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{\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 576.477, \"end\": 576.638, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 576.638, \"end\": 576.778, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 576.778, \"end\": 576.798, \"score\": 0.161}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:01,692\n有請我們黃次長跟梁副主委好黃次長跟副主委\n\n2\n00:00:15,216 --> 00:00:32,796\n好我把握時間喔有兩個主題第一個有借選就會有借罷也就是中共對於台灣的民主選舉或是民主的罷免我們有沒有什麼超前部署的因應防範第二個我回到國安法立法院不應當是局外人來下一頁\n\n3\n00:00:34,458 --> 00:00:55,564\n袁紅冰教授他一再的在警示著就以去年他很早的就揭示了習近平指示戰場就在立法院中共只要鎖定結盟立法院的同路人就可以用民主來破壞台灣的民主他是現在進行式所以袁教授所說的事情在過去一年的國會現場觀察起來一一應驗了下一頁\n\n4\n00:00:59,165 --> 00:01:22,822\n所以袁教授再一次的示警就是這幾天中國將介入台灣的大罷免的行動罷免是跟選舉一樣都是憲法珍貴的人民基本權所以中國過去介入台灣的民主選舉劣跡斑斑那現在會不會也介入台灣的民主人民基本權的另外一個就是罷免呢\n\n5\n00:01:23,562 --> 00:01:42,017\n袁教授所说的中共对台工作领导小组的文件已经批示了要着重分化民进党跟公民霸团的关系要着力在防止大霸们行动中的公民团体的领军人物来进行抹黑因为担心他们未来来参选\n\n6\n00:01:42,697 --> 00:02:03,165\n第三個大罷免進入三階所以中國一直在觀察要用各種認知作戰的宣傳手段從人格上來摧毀這些大罷免的行動就交於梁副主委或是我們次長這邊有任何具體這樣子的一個情資的判斷或者是你們有什麼樣的因應嗎袁紅冰教授所說的這份\n\n7\n00:02:09,130 --> 00:02:24,464\n文件我們並沒有掌握但是如果對岸想要做這些事情我是一點都不驚訝所以有沒有這些文件我覺得這些事情都是\n\n8\n00:02:25,851 --> 00:02:50,747\n都是對岸會想要試圖去做的那法務部有另外的什麼樣的情資我們看下一頁我讓次長回答這一頁我一直認為就像剛剛梁副主委所說的不管文件的真實具體與否但是以中國過去介入民主選舉的這些作為來講未來介入罷免也應當讓不足為奇\n\n9\n00:02:51,647 --> 00:02:56,050\n法務部過去呢我在司法法治委員會你們針對整個選舉作為選舉的舉行會有境外資金借選會有網路選舉賭盤會有認知作戰操作訊息干擾等等你們都有專案會去偵辦會去啟動那我就交於次長那這一次如果在未來的罷免從二階到三階法務部也應當來啟動一個類似民主選舉的必要的作為是嗎\n\n10\n00:03:20,530 --> 00:03:33,974\n我想這個因為現行的這個嫌霸法跟這個反滲透法都有相關的這個法則的條文那麼各檢察機關都會以法來辦理那我也建議我們會待會去請檢察機關來過去我們對於民主選舉的舉行所啟動的所有不管反會選啦反賭盤啦這些都要做\n\n11\n00:03:41,916 --> 00:04:10,569\n反境外的资金各种借选方式未来在罢免的民主的这些人民基本权利行使过程法务部也要依法行政那今天的主题呢要修国安法非常遗憾今天我们看在野党的多数委员也都说支持国安反共谍渗透可到目前为止提出来的国安法的修正案里头九个版本都是民进党委员所提的\n\n12\n00:04:11,289 --> 00:04:35,274\n那我个人所看了这总共的六个条文我认为它影响的层面广泛为大内容方向我都可以支持但我认为还要比严谨更严谨内容再严密要周全再周全这应当也是行政部门未来不管有没有院版我们都启动多元扩大的对话下一页\n\n13\n00:04:36,209 --> 00:04:59,939\n那過去法務部針對整個共諜滲透有很多你們做的譬如說在產業界的防止科技掏空那也有防止借選滲透還有防止發展組織利誘軍人在軍人的部分今天最新的有兩件我要就教於您一個就是今天周刊所說的透過黑幫的滲透這件事情次長要不要簡單說明\n\n14\n00:05:01,837 --> 00:05:29,758\n好謝謝因為這個他應該是在我們到這邊之後才出來的新聞那我想簡單就這個議題事實上應該也也在台灣這個現象我們觀察到很久了那我們也會責成我們的檢察機關依法來查查只要有違反國安法或反滲透法相關的這個規定我們都依法來檢查要強化查查因為如果就週刊的報導他不只買通黑道未來可能不管在平時對於台灣社會的滋擾跟在戰時透過黑幫\n\n15\n00:05:32,815 --> 00:05:45,130\n來打擊台灣的安全這絕對不容小覷另外一個就是國會的被滲透的事件下一頁在立黨委員一直在帶風向說共諜都在民進黨是這樣嗎2020年立委陳淑慧前助理來\n\n16\n00:05:50,902 --> 00:06:12,517\n被判了徒刑因為涉犯共諜案國民黨的2024年國民黨的李尚典郭沛君替鄭天才委員助選免費交代附中旅遊也被判刑了國民黨的民眾黨的桃園黨部發言人馬志威呢受中國資助百萬來選立委而且他拿到的是國會的中央各部會國會聯絡名冊賣給中國也被判刑八個月這民眾黨的\n\n17\n00:06:17,020 --> 00:06:34,510\n那民進黨我們當然很遺憾尤其是前院長的幕僚也目前要偵辦絕對不容寬待但是不要誤帶風向什麼共諜都在民進黨我們就事實論事實只要是共諜都不允許都要查辦下一頁\n\n18\n00:06:35,570 --> 00:06:57,491\n立法院2024年的年度代表字是匪哦真是讓人匪夷所思但是我們要審慎因應最後一個問題下一頁因為國安漏洞如果出現在國會目前公部門不管是調查局幫忙做的公務人員的一般查核或者是特殊查核或是可能考試院有幫忙協助拒絕的部分\n\n19\n00:06:58,392 --> 00:07:11,565\n現在我們正在研議在國會端對於立委對於立院的職員工對於國會助理能不能夠參照公務部門有任何查核或拒絕的機制呢可以給我們什麼樣的建議這個目前我們也在研議修法當中那你們會提出修但是這次可能是立法院的內規法\n\n20\n00:07:23,322 --> 00:07:37,929\n好,我在这里说,我期待法务部就你们研修的部分提供给立法院,然后民进党团会启动我们国会改革2.0,也就是以国安的部分来做立法院无法内规的修订下页。\n\n21\n00:07:38,929 --> 00:07:54,376\n所以說藍白如果不做連附中登載這件事情藍白都不做民進黨團會先行就教於梁副主委民進黨團預計我們要針對立委以及助理附中的公開登載揭露\n\n22\n00:07:54,876 --> 00:08:10,057\n我們的做法朝向簽同意書朝向主動揭露附中的資訊包括立委跟助理喔還有達到事前報備事後報告如果民進黨團演繹這樣子我們在演繹當中陸委會是不是樂見或是給我們更正向的建議\n\n23\n00:08:11,260 --> 00:08:35,973\n我們陸委會正在研議相關的修法我們現在目前是傾向把立委直接放進去也就是沈伯陽一直被擋的案子那但是助理的部分因為我想大家都知道這個生態如果你要規範你只能規範公費助理但是一旦規範下去的話很多公費助理就會變成自費助理\n\n24\n00:08:37,434 --> 00:08:55,727\n所以這個規範其實不是很有效所以我個人是建議說直接規範立委就好了當然就政府的法案可能規範立委是優先更何況現在已經連立委的附中登載就被擋了363次\n\n25\n00:08:57,228 --> 00:09:11,561\n但是我在這裡也擴大後續會再就教於各位我們民進黨團會先行我們自己先來做黨團內部的包括立委跟助理的這些揭露的作為也許我相信民進黨的委員們公費助理跟自費助理我們受到的嚴謹\n\n26\n00:09:16,085 --> 00:09:36,798\n我们的自我要求都是一样高那刚刚黄次长说的正在研议对于国会的反共谍渗透有哪些法规法案民进党团非常愿意我们一起来共商讨论毕竟保密防谍共谍不应当存在任何地方包括立法院不好意思占用时间我们一起努力谢谢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t1692\t有請我們黃次長跟梁副主委好 黃次長跟副主委\n15216\t32796\t好我把握時間喔有兩個主題第一個有借選就會有借罷也就是中共對於台灣的民主選舉或是民主的罷免我們有沒有什麼超前部署的因應防範第二個我回到國安法立法院不應當是局外人來下一頁\n34458\t55564\t袁紅冰教授他一再的在警示著就以去年他很早的就揭示了習近平指示戰場就在立法院中共只要鎖定結盟立法院的同路人就可以用民主來破壞台灣的民主他是現在進行式所以袁教授所說的事情在過去一年的國會現場觀察起來一一應驗了下一頁\n59165\t82822\t所以袁教授再一次的示警就是這幾天中國將介入台灣的大罷免的行動罷免是跟選舉一樣都是憲法珍貴的人民基本權所以中國過去介入台灣的民主選舉劣跡斑斑那現在會不會也介入台灣的民主人民基本權的另外一個就是罷免呢\n83562\t102017\t袁教授所说的中共对台工作领导小组的文件已经批示了要着重分化民进党跟公民霸团的关系要着力在防止大霸们行动中的公民团体的领军人物来进行抹黑因为担心他们未来来参选\n102697\t123165\t第三個大罷免進入三階所以中國一直在觀察要用各種認知作戰的宣傳手段從人格上來摧毀這些大罷免的行動就交於梁副主委或是我們次長這邊有任何具體這樣子的一個情資的判斷或者是你們有什麼樣的因應嗎袁紅冰教授所說的這份\n129130\t144464\t文件我們並沒有掌握但是如果對岸想要做這些事情我是一點都不驚訝所以有沒有這些文件我覺得這些事情都是\n145851\t170747\t都是對岸會想要試圖去做的那法務部有另外的什麼樣的情資我們看下一頁 我讓次長回答這一頁我一直認為就像剛剛梁副主委所說的不管文件的真實具體與否但是以中國過去介入民主選舉的這些作為來講未來介入罷免也應當讓不足為奇\n171647\t176050\t法務部過去呢我在司法法治委員會你們針對整個選舉作為選舉的舉行會有境外資金借選會有網路選舉賭盤會有認知作戰操作訊息干擾等等你們都有專案會去偵辦會去啟動那我就交於次長那這一次如果在未來的罷免從二階到三階法務部也應當來啟動一個類似民主選舉的必要的作為是嗎\n200530\t213974\t我想這個因為現行的這個嫌霸法跟這個反滲透法都有相關的這個法則的條文那麼各檢察機關都會以法來辦理那我也建議我們會待會去請檢察機關來過去我們對於民主選舉的舉行所啟動的所有不管反會選啦反賭盤啦這些都要做\n221916\t250569\t反境外的资金各种借选方式未来在罢免的民主的这些人民基本权利行使过程法务部也要依法行政那今天的主题呢要修国安法非常遗憾今天我们看在野党的多数委员也都说支持国安反共谍渗透可到目前为止提出来的国安法的修正案里头九个版本都是民进党委员所提的\n251289\t275274\t那我个人所看了这总共的六个条文我认为它影响的层面广泛为大内容方向我都可以支持但我认为还要比严谨更严谨内容再严密要周全再周全这应当也是行政部门未来不管有没有院版我们都启动多元扩大的对话下一页\n276209\t299939\t那過去法務部針對整個共諜滲透有很多你們做的譬如說在產業界的防止科技掏空那也有防止借選滲透還有防止發展組織利誘軍人在軍人的部分今天最新的有兩件我要就教於您一個就是今天周刊所說的透過黑幫的滲透這件事情次長要不要簡單說明\n301837\t329758\t好 謝謝因為這個他應該是在我們到這邊之後才出來的新聞那我想簡單就這個議題事實上應該也也在台灣這個現象我們觀察到很久了那我們也會責成我們的檢察機關依法來查查只要有違反國安法或反滲透法相關的這個規定我們都依法來檢查要強化查查因為如果就週刊的報導他不只買通黑道未來可能不管在平時對於台灣社會的滋擾跟在戰時透過黑幫\n332815\t345130\t來打擊台灣的安全這絕對不容小覷另外一個就是國會的被滲透的事件下一頁在立黨委員一直在帶風向說共諜都在民進黨是這樣嗎2020年立委陳淑慧前助理來\n350902\t372517\t被判了徒刑因為涉犯共諜案 國民黨的2024年國民黨的李尚典 郭沛君替鄭天才委員助選免費交代附中旅遊也被判刑了 國民黨的民眾黨的桃園黨部發言人馬志威呢受中國資助百萬來選立委而且他拿到的是國會的中央各部會國會聯絡名冊賣給中國也被判刑八個月 這民眾黨的\n377020\t394510\t那民進黨我們當然很遺憾尤其是前院長的幕僚也目前要偵辦絕對不容寬待但是不要誤帶風向什麼共諜都在民進黨我們就事實論事實只要是共諜都不允許都要查辦下一頁\n395570\t417491\t立法院2024年的年度代表字是匪哦真是讓人匪夷所思但是我們要審慎因應最後一個問題下一頁因為國安漏洞如果出現在國會目前公部門不管是調查局幫忙做的公務人員的一般查核或者是特殊查核或是可能考試院有幫忙協助拒絕的部分\n418392\t431565\t現在我們正在研議在國會端對於立委對於立院的職員工對於國會助理能不能夠參照公務部門有任何查核或拒絕的機制呢可以給我們什麼樣的建議這個目前我們也在研議修法當中那你們會提出修但是這次可能是立法院的內規法\n443322\t457929\t好,我在这里说,我期待法务部就你们研修的部分提供给立法院,然后民进党团会启动我们国会改革2.0,也就是以国安的部分来做立法院无法内规的修订下页。\n458929\t474376\t所以說藍白如果不做連附中登載這件事情藍白都不做民進黨團會先行就教於梁副主委民進黨團預計我們要針對立委以及助理附中的公開登載揭露\n474876\t490057\t我們的做法朝向簽同意書朝向主動揭露附中的資訊包括立委跟助理喔還有達到事前報備事後報告如果民進黨團演繹這樣子我們在演繹當中陸委會是不是樂見或是給我們更正向的建議\n491260\t515973\t我們陸委會正在研議相關的修法我們現在目前是傾向把立委直接放進去也就是沈伯陽一直被擋的案子那但是助理的部分因為我想大家都知道這個生態如果你要規範你只能規範公費助理但是一旦規範下去的話很多公費助理就會變成自費助理\n517434\t535727\t所以這個規範其實不是很有效所以我個人是建議說直接規範立委就好了當然就政府的法案可能規範立委是優先更何況現在已經連立委的附中登載就被擋了363次\n537228\t551561\t但是我在這裡也擴大後續會再就教於各位我們民進黨團會先行我們自己先來做黨團內部的包括立委跟助理的這些揭露的作為也許我相信民進黨的委員們公費助理跟自費助理我們受到的嚴謹\n556085\t576798\t我们的自我要求都是一样高那刚刚黄次长说的正在研议对于国会的反共谍渗透有哪些法规法案民进党团非常愿意我们一起来共商讨论毕竟保密防谍共谍不应当存在任何地方包括立法院不好意思占用时间我们一起努力谢谢\n","txt":"有請我們黃次長跟梁副主委好 黃次長跟副主委\n好我把握時間喔有兩個主題第一個有借選就會有借罷也就是中共對於台灣的民主選舉或是民主的罷免我們有沒有什麼超前部署的因應防範第二個我回到國安法立法院不應當是局外人來下一頁\n袁紅冰教授他一再的在警示著就以去年他很早的就揭示了習近平指示戰場就在立法院中共只要鎖定結盟立法院的同路人就可以用民主來破壞台灣的民主他是現在進行式所以袁教授所說的事情在過去一年的國會現場觀察起來一一應驗了下一頁\n所以袁教授再一次的示警就是這幾天中國將介入台灣的大罷免的行動罷免是跟選舉一樣都是憲法珍貴的人民基本權所以中國過去介入台灣的民主選舉劣跡斑斑那現在會不會也介入台灣的民主人民基本權的另外一個就是罷免呢\n袁教授所说的中共对台工作领导小组的文件已经批示了要着重分化民进党跟公民霸团的关系要着力在防止大霸们行动中的公民团体的领军人物来进行抹黑因为担心他们未来来参选\n第三個大罷免進入三階所以中國一直在觀察要用各種認知作戰的宣傳手段從人格上來摧毀這些大罷免的行動就交於梁副主委或是我們次長這邊有任何具體這樣子的一個情資的判斷或者是你們有什麼樣的因應嗎袁紅冰教授所說的這份\n文件我們並沒有掌握但是如果對岸想要做這些事情我是一點都不驚訝所以有沒有這些文件我覺得這些事情都是\n都是對岸會想要試圖去做的那法務部有另外的什麼樣的情資我們看下一頁 我讓次長回答這一頁我一直認為就像剛剛梁副主委所說的不管文件的真實具體與否但是以中國過去介入民主選舉的這些作為來講未來介入罷免也應當讓不足為奇\n法務部過去呢我在司法法治委員會你們針對整個選舉作為選舉的舉行會有境外資金借選會有網路選舉賭盤會有認知作戰操作訊息干擾等等你們都有專案會去偵辦會去啟動那我就交於次長那這一次如果在未來的罷免從二階到三階法務部也應當來啟動一個類似民主選舉的必要的作為是嗎\n我想這個因為現行的這個嫌霸法跟這個反滲透法都有相關的這個法則的條文那麼各檢察機關都會以法來辦理那我也建議我們會待會去請檢察機關來過去我們對於民主選舉的舉行所啟動的所有不管反會選啦反賭盤啦這些都要做\n反境外的资金各种借选方式未来在罢免的民主的这些人民基本权利行使过程法务部也要依法行政那今天的主题呢要修国安法非常遗憾今天我们看在野党的多数委员也都说支持国安反共谍渗透可到目前为止提出来的国安法的修正案里头九个版本都是民进党委员所提的\n那我个人所看了这总共的六个条文我认为它影响的层面广泛为大内容方向我都可以支持但我认为还要比严谨更严谨内容再严密要周全再周全这应当也是行政部门未来不管有没有院版我们都启动多元扩大的对话下一页\n那過去法務部針對整個共諜滲透有很多你們做的譬如說在產業界的防止科技掏空那也有防止借選滲透還有防止發展組織利誘軍人在軍人的部分今天最新的有兩件我要就教於您一個就是今天周刊所說的透過黑幫的滲透這件事情次長要不要簡單說明\n好 謝謝因為這個他應該是在我們到這邊之後才出來的新聞那我想簡單就這個議題事實上應該也也在台灣這個現象我們觀察到很久了那我們也會責成我們的檢察機關依法來查查只要有違反國安法或反滲透法相關的這個規定我們都依法來檢查要強化查查因為如果就週刊的報導他不只買通黑道未來可能不管在平時對於台灣社會的滋擾跟在戰時透過黑幫\n來打擊台灣的安全這絕對不容小覷另外一個就是國會的被滲透的事件下一頁在立黨委員一直在帶風向說共諜都在民進黨是這樣嗎2020年立委陳淑慧前助理來\n被判了徒刑因為涉犯共諜案 國民黨的2024年國民黨的李尚典 郭沛君替鄭天才委員助選免費交代附中旅遊也被判刑了 國民黨的民眾黨的桃園黨部發言人馬志威呢受中國資助百萬來選立委而且他拿到的是國會的中央各部會國會聯絡名冊賣給中國也被判刑八個月 這民眾黨的\n那民進黨我們當然很遺憾尤其是前院長的幕僚也目前要偵辦絕對不容寬待但是不要誤帶風向什麼共諜都在民進黨我們就事實論事實只要是共諜都不允許都要查辦下一頁\n立法院2024年的年度代表字是匪哦真是讓人匪夷所思但是我們要審慎因應最後一個問題下一頁因為國安漏洞如果出現在國會目前公部門不管是調查局幫忙做的公務人員的一般查核或者是特殊查核或是可能考試院有幫忙協助拒絕的部分\n現在我們正在研議在國會端對於立委對於立院的職員工對於國會助理能不能夠參照公務部門有任何查核或拒絕的機制呢可以給我們什麼樣的建議這個目前我們也在研議修法當中那你們會提出修但是這次可能是立法院的內規法\n好,我在这里说,我期待法务部就你们研修的部分提供给立法院,然后民进党团会启动我们国会改革2.0,也就是以国安的部分来做立法院无法内规的修订下页。\n所以說藍白如果不做連附中登載這件事情藍白都不做民進黨團會先行就教於梁副主委民進黨團預計我們要針對立委以及助理附中的公開登載揭露\n我們的做法朝向簽同意書朝向主動揭露附中的資訊包括立委跟助理喔還有達到事前報備事後報告如果民進黨團演繹這樣子我們在演繹當中陸委會是不是樂見或是給我們更正向的建議\n我們陸委會正在研議相關的修法我們現在目前是傾向把立委直接放進去也就是沈伯陽一直被擋的案子那但是助理的部分因為我想大家都知道這個生態如果你要規範你只能規範公費助理但是一旦規範下去的話很多公費助理就會變成自費助理\n所以這個規範其實不是很有效所以我個人是建議說直接規範立委就好了當然就政府的法案可能規範立委是優先更何況現在已經連立委的附中登載就被擋了363次\n但是我在這裡也擴大後續會再就教於各位我們民進黨團會先行我們自己先來做黨團內部的包括立委跟助理的這些揭露的作為也許我相信民進黨的委員們公費助理跟自費助理我們受到的嚴謹\n我们的自我要求都是一样高那刚刚黄次长说的正在研议对于国会的反共谍渗透有哪些法规法案民进党团非常愿意我们一起来共商讨论毕竟保密防谍共谍不应当存在任何地方包括立法院不好意思占用时间我们一起努力谢谢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:01.692\n有請我們黃次長跟梁副主委好黃次長跟副主委\n\n00:15.216 --> 00:32.796\n好我把握時間喔有兩個主題第一個有借選就會有借罷也就是中共對於台灣的民主選舉或是民主的罷免我們有沒有什麼超前部署的因應防範第二個我回到國安法立法院不應當是局外人來下一頁\n\n00:34.458 --> 00:55.564\n袁紅冰教授他一再的在警示著就以去年他很早的就揭示了習近平指示戰場就在立法院中共只要鎖定結盟立法院的同路人就可以用民主來破壞台灣的民主他是現在進行式所以袁教授所說的事情在過去一年的國會現場觀察起來一一應驗了下一頁\n\n00:59.165 --> 01:22.822\n所以袁教授再一次的示警就是這幾天中國將介入台灣的大罷免的行動罷免是跟選舉一樣都是憲法珍貴的人民基本權所以中國過去介入台灣的民主選舉劣跡斑斑那現在會不會也介入台灣的民主人民基本權的另外一個就是罷免呢\n\n01:23.562 --> 01:42.017\n袁教授所说的中共对台工作领导小组的文件已经批示了要着重分化民进党跟公民霸团的关系要着力在防止大霸们行动中的公民团体的领军人物来进行抹黑因为担心他们未来来参选\n\n01:42.697 --> 02:03.165\n第三個大罷免進入三階所以中國一直在觀察要用各種認知作戰的宣傳手段從人格上來摧毀這些大罷免的行動就交於梁副主委或是我們次長這邊有任何具體這樣子的一個情資的判斷或者是你們有什麼樣的因應嗎袁紅冰教授所說的這份\n\n02:09.130 --> 02:24.464\n文件我們並沒有掌握但是如果對岸想要做這些事情我是一點都不驚訝所以有沒有這些文件我覺得這些事情都是\n\n02:25.851 --> 02:50.747\n都是對岸會想要試圖去做的那法務部有另外的什麼樣的情資我們看下一頁我讓次長回答這一頁我一直認為就像剛剛梁副主委所說的不管文件的真實具體與否但是以中國過去介入民主選舉的這些作為來講未來介入罷免也應當讓不足為奇\n\n02:51.647 --> 02:56.050\n法務部過去呢我在司法法治委員會你們針對整個選舉作為選舉的舉行會有境外資金借選會有網路選舉賭盤會有認知作戰操作訊息干擾等等你們都有專案會去偵辦會去啟動那我就交於次長那這一次如果在未來的罷免從二階到三階法務部也應當來啟動一個類似民主選舉的必要的作為是嗎\n\n03:20.530 --> 03:33.974\n我想這個因為現行的這個嫌霸法跟這個反滲透法都有相關的這個法則的條文那麼各檢察機關都會以法來辦理那我也建議我們會待會去請檢察機關來過去我們對於民主選舉的舉行所啟動的所有不管反會選啦反賭盤啦這些都要做\n\n03:41.916 --> 04:10.569\n反境外的资金各种借选方式未来在罢免的民主的这些人民基本权利行使过程法务部也要依法行政那今天的主题呢要修国安法非常遗憾今天我们看在野党的多数委员也都说支持国安反共谍渗透可到目前为止提出来的国安法的修正案里头九个版本都是民进党委员所提的\n\n04:11.289 --> 04:35.274\n那我个人所看了这总共的六个条文我认为它影响的层面广泛为大内容方向我都可以支持但我认为还要比严谨更严谨内容再严密要周全再周全这应当也是行政部门未来不管有没有院版我们都启动多元扩大的对话下一页\n\n04:36.209 --> 04:59.939\n那過去法務部針對整個共諜滲透有很多你們做的譬如說在產業界的防止科技掏空那也有防止借選滲透還有防止發展組織利誘軍人在軍人的部分今天最新的有兩件我要就教於您一個就是今天周刊所說的透過黑幫的滲透這件事情次長要不要簡單說明\n\n05:01.837 --> 05:29.758\n好謝謝因為這個他應該是在我們到這邊之後才出來的新聞那我想簡單就這個議題事實上應該也也在台灣這個現象我們觀察到很久了那我們也會責成我們的檢察機關依法來查查只要有違反國安法或反滲透法相關的這個規定我們都依法來檢查要強化查查因為如果就週刊的報導他不只買通黑道未來可能不管在平時對於台灣社會的滋擾跟在戰時透過黑幫\n\n05:32.815 --> 05:45.130\n來打擊台灣的安全這絕對不容小覷另外一個就是國會的被滲透的事件下一頁在立黨委員一直在帶風向說共諜都在民進黨是這樣嗎2020年立委陳淑慧前助理來\n\n05:50.902 --> 06:12.517\n被判了徒刑因為涉犯共諜案國民黨的2024年國民黨的李尚典郭沛君替鄭天才委員助選免費交代附中旅遊也被判刑了國民黨的民眾黨的桃園黨部發言人馬志威呢受中國資助百萬來選立委而且他拿到的是國會的中央各部會國會聯絡名冊賣給中國也被判刑八個月這民眾黨的\n\n06:17.020 --> 06:34.510\n那民進黨我們當然很遺憾尤其是前院長的幕僚也目前要偵辦絕對不容寬待但是不要誤帶風向什麼共諜都在民進黨我們就事實論事實只要是共諜都不允許都要查辦下一頁\n\n06:35.570 --> 06:57.491\n立法院2024年的年度代表字是匪哦真是讓人匪夷所思但是我們要審慎因應最後一個問題下一頁因為國安漏洞如果出現在國會目前公部門不管是調查局幫忙做的公務人員的一般查核或者是特殊查核或是可能考試院有幫忙協助拒絕的部分\n\n06:58.392 --> 07:11.565\n現在我們正在研議在國會端對於立委對於立院的職員工對於國會助理能不能夠參照公務部門有任何查核或拒絕的機制呢可以給我們什麼樣的建議這個目前我們也在研議修法當中那你們會提出修但是這次可能是立法院的內規法\n\n07:23.322 --> 07:37.929\n好,我在这里说,我期待法务部就你们研修的部分提供给立法院,然后民进党团会启动我们国会改革2.0,也就是以国安的部分来做立法院无法内规的修订下页。\n\n07:38.929 --> 07:54.376\n所以說藍白如果不做連附中登載這件事情藍白都不做民進黨團會先行就教於梁副主委民進黨團預計我們要針對立委以及助理附中的公開登載揭露\n\n07:54.876 --> 08:10.057\n我們的做法朝向簽同意書朝向主動揭露附中的資訊包括立委跟助理喔還有達到事前報備事後報告如果民進黨團演繹這樣子我們在演繹當中陸委會是不是樂見或是給我們更正向的建議\n\n08:11.260 --> 08:35.973\n我們陸委會正在研議相關的修法我們現在目前是傾向把立委直接放進去也就是沈伯陽一直被擋的案子那但是助理的部分因為我想大家都知道這個生態如果你要規範你只能規範公費助理但是一旦規範下去的話很多公費助理就會變成自費助理\n\n08:37.434 --> 08:55.727\n所以這個規範其實不是很有效所以我個人是建議說直接規範立委就好了當然就政府的法案可能規範立委是優先更何況現在已經連立委的附中登載就被擋了363次\n\n08:57.228 --> 09:11.561\n但是我在這裡也擴大後續會再就教於各位我們民進黨團會先行我們自己先來做黨團內部的包括立委跟助理的這些揭露的作為也許我相信民進黨的委員們公費助理跟自費助理我們受到的嚴謹\n\n09:16.085 --> 09:36.798\n我们的自我要求都是一样高那刚刚黄次长说的正在研议对于国会的反共谍渗透有哪些法规法案民进党团非常愿意我们一起来共商讨论毕竟保密防谍共谍不应当存在任何地方包括立法院不好意思占用时间我们一起努力谢谢\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":1.692,"text":"有請我們黃次長跟梁副主委好 黃次長跟副主委"},{"start":15.216,"end":32.796,"text":"好我把握時間喔有兩個主題第一個有借選就會有借罷也就是中共對於台灣的民主選舉或是民主的罷免我們有沒有什麼超前部署的因應防範第二個我回到國安法立法院不應當是局外人來下一頁"},{"start":34.458,"end":55.564,"text":"袁紅冰教授他一再的在警示著就以去年他很早的就揭示了習近平指示戰場就在立法院中共只要鎖定結盟立法院的同路人就可以用民主來破壞台灣的民主他是現在進行式所以袁教授所說的事情在過去一年的國會現場觀察起來一一應驗了下一頁"},{"start":59.165,"end":82.822,"text":"所以袁教授再一次的示警就是這幾天中國將介入台灣的大罷免的行動罷免是跟選舉一樣都是憲法珍貴的人民基本權所以中國過去介入台灣的民主選舉劣跡斑斑那現在會不會也介入台灣的民主人民基本權的另外一個就是罷免呢"},{"start":83.562,"end":102.017,"text":"袁教授所说的中共对台工作领导小组的文件已经批示了要着重分化民进党跟公民霸团的关系要着力在防止大霸们行动中的公民团体的领军人物来进行抹黑因为担心他们未来来参选"},{"start":102.697,"end":123.165,"text":"第三個大罷免進入三階所以中國一直在觀察要用各種認知作戰的宣傳手段從人格上來摧毀這些大罷免的行動就交於梁副主委或是我們次長這邊有任何具體這樣子的一個情資的判斷或者是你們有什麼樣的因應嗎袁紅冰教授所說的這份"},{"start":129.13,"end":144.464,"text":"文件我們並沒有掌握但是如果對岸想要做這些事情我是一點都不驚訝所以有沒有這些文件我覺得這些事情都是"},{"start":145.851,"end":170.747,"text":"都是對岸會想要試圖去做的那法務部有另外的什麼樣的情資我們看下一頁 我讓次長回答這一頁我一直認為就像剛剛梁副主委所說的不管文件的真實具體與否但是以中國過去介入民主選舉的這些作為來講未來介入罷免也應當讓不足為奇"},{"start":171.647,"end":176.05,"text":"法務部過去呢我在司法法治委員會你們針對整個選舉作為選舉的舉行會有境外資金借選會有網路選舉賭盤會有認知作戰操作訊息干擾等等你們都有專案會去偵辦會去啟動那我就交於次長那這一次如果在未來的罷免從二階到三階法務部也應當來啟動一個類似民主選舉的必要的作為是嗎"},{"start":200.53,"end":213.974,"text":"我想這個因為現行的這個嫌霸法跟這個反滲透法都有相關的這個法則的條文那麼各檢察機關都會以法來辦理那我也建議我們會待會去請檢察機關來過去我們對於民主選舉的舉行所啟動的所有不管反會選啦反賭盤啦這些都要做"},{"start":221.916,"end":250.569,"text":"反境外的资金各种借选方式未来在罢免的民主的这些人民基本权利行使过程法务部也要依法行政那今天的主题呢要修国安法非常遗憾今天我们看在野党的多数委员也都说支持国安反共谍渗透可到目前为止提出来的国安法的修正案里头九个版本都是民进党委员所提的"},{"start":251.289,"end":275.274,"text":"那我个人所看了这总共的六个条文我认为它影响的层面广泛为大内容方向我都可以支持但我认为还要比严谨更严谨内容再严密要周全再周全这应当也是行政部门未来不管有没有院版我们都启动多元扩大的对话下一页"},{"start":276.209,"end":299.939,"text":"那過去法務部針對整個共諜滲透有很多你們做的譬如說在產業界的防止科技掏空那也有防止借選滲透還有防止發展組織利誘軍人在軍人的部分今天最新的有兩件我要就教於您一個就是今天周刊所說的透過黑幫的滲透這件事情次長要不要簡單說明"},{"start":301.837,"end":329.758,"text":"好 謝謝因為這個他應該是在我們到這邊之後才出來的新聞那我想簡單就這個議題事實上應該也也在台灣這個現象我們觀察到很久了那我們也會責成我們的檢察機關依法來查查只要有違反國安法或反滲透法相關的這個規定我們都依法來檢查要強化查查因為如果就週刊的報導他不只買通黑道未來可能不管在平時對於台灣社會的滋擾跟在戰時透過黑幫"},{"start":332.815,"end":345.13,"text":"來打擊台灣的安全這絕對不容小覷另外一個就是國會的被滲透的事件下一頁在立黨委員一直在帶風向說共諜都在民進黨是這樣嗎2020年立委陳淑慧前助理來"},{"start":350.902,"end":372.517,"text":"被判了徒刑因為涉犯共諜案 國民黨的2024年國民黨的李尚典 郭沛君替鄭天才委員助選免費交代附中旅遊也被判刑了 國民黨的民眾黨的桃園黨部發言人馬志威呢受中國資助百萬來選立委而且他拿到的是國會的中央各部會國會聯絡名冊賣給中國也被判刑八個月 這民眾黨的"},{"start":377.02,"end":394.51,"text":"那民進黨我們當然很遺憾尤其是前院長的幕僚也目前要偵辦絕對不容寬待但是不要誤帶風向什麼共諜都在民進黨我們就事實論事實只要是共諜都不允許都要查辦下一頁"},{"start":395.57,"end":417.491,"text":"立法院2024年的年度代表字是匪哦真是讓人匪夷所思但是我們要審慎因應最後一個問題下一頁因為國安漏洞如果出現在國會目前公部門不管是調查局幫忙做的公務人員的一般查核或者是特殊查核或是可能考試院有幫忙協助拒絕的部分"},{"start":418.392,"end":431.565,"text":"現在我們正在研議在國會端對於立委對於立院的職員工對於國會助理能不能夠參照公務部門有任何查核或拒絕的機制呢可以給我們什麼樣的建議這個目前我們也在研議修法當中那你們會提出修但是這次可能是立法院的內規法"},{"start":443.322,"end":457.929,"text":"好,我在这里说,我期待法务部就你们研修的部分提供给立法院,然后民进党团会启动我们国会改革2.0,也就是以国安的部分来做立法院无法内规的修订下页。"},{"start":458.929,"end":474.376,"text":"所以說藍白如果不做連附中登載這件事情藍白都不做民進黨團會先行就教於梁副主委民進黨團預計我們要針對立委以及助理附中的公開登載揭露"},{"start":474.876,"end":490.057,"text":"我們的做法朝向簽同意書朝向主動揭露附中的資訊包括立委跟助理喔還有達到事前報備事後報告如果民進黨團演繹這樣子我們在演繹當中陸委會是不是樂見或是給我們更正向的建議"},{"start":491.26,"end":515.973,"text":"我們陸委會正在研議相關的修法我們現在目前是傾向把立委直接放進去也就是沈伯陽一直被擋的案子那但是助理的部分因為我想大家都知道這個生態如果你要規範你只能規範公費助理但是一旦規範下去的話很多公費助理就會變成自費助理"},{"start":517.434,"end":535.727,"text":"所以這個規範其實不是很有效所以我個人是建議說直接規範立委就好了當然就政府的法案可能規範立委是優先更何況現在已經連立委的附中登載就被擋了363次"},{"start":537.228,"end":551.561,"text":"但是我在這裡也擴大後續會再就教於各位我們民進黨團會先行我們自己先來做黨團內部的包括立委跟助理的這些揭露的作為也許我相信民進黨的委員們公費助理跟自費助理我們受到的嚴謹"},{"start":556.085,"end":576.798,"text":"我们的自我要求都是一样高那刚刚黄次长说的正在研议对于国会的反共谍渗透有哪些法规法案民进党团非常愿意我们一起来共商讨论毕竟保密防谍共谍不应当存在任何地方包括立法院不好意思占用时间我们一起努力谢谢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":796,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（11時6分）謝謝主席，國家安全很重要，只有4分鐘，顯然不夠，我爭取多一點點時間，謝謝。有請黃次長跟梁副主委。"],["主席：好，請黃次長跟副主委。"],["黃次長世杰：委員好。"],["吳委員思瑤：我把握時間有兩個主題，第一個有介選就會有介罷，也就是中共對於臺灣的民主選舉或是民主罷免，我們有沒有什麼超前部署的因應防範？第二個，我回到國安法，立法院不應當是局外人。","袁紅冰教授一再地警示著，去年他很早就揭示習近平指示戰場就在立法院，中共只要鎖定結盟立法院的同路人，就可以用民主來破壞臺灣的民主，它是現在進行式，所以袁教授所說的事情，在過去一年的國會現場觀察起來，一一應驗了。所以這幾天袁教授再一次地示警，中國將介入臺灣的大罷免行動，罷免是跟選舉一樣都是憲法珍貴的人民基本權，所以中國過去介入臺灣的民主選舉劣跡斑斑，現在會不會也介入另外一個臺灣民主的人民基本權就是罷免呢？袁教授所說的中共對臺工作領導小組的文件已經批示了，要著重分化民進黨跟公民罷團的關係；要著力在抹黑大罷免行動中公民團體的領軍人物，因為擔心他們未來參選；第三個，大罷免進入三階，所以中國一直在觀察，要用各種認知作戰的宣傳手段，從人格上來摧毀這些大罷免的行動。就教於梁副主委或是我們次長這邊有任何具體的情資判斷，或者是你們有什麼樣的因應嗎？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：袁紅冰教授所說的這份文件我們並沒有掌握，但是如果對岸想要做這些事情，我是一點都不驚訝。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以也極有可能。"],["梁副主任委員文傑：無論有沒有這些文件，我覺得這些事情都是對岸會想要試圖去做的。"],["吳委員思瑤：法務部另外有什麼樣的情資？我們看下一頁，我讓次長回答這一頁。我一直認為，就像剛剛梁副主委所說的，不管文件的真實具體與否，但是以中國過去介入民主選舉的這些作為來講，未來介入罷免也應當不足為奇。過去我在司法及法制委員會，法務部針對整個選舉舉行會有的境外資金介選、網路選舉賭盤、認知作戰、操作訊息干擾等等，你們都有專案會去偵辦、會去啟動。我就教於次長，這一次在未來的罷免，從二階到三階，法務部也應當啟動一個類似民主選舉的必要作為，是嗎？"],["黃次長世杰：因為現行的選罷法跟反滲透法都有相關的罰則條文，各檢察機關就會依法來辦理，委員的建議我們會帶回去請檢察機關處理。"],["吳委員思瑤：過去我們對於舉行民主選舉所啟動的所有方式，不管反賄選啦、反賭盤啦，這些都要做，包含反境外資金等各種介選方式，未來在這些罷免的、民主的人民基本權利行使過程，法務部也要依法行政。","今天的主題是要修國安法，非常遺憾，今天我們看在野黨的多數委員也都說支持國安、反共諜滲透，可到目前為止在提出來的國安法修正案裡頭，9個版本都是民進黨委員所提的，我個人看了這總共6個條文，我認為它影響的層面廣、範圍大，內容方向我都可以支持，但我認為還要比嚴謹更嚴謹，內容研議要周全再周全，這應當也是行政部門未來不管有沒有院版，我們都啟動多元、擴大的對話。","過去法務部針對整個共諜滲透做了很多，譬如說在產業界的防止科技掏空，也有防止介選滲透，還有防止發展組織、利誘軍人，在軍人的部分。今天最新的有2件我要就教於您，一個就是今天週刊所說的透過黑幫滲透，這件事情次長要不要簡單說明？"],["黃次長世杰：好，謝謝，因為它應該是在我們到這邊之後才出來的新聞，我想簡單就這個議題……事實上我們也在臺灣觀察到這個現象很久了，我們也會責成我們的檢察機關依法來查察，只要有違反國安法或反滲透法相關的規定，我們都會依法來嚴查。"],["吳委員思瑤：要強化查察，因為如果就週刊的報導，他不只買通黑道，未來可能不管在平時對於臺灣社會的滋擾，跟在戰時透過黑幫來打擊臺灣的安全，這絕對不容小覷。","另外一個就是國會被滲透的事件，在野黨委員一直在帶風向，說共諜都在民進黨，是這樣嗎？2020年立委陳淑慧前助理被判了徒刑，因為涉犯共諜案，國民黨的；2024年，國民黨的李尚典、郭佩金替鄭天財委員助選，免費招待赴中旅遊，也被判刑了，國民黨的；民眾黨的桃園黨部發言人馬治薇受中國資助百萬來選立委，而且他將中央各部會國會聯絡名冊賣給中國，也被判刑8個月，這民眾黨的；民進黨，我們當然很遺憾，游錫堃前院長的幕僚目前也要偵辦，絕對不容寬貸。但是不要誤帶風向，什麼共諜都在民進黨，我們就事實論事實，只要是共諜都不允許、都要查辦！","立法院2024年的年度代表字是「匪」，真是讓人匪夷所思，但是我們要審慎因應。最後一個問題，如果國安漏洞出現在國會，目前公部門不管是調查局幫忙做的公務人員一般查核或者是特殊查核，或是考試院有幫忙協助具結的部分，現在我們正在研議，在國會端對於立委、對於立院的職員工、對於國會助理能不能夠參照公務部門有任何查核或具結的機制，可以給我們什麼樣的建議？"],["黃次長世杰：目前我們也在研議修法當中。"],["吳委員思瑤：那你們會提出修……但這可能是立法院的內規法，好，我在這裡說，我期待法務部就你們研修的部分提供給立法院，然後民進黨團會啟動我們國會改革2.0，也就是以國安的部分來做立法院五法內規的修訂。","所以說藍白如果不做，連赴中登載這件事情藍白都不做，民進黨團會先行。就教於梁副主委，民進黨團預計我們要針對立委以及助理赴中公開登載揭露，我們的作法朝向簽同意書、朝向主動揭露赴中的資訊，包括立委跟助理，還有達到事前報備、事後報告，如果民進黨團研議這樣子，我們正在研議當中，陸委會是不是樂見或是給予我們更正向的建議？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：我們陸委會正在研議相關的修法，我們目前是傾向把立委直接放進去。"],["吳委員思瑤：是，也就是沈伯洋一直被擋的案子。"],["梁副主任委員文傑：對，但是助理的部分，因為我想大家都知道這個生態，如果你要規範，你只能規範公費助理。"],["吳委員思瑤：對，助理反而是漏洞。"],["梁副主任委員文傑：但是一旦規範下去的話，很多公費助理就會變成自費助理，所以這個規範其實不是很有效，所以我個人是建議直接規範立委就好了。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，當然就政府的法案來講，可能規範立委是優先，更何況現在已經連立委的赴中登載就被擋了363次，但是我在這裡也擴大……後續會再就教於各位，我們民進黨團會先行，我們自己先來做黨團內部的，包括立委跟助理的這些揭露的作為，我相信民進黨的委員們、公費助理跟自費助理，我們受到的嚴謹、我們的自我要求都是一樣高，剛剛黃次長說的正在研議對於國會的反共諜滲透有哪些法規、法案，民進黨團非常願意，我們一起來共商討論，畢竟保密防諜……共諜不應當存在任何地方，包括立法院，不好意思占用時間，我們一起努力，謝謝。"],["主席：邱志偉、邱志偉，邱志偉委員不在。","林楚茵、林楚茵，林楚茵委員不在。","蘇清泉、蘇清泉，蘇清泉委員不在。","蔡易餘、蔡易餘，蔡易餘委員不在。","我們請牛煦庭委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-15","speakers":["張宏陸","黃捷","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","蘇巧慧","李柏毅","高金素梅","王美惠","黃國昌","吳琪銘","許宇甄","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","徐欣瑩","吳宗憲","吳思瑤","牛煦庭","楊瓊瓔","王鴻薇","林楚茵","黃建賓","丁學忠"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-01"],"gazette_id":"1144501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144501_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員陳冠廷等21人擬具「國家安全法第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員\n沈伯洋等17人擬具「國家安全法第十三條及第十三條之一條文修正草案」案；三、審查委員陳冠\n廷等23人擬具「國家安全法第四條及第八條條文修正草案」案；四、審查委員邱志偉等16人擬具\n「國家安全法第三條條文修正草案」案；五、審查委員沈伯洋等20人擬具「國家安全法第二條及\n第七條條文修正草案」案；六、審查委員王定宇等16人擬具「國家安全法第二條及第七條條文修\n正草案」案；七、審查委員沈伯洋等20人擬具「國家安全法第三條、第八條及第十八條條文修正\n草案」案；八、審查委員陳冠廷等19人擬具「國家安全法增訂第十九條之一條文草案」案；九、\n審查委員黃捷等16人擬具「國家安全法第二條、第三條及第七條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1144501_00001"}}}