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\"然後開始抗議然後抗議整個228事件最後演變到了三二事件也就是在水上機場的大幅的這個軍民的一個這個直接可以說是武裝對峙那甚至當時在水上機場爆發的武裝對峙我們知道了還有所謂空投軍糧給在水上機場的人所以整個228事件發生\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 136.289, \"end\": 136.569, \"score\": 0.646}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 136.569, \"end\": 136.809, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 136.809, \"end\": 137.529, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"抗\", \"start\": 137.529, \"end\": 137.769, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 137.769, \"end\": 138.049, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 138.049, \"end\": 138.289, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"抗\", \"start\": 138.289, \"end\": 138.589, \"score\": 0.737}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 138.589, \"end\": 139.27, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 139.27, \"end\": 139.45, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 139.45, \"end\": 140.23, \"score\": 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\"text\": \"最重大的衝突就是從嘉義的火車站延伸到了水上機場那水上機場就在現在北回車站的正對面所以以這段故事來說我們認為說嘉義我們在於規劃這個鐵路高架化的公共藝術的時候那以及現在我們對於不當遺址我剛講了嘉義火車站以及北回\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 162.774, \"end\": 163.174, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 163.174, \"end\": 163.414, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 163.414, \"end\": 163.555, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 163.555, \"end\": 163.915, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"衝\"}, {\"word\": \"突\", \"start\": 163.915, \"end\": 164.155, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 164.155, \"end\": 164.295, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 164.295, \"end\": 164.815, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"嘉\", \"start\": 164.815, \"end\": 165.296, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 165.296, \"end\": 165.436, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"火\", \"start\": 165.436, \"end\": 165.816, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"車\"}, {\"word\": \"站\", \"start\": 165.816, 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\"來\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 174.742, \"end\": 176.063, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"嘉\", \"start\": 176.063, \"end\": 176.623, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 176.623, \"end\": 176.903, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 176.903, \"end\": 177.404, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 177.404, \"end\": 178.785, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"鐵\"}, {\"word\": \"路\", \"start\": 178.785, \"end\": 178.985, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 178.985, \"end\": 179.165, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"架\", \"start\": 179.165, \"end\": 179.365, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 179.365, \"end\": 179.545, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 179.545, \"end\": 179.725, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 179.725, \"end\": 180.005, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 180.005, \"end\": 180.606, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"藝\"}, {\"word\": \"術\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 180.606, \"end\": 180.886, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 180.886, \"end\": 181.326, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 181.326, \"end\": 181.546, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 181.546, \"end\": 181.787, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 181.787, \"end\": 182.247, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 182.247, \"end\": 182.507, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 182.507, \"end\": 183.007, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 183.007, \"end\": 183.227, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 183.227, \"end\": 183.968, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"遺\"}, {\"word\": \"址\", \"start\": 183.968, \"end\": 184.388, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 184.388, \"end\": 184.909, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 184.909, \"end\": 185.069, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"嘉\", \"start\": 185.069, \"end\": 185.449, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"火\", \"start\": 185.449, \"end\": 185.829, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"車\"}, {\"word\": \"站\", \"start\": 185.829, \"end\": 186.069, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 186.069, \"end\": 186.209, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 186.209, \"end\": 186.45, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"北\", \"start\": 186.45, \"end\": 186.67, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 186.67, \"end\": 186.69, \"score\": 0.996}]}, {\"start\": 187.73, \"end\": 212.75, \"text\": \"機場前面這裡都是屬於不當遺址那我們基於對文化不當遺址的保存我認為鐵道局有責任在於規劃這些公共藝術的時候必須要把這些不當遺址他們當年所發生的元素不管用怎樣的呈現方式要在這兩個地點把這些元素把它放到公共藝術裡面這個有問題嗎來\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 187.73, \"end\": 187.931, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 187.931, \"end\": 188.591, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 188.591, \"end\": 188.791, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 188.791, \"end\": 189.132, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 189.132, \"end\": 189.252, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 189.252, \"end\": 189.872, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"遺\"}, {\"word\": \"址\", \"start\": 189.872, \"end\": 190.533, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 190.533, \"end\": 190.713, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 190.713, \"end\": 191.013, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 191.013, \"end\": 191.173, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 191.173, \"end\": 191.553, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 191.553, 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206.605, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 206.605, \"end\": 206.745, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"呈\", \"start\": 206.745, \"end\": 207.206, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 207.206, \"end\": 207.466, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 207.466, \"end\": 208.026, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 208.026, \"end\": 208.387, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 208.387, \"end\": 209.788, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 209.788, \"end\": 210.408, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 210.408, \"end\": 210.748, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 210.748, \"end\": 210.928, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"元\", \"start\": 210.928, \"end\": 211.189, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"素\", \"start\": 211.189, \"end\": 211.429, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"把\", 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389.698, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 389.698, \"end\": 389.878, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 389.878, \"end\": 389.998, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 389.998, \"end\": 390.138, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 390.138, \"end\": 390.238, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 390.238, \"end\": 390.338, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 390.338, \"end\": 390.358, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,373 --> 00:00:07,484\n好謝謝主席那我們是有請這個交通部陳部長跟鐵道局陳副局長\n\n2\n00:00:21,749 --> 00:00:36,964\n好部長部長基於這個兩年前所頒布的文化藝術講座及促進條例那第15條第一項公有建築物及重大公共工程的新辦因辦理公共藝術營造美學環境\n\n3\n00:00:39,646 --> 00:00:58,076\n其辦理經費不得少於該建築物及公共工程造價的1%所以我們嘉義市的鐵路高架化因為嘉義市的鐵路高架化除了在嘉義市之外很大的量體是在嘉義縣的水上鄉包括北回車站以及包括整個車輛基地\n\n4\n00:00:59,336 --> 00:01:22,422\n很大的量體在水上箱那我們也知道說整個嘉義的鐵路高架化總經費334億中央負擔了276億那所以在於基於我剛剛說的這一個文化的一個促進條例那他應該要核定公共藝術最後核定了2.53億我覺得這2.53億事實上比總預算的334億還要少\n\n5\n00:01:28,043 --> 00:01:35,609\n這個第一個問題啦不過已經核定了就核定了那我現在要講在接下來的部分那所以接下來的部分我們來看下一頁那這下一頁就把這樣的一個公共藝術的一個設置計畫我們看到在嘉義車站有480萬那嘉義車站的風雨走廊4500萬那以及我剛剛講的在於北回車站1200萬\n\n6\n00:01:51,693 --> 00:02:12,527\n水上車輛基地6400萬那有這樣的一個公共藝術的一個規劃這些也都沒問題那現在問題來了我要講嘉義車站跟北回車站這兩個嘉義車站咧是228事件當年有我們嘉義市最有名的畫家陳澄波那以及像潘木之這樣很多的社會賢達他們在嘉義車站這邊\n\n7\n00:02:16,289 --> 00:02:37,053\n然後開始抗議然後抗議整個228事件最後演變到了三二事件也就是在水上機場的大幅的這個軍民的一個這個直接可以說是武裝對峙那甚至當時在水上機場爆發的武裝對峙我們知道了還有所謂空投軍糧給在水上機場的人所以整個228事件發生\n\n8\n00:02:42,774 --> 00:03:06,690\n最重大的衝突就是從嘉義的火車站延伸到了水上機場那水上機場就在現在北回車站的正對面所以以這段故事來說我們認為說嘉義我們在於規劃這個鐵路高架化的公共藝術的時候那以及現在我們對於不當遺址我剛講了嘉義火車站以及北回\n\n9\n00:03:07,730 --> 00:03:32,750\n機場前面這裡都是屬於不當遺址那我們基於對文化不當遺址的保存我認為鐵道局有責任在於規劃這些公共藝術的時候必須要把這些不當遺址他們當年所發生的元素不管用怎樣的呈現方式要在這兩個地點把這些元素把它放到公共藝術裡面這個有問題嗎來\n\n10\n00:03:36,562 --> 00:04:01,284\n報告委員您提的這個建議非常好啦我覺得這個歷史的記憶在當地還是必須要做一些呈現畢竟當時發生事情就是交通運具的周邊所發生的這個歷史的印記一直在那個地方所以我們目前正在研議這件事情那剛好委員現在有這個建議我們就把它現在在研議中對所以我現在其實我要趕快把\n\n11\n00:04:02,264 --> 00:04:28,718\n這個訊息要給你們因為接下來立法院文化委員會也正在審理不當遺址的一個保存的一個條例所以未來這個相關的法案是要整併在一起的那你把它整併在一起看的話整個228事件在嘉義發生最嚴重的這個軍民衝突的一個地點那水上這個車輛基地或者是這個嘉義車站都是應該要慎重考量的\n\n12\n00:04:29,478 --> 00:04:53,458\n所以在講這個部長我覺得你這樣一個善意的回應我就很感動我覺得我要把整個這個故事講完因為嘉義在228事件是好多我們自己很讚的這些社會的賢達在228事件犧牲就包括陳澄波好多人都在這個事件犧牲所以在嘉義過去曾經有一個爭議就是我們要興建228紀念碑\n\n13\n00:04:55,279 --> 00:05:19,581\n那228紀念碑咧原本他就把它要用在228公園228公園當時有一個銅像叫做無縫銅像那後來有一個鄒族嘉義鄒族原住民鄒族的年輕人把無縫銅像把它拉倒後然後決心說在這個銅像這裡把它改成228紀念碑那後來沒有在沒有在我剛講的地點他就選擇在彌陀路跟忠義路的地點叫做228紀念碑\n\n14\n00:05:20,902 --> 00:05:46,452\n大家都說那裡交通車流量多所以那一個紀念碑放在那個地點又會影響到交通所以後來曾經辦了一個iVoting的一個票選iVoting票選結果你知道哪裡是票選第一名嗎有三個地點叫228紀念碑園子第二個就是228紀念公園第三個就是嘉義火車站這三個地點然後讓大家票選票選出來嘉義火車站第一名大家認為應該是人啊\n\n15\n00:05:47,372 --> 00:06:15,552\n大家認為說228的元素在嘉義火車站那就是所有人用iVoting投出來的票選第一名主要很可惜那個票選是當年這個嘉義市政府肯認的一個票選活動可是後來沒有執行沒有照iVoting執行看起來有壓力那我覺得整個社會一直在改變現在大家對於轉型正義的想像已經不是那麼會有那麼大的壓力那我們應該要勇敢就去執行\n\n16\n00:06:16,893 --> 00:06:30,358\n這個地方過去發生這樣的歷史我們就是要用公共藝術把它呈現出來然後在公共藝術的背後用一些文字上的一個載述可以讓我們後代的子孫都知道過去在我們家裡車頭在我們家裡機場發生的事情這都要讓大家知道好不好好這個我們一定會做好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3373\t7484\t好謝謝主席那我們是有請這個交通部陳部長跟鐵道局陳副局長\n21749\t36964\t好 部長部長基於這個兩年前所頒布的文化藝術講座及促進條例那第15條第一項公有建築物及重大公共工程的新辦因辦理公共藝術營造美學環境\n39646\t58076\t其辦理經費不得少於該建築物及公共工程造價的1%所以我們嘉義市的鐵路高架化因為嘉義市的鐵路高架化除了在嘉義市之外很大的量體是在嘉義縣的水上鄉包括北回車站以及包括整個車輛基地\n59336\t82422\t很大的量體在水上箱那我們也知道說整個嘉義的鐵路高架化總經費334億中央負擔了276億那所以在於基於我剛剛說的這一個文化的一個促進條例那他應該要核定公共藝術最後核定了2.53億我覺得這2.53億事實上比總預算的334億還要少\n88043\t95609\t這個第一個問題啦不過已經核定了就核定了那我現在要講在接下來的部分那所以接下來的部分我們來看下一頁那這下一頁就把這樣的一個公共藝術的一個設置計畫我們看到在嘉義車站有480萬那嘉義車站的風雨走廊4500萬那以及我剛剛講的在於北回車站1200萬\n111693\t132527\t水上車輛基地6400萬那有這樣的一個公共藝術的一個規劃這些也都沒問題那現在問題來了我要講嘉義車站跟北回車站這兩個嘉義車站咧是228事件當年有我們嘉義市最有名的畫家陳澄波那以及像潘木之這樣很多的社會賢達他們在嘉義車站這邊\n136289\t157053\t然後開始抗議然後抗議整個228事件最後演變到了三二事件也就是在水上機場的大幅的這個軍民的一個這個直接可以說是武裝對峙那甚至當時在水上機場爆發的武裝對峙我們知道了還有所謂空投軍糧給在水上機場的人所以整個228事件發生\n162774\t186690\t最重大的衝突就是從嘉義的火車站延伸到了水上機場那水上機場就在現在北回車站的正對面所以以這段故事來說我們認為說嘉義我們在於規劃這個鐵路高架化的公共藝術的時候那以及現在我們對於不當遺址我剛講了嘉義火車站以及北回\n187730\t212750\t機場前面這裡都是屬於不當遺址那我們基於對文化不當遺址的保存我認為鐵道局有責任在於規劃這些公共藝術的時候必須要把這些不當遺址他們當年所發生的元素不管用怎樣的呈現方式要在這兩個地點把這些元素把它放到公共藝術裡面這個有問題嗎來\n216562\t241284\t報告委員您提的這個建議非常好啦我覺得這個歷史的記憶在當地還是必須要做一些呈現畢竟當時發生事情就是交通運具的周邊所發生的這個歷史的印記一直在那個地方所以我們目前正在研議這件事情那剛好委員現在有這個建議我們就把它現在在研議中對所以我現在其實我要趕快把\n242264\t268718\t這個訊息要給你們因為接下來立法院文化委員會也正在審理不當遺址的一個保存的一個條例所以未來這個相關的法案是要整併在一起的那你把它整併在一起看的話整個228事件在嘉義發生最嚴重的這個軍民衝突的一個地點那水上這個車輛基地或者是這個嘉義車站都是應該要慎重考量的\n269478\t293458\t所以在講這個部長我覺得你這樣一個善意的回應我就很感動我覺得我要把整個這個故事講完因為嘉義在228事件是好多我們自己很讚的這些社會的賢達在228事件犧牲就包括陳澄波好多人都在這個事件犧牲所以在嘉義過去曾經有一個爭議就是我們要興建228紀念碑\n295279\t319581\t那228紀念碑咧原本他就把它要用在228公園228公園當時有一個銅像叫做無縫銅像那後來有一個鄒族嘉義鄒族原住民鄒族的年輕人把無縫銅像把它拉倒後然後決心說在這個銅像這裡把它改成228紀念碑那後來沒有在沒有在我剛講的地點他就選擇在彌陀路跟忠義路的地點叫做228紀念碑\n320902\t346452\t大家都說那裡交通車流量多所以那一個紀念碑放在那個地點又會影響到交通所以後來曾經辦了一個iVoting的一個票選iVoting票選結果你知道哪裡是票選第一名嗎有三個地點叫228紀念碑園子第二個就是228紀念公園第三個就是嘉義火車站這三個地點然後讓大家票選票選出來嘉義火車站第一名大家認為應該是人啊\n347372\t375552\t大家認為說228的元素在嘉義火車站那就是所有人用iVoting投出來的票選第一名主要很可惜那個票選是當年這個嘉義市政府肯認的一個票選活動可是後來沒有執行沒有照iVoting執行看起來有壓力那我覺得整個社會一直在改變現在大家對於轉型正義的想像已經不是那麼會有那麼大的壓力那我們應該要勇敢就去執行\n376893\t390358\t這個地方過去發生這樣的歷史我們就是要用公共藝術把它呈現出來然後在公共藝術的背後用一些文字上的一個載述可以讓我們後代的子孫都知道過去在我們家裡車頭在我們家裡機場發生的事情這都要讓大家知道好不好好 這個我們一定會做好 謝謝\n","txt":"好謝謝主席那我們是有請這個交通部陳部長跟鐵道局陳副局長\n好 部長部長基於這個兩年前所頒布的文化藝術講座及促進條例那第15條第一項公有建築物及重大公共工程的新辦因辦理公共藝術營造美學環境\n其辦理經費不得少於該建築物及公共工程造價的1%所以我們嘉義市的鐵路高架化因為嘉義市的鐵路高架化除了在嘉義市之外很大的量體是在嘉義縣的水上鄉包括北回車站以及包括整個車輛基地\n很大的量體在水上箱那我們也知道說整個嘉義的鐵路高架化總經費334億中央負擔了276億那所以在於基於我剛剛說的這一個文化的一個促進條例那他應該要核定公共藝術最後核定了2.53億我覺得這2.53億事實上比總預算的334億還要少\n這個第一個問題啦不過已經核定了就核定了那我現在要講在接下來的部分那所以接下來的部分我們來看下一頁那這下一頁就把這樣的一個公共藝術的一個設置計畫我們看到在嘉義車站有480萬那嘉義車站的風雨走廊4500萬那以及我剛剛講的在於北回車站1200萬\n水上車輛基地6400萬那有這樣的一個公共藝術的一個規劃這些也都沒問題那現在問題來了我要講嘉義車站跟北回車站這兩個嘉義車站咧是228事件當年有我們嘉義市最有名的畫家陳澄波那以及像潘木之這樣很多的社會賢達他們在嘉義車站這邊\n然後開始抗議然後抗議整個228事件最後演變到了三二事件也就是在水上機場的大幅的這個軍民的一個這個直接可以說是武裝對峙那甚至當時在水上機場爆發的武裝對峙我們知道了還有所謂空投軍糧給在水上機場的人所以整個228事件發生\n最重大的衝突就是從嘉義的火車站延伸到了水上機場那水上機場就在現在北回車站的正對面所以以這段故事來說我們認為說嘉義我們在於規劃這個鐵路高架化的公共藝術的時候那以及現在我們對於不當遺址我剛講了嘉義火車站以及北回\n機場前面這裡都是屬於不當遺址那我們基於對文化不當遺址的保存我認為鐵道局有責任在於規劃這些公共藝術的時候必須要把這些不當遺址他們當年所發生的元素不管用怎樣的呈現方式要在這兩個地點把這些元素把它放到公共藝術裡面這個有問題嗎來\n報告委員您提的這個建議非常好啦我覺得這個歷史的記憶在當地還是必須要做一些呈現畢竟當時發生事情就是交通運具的周邊所發生的這個歷史的印記一直在那個地方所以我們目前正在研議這件事情那剛好委員現在有這個建議我們就把它現在在研議中對所以我現在其實我要趕快把\n這個訊息要給你們因為接下來立法院文化委員會也正在審理不當遺址的一個保存的一個條例所以未來這個相關的法案是要整併在一起的那你把它整併在一起看的話整個228事件在嘉義發生最嚴重的這個軍民衝突的一個地點那水上這個車輛基地或者是這個嘉義車站都是應該要慎重考量的\n所以在講這個部長我覺得你這樣一個善意的回應我就很感動我覺得我要把整個這個故事講完因為嘉義在228事件是好多我們自己很讚的這些社會的賢達在228事件犧牲就包括陳澄波好多人都在這個事件犧牲所以在嘉義過去曾經有一個爭議就是我們要興建228紀念碑\n那228紀念碑咧原本他就把它要用在228公園228公園當時有一個銅像叫做無縫銅像那後來有一個鄒族嘉義鄒族原住民鄒族的年輕人把無縫銅像把它拉倒後然後決心說在這個銅像這裡把它改成228紀念碑那後來沒有在沒有在我剛講的地點他就選擇在彌陀路跟忠義路的地點叫做228紀念碑\n大家都說那裡交通車流量多所以那一個紀念碑放在那個地點又會影響到交通所以後來曾經辦了一個iVoting的一個票選iVoting票選結果你知道哪裡是票選第一名嗎有三個地點叫228紀念碑園子第二個就是228紀念公園第三個就是嘉義火車站這三個地點然後讓大家票選票選出來嘉義火車站第一名大家認為應該是人啊\n大家認為說228的元素在嘉義火車站那就是所有人用iVoting投出來的票選第一名主要很可惜那個票選是當年這個嘉義市政府肯認的一個票選活動可是後來沒有執行沒有照iVoting執行看起來有壓力那我覺得整個社會一直在改變現在大家對於轉型正義的想像已經不是那麼會有那麼大的壓力那我們應該要勇敢就去執行\n這個地方過去發生這樣的歷史我們就是要用公共藝術把它呈現出來然後在公共藝術的背後用一些文字上的一個載述可以讓我們後代的子孫都知道過去在我們家裡車頭在我們家裡機場發生的事情這都要讓大家知道好不好好 這個我們一定會做好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.373 --> 00:07.484\n好謝謝主席那我們是有請這個交通部陳部長跟鐵道局陳副局長\n\n00:21.749 --> 00:36.964\n好部長部長基於這個兩年前所頒布的文化藝術講座及促進條例那第15條第一項公有建築物及重大公共工程的新辦因辦理公共藝術營造美學環境\n\n00:39.646 --> 00:58.076\n其辦理經費不得少於該建築物及公共工程造價的1%所以我們嘉義市的鐵路高架化因為嘉義市的鐵路高架化除了在嘉義市之外很大的量體是在嘉義縣的水上鄉包括北回車站以及包括整個車輛基地\n\n00:59.336 --> 01:22.422\n很大的量體在水上箱那我們也知道說整個嘉義的鐵路高架化總經費334億中央負擔了276億那所以在於基於我剛剛說的這一個文化的一個促進條例那他應該要核定公共藝術最後核定了2.53億我覺得這2.53億事實上比總預算的334億還要少\n\n01:28.043 --> 01:35.609\n這個第一個問題啦不過已經核定了就核定了那我現在要講在接下來的部分那所以接下來的部分我們來看下一頁那這下一頁就把這樣的一個公共藝術的一個設置計畫我們看到在嘉義車站有480萬那嘉義車站的風雨走廊4500萬那以及我剛剛講的在於北回車站1200萬\n\n01:51.693 --> 02:12.527\n水上車輛基地6400萬那有這樣的一個公共藝術的一個規劃這些也都沒問題那現在問題來了我要講嘉義車站跟北回車站這兩個嘉義車站咧是228事件當年有我們嘉義市最有名的畫家陳澄波那以及像潘木之這樣很多的社會賢達他們在嘉義車站這邊\n\n02:16.289 --> 02:37.053\n然後開始抗議然後抗議整個228事件最後演變到了三二事件也就是在水上機場的大幅的這個軍民的一個這個直接可以說是武裝對峙那甚至當時在水上機場爆發的武裝對峙我們知道了還有所謂空投軍糧給在水上機場的人所以整個228事件發生\n\n02:42.774 --> 03:06.690\n最重大的衝突就是從嘉義的火車站延伸到了水上機場那水上機場就在現在北回車站的正對面所以以這段故事來說我們認為說嘉義我們在於規劃這個鐵路高架化的公共藝術的時候那以及現在我們對於不當遺址我剛講了嘉義火車站以及北回\n\n03:07.730 --> 03:32.750\n機場前面這裡都是屬於不當遺址那我們基於對文化不當遺址的保存我認為鐵道局有責任在於規劃這些公共藝術的時候必須要把這些不當遺址他們當年所發生的元素不管用怎樣的呈現方式要在這兩個地點把這些元素把它放到公共藝術裡面這個有問題嗎來\n\n03:36.562 --> 04:01.284\n報告委員您提的這個建議非常好啦我覺得這個歷史的記憶在當地還是必須要做一些呈現畢竟當時發生事情就是交通運具的周邊所發生的這個歷史的印記一直在那個地方所以我們目前正在研議這件事情那剛好委員現在有這個建議我們就把它現在在研議中對所以我現在其實我要趕快把\n\n04:02.264 --> 04:28.718\n這個訊息要給你們因為接下來立法院文化委員會也正在審理不當遺址的一個保存的一個條例所以未來這個相關的法案是要整併在一起的那你把它整併在一起看的話整個228事件在嘉義發生最嚴重的這個軍民衝突的一個地點那水上這個車輛基地或者是這個嘉義車站都是應該要慎重考量的\n\n04:29.478 --> 04:53.458\n所以在講這個部長我覺得你這樣一個善意的回應我就很感動我覺得我要把整個這個故事講完因為嘉義在228事件是好多我們自己很讚的這些社會的賢達在228事件犧牲就包括陳澄波好多人都在這個事件犧牲所以在嘉義過去曾經有一個爭議就是我們要興建228紀念碑\n\n04:55.279 --> 05:19.581\n那228紀念碑咧原本他就把它要用在228公園228公園當時有一個銅像叫做無縫銅像那後來有一個鄒族嘉義鄒族原住民鄒族的年輕人把無縫銅像把它拉倒後然後決心說在這個銅像這裡把它改成228紀念碑那後來沒有在沒有在我剛講的地點他就選擇在彌陀路跟忠義路的地點叫做228紀念碑\n\n05:20.902 --> 05:46.452\n大家都說那裡交通車流量多所以那一個紀念碑放在那個地點又會影響到交通所以後來曾經辦了一個iVoting的一個票選iVoting票選結果你知道哪裡是票選第一名嗎有三個地點叫228紀念碑園子第二個就是228紀念公園第三個就是嘉義火車站這三個地點然後讓大家票選票選出來嘉義火車站第一名大家認為應該是人啊\n\n05:47.372 --> 06:15.552\n大家認為說228的元素在嘉義火車站那就是所有人用iVoting投出來的票選第一名主要很可惜那個票選是當年這個嘉義市政府肯認的一個票選活動可是後來沒有執行沒有照iVoting執行看起來有壓力那我覺得整個社會一直在改變現在大家對於轉型正義的想像已經不是那麼會有那麼大的壓力那我們應該要勇敢就去執行\n\n06:16.893 --> 06:30.358\n這個地方過去發生這樣的歷史我們就是要用公共藝術把它呈現出來然後在公共藝術的背後用一些文字上的一個載述可以讓我們後代的子孫都知道過去在我們家裡車頭在我們家裡機場發生的事情這都要讓大家知道好不好好這個我們一定會做好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.373,"end":7.484,"text":"好謝謝主席那我們是有請這個交通部陳部長跟鐵道局陳副局長"},{"start":21.749,"end":36.964,"text":"好 部長部長基於這個兩年前所頒布的文化藝術講座及促進條例那第15條第一項公有建築物及重大公共工程的新辦因辦理公共藝術營造美學環境"},{"start":39.646,"end":58.076,"text":"其辦理經費不得少於該建築物及公共工程造價的1%所以我們嘉義市的鐵路高架化因為嘉義市的鐵路高架化除了在嘉義市之外很大的量體是在嘉義縣的水上鄉包括北回車站以及包括整個車輛基地"},{"start":59.336,"end":82.422,"text":"很大的量體在水上箱那我們也知道說整個嘉義的鐵路高架化總經費334億中央負擔了276億那所以在於基於我剛剛說的這一個文化的一個促進條例那他應該要核定公共藝術最後核定了2.53億我覺得這2.53億事實上比總預算的334億還要少"},{"start":88.043,"end":95.609,"text":"這個第一個問題啦不過已經核定了就核定了那我現在要講在接下來的部分那所以接下來的部分我們來看下一頁那這下一頁就把這樣的一個公共藝術的一個設置計畫我們看到在嘉義車站有480萬那嘉義車站的風雨走廊4500萬那以及我剛剛講的在於北回車站1200萬"},{"start":111.693,"end":132.527,"text":"水上車輛基地6400萬那有這樣的一個公共藝術的一個規劃這些也都沒問題那現在問題來了我要講嘉義車站跟北回車站這兩個嘉義車站咧是228事件當年有我們嘉義市最有名的畫家陳澄波那以及像潘木之這樣很多的社會賢達他們在嘉義車站這邊"},{"start":136.289,"end":157.053,"text":"然後開始抗議然後抗議整個228事件最後演變到了三二事件也就是在水上機場的大幅的這個軍民的一個這個直接可以說是武裝對峙那甚至當時在水上機場爆發的武裝對峙我們知道了還有所謂空投軍糧給在水上機場的人所以整個228事件發生"},{"start":162.774,"end":186.69,"text":"最重大的衝突就是從嘉義的火車站延伸到了水上機場那水上機場就在現在北回車站的正對面所以以這段故事來說我們認為說嘉義我們在於規劃這個鐵路高架化的公共藝術的時候那以及現在我們對於不當遺址我剛講了嘉義火車站以及北回"},{"start":187.73,"end":212.75,"text":"機場前面這裡都是屬於不當遺址那我們基於對文化不當遺址的保存我認為鐵道局有責任在於規劃這些公共藝術的時候必須要把這些不當遺址他們當年所發生的元素不管用怎樣的呈現方式要在這兩個地點把這些元素把它放到公共藝術裡面這個有問題嗎來"},{"start":216.562,"end":241.284,"text":"報告委員您提的這個建議非常好啦我覺得這個歷史的記憶在當地還是必須要做一些呈現畢竟當時發生事情就是交通運具的周邊所發生的這個歷史的印記一直在那個地方所以我們目前正在研議這件事情那剛好委員現在有這個建議我們就把它現在在研議中對所以我現在其實我要趕快把"},{"start":242.264,"end":268.718,"text":"這個訊息要給你們因為接下來立法院文化委員會也正在審理不當遺址的一個保存的一個條例所以未來這個相關的法案是要整併在一起的那你把它整併在一起看的話整個228事件在嘉義發生最嚴重的這個軍民衝突的一個地點那水上這個車輛基地或者是這個嘉義車站都是應該要慎重考量的"},{"start":269.478,"end":293.458,"text":"所以在講這個部長我覺得你這樣一個善意的回應我就很感動我覺得我要把整個這個故事講完因為嘉義在228事件是好多我們自己很讚的這些社會的賢達在228事件犧牲就包括陳澄波好多人都在這個事件犧牲所以在嘉義過去曾經有一個爭議就是我們要興建228紀念碑"},{"start":295.279,"end":319.581,"text":"那228紀念碑咧原本他就把它要用在228公園228公園當時有一個銅像叫做無縫銅像那後來有一個鄒族嘉義鄒族原住民鄒族的年輕人把無縫銅像把它拉倒後然後決心說在這個銅像這裡把它改成228紀念碑那後來沒有在沒有在我剛講的地點他就選擇在彌陀路跟忠義路的地點叫做228紀念碑"},{"start":320.902,"end":346.452,"text":"大家都說那裡交通車流量多所以那一個紀念碑放在那個地點又會影響到交通所以後來曾經辦了一個iVoting的一個票選iVoting票選結果你知道哪裡是票選第一名嗎有三個地點叫228紀念碑園子第二個就是228紀念公園第三個就是嘉義火車站這三個地點然後讓大家票選票選出來嘉義火車站第一名大家認為應該是人啊"},{"start":347.372,"end":375.552,"text":"大家認為說228的元素在嘉義火車站那就是所有人用iVoting投出來的票選第一名主要很可惜那個票選是當年這個嘉義市政府肯認的一個票選活動可是後來沒有執行沒有照iVoting執行看起來有壓力那我覺得整個社會一直在改變現在大家對於轉型正義的想像已經不是那麼會有那麼大的壓力那我們應該要勇敢就去執行"},{"start":376.893,"end":390.358,"text":"這個地方過去發生這樣的歷史我們就是要用公共藝術把它呈現出來然後在公共藝術的背後用一些文字上的一個載述可以讓我們後代的子孫都知道過去在我們家裡車頭在我們家裡機場發生的事情這都要讓大家知道好不好好 這個我們一定會做好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1476,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（14時15分）謝謝主席！有請交通部陳部長還有鐵道局陳副局長。"],["主席：陳部長、鐵道局陳副局長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["蔡委員易餘：兩年前頒布的「文化藝術獎助及促進條例」第十五條第一項規定「公有建築物及重大公共工程之興辦機關（構）應辦理公共藝術，營造美學環境，其辦理經費不得少於該建築物及公共工程造價百分之一」，我們嘉義市的鐵路高架化除了在嘉義市之外，很大的量體是在嘉義縣的水上鄉，包括北回車站以及整個車輛基地，很大的量體是在水上鄉，我們知道整個嘉義的鐵路高架化總經費334億，中央負擔了276億，基於我剛剛說的文化促進條例，應該要核定公共藝術經費，最後核定了2.53億，我覺得這2.53億事實上比總預算334億的百分之一要少，這是第一個問題，不過已經核定就核定了。我現在要講的是下一頁顯示的這個公共藝術設置計畫，分別是嘉義車站4,800萬、嘉義車站的風雨走廊4,500萬以及我剛剛講的北回車站1,200萬、水上車輛基地6,400萬，這些公共藝術規劃也都沒問題，現在問題來了，我要講的是嘉義車站跟北回車站，二二八事件，當年我們嘉義市最有名的畫家陳澄波以及像潘木枝這樣的很多社會賢達在嘉義車站這邊開始抗議整個二二八事件，最後演變到了三二事件，也就是在水上機場發生大幅的軍民可以說是武裝對峙，甚至當時在水上機場爆發武裝對峙時，還有所謂空投軍糧給在水上機場的人，所以整個二二八事件中發生最重大衝突的就是從嘉義的火車站延伸到了水上機場，而水上機場就在現在北回車站的正對面，所以以這段故事來說，我們認為在我們規劃嘉義鐵路高架化的公共藝術時，對於不當遺址，我剛講了，嘉義火車站以及水上機場前面這裡都是屬於不當遺址，基於對文化不當遺址的保存，我認為鐵道局有責任在規劃這些公共藝術的時候，必須要把這些不當遺址當年所發生的元素，不管用怎樣的呈現方式，要在這兩個地點把這些元素放到公共藝術裡面，這個有問題嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，您提的這個建議非常好，我覺得這個歷史的記憶在當地還是必須要做一些呈現，畢竟當時在交通運具周邊所發生的歷史的印記一直都還在那個地方，所以我們目前正在研議這件事情，剛好委員現在有這個建議，我們就把它納入，委員的建議我們一定放進來。"],["蔡委員易餘：現在在研議中，所以我現在要趕快把這個訊息給你們，因為接下來立法院的教育文化委員會也正在審理不當遺址的保存條例，所以未來相關的法案是要整併在一起的，那把它整併在一起看的話，整個二二八事件，嘉義是發生最嚴重軍民衝突的一個地點，因此水上的車輛基地或者是嘉義車站都是應該要慎重考量的。"],["陳部長世凱：沒錯。"],["蔡委員易餘：對部長有這樣一個善意的回應，我覺得很感動，所以我要把這整個故事講完，因為好多我們嘉義很讚的社會賢達都在二二八事件中犧牲了，包括陳澄波，好多人都在這個事件中犧牲了，所以在嘉義過去曾經有一個爭議，就是我們要興建二二八紀念碑，原本是要把它放在二二八公園，但當時二二八公園中有個吳鳳的銅像，後來有一個嘉義原住民鄒族的年輕人把吳鳳銅像拉倒，大家就說把銅像這裡改成二二八紀念碑，後來沒有放在我剛剛講的地點，是選擇在彌陀路和忠義路那個地點興建二二八紀念碑，不過大家都說那個地點的車流量多，那個紀念碑放在那個地點會影響到交通，所以後來曾經辦了一個i-Voting票選，結果你知道哪裡是票選第一名嗎？有三個地點，第一個是二二八紀念碑原址，第二個是二二八紀念公園，第三個是嘉義火車站，這三個地點讓大家票選，票選出來是嘉義火車站第一名……"],["陳部長世凱：大家認為應該設在那裡。"],["蔡委員易餘：大家認為二二八的元素在嘉義火車站，那個是嘉義人用i-Voting票選出來的第一名，不過很可惜，那個票選是當年嘉義市政府肯認的票選活動，可是後來沒有執行，沒有照i-Voting執行，看起來有壓力。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：我覺得整個社會一直在改變，現在大家對於轉型正義的想像已經不會有那麼大的壓力……"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：那我們應該要勇敢去執行，這個地方過去發生這樣的歷史，我們就是要用公共藝術把它呈現出來，然後在公共藝術的背後用文字上的載述讓我們的後代子孫都知道過去在嘉義車站、在嘉義機場發生的事情，這都要讓我們的後代知道，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好，這個我們一定會做。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，謝謝。"],["陳部長世凱：一定會做，謝謝委員。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，感謝。"],["主席：謝謝蔡易餘委員。","林月琴、林月琴，林月琴委員不在。","鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐，鄭正鈐委員不在。","現在時間已晚，本席因為配合大家，所以就提出書面質詢，因為配合大家。","另外，特別提醒交通部林司長及黃司長，本席非常重視的就是行人專用時相這個政策，我們當然已經發現問題，這個政策確實也有做，可是我看所有資料，做得比較符合我們政策的只有臺北市，其他五都，看起來，這個政策雖好，但是推行緩慢，所以我要拜託部長督促一下，這和行人安全及人車爭道是有關的，我要拜託部長督促兩位司長，這個要多宣導，讓地方政府配合去做，好的政策，中央地方要一併去推行，不要製造一國兩制，我看所有資料，宣導是不足的，有些人知道人行道怎麼樣走，有些人不知道，這個就是宣導不足，拜託黃司長及林司長，在部長督促的情況之下，這個部分要納入重點，這要拜託部長一下。","今天登記質詢的委員均已發言完畢，作以下決定：一、報告及詢答完畢。二、林德福委員、黃健豪委員、蘇清泉委員、吳宗憲委員、邱鎮軍委員、林國成委員所提書面質詢列入紀錄，並刊登公報。三、委員質詢中要求提供相關書面資料，或未及答復部分，請交通部及相關機關儘速以書面答復。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":462,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-9","speakers":["林國成","洪孟楷","李昆澤","傅崐萁","陳雪生","何欣純","廖先翔","蔡其昌","吳宗憲","陳素月","林俊憲","徐富癸","魯明哲","許智傑","王義川","鍾佳濱","張啓楷","邱若華","邱志偉","黃建賓","王美惠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李柏毅","游顥","陳冠廷","徐欣瑩","蔡易餘","林德福","黃健豪","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":373,"meetingDate":["2025-04-30"],"gazette_id":"1144301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144301_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部民用航空局局長何淑萍、交通部鐵道局局長楊正君、國營臺灣鐵\n路股份有限公司代理董事長伍勝園、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長鄭光遠、中華航空股份有\n限公司董事長高星潢及國家運輸安全調查委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「近期我國航空、鐵路運\n營安全事件之檢討與改善及臺鐵票價調整方案」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144301_00008"}}}