部有先了解過齁4月20號那個他本來應該要他是要連結他應該要一度停車但是他沒有依照SOP一度停車我們有訪問他的去了解訪問他的那到底怎麼回事那他給我們答案說他就恍神了\n\n20\n00:07:03,670 --> 00:07:27,845\n恍神那是因為睡眠不足還是是壓力太大倒不是講對他就講說啊大概因為按推的大概就講說是家裡的一些因素造成他的一些恍神後面我們還是會配合應安會可以強加然後才確認那剛部長提到的SOP我們是跟他講就是在這裡\n\n21\n00:07:28,846 --> 00:07:54,795\n你如果有問題應該提出來如果跟你講你還沒有這樣做的話那如果再出事我們真的就是一定要嚴懲這我覺得是最後手段你拿出來官方就變成拉五桿了啦對當然就是陳屬是最後手段那本席要強調就是說要去了解原因從源頭去解決啦那當然就是說有關員工的心理輔導或者是家庭的一些因素可能也要多加關心\n\n22\n00:07:55,895 --> 00:08:13,830\n才會避免一些這樣子的狀況發生另外當然就是說我們公司化之後也要靠多元的一個經營來希望也能夠轉虧為盈我們看到目前我們台鐵推出的觀光列車\n\n23\n00:08:15,411 --> 00:08:40,331\n是頗受好評的嘛那收益應該不錯啦吳代理董事長您的瞭解這幾個都很搶手確實都很搶手那本席在這邊是不是可以建議我們台鐵規劃一下就是每年就是春天就是三月份左右我們二水站這個鐵軌沿線的花旗幕盛開的時候\n\n24\n00:08:41,131 --> 00:08:57,532\n這個景色可以媲美日本的景色非常的漂亮然後也吸引了很多的遊客所以是不是可以明年規劃讓我們的山南號可以行駛經過停靠二水火車站\n\n25\n00:08:59,254 --> 00:09:18,596\n跟委員報告剛剛提到這些觀光列車有些它有行駛區域性的關係環島之星大概二水這邊沒有問題那以剛剛那個委員所提到的三欄號的部分目前我們現在維吾爾的廠商我據了解他們已經先前排到今年的十月了今年\n\n26\n00:09:19,136 --> 00:09:29,535\n今年的十月都已經排定了所以這個部分我想我們再來跟他協商看看看是不是可以把這部分把它放進來這個我們到再跟這個廠商再協調\n\n27\n00:09:30,605 --> 00:09:52,954\n對我想應該還有還可以去因為還有時間嘛排到十月而已啊明年這因為花季是明年三月啦我們來努力我們來跟他們協調因為我們也希望就是說結合這樣子的一個亮點然後推銷我們在地的觀光啦因為這個也是要互相結合的是是是好那謝謝部長跟謝謝吳代理謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3563\t7212\t謝謝主席 請主席邀請部長還有吳代理董事長陳部長還有我們吳代理董事長\n19485\t47892\t委員好部長早因為今天委會安排的議題就是有關鐵路運營安全事件的檢討所以本席還是針對有關台鐵的營運安全再跟部長還有我們的吳代理董事長來進行討論雖然這都已經老生常談了可是我覺得說真的好像談到我不曉得說是不是都麻痺了我覺得這個真的是一個很嚴重的問題\n48752\t76480\t因為我們看到從去年2024年12月19號這個潮州基地發生了這個就是新型的自強號在檢修的時候撞上紙衝擋一直到今年就是就這個月4月20號還發生了這個就是進行連掛作業的時候為停車撞上新自強號這樣子短短不到5個月的時間就發生了七件的這個吊車事故\n77040\t98707\t而且這個吊車事故都是人為因素嘛都是人為的一個因素那我們再來看一下就是一樣從今年1月5號就是這個司機員錯認位置所以導致這個車子最後一車沒有進月台一直到也是這個月份4月24號這樣子四個月內\n102048\t118608\t就發生了七件的停車不當的事件那這幾件還有過站不停的三件所以這樣子的停車不當的事件也是人為的因素所造成的所以我覺得這狀況部長你覺得嚴不嚴重\n121216\t142167\t報告委員,就數據上來看,我認為是嚴重的,而且一般的民眾也覺得會有不安的感覺,所以這個部分我們要趕快來改善,並且要趕快來做改革的行為。所以我覺得說這樣子的一個事故的頻繁,我覺得真的就好像是不是都讓台鐵的人都覺得見怪不怪了,好像都麻痺了。\n143032\t168066\t包委員這就是我們擔心的就是說我們的員工我們的同仁有沒有照SOP在進行的這件事我們接下來會強烈的要求並且對於沒有照SOP來做工作的這個執行的時候我們會做比較嚴厲的懲處這是一方面那二方面整體的改革方案我也已經拜託台鐵公司在做準備包含耗製的部分的安全要怎麼樣加強\n168866\t183528\t包含我們針對駕駛員的這個紀律的約束我們該怎麼做加強這個部分我們目前整包都在討論那我們希望趕快做這個改革的這個期程是好因為我們回想就是在台鐵\n184770\t208686\t可以在最近幾年就是去年這樣子前年就是可以這樣加速的一個公司化也是因為台鐵發生了這個重大的一個事故之後在社會的一個期待跟壓力之下所以才加速了這個公司化那當初在公司化的時候台鐵自己喊的口號也是台鐵改革從安全開始\n209887\t228707\t我們也是希望就是說我們加速這個台鐵公司化的期待也是希望台鐵在這個安全的部分能夠強化然後能夠增加民眾的一個信心可是這樣子超過一年的時間我們覺得說真的喪失信心了\n229708\t249685\t所以到底要怎樣來落實這個改革剛剛部長講的我是覺得說我應該還要再去思考那到底是什麼原因造成我們的司機也好或者是調度員也好這個人偽事故的一個疏失\n250365\t266801\t因為我覺得說懲處也不是唯一的一個辦法要去了解什麼原因造成他們發生這樣一個疏失是壓力過大還是勞力不均等等造成的一個結果\n267802\t282988\t我覺得應該從源頭去找出來原因之後去做一個調整不然的話如果說一味的說要加強這個懲處我覺得這可能又造成他們更大的壓力懲處是最後啦對前面其實該加強的是什麼是我們的員工的教育訓練對\n284048\t299262\t做事情要照SOP因為我們目前就每一個案件看起來很多都是因為員工並沒有照該規定的SOP下去做那所以這個部分我們要要求他們必須要照SOP下去做懲處是最後如果你真的沒有照SOP我只好懲處你\n300043\t322826\t那前面除了SOP的這個教育訓練之外我們也會加強就是說在駕駛員的訓練之外就是說針對駕駛員因為運安會其實在五六年前也有要求過我們希望在駕駛室裡面有影音的安全輔助系統那這個部分我們也在今年度一定會來推進這個進程一定要做到運安會對我們的要求\n323546\t343978\t這個部分我們一定要做到所以整體的改革的方案目前台鐵正在研擬不只是駕駛式也不只是教育訓練或者是說SOP的執行跟落實那另外針對硬體的部分的改革我們也目前正在進行當中跟委員報告對 是 我也有看到新聞報導就是有關月台\n344478\t373220\t安全門的加強我們也都在做剛剛部長講到說SOP要落實就是說目前我們有關這個安全營運的各個面向的安全的SOP都有確實有訂好了嗎訂好這樣子的SOP都有報告委員其實SOP一直都有現在的問題是在於說我們的朋友沒有落實沒有依照SOP的規定下去做沒有按照規定去做那有沒有去了解為什麼沒有按照規定去做\n374276\t392492\t這個是不是要去要先去找出原因啦不然如果說我們高層我們營運的那個層級定了SOP然後結果基層做不到是做不到還是不會做要去了解一個原因是我跟委員\n393615\t422830\t我跟委員報告齁 剛提到的SOP真的都是有確實有 我以4月20號這個對 4月20號這個案件來講因為會大概現在也進入要調查了齁那我們初步其實我們內部有先了解過齁4月20號那個他本來應該要 他是要連結他應該要一度停車但是他沒有依照SOP一度停車我們有訪問他的 去了解訪問他的那到底怎麼回事那他給我們答案說 他就恍神了\n423670\t447845\t恍神那是因為睡眠不足還是是壓力太大倒不是講對他就講說啊大概因為按推的大概就講說是家裡的一些因素造成他的一些恍神後面我們還是會配合應安會可以強加然後才確認那剛部長提到的SOP我們是跟他講就是在這裡\n448846\t474795\t你如果有問題應該提出來如果跟你講你還沒有這樣做的話那如果再出事我們真的就是一定要嚴懲這我覺得是最後手段你拿出來官方就變成拉五桿了啦對當然就是陳屬是最後手段那本席要強調就是說要去了解原因從源頭去解決啦那當然就是說有關員工的心理輔導或者是家庭的一些因素可能也要多加關心\n475895\t493830\t才會避免一些這樣子的狀況發生另外當然就是說我們公司化之後也要靠多元的一個經營來希望也能夠轉虧為盈我們看到目前我們台鐵推出的觀光列車\n495411\t520331\t是頗受好評的嘛那收益應該不錯啦吳代理董事長您的瞭解這幾個都很搶手確實都很搶手那本席在這邊是不是可以建議我們台鐵規劃一下就是每年就是春天就是三月份左右我們二水站這個鐵軌沿線的花旗幕盛開的時候\n521131\t537532\t這個景色可以媲美日本的景色非常的漂亮然後也吸引了很多的遊客所以是不是可以明年規劃讓我們的山南號可以行駛經過停靠二水火車站\n539254\t558596\t跟委員報告 剛剛提到這些觀光列車有些它有行駛區域性的關係環島之星大概二水這邊沒有問題那以剛剛那個委員所提到的三欄號的部分目前我們現在維吾爾的廠商我據了解他們已經先前排到今年的十月了今年\n559136\t569535\t今年的十月都已經排定了所以這個部分我想我們再來跟他協商看看看是不是可以把這部分把它放進來這個我們到再跟這個廠商再協調\n570605\t592954\t對 我想應該還有 還可以去因為還有時間嘛 排到十月而已啊 明年 這因為花季是明年三月啦我們來努力 我們來跟他們協調因為我們也希望就是說 結合這樣子的一個亮點然後推銷我們在地的觀光啦因為這個也是要互相結合的是是是好 那謝謝部長跟謝謝吳代理謝謝委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席 請主席邀請部長還有吳代理董事長陳部長還有我們吳代理董事長\n委員好部長早因為今天委會安排的議題就是有關鐵路運營安全事件的檢討所以本席還是針對有關台鐵的營運安全再跟部長還有我們的吳代理董事長來進行討論雖然這都已經老生常談了可是我覺得說真的好像談到我不曉得說是不是都麻痺了我覺得這個真的是一個很嚴重的問題\n因為我們看到從去年2024年12月19號這個潮州基地發生了這個就是新型的自強號在檢修的時候撞上紙衝擋一直到今年就是就這個月4月20號還發生了這個就是進行連掛作業的時候為停車撞上新自強號這樣子短短不到5個月的時間就發生了七件的這個吊車事故\n而且這個吊車事故都是人為因素嘛都是人為的一個因素那我們再來看一下就是一樣從今年1月5號就是這個司機員錯認位置所以導致這個車子最後一車沒有進月台一直到也是這個月份4月24號這樣子四個月內\n就發生了七件的停車不當的事件那這幾件還有過站不停的三件所以這樣子的停車不當的事件也是人為的因素所造成的所以我覺得這狀況部長你覺得嚴不嚴重\n報告委員,就數據上來看,我認為是嚴重的,而且一般的民眾也覺得會有不安的感覺,所以這個部分我們要趕快來改善,並且要趕快來做改革的行為。所以我覺得說這樣子的一個事故的頻繁,我覺得真的就好像是不是都讓台鐵的人都覺得見怪不怪了,好像都麻痺了。\n包委員這就是我們擔心的就是說我們的員工我們的同仁有沒有照SOP在進行的這件事我們接下來會強烈的要求並且對於沒有照SOP來做工作的這個執行的時候我們會做比較嚴厲的懲處這是一方面那二方面整體的改革方案我也已經拜託台鐵公司在做準備包含耗製的部分的安全要怎麼樣加強\n包含我們針對駕駛員的這個紀律的約束我們該怎麼做加強這個部分我們目前整包都在討論那我們希望趕快做這個改革的這個期程是好因為我們回想就是在台鐵\n可以在最近幾年就是去年這樣子前年就是可以這樣加速的一個公司化也是因為台鐵發生了這個重大的一個事故之後在社會的一個期待跟壓力之下所以才加速了這個公司化那當初在公司化的時候台鐵自己喊的口號也是台鐵改革從安全開始\n我們也是希望就是說我們加速這個台鐵公司化的期待也是希望台鐵在這個安全的部分能夠強化然後能夠增加民眾的一個信心可是這樣子超過一年的時間我們覺得說真的喪失信心了\n所以到底要怎樣來落實這個改革剛剛部長講的我是覺得說我應該還要再去思考那到底是什麼原因造成我們的司機也好或者是調度員也好這個人偽事故的一個疏失\n因為我覺得說懲處也不是唯一的一個辦法要去了解什麼原因造成他們發生這樣一個疏失是壓力過大還是勞力不均等等造成的一個結果\n我覺得應該從源頭去找出來原因之後去做一個調整不然的話如果說一味的說要加強這個懲處我覺得這可能又造成他們更大的壓力懲處是最後啦對前面其實該加強的是什麼是我們的員工的教育訓練對\n做事情要照SOP因為我們目前就每一個案件看起來很多都是因為員工並沒有照該規定的SOP下去做那所以這個部分我們要要求他們必須要照SOP下去做懲處是最後如果你真的沒有照SOP我只好懲處你\n那前面除了SOP的這個教育訓練之外我們也會加強就是說在駕駛員的訓練之外就是說針對駕駛員因為運安會其實在五六年前也有要求過我們希望在駕駛室裡面有影音的安全輔助系統那這個部分我們也在今年度一定會來推進這個進程一定要做到運安會對我們的要求\n這個部分我們一定要做到所以整體的改革的方案目前台鐵正在研擬不只是駕駛式也不只是教育訓練或者是說SOP的執行跟落實那另外針對硬體的部分的改革我們也目前正在進行當中跟委員報告對 是 我也有看到新聞報導就是有關月台\n安全門的加強我們也都在做剛剛部長講到說SOP要落實就是說目前我們有關這個安全營運的各個面向的安全的SOP都有確實有訂好了嗎訂好這樣子的SOP都有報告委員其實SOP一直都有現在的問題是在於說我們的朋友沒有落實沒有依照SOP的規定下去做沒有按照規定去做那有沒有去了解為什麼沒有按照規定去做\n這個是不是要去要先去找出原因啦不然如果說我們高層我們營運的那個層級定了SOP然後結果基層做不到是做不到還是不會做要去了解一個原因是我跟委員\n我跟委員報告齁 剛提到的SOP真的都是有確實有 我以4月20號這個對 4月20號這個案件來講因為會大概現在也進入要調查了齁那我們初步其實我們內部有先了解過齁4月20號那個他本來應該要 他是要連結他應該要一度停車但是他沒有依照SOP一度停車我們有訪問他的 去了解訪問他的那到底怎麼回事那他給我們答案說 他就恍神了\n恍神那是因為睡眠不足還是是壓力太大倒不是講對他就講說啊大概因為按推的大概就講說是家裡的一些因素造成他的一些恍神後面我們還是會配合應安會可以強加然後才確認那剛部長提到的SOP我們是跟他講就是在這裡\n你如果有問題應該提出來如果跟你講你還沒有這樣做的話那如果再出事我們真的就是一定要嚴懲這我覺得是最後手段你拿出來官方就變成拉五桿了啦對當然就是陳屬是最後手段那本席要強調就是說要去了解原因從源頭去解決啦那當然就是說有關員工的心理輔導或者是家庭的一些因素可能也要多加關心\n才會避免一些這樣子的狀況發生另外當然就是說我們公司化之後也要靠多元的一個經營來希望也能夠轉虧為盈我們看到目前我們台鐵推出的觀光列車\n是頗受好評的嘛那收益應該不錯啦吳代理董事長您的瞭解這幾個都很搶手確實都很搶手那本席在這邊是不是可以建議我們台鐵規劃一下就是每年就是春天就是三月份左右我們二水站這個鐵軌沿線的花旗幕盛開的時候\n這個景色可以媲美日本的景色非常的漂亮然後也吸引了很多的遊客所以是不是可以明年規劃讓我們的山南號可以行駛經過停靠二水火車站\n跟委員報告 剛剛提到這些觀光列車有些它有行駛區域性的關係環島之星大概二水這邊沒有問題那以剛剛那個委員所提到的三欄號的部分目前我們現在維吾爾的廠商我據了解他們已經先前排到今年的十月了今年\n今年的十月都已經排定了所以這個部分我想我們再來跟他協商看看看是不是可以把這部分把它放進來這個我們到再跟這個廠商再協調\n對 我想應該還有 還可以去因為還有時間嘛 排到十月而已啊 明年 這因為花季是明年三月啦我們來努力 我們來跟他們協調因為我們也希望就是說 結合這樣子的一個亮點然後推銷我們在地的觀光啦因為這個也是要互相結合的是是是好 那謝謝部長跟謝謝吳代理謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.563 --> 00:07.212\n謝謝主席請主席邀請部長還有吳代理董事長陳部長還有我們吳代理董事長\n\n00:19.485 --> 00:47.892\n委員好部長早因為今天委會安排的議題就是有關鐵路運營安全事件的檢討所以本席還是針對有關台鐵的營運安全再跟部長還有我們的吳代理董事長來進行討論雖然這都已經老生常談了可是我覺得說真的好像談到我不曉得說是不是都麻痺了我覺得這個真的是一個很嚴重的問題\n\n00:48.752 --> 01:16.480\n因為我們看到從去年2024年12月19號這個潮州基地發生了這個就是新型的自強號在檢修的時候撞上紙衝擋一直到今年就是就這個月4月20號還發生了這個就是進行連掛作業的時候為停車撞上新自強號這樣子短短不到5個月的時間就發生了七件的這個吊車事故\n\n01:17.040 --> 01:38.707\n而且這個吊車事故都是人為因素嘛都是人為的一個因素那我們再來看一下就是一樣從今年1月5號就是這個司機員錯認位置所以導致這個車子最後一車沒有進月台一直到也是這個月份4月24號這樣子四個月內\n\n01:42.048 --> 01:58.608\n就發生了七件的停車不當的事件那這幾件還有過站不停的三件所以這樣子的停車不當的事件也是人為的因素所造成的所以我覺得這狀況部長你覺得嚴不嚴重\n\n02:01.216 --> 02:22.167\n報告委員,就數據上來看,我認為是嚴重的,而且一般的民眾也覺得會有不安的感覺,所以這個部分我們要趕快來改善,並且要趕快來做改革的行為。所以我覺得說這樣子的一個事故的頻繁,我覺得真的就好像是不是都讓台鐵的人都覺得見怪不怪了,好像都麻痺了。\n\n02:23.032 --> 02:48.066\n包委員這就是我們擔心的就是說我們的員工我們的同仁有沒有照SOP在進行的這件事我們接下來會強烈的要求並且對於沒有照SOP來做工作的這個執行的時候我們會做比較嚴厲的懲處這是一方面那二方面整體的改革方案我也已經拜託台鐵公司在做準備包含耗製的部分的安全要怎麼樣加強\n\n02:48.866 --> 03:03.528\n包含我們針對駕駛員的這個紀律的約束我們該怎麼做加強這個部分我們目前整包都在討論那我們希望趕快做這個改革的這個期程是好因為我們回想就是在台鐵\n\n03:04.770 --> 03:28.686\n可以在最近幾年就是去年這樣子前年就是可以這樣加速的一個公司化也是因為台鐵發生了這個重大的一個事故之後在社會的一個期待跟壓力之下所以才加速了這個公司化那當初在公司化的時候台鐵自己喊的口號也是台鐵改革從安全開始\n\n03:29.887 --> 03:48.707\n我們也是希望就是說我們加速這個台鐵公司化的期待也是希望台鐵在這個安全的部分能夠強化然後能夠增加民眾的一個信心可是這樣子超過一年的時間我們覺得說真的喪失信心了\n\n03:49.708 --> 04:09.685\n所以到底要怎樣來落實這個改革剛剛部長講的我是覺得說我應該還要再去思考那到底是什麼原因造成我們的司機也好或者是調度員也好這個人偽事故的一個疏失\n\n04:10.365 --> 04:26.801\n因為我覺得說懲處也不是唯一的一個辦法要去了解什麼原因造成他們發生這樣一個疏失是壓力過大還是勞力不均等等造成的一個結果\n\n04:27.802 --> 04:42.988\n我覺得應該從源頭去找出來原因之後去做一個調整不然的話如果說一味的說要加強這個懲處我覺得這可能又造成他們更大的壓力懲處是最後啦對前面其實該加強的是什麼是我們的員工的教育訓練對\n\n04:44.048 --> 04:59.262\n做事情要照SOP因為我們目前就每一個案件看起來很多都是因為員工並沒有照該規定的SOP下去做那所以這個部分我們要要求他們必須要照SOP下去做懲處是最後如果你真的沒有照SOP我只好懲處你\n\n05:00.043 --> 05:22.826\n那前面除了SOP的這個教育訓練之外我們也會加強就是說在駕駛員的訓練之外就是說針對駕駛員因為運安會其實在五六年前也有要求過我們希望在駕駛室裡面有影音的安全輔助系統那這個部分我們也在今年度一定會來推進這個進程一定要做到運安會對我們的要求\n\n05:23.546 --> 05:43.978\n這個部分我們一定要做到所以整體的改革的方案目前台鐵正在研擬不只是駕駛式也不只是教育訓練或者是說SOP的執行跟落實那另外針對硬體的部分的改革我們也目前正在進行當中跟委員報告對是我也有看到新聞報導就是有關月台\n\n05:44.478 --> 06:13.220\n安全門的加強我們也都在做剛剛部長講到說SOP要落實就是說目前我們有關這個安全營運的各個面向的安全的SOP都有確實有訂好了嗎訂好這樣子的SOP都有報告委員其實SOP一直都有現在的問題是在於說我們的朋友沒有落實沒有依照SOP的規定下去做沒有按照規定去做那有沒有去了解為什麼沒有按照規定去做\n\n06:14.276 --> 06:32.492\n這個是不是要去要先去找出原因啦不然如果說我們高層我們營運的那個層級定了SOP然後結果基層做不到是做不到還是不會做要去了解一個原因是我跟委員\n\n06:33.615 --> 07:02.830\n我跟委員報告齁剛提到的SOP真的都是有確實有我以4月20號這個對4月20號這個案件來講因為會大概現在也進入要調查了齁那我們初步其實我們內部有先了解過齁4月20號那個他本來應該要他是要連結他應該要一度停車但是他沒有依照SOP一度停車我們有訪問他的去了解訪問他的那到底怎麼回事那他給我們答案說他就恍神了\n\n07:03.670 --> 07:27.845\n恍神那是因為睡眠不足還是是壓力太大倒不是講對他就講說啊大概因為按推的大概就講說是家裡的一些因素造成他的一些恍神後面我們還是會配合應安會可以強加然後才確認那剛部長提到的SOP我們是跟他講就是在這裡\n\n07:28.846 --> 07:54.795\n你如果有問題應該提出來如果跟你講你還沒有這樣做的話那如果再出事我們真的就是一定要嚴懲這我覺得是最後手段你拿出來官方就變成拉五桿了啦對當然就是陳屬是最後手段那本席要強調就是說要去了解原因從源頭去解決啦那當然就是說有關員工的心理輔導或者是家庭的一些因素可能也要多加關心\n\n07:55.895 --> 08:13.830\n才會避免一些這樣子的狀況發生另外當然就是說我們公司化之後也要靠多元的一個經營來希望也能夠轉虧為盈我們看到目前我們台鐵推出的觀光列車\n\n08:15.411 --> 08:40.331\n是頗受好評的嘛那收益應該不錯啦吳代理董事長您的瞭解這幾個都很搶手確實都很搶手那本席在這邊是不是可以建議我們台鐵規劃一下就是每年就是春天就是三月份左右我們二水站這個鐵軌沿線的花旗幕盛開的時候\n\n08:41.131 --> 08:57.532\n這個景色可以媲美日本的景色非常的漂亮然後也吸引了很多的遊客所以是不是可以明年規劃讓我們的山南號可以行駛經過停靠二水火車站\n\n08:59.254 --> 09:18.596\n跟委員報告剛剛提到這些觀光列車有些它有行駛區域性的關係環島之星大概二水這邊沒有問題那以剛剛那個委員所提到的三欄號的部分目前我們現在維吾爾的廠商我據了解他們已經先前排到今年的十月了今年\n\n09:19.136 --> 09:29.535\n今年的十月都已經排定了所以這個部分我想我們再來跟他協商看看看是不是可以把這部分把它放進來這個我們到再跟這個廠商再協調\n\n09:30.605 --> 09:52.954\n對我想應該還有還可以去因為還有時間嘛排到十月而已啊明年這因為花季是明年三月啦我們來努力我們來跟他們協調因為我們也希望就是說結合這樣子的一個亮點然後推銷我們在地的觀光啦因為這個也是要互相結合的是是是好那謝謝部長跟謝謝吳代理謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.563,"end":7.212,"text":"謝謝主席 請主席邀請部長還有吳代理董事長陳部長還有我們吳代理董事長"},{"start":19.485,"end":47.892,"text":"委員好部長早因為今天委會安排的議題就是有關鐵路運營安全事件的檢討所以本席還是針對有關台鐵的營運安全再跟部長還有我們的吳代理董事長來進行討論雖然這都已經老生常談了可是我覺得說真的好像談到我不曉得說是不是都麻痺了我覺得這個真的是一個很嚴重的問題"},{"start":48.752,"end":76.48,"text":"因為我們看到從去年2024年12月19號這個潮州基地發生了這個就是新型的自強號在檢修的時候撞上紙衝擋一直到今年就是就這個月4月20號還發生了這個就是進行連掛作業的時候為停車撞上新自強號這樣子短短不到5個月的時間就發生了七件的這個吊車事故"},{"start":77.04,"end":98.707,"text":"而且這個吊車事故都是人為因素嘛都是人為的一個因素那我們再來看一下就是一樣從今年1月5號就是這個司機員錯認位置所以導致這個車子最後一車沒有進月台一直到也是這個月份4月24號這樣子四個月內"},{"start":102.048,"end":118.608,"text":"就發生了七件的停車不當的事件那這幾件還有過站不停的三件所以這樣子的停車不當的事件也是人為的因素所造成的所以我覺得這狀況部長你覺得嚴不嚴重"},{"start":121.216,"end":142.167,"text":"報告委員,就數據上來看,我認為是嚴重的,而且一般的民眾也覺得會有不安的感覺,所以這個部分我們要趕快來改善,並且要趕快來做改革的行為。所以我覺得說這樣子的一個事故的頻繁,我覺得真的就好像是不是都讓台鐵的人都覺得見怪不怪了,好像都麻痺了。"},{"start":143.032,"end":168.066,"text":"包委員這就是我們擔心的就是說我們的員工我們的同仁有沒有照SOP在進行的這件事我們接下來會強烈的要求並且對於沒有照SOP來做工作的這個執行的時候我們會做比較嚴厲的懲處這是一方面那二方面整體的改革方案我也已經拜託台鐵公司在做準備包含耗製的部分的安全要怎麼樣加強"},{"start":168.866,"end":183.528,"text":"包含我們針對駕駛員的這個紀律的約束我們該怎麼做加強這個部分我們目前整包都在討論那我們希望趕快做這個改革的這個期程是好因為我們回想就是在台鐵"},{"start":184.77,"end":208.686,"text":"可以在最近幾年就是去年這樣子前年就是可以這樣加速的一個公司化也是因為台鐵發生了這個重大的一個事故之後在社會的一個期待跟壓力之下所以才加速了這個公司化那當初在公司化的時候台鐵自己喊的口號也是台鐵改革從安全開始"},{"start":209.887,"end":228.707,"text":"我們也是希望就是說我們加速這個台鐵公司化的期待也是希望台鐵在這個安全的部分能夠強化然後能夠增加民眾的一個信心可是這樣子超過一年的時間我們覺得說真的喪失信心了"},{"start":229.708,"end":249.685,"text":"所以到底要怎樣來落實這個改革剛剛部長講的我是覺得說我應該還要再去思考那到底是什麼原因造成我們的司機也好或者是調度員也好這個人偽事故的一個疏失"},{"start":250.365,"end":266.801,"text":"因為我覺得說懲處也不是唯一的一個辦法要去了解什麼原因造成他們發生這樣一個疏失是壓力過大還是勞力不均等等造成的一個結果"},{"start":267.802,"end":282.988,"text":"我覺得應該從源頭去找出來原因之後去做一個調整不然的話如果說一味的說要加強這個懲處我覺得這可能又造成他們更大的壓力懲處是最後啦對前面其實該加強的是什麼是我們的員工的教育訓練對"},{"start":284.048,"end":299.262,"text":"做事情要照SOP因為我們目前就每一個案件看起來很多都是因為員工並沒有照該規定的SOP下去做那所以這個部分我們要要求他們必須要照SOP下去做懲處是最後如果你真的沒有照SOP我只好懲處你"},{"start":300.043,"end":322.826,"text":"那前面除了SOP的這個教育訓練之外我們也會加強就是說在駕駛員的訓練之外就是說針對駕駛員因為運安會其實在五六年前也有要求過我們希望在駕駛室裡面有影音的安全輔助系統那這個部分我們也在今年度一定會來推進這個進程一定要做到運安會對我們的要求"},{"start":323.546,"end":343.978,"text":"這個部分我們一定要做到所以整體的改革的方案目前台鐵正在研擬不只是駕駛式也不只是教育訓練或者是說SOP的執行跟落實那另外針對硬體的部分的改革我們也目前正在進行當中跟委員報告對 是 我也有看到新聞報導就是有關月台"},{"start":344.478,"end":373.22,"text":"安全門的加強我們也都在做剛剛部長講到說SOP要落實就是說目前我們有關這個安全營運的各個面向的安全的SOP都有確實有訂好了嗎訂好這樣子的SOP都有報告委員其實SOP一直都有現在的問題是在於說我們的朋友沒有落實沒有依照SOP的規定下去做沒有按照規定去做那有沒有去了解為什麼沒有按照規定去做"},{"start":374.276,"end":392.492,"text":"這個是不是要去要先去找出原因啦不然如果說我們高層我們營運的那個層級定了SOP然後結果基層做不到是做不到還是不會做要去了解一個原因是我跟委員"},{"start":393.615,"end":422.83,"text":"我跟委員報告齁 剛提到的SOP真的都是有確實有 我以4月20號這個對 4月20號這個案件來講因為會大概現在也進入要調查了齁那我們初步其實我們內部有先了解過齁4月20號那個他本來應該要 他是要連結他應該要一度停車但是他沒有依照SOP一度停車我們有訪問他的 去了解訪問他的那到底怎麼回事那他給我們答案說 他就恍神了"},{"start":423.67,"end":447.845,"text":"恍神那是因為睡眠不足還是是壓力太大倒不是講對他就講說啊大概因為按推的大概就講說是家裡的一些因素造成他的一些恍神後面我們還是會配合應安會可以強加然後才確認那剛部長提到的SOP我們是跟他講就是在這裡"},{"start":448.846,"end":474.795,"text":"你如果有問題應該提出來如果跟你講你還沒有這樣做的話那如果再出事我們真的就是一定要嚴懲這我覺得是最後手段你拿出來官方就變成拉五桿了啦對當然就是陳屬是最後手段那本席要強調就是說要去了解原因從源頭去解決啦那當然就是說有關員工的心理輔導或者是家庭的一些因素可能也要多加關心"},{"start":475.895,"end":493.83,"text":"才會避免一些這樣子的狀況發生另外當然就是說我們公司化之後也要靠多元的一個經營來希望也能夠轉虧為盈我們看到目前我們台鐵推出的觀光列車"},{"start":495.411,"end":520.331,"text":"是頗受好評的嘛那收益應該不錯啦吳代理董事長您的瞭解這幾個都很搶手確實都很搶手那本席在這邊是不是可以建議我們台鐵規劃一下就是每年就是春天就是三月份左右我們二水站這個鐵軌沿線的花旗幕盛開的時候"},{"start":521.131,"end":537.532,"text":"這個景色可以媲美日本的景色非常的漂亮然後也吸引了很多的遊客所以是不是可以明年規劃讓我們的山南號可以行駛經過停靠二水火車站"},{"start":539.254,"end":558.596,"text":"跟委員報告 剛剛提到這些觀光列車有些它有行駛區域性的關係環島之星大概二水這邊沒有問題那以剛剛那個委員所提到的三欄號的部分目前我們現在維吾爾的廠商我據了解他們已經先前排到今年的十月了今年"},{"start":559.136,"end":569.535,"text":"今年的十月都已經排定了所以這個部分我想我們再來跟他協商看看看是不是可以把這部分把它放進來這個我們到再跟這個廠商再協調"},{"start":570.605,"end":592.954,"text":"對 我想應該還有 還可以去因為還有時間嘛 排到十月而已啊 明年 這因為花季是明年三月啦我們來努力 我們來跟他們協調因為我們也希望就是說 結合這樣子的一個亮點然後推銷我們在地的觀光啦因為這個也是要互相結合的是是是好 那謝謝部長跟謝謝吳代理謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":593,"blocks":[["陳委員素月：（11時4分）謝謝主席。請主席邀請部長，還有伍代理董事長。"],["主席：陳部長還有伍代董事長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["陳委員素月：部長早。因為今天委員會安排的這個議題，就是有關鐵路運營安全事件的檢討，所以本席還是針對臺鐵的營運安全，跟部長還有伍代理董事長進行討論。雖然這都已經是老生常談了，可是我不曉得是不是真的好像談到都麻痺了，我覺得這真的是一個很嚴重的問題。我們看到從去（2024）年12月19號潮州基地發生了新型自強號在檢修的時候撞上止衝擋，一直到今年4月20號，即這個月還發生了進行聯掛作業的時候未停車撞上新自強號。這樣短短不到五個月的時間就發生了7件調車事故，而且這些調車事故都是人為因素。我們再來看一下，一樣，今年1月5號司機員錯認位置，所以導致最後一車沒有進月台，一直到也是這個月份的4月24號，四個月內就發生了7件停車不當事件，這幾件當中還有過站不停3件，而停車不當事件也是人為因素所造成。部長覺得狀況嚴不嚴重？"],["陳部長世凱：就數據上來看，我認為是嚴重的，而且一般民眾也會有不安的感覺，所以這個部分我們要趕快來改善，並且要趕快來做改革的行為。"],["陳委員素月：這樣的事故頻繁，是不是真的好像讓臺鐵的人都覺得見怪不怪了？好像都麻痺了？"],["陳部長世凱：這就是我們擔心的，就是員工、同仁有沒有照SOP進行的這件事，我們接下來會強烈要求，並且對於沒有照SOP執行工作，會做比較嚴厲的懲處，這是一方面。二方面是整體的改革方案，我也已經拜託臺鐵公司在準備，包含號誌的安全要怎麼樣加強，以及針對駕駛員的紀律約束，該怎麼加強，這個部分我們目前整包都在討論，我們希望趕快做改革的期程。"],["陳委員素月：是，我們回想臺鐵可以在前年加速公司化，也是因為臺鐵發生了重大事故之後，在社會的期待跟壓力之下，所以才加速了公司化。當初在公司化的時候，臺鐵自己喊的口號也是臺鐵改革從安全開始，我們加速臺鐵公司化也是希望臺鐵在安全能夠強化並增加民眾的信心，可是超過一年的時間，我們真的喪失信心了，到底要怎樣來落實改革？對於剛剛部長講的，我覺得應該還要再去思考，到底是什麼原因造成司機或者是調度員的人為事故疏失？因為懲處不是唯一的辦法，要了解是什麼原因造成他們發生這樣的疏失，是壓力過大，還是勞力不均等等所造成的結果。我覺得應該從源頭找出原因之後去調整，不然的話，如果一味的說要加強懲處，可能又造成他們更大的壓力了。"],["陳部長世凱：懲處是最後，其實前面該加強的是什麼？是員工的教育訓練、做事情要照SOP。"],["陳委員素月：對，教育訓練很重要。"],["陳部長世凱：目前就每一個案件看起來，很多都是因為員工並沒有照該規定的SOP下去做，所以我們要要求他們必須要照SOP下去做，懲處是最後，如果你真的沒有照SOP，我只好懲處你。前面除了SOP的教育訓練之外，我們也會加強在駕駛員的訓練之外，就是針對駕駛員，因為運安會其實在五、六年前也有要求過，希望在駕駛室裡面有影音的安全輔助系統，我們也在今年度一定會來推進這個進程，一定要做到運安會對我們的要求，這個部分我們一定要做到。目前臺鐵正在研擬整體的改革方案，不只是駕駛室，也不只是教育訓練，或者是SOP的執行跟落實。另外，針對硬體部分的改革，我們目前也正在進行當中。"],["陳委員素月：是，我也有看到新聞報導，就是有關月臺安全門的加強……"],["陳部長世凱：這個也會做。"],["陳委員素月：也都在做。剛剛部長講到SOP要落實，目前有關安全營運各個面向的安全SOP都確實有定好了嗎？有定好這樣的SOP嗎？都有？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，其實SOP一直都有……"],["陳委員素月：都有。"],["陳部長世凱：現在的問題在於我們的同仁……"],["陳委員素月：有沒有落實。"],["陳部長世凱：沒有依照SOP的規定下去做，這個部分我們要檢討。"],["陳委員素月：沒有按照規定去做？"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["陳委員素月：那有沒有去瞭解為什麼沒有按照規定去做？這個是不是要先去找出原因？不然高層、營運的層級定了SOP，結果基層做不到，是做不到，還是不會做？要去瞭解原因。"],["伍代理董事長勝園：是，我跟委員報告，剛剛提到的SOP真的都是有，確實都有……"],["陳委員素月：有，還是事故頻傳。"],["伍代理董事長勝園：我以4月20號這個案件來講，運安會大概現在也介入要調查了，其實初步我們內部有先瞭解過，4月20號那個本來是要連結，應該要一度停車，但是他沒有依照SOP一度停車，我們有訪談他去瞭解到底怎麼回事，他給我們的答案是他就恍神了。"],["陳委員素月：恍神是因為睡眠不足，還是壓力太大？"],["伍代理董事長勝園：倒不是……對，他就講大概是因為家裡的因素造成他的恍神，不過後面我們還是會配合運安會詳加確認。剛剛部長提到SOP我們已經跟他講就是在這裡，如果有問題應該要提出來，如果跟你講，你還不這樣做的話，如果再出事，我們真的就是一定要嚴懲，我覺得最後的手段應該要拿出來……"],["陳委員素月：當然，這是最後的手段。"],["伍代理董事長勝園：不然就變成大家無感了。"],["陳委員素月：對，當然，懲處是最後手段，本席要強調的是，要去瞭解原因，從源頭去解決。對於員工的心理輔導或者家庭因素可能也要多加關心，才會避免這樣的狀況發生。"],["伍代理董事長勝園：是，應該的。"],["陳委員素月：另外，臺鐵公司化之後也要靠多元的經營，希望能夠轉虧為盈。我們看到目前臺鐵推出的觀光列車頗受好評，收益應該不錯，伍代理董事長，您的瞭解？"],["伍代理董事長勝園：這幾個列車都很搶手，確實都很搶手。"],["陳委員素月：很搶手，好。本席在這邊是不是可以建議臺鐵規劃一下，每年春天3月份左右二水站鐵軌沿線花旗木盛開的時候，可以媲美日本的景色，非常地漂亮，也吸引了很多遊客，所以是不是可以規劃明年山嵐號行駛停靠二水火車站？"],["伍代理董事長勝園：跟委員報告，剛剛提到的觀光列車有些有行駛區域性的關係，環島之星大概二水這邊沒有問題，以剛剛委員提到的山嵐號部分，據瞭解目前我們現在委外的廠商已經將行程排到今年的10月了。"],["陳委員素月：今年？"],["伍代理董事長勝園：今年的10月都已經排定了。"],["陳委員素月：那明年還沒排嘛。"],["伍代理董事長勝園：所以這個部分我們再來跟他們協商，看看是不是能把這個部分放進來，我們再跟廠商協調。"],["陳委員素月：我想應該還可以去……因為還有時間，排到10月而已，花季是明年3月。"],["伍代理董事長勝園：我們來努力，我們儘量跟他們協調。"],["陳委員素月：我們也希望結合這樣的亮點來推銷在地的觀光，因為這個也是要互相結合的。"],["伍代理董事長勝園：是。"],["陳委員素月：謝謝部長、謝謝伍代理董事長。"],["伍代理董事長勝園：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳素月委員。特別報告，廖先翔委員質詢完畢休息10分鐘。","現在請廖先翔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":462,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-9","speakers":["林國成","洪孟楷","李昆澤","傅崐萁","陳雪生","何欣純","廖先翔","蔡其昌","吳宗憲","陳素月","林俊憲","徐富癸","魯明哲","許智傑","王義川","鍾佳濱","張啓楷","邱若華","邱志偉","黃建賓","王美惠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李柏毅","游顥","陳冠廷","徐欣瑩","蔡易餘","林德福","黃健豪","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":373,"meetingDate":["2025-04-30"],"gazette_id":"1144301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144301_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部民用航空局局長何淑萍、交通部鐵道局局長楊正君、國營臺灣鐵\n路股份有限公司代理董事長伍勝園、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長鄭光遠、中華航空股份有\n限公司董事長高星潢及國家運輸安全調查委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「近期我國航空、鐵路運\n營安全事件之檢討與改善及臺鐵票價調整方案」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144301_00008"}}}