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254.795, \"end\": 255.538, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"剩\", \"start\": 255.538, \"end\": 255.678, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 255.678, \"end\": 255.738, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 255.738, \"end\": 255.759, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}]}, {\"start\": 261.819, \"end\": 286.192, \"text\": \"報告委員 當時是因為他編列的時程比較後面所以其他的預算跟其他的計畫都已經在先行了那前瞻應該這個預算要保留啊那是核定的時間的問題 那但是跟委員報告後來我們還是用公務預算 那這個前瞻的預算為什麼沒有保留呢我們用一般的公務預算一樣可以支應同樣的一個計畫當然用一般的公務預算可以做但是既然公務預算要做 為什麼要匡列前瞻呢\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 261.819, \"end\": 261.959, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 261.959, \"end\": 262.72, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 262.72, \"end\": 262.84, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 262.84, 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\"呢\", \"start\": 286.172, \"end\": 286.192, \"score\": 0.969}]}, {\"start\": 287.032, \"end\": 309.48, \"text\": \"所以你們現在自漏馬腳 當時的269億因為高舉的269億前瞻的大旗所以花蓮台東地區在使用這8000多億前瞻的部分就被相對的排擠了到今天為止真相揭露出來 269億 200多億不見了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 287.032, \"end\": 287.192, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 287.192, \"end\": 287.312, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 287.312, \"end\": 287.832, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 287.832, \"end\": 288.032, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 288.032, \"end\": 288.192, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"漏\", \"start\": 288.192, \"end\": 290.133, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"馬\"}, {\"word\": \"腳\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 290.133, \"end\": 292.794, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 292.794, \"end\": 293.314, 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{\"word\": \"盡\"}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 938.86, \"end\": 939.201, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 939.201, \"end\": 939.401, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 939.401, \"end\": 940.642, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 940.642, \"end\": 940.742, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 940.742, \"end\": 940.882, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 940.882, \"end\": 941.282, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"績\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 941.282, \"end\": 941.363, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 941.363, \"end\": 941.583, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 941.583, \"end\": 941.723, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 941.723, \"end\": 941.863, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 941.863, \"end\": 942.043, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 942.043, \"end\": 942.424, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 942.424, \"end\": 942.924, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 942.924, \"end\": 943.004, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 943.004, \"end\": 943.645, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 943.645, \"end\": 943.785, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 943.785, \"end\": 943.805, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,079 --> 00:00:11,703\n謝謝主席請部長請交通部陳部長\n\n2\n00:00:21,523 --> 00:00:46,296\n部長早我想今天我們的詢答都是關心我們整體交通的發展是因為主席給的時間很短所以我們能夠盡快好不好請問及答好不好好本席提醒一下2020蔡英文總統競選連任的時候推出的交通政策白皮書很清楚接駐西高鐵東快鐵\n\n3\n00:00:48,595 --> 00:01:16,186\n部長知道這個事嗎是我知道要不要履行正在做西高鐵東快鐵東快鐵的時速要提升到多少車速部長了解吧車速這個我沒有把它記起來局長是不是可以回答到多少時速我們是透過提升路線標準來提高平均速度最高速度並沒有提升一樣是130\n\n4\n00:01:17,848 --> 00:01:33,197\n你可以回去翻一下過去幾次2020年本席跟歷任的交通部長的詢答或是歷任的行政院長的詢答你們可以去查清楚交通部所提出來是時速可以到160公里160公里\n\n5\n00:01:36,511 --> 00:02:00,192\n如果你們不知道的話可以回去看一下歷次的詢問報告委員剛剛局長有說就是後來有經過研究確實當時有這麼說但是經過研究之後認為不可行160安全大概無法達到現在的交通技術是在逐步的往上提升當時對人民的承諾是160不能執政越久這個承諾越來越低\n\n6\n00:02:01,653 --> 00:02:29,408\n我想交通的技術只有日新月異沒有在跟人民宣示你們是越做越差我想160是過去很清楚的一個政策說明你們必須要間接旅行的來旅行當時也提到當時速到160的時候環島是6小時全國共同的生活圈\n\n7\n00:02:31,198 --> 00:02:45,661\n所以這是對全國國人來講是非常雀躍的一件事情當時我們對這個政策也非常的支持那部長從2017年這個花東鐵路雙軌電氣化從開始的這個可行研究410億到後來核定456億大概都400多億的範疇\n\n8\n00:02:58,884 --> 00:03:07,287\n裡面啦前瞻預算編列了多少錢269269億那到現在為止前瞻計畫已經積極扶持行快完畢了前瞻計畫裡面總共華東雙軌電信化總共編列了多少錢實際編列了多少錢\n\n9\n00:03:19,482 --> 00:03:23,504\n643643前瞻計畫裡面對花東雙軌電氣化實際實際編列了多少實編63.53億所以當時的8000多億的前瞻計畫民進黨政府宣示啊在花東雙軌的部分269億\n\n10\n00:03:46,789 --> 00:04:13,337\n在整個8000多億的前瞻裡面269億用在花蓮台東所以所以當時這個占比就讓前瞻計畫和其他給花東地區的預算就相對的被排擠結果現在前瞻計畫已經差不多8000多億差不多快要結束了\n\n11\n00:04:14,795 --> 00:04:15,759\n結果269億剩下62億為什麼\n\n12\n00:04:21,819 --> 00:04:46,192\n報告委員當時是因為他編列的時程比較後面所以其他的預算跟其他的計畫都已經在先行了那前瞻應該這個預算要保留啊那是核定的時間的問題那但是跟委員報告後來我們還是用公務預算那這個前瞻的預算為什麼沒有保留呢我們用一般的公務預算一樣可以支應同樣的一個計畫當然用一般的公務預算可以做但是既然公務預算要做為什麼要匡列前瞻呢\n\n13\n00:04:47,032 --> 00:05:09,480\n所以你們現在自漏馬腳當時的269億因為高舉的269億前瞻的大旗所以花蓮台東地區在使用這8000多億前瞻的部分就被相對的排擠了到今天為止真相揭露出來269億200多億不見了\n\n14\n00:05:12,179 --> 00:05:32,031\n那還是回到公務預算那當時前瞻劃給花蓮台東人269億那200億跑哪裡去了報告委員那個部分本來就沒有辦法去保留預算但是我們一樣是用公務預算對花東的居民我們一樣是這麼重視還有最後前瞻的餘額如果要用的話用在花蓮台東\n\n15\n00:05:41,598 --> 00:06:07,243\n不然的話你們整體八千多億的前瞻最後用在花蓮台東是多少你們很難跟人民來交代很難對人民交代如果你沒有確實的來履行這樣的一個責任我們很難對於最後一期的前瞻來表示贊同\n\n16\n00:06:08,271 --> 00:06:36,051\n本席在隆重的讓部長能夠了解報告委員這個我們來爭取對於啊當時提速到160公里最主要的原因最主要的原因就是因為啊花東雙軌電氣化提速到160成為東快鐵就是因為花蓮到吉安有七個危險平交道這七個危險平交道\n\n17\n00:06:38,100 --> 00:07:07,083\n必須納入立體化才能夠把整個曲線的速度加快這是當時不管是部長院長再三再三的聲明也支持而且由交通部概括承受因為它不是城市的縫合不是為了地方的繁榮發展而是要履行環島的六小時共同生活圈\n\n18\n00:07:11,134 --> 00:07:34,220\n一直到去年本席都支持花中雙軌從2017年的410億到2024年因為要把立體化花蓮到吉安的7個危險品交道所以提升到955億交通部我們都支持\n\n19\n00:07:36,001 --> 00:07:50,555\n但是怎麼會在你任內又把它修正成691億然後把花蓮吉安七個危險評價到立體化全數排除部長你要做歷史的罪人嗎\n\n20\n00:07:53,285 --> 00:08:20,935\n報告委員這個審查的過程有它的專業性那我們要考量到一致性跟公平性所以呢雙軌電氣化我們就把它拿來做雙軌電氣化但是如果是高價化的部分我們另外可以做高價化的來做其他的計畫部長一件衣服要做兩次嘛同一件衣服要做兩次你講的是完全不可行的事情嘛表示你完全沒有準備嘛\n\n21\n00:08:22,622 --> 00:08:40,694\n你把政策改成這樣,你做好了準備嗎?同一個路廊,你要做兩次嗎?報告員,如果現在我們把高價化的計畫趕快提出來,我們到時候會一次試做,不會分兩次。好,那你什麼時候要提出來?\n\n22\n00:08:44,258 --> 00:09:07,508\n花蓮縣政府如果趕快提出來我們就趕快把他計畫趕快來審查這怎麼跟花蓮縣政府又扯上關係了交通部已經概括承受啦高加化的事情是地方政府提出當然當時已經是納入了這個是中央改善危險道路而且符合東快鐵整體曲線的速度包括費用都是由中央概括承受\n\n23\n00:09:16,311 --> 00:09:42,999\n有幾位部長宣示過你知道嗎這我不曉得本席請你回去google一下林佳龍部長王國才部長蘇貞昌院長陳建仁院長在院會的詢答都表示過本席再提醒你一下這些幕僚不曉得跟你講什麼你要回去看看過去的部長跟院長的詢答\n\n24\n00:09:45,194 --> 00:10:12,624\n還有對人民的承諾是什麼這不同於宜蘭跟嘉義他們是做地方繁榮的城市縫合而東快點是中央的政策並不是來提升地方的繁榮而是環島共同生活圈是蔡總統民進黨政府的交通白皮書部長了解了嗎\n\n25\n00:10:16,888 --> 00:10:37,337\n這題本席還會再請教你希望幕僚給你正確的訊息也希望你回去看一下那對於啊這個行政院院長所提出啊要把這個票價這個花東居民的票價要優惠的方式\n\n26\n00:10:38,817 --> 00:11:03,928\n本席請問你什麼時候可以提出來報告委員我們希望因為票價的調漲是在6月23我們希望在6月23也可以同步我們希望我們現在朝這個方向你什麼時候要提出來這個政策讓我們能夠了解報告委員花東居民的優惠這是確定的政策一定會做但是確定的方案跟內容目前台鐵正在研議\n\n27\n00:11:05,273 --> 00:11:25,606\n什麼時候可以演繹出來我們希望6月23可以跟票價的整體同步來進行本席講得很清楚吧你不要一直老是講6月23同步6月23之前我們總要討論過吧是啊我會聽你們是關門自己做事情嗎我會請他們提早提出來提早什麼時候可以提出來有這麼困難嗎我們一個月一個月的時間來提出\n\n28\n00:11:34,912 --> 00:12:01,425\n一個月今天是今天30號到5月305月30以前好不好好5月30以前另外啊對於怎麼優惠是一件事情怎麼把觀光客吸引進來是一件事情對於整個你們這次所訂定的平均的票價\n\n29\n00:12:03,752 --> 00:12:29,393\n全國平均是26調漲26%但卻對花蓮台東地區調漲是32本身認為這個要先趨於一致性要先趨於一致性全國應該是一致性報告委員他有遞遠遞減因為那個運具的競爭但是現在平均算出來就是這樣子\n\n30\n00:12:32,585 --> 00:12:58,702\n平均算出來就是這樣子吧所以你們現在的政策本其實希望你現在的政策要進行調整嘛這不是懲罰偏遠地區的人民嗎也不會其實台北到台中的漲幅只有19%台北到台中19%台東19%所以越遠越偏遠其實是越遠到花蓮花蓮比較近\n\n31\n00:12:59,693 --> 00:13:10,966\n花蓮比較近所以到花蓮是多少離台北就32沒有錯32好到花蓮32那請教一下\n\n32\n00:13:12,065 --> 00:13:30,021\n你們為什麼可以把它認為台北到花蓮可以到32%包委員這是以距離來算以距離來算西部從台北可能到彰化你也32%台北到台中的漲幅也是差不多那請問一下台北到台中的交通所有的幹線\n\n33\n00:13:31,562 --> 00:13:59,998\n包括高鐵包括高速公路密密麻麻高速公路快速道路有多少條報告委員所以花東有優惠方案我們正在研擬本席現在告訴你喔在去年10月就已經在本委員會已經做了決議在整體花東道路沒有改善完成之前不可以做不可以做\n\n34\n00:14:02,039 --> 00:14:31,007\n票價的調漲因為那是唯一對外公共運具就只有台鐵這已經做成了決議你們對立法院的決議完全視若無睹嗎所以花東會有優惠方案本席認為你在優惠方案之前應該先要想清楚整體的交通要如何解決如何改善\n\n35\n00:14:32,521 --> 00:15:00,642\n這個才是交通部該做的當務之急啊所以啊本席在這裡啊希望啊部長能夠體恤啊零四零三大地震到現在現在花蓮假日的住房大概四成五成平日大概兩成所有的產業愛好遍野\n\n36\n00:15:02,776 --> 00:15:20,410\n旅輸業一家一家的關門國家整體的觀光去年逆差是900萬人次出入國逆差消費是7000億元我們記錄的是東南亞最後一名部長\n\n37\n00:15:21,744 --> 00:15:43,805\n今年可不可以把這個成績改善報告委員今年一定會比去年更成長我們會努力成長的幅度跟其他國家成長的幅度一樣可以嗎要看比哪個國家比大多數的國家要成長東南亞大多數的國家要成長可以嗎我們盡量來努力你的成績我們很快就看到了好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9079\t11703\t謝謝主席 請部長請交通部陳部長\n21523\t46296\t部長早我想今天我們的詢答都是關心我們整體交通的發展是因為主席給的時間很短所以我們能夠盡快好不好請問及答好不好好本席提醒一下2020蔡英文總統競選連任的時候推出的交通政策白皮書很清楚接駐西高鐵東快鐵\n48595\t76186\t部長知道這個事嗎 是 我知道要不要履行正在做西高鐵東快鐵東快鐵的時速要提升到多少車速 部長了解吧車速這個我沒有把它記起來局長是不是可以回答 到多少時速我們是透過提升路線標準來提高平均速度最高速度並沒有提升 一樣是130\n77848\t93197\t你可以回去翻一下過去幾次2020年本席跟歷任的交通部長的詢答或是歷任的行政院長的詢答你們可以去查清楚交通部所提出來是時速可以到160公里160公里\n96511\t120192\t如果你們不知道的話可以回去看一下歷次的詢問報告委員 剛剛局長有說就是後來有經過研究 確實當時有這麼說但是經過研究之後認為不可行160 安全大概無法達到現在的交通技術是在逐步的往上提升當時對人民的承諾是160不能執政越久 這個承諾越來越低\n121653\t149408\t我想交通的技術只有日新月異沒有在跟人民宣示你們是越做越差我想160是過去很清楚的一個政策說明你們必須要間接旅行的來旅行當時也提到當時速到160的時候環島是6小時全國共同的生活圈\n151198\t165661\t所以這是對全國國人來講是非常雀躍的一件事情當時我們對這個政策也非常的支持那部長從2017年這個花東鐵路雙軌電氣化從開始的這個可行研究410億到後來核定456億大概都400多億的範疇\n178884\t187287\t裡面啦 前瞻預算編列了多少錢269269億那到現在為止 前瞻計畫已經積極扶持 行快完畢了前瞻計畫裡面 總共華東雙軌電信化 總共編列了多少錢實際編列了多少錢\n199482\t203504\t643643 前瞻計畫裡面對花東雙軌電氣化實際實際編列了多少 實編63.53億所以當時的8000多億的前瞻計畫民進黨政府宣示啊在花東雙軌的部分269億\n226789\t253337\t在整個8000多億的前瞻裡面269億用在花蓮台東所以所以當時這個占比就讓前瞻計畫和其他給花東地區的預算就相對的被排擠結果現在前瞻計畫已經差不多8000多億差不多快要結束了\n254795\t255759\t結果269億剩下62億為什麼\n261819\t286192\t報告委員 當時是因為他編列的時程比較後面所以其他的預算跟其他的計畫都已經在先行了那前瞻應該這個預算要保留啊那是核定的時間的問題 那但是跟委員報告後來我們還是用公務預算 那這個前瞻的預算為什麼沒有保留呢我們用一般的公務預算一樣可以支應同樣的一個計畫當然用一般的公務預算可以做但是既然公務預算要做 為什麼要匡列前瞻呢\n287032\t309480\t所以你們現在自漏馬腳 當時的269億因為高舉的269億前瞻的大旗所以花蓮台東地區在使用這8000多億前瞻的部分就被相對的排擠了到今天為止真相揭露出來 269億 200多億不見了\n312179\t332031\t那還是回到公務預算那當時前瞻劃給花蓮台東人269億那200億跑哪裡去了報告委員那個部分本來就沒有辦法去保留預算但是我們一樣是用公務預算對花東的居民我們一樣是這麼重視還有最後前瞻的餘額如果要用的話用在花蓮台東\n341598\t367243\t不然的話你們整體八千多億的前瞻最後用在花蓮台東是多少你們很難跟人民來交代很難對人民交代如果你沒有確實的來履行這樣的一個責任我們很難對於最後一期的前瞻來表示贊同\n368271\t396051\t本席在隆重的讓部長能夠了解報告委員 這個我們來爭取對於啊當時提速到160公里最主要的原因最主要的原因就是因為啊花東雙軌電氣化提速到160成為東快鐵就是因為花蓮到吉安有七個危險平交道這七個危險平交道\n398100\t427083\t必須納入立體化才能夠把整個曲線的速度加快這是當時不管是部長院長再三再三的聲明也支持而且由交通部概括承受因為它不是城市的縫合不是為了地方的繁榮發展而是要履行環島的六小時共同生活圈\n431134\t454220\t一直到去年本席都支持花中雙軌從2017年的410億到2024年因為要把立體化花蓮到吉安的7個危險品交道所以提升到955億交通部我們都支持\n456001\t470555\t但是怎麼會在你任內又把它修正成691億然後把花蓮吉安七個危險評價到立體化全數排除部長你要做歷史的罪人嗎\n473285\t500935\t報告委員 這個審查的過程有它的專業性那我們要考量到一致性跟公平性所以呢 雙軌電氣化我們就把它拿來做雙軌電氣化但是如果是高價化的部分我們另外可以做高價化的來做其他的計畫部長一件衣服要做兩次嘛 同一件衣服要做兩次你講的是完全不可行的事情嘛表示你完全沒有準備嘛\n502622\t520694\t你把政策改成這樣,你做好了準備嗎?同一個路廊,你要做兩次嗎?報告員,如果現在我們把高價化的計畫趕快提出來,我們到時候會一次試做,不會分兩次。好,那你什麼時候要提出來?\n524258\t547508\t花蓮縣政府如果趕快提出來我們就趕快把他計畫趕快來審查這怎麼跟花蓮縣政府又扯上關係了交通部已經概括承受啦高加化的事情是地方政府提出當然當時已經是納入了這個是中央改善危險道路而且符合東快鐵整體曲線的速度包括費用都是由中央概括承受\n556311\t582999\t有幾位部長宣示過你知道嗎這我不曉得本席請你回去google一下林佳龍部長王國才部長蘇貞昌院長陳建仁院長在院會的詢答都表示過本席再提醒你一下這些幕僚不曉得跟你講什麼你要回去看看過去的部長跟院長的詢答\n585194\t612624\t還有對人民的承諾是什麼這不同於宜蘭跟嘉義他們是做地方繁榮的城市縫合而東快點是中央的政策並不是來提升地方的繁榮而是環島共同生活圈是蔡總統民進黨政府的交通白皮書部長了解了嗎\n616888\t637337\t這題本席還會再請教你希望幕僚給你正確的訊息也希望你回去看一下那對於啊這個行政院院長所提出啊要把這個票價這個花東居民的票價要優惠的方式\n638817\t663928\t本席請問你什麼時候可以提出來報告委員我們希望因為票價的調漲是在6月23我們希望在6月23也可以同步我們希望我們現在朝這個方向你什麼時候要提出來這個政策讓我們能夠了解報告委員花東居民的優惠這是確定的政策一定會做但是確定的方案跟內容目前台鐵正在研議\n665273\t685606\t什麼時候可以演繹出來我們希望6月23可以跟票價的整體同步來進行本席講得很清楚吧你不要一直老是講6月23同步6月23之前我們總要討論過吧是啊我會聽你們是關門自己做事情嗎我會請他們提早提出來提早什麼時候可以提出來有這麼困難嗎我們一個月一個月的時間來提出\n694912\t721425\t一個月今天是今天30號到5月305月30以前好不好好 5月30以前另外啊對於怎麼優惠是一件事情怎麼把觀光客吸引進來是一件事情對於整個你們這次所訂定的平均的票價\n723752\t749393\t全國平均是26調漲26%但卻對花蓮台東地區調漲是32本身認為這個要先趨於一致性要先趨於一致性全國應該是一致性報告委員他有遞遠遞減因為那個運具的競爭但是現在平均算出來就是這樣子\n752585\t778702\t平均算出來就是這樣子吧所以你們現在的政策本其實希望你現在的政策要進行調整嘛這不是懲罰偏遠地區的人民嗎也不會 其實台北到台中的漲幅只有19%台北到台中19%台東19%所以越遠 越偏遠其實是越遠到花蓮花蓮比較近\n779693\t790966\t花蓮比較近所以到花蓮是多少離台北就32沒有錯32好到花蓮32那請教一下\n792065\t810021\t你們為什麼可以把它認為台北到花蓮可以到32%包委員這是以距離來算以距離來算西部從台北可能到彰化你也32%台北到台中的漲幅也是差不多那請問一下台北到台中的交通所有的幹線\n811562\t839998\t包括高鐵包括高速公路密密麻麻高速公路快速道路有多少條報告委員所以花東有優惠方案我們正在研擬本席現在告訴你喔在去年10月就已經在本委員會已經做了決議在整體花東道路沒有改善完成之前不可以做不可以做\n842039\t871007\t票價的調漲因為那是唯一對外公共運具就只有台鐵這已經做成了決議你們對立法院的決議完全視若無睹嗎所以花東會有優惠方案本席認為你在優惠方案之前應該先要想清楚整體的交通要如何解決如何改善\n872521\t900642\t這個才是交通部該做的當務之急啊所以啊本席在這裡啊希望啊部長能夠體恤啊零四零三大地震到現在現在花蓮假日的住房大概四成五成平日大概兩成所有的產業愛好遍野\n902776\t920410\t旅輸業一家一家的關門國家整體的觀光去年逆差是900萬人次出入國逆差消費是7000億元我們記錄的是東南亞最後一名部長\n921744\t943805\t今年可不可以把這個成績改善報告委員今年一定會比去年更成長我們會努力成長的幅度跟其他國家成長的幅度一樣可以嗎要看比哪個國家比大多數的國家要成長東南亞大多數的國家要成長可以嗎我們盡量來努力你的成績我們很快就看到了好不好好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 請部長請交通部陳部長\n部長早我想今天我們的詢答都是關心我們整體交通的發展是因為主席給的時間很短所以我們能夠盡快好不好請問及答好不好好本席提醒一下2020蔡英文總統競選連任的時候推出的交通政策白皮書很清楚接駐西高鐵東快鐵\n部長知道這個事嗎 是 我知道要不要履行正在做西高鐵東快鐵東快鐵的時速要提升到多少車速 部長了解吧車速這個我沒有把它記起來局長是不是可以回答 到多少時速我們是透過提升路線標準來提高平均速度最高速度並沒有提升 一樣是130\n你可以回去翻一下過去幾次2020年本席跟歷任的交通部長的詢答或是歷任的行政院長的詢答你們可以去查清楚交通部所提出來是時速可以到160公里160公里\n如果你們不知道的話可以回去看一下歷次的詢問報告委員 剛剛局長有說就是後來有經過研究 確實當時有這麼說但是經過研究之後認為不可行160 安全大概無法達到現在的交通技術是在逐步的往上提升當時對人民的承諾是160不能執政越久 這個承諾越來越低\n我想交通的技術只有日新月異沒有在跟人民宣示你們是越做越差我想160是過去很清楚的一個政策說明你們必須要間接旅行的來旅行當時也提到當時速到160的時候環島是6小時全國共同的生活圈\n所以這是對全國國人來講是非常雀躍的一件事情當時我們對這個政策也非常的支持那部長從2017年這個花東鐵路雙軌電氣化從開始的這個可行研究410億到後來核定456億大概都400多億的範疇\n裡面啦 前瞻預算編列了多少錢269269億那到現在為止 前瞻計畫已經積極扶持 行快完畢了前瞻計畫裡面 總共華東雙軌電信化 總共編列了多少錢實際編列了多少錢\n643643 前瞻計畫裡面對花東雙軌電氣化實際實際編列了多少 實編63.53億所以當時的8000多億的前瞻計畫民進黨政府宣示啊在花東雙軌的部分269億\n在整個8000多億的前瞻裡面269億用在花蓮台東所以所以當時這個占比就讓前瞻計畫和其他給花東地區的預算就相對的被排擠結果現在前瞻計畫已經差不多8000多億差不多快要結束了\n結果269億剩下62億為什麼\n報告委員 當時是因為他編列的時程比較後面所以其他的預算跟其他的計畫都已經在先行了那前瞻應該這個預算要保留啊那是核定的時間的問題 那但是跟委員報告後來我們還是用公務預算 那這個前瞻的預算為什麼沒有保留呢我們用一般的公務預算一樣可以支應同樣的一個計畫當然用一般的公務預算可以做但是既然公務預算要做 為什麼要匡列前瞻呢\n所以你們現在自漏馬腳 當時的269億因為高舉的269億前瞻的大旗所以花蓮台東地區在使用這8000多億前瞻的部分就被相對的排擠了到今天為止真相揭露出來 269億 200多億不見了\n那還是回到公務預算那當時前瞻劃給花蓮台東人269億那200億跑哪裡去了報告委員那個部分本來就沒有辦法去保留預算但是我們一樣是用公務預算對花東的居民我們一樣是這麼重視還有最後前瞻的餘額如果要用的話用在花蓮台東\n不然的話你們整體八千多億的前瞻最後用在花蓮台東是多少你們很難跟人民來交代很難對人民交代如果你沒有確實的來履行這樣的一個責任我們很難對於最後一期的前瞻來表示贊同\n本席在隆重的讓部長能夠了解報告委員 這個我們來爭取對於啊當時提速到160公里最主要的原因最主要的原因就是因為啊花東雙軌電氣化提速到160成為東快鐵就是因為花蓮到吉安有七個危險平交道這七個危險平交道\n必須納入立體化才能夠把整個曲線的速度加快這是當時不管是部長院長再三再三的聲明也支持而且由交通部概括承受因為它不是城市的縫合不是為了地方的繁榮發展而是要履行環島的六小時共同生活圈\n一直到去年本席都支持花中雙軌從2017年的410億到2024年因為要把立體化花蓮到吉安的7個危險品交道所以提升到955億交通部我們都支持\n但是怎麼會在你任內又把它修正成691億然後把花蓮吉安七個危險評價到立體化全數排除部長你要做歷史的罪人嗎\n報告委員 這個審查的過程有它的專業性那我們要考量到一致性跟公平性所以呢 雙軌電氣化我們就把它拿來做雙軌電氣化但是如果是高價化的部分我們另外可以做高價化的來做其他的計畫部長一件衣服要做兩次嘛 同一件衣服要做兩次你講的是完全不可行的事情嘛表示你完全沒有準備嘛\n你把政策改成這樣,你做好了準備嗎?同一個路廊,你要做兩次嗎?報告員,如果現在我們把高價化的計畫趕快提出來,我們到時候會一次試做,不會分兩次。好,那你什麼時候要提出來?\n花蓮縣政府如果趕快提出來我們就趕快把他計畫趕快來審查這怎麼跟花蓮縣政府又扯上關係了交通部已經概括承受啦高加化的事情是地方政府提出當然當時已經是納入了這個是中央改善危險道路而且符合東快鐵整體曲線的速度包括費用都是由中央概括承受\n有幾位部長宣示過你知道嗎這我不曉得本席請你回去google一下林佳龍部長王國才部長蘇貞昌院長陳建仁院長在院會的詢答都表示過本席再提醒你一下這些幕僚不曉得跟你講什麼你要回去看看過去的部長跟院長的詢答\n還有對人民的承諾是什麼這不同於宜蘭跟嘉義他們是做地方繁榮的城市縫合而東快點是中央的政策並不是來提升地方的繁榮而是環島共同生活圈是蔡總統民進黨政府的交通白皮書部長了解了嗎\n這題本席還會再請教你希望幕僚給你正確的訊息也希望你回去看一下那對於啊這個行政院院長所提出啊要把這個票價這個花東居民的票價要優惠的方式\n本席請問你什麼時候可以提出來報告委員我們希望因為票價的調漲是在6月23我們希望在6月23也可以同步我們希望我們現在朝這個方向你什麼時候要提出來這個政策讓我們能夠了解報告委員花東居民的優惠這是確定的政策一定會做但是確定的方案跟內容目前台鐵正在研議\n什麼時候可以演繹出來我們希望6月23可以跟票價的整體同步來進行本席講得很清楚吧你不要一直老是講6月23同步6月23之前我們總要討論過吧是啊我會聽你們是關門自己做事情嗎我會請他們提早提出來提早什麼時候可以提出來有這麼困難嗎我們一個月一個月的時間來提出\n一個月今天是今天30號到5月305月30以前好不好好 5月30以前另外啊對於怎麼優惠是一件事情怎麼把觀光客吸引進來是一件事情對於整個你們這次所訂定的平均的票價\n全國平均是26調漲26%但卻對花蓮台東地區調漲是32本身認為這個要先趨於一致性要先趨於一致性全國應該是一致性報告委員他有遞遠遞減因為那個運具的競爭但是現在平均算出來就是這樣子\n平均算出來就是這樣子吧所以你們現在的政策本其實希望你現在的政策要進行調整嘛這不是懲罰偏遠地區的人民嗎也不會 其實台北到台中的漲幅只有19%台北到台中19%台東19%所以越遠 越偏遠其實是越遠到花蓮花蓮比較近\n花蓮比較近所以到花蓮是多少離台北就32沒有錯32好到花蓮32那請教一下\n你們為什麼可以把它認為台北到花蓮可以到32%包委員這是以距離來算以距離來算西部從台北可能到彰化你也32%台北到台中的漲幅也是差不多那請問一下台北到台中的交通所有的幹線\n包括高鐵包括高速公路密密麻麻高速公路快速道路有多少條報告委員所以花東有優惠方案我們正在研擬本席現在告訴你喔在去年10月就已經在本委員會已經做了決議在整體花東道路沒有改善完成之前不可以做不可以做\n票價的調漲因為那是唯一對外公共運具就只有台鐵這已經做成了決議你們對立法院的決議完全視若無睹嗎所以花東會有優惠方案本席認為你在優惠方案之前應該先要想清楚整體的交通要如何解決如何改善\n這個才是交通部該做的當務之急啊所以啊本席在這裡啊希望啊部長能夠體恤啊零四零三大地震到現在現在花蓮假日的住房大概四成五成平日大概兩成所有的產業愛好遍野\n旅輸業一家一家的關門國家整體的觀光去年逆差是900萬人次出入國逆差消費是7000億元我們記錄的是東南亞最後一名部長\n今年可不可以把這個成績改善報告委員今年一定會比去年更成長我們會努力成長的幅度跟其他國家成長的幅度一樣可以嗎要看比哪個國家比大多數的國家要成長東南亞大多數的國家要成長可以嗎我們盡量來努力你的成績我們很快就看到了好不好好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.079 --> 00:11.703\n謝謝主席請部長請交通部陳部長\n\n00:21.523 --> 00:46.296\n部長早我想今天我們的詢答都是關心我們整體交通的發展是因為主席給的時間很短所以我們能夠盡快好不好請問及答好不好好本席提醒一下2020蔡英文總統競選連任的時候推出的交通政策白皮書很清楚接駐西高鐵東快鐵\n\n00:48.595 --> 01:16.186\n部長知道這個事嗎是我知道要不要履行正在做西高鐵東快鐵東快鐵的時速要提升到多少車速部長了解吧車速這個我沒有把它記起來局長是不是可以回答到多少時速我們是透過提升路線標準來提高平均速度最高速度並沒有提升一樣是130\n\n01:17.848 --> 01:33.197\n你可以回去翻一下過去幾次2020年本席跟歷任的交通部長的詢答或是歷任的行政院長的詢答你們可以去查清楚交通部所提出來是時速可以到160公里160公里\n\n01:36.511 --> 02:00.192\n如果你們不知道的話可以回去看一下歷次的詢問報告委員剛剛局長有說就是後來有經過研究確實當時有這麼說但是經過研究之後認為不可行160安全大概無法達到現在的交通技術是在逐步的往上提升當時對人民的承諾是160不能執政越久這個承諾越來越低\n\n02:01.653 --> 02:29.408\n我想交通的技術只有日新月異沒有在跟人民宣示你們是越做越差我想160是過去很清楚的一個政策說明你們必須要間接旅行的來旅行當時也提到當時速到160的時候環島是6小時全國共同的生活圈\n\n02:31.198 --> 02:45.661\n所以這是對全國國人來講是非常雀躍的一件事情當時我們對這個政策也非常的支持那部長從2017年這個花東鐵路雙軌電氣化從開始的這個可行研究410億到後來核定456億大概都400多億的範疇\n\n02:58.884 --> 03:07.287\n裡面啦前瞻預算編列了多少錢269269億那到現在為止前瞻計畫已經積極扶持行快完畢了前瞻計畫裡面總共華東雙軌電信化總共編列了多少錢實際編列了多少錢\n\n03:19.482 --> 03:23.504\n643643前瞻計畫裡面對花東雙軌電氣化實際實際編列了多少實編63.53億所以當時的8000多億的前瞻計畫民進黨政府宣示啊在花東雙軌的部分269億\n\n03:46.789 --> 04:13.337\n在整個8000多億的前瞻裡面269億用在花蓮台東所以所以當時這個占比就讓前瞻計畫和其他給花東地區的預算就相對的被排擠結果現在前瞻計畫已經差不多8000多億差不多快要結束了\n\n04:14.795 --> 04:15.759\n結果269億剩下62億為什麼\n\n04:21.819 --> 04:46.192\n報告委員當時是因為他編列的時程比較後面所以其他的預算跟其他的計畫都已經在先行了那前瞻應該這個預算要保留啊那是核定的時間的問題那但是跟委員報告後來我們還是用公務預算那這個前瞻的預算為什麼沒有保留呢我們用一般的公務預算一樣可以支應同樣的一個計畫當然用一般的公務預算可以做但是既然公務預算要做為什麼要匡列前瞻呢\n\n04:47.032 --> 05:09.480\n所以你們現在自漏馬腳當時的269億因為高舉的269億前瞻的大旗所以花蓮台東地區在使用這8000多億前瞻的部分就被相對的排擠了到今天為止真相揭露出來269億200多億不見了\n\n05:12.179 --> 05:32.031\n那還是回到公務預算那當時前瞻劃給花蓮台東人269億那200億跑哪裡去了報告委員那個部分本來就沒有辦法去保留預算但是我們一樣是用公務預算對花東的居民我們一樣是這麼重視還有最後前瞻的餘額如果要用的話用在花蓮台東\n\n05:41.598 --> 06:07.243\n不然的話你們整體八千多億的前瞻最後用在花蓮台東是多少你們很難跟人民來交代很難對人民交代如果你沒有確實的來履行這樣的一個責任我們很難對於最後一期的前瞻來表示贊同\n\n06:08.271 --> 06:36.051\n本席在隆重的讓部長能夠了解報告委員這個我們來爭取對於啊當時提速到160公里最主要的原因最主要的原因就是因為啊花東雙軌電氣化提速到160成為東快鐵就是因為花蓮到吉安有七個危險平交道這七個危險平交道\n\n06:38.100 --> 07:07.083\n必須納入立體化才能夠把整個曲線的速度加快這是當時不管是部長院長再三再三的聲明也支持而且由交通部概括承受因為它不是城市的縫合不是為了地方的繁榮發展而是要履行環島的六小時共同生活圈\n\n07:11.134 --> 07:34.220\n一直到去年本席都支持花中雙軌從2017年的410億到2024年因為要把立體化花蓮到吉安的7個危險品交道所以提升到955億交通部我們都支持\n\n07:36.001 --> 07:50.555\n但是怎麼會在你任內又把它修正成691億然後把花蓮吉安七個危險評價到立體化全數排除部長你要做歷史的罪人嗎\n\n07:53.285 --> 08:20.935\n報告委員這個審查的過程有它的專業性那我們要考量到一致性跟公平性所以呢雙軌電氣化我們就把它拿來做雙軌電氣化但是如果是高價化的部分我們另外可以做高價化的來做其他的計畫部長一件衣服要做兩次嘛同一件衣服要做兩次你講的是完全不可行的事情嘛表示你完全沒有準備嘛\n\n08:22.622 --> 08:40.694\n你把政策改成這樣,你做好了準備嗎?同一個路廊,你要做兩次嗎?報告員,如果現在我們把高價化的計畫趕快提出來,我們到時候會一次試做,不會分兩次。好,那你什麼時候要提出來?\n\n08:44.258 --> 09:07.508\n花蓮縣政府如果趕快提出來我們就趕快把他計畫趕快來審查這怎麼跟花蓮縣政府又扯上關係了交通部已經概括承受啦高加化的事情是地方政府提出當然當時已經是納入了這個是中央改善危險道路而且符合東快鐵整體曲線的速度包括費用都是由中央概括承受\n\n09:16.311 --> 09:42.999\n有幾位部長宣示過你知道嗎這我不曉得本席請你回去google一下林佳龍部長王國才部長蘇貞昌院長陳建仁院長在院會的詢答都表示過本席再提醒你一下這些幕僚不曉得跟你講什麼你要回去看看過去的部長跟院長的詢答\n\n09:45.194 --> 10:12.624\n還有對人民的承諾是什麼這不同於宜蘭跟嘉義他們是做地方繁榮的城市縫合而東快點是中央的政策並不是來提升地方的繁榮而是環島共同生活圈是蔡總統民進黨政府的交通白皮書部長了解了嗎\n\n10:16.888 --> 10:37.337\n這題本席還會再請教你希望幕僚給你正確的訊息也希望你回去看一下那對於啊這個行政院院長所提出啊要把這個票價這個花東居民的票價要優惠的方式\n\n10:38.817 --> 11:03.928\n本席請問你什麼時候可以提出來報告委員我們希望因為票價的調漲是在6月23我們希望在6月23也可以同步我們希望我們現在朝這個方向你什麼時候要提出來這個政策讓我們能夠了解報告委員花東居民的優惠這是確定的政策一定會做但是確定的方案跟內容目前台鐵正在研議\n\n11:05.273 --> 11:25.606\n什麼時候可以演繹出來我們希望6月23可以跟票價的整體同步來進行本席講得很清楚吧你不要一直老是講6月23同步6月23之前我們總要討論過吧是啊我會聽你們是關門自己做事情嗎我會請他們提早提出來提早什麼時候可以提出來有這麼困難嗎我們一個月一個月的時間來提出\n\n11:34.912 --> 12:01.425\n一個月今天是今天30號到5月305月30以前好不好好5月30以前另外啊對於怎麼優惠是一件事情怎麼把觀光客吸引進來是一件事情對於整個你們這次所訂定的平均的票價\n\n12:03.752 --> 12:29.393\n全國平均是26調漲26%但卻對花蓮台東地區調漲是32本身認為這個要先趨於一致性要先趨於一致性全國應該是一致性報告委員他有遞遠遞減因為那個運具的競爭但是現在平均算出來就是這樣子\n\n12:32.585 --> 12:58.702\n平均算出來就是這樣子吧所以你們現在的政策本其實希望你現在的政策要進行調整嘛這不是懲罰偏遠地區的人民嗎也不會其實台北到台中的漲幅只有19%台北到台中19%台東19%所以越遠越偏遠其實是越遠到花蓮花蓮比較近\n\n12:59.693 --> 13:10.966\n花蓮比較近所以到花蓮是多少離台北就32沒有錯32好到花蓮32那請教一下\n\n13:12.065 --> 13:30.021\n你們為什麼可以把它認為台北到花蓮可以到32%包委員這是以距離來算以距離來算西部從台北可能到彰化你也32%台北到台中的漲幅也是差不多那請問一下台北到台中的交通所有的幹線\n\n13:31.562 --> 13:59.998\n包括高鐵包括高速公路密密麻麻高速公路快速道路有多少條報告委員所以花東有優惠方案我們正在研擬本席現在告訴你喔在去年10月就已經在本委員會已經做了決議在整體花東道路沒有改善完成之前不可以做不可以做\n\n14:02.039 --> 14:31.007\n票價的調漲因為那是唯一對外公共運具就只有台鐵這已經做成了決議你們對立法院的決議完全視若無睹嗎所以花東會有優惠方案本席認為你在優惠方案之前應該先要想清楚整體的交通要如何解決如何改善\n\n14:32.521 --> 15:00.642\n這個才是交通部該做的當務之急啊所以啊本席在這裡啊希望啊部長能夠體恤啊零四零三大地震到現在現在花蓮假日的住房大概四成五成平日大概兩成所有的產業愛好遍野\n\n15:02.776 --> 15:20.410\n旅輸業一家一家的關門國家整體的觀光去年逆差是900萬人次出入國逆差消費是7000億元我們記錄的是東南亞最後一名部長\n\n15:21.744 --> 15:43.805\n今年可不可以把這個成績改善報告委員今年一定會比去年更成長我們會努力成長的幅度跟其他國家成長的幅度一樣可以嗎要看比哪個國家比大多數的國家要成長東南亞大多數的國家要成長可以嗎我們盡量來努力你的成績我們很快就看到了好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.079,"end":11.703,"text":"謝謝主席 請部長請交通部陳部長"},{"start":21.523,"end":46.296,"text":"部長早我想今天我們的詢答都是關心我們整體交通的發展是因為主席給的時間很短所以我們能夠盡快好不好請問及答好不好好本席提醒一下2020蔡英文總統競選連任的時候推出的交通政策白皮書很清楚接駐西高鐵東快鐵"},{"start":48.595,"end":76.186,"text":"部長知道這個事嗎 是 我知道要不要履行正在做西高鐵東快鐵東快鐵的時速要提升到多少車速 部長了解吧車速這個我沒有把它記起來局長是不是可以回答 到多少時速我們是透過提升路線標準來提高平均速度最高速度並沒有提升 一樣是130"},{"start":77.848,"end":93.197,"text":"你可以回去翻一下過去幾次2020年本席跟歷任的交通部長的詢答或是歷任的行政院長的詢答你們可以去查清楚交通部所提出來是時速可以到160公里160公里"},{"start":96.511,"end":120.192,"text":"如果你們不知道的話可以回去看一下歷次的詢問報告委員 剛剛局長有說就是後來有經過研究 確實當時有這麼說但是經過研究之後認為不可行160 安全大概無法達到現在的交通技術是在逐步的往上提升當時對人民的承諾是160不能執政越久 這個承諾越來越低"},{"start":121.653,"end":149.408,"text":"我想交通的技術只有日新月異沒有在跟人民宣示你們是越做越差我想160是過去很清楚的一個政策說明你們必須要間接旅行的來旅行當時也提到當時速到160的時候環島是6小時全國共同的生活圈"},{"start":151.198,"end":165.661,"text":"所以這是對全國國人來講是非常雀躍的一件事情當時我們對這個政策也非常的支持那部長從2017年這個花東鐵路雙軌電氣化從開始的這個可行研究410億到後來核定456億大概都400多億的範疇"},{"start":178.884,"end":187.287,"text":"裡面啦 前瞻預算編列了多少錢269269億那到現在為止 前瞻計畫已經積極扶持 行快完畢了前瞻計畫裡面 總共華東雙軌電信化 總共編列了多少錢實際編列了多少錢"},{"start":199.482,"end":203.504,"text":"643643 前瞻計畫裡面對花東雙軌電氣化實際實際編列了多少 實編63.53億所以當時的8000多億的前瞻計畫民進黨政府宣示啊在花東雙軌的部分269億"},{"start":226.789,"end":253.337,"text":"在整個8000多億的前瞻裡面269億用在花蓮台東所以所以當時這個占比就讓前瞻計畫和其他給花東地區的預算就相對的被排擠結果現在前瞻計畫已經差不多8000多億差不多快要結束了"},{"start":254.795,"end":255.759,"text":"結果269億剩下62億為什麼"},{"start":261.819,"end":286.192,"text":"報告委員 當時是因為他編列的時程比較後面所以其他的預算跟其他的計畫都已經在先行了那前瞻應該這個預算要保留啊那是核定的時間的問題 那但是跟委員報告後來我們還是用公務預算 那這個前瞻的預算為什麼沒有保留呢我們用一般的公務預算一樣可以支應同樣的一個計畫當然用一般的公務預算可以做但是既然公務預算要做 為什麼要匡列前瞻呢"},{"start":287.032,"end":309.48,"text":"所以你們現在自漏馬腳 當時的269億因為高舉的269億前瞻的大旗所以花蓮台東地區在使用這8000多億前瞻的部分就被相對的排擠了到今天為止真相揭露出來 269億 200多億不見了"},{"start":312.179,"end":332.031,"text":"那還是回到公務預算那當時前瞻劃給花蓮台東人269億那200億跑哪裡去了報告委員那個部分本來就沒有辦法去保留預算但是我們一樣是用公務預算對花東的居民我們一樣是這麼重視還有最後前瞻的餘額如果要用的話用在花蓮台東"},{"start":341.598,"end":367.243,"text":"不然的話你們整體八千多億的前瞻最後用在花蓮台東是多少你們很難跟人民來交代很難對人民交代如果你沒有確實的來履行這樣的一個責任我們很難對於最後一期的前瞻來表示贊同"},{"start":368.271,"end":396.051,"text":"本席在隆重的讓部長能夠了解報告委員 這個我們來爭取對於啊當時提速到160公里最主要的原因最主要的原因就是因為啊花東雙軌電氣化提速到160成為東快鐵就是因為花蓮到吉安有七個危險平交道這七個危險平交道"},{"start":398.1,"end":427.083,"text":"必須納入立體化才能夠把整個曲線的速度加快這是當時不管是部長院長再三再三的聲明也支持而且由交通部概括承受因為它不是城市的縫合不是為了地方的繁榮發展而是要履行環島的六小時共同生活圈"},{"start":431.134,"end":454.22,"text":"一直到去年本席都支持花中雙軌從2017年的410億到2024年因為要把立體化花蓮到吉安的7個危險品交道所以提升到955億交通部我們都支持"},{"start":456.001,"end":470.555,"text":"但是怎麼會在你任內又把它修正成691億然後把花蓮吉安七個危險評價到立體化全數排除部長你要做歷史的罪人嗎"},{"start":473.285,"end":500.935,"text":"報告委員 這個審查的過程有它的專業性那我們要考量到一致性跟公平性所以呢 雙軌電氣化我們就把它拿來做雙軌電氣化但是如果是高價化的部分我們另外可以做高價化的來做其他的計畫部長一件衣服要做兩次嘛 同一件衣服要做兩次你講的是完全不可行的事情嘛表示你完全沒有準備嘛"},{"start":502.622,"end":520.694,"text":"你把政策改成這樣,你做好了準備嗎?同一個路廊,你要做兩次嗎?報告員,如果現在我們把高價化的計畫趕快提出來,我們到時候會一次試做,不會分兩次。好,那你什麼時候要提出來?"},{"start":524.258,"end":547.508,"text":"花蓮縣政府如果趕快提出來我們就趕快把他計畫趕快來審查這怎麼跟花蓮縣政府又扯上關係了交通部已經概括承受啦高加化的事情是地方政府提出當然當時已經是納入了這個是中央改善危險道路而且符合東快鐵整體曲線的速度包括費用都是由中央概括承受"},{"start":556.311,"end":582.999,"text":"有幾位部長宣示過你知道嗎這我不曉得本席請你回去google一下林佳龍部長王國才部長蘇貞昌院長陳建仁院長在院會的詢答都表示過本席再提醒你一下這些幕僚不曉得跟你講什麼你要回去看看過去的部長跟院長的詢答"},{"start":585.194,"end":612.624,"text":"還有對人民的承諾是什麼這不同於宜蘭跟嘉義他們是做地方繁榮的城市縫合而東快點是中央的政策並不是來提升地方的繁榮而是環島共同生活圈是蔡總統民進黨政府的交通白皮書部長了解了嗎"},{"start":616.888,"end":637.337,"text":"這題本席還會再請教你希望幕僚給你正確的訊息也希望你回去看一下那對於啊這個行政院院長所提出啊要把這個票價這個花東居民的票價要優惠的方式"},{"start":638.817,"end":663.928,"text":"本席請問你什麼時候可以提出來報告委員我們希望因為票價的調漲是在6月23我們希望在6月23也可以同步我們希望我們現在朝這個方向你什麼時候要提出來這個政策讓我們能夠了解報告委員花東居民的優惠這是確定的政策一定會做但是確定的方案跟內容目前台鐵正在研議"},{"start":665.273,"end":685.606,"text":"什麼時候可以演繹出來我們希望6月23可以跟票價的整體同步來進行本席講得很清楚吧你不要一直老是講6月23同步6月23之前我們總要討論過吧是啊我會聽你們是關門自己做事情嗎我會請他們提早提出來提早什麼時候可以提出來有這麼困難嗎我們一個月一個月的時間來提出"},{"start":694.912,"end":721.425,"text":"一個月今天是今天30號到5月305月30以前好不好好 5月30以前另外啊對於怎麼優惠是一件事情怎麼把觀光客吸引進來是一件事情對於整個你們這次所訂定的平均的票價"},{"start":723.752,"end":749.393,"text":"全國平均是26調漲26%但卻對花蓮台東地區調漲是32本身認為這個要先趨於一致性要先趨於一致性全國應該是一致性報告委員他有遞遠遞減因為那個運具的競爭但是現在平均算出來就是這樣子"},{"start":752.585,"end":778.702,"text":"平均算出來就是這樣子吧所以你們現在的政策本其實希望你現在的政策要進行調整嘛這不是懲罰偏遠地區的人民嗎也不會 其實台北到台中的漲幅只有19%台北到台中19%台東19%所以越遠 越偏遠其實是越遠到花蓮花蓮比較近"},{"start":779.693,"end":790.966,"text":"花蓮比較近所以到花蓮是多少離台北就32沒有錯32好到花蓮32那請教一下"},{"start":792.065,"end":810.021,"text":"你們為什麼可以把它認為台北到花蓮可以到32%包委員這是以距離來算以距離來算西部從台北可能到彰化你也32%台北到台中的漲幅也是差不多那請問一下台北到台中的交通所有的幹線"},{"start":811.562,"end":839.998,"text":"包括高鐵包括高速公路密密麻麻高速公路快速道路有多少條報告委員所以花東有優惠方案我們正在研擬本席現在告訴你喔在去年10月就已經在本委員會已經做了決議在整體花東道路沒有改善完成之前不可以做不可以做"},{"start":842.039,"end":871.007,"text":"票價的調漲因為那是唯一對外公共運具就只有台鐵這已經做成了決議你們對立法院的決議完全視若無睹嗎所以花東會有優惠方案本席認為你在優惠方案之前應該先要想清楚整體的交通要如何解決如何改善"},{"start":872.521,"end":900.642,"text":"這個才是交通部該做的當務之急啊所以啊本席在這裡啊希望啊部長能夠體恤啊零四零三大地震到現在現在花蓮假日的住房大概四成五成平日大概兩成所有的產業愛好遍野"},{"start":902.776,"end":920.41,"text":"旅輸業一家一家的關門國家整體的觀光去年逆差是900萬人次出入國逆差消費是7000億元我們記錄的是東南亞最後一名部長"},{"start":921.744,"end":943.805,"text":"今年可不可以把這個成績改善報告委員今年一定會比去年更成長我們會努力成長的幅度跟其他國家成長的幅度一樣可以嗎要看比哪個國家比大多數的國家要成長東南亞大多數的國家要成長可以嗎我們盡量來努力你的成績我們很快就看到了好不好好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":254,"blocks":[["傅委員崐萁：（9時59分）謝謝主席。請部長。"],["主席：請交通部陳部長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["傅委員崐萁：部長早。今天我們的詢答都是關心整體交通發展。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["傅委員崐萁：因為主席給的時間很短，所以我們就儘快，即問即答，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["傅委員崐萁：本席提醒一下，2020年蔡英文總統競選連任時推出的交通政策白皮書，很清楚地揭櫫「西高鐵、東快鐵」，部長知道這個事情嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：是，我知道。"],["傅委員崐萁：好。要不要履行？"],["陳部長世凱：正在做。"],["傅委員崐萁：好，正在做。「西高鐵、東快鐵」，東快鐵的車速要提升到多少，部長瞭解嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：車速我沒有把它記起來。局長是不是可以回答？"],["傅委員崐萁：到多少？"],["主席：請楊局長。"],["楊局長正君：報告委員，我們是透過提升路線標準來提高平均速度，最高速度並沒有提升，一樣是130。"],["傅委員崐萁：你可以回去翻一下過去幾次，包括2020年本席跟歷任交通部長的詢答，或是跟歷任行政院長的詢答，你可以去查清楚。交通部所提出來的是時速可以到160公里，如果你們不知道的話，可以回去看一下歷次的詢答。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，剛剛局長有說，後來有經過研究。確實當時有這麼說，但是經過研究之後認為不可行，160公里，安全大概無法達到。"],["傅委員崐萁：現在的交通技術是在逐步往上提升，當時對人民的承諾是160公里，不能執政越久，這個承諾卻越來越低。交通技術只有日新月異，沒有在跟人民宣示你們是越做越差的！160公里是過去很清楚的政策說明，你們必須劍及履及地來履行。","當時也提到，當時速到160公里的時候，環島是6小時，全國是共同的生活圈，所以這對全體國人來講是非常令人雀躍的一件事情，當時我們對這項政策也非常支持。","部長，花東鐵路雙軌電氣化從2017年開始的可行性研究410億，到後來核定456億，大概都是四百多億的範疇，其中前瞻預算編列了多少錢？"],["陳部長世凱：269。"],["傅委員崐萁：269億？"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["傅委員崐萁：到現在為止，前瞻計畫幾乎快要執行完畢了，在前瞻計畫裡面，花東鐵路雙軌電氣化總共編了多少錢？實際編列多少錢？"],["陳部長世凱：63。"],["傅委員崐萁：前瞻計畫裡面對花東鐵路雙軌電氣化實際編列了多少錢？"],["陳部長世凱：實編63.53億。"],["傅委員崐萁：當時八千多億的前瞻計畫，民進黨政府宣示花東鐵路雙軌電氣化的部分是269億，在整個八千多億的前瞻預算裡面，有269億用在花蓮、臺東，所以當時這個占比就讓前瞻計畫其他給花東地區的預算相對地被排擠了，現在前瞻計畫八千多億已經差不多快要結束了，結果269億剩下62億！為什麼？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，當時是因為它編列的時程比較後面，其他的預算跟其他的計畫都已經先行了，所以這個預算當然比較少。"],["傅委員崐萁：前瞻計畫的這個預算應該要保留啊！"],["陳部長世凱：這是核定時間的問題。但是跟委員報告，後來我們還是用公務預算……"],["傅委員崐萁：那這個前瞻的預算為什麼沒有保留呢？"],["陳部長世凱：我們用一般的公務預算一樣可以支應同樣的一個計畫。"],["傅委員崐萁：用一般的公務預算當然可以做，但既然公務預算要做，為什麼要匡列前瞻呢？所以你們現在自動把它……"],["陳部長世凱：兩邊加起來會更多，不是嗎？"],["傅委員崐萁：當時因為高舉269億前瞻的大旗，所以花蓮、臺東地區在使用前瞻這八千多億的部分就被相對地排擠了，今天真相被揭露出來，269億裡面有兩百多億不見了，還是回到公務預算，當時前瞻劃給花蓮、臺東人的269億裡面的200億跑到哪裡去了？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，那個部分本來就沒有辦法保留預算，但我們一樣是用公務預算，對花東的居民，我們一樣是這麼重視，該有的建設一樣都會做。"],["傅委員崐萁：本席現在提醒你，還有最後前瞻的餘額，如果要用的話，要用在花蓮、臺東，不然的話，你們整體八千多億的前瞻最後用在花蓮、臺東是多少？你們很難跟人民交代！"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，您的提醒我們來爭取，好不好？如果還有的話，我們來爭取。"],["傅委員崐萁：很難對人民交代！如果你沒有確實地來履行這樣的責任，我們很難對最後一期的前瞻預算表示贊同。本席現在要鄭重地讓部長瞭解！"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這個我們來爭取。"],["傅委員崐萁：當時說要提速到160公里，最主要的原因就是要花東鐵路透過雙軌電氣化成為東快鐵，因為花蓮到吉安有7個危險平交道，這7個危險平交道必須立體化，才能夠把整個曲線的速度加快，這是當時不管部長或院長都再三聲明和支持的，而且由交通部概括承受，因為它不是城市的縫合，不是為了地方的繁榮發展，而是要履行6小時內環島的生活圈。部長，一直到去年，本席都支持花東鐵路雙軌化從2017年的410億，到2024年因為要把花蓮到吉安的7個危險平交道立體化，所以交通部提升到955億，我們都支持，但是怎麼會在你任內又把它修正成690億，然後把花蓮到吉安7個危險平交道的立體化全數排除？部長，你要做歷史的罪人嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這個審查的過程有它的專業性，我們也要考量一致性跟公平性，所以雙軌電氣化的部分我們就把它拿來做雙軌電氣化，但如果是高架化的部分，我們另外可以來做其他高架化的計畫。"],["傅委員崐萁：部長，你同一件衣服要做兩次嗎？你講的是完全不可行的事情，表示你完全沒有準備嘛！你把政策改成這樣，有做好準備嗎？同一個路廊，你要做兩次嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，如果現在趕快把高架化的計畫提出來，我們到時候會一次施作，不會分兩次。"],["傅委員崐萁：那你什麼時候要提出來？"],["陳部長世凱：花蓮縣政府如果趕快把計畫提出來，我們就趕快進行審查。"],["傅委員崐萁：這怎麼又跟花蓮縣政府扯上關係了？交通部已經概括承受了啊！"],["陳部長世凱：高架化的事情是地方政府提出，當然，做是交通部要做。"],["傅委員崐萁：當時已經納入了，這是中央改善危險道路，而且符合東快鐵整體曲線的速度，包括費用都是由中央概括承受。有幾位部長宣誓過，你知道嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：這我不曉得。"],["傅委員崐萁：本席請你回去google一下。"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["傅委員崐萁：包括林佳龍部長、王國材部長、蘇貞昌院長、陳建仁院長，他們在院會答詢都表示過！本席再提醒你一下，這些幕僚不曉得在跟你講什麼，你要回去看看過去的部長跟院長的答詢還有對人民的承諾是什麼！這不同於宜蘭跟嘉義，他們是做地方繁榮的城市縫合，而東快鐵是中央的政策，並不是來提升地方的繁榮，而是環島共同生活圈，是蔡總統、民進黨政府的交通白皮書。部長了解了嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：了解。"],["傅委員崐萁：好，這一題本席還會再請教你。"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["傅委員崐萁：希望幕僚給你正確的訊息，也希望你回去看一下。對於行政院院長所提出，要讓花東居民的票價有優惠的方式，本席請問你什麼時候可以提出來？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，因為票價的調漲是在6月23日，我們希望在6月23日也可以同步，我們希望如此，我們現在朝這個方向……"],["傅委員崐萁：你什麼時候要提出這個政策嘛？要讓我們能夠了解嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，花東居民的優惠這是確定的政策，一定會做，但是確定的方案跟內容，目前臺鐵正在研議。"],["傅委員崐萁：什麼時候可以研議出來？"],["陳部長世凱：我們希望6月23日可以跟票價整體同步來進行。"],["傅委員崐萁：本席講得很清楚嘛！你不要老是講6月23日同步，6月23日之前我們總要討論過吧？"],["陳部長世凱：是啊，我會請他們……"],["傅委員崐萁：你們是關門自己做事情嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：我會請他們提早提出來。"],["傅委員崐萁：提早什麼時候可以提出來？有這麼困難嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：我們一個月的時間來提出。"],["傅委員崐萁：一個月？今天是30號，要到5月30日，5月30日以前好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好，5月30日以前。"],["傅委員崐萁：另外，怎麼優惠是一件事情，怎麼把觀光客吸引進來是一件事情。對於整個你們這次所訂定的平均票價，全國平均是調漲26%，但卻對花蓮、臺東地區調漲32%，本席認為這個要先趨於一致性，全國應該是一致性。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，它有遞遠遞減，因為運具的競爭關係……"],["傅委員崐萁：但是現在平均算出來就是這樣子嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["傅委員崐萁：平均算出來就是這樣子嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：不會，報告委員，所以臺北到臺東相對漲的比較少……"],["傅委員崐萁：所以你們現在的政策，本席希望你現在的政策要進行調整嘛！這不是懲罰偏遠地區的人民嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：也不會，其實臺北到臺東的漲幅只有19%。"],["傅委員崐萁：臺北到臺中19%？"],["陳部長世凱：臺東。"],["傅委員崐萁：臺東19%？"],["陳部長世凱：對，所以越偏遠其實是……"],["傅委員崐萁：那到花蓮……"],["陳部長世凱：花蓮比較近。"],["傅委員崐萁：花蓮比較近？所以到花蓮是多少？"],["陳部長世凱：離臺北32%，沒有錯。"],["傅委員崐萁：好，到花蓮32%，請教一下，你們為什麼認為臺北到花蓮可以到32%？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這是以距離來算。"],["傅委員崐萁：以距離來算？好，西部……"],["陳部長世凱：如果是臺北到臺中……"],["傅委員崐萁：從臺北可能到彰化，你也32%？"],["陳部長世凱：如果是臺北到臺中的漲幅也是差不多，到彰化也差不多。"],["傅委員崐萁：那請問一下臺北到臺中的交通，所有的幹線包括高鐵、包括高速公路，密密麻麻的高速公路、快速道路有多少條？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，所以花東有優惠方案，我們正在研擬。"],["傅委員崐萁：本席現在告訴你，去年10月在本委員會裡面就已經做了決議，在整體花東道路沒有完成改善之前，不可以做票價的調漲，因為那是唯一對外的公共運具，就只有臺鐵，這是已經做成的決議，你們對立法院的決議完全視若無睹。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，所以花東會有優惠方案。"],["傅委員崐萁：本席認為你在優惠方案之前，應該要先想清楚整體的交通要如何解決、如何改善，這個才是交通部當務之急應該做的。所以本席在這裡希望部長能夠體恤，0403大地震到現在，現在花蓮假日的住房率大概四成、五成，平日大概兩成，所有的產業哀鴻遍野，旅宿業一家一家的關門，國家整體的觀光去年出入境人次逆差是900萬人次，逆差消費是7,000億元，我們是東南亞最後一名，部長，今年可不可以改善這個成績？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，今年一定會比去年更成長，我們會努力……"],["傅委員崐萁：成長的幅度跟其他國家一樣，可以嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：要看跟哪個國家比。"],["傅委員崐萁：比大多數東南亞的國家更成長，可以嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：我們儘量來努力。"],["傅委員崐萁：你的成績單我們很快就看到了，好不好？謝謝。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝傅崐萁委員。","現在請陳雪生委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":462,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-9","speakers":["林國成","洪孟楷","李昆澤","傅崐萁","陳雪生","何欣純","廖先翔","蔡其昌","吳宗憲","陳素月","林俊憲","徐富癸","魯明哲","許智傑","王義川","鍾佳濱","張啓楷","邱若華","邱志偉","黃建賓","王美惠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李柏毅","游顥","陳冠廷","徐欣瑩","蔡易餘","林德福","黃健豪","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":373,"meetingDate":["2025-04-30"],"gazette_id":"1144301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144301_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部民用航空局局長何淑萍、交通部鐵道局局長楊正君、國營臺灣鐵\n路股份有限公司代理董事長伍勝園、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長鄭光遠、中華航空股份有\n限公司董事長高星潢及國家運輸安全調查委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「近期我國航空、鐵路運\n營安全事件之檢討與改善及臺鐵票價調整方案」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144301_00008"}}}