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Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n十、本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十一、本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十二、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十三、本院委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、本院委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、本院委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十六、本院委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「動物保護法第五條、第二十條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十七、本院委員林思銘等18人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、本院委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十九、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二條及第五條條文修正草案」案。\n二十、本院委員游顥等23人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法增訂第十四條之三條文草案」案。\n二十三、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、本院委員蘇巧慧等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十六、本院委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「動物保護法第二十二條之四條文修正草案」案。（詢答）\n【4月30日及5月1日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-04-30","start_time":"2025-04-30T12:05:15+08:00","end_time":"2025-04-30T12:13:20+08:00","duration":485,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-3-19-11"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"160807","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160807","tool":"pyannote","id":"160807-pyannote"},"job_id":"4UbsDh3mqMqu6TST","queued_at":"2025-05-01 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00:00:40,951\n部長好部長很多的委員對這個凍保警察都非常非常的支持包括我也是那我想在這個警察這兩字用在這邊對大家來說尤其是內政部其實他們是有蠻多的疑慮的那所以他們有一些自己的建議但我要講就是說其實基本上我們遇到的就是不管是你所謂的凍檢員或是凍保官\n\n3\n00:00:41,892 --> 00:01:09,565\n其實有很多東西我們都希望在文字上能夠去修正但主要是希望能夠賦予更多的公權力去執法那我們看到勞檢員勞動檢查法你不依勞動檢查法去規避甚至是拒絕做勞動檢查有3到15萬的一個罰款那凍檢的部分我們希望能夠給予更多的一些武器跟利器但是你也有提到一個很重要的就是沒有人力\n\n4\n00:01:10,646 --> 00:01:18,523\n那我想問一下你知道我們現在動保事件多半都是怎麼樣去查獲的嗎最一開始\n\n5\n00:01:19,906 --> 00:01:47,527\n這個通常都是民眾的一個檢舉最大宗的都是檢舉不管我們最近台中其實也蠻多有所謂的棄養路邊丟狗甚至有最近發生的就是捕犬貓石虎來做食用販賣這些東西多半有可能一開始都是透過檢舉那我們我想要一個觀點跟你分享你知道現在警察有疫警\n\n6\n00:01:48,388 --> 00:01:58,375\n有民防你知道嗎知道透過一些訓練成為一個類似輔助志工的一個隊伍但是動保呢\n\n7\n00:01:59,349 --> 00:02:20,154\n有沒有這樣子透過專業的一個訓練把它納入當然有多半的都是所謂的公民團體他們在幫忙協助動保團體那我們非常感謝他們的一個協助但是能不能給予更多的資源先讓他們能夠加入這些動保的行列的時候有更多的保障\n\n8\n00:02:20,994 --> 00:02:43,773\n甚至有更多的一些資源給他們去用後續依序的慢慢在往我們的所謂的賦予更多的一個權力有所謂的洞檢員那洞檢員可能還會搭配更多的一些志工隊甚至這些志工隊不只是所謂的公民團體我們自己也有所謂的類似屬於洞堡的意境洞堡的民房\n\n9\n00:02:44,494 --> 00:02:58,070\n明智不一定是要用這樣子但是他所賦予的一些相關的專業訓練資源我覺得這個是農業部可以給予更多的一個幫助您覺得這樣子的觀念可以嗎我跟你們報告其實現在就有義務的動物保護的檢查人員\n\n10\n00:03:00,753 --> 00:03:22,555\n義務的部分那也是我們的但是人力就我所知道並不是非常現在是比較少所以我想這個區塊是可以好好的去加強來協助因為現在全台灣的凍檢人員如果沒有記錯的話大概330幾個而已其實並不多啦所以我們整體人力是不足的那所以幾乎都是靠這些所謂的凍保團體公民團體在幫忙\n\n11\n00:03:23,976 --> 00:03:42,285\n所以勞動部要怎麼樣加強人力然後賦予更多的一些權力我覺得這是各個要去做一個探討然後多頭馬車去努力去執行的再來上次我有跟你提到農業部支持禁止夜市活體動物作為遊戲贈品希望設置落日條款進行一定時間的一個過渡\n\n12\n00:03:43,666 --> 00:03:59,788\n那本席也可以理解設置合理的緩衝期但是想進一步請教一下落日條款設計不能只有形式的過場真正要有助於政策的一個落實請問農業部合理的落日期間是多久半年一年還是兩年三年\n\n13\n00:04:00,849 --> 00:04:24,346\n這個部分我們必須要再跟產業因為這個議題在產業溝通的時候有兩極化的反應所以我們才會說在法裡面希望有一個能夠授權中央主管機關能夠指定公告的一個品項有沒有我希望能夠加強溝通趕快去訂定這一方面的一個期程但是我要提醒的是落日的期間是不是也會同步要求夜市\n\n14\n00:04:25,346 --> 00:04:51,084\n業者改善動物飼養環境進行輔導落日的期間是否農業部可以建立定期的稽查違規的處理的一個配套我本席認為如果有這樣子的落日條款我們可以接受但是就應該要有明確的落日時間表明確的一個輔導機制協助業者轉型甚至是轉換非動物性商品的一個獎品我想這個落日\n\n15\n00:04:52,285 --> 00:05:17,846\n後續有項的違規才加重法但是中間怎麼輔導這個設計的方案農業部是否能夠承諾在修法協商的時候也補充這個具體的方案我想我們在後續條文協商的時候我們一定會強化這個區塊特別是當如果說在討論的時候能夠授權狀況主管機關能夠公告不受這個禁止影響的部分也要有個弱智條款\n\n16\n00:05:18,266 --> 00:05:40,592\n在落日的過程中也要達到所謂的友善動物的這樣子的一個精神納在這個區塊裡面不是說你排除了以後就不管它了這個部分我想我們會來積極來處理這個部分我要麻煩你們要積極因為我們點出這些問題那實驗動物來源的缺乏管理我們一直在講實驗動物的這些動保權這個部分現在台灣有192個實驗動物機構每年使用的實驗動物數量高達\n\n17\n00:05:48,635 --> 00:06:01,140\n116萬隻還包含這個禽蛋魚胚胚胎等未納入統計的一個動物這代表台灣科學研究中使用動物的規模龐大持續的成長這些動物的來源主要如下國內的繁殖場\n\n18\n00:06:04,602 --> 00:06:28,717\n74.28%那自行繁殖的有13.16%在應用的是5.18%那市場或寵物店購買的是3.03%其他的有1.92%野外捕捉的是0.93%然後國外進口是0.82%學術交流是0.68%也就是說超過七成的實驗動物啊來自於國內的繁殖場而繁殖場的管理狀況如果不佳\n\n19\n00:06:29,457 --> 00:06:51,017\n也會影響到實驗動物的一個健康狀態以及實驗結果的可信度所以帶到這些數字我希望你們能夠重視相關的國內繁殖場農業部有沒有訂定管理的標準比方說繁殖設置的設立標準動物檢查的疾病篩檢要求以及遺傳背景的登錄管理等等有沒有\n\n20\n00:06:52,118 --> 00:07:06,595\n現在的法並沒有做它的修正不過我們用現行法去做授權的執法來處理這個繁殖跟相關的飼養的這些辦法我想動保法超過20年了\n\n21\n00:07:07,616 --> 00:07:27,893\n農業部都沒有訂出實驗動物來源管理辦法那這個部分我希望我不是要究責但我希望我們要探討這個問題因為我剛剛已經講了它的健康如果它沒有設立得很好它就會影響到這些實驗動物的健康就會影響到實驗的結果我們希望能夠更加照顧也希望實驗結果有所成效\n\n22\n00:07:28,453 --> 00:07:44,415\n所以這個東西是有必要的我希望農業部能夠好好的在這一次修法的當中能夠也把這個實驗動物來源管理辦法的草案能夠訂定出來部長可以承諾嗎我想實驗動物本身因為它現在的機制就有它有一個實驗動物的一個審查辦法\n\n23\n00:07:45,396 --> 00:08:01,038\n他一定是因為做實驗一定是非常重視這些動物的來源不足才會點出這個問題我希望你能夠承諾會後我會繼續追我想這個部分也許可以在調溫討論的時候我們再來討論看有什麼樣的方式能夠達到我們的意見想法\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5731\t6736\t好 謝謝昭偉 有請部長陳部長\n15711\t40951\t部長好部長很多的委員對這個凍保警察都非常非常的支持包括我也是那我想在這個警察這兩字用在這邊對大家來說尤其是內政部其實他們是有蠻多的疑慮的那所以他們有一些自己的建議但我要講就是說其實基本上我們遇到的就是不管是你所謂的凍檢員或是凍保官\n41892\t69565\t其實有很多東西我們都希望在文字上能夠去修正但主要是希望能夠賦予更多的公權力去執法那我們看到勞檢員勞動檢查法你不依勞動檢查法去規避甚至是拒絕做勞動檢查有3到15萬的一個罰款那凍檢的部分我們希望能夠給予更多的一些武器跟利器但是你也有提到一個很重要的就是沒有人力\n70646\t78523\t那我想問一下你知道我們現在動保事件多半都是怎麼樣去查獲的嗎最一開始\n79906\t107527\t這個通常都是民眾的一個檢舉最大宗的都是檢舉不管我們最近台中其實也蠻多有所謂的棄養路邊丟狗甚至有最近發生的就是捕犬貓石虎來做食用販賣這些東西多半有可能一開始都是透過檢舉那我們我想要一個觀點跟你分享你知道現在警察有疫警\n108388\t118375\t有民防你知道嗎知道透過一些訓練成為一個類似輔助志工的一個隊伍但是動保呢\n119349\t140154\t有沒有這樣子透過專業的一個訓練把它納入當然有多半的都是所謂的公民團體他們在幫忙協助動保團體那我們非常感謝他們的一個協助但是能不能給予更多的資源先讓他們能夠加入這些動保的行列的時候有更多的保障\n140994\t163773\t甚至有更多的一些資源給他們去用後續依序的慢慢在往我們的所謂的賦予更多的一個權力有所謂的洞檢員那洞檢員可能還會搭配更多的一些志工隊甚至這些志工隊不只是所謂的公民團體我們自己也有所謂的類似屬於洞堡的意境洞堡的民房\n164494\t178070\t明智不一定是要用這樣子但是他所賦予的一些相關的專業訓練資源我覺得這個是農業部可以給予更多的一個幫助您覺得這樣子的觀念可以嗎我跟你們報告其實現在就有義務的動物保護的檢查人員\n180753\t202555\t義務的部分那也是我們的但是人力就我所知道並不是非常現在是比較少所以我想這個區塊是可以好好的去加強來協助因為現在全台灣的凍檢人員如果沒有記錯的話大概330幾個而已其實並不多啦所以我們整體人力是不足的那所以幾乎都是靠這些所謂的凍保團體公民團體在幫忙\n203976\t222285\t所以勞動部要怎麼樣加強人力然後賦予更多的一些權力我覺得這是各個要去做一個探討然後多頭馬車去努力去執行的再來上次我有跟你提到農業部支持禁止夜市活體動物作為遊戲贈品希望設置落日條款進行一定時間的一個過渡\n223666\t239788\t那本席也可以理解設置合理的緩衝期但是想進一步請教一下落日條款設計不能只有形式的過場真正要有助於政策的一個落實請問農業部合理的落日期間是多久半年 一年 還是兩年 三年\n240849\t264346\t這個部分我們必須要再跟產業 因為這個議題在產業溝通的時候有兩極化的反應所以我們才會說在法裡面希望有一個能夠授權中央主管機關能夠指定公告的一個品項有沒有我希望能夠加強溝通趕快去訂定這一方面的一個期程但是我要提醒的是落日的期間是不是也會同步要求夜市\n265346\t291084\t業者改善動物飼養環境進行輔導落日的期間是否農業部可以建立定期的稽查違規的處理的一個配套我本席認為如果有這樣子的落日條款我們可以接受但是就應該要有明確的落日時間表明確的一個輔導機制協助業者轉型甚至是轉換非動物性商品的一個獎品我想這個落日\n292285\t317846\t後續有項的違規才加重法但是中間怎麼輔導這個設計的方案農業部是否能夠承諾在修法協商的時候也補充這個具體的方案我想我們在後續條文協商的時候我們一定會強化這個區塊特別是當如果說在討論的時候能夠授權狀況主管機關能夠公告不受這個禁止影響的部分也要有個弱智條款\n318266\t340592\t在落日的過程中也要達到所謂的友善動物的這樣子的一個精神納在這個區塊裡面不是說你排除了以後就不管它了這個部分我想我們會來積極來處理這個部分我要麻煩你們要積極因為我們點出這些問題那實驗動物來源的缺乏管理我們一直在講實驗動物的這些動保權這個部分現在台灣有192個實驗動物機構每年使用的實驗動物數量高達\n348635\t361140\t116萬隻還包含這個禽蛋魚胚胚胎等未納入統計的一個動物這代表台灣科學研究中使用動物的規模龐大持續的成長這些動物的來源主要如下國內的繁殖場\n364602\t388717\t74.28%那自行繁殖的有13.16%在應用的是5.18%那市場或寵物店購買的是3.03%其他的有1.92%野外捕捉的是0.93%然後國外進口是0.82%學術交流是0.68%也就是說超過七成的實驗動物啊來自於國內的繁殖場而繁殖場的管理狀況如果不佳\n389457\t411017\t也會影響到實驗動物的一個健康狀態以及實驗結果的可信度所以帶到這些數字我希望你們能夠重視相關的國內繁殖場農業部有沒有訂定管理的標準比方說繁殖設置的設立標準動物檢查的疾病篩檢要求以及遺傳背景的登錄管理等等有沒有\n412118\t426595\t現在的法並沒有做它的修正不過我們用現行法去做授權的執法來處理這個繁殖跟相關的飼養的這些辦法我想動保法超過20年了\n427616\t447893\t農業部都沒有訂出實驗動物來源管理辦法那這個部分我希望我不是要究責但我希望我們要探討這個問題因為我剛剛已經講了它的健康如果它沒有設立得很好它就會影響到這些實驗動物的健康就會影響到實驗的結果我們希望能夠更加照顧也希望實驗結果有所成效\n448453\t464415\t所以這個東西是有必要的我希望農業部能夠好好的在這一次修法的當中能夠也把這個實驗動物來源管理辦法的草案能夠訂定出來部長可以承諾嗎我想實驗動物本身因為它現在的機制就有它有一個實驗動物的一個審查辦法\n465396\t481038\t他一定是因為做實驗一定是非常重視這些動物的來源不足才會點出這個問題我希望你能夠承諾會後我會繼續追我想這個部分也許可以在調溫討論的時候我們再來討論看有什麼樣的方式能夠達到我們的意見想法\n","txt":"好 謝謝昭偉 有請部長陳部長\n部長好部長很多的委員對這個凍保警察都非常非常的支持包括我也是那我想在這個警察這兩字用在這邊對大家來說尤其是內政部其實他們是有蠻多的疑慮的那所以他們有一些自己的建議但我要講就是說其實基本上我們遇到的就是不管是你所謂的凍檢員或是凍保官\n其實有很多東西我們都希望在文字上能夠去修正但主要是希望能夠賦予更多的公權力去執法那我們看到勞檢員勞動檢查法你不依勞動檢查法去規避甚至是拒絕做勞動檢查有3到15萬的一個罰款那凍檢的部分我們希望能夠給予更多的一些武器跟利器但是你也有提到一個很重要的就是沒有人力\n那我想問一下你知道我們現在動保事件多半都是怎麼樣去查獲的嗎最一開始\n這個通常都是民眾的一個檢舉最大宗的都是檢舉不管我們最近台中其實也蠻多有所謂的棄養路邊丟狗甚至有最近發生的就是捕犬貓石虎來做食用販賣這些東西多半有可能一開始都是透過檢舉那我們我想要一個觀點跟你分享你知道現在警察有疫警\n有民防你知道嗎知道透過一些訓練成為一個類似輔助志工的一個隊伍但是動保呢\n有沒有這樣子透過專業的一個訓練把它納入當然有多半的都是所謂的公民團體他們在幫忙協助動保團體那我們非常感謝他們的一個協助但是能不能給予更多的資源先讓他們能夠加入這些動保的行列的時候有更多的保障\n甚至有更多的一些資源給他們去用後續依序的慢慢在往我們的所謂的賦予更多的一個權力有所謂的洞檢員那洞檢員可能還會搭配更多的一些志工隊甚至這些志工隊不只是所謂的公民團體我們自己也有所謂的類似屬於洞堡的意境洞堡的民房\n明智不一定是要用這樣子但是他所賦予的一些相關的專業訓練資源我覺得這個是農業部可以給予更多的一個幫助您覺得這樣子的觀念可以嗎我跟你們報告其實現在就有義務的動物保護的檢查人員\n義務的部分那也是我們的但是人力就我所知道並不是非常現在是比較少所以我想這個區塊是可以好好的去加強來協助因為現在全台灣的凍檢人員如果沒有記錯的話大概330幾個而已其實並不多啦所以我們整體人力是不足的那所以幾乎都是靠這些所謂的凍保團體公民團體在幫忙\n所以勞動部要怎麼樣加強人力然後賦予更多的一些權力我覺得這是各個要去做一個探討然後多頭馬車去努力去執行的再來上次我有跟你提到農業部支持禁止夜市活體動物作為遊戲贈品希望設置落日條款進行一定時間的一個過渡\n那本席也可以理解設置合理的緩衝期但是想進一步請教一下落日條款設計不能只有形式的過場真正要有助於政策的一個落實請問農業部合理的落日期間是多久半年 一年 還是兩年 三年\n這個部分我們必須要再跟產業 因為這個議題在產業溝通的時候有兩極化的反應所以我們才會說在法裡面希望有一個能夠授權中央主管機關能夠指定公告的一個品項有沒有我希望能夠加強溝通趕快去訂定這一方面的一個期程但是我要提醒的是落日的期間是不是也會同步要求夜市\n業者改善動物飼養環境進行輔導落日的期間是否農業部可以建立定期的稽查違規的處理的一個配套我本席認為如果有這樣子的落日條款我們可以接受但是就應該要有明確的落日時間表明確的一個輔導機制協助業者轉型甚至是轉換非動物性商品的一個獎品我想這個落日\n後續有項的違規才加重法但是中間怎麼輔導這個設計的方案農業部是否能夠承諾在修法協商的時候也補充這個具體的方案我想我們在後續條文協商的時候我們一定會強化這個區塊特別是當如果說在討論的時候能夠授權狀況主管機關能夠公告不受這個禁止影響的部分也要有個弱智條款\n在落日的過程中也要達到所謂的友善動物的這樣子的一個精神納在這個區塊裡面不是說你排除了以後就不管它了這個部分我想我們會來積極來處理這個部分我要麻煩你們要積極因為我們點出這些問題那實驗動物來源的缺乏管理我們一直在講實驗動物的這些動保權這個部分現在台灣有192個實驗動物機構每年使用的實驗動物數量高達\n116萬隻還包含這個禽蛋魚胚胚胎等未納入統計的一個動物這代表台灣科學研究中使用動物的規模龐大持續的成長這些動物的來源主要如下國內的繁殖場\n74.28%那自行繁殖的有13.16%在應用的是5.18%那市場或寵物店購買的是3.03%其他的有1.92%野外捕捉的是0.93%然後國外進口是0.82%學術交流是0.68%也就是說超過七成的實驗動物啊來自於國內的繁殖場而繁殖場的管理狀況如果不佳\n也會影響到實驗動物的一個健康狀態以及實驗結果的可信度所以帶到這些數字我希望你們能夠重視相關的國內繁殖場農業部有沒有訂定管理的標準比方說繁殖設置的設立標準動物檢查的疾病篩檢要求以及遺傳背景的登錄管理等等有沒有\n現在的法並沒有做它的修正不過我們用現行法去做授權的執法來處理這個繁殖跟相關的飼養的這些辦法我想動保法超過20年了\n農業部都沒有訂出實驗動物來源管理辦法那這個部分我希望我不是要究責但我希望我們要探討這個問題因為我剛剛已經講了它的健康如果它沒有設立得很好它就會影響到這些實驗動物的健康就會影響到實驗的結果我們希望能夠更加照顧也希望實驗結果有所成效\n所以這個東西是有必要的我希望農業部能夠好好的在這一次修法的當中能夠也把這個實驗動物來源管理辦法的草案能夠訂定出來部長可以承諾嗎我想實驗動物本身因為它現在的機制就有它有一個實驗動物的一個審查辦法\n他一定是因為做實驗一定是非常重視這些動物的來源不足才會點出這個問題我希望你能夠承諾會後我會繼續追我想這個部分也許可以在調溫討論的時候我們再來討論看有什麼樣的方式能夠達到我們的意見想法\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.731 --> 00:06.736\n好謝謝昭偉有請部長陳部長\n\n00:15.711 --> 00:40.951\n部長好部長很多的委員對這個凍保警察都非常非常的支持包括我也是那我想在這個警察這兩字用在這邊對大家來說尤其是內政部其實他們是有蠻多的疑慮的那所以他們有一些自己的建議但我要講就是說其實基本上我們遇到的就是不管是你所謂的凍檢員或是凍保官\n\n00:41.892 --> 01:09.565\n其實有很多東西我們都希望在文字上能夠去修正但主要是希望能夠賦予更多的公權力去執法那我們看到勞檢員勞動檢查法你不依勞動檢查法去規避甚至是拒絕做勞動檢查有3到15萬的一個罰款那凍檢的部分我們希望能夠給予更多的一些武器跟利器但是你也有提到一個很重要的就是沒有人力\n\n01:10.646 --> 01:18.523\n那我想問一下你知道我們現在動保事件多半都是怎麼樣去查獲的嗎最一開始\n\n01:19.906 --> 01:47.527\n這個通常都是民眾的一個檢舉最大宗的都是檢舉不管我們最近台中其實也蠻多有所謂的棄養路邊丟狗甚至有最近發生的就是捕犬貓石虎來做食用販賣這些東西多半有可能一開始都是透過檢舉那我們我想要一個觀點跟你分享你知道現在警察有疫警\n\n01:48.388 --> 01:58.375\n有民防你知道嗎知道透過一些訓練成為一個類似輔助志工的一個隊伍但是動保呢\n\n01:59.349 --> 02:20.154\n有沒有這樣子透過專業的一個訓練把它納入當然有多半的都是所謂的公民團體他們在幫忙協助動保團體那我們非常感謝他們的一個協助但是能不能給予更多的資源先讓他們能夠加入這些動保的行列的時候有更多的保障\n\n02:20.994 --> 02:43.773\n甚至有更多的一些資源給他們去用後續依序的慢慢在往我們的所謂的賦予更多的一個權力有所謂的洞檢員那洞檢員可能還會搭配更多的一些志工隊甚至這些志工隊不只是所謂的公民團體我們自己也有所謂的類似屬於洞堡的意境洞堡的民房\n\n02:44.494 --> 02:58.070\n明智不一定是要用這樣子但是他所賦予的一些相關的專業訓練資源我覺得這個是農業部可以給予更多的一個幫助您覺得這樣子的觀念可以嗎我跟你們報告其實現在就有義務的動物保護的檢查人員\n\n03:00.753 --> 03:22.555\n義務的部分那也是我們的但是人力就我所知道並不是非常現在是比較少所以我想這個區塊是可以好好的去加強來協助因為現在全台灣的凍檢人員如果沒有記錯的話大概330幾個而已其實並不多啦所以我們整體人力是不足的那所以幾乎都是靠這些所謂的凍保團體公民團體在幫忙\n\n03:23.976 --> 03:42.285\n所以勞動部要怎麼樣加強人力然後賦予更多的一些權力我覺得這是各個要去做一個探討然後多頭馬車去努力去執行的再來上次我有跟你提到農業部支持禁止夜市活體動物作為遊戲贈品希望設置落日條款進行一定時間的一個過渡\n\n03:43.666 --> 03:59.788\n那本席也可以理解設置合理的緩衝期但是想進一步請教一下落日條款設計不能只有形式的過場真正要有助於政策的一個落實請問農業部合理的落日期間是多久半年一年還是兩年三年\n\n04:00.849 --> 04:24.346\n這個部分我們必須要再跟產業因為這個議題在產業溝通的時候有兩極化的反應所以我們才會說在法裡面希望有一個能夠授權中央主管機關能夠指定公告的一個品項有沒有我希望能夠加強溝通趕快去訂定這一方面的一個期程但是我要提醒的是落日的期間是不是也會同步要求夜市\n\n04:25.346 --> 04:51.084\n業者改善動物飼養環境進行輔導落日的期間是否農業部可以建立定期的稽查違規的處理的一個配套我本席認為如果有這樣子的落日條款我們可以接受但是就應該要有明確的落日時間表明確的一個輔導機制協助業者轉型甚至是轉換非動物性商品的一個獎品我想這個落日\n\n04:52.285 --> 05:17.846\n後續有項的違規才加重法但是中間怎麼輔導這個設計的方案農業部是否能夠承諾在修法協商的時候也補充這個具體的方案我想我們在後續條文協商的時候我們一定會強化這個區塊特別是當如果說在討論的時候能夠授權狀況主管機關能夠公告不受這個禁止影響的部分也要有個弱智條款\n\n05:18.266 --> 05:40.592\n在落日的過程中也要達到所謂的友善動物的這樣子的一個精神納在這個區塊裡面不是說你排除了以後就不管它了這個部分我想我們會來積極來處理這個部分我要麻煩你們要積極因為我們點出這些問題那實驗動物來源的缺乏管理我們一直在講實驗動物的這些動保權這個部分現在台灣有192個實驗動物機構每年使用的實驗動物數量高達\n\n05:48.635 --> 06:01.140\n116萬隻還包含這個禽蛋魚胚胚胎等未納入統計的一個動物這代表台灣科學研究中使用動物的規模龐大持續的成長這些動物的來源主要如下國內的繁殖場\n\n06:04.602 --> 06:28.717\n74.28%那自行繁殖的有13.16%在應用的是5.18%那市場或寵物店購買的是3.03%其他的有1.92%野外捕捉的是0.93%然後國外進口是0.82%學術交流是0.68%也就是說超過七成的實驗動物啊來自於國內的繁殖場而繁殖場的管理狀況如果不佳\n\n06:29.457 --> 06:51.017\n也會影響到實驗動物的一個健康狀態以及實驗結果的可信度所以帶到這些數字我希望你們能夠重視相關的國內繁殖場農業部有沒有訂定管理的標準比方說繁殖設置的設立標準動物檢查的疾病篩檢要求以及遺傳背景的登錄管理等等有沒有\n\n06:52.118 --> 07:06.595\n現在的法並沒有做它的修正不過我們用現行法去做授權的執法來處理這個繁殖跟相關的飼養的這些辦法我想動保法超過20年了\n\n07:07.616 --> 07:27.893\n農業部都沒有訂出實驗動物來源管理辦法那這個部分我希望我不是要究責但我希望我們要探討這個問題因為我剛剛已經講了它的健康如果它沒有設立得很好它就會影響到這些實驗動物的健康就會影響到實驗的結果我們希望能夠更加照顧也希望實驗結果有所成效\n\n07:28.453 --> 07:44.415\n所以這個東西是有必要的我希望農業部能夠好好的在這一次修法的當中能夠也把這個實驗動物來源管理辦法的草案能夠訂定出來部長可以承諾嗎我想實驗動物本身因為它現在的機制就有它有一個實驗動物的一個審查辦法\n\n07:45.396 --> 08:01.038\n他一定是因為做實驗一定是非常重視這些動物的來源不足才會點出這個問題我希望你能夠承諾會後我會繼續追我想這個部分也許可以在調溫討論的時候我們再來討論看有什麼樣的方式能夠達到我們的意見想法\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.731,"end":6.736,"text":"好 謝謝昭偉 有請部長陳部長"},{"start":15.711,"end":40.951,"text":"部長好部長很多的委員對這個凍保警察都非常非常的支持包括我也是那我想在這個警察這兩字用在這邊對大家來說尤其是內政部其實他們是有蠻多的疑慮的那所以他們有一些自己的建議但我要講就是說其實基本上我們遇到的就是不管是你所謂的凍檢員或是凍保官"},{"start":41.892,"end":69.565,"text":"其實有很多東西我們都希望在文字上能夠去修正但主要是希望能夠賦予更多的公權力去執法那我們看到勞檢員勞動檢查法你不依勞動檢查法去規避甚至是拒絕做勞動檢查有3到15萬的一個罰款那凍檢的部分我們希望能夠給予更多的一些武器跟利器但是你也有提到一個很重要的就是沒有人力"},{"start":70.646,"end":78.523,"text":"那我想問一下你知道我們現在動保事件多半都是怎麼樣去查獲的嗎最一開始"},{"start":79.906,"end":107.527,"text":"這個通常都是民眾的一個檢舉最大宗的都是檢舉不管我們最近台中其實也蠻多有所謂的棄養路邊丟狗甚至有最近發生的就是捕犬貓石虎來做食用販賣這些東西多半有可能一開始都是透過檢舉那我們我想要一個觀點跟你分享你知道現在警察有疫警"},{"start":108.388,"end":118.375,"text":"有民防你知道嗎知道透過一些訓練成為一個類似輔助志工的一個隊伍但是動保呢"},{"start":119.349,"end":140.154,"text":"有沒有這樣子透過專業的一個訓練把它納入當然有多半的都是所謂的公民團體他們在幫忙協助動保團體那我們非常感謝他們的一個協助但是能不能給予更多的資源先讓他們能夠加入這些動保的行列的時候有更多的保障"},{"start":140.994,"end":163.773,"text":"甚至有更多的一些資源給他們去用後續依序的慢慢在往我們的所謂的賦予更多的一個權力有所謂的洞檢員那洞檢員可能還會搭配更多的一些志工隊甚至這些志工隊不只是所謂的公民團體我們自己也有所謂的類似屬於洞堡的意境洞堡的民房"},{"start":164.494,"end":178.07,"text":"明智不一定是要用這樣子但是他所賦予的一些相關的專業訓練資源我覺得這個是農業部可以給予更多的一個幫助您覺得這樣子的觀念可以嗎我跟你們報告其實現在就有義務的動物保護的檢查人員"},{"start":180.753,"end":202.555,"text":"義務的部分那也是我們的但是人力就我所知道並不是非常現在是比較少所以我想這個區塊是可以好好的去加強來協助因為現在全台灣的凍檢人員如果沒有記錯的話大概330幾個而已其實並不多啦所以我們整體人力是不足的那所以幾乎都是靠這些所謂的凍保團體公民團體在幫忙"},{"start":203.976,"end":222.285,"text":"所以勞動部要怎麼樣加強人力然後賦予更多的一些權力我覺得這是各個要去做一個探討然後多頭馬車去努力去執行的再來上次我有跟你提到農業部支持禁止夜市活體動物作為遊戲贈品希望設置落日條款進行一定時間的一個過渡"},{"start":223.666,"end":239.788,"text":"那本席也可以理解設置合理的緩衝期但是想進一步請教一下落日條款設計不能只有形式的過場真正要有助於政策的一個落實請問農業部合理的落日期間是多久半年 一年 還是兩年 三年"},{"start":240.849,"end":264.346,"text":"這個部分我們必須要再跟產業 因為這個議題在產業溝通的時候有兩極化的反應所以我們才會說在法裡面希望有一個能夠授權中央主管機關能夠指定公告的一個品項有沒有我希望能夠加強溝通趕快去訂定這一方面的一個期程但是我要提醒的是落日的期間是不是也會同步要求夜市"},{"start":265.346,"end":291.084,"text":"業者改善動物飼養環境進行輔導落日的期間是否農業部可以建立定期的稽查違規的處理的一個配套我本席認為如果有這樣子的落日條款我們可以接受但是就應該要有明確的落日時間表明確的一個輔導機制協助業者轉型甚至是轉換非動物性商品的一個獎品我想這個落日"},{"start":292.285,"end":317.846,"text":"後續有項的違規才加重法但是中間怎麼輔導這個設計的方案農業部是否能夠承諾在修法協商的時候也補充這個具體的方案我想我們在後續條文協商的時候我們一定會強化這個區塊特別是當如果說在討論的時候能夠授權狀況主管機關能夠公告不受這個禁止影響的部分也要有個弱智條款"},{"start":318.266,"end":340.592,"text":"在落日的過程中也要達到所謂的友善動物的這樣子的一個精神納在這個區塊裡面不是說你排除了以後就不管它了這個部分我想我們會來積極來處理這個部分我要麻煩你們要積極因為我們點出這些問題那實驗動物來源的缺乏管理我們一直在講實驗動物的這些動保權這個部分現在台灣有192個實驗動物機構每年使用的實驗動物數量高達"},{"start":348.635,"end":361.14,"text":"116萬隻還包含這個禽蛋魚胚胚胎等未納入統計的一個動物這代表台灣科學研究中使用動物的規模龐大持續的成長這些動物的來源主要如下國內的繁殖場"},{"start":364.602,"end":388.717,"text":"74.28%那自行繁殖的有13.16%在應用的是5.18%那市場或寵物店購買的是3.03%其他的有1.92%野外捕捉的是0.93%然後國外進口是0.82%學術交流是0.68%也就是說超過七成的實驗動物啊來自於國內的繁殖場而繁殖場的管理狀況如果不佳"},{"start":389.457,"end":411.017,"text":"也會影響到實驗動物的一個健康狀態以及實驗結果的可信度所以帶到這些數字我希望你們能夠重視相關的國內繁殖場農業部有沒有訂定管理的標準比方說繁殖設置的設立標準動物檢查的疾病篩檢要求以及遺傳背景的登錄管理等等有沒有"},{"start":412.118,"end":426.595,"text":"現在的法並沒有做它的修正不過我們用現行法去做授權的執法來處理這個繁殖跟相關的飼養的這些辦法我想動保法超過20年了"},{"start":427.616,"end":447.893,"text":"農業部都沒有訂出實驗動物來源管理辦法那這個部分我希望我不是要究責但我希望我們要探討這個問題因為我剛剛已經講了它的健康如果它沒有設立得很好它就會影響到這些實驗動物的健康就會影響到實驗的結果我們希望能夠更加照顧也希望實驗結果有所成效"},{"start":448.453,"end":464.415,"text":"所以這個東西是有必要的我希望農業部能夠好好的在這一次修法的當中能夠也把這個實驗動物來源管理辦法的草案能夠訂定出來部長可以承諾嗎我想實驗動物本身因為它現在的機制就有它有一個實驗動物的一個審查辦法"},{"start":465.396,"end":481.038,"text":"他一定是因為做實驗一定是非常重視這些動物的來源不足才會點出這個問題我希望你能夠承諾會後我會繼續追我想這個部分也許可以在調溫討論的時候我們再來討論看有什麼樣的方式能夠達到我們的意見想法"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":951,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（12時5分）謝謝召委，有請部長。"],["主席：陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長好。很多委員對於動保警察都非常非常的支持，包括我也是。我想「警察」這個兩字用在這邊對大家來說，尤其是內政部，其實他們有滿多疑慮的，所以他們有一些自己的建議。但我要講的就是，基本上我們遇到的不管是你所謂的動檢員或是動保官，其實有很多東西我們都希望在文字上能夠修整，但主要是希望能夠賦予更多的公權力去執法。我們看到勞檢員，不依勞動檢查法去規避甚至是拒絕做勞動檢查，有3到15萬的罰鍰。至於動檢的部分，我們希望能夠給予更多的武器跟利器，但是你也有提到一個很重要的，就是沒有人力。我想問一下，你知道現在動保事件多半都是怎麼樣去查獲的嗎？最一開始。"],["陳部長駿季：最一開始通常都是民眾的檢舉。"],["羅委員廷瑋：對吧？"],["陳部長駿季：對，從檢舉開始。"],["羅委員廷瑋：最大宗的都是檢舉。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：最近臺中其實也有滿多的棄養，在路邊丟狗，甚至最近發生捕犬貓、石虎食用、販賣，這些東西多半有可能一開始都是透過檢舉。我有一個觀點想跟你分享，你知道現在警察有義警、有民防，你知道嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：知道。"],["羅委員廷瑋：透過一些訓練，成為一個類似輔助志工的隊伍。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是動保有沒有這樣透過專業的訓練，把它納入？當然多半都是所謂的公民團體，他們在幫忙協助動保團體，我們非常感謝他們的協助，但是能不能給予更多的資源，先讓他們能夠加入這些動保行列的時候有更多的保障，甚至有更多的資源給他們去用？後續依序慢慢再往所謂賦予更多的權力，有所謂的動檢員，動檢員可能還會搭配更多的志工隊，甚至這些志工隊不只是公民團體，我們自己也有類似屬於動保的義警、動保的民防，名字不一定是要用這樣子，但是它所賦予的一些相關專業訓練、資源，我覺得這個是農業部可以給予更多的幫助，您覺得這樣子的觀念可以嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，其實現在就有義務的動物保護檢查人員，義務的部分，類似我們的……"],["羅委員廷瑋：那是義務的，但是就我所知道，人力並不是非常足夠。"],["陳部長駿季：現在是比較少，所以我想這個區塊是可以好好的去加強，來協助……"],["羅委員廷瑋：對，但就我所知道是人力不足啊！"],["陳部長駿季：因為現在全臺灣的動檢人員，我如果沒有記錯的話，大概是三百三十幾個而已，其實並不多。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以我們整體人力是不足的。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：幾乎都是靠這些所謂的動保團體、公民團體在幫忙。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以農業部要怎麼樣加強人力，然後賦予更多的權力？我覺得這是各個要去做一個探討，然後多頭馬車去努力、去執行的。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["羅委員廷瑋：再來，上次我有跟你提到，農業部支持禁止夜市用活體動物作為遊戲贈品，希望設置落日條款，進行一定時間的過渡，本席也可以理解設置合理的緩衝期，但是想進一步請教一下，落日條款的設計不能只有形式的過場，真正要有助於政策的落實，請問農業部，合理的落日期間是多久？半年？一年？還是兩年、三年？"],["陳部長駿季：這個部分我們必須要再跟產業溝通，因為這個議題在產業溝通的時候有兩極化的反應，所以我們才會說在法裡面希望有能夠授權中央主管機關指定公告的品項。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我希望能夠加強溝通，趕快去訂定這方面的期程。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是我要提醒的是，落日的期間是不是也會同步要求夜市業者改善動物飼養環境，進行輔導？落日的期間是否農業部可以建立定期稽查、違規處理的配套？本席認為如果有這樣子的落日條款，我們可以接受，但是就應該要有明確的落日時間表、明確的輔導機制，協助業者轉型，甚至是轉換非動物性商品的獎品。我想，這個落日如果後續再有違規採加重罰，但是中間怎麼輔導，相關設計方案，農業部是否能夠承諾在修法協商的時候，也補充這個具體的方案？"],["陳部長駿季：我想我們在後續條文協商的時候，一定會強化這個區塊，特別是如果在討論的時候能夠授權中央主管機關公告不受禁止影響的部分，也要有個落日條款，在落日的過程中也要達到所謂的友善動物這樣子的精神，納在這個區塊裡面，而不是排除了以後就不管它了！這個部分我想我們會積極處理。"],["羅委員廷瑋：這個部分要麻煩你們要積極，因為我們點出這些問題。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：實驗動物的來源缺乏管理，我們一直在講實驗動物的動保權，現在臺灣有192個實驗動物機構，每年使用的實驗動物數量高達116萬隻，還不包含禽蛋、魚胚胎等未納入統計的動物，這代表臺灣科學研究使用動物的規模龐大，持續的成長。這些動物的來源主要如下：國內的繁殖場74.28%，自行繁殖的有13.16%，再應用的是5.18%，市場或寵物店購買的是3.03%，其他的有1.92%，野外捕捉是0.93%，國外進口是0.82%，學術交流是0.68%；也就是說，超過七成的實驗動物來自於國內的繁殖場，而繁殖場的管理狀況如果不佳，也會影響到實驗動物的健康狀態，以及實驗結果的可信度，所以帶到這些數字，我希望你們能夠重視。相關的國內繁殖場，農業部有沒有訂定管理的標準？比方說繁殖設置的設立標準、動物檢查的疾病篩檢要求，以及遺傳背景的登錄、管理等等，有沒有？"],["陳部長駿季：現在的法並沒有修正，不過我們用現行法去做授權的子法，來處理繁殖跟相關飼養的辦法。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想動保法超過20年了，農業部都沒有訂出實驗動物來源管理辦法，這個部分我不是要究責，但我希望我們要探討這個問題，因為我剛剛已經講了，如果沒有設立得很好，就會影響到這些實驗動物的健康，就會影響到實驗的結果，我們希望能夠更加照顧，也希望實驗結果有所成效。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以這個東西是有必要的，我希望農業部能夠好好的，在這一次修法當中也把實驗動物來源管理辦法草案能夠訂定出來，部長可以承諾嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我想實驗動物本身，現在的機制有一個實驗動物審查辦法，因為做實驗一定是非常重視這些動物的來源，那相關的部分……"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長，但是不足，不足我才會點出這個問題，我希望你能夠承諾，會後我會繼續追，麻煩你。"],["陳部長駿季：我想這個部分也許可以在條文討論的時候，我們再來討論，看有什麼樣的方式能夠達到委員的意見、想法。"],["羅委員廷瑋：來加強這個區塊，謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["主席：謝謝。現在請葉元之委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":242,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-11","speakers":["謝衣鳯","洪孟楷","蘇巧慧","郭昱晴","羅廷瑋","李坤城","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","呂玉玲","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","張嘉郡","葉元之","蔡易餘","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","邱議瑩","張雅琳","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":173,"meetingDate":["2025-04-30"],"gazette_id":"1144501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144501_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；二、本院委員呂玉\n玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案；三、本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保\n護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案；四、本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保\n護法第十條條文修正草案」案；五、本院委員劉建國等 16 人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草\n案」案；六、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案；七、本\n院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」\n案；八、本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；九、本院委員鄭天財\nSra Kacaw 等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案；十、本院委員李坤城等\n22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；十一、本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法\n部分條文修正草案」案；十二、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；\n十三、本院委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；十四、本院委員郭昱晴\n等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；十五、本院委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「動物保護\n法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案；十六、本院委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「動物保\n護法第五條、第二十條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案；十七、本院委員林思銘等18人擬具「動\n物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；十八、本院委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正\n草案」案；十九、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二條及第五條條文修正草案」案；二\n十、本院委員游顥等23人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案；二十一、本院委\n員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案；二十二、本院委員葉元之等17人擬\n具「動物保護法增訂第十四條之三條文草案」案；二十三、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保\n護法第二十五條條文修正草案」案；二十四、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第二十五\n條之二條文修正草案」案；二十五、本院委員蘇巧慧等 17 人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草\n案」案；二十六、本院委員吳沛憶等17 人擬具「動物保護法第二十二條之四條文修正草案」案\n（詢答）","agenda_id":"1144501_00004"}}}