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Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n十、本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十一、本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十二、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十三、本院委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、本院委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、本院委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十六、本院委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「動物保護法第五條、第二十條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十七、本院委員林思銘等18人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、本院委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十九、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二條及第五條條文修正草案」案。\n二十、本院委員游顥等23人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法增訂第十四條之三條文草案」案。\n二十三、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、本院委員蘇巧慧等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十六、本院委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「動物保護法第二十二條之四條文修正草案」案。（詢答）\n【4月30日及5月1日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-04-30","start_time":"2025-04-30T11:32:28+08:00","end_time":"2025-04-30T11:42:22+08:00","duration":594,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-3-19-11"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"160797","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160797","tool":"pyannote","id":"160797-pyannote"},"job_id":"jeuCQ7FPvoeC0bhj","queued_at":"2025-05-01 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00:01:44,248\n小港機場沒有為什麼小港機場沒有空間的問題應該全國一致嘛你只要是港口只要是海關只要是機場應該是一致的嘛都從國外都從國外回來啊為什麼只有桃園機場我跟委員報告齁就是小港機場因為它的停機坪下來以後的那個空間的空間的動線的問題你不能因為空間但是它在海關那邊但是它在海關那邊有檢查全部檢查那你桃園機場你就把它撤掉用海關來檢查就好啦不是\n\n5\n00:01:44,668 --> 00:02:11,446\n那桃園市長因為你不能一國多製啦部長你不能一國多製我們給你一億就要做好這個邊境管制避免從國外攜帶這個農食產品對不對包括這個豬瘟的問題等等有綠色有紅色對不對我們多一個程序為了一個把關那你只有桃園市長有好我支持你但你要落實怎麼落實要專業人來看\n\n6\n00:02:13,479 --> 00:02:41,340\n是不是專業?有沒有收穫訓練?他們說有收穫訓練啊有沒有證照?他們看得出來這個是違禁品嗎?那我請教你好,一年查獲多少?多少件數?來,一年查獲多少?一年查獲...在全國來講應該原則上差不多...全國只有一處而已啊對不對?只有草原機場有啊,崧山機場有沒有?崧山機場?崧山機場沒有也沒有嘛,那你不能一國多治啊,你要做就做徹底啊\n\n7\n00:02:42,657 --> 00:03:00,278\n我們給你預算你就好好去執行不要有任何破口不要有任何漏洞嘛跟委員說我們是因地制宜啦因為在台灣機場它整個台灣機場比較危險啊沒有它整個進來的整個人流其實它超乎我們在我們所有的不能因為人流多你就\n\n8\n00:03:01,762 --> 00:03:21,682\n你就管制人流少小港機場這個人流有不少耶那航班也不少啊在其他的機場比如說像在松崎還有在小港機場海關幫忙那我們人員正職人員也在現場那你海關可以幫忙的話我就跟你講你在移椅我們就把它砍掉了是不是跟你移椅是要做好邊境管制嘛\n\n9\n00:03:22,483 --> 00:03:43,554\n對不對你就要全面去落實所以我看了很多台中也有國際競技場對不對好我們就小港松山跟桃園我就覺得為什麼你這個桃園有松山跟小港沒有另外啊你們確實執行有沒有這個專業技術你執行查核多少數量裁罰金額多少\n\n10\n00:03:45,232 --> 00:04:04,531\n這個資料是要請會後提供不要留意形勢或者不要有這個因地制宜防疫沒有因地制宜的啦高雄防疫比較強是不是高雄防疫比較弱我跟委員報告你所提的我會後會請環境局來檢討我已經提供好幾次了你去現場看看他們是怎麼在檢查的有沒有專業\n\n11\n00:04:12,186 --> 00:04:34,097\n我曾經到機場去視察過,那這些檢查在那邊我沒有去視察,我經過十幾次我當然充分配合,也觀察他們檢查的動線,檢查的流程沒有看到一個防檢局的人,一位都沒有你可以完全委外嗎?那麼公選你怎麼執行呢?\n\n12\n00:04:36,707 --> 00:04:42,811\n證明好好確實檢討所以我們會來檢討不要講一講用什麼欸明天就忘了不會這個齁這個局長那個誰局長這個你要用心點你要去看一下然後你要檢討一下為什麼小港不需要為什麼松山不需要交給海關就可以了這個不是理由齁你沒有辦法說服我另外這個\n\n13\n00:05:06,550 --> 00:05:27,492\n部長你去過日本跟韓國嘛是應該常常去日本韓國不管是都會區或者一般的鄉村區流浪口是不是很少很少為什麼韓國跟日本流浪口那麼少你們有這個原因在哪裡這要不要說明一下您知不知道我先問你您知不知道\n\n14\n00:05:29,568 --> 00:05:48,786\n他甚至可以工作別人可以做到那麼好你應該去學習啊出國你就是了解別的其他國家哪一點做得好我們可以去學習你們可以跟相關的他們的單位主管單位去請教去學習或者去交流他們怎麼把流浪狗流浪犬做好管理\n\n15\n00:05:49,606 --> 00:06:14,566\n我所了解就是說其實飼主責任是一個非常重要的關鍵那在日本因為牠有冬天所以牠的流浪狗本身那加上台灣台灣還有零撲殺這個政策那現在零撲殺的一些抓捕都是用收容所的量牠們對動物是犬貓是非常友善的國度啊而能夠有效的做好管理\n\n16\n00:06:15,755 --> 00:06:30,195\n給犬貓一個友善的環境那又沒有流浪犬貓造成的問題欸人家做得很好啊那我問你主管機關人家哪裡做得好你答不出來對不對你沒有做功課來市長\n\n17\n00:06:33,632 --> 00:06:58,110\n那個報告委員那個日韓主要的部分是兩個部分第一個是在施主責任的要求那這部分的要求是有相對徹底的那第二個部分那他們針對不同的一個地區的一個處理有採取不同的措施那他們今天我們可以學習嗎我們這家修法能不能入法呢目前我們一直朝這個方向在做那個法制上的建構人家做得到我們沒有做不到的道理啦\n\n18\n00:06:59,420 --> 00:07:25,192\n做不到就是我們主管機關這個沒有做好法治面不足執行面不夠我就不相信人家做得到韓國韓國能做得到我們做不到我們一天到晚還在為流浪犬冒問題因為我一個選民因為流浪犬衝出來他下班途中\n\n19\n00:07:26,263 --> 00:07:32,626\n一個五十幾歲的一個媽媽這樣衝出來反映墓跡水淚殘哪有照啊這種絕對不是個案\n\n20\n00:07:41,902 --> 00:08:01,724\n你這流浪犬好好管理我在問你的報告裡面你103到11110年你編的多少錢補助各縣市來新建這個東部收容宿舍報告委員如果這10年的話平均大概應該是每年大概2億總共編的多少錢目前應該是編到18億\n\n21\n00:08:04,537 --> 00:08:31,092\n你就照你的報告來看你的報告寫給我照你的報告來問你嘛你變了二十億你補助二十億個縣市嘛對不對那我目前啊全國公立收容所總進可收容幾隻犬貓加起來總共有幾隻應該一萬一千隻一萬一千隻這算是正確的你未來從一一四到一一九還有沒有相關的計畫\n\n22\n00:08:33,829 --> 00:08:59,165\n應該有持續吧報告委員我們目前有提支忠誠的計畫那目前院還沒核定忠誠的計畫叫什麼名字那個友善動物保護計畫的第二期錯114到119是擴展動物收容量及場域優化計畫哪有第二期哪有第二期你會報告你就沒心錯你主管的局面在做什麼\n\n23\n00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:26,740\n你來這裡不是說這麼多年沒什麼事我們有準備我從頭到尾每天都在出門有時候就要幫你計算看你有準備沒有看你有好好做行為沒有我拿你的簿給你問你怎麼答不出來我怎麼樣對你們有信心是不是剩下的我其他用順便來問時間到了\n\n24\n00:09:29,365 --> 00:09:51,971\n農業部要加油啦各司數我剛問的問題我會繼續再追我希望你們讓國人能夠安心讓流浪讓全貓有一個好的環境一個友善的環境把這些問題全部根除可不可以解決日韓做得到我們沒有理由做不到加油吧好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7574\t16752\t谢谢主席有请农业部陈部长陈部长动森物防疫检疫署徐署长徐署长\n20485\t42873\t這個部長,我們在桃園機場,它有這個動植物,就是回國的這個國人啊,他的所提的行李要再經過安檢一次,對不對?那主要目的是什麼?最主要是偵測,夾帶有這種動植物本身不可攜帶的這些物品,特別是要檢疫的。那是委外嗎?\n44784\t72667\t一部分委外委外的人力啦全部委外嘛我看不到你們的人啊我看不到你們的人 全部都是委外的你一年經費會變多少錢有將近五億五億就執行這個安檢五億那這是在所有的在境外安檢的部分安檢的部分大概差不多一億一億 好小港局長有沒有\n74918\t104248\t小港機場沒有為什麼小港機場沒有空間的問題應該全國一致嘛你只要是港口只要是海關只要是機場應該是一致的嘛都從國外都從國外回來啊為什麼只有桃園機場我跟委員報告齁就是小港機場因為它的停機坪下來以後的那個空間的空間的動線的問題你不能因為空間但是它在海關那邊但是它在海關那邊有檢查全部檢查那你桃園機場你就把它撤掉用海關來檢查就好啦不是\n104668\t131446\t那桃園市長因為你不能一國多製啦部長你不能一國多製我們給你一億就要做好這個邊境管制避免從國外攜帶這個農食產品對不對包括這個豬瘟的問題等等有綠色有紅色對不對我們多一個程序為了一個把關那你只有桃園市長有好我支持你但你要落實怎麼落實要專業人來看\n133479\t161340\t是不是專業?有沒有收穫訓練?他們說有收穫訓練啊有沒有證照?他們看得出來這個是違禁品嗎?那我請教你好,一年查獲多少?多少件數?來,一年查獲多少?一年查獲...在全國來講應該原則上差不多...全國只有一處而已啊對不對?只有草原機場有啊,崧山機場有沒有?崧山機場?崧山機場沒有也沒有嘛,那你不能一國多治啊,你要做就做徹底啊\n162657\t180278\t我們給你預算你就好好去執行不要有任何破口不要有任何漏洞嘛跟委員說我們是因地制宜啦因為在台灣機場它整個台灣機場比較危險啊沒有它整個進來的整個人流其實它超乎我們在我們所有的不能因為人流多你就\n181762\t201682\t你就管制人流少小港機場這個人流有不少耶那航班也不少啊在其他的機場比如說像在松崎還有在小港機場海關幫忙那我們人員 正職人員也在現場那你海關可以幫忙的話我就跟你講你在移椅我們就把它砍掉了是不是跟你移椅是要做好邊境管制嘛\n202483\t223554\t對不對 你就要全面去落實所以我看了很多 台中也有國際競技場 對不對好 我們就小港 松山跟桃園我就覺得為什麼你這個桃園有 松山跟小港沒有另外啊 你們確實執行有沒有這個專業技術你執行查核多少數量 裁罰金額多少\n225232\t244531\t這個資料是要請會後提供不要留意形勢或者不要有這個因地制宜防疫沒有因地制宜的啦高雄防疫比較強是不是高雄防疫比較弱我跟委員報告你所提的我會後會請環境局來檢討我已經提供好幾次了你去現場看看他們是怎麼在檢查的有沒有專業\n252186\t274097\t我曾經到機場去視察過,那這些檢查在那邊我沒有去視察,我經過十幾次我當然充分配合,也觀察他們檢查的動線,檢查的流程沒有看到一個防檢局的人,一位都沒有你可以完全委外嗎?那麼公選你怎麼執行呢?\n276707\t282811\t證明好好確實檢討所以我們會來檢討不要講一講用什麼 欸明天就忘了不會這個齁 這個局長 那個誰局長 這個你要用心點 你要去看一下然後你要檢討一下為什麼小港不需要為什麼松山不需要 交給海關就可以了這個不是理由齁 你沒有辦法說服我另外這個\n306550\t327492\t部長你去過日本跟韓國嘛是應該常常去日本韓國不管是都會區或者一般的鄉村區流浪口是不是很少很少為什麼韓國跟日本流浪口那麼少你們有這個原因在哪裡這要不要說明一下您知不知道我先問你您知不知道\n329568\t348786\t他甚至可以工作別人可以做到那麼好你應該去學習啊出國你就是了解別的其他國家哪一點做得好我們可以去學習你們可以跟相關的他們的單位主管單位去請教去學習或者去交流他們怎麼把流浪狗 流浪犬做好管理\n349606\t374566\t我所了解就是說其實飼主責任是一個非常重要的關鍵那在日本因為牠有冬天所以牠的流浪狗本身那加上台灣台灣還有零撲殺這個政策那現在零撲殺的一些抓捕都是用收容所的量牠們對動物是犬貓是非常友善的國度啊而能夠有效的做好管理\n375755\t390195\t給犬貓一個友善的環境那又沒有流浪犬貓造成的問題欸人家做得很好啊那我問你主管機關人家哪裡做得好你答不出來對不對 你沒有做功課來 市長\n393632\t418110\t那個報告委員那個日韓主要的部分是兩個部分第一個是在施主責任的要求那這部分的要求是有相對徹底的那第二個部分那他們針對不同的一個地區的一個處理有採取不同的措施那他們今天我們可以學習嗎我們這家修法能不能入法呢目前我們一直朝這個方向在做那個法制上的建構人家做得到我們沒有做不到的道理啦\n419420\t445192\t做不到就是我們主管機關這個沒有做好法治面不足 執行面不夠我就不相信人家做得到韓國韓國能做得到我們做不到我們一天到晚還在為流浪犬冒問題因為我一個選民因為流浪犬衝出來他下班途中\n446263\t452626\t一個五十幾歲的一個媽媽這樣衝出來反映墓跡水淚殘哪有照啊這種絕對不是個案\n461902\t481724\t你這流浪犬好好管理我在問你的報告裡面你103到11110年你編的多少錢補助各縣市來新建這個東部收容宿舍報告委員如果這10年的話平均大概應該是每年大概2億總共編的多少錢目前應該是編到18億\n484537\t511092\t你就照你的報告來看 你的報告寫給我 照你的報告來問你嘛你變了二十億 你補助二十億個縣市嘛 對不對那我目前啊 全國公立收容所總進可收容幾隻犬貓加起來總共有幾隻應該一萬一千隻一萬一千隻 這算是正確的你未來從一一四到一一九 還有沒有相關的計畫\n513829\t539165\t應該有持續吧報告委員我們目前有提支忠誠的計畫那目前院還沒核定忠誠的計畫叫什麼名字那個友善動物保護計畫的第二期錯114到119是擴展動物收容量及場域優化計畫哪有第二期哪有第二期你會報告你就沒心錯你主管的局面在做什麼\n541400\t566740\t你來這裡不是說這麼多年沒什麼事我們有準備我從頭到尾每天都在出門有時候就要幫你計算看你有準備沒有看你有好好做行為沒有我拿你的簿給你問你怎麼答不出來我怎麼樣對你們有信心是不是剩下的我其他用順便來問時間到了\n569365\t591971\t農業部要加油啦各司數 我剛問的問題 我會繼續再追我希望你們讓國人能夠安心讓流浪 讓全貓有一個好的環境一個友善的環境把這些問題全部根除 可不可以解決日韓做得到 我們沒有理由做不到加油吧好 謝謝\n","txt":"谢谢主席有请农业部陈部长陈部长动森物防疫检疫署徐署长徐署长\n這個部長,我們在桃園機場,它有這個動植物,就是回國的這個國人啊,他的所提的行李要再經過安檢一次,對不對?那主要目的是什麼?最主要是偵測,夾帶有這種動植物本身不可攜帶的這些物品,特別是要檢疫的。那是委外嗎?\n一部分委外委外的人力啦全部委外嘛我看不到你們的人啊我看不到你們的人 全部都是委外的你一年經費會變多少錢有將近五億五億就執行這個安檢五億那這是在所有的在境外安檢的部分安檢的部分大概差不多一億一億 好小港局長有沒有\n小港機場沒有為什麼小港機場沒有空間的問題應該全國一致嘛你只要是港口只要是海關只要是機場應該是一致的嘛都從國外都從國外回來啊為什麼只有桃園機場我跟委員報告齁就是小港機場因為它的停機坪下來以後的那個空間的空間的動線的問題你不能因為空間但是它在海關那邊但是它在海關那邊有檢查全部檢查那你桃園機場你就把它撤掉用海關來檢查就好啦不是\n那桃園市長因為你不能一國多製啦部長你不能一國多製我們給你一億就要做好這個邊境管制避免從國外攜帶這個農食產品對不對包括這個豬瘟的問題等等有綠色有紅色對不對我們多一個程序為了一個把關那你只有桃園市長有好我支持你但你要落實怎麼落實要專業人來看\n是不是專業?有沒有收穫訓練?他們說有收穫訓練啊有沒有證照?他們看得出來這個是違禁品嗎?那我請教你好,一年查獲多少?多少件數?來,一年查獲多少?一年查獲...在全國來講應該原則上差不多...全國只有一處而已啊對不對?只有草原機場有啊,崧山機場有沒有?崧山機場?崧山機場沒有也沒有嘛,那你不能一國多治啊,你要做就做徹底啊\n我們給你預算你就好好去執行不要有任何破口不要有任何漏洞嘛跟委員說我們是因地制宜啦因為在台灣機場它整個台灣機場比較危險啊沒有它整個進來的整個人流其實它超乎我們在我們所有的不能因為人流多你就\n你就管制人流少小港機場這個人流有不少耶那航班也不少啊在其他的機場比如說像在松崎還有在小港機場海關幫忙那我們人員 正職人員也在現場那你海關可以幫忙的話我就跟你講你在移椅我們就把它砍掉了是不是跟你移椅是要做好邊境管制嘛\n對不對 你就要全面去落實所以我看了很多 台中也有國際競技場 對不對好 我們就小港 松山跟桃園我就覺得為什麼你這個桃園有 松山跟小港沒有另外啊 你們確實執行有沒有這個專業技術你執行查核多少數量 裁罰金額多少\n這個資料是要請會後提供不要留意形勢或者不要有這個因地制宜防疫沒有因地制宜的啦高雄防疫比較強是不是高雄防疫比較弱我跟委員報告你所提的我會後會請環境局來檢討我已經提供好幾次了你去現場看看他們是怎麼在檢查的有沒有專業\n我曾經到機場去視察過,那這些檢查在那邊我沒有去視察,我經過十幾次我當然充分配合,也觀察他們檢查的動線,檢查的流程沒有看到一個防檢局的人,一位都沒有你可以完全委外嗎?那麼公選你怎麼執行呢?\n證明好好確實檢討所以我們會來檢討不要講一講用什麼 欸明天就忘了不會這個齁 這個局長 那個誰局長 這個你要用心點 你要去看一下然後你要檢討一下為什麼小港不需要為什麼松山不需要 交給海關就可以了這個不是理由齁 你沒有辦法說服我另外這個\n部長你去過日本跟韓國嘛是應該常常去日本韓國不管是都會區或者一般的鄉村區流浪口是不是很少很少為什麼韓國跟日本流浪口那麼少你們有這個原因在哪裡這要不要說明一下您知不知道我先問你您知不知道\n他甚至可以工作別人可以做到那麼好你應該去學習啊出國你就是了解別的其他國家哪一點做得好我們可以去學習你們可以跟相關的他們的單位主管單位去請教去學習或者去交流他們怎麼把流浪狗 流浪犬做好管理\n我所了解就是說其實飼主責任是一個非常重要的關鍵那在日本因為牠有冬天所以牠的流浪狗本身那加上台灣台灣還有零撲殺這個政策那現在零撲殺的一些抓捕都是用收容所的量牠們對動物是犬貓是非常友善的國度啊而能夠有效的做好管理\n給犬貓一個友善的環境那又沒有流浪犬貓造成的問題欸人家做得很好啊那我問你主管機關人家哪裡做得好你答不出來對不對 你沒有做功課來 市長\n那個報告委員那個日韓主要的部分是兩個部分第一個是在施主責任的要求那這部分的要求是有相對徹底的那第二個部分那他們針對不同的一個地區的一個處理有採取不同的措施那他們今天我們可以學習嗎我們這家修法能不能入法呢目前我們一直朝這個方向在做那個法制上的建構人家做得到我們沒有做不到的道理啦\n做不到就是我們主管機關這個沒有做好法治面不足 執行面不夠我就不相信人家做得到韓國韓國能做得到我們做不到我們一天到晚還在為流浪犬冒問題因為我一個選民因為流浪犬衝出來他下班途中\n一個五十幾歲的一個媽媽這樣衝出來反映墓跡水淚殘哪有照啊這種絕對不是個案\n你這流浪犬好好管理我在問你的報告裡面你103到11110年你編的多少錢補助各縣市來新建這個東部收容宿舍報告委員如果這10年的話平均大概應該是每年大概2億總共編的多少錢目前應該是編到18億\n你就照你的報告來看 你的報告寫給我 照你的報告來問你嘛你變了二十億 你補助二十億個縣市嘛 對不對那我目前啊 全國公立收容所總進可收容幾隻犬貓加起來總共有幾隻應該一萬一千隻一萬一千隻 這算是正確的你未來從一一四到一一九 還有沒有相關的計畫\n應該有持續吧報告委員我們目前有提支忠誠的計畫那目前院還沒核定忠誠的計畫叫什麼名字那個友善動物保護計畫的第二期錯114到119是擴展動物收容量及場域優化計畫哪有第二期哪有第二期你會報告你就沒心錯你主管的局面在做什麼\n你來這裡不是說這麼多年沒什麼事我們有準備我從頭到尾每天都在出門有時候就要幫你計算看你有準備沒有看你有好好做行為沒有我拿你的簿給你問你怎麼答不出來我怎麼樣對你們有信心是不是剩下的我其他用順便來問時間到了\n農業部要加油啦各司數 我剛問的問題 我會繼續再追我希望你們讓國人能夠安心讓流浪 讓全貓有一個好的環境一個友善的環境把這些問題全部根除 可不可以解決日韓做得到 我們沒有理由做不到加油吧好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.574 --> 00:16.752\n谢谢主席有请农业部陈部长陈部长动森物防疫检疫署徐署长徐署长\n\n00:20.485 --> 00:42.873\n這個部長,我們在桃園機場,它有這個動植物,就是回國的這個國人啊,他的所提的行李要再經過安檢一次,對不對?那主要目的是什麼?最主要是偵測,夾帶有這種動植物本身不可攜帶的這些物品,特別是要檢疫的。那是委外嗎?\n\n00:44.784 --> 01:12.667\n一部分委外委外的人力啦全部委外嘛我看不到你們的人啊我看不到你們的人全部都是委外的你一年經費會變多少錢有將近五億五億就執行這個安檢五億那這是在所有的在境外安檢的部分安檢的部分大概差不多一億一億好小港局長有沒有\n\n01:14.918 --> 01:44.248\n小港機場沒有為什麼小港機場沒有空間的問題應該全國一致嘛你只要是港口只要是海關只要是機場應該是一致的嘛都從國外都從國外回來啊為什麼只有桃園機場我跟委員報告齁就是小港機場因為它的停機坪下來以後的那個空間的空間的動線的問題你不能因為空間但是它在海關那邊但是它在海關那邊有檢查全部檢查那你桃園機場你就把它撤掉用海關來檢查就好啦不是\n\n01:44.668 --> 02:11.446\n那桃園市長因為你不能一國多製啦部長你不能一國多製我們給你一億就要做好這個邊境管制避免從國外攜帶這個農食產品對不對包括這個豬瘟的問題等等有綠色有紅色對不對我們多一個程序為了一個把關那你只有桃園市長有好我支持你但你要落實怎麼落實要專業人來看\n\n02:13.479 --> 02:41.340\n是不是專業?有沒有收穫訓練?他們說有收穫訓練啊有沒有證照?他們看得出來這個是違禁品嗎?那我請教你好,一年查獲多少?多少件數?來,一年查獲多少?一年查獲...在全國來講應該原則上差不多...全國只有一處而已啊對不對?只有草原機場有啊,崧山機場有沒有?崧山機場?崧山機場沒有也沒有嘛,那你不能一國多治啊,你要做就做徹底啊\n\n02:42.657 --> 03:00.278\n我們給你預算你就好好去執行不要有任何破口不要有任何漏洞嘛跟委員說我們是因地制宜啦因為在台灣機場它整個台灣機場比較危險啊沒有它整個進來的整個人流其實它超乎我們在我們所有的不能因為人流多你就\n\n03:01.762 --> 03:21.682\n你就管制人流少小港機場這個人流有不少耶那航班也不少啊在其他的機場比如說像在松崎還有在小港機場海關幫忙那我們人員正職人員也在現場那你海關可以幫忙的話我就跟你講你在移椅我們就把它砍掉了是不是跟你移椅是要做好邊境管制嘛\n\n03:22.483 --> 03:43.554\n對不對你就要全面去落實所以我看了很多台中也有國際競技場對不對好我們就小港松山跟桃園我就覺得為什麼你這個桃園有松山跟小港沒有另外啊你們確實執行有沒有這個專業技術你執行查核多少數量裁罰金額多少\n\n03:45.232 --> 04:04.531\n這個資料是要請會後提供不要留意形勢或者不要有這個因地制宜防疫沒有因地制宜的啦高雄防疫比較強是不是高雄防疫比較弱我跟委員報告你所提的我會後會請環境局來檢討我已經提供好幾次了你去現場看看他們是怎麼在檢查的有沒有專業\n\n04:12.186 --> 04:34.097\n我曾經到機場去視察過,那這些檢查在那邊我沒有去視察,我經過十幾次我當然充分配合,也觀察他們檢查的動線,檢查的流程沒有看到一個防檢局的人,一位都沒有你可以完全委外嗎?那麼公選你怎麼執行呢?\n\n04:36.707 --> 04:42.811\n證明好好確實檢討所以我們會來檢討不要講一講用什麼欸明天就忘了不會這個齁這個局長那個誰局長這個你要用心點你要去看一下然後你要檢討一下為什麼小港不需要為什麼松山不需要交給海關就可以了這個不是理由齁你沒有辦法說服我另外這個\n\n05:06.550 --> 05:27.492\n部長你去過日本跟韓國嘛是應該常常去日本韓國不管是都會區或者一般的鄉村區流浪口是不是很少很少為什麼韓國跟日本流浪口那麼少你們有這個原因在哪裡這要不要說明一下您知不知道我先問你您知不知道\n\n05:29.568 --> 05:48.786\n他甚至可以工作別人可以做到那麼好你應該去學習啊出國你就是了解別的其他國家哪一點做得好我們可以去學習你們可以跟相關的他們的單位主管單位去請教去學習或者去交流他們怎麼把流浪狗流浪犬做好管理\n\n05:49.606 --> 06:14.566\n我所了解就是說其實飼主責任是一個非常重要的關鍵那在日本因為牠有冬天所以牠的流浪狗本身那加上台灣台灣還有零撲殺這個政策那現在零撲殺的一些抓捕都是用收容所的量牠們對動物是犬貓是非常友善的國度啊而能夠有效的做好管理\n\n06:15.755 --> 06:30.195\n給犬貓一個友善的環境那又沒有流浪犬貓造成的問題欸人家做得很好啊那我問你主管機關人家哪裡做得好你答不出來對不對你沒有做功課來市長\n\n06:33.632 --> 06:58.110\n那個報告委員那個日韓主要的部分是兩個部分第一個是在施主責任的要求那這部分的要求是有相對徹底的那第二個部分那他們針對不同的一個地區的一個處理有採取不同的措施那他們今天我們可以學習嗎我們這家修法能不能入法呢目前我們一直朝這個方向在做那個法制上的建構人家做得到我們沒有做不到的道理啦\n\n06:59.420 --> 07:25.192\n做不到就是我們主管機關這個沒有做好法治面不足執行面不夠我就不相信人家做得到韓國韓國能做得到我們做不到我們一天到晚還在為流浪犬冒問題因為我一個選民因為流浪犬衝出來他下班途中\n\n07:26.263 --> 07:32.626\n一個五十幾歲的一個媽媽這樣衝出來反映墓跡水淚殘哪有照啊這種絕對不是個案\n\n07:41.902 --> 08:01.724\n你這流浪犬好好管理我在問你的報告裡面你103到11110年你編的多少錢補助各縣市來新建這個東部收容宿舍報告委員如果這10年的話平均大概應該是每年大概2億總共編的多少錢目前應該是編到18億\n\n08:04.537 --> 08:31.092\n你就照你的報告來看你的報告寫給我照你的報告來問你嘛你變了二十億你補助二十億個縣市嘛對不對那我目前啊全國公立收容所總進可收容幾隻犬貓加起來總共有幾隻應該一萬一千隻一萬一千隻這算是正確的你未來從一一四到一一九還有沒有相關的計畫\n\n08:33.829 --> 08:59.165\n應該有持續吧報告委員我們目前有提支忠誠的計畫那目前院還沒核定忠誠的計畫叫什麼名字那個友善動物保護計畫的第二期錯114到119是擴展動物收容量及場域優化計畫哪有第二期哪有第二期你會報告你就沒心錯你主管的局面在做什麼\n\n09:01.400 --> 09:26.740\n你來這裡不是說這麼多年沒什麼事我們有準備我從頭到尾每天都在出門有時候就要幫你計算看你有準備沒有看你有好好做行為沒有我拿你的簿給你問你怎麼答不出來我怎麼樣對你們有信心是不是剩下的我其他用順便來問時間到了\n\n09:29.365 --> 09:51.971\n農業部要加油啦各司數我剛問的問題我會繼續再追我希望你們讓國人能夠安心讓流浪讓全貓有一個好的環境一個友善的環境把這些問題全部根除可不可以解決日韓做得到我們沒有理由做不到加油吧好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.574,"end":16.752,"text":"谢谢主席有请农业部陈部长陈部长动森物防疫检疫署徐署长徐署长"},{"start":20.485,"end":42.873,"text":"這個部長,我們在桃園機場,它有這個動植物,就是回國的這個國人啊,他的所提的行李要再經過安檢一次,對不對?那主要目的是什麼?最主要是偵測,夾帶有這種動植物本身不可攜帶的這些物品,特別是要檢疫的。那是委外嗎?"},{"start":44.784,"end":72.667,"text":"一部分委外委外的人力啦全部委外嘛我看不到你們的人啊我看不到你們的人 全部都是委外的你一年經費會變多少錢有將近五億五億就執行這個安檢五億那這是在所有的在境外安檢的部分安檢的部分大概差不多一億一億 好小港局長有沒有"},{"start":74.918,"end":104.248,"text":"小港機場沒有為什麼小港機場沒有空間的問題應該全國一致嘛你只要是港口只要是海關只要是機場應該是一致的嘛都從國外都從國外回來啊為什麼只有桃園機場我跟委員報告齁就是小港機場因為它的停機坪下來以後的那個空間的空間的動線的問題你不能因為空間但是它在海關那邊但是它在海關那邊有檢查全部檢查那你桃園機場你就把它撤掉用海關來檢查就好啦不是"},{"start":104.668,"end":131.446,"text":"那桃園市長因為你不能一國多製啦部長你不能一國多製我們給你一億就要做好這個邊境管制避免從國外攜帶這個農食產品對不對包括這個豬瘟的問題等等有綠色有紅色對不對我們多一個程序為了一個把關那你只有桃園市長有好我支持你但你要落實怎麼落實要專業人來看"},{"start":133.479,"end":161.34,"text":"是不是專業?有沒有收穫訓練?他們說有收穫訓練啊有沒有證照?他們看得出來這個是違禁品嗎?那我請教你好,一年查獲多少?多少件數?來,一年查獲多少?一年查獲...在全國來講應該原則上差不多...全國只有一處而已啊對不對?只有草原機場有啊,崧山機場有沒有?崧山機場?崧山機場沒有也沒有嘛,那你不能一國多治啊,你要做就做徹底啊"},{"start":162.657,"end":180.278,"text":"我們給你預算你就好好去執行不要有任何破口不要有任何漏洞嘛跟委員說我們是因地制宜啦因為在台灣機場它整個台灣機場比較危險啊沒有它整個進來的整個人流其實它超乎我們在我們所有的不能因為人流多你就"},{"start":181.762,"end":201.682,"text":"你就管制人流少小港機場這個人流有不少耶那航班也不少啊在其他的機場比如說像在松崎還有在小港機場海關幫忙那我們人員 正職人員也在現場那你海關可以幫忙的話我就跟你講你在移椅我們就把它砍掉了是不是跟你移椅是要做好邊境管制嘛"},{"start":202.483,"end":223.554,"text":"對不對 你就要全面去落實所以我看了很多 台中也有國際競技場 對不對好 我們就小港 松山跟桃園我就覺得為什麼你這個桃園有 松山跟小港沒有另外啊 你們確實執行有沒有這個專業技術你執行查核多少數量 裁罰金額多少"},{"start":225.232,"end":244.531,"text":"這個資料是要請會後提供不要留意形勢或者不要有這個因地制宜防疫沒有因地制宜的啦高雄防疫比較強是不是高雄防疫比較弱我跟委員報告你所提的我會後會請環境局來檢討我已經提供好幾次了你去現場看看他們是怎麼在檢查的有沒有專業"},{"start":252.186,"end":274.097,"text":"我曾經到機場去視察過,那這些檢查在那邊我沒有去視察,我經過十幾次我當然充分配合,也觀察他們檢查的動線,檢查的流程沒有看到一個防檢局的人,一位都沒有你可以完全委外嗎?那麼公選你怎麼執行呢?"},{"start":276.707,"end":282.811,"text":"證明好好確實檢討所以我們會來檢討不要講一講用什麼 欸明天就忘了不會這個齁 這個局長 那個誰局長 這個你要用心點 你要去看一下然後你要檢討一下為什麼小港不需要為什麼松山不需要 交給海關就可以了這個不是理由齁 你沒有辦法說服我另外這個"},{"start":306.55,"end":327.492,"text":"部長你去過日本跟韓國嘛是應該常常去日本韓國不管是都會區或者一般的鄉村區流浪口是不是很少很少為什麼韓國跟日本流浪口那麼少你們有這個原因在哪裡這要不要說明一下您知不知道我先問你您知不知道"},{"start":329.568,"end":348.786,"text":"他甚至可以工作別人可以做到那麼好你應該去學習啊出國你就是了解別的其他國家哪一點做得好我們可以去學習你們可以跟相關的他們的單位主管單位去請教去學習或者去交流他們怎麼把流浪狗 流浪犬做好管理"},{"start":349.606,"end":374.566,"text":"我所了解就是說其實飼主責任是一個非常重要的關鍵那在日本因為牠有冬天所以牠的流浪狗本身那加上台灣台灣還有零撲殺這個政策那現在零撲殺的一些抓捕都是用收容所的量牠們對動物是犬貓是非常友善的國度啊而能夠有效的做好管理"},{"start":375.755,"end":390.195,"text":"給犬貓一個友善的環境那又沒有流浪犬貓造成的問題欸人家做得很好啊那我問你主管機關人家哪裡做得好你答不出來對不對 你沒有做功課來 市長"},{"start":393.632,"end":418.11,"text":"那個報告委員那個日韓主要的部分是兩個部分第一個是在施主責任的要求那這部分的要求是有相對徹底的那第二個部分那他們針對不同的一個地區的一個處理有採取不同的措施那他們今天我們可以學習嗎我們這家修法能不能入法呢目前我們一直朝這個方向在做那個法制上的建構人家做得到我們沒有做不到的道理啦"},{"start":419.42,"end":445.192,"text":"做不到就是我們主管機關這個沒有做好法治面不足 執行面不夠我就不相信人家做得到韓國韓國能做得到我們做不到我們一天到晚還在為流浪犬冒問題因為我一個選民因為流浪犬衝出來他下班途中"},{"start":446.263,"end":452.626,"text":"一個五十幾歲的一個媽媽這樣衝出來反映墓跡水淚殘哪有照啊這種絕對不是個案"},{"start":461.902,"end":481.724,"text":"你這流浪犬好好管理我在問你的報告裡面你103到11110年你編的多少錢補助各縣市來新建這個東部收容宿舍報告委員如果這10年的話平均大概應該是每年大概2億總共編的多少錢目前應該是編到18億"},{"start":484.537,"end":511.092,"text":"你就照你的報告來看 你的報告寫給我 照你的報告來問你嘛你變了二十億 你補助二十億個縣市嘛 對不對那我目前啊 全國公立收容所總進可收容幾隻犬貓加起來總共有幾隻應該一萬一千隻一萬一千隻 這算是正確的你未來從一一四到一一九 還有沒有相關的計畫"},{"start":513.829,"end":539.165,"text":"應該有持續吧報告委員我們目前有提支忠誠的計畫那目前院還沒核定忠誠的計畫叫什麼名字那個友善動物保護計畫的第二期錯114到119是擴展動物收容量及場域優化計畫哪有第二期哪有第二期你會報告你就沒心錯你主管的局面在做什麼"},{"start":541.4,"end":566.74,"text":"你來這裡不是說這麼多年沒什麼事我們有準備我從頭到尾每天都在出門有時候就要幫你計算看你有準備沒有看你有好好做行為沒有我拿你的簿給你問你怎麼答不出來我怎麼樣對你們有信心是不是剩下的我其他用順便來問時間到了"},{"start":569.365,"end":591.971,"text":"農業部要加油啦各司數 我剛問的問題 我會繼續再追我希望你們讓國人能夠安心讓流浪 讓全貓有一個好的環境一個友善的環境把這些問題全部根除 可不可以解決日韓做得到 我們沒有理由做不到加油吧好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":738,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（11時32分）謝謝主席，有請農業部陳部長。"],["主席：陳部長。"],["邱委員志偉：還有動植物防疫檢疫署的徐署長。"],["主席：徐署長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：部長，我請教你第一個問題，我們在桃園機場有動植物的檢疫，就是回國國人所提的行李要再經過一次安檢，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：主要的目的是什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：最主要是偵測是否有夾帶不可攜帶的動植物，特別是要檢疫的。"],["邱委員志偉：那是委外嘛？"],["陳部長駿季：有一部分是委外的人力。"],["邱委員志偉：全部委外嘛，我看不到你們的人啦！"],["陳部長駿季：請署長回答一下。"],["徐署長榮彬：跟委員報告，有部分是正職……"],["邱委員志偉：你們回去檢討一下，因為我看不到你們的人，全部都是委外的，你們一年的經費是編列多少錢？"],["徐署長榮彬：有將近5億。"],["邱委員志偉：執行這個安檢就編5億？"],["徐署長榮彬：這是所有在境外的……"],["邱委員志偉：我是問安檢的部分。"],["徐署長榮彬：安檢的部分大概差不多1億。"],["邱委員志偉：好，小港機場有沒有？"],["徐署長榮彬：小港機場沒有。"],["邱委員志偉：為什麼小港機場沒有？"],["陳部長駿季：空間的問題。"],["邱委員志偉：應該全國一致嘛！只要是港口、只要是海關、只要是機場，應該是一致的嘛，都是從國外回來啊！為什麼只有桃園機場有？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，因為在小港機場從停機坪下來以後的那個空間動線的問題……"],["邱委員志偉：你不能因為空間不夠就不設。"],["陳部長駿季：但是在海關那邊有全部檢查。"],["邱委員志偉：那你就把桃園機場的撤掉，用海關來檢查就好了。"],["陳部長駿季：不是，在桃園機場是因為人流比較多。"],["邱委員志偉：你不能一國多制啦！部長，你不能一國多制，我們給你1億，你就要做好邊境管制，避免從國外攜帶動植物或其產品，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：包括豬瘟的問題等等，有綠色通道，也有紅色通道，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：我們多一個程序就是為了把關，那你只有桃園機場有，好，我支持你，但是你要落實，要怎麼落實？要由專業人員來看，是不是專業？有沒有受過訓練？"],["陳部長駿季：他們都有受過訓練啊！"],["邱委員志偉：有沒有證照？他們看得出來這個是違禁品嗎？那我請教你，一年查獲多少件數？"],["徐署長榮彬：在全國來講，原則上一年查獲差不多……"],["邱委員志偉：全國只有一處而已，只有桃園機場有，松山機場有沒有？"],["徐署長榮彬：松山機場沒有。"],["邱委員志偉：也沒有嘛！你不能一國多制，你要做就做澈底，我們給你預算你就要好好去執行，不要有任何破口，不要有任何漏洞，是不是這樣子？"],["徐署長榮彬：跟委員說明，原則上我們是因地制宜，因為在桃園機場……"],["邱委員志偉：桃園機場比較危險？"],["徐署長榮彬：沒有，它整個進來的人流其實是超乎我們在所有的……"],["邱委員志偉：不能因為人流多，你就管制，小港機場的人流也不少，它的航班也不少。"],["徐署長榮彬：在其他的機場，比如在松機以及小港機場原則上是由海關幫忙，我們的正職人員也在現場。"],["邱委員志偉：如果海關可以幫忙的話，我跟你講，這1億我們就把它砍掉了，給你1億是要做好邊境管制，你就要全面去落實，我看了很多，臺中也有國際機場，對不對？就小港、松山及桃園來講，為什麼桃園有，松山和小港沒有？另外，你們在確實執行上有沒有這個專業技術？你執行查獲多少數量？裁罰金額多少？這個資料再請會後提供。"],["徐署長榮彬：好。"],["邱委員志偉：不要流於形式或者不要有因地制宜，防疫沒有因地制宜的，高雄的防疫比較強，桃園的防疫比較弱，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，你所提的我會後會請防檢局來檢討，就是要有一致性的部分。"],["邱委員志偉：我已經提過好幾次了，你去現場看看他們是怎麼樣檢查的，有沒有專業？"],["陳部長駿季：我曾經到機場去視察過，這些檢查……"],["邱委員志偉：我沒有去視察，我經過十幾次了，我當然充分配合，也觀察他們的檢查動線、檢查流程，沒有看到一個防檢局的人，一位都沒有，你可以完全委外嗎？你的公權力怎麼執行呢？這個你們好好確實檢討。"],["陳部長駿季：是，我們會來檢討。"],["邱委員志偉：不要在這邊講一講明天就忘了。"],["陳部長駿季：不會。"],["邱委員志偉：徐署長，這個你要用心一點，你要去看一下，然後也要檢討一下為什麼小港不需要，為什麼松山不需要？交給海關就可以了，這個不是理由，你沒有辦法說服我。","另外，部長，你去過日本跟韓國嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：應該常常去，日本、韓國不管是都會區或者一般的鄉村區，流浪狗是不是很少？"],["陳部長駿季：很少。"],["邱委員志偉：為什麼韓國和日本的流浪狗那麼少，你們知道這個原因在哪裡嗎？我先問你，你知不知道？"],["陳部長駿季：我不瞭解。"],["邱委員志偉：他山之石，可以攻錯，別人可以做到那麼好，你應該去學習，出國就是要瞭解其他國家哪一點做得好，我們可以去學習，你們可以跟他們的相關單位、主管單位去請教、去學習或者去交流，他們怎麼把流浪犬貓做好管理。"],["陳部長駿季：就我所瞭解，其實飼主責任是一個非常重要的關鍵，在日本因為有冬天，所以它的流浪狗本身……"],["邱委員志偉：冬天它就不出來了嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：加上臺灣還有零撲殺政策，現在零撲殺的一些抓捕都是用收容所的量。"],["邱委員志偉：他們是對動物、對犬貓非常友善的國度，而能夠有效的做好管理，給犬貓一個友善的環境，又沒有流浪犬貓造成的問題，人家做得很好，我問主管機關人家哪裡做得好，你答不出來代表你們沒有做功課，司長。"],["江司長文全：報告委員，日韓主要有兩個部分，第一個是在飼主責任的要求，這部分的要求是相對澈底的。第二個部分是他們針對不同地區的處理有採取不同的措施。"],["邱委員志偉：他們的經驗我們可以學習嗎？我們是不是要修法、能不能入法呢？"],["江司長文全：目前我們是朝這個方向在做法制上的建構。"],["邱委員志偉：人家做得到，我們沒有做不到的道理，做不到就是我們主管機關沒有做好，法制面不足、執行面不夠，我就不相信韓國能做得到，我們做不到，我們一天到晚還要為了流浪犬貓的問題……我有一個選民是五十幾歲的媽媽，在他下班途中，因為流浪犬這樣衝出來，他反應不及跌倒，人就過世了。這種絕對不是個案，流浪犬貓要好好管理。我再問你，你的報告裡面提到103年到113年10年編列多少錢補助各縣市新建動物收容處所？"],["江司長文全：報告委員，這10年每年平均大概2億。"],["邱委員志偉：總共編列多少錢？"],["江司長文全：目前應該是編到18億。"],["邱委員志偉：照你的報告來看，這是你寫的報告，我照你的報告來問你，你編了20億補助21個縣市，對不對？"],["江司長文全：對。"],["邱委員志偉：目前全國公立收容所總計可收容幾隻犬貓？"],["陳部長駿季：應該1萬1,000隻。"],["邱委員志偉：1萬1,000隻這個數量是正確的，未來從114到119年還有沒有相關的計畫？"],["江司長文全：報告委員，我們目前有提一支中程計畫，院還沒核定。"],["邱委員志偉：中程計畫叫什麼名字？"],["江司長文全：友善動物保護計畫的第二期。"],["邱委員志偉：錯！114年到119年是擴展動物收容量能及場域優化計畫，哪來第二期？你的報告你都不清楚，主管機關在做什麼？你來這裡不是這樣坐在那裡沒事，也是要有所準備，我早上六點半就要出門，為了要質詢你們，看你們有沒有準備，看你們有沒有好好工作，我拿你的報告來問你，你都答不出來，我要怎麼樣對你們有信心嘛？其他剩下的我用書面來問，時間到了，農業部要加油啦！"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員，我們會檢討。"],["邱委員志偉：我剛剛問的問題，我會繼續再追，我希望你們讓國人能夠安心，讓流浪犬貓有一個好的環境，一個友善的環境，把這些問題全部根除、全部解決，日韓做得到，我們沒有理由做不到，加油吧！"],["主席：謝謝。現在作以下宣告：我們中午不休息，延長開會時間。","現在請張嘉郡委員做詢答。"],["張委員嘉郡：（11時42）謝謝主席，我想請部長。"],["主席：陳部長。"],["張委員嘉郡：部長，剛才邱志偉委員在問有關於入境時的審查，本席也接到很多的陳情，只要不是從日本或者是歐美國家回來的都沒有一個卡，所以必須在機場接受檢驗，但是有很多鄉親認為他沒有手提行李，但是他卻必須大排長龍，而且那個隊伍甚至要排高達一個小時。部長，是不是能夠安排有手提行李的才檢查，沒有手提行李的，你讓他在那裡排隊，這樣合理嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：第一個部分，因為人流的關係，我們是針對高風險區才會進到手提行李檢查的部分，你剛才說的從高風險區進來，他沒有手提行李的話……"],["張委員嘉郡：是不是要分流一下？"],["陳部長駿季：後續我們可以用引導員把他分流，這個部分我們會來檢討。"],["張委員嘉郡：對，把他分流，否則他沒有行李，他也等了一個多小時，他問現場人員說我沒有行李，我可以先走嗎？現場人員說不行，你要在這裡排隊，那就不合理嘛！好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：現在應該是不用吧？"],["張委員嘉郡：沒有，現在要，這個禮拜天才有鄉親打電話給我抗議。"],["陳部長駿季：我們會再落實宣導。"],["張委員嘉郡：鄉親才打電話來抗議，而且他們都是企業家，一群企業家去開會，怎麼全部被塞在那個隊伍裡面，部長，這一點……"],["陳部長駿季：如果沒有帶行李的話，我想我們用分流的方式來處理。"],["張委員嘉郡：是，這一點麻煩部長。","另外，部長，最近有很多返鄉從農的青農朋友提出了一些困難點，我也想在這裡跟部長反映，希望部長能夠正面回應、協助解決，現行規定中，農民如果要申請外籍移工通常需要具備農保資格，我手上就有一個非常值得作為檢討範例的案例。我先問一下部長，你歡迎過去等於是勞保，他可能非自願離職之後回到從事農業這樣子的勞動力嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：這個也是我們從事農業的來源之一，就是過往他還年輕，曾經從事其他的工作，是用勞保，後來返鄉務農，我覺得這塊的人也是需要受到照顧的。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以部長是歡迎的，也歡迎他們回來？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["張委員嘉郡：我舉例一下，這個農民當初因為非自願離職遭資遣，符合勞保條例第九條之一規定，被裁減資遣且加保年資滿15年以上的勞工可以繼續參加勞保，直到符合請領老年給付的日期，也就是可以一路加保到50歲，因此他選擇留在勞保體系當中，確保更完整的退休保障。選擇什麼樣子的社會福利，是他身為公民的權益，也是法律給他的保障，他來從農對於我們的農業應該也是有正面的幫助。部長，所以確定他已經回鄉務農多年，這不是個案喔，但是現在因為他是勞保，不是農保，所以他在申請農業移工的時候面臨重重困難。部長，你有可以替他們解套的方案嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：第一個，如果他原來是勞保，可以轉農保，他的權益不會變。"],["張委員嘉郡：他的權益不會變？怎麼不會變？"],["陳部長駿季：我請我們負責勞保的同仁說明。"],["張委員嘉郡：怎麼不會變？"],["王簡任技正東良：跟委員報告，他如果從勞保退保要參加農保，只要符合農保的規定……"],["張委員嘉郡：我現在要跟你講的是，我們政府保障他身為公民的權益，他要選擇哪一種社會福利是他身為公民的權益，保勞保對他下半生的保障，他可能退休一個月可以領一萬多，但他轉農保一個月只能領八千多，你可以理解嗎？他當然希望繼續保勞保啦，這是他身為公民的權益，選擇不同的社會福利是他的權益，你怎麼會說：你可以退保加入農保啊！"],["王簡任技正東良：應該是……"],["張委員嘉郡：你知道我真正要問你的問題嗎？部長，他不了解，叫他去旁邊。"],["王簡任技正東良：跟委員報告……"],["張委員嘉郡：部長，我在問你，他不理解這個問題。"],["陳部長駿季：我了解、我了解。"],["王簡任技正東良：我知道、我知道……"],["張委員嘉郡：你不理解！來，部長，你講。"],["王簡任技正東良：就是說青農可以選擇要繼續在勞保體系，或者加入農保，他可以衡量自身的權益。"],["張委員嘉郡：是，但我問的不是這個問題，我問的是，假設他要申請移工，他必須要有農保，有沒有其他的解套方案？"],["陳部長駿季：以目前的規定是沒有辦法，因為以農業部來講，我們是針對農保，本身從事農業的人，我們會來協助他申請外籍移工……"],["張委員嘉郡：但是你剛才告訴我說你歡迎他們回來啊！你歡迎他們回來務農啊！"],["陳部長駿季：對，但是協助……"],["張委員嘉郡：但是你沒有辦法解決他們的困難呀！"],["陳部長駿季：不具農保資格的部分，如果有銷售農產品的憑證或是購買……"],["張委員嘉郡：這個我知道，就是全年銷售金額25萬以上，或者是投入農資15萬以上，並附佐證。"],["陳部長駿季：對，這個也可以。"],["張委員嘉郡：可是真正的困難就在這裡，部長，真正的困難就是，實際上這套程序從佐證、舉證、審查到核可上，難度明顯高出農保非常多，這一點我相信如果您去問實際執行的農糧署基層單位一定可以了解的很清楚，真的是困難重重。所以我現在要跟部長反映的就是，我們既然歡迎這些勞動力回到農業，你們有沒有辦法去解決他們的問題呢？你這個舉證的流程、審查的流程有沒有辦法簡化或放寬，讓他們可以實際得到我們農業、農糧單位的幫助？"],["陳部長駿季：第一個，如果在程序上能夠簡化，我一定要求農糧署儘快簡化。第二個，你剛說的這些金額是不是有可能放寬，其實以現在來講，他的生產資材一年15萬，也是合理的……"],["張委員嘉郡：很合理，我只是希望他的申請流程一定要簡化。"],["陳部長駿季：流程可以簡化，我相信應該可以簡化。"],["張委員嘉郡：而且你要讓他有多一點的舉證空間，不是說侷限在什麼地方，因為你也知道現在農業要開發票是很困難的。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["張委員嘉郡：是不是有什麼購買、交易的憑證等等……"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我們農民購買憑證應該也是可以的。"],["張委員嘉郡：包括他有沒有實際在務農，其實我知道你們規範這麼嚴格是怕沒有實際在務農的人，利用這個漏洞來請農業移工，但是我希望你們要想辦法去幫助真正需要的人，甚至很多農會都可以舉證這個人是不是有實際在從事農業。是不是能夠放寬這個舉證的條件，讓他有多一點的舉證空間？而不是說一定要什麼、什麼，等於是限制了很多人，他們都沒有辦法受到農業部的幫助。"],["陳部長駿季：好，謝謝委員的提醒，我想這個部分，針對整個流程，包括舉證的流程、舉證的單據，看要怎麼樣簡化，我們會請農糧署做檢討，重新規定。"],["張委員嘉郡：好，麻煩部長了，我覺得這個對於我們現在面臨的農業問題，是一個很好的解決辦法，因為他們要回來，我們都很高興，這些比較年輕的勞動力願意回來投身農業，等於是為我們的農業注入一股活水，但是他們面臨的問題比過去這些傳統務農的老農更多元、更不一樣。","另外一個我必須要講的是，「友善環境植物保護資材補助」這個政策其實非常受歡迎，等於是補助有機肥料，補助農民減少化學農藥的使用，轉而採用生物農藥，補助的金額是購買憑證所列金額的二分之一，申請是從年初到經費用完。今年的預算編列多少您知道嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：大概6,500萬左右。"],["張委員嘉郡：對，6,469萬，這是從農業發展基金所提撥的，它雖然是依各縣市的農業現況來分配，但是雲林也拿到了一個算是滿高的配比，21%的……"],["陳部長駿季：對，一千三百多萬。"],["張委員嘉郡：對，一個滿高的配比，但是仍然沒有辦法滿足實際的需求，通常一開放，1月就用完了、申請完了，所以這一點我必須要跟部長提醒，因為農友們之間會互相交流，在其他的縣市，像桃園、南投，申請的難度就比較低，因為他們的作物不夠多元，比較單一，所以他們可能使用友善環境植物保護的資材比較少。這部分是不是有辦法重新調配，對於需求比較低的地方，它的比例可以釋放出來？還是整體的預算規模太小，要不要增加這個預算規模呢？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，第一個，這個預算規模一年大概是六千多萬左右，以去年來講，如果不夠我們還會去爭取二備金。不過今年就比較困難，因為今年在預算刪減的時候，我們公務撥補基金被刪了9,000萬，雖然刪得很少……"],["張委員嘉郡：這個是一點點而已。"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，不對，因為刪了以後，不能動二備金……"],["張委員嘉郡：我跟部長講，假設你真的有需求，你提出來，本委員會不會不支持，只要是地方真正的需求……"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，這個我一定要跟委員報告，其他的經費刪減是一回事，但是你刪了公務撥補基金，雖然說刪了九千萬，很少，但是一旦刪的話，依規定就不能動用二備金。"],["張委員嘉郡：這個我們大家再來討論，我先跟部長講，針對友善植物環境保護的資材補助，這個預算你可不可以考慮下年度編高一點？"],["陳部長駿季：對，今年是沒辦法，但是下個年度我們希望能夠編高……"],["張委員嘉郡：今年沒辦法，下個年度。"],["陳部長駿季：第二個部分，就誠如委員講的，不同縣市可能在時間上、在種類上，像雲林是比較多樣化，所以我也要求防檢署這邊分兩次，第二次的時候如果其他的縣市……"],["張委員嘉郡：沒有用完的。"],["陳部長駿季：我們就做調整，大概用這種方式做調整。"],["張委員嘉郡：彈性一點，因為真的有一些縣市的作物比較單一，它用不上，這個等於是用在真正有需要的地方。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們儘可能做調度，從不同縣市做調度。"],["張委員嘉郡：對，謝謝部長。最後，時間也有限，這一次在特別預算4,100億裡面，本來農業部可以分到180億，後來是從880億增加到930億，那農業部有沒有增加呢？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我們農業部還是維持180億。"],["張委員嘉郡：這會不會太少了？我想部長一定要再極力爭取多一點。"],["陳部長駿季：第一個，最後的關稅還沒有確定，萬一關稅定案以後比現在的衝擊還大的時候，我們一定會再向行政院爭取經費。"],["張委員嘉郡：而且目前本席聽到，就是上次我們去關心臺灣鯛，我們不是說危機應該可以化為轉機嗎？結果現在中盤商都出去壓低漁民的價格欸！"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，最近池邊價就已經上漲了2塊到5塊啦！"],["張委員嘉郡：沒有，昨天好幾個養殖班都來跟我講，直接產地價下殺10元。"],["陳部長駿季：沒關係，如果有產銷班的資訊，你可以給我們，我們可以來處理，因為整體的……"],["張委員嘉郡：好，對啊！太可惡了，中盤商下去就直接給他殺10塊耶！"],["陳部長駿季：這可能是有特定的產銷班去壓價啦！"],["張委員嘉郡：對啊，太可惡了！"],["陳部長駿季：這個部分變成要個案去處理啦！"],["張委員嘉郡：好，那這一點也要拜託部長。"],["陳部長駿季：如果有資料的話給我們，我們來處理。"],["張委員嘉郡：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。我們現在請郭昱晴委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":242,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-11","speakers":["謝衣鳯","洪孟楷","蘇巧慧","郭昱晴","羅廷瑋","李坤城","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","呂玉玲","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","張嘉郡","葉元之","蔡易餘","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","邱議瑩","張雅琳","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":173,"meetingDate":["2025-04-30"],"gazette_id":"1144501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144501_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；二、本院委員呂玉\n玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案；三、本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保\n護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案；四、本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保\n護法第十條條文修正草案」案；五、本院委員劉建國等 16 人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草\n案」案；六、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案；七、本\n院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」\n案；八、本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；九、本院委員鄭天財\nSra Kacaw 等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案；十、本院委員李坤城等\n22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；十一、本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法\n部分條文修正草案」案；十二、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；\n十三、本院委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；十四、本院委員郭昱晴\n等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；十五、本院委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「動物保護\n法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案；十六、本院委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「動物保\n護法第五條、第二十條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案；十七、本院委員林思銘等18人擬具「動\n物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；十八、本院委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正\n草案」案；十九、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二條及第五條條文修正草案」案；二\n十、本院委員游顥等23人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案；二十一、本院委\n員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案；二十二、本院委員葉元之等17人擬\n具「動物保護法增訂第十四條之三條文草案」案；二十三、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保\n護法第二十五條條文修正草案」案；二十四、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第二十五\n條之二條文修正草案」案；二十五、本院委員蘇巧慧等 17 人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草\n案」案；二十六、本院委員吳沛憶等17 人擬具「動物保護法第二十二條之四條文修正草案」案\n（詢答）","agenda_id":"1144501_00004"}}}