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我們會再提供數據因為我看了一下法務部跟司法院你們對於第二款的版本草案司法院認為說含義不明確法務部認為範圍不夠具體那所以說對於這一次委員所提出來的這個草案第二條第二款你們是不是不支持啊\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 137.691, \"end\": 137.771, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 137.771, \"end\": 137.871, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 137.871, \"end\": 137.951, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 137.951, \"end\": 138.051, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 138.051, \"end\": 138.752, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 138.752, \"end\": 139.192, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"錯\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 139.192, \"end\": 139.392, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 139.392, \"end\": 140.794, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 140.794, \"end\": 141.154, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 141.154, \"end\": 141.314, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 141.314, \"end\": 141.374, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": 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\"個\"}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"圍\"}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 196.367, \"end\": 196.527, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 196.527, \"end\": 196.687, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 196.687, \"end\": 196.827, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 196.827, \"end\": 196.928, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 196.928, \"end\": 197.048, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 197.048, \"end\": 197.068, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"確\"}]}, {\"start\": 197.808, \"end\": 212.984, \"text\": \"那如果這個因為這樣然後卡的罪又這麼重我覺得這不是一個立法委員一個禁止的立法委員該做了而且這個會變成到時候執政黨可以拿這個來作為政治攻擊我在這邊先聲明我非常支持國家安全\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 197.808, \"end\": 197.928, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 197.928, \"end\": 198.008, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 198.008, \"end\": 198.589, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 198.589, \"end\": 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\"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,089 --> 00:00:25,496\n好請法務部跟司法院委員好好各位早安因為我看了那個民進黨委員的版本那我就那個第二條的部分我想請教一下因為我有看過司法院跟法務部你們對於這個草案的論述\n\n2\n00:00:28,141 --> 00:00:45,472\n尤其是齁我覺得最近發生很多共諜案那昨天還前天林永昌不是說國民黨這是那個幽靈聯署這個是犯罪組織事實上幽靈聯署那個偽造文書並不是五年以上中所以依照我國目前的組織犯罪條例第二條\n\n3\n00:00:46,809 --> 00:01:11,167\n那個不算是組織犯罪但是什麼東西算組織犯罪就是最近發生在總統府國安會外交部還有民進黨民主學院還有民進黨立法院黨團都常有共諜那這個就完全符合組織犯罪的規定對不對三年以上五年以上有期徒刑所以我再說這個我們必須一定要很注重國安的安全而且國家安全是每個人的責任\n\n4\n00:01:12,188 --> 00:01:28,773\n那我想請教一下齁我先請問痾正次啦齁痾第一款齁第二條第一款那個發起資助主持操縱指揮發展組織目前的起訴比例定罪比例你有資料嗎痾有資料嗎好請問你稍後這多少我請我們市長來扶一下\n\n5\n00:01:39,358 --> 00:02:04,548\n跟委員報告那針對那個國家安全法的案件那起訴的案件在103年的時候是有81件定罪率起訴率定罪率目前定罪率是81%好起訴率呢起訴率是這個28點62.3抱歉所以起訴率蠻低的嘛\n\n6\n00:02:08,066 --> 00:02:10,390\n130件裡面有81件起訴那起訴率是62.3%你剛剛不是說20幾嗎\n\n7\n00:02:17,691 --> 00:02:44,393\n不是不是我看錯了好沒關係那不然這個到時候我再請教你們一下因為再給我一個比較精確的數據好我們會再提供數據因為我看了一下法務部跟司法院你們對於第二款的版本草案司法院認為說含義不明確法務部認為範圍不夠具體那所以說對於這一次委員所提出來的這個草案第二條第二款你們是不是不支持啊\n\n8\n00:02:45,305 --> 00:02:51,340\n我們都建請在座建請在座OK那就就是有疑慮司法院呢\n\n9\n00:02:52,933 --> 00:03:17,068\n也正如本院提出的報告確實有一些需要調整之處好謝謝那我想說這就是司法的專業啦因為有一些人提出一些國安的法條那我們有疑問或我們我們有疑問在那邊說很多人說那你就是中共同路人我想不能這樣我們都法律人事實上這個法條的規範它從公務上面變成是涉及國家安全及公益上面這個範圍變得非常的不明確\n\n10\n00:03:17,808 --> 00:03:32,984\n那如果這個因為這樣然後卡的罪又這麼重我覺得這不是一個立法委員一個禁止的立法委員該做了而且這個會變成到時候執政黨可以拿這個來作為政治攻擊我在這邊先聲明我非常支持國家安全\n\n11\n00:03:33,584 --> 00:03:52,390\n我也非常支持來自於任何一個國家或地區對我們的攻擊或滲透我也絕對反對但是我希望相關的法律在研擬的時候必須要明確尤其是最非常的重那我過往我看到了國安法反滲透法等等我都發現有一個問題就是它的\n\n12\n00:03:53,150 --> 00:04:17,062\n後來的無罪率很高也就是說一開始他問了非常多的人鄰里非常多人因為去大陸旅遊或吃個飯然後就被起訴是被約談起訴結果後面就大量的被約談的人被大量牽結不起訴那被起訴的又大量的判無罪那我覺得這個都是老民那甚至呢他就是為了選舉在做一些動作那不要讓我們\n\n13\n00:04:19,003 --> 00:04:32,231\n覺得政府怎麼走向是希望讓國家走向寒蟬效應這個是我們不期待的那我想時間的關係我最後我就提一個我想提你們\n\n14\n00:04:33,086 --> 00:04:51,798\n提供給我一些資料我希望法務部在一個月內能夠把違反國安法的起訴率有罪定罪率這個資料給我然後還有不起訴跟判無罪的理由提供一些我們立法建議還有這構成要件是有明確這個部分能夠給我\n\n15\n00:04:53,639 --> 00:05:11,676\n然後另外就是一週內給我們一份2023年到2024年總統跟立委大選期間違反選罷法、反滲透法這些上次我其實在SAR法治已經有提過請你們把這個資料給我們因為我覺得國家安全事先的防範重於事後的追陳\n\n16\n00:05:12,811 --> 00:05:27,689\n結果你們把重點放在事後追審而且還規定的不明確這樣是不對的那下週我自己再上法治委員會我有安排我希望說國安會國安局的人能夠一併來說明我也希望說大家不要動動就請假或是用一些理由說不要過來\n\n17\n00:05:29,622 --> 00:05:47,074\n國家安全全民都注意不能一邊喊很大聲抗中保台國家安全另外一面然後你連來都不來齁這是我希望下週在市長法治委員會開會的時候大家都能夠到我們一起來為國家安全能夠加油不要讓國家安全變成是打擊政治異己的工具謝謝好謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1089\t25496\t好 請法務部跟司法院委員好好 各位早安因為我看了那個民進黨委員的版本那我就那個第二條的部分我想請教一下因為我有看過司法院跟法務部你們對於這個草案的論述\n28141\t45472\t尤其是齁 我覺得最近發生很多共諜案那昨天還前天林永昌不是說國民黨這是那個幽靈聯署這個是犯罪組織 事實上幽靈聯署那個偽造文書並不是五年以上中所以依照我國目前的組織犯罪條例第二條\n46809\t71167\t那個不算是組織犯罪 但是什麼東西算組織犯罪就是最近發生在總統府 國安會 外交部 還有民進黨民主學院還有民進黨立法院 黨團 都常有共諜那這個就完全符合組織犯罪的規定對不對 三年以上 五年以上有期徒刑所以我再說 這個我們必須一定要很注重國安的安全而且國家安全是每個人的責任\n72188\t88773\t那我想請教一下齁我先請問痾正次啦齁痾第一款齁第二條第一款那個發起資助主持操縱指揮發展組織目前的起訴比例定罪比例你有資料嗎痾有資料嗎好請問你稍後這多少我請我們市長來扶一下\n99358\t124548\t跟委員報告那針對那個國家安全法的案件那起訴的案件在103年的時候是有81件定罪率起訴率定罪率目前定罪率是81%好起訴率呢起訴率是這個28點62.3抱歉所以起訴率蠻低的嘛\n128066\t130390\t130件裡面有81件起訴那起訴率是62.3%你剛剛不是說20幾嗎\n137691\t164393\t不是 不是 我看錯了好 沒關係 那不然這個到時候我再請教你們一下因為再給我一個比較精確的數據好 我們會再提供數據因為我看了一下法務部跟司法院你們對於第二款的版本草案司法院認為說含義不明確法務部認為範圍不夠具體那所以說對於這一次委員所提出來的這個草案第二條第二款你們是不是不支持啊\n165305\t171340\t我們都建請在座建請在座OK那就就是有疑慮司法院呢\n172933\t197068\t也正如本院提出的報告確實有一些需要調整之處好 謝謝 那我想說這就是司法的專業啦因為有一些人提出一些國安的法條那我們有疑問或我們我們有疑問在那邊說很多人說那你就是中共同路人我想不能這樣 我們都法律人事實上這個法條的規範它從公務上面變成是涉及國家安全及公益上面這個範圍變得非常的不明確\n197808\t212984\t那如果這個因為這樣然後卡的罪又這麼重我覺得這不是一個立法委員一個禁止的立法委員該做了而且這個會變成到時候執政黨可以拿這個來作為政治攻擊我在這邊先聲明我非常支持國家安全\n213584\t232390\t我也非常支持來自於任何一個國家或地區對我們的攻擊或滲透我也絕對反對但是我希望相關的法律在研擬的時候必須要明確尤其是最非常的重那我過往我看到了國安法反滲透法等等我都發現有一個問題就是它的\n233150\t257062\t後來的無罪率很高也就是說一開始他問了非常多的人鄰里非常多人因為去大陸旅遊或吃個飯然後就被起訴是被約談起訴結果後面就大量的被約談的人被大量牽結不起訴那被起訴的又大量的判無罪那我覺得這個都是老民那甚至呢他就是為了選舉在做一些動作那不要讓我們\n259003\t272231\t覺得政府怎麼走向是希望讓國家走向寒蟬效應這個是我們不期待的那我想時間的關係我最後我就提一個我想提你們\n273086\t291798\t提供給我一些資料我希望法務部在一個月內能夠把違反國安法的起訴率有罪定罪率這個資料給我然後還有不起訴跟判無罪的理由提供一些我們立法建議還有這構成要件是有明確這個部分能夠給我\n293639\t311676\t然後另外就是一週內給我們一份2023年到2024年總統跟立委大選期間違反選罷法、反滲透法這些上次我其實在SAR法治已經有提過請你們把這個資料給我們因為我覺得國家安全事先的防範重於事後的追陳\n312811\t327689\t結果你們把重點放在事後追審 而且還規定的不明確 這樣是不對的那下週我自己再上法治委員會 我有安排 我希望說國安會 國安局的人能夠一併來說明 我也希望說大家不要動動就請假 或是用一些理由說不要過來\n329622\t347074\t國家安全全民都注意不能一邊喊很大聲抗中保台國家安全另外一面然後你連來都不來齁這是我希望下週在市長法治委員會開會的時候大家都能夠到我們一起來為國家安全能夠加油不要讓國家安全變成是打擊政治異己的工具謝謝好 謝謝委員\n","txt":"好 請法務部跟司法院委員好好 各位早安因為我看了那個民進黨委員的版本那我就那個第二條的部分我想請教一下因為我有看過司法院跟法務部你們對於這個草案的論述\n尤其是齁 我覺得最近發生很多共諜案那昨天還前天林永昌不是說國民黨這是那個幽靈聯署這個是犯罪組織 事實上幽靈聯署那個偽造文書並不是五年以上中所以依照我國目前的組織犯罪條例第二條\n那個不算是組織犯罪 但是什麼東西算組織犯罪就是最近發生在總統府 國安會 外交部 還有民進黨民主學院還有民進黨立法院 黨團 都常有共諜那這個就完全符合組織犯罪的規定對不對 三年以上 五年以上有期徒刑所以我再說 這個我們必須一定要很注重國安的安全而且國家安全是每個人的責任\n那我想請教一下齁我先請問痾正次啦齁痾第一款齁第二條第一款那個發起資助主持操縱指揮發展組織目前的起訴比例定罪比例你有資料嗎痾有資料嗎好請問你稍後這多少我請我們市長來扶一下\n跟委員報告那針對那個國家安全法的案件那起訴的案件在103年的時候是有81件定罪率起訴率定罪率目前定罪率是81%好起訴率呢起訴率是這個28點62.3抱歉所以起訴率蠻低的嘛\n130件裡面有81件起訴那起訴率是62.3%你剛剛不是說20幾嗎\n不是 不是 我看錯了好 沒關係 那不然這個到時候我再請教你們一下因為再給我一個比較精確的數據好 我們會再提供數據因為我看了一下法務部跟司法院你們對於第二款的版本草案司法院認為說含義不明確法務部認為範圍不夠具體那所以說對於這一次委員所提出來的這個草案第二條第二款你們是不是不支持啊\n我們都建請在座建請在座OK那就就是有疑慮司法院呢\n也正如本院提出的報告確實有一些需要調整之處好 謝謝 那我想說這就是司法的專業啦因為有一些人提出一些國安的法條那我們有疑問或我們我們有疑問在那邊說很多人說那你就是中共同路人我想不能這樣 我們都法律人事實上這個法條的規範它從公務上面變成是涉及國家安全及公益上面這個範圍變得非常的不明確\n那如果這個因為這樣然後卡的罪又這麼重我覺得這不是一個立法委員一個禁止的立法委員該做了而且這個會變成到時候執政黨可以拿這個來作為政治攻擊我在這邊先聲明我非常支持國家安全\n我也非常支持來自於任何一個國家或地區對我們的攻擊或滲透我也絕對反對但是我希望相關的法律在研擬的時候必須要明確尤其是最非常的重那我過往我看到了國安法反滲透法等等我都發現有一個問題就是它的\n後來的無罪率很高也就是說一開始他問了非常多的人鄰里非常多人因為去大陸旅遊或吃個飯然後就被起訴是被約談起訴結果後面就大量的被約談的人被大量牽結不起訴那被起訴的又大量的判無罪那我覺得這個都是老民那甚至呢他就是為了選舉在做一些動作那不要讓我們\n覺得政府怎麼走向是希望讓國家走向寒蟬效應這個是我們不期待的那我想時間的關係我最後我就提一個我想提你們\n提供給我一些資料我希望法務部在一個月內能夠把違反國安法的起訴率有罪定罪率這個資料給我然後還有不起訴跟判無罪的理由提供一些我們立法建議還有這構成要件是有明確這個部分能夠給我\n然後另外就是一週內給我們一份2023年到2024年總統跟立委大選期間違反選罷法、反滲透法這些上次我其實在SAR法治已經有提過請你們把這個資料給我們因為我覺得國家安全事先的防範重於事後的追陳\n結果你們把重點放在事後追審 而且還規定的不明確 這樣是不對的那下週我自己再上法治委員會 我有安排 我希望說國安會 國安局的人能夠一併來說明 我也希望說大家不要動動就請假 或是用一些理由說不要過來\n國家安全全民都注意不能一邊喊很大聲抗中保台國家安全另外一面然後你連來都不來齁這是我希望下週在市長法治委員會開會的時候大家都能夠到我們一起來為國家安全能夠加油不要讓國家安全變成是打擊政治異己的工具謝謝好 謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.089 --> 00:25.496\n好請法務部跟司法院委員好好各位早安因為我看了那個民進黨委員的版本那我就那個第二條的部分我想請教一下因為我有看過司法院跟法務部你們對於這個草案的論述\n\n00:28.141 --> 00:45.472\n尤其是齁我覺得最近發生很多共諜案那昨天還前天林永昌不是說國民黨這是那個幽靈聯署這個是犯罪組織事實上幽靈聯署那個偽造文書並不是五年以上中所以依照我國目前的組織犯罪條例第二條\n\n00:46.809 --> 01:11.167\n那個不算是組織犯罪但是什麼東西算組織犯罪就是最近發生在總統府國安會外交部還有民進黨民主學院還有民進黨立法院黨團都常有共諜那這個就完全符合組織犯罪的規定對不對三年以上五年以上有期徒刑所以我再說這個我們必須一定要很注重國安的安全而且國家安全是每個人的責任\n\n01:12.188 --> 01:28.773\n那我想請教一下齁我先請問痾正次啦齁痾第一款齁第二條第一款那個發起資助主持操縱指揮發展組織目前的起訴比例定罪比例你有資料嗎痾有資料嗎好請問你稍後這多少我請我們市長來扶一下\n\n01:39.358 --> 02:04.548\n跟委員報告那針對那個國家安全法的案件那起訴的案件在103年的時候是有81件定罪率起訴率定罪率目前定罪率是81%好起訴率呢起訴率是這個28點62.3抱歉所以起訴率蠻低的嘛\n\n02:08.066 --> 02:10.390\n130件裡面有81件起訴那起訴率是62.3%你剛剛不是說20幾嗎\n\n02:17.691 --> 02:44.393\n不是不是我看錯了好沒關係那不然這個到時候我再請教你們一下因為再給我一個比較精確的數據好我們會再提供數據因為我看了一下法務部跟司法院你們對於第二款的版本草案司法院認為說含義不明確法務部認為範圍不夠具體那所以說對於這一次委員所提出來的這個草案第二條第二款你們是不是不支持啊\n\n02:45.305 --> 02:51.340\n我們都建請在座建請在座OK那就就是有疑慮司法院呢\n\n02:52.933 --> 03:17.068\n也正如本院提出的報告確實有一些需要調整之處好謝謝那我想說這就是司法的專業啦因為有一些人提出一些國安的法條那我們有疑問或我們我們有疑問在那邊說很多人說那你就是中共同路人我想不能這樣我們都法律人事實上這個法條的規範它從公務上面變成是涉及國家安全及公益上面這個範圍變得非常的不明確\n\n03:17.808 --> 03:32.984\n那如果這個因為這樣然後卡的罪又這麼重我覺得這不是一個立法委員一個禁止的立法委員該做了而且這個會變成到時候執政黨可以拿這個來作為政治攻擊我在這邊先聲明我非常支持國家安全\n\n03:33.584 --> 03:52.390\n我也非常支持來自於任何一個國家或地區對我們的攻擊或滲透我也絕對反對但是我希望相關的法律在研擬的時候必須要明確尤其是最非常的重那我過往我看到了國安法反滲透法等等我都發現有一個問題就是它的\n\n03:53.150 --> 04:17.062\n後來的無罪率很高也就是說一開始他問了非常多的人鄰里非常多人因為去大陸旅遊或吃個飯然後就被起訴是被約談起訴結果後面就大量的被約談的人被大量牽結不起訴那被起訴的又大量的判無罪那我覺得這個都是老民那甚至呢他就是為了選舉在做一些動作那不要讓我們\n\n04:19.003 --> 04:32.231\n覺得政府怎麼走向是希望讓國家走向寒蟬效應這個是我們不期待的那我想時間的關係我最後我就提一個我想提你們\n\n04:33.086 --> 04:51.798\n提供給我一些資料我希望法務部在一個月內能夠把違反國安法的起訴率有罪定罪率這個資料給我然後還有不起訴跟判無罪的理由提供一些我們立法建議還有這構成要件是有明確這個部分能夠給我\n\n04:53.639 --> 05:11.676\n然後另外就是一週內給我們一份2023年到2024年總統跟立委大選期間違反選罷法、反滲透法這些上次我其實在SAR法治已經有提過請你們把這個資料給我們因為我覺得國家安全事先的防範重於事後的追陳\n\n05:12.811 --> 05:27.689\n結果你們把重點放在事後追審而且還規定的不明確這樣是不對的那下週我自己再上法治委員會我有安排我希望說國安會國安局的人能夠一併來說明我也希望說大家不要動動就請假或是用一些理由說不要過來\n\n05:29.622 --> 05:47.074\n國家安全全民都注意不能一邊喊很大聲抗中保台國家安全另外一面然後你連來都不來齁這是我希望下週在市長法治委員會開會的時候大家都能夠到我們一起來為國家安全能夠加油不要讓國家安全變成是打擊政治異己的工具謝謝好謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.089,"end":25.496,"text":"好 請法務部跟司法院委員好好 各位早安因為我看了那個民進黨委員的版本那我就那個第二條的部分我想請教一下因為我有看過司法院跟法務部你們對於這個草案的論述"},{"start":28.141,"end":45.472,"text":"尤其是齁 我覺得最近發生很多共諜案那昨天還前天林永昌不是說國民黨這是那個幽靈聯署這個是犯罪組織 事實上幽靈聯署那個偽造文書並不是五年以上中所以依照我國目前的組織犯罪條例第二條"},{"start":46.809,"end":71.167,"text":"那個不算是組織犯罪 但是什麼東西算組織犯罪就是最近發生在總統府 國安會 外交部 還有民進黨民主學院還有民進黨立法院 黨團 都常有共諜那這個就完全符合組織犯罪的規定對不對 三年以上 五年以上有期徒刑所以我再說 這個我們必須一定要很注重國安的安全而且國家安全是每個人的責任"},{"start":72.188,"end":88.773,"text":"那我想請教一下齁我先請問痾正次啦齁痾第一款齁第二條第一款那個發起資助主持操縱指揮發展組織目前的起訴比例定罪比例你有資料嗎痾有資料嗎好請問你稍後這多少我請我們市長來扶一下"},{"start":99.358,"end":124.548,"text":"跟委員報告那針對那個國家安全法的案件那起訴的案件在103年的時候是有81件定罪率起訴率定罪率目前定罪率是81%好起訴率呢起訴率是這個28點62.3抱歉所以起訴率蠻低的嘛"},{"start":128.066,"end":130.39,"text":"130件裡面有81件起訴那起訴率是62.3%你剛剛不是說20幾嗎"},{"start":137.691,"end":164.393,"text":"不是 不是 我看錯了好 沒關係 那不然這個到時候我再請教你們一下因為再給我一個比較精確的數據好 我們會再提供數據因為我看了一下法務部跟司法院你們對於第二款的版本草案司法院認為說含義不明確法務部認為範圍不夠具體那所以說對於這一次委員所提出來的這個草案第二條第二款你們是不是不支持啊"},{"start":165.305,"end":171.34,"text":"我們都建請在座建請在座OK那就就是有疑慮司法院呢"},{"start":172.933,"end":197.068,"text":"也正如本院提出的報告確實有一些需要調整之處好 謝謝 那我想說這就是司法的專業啦因為有一些人提出一些國安的法條那我們有疑問或我們我們有疑問在那邊說很多人說那你就是中共同路人我想不能這樣 我們都法律人事實上這個法條的規範它從公務上面變成是涉及國家安全及公益上面這個範圍變得非常的不明確"},{"start":197.808,"end":212.984,"text":"那如果這個因為這樣然後卡的罪又這麼重我覺得這不是一個立法委員一個禁止的立法委員該做了而且這個會變成到時候執政黨可以拿這個來作為政治攻擊我在這邊先聲明我非常支持國家安全"},{"start":213.584,"end":232.39,"text":"我也非常支持來自於任何一個國家或地區對我們的攻擊或滲透我也絕對反對但是我希望相關的法律在研擬的時候必須要明確尤其是最非常的重那我過往我看到了國安法反滲透法等等我都發現有一個問題就是它的"},{"start":233.15,"end":257.062,"text":"後來的無罪率很高也就是說一開始他問了非常多的人鄰里非常多人因為去大陸旅遊或吃個飯然後就被起訴是被約談起訴結果後面就大量的被約談的人被大量牽結不起訴那被起訴的又大量的判無罪那我覺得這個都是老民那甚至呢他就是為了選舉在做一些動作那不要讓我們"},{"start":259.003,"end":272.231,"text":"覺得政府怎麼走向是希望讓國家走向寒蟬效應這個是我們不期待的那我想時間的關係我最後我就提一個我想提你們"},{"start":273.086,"end":291.798,"text":"提供給我一些資料我希望法務部在一個月內能夠把違反國安法的起訴率有罪定罪率這個資料給我然後還有不起訴跟判無罪的理由提供一些我們立法建議還有這構成要件是有明確這個部分能夠給我"},{"start":293.639,"end":311.676,"text":"然後另外就是一週內給我們一份2023年到2024年總統跟立委大選期間違反選罷法、反滲透法這些上次我其實在SAR法治已經有提過請你們把這個資料給我們因為我覺得國家安全事先的防範重於事後的追陳"},{"start":312.811,"end":327.689,"text":"結果你們把重點放在事後追審 而且還規定的不明確 這樣是不對的那下週我自己再上法治委員會 我有安排 我希望說國安會 國安局的人能夠一併來說明 我也希望說大家不要動動就請假 或是用一些理由說不要過來"},{"start":329.622,"end":347.074,"text":"國家安全全民都注意不能一邊喊很大聲抗中保台國家安全另外一面然後你連來都不來齁這是我希望下週在市長法治委員會開會的時候大家都能夠到我們一起來為國家安全能夠加油不要讓國家安全變成是打擊政治異己的工具謝謝好 謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":768,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（11時）謝謝，麻煩請法務部及司法院。"],["主席：請法務部跟司法院。"],["黃次長世杰：委員好。"],["吳委員宗憲：各位早安。因為我看了民進黨委員的版本，就第二條的部分，我想請教一下，我有看過司法院跟法務部對於草案的論述，尤其是最近發生很多共諜案，昨天還是前天，林右昌不是說國民黨這次的幽靈連署是犯罪組織，事實上，幽靈連署、偽造文書並不是五年以上重罪，依照我國目前的組織犯罪條例第二條，其實那個不算是組織犯罪，但是什麼東西算組織犯罪？就是最近發生在總統府、國安會、外交部、民進黨台灣民主學院，還有民進黨立法院黨團都藏有共諜，這個就完全符合組織犯罪的規定，對不對？三人以上，五年以上有期徒刑，所以我們必須一定要很注重國家安全，而且國家安全是每個人的責任。我想請教一下，我先請問政次，關於第二條第一款「發起、資助、主持、操縱、指揮或發展組織」目前的起訴比例或定罪比例，你有資料嗎？"],["黃次長世杰：請委員稍後，我請司長來回復一下。"],["張司長曉雯：跟委員報告，針對國家安全法的起訴案件，在103年的時候有81件。"],["吳委員宗憲：定罪率。"],["張司長曉雯：定罪率嗎？"],["吳委員宗憲：起訴率、定罪率。"],["張司長曉雯：目前定罪率是81%。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，起訴率呢？"],["張司長曉雯：起訴率是二十八點……62.3%，抱歉。"],["吳委員宗憲：所以起訴率滿低的嘛。"],["張司長曉雯：130件裡面有81件起訴，起訴率是62.3%。"],["吳委員宗憲：你剛剛不是說二十幾嗎？"],["張司長曉雯：不是、不是！是我看錯了。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，沒關係，不然我到時候再請教你們一下，再給我一個比較精確數字，好嗎？"],["黃次長世杰：好，我們會後再提供數據給委員。"],["吳委員宗憲：我再請問一下，因為我看了一下法務部跟司法院對於第二款的版本草案，司法院認為涵義不明確，法務部認為範圍不夠具體，對於這一次委員所提出來的草案第二條第二款，你們是不是不支持啊？"],["黃次長世杰：我們都建請再酌。"],["吳委員宗憲：建請再酌，OK，那就是有疑慮。司法院呢？"],["吳法官元曜：正如本院提出的報告，確實有一些需要調整之處。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，謝謝。我想這就是司法的專業，因為有一些人提出一些國安的法條，當我們有疑問的時候，很多人說你就是中共同路人，我想不能這樣，我們都是法律人。事實上，這個法條的規範從公務上面變成是涉及國家安全及公益上面，這個範圍變得非常地不明確，如果因為這樣而罪又這麼重，我覺得這不是一個盡責立法委員該做的，而且到時候會變成執政黨可以拿這個來作為政治攻擊。我在這邊先聲明，我非常支持國家安全，對於任何一個國家或地區對我們的攻擊或滲透，我也絕對反對，但是我希望相關的法律在研擬的時候必須要明確，尤其是罪非常地重。過往我看到的國安法、反滲透法等等，我都發現有一個問題就是後來的無罪率很高，也就是說，一開始他問了非常多的人，鄰里非常多人因為去大陸旅遊或吃個飯，然後就被約談起訴，結果被約談的人後面被大量簽結不起訴，被起訴的又大量地判無罪，我覺得這個都是擾民，甚至他就是為了選舉在做一些動作，不要讓我們覺得政府是希望讓國家走向寒蟬效應，這個是我們不期待的。","時間的關係，最後我就提一個，我想請你們提供給我一些資料，我希望法務部在一個月內能夠把違反國安法的起訴率、定罪率的資料，還有不起訴跟判無罪的理由及構成要件是否明確，提供我們一些立法建議，能夠將這部分資料提供給我；另外，一週內給我們一份2023年到2024年總統跟立委大選期間違反選罷法、反滲透法的資料，上次我其實在司法及法制已經有提過，請你們把這個資料給我們，因為我覺得國家安全事先的防範重於事後的追懲，結果你們把重點放在事後追懲，而且還規定得不明確，這樣是不對的。","下週我自己在司法及法制委員會有安排，我希望國安會、國安局能夠一併來說明，我也希望大家不要動不動就請假，或是用一些理由說不要過來，因為國家安全全民都要注意，不能一邊很大聲地喊抗中保臺、國家安全，另外一邊是你連來都不來，我希望下週在司法及法制委員會開會時，大家都能夠到，我們一起來為國家安全加油，不要讓國家安全變成是打擊政治異己的工具，謝謝。"],["黃次長世杰：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱委員不在。","何欣純、何欣純、何欣純委員不在。","陳冠廷、陳冠廷、陳冠廷委員不在。","我們請吳思瑤委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-15","speakers":["張宏陸","黃捷","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","蘇巧慧","李柏毅","高金素梅","王美惠","黃國昌","吳琪銘","許宇甄","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","徐欣瑩","吳宗憲","吳思瑤","牛煦庭","楊瓊瓔","王鴻薇","林楚茵","黃建賓","丁學忠"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-01"],"gazette_id":"1144501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144501_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員陳冠廷等21人擬具「國家安全法第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員\n沈伯洋等17人擬具「國家安全法第十三條及第十三條之一條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員陳冠\n廷等23人擬具「國家安全法第四條及第八條條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員邱志偉等16人擬具\n「國家安全法第三條條文修正草案」案；五、審查委員沈伯洋等20人擬具「國家安全法第二條及\n第七條條文修正草案」案；六、審查委員王定宇等16人擬具「國家安全法第二條及第七條條文修\n正草案」案；七、審查委員沈伯洋等20人擬具「國家安全法第三條、第八條及第十八條條文修正\n草案」案；八、審查委員陳冠廷等19人擬具「國家安全法增訂第十九條之一條文草案」案；九、\n審查委員黃捷等16人擬具「國家安全法第二條、第三條及第七條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1144501_00001"}}}