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{\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 849.707, \"end\": 849.988, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"鐵\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 849.988, \"end\": 850.208, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 850.208, \"end\": 850.928, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 850.928, \"end\": 851.068, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 851.068, \"end\": 851.288, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 851.288, \"end\": 851.428, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 851.428, \"end\": 851.548, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 851.548, \"end\": 851.749, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 851.749, \"end\": 851.989, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"油\", \"start\": 851.989, \"end\": 852.669, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 852.669, \"end\": 852.809, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 852.809, \"end\": 853.029, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 853.029, \"end\": 853.209, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 853.209, \"end\": 853.71, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 853.71, \"end\": 853.99, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 853.99, \"end\": 854.13, \"score\": 0.697}, {\"word\": \"票\", \"start\": 854.13, \"end\": 854.69, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 854.69, \"end\": 854.97, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 854.97, \"end\": 855.211, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 855.211, \"end\": 855.391, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 855.391, \"end\": 855.511, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 855.511, \"end\": 856.271, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 856.271, \"end\": 856.411, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 856.411, \"end\": 856.531, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 856.531, \"end\": 856.731, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 856.731, \"end\": 856.751, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,022 --> 00:00:29,044\n好謝謝主席有請我們交通部陳部長好交通部陳部長鐵道局楊局長好鐵道局楊局長台鐵公司馮總好馮總有到嗎台鐵台鐵吳總吳董事長吳董事長台鐵台鐵嗎台鐵來吳董事長吳董事長台鐵公司本身沒來你就代表了有有有台鐵公司那個總經理也在啊還有總經理也有來\n\n2\n00:00:33,786 --> 00:00:59,765\n沒有啦不見啦喔沒有好進來進來總經理來委員好好首先我們討論鐵道的一個安全啦當然除了這個軌道本身鐵路本身之外我們整個戰區的安全也是整體安全之一啦那這個部分\n\n3\n00:01:00,845 --> 00:01:03,087\n好幾個問題第一個部長電梯大概你可以撐幾分鐘關在裡面耐力有沒有測試過有沒有不小心被測試過\n\n4\n00:01:25,189 --> 00:01:43,547\n沒有不小心被測試過但如果超過5分鐘我大概會蠻害怕我是覺得我最多10分鐘我會受不了5分鐘我覺得還是我覺得馮總經理你會不會比較容易因為台鐵訓練的關係大概在電梯裡面可以撐多久一般大概15分鐘應該就是好那4月19號發生了這個因為\n\n5\n00:01:46,910 --> 00:02:03,030\n你在中壢站全台灣吞吐量第三大站而且你又在你的管制區內的電梯其實人經常是還滿滿的所以那種壓力比我們一般一個人兩個人在電梯裡面壓力是更大\n\n6\n00:02:04,151 --> 00:02:22,332\n那我們現在的問題點是發生什麼事4月19號之後他按當時有這個通知所以他這個新聞是5天之後才做的然後記者是裡面沒有幾人他在測試結果在測試的過程中他測試結果說怎麼找不到人然後按照上面的電話去打\n\n7\n00:02:23,953 --> 00:02:39,515\n打個電話說在開會下午一點打電話開會然後到四點了三個小時啊到時候人還沒來還好是實驗啊就演習啊可是回到四月十九號真正那天電梯裡面人是很多的然後按\n\n8\n00:02:40,697 --> 00:02:54,819\n緊急對講機這個我們最後了解我們台鐵公司有人接喔有人的值班好像是副站長第一時間就走到電梯旁邊就跟他們對看對看可是對看沒什麼用嘛那\n\n9\n00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:24,013\n發生什麼事就要請這個修電梯的來最後40分鐘40分鐘等他40分鐘真的是也沒有辦法在場的消防隊還是消防隊把他打開的所以我要拜託你們因為各地都有這樣的一個電梯而且你們包括還沒上台的這個高鐵都一樣那個人都很擁擠你們的SOP怎麼樣我不清楚後面疑問說我們的合約是一個小時以內要到我的天啊\n\n10\n00:03:25,009 --> 00:03:38,088\n那不長五分鐘我就說十分鐘啦我跟你講喔修電梯跟救人是完全兩件事完全不同的事情嘛所以我要拜託一下喔你們SOP齁是不是\n\n11\n00:03:39,198 --> 00:03:56,930\n你要救人一定要優先啊如果電梯要希望恢復正常如果你一個小時以內還可以接受所以那一天啊我想陳文哲副局長也在那邊就說我們有特別做了一個幾個建議啊說你們要回去研究那個總經理說一下研究結果能夠縮短到什麼時間救人救人\n\n12\n00:03:57,610 --> 00:04:18,095\n報告委員我們現在目前廠商的時間我們已經縮短到30分鐘因為也是委員當場在現場會刊給我們一個指導要求那但是第一時間我們的這個對講機會連線我們的行車室我們第一時間我們值班副站長就一定會到這個電梯去關懷被受困的旅客\n\n13\n00:04:18,655 --> 00:04:36,908\n那這個部分是回答委員剛才說這個時間的問題好第二個問題30分鐘事實上他到了那你們的合約啦我也沒辦法可是對於救人來講還是稍微長了一點所以我要拜託你第一個如果在電梯在正常的位置的時候我要拜託你們的工作人員\n\n14\n00:04:37,628 --> 00:04:56,155\n因為很多機械都會嘛也要有一些值班人員對於簡單如果電梯沒有到定位一個樓層的定位那是誰也沒辦法啦說真的如果要到定位可以對到門我們是希望第一個我們在這個台鐵台鐵的各站要有人\n\n15\n00:04:56,855 --> 00:05:13,618\n就能夠第一優先解決第二個呢消防隊到的也能夠讓他去做處理因為那天消防隊到說打電話給公司公司才說你不要碰我電梯啊這個這樣不行欸救人優先可不可以部長講一下你就救人優先吧你做個結論好不好\n\n16\n00:05:14,079 --> 00:05:35,333\n當然是要救人優先,我的想法跟您一樣,就是說我們在站裡面的戰務人員有沒有這個基礎可以去處理的這個能力,這個部分其實是可以訓練的,可以讓他們有這樣子的能力,可以快速先來解決,不然對民眾來講,我即便看到你在窗外,但我出不去我心裡面會非常害怕,所以這個部分請台鐵公司趕快來落實。\n\n17\n00:05:36,291 --> 00:05:58,613\n好的麻煩這個全國有相關情況都改善一下尤其它這個是四座電梯兩座是在外圍的行人也可以走是中壢區公所管理的內圍的是台鐵的所以這個部分麻煩你們要合作一下那接下來我們在台鐵的總體檢我們發覺已經大概兩千多天了六年半\n\n18\n00:05:59,451 --> 00:06:25,390\n六年半這從普悠瑪事件我們政府下定決心要給台鐵做一個總體檢那事實上解決了你們也解決很多一個列管那現在為什麼在安全改革總共16項但我比較care安全改革到底發生什麼問題我們看右邊因為你們總體檢要解除列管的流程第一個是台鐵先自己擬定改善計畫\n\n19\n00:06:26,511 --> 00:06:42,988\n第二個呢你們成立一個安全管理這個委員會來做這個計畫的一個審查你知道嗎過去台鐵在交通部啊還沒成立公司的時候我覺得這合理啦那現在他公司化你知道嗎第一關也是台鐵\n\n20\n00:06:44,468 --> 00:07:08,081\n然後審查台鐵報告的人雖然有外聘委員大概五到六位啦總共十幾位裡面他也是台鐵內部所以第一關台鐵提報告計畫第二關也是台鐵那整個弄好之後才有第三關解除列管部長你覺得這個程序在他們公式化之後要不要第二關給鐵道局還是誰你說一下吧\n\n21\n00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:35,000\n是報告委員過去的流程是這個樣子那現在改制公司化之後確實這個流程我們來做一下檢討有沒有可能稍微做改變或者是說合理性到底應該怎麼做會比較合理這個部分我認為是應該做檢討畢竟公司化之後跟過去的狀況是完全不一樣的現在的台鐵是公司它不像過去是公務機關它有一些公權力那目前的台鐵是公司不一定有這個公權力在這個部分我們來做檢討\n\n22\n00:07:35,814 --> 00:07:55,194\n好謝謝部長跟鐵道局你們研究一下啦因為第一個才剛寫完報告不管是機電什麼問題他寫完報告然後他又入列來審查這個我是覺得有點奇怪那我們來看看安全管委會現在是在台鐵公司裡面雖然有部分的外聘委員討論一些結果\n\n23\n00:07:56,235 --> 00:08:13,136\n當然我不知道會不會有以偏概全哇你全部都做得很好100項99項都做好被魯明哲委員挑了一項會不會有這種情況我不清楚啊不過我們來看一下這個安全委員會你們台鐵也通過囉改善報告台鐵公司寫的然後自己審查覺得OK審查事項是什麼呢\n\n24\n00:08:14,657 --> 00:08:38,982\n說希望能夠導入自動化跟智慧化系統用系統來簡化人力避免他們犯錯就是原本也沒有有一些系統希望能夠導入這個用詞很清楚然後簡化一些人力的疏失系統可以發現結果你們也通過安全管理委員會的一個審議我蠻佩服的台鐵公司提了三個方案\n\n25\n00:08:40,780 --> 00:09:03,892\n導入自動化跟智慧化是我沒看懂嗎第一強化各單位人員現場實作的訓練沒有系統嘛第二成立北中南東的員工訓練所弄四根教室出來讓人可以培訓第三對我們人員建立回訓制度\n\n26\n00:09:05,712 --> 00:09:29,193\n因為時間的關係我就覺得說沒有對到答案這是不是其他的改善事項的答案不小心放在這邊是什麼情況那這個麻煩你們回去研究一下時間的關係那我想請教一下交通部部長剛剛是第二關啦這個安全委員會他的審查最終\n\n27\n00:09:30,743 --> 00:09:39,509\n亂完之後要解除列管要送交通部要審查同意解除列管那我們又看了一個是你們已經解除列管\n\n28\n00:09:40,612 --> 00:10:01,147\n解除裂管是什麼呢平交到防護設施異常訊號處理那什麼時候解除裂管呢在圖的下方去年的5月15號解除裂管就應該沒問題了改善完畢了但是呢改善完畢不到18天新聞媒體在報這邊是好像是嘉義的新聞說半年大概四五次\n\n29\n00:10:02,788 --> 00:10:18,151\n平交到一個防護的一個相關的柵欄還是一直有問題那其實蠻危險的有問題到列車要停下來然後列車站長下來然後配合用手動再把這樣的一個\n\n30\n00:10:19,352 --> 00:10:37,992\n相關的一個設施做一個處理那我們再看右邊的圖呢就是你解列之前113年5月份解除列管往前推10個月以台鐵跟網的報告發生了7件類似的事件但你解除列管往後推10個月發生了11件\n\n31\n00:10:39,704 --> 00:10:58,452\n那我是因為我覺得民眾包括我們你們想法都一樣我們希望大家努力了半天報告也寫了我相信也想辦法去落實想辦法去改善終於解除列管了可是感覺實際效果不夠啊部長你說一下你的想法好不好\n\n32\n00:10:59,352 --> 00:11:20,218\n劣管如果要解除必然是達到我們認為他會改善的標準我們才會解除劣管所以我們當然期待說解除劣管之後要看出改善的成效那不過就委員所提出來的這個很明顯看出來很像沒有改善的成效那這個原因要不要台鐵要不要說一下我們解除了劣管但是之後卻更多\n\n33\n00:11:20,868 --> 00:11:45,369\n報告委員解除列管是因為我們自動障礙物偵測已經建完了測試驗收那為什麼在解除列管以後一段時間內還比較數量比較多是因為我們採用自動化的偵測所以有的人或是相關的物品在我們的防護區內他會告警告警我們的列車就會一度停車等這個確認沒有障礙物他才會通行\n\n34\n00:11:45,709 --> 00:12:08,167\n那現在目前整個系統的這個整個妥善率還有他的精準率都提高了所以現在這種情形其實是已經所以在晚3月你是叫我在往14年今年3月再往後看10個月沒關係我們下次來看一下我們總而言之我們希望實際解決問題不是paperwork文件最後怎麼樣去追蹤那請問一下\n\n35\n00:12:13,551 --> 00:12:30,495\n我們楊局長鐵道局因為我們有聽到有針對於這種安全的一個事項解除列管後面到底怎麼追蹤我們有看到你有專訪過你那你這邊特別寫解除列管分成三大類只要有明確執行的計畫著手執行就會從總體檢中解除列管這個沒問題\n\n36\n00:12:36,477 --> 00:12:58,076\n然後再來改由鐵道局的定期檢查機制來追蹤那我覺得這個追蹤那我剛剛講的情況你有沒有追蹤我不太清楚那可是之前王國才當部長的時候他特別說了一件事他說如果台鐵公司化之後\n\n37\n00:12:59,117 --> 00:13:20,334\n鐵道局代辦台鐵的工程他覺得不太適合來監管台鐵球員兼裁判我自己做的然後我再看看我做的好不好然後這個他是覺得有點奇怪然後他希望能夠把鐵道局的監管單位直接移到交通部這個大概目前的方向是如何你們說明一下做個結論目前有嗎有在做嗎\n\n38\n00:13:26,814 --> 00:13:55,020\n這個部分我跟委員報告一下那個鐵路法已經修過了那只要是這個台鐵營運上面的監理就是我們鐵道局那鐵道局的工程監理那基本上就在部裡面那以前是在這一個路政司那現在改組完之後是在路政道安司那有些案子也會到公共運輸監理室來那所以鐵道局本身工程的監理鐵路法已經修了現在就鐵道局就對了在部裡面\n\n39\n00:13:56,460 --> 00:14:16,751\n交通部反正鐵道局那我最後的結論是說因為票價六月底就要漲了民眾期待的不管安全品質也希望部長跟我們台鐵公司大家一定要加油讓大家看到你說你票價漲了安全沒有漲這是不行的謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4022\t29044\t好 謝謝主席有請我們交通部陳部長好 交通部陳部長鐵道局楊局長好 鐵道局楊局長台鐵公司馮總好 馮總有到嗎台鐵 台鐵吳總吳董事長吳董事長 台鐵 台鐵嗎台鐵來 吳董事長吳董事長 台鐵公司本身沒來你就代表了有有有 台鐵公司 那個總經理也在啊還有總經理也有來\n33786\t59765\t沒有啦 不見啦 喔沒有好 進來 進來總經理來委員好好首先我們討論鐵道的一個安全啦當然除了這個軌道本身 鐵路本身之外我們整個戰區的安全也是整體安全之一啦那這個部分\n60845\t63087\t好幾個問題第一個部長電梯大概你可以撐幾分鐘關在裡面耐力有沒有測試過有沒有不小心被測試過\n85189\t103547\t沒有不小心被測試過但如果超過5分鐘我大概會蠻害怕我是覺得我最多10分鐘我會受不了5分鐘我覺得還是我覺得馮總經理你會不會比較容易因為台鐵訓練的關係大概在電梯裡面可以撐多久一般大概15分鐘應該就是好那4月19號發生了這個因為\n106910\t123030\t你在中壢站全台灣吞吐量第三大站而且你又在你的管制區內的電梯其實人經常是還滿滿的所以那種壓力比我們一般一個人兩個人在電梯裡面壓力是更大\n124151\t142332\t那我們現在的問題點是發生什麼事4月19號之後他按當時有這個通知所以他這個新聞是5天之後才做的然後記者是裡面沒有幾人他在測試結果在測試的過程中他測試結果說怎麼找不到人然後按照上面的電話去打\n143953\t159515\t打個電話說在開會下午一點打電話開會然後到四點了 三個小時啊到時候人還沒來還好是實驗啊 就演習啊可是回到四月十九號真正那天電梯裡面人是很多的然後按\n160697\t174819\t緊急對講機這個我們最後了解我們台鐵公司有人接喔有人的值班好像是副站長第一時間就走到電梯旁邊就跟他們對看對看可是對看沒什麼用嘛那\n175960\t204013\t發生什麼事就要請這個修電梯的來最後40分鐘40分鐘等他40分鐘真的是也沒有辦法在場的消防隊還是消防隊把他打開的所以我要拜託你們因為各地都有這樣的一個電梯而且你們包括還沒上台的這個高鐵都一樣那個人都很擁擠你們的SOP怎麼樣我不清楚後面疑問說我們的合約是一個小時以內要到我的天啊\n205009\t218088\t那不長五分鐘我就說十分鐘啦我跟你講喔 修電梯跟救人是完全兩件事完全不同的事情嘛所以我要拜託一下喔 你們SOP齁是不是\n219198\t236930\t你要救人一定要優先啊如果電梯要希望恢復正常如果你一個小時以內還可以接受所以那一天啊我想陳文哲副局長也在那邊就說我們有特別做了一個幾個建議啊說你們要回去研究那個總經理說一下研究結果能夠縮短到什麼時間救人救人\n237610\t258095\t報告委員我們現在目前廠商的時間我們已經縮短到30分鐘因為也是委員當場在現場會刊給我們一個指導要求那但是第一時間我們的這個對講機會連線我們的行車室我們第一時間我們值班副站長就一定會到這個電梯去關懷被受困的旅客\n258655\t276908\t那這個部分是回答委員剛才說這個時間的問題好第二個問題30分鐘事實上他到了那你們的合約啦我也沒辦法可是對於救人來講還是稍微長了一點所以我要拜託你第一個如果在電梯在正常的位置的時候我要拜託你們的工作人員\n277628\t296155\t因為很多機械都會嘛也要有一些值班人員對於簡單如果電梯沒有到定位一個樓層的定位那是誰也沒辦法啦說真的如果要到定位可以對到門我們是希望第一個我們在這個台鐵台鐵的各站要有人\n296855\t313618\t就能夠第一優先解決第二個呢消防隊到的也能夠讓他去做處理因為那天消防隊到說打電話給公司公司才說你不要碰我電梯啊這個這樣不行欸救人優先可不可以部長講一下你就救人優先吧你做個結論好不好\n314079\t335333\t當然是要救人優先,我的想法跟您一樣,就是說我們在站裡面的戰務人員有沒有這個基礎可以去處理的這個能力,這個部分其實是可以訓練的,可以讓他們有這樣子的能力,可以快速先來解決,不然對民眾來講,我即便看到你在窗外,但我出不去我心裡面會非常害怕,所以這個部分請台鐵公司趕快來落實。\n336291\t358613\t好的麻煩這個全國有相關情況都改善一下尤其它這個是四座電梯兩座是在外圍的行人也可以走是中壢區公所管理的內圍的是台鐵的所以這個部分麻煩你們要合作一下那接下來我們在台鐵的總體檢我們發覺已經大概兩千多天了六年半\n359451\t385390\t六年半 這從普悠瑪事件我們政府下定決心要給台鐵做一個總體檢那事實上解決了 你們也解決很多一個列管那現在為什麼在安全改革 總共16項但我比較care 安全改革到底發生什麼問題我們看右邊 因為你們總體檢要解除列管的流程第一個是台鐵先自己擬定改善計畫\n386511\t402988\t第二個呢你們成立一個安全管理這個委員會來做這個計畫的一個審查你知道嗎過去台鐵在交通部啊還沒成立公司的時候我覺得這合理啦那現在他公司化你知道嗎第一關也是台鐵\n404468\t428081\t然後審查台鐵報告的人雖然有外聘委員大概五到六位啦總共十幾位裡面他也是台鐵內部所以第一關台鐵提報告計畫第二關也是台鐵那整個弄好之後才有第三關解除列管部長你覺得這個程序在他們公式化之後要不要第二關給鐵道局還是誰你說一下吧\n428720\t455000\t是 報告委員過去的流程是這個樣子那現在改制公司化之後確實這個流程我們來做一下檢討有沒有可能稍微做改變或者是說合理性到底應該怎麼做會比較合理這個部分我認為是應該做檢討畢竟公司化之後跟過去的狀況是完全不一樣的現在的台鐵是公司它不像過去是公務機關它有一些公權力那目前的台鐵是公司不一定有這個公權力在這個部分我們來做檢討\n455814\t475194\t好 謝謝部長跟鐵道局你們研究一下啦因為第一個才剛寫完報告不管是機電什麼問題他寫完報告然後他又入列來審查這個 我是覺得有點奇怪那我們來看看安全管委會現在是在台鐵公司裡面雖然有部分的外聘委員討論一些結果\n476235\t493136\t當然我不知道會不會有以偏概全哇 你全部都做得很好100項99項都做好被魯明哲委員挑了一項會不會有這種情況我不清楚啊不過我們來看一下這個安全委員會你們台鐵也通過囉改善報告台鐵公司寫的然後自己審查覺得OK審查事項是什麼呢\n494657\t518982\t說希望能夠導入自動化跟智慧化系統用系統來簡化人力避免他們犯錯就是原本也沒有有一些系統希望能夠導入這個用詞很清楚然後簡化一些人力的疏失系統可以發現結果你們也通過安全管理委員會的一個審議我蠻佩服的台鐵公司提了三個方案\n520780\t543892\t導入自動化跟智慧化 是我沒看懂嗎第一 強化各單位人員現場實作的訓練沒有系統嘛第二 成立北中南東的員工訓練所弄四根教室出來 讓人可以培訓第三 對我們人員建立回訓制度\n545712\t569193\t因為時間的關係我就覺得說沒有對到答案這是不是其他的改善事項的答案不小心放在這邊是什麼情況那這個麻煩你們回去研究一下時間的關係那我想請教一下交通部部長剛剛是第二關啦這個安全委員會他的審查最終\n570743\t579509\t亂完之後要解除列管要送交通部要審查同意解除列管那我們又看了一個是你們已經解除列管\n580612\t601147\t解除裂管是什麼呢 平交到防護設施異常訊號處理那什麼時候解除裂管呢 在圖的下方去年的5月15號解除裂管就應該沒問題了 改善完畢了但是呢 改善完畢不到18天 新聞媒體在報這邊是好像是嘉義的新聞 說半年大概四五次\n602788\t618151\t平交到一個防護的一個相關的柵欄還是一直有問題那其實蠻危險的有問題到列車要停下來然後列車站長下來然後配合用手動再把這樣的一個\n619352\t637992\t相關的一個設施做一個處理那我們再看右邊的圖呢就是你解列之前113年5月份解除列管往前推10個月以台鐵跟網的報告發生了7件類似的事件但你解除列管往後推10個月發生了11件\n639704\t658452\t那我是因為我覺得民眾包括我們你們想法都一樣我們希望大家努力了半天報告也寫了我相信也想辦法去落實想辦法去改善終於解除列管了可是感覺實際效果不夠啊部長你說一下你的想法好不好\n659352\t680218\t劣管如果要解除必然是達到我們認為他會改善的標準我們才會解除劣管所以我們當然期待說解除劣管之後要看出改善的成效那不過就委員所提出來的這個很明顯看出來很像沒有改善的成效那這個原因要不要台鐵要不要說一下我們解除了劣管但是之後卻更多\n680868\t705369\t報告委員解除列管是因為我們自動障礙物偵測已經建完了測試驗收那為什麼在解除列管以後一段時間內還比較數量比較多是因為我們採用自動化的偵測所以有的人或是相關的物品在我們的防護區內他會告警告警我們的列車就會一度停車等這個確認沒有障礙物他才會通行\n705709\t728167\t那現在目前整個系統的這個整個妥善率還有他的精準率都提高了所以現在這種情形其實是已經所以在晚3月你是叫我在往14年今年3月再往後看10個月沒關係我們下次來看一下我們總而言之我們希望實際解決問題不是paperwork文件最後怎麼樣去追蹤那請問一下\n733551\t750495\t我們楊局長鐵道局因為我們有聽到有針對於這種安全的一個事項解除列管後面到底怎麼追蹤我們有看到你有專訪過你那你這邊特別寫解除列管分成三大類只要有明確執行的計畫著手執行就會從總體檢中解除列管這個沒問題\n756477\t778076\t然後再來改由鐵道局的定期檢查機制來追蹤那我覺得這個追蹤那我剛剛講的情況你有沒有追蹤我不太清楚那可是之前王國才當部長的時候他特別說了一件事他說如果台鐵公司化之後\n779117\t800334\t鐵道局代辦台鐵的工程他覺得不太適合來監管台鐵球員兼裁判我自己做的然後我再看看我做的好不好然後這個他是覺得有點奇怪然後他希望能夠把鐵道局的監管單位直接移到交通部這個大概目前的方向是如何你們說明一下做個結論目前有嗎 有在做嗎\n806814\t835020\t這個部分我跟委員報告一下那個鐵路法已經修過了那只要是這個台鐵營運上面的監理就是我們鐵道局那鐵道局的工程監理那基本上就在部裡面那以前是在這一個路政司那現在改組完之後是在路政道安司那有些案子也會到公共運輸監理室來那所以鐵道局本身工程的監理鐵路法已經修了現在就鐵道局就對了在部裡面\n836460\t856751\t交通部 反正鐵道局那我最後的結論是說因為票價六月底就要漲了民眾期待的不管安全品質也希望部長跟我們台鐵公司大家一定要加油讓大家看到你說你票價漲了 安全沒有漲這是不行的 謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席有請我們交通部陳部長好 交通部陳部長鐵道局楊局長好 鐵道局楊局長台鐵公司馮總好 馮總有到嗎台鐵 台鐵吳總吳董事長吳董事長 台鐵 台鐵嗎台鐵來 吳董事長吳董事長 台鐵公司本身沒來你就代表了有有有 台鐵公司 那個總經理也在啊還有總經理也有來\n沒有啦 不見啦 喔沒有好 進來 進來總經理來委員好好首先我們討論鐵道的一個安全啦當然除了這個軌道本身 鐵路本身之外我們整個戰區的安全也是整體安全之一啦那這個部分\n好幾個問題第一個部長電梯大概你可以撐幾分鐘關在裡面耐力有沒有測試過有沒有不小心被測試過\n沒有不小心被測試過但如果超過5分鐘我大概會蠻害怕我是覺得我最多10分鐘我會受不了5分鐘我覺得還是我覺得馮總經理你會不會比較容易因為台鐵訓練的關係大概在電梯裡面可以撐多久一般大概15分鐘應該就是好那4月19號發生了這個因為\n你在中壢站全台灣吞吐量第三大站而且你又在你的管制區內的電梯其實人經常是還滿滿的所以那種壓力比我們一般一個人兩個人在電梯裡面壓力是更大\n那我們現在的問題點是發生什麼事4月19號之後他按當時有這個通知所以他這個新聞是5天之後才做的然後記者是裡面沒有幾人他在測試結果在測試的過程中他測試結果說怎麼找不到人然後按照上面的電話去打\n打個電話說在開會下午一點打電話開會然後到四點了 三個小時啊到時候人還沒來還好是實驗啊 就演習啊可是回到四月十九號真正那天電梯裡面人是很多的然後按\n緊急對講機這個我們最後了解我們台鐵公司有人接喔有人的值班好像是副站長第一時間就走到電梯旁邊就跟他們對看對看可是對看沒什麼用嘛那\n發生什麼事就要請這個修電梯的來最後40分鐘40分鐘等他40分鐘真的是也沒有辦法在場的消防隊還是消防隊把他打開的所以我要拜託你們因為各地都有這樣的一個電梯而且你們包括還沒上台的這個高鐵都一樣那個人都很擁擠你們的SOP怎麼樣我不清楚後面疑問說我們的合約是一個小時以內要到我的天啊\n那不長五分鐘我就說十分鐘啦我跟你講喔 修電梯跟救人是完全兩件事完全不同的事情嘛所以我要拜託一下喔 你們SOP齁是不是\n你要救人一定要優先啊如果電梯要希望恢復正常如果你一個小時以內還可以接受所以那一天啊我想陳文哲副局長也在那邊就說我們有特別做了一個幾個建議啊說你們要回去研究那個總經理說一下研究結果能夠縮短到什麼時間救人救人\n報告委員我們現在目前廠商的時間我們已經縮短到30分鐘因為也是委員當場在現場會刊給我們一個指導要求那但是第一時間我們的這個對講機會連線我們的行車室我們第一時間我們值班副站長就一定會到這個電梯去關懷被受困的旅客\n那這個部分是回答委員剛才說這個時間的問題好第二個問題30分鐘事實上他到了那你們的合約啦我也沒辦法可是對於救人來講還是稍微長了一點所以我要拜託你第一個如果在電梯在正常的位置的時候我要拜託你們的工作人員\n因為很多機械都會嘛也要有一些值班人員對於簡單如果電梯沒有到定位一個樓層的定位那是誰也沒辦法啦說真的如果要到定位可以對到門我們是希望第一個我們在這個台鐵台鐵的各站要有人\n就能夠第一優先解決第二個呢消防隊到的也能夠讓他去做處理因為那天消防隊到說打電話給公司公司才說你不要碰我電梯啊這個這樣不行欸救人優先可不可以部長講一下你就救人優先吧你做個結論好不好\n當然是要救人優先,我的想法跟您一樣,就是說我們在站裡面的戰務人員有沒有這個基礎可以去處理的這個能力,這個部分其實是可以訓練的,可以讓他們有這樣子的能力,可以快速先來解決,不然對民眾來講,我即便看到你在窗外,但我出不去我心裡面會非常害怕,所以這個部分請台鐵公司趕快來落實。\n好的麻煩這個全國有相關情況都改善一下尤其它這個是四座電梯兩座是在外圍的行人也可以走是中壢區公所管理的內圍的是台鐵的所以這個部分麻煩你們要合作一下那接下來我們在台鐵的總體檢我們發覺已經大概兩千多天了六年半\n六年半 這從普悠瑪事件我們政府下定決心要給台鐵做一個總體檢那事實上解決了 你們也解決很多一個列管那現在為什麼在安全改革 總共16項但我比較care 安全改革到底發生什麼問題我們看右邊 因為你們總體檢要解除列管的流程第一個是台鐵先自己擬定改善計畫\n第二個呢你們成立一個安全管理這個委員會來做這個計畫的一個審查你知道嗎過去台鐵在交通部啊還沒成立公司的時候我覺得這合理啦那現在他公司化你知道嗎第一關也是台鐵\n然後審查台鐵報告的人雖然有外聘委員大概五到六位啦總共十幾位裡面他也是台鐵內部所以第一關台鐵提報告計畫第二關也是台鐵那整個弄好之後才有第三關解除列管部長你覺得這個程序在他們公式化之後要不要第二關給鐵道局還是誰你說一下吧\n是 報告委員過去的流程是這個樣子那現在改制公司化之後確實這個流程我們來做一下檢討有沒有可能稍微做改變或者是說合理性到底應該怎麼做會比較合理這個部分我認為是應該做檢討畢竟公司化之後跟過去的狀況是完全不一樣的現在的台鐵是公司它不像過去是公務機關它有一些公權力那目前的台鐵是公司不一定有這個公權力在這個部分我們來做檢討\n好 謝謝部長跟鐵道局你們研究一下啦因為第一個才剛寫完報告不管是機電什麼問題他寫完報告然後他又入列來審查這個 我是覺得有點奇怪那我們來看看安全管委會現在是在台鐵公司裡面雖然有部分的外聘委員討論一些結果\n當然我不知道會不會有以偏概全哇 你全部都做得很好100項99項都做好被魯明哲委員挑了一項會不會有這種情況我不清楚啊不過我們來看一下這個安全委員會你們台鐵也通過囉改善報告台鐵公司寫的然後自己審查覺得OK審查事項是什麼呢\n說希望能夠導入自動化跟智慧化系統用系統來簡化人力避免他們犯錯就是原本也沒有有一些系統希望能夠導入這個用詞很清楚然後簡化一些人力的疏失系統可以發現結果你們也通過安全管理委員會的一個審議我蠻佩服的台鐵公司提了三個方案\n導入自動化跟智慧化 是我沒看懂嗎第一 強化各單位人員現場實作的訓練沒有系統嘛第二 成立北中南東的員工訓練所弄四根教室出來 讓人可以培訓第三 對我們人員建立回訓制度\n因為時間的關係我就覺得說沒有對到答案這是不是其他的改善事項的答案不小心放在這邊是什麼情況那這個麻煩你們回去研究一下時間的關係那我想請教一下交通部部長剛剛是第二關啦這個安全委員會他的審查最終\n亂完之後要解除列管要送交通部要審查同意解除列管那我們又看了一個是你們已經解除列管\n解除裂管是什麼呢 平交到防護設施異常訊號處理那什麼時候解除裂管呢 在圖的下方去年的5月15號解除裂管就應該沒問題了 改善完畢了但是呢 改善完畢不到18天 新聞媒體在報這邊是好像是嘉義的新聞 說半年大概四五次\n平交到一個防護的一個相關的柵欄還是一直有問題那其實蠻危險的有問題到列車要停下來然後列車站長下來然後配合用手動再把這樣的一個\n相關的一個設施做一個處理那我們再看右邊的圖呢就是你解列之前113年5月份解除列管往前推10個月以台鐵跟網的報告發生了7件類似的事件但你解除列管往後推10個月發生了11件\n那我是因為我覺得民眾包括我們你們想法都一樣我們希望大家努力了半天報告也寫了我相信也想辦法去落實想辦法去改善終於解除列管了可是感覺實際效果不夠啊部長你說一下你的想法好不好\n劣管如果要解除必然是達到我們認為他會改善的標準我們才會解除劣管所以我們當然期待說解除劣管之後要看出改善的成效那不過就委員所提出來的這個很明顯看出來很像沒有改善的成效那這個原因要不要台鐵要不要說一下我們解除了劣管但是之後卻更多\n報告委員解除列管是因為我們自動障礙物偵測已經建完了測試驗收那為什麼在解除列管以後一段時間內還比較數量比較多是因為我們採用自動化的偵測所以有的人或是相關的物品在我們的防護區內他會告警告警我們的列車就會一度停車等這個確認沒有障礙物他才會通行\n那現在目前整個系統的這個整個妥善率還有他的精準率都提高了所以現在這種情形其實是已經所以在晚3月你是叫我在往14年今年3月再往後看10個月沒關係我們下次來看一下我們總而言之我們希望實際解決問題不是paperwork文件最後怎麼樣去追蹤那請問一下\n我們楊局長鐵道局因為我們有聽到有針對於這種安全的一個事項解除列管後面到底怎麼追蹤我們有看到你有專訪過你那你這邊特別寫解除列管分成三大類只要有明確執行的計畫著手執行就會從總體檢中解除列管這個沒問題\n然後再來改由鐵道局的定期檢查機制來追蹤那我覺得這個追蹤那我剛剛講的情況你有沒有追蹤我不太清楚那可是之前王國才當部長的時候他特別說了一件事他說如果台鐵公司化之後\n鐵道局代辦台鐵的工程他覺得不太適合來監管台鐵球員兼裁判我自己做的然後我再看看我做的好不好然後這個他是覺得有點奇怪然後他希望能夠把鐵道局的監管單位直接移到交通部這個大概目前的方向是如何你們說明一下做個結論目前有嗎 有在做嗎\n這個部分我跟委員報告一下那個鐵路法已經修過了那只要是這個台鐵營運上面的監理就是我們鐵道局那鐵道局的工程監理那基本上就在部裡面那以前是在這一個路政司那現在改組完之後是在路政道安司那有些案子也會到公共運輸監理室來那所以鐵道局本身工程的監理鐵路法已經修了現在就鐵道局就對了在部裡面\n交通部 反正鐵道局那我最後的結論是說因為票價六月底就要漲了民眾期待的不管安全品質也希望部長跟我們台鐵公司大家一定要加油讓大家看到你說你票價漲了 安全沒有漲這是不行的 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.022 --> 00:29.044\n好謝謝主席有請我們交通部陳部長好交通部陳部長鐵道局楊局長好鐵道局楊局長台鐵公司馮總好馮總有到嗎台鐵台鐵吳總吳董事長吳董事長台鐵台鐵嗎台鐵來吳董事長吳董事長台鐵公司本身沒來你就代表了有有有台鐵公司那個總經理也在啊還有總經理也有來\n\n00:33.786 --> 00:59.765\n沒有啦不見啦喔沒有好進來進來總經理來委員好好首先我們討論鐵道的一個安全啦當然除了這個軌道本身鐵路本身之外我們整個戰區的安全也是整體安全之一啦那這個部分\n\n01:00.845 --> 01:03.087\n好幾個問題第一個部長電梯大概你可以撐幾分鐘關在裡面耐力有沒有測試過有沒有不小心被測試過\n\n01:25.189 --> 01:43.547\n沒有不小心被測試過但如果超過5分鐘我大概會蠻害怕我是覺得我最多10分鐘我會受不了5分鐘我覺得還是我覺得馮總經理你會不會比較容易因為台鐵訓練的關係大概在電梯裡面可以撐多久一般大概15分鐘應該就是好那4月19號發生了這個因為\n\n01:46.910 --> 02:03.030\n你在中壢站全台灣吞吐量第三大站而且你又在你的管制區內的電梯其實人經常是還滿滿的所以那種壓力比我們一般一個人兩個人在電梯裡面壓力是更大\n\n02:04.151 --> 02:22.332\n那我們現在的問題點是發生什麼事4月19號之後他按當時有這個通知所以他這個新聞是5天之後才做的然後記者是裡面沒有幾人他在測試結果在測試的過程中他測試結果說怎麼找不到人然後按照上面的電話去打\n\n02:23.953 --> 02:39.515\n打個電話說在開會下午一點打電話開會然後到四點了三個小時啊到時候人還沒來還好是實驗啊就演習啊可是回到四月十九號真正那天電梯裡面人是很多的然後按\n\n02:40.697 --> 02:54.819\n緊急對講機這個我們最後了解我們台鐵公司有人接喔有人的值班好像是副站長第一時間就走到電梯旁邊就跟他們對看對看可是對看沒什麼用嘛那\n\n02:55.960 --> 03:24.013\n發生什麼事就要請這個修電梯的來最後40分鐘40分鐘等他40分鐘真的是也沒有辦法在場的消防隊還是消防隊把他打開的所以我要拜託你們因為各地都有這樣的一個電梯而且你們包括還沒上台的這個高鐵都一樣那個人都很擁擠你們的SOP怎麼樣我不清楚後面疑問說我們的合約是一個小時以內要到我的天啊\n\n03:25.009 --> 03:38.088\n那不長五分鐘我就說十分鐘啦我跟你講喔修電梯跟救人是完全兩件事完全不同的事情嘛所以我要拜託一下喔你們SOP齁是不是\n\n03:39.198 --> 03:56.930\n你要救人一定要優先啊如果電梯要希望恢復正常如果你一個小時以內還可以接受所以那一天啊我想陳文哲副局長也在那邊就說我們有特別做了一個幾個建議啊說你們要回去研究那個總經理說一下研究結果能夠縮短到什麼時間救人救人\n\n03:57.610 --> 04:18.095\n報告委員我們現在目前廠商的時間我們已經縮短到30分鐘因為也是委員當場在現場會刊給我們一個指導要求那但是第一時間我們的這個對講機會連線我們的行車室我們第一時間我們值班副站長就一定會到這個電梯去關懷被受困的旅客\n\n04:18.655 --> 04:36.908\n那這個部分是回答委員剛才說這個時間的問題好第二個問題30分鐘事實上他到了那你們的合約啦我也沒辦法可是對於救人來講還是稍微長了一點所以我要拜託你第一個如果在電梯在正常的位置的時候我要拜託你們的工作人員\n\n04:37.628 --> 04:56.155\n因為很多機械都會嘛也要有一些值班人員對於簡單如果電梯沒有到定位一個樓層的定位那是誰也沒辦法啦說真的如果要到定位可以對到門我們是希望第一個我們在這個台鐵台鐵的各站要有人\n\n04:56.855 --> 05:13.618\n就能夠第一優先解決第二個呢消防隊到的也能夠讓他去做處理因為那天消防隊到說打電話給公司公司才說你不要碰我電梯啊這個這樣不行欸救人優先可不可以部長講一下你就救人優先吧你做個結論好不好\n\n05:14.079 --> 05:35.333\n當然是要救人優先,我的想法跟您一樣,就是說我們在站裡面的戰務人員有沒有這個基礎可以去處理的這個能力,這個部分其實是可以訓練的,可以讓他們有這樣子的能力,可以快速先來解決,不然對民眾來講,我即便看到你在窗外,但我出不去我心裡面會非常害怕,所以這個部分請台鐵公司趕快來落實。\n\n05:36.291 --> 05:58.613\n好的麻煩這個全國有相關情況都改善一下尤其它這個是四座電梯兩座是在外圍的行人也可以走是中壢區公所管理的內圍的是台鐵的所以這個部分麻煩你們要合作一下那接下來我們在台鐵的總體檢我們發覺已經大概兩千多天了六年半\n\n05:59.451 --> 06:25.390\n六年半這從普悠瑪事件我們政府下定決心要給台鐵做一個總體檢那事實上解決了你們也解決很多一個列管那現在為什麼在安全改革總共16項但我比較care安全改革到底發生什麼問題我們看右邊因為你們總體檢要解除列管的流程第一個是台鐵先自己擬定改善計畫\n\n06:26.511 --> 06:42.988\n第二個呢你們成立一個安全管理這個委員會來做這個計畫的一個審查你知道嗎過去台鐵在交通部啊還沒成立公司的時候我覺得這合理啦那現在他公司化你知道嗎第一關也是台鐵\n\n06:44.468 --> 07:08.081\n然後審查台鐵報告的人雖然有外聘委員大概五到六位啦總共十幾位裡面他也是台鐵內部所以第一關台鐵提報告計畫第二關也是台鐵那整個弄好之後才有第三關解除列管部長你覺得這個程序在他們公式化之後要不要第二關給鐵道局還是誰你說一下吧\n\n07:08.720 --> 07:35.000\n是報告委員過去的流程是這個樣子那現在改制公司化之後確實這個流程我們來做一下檢討有沒有可能稍微做改變或者是說合理性到底應該怎麼做會比較合理這個部分我認為是應該做檢討畢竟公司化之後跟過去的狀況是完全不一樣的現在的台鐵是公司它不像過去是公務機關它有一些公權力那目前的台鐵是公司不一定有這個公權力在這個部分我們來做檢討\n\n07:35.814 --> 07:55.194\n好謝謝部長跟鐵道局你們研究一下啦因為第一個才剛寫完報告不管是機電什麼問題他寫完報告然後他又入列來審查這個我是覺得有點奇怪那我們來看看安全管委會現在是在台鐵公司裡面雖然有部分的外聘委員討論一些結果\n\n07:56.235 --> 08:13.136\n當然我不知道會不會有以偏概全哇你全部都做得很好100項99項都做好被魯明哲委員挑了一項會不會有這種情況我不清楚啊不過我們來看一下這個安全委員會你們台鐵也通過囉改善報告台鐵公司寫的然後自己審查覺得OK審查事項是什麼呢\n\n08:14.657 --> 08:38.982\n說希望能夠導入自動化跟智慧化系統用系統來簡化人力避免他們犯錯就是原本也沒有有一些系統希望能夠導入這個用詞很清楚然後簡化一些人力的疏失系統可以發現結果你們也通過安全管理委員會的一個審議我蠻佩服的台鐵公司提了三個方案\n\n08:40.780 --> 09:03.892\n導入自動化跟智慧化是我沒看懂嗎第一強化各單位人員現場實作的訓練沒有系統嘛第二成立北中南東的員工訓練所弄四根教室出來讓人可以培訓第三對我們人員建立回訓制度\n\n09:05.712 --> 09:29.193\n因為時間的關係我就覺得說沒有對到答案這是不是其他的改善事項的答案不小心放在這邊是什麼情況那這個麻煩你們回去研究一下時間的關係那我想請教一下交通部部長剛剛是第二關啦這個安全委員會他的審查最終\n\n09:30.743 --> 09:39.509\n亂完之後要解除列管要送交通部要審查同意解除列管那我們又看了一個是你們已經解除列管\n\n09:40.612 --> 10:01.147\n解除裂管是什麼呢平交到防護設施異常訊號處理那什麼時候解除裂管呢在圖的下方去年的5月15號解除裂管就應該沒問題了改善完畢了但是呢改善完畢不到18天新聞媒體在報這邊是好像是嘉義的新聞說半年大概四五次\n\n10:02.788 --> 10:18.151\n平交到一個防護的一個相關的柵欄還是一直有問題那其實蠻危險的有問題到列車要停下來然後列車站長下來然後配合用手動再把這樣的一個\n\n10:19.352 --> 10:37.992\n相關的一個設施做一個處理那我們再看右邊的圖呢就是你解列之前113年5月份解除列管往前推10個月以台鐵跟網的報告發生了7件類似的事件但你解除列管往後推10個月發生了11件\n\n10:39.704 --> 10:58.452\n那我是因為我覺得民眾包括我們你們想法都一樣我們希望大家努力了半天報告也寫了我相信也想辦法去落實想辦法去改善終於解除列管了可是感覺實際效果不夠啊部長你說一下你的想法好不好\n\n10:59.352 --> 11:20.218\n劣管如果要解除必然是達到我們認為他會改善的標準我們才會解除劣管所以我們當然期待說解除劣管之後要看出改善的成效那不過就委員所提出來的這個很明顯看出來很像沒有改善的成效那這個原因要不要台鐵要不要說一下我們解除了劣管但是之後卻更多\n\n11:20.868 --> 11:45.369\n報告委員解除列管是因為我們自動障礙物偵測已經建完了測試驗收那為什麼在解除列管以後一段時間內還比較數量比較多是因為我們採用自動化的偵測所以有的人或是相關的物品在我們的防護區內他會告警告警我們的列車就會一度停車等這個確認沒有障礙物他才會通行\n\n11:45.709 --> 12:08.167\n那現在目前整個系統的這個整個妥善率還有他的精準率都提高了所以現在這種情形其實是已經所以在晚3月你是叫我在往14年今年3月再往後看10個月沒關係我們下次來看一下我們總而言之我們希望實際解決問題不是paperwork文件最後怎麼樣去追蹤那請問一下\n\n12:13.551 --> 12:30.495\n我們楊局長鐵道局因為我們有聽到有針對於這種安全的一個事項解除列管後面到底怎麼追蹤我們有看到你有專訪過你那你這邊特別寫解除列管分成三大類只要有明確執行的計畫著手執行就會從總體檢中解除列管這個沒問題\n\n12:36.477 --> 12:58.076\n然後再來改由鐵道局的定期檢查機制來追蹤那我覺得這個追蹤那我剛剛講的情況你有沒有追蹤我不太清楚那可是之前王國才當部長的時候他特別說了一件事他說如果台鐵公司化之後\n\n12:59.117 --> 13:20.334\n鐵道局代辦台鐵的工程他覺得不太適合來監管台鐵球員兼裁判我自己做的然後我再看看我做的好不好然後這個他是覺得有點奇怪然後他希望能夠把鐵道局的監管單位直接移到交通部這個大概目前的方向是如何你們說明一下做個結論目前有嗎有在做嗎\n\n13:26.814 --> 13:55.020\n這個部分我跟委員報告一下那個鐵路法已經修過了那只要是這個台鐵營運上面的監理就是我們鐵道局那鐵道局的工程監理那基本上就在部裡面那以前是在這一個路政司那現在改組完之後是在路政道安司那有些案子也會到公共運輸監理室來那所以鐵道局本身工程的監理鐵路法已經修了現在就鐵道局就對了在部裡面\n\n13:56.460 --> 14:16.751\n交通部反正鐵道局那我最後的結論是說因為票價六月底就要漲了民眾期待的不管安全品質也希望部長跟我們台鐵公司大家一定要加油讓大家看到你說你票價漲了安全沒有漲這是不行的謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.022,"end":29.044,"text":"好 謝謝主席有請我們交通部陳部長好 交通部陳部長鐵道局楊局長好 鐵道局楊局長台鐵公司馮總好 馮總有到嗎台鐵 台鐵吳總吳董事長吳董事長 台鐵 台鐵嗎台鐵來 吳董事長吳董事長 台鐵公司本身沒來你就代表了有有有 台鐵公司 那個總經理也在啊還有總經理也有來"},{"start":33.786,"end":59.765,"text":"沒有啦 不見啦 喔沒有好 進來 進來總經理來委員好好首先我們討論鐵道的一個安全啦當然除了這個軌道本身 鐵路本身之外我們整個戰區的安全也是整體安全之一啦那這個部分"},{"start":60.845,"end":63.087,"text":"好幾個問題第一個部長電梯大概你可以撐幾分鐘關在裡面耐力有沒有測試過有沒有不小心被測試過"},{"start":85.189,"end":103.547,"text":"沒有不小心被測試過但如果超過5分鐘我大概會蠻害怕我是覺得我最多10分鐘我會受不了5分鐘我覺得還是我覺得馮總經理你會不會比較容易因為台鐵訓練的關係大概在電梯裡面可以撐多久一般大概15分鐘應該就是好那4月19號發生了這個因為"},{"start":106.91,"end":123.03,"text":"你在中壢站全台灣吞吐量第三大站而且你又在你的管制區內的電梯其實人經常是還滿滿的所以那種壓力比我們一般一個人兩個人在電梯裡面壓力是更大"},{"start":124.151,"end":142.332,"text":"那我們現在的問題點是發生什麼事4月19號之後他按當時有這個通知所以他這個新聞是5天之後才做的然後記者是裡面沒有幾人他在測試結果在測試的過程中他測試結果說怎麼找不到人然後按照上面的電話去打"},{"start":143.953,"end":159.515,"text":"打個電話說在開會下午一點打電話開會然後到四點了 三個小時啊到時候人還沒來還好是實驗啊 就演習啊可是回到四月十九號真正那天電梯裡面人是很多的然後按"},{"start":160.697,"end":174.819,"text":"緊急對講機這個我們最後了解我們台鐵公司有人接喔有人的值班好像是副站長第一時間就走到電梯旁邊就跟他們對看對看可是對看沒什麼用嘛那"},{"start":175.96,"end":204.013,"text":"發生什麼事就要請這個修電梯的來最後40分鐘40分鐘等他40分鐘真的是也沒有辦法在場的消防隊還是消防隊把他打開的所以我要拜託你們因為各地都有這樣的一個電梯而且你們包括還沒上台的這個高鐵都一樣那個人都很擁擠你們的SOP怎麼樣我不清楚後面疑問說我們的合約是一個小時以內要到我的天啊"},{"start":205.009,"end":218.088,"text":"那不長五分鐘我就說十分鐘啦我跟你講喔 修電梯跟救人是完全兩件事完全不同的事情嘛所以我要拜託一下喔 你們SOP齁是不是"},{"start":219.198,"end":236.93,"text":"你要救人一定要優先啊如果電梯要希望恢復正常如果你一個小時以內還可以接受所以那一天啊我想陳文哲副局長也在那邊就說我們有特別做了一個幾個建議啊說你們要回去研究那個總經理說一下研究結果能夠縮短到什麼時間救人救人"},{"start":237.61,"end":258.095,"text":"報告委員我們現在目前廠商的時間我們已經縮短到30分鐘因為也是委員當場在現場會刊給我們一個指導要求那但是第一時間我們的這個對講機會連線我們的行車室我們第一時間我們值班副站長就一定會到這個電梯去關懷被受困的旅客"},{"start":258.655,"end":276.908,"text":"那這個部分是回答委員剛才說這個時間的問題好第二個問題30分鐘事實上他到了那你們的合約啦我也沒辦法可是對於救人來講還是稍微長了一點所以我要拜託你第一個如果在電梯在正常的位置的時候我要拜託你們的工作人員"},{"start":277.628,"end":296.155,"text":"因為很多機械都會嘛也要有一些值班人員對於簡單如果電梯沒有到定位一個樓層的定位那是誰也沒辦法啦說真的如果要到定位可以對到門我們是希望第一個我們在這個台鐵台鐵的各站要有人"},{"start":296.855,"end":313.618,"text":"就能夠第一優先解決第二個呢消防隊到的也能夠讓他去做處理因為那天消防隊到說打電話給公司公司才說你不要碰我電梯啊這個這樣不行欸救人優先可不可以部長講一下你就救人優先吧你做個結論好不好"},{"start":314.079,"end":335.333,"text":"當然是要救人優先,我的想法跟您一樣,就是說我們在站裡面的戰務人員有沒有這個基礎可以去處理的這個能力,這個部分其實是可以訓練的,可以讓他們有這樣子的能力,可以快速先來解決,不然對民眾來講,我即便看到你在窗外,但我出不去我心裡面會非常害怕,所以這個部分請台鐵公司趕快來落實。"},{"start":336.291,"end":358.613,"text":"好的麻煩這個全國有相關情況都改善一下尤其它這個是四座電梯兩座是在外圍的行人也可以走是中壢區公所管理的內圍的是台鐵的所以這個部分麻煩你們要合作一下那接下來我們在台鐵的總體檢我們發覺已經大概兩千多天了六年半"},{"start":359.451,"end":385.39,"text":"六年半 這從普悠瑪事件我們政府下定決心要給台鐵做一個總體檢那事實上解決了 你們也解決很多一個列管那現在為什麼在安全改革 總共16項但我比較care 安全改革到底發生什麼問題我們看右邊 因為你們總體檢要解除列管的流程第一個是台鐵先自己擬定改善計畫"},{"start":386.511,"end":402.988,"text":"第二個呢你們成立一個安全管理這個委員會來做這個計畫的一個審查你知道嗎過去台鐵在交通部啊還沒成立公司的時候我覺得這合理啦那現在他公司化你知道嗎第一關也是台鐵"},{"start":404.468,"end":428.081,"text":"然後審查台鐵報告的人雖然有外聘委員大概五到六位啦總共十幾位裡面他也是台鐵內部所以第一關台鐵提報告計畫第二關也是台鐵那整個弄好之後才有第三關解除列管部長你覺得這個程序在他們公式化之後要不要第二關給鐵道局還是誰你說一下吧"},{"start":428.72,"end":455,"text":"是 報告委員過去的流程是這個樣子那現在改制公司化之後確實這個流程我們來做一下檢討有沒有可能稍微做改變或者是說合理性到底應該怎麼做會比較合理這個部分我認為是應該做檢討畢竟公司化之後跟過去的狀況是完全不一樣的現在的台鐵是公司它不像過去是公務機關它有一些公權力那目前的台鐵是公司不一定有這個公權力在這個部分我們來做檢討"},{"start":455.814,"end":475.194,"text":"好 謝謝部長跟鐵道局你們研究一下啦因為第一個才剛寫完報告不管是機電什麼問題他寫完報告然後他又入列來審查這個 我是覺得有點奇怪那我們來看看安全管委會現在是在台鐵公司裡面雖然有部分的外聘委員討論一些結果"},{"start":476.235,"end":493.136,"text":"當然我不知道會不會有以偏概全哇 你全部都做得很好100項99項都做好被魯明哲委員挑了一項會不會有這種情況我不清楚啊不過我們來看一下這個安全委員會你們台鐵也通過囉改善報告台鐵公司寫的然後自己審查覺得OK審查事項是什麼呢"},{"start":494.657,"end":518.982,"text":"說希望能夠導入自動化跟智慧化系統用系統來簡化人力避免他們犯錯就是原本也沒有有一些系統希望能夠導入這個用詞很清楚然後簡化一些人力的疏失系統可以發現結果你們也通過安全管理委員會的一個審議我蠻佩服的台鐵公司提了三個方案"},{"start":520.78,"end":543.892,"text":"導入自動化跟智慧化 是我沒看懂嗎第一 強化各單位人員現場實作的訓練沒有系統嘛第二 成立北中南東的員工訓練所弄四根教室出來 讓人可以培訓第三 對我們人員建立回訓制度"},{"start":545.712,"end":569.193,"text":"因為時間的關係我就覺得說沒有對到答案這是不是其他的改善事項的答案不小心放在這邊是什麼情況那這個麻煩你們回去研究一下時間的關係那我想請教一下交通部部長剛剛是第二關啦這個安全委員會他的審查最終"},{"start":570.743,"end":579.509,"text":"亂完之後要解除列管要送交通部要審查同意解除列管那我們又看了一個是你們已經解除列管"},{"start":580.612,"end":601.147,"text":"解除裂管是什麼呢 平交到防護設施異常訊號處理那什麼時候解除裂管呢 在圖的下方去年的5月15號解除裂管就應該沒問題了 改善完畢了但是呢 改善完畢不到18天 新聞媒體在報這邊是好像是嘉義的新聞 說半年大概四五次"},{"start":602.788,"end":618.151,"text":"平交到一個防護的一個相關的柵欄還是一直有問題那其實蠻危險的有問題到列車要停下來然後列車站長下來然後配合用手動再把這樣的一個"},{"start":619.352,"end":637.992,"text":"相關的一個設施做一個處理那我們再看右邊的圖呢就是你解列之前113年5月份解除列管往前推10個月以台鐵跟網的報告發生了7件類似的事件但你解除列管往後推10個月發生了11件"},{"start":639.704,"end":658.452,"text":"那我是因為我覺得民眾包括我們你們想法都一樣我們希望大家努力了半天報告也寫了我相信也想辦法去落實想辦法去改善終於解除列管了可是感覺實際效果不夠啊部長你說一下你的想法好不好"},{"start":659.352,"end":680.218,"text":"劣管如果要解除必然是達到我們認為他會改善的標準我們才會解除劣管所以我們當然期待說解除劣管之後要看出改善的成效那不過就委員所提出來的這個很明顯看出來很像沒有改善的成效那這個原因要不要台鐵要不要說一下我們解除了劣管但是之後卻更多"},{"start":680.868,"end":705.369,"text":"報告委員解除列管是因為我們自動障礙物偵測已經建完了測試驗收那為什麼在解除列管以後一段時間內還比較數量比較多是因為我們採用自動化的偵測所以有的人或是相關的物品在我們的防護區內他會告警告警我們的列車就會一度停車等這個確認沒有障礙物他才會通行"},{"start":705.709,"end":728.167,"text":"那現在目前整個系統的這個整個妥善率還有他的精準率都提高了所以現在這種情形其實是已經所以在晚3月你是叫我在往14年今年3月再往後看10個月沒關係我們下次來看一下我們總而言之我們希望實際解決問題不是paperwork文件最後怎麼樣去追蹤那請問一下"},{"start":733.551,"end":750.495,"text":"我們楊局長鐵道局因為我們有聽到有針對於這種安全的一個事項解除列管後面到底怎麼追蹤我們有看到你有專訪過你那你這邊特別寫解除列管分成三大類只要有明確執行的計畫著手執行就會從總體檢中解除列管這個沒問題"},{"start":756.477,"end":778.076,"text":"然後再來改由鐵道局的定期檢查機制來追蹤那我覺得這個追蹤那我剛剛講的情況你有沒有追蹤我不太清楚那可是之前王國才當部長的時候他特別說了一件事他說如果台鐵公司化之後"},{"start":779.117,"end":800.334,"text":"鐵道局代辦台鐵的工程他覺得不太適合來監管台鐵球員兼裁判我自己做的然後我再看看我做的好不好然後這個他是覺得有點奇怪然後他希望能夠把鐵道局的監管單位直接移到交通部這個大概目前的方向是如何你們說明一下做個結論目前有嗎 有在做嗎"},{"start":806.814,"end":835.02,"text":"這個部分我跟委員報告一下那個鐵路法已經修過了那只要是這個台鐵營運上面的監理就是我們鐵道局那鐵道局的工程監理那基本上就在部裡面那以前是在這一個路政司那現在改組完之後是在路政道安司那有些案子也會到公共運輸監理室來那所以鐵道局本身工程的監理鐵路法已經修了現在就鐵道局就對了在部裡面"},{"start":836.46,"end":856.751,"text":"交通部 反正鐵道局那我最後的結論是說因為票價六月底就要漲了民眾期待的不管安全品質也希望部長跟我們台鐵公司大家一定要加油讓大家看到你說你票價漲了 安全沒有漲這是不行的 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":896,"blocks":[["魯委員明哲：（12時8分）謝謝主席，有請交通部陳部長。"],["主席：交通部陳部長。"],["魯委員明哲：鐵道局楊局長。"],["主席：鐵道局楊局長。"],["魯委員明哲：臺鐵公司馮總，馮總有到嘛？"],["陳部長世凱：伍董事長跟馮總。"],["主席：臺鐵伍董事長。"],["魯委員明哲：臺鐵公司本身沒來，你就代表啦！"],["陳部長世凱：有，臺鐵公司總經理也在。"],["魯委員明哲：馮總呢？"],["主席：總經理也有來。"],["魯委員明哲：沒有嗎？人不見了？"],["陳部長世凱：有，他在門口。"],["主席：進來了，總經理，來。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["魯委員明哲：好，首先我們討論鐵道的安全，當然除了軌道本身、鐵路本身之外，整個站區的安全也是整體安全之一。","（播放影片）"],["魯委員明哲：好，這個部分有幾個問題，第一個，部長，被關在電梯裡面，你大概可以撐幾分鐘？耐力有沒有測試過？有沒有不小心被測試過？"],["陳部長世凱：沒有不小心被測試過，但如果超過5分鐘，我大概會滿害怕。"],["魯委員明哲：我是覺得最多10分鐘我會受不了。"],["陳部長世凱：5分鐘我覺得會滿害怕。"],["魯委員明哲：馮總經理，你會不會比較勇一點？因為臺鐵訓練的關係，你大概在電梯裡面可以撐多久？"],["馮總經理輝昇：一般大概是15分鐘，謝謝。"],["魯委員明哲：好，4月19日發生的事，因為中壢站是全臺灣吞吐量第三大站，而且在管制區內的電梯其實人經常是滿滿的，所以比起一般一、兩個人在電梯裡面，壓力是更大。現在的問題點是發生什麼事？4月19日事發之後，因為當時有這個通知，所以這則新聞是5天之後才做的，然後記者在測試的過程中，電梯裡面沒有擠人，他測試結果是怎麼找不到人，他按照上面的電話去打，打了電話說在開會，下午1點打電話說在開會，然後到4點，等了3個小時，到最後人還沒來，還好是實驗，就是演習。可是真正回到4月19日那一天，電梯裡面的人是很多的，然後按緊急對講機，據我瞭解，臺鐵公司有人接哦！有人值班，好像是副站長第一時間就走到電梯旁邊跟他們對看，可是對看沒什麼用，那就要請修電梯的來，最後等他40分鐘，真的也沒有辦法，還是在場的消防隊把它打開的，所以我要拜託你們，因為各地都有這樣的電梯，包括高鐵也一樣，人都很擁擠啊！你們的SOP怎麼樣我不清楚，後面一問才知道你們的合約是1個小時以內要到，我的天啊！部長是5分鐘，我是10分鐘啦！我跟你講，修電梯跟救人完全是兩件事，完全不同的事情嘛！所以我要拜託一下，你們的SOP是不是救人一定要優先？如果電梯要修、要恢復正常，1個小時也許還可以接受，那一天陳文德副局長也在那邊，我們有特別做了幾個建議要你們回去研究，總經理，說一下吧！研究結果能夠縮短到什麼時間來救人？"],["馮總經理輝昇：報告委員，目前廠商的時間已經縮短到30分鐘，也是委員在現場會勘給我們的一個指導要求，但是第一時間我們的對講機會連線行車室，第一時間我們值班副站長一定會到這個電梯去關懷受困旅客，這個部分是回答委員剛才說的時間問題。"],["魯委員明哲：好，第二個問題，30分鐘事實上他到了，那是你們的合約啦！我也沒辦法，可是對於救人來講還是稍微長了一點，所以我要拜託你，如果電梯在正常位置的時候，我要拜託你們的工作人員，因為很多機械都會嘛！也要有一些值班人員做簡單的處理，如果電梯沒有到樓層的定位，說真的，那是誰也沒辦法啦！但是如果它到定位，可以對到門，我們是希望第一個，在臺鐵各站要有人能夠第一優先解決；第二個，消防隊有到的，也能夠讓他去做處理，因為那一天消防隊到打電話給公司，公司還叫他不要碰電梯，這樣不行欸！救人優先，來，部長講一下，你覺得救人優先吧？你做個結論，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，當然是要救人優先，我的想法和您一樣，關於我們在站裡面的站務人員有沒有這個基礎能力可以去處理，這個部分其實是可以訓練的，讓他們有這樣子的能力可以快速先來解決，不然對民眾來講，我即便看到你在窗外，但我出不去，心裡面會非常害怕，所以這個部分請臺鐵公司趕快來落實。"],["魯委員明哲：好的，麻煩把全國相關的情況都改善一下，尤其它這個是4座電梯，2座是在外圍，行人也可以走，是中壢區公所管理的，內圍的是臺鐵的，所以這個部分麻煩你們要合作一下。","接下來是臺鐵的總體檢，我們發覺已經兩千多天了，6年半，這是自普悠瑪事件之後，我們政府下定決心要給臺鐵做總體檢，事實上你們也解決了很多的列管，現在未解除列管的總共有16項，當然我比較care的是安全改革到底發生了什麼問題。我們看簡報右邊，你們的總體檢解除列管流程，第一個是臺鐵先自己擬定改善計畫，第二個是你們成立一個安全管理委員會來做計畫的審查。過去臺鐵在交通部，還沒有成立公司的時候，我覺得這個合理啦！現在它公司化了，你知道嗎？第一關是臺鐵，然後審查臺鐵報告的人，在十幾位裡面雖然有外聘委員5到6位，但它也是臺鐵內部，所以第一關臺鐵提報告計畫，第二關也是臺鐵，整個弄好之後才由第三關交通部解除列管，部長，你覺得這個程序在他們公司化之後，第二關要不要給鐵道局還是誰？你說一下好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：是，報告委員，過去的流程是這個樣子，現在改制公司化之後，確實這個流程我們來做一下檢討，有沒有可能稍微做改變，或者是針對合理性，到底應該怎麼做會比較合理，這個部分我認為是應該做檢討，畢竟公司化之後跟過去的狀況是完全不一樣的。現在的臺鐵是公司，它不像過去是公務機關有一些公權力，目前的臺鐵是公司，不一定有這個公權力在，這個部分我們來做檢討。"],["魯委員明哲：好，謝謝部長，你們跟鐵道局研究一下啦！因為第一個，才剛寫完報告，不管是機電或什麼問題，它寫完報告，然後它又入列來審查，我覺得是有點奇怪。","我們來看看，安全管委會現在是在臺鐵公司裡面，雖然有部分的外聘委員，但是對於討論的一些結果，當然我不知道會不會有以偏概全，哇！你全部都做得很好，100項有99項都做好，被魯明哲委員挑了1項，會不會有這種情況我不清楚。不過我們來看一下，自帶安全委員會，你們臺鐵也通過囉！改善報告是臺鐵公司寫的，然後自己審查覺得OK，審查的事項是什麼呢？希望能夠導入自動化、智慧化系統來簡化人力，避免他們犯錯，就是原本沒有一些系統，希望能夠導入，這個用詞很清楚嘛！然後簡化一些人力的疏失，系統可以發現，結果呢？你們也通過安全管理委員會的審議，我滿佩服的，臺鐵公司提了3個方案，導入自動化跟智慧化，是我沒看懂嗎？第一，強化各單位人員現場實作訓練，沒有系統啊！第二，成立北中南東員工訓練所，弄了4個教室出來，讓人可以培訓。第三，對人員建立回訓制度。因為時間的關係，我是覺得沒有對到答案，是不是把其他改善事項的答案不小心放在這邊？這是什麼情況？這個麻煩你們回去研究一下。","我想請教一下交通部部長，剛剛是第二關安全委員會的審查，最終run完之後要解除列管，要送交通部審查同意解除列管，我們又看了一個是你們已經解除列管的，是什麼呢？平交道防護設施異常訊號處理，這是什麼時候解除列管的？在圖的下方，去年5月15日解除列管應該就沒問題了，改善完畢了，但是改善完畢不到18天，新聞媒體就在報，這好像是嘉義的新聞，說半年大概發生四、五次，平交道的防護柵欄還是一直有問題，其實滿危險的耶！有問題到列車要停下來，然後列車長下車配合手動，把相關的設施做個處理。","我們再看右邊的圖，在你解列之前，113年5月份解除列管往前推10個月，依臺鐵給我們的報告，發生了7件類似事件，但是你解除列管往後推10個月，發生了11件。因為我覺得民眾包括你們的想法都一樣，我們希望大家努力了半天，報告也寫了，我相信也想辦法去落實，想辦法去改善，終於解除列管了，可是感覺實際的效果不夠啊！部長，你說一下你的想法吧！"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，列管如果要解除，必然是達到我們認為它會改善的標準，所以才會解除列管，我們當然期待解除列管之後要看出改善的成效，不過就委員所提出的這個部分，很明顯看出來很像沒有改善的成效，這個原因臺鐵要不要說一下？我們解除了列管，但是之後卻更多。"],["馮總經理輝昇：報告委員，解除列管是因為我們的自動障礙物偵測已經建完了，有測試、驗收，為什麼在解除列管以後一段時間內會數量比較多？是因為我們採用自動化偵測，所以有人或是相關的物品在防護區內它會告警，我們的列車就會一度停車，等確認沒有障礙物才會通行。目前整個系統的妥善率還有精準率都提高了，所以現在這種情形其實已經慢慢……"],["魯委員明哲：所以你是叫我從114年3月再往後看10個月？沒關係，我們下次來看一下。總而言之，我們希望實際解決問題，不是paperwork文件。","最後，怎麼樣去追蹤，請問一下鐵道局楊局長，針對這種安全事項解除列管，後面到底怎麼追蹤，我們有看到你的專訪，這邊特別寫到解除列管分成三大類，只要有明確執行計畫並著手執行，就會從總體檢中解除列管，這個沒問題。再來，改由鐵道局的定期檢查機制來追蹤，我覺得這個追蹤，我剛剛講的情況你有沒有追蹤，我不太清楚，可是之前王國材當部長的時候，他特別說了一件事，他說如果臺鐵公司化之後，鐵道局代辦臺鐵的工程，他覺得不太適合來監管臺鐵，因為球員兼裁判，我自己做的，然後我再看看我做得好不好，他是覺得有點奇怪，所以他希望能夠把鐵道局的監管單位直接移到交通部，大概目前的方向是如何？你們說明一下，做個結論。"],["林司長福山：這個部分我跟委員報告一下，鐵路法已經修過了，只要是臺鐵營運上面的監理就是我們鐵道局，至於鐵道局的工程監理，基本上就在部裡面，以前是在路政司，現在改組完之後是在路政道安司，有些案子也會到公共運輸監理司來，所以鐵道局本身工程的監理，鐵路法已經修了……"],["魯委員明哲：所以沒有問題？"],["林司長福山：對。"],["魯委員明哲：現在就由鐵道局就對了？"],["林司長福山：在部裡面。"],["魯委員明哲：確定哦？"],["陳部長世凱：交通部。"],["魯委員明哲：交通部，反正就是鐵道局的部分。","我最後的結論是，因為票價6月底就要漲了，對於民眾所期待的，不管是安全、品質，也希望部長跟臺鐵公司一定要加油，讓大家看到，不然你說你票價漲了，安全沒有漲，這是不行的，謝謝。"],["陳部長世凱：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝魯明哲委員。","接下來請許智傑召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":462,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-9","speakers":["林國成","洪孟楷","李昆澤","傅崐萁","陳雪生","何欣純","廖先翔","蔡其昌","吳宗憲","陳素月","林俊憲","徐富癸","魯明哲","許智傑","王義川","鍾佳濱","張啓楷","邱若華","邱志偉","黃建賓","王美惠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李柏毅","游顥","陳冠廷","徐欣瑩","蔡易餘","林德福","黃健豪","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":373,"meetingDate":["2025-04-30"],"gazette_id":"1144301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144301_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部民用航空局局長何淑萍、交通部鐵道局局長楊正君、國營臺灣鐵\n路股份有限公司代理董事長伍勝園、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長鄭光遠、中華航空股份有\n限公司董事長高星潢及國家運輸安全調查委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「近期我國航空、鐵路運\n營安全事件之檢討與改善及臺鐵票價調整方案」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144301_00008"}}}