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00:00:57,318\n1.2天一天兩天之中就就有一個人死掉那另外就是說在這個職災當中這個全失能或者是永久部分失能或者是暫時全失能的這個傷害那在去年我們就看到就有一萬四千多人就是有這樣的一個狀況\n\n4\n00:01:00,441 --> 00:01:21,956\n這個是僱主有通報的那僱主如果沒有通報的話我想這個數字應該是更高所以我想請教就是說部長針對這一部分因為剛剛很多委員也有提到就是說營造業的部分那營造業很多可能就是臨時工或者是派遣工可能早上在這個派遣的這個單位然後今天來\n\n5\n00:01:27,860 --> 00:01:31,362\n馬上他就把他派到這個營造營造的這個地點那完全都沒有受到什麼樣的訓練那也許對這個公安的這種嘗試完全是沒有所以會造成譬如說墜落這麼多或者是直災的狀況這麼多那我想請教這個部長未來我們在這個勞動部的這個部分我們要怎麼去預防那另外就是說\n\n6\n00:01:55,955 --> 00:02:17,836\n呃層層發包的這個部分可能也把這個責任層層的就這個轉轉出去了嗎所以要怎麼樣讓這個企業你比如說我今天如果有一棟大樓要蓋的話那這個企業他怎麼樣也要有一些責任而不是把這個責任全部都轉到這個中包小包小小包把這個責任全部都轉出去\n\n7\n00:02:18,777 --> 00:02:32,747\n所以我想聽一下部長對於未來這樣子的一個狀況你們有什麼樣的因應方式跟黃媛說明確實現在在很多的工地裡面這個層層轉包是一個目前現況的樣態\n\n8\n00:02:35,151 --> 00:03:04,931\n那這個層層轉包的樣態狀態其實也對於很多在這個公安問題上面的究責產生了很多的困擾跟挑戰所以這也是為什麼我們其實現在在這個治安法裡面那我們也希望接下來是要指定一家廠商來做相關責任的統合那有這個有這個責任的統合才有辦法把這些不同很複雜的工程界面在風險上面做一個比較有效的管理這是第一\n\n9\n00:03:05,051 --> 00:03:23,259\n所以這個也是比方我們在去年的全聯的大火的台中全聯大火的事件的時候其實看到他們因為這個這個拼心發包或切分的太多所以造成責任很難管理的情況那我們現在也看到比方說在中捷的事件裡面\n\n10\n00:03:24,159 --> 00:03:46,040\n那業主比方說當時的這個業主他其實是台灣很大的一個相關的企業可是在這個終結的世界裡面卻很難去救責於他所以我們把業主的責任也放進來所以這幾個部分都是我們在制度面上面對於救責希望有一個新的制度上面的強化我們具體的這個修法的跟制度改善的作為是\n\n11\n00:03:46,400 --> 00:04:08,793\n好那現在就是這個職安法那職安法的話我知道上個月就是我們勞動部已經預告了就是職業安全衛生法修法草案那就是預告到4月11號那我想接下來就是說你們這邊的程序或者是進度怎樣是不是可以請部長先做一個說明\n\n12\n00:04:10,186 --> 00:04:26,880\n我們已經在這個禮拜送行政院了所以接下來大家就會進入到行政院的這個法制的程序裡面那我們也會希望跟行政院來盡量來爭取那儘速的能夠完成在院裡面的審議然後趕快送到立法院來\n\n13\n00:04:27,660 --> 00:04:42,080\n好那接下來我也想請教就是說其實一個公安意外的發生剛剛講的也許營造業它可能就是層層發包那其實很多勞工他如果\n\n14\n00:04:43,761 --> 00:05:07,047\n職災發生了第一個他也許希望能夠透過這個訴訟來究責那有時候因為訴訟這個期間也非常的長也許這個訴訟可能一年兩年那如果這個勞工他的傷害他也許需要急需要用這個用錢那這樣子的話其實我想請教就是說如果有類似這樣的一個狀況\n\n15\n00:05:08,787 --> 00:05:38,167\n勞工也許會碰到他急需用到一些經費也許這個企業或者是這個企業主他想要跟勞工做和解也許到最後勞工就是直接用和解的方式來處理掉這樣的一個公安事件其實有時候對勞工來講並不是那麼的公平所以我想請教勞動部未來如果有類似這樣的一個狀況第一個我們要怎麼樣去協助勞工\n\n16\n00:05:41,770 --> 00:05:53,267\n跟委員報告其實現在職債勞工通常在發生職債以後他就很無助所以我們在目前22個縣市都有這個我們的職業災害的專業服務人員他會及時的接觸這個勞工\n\n17\n00:05:58,254 --> 00:06:19,403\n那當然會提供剛剛委員提到的他需要一些這個職業債補償或是申請債保的給付包括他需要一些社會資源我們這個個案服務人員都會逐萬的去協助他是好所以你們針對這部分你們也有就是說如果真的意外發生的話你們在地方政府嗎\n\n18\n00:06:20,143 --> 00:06:35,191\n還是在地方政府其實在地方我們有補助然後在地方政府然後就是所謂的PASS那他會有個案性的方式來去協助我們很多職災的勞工好那其實剛剛講的真的如果一旦這個職災發生其實\n\n19\n00:06:36,972 --> 00:06:59,350\n可能就會影響到整個家庭的經濟狀況所以我也希望就是說勞動部針對這部分勞工的部分我們真的應該要把他接住因為也許他因為發生這樣的事情整個家庭經濟狀況就一落千丈所以我們希望就是說勞動部站在勞工的這個立場然後更多提供更多的協助那另外就是說我們在勞動部這邊每年\n\n20\n00:07:00,130 --> 00:07:02,953\n就是有這個全國勞檢員編制員額原本是這個2024年是1033人那實際在職是890人那其實還有還不足的部分那另外就是說我想請教就是說在106年監察院那時候就已經有\n\n21\n00:07:20,426 --> 00:07:37,926\n就是糾正勞動部就是勞檢員人力不足的這個問題那勞檢員在第一線服務的時候其實第一個可能就是高危險而且我們發現就是說這些勞檢員多半都是聘用\n\n22\n00:07:38,627 --> 00:08:00,280\n而不是正式的這個公務人員大部分都是聘用那聘用的話有的根本也不適用勞基法或者是薪資升遷或職癌這個職癌的這個發展其實處處受到限制那另外我剛剛提到就是說他只要是去第一線勞檢其實是真的還蠻危險的可能有時候會碰到僱主\n\n23\n00:08:02,762 --> 00:08:15,772\n企業主的惡言相向我相信應該你們自己本身也會聽到很多不只是言語的辱罵或者是有時候是肢體的衝突都有可能發生我想請教部長就是說\n\n24\n00:08:16,953 --> 00:08:31,612\n在之前的這個監察院就有特別提到就是說勞檢員不足也有跟你們提出糾正那另外就是說多半的勞檢員都是聘用人員那未來像類似這樣的一個狀況你們是要怎麼去改善\n\n25\n00:08:33,569 --> 00:08:47,560\n跟黃委員說明其實我們其實之前已經有爭取勞檢員他的這個危害的加級大概5000元到3000元的這個經費那我其實到部裡面以後我自己也感覺很\n\n26\n00:08:49,621 --> 00:09:03,806\n跟財政署討論好幾次我們確實發現老撿人在面對很多他的這個工作場合裡面會會有很多對他很不利或甚至威脅性的挑戰所以我們其實也定我們也會推動一個老撿人的支持的方案\n\n27\n00:09:04,386 --> 00:09:26,801\n那也包括是讓他的專業能力跟他的工作支持都能夠相關的提升那現在目前正在把這個計畫的專案包括經費的編列我們正在規劃都是希望讓勞檢人其實可以有一個更支持系統性支持的後盾那不要讓勞檢人個人去面對現場在執行業務的時候的那些風險因為有的時候那過程就會讓\n\n28\n00:09:27,642 --> 00:09:54,464\n可能老幾人個別會覺得很挫折或者是會有人身上面的安全那這部分我們其實也跟治安署我們這邊在訂立相關的計畫要來提出好那預計是什麼時候因為我覺得你們其實我們之前有開過記者會其實我們之前有開過記者會那我們現在在做在目前持續推動中那包括接下來可能相關經費的編列我們其實在正在處理的是經費編列的規劃\n\n29\n00:09:56,385 --> 00:10:19,824\n好我們希望就剛剛我們提到這麼多不論是這個職業安全的檢查或者是勞動檢查其實我們都希望說在第一線的這些勞檢員都能夠第一個這個流動率不要那麼高第二個可能就是這個高危險的這個工作總是要有一些人要做那當然剛剛部長有特別提到就是說這個預算可能會這個勞檢員的薪資也許會\n\n30\n00:10:25,248 --> 00:10:44,691\n做一些調整加急加急會做一些調整我覺得這個對第一線的勞檢員也許也是一個鼓勵啦那我們最主要是希望就是說第一線的勞檢員在工作自己本身要去做勞檢或做職安的這個檢查我覺得應該自己本身也要保護好自己啦\n\n31\n00:10:45,271 --> 00:11:07,908\n所以我覺得希望就是說這個五一勞動節是明天那我們今天排這樣的一個案子我也希望就是說勞動部站在勞工的這個立場不論是這個工作的安全也好或者是這個職場的這個霸凌的這種種種的部分我希望就是說勞動部站在勞工的立場去想所有的政策是謝謝委員好謝謝好謝謝接下來請何新淳委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6032\t6776\t謝謝主席 我們請部長\n13633\t28188\t黃委員好 部長好 部長我剛剛從早上聽到現在其實很多委員都一直關心我們這個公安的這個議題那我想請教部長就是說在去年台灣重大的這個職災那總共這個奪去了287287條這個人命那幾乎剛剛委員提到幾乎這個\n38398\t57318\t1.2天一天兩天之中就就有一個人死掉那另外就是說在這個職災當中這個全失能或者是永久部分失能或者是暫時全失能的這個傷害那在去年我們就看到就有一萬四千多人就是有這樣的一個狀況\n60441\t81956\t這個是僱主有通報的那僱主如果沒有通報的話我想這個數字應該是更高所以我想請教就是說部長針對這一部分因為剛剛很多委員也有提到就是說營造業的部分那營造業很多可能就是臨時工或者是派遣工可能早上在這個派遣的這個單位然後今天來\n87860\t91362\t馬上他就把他派到這個營造營造的這個地點那完全都沒有受到什麼樣的訓練那也許對這個公安的這種嘗試完全是沒有所以會造成譬如說墜落這麼多或者是直災的狀況這麼多那我想請教這個部長未來我們在這個勞動部的這個部分我們要怎麼去預防那另外就是說\n115955\t137836\t呃層層發包的這個部分可能也把這個責任層層的就這個轉轉出去了嗎所以要怎麼樣讓這個企業你比如說我今天如果有一棟大樓要蓋的話那這個企業他怎麼樣也要有一些責任而不是把這個責任全部都轉到這個中包小包小小包把這個責任全部都轉出去\n138777\t152747\t所以我想聽一下部長對於未來這樣子的一個狀況你們有什麼樣的因應方式跟黃媛說明確實現在在很多的工地裡面這個層層轉包是一個目前現況的樣態\n155151\t184931\t那這個層層轉包的樣態狀態其實也對於很多在這個公安問題上面的究責產生了很多的困擾跟挑戰所以這也是為什麼我們其實現在在這個治安法裡面那我們也希望接下來是要指定一家廠商來做相關責任的統合那有這個有這個責任的統合才有辦法把這些不同很複雜的工程界面在風險上面做一個比較有效的管理這是第一\n185051\t203259\t所以這個也是比方我們在去年的全聯的大火的台中全聯大火的事件的時候其實看到他們因為這個這個拼心發包或切分的太多所以造成責任很難管理的情況那我們現在也看到比方說在中捷的事件裡面\n204159\t226040\t那業主比方說當時的這個業主他其實是台灣很大的一個相關的企業可是在這個終結的世界裡面卻很難去救責於他所以我們把業主的責任也放進來所以這幾個部分都是我們在制度面上面對於救責希望有一個新的制度上面的強化我們具體的這個修法的跟制度改善的作為是\n226400\t248793\t好那現在就是這個職安法那職安法的話我知道上個月就是我們勞動部已經預告了就是職業安全衛生法修法草案那就是預告到4月11號那我想接下來就是說你們這邊的程序或者是進度怎樣是不是可以請部長先做一個說明\n250186\t266880\t我們已經在這個禮拜送行政院了所以接下來大家就會進入到行政院的這個法制的程序裡面那我們也會希望跟行政院來盡量來爭取那儘速的能夠完成在院裡面的審議然後趕快送到立法院來\n267660\t282080\t好 那接下來我也想請教就是說其實一個公安意外的發生剛剛講的也許營造業它可能就是層層發包那其實很多勞工他如果\n283761\t307047\t職災發生了第一個他也許希望能夠透過這個訴訟來究責那有時候因為訴訟這個期間也非常的長也許這個訴訟可能一年兩年那如果這個勞工他的傷害他也許需要急需要用這個用錢那這樣子的話其實我想請教就是說如果有類似這樣的一個狀況\n308787\t338167\t勞工也許會碰到他急需用到一些經費也許這個企業或者是這個企業主他想要跟勞工做和解也許到最後勞工就是直接用和解的方式來處理掉這樣的一個公安事件其實有時候對勞工來講並不是那麼的公平所以我想請教勞動部未來如果有類似這樣的一個狀況第一個我們要怎麼樣去協助勞工\n341770\t353267\t跟委員報告其實現在職債勞工通常在發生職債以後他就很無助所以我們在目前22個縣市都有這個我們的職業災害的專業服務人員他會及時的接觸這個勞工\n358254\t379403\t那當然會提供剛剛委員提到的他需要一些這個職業債補償或是申請債保的給付包括他需要一些社會資源我們這個個案服務人員都會逐萬的去協助他是好所以你們針對這部分你們也有就是說如果真的意外發生的話你們在地方政府嗎\n380143\t395191\t還是在地方政府其實在地方我們有補助然後在地方政府然後就是所謂的PASS那他會有個案性的方式來去協助我們很多職災的勞工好那其實剛剛講的真的如果一旦這個職災發生其實\n396972\t419350\t可能就會影響到整個家庭的經濟狀況所以我也希望就是說勞動部針對這部分勞工的部分我們真的應該要把他接住因為也許他因為發生這樣的事情整個家庭經濟狀況就一落千丈所以我們希望就是說勞動部站在勞工的這個立場然後更多提供更多的協助那另外就是說我們在勞動部這邊每年\n420130\t422953\t就是有這個全國勞檢員編制員額原本是這個2024年是1033人那實際在職是890人那其實還有還不足的部分那另外就是說我想請教就是說在106年監察院那時候就已經有\n440426\t457926\t就是糾正勞動部就是勞檢員人力不足的這個問題那勞檢員在第一線服務的時候其實第一個可能就是高危險而且我們發現就是說這些勞檢員多半都是聘用\n458627\t480280\t而不是正式的這個公務人員大部分都是聘用那聘用的話有的根本也不適用勞基法或者是薪資升遷或職癌這個職癌的這個發展其實處處受到限制那另外我剛剛提到就是說他只要是去第一線勞檢其實是真的還蠻危險的可能有時候會碰到僱主\n482762\t495772\t企業主的惡言相向我相信應該你們自己本身也會聽到很多不只是言語的辱罵或者是有時候是肢體的衝突都有可能發生我想請教部長就是說\n496953\t511612\t在之前的這個監察院就有特別提到就是說勞檢員不足也有跟你們提出糾正那另外就是說多半的勞檢員都是聘用人員那未來像類似這樣的一個狀況你們是要怎麼去改善\n513569\t527560\t跟黃委員說明其實我們其實之前已經有爭取勞檢員他的這個危害的加級大概5000元到3000元的這個經費那我其實到部裡面以後我自己也感覺很\n529621\t543806\t跟財政署討論好幾次我們確實發現老撿人在面對很多他的這個工作場合裡面會會有很多對他很不利或甚至威脅性的挑戰所以我們其實也定我們也會推動一個老撿人的支持的方案\n544386\t566801\t那也包括是讓他的專業能力跟他的工作支持都能夠相關的提升那現在目前正在把這個計畫的專案包括經費的編列我們正在規劃都是希望讓勞檢人其實可以有一個更支持系統性支持的後盾那不要讓勞檢人個人去面對現場在執行業務的時候的那些風險因為有的時候那過程就會讓\n567642\t594464\t可能老幾人個別會覺得很挫折或者是會有人身上面的安全那這部分我們其實也跟治安署我們這邊在訂立相關的計畫要來提出好那預計是什麼時候因為我覺得你們其實我們之前有開過記者會其實我們之前有開過記者會那我們現在在做在目前持續推動中那包括接下來可能相關經費的編列我們其實在正在處理的是經費編列的規劃\n596385\t619824\t好我們希望就剛剛我們提到這麼多不論是這個職業安全的檢查或者是勞動檢查其實我們都希望說在第一線的這些勞檢員都能夠第一個這個流動率不要那麼高第二個可能就是這個高危險的這個工作總是要有一些人要做那當然剛剛部長有特別提到就是說這個預算可能會這個勞檢員的薪資也許會\n625248\t644691\t做一些調整加急加急會做一些調整我覺得這個對第一線的勞檢員也許也是一個鼓勵啦那我們最主要是希望就是說第一線的勞檢員在工作自己本身要去做勞檢或做職安的這個檢查我覺得應該自己本身也要保護好自己啦\n645271\t667908\t所以我覺得希望就是說這個五一勞動節是明天那我們今天排這樣的一個案子我也希望就是說勞動部站在勞工的這個立場不論是這個工作的安全也好或者是這個職場的這個霸凌的這種種種的部分我希望就是說勞動部站在勞工的立場去想所有的政策是 謝謝委員好 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請何新淳委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們請部長\n黃委員好 部長好 部長我剛剛從早上聽到現在其實很多委員都一直關心我們這個公安的這個議題那我想請教部長就是說在去年台灣重大的這個職災那總共這個奪去了287287條這個人命那幾乎剛剛委員提到幾乎這個\n1.2天一天兩天之中就就有一個人死掉那另外就是說在這個職災當中這個全失能或者是永久部分失能或者是暫時全失能的這個傷害那在去年我們就看到就有一萬四千多人就是有這樣的一個狀況\n這個是僱主有通報的那僱主如果沒有通報的話我想這個數字應該是更高所以我想請教就是說部長針對這一部分因為剛剛很多委員也有提到就是說營造業的部分那營造業很多可能就是臨時工或者是派遣工可能早上在這個派遣的這個單位然後今天來\n馬上他就把他派到這個營造營造的這個地點那完全都沒有受到什麼樣的訓練那也許對這個公安的這種嘗試完全是沒有所以會造成譬如說墜落這麼多或者是直災的狀況這麼多那我想請教這個部長未來我們在這個勞動部的這個部分我們要怎麼去預防那另外就是說\n呃層層發包的這個部分可能也把這個責任層層的就這個轉轉出去了嗎所以要怎麼樣讓這個企業你比如說我今天如果有一棟大樓要蓋的話那這個企業他怎麼樣也要有一些責任而不是把這個責任全部都轉到這個中包小包小小包把這個責任全部都轉出去\n所以我想聽一下部長對於未來這樣子的一個狀況你們有什麼樣的因應方式跟黃媛說明確實現在在很多的工地裡面這個層層轉包是一個目前現況的樣態\n那這個層層轉包的樣態狀態其實也對於很多在這個公安問題上面的究責產生了很多的困擾跟挑戰所以這也是為什麼我們其實現在在這個治安法裡面那我們也希望接下來是要指定一家廠商來做相關責任的統合那有這個有這個責任的統合才有辦法把這些不同很複雜的工程界面在風險上面做一個比較有效的管理這是第一\n所以這個也是比方我們在去年的全聯的大火的台中全聯大火的事件的時候其實看到他們因為這個這個拼心發包或切分的太多所以造成責任很難管理的情況那我們現在也看到比方說在中捷的事件裡面\n那業主比方說當時的這個業主他其實是台灣很大的一個相關的企業可是在這個終結的世界裡面卻很難去救責於他所以我們把業主的責任也放進來所以這幾個部分都是我們在制度面上面對於救責希望有一個新的制度上面的強化我們具體的這個修法的跟制度改善的作為是\n好那現在就是這個職安法那職安法的話我知道上個月就是我們勞動部已經預告了就是職業安全衛生法修法草案那就是預告到4月11號那我想接下來就是說你們這邊的程序或者是進度怎樣是不是可以請部長先做一個說明\n我們已經在這個禮拜送行政院了所以接下來大家就會進入到行政院的這個法制的程序裡面那我們也會希望跟行政院來盡量來爭取那儘速的能夠完成在院裡面的審議然後趕快送到立法院來\n好 那接下來我也想請教就是說其實一個公安意外的發生剛剛講的也許營造業它可能就是層層發包那其實很多勞工他如果\n職災發生了第一個他也許希望能夠透過這個訴訟來究責那有時候因為訴訟這個期間也非常的長也許這個訴訟可能一年兩年那如果這個勞工他的傷害他也許需要急需要用這個用錢那這樣子的話其實我想請教就是說如果有類似這樣的一個狀況\n勞工也許會碰到他急需用到一些經費也許這個企業或者是這個企業主他想要跟勞工做和解也許到最後勞工就是直接用和解的方式來處理掉這樣的一個公安事件其實有時候對勞工來講並不是那麼的公平所以我想請教勞動部未來如果有類似這樣的一個狀況第一個我們要怎麼樣去協助勞工\n跟委員報告其實現在職債勞工通常在發生職債以後他就很無助所以我們在目前22個縣市都有這個我們的職業災害的專業服務人員他會及時的接觸這個勞工\n那當然會提供剛剛委員提到的他需要一些這個職業債補償或是申請債保的給付包括他需要一些社會資源我們這個個案服務人員都會逐萬的去協助他是好所以你們針對這部分你們也有就是說如果真的意外發生的話你們在地方政府嗎\n還是在地方政府其實在地方我們有補助然後在地方政府然後就是所謂的PASS那他會有個案性的方式來去協助我們很多職災的勞工好那其實剛剛講的真的如果一旦這個職災發生其實\n可能就會影響到整個家庭的經濟狀況所以我也希望就是說勞動部針對這部分勞工的部分我們真的應該要把他接住因為也許他因為發生這樣的事情整個家庭經濟狀況就一落千丈所以我們希望就是說勞動部站在勞工的這個立場然後更多提供更多的協助那另外就是說我們在勞動部這邊每年\n就是有這個全國勞檢員編制員額原本是這個2024年是1033人那實際在職是890人那其實還有還不足的部分那另外就是說我想請教就是說在106年監察院那時候就已經有\n就是糾正勞動部就是勞檢員人力不足的這個問題那勞檢員在第一線服務的時候其實第一個可能就是高危險而且我們發現就是說這些勞檢員多半都是聘用\n而不是正式的這個公務人員大部分都是聘用那聘用的話有的根本也不適用勞基法或者是薪資升遷或職癌這個職癌的這個發展其實處處受到限制那另外我剛剛提到就是說他只要是去第一線勞檢其實是真的還蠻危險的可能有時候會碰到僱主\n企業主的惡言相向我相信應該你們自己本身也會聽到很多不只是言語的辱罵或者是有時候是肢體的衝突都有可能發生我想請教部長就是說\n在之前的這個監察院就有特別提到就是說勞檢員不足也有跟你們提出糾正那另外就是說多半的勞檢員都是聘用人員那未來像類似這樣的一個狀況你們是要怎麼去改善\n跟黃委員說明其實我們其實之前已經有爭取勞檢員他的這個危害的加級大概5000元到3000元的這個經費那我其實到部裡面以後我自己也感覺很\n跟財政署討論好幾次我們確實發現老撿人在面對很多他的這個工作場合裡面會會有很多對他很不利或甚至威脅性的挑戰所以我們其實也定我們也會推動一個老撿人的支持的方案\n那也包括是讓他的專業能力跟他的工作支持都能夠相關的提升那現在目前正在把這個計畫的專案包括經費的編列我們正在規劃都是希望讓勞檢人其實可以有一個更支持系統性支持的後盾那不要讓勞檢人個人去面對現場在執行業務的時候的那些風險因為有的時候那過程就會讓\n可能老幾人個別會覺得很挫折或者是會有人身上面的安全那這部分我們其實也跟治安署我們這邊在訂立相關的計畫要來提出好那預計是什麼時候因為我覺得你們其實我們之前有開過記者會其實我們之前有開過記者會那我們現在在做在目前持續推動中那包括接下來可能相關經費的編列我們其實在正在處理的是經費編列的規劃\n好我們希望就剛剛我們提到這麼多不論是這個職業安全的檢查或者是勞動檢查其實我們都希望說在第一線的這些勞檢員都能夠第一個這個流動率不要那麼高第二個可能就是這個高危險的這個工作總是要有一些人要做那當然剛剛部長有特別提到就是說這個預算可能會這個勞檢員的薪資也許會\n做一些調整加急加急會做一些調整我覺得這個對第一線的勞檢員也許也是一個鼓勵啦那我們最主要是希望就是說第一線的勞檢員在工作自己本身要去做勞檢或做職安的這個檢查我覺得應該自己本身也要保護好自己啦\n所以我覺得希望就是說這個五一勞動節是明天那我們今天排這樣的一個案子我也希望就是說勞動部站在勞工的這個立場不論是這個工作的安全也好或者是這個職場的這個霸凌的這種種種的部分我希望就是說勞動部站在勞工的立場去想所有的政策是 謝謝委員好 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請何新淳委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.032 --> 00:06.776\n謝謝主席我們請部長\n\n00:13.633 --> 00:28.188\n黃委員好部長好部長我剛剛從早上聽到現在其實很多委員都一直關心我們這個公安的這個議題那我想請教部長就是說在去年台灣重大的這個職災那總共這個奪去了287287條這個人命那幾乎剛剛委員提到幾乎這個\n\n00:38.398 --> 00:57.318\n1.2天一天兩天之中就就有一個人死掉那另外就是說在這個職災當中這個全失能或者是永久部分失能或者是暫時全失能的這個傷害那在去年我們就看到就有一萬四千多人就是有這樣的一個狀況\n\n01:00.441 --> 01:21.956\n這個是僱主有通報的那僱主如果沒有通報的話我想這個數字應該是更高所以我想請教就是說部長針對這一部分因為剛剛很多委員也有提到就是說營造業的部分那營造業很多可能就是臨時工或者是派遣工可能早上在這個派遣的這個單位然後今天來\n\n01:27.860 --> 01:31.362\n馬上他就把他派到這個營造營造的這個地點那完全都沒有受到什麼樣的訓練那也許對這個公安的這種嘗試完全是沒有所以會造成譬如說墜落這麼多或者是直災的狀況這麼多那我想請教這個部長未來我們在這個勞動部的這個部分我們要怎麼去預防那另外就是說\n\n01:55.955 --> 02:17.836\n呃層層發包的這個部分可能也把這個責任層層的就這個轉轉出去了嗎所以要怎麼樣讓這個企業你比如說我今天如果有一棟大樓要蓋的話那這個企業他怎麼樣也要有一些責任而不是把這個責任全部都轉到這個中包小包小小包把這個責任全部都轉出去\n\n02:18.777 --> 02:32.747\n所以我想聽一下部長對於未來這樣子的一個狀況你們有什麼樣的因應方式跟黃媛說明確實現在在很多的工地裡面這個層層轉包是一個目前現況的樣態\n\n02:35.151 --> 03:04.931\n那這個層層轉包的樣態狀態其實也對於很多在這個公安問題上面的究責產生了很多的困擾跟挑戰所以這也是為什麼我們其實現在在這個治安法裡面那我們也希望接下來是要指定一家廠商來做相關責任的統合那有這個有這個責任的統合才有辦法把這些不同很複雜的工程界面在風險上面做一個比較有效的管理這是第一\n\n03:05.051 --> 03:23.259\n所以這個也是比方我們在去年的全聯的大火的台中全聯大火的事件的時候其實看到他們因為這個這個拼心發包或切分的太多所以造成責任很難管理的情況那我們現在也看到比方說在中捷的事件裡面\n\n03:24.159 --> 03:46.040\n那業主比方說當時的這個業主他其實是台灣很大的一個相關的企業可是在這個終結的世界裡面卻很難去救責於他所以我們把業主的責任也放進來所以這幾個部分都是我們在制度面上面對於救責希望有一個新的制度上面的強化我們具體的這個修法的跟制度改善的作為是\n\n03:46.400 --> 04:08.793\n好那現在就是這個職安法那職安法的話我知道上個月就是我們勞動部已經預告了就是職業安全衛生法修法草案那就是預告到4月11號那我想接下來就是說你們這邊的程序或者是進度怎樣是不是可以請部長先做一個說明\n\n04:10.186 --> 04:26.880\n我們已經在這個禮拜送行政院了所以接下來大家就會進入到行政院的這個法制的程序裡面那我們也會希望跟行政院來盡量來爭取那儘速的能夠完成在院裡面的審議然後趕快送到立法院來\n\n04:27.660 --> 04:42.080\n好那接下來我也想請教就是說其實一個公安意外的發生剛剛講的也許營造業它可能就是層層發包那其實很多勞工他如果\n\n04:43.761 --> 05:07.047\n職災發生了第一個他也許希望能夠透過這個訴訟來究責那有時候因為訴訟這個期間也非常的長也許這個訴訟可能一年兩年那如果這個勞工他的傷害他也許需要急需要用這個用錢那這樣子的話其實我想請教就是說如果有類似這樣的一個狀況\n\n05:08.787 --> 05:38.167\n勞工也許會碰到他急需用到一些經費也許這個企業或者是這個企業主他想要跟勞工做和解也許到最後勞工就是直接用和解的方式來處理掉這樣的一個公安事件其實有時候對勞工來講並不是那麼的公平所以我想請教勞動部未來如果有類似這樣的一個狀況第一個我們要怎麼樣去協助勞工\n\n05:41.770 --> 05:53.267\n跟委員報告其實現在職債勞工通常在發生職債以後他就很無助所以我們在目前22個縣市都有這個我們的職業災害的專業服務人員他會及時的接觸這個勞工\n\n05:58.254 --> 06:19.403\n那當然會提供剛剛委員提到的他需要一些這個職業債補償或是申請債保的給付包括他需要一些社會資源我們這個個案服務人員都會逐萬的去協助他是好所以你們針對這部分你們也有就是說如果真的意外發生的話你們在地方政府嗎\n\n06:20.143 --> 06:35.191\n還是在地方政府其實在地方我們有補助然後在地方政府然後就是所謂的PASS那他會有個案性的方式來去協助我們很多職災的勞工好那其實剛剛講的真的如果一旦這個職災發生其實\n\n06:36.972 --> 06:59.350\n可能就會影響到整個家庭的經濟狀況所以我也希望就是說勞動部針對這部分勞工的部分我們真的應該要把他接住因為也許他因為發生這樣的事情整個家庭經濟狀況就一落千丈所以我們希望就是說勞動部站在勞工的這個立場然後更多提供更多的協助那另外就是說我們在勞動部這邊每年\n\n07:00.130 --> 07:02.953\n就是有這個全國勞檢員編制員額原本是這個2024年是1033人那實際在職是890人那其實還有還不足的部分那另外就是說我想請教就是說在106年監察院那時候就已經有\n\n07:20.426 --> 07:37.926\n就是糾正勞動部就是勞檢員人力不足的這個問題那勞檢員在第一線服務的時候其實第一個可能就是高危險而且我們發現就是說這些勞檢員多半都是聘用\n\n07:38.627 --> 08:00.280\n而不是正式的這個公務人員大部分都是聘用那聘用的話有的根本也不適用勞基法或者是薪資升遷或職癌這個職癌的這個發展其實處處受到限制那另外我剛剛提到就是說他只要是去第一線勞檢其實是真的還蠻危險的可能有時候會碰到僱主\n\n08:02.762 --> 08:15.772\n企業主的惡言相向我相信應該你們自己本身也會聽到很多不只是言語的辱罵或者是有時候是肢體的衝突都有可能發生我想請教部長就是說\n\n08:16.953 --> 08:31.612\n在之前的這個監察院就有特別提到就是說勞檢員不足也有跟你們提出糾正那另外就是說多半的勞檢員都是聘用人員那未來像類似這樣的一個狀況你們是要怎麼去改善\n\n08:33.569 --> 08:47.560\n跟黃委員說明其實我們其實之前已經有爭取勞檢員他的這個危害的加級大概5000元到3000元的這個經費那我其實到部裡面以後我自己也感覺很\n\n08:49.621 --> 09:03.806\n跟財政署討論好幾次我們確實發現老撿人在面對很多他的這個工作場合裡面會會有很多對他很不利或甚至威脅性的挑戰所以我們其實也定我們也會推動一個老撿人的支持的方案\n\n09:04.386 --> 09:26.801\n那也包括是讓他的專業能力跟他的工作支持都能夠相關的提升那現在目前正在把這個計畫的專案包括經費的編列我們正在規劃都是希望讓勞檢人其實可以有一個更支持系統性支持的後盾那不要讓勞檢人個人去面對現場在執行業務的時候的那些風險因為有的時候那過程就會讓\n\n09:27.642 --> 09:54.464\n可能老幾人個別會覺得很挫折或者是會有人身上面的安全那這部分我們其實也跟治安署我們這邊在訂立相關的計畫要來提出好那預計是什麼時候因為我覺得你們其實我們之前有開過記者會其實我們之前有開過記者會那我們現在在做在目前持續推動中那包括接下來可能相關經費的編列我們其實在正在處理的是經費編列的規劃\n\n09:56.385 --> 10:19.824\n好我們希望就剛剛我們提到這麼多不論是這個職業安全的檢查或者是勞動檢查其實我們都希望說在第一線的這些勞檢員都能夠第一個這個流動率不要那麼高第二個可能就是這個高危險的這個工作總是要有一些人要做那當然剛剛部長有特別提到就是說這個預算可能會這個勞檢員的薪資也許會\n\n10:25.248 --> 10:44.691\n做一些調整加急加急會做一些調整我覺得這個對第一線的勞檢員也許也是一個鼓勵啦那我們最主要是希望就是說第一線的勞檢員在工作自己本身要去做勞檢或做職安的這個檢查我覺得應該自己本身也要保護好自己啦\n\n10:45.271 --> 11:07.908\n所以我覺得希望就是說這個五一勞動節是明天那我們今天排這樣的一個案子我也希望就是說勞動部站在勞工的這個立場不論是這個工作的安全也好或者是這個職場的這個霸凌的這種種種的部分我希望就是說勞動部站在勞工的立場去想所有的政策是謝謝委員好謝謝好謝謝接下來請何新淳委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.032,"end":6.776,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請部長"},{"start":13.633,"end":28.188,"text":"黃委員好 部長好 部長我剛剛從早上聽到現在其實很多委員都一直關心我們這個公安的這個議題那我想請教部長就是說在去年台灣重大的這個職災那總共這個奪去了287287條這個人命那幾乎剛剛委員提到幾乎這個"},{"start":38.398,"end":57.318,"text":"1.2天一天兩天之中就就有一個人死掉那另外就是說在這個職災當中這個全失能或者是永久部分失能或者是暫時全失能的這個傷害那在去年我們就看到就有一萬四千多人就是有這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":60.441,"end":81.956,"text":"這個是僱主有通報的那僱主如果沒有通報的話我想這個數字應該是更高所以我想請教就是說部長針對這一部分因為剛剛很多委員也有提到就是說營造業的部分那營造業很多可能就是臨時工或者是派遣工可能早上在這個派遣的這個單位然後今天來"},{"start":87.86,"end":91.362,"text":"馬上他就把他派到這個營造營造的這個地點那完全都沒有受到什麼樣的訓練那也許對這個公安的這種嘗試完全是沒有所以會造成譬如說墜落這麼多或者是直災的狀況這麼多那我想請教這個部長未來我們在這個勞動部的這個部分我們要怎麼去預防那另外就是說"},{"start":115.955,"end":137.836,"text":"呃層層發包的這個部分可能也把這個責任層層的就這個轉轉出去了嗎所以要怎麼樣讓這個企業你比如說我今天如果有一棟大樓要蓋的話那這個企業他怎麼樣也要有一些責任而不是把這個責任全部都轉到這個中包小包小小包把這個責任全部都轉出去"},{"start":138.777,"end":152.747,"text":"所以我想聽一下部長對於未來這樣子的一個狀況你們有什麼樣的因應方式跟黃媛說明確實現在在很多的工地裡面這個層層轉包是一個目前現況的樣態"},{"start":155.151,"end":184.931,"text":"那這個層層轉包的樣態狀態其實也對於很多在這個公安問題上面的究責產生了很多的困擾跟挑戰所以這也是為什麼我們其實現在在這個治安法裡面那我們也希望接下來是要指定一家廠商來做相關責任的統合那有這個有這個責任的統合才有辦法把這些不同很複雜的工程界面在風險上面做一個比較有效的管理這是第一"},{"start":185.051,"end":203.259,"text":"所以這個也是比方我們在去年的全聯的大火的台中全聯大火的事件的時候其實看到他們因為這個這個拼心發包或切分的太多所以造成責任很難管理的情況那我們現在也看到比方說在中捷的事件裡面"},{"start":204.159,"end":226.04,"text":"那業主比方說當時的這個業主他其實是台灣很大的一個相關的企業可是在這個終結的世界裡面卻很難去救責於他所以我們把業主的責任也放進來所以這幾個部分都是我們在制度面上面對於救責希望有一個新的制度上面的強化我們具體的這個修法的跟制度改善的作為是"},{"start":226.4,"end":248.793,"text":"好那現在就是這個職安法那職安法的話我知道上個月就是我們勞動部已經預告了就是職業安全衛生法修法草案那就是預告到4月11號那我想接下來就是說你們這邊的程序或者是進度怎樣是不是可以請部長先做一個說明"},{"start":250.186,"end":266.88,"text":"我們已經在這個禮拜送行政院了所以接下來大家就會進入到行政院的這個法制的程序裡面那我們也會希望跟行政院來盡量來爭取那儘速的能夠完成在院裡面的審議然後趕快送到立法院來"},{"start":267.66,"end":282.08,"text":"好 那接下來我也想請教就是說其實一個公安意外的發生剛剛講的也許營造業它可能就是層層發包那其實很多勞工他如果"},{"start":283.761,"end":307.047,"text":"職災發生了第一個他也許希望能夠透過這個訴訟來究責那有時候因為訴訟這個期間也非常的長也許這個訴訟可能一年兩年那如果這個勞工他的傷害他也許需要急需要用這個用錢那這樣子的話其實我想請教就是說如果有類似這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":308.787,"end":338.167,"text":"勞工也許會碰到他急需用到一些經費也許這個企業或者是這個企業主他想要跟勞工做和解也許到最後勞工就是直接用和解的方式來處理掉這樣的一個公安事件其實有時候對勞工來講並不是那麼的公平所以我想請教勞動部未來如果有類似這樣的一個狀況第一個我們要怎麼樣去協助勞工"},{"start":341.77,"end":353.267,"text":"跟委員報告其實現在職債勞工通常在發生職債以後他就很無助所以我們在目前22個縣市都有這個我們的職業災害的專業服務人員他會及時的接觸這個勞工"},{"start":358.254,"end":379.403,"text":"那當然會提供剛剛委員提到的他需要一些這個職業債補償或是申請債保的給付包括他需要一些社會資源我們這個個案服務人員都會逐萬的去協助他是好所以你們針對這部分你們也有就是說如果真的意外發生的話你們在地方政府嗎"},{"start":380.143,"end":395.191,"text":"還是在地方政府其實在地方我們有補助然後在地方政府然後就是所謂的PASS那他會有個案性的方式來去協助我們很多職災的勞工好那其實剛剛講的真的如果一旦這個職災發生其實"},{"start":396.972,"end":419.35,"text":"可能就會影響到整個家庭的經濟狀況所以我也希望就是說勞動部針對這部分勞工的部分我們真的應該要把他接住因為也許他因為發生這樣的事情整個家庭經濟狀況就一落千丈所以我們希望就是說勞動部站在勞工的這個立場然後更多提供更多的協助那另外就是說我們在勞動部這邊每年"},{"start":420.13,"end":422.953,"text":"就是有這個全國勞檢員編制員額原本是這個2024年是1033人那實際在職是890人那其實還有還不足的部分那另外就是說我想請教就是說在106年監察院那時候就已經有"},{"start":440.426,"end":457.926,"text":"就是糾正勞動部就是勞檢員人力不足的這個問題那勞檢員在第一線服務的時候其實第一個可能就是高危險而且我們發現就是說這些勞檢員多半都是聘用"},{"start":458.627,"end":480.28,"text":"而不是正式的這個公務人員大部分都是聘用那聘用的話有的根本也不適用勞基法或者是薪資升遷或職癌這個職癌的這個發展其實處處受到限制那另外我剛剛提到就是說他只要是去第一線勞檢其實是真的還蠻危險的可能有時候會碰到僱主"},{"start":482.762,"end":495.772,"text":"企業主的惡言相向我相信應該你們自己本身也會聽到很多不只是言語的辱罵或者是有時候是肢體的衝突都有可能發生我想請教部長就是說"},{"start":496.953,"end":511.612,"text":"在之前的這個監察院就有特別提到就是說勞檢員不足也有跟你們提出糾正那另外就是說多半的勞檢員都是聘用人員那未來像類似這樣的一個狀況你們是要怎麼去改善"},{"start":513.569,"end":527.56,"text":"跟黃委員說明其實我們其實之前已經有爭取勞檢員他的這個危害的加級大概5000元到3000元的這個經費那我其實到部裡面以後我自己也感覺很"},{"start":529.621,"end":543.806,"text":"跟財政署討論好幾次我們確實發現老撿人在面對很多他的這個工作場合裡面會會有很多對他很不利或甚至威脅性的挑戰所以我們其實也定我們也會推動一個老撿人的支持的方案"},{"start":544.386,"end":566.801,"text":"那也包括是讓他的專業能力跟他的工作支持都能夠相關的提升那現在目前正在把這個計畫的專案包括經費的編列我們正在規劃都是希望讓勞檢人其實可以有一個更支持系統性支持的後盾那不要讓勞檢人個人去面對現場在執行業務的時候的那些風險因為有的時候那過程就會讓"},{"start":567.642,"end":594.464,"text":"可能老幾人個別會覺得很挫折或者是會有人身上面的安全那這部分我們其實也跟治安署我們這邊在訂立相關的計畫要來提出好那預計是什麼時候因為我覺得你們其實我們之前有開過記者會其實我們之前有開過記者會那我們現在在做在目前持續推動中那包括接下來可能相關經費的編列我們其實在正在處理的是經費編列的規劃"},{"start":596.385,"end":619.824,"text":"好我們希望就剛剛我們提到這麼多不論是這個職業安全的檢查或者是勞動檢查其實我們都希望說在第一線的這些勞檢員都能夠第一個這個流動率不要那麼高第二個可能就是這個高危險的這個工作總是要有一些人要做那當然剛剛部長有特別提到就是說這個預算可能會這個勞檢員的薪資也許會"},{"start":625.248,"end":644.691,"text":"做一些調整加急加急會做一些調整我覺得這個對第一線的勞檢員也許也是一個鼓勵啦那我們最主要是希望就是說第一線的勞檢員在工作自己本身要去做勞檢或做職安的這個檢查我覺得應該自己本身也要保護好自己啦"},{"start":645.271,"end":667.908,"text":"所以我覺得希望就是說這個五一勞動節是明天那我們今天排這樣的一個案子我也希望就是說勞動部站在勞工的這個立場不論是這個工作的安全也好或者是這個職場的這個霸凌的這種種種的部分我希望就是說勞動部站在勞工的立場去想所有的政策是 謝謝委員好 謝謝好 謝謝接下來請何新淳委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":866,"blocks":[["黃委員秀芳：（12時23分）謝謝主席，我請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["洪部長申翰：黃委員好。"],["黃委員秀芳：部長好。部長，我從早上聽到現在，其實有很多委員都一直關心工安議題。那我想請教部長，去年臺灣重大職災總共奪去了287條人命，也如剛剛有委員提到的，幾乎每1.2天、也就是一天、兩天之中就有一個人死掉。另外，在職災當中的全失能、永久部分失能或暫時全失能傷害，我們看到去年就有一萬四千多人有這樣的狀況。這是雇主有通報的，如果計入雇主沒有通報的，我想這個數字應該更高。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["黃委員秀芳：所以我想請教部長，針對這部分，剛剛很多委員也提到營造業。營造業有很多可能是臨時工或派遣工，今天早上才來，派遣單位馬上把他派到營造地點，勞工完全沒有受到什麼樣的訓練，對於工安的常識也許完全沒有，所以造成的墜落事件或職災狀況這麼多。我想請教部長，勞動部未來對這個部分要怎麼預防？另外，層層發包也可能把責任層層……"],["洪部長申翰：轉嫁。"],["黃委員秀芳：轉出去了，所以要怎麼讓企業負責？譬如說今天有一棟大樓要蓋的話，該企業怎麼樣也要負一些責任，而不是把責任全部轉到中包、小包、小小包，把責任全部轉出去。所以我想聽一下部長的說明，對於這樣的狀況，你們未來有什麼樣的因應方式？"],["洪部長申翰：跟黃委員說明，確實在很多工地裡面，層層轉包是現況的樣態，這個層層轉包的狀態對於工安問題上的究責其實產生很多困擾跟挑戰，這也是為什麼我們接下來希望在職安法裡面指定由一家廠商做相關責任的統合。有了責任的統合，才有辦法針對這些不同的複雜工程介面在風險上做比較有效的管理，這是第一點。比方說，我們在去年的臺中全聯大火事件中看到廠商因為平行發包或切分得太多，造成責任很難管理的情況。我們現在也看到，在中捷事件裡面，當時的業主其實是臺灣一家很大的相關企業，可是在中捷事件裡面卻很難究責於它，所以我們要把業主的責任也放進來。這幾個部分都讓我們希望在制度面針對究責做新的強化，包括具體的修法跟制度改善的作為。"],["黃委員秀芳：是。那現在就談職安法，我知道上個月勞動部已經預告職業安全衛生法修法草案，預告期間到4月11日，那我想請問接下來你們這邊的程序或進度怎樣，是不是可以請部長先做說明？"],["洪部長申翰：我們已經在這個禮拜送行政院，所以接下來大概就會進入行政院的法制程序。我們也會儘量向行政院爭取，希望儘速完成院裡面的審議，然後趕快送到立法院來。"],["黃委員秀芳：好。其實工安意外的發生如同剛剛講的，也許是因為營造業層層發包。當職災發生，很多勞工第一時間也許希望透過訴訟究責，但有時候訴訟期間非常長，也許要訴訟一年、兩年，但這個勞工可能因為這次傷害急需用錢。對於類似這樣的狀況，也就是碰到勞工急需用到一些經費，若企業主也想跟勞工和解，也許到最後勞工就直接用和解的方式處理掉這樣的工安事件，但有時候對勞工來講其實並不是那麼公平。所以我想請教勞動部，未來如果有類似這樣的狀況，第一步要怎麼協助勞工？"],["林署長毓堂：跟委員報告，其實現在職災勞工在發生職災以後通常很無助，所以我們目前在22個縣市都有職業災害專業服務人員，他會即時接住該勞工，當然也會提供剛剛委員提到的，包括他需要一些職業災害補償或申請災保給付，包括他需要一些社會資源，我們的個案服務人員都會逐案去協助他們。"],["黃委員秀芳：是。好，所以針對這部分，如果真的有意外發生的話，是在地方政府嗎？還是在……"],["林署長毓堂：在地方政府。"],["洪部長申翰：我們有補助，然後在地方政府，就是所謂的PAS，會用個案性的方式去協助職災的勞工。"],["黃委員秀芳：好。就像剛剛講的，一旦職災發生，可能就會影響到整個家庭的經濟狀況，所以我也希望勞動部針對這部分勞工，真的應該要把他們接住，因為他們也許因為發生這樣的事情，造成整個家庭經濟狀況一落千丈，所以我們也希望勞動部站在勞工的立場，提供更多的協助。","另外，勞動部全國勞檢員編制員額在2024年是1,033人，實際在職是890人，其實還有不足的部分。我想請教，民國106年監察院已經糾正勞動部勞檢員人力不足的問題，勞檢員在第一線服務的時候，可能就是在高危險的環境，而且我們發現，這些勞檢員多半都是聘用，而不是正式的公務人員，大部分都是聘用，聘用人員有的根本也不適用勞基法，或者是在薪資、升遷或職涯發展，處處受到限制。另外，我剛剛提到，他們主要是去第一線勞檢，其實真的是還滿危險的，可能有時候會碰到雇主或企業主的惡言相向，我相信你們自己本身也會聽到很多，不只是言語的辱罵，有時候是肢體的衝突，都有可能發生。我想請教部長，之前監察院就有特別提到勞檢員不足，也有跟你們提出糾正；另外，勞檢員多半都是聘用人員，那未來類似這樣的狀況，你們要怎麼去改善？"],["洪部長申翰：跟黃委員說明，其實我們之前已經有爭取勞檢員危害加給大概是5,000元到3,000元的經費，我到部裡面以後，也跟職安署討論好幾次，我們確實發現勞檢員在面對很多工作的場合裡面，會有很多對他們不利或甚至是威脅性的挑戰，所以我們也會推動勞檢員的支持方案，也包括讓他們的專業能力跟他們的工作支持都能夠提升。目前這個計畫的專案，包括經費的編列，我們正在規劃，都是希望讓勞檢人員可以有一個系統性支持的後盾，不要讓勞檢員個人去面對現場執行業務時的那些風險，因為有的時候那個過程就會讓勞檢員個人覺得很挫折，或者是會有人身上面的安全疑慮，就這個部分我們也跟職安署訂定相關的計畫要來提出。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，那預計是什麼時候？因為我覺得你們……"],["洪部長申翰：其實我們之前有開過記者會，現在持續推動中，包括接下來可能相關經費的編列，我們正在處理的是經費編列的規劃。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，剛剛我們提到這麼多，不論是職業安全的檢查或者是勞動檢查，其實我們都希望在第一線的這些勞檢員都能夠，第一個，流動率不要那麼高；第二個，這個高危險的工作總是要有人要做。剛剛部長有特別提到，勞檢員的薪資也許會做一些調整……"],["林署長毓堂：加給。"],["黃委員秀芳：加給會做一些調整，我覺得這個對第一線的勞檢員也許也是一個鼓勵。我們最主要是希望第一線的勞檢員自己本身要去做勞檢或職安的檢查時也要保護好自己。明天是五一勞動節，我們今天排這樣的案子，我也希望勞動部站在勞工的立場，不論是工作的安全或是職場霸凌種種，我希望勞動部站在勞工的立場去設想所有的政策，好不好？"],["洪部長申翰：是。謝謝委員。"],["黃委員秀芳：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請何欣純委員、何欣純委員，何欣純委員不在。","請王鴻薇委員、王鴻薇委員，王鴻薇委員不在。","請洪孟楷委員、洪孟楷委員，洪孟楷委員不在。","請伍麗華委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":358,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-9","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍","王育敏","林淑芬","王正旭","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","麥玉珍","陳培瑜","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","楊曜","陳瑩"],"page_start":291,"meetingDate":["2025-04-30"],"gazette_id":"1144501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144501_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長、經濟部及內政部就「五一勞動節前夕，我國勞工職場預防職業災害及場（廠）\n墜落事故之檢討與精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144501_00006"}}}