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\"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 359.144, \"end\": 359.164, \"score\": 0.004}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 364.002, \"end\": 364.023, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 364.023, \"end\": 364.043, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,209 --> 00:00:15,805\n法務部我們的黃次長好黃次長是委員好好副主任你好針對今天國安法的修訂其實我們今天早上看到很多委員都有提出他們各種的看法\n\n2\n00:00:23,014 --> 00:00:33,381\n其實你說在我們的國家安全尤其滲透在最近和過去實在是非常嚴重這也是需要大家來做對國家的安全一定要更加緊密大家來討論\n\n3\n00:00:40,505 --> 00:00:44,209\n所以本席站在說,今個不管在野兩黨或民眾黨大家提出的意見其實都很多,都可以讓我們陸委會、法務部、相關單位,包括國安會共同來制定一套\n\n4\n00:01:00,927 --> 00:01:16,671\n比較符合我們台灣,因為台灣大家都知道有中華的問題存在所以為了我們國家的安全,也是需要大家共同來提出因為我看我們港鐵案起訴的人數159個為了國家的安全,但是有很多是沒有起訴\n\n5\n00:01:23,812 --> 00:01:46,714\n所以說一定要制定一個希望說我們不管陸委會法務部是不是說要擬定一個政策一個時間就我們的行政院辦趕快來其他的我們今天的共識大家集中趕快聯繫一套符合我們台灣的需要好不好是不是請我們法務部\n\n6\n00:01:48,061 --> 00:02:10,660\n是謝謝委員的這個支持那我想剛才我們也有提到就是賴總統他宣布之後事實上行政院已經啟動整體各機關全面來檢視了這個動作那今天各位委員所提示的相關的這個議題我們也都會帶回去在這個研議的過程中盡速來連理盡速來提出以上各位委員報告\n\n7\n00:02:11,564 --> 00:02:18,109\n好,一定要從重從遠,才能好止滲透,因為我們台灣畢竟是一個島型的國家,我們都不容許滲透的問題\n\n8\n00:02:27,358 --> 00:02:41,939\n所以這個部分,也要拜託再來呢,我們可以說,這次,我看說,有很多,我們當年提出的版本所以,有很多我們的國安法,第二條,第四條,第三條\n\n9\n00:02:43,090 --> 00:02:51,099\n所以制定出來都值得我們大家共同來討論現在我請問我們的陸委會我們的副主委未來針對滲透這個部分我們陸委會要怎樣來有效的克制\n\n10\n00:03:02,389 --> 00:03:17,509\n目前我們陸委會主要還是依照兩岸人民關係條例但是兩岸人民關係條例它主要是一些行政法行政法的部分那個嚇阻力量不高\n\n11\n00:03:19,625 --> 00:03:45,556\n那反滲透法它其實有一些規定但是它也相對的比較範圍比較窄反滲透法主要是規定說是在選舉期間選舉期間然後中共的資金然後影響候選人但是它規範的時間就是時間上很短然後規範的活動就是很窄範圍很窄\n\n12\n00:03:47,077 --> 00:04:15,144\n所以我們我剛剛就一再講就是說國家安全的這個相關的事項非常多那中共的滲透行為你說得出100項他一定開始想出101項所以這個部分我覺得就是說從陸委會的立場我們贊成或支持所有任何能夠加強國家安全的措施那各位委員所提出來的法條我們都很支持謝謝好\n\n13\n00:04:16,860 --> 00:04:34,982\n因為北溪這邊手上有一個一份資料,我們的海型同仁在海型服役期間因為在網路接觸到中國主動聯繫,聯繫他們提供的叫做泰達幣,就是虛擬貨幣\n\n14\n00:04:37,128 --> 00:04:49,669\n所以說包括海型這個部分,我們覺得這個滲透尤其是公務部門以及我們的海型跟金裝,我相信\n\n15\n00:04:52,437 --> 00:05:06,362\n這絕對不是一個少數啦,既然把這個弄出來,應該還有很多類似的案件所以這是我們未來要怎樣去防範,不然這真的未來會越來越嚴重\n\n16\n00:05:10,008 --> 00:05:30,562\n委員講得非常正確就是說現在很多都是用利誘而且是小利我們覺得是有點痛心因為其實所牽涉的利益都不是很大但是就是會有人願意上鉤被吸收然後現在支付利益的方式\n\n17\n00:05:31,803 --> 00:05:59,164\n又越來越多然後現在所謂虛擬貨幣等等那對查緝的就是說對查緝的工作造成很大困難這樣那所以我們還是希望希望說各位委員能夠支持那未來的這個國家安全法或相關法律都能夠能夠加強謝謝本席一定支持啦我們就是要從重重演現在去制定好不好好謝謝\n\n18\n00:06:04,002 --> 00:06:04,043\n謝謝大家\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n209\t15805\t法務部我們的黃次長好 黃次長是 委員好好 副主任 你好針對今天國安法的修訂其實我們今天早上看到很多委員都有提出他們各種的看法\n23014\t33381\t其實你說在我們的國家安全尤其滲透在最近和過去實在是非常嚴重這也是需要大家來做對國家的安全一定要更加緊密大家來討論\n40505\t44209\t所以本席站在說,今個不管在野兩黨或民眾黨大家提出的意見其實都很多,都可以讓我們陸委會、法務部、相關單位,包括國安會共同來制定一套\n60927\t76671\t比較符合我們台灣,因為台灣大家都知道有中華的問題存在所以為了我們國家的安全,也是需要大家共同來提出因為我看我們港鐵案起訴的人數159個為了國家的安全,但是有很多是沒有起訴\n83812\t106714\t所以說一定要制定一個希望說我們不管陸委會法務部是不是說要擬定一個政策一個時間就我們的行政院辦趕快來其他的我們今天的共識大家集中趕快聯繫一套符合我們台灣的需要好不好是不是請我們法務部\n108061\t130660\t是 謝謝委員的這個支持那我想剛才我們也有提到就是賴總統他宣布之後事實上行政院已經啟動整體各機關全面來檢視了這個動作那今天各位委員所提示的相關的這個議題我們也都會帶回去在這個研議的過程中盡速來連理 盡速來提出以上各位委員報告\n131564\t138109\t好,一定要從重從遠,才能好止滲透,因為我們台灣畢竟是一個島型的國家,我們都不容許滲透的問題\n147358\t161939\t所以這個部分,也要拜託再來呢,我們可以說,這次,我看說,有很多,我們當年提出的版本所以,有很多我們的國安法,第二條,第四條,第三條\n163090\t171099\t所以制定出來都值得我們大家共同來討論現在我請問我們的陸委會我們的副主委未來針對滲透這個部分我們陸委會要怎樣來有效的克制\n182389\t197509\t目前我們陸委會主要還是依照兩岸人民關係條例但是兩岸人民關係條例它主要是一些行政法行政法的部分那個嚇阻力量不高\n199625\t225556\t那反滲透法它其實有一些規定但是它也相對的比較範圍比較窄反滲透法主要是規定說是在選舉期間選舉期間然後中共的資金然後影響候選人但是它規範的時間就是時間上很短然後規範的活動就是很窄 範圍很窄\n227077\t255144\t所以我們 我剛剛就一再講就是說國家安全的這個相關的事項非常多那中共的滲透行為你說得出100項他一定開始想出101項所以這個部分我覺得就是說從陸委會的立場我們贊成或支持所有 任何能夠加強國家安全的措施那各位委員所提出來的法條我們都很支持謝謝好\n256860\t274982\t因為北溪這邊手上有一個一份資料,我們的海型同仁在海型服役期間因為在網路接觸到中國主動聯繫,聯繫他們提供的叫做泰達幣,就是虛擬貨幣\n277128\t289669\t所以說包括海型這個部分,我們覺得這個滲透尤其是公務部門以及我們的海型跟金裝,我相信\n292437\t306362\t這絕對不是一個少數啦,既然把這個弄出來,應該還有很多類似的案件所以這是我們未來要怎樣去防範,不然這真的未來會越來越嚴重\n310008\t330562\t委員講得非常正確就是說現在很多都是用利誘而且是小利我們覺得是有點痛心因為其實所牽涉的利益都不是很大但是就是會有人願意上鉤被吸收然後現在支付利益的方式\n331803\t359164\t又越來越多然後現在所謂虛擬貨幣等等那對查緝的就是說對查緝的工作造成很大困難這樣那所以我們還是希望希望說各位委員能夠支持那未來的這個國家安全法或相關法律都能夠能夠加強謝謝本席一定支持啦我們就是要從重重演現在去制定好不好好謝謝\n364002\t364043\t謝謝大家\n","txt":"法務部我們的黃次長好 黃次長是 委員好好 副主任 你好針對今天國安法的修訂其實我們今天早上看到很多委員都有提出他們各種的看法\n其實你說在我們的國家安全尤其滲透在最近和過去實在是非常嚴重這也是需要大家來做對國家的安全一定要更加緊密大家來討論\n所以本席站在說,今個不管在野兩黨或民眾黨大家提出的意見其實都很多,都可以讓我們陸委會、法務部、相關單位,包括國安會共同來制定一套\n比較符合我們台灣,因為台灣大家都知道有中華的問題存在所以為了我們國家的安全,也是需要大家共同來提出因為我看我們港鐵案起訴的人數159個為了國家的安全,但是有很多是沒有起訴\n所以說一定要制定一個希望說我們不管陸委會法務部是不是說要擬定一個政策一個時間就我們的行政院辦趕快來其他的我們今天的共識大家集中趕快聯繫一套符合我們台灣的需要好不好是不是請我們法務部\n是 謝謝委員的這個支持那我想剛才我們也有提到就是賴總統他宣布之後事實上行政院已經啟動整體各機關全面來檢視了這個動作那今天各位委員所提示的相關的這個議題我們也都會帶回去在這個研議的過程中盡速來連理 盡速來提出以上各位委員報告\n好,一定要從重從遠,才能好止滲透,因為我們台灣畢竟是一個島型的國家,我們都不容許滲透的問題\n所以這個部分,也要拜託再來呢,我們可以說,這次,我看說,有很多,我們當年提出的版本所以,有很多我們的國安法,第二條,第四條,第三條\n所以制定出來都值得我們大家共同來討論現在我請問我們的陸委會我們的副主委未來針對滲透這個部分我們陸委會要怎樣來有效的克制\n目前我們陸委會主要還是依照兩岸人民關係條例但是兩岸人民關係條例它主要是一些行政法行政法的部分那個嚇阻力量不高\n那反滲透法它其實有一些規定但是它也相對的比較範圍比較窄反滲透法主要是規定說是在選舉期間選舉期間然後中共的資金然後影響候選人但是它規範的時間就是時間上很短然後規範的活動就是很窄 範圍很窄\n所以我們 我剛剛就一再講就是說國家安全的這個相關的事項非常多那中共的滲透行為你說得出100項他一定開始想出101項所以這個部分我覺得就是說從陸委會的立場我們贊成或支持所有 任何能夠加強國家安全的措施那各位委員所提出來的法條我們都很支持謝謝好\n因為北溪這邊手上有一個一份資料,我們的海型同仁在海型服役期間因為在網路接觸到中國主動聯繫,聯繫他們提供的叫做泰達幣,就是虛擬貨幣\n所以說包括海型這個部分,我們覺得這個滲透尤其是公務部門以及我們的海型跟金裝,我相信\n這絕對不是一個少數啦,既然把這個弄出來,應該還有很多類似的案件所以這是我們未來要怎樣去防範,不然這真的未來會越來越嚴重\n委員講得非常正確就是說現在很多都是用利誘而且是小利我們覺得是有點痛心因為其實所牽涉的利益都不是很大但是就是會有人願意上鉤被吸收然後現在支付利益的方式\n又越來越多然後現在所謂虛擬貨幣等等那對查緝的就是說對查緝的工作造成很大困難這樣那所以我們還是希望希望說各位委員能夠支持那未來的這個國家安全法或相關法律都能夠能夠加強謝謝本席一定支持啦我們就是要從重重演現在去制定好不好好謝謝\n謝謝大家\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.209 --> 00:15.805\n法務部我們的黃次長好黃次長是委員好好副主任你好針對今天國安法的修訂其實我們今天早上看到很多委員都有提出他們各種的看法\n\n00:23.014 --> 00:33.381\n其實你說在我們的國家安全尤其滲透在最近和過去實在是非常嚴重這也是需要大家來做對國家的安全一定要更加緊密大家來討論\n\n00:40.505 --> 00:44.209\n所以本席站在說,今個不管在野兩黨或民眾黨大家提出的意見其實都很多,都可以讓我們陸委會、法務部、相關單位,包括國安會共同來制定一套\n\n01:00.927 --> 01:16.671\n比較符合我們台灣,因為台灣大家都知道有中華的問題存在所以為了我們國家的安全,也是需要大家共同來提出因為我看我們港鐵案起訴的人數159個為了國家的安全,但是有很多是沒有起訴\n\n01:23.812 --> 01:46.714\n所以說一定要制定一個希望說我們不管陸委會法務部是不是說要擬定一個政策一個時間就我們的行政院辦趕快來其他的我們今天的共識大家集中趕快聯繫一套符合我們台灣的需要好不好是不是請我們法務部\n\n01:48.061 --> 02:10.660\n是謝謝委員的這個支持那我想剛才我們也有提到就是賴總統他宣布之後事實上行政院已經啟動整體各機關全面來檢視了這個動作那今天各位委員所提示的相關的這個議題我們也都會帶回去在這個研議的過程中盡速來連理盡速來提出以上各位委員報告\n\n02:11.564 --> 02:18.109\n好,一定要從重從遠,才能好止滲透,因為我們台灣畢竟是一個島型的國家,我們都不容許滲透的問題\n\n02:27.358 --> 02:41.939\n所以這個部分,也要拜託再來呢,我們可以說,這次,我看說,有很多,我們當年提出的版本所以,有很多我們的國安法,第二條,第四條,第三條\n\n02:43.090 --> 02:51.099\n所以制定出來都值得我們大家共同來討論現在我請問我們的陸委會我們的副主委未來針對滲透這個部分我們陸委會要怎樣來有效的克制\n\n03:02.389 --> 03:17.509\n目前我們陸委會主要還是依照兩岸人民關係條例但是兩岸人民關係條例它主要是一些行政法行政法的部分那個嚇阻力量不高\n\n03:19.625 --> 03:45.556\n那反滲透法它其實有一些規定但是它也相對的比較範圍比較窄反滲透法主要是規定說是在選舉期間選舉期間然後中共的資金然後影響候選人但是它規範的時間就是時間上很短然後規範的活動就是很窄範圍很窄\n\n03:47.077 --> 04:15.144\n所以我們我剛剛就一再講就是說國家安全的這個相關的事項非常多那中共的滲透行為你說得出100項他一定開始想出101項所以這個部分我覺得就是說從陸委會的立場我們贊成或支持所有任何能夠加強國家安全的措施那各位委員所提出來的法條我們都很支持謝謝好\n\n04:16.860 --> 04:34.982\n因為北溪這邊手上有一個一份資料,我們的海型同仁在海型服役期間因為在網路接觸到中國主動聯繫,聯繫他們提供的叫做泰達幣,就是虛擬貨幣\n\n04:37.128 --> 04:49.669\n所以說包括海型這個部分,我們覺得這個滲透尤其是公務部門以及我們的海型跟金裝,我相信\n\n04:52.437 --> 05:06.362\n這絕對不是一個少數啦,既然把這個弄出來,應該還有很多類似的案件所以這是我們未來要怎樣去防範,不然這真的未來會越來越嚴重\n\n05:10.008 --> 05:30.562\n委員講得非常正確就是說現在很多都是用利誘而且是小利我們覺得是有點痛心因為其實所牽涉的利益都不是很大但是就是會有人願意上鉤被吸收然後現在支付利益的方式\n\n05:31.803 --> 05:59.164\n又越來越多然後現在所謂虛擬貨幣等等那對查緝的就是說對查緝的工作造成很大困難這樣那所以我們還是希望希望說各位委員能夠支持那未來的這個國家安全法或相關法律都能夠能夠加強謝謝本席一定支持啦我們就是要從重重演現在去制定好不好好謝謝\n\n06:04.002 --> 06:04.043\n謝謝大家\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.209,"end":15.805,"text":"法務部我們的黃次長好 黃次長是 委員好好 副主任 你好針對今天國安法的修訂其實我們今天早上看到很多委員都有提出他們各種的看法"},{"start":23.014,"end":33.381,"text":"其實你說在我們的國家安全尤其滲透在最近和過去實在是非常嚴重這也是需要大家來做對國家的安全一定要更加緊密大家來討論"},{"start":40.505,"end":44.209,"text":"所以本席站在說,今個不管在野兩黨或民眾黨大家提出的意見其實都很多,都可以讓我們陸委會、法務部、相關單位,包括國安會共同來制定一套"},{"start":60.927,"end":76.671,"text":"比較符合我們台灣,因為台灣大家都知道有中華的問題存在所以為了我們國家的安全,也是需要大家共同來提出因為我看我們港鐵案起訴的人數159個為了國家的安全,但是有很多是沒有起訴"},{"start":83.812,"end":106.714,"text":"所以說一定要制定一個希望說我們不管陸委會法務部是不是說要擬定一個政策一個時間就我們的行政院辦趕快來其他的我們今天的共識大家集中趕快聯繫一套符合我們台灣的需要好不好是不是請我們法務部"},{"start":108.061,"end":130.66,"text":"是 謝謝委員的這個支持那我想剛才我們也有提到就是賴總統他宣布之後事實上行政院已經啟動整體各機關全面來檢視了這個動作那今天各位委員所提示的相關的這個議題我們也都會帶回去在這個研議的過程中盡速來連理 盡速來提出以上各位委員報告"},{"start":131.564,"end":138.109,"text":"好,一定要從重從遠,才能好止滲透,因為我們台灣畢竟是一個島型的國家,我們都不容許滲透的問題"},{"start":147.358,"end":161.939,"text":"所以這個部分,也要拜託再來呢,我們可以說,這次,我看說,有很多,我們當年提出的版本所以,有很多我們的國安法,第二條,第四條,第三條"},{"start":163.09,"end":171.099,"text":"所以制定出來都值得我們大家共同來討論現在我請問我們的陸委會我們的副主委未來針對滲透這個部分我們陸委會要怎樣來有效的克制"},{"start":182.389,"end":197.509,"text":"目前我們陸委會主要還是依照兩岸人民關係條例但是兩岸人民關係條例它主要是一些行政法行政法的部分那個嚇阻力量不高"},{"start":199.625,"end":225.556,"text":"那反滲透法它其實有一些規定但是它也相對的比較範圍比較窄反滲透法主要是規定說是在選舉期間選舉期間然後中共的資金然後影響候選人但是它規範的時間就是時間上很短然後規範的活動就是很窄 範圍很窄"},{"start":227.077,"end":255.144,"text":"所以我們 我剛剛就一再講就是說國家安全的這個相關的事項非常多那中共的滲透行為你說得出100項他一定開始想出101項所以這個部分我覺得就是說從陸委會的立場我們贊成或支持所有 任何能夠加強國家安全的措施那各位委員所提出來的法條我們都很支持謝謝好"},{"start":256.86,"end":274.982,"text":"因為北溪這邊手上有一個一份資料,我們的海型同仁在海型服役期間因為在網路接觸到中國主動聯繫,聯繫他們提供的叫做泰達幣,就是虛擬貨幣"},{"start":277.128,"end":289.669,"text":"所以說包括海型這個部分,我們覺得這個滲透尤其是公務部門以及我們的海型跟金裝,我相信"},{"start":292.437,"end":306.362,"text":"這絕對不是一個少數啦,既然把這個弄出來,應該還有很多類似的案件所以這是我們未來要怎樣去防範,不然這真的未來會越來越嚴重"},{"start":310.008,"end":330.562,"text":"委員講得非常正確就是說現在很多都是用利誘而且是小利我們覺得是有點痛心因為其實所牽涉的利益都不是很大但是就是會有人願意上鉤被吸收然後現在支付利益的方式"},{"start":331.803,"end":359.164,"text":"又越來越多然後現在所謂虛擬貨幣等等那對查緝的就是說對查緝的工作造成很大困難這樣那所以我們還是希望希望說各位委員能夠支持那未來的這個國家安全法或相關法律都能夠能夠加強謝謝本席一定支持啦我們就是要從重重演現在去制定好不好好謝謝"},{"start":364.002,"end":364.043,"text":"謝謝大家"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":633,"blocks":[["吳委員琪銘：（10時30分）召委、我們與會同仁好，請陸委會副主委。"],["主席：好，請副主委。"],["吳委員琪銘：法務部的黃次長。"],["主席：好，請黃次長。"],["梁副主任委員文傑：委員好。"],["吳委員琪銘：副主委你好。針對今天國安法的修法，今天早上我看到很多委員都有提出各種看法，其實在我們的國家安全尤其在滲透部分，在最近跟過去實在非常嚴重，這也是需要大家來對國家的安全，一定要更加緊密的討論，所以本席還是站在……不管在野兩黨大家提出的意見，其實有很多都可以讓陸委會、法務部及相關單位，包括國安會，大家共同來制定一套比較符合臺灣需要的法令，因為大家都知道臺灣有兩岸的問題存在，所以為了我們國家的安全也是需要大家共同提出。","我看共諜案起訴的人數有159人，已經威脅到國家的安全，但還有很多是沒有起訴，所以一定要修這法條，希望陸委會或法務部要擬定政策，在時間內把行政院版趕快訂定出來；針對其他的部分，我們今天的共識，大家帶回去趕快研議一套符合我們臺灣的需要，好不好？請法務部說明。"],["黃次長世杰：是，謝謝委員的支持。剛才我們也有提到賴總統宣布之後，事實上，行政院已經啟動整體各機關全面來檢視的這個動作，今天各位委員所提示相關的議題，我們也都會帶回去，在這個研議的過程中，儘速研擬並提出，以上跟委員報告。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，一定要從重從嚴，才能夠嚇阻這個滲透，因為我們臺灣畢竟是一個島型的國家，不容許有滲透的問題，所以這個部分也要拜託；再來，這次我看有很多我們的同仁提出的版本，像是國安法第二條、第三條及第四條的修正，都值得我們大家共同來討論；現在請教陸委會副主委，未來針對滲透的部分，陸委會要怎樣的有效的嚇阻？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：目前陸委會主要還是依照兩岸人民關係條例辦理，但是兩岸人民關係條例主要是一些行政罰，行政罰的嚇阻力量不高，而反滲透法其實有一些規定，但是它相對的範圍比較窄，反滲透法主要是規定在選舉期間，中共的資金去影響候選人，但是所規範的時間很短，規範的活動範圍很窄，所以我剛剛一再講，國家安全的相關事項非常多，中共的滲透行為你說得出100項，他一定可以想出101項，所以這個部分，從陸委會的立場，我們贊成或支持任何能夠加強國家安全的措施，各位委員所提出來的法條，我們都很支持，謝謝。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，本席手上有一份資料，就是我們海巡同仁於服役期間在網路接觸到中國籍人士主動連繫，他們提供的是泰達幣，就是虛擬貨幣，所以我們覺得滲透，尤其在公務部門，包括海巡、軍中，我相信絕對不是少數，既然這個揭露出來，應該還有很多類似的案件，所以我們未來要怎樣去防範，不然未來這真的會越來越嚴重？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：委員講得非常正確！現在很多都是用利誘，而且是小利，我們覺得是有點痛心，因為其實所牽涉到的利益都不是很大，但是就是會有人願意上鉤、被吸收，然後現在支付利益的方式又越來越多，有所謂虛擬貨幣等等，對查緝的工作造成很大的困難，所以我們還是希望各位委員能夠支持，未來國家安全法或相關法律都能夠加強，謝謝。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，本席一定支持，我們就是要從重從嚴去制定，好不好？好，謝謝。"],["梁副主任委員文傑：謝謝。"],["黃次長世杰：謝謝。"],["主席：請許宇甄委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-15","speakers":["張宏陸","黃捷","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","蘇巧慧","李柏毅","高金素梅","王美惠","黃國昌","吳琪銘","許宇甄","鄭天財Sra 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