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639.866, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 639.866, \"end\": 639.986, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 639.986, \"end\": 640.126, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 640.126, \"end\": 640.146, \"score\": 0.006}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,849 --> 00:00:03,371\n謝謝主席有請書發部黃部長好書發部黃部長\n\n2\n00:00:12,098 --> 00:00:39,270\n部長好大家都很關心如何來提升媒體的收入那今天我們也看到交通跟教文聯席排了這個新聞媒體與數位平台溢價的專報那我這樣子說如果我們去看目前國際所做的大概有幾種模式像著作臨接權強制溢價\n\n3\n00:00:40,490 --> 00:01:03,322\n或者平台課稅那如果我國要立法部長您傾向哪一種模式報告委員那個我們沒有特定立場但是就是跟大院來商量不過這邊因為我們現在看到因為過去我剛有強調因為過去這兩年一方面是技術的演變一方面是這個所謂的國際形勢的演變變成每一個法都產生一些問題\n\n4\n00:01:04,463 --> 00:01:19,949\n那我們看到幾個像強制溢價權就是主要是澳洲跟加拿大那目前因為這個目前看起來是不成功的至少有些報導是這樣那歐盟這個也有遇到一些問題就是他們的著作權著作臨接權\n\n5\n00:01:20,729 --> 00:01:48,471\n那共榮基金就是這是一個在台灣目前有在進行的所以我覺得就是說但一個是我們在立法上我們還需要一起觀察就是說現在只想說在這個時間點可能需要再做進一步研究我們擔心的是說太草率立法會造成不是幫助是造成傷害所以我覺得這個可以再稍微等一下但是呢我們同時繼續進行這方面的研究尤其是對於強制溢價主要是看澳洲後續\n\n6\n00:01:49,372 --> 00:02:05,527\n主要還是一樣除了Google跟Meta這兩家公司在這邊他下一步會怎麼做目前這兩家公司Meta是完全不配合那Google是不是會再進行下一步跟澳洲有些合作我們也還在觀察中所以我想如果在這個時間點\n\n7\n00:02:07,048 --> 00:02:33,189\n加上國際情勢非常不清楚的情況之下未來當然我們希望盡快把這個問題能夠確定然後我們當然要趕快立法來解決這個讓所謂的新聞油價能夠落實不過在這個時間點的確這三個問題三個法都有問題所以就說草率的立法不見得是對新聞媒體是有幫助\n\n8\n00:02:33,909 --> 00:02:59,232\n好謝謝部長第一個您就是肯定新聞有價第二個呢您也希望禁訴立法那第三個呢目前要採用哪一種模式我想你目前也講不出來嘛但是我從數位發展部今天的專報我有看到您剛才在其他委員質詢過程中您也有提到像以澳洲來講\n\n9\n00:03:01,072 --> 00:03:14,032\nGoogle或Meta他們呢原本是主動的跟幾十家的媒體達成協議也預計要每一年提供2億澳幣也就是大約台幣40億的資金可是\n\n10\n00:03:16,716 --> 00:03:34,571\n他Meta你講到Meta比較強硬他在2024年3月就改變政策宣布不再與新聞出版商續約未來呢也不想要再展開這樣的商業合作模式那加拿大呢他也是在前年2023通過線上新聞法\n\n11\n00:03:38,194 --> 00:04:05,603\n可是他也願意2024年起每年捐贈1億加幣大約台幣23億可是他也是相對的這個Meta為了規避強制溢價您剛剛一直提到的強制溢價選擇全面封鎖新聞的內容導致新聞媒體的網路流量反而明顯的下降對那些中小型的媒體衝擊最為嚴重所以呢英國經濟學人就說啦\n\n12\n00:04:06,283 --> 00:04:14,035\n就是我們原本想要透過立法輔助新聞產業結果反而造成傷害因你看到底是哪裡做錯了\n\n13\n00:04:16,308 --> 00:04:37,761\n主要還是在於說因為我們主要針對剛剛講就是Google跟Meta這兩個公司嘛那以Meta來講它其實很簡單它就是我的流量裡面屬於新聞的流量只有不到3%我當然就因為這樣關係所以他們就比較沒有那個意願來配合所以我想主要還是回到市場面也就是說自我這個東西它\n\n14\n00:04:38,681 --> 00:05:07,006\n他來做這個事情會增加他的營收或增加的流量他就會考慮所以還是回到市場的基本面就是這個東西到底意思就是其實回到市場來看沒有那麼理想市場的話就是說這兩個公司來配合還是要回到市場那當然就是說我們當然是希望我們能夠經過立法讓他們願意來配合那同時也幫助共榮的意思就是說同時幫助這個平台公司跟請教部長\n\n15\n00:05:08,166 --> 00:05:25,233\n那我們目前國內的平台像GoogleMeta他們對於我們要立這個法他們的立場是怎麼樣他們的立場基本上都有表示反對啦那細節是不是那個因為很多談判是我們次長去談的來次長\n\n16\n00:05:27,504 --> 00:05:53,289\n是目前Google跟Meta都表達反對的立場我們都有詢問過他們他們也經過美國商會沒關係我就是要聽而已就知道他們的立場因為現在全世界有一種風險叫做川普風險那我不曉得說當川普上任之後他們也發表十項不公平數位貿易慣例\n\n17\n00:05:55,089 --> 00:06:18,305\n那指稱剛才提到的澳洲也好加拿大也好那些在內的媒體溢價立法已經損害到美國經濟的利益那我不曉得說當美國政府認為對他們的GoogleMeta結果別的國家呢造成他們的潛在的成本會增加那麼多那我請教一下\n\n18\n00:06:19,346 --> 00:06:41,977\n我們有沒有評估過如果立這樣的法會不會引發美國報復性關稅措施我個人的判斷是很有可能因為他已經對澳洲加拿大有提出這樣的一個要求所以我想任何一個新的要求新的這樣的立法出現美國政府一定會採取相同的態度來對待所以你們評估可能是會的\n\n19\n00:06:43,098 --> 00:06:57,937\n好但是重點我們還是要提升媒體收入啊新聞有價那食物上我想很多問題像包括如何分潤是用流量分使用量還是要設定集聚還是有其他更好的方法\n\n20\n00:06:58,658 --> 00:07:26,180\n那當平台跟媒體談判的時候這種包裹的談判到底是要一季分一年分那對媒體到底有沒有利那到底是對大型媒體有利那對獨立媒體有沒有利還是大型媒體根本不屑因為他的分潤金佔營業的收入根本就不高那甚至是那些獨立媒體他的流量本來就不高那他的分潤呢他算起來也根本沒有什麼\n\n21\n00:07:27,340 --> 00:07:52,715\n那到底我這樣子講的意思說有沒有評估如果法案通過之後對於這種不同規模的媒體大型小型不同性質的媒體紙本啊電子啊獨立啊Daily新聞深度影音有沒有去做這些細微不同程度的影響的分析有沒有去針對這些不同類型的規模的這些媒體有沒有問過他們對這個法案的意願有沒有\n\n22\n00:07:57,794 --> 00:08:19,430\n跟委員報告我們在過去這一年的期間我們不斷的跟媒體還有跟各方那他們的看法怎麼樣對那現在其實最大的問題就是流量那以這個META來講的話這是去年11月我到META去拜訪那個加拿大政府的時候他們秀給我看了一個截圖就是META因為在加拿大通過那個媒體議價法以後呢\n\n23\n00:08:19,830 --> 00:08:47,697\n他就在上面把所有新聞連結通通block掉了所以我在加拿大我嘗試連線CNN或者是連線那個加拿大當地的媒體上面都會顯示說在加拿大你不能看到這些任何的新聞媒體所以META的回應方式就是讓說根本就沒有流量所以我們要用流量來分潤的話這個已經是不可行的這是他一個商業行為他就選擇他退出他就不再提供任何的那個媒體\n\n24\n00:08:50,279 --> 00:09:04,777\n因為主席站起來我其實只是說大家都很關心但是我們也很想知道到底各個媒體他們的想法是什麼甚至是到底有沒有對新聞媒體去做定義了\n\n25\n00:09:06,078 --> 00:09:22,866\n像有的像端傳媒它只是新加坡註冊在台灣的分公司那像報導者它是基金會成立的新聞機構那又或者像一些自媒體又或者是公管集團其實對於定義這件事誰能夠被納入誰能夠談判誰能夠分潤\n\n26\n00:09:26,368 --> 00:09:52,579\n像我們談的這些都是過去我們看到平台無償使用新聞那剛才部長您有提到現在的變化就是因為AI也是無償使用新聞那到底他甚至有一些媒體去檢視之後發現checkGPT的流量還最高高於平均那他大量使用媒體的資料來擴充他自己的資料庫那沒有獲得授權甚至付費\n\n27\n00:09:53,919 --> 00:10:18,868\n那納入法規要怎麼研議或者人工智慧法那邊要怎麼處理所以我想你們也沒有版本但是又一直說支持新聞有價想要提升媒體的收入到底有沒有辦過公聽會我們全部都不得而知那我想今天排這個專報就是希望我們要審慎的評估討論那希望把這件事情做好\n\n28\n00:10:20,309 --> 00:10:40,146\n謝謝委員建議我們會持續會開公聽會嗎我們會持續跟媒體溝通會公聽會公聽會或是以訪談或是各樣的會議形式我們會進行各種會議形式不要公聽會公聽會也是公聽會就是立法院公聽會嗎這個我們或者各地的分區座談都可以分區座談我們會繼續好繼續努力謝謝部長謝謝主席好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n849\t3371\t謝謝主席 有請書發部黃部長好 書發部黃部長\n12098\t39270\t部長好 大家都很關心如何來提升媒體的收入那今天我們也看到交通跟教文聯席排了這個新聞媒體與數位平台溢價的專報那我這樣子說 如果我們去看目前國際所做的大概有幾種模式像著作臨接權 強制溢價\n40490\t63322\t或者平台課稅那如果我國要立法部長您傾向哪一種模式報告委員那個我們沒有特定立場但是就是跟大院來商量不過這邊因為我們現在看到因為過去我剛有強調因為過去這兩年一方面是技術的演變一方面是這個所謂的國際形勢的演變變成每一個法都產生一些問題\n64463\t79949\t那我們看到幾個像強制溢價權就是主要是澳洲跟加拿大那目前因為這個目前看起來是不成功的至少有些報導是這樣那歐盟這個也有遇到一些問題就是他們的著作權著作臨接權\n80729\t108471\t那共榮基金就是這是一個在台灣目前有在進行的所以我覺得就是說但一個是我們在立法上我們還需要一起觀察就是說現在只想說在這個時間點可能需要再做進一步研究我們擔心的是說太草率立法會造成不是幫助是造成傷害所以我覺得這個可以再稍微等一下但是呢我們同時繼續進行這方面的研究尤其是對於強制溢價主要是看澳洲後續\n109372\t125527\t主要還是一樣除了Google跟Meta這兩家公司在這邊他下一步會怎麼做目前這兩家公司Meta是完全不配合那Google是不是會再進行下一步跟澳洲有些合作我們也還在觀察中所以我想如果在這個時間點\n127048\t153189\t加上國際情勢非常不清楚的情況之下未來當然我們希望盡快把這個問題能夠確定然後我們當然要趕快立法來解決這個讓所謂的新聞油價能夠落實不過在這個時間點的確這三個問題三個法都有問題所以就說草率的立法不見得是對新聞媒體是有幫助\n153909\t179232\t好 謝謝部長第一個您就是肯定新聞有價第二個呢 您也希望禁訴立法那第三個呢 目前要採用哪一種模式我想你目前也講不出來嘛但是我從數位發展部今天的專報我有看到您剛才在其他委員質詢過程中 您也有提到像以澳洲來講\n181072\t194032\tGoogle或Meta他們呢原本是主動的跟幾十家的媒體達成協議也預計要每一年提供2億澳幣也就是大約台幣40億的資金可是\n196716\t214571\t他Meta你講到Meta比較強硬他在2024年3月就改變政策宣布不再與新聞出版商續約未來呢也不想要再展開這樣的商業合作模式那加拿大呢他也是在前年2023通過線上新聞法\n218194\t245603\t可是他也願意2024年起每年捐贈1億加幣大約台幣23億可是他也是相對的這個Meta為了規避強制溢價您剛剛一直提到的強制溢價選擇全面封鎖新聞的內容導致新聞媒體的網路流量反而明顯的下降對那些中小型的媒體衝擊最為嚴重所以呢英國經濟學人就說啦\n246283\t254035\t就是我們原本想要透過立法輔助新聞產業結果反而造成傷害因你看到底是哪裡做錯了\n256308\t277761\t主要還是在於說因為我們主要針對剛剛講就是Google跟Meta這兩個公司嘛那以Meta來講它其實很簡單它就是我的流量裡面屬於新聞的流量只有不到3%我當然就因為這樣關係所以他們就比較沒有那個意願來配合所以我想主要還是回到市場面也就是說自我這個東西它\n278681\t307006\t他來做這個事情會增加他的營收或增加的流量他就會考慮所以還是回到市場的基本面就是這個東西到底意思就是其實回到市場來看沒有那麼理想市場的話就是說這兩個公司來配合還是要回到市場那當然就是說我們當然是希望我們能夠經過立法讓他們願意來配合那同時也幫助共榮的意思就是說同時幫助這個平台公司跟請教部長\n308166\t325233\t那我們目前國內的平台像Google Meta他們對於我們要立這個法他們的立場是怎麼樣他們的立場基本上都有表示反對啦那細節是不是那個因為很多談判是我們次長去談的來次長\n327504\t353289\t是 目前Google跟Meta都表達反對的立場我們都有詢問過他們 他們也經過美國商會沒關係 我就是要聽而已 就知道他們的立場因為現在 全世界有一種風險 叫做川普風險那我不曉得說 當川普上任之後他們也發表十項不公平數位貿易慣例\n355089\t378305\t那指稱剛才提到的澳洲也好加拿大也好那些在內的媒體溢價立法已經損害到美國經濟的利益那我不曉得說當美國政府認為對他們的Google Meta結果別的國家呢造成他們的潛在的成本會增加那麼多那我請教一下\n379346\t401977\t我們有沒有評估過如果立這樣的法會不會引發美國報復性關稅措施我個人的判斷是很有可能因為他已經對澳洲加拿大有提出這樣的一個要求所以我想任何一個新的要求新的這樣的立法出現美國政府一定會採取相同的態度來對待所以你們評估可能是會的\n403098\t417937\t好 但是重點我們還是要提升媒體收入啊新聞有價那食物上我想很多問題像包括如何分潤是用流量分 使用量還是要設定集聚還是有其他更好的方法\n418658\t446180\t那當平台跟媒體談判的時候這種包裹的談判到底是要一季分一年分那對媒體到底有沒有利那到底是對大型媒體有利那對獨立媒體有沒有利還是大型媒體根本不屑因為他的分潤金佔營業的收入根本就不高那甚至是那些獨立媒體他的流量本來就不高那他的分潤呢他算起來也根本沒有什麼\n447340\t472715\t那到底我這樣子講的意思說有沒有評估如果法案通過之後對於這種不同規模的媒體大型小型不同性質的媒體 紙本啊 電子啊 獨立啊 Daily新聞深度影音有沒有去做這些細微不同程度的影響的分析有沒有去針對這些不同類型的規模的這些媒體有沒有問過他們對這個法案的意願 有沒有\n477794\t499430\t跟委員報告我們在過去這一年的期間我們不斷的跟媒體還有跟各方那他們的看法怎麼樣對那現在其實最大的問題就是流量那以這個META來講的話這是去年11月我到META去拜訪那個加拿大政府的時候他們秀給我看了一個截圖就是META因為在加拿大通過那個媒體議價法以後呢\n499830\t527697\t他就在上面把所有新聞連結通通block掉了所以我在加拿大我嘗試連線CNN或者是連線那個加拿大當地的媒體上面都會顯示說在加拿大你不能看到這些任何的新聞媒體所以META的回應方式就是讓說根本就沒有流量所以我們要用流量來分潤的話這個已經是不可行的這是他一個商業行為他就選擇他退出他就不再提供任何的那個媒體\n530279\t544777\t因為主席站起來我其實只是說大家都很關心但是我們也很想知道到底各個媒體他們的想法是什麼甚至是到底有沒有對新聞媒體去做定義了\n546078\t562866\t像有的像端傳媒它只是新加坡註冊在台灣的分公司那像報導者它是基金會成立的新聞機構那又或者像一些自媒體又或者是公管集團其實對於定義這件事誰能夠被納入誰能夠談判 誰能夠分潤\n566368\t592579\t像我們談的這些都是過去我們看到平台無償使用新聞那剛才部長您有提到現在的變化就是因為AI也是無償使用新聞那到底他甚至有一些媒體去檢視之後發現checkGPT的流量還最高高於平均那他大量使用媒體的資料來擴充他自己的資料庫那沒有獲得授權甚至付費\n593919\t618868\t那納入法規要怎麼研議或者人工智慧法那邊要怎麼處理所以我想你們也沒有版本但是又一直說支持新聞有價想要提升媒體的收入到底有沒有辦過公聽會我們全部都不得而知那我想今天排這個專報就是希望我們要審慎的評估討論那希望把這件事情做好\n620309\t640146\t謝謝委員建議我們會持續會開公聽會嗎我們會持續跟媒體溝通會公聽會公聽會或是以訪談或是各樣的會議形式我們會進行各種會議形式不要公聽會公聽會也是公聽會就是立法院公聽會嗎這個我們或者各地的分區座談都可以分區座談我們會繼續好繼續努力謝謝部長謝謝主席好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請書發部黃部長好 書發部黃部長\n部長好 大家都很關心如何來提升媒體的收入那今天我們也看到交通跟教文聯席排了這個新聞媒體與數位平台溢價的專報那我這樣子說 如果我們去看目前國際所做的大概有幾種模式像著作臨接權 強制溢價\n或者平台課稅那如果我國要立法部長您傾向哪一種模式報告委員那個我們沒有特定立場但是就是跟大院來商量不過這邊因為我們現在看到因為過去我剛有強調因為過去這兩年一方面是技術的演變一方面是這個所謂的國際形勢的演變變成每一個法都產生一些問題\n那我們看到幾個像強制溢價權就是主要是澳洲跟加拿大那目前因為這個目前看起來是不成功的至少有些報導是這樣那歐盟這個也有遇到一些問題就是他們的著作權著作臨接權\n那共榮基金就是這是一個在台灣目前有在進行的所以我覺得就是說但一個是我們在立法上我們還需要一起觀察就是說現在只想說在這個時間點可能需要再做進一步研究我們擔心的是說太草率立法會造成不是幫助是造成傷害所以我覺得這個可以再稍微等一下但是呢我們同時繼續進行這方面的研究尤其是對於強制溢價主要是看澳洲後續\n主要還是一樣除了Google跟Meta這兩家公司在這邊他下一步會怎麼做目前這兩家公司Meta是完全不配合那Google是不是會再進行下一步跟澳洲有些合作我們也還在觀察中所以我想如果在這個時間點\n加上國際情勢非常不清楚的情況之下未來當然我們希望盡快把這個問題能夠確定然後我們當然要趕快立法來解決這個讓所謂的新聞油價能夠落實不過在這個時間點的確這三個問題三個法都有問題所以就說草率的立法不見得是對新聞媒體是有幫助\n好 謝謝部長第一個您就是肯定新聞有價第二個呢 您也希望禁訴立法那第三個呢 目前要採用哪一種模式我想你目前也講不出來嘛但是我從數位發展部今天的專報我有看到您剛才在其他委員質詢過程中 您也有提到像以澳洲來講\nGoogle或Meta他們呢原本是主動的跟幾十家的媒體達成協議也預計要每一年提供2億澳幣也就是大約台幣40億的資金可是\n他Meta你講到Meta比較強硬他在2024年3月就改變政策宣布不再與新聞出版商續約未來呢也不想要再展開這樣的商業合作模式那加拿大呢他也是在前年2023通過線上新聞法\n可是他也願意2024年起每年捐贈1億加幣大約台幣23億可是他也是相對的這個Meta為了規避強制溢價您剛剛一直提到的強制溢價選擇全面封鎖新聞的內容導致新聞媒體的網路流量反而明顯的下降對那些中小型的媒體衝擊最為嚴重所以呢英國經濟學人就說啦\n就是我們原本想要透過立法輔助新聞產業結果反而造成傷害因你看到底是哪裡做錯了\n主要還是在於說因為我們主要針對剛剛講就是Google跟Meta這兩個公司嘛那以Meta來講它其實很簡單它就是我的流量裡面屬於新聞的流量只有不到3%我當然就因為這樣關係所以他們就比較沒有那個意願來配合所以我想主要還是回到市場面也就是說自我這個東西它\n他來做這個事情會增加他的營收或增加的流量他就會考慮所以還是回到市場的基本面就是這個東西到底意思就是其實回到市場來看沒有那麼理想市場的話就是說這兩個公司來配合還是要回到市場那當然就是說我們當然是希望我們能夠經過立法讓他們願意來配合那同時也幫助共榮的意思就是說同時幫助這個平台公司跟請教部長\n那我們目前國內的平台像Google Meta他們對於我們要立這個法他們的立場是怎麼樣他們的立場基本上都有表示反對啦那細節是不是那個因為很多談判是我們次長去談的來次長\n是 目前Google跟Meta都表達反對的立場我們都有詢問過他們 他們也經過美國商會沒關係 我就是要聽而已 就知道他們的立場因為現在 全世界有一種風險 叫做川普風險那我不曉得說 當川普上任之後他們也發表十項不公平數位貿易慣例\n那指稱剛才提到的澳洲也好加拿大也好那些在內的媒體溢價立法已經損害到美國經濟的利益那我不曉得說當美國政府認為對他們的Google Meta結果別的國家呢造成他們的潛在的成本會增加那麼多那我請教一下\n我們有沒有評估過如果立這樣的法會不會引發美國報復性關稅措施我個人的判斷是很有可能因為他已經對澳洲加拿大有提出這樣的一個要求所以我想任何一個新的要求新的這樣的立法出現美國政府一定會採取相同的態度來對待所以你們評估可能是會的\n好 但是重點我們還是要提升媒體收入啊新聞有價那食物上我想很多問題像包括如何分潤是用流量分 使用量還是要設定集聚還是有其他更好的方法\n那當平台跟媒體談判的時候這種包裹的談判到底是要一季分一年分那對媒體到底有沒有利那到底是對大型媒體有利那對獨立媒體有沒有利還是大型媒體根本不屑因為他的分潤金佔營業的收入根本就不高那甚至是那些獨立媒體他的流量本來就不高那他的分潤呢他算起來也根本沒有什麼\n那到底我這樣子講的意思說有沒有評估如果法案通過之後對於這種不同規模的媒體大型小型不同性質的媒體 紙本啊 電子啊 獨立啊 Daily新聞深度影音有沒有去做這些細微不同程度的影響的分析有沒有去針對這些不同類型的規模的這些媒體有沒有問過他們對這個法案的意願 有沒有\n跟委員報告我們在過去這一年的期間我們不斷的跟媒體還有跟各方那他們的看法怎麼樣對那現在其實最大的問題就是流量那以這個META來講的話這是去年11月我到META去拜訪那個加拿大政府的時候他們秀給我看了一個截圖就是META因為在加拿大通過那個媒體議價法以後呢\n他就在上面把所有新聞連結通通block掉了所以我在加拿大我嘗試連線CNN或者是連線那個加拿大當地的媒體上面都會顯示說在加拿大你不能看到這些任何的新聞媒體所以META的回應方式就是讓說根本就沒有流量所以我們要用流量來分潤的話這個已經是不可行的這是他一個商業行為他就選擇他退出他就不再提供任何的那個媒體\n因為主席站起來我其實只是說大家都很關心但是我們也很想知道到底各個媒體他們的想法是什麼甚至是到底有沒有對新聞媒體去做定義了\n像有的像端傳媒它只是新加坡註冊在台灣的分公司那像報導者它是基金會成立的新聞機構那又或者像一些自媒體又或者是公管集團其實對於定義這件事誰能夠被納入誰能夠談判 誰能夠分潤\n像我們談的這些都是過去我們看到平台無償使用新聞那剛才部長您有提到現在的變化就是因為AI也是無償使用新聞那到底他甚至有一些媒體去檢視之後發現checkGPT的流量還最高高於平均那他大量使用媒體的資料來擴充他自己的資料庫那沒有獲得授權甚至付費\n那納入法規要怎麼研議或者人工智慧法那邊要怎麼處理所以我想你們也沒有版本但是又一直說支持新聞有價想要提升媒體的收入到底有沒有辦過公聽會我們全部都不得而知那我想今天排這個專報就是希望我們要審慎的評估討論那希望把這件事情做好\n謝謝委員建議我們會持續會開公聽會嗎我們會持續跟媒體溝通會公聽會公聽會或是以訪談或是各樣的會議形式我們會進行各種會議形式不要公聽會公聽會也是公聽會就是立法院公聽會嗎這個我們或者各地的分區座談都可以分區座談我們會繼續好繼續努力謝謝部長謝謝主席好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.849 --> 00:03.371\n謝謝主席有請書發部黃部長好書發部黃部長\n\n00:12.098 --> 00:39.270\n部長好大家都很關心如何來提升媒體的收入那今天我們也看到交通跟教文聯席排了這個新聞媒體與數位平台溢價的專報那我這樣子說如果我們去看目前國際所做的大概有幾種模式像著作臨接權強制溢價\n\n00:40.490 --> 01:03.322\n或者平台課稅那如果我國要立法部長您傾向哪一種模式報告委員那個我們沒有特定立場但是就是跟大院來商量不過這邊因為我們現在看到因為過去我剛有強調因為過去這兩年一方面是技術的演變一方面是這個所謂的國際形勢的演變變成每一個法都產生一些問題\n\n01:04.463 --> 01:19.949\n那我們看到幾個像強制溢價權就是主要是澳洲跟加拿大那目前因為這個目前看起來是不成功的至少有些報導是這樣那歐盟這個也有遇到一些問題就是他們的著作權著作臨接權\n\n01:20.729 --> 01:48.471\n那共榮基金就是這是一個在台灣目前有在進行的所以我覺得就是說但一個是我們在立法上我們還需要一起觀察就是說現在只想說在這個時間點可能需要再做進一步研究我們擔心的是說太草率立法會造成不是幫助是造成傷害所以我覺得這個可以再稍微等一下但是呢我們同時繼續進行這方面的研究尤其是對於強制溢價主要是看澳洲後續\n\n01:49.372 --> 02:05.527\n主要還是一樣除了Google跟Meta這兩家公司在這邊他下一步會怎麼做目前這兩家公司Meta是完全不配合那Google是不是會再進行下一步跟澳洲有些合作我們也還在觀察中所以我想如果在這個時間點\n\n02:07.048 --> 02:33.189\n加上國際情勢非常不清楚的情況之下未來當然我們希望盡快把這個問題能夠確定然後我們當然要趕快立法來解決這個讓所謂的新聞油價能夠落實不過在這個時間點的確這三個問題三個法都有問題所以就說草率的立法不見得是對新聞媒體是有幫助\n\n02:33.909 --> 02:59.232\n好謝謝部長第一個您就是肯定新聞有價第二個呢您也希望禁訴立法那第三個呢目前要採用哪一種模式我想你目前也講不出來嘛但是我從數位發展部今天的專報我有看到您剛才在其他委員質詢過程中您也有提到像以澳洲來講\n\n03:01.072 --> 03:14.032\nGoogle或Meta他們呢原本是主動的跟幾十家的媒體達成協議也預計要每一年提供2億澳幣也就是大約台幣40億的資金可是\n\n03:16.716 --> 03:34.571\n他Meta你講到Meta比較強硬他在2024年3月就改變政策宣布不再與新聞出版商續約未來呢也不想要再展開這樣的商業合作模式那加拿大呢他也是在前年2023通過線上新聞法\n\n03:38.194 --> 04:05.603\n可是他也願意2024年起每年捐贈1億加幣大約台幣23億可是他也是相對的這個Meta為了規避強制溢價您剛剛一直提到的強制溢價選擇全面封鎖新聞的內容導致新聞媒體的網路流量反而明顯的下降對那些中小型的媒體衝擊最為嚴重所以呢英國經濟學人就說啦\n\n04:06.283 --> 04:14.035\n就是我們原本想要透過立法輔助新聞產業結果反而造成傷害因你看到底是哪裡做錯了\n\n04:16.308 --> 04:37.761\n主要還是在於說因為我們主要針對剛剛講就是Google跟Meta這兩個公司嘛那以Meta來講它其實很簡單它就是我的流量裡面屬於新聞的流量只有不到3%我當然就因為這樣關係所以他們就比較沒有那個意願來配合所以我想主要還是回到市場面也就是說自我這個東西它\n\n04:38.681 --> 05:07.006\n他來做這個事情會增加他的營收或增加的流量他就會考慮所以還是回到市場的基本面就是這個東西到底意思就是其實回到市場來看沒有那麼理想市場的話就是說這兩個公司來配合還是要回到市場那當然就是說我們當然是希望我們能夠經過立法讓他們願意來配合那同時也幫助共榮的意思就是說同時幫助這個平台公司跟請教部長\n\n05:08.166 --> 05:25.233\n那我們目前國內的平台像GoogleMeta他們對於我們要立這個法他們的立場是怎麼樣他們的立場基本上都有表示反對啦那細節是不是那個因為很多談判是我們次長去談的來次長\n\n05:27.504 --> 05:53.289\n是目前Google跟Meta都表達反對的立場我們都有詢問過他們他們也經過美國商會沒關係我就是要聽而已就知道他們的立場因為現在全世界有一種風險叫做川普風險那我不曉得說當川普上任之後他們也發表十項不公平數位貿易慣例\n\n05:55.089 --> 06:18.305\n那指稱剛才提到的澳洲也好加拿大也好那些在內的媒體溢價立法已經損害到美國經濟的利益那我不曉得說當美國政府認為對他們的GoogleMeta結果別的國家呢造成他們的潛在的成本會增加那麼多那我請教一下\n\n06:19.346 --> 06:41.977\n我們有沒有評估過如果立這樣的法會不會引發美國報復性關稅措施我個人的判斷是很有可能因為他已經對澳洲加拿大有提出這樣的一個要求所以我想任何一個新的要求新的這樣的立法出現美國政府一定會採取相同的態度來對待所以你們評估可能是會的\n\n06:43.098 --> 06:57.937\n好但是重點我們還是要提升媒體收入啊新聞有價那食物上我想很多問題像包括如何分潤是用流量分使用量還是要設定集聚還是有其他更好的方法\n\n06:58.658 --> 07:26.180\n那當平台跟媒體談判的時候這種包裹的談判到底是要一季分一年分那對媒體到底有沒有利那到底是對大型媒體有利那對獨立媒體有沒有利還是大型媒體根本不屑因為他的分潤金佔營業的收入根本就不高那甚至是那些獨立媒體他的流量本來就不高那他的分潤呢他算起來也根本沒有什麼\n\n07:27.340 --> 07:52.715\n那到底我這樣子講的意思說有沒有評估如果法案通過之後對於這種不同規模的媒體大型小型不同性質的媒體紙本啊電子啊獨立啊Daily新聞深度影音有沒有去做這些細微不同程度的影響的分析有沒有去針對這些不同類型的規模的這些媒體有沒有問過他們對這個法案的意願有沒有\n\n07:57.794 --> 08:19.430\n跟委員報告我們在過去這一年的期間我們不斷的跟媒體還有跟各方那他們的看法怎麼樣對那現在其實最大的問題就是流量那以這個META來講的話這是去年11月我到META去拜訪那個加拿大政府的時候他們秀給我看了一個截圖就是META因為在加拿大通過那個媒體議價法以後呢\n\n08:19.830 --> 08:47.697\n他就在上面把所有新聞連結通通block掉了所以我在加拿大我嘗試連線CNN或者是連線那個加拿大當地的媒體上面都會顯示說在加拿大你不能看到這些任何的新聞媒體所以META的回應方式就是讓說根本就沒有流量所以我們要用流量來分潤的話這個已經是不可行的這是他一個商業行為他就選擇他退出他就不再提供任何的那個媒體\n\n08:50.279 --> 09:04.777\n因為主席站起來我其實只是說大家都很關心但是我們也很想知道到底各個媒體他們的想法是什麼甚至是到底有沒有對新聞媒體去做定義了\n\n09:06.078 --> 09:22.866\n像有的像端傳媒它只是新加坡註冊在台灣的分公司那像報導者它是基金會成立的新聞機構那又或者像一些自媒體又或者是公管集團其實對於定義這件事誰能夠被納入誰能夠談判誰能夠分潤\n\n09:26.368 --> 09:52.579\n像我們談的這些都是過去我們看到平台無償使用新聞那剛才部長您有提到現在的變化就是因為AI也是無償使用新聞那到底他甚至有一些媒體去檢視之後發現checkGPT的流量還最高高於平均那他大量使用媒體的資料來擴充他自己的資料庫那沒有獲得授權甚至付費\n\n09:53.919 --> 10:18.868\n那納入法規要怎麼研議或者人工智慧法那邊要怎麼處理所以我想你們也沒有版本但是又一直說支持新聞有價想要提升媒體的收入到底有沒有辦過公聽會我們全部都不得而知那我想今天排這個專報就是希望我們要審慎的評估討論那希望把這件事情做好\n\n10:20.309 --> 10:40.146\n謝謝委員建議我們會持續會開公聽會嗎我們會持續跟媒體溝通會公聽會公聽會或是以訪談或是各樣的會議形式我們會進行各種會議形式不要公聽會公聽會也是公聽會就是立法院公聽會嗎這個我們或者各地的分區座談都可以分區座談我們會繼續好繼續努力謝謝部長謝謝主席好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.849,"end":3.371,"text":"謝謝主席 有請書發部黃部長好 書發部黃部長"},{"start":12.098,"end":39.27,"text":"部長好 大家都很關心如何來提升媒體的收入那今天我們也看到交通跟教文聯席排了這個新聞媒體與數位平台溢價的專報那我這樣子說 如果我們去看目前國際所做的大概有幾種模式像著作臨接權 強制溢價"},{"start":40.49,"end":63.322,"text":"或者平台課稅那如果我國要立法部長您傾向哪一種模式報告委員那個我們沒有特定立場但是就是跟大院來商量不過這邊因為我們現在看到因為過去我剛有強調因為過去這兩年一方面是技術的演變一方面是這個所謂的國際形勢的演變變成每一個法都產生一些問題"},{"start":64.463,"end":79.949,"text":"那我們看到幾個像強制溢價權就是主要是澳洲跟加拿大那目前因為這個目前看起來是不成功的至少有些報導是這樣那歐盟這個也有遇到一些問題就是他們的著作權著作臨接權"},{"start":80.729,"end":108.471,"text":"那共榮基金就是這是一個在台灣目前有在進行的所以我覺得就是說但一個是我們在立法上我們還需要一起觀察就是說現在只想說在這個時間點可能需要再做進一步研究我們擔心的是說太草率立法會造成不是幫助是造成傷害所以我覺得這個可以再稍微等一下但是呢我們同時繼續進行這方面的研究尤其是對於強制溢價主要是看澳洲後續"},{"start":109.372,"end":125.527,"text":"主要還是一樣除了Google跟Meta這兩家公司在這邊他下一步會怎麼做目前這兩家公司Meta是完全不配合那Google是不是會再進行下一步跟澳洲有些合作我們也還在觀察中所以我想如果在這個時間點"},{"start":127.048,"end":153.189,"text":"加上國際情勢非常不清楚的情況之下未來當然我們希望盡快把這個問題能夠確定然後我們當然要趕快立法來解決這個讓所謂的新聞油價能夠落實不過在這個時間點的確這三個問題三個法都有問題所以就說草率的立法不見得是對新聞媒體是有幫助"},{"start":153.909,"end":179.232,"text":"好 謝謝部長第一個您就是肯定新聞有價第二個呢 您也希望禁訴立法那第三個呢 目前要採用哪一種模式我想你目前也講不出來嘛但是我從數位發展部今天的專報我有看到您剛才在其他委員質詢過程中 您也有提到像以澳洲來講"},{"start":181.072,"end":194.032,"text":"Google或Meta他們呢原本是主動的跟幾十家的媒體達成協議也預計要每一年提供2億澳幣也就是大約台幣40億的資金可是"},{"start":196.716,"end":214.571,"text":"他Meta你講到Meta比較強硬他在2024年3月就改變政策宣布不再與新聞出版商續約未來呢也不想要再展開這樣的商業合作模式那加拿大呢他也是在前年2023通過線上新聞法"},{"start":218.194,"end":245.603,"text":"可是他也願意2024年起每年捐贈1億加幣大約台幣23億可是他也是相對的這個Meta為了規避強制溢價您剛剛一直提到的強制溢價選擇全面封鎖新聞的內容導致新聞媒體的網路流量反而明顯的下降對那些中小型的媒體衝擊最為嚴重所以呢英國經濟學人就說啦"},{"start":246.283,"end":254.035,"text":"就是我們原本想要透過立法輔助新聞產業結果反而造成傷害因你看到底是哪裡做錯了"},{"start":256.308,"end":277.761,"text":"主要還是在於說因為我們主要針對剛剛講就是Google跟Meta這兩個公司嘛那以Meta來講它其實很簡單它就是我的流量裡面屬於新聞的流量只有不到3%我當然就因為這樣關係所以他們就比較沒有那個意願來配合所以我想主要還是回到市場面也就是說自我這個東西它"},{"start":278.681,"end":307.006,"text":"他來做這個事情會增加他的營收或增加的流量他就會考慮所以還是回到市場的基本面就是這個東西到底意思就是其實回到市場來看沒有那麼理想市場的話就是說這兩個公司來配合還是要回到市場那當然就是說我們當然是希望我們能夠經過立法讓他們願意來配合那同時也幫助共榮的意思就是說同時幫助這個平台公司跟請教部長"},{"start":308.166,"end":325.233,"text":"那我們目前國內的平台像Google Meta他們對於我們要立這個法他們的立場是怎麼樣他們的立場基本上都有表示反對啦那細節是不是那個因為很多談判是我們次長去談的來次長"},{"start":327.504,"end":353.289,"text":"是 目前Google跟Meta都表達反對的立場我們都有詢問過他們 他們也經過美國商會沒關係 我就是要聽而已 就知道他們的立場因為現在 全世界有一種風險 叫做川普風險那我不曉得說 當川普上任之後他們也發表十項不公平數位貿易慣例"},{"start":355.089,"end":378.305,"text":"那指稱剛才提到的澳洲也好加拿大也好那些在內的媒體溢價立法已經損害到美國經濟的利益那我不曉得說當美國政府認為對他們的Google Meta結果別的國家呢造成他們的潛在的成本會增加那麼多那我請教一下"},{"start":379.346,"end":401.977,"text":"我們有沒有評估過如果立這樣的法會不會引發美國報復性關稅措施我個人的判斷是很有可能因為他已經對澳洲加拿大有提出這樣的一個要求所以我想任何一個新的要求新的這樣的立法出現美國政府一定會採取相同的態度來對待所以你們評估可能是會的"},{"start":403.098,"end":417.937,"text":"好 但是重點我們還是要提升媒體收入啊新聞有價那食物上我想很多問題像包括如何分潤是用流量分 使用量還是要設定集聚還是有其他更好的方法"},{"start":418.658,"end":446.18,"text":"那當平台跟媒體談判的時候這種包裹的談判到底是要一季分一年分那對媒體到底有沒有利那到底是對大型媒體有利那對獨立媒體有沒有利還是大型媒體根本不屑因為他的分潤金佔營業的收入根本就不高那甚至是那些獨立媒體他的流量本來就不高那他的分潤呢他算起來也根本沒有什麼"},{"start":447.34,"end":472.715,"text":"那到底我這樣子講的意思說有沒有評估如果法案通過之後對於這種不同規模的媒體大型小型不同性質的媒體 紙本啊 電子啊 獨立啊 Daily新聞深度影音有沒有去做這些細微不同程度的影響的分析有沒有去針對這些不同類型的規模的這些媒體有沒有問過他們對這個法案的意願 有沒有"},{"start":477.794,"end":499.43,"text":"跟委員報告我們在過去這一年的期間我們不斷的跟媒體還有跟各方那他們的看法怎麼樣對那現在其實最大的問題就是流量那以這個META來講的話這是去年11月我到META去拜訪那個加拿大政府的時候他們秀給我看了一個截圖就是META因為在加拿大通過那個媒體議價法以後呢"},{"start":499.83,"end":527.697,"text":"他就在上面把所有新聞連結通通block掉了所以我在加拿大我嘗試連線CNN或者是連線那個加拿大當地的媒體上面都會顯示說在加拿大你不能看到這些任何的新聞媒體所以META的回應方式就是讓說根本就沒有流量所以我們要用流量來分潤的話這個已經是不可行的這是他一個商業行為他就選擇他退出他就不再提供任何的那個媒體"},{"start":530.279,"end":544.777,"text":"因為主席站起來我其實只是說大家都很關心但是我們也很想知道到底各個媒體他們的想法是什麼甚至是到底有沒有對新聞媒體去做定義了"},{"start":546.078,"end":562.866,"text":"像有的像端傳媒它只是新加坡註冊在台灣的分公司那像報導者它是基金會成立的新聞機構那又或者像一些自媒體又或者是公管集團其實對於定義這件事誰能夠被納入誰能夠談判 誰能夠分潤"},{"start":566.368,"end":592.579,"text":"像我們談的這些都是過去我們看到平台無償使用新聞那剛才部長您有提到現在的變化就是因為AI也是無償使用新聞那到底他甚至有一些媒體去檢視之後發現checkGPT的流量還最高高於平均那他大量使用媒體的資料來擴充他自己的資料庫那沒有獲得授權甚至付費"},{"start":593.919,"end":618.868,"text":"那納入法規要怎麼研議或者人工智慧法那邊要怎麼處理所以我想你們也沒有版本但是又一直說支持新聞有價想要提升媒體的收入到底有沒有辦過公聽會我們全部都不得而知那我想今天排這個專報就是希望我們要審慎的評估討論那希望把這件事情做好"},{"start":620.309,"end":640.146,"text":"謝謝委員建議我們會持續會開公聽會嗎我們會持續跟媒體溝通會公聽會公聽會或是以訪談或是各樣的會議形式我們會進行各種會議形式不要公聽會公聽會也是公聽會就是立法院公聽會嗎這個我們或者各地的分區座談都可以分區座談我們會繼續好繼續努力謝謝部長謝謝主席好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":329,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（9時53分）謝謝主席，有請數發部黃部長。"],["主席：請數發部黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai 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Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝部長。第一個，您就是肯定新聞有價；第二個，你也希望儘速立法；第三個，目前要採用哪一種模式，我想你目前也講不出來嘛！但是我從數位發展部今天的專報有看到，剛才跟其他委員的詢答過程中您也有提到，以澳洲來講，Google或Meta原本是主動跟幾十家的媒體達成協議，也預計要每一年提供2億澳幣，也就是大約臺幣40億的資金，可是Meta，你講到Meta比較強硬，他在2024年3月就改變政策，宣布不再與新聞出版商續約，未來也不再展開新一輪的商業合作模式。加拿大在前（2023）年通過線上新聞法之後，Google也願意自2024年起，每年捐贈1億加幣（大約臺幣23億）；可是相對的，Meta為了規避強制議價義務，您剛剛一直提到的強制議價，選擇全面封鎖新聞內容，導致新聞媒體的網路流量反而明顯的下降，尤其對中小型媒體的衝擊最為嚴重。英國經濟學人雜誌指出，加拿大原本想要透過立法扶助新聞產業，結果反而造成傷害，依你看到底是哪裡做錯了？"],["黃部長彥男：因為我們主要是針對剛剛講的就是Google跟Meta這兩個公司，以Meta來講其實很簡單，他的流量裡面屬於新聞的量只有不到百分之三，因為這樣的關係，他就比較沒有意願來配合。所以我想主要還是回到市場面，也就是如果做這件事會增加他的營收或增加他的流量，他就會考慮，所以還是要回到市場的基本面，就是這個東西到底對這間公司……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：意思就是其實回到市場來看沒有那麼理想？"],["黃部長彥男：就是如果要這兩個公司來配合，還是要回到市場，我們當然希望能夠透過立法讓他們願意配合，同時也幫助共榮，意思就是同時幫助平臺公司跟新聞媒體……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：請教部長，目前國內的平臺，像Google、Meta對於我們要立這個法，他們的立場是怎麼樣？"],["黃部長彥男：他們的立場，基本上他們都有表示反對，至於細節的部分，因為很多談判是我們次長去談的，所以要請次長說明。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，來，次長。"],["林次長宜敬：是。目前Google跟Meta都表達反對的立場，這個我們都有詢問過他們，他們也有透過美國商會表達……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，沒關係，我就是要知道他們的立場而已。現在全世界有一種風險叫做「川普風險」，當川普上任之後，美國政府也發表十項不公平數位貿易慣例，指稱剛才提到的澳洲、加拿大等在內的媒體議價立法已經損害到美國的經濟利益。我不曉得當美國政府認為，別的國家對他們的Google、Meta等數位平臺的立法結果，造成他們的潛在的成本會增加那麼多，我請教一下，我們有沒有評估過，如果立這樣的法，會不會引發美國的報復性關稅措施？"],["黃部長彥男：我個人的判斷是很有可能，因為美國政府已經對澳洲跟加拿大提出要求，所以我想任何一個新的、這一類的立法出現，美國政府一定會採取相同的態度來對待。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：所以你們評估可能是會？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，但是重點我們還是要提升媒體的收入，畢竟新聞有價，實務上我想很多問題，包括如何分潤，是用流量（使用量）分潤還是要設定級距還是有其他更好的方法？當平臺跟媒體談判的時候，這種包裹式的談判到底是要一季分、一年分，對媒體到底有沒有利？到底是對大型媒體有利，那對獨立媒體有沒有利？還是大型媒體根本不屑？因為他的分潤金占營業的收入根本就不高，甚至是那些獨立媒體，他的流量本來就不高，他的分潤算起來也根本沒有什麼。我這樣子講的意思是，你們到底有沒有評估，如果法案通過之後，對於大型、小型不同規模的媒體，或是不同性質的媒體，比如紙本、電子、獨立、daily新聞、深度影音等等，有沒有去做這些細微不同程度的影響的分析，有沒有去針對不同類型、規模的媒體，有沒有問過他們對這個法案的意願，有沒有？"],["林次長宜敬：跟委員報告，我們在過去這一年期間不斷地跟媒體還有跟各方溝通……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：那他們的看法怎麼樣？"],["林次長宜敬：其實現在最大的問題就是流量，以Meta來講，去年11月我去拜訪加拿大政府的時候，他們秀給我看的一個截圖，就是在加拿大通過媒體議價法以後，Meta就在平臺上把所有新聞連結通通block掉了。我在加拿大嘗試連線CNN或是連線加拿大當地的媒體，平臺上面都會顯示，在加拿大你不能看到任何的新聞媒體，Meta的回應方式就是讓所有的新聞媒體根本就沒有流量，所以我們要用流量來分潤的話已經是不可行的。這是他的商業行為，他就是選擇退出，他就不再提供任何新聞媒體的連結，謝謝。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，因為主席站起來了。我只是說大家都很關心，但是我們也很想知道，到底各個媒體他們的想法是什麼，甚至是到底有沒有對新聞媒體去做定義了？有的像端傳媒，他只是新加坡註冊在臺灣的分公司；像報導者，他是基金會成立的新聞機構；又或者像一些自媒體；又或者是公廣集團，對於定義何謂媒體這件事，誰能夠被納入，誰能夠談判，誰能夠分潤，像我們談的這些都是過去我們看到平臺無償使用新聞，剛才部長你也有提到，現在的變化就是因為AI也是無償取用新聞，甚至有一些媒體去檢視之後發現，ChatGPT的流量還是最高高於平均，他大量使用媒體的資料來擴充他自己的資料庫卻沒有獲得授權甚至付費，那要怎麼研議納入法規？或者人工智慧法那邊要怎麼處理？我想你們也沒有版本，但是又一直說支持新聞有價，想要提升媒體的收入，到底有沒有辦過公聽會，我們全部都不得而知，我想今天排這個專報就是希望我們要審慎的評估、討論，希望把這件事情做好。部長，如何？"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員的建議，我們會持續……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：會開公聽會嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：對，我們會持續跟媒體溝通，會。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：公聽會？"],["黃部長彥男：公聽會或是以訪談或是各樣的會議形式，我們會進行。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：各種會議形式，不要公聽會？"],["黃部長彥男：公聽會？就是立法院的公聽會嗎？"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：嗯。"],["黃部長彥男：這個我們再看……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：或者各地的分區座談都可以啊。"],["黃部長彥男：分區座談我們會繼續。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，OK，繼續努力。謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝伍麗華委員。","現在請葛如鈞召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":148,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-23,22-1","speakers":["林國成","王鴻薇","張啓楷","洪孟楷","林宜瑾","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","葛如鈞","范雲","林俊憲","蔡其昌","許智傑","郭昱晴","徐富癸","李昆澤","何欣純","陳素月","邱若華","廖先翔","魯明哲","陳培瑜","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","羅廷瑋","吳沛憶","葉元之","游顥","林楚茵","蔡易餘","張雅琳","柯志恩","萬美玲","黃健豪","劉書彬","翁曉玲"],"page_start":61,"meetingDate":["2025-05-01"],"gazette_id":"1144501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員林楚茵等17人擬具「新聞媒體與數位平台議價法草案」案；二、審查委員羅廷瑋等\n16人擬具「新聞媒體與數位平臺強制議價法草案」案；三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「新聞媒\n體與數位平臺強制議價法草案」案；四、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「新聞媒體與數位科技平台公\n平發展法草案」案；五、審查委員林宜瑾等21 人擬具「數位新聞發展與民主韌性法草案」案；\n六、審查委員范雲等21人擬具「數位新聞發展與民主韌性法草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1144501_00002"}}}