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Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n十、本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十一、本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十二、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十三、本院委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、本院委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、本院委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十六、本院委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「動物保護法第五條、第二十條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十七、本院委員林思銘等18人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、本院委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十九、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二條及第五條條文修正草案」案。\n二十、本院委員游顥等23人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法增訂第十四條之三條文草案」案。\n二十三、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、本院委員蘇巧慧等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十六、本院委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「動物保護法第二十二條之四條文修正草案」案。（詢答）\n【4月30日及5月1日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-04-30","start_time":"2025-04-30T12:13:29+08:00","end_time":"2025-04-30T12:20:17+08:00","duration":408,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-3-19-11"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"id":"160809","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160809","tool":"pyannote","id":"160809-pyannote"},"job_id":"5sP7jOb62Nce4Fki","queued_at":"2025-05-01 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{\"word\": \"煩\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 100.005, \"end\": 101.347, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 101.347, \"end\": 101.547, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"致\", \"start\": 101.547, \"end\": 101.687, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 101.687, \"end\": 101.907, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 101.907, \"end\": 102.007, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 102.007, \"end\": 102.247, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 102.247, \"end\": 102.408, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 102.408, \"end\": 102.548, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 102.548, \"end\": 102.828, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 102.828, \"end\": 103.248, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 103.248, \"end\": 103.389, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 103.389, 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00:01:26,501\n會造成問題所以就覺得不贊成這樣的立法那我其實對於農業部這樣的回應我是非常保留的態度啦以前也有很多未立案的工廠他也是會有土地利用的問題比如說在農地上面或在哪裡上面但是當時經濟部也有訂定未立案工廠的相關的管理辦法然後透過地方政府去輔導他們合法\n\n5\n00:01:27,953 --> 00:01:45,391\n過去都可以對於衛利案的工廠可以這樣做為什麼現在對於如果有收養大量飼養戶的這些民間動物送貨所卻因為可能管理很麻煩然後會導致他們可能會土地利用問題所以就不管了這個差別在哪\n\n6\n00:01:46,878 --> 00:02:06,359\n我剛才看了我們部裡面同仁回應的這個第二條的部分我也覺得不恰當啦你也覺得不恰當我也覺得不恰當啦因為相關的違法就是違法那不能說違法太多了以後沒辦法管的時候所以你這邊交給立法院的報告部長本人沒看過喔那你怎麼來備詢不是\n\n7\n00:02:08,220 --> 00:02:33,152\n他整個的部分就是相關的他們基本上我這個其實在會前有跟他們討論過因為那時候已經印了列印了所以我在這一次的簡報上面我就沒有寫這一個那對於這個所以部長你對於你自己交出來這個報告你不認同這也太奇怪了是吧那沒關係我不為難你啦所以如果是由你來撰寫的話你會怎麼回答\n\n8\n00:02:33,885 --> 00:02:46,172\n我想基本上我們會根據他的情節特別他飼養的這些寵物本身的危險性用這樣的一個動物的分類的概念去處理這樣的一個意義所以還是會納款\n\n9\n00:02:48,910 --> 00:03:08,706\n我是希望是納管的大原則還是會納管只是他們在寫這個理由的時候我是覺得文詞不是很強的他這邊就說沒有要納管啊他說建議還是由地方政府以符合動物福祉的飼養方式輔導啊就沒有要納管的意思啊但是部長你現在意思是說你自己是支持就對了\n\n10\n00:03:09,597 --> 00:03:33,791\n我基本上是支持這樣的一種看法好謝謝那接下來因為在總質詢的時候我們有問到川普希望能夠台灣取消一些非關稅的貿易障礙其中他對於我們的豬肉標示原產地一直很有意見這是美國啦美國一直很有意見那我記得部長你在總質詢的時候你回答說這個不是政府要求的這是\n\n11\n00:03:35,252 --> 00:03:52,829\n民間自發性的行為那我印象當中就不是這樣所以特別去把當時的一些新聞找出來你看這是那時候中央社報導第二行就很明確的寫得很清楚說政府要求業者必須標示產地然後衛福部跟農委會當時是農委會現在是農業部當時還各自推出標章\n\n12\n00:03:58,593 --> 00:04:21,826\n衛福部有自己的台灣做標章農委會也有台灣做標章所以還造成了一個標章之亂在那個時候所以明明就是農業部衛福部要求的啊然後前農委會主委陳吉仲那個時候在新聞版面上面大幅的出現拿這個標章來做宣導啊怎麼會現在忽然變成說這個東西跟政府無關這個東西是業者的自發性行為\n\n13\n00:04:24,057 --> 00:04:45,258\n我要跟委員報告我們當初設計的台灣豬的標章它在法上面我們是鼓勵我們台灣用台灣豬的商店去貼這個標章所以貼這個標章是屬於自願性的不是強制性的你自己看這中央社國家通訊社我還沒有講完但是整個的\n\n14\n00:04:46,219 --> 00:05:05,572\n豬的標示的部分是衛福部那衛福部他有他的一個豬及豬可食部位的一個標示追溯的管理辦法在那個辦法裡面是規定是強制的我覺得你這種講法就有點甩鍋了那個時候誰不知道說是農業部衛福部一直要求大家店家要去貼這個台灣豬標章\n\n15\n00:05:06,553 --> 00:05:23,435\n就現在面臨到那個關稅談判的時候忽然又講說那根本沒關係喔如果有貼的話那個是業者的自發性行為喔不貼也沒關係喔我們一定鼓勵貼的你現在的態度就是不貼也沒關係嘛不是我們是鼓...我們是一向是鼓勵那你...那你有沒有鼓...那我問一下政府現在的態度還有沒有鼓勵\n\n16\n00:05:24,296 --> 00:05:40,424\n業者貼農業部現在有沒有鼓勵大家貼還是鼓勵我們還是鼓勵說他本身是使用台灣豬很好你們還是鼓勵嘛我們還是鼓勵好謝謝那如果今天美國說不好意思農業部你不能再鼓勵了衛福部你也不能再鼓勵了\n\n17\n00:05:41,204 --> 00:06:09,307\n最好這個標章是越少越好那農業部可以堅持說為了我們的食安或者是為了我們的農業你還是持續鼓勵大家一定要貼這個台灣豬標章嗎我相信我們的鼓勵是不會被挑戰的啦因為所有的鼓勵是業者的願意接受我們的鼓勵去貼的那是自發性的行為所以你是很多東西你都說鼓勵啦譬如說以前蛋價啊你們都會講說你們建議業者啊或者是你們沒有干預啊但實際上農業部有講話誰不會做\n\n18\n00:06:11,328 --> 00:06:39,880\n我覺得實務就不是這樣嘛沒有關係部長你剛剛已經承諾了啦因為我們現在就是怕說在關稅談判的時候會影響到我們一些食安的把關嘛那部長你剛剛已經講過你們還是會持續鼓勵我們的業者貼台灣做標章我覺得這樣就夠了啦這樣就夠了啦對這樣就夠了啦保護我們的農業嘛保護我們的食安嘛這是政府應該有態度啦不是說美國要幹嘛就幹嘛對我們農業部的職責啊好謝謝\n\n19\n00:06:41,493 --> 00:06:44,499\n好谢谢我们现在请蔡议员做询答\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9545\t11432\t请农业部长谢谢陈部长\n19187\t44666\t不然針對動保法我這邊有新增14條之三用意是修法的目的是希望能夠把民間的動物的收容數那一定規模的一些飼養戶希望能夠納管取得地方政府的登記或許可避免不當大量飼養動物的行為這個在你們回應裡面都是這樣子寫說利益良善\n45226\t61347\t但後面這段我就不是太認同你們說但是因為這些收容所樣態複雜而且土地利用正義可能是說他可能在一些違法的土地使用上面做這個收容所所以啊因為納管的話很多會違法倒閉\n62228\t86501\t會造成問題所以就覺得不贊成這樣的立法那我其實對於農業部這樣的回應我是非常保留的態度啦以前也有很多未立案的工廠他也是會有土地利用的問題比如說在農地上面或在哪裡上面但是當時經濟部也有訂定未立案工廠的相關的管理辦法然後透過地方政府去輔導他們合法\n87953\t105391\t過去都可以對於衛利案的工廠可以這樣做為什麼現在對於如果有收養大量飼養戶的這些民間動物送貨所卻因為可能管理很麻煩然後會導致他們可能會土地利用問題所以就不管了這個差別在哪\n106878\t126359\t我剛才看了我們部裡面同仁回應的這個第二條的部分我也覺得不恰當啦你也覺得不恰當我也覺得不恰當啦因為相關的違法就是違法那不能說違法太多了以後沒辦法管的時候所以你這邊交給立法院的報告部長本人沒看過喔那你怎麼來備詢不是\n128220\t153152\t他整個的部分就是相關的他們基本上我這個其實在會前有跟他們討論過因為那時候已經印了 列印了所以我在這一次的簡報上面我就沒有寫這一個那對於這個所以部長你對於你自己交出來這個報告你不認同這也太奇怪了是吧那沒關係我不為難你啦所以如果是由你來撰寫的話你會怎麼回答\n153885\t166172\t我想基本上我們會根據他的情節特別他飼養的這些寵物本身的危險性用這樣的一個動物的分類的概念去處理這樣的一個意義所以還是會納款\n168910\t188706\t我是希望是納管的大原則還是會納管只是他們在寫這個理由的時候我是覺得文詞不是很強的他這邊就說沒有要納管啊他說建議還是由地方政府以符合動物福祉的飼養方式輔導啊就沒有要納管的意思啊但是部長你現在意思是說你自己是支持就對了\n189597\t213791\t我基本上是支持這樣的一種看法好 謝謝那接下來因為在總質詢的時候我們有問到川普希望能夠台灣取消一些非關稅的貿易障礙其中他對於我們的豬肉標示原產地一直很有意見這是美國啦美國一直很有意見那我記得部長你在總質詢的時候你回答說這個不是政府要求的這是\n215252\t232829\t民間自發性的行為那我印象當中就不是這樣所以特別去把當時的一些新聞找出來你看這是那時候中央社報導第二行就很明確的寫得很清楚說政府要求業者必須標示產地然後衛福部跟農委會當時是農委會現在是農業部當時還各自推出標章\n238593\t261826\t衛福部有自己的台灣做標章農委會也有台灣做標章所以還造成了一個標章之亂在那個時候所以明明就是農業部衛福部要求的啊然後前農委會主委陳吉仲那個時候在新聞版面上面大幅的出現拿這個標章來做宣導啊怎麼會現在忽然變成說這個東西跟政府無關這個東西是業者的自發性行為\n264057\t285258\t我要跟委員報告我們當初設計的台灣豬的標章它在法上面我們是鼓勵我們台灣用台灣豬的商店去貼這個標章所以貼這個標章是屬於自願性的不是強制性的你自己看這中央社國家通訊社我還沒有講完但是整個的\n286219\t305572\t豬的標示的部分是衛福部那衛福部他有他的一個豬及豬可食部位的一個標示追溯的管理辦法在那個辦法裡面是規定是強制的我覺得你這種講法就有點甩鍋了那個時候誰不知道說是農業部衛福部一直要求大家店家要去貼這個台灣豬標章\n306553\t323435\t就現在面臨到那個關稅談判的時候忽然又講說那根本沒關係喔如果有貼的話那個是業者的自發性行為喔不貼也沒關係喔我們一定鼓勵貼的你現在的態度就是不貼也沒關係嘛不是 我們是鼓...我們是一向是鼓勵那你...那你有沒有鼓...那我問一下政府現在的態度還有沒有鼓勵\n324296\t340424\t業者貼農業部現在有沒有鼓勵大家貼還是鼓勵我們還是鼓勵說他本身是使用台灣豬很好你們還是鼓勵嘛我們還是鼓勵好謝謝那如果今天美國說不好意思農業部你不能再鼓勵了衛福部你也不能再鼓勵了\n341204\t369307\t最好這個標章是越少越好那農業部可以堅持說為了我們的食安或者是為了我們的農業你還是持續鼓勵大家一定要貼這個台灣豬標章嗎我相信我們的鼓勵是不會被挑戰的啦因為所有的鼓勵是業者的願意接受我們的鼓勵去貼的那是自發性的行為所以你是很多東西你都說鼓勵啦譬如說以前蛋價啊你們都會講說你們建議業者啊或者是你們沒有干預啊但實際上農業部有講話誰不會做\n371328\t399880\t我覺得實務就不是這樣嘛沒有關係部長你剛剛已經承諾了啦因為我們現在就是怕說在關稅談判的時候會影響到我們一些食安的把關嘛那部長你剛剛已經講過你們還是會持續鼓勵我們的業者貼台灣做標章我覺得這樣就夠了啦這樣就夠了啦對這樣就夠了啦保護我們的農業嘛保護我們的食安嘛這是政府應該有態度啦不是說美國要幹嘛就幹嘛對我們農業部的職責啊好 謝謝\n401493\t404499\t好 谢谢我们现在请蔡议员做询答\n","txt":"请农业部长谢谢陈部长\n不然針對動保法我這邊有新增14條之三用意是修法的目的是希望能夠把民間的動物的收容數那一定規模的一些飼養戶希望能夠納管取得地方政府的登記或許可避免不當大量飼養動物的行為這個在你們回應裡面都是這樣子寫說利益良善\n但後面這段我就不是太認同你們說但是因為這些收容所樣態複雜而且土地利用正義可能是說他可能在一些違法的土地使用上面做這個收容所所以啊因為納管的話很多會違法倒閉\n會造成問題所以就覺得不贊成這樣的立法那我其實對於農業部這樣的回應我是非常保留的態度啦以前也有很多未立案的工廠他也是會有土地利用的問題比如說在農地上面或在哪裡上面但是當時經濟部也有訂定未立案工廠的相關的管理辦法然後透過地方政府去輔導他們合法\n過去都可以對於衛利案的工廠可以這樣做為什麼現在對於如果有收養大量飼養戶的這些民間動物送貨所卻因為可能管理很麻煩然後會導致他們可能會土地利用問題所以就不管了這個差別在哪\n我剛才看了我們部裡面同仁回應的這個第二條的部分我也覺得不恰當啦你也覺得不恰當我也覺得不恰當啦因為相關的違法就是違法那不能說違法太多了以後沒辦法管的時候所以你這邊交給立法院的報告部長本人沒看過喔那你怎麼來備詢不是\n他整個的部分就是相關的他們基本上我這個其實在會前有跟他們討論過因為那時候已經印了 列印了所以我在這一次的簡報上面我就沒有寫這一個那對於這個所以部長你對於你自己交出來這個報告你不認同這也太奇怪了是吧那沒關係我不為難你啦所以如果是由你來撰寫的話你會怎麼回答\n我想基本上我們會根據他的情節特別他飼養的這些寵物本身的危險性用這樣的一個動物的分類的概念去處理這樣的一個意義所以還是會納款\n我是希望是納管的大原則還是會納管只是他們在寫這個理由的時候我是覺得文詞不是很強的他這邊就說沒有要納管啊他說建議還是由地方政府以符合動物福祉的飼養方式輔導啊就沒有要納管的意思啊但是部長你現在意思是說你自己是支持就對了\n我基本上是支持這樣的一種看法好 謝謝那接下來因為在總質詢的時候我們有問到川普希望能夠台灣取消一些非關稅的貿易障礙其中他對於我們的豬肉標示原產地一直很有意見這是美國啦美國一直很有意見那我記得部長你在總質詢的時候你回答說這個不是政府要求的這是\n民間自發性的行為那我印象當中就不是這樣所以特別去把當時的一些新聞找出來你看這是那時候中央社報導第二行就很明確的寫得很清楚說政府要求業者必須標示產地然後衛福部跟農委會當時是農委會現在是農業部當時還各自推出標章\n衛福部有自己的台灣做標章農委會也有台灣做標章所以還造成了一個標章之亂在那個時候所以明明就是農業部衛福部要求的啊然後前農委會主委陳吉仲那個時候在新聞版面上面大幅的出現拿這個標章來做宣導啊怎麼會現在忽然變成說這個東西跟政府無關這個東西是業者的自發性行為\n我要跟委員報告我們當初設計的台灣豬的標章它在法上面我們是鼓勵我們台灣用台灣豬的商店去貼這個標章所以貼這個標章是屬於自願性的不是強制性的你自己看這中央社國家通訊社我還沒有講完但是整個的\n豬的標示的部分是衛福部那衛福部他有他的一個豬及豬可食部位的一個標示追溯的管理辦法在那個辦法裡面是規定是強制的我覺得你這種講法就有點甩鍋了那個時候誰不知道說是農業部衛福部一直要求大家店家要去貼這個台灣豬標章\n就現在面臨到那個關稅談判的時候忽然又講說那根本沒關係喔如果有貼的話那個是業者的自發性行為喔不貼也沒關係喔我們一定鼓勵貼的你現在的態度就是不貼也沒關係嘛不是 我們是鼓...我們是一向是鼓勵那你...那你有沒有鼓...那我問一下政府現在的態度還有沒有鼓勵\n業者貼農業部現在有沒有鼓勵大家貼還是鼓勵我們還是鼓勵說他本身是使用台灣豬很好你們還是鼓勵嘛我們還是鼓勵好謝謝那如果今天美國說不好意思農業部你不能再鼓勵了衛福部你也不能再鼓勵了\n最好這個標章是越少越好那農業部可以堅持說為了我們的食安或者是為了我們的農業你還是持續鼓勵大家一定要貼這個台灣豬標章嗎我相信我們的鼓勵是不會被挑戰的啦因為所有的鼓勵是業者的願意接受我們的鼓勵去貼的那是自發性的行為所以你是很多東西你都說鼓勵啦譬如說以前蛋價啊你們都會講說你們建議業者啊或者是你們沒有干預啊但實際上農業部有講話誰不會做\n我覺得實務就不是這樣嘛沒有關係部長你剛剛已經承諾了啦因為我們現在就是怕說在關稅談判的時候會影響到我們一些食安的把關嘛那部長你剛剛已經講過你們還是會持續鼓勵我們的業者貼台灣做標章我覺得這樣就夠了啦這樣就夠了啦對這樣就夠了啦保護我們的農業嘛保護我們的食安嘛這是政府應該有態度啦不是說美國要幹嘛就幹嘛對我們農業部的職責啊好 謝謝\n好 谢谢我们现在请蔡议员做询答\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.545 --> 00:11.432\n请农业部长谢谢陈部长\n\n00:19.187 --> 00:44.666\n不然針對動保法我這邊有新增14條之三用意是修法的目的是希望能夠把民間的動物的收容數那一定規模的一些飼養戶希望能夠納管取得地方政府的登記或許可避免不當大量飼養動物的行為這個在你們回應裡面都是這樣子寫說利益良善\n\n00:45.226 --> 01:01.347\n但後面這段我就不是太認同你們說但是因為這些收容所樣態複雜而且土地利用正義可能是說他可能在一些違法的土地使用上面做這個收容所所以啊因為納管的話很多會違法倒閉\n\n01:02.228 --> 01:26.501\n會造成問題所以就覺得不贊成這樣的立法那我其實對於農業部這樣的回應我是非常保留的態度啦以前也有很多未立案的工廠他也是會有土地利用的問題比如說在農地上面或在哪裡上面但是當時經濟部也有訂定未立案工廠的相關的管理辦法然後透過地方政府去輔導他們合法\n\n01:27.953 --> 01:45.391\n過去都可以對於衛利案的工廠可以這樣做為什麼現在對於如果有收養大量飼養戶的這些民間動物送貨所卻因為可能管理很麻煩然後會導致他們可能會土地利用問題所以就不管了這個差別在哪\n\n01:46.878 --> 02:06.359\n我剛才看了我們部裡面同仁回應的這個第二條的部分我也覺得不恰當啦你也覺得不恰當我也覺得不恰當啦因為相關的違法就是違法那不能說違法太多了以後沒辦法管的時候所以你這邊交給立法院的報告部長本人沒看過喔那你怎麼來備詢不是\n\n02:08.220 --> 02:33.152\n他整個的部分就是相關的他們基本上我這個其實在會前有跟他們討論過因為那時候已經印了列印了所以我在這一次的簡報上面我就沒有寫這一個那對於這個所以部長你對於你自己交出來這個報告你不認同這也太奇怪了是吧那沒關係我不為難你啦所以如果是由你來撰寫的話你會怎麼回答\n\n02:33.885 --> 02:46.172\n我想基本上我們會根據他的情節特別他飼養的這些寵物本身的危險性用這樣的一個動物的分類的概念去處理這樣的一個意義所以還是會納款\n\n02:48.910 --> 03:08.706\n我是希望是納管的大原則還是會納管只是他們在寫這個理由的時候我是覺得文詞不是很強的他這邊就說沒有要納管啊他說建議還是由地方政府以符合動物福祉的飼養方式輔導啊就沒有要納管的意思啊但是部長你現在意思是說你自己是支持就對了\n\n03:09.597 --> 03:33.791\n我基本上是支持這樣的一種看法好謝謝那接下來因為在總質詢的時候我們有問到川普希望能夠台灣取消一些非關稅的貿易障礙其中他對於我們的豬肉標示原產地一直很有意見這是美國啦美國一直很有意見那我記得部長你在總質詢的時候你回答說這個不是政府要求的這是\n\n03:35.252 --> 03:52.829\n民間自發性的行為那我印象當中就不是這樣所以特別去把當時的一些新聞找出來你看這是那時候中央社報導第二行就很明確的寫得很清楚說政府要求業者必須標示產地然後衛福部跟農委會當時是農委會現在是農業部當時還各自推出標章\n\n03:58.593 --> 04:21.826\n衛福部有自己的台灣做標章農委會也有台灣做標章所以還造成了一個標章之亂在那個時候所以明明就是農業部衛福部要求的啊然後前農委會主委陳吉仲那個時候在新聞版面上面大幅的出現拿這個標章來做宣導啊怎麼會現在忽然變成說這個東西跟政府無關這個東西是業者的自發性行為\n\n04:24.057 --> 04:45.258\n我要跟委員報告我們當初設計的台灣豬的標章它在法上面我們是鼓勵我們台灣用台灣豬的商店去貼這個標章所以貼這個標章是屬於自願性的不是強制性的你自己看這中央社國家通訊社我還沒有講完但是整個的\n\n04:46.219 --> 05:05.572\n豬的標示的部分是衛福部那衛福部他有他的一個豬及豬可食部位的一個標示追溯的管理辦法在那個辦法裡面是規定是強制的我覺得你這種講法就有點甩鍋了那個時候誰不知道說是農業部衛福部一直要求大家店家要去貼這個台灣豬標章\n\n05:06.553 --> 05:23.435\n就現在面臨到那個關稅談判的時候忽然又講說那根本沒關係喔如果有貼的話那個是業者的自發性行為喔不貼也沒關係喔我們一定鼓勵貼的你現在的態度就是不貼也沒關係嘛不是我們是鼓...我們是一向是鼓勵那你...那你有沒有鼓...那我問一下政府現在的態度還有沒有鼓勵\n\n05:24.296 --> 05:40.424\n業者貼農業部現在有沒有鼓勵大家貼還是鼓勵我們還是鼓勵說他本身是使用台灣豬很好你們還是鼓勵嘛我們還是鼓勵好謝謝那如果今天美國說不好意思農業部你不能再鼓勵了衛福部你也不能再鼓勵了\n\n05:41.204 --> 06:09.307\n最好這個標章是越少越好那農業部可以堅持說為了我們的食安或者是為了我們的農業你還是持續鼓勵大家一定要貼這個台灣豬標章嗎我相信我們的鼓勵是不會被挑戰的啦因為所有的鼓勵是業者的願意接受我們的鼓勵去貼的那是自發性的行為所以你是很多東西你都說鼓勵啦譬如說以前蛋價啊你們都會講說你們建議業者啊或者是你們沒有干預啊但實際上農業部有講話誰不會做\n\n06:11.328 --> 06:39.880\n我覺得實務就不是這樣嘛沒有關係部長你剛剛已經承諾了啦因為我們現在就是怕說在關稅談判的時候會影響到我們一些食安的把關嘛那部長你剛剛已經講過你們還是會持續鼓勵我們的業者貼台灣做標章我覺得這樣就夠了啦這樣就夠了啦對這樣就夠了啦保護我們的農業嘛保護我們的食安嘛這是政府應該有態度啦不是說美國要幹嘛就幹嘛對我們農業部的職責啊好謝謝\n\n06:41.493 --> 06:44.499\n好谢谢我们现在请蔡议员做询答\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.545,"end":11.432,"text":"请农业部长谢谢陈部长"},{"start":19.187,"end":44.666,"text":"不然針對動保法我這邊有新增14條之三用意是修法的目的是希望能夠把民間的動物的收容數那一定規模的一些飼養戶希望能夠納管取得地方政府的登記或許可避免不當大量飼養動物的行為這個在你們回應裡面都是這樣子寫說利益良善"},{"start":45.226,"end":61.347,"text":"但後面這段我就不是太認同你們說但是因為這些收容所樣態複雜而且土地利用正義可能是說他可能在一些違法的土地使用上面做這個收容所所以啊因為納管的話很多會違法倒閉"},{"start":62.228,"end":86.501,"text":"會造成問題所以就覺得不贊成這樣的立法那我其實對於農業部這樣的回應我是非常保留的態度啦以前也有很多未立案的工廠他也是會有土地利用的問題比如說在農地上面或在哪裡上面但是當時經濟部也有訂定未立案工廠的相關的管理辦法然後透過地方政府去輔導他們合法"},{"start":87.953,"end":105.391,"text":"過去都可以對於衛利案的工廠可以這樣做為什麼現在對於如果有收養大量飼養戶的這些民間動物送貨所卻因為可能管理很麻煩然後會導致他們可能會土地利用問題所以就不管了這個差別在哪"},{"start":106.878,"end":126.359,"text":"我剛才看了我們部裡面同仁回應的這個第二條的部分我也覺得不恰當啦你也覺得不恰當我也覺得不恰當啦因為相關的違法就是違法那不能說違法太多了以後沒辦法管的時候所以你這邊交給立法院的報告部長本人沒看過喔那你怎麼來備詢不是"},{"start":128.22,"end":153.152,"text":"他整個的部分就是相關的他們基本上我這個其實在會前有跟他們討論過因為那時候已經印了 列印了所以我在這一次的簡報上面我就沒有寫這一個那對於這個所以部長你對於你自己交出來這個報告你不認同這也太奇怪了是吧那沒關係我不為難你啦所以如果是由你來撰寫的話你會怎麼回答"},{"start":153.885,"end":166.172,"text":"我想基本上我們會根據他的情節特別他飼養的這些寵物本身的危險性用這樣的一個動物的分類的概念去處理這樣的一個意義所以還是會納款"},{"start":168.91,"end":188.706,"text":"我是希望是納管的大原則還是會納管只是他們在寫這個理由的時候我是覺得文詞不是很強的他這邊就說沒有要納管啊他說建議還是由地方政府以符合動物福祉的飼養方式輔導啊就沒有要納管的意思啊但是部長你現在意思是說你自己是支持就對了"},{"start":189.597,"end":213.791,"text":"我基本上是支持這樣的一種看法好 謝謝那接下來因為在總質詢的時候我們有問到川普希望能夠台灣取消一些非關稅的貿易障礙其中他對於我們的豬肉標示原產地一直很有意見這是美國啦美國一直很有意見那我記得部長你在總質詢的時候你回答說這個不是政府要求的這是"},{"start":215.252,"end":232.829,"text":"民間自發性的行為那我印象當中就不是這樣所以特別去把當時的一些新聞找出來你看這是那時候中央社報導第二行就很明確的寫得很清楚說政府要求業者必須標示產地然後衛福部跟農委會當時是農委會現在是農業部當時還各自推出標章"},{"start":238.593,"end":261.826,"text":"衛福部有自己的台灣做標章農委會也有台灣做標章所以還造成了一個標章之亂在那個時候所以明明就是農業部衛福部要求的啊然後前農委會主委陳吉仲那個時候在新聞版面上面大幅的出現拿這個標章來做宣導啊怎麼會現在忽然變成說這個東西跟政府無關這個東西是業者的自發性行為"},{"start":264.057,"end":285.258,"text":"我要跟委員報告我們當初設計的台灣豬的標章它在法上面我們是鼓勵我們台灣用台灣豬的商店去貼這個標章所以貼這個標章是屬於自願性的不是強制性的你自己看這中央社國家通訊社我還沒有講完但是整個的"},{"start":286.219,"end":305.572,"text":"豬的標示的部分是衛福部那衛福部他有他的一個豬及豬可食部位的一個標示追溯的管理辦法在那個辦法裡面是規定是強制的我覺得你這種講法就有點甩鍋了那個時候誰不知道說是農業部衛福部一直要求大家店家要去貼這個台灣豬標章"},{"start":306.553,"end":323.435,"text":"就現在面臨到那個關稅談判的時候忽然又講說那根本沒關係喔如果有貼的話那個是業者的自發性行為喔不貼也沒關係喔我們一定鼓勵貼的你現在的態度就是不貼也沒關係嘛不是 我們是鼓...我們是一向是鼓勵那你...那你有沒有鼓...那我問一下政府現在的態度還有沒有鼓勵"},{"start":324.296,"end":340.424,"text":"業者貼農業部現在有沒有鼓勵大家貼還是鼓勵我們還是鼓勵說他本身是使用台灣豬很好你們還是鼓勵嘛我們還是鼓勵好謝謝那如果今天美國說不好意思農業部你不能再鼓勵了衛福部你也不能再鼓勵了"},{"start":341.204,"end":369.307,"text":"最好這個標章是越少越好那農業部可以堅持說為了我們的食安或者是為了我們的農業你還是持續鼓勵大家一定要貼這個台灣豬標章嗎我相信我們的鼓勵是不會被挑戰的啦因為所有的鼓勵是業者的願意接受我們的鼓勵去貼的那是自發性的行為所以你是很多東西你都說鼓勵啦譬如說以前蛋價啊你們都會講說你們建議業者啊或者是你們沒有干預啊但實際上農業部有講話誰不會做"},{"start":371.328,"end":399.88,"text":"我覺得實務就不是這樣嘛沒有關係部長你剛剛已經承諾了啦因為我們現在就是怕說在關稅談判的時候會影響到我們一些食安的把關嘛那部長你剛剛已經講過你們還是會持續鼓勵我們的業者貼台灣做標章我覺得這樣就夠了啦這樣就夠了啦對這樣就夠了啦保護我們的農業嘛保護我們的食安嘛這是政府應該有態度啦不是說美國要幹嘛就幹嘛對我們農業部的職責啊好 謝謝"},{"start":401.493,"end":404.499,"text":"好 谢谢我们现在请蔡议员做询答"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":995,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（12時13分）請農業部長，謝謝。"],["主席：陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：部長好。針對動保法，我這邊有新增第十四條之三，修法的目的是希望能夠把民間的動物收容所、一定規模的一些飼養戶納管，取得地方政府的登記或許可，避免不當大量飼養動物的行為。在你們的回應裡面都是寫立意良善，但是後面這一段我就不太認同，你們說因為這些收容所樣態複雜，而且土地利用爭議，可能是說它可能在一些違法土地使用上做這個收容所，因為納管的話，很多會違法倒閉，會造成問題，所以就覺得不贊成這樣的立法。我其實對於農業部這樣回應持非常保留的態度，以前也有很多未立案的工廠，它也是會有土地利用的問題，比如說在農地上面或在哪裡上面，但是當時經濟部也有訂定未立案工廠的相關管理辦法，透過地方政府去輔導它們合法，過去對於未立案的工廠都可以這樣做，為什麼現在對於有大量收養的飼養戶、民間動物收容所，卻可能因為管理很麻煩，導致它們土地利用會有問題，所以就不管了，這個差別在哪？"],["陳部長駿季：我剛剛看了我們部裡面同仁回應這一條的部分，我也覺得不恰當……"],["葉委員元之：你也覺得不恰當？"],["陳部長駿季：我也覺得不恰當，因為違法就是違法，不能因為違法太多了以後，在沒辦法管的時候，就……"],["葉委員元之：所以你們交給立法院的這份報告，部長本人沒看過？那你怎麼來備詢？"],["陳部長駿季：基本上，這個報告內容我其實在會前有跟同仁討論過，因為那時候已經列印了，所以我在這一次的簡報上就沒有寫這個部分。"],["葉委員元之：所以部長，你對於自己交出來的這份報告也不認同，這也太奇怪了。"],["陳部長駿季：不是，我……"],["葉委員元之：那沒關係，我不為難你，所以如果是由你來撰寫的話，你會怎麼回答？"],["陳部長駿季：我想基本上我們會根據它的情節，特別是飼養寵物本身的危險性，用動物分類的概念去處理這樣的議題。"],["葉委員元之：所以還是會納管？"],["陳部長駿季：我希望是納管的。"],["葉委員元之：你希望納管。"],["陳部長駿季：大原則還是會納管，只是同仁在寫這個理由的時候，我是覺得文字不是那麼的恰當。"],["葉委員元之：報告這邊就說沒有要納管啊！他說：建議還是由地方政府以符合動物福祉的飼養方式輔導。沒有要納管的意思，但是部長，現在意思是說你自己是支持就對了？"],["陳部長駿季：我基本上是支持這樣的看法。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。接下來，因為在總質詢的時候我們有問到，川普希望臺灣能夠取消一些非關稅貿易障礙，其中對於我們的豬肉標示原產地，美國一直很有意見。我記得部長在總質詢的時候回答說：這個不是政府要求的，這是民間自發性的行為。我印象當中就不是這樣，所以特別去把當時的一些新聞找出來，你看這是那時候中央社的報導，第二行明確地寫得很清楚說：政府要求業者必須標示產地。衛福部跟農委會，當時是農委會，現在是農業部，當時還各自推出標章，衛福部有自己的「台灣豬貼紙」；農委會也有「臺灣豬標章」，所以那個時候還造成標章之亂，所以明明就是農業部、衛福部要求的，那個時候前農委會陳吉仲主委在新聞版面上大幅的出現，拿這個標章在做宣導，現在怎麼忽然變成說豬肉標示跟政府無關，是業者自發性行為？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，我們當初設計的臺灣豬標章，在法上面是鼓勵使用臺灣豬肉的商店去貼這個標章，所以貼這個標章是屬於自願性的，不是強制性的。"],["葉委員元之：你自己看這是中央通訊社喔！"],["陳部長駿季：我還沒有講完，但是整個豬的標示部分是衛福部規定，它訂有相關豬肉及豬可食部位原料之原產地標示規定，在那個辦法裡面規定是強制的。"],["葉委員元之：部長，我覺得你這種講法就有點甩鍋了，那個時候誰不知道是農業部、衛福部一直要求店家要去貼臺灣豬標章，現在面臨到要關稅談判的時候，忽然又講說跟我們沒關係喔！如果有貼的話，是業者自發性行為；不貼也沒關係，你現在的態度就是不貼也沒關係嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：不是，我們一向是鼓勵用臺灣豬……"],["葉委員元之：那我問一下，政府現在的態度還有沒有鼓勵業者貼？農業部現在有沒有鼓勵大家貼？"],["陳部長駿季：我們還是鼓勵它本身是使用臺灣豬要標示……"],["葉委員元之：很好，你們還是鼓勵嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：我們還是鼓勵。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。如果今天美國說，不好意思，農業部不能再鼓勵了、衛福部也不能再鼓勵了，最好這個標章是越少越好。那農業部可以堅持說：為了我們的食安或為了我們農業發展，你還是持續鼓勵大家一定要貼臺灣豬的標章嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我相信我們的鼓勵是不會被挑戰的，因為所有的鼓勵是業者願意接受而去貼的，那是自發性的行為。"],["葉委員元之：雖然很多東西你都說鼓勵啦！譬如以前的蛋價，你們都會講說只是建議業者或你們沒有干預，但實際上農業部有講話誰會不做，我覺得實務就不是這樣嘛！沒有關係，部長，你剛剛已經承諾了，因為現在就是怕在關稅談判的時候，會影響到我們一些食安的把關，部長你剛剛已經講，你們還是會持續鼓勵我們的業者貼臺灣豬標章，我覺得這樣就夠了。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們是針對國內的部分。"],["葉委員元之：保護我們的農業、保護我們的食安，這是政府應該有態度，不是美國要幹嘛就幹嘛，好，謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：對，這是農業部的職責。"],["主席：謝謝。","現在請蔡易餘委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":242,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-11","speakers":["謝衣鳯","洪孟楷","蘇巧慧","郭昱晴","羅廷瑋","李坤城","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","呂玉玲","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","張嘉郡","葉元之","蔡易餘","吳沛憶","陳培瑜","邱議瑩","張雅琳","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":173,"meetingDate":["2025-04-30"],"gazette_id":"1144501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144501_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；二、本院委員呂玉\n玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案；三、本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保\n護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案；四、本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保\n護法第十條條文修正草案」案；五、本院委員劉建國等 16 人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草\n案」案；六、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案；七、本\n院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」\n案；八、本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；九、本院委員鄭天財\nSra Kacaw 等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案；十、本院委員李坤城等\n22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；十一、本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法\n部分條文修正草案」案；十二、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；\n十三、本院委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；十四、本院委員郭昱晴\n等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；十五、本院委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「動物保護\n法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案；十六、本院委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「動物保\n護法第五條、第二十條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案；十七、本院委員林思銘等18人擬具「動\n物保護法部分條文修正草案」案；十八、本院委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正\n草案」案；十九、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二條及第五條條文修正草案」案；二\n十、本院委員游顥等23人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案；二十一、本院委\n員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案；二十二、本院委員葉元之等17人擬\n具「動物保護法增訂第十四條之三條文草案」案；二十三、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保\n護法第二十五條條文修正草案」案；二十四、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第二十五\n條之二條文修正草案」案；二十五、本院委員蘇巧慧等 17 人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草\n案」案；二十六、本院委員吳沛憶等17 人擬具「動物保護法第二十二條之四條文修正草案」案\n（詢答）","agenda_id":"1144501_00004"}}}