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{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 607.553, \"end\": 607.673, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 607.673, \"end\": 607.693, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 607.693, \"end\": 607.773, \"score\": 0.08}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 607.773, \"end\": 607.793, \"score\": 0.012}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 607.793, \"end\": 607.933, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 607.933, \"end\": 607.953, \"score\": 0.009}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 607.953, \"end\": 607.973, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,072 --> 00:00:15,907\n好謝謝主席喔麻煩邀請我們陳部長好交通部陳部長我們這個吳次長代理董事長然後我們預案會林主委吳代董事長還有林主委\n\n2\n00:00:28,098 --> 00:00:41,727\n上次運安會的主委來的時候大概有提到一些這個運安報告的缺失的檢討然後那包括這個無論是這個一年就是所有列管案件最多的是我們的\n\n3\n00:00:43,208 --> 00:00:59,266\n這個港務局港務相關的那另外一部分三年以上的最多的也是我們的台鐵公司就是列管的缺失的案件那都是在部長的麾下那既然有這麼多的改善的缺失缺失要改善那都在部長這邊\n\n4\n00:01:00,447 --> 00:01:29,306\n沒有辦法改善就是說可能包括台鐵的三年內有五件嘛超過三年列管超過三年的那這部分喔只有兩個可能嘛第一個就是我們慾安會提出的報告這個業務機關自愛難行那第二個那就是業務機關面對慾安會的一個檢討報告他們執行不力啦那部長大概這個針對我們先講針對台鐵的啦超過三年的的部分有五件你們實際上遇到的困難大概是怎麼樣\n\n5\n00:01:30,897 --> 00:01:50,462\n報告委員是運安會的問題還是執行業務的部分運安會的要求我目前為止並沒有聽到部內所屬機關說有所以運安會的檢討都是合理的目前的檢討的狀況其實我知道每一個案子都在進行當中有一些確實還沒有完成那沒有完成有個別的原因每個案子不一樣每個案子不一樣所以有五件因為有一些我看\n\n6\n00:01:51,162 --> 00:02:15,317\n有五件目前還在列管當中那可能兩件跟第三代CDC的採購有關那有的跟新車來組織的調整有關或者是耗資系統的檢測等等那沒關係我們今天就具體的針對這五項已經列管超過三年的缺失部長在這邊能不能具體的承諾這五項缺失可以在多久的時間內完成改善台鐵這邊有沒有辦法針對這個問題\n\n7\n00:02:19,811 --> 00:02:42,357\n剛提到應安會的建議其實從109到113年他總共大概有建議的114個分項台鐵的部分其實已經完成了99個分項還剩下11個分項那11個分項我們後面大概目前這樣規劃剛提到應安會的部分他的要求是這樣你如果說有涉及到所謂硬體的部分你硬體必須\n\n8\n00:02:43,717 --> 00:03:11,157\n發包以後你才可以解除那如果是軟體的部分你必須要完成之後看到成效覺得還不錯他才會解除裂管所以他們的裂管其實是非常的嚴謹那剛剛提到包括CDC這些的問題我想我們剩下11個分項我們會在今年我們會再完成4個分項今年完成4個分項那明年可以再分成再兩個分項把它完成\n\n9\n00:03:11,550 --> 00:03:28,280\n那後面當然CTC的部分我們這個部分應該會在今年我們就來發包CTC今年就能夠啊第三代CTC今年就完成發包所以你剛剛再重複一遍總共11個分項嘛那有5個分項是列管超過3年嘛對不對那今年完成\n\n10\n00:03:29,212 --> 00:03:50,492\n今年完成四項那115我們會完成兩項那還有剩下的五項是哪部分的問題會導致我們可能還需要更多的時間來調整就剛剛講了有些是我們整個制度上的問題那些可能要稍微晚一點我想這個設計的部分我們會盡早的把它完成我們現在這個部分大概都有列管來做啦\n\n11\n00:03:51,653 --> 00:04:10,354\n像剛剛講的那個影音設備部分其實剛剛部長也特別講了我們是一定要往前走因為像我們預案會剛剛那個市長也有說就是提出來的並不是說硬體採購完成了才叫做解列嘛而是說發包了之後這個他們知道你們已經在做了之後就他們就也沒有說一定要看到結束嘛對不對那\n\n12\n00:04:11,195 --> 00:04:22,004\n那針對這個次長剛才說的這個一年內四項嘛明年兩項那部長你能不能針對11項你的目標你的目標11項要在幾年內讓運安會完成解列\n\n13\n00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:45,666\n報告委員我們希望在116年以前全部都可以完成好116年底116年116年底之前運安會的這11項的列管的缺失我們都可以再完成解除列管對沒錯好那謝謝好那另外這個部長跟您也算是這個\n\n14\n00:04:48,100 --> 00:05:10,584\n那個台鐵可能台鐵公司留下來那我們高鐵也麻煩一下就是我最近我最近這個有在大家都有在看我們的影集那Netflix最近有一個影集叫做新幹線驚爆倒數我不知道部長有沒有看過我前兩天才看你有看嗎有看好那我們可以聊一下那包括柯南這柯南的電影之前也有一個這個什麼這個列車炸彈的一些相關的議題其實大家都說現實生活有時候總是比電影來的來的\n\n15\n00:05:17,866 --> 00:05:32,175\n來的這個更為讓人家覺得這個就是更為誇張啦就是電影情節現實生活常常會比電影情節更為誇張那你也知道這個可能這兩部電影裡面的情節就是說在列車上面裝炸彈\n\n16\n00:05:34,396 --> 00:05:50,368\n要求列車要在100公里以上的速度才不會爆炸假設我們今天交通部或是鐵道公司或是高鐵也接收到類似的警告說我們從南港站發車的列車到左營\n\n17\n00:05:53,493 --> 00:06:05,482\n他的速度不能夠低於時速100公里那否則他會被爆炸那當然他也提出一些儲金的要求那我們交通部或是鐵道公司高鐵公司會做怎樣的一個相對應\n\n18\n00:06:06,961 --> 00:06:29,213\n報告委員這個算是關鍵基礎設施啦所以他的安全性的問題其實也牽涉到整個國安系統大家也都很關心那針對如果是有類似啦電影情節裡面第一個原則性的問題會不會跟恐怖份子做交涉我們國家的制度會跟恐怖份子做交涉嗎\n\n19\n00:06:31,054 --> 00:06:55,855\n這個要由國安單位去做判斷我們有一個國家安全辦公室當發生這樣的事情我們會馬上通報國家安全辦公室由他們來做判斷這不是由交通部這邊能夠做判斷所以你們不會決定說要不要交涉那假設要營救啦就是不交涉的情況下那接下來就是營救嘛那我們會怎樣的來不只我們交通部啦會怎樣跨機關的來做一些經濟處置\n\n20\n00:06:58,403 --> 00:07:13,195\n緊急處置這個我們有演練過嗎我們最近是我們的台鐵相關的一些演練也都有針對恐怖攻擊來做一個演練那國安辦公室也會來參與那有沒有辦法講具體一點\n\n21\n00:07:14,876 --> 00:07:44,076\n對我們有這樣的一個劇本劇本那像在國家安全辦公室也會指導我們就是怎麼樣來針對如果有一些恐怖事件發生的時候我們來做一個演練他們有一個演練的劇本那這個部分其實您有看過影片所以大概您也會好奇說他大概劇本怎麼樣然後怎麼因應我在想這個是不是會後有我們再把資料給我們這個鐵案演習的相關劇本其實甚至因為他已經被拍成電影了那有時候大家都知道會有一個模仿效應\n\n22\n00:07:45,297 --> 00:08:00,410\n這種東西也是有可能發生包括我們2021年的時候我們也曾經發生過就是有這個通報在台鐵上面裝炸彈那當然最後發現是虛驚異常那假設它是真的呢那電影已經演了這麼多那這件事情聽起來也不是說\n\n23\n00:08:01,451 --> 00:08:23,616\n做不到的事情聽起來不是做不到的事情那我希望說交通部門也能夠做一些最基本的譬如說我剛剛講連看電影的人都會知道說我們要先做的就是維持這個幹線上面的一個疏通嘛你們必須要緊急調度把所有的其他所有的班次都暫停嘛把所有的列車排除在我們的這個幹線上面然後後續才能做一些營救的工作嘛\n\n24\n00:08:26,374 --> 00:08:50,739\n是沒有錯其實除了台鐵高鐵其實也都有一些因應的模式所以跟委員報告其實我們這個跟國安單位都有一個很好的一個聯繫因為這個時候第一個我們就是會通報這個國安系統那國安系統的話整下來的話我們在我們這邊的話鐵路警察是第一線跟我們一起在合作的所以我們平常也有去針對這些做一些這種資訊的這種聯繫然後怎麼樣應盡的話其實是我們也有\n\n25\n00:08:55,320 --> 00:09:09,725\n類似的一些砂盤的推演來做但不過像剛才這種情況的話我們也可以繼續的來跟這個國安單位來跟他研究然後我們怎麼來做那實務上在電影裡面出現的他可能有一些營救方式比如說把這個車廂去把它拆解然後再用其他的車廂追上這台列車去把旅客輸運這樣實務上我們做不做得到\n\n26\n00:09:21,889 --> 00:09:45,239\n電影裡面的情節跟實務上我們列車這是不太可能啦不太可能但是我們如果知道他是放在哪一個車廂的話那我們當然會把前後三個車廂的客人全部都往外挪往其他的車廂挪移這樣所以電影新幹線的情節在實務上比較屬於電影裡面的想像\n\n27\n00:09:46,305 --> 00:10:07,973\n好那沒關係那後續啦部長我們就是針對這樣子類似一個恐怖攻擊的一個議題那如果說後續要怎麼來營救我們的旅客好不好希望能夠做一個檢討跟預演演練我不是說實際上演練而是說我們必須要在行政上面去做一些至少要沙盤推演沙盤推演然後再提供一些資料給我們以上好不好謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6072\t15907\t好 謝謝主席喔 麻煩邀請我們陳部長好 交通部陳部長我們這個吳次長 代理董事長然後我們預案會林主委吳代董事長 還有林主委\n28098\t41727\t上次運安會的主委來的時候大概有提到一些這個運安報告的缺失的檢討然後那包括這個無論是這個一年就是所有列管案件最多的是我們的\n43208\t59266\t這個港務局 港務相關的那另外一部分三年以上的最多的也是我們的台鐵公司就是列管的缺失的案件那都是在部長的麾下那既然有這麼多的改善的缺失缺失要改善那都在部長這邊\n60447\t89306\t沒有辦法改善 就是說可能包括台鐵的三年內有五件嘛 超過三年 列管超過三年的那這部分喔 只有兩個可能嘛第一個 就是我們慾安會提出的報告這個業務機關自愛難行那第二個 那就是業務機關面對慾安會的一個檢討報告 他們執行不力啦那部長大概 這個針對 我們先講針對台鐵的啦超過三年的的部分 有五件你們實際上遇到的困難大概是怎麼樣\n90897\t110462\t報告委員是運安會的問題還是執行業務的部分運安會的要求我目前為止並沒有聽到部內所屬機關說有所以運安會的檢討都是合理的目前的檢討的狀況其實我知道每一個案子都在進行當中有一些確實還沒有完成那沒有完成有個別的原因每個案子不一樣每個案子不一樣所以有五件因為有一些我看\n111162\t135317\t有五件目前還在列管當中那可能兩件跟第三代CDC的採購有關那有的跟新車來組織的調整有關或者是耗資系統的檢測等等那沒關係我們今天就具體的針對這五項已經列管超過三年的缺失部長在這邊能不能具體的承諾這五項缺失可以在多久的時間內完成改善台鐵這邊有沒有辦法針對這個問題\n139811\t162357\t剛提到應安會的建議其實從109到113年他總共大概有建議的114個分項台鐵的部分其實已經完成了99個分項還剩下11個分項那11個分項我們後面大概目前這樣規劃剛提到應安會的部分他的要求是這樣你如果說有涉及到所謂硬體的部分你硬體必須\n163717\t191157\t發包以後你才可以解除那如果是軟體的部分你必須要完成之後看到成效覺得還不錯他才會解除裂管所以他們的裂管其實是非常的嚴謹那剛剛提到包括CDC這些的問題我想我們剩下11個分項我們會在今年我們會再完成4個分項今年完成4個分項那明年可以再分成再兩個分項把它完成\n191550\t208280\t那後面當然CTC的部分我們這個部分應該會在今年我們就來發包CTC今年就能夠啊第三代CTC今年就完成發包所以你剛剛 再重複一遍總共11個分項嘛那有5個分項是列管超過3年嘛對不對那今年完成\n209212\t230492\t今年完成四項那115我們會完成兩項那還有剩下的五項是哪部分的問題會導致我們可能還需要更多的時間來調整就剛剛講了有些是我們整個制度上的問題那些可能要稍微晚一點我想這個設計的部分我們會盡早的把它完成我們現在這個部分大概都有列管來做啦\n231653\t250354\t像剛剛講的那個影音設備部分其實剛剛部長也特別講了我們是一定要往前走因為像我們預案會剛剛那個市長也有說就是提出來的並不是說硬體採購完成了才叫做解列嘛而是說發包了之後這個他們知道你們已經在做了之後就他們就也沒有說一定要看到結束嘛對不對那\n251195\t262004\t那針對這個次長剛才說的這個一年內四項嘛明年兩項那部長你能不能針對11項你的目標你的目標11項要在幾年內讓運安會完成解列\n266360\t285666\t報告委員我們希望在116年以前全部都可以完成好116年底116年116年底之前運安會的這11項的列管的缺失我們都可以再完成解除列管對沒錯好那謝謝好那另外這個部長跟您也算是這個\n288100\t310584\t那個台鐵可能台鐵公司留下來那我們高鐵也麻煩一下就是我最近我最近這個有在大家都有在看我們的影集那Netflix最近有一個影集叫做新幹線驚爆倒數我不知道部長有沒有看過我前兩天才看你有看嗎有看好那我們可以聊一下那包括柯南這柯南的電影之前也有一個這個什麼這個列車炸彈的一些相關的議題其實大家都說現實生活有時候總是比電影來的來的\n317866\t332175\t來的這個更為讓人家覺得這個就是更為誇張啦就是電影情節現實生活常常會比電影情節更為誇張那你也知道這個可能這兩部電影裡面的情節就是說在列車上面裝炸彈\n334396\t350368\t要求列車要在100公里以上的速度才不會爆炸假設我們今天交通部或是鐵道公司或是高鐵也接收到類似的警告說我們從南港站發車的列車到左營\n353493\t365482\t他的速度不能夠低於 時速100公里那否則他會被爆炸 那當然他也提出一些儲金的要求那我們交通部或是鐵道公司 高鐵公司會做怎樣的一個相對應\n366961\t389213\t報告委員 這個算是關鍵基礎設施啦所以他的安全性的問題其實也牽涉到整個國安系統 大家也都很關心那針對 如果是有類似啦 電影情節裡面第一個原則性的問題 會不會跟恐怖份子做交涉我們國家的制度會跟恐怖份子做交涉嗎\n391054\t415855\t這個要由國安單位去做判斷我們有一個國家安全辦公室當發生這樣的事情我們會馬上通報國家安全辦公室由他們來做判斷這不是由交通部這邊能夠做判斷所以你們不會決定說要不要交涉那假設要營救啦就是不交涉的情況下那接下來就是營救嘛那我們會怎樣的來不只我們交通部啦會怎樣跨機關的來做一些經濟處置\n418403\t433195\t緊急處置這個我們有演練過嗎我們最近是我們的台鐵相關的一些演練也都有針對恐怖攻擊來做一個演練那國安辦公室也會來參與那有沒有辦法講具體一點\n434876\t464076\t對我們有這樣的一個劇本劇本那像在國家安全辦公室也會指導我們就是怎麼樣來針對如果有一些恐怖事件發生的時候我們來做一個演練他們有一個演練的劇本那這個部分其實您有看過影片所以大概您也會好奇說他大概劇本怎麼樣然後怎麼因應我在想這個是不是會後有我們再把資料給我們這個鐵案演習的相關劇本其實甚至因為他已經被拍成電影了那有時候大家都知道會有一個模仿效應\n465297\t480410\t這種東西也是有可能發生包括我們2021年的時候我們也曾經發生過就是有這個通報在台鐵上面裝炸彈那當然最後發現是虛驚異常那假設它是真的呢那電影已經演了這麼多那這件事情聽起來也不是說\n481451\t503616\t做不到的事情 聽起來不是做不到的事情 那我希望說交通部門也能夠做一些最基本的 譬如說我剛剛講 連看電影的人都會知道說我們要先做的就是維持這個幹線上面的一個疏通嘛你們必須要緊急調度把所有的其他 所有的班次都暫停嘛把所有的列車排除在我們的這個幹線上面 然後後續才能做一些營救的工作嘛\n506374\t530739\t是沒有錯其實除了台鐵高鐵其實也都有一些因應的模式所以跟委員報告其實我們這個跟國安單位都有一個很好的一個聯繫因為這個時候第一個我們就是會通報這個國安系統那國安系統的話整下來的話我們在我們這邊的話鐵路警察是第一線跟我們一起在合作的所以我們平常也有去針對這些做一些這種資訊的這種聯繫然後怎麼樣應盡的話其實是我們也有\n535320\t549725\t類似的一些砂盤的推演來做但不過像剛才這種情況的話我們也可以繼續的來跟這個國安單位來跟他研究然後我們怎麼來做那實務上在電影裡面出現的他可能有一些營救方式比如說把這個車廂去把它拆解然後再用其他的車廂追上這台列車去把旅客輸運這樣實務上我們做不做得到\n561889\t585239\t電影裡面的情節跟實務上我們列車這是不太可能啦不太可能但是我們如果知道他是放在哪一個車廂的話那我們當然會把前後三個車廂的客人全部都往外挪往其他的車廂挪移這樣所以電影新幹線的情節在實務上比較屬於電影裡面的想像\n586305\t607973\t好 那沒關係 那後續啦 部長我們就是針對這樣子類似一個恐怖攻擊的一個議題那如果說後續要怎麼來營救我們的旅客好不好 希望能夠做一個檢討跟預演 演練我不是說實際上演練 而是說我們必須要在行政上面去做一些至少要沙盤推演沙盤推演 然後再提供一些資料給我們 以上 好不好 謝謝部長\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席喔 麻煩邀請我們陳部長好 交通部陳部長我們這個吳次長 代理董事長然後我們預案會林主委吳代董事長 還有林主委\n上次運安會的主委來的時候大概有提到一些這個運安報告的缺失的檢討然後那包括這個無論是這個一年就是所有列管案件最多的是我們的\n這個港務局 港務相關的那另外一部分三年以上的最多的也是我們的台鐵公司就是列管的缺失的案件那都是在部長的麾下那既然有這麼多的改善的缺失缺失要改善那都在部長這邊\n沒有辦法改善 就是說可能包括台鐵的三年內有五件嘛 超過三年 列管超過三年的那這部分喔 只有兩個可能嘛第一個 就是我們慾安會提出的報告這個業務機關自愛難行那第二個 那就是業務機關面對慾安會的一個檢討報告 他們執行不力啦那部長大概 這個針對 我們先講針對台鐵的啦超過三年的的部分 有五件你們實際上遇到的困難大概是怎麼樣\n報告委員是運安會的問題還是執行業務的部分運安會的要求我目前為止並沒有聽到部內所屬機關說有所以運安會的檢討都是合理的目前的檢討的狀況其實我知道每一個案子都在進行當中有一些確實還沒有完成那沒有完成有個別的原因每個案子不一樣每個案子不一樣所以有五件因為有一些我看\n有五件目前還在列管當中那可能兩件跟第三代CDC的採購有關那有的跟新車來組織的調整有關或者是耗資系統的檢測等等那沒關係我們今天就具體的針對這五項已經列管超過三年的缺失部長在這邊能不能具體的承諾這五項缺失可以在多久的時間內完成改善台鐵這邊有沒有辦法針對這個問題\n剛提到應安會的建議其實從109到113年他總共大概有建議的114個分項台鐵的部分其實已經完成了99個分項還剩下11個分項那11個分項我們後面大概目前這樣規劃剛提到應安會的部分他的要求是這樣你如果說有涉及到所謂硬體的部分你硬體必須\n發包以後你才可以解除那如果是軟體的部分你必須要完成之後看到成效覺得還不錯他才會解除裂管所以他們的裂管其實是非常的嚴謹那剛剛提到包括CDC這些的問題我想我們剩下11個分項我們會在今年我們會再完成4個分項今年完成4個分項那明年可以再分成再兩個分項把它完成\n那後面當然CTC的部分我們這個部分應該會在今年我們就來發包CTC今年就能夠啊第三代CTC今年就完成發包所以你剛剛 再重複一遍總共11個分項嘛那有5個分項是列管超過3年嘛對不對那今年完成\n今年完成四項那115我們會完成兩項那還有剩下的五項是哪部分的問題會導致我們可能還需要更多的時間來調整就剛剛講了有些是我們整個制度上的問題那些可能要稍微晚一點我想這個設計的部分我們會盡早的把它完成我們現在這個部分大概都有列管來做啦\n像剛剛講的那個影音設備部分其實剛剛部長也特別講了我們是一定要往前走因為像我們預案會剛剛那個市長也有說就是提出來的並不是說硬體採購完成了才叫做解列嘛而是說發包了之後這個他們知道你們已經在做了之後就他們就也沒有說一定要看到結束嘛對不對那\n那針對這個次長剛才說的這個一年內四項嘛明年兩項那部長你能不能針對11項你的目標你的目標11項要在幾年內讓運安會完成解列\n報告委員我們希望在116年以前全部都可以完成好116年底116年116年底之前運安會的這11項的列管的缺失我們都可以再完成解除列管對沒錯好那謝謝好那另外這個部長跟您也算是這個\n那個台鐵可能台鐵公司留下來那我們高鐵也麻煩一下就是我最近我最近這個有在大家都有在看我們的影集那Netflix最近有一個影集叫做新幹線驚爆倒數我不知道部長有沒有看過我前兩天才看你有看嗎有看好那我們可以聊一下那包括柯南這柯南的電影之前也有一個這個什麼這個列車炸彈的一些相關的議題其實大家都說現實生活有時候總是比電影來的來的\n來的這個更為讓人家覺得這個就是更為誇張啦就是電影情節現實生活常常會比電影情節更為誇張那你也知道這個可能這兩部電影裡面的情節就是說在列車上面裝炸彈\n要求列車要在100公里以上的速度才不會爆炸假設我們今天交通部或是鐵道公司或是高鐵也接收到類似的警告說我們從南港站發車的列車到左營\n他的速度不能夠低於 時速100公里那否則他會被爆炸 那當然他也提出一些儲金的要求那我們交通部或是鐵道公司 高鐵公司會做怎樣的一個相對應\n報告委員 這個算是關鍵基礎設施啦所以他的安全性的問題其實也牽涉到整個國安系統 大家也都很關心那針對 如果是有類似啦 電影情節裡面第一個原則性的問題 會不會跟恐怖份子做交涉我們國家的制度會跟恐怖份子做交涉嗎\n這個要由國安單位去做判斷我們有一個國家安全辦公室當發生這樣的事情我們會馬上通報國家安全辦公室由他們來做判斷這不是由交通部這邊能夠做判斷所以你們不會決定說要不要交涉那假設要營救啦就是不交涉的情況下那接下來就是營救嘛那我們會怎樣的來不只我們交通部啦會怎樣跨機關的來做一些經濟處置\n緊急處置這個我們有演練過嗎我們最近是我們的台鐵相關的一些演練也都有針對恐怖攻擊來做一個演練那國安辦公室也會來參與那有沒有辦法講具體一點\n對我們有這樣的一個劇本劇本那像在國家安全辦公室也會指導我們就是怎麼樣來針對如果有一些恐怖事件發生的時候我們來做一個演練他們有一個演練的劇本那這個部分其實您有看過影片所以大概您也會好奇說他大概劇本怎麼樣然後怎麼因應我在想這個是不是會後有我們再把資料給我們這個鐵案演習的相關劇本其實甚至因為他已經被拍成電影了那有時候大家都知道會有一個模仿效應\n這種東西也是有可能發生包括我們2021年的時候我們也曾經發生過就是有這個通報在台鐵上面裝炸彈那當然最後發現是虛驚異常那假設它是真的呢那電影已經演了這麼多那這件事情聽起來也不是說\n做不到的事情 聽起來不是做不到的事情 那我希望說交通部門也能夠做一些最基本的 譬如說我剛剛講 連看電影的人都會知道說我們要先做的就是維持這個幹線上面的一個疏通嘛你們必須要緊急調度把所有的其他 所有的班次都暫停嘛把所有的列車排除在我們的這個幹線上面 然後後續才能做一些營救的工作嘛\n是沒有錯其實除了台鐵高鐵其實也都有一些因應的模式所以跟委員報告其實我們這個跟國安單位都有一個很好的一個聯繫因為這個時候第一個我們就是會通報這個國安系統那國安系統的話整下來的話我們在我們這邊的話鐵路警察是第一線跟我們一起在合作的所以我們平常也有去針對這些做一些這種資訊的這種聯繫然後怎麼樣應盡的話其實是我們也有\n類似的一些砂盤的推演來做但不過像剛才這種情況的話我們也可以繼續的來跟這個國安單位來跟他研究然後我們怎麼來做那實務上在電影裡面出現的他可能有一些營救方式比如說把這個車廂去把它拆解然後再用其他的車廂追上這台列車去把旅客輸運這樣實務上我們做不做得到\n電影裡面的情節跟實務上我們列車這是不太可能啦不太可能但是我們如果知道他是放在哪一個車廂的話那我們當然會把前後三個車廂的客人全部都往外挪往其他的車廂挪移這樣所以電影新幹線的情節在實務上比較屬於電影裡面的想像\n好 那沒關係 那後續啦 部長我們就是針對這樣子類似一個恐怖攻擊的一個議題那如果說後續要怎麼來營救我們的旅客好不好 希望能夠做一個檢討跟預演 演練我不是說實際上演練 而是說我們必須要在行政上面去做一些至少要沙盤推演沙盤推演 然後再提供一些資料給我們 以上 好不好 謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.072 --> 00:15.907\n好謝謝主席喔麻煩邀請我們陳部長好交通部陳部長我們這個吳次長代理董事長然後我們預案會林主委吳代董事長還有林主委\n\n00:28.098 --> 00:41.727\n上次運安會的主委來的時候大概有提到一些這個運安報告的缺失的檢討然後那包括這個無論是這個一年就是所有列管案件最多的是我們的\n\n00:43.208 --> 00:59.266\n這個港務局港務相關的那另外一部分三年以上的最多的也是我們的台鐵公司就是列管的缺失的案件那都是在部長的麾下那既然有這麼多的改善的缺失缺失要改善那都在部長這邊\n\n01:00.447 --> 01:29.306\n沒有辦法改善就是說可能包括台鐵的三年內有五件嘛超過三年列管超過三年的那這部分喔只有兩個可能嘛第一個就是我們慾安會提出的報告這個業務機關自愛難行那第二個那就是業務機關面對慾安會的一個檢討報告他們執行不力啦那部長大概這個針對我們先講針對台鐵的啦超過三年的的部分有五件你們實際上遇到的困難大概是怎麼樣\n\n01:30.897 --> 01:50.462\n報告委員是運安會的問題還是執行業務的部分運安會的要求我目前為止並沒有聽到部內所屬機關說有所以運安會的檢討都是合理的目前的檢討的狀況其實我知道每一個案子都在進行當中有一些確實還沒有完成那沒有完成有個別的原因每個案子不一樣每個案子不一樣所以有五件因為有一些我看\n\n01:51.162 --> 02:15.317\n有五件目前還在列管當中那可能兩件跟第三代CDC的採購有關那有的跟新車來組織的調整有關或者是耗資系統的檢測等等那沒關係我們今天就具體的針對這五項已經列管超過三年的缺失部長在這邊能不能具體的承諾這五項缺失可以在多久的時間內完成改善台鐵這邊有沒有辦法針對這個問題\n\n02:19.811 --> 02:42.357\n剛提到應安會的建議其實從109到113年他總共大概有建議的114個分項台鐵的部分其實已經完成了99個分項還剩下11個分項那11個分項我們後面大概目前這樣規劃剛提到應安會的部分他的要求是這樣你如果說有涉及到所謂硬體的部分你硬體必須\n\n02:43.717 --> 03:11.157\n發包以後你才可以解除那如果是軟體的部分你必須要完成之後看到成效覺得還不錯他才會解除裂管所以他們的裂管其實是非常的嚴謹那剛剛提到包括CDC這些的問題我想我們剩下11個分項我們會在今年我們會再完成4個分項今年完成4個分項那明年可以再分成再兩個分項把它完成\n\n03:11.550 --> 03:28.280\n那後面當然CTC的部分我們這個部分應該會在今年我們就來發包CTC今年就能夠啊第三代CTC今年就完成發包所以你剛剛再重複一遍總共11個分項嘛那有5個分項是列管超過3年嘛對不對那今年完成\n\n03:29.212 --> 03:50.492\n今年完成四項那115我們會完成兩項那還有剩下的五項是哪部分的問題會導致我們可能還需要更多的時間來調整就剛剛講了有些是我們整個制度上的問題那些可能要稍微晚一點我想這個設計的部分我們會盡早的把它完成我們現在這個部分大概都有列管來做啦\n\n03:51.653 --> 04:10.354\n像剛剛講的那個影音設備部分其實剛剛部長也特別講了我們是一定要往前走因為像我們預案會剛剛那個市長也有說就是提出來的並不是說硬體採購完成了才叫做解列嘛而是說發包了之後這個他們知道你們已經在做了之後就他們就也沒有說一定要看到結束嘛對不對那\n\n04:11.195 --> 04:22.004\n那針對這個次長剛才說的這個一年內四項嘛明年兩項那部長你能不能針對11項你的目標你的目標11項要在幾年內讓運安會完成解列\n\n04:26.360 --> 04:45.666\n報告委員我們希望在116年以前全部都可以完成好116年底116年116年底之前運安會的這11項的列管的缺失我們都可以再完成解除列管對沒錯好那謝謝好那另外這個部長跟您也算是這個\n\n04:48.100 --> 05:10.584\n那個台鐵可能台鐵公司留下來那我們高鐵也麻煩一下就是我最近我最近這個有在大家都有在看我們的影集那Netflix最近有一個影集叫做新幹線驚爆倒數我不知道部長有沒有看過我前兩天才看你有看嗎有看好那我們可以聊一下那包括柯南這柯南的電影之前也有一個這個什麼這個列車炸彈的一些相關的議題其實大家都說現實生活有時候總是比電影來的來的\n\n05:17.866 --> 05:32.175\n來的這個更為讓人家覺得這個就是更為誇張啦就是電影情節現實生活常常會比電影情節更為誇張那你也知道這個可能這兩部電影裡面的情節就是說在列車上面裝炸彈\n\n05:34.396 --> 05:50.368\n要求列車要在100公里以上的速度才不會爆炸假設我們今天交通部或是鐵道公司或是高鐵也接收到類似的警告說我們從南港站發車的列車到左營\n\n05:53.493 --> 06:05.482\n他的速度不能夠低於時速100公里那否則他會被爆炸那當然他也提出一些儲金的要求那我們交通部或是鐵道公司高鐵公司會做怎樣的一個相對應\n\n06:06.961 --> 06:29.213\n報告委員這個算是關鍵基礎設施啦所以他的安全性的問題其實也牽涉到整個國安系統大家也都很關心那針對如果是有類似啦電影情節裡面第一個原則性的問題會不會跟恐怖份子做交涉我們國家的制度會跟恐怖份子做交涉嗎\n\n06:31.054 --> 06:55.855\n這個要由國安單位去做判斷我們有一個國家安全辦公室當發生這樣的事情我們會馬上通報國家安全辦公室由他們來做判斷這不是由交通部這邊能夠做判斷所以你們不會決定說要不要交涉那假設要營救啦就是不交涉的情況下那接下來就是營救嘛那我們會怎樣的來不只我們交通部啦會怎樣跨機關的來做一些經濟處置\n\n06:58.403 --> 07:13.195\n緊急處置這個我們有演練過嗎我們最近是我們的台鐵相關的一些演練也都有針對恐怖攻擊來做一個演練那國安辦公室也會來參與那有沒有辦法講具體一點\n\n07:14.876 --> 07:44.076\n對我們有這樣的一個劇本劇本那像在國家安全辦公室也會指導我們就是怎麼樣來針對如果有一些恐怖事件發生的時候我們來做一個演練他們有一個演練的劇本那這個部分其實您有看過影片所以大概您也會好奇說他大概劇本怎麼樣然後怎麼因應我在想這個是不是會後有我們再把資料給我們這個鐵案演習的相關劇本其實甚至因為他已經被拍成電影了那有時候大家都知道會有一個模仿效應\n\n07:45.297 --> 08:00.410\n這種東西也是有可能發生包括我們2021年的時候我們也曾經發生過就是有這個通報在台鐵上面裝炸彈那當然最後發現是虛驚異常那假設它是真的呢那電影已經演了這麼多那這件事情聽起來也不是說\n\n08:01.451 --> 08:23.616\n做不到的事情聽起來不是做不到的事情那我希望說交通部門也能夠做一些最基本的譬如說我剛剛講連看電影的人都會知道說我們要先做的就是維持這個幹線上面的一個疏通嘛你們必須要緊急調度把所有的其他所有的班次都暫停嘛把所有的列車排除在我們的這個幹線上面然後後續才能做一些營救的工作嘛\n\n08:26.374 --> 08:50.739\n是沒有錯其實除了台鐵高鐵其實也都有一些因應的模式所以跟委員報告其實我們這個跟國安單位都有一個很好的一個聯繫因為這個時候第一個我們就是會通報這個國安系統那國安系統的話整下來的話我們在我們這邊的話鐵路警察是第一線跟我們一起在合作的所以我們平常也有去針對這些做一些這種資訊的這種聯繫然後怎麼樣應盡的話其實是我們也有\n\n08:55.320 --> 09:09.725\n類似的一些砂盤的推演來做但不過像剛才這種情況的話我們也可以繼續的來跟這個國安單位來跟他研究然後我們怎麼來做那實務上在電影裡面出現的他可能有一些營救方式比如說把這個車廂去把它拆解然後再用其他的車廂追上這台列車去把旅客輸運這樣實務上我們做不做得到\n\n09:21.889 --> 09:45.239\n電影裡面的情節跟實務上我們列車這是不太可能啦不太可能但是我們如果知道他是放在哪一個車廂的話那我們當然會把前後三個車廂的客人全部都往外挪往其他的車廂挪移這樣所以電影新幹線的情節在實務上比較屬於電影裡面的想像\n\n09:46.305 --> 10:07.973\n好那沒關係那後續啦部長我們就是針對這樣子類似一個恐怖攻擊的一個議題那如果說後續要怎麼來營救我們的旅客好不好希望能夠做一個檢討跟預演演練我不是說實際上演練而是說我們必須要在行政上面去做一些至少要沙盤推演沙盤推演然後再提供一些資料給我們以上好不好謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.072,"end":15.907,"text":"好 謝謝主席喔 麻煩邀請我們陳部長好 交通部陳部長我們這個吳次長 代理董事長然後我們預案會林主委吳代董事長 還有林主委"},{"start":28.098,"end":41.727,"text":"上次運安會的主委來的時候大概有提到一些這個運安報告的缺失的檢討然後那包括這個無論是這個一年就是所有列管案件最多的是我們的"},{"start":43.208,"end":59.266,"text":"這個港務局 港務相關的那另外一部分三年以上的最多的也是我們的台鐵公司就是列管的缺失的案件那都是在部長的麾下那既然有這麼多的改善的缺失缺失要改善那都在部長這邊"},{"start":60.447,"end":89.306,"text":"沒有辦法改善 就是說可能包括台鐵的三年內有五件嘛 超過三年 列管超過三年的那這部分喔 只有兩個可能嘛第一個 就是我們慾安會提出的報告這個業務機關自愛難行那第二個 那就是業務機關面對慾安會的一個檢討報告 他們執行不力啦那部長大概 這個針對 我們先講針對台鐵的啦超過三年的的部分 有五件你們實際上遇到的困難大概是怎麼樣"},{"start":90.897,"end":110.462,"text":"報告委員是運安會的問題還是執行業務的部分運安會的要求我目前為止並沒有聽到部內所屬機關說有所以運安會的檢討都是合理的目前的檢討的狀況其實我知道每一個案子都在進行當中有一些確實還沒有完成那沒有完成有個別的原因每個案子不一樣每個案子不一樣所以有五件因為有一些我看"},{"start":111.162,"end":135.317,"text":"有五件目前還在列管當中那可能兩件跟第三代CDC的採購有關那有的跟新車來組織的調整有關或者是耗資系統的檢測等等那沒關係我們今天就具體的針對這五項已經列管超過三年的缺失部長在這邊能不能具體的承諾這五項缺失可以在多久的時間內完成改善台鐵這邊有沒有辦法針對這個問題"},{"start":139.811,"end":162.357,"text":"剛提到應安會的建議其實從109到113年他總共大概有建議的114個分項台鐵的部分其實已經完成了99個分項還剩下11個分項那11個分項我們後面大概目前這樣規劃剛提到應安會的部分他的要求是這樣你如果說有涉及到所謂硬體的部分你硬體必須"},{"start":163.717,"end":191.157,"text":"發包以後你才可以解除那如果是軟體的部分你必須要完成之後看到成效覺得還不錯他才會解除裂管所以他們的裂管其實是非常的嚴謹那剛剛提到包括CDC這些的問題我想我們剩下11個分項我們會在今年我們會再完成4個分項今年完成4個分項那明年可以再分成再兩個分項把它完成"},{"start":191.55,"end":208.28,"text":"那後面當然CTC的部分我們這個部分應該會在今年我們就來發包CTC今年就能夠啊第三代CTC今年就完成發包所以你剛剛 再重複一遍總共11個分項嘛那有5個分項是列管超過3年嘛對不對那今年完成"},{"start":209.212,"end":230.492,"text":"今年完成四項那115我們會完成兩項那還有剩下的五項是哪部分的問題會導致我們可能還需要更多的時間來調整就剛剛講了有些是我們整個制度上的問題那些可能要稍微晚一點我想這個設計的部分我們會盡早的把它完成我們現在這個部分大概都有列管來做啦"},{"start":231.653,"end":250.354,"text":"像剛剛講的那個影音設備部分其實剛剛部長也特別講了我們是一定要往前走因為像我們預案會剛剛那個市長也有說就是提出來的並不是說硬體採購完成了才叫做解列嘛而是說發包了之後這個他們知道你們已經在做了之後就他們就也沒有說一定要看到結束嘛對不對那"},{"start":251.195,"end":262.004,"text":"那針對這個次長剛才說的這個一年內四項嘛明年兩項那部長你能不能針對11項你的目標你的目標11項要在幾年內讓運安會完成解列"},{"start":266.36,"end":285.666,"text":"報告委員我們希望在116年以前全部都可以完成好116年底116年116年底之前運安會的這11項的列管的缺失我們都可以再完成解除列管對沒錯好那謝謝好那另外這個部長跟您也算是這個"},{"start":288.1,"end":310.584,"text":"那個台鐵可能台鐵公司留下來那我們高鐵也麻煩一下就是我最近我最近這個有在大家都有在看我們的影集那Netflix最近有一個影集叫做新幹線驚爆倒數我不知道部長有沒有看過我前兩天才看你有看嗎有看好那我們可以聊一下那包括柯南這柯南的電影之前也有一個這個什麼這個列車炸彈的一些相關的議題其實大家都說現實生活有時候總是比電影來的來的"},{"start":317.866,"end":332.175,"text":"來的這個更為讓人家覺得這個就是更為誇張啦就是電影情節現實生活常常會比電影情節更為誇張那你也知道這個可能這兩部電影裡面的情節就是說在列車上面裝炸彈"},{"start":334.396,"end":350.368,"text":"要求列車要在100公里以上的速度才不會爆炸假設我們今天交通部或是鐵道公司或是高鐵也接收到類似的警告說我們從南港站發車的列車到左營"},{"start":353.493,"end":365.482,"text":"他的速度不能夠低於 時速100公里那否則他會被爆炸 那當然他也提出一些儲金的要求那我們交通部或是鐵道公司 高鐵公司會做怎樣的一個相對應"},{"start":366.961,"end":389.213,"text":"報告委員 這個算是關鍵基礎設施啦所以他的安全性的問題其實也牽涉到整個國安系統 大家也都很關心那針對 如果是有類似啦 電影情節裡面第一個原則性的問題 會不會跟恐怖份子做交涉我們國家的制度會跟恐怖份子做交涉嗎"},{"start":391.054,"end":415.855,"text":"這個要由國安單位去做判斷我們有一個國家安全辦公室當發生這樣的事情我們會馬上通報國家安全辦公室由他們來做判斷這不是由交通部這邊能夠做判斷所以你們不會決定說要不要交涉那假設要營救啦就是不交涉的情況下那接下來就是營救嘛那我們會怎樣的來不只我們交通部啦會怎樣跨機關的來做一些經濟處置"},{"start":418.403,"end":433.195,"text":"緊急處置這個我們有演練過嗎我們最近是我們的台鐵相關的一些演練也都有針對恐怖攻擊來做一個演練那國安辦公室也會來參與那有沒有辦法講具體一點"},{"start":434.876,"end":464.076,"text":"對我們有這樣的一個劇本劇本那像在國家安全辦公室也會指導我們就是怎麼樣來針對如果有一些恐怖事件發生的時候我們來做一個演練他們有一個演練的劇本那這個部分其實您有看過影片所以大概您也會好奇說他大概劇本怎麼樣然後怎麼因應我在想這個是不是會後有我們再把資料給我們這個鐵案演習的相關劇本其實甚至因為他已經被拍成電影了那有時候大家都知道會有一個模仿效應"},{"start":465.297,"end":480.41,"text":"這種東西也是有可能發生包括我們2021年的時候我們也曾經發生過就是有這個通報在台鐵上面裝炸彈那當然最後發現是虛驚異常那假設它是真的呢那電影已經演了這麼多那這件事情聽起來也不是說"},{"start":481.451,"end":503.616,"text":"做不到的事情 聽起來不是做不到的事情 那我希望說交通部門也能夠做一些最基本的 譬如說我剛剛講 連看電影的人都會知道說我們要先做的就是維持這個幹線上面的一個疏通嘛你們必須要緊急調度把所有的其他 所有的班次都暫停嘛把所有的列車排除在我們的這個幹線上面 然後後續才能做一些營救的工作嘛"},{"start":506.374,"end":530.739,"text":"是沒有錯其實除了台鐵高鐵其實也都有一些因應的模式所以跟委員報告其實我們這個跟國安單位都有一個很好的一個聯繫因為這個時候第一個我們就是會通報這個國安系統那國安系統的話整下來的話我們在我們這邊的話鐵路警察是第一線跟我們一起在合作的所以我們平常也有去針對這些做一些這種資訊的這種聯繫然後怎麼樣應盡的話其實是我們也有"},{"start":535.32,"end":549.725,"text":"類似的一些砂盤的推演來做但不過像剛才這種情況的話我們也可以繼續的來跟這個國安單位來跟他研究然後我們怎麼來做那實務上在電影裡面出現的他可能有一些營救方式比如說把這個車廂去把它拆解然後再用其他的車廂追上這台列車去把旅客輸運這樣實務上我們做不做得到"},{"start":561.889,"end":585.239,"text":"電影裡面的情節跟實務上我們列車這是不太可能啦不太可能但是我們如果知道他是放在哪一個車廂的話那我們當然會把前後三個車廂的客人全部都往外挪往其他的車廂挪移這樣所以電影新幹線的情節在實務上比較屬於電影裡面的想像"},{"start":586.305,"end":607.973,"text":"好 那沒關係 那後續啦 部長我們就是針對這樣子類似一個恐怖攻擊的一個議題那如果說後續要怎麼來營救我們的旅客好不好 希望能夠做一個檢討跟預演 演練我不是說實際上演練 而是說我們必須要在行政上面去做一些至少要沙盤推演沙盤推演 然後再提供一些資料給我們 以上 好不好 謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":641,"blocks":[["廖委員先翔：（11時14分）謝謝主席，麻煩邀請陳部長……"],["主席：請交通部陳部長。"],["廖委員先翔：伍次長、代理董事長，還有運安會林主委。"],["主席：請伍代理董事長，還有林主委。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["廖委員先翔：謝謝。部長好，各位早安。上次運安會主委來的時候大概有提到一些運安報告缺失的檢討，包括所有列管案件最多的就是港務局、港務相關的，另外一部分，3年以上最多的就是臺鐵公司列管缺失的案件，都是在部長的麾下。既然有這麼多的缺失要改善，而且都在部長這邊沒有辦法改善，包括臺鐵列管超過3年的有5件，這部分只有兩個可能：第一個，針對運安會提出的報告，業務機關窒礙難行；第二個，業務機關面對運安會的檢討報告執行不力。部長，我們先講臺鐵，超過3年的部分有5件，你們實際上遇到的困難大概是怎麼樣？是運安會的問題，還是執行業務的部分？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，針對運安會的要求，我目前為止並沒有聽到部內所屬機關說有窒礙難行的狀況……"],["廖委員先翔：所以運安會的檢討都是合理的？"],["陳部長世凱：以目前檢討的狀況，其實我知道每個案子都在進行當中，有一些確實還沒有完成，沒有完成有個別的原因，每個案子不一樣。"],["廖委員先翔：我看到有5件目前還有列管當中，可能2件跟第三代CTC的採購有關……"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["廖委員先翔：有的跟新車來了以後組織的調整有關，或者是號誌系統的檢測等等，沒關係，我們今天就具體地針對這5項已經列管超過3年的缺失，部長在這邊能不能具體地承諾，這5項缺失可以在多久的時間內完成改善？"],["陳部長世凱：好，臺鐵這邊有沒有辦法針對這個問題……"],["伍代理董事長勝園：跟委員報告，剛剛提到運安會的建議，其實從109年到113年總共大概建議了110個分項，臺鐵的部分已經完成了99個分項，也就是還剩下11個分項。"],["廖委員先翔：是。"],["伍代理董事長勝園：針對這11個分項，我們目前大概這樣規劃，第一個，剛剛提到運安會的要求是這樣，如果涉及到硬體的部分，硬體必須發包以後才可以解除；如果是軟體的部分，必須要完成之後看到成效，覺得還不錯，才會解除列管，所以他們的列管其實是非常地嚴謹。剛剛提到包括CTC這些問題，我想剩下11個分項，今年我們會再完成4個分項。"],["廖委員先翔：今年完成4個分項？"],["伍代理董事長勝園：對，今年完成4個分項，明年可以再把2個分項完成，後面關於CTC的部分應該會在今年就來發包。"],["廖委員先翔：第三代CTC今年就完成發包？"],["伍代理董事長勝園：是，儘量完成發包。"],["廖委員先翔：不好意思，再重複一遍，總共11個分項，有5個分項是列管超過3年，對不對？"],["伍代理董事長勝園：對。"],["廖委員先翔：今年完成……"],["伍代理董事長勝園：今年完成4項。"],["廖委員先翔：今年完成4項？"],["伍代理董事長勝園：對，115年我們會完成2項。"],["廖委員先翔：2項嘛？"],["伍代理董事長勝園：對。"],["廖委員先翔：還有剩下的5項是哪部分的問題會導致可能還需要更多的時間來調整？"],["伍代理董事長勝園：就是剛剛講的，有些是我們整個制度上的問題，那些可能要稍微晚一點，我想涉及的部分我們會儘早完成，現在這個部分大概都有列管來做。"],["廖委員先翔：好。"],["伍代理董事長勝園：譬如像剛剛講的營運設備部分，其實剛剛部長也特別講了，我們一定要往前推動。"],["廖委員先翔：剛剛次長也有說，運安會提出來的並不是硬體採購完成了就能夠解列，而是發包了之後，他們知道你們已經在做了，也沒有一定要看到結束，對不對？針對次長剛才說的1年內4項、明年2項，部長，對於這11項，你的目標是要在幾年內讓運安會完成解列？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我們希望在116年以前全部都可以完成。"],["廖委員先翔：好，116年底之前，運安會這11項列管的缺失都可以完成解除列管？"],["陳部長世凱：對，沒錯。"],["廖委員先翔：好，謝謝。另外，臺鐵公司的代表留下來，高鐵的代表也麻煩一下。大家都有在看影集，Netflix最近有一個影集叫做「新幹線驚爆倒數」，不知道部長有沒有看過？"],["陳部長世凱：我前兩天才看。"],["廖委員先翔：你有看嘛？"],["陳部長世凱：有看。"],["廖委員先翔：很好，我們可以聊一下。包括柯南的電影之前也有列車炸彈的相關議題。其實大家都說現實生活有時候總是比電影來得讓人覺得更為誇張，就是現實生活常常會比電影情節更為誇張，你也知道可能這兩部電影裡面的情節就是在列車上面裝炸彈，要求這個列車要在100公里以上的速度才不會爆炸。假設今天交通部或臺鐵公司或是高鐵也接收到類似的警告，說從南港站發車到左營的一個列車，速度不能夠低於時速100公里，否則它就會爆炸，當然他也提出贖金的要求，那麼交通部或是臺鐵公司或高鐵公司會有怎麼樣相對應的對策？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這算是關鍵基礎設施，所以它的安全性問題其實也牽涉到整個國安系統，大家也都很關心，如果是有類似電影情節裡面有炸彈……"],["廖委員先翔：第一個是原則性的問題，會不會跟恐怖分子做交涉？我們國家的制度會跟恐怖分子做交涉嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：這要由國安單位去做判斷，我們有一個國家安全辦公室，當發生這樣的事情，我們會馬上通報國家安全辦公室，由他們來做判斷，這不是交通部這邊能夠做判斷的。"],["廖委員先翔：所以你們不會決定說要不要交涉，那假設要營救，就是不交涉的情況下，接下來就是營救，不只交通部，會怎麼樣跨機關來做一些緊急處置？"],["陳部長世凱：緊急處置這個我們有演練過嗎？"],["馮總經理輝昇：我們臺鐵相關的一些演練也都有針對恐怖攻擊來做演練，國安辦公室也會來參與。"],["廖委員先翔：有沒有辦法講具體一點？"],["馮總經理輝昇：我們有這樣一個劇本，國家安全辦公室也會指導我們怎麼樣針對如果有一些恐怖事件發生的時候，我們來做一個演練。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，他們有一個演練的劇本，這個部分其實您有看過影片，所以您也會好奇大概劇本是怎麼樣，然後怎麼因應，我在想這是不是會後提供給委員？"],["馮總經理輝昇：我們再提供資料，就是鐵安演習的相關劇本。"],["廖委員先翔：甚至這些情節已經被拍成電影了，大家都知道有時候這會有模仿效應，這種事情也是有可能發生，包括2021年的時候也曾經發生過有通報在臺鐵上面裝炸彈，當然最後發現是虛驚一場，但假設這是真的呢？電影已經演了這麼多，這件事情聽起來也不是做不到的事情，所以我希望交通部能夠做一些最基本的應處，像我剛剛講的，連看電影的人都會知道要先做的就是維持幹線上的疏通，你們必須要緊急調度，把其他所有的班次都暫停，把所有幹線上的列車都排除，後續才能做一些營救的工作。"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒有錯，除了臺鐵，其實高鐵也都有一些因應的模式。"],["鄭董事長光遠：是，跟委員報告，其實我們跟國安單位都有很好的聯繫，遇到這個情況，第一個，我們就是會通報國安系統，國安系統再下來，在我們這邊，鐵路警察是第一線跟我們一起合作的，所以我們平常也有針對這些部分做資訊的聯繫，我們也有一些類似的沙盤推演。不過如果是像剛才提到的這種情況，我們也可以繼續來跟國安單位研究要怎麼來做。"],["廖委員先翔：在電影裡面出現的，可能有一些營救方式，比如把車廂拆解，再用其他車廂追上這臺列車將旅客輸運出去，在實務上我們做不做得到？以剛剛提到的電影裡面的情節跟實務上我們的列車來看。"],["鄭董事長光遠：這是不太可能啦。"],["廖委員先翔：不太可能？"],["鄭董事長光遠：不太可能，但是我們如果知道他是放在哪一個車廂，我們當然會把前後三個車廂的客人全部都往外挪，往其他的車廂挪移。"],["廖委員先翔：是，所以電影新幹線的那個情節在實務上比較屬於電影裡面的想像？"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["廖委員先翔：好，沒關係。部長，後續就是針對類似像這樣恐怖攻擊的議題，要怎麼來營救我們的旅客，希望能夠做一個檢討跟預演、演練，我不是說實際上的演練，而是說我們必須要在行政上面去做一些……"],["陳部長世凱：至少要沙盤推演過。"],["廖委員先翔：沙盤推演，然後再提供一些資料給我們，好不好？以上，謝謝部長。"],["陳部長世凱：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝廖先翔委員。","現在休息10分鐘。","休息（11時24分）","繼續開會（11時34分）"],["主席：請各位就座，我們繼續開會。","現在請林俊憲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":462,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-9","speakers":["林國成","洪孟楷","李昆澤","傅崐萁","陳雪生","何欣純","廖先翔","蔡其昌","吳宗憲","陳素月","林俊憲","徐富癸","魯明哲","許智傑","王義川","鍾佳濱","張啓楷","邱若華","邱志偉","黃建賓","王美惠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李柏毅","游顥","陳冠廷","徐欣瑩","蔡易餘","林德福","黃健豪","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":373,"meetingDate":["2025-04-30"],"gazette_id":"1144301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144301_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部民用航空局局長何淑萍、交通部鐵道局局長楊正君、國營臺灣鐵\n路股份有限公司代理董事長伍勝園、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長鄭光遠、中華航空股份有\n限公司董事長高星潢及國家運輸安全調查委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「近期我國航空、鐵路運\n營安全事件之檢討與改善及臺鐵票價調整方案」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144301_00008"}}}