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\"start\": 625.354, \"end\": 625.595, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 625.595, \"end\": 625.935, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 625.935, \"end\": 625.995, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 625.995, \"end\": 626.015, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,059 --> 00:00:23,174\n委員好部長好那我想關於就是這個媒體溢價法那首先就是要跟大家講的部分是就是其實從2023年就是上一屆我就持續倡議新聞有價那我想這個部分在你們的報告中你們也多次講\n\n2\n00:00:23,894 --> 00:00:37,203\n就是你們的支持喔那這邊是講到說2023年2月15日那當時我就邀請學者專家喔還有跟我們立法院的領主委員等我們就開了首次的公聽會那當天針對就是\n\n3\n00:00:39,985 --> 00:01:04,787\n到底這個分潤機制怎麼設計強制一價的設計我們這個民主國家的第四權有蠻多的討論那2023年5月11號當時我也召開記者會也正式提案那你有看到就是記者公會的朋友也有跟我一起開所以這其實是媒體界不管是所謂的老闆或者是記者朋友公會都很關心的事\n\n4\n00:01:05,367 --> 00:01:22,300\n那2023年5月22號當時我也來特別質詢喔那要求速發部能夠進行評估喔那2023年11月喔我提出預算案也要求引領政策時程可是到現在我們都知道一直沒有佈板喔\n\n5\n00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:44,712\n那我想我先簡單介紹我的版本的特色我的版本是溢價跟基金的雙軌制那溢價協商的部分怎麼去合理分潤因為目前最主要的問題其實就是廣告的分潤那基本上大型平台是自己做莊自己兼求援那演算法的機制\n\n6\n00:01:45,932 --> 00:02:07,183\n並沒有公開透明所以對媒體來講的話其實從2017年之後學者們等研究就看到數位廣告早已高過媒體本身資訊不揭露然後談判不對等所以如果媒體沒有辦法生存的話其實傷害的就是我們的知的權利\n\n7\n00:02:08,203 --> 00:02:29,483\n那這部分所以溢價協商的部分如何合理分潤它基本上就是解決媒體產業的生存的問題它彰顯的是新聞的Price價格那為什麼我的版本會多一個基金股列那主要是記者朋友跟相關公會的意見我們如何在這個過程中\n\n8\n00:02:31,163 --> 00:02:50,970\n凸顯新聞的價值所以我版本中有設置基金管理委員會其中學者專家社會公正人士公會及公會團體的代表不得少於四分之三那我知道就是說後來我們立法院也有委員們辦公聽會的時候有提到就是說希望溢價制度先行\n\n9\n00:02:51,570 --> 00:03:07,021\n那基金很好那可以鼓勵小眾多元媒體新聞工作者那擔心就是第一個會不會有重複課稅加重平台負擔的問題那第二個政府的手會不會深入媒體那當然這跟基金這個基金的組成審議有關\n\n10\n00:03:10,123 --> 00:03:33,063\n那另外如何團結媒體而大家擔心會不會分配不公的問題那我想你們目前在處理Google就是說提供了錢的時候其實就是說也要面對相關的議題那我個人是覺得其實什麼樣的制度對我來講要解決現在媒體集體的困境然後在這個過程中如何讓新聞工作者\n\n11\n00:03:33,683 --> 00:03:49,217\n他也能夠發出聲音參與相關的決策然後保障少數沒有協商實力的多元的媒體是我希望速發部在這個數位時代能夠一起來思考的\n\n12\n00:03:49,577 --> 00:04:12,392\n所以對我來講我並不會堅持一定要哪個制度我覺得政府出面當市場失敗的時候能夠出來解決問題的就是政府嘛那當然我們也知道當我這個版本提出的時間現在又有很多變化了日新月異包括您剛講的關稅談判的問題然後我們也看到目前我們看到的不管是澳洲模式\n\n13\n00:04:13,573 --> 00:04:23,419\n加拿大模式或者我剛剛沒有提到駐作臨接權因為在當時我辦的公聽會中很多學者就覺得這個比較不適用於台灣那駐作臨接權雖然2023年27個會歐盟27個會員國都完成國內法化\n\n14\n00:04:29,563 --> 00:04:49,779\n可是也看到Meta已經宣告2025年要終止他們的新聞推薦那我們也看到澳洲的情況Meta在2024年3月也不再跟媒體續約那現在我看到的最新的狀況是去年年底澳洲政府又有了新的策略那我不知道他們\n\n15\n00:04:50,579 --> 00:05:14,053\n主要關稅主要不就是澳洲的例子嘛那加拿大我們也看到就是他們遇到的情況比較偏向於據說用基金制就是譬如說Google就決定拿出1億的加幣免5年的協商那當然就是說Meta他一樣是遇到Meta的封鎖新聞\n\n16\n00:05:14,833 --> 00:05:35,853\n所以我覺得這個困境是很高的那可是到底怎麼解決我覺得也不能夠沒有一個制度所以我想當然我的版本另外一個重點是針對現在的深層式的AI的無常使用我想部長很知道就是紐約時報率先控告OpenAI微軟在未經同意下\n\n17\n00:05:36,514 --> 00:05:51,044\n用新聞報導訓練深層式AI那我的版本我知道我們的AI基本法也會處理這個問題那我不知道哪一個會先所以我的版本也納管深層式AI主要就是促使促發部解決這個問題那紐約時報的官司\n\n18\n00:05:54,386 --> 00:06:23,307\n他的訴狀中最後寫到媒體的收入如果減少的話深度採訪投入時間跟資源的記者也會跟著受害這其實都是民主的危機所以我覺得這是我們一個集體的困境我的重點第三個就是跟很多委員不一樣的是保障記者勞動條件跟聲音如果新聞媒體經溢價後的部分分類應該要用於改善\n\n19\n00:06:23,787 --> 00:06:39,706\n媒體記者的勞動條件新聞媒體工作者也可以向如果這個基金能夠成立的話申請補助那我要跟大家講就是說加拿大的那個基金的分配其實他有去算媒體記者投入的時數跟他的總工時\n\n20\n00:06:40,307 --> 00:06:59,677\n那這部分如果我們據說受發布有這個版本的話我想你們的研究人員跟能力應該要比我們各立委辦公室強那我最後要提的就是因為時間到了要講的其實一直不夠我覺得我的版本初衷為什麼這麼早2023年就提出我們看到新聞\n\n21\n00:07:00,797 --> 00:07:25,090\n就是說新聞的如果淪喪或者是不願意投入到有品質的新聞的話其實就是民主的危機因為假訊息這麼的多所以如何強化民主韌性這是關鍵字就需要一起去面對大型數位平台這麼的龐大是一個全球的這樣子一個企業體那我們說數位主權對不對這個數位主權在這方面台灣\n\n22\n00:07:28,972 --> 00:07:51,805\n當然你會講說他很難去協商那但是我們有日本韓國其他的國家的例子是不是速發部能夠更進一步促成呢就剛剛已經講了很多了我知道你們有開了三輪八字會議跟新聞產業數位平台的對平等對話那最近在你們的報告中又講到川普上台對等關稅的衝擊那所以\n\n23\n00:07:55,202 --> 00:08:12,513\n你們目前的計畫到底怎麼樣如何解決台灣媒體的集體困境是不是可以簡短回答我呢委員剛剛講的確實都是一些重點那我們當然就是說我們也很擔心新聞有價這件事情當然也是希望能夠越快定案越好\n\n24\n00:08:12,833 --> 00:08:37,799\n那只是說在這個時間點確實因為國際情勢跟技術都還有就是那個目前的像剛剛講尤其是那個澳洲跟加拿大目前的發展都是我們作為下一段階參考當然就是說這個東西希望能夠在也就是說這個關稅的問題都希望很快能夠解決然後呢看看這個加拿大跟澳洲怎麼去處理這個問題然後跟歐盟我們當然是希望越快越好\n\n25\n00:08:38,439 --> 00:08:59,604\n那我是主張一定要有速發布的版本我們立法院才能審議啦因為這個涉及到的議題非常的複雜那主席也知道嘛又涉及到關稅又涉及到媒體然後這中間的不同的部分每一個委員的版本可能都沒有辦法了解最新的狀況還有包括AI剛剛講AI的侵權還有AI的部分這個問題比\n\n26\n00:09:02,024 --> 00:09:26,265\n委員所講兩年前又複雜很多我也要提一下速發部跟委員之間的溝通真的是太少了有一段時間好像停滯了直到這個召委要排這個部分是不是能夠更積極啊因為台灣媒體的困境已經很久了那你們現在就是Google分三年給的3億元的40個補助計畫是不是也能夠在你們同步\n\n27\n00:09:27,546 --> 00:09:54,563\n提出你們的版本的過程中也納入包含記者公會的聲音小型媒體獨立媒體獨立媒體的聲音還有就是說能不能夠評估那台灣媒體有沒有可能有一個共同的分潤平台如果就是說川普這個之後我們覺得有些制度比較高難度的話那我覺得速發部就是要出來解決這個問題因為為什麼我們要有速發部就是文化部NCC等等沒有辦法單獨處理這個問題好嗎\n\n28\n00:09:56,964 --> 00:10:05,091\n因為數位平台這個應該是你們就是說首先能夠面對的好嗎好謝謝委員那多久之內可以給我一個報告\n\n29\n00:10:09,568 --> 00:10:26,015\n一個月之內一個月之內那到底你們這個版本的時程各方面那我是主張要有你們的版本我們再能夠進入逐條審議負責就是說立法委員個別的智慧都有限那我們擔心當然不希望傷害到台灣的媒體跟我們的民主好嗎好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4059\t23174\t委員好部長好那我想關於就是這個媒體溢價法那首先就是要跟大家講的部分是就是其實從2023年就是上一屆我就持續倡議新聞有價那我想這個部分在你們的報告中你們也多次講\n23894\t37203\t就是你們的支持喔那這邊是講到說2023年2月15日那當時我就邀請學者專家喔還有跟我們立法院的領主委員等我們就開了首次的公聽會那當天針對就是\n39985\t64787\t到底這個分潤機制怎麼設計強制一價的設計我們這個民主國家的第四權有蠻多的討論那2023年5月11號當時我也召開記者會也正式提案那你有看到就是記者公會的朋友也有跟我一起開所以這其實是媒體界不管是所謂的老闆或者是記者朋友公會都很關心的事\n65367\t82300\t那2023年5月22號當時我也來特別質詢喔那要求速發部能夠進行評估喔那2023年11月喔我提出預算案也要求引領政策時程可是到現在我們都知道一直沒有佈板喔\n82640\t104712\t那我想我先簡單介紹我的版本的特色我的版本是溢價跟基金的雙軌制那溢價協商的部分怎麼去合理分潤因為目前最主要的問題其實就是廣告的分潤那基本上大型平台是自己做莊自己兼求援那演算法的機制\n105932\t127183\t並沒有公開透明所以對媒體來講的話其實從2017年之後學者們等研究就看到數位廣告早已高過媒體本身資訊不揭露然後談判不對等所以如果媒體沒有辦法生存的話其實傷害的就是我們的知的權利\n128203\t149483\t那這部分所以溢價協商的部分如何合理分潤它基本上就是解決媒體產業的生存的問題它彰顯的是新聞的Price價格那為什麼我的版本會多一個基金股列那主要是記者朋友跟相關公會的意見我們如何在這個過程中\n151163\t170970\t凸顯新聞的價值所以我版本中有設置基金管理委員會其中學者專家社會公正人士公會及公會團體的代表不得少於四分之三那我知道就是說後來我們立法院也有委員們辦公聽會的時候有提到就是說希望溢價制度先行\n171570\t187021\t那基金很好那可以鼓勵小眾多元媒體新聞工作者那擔心就是第一個會不會有重複課稅加重平台負擔的問題那第二個政府的手會不會深入媒體那當然這跟基金這個基金的組成審議有關\n190123\t213063\t那另外如何團結媒體而大家擔心會不會分配不公的問題那我想你們目前在處理Google就是說提供了錢的時候其實就是說也要面對相關的議題那我個人是覺得其實什麼樣的制度對我來講要解決現在媒體集體的困境然後在這個過程中如何讓新聞工作者\n213683\t229217\t他也能夠發出聲音參與相關的決策然後保障少數沒有協商實力的多元的媒體是我希望速發部在這個數位時代能夠一起來思考的\n229577\t252392\t所以對我來講我並不會堅持一定要哪個制度我覺得政府出面當市場失敗的時候能夠出來解決問題的就是政府嘛那當然我們也知道當我這個版本提出的時間現在又有很多變化了日新月異包括您剛講的關稅談判的問題然後我們也看到目前我們看到的不管是澳洲模式\n253573\t263419\t加拿大模式或者我剛剛沒有提到駐作臨接權因為在當時我辦的公聽會中很多學者就覺得這個比較不適用於台灣那駐作臨接權雖然2023年27個會 歐盟27個會員國都完成國內法化\n269563\t289779\t可是也看到Meta已經宣告2025年要終止他們的新聞推薦那我們也看到澳洲的情況Meta在2024年3月也不再跟媒體續約那現在我看到的最新的狀況是去年年底澳洲政府又有了新的策略那我不知道他們\n290579\t314053\t主要關稅主要不就是澳洲的例子嘛那加拿大我們也看到就是他們遇到的情況比較偏向於據說用基金制就是譬如說Google就決定拿出1億的加幣免5年的協商那當然就是說Meta他一樣是遇到Meta的封鎖新聞\n314833\t335853\t所以我覺得這個困境是很高的那可是到底怎麼解決我覺得也不能夠沒有一個制度所以我想當然我的版本另外一個重點是針對現在的深層式的AI的無常使用我想部長很知道就是紐約時報率先控告OpenAI微軟在未經同意下\n336514\t351044\t用新聞報導訓練深層式AI那我的版本我知道我們的AI基本法也會處理這個問題那我不知道哪一個會先所以我的版本也納管深層式AI主要就是促使促發部解決這個問題那紐約時報的官司\n354386\t383307\t他的訴狀中最後寫到媒體的收入如果減少的話深度採訪投入時間跟資源的記者也會跟著受害這其實都是民主的危機所以我覺得這是我們一個集體的困境我的重點第三個就是跟很多委員不一樣的是保障記者勞動條件跟聲音如果新聞媒體經溢價後的部分分類應該要用於改善\n383787\t399706\t媒體記者的勞動條件新聞媒體工作者也可以向如果這個基金能夠成立的話申請補助那我要跟大家講就是說加拿大的那個基金的分配其實他有去算媒體記者投入的時數跟他的總工時\n400307\t419677\t那這部分如果我們據說受發布有這個版本的話我想你們的研究人員跟能力應該要比我們各立委辦公室強那我最後要提的就是因為時間到了要講的其實一直不夠我覺得我的版本初衷為什麼這麼早2023年就提出我們看到新聞\n420797\t445090\t就是說新聞的如果淪喪或者是不願意投入到有品質的新聞的話其實就是民主的危機因為假訊息這麼的多所以如何強化民主韌性這是關鍵字就需要一起去面對大型數位平台這麼的龐大是一個全球的這樣子一個企業體那我們說數位主權對不對這個數位主權在這方面台灣\n448972\t471805\t當然你會講說他很難去協商那但是我們有日本韓國其他的國家的例子是不是速發部能夠更進一步促成呢就剛剛已經講了很多了我知道你們有開了三輪八字會議跟新聞產業數位平台的對平等對話那最近在你們的報告中又講到川普上台對等關稅的衝擊那所以\n475202\t492513\t你們目前的計畫到底怎麼樣如何解決台灣媒體的集體困境是不是可以簡短回答我呢委員剛剛講的確實都是一些重點那我們當然就是說我們也很擔心新聞有價這件事情當然也是希望能夠越快定案越好\n492833\t517799\t那只是說在這個時間點確實因為國際情勢跟技術都還有就是那個目前的像剛剛講尤其是那個澳洲跟加拿大目前的發展都是我們作為下一段階參考當然就是說這個東西希望能夠在也就是說這個關稅的問題都希望很快能夠解決然後呢看看這個加拿大跟澳洲怎麼去處理這個問題然後跟歐盟我們當然是希望越快越好\n518439\t539604\t那我是主張一定要有速發布的版本我們立法院才能審議啦因為這個涉及到的議題非常的複雜那主席也知道嘛又涉及到關稅又涉及到媒體然後這中間的不同的部分每一個委員的版本可能都沒有辦法了解最新的狀況還有包括AI 剛剛講AI的侵權還有AI的部分這個問題比\n542024\t566265\t委員所講兩年前又複雜很多我也要提一下速發部跟委員之間的溝通真的是太少了有一段時間好像停滯了直到這個召委要排這個部分是不是能夠更積極啊因為台灣媒體的困境已經很久了那你們現在就是Google分三年給的3億元的40個補助計畫是不是也能夠在你們同步\n567546\t594563\t提出你們的版本的過程中也納入包含記者公會的聲音小型媒體 獨立媒體 獨立媒體的聲音還有就是說能不能夠評估那台灣媒體有沒有可能有一個共同的分潤平台如果就是說川普這個之後我們覺得有些制度比較高難度的話那我覺得速發部就是要出來解決這個問題因為為什麼我們要有速發部就是文化部 NCC 等等沒有辦法單獨處理這個問題好嗎\n596964\t605091\t因為數位平台這個應該是你們就是說首先能夠面對的好嗎好 謝謝委員那多久之內可以給我一個報告\n609568\t626015\t一個月之內一個月之內那到底你們這個版本的時程各方面那我是主張要有你們的版本我們再能夠進入逐條審議負責就是說立法委員個別的智慧都有限那我們擔心當然不希望傷害到台灣的媒體跟我們的民主好嗎好 謝謝\n","txt":"委員好部長好那我想關於就是這個媒體溢價法那首先就是要跟大家講的部分是就是其實從2023年就是上一屆我就持續倡議新聞有價那我想這個部分在你們的報告中你們也多次講\n就是你們的支持喔那這邊是講到說2023年2月15日那當時我就邀請學者專家喔還有跟我們立法院的領主委員等我們就開了首次的公聽會那當天針對就是\n到底這個分潤機制怎麼設計強制一價的設計我們這個民主國家的第四權有蠻多的討論那2023年5月11號當時我也召開記者會也正式提案那你有看到就是記者公會的朋友也有跟我一起開所以這其實是媒體界不管是所謂的老闆或者是記者朋友公會都很關心的事\n那2023年5月22號當時我也來特別質詢喔那要求速發部能夠進行評估喔那2023年11月喔我提出預算案也要求引領政策時程可是到現在我們都知道一直沒有佈板喔\n那我想我先簡單介紹我的版本的特色我的版本是溢價跟基金的雙軌制那溢價協商的部分怎麼去合理分潤因為目前最主要的問題其實就是廣告的分潤那基本上大型平台是自己做莊自己兼求援那演算法的機制\n並沒有公開透明所以對媒體來講的話其實從2017年之後學者們等研究就看到數位廣告早已高過媒體本身資訊不揭露然後談判不對等所以如果媒體沒有辦法生存的話其實傷害的就是我們的知的權利\n那這部分所以溢價協商的部分如何合理分潤它基本上就是解決媒體產業的生存的問題它彰顯的是新聞的Price價格那為什麼我的版本會多一個基金股列那主要是記者朋友跟相關公會的意見我們如何在這個過程中\n凸顯新聞的價值所以我版本中有設置基金管理委員會其中學者專家社會公正人士公會及公會團體的代表不得少於四分之三那我知道就是說後來我們立法院也有委員們辦公聽會的時候有提到就是說希望溢價制度先行\n那基金很好那可以鼓勵小眾多元媒體新聞工作者那擔心就是第一個會不會有重複課稅加重平台負擔的問題那第二個政府的手會不會深入媒體那當然這跟基金這個基金的組成審議有關\n那另外如何團結媒體而大家擔心會不會分配不公的問題那我想你們目前在處理Google就是說提供了錢的時候其實就是說也要面對相關的議題那我個人是覺得其實什麼樣的制度對我來講要解決現在媒體集體的困境然後在這個過程中如何讓新聞工作者\n他也能夠發出聲音參與相關的決策然後保障少數沒有協商實力的多元的媒體是我希望速發部在這個數位時代能夠一起來思考的\n所以對我來講我並不會堅持一定要哪個制度我覺得政府出面當市場失敗的時候能夠出來解決問題的就是政府嘛那當然我們也知道當我這個版本提出的時間現在又有很多變化了日新月異包括您剛講的關稅談判的問題然後我們也看到目前我們看到的不管是澳洲模式\n加拿大模式或者我剛剛沒有提到駐作臨接權因為在當時我辦的公聽會中很多學者就覺得這個比較不適用於台灣那駐作臨接權雖然2023年27個會 歐盟27個會員國都完成國內法化\n可是也看到Meta已經宣告2025年要終止他們的新聞推薦那我們也看到澳洲的情況Meta在2024年3月也不再跟媒體續約那現在我看到的最新的狀況是去年年底澳洲政府又有了新的策略那我不知道他們\n主要關稅主要不就是澳洲的例子嘛那加拿大我們也看到就是他們遇到的情況比較偏向於據說用基金制就是譬如說Google就決定拿出1億的加幣免5年的協商那當然就是說Meta他一樣是遇到Meta的封鎖新聞\n所以我覺得這個困境是很高的那可是到底怎麼解決我覺得也不能夠沒有一個制度所以我想當然我的版本另外一個重點是針對現在的深層式的AI的無常使用我想部長很知道就是紐約時報率先控告OpenAI微軟在未經同意下\n用新聞報導訓練深層式AI那我的版本我知道我們的AI基本法也會處理這個問題那我不知道哪一個會先所以我的版本也納管深層式AI主要就是促使促發部解決這個問題那紐約時報的官司\n他的訴狀中最後寫到媒體的收入如果減少的話深度採訪投入時間跟資源的記者也會跟著受害這其實都是民主的危機所以我覺得這是我們一個集體的困境我的重點第三個就是跟很多委員不一樣的是保障記者勞動條件跟聲音如果新聞媒體經溢價後的部分分類應該要用於改善\n媒體記者的勞動條件新聞媒體工作者也可以向如果這個基金能夠成立的話申請補助那我要跟大家講就是說加拿大的那個基金的分配其實他有去算媒體記者投入的時數跟他的總工時\n那這部分如果我們據說受發布有這個版本的話我想你們的研究人員跟能力應該要比我們各立委辦公室強那我最後要提的就是因為時間到了要講的其實一直不夠我覺得我的版本初衷為什麼這麼早2023年就提出我們看到新聞\n就是說新聞的如果淪喪或者是不願意投入到有品質的新聞的話其實就是民主的危機因為假訊息這麼的多所以如何強化民主韌性這是關鍵字就需要一起去面對大型數位平台這麼的龐大是一個全球的這樣子一個企業體那我們說數位主權對不對這個數位主權在這方面台灣\n當然你會講說他很難去協商那但是我們有日本韓國其他的國家的例子是不是速發部能夠更進一步促成呢就剛剛已經講了很多了我知道你們有開了三輪八字會議跟新聞產業數位平台的對平等對話那最近在你們的報告中又講到川普上台對等關稅的衝擊那所以\n你們目前的計畫到底怎麼樣如何解決台灣媒體的集體困境是不是可以簡短回答我呢委員剛剛講的確實都是一些重點那我們當然就是說我們也很擔心新聞有價這件事情當然也是希望能夠越快定案越好\n那只是說在這個時間點確實因為國際情勢跟技術都還有就是那個目前的像剛剛講尤其是那個澳洲跟加拿大目前的發展都是我們作為下一段階參考當然就是說這個東西希望能夠在也就是說這個關稅的問題都希望很快能夠解決然後呢看看這個加拿大跟澳洲怎麼去處理這個問題然後跟歐盟我們當然是希望越快越好\n那我是主張一定要有速發布的版本我們立法院才能審議啦因為這個涉及到的議題非常的複雜那主席也知道嘛又涉及到關稅又涉及到媒體然後這中間的不同的部分每一個委員的版本可能都沒有辦法了解最新的狀況還有包括AI 剛剛講AI的侵權還有AI的部分這個問題比\n委員所講兩年前又複雜很多我也要提一下速發部跟委員之間的溝通真的是太少了有一段時間好像停滯了直到這個召委要排這個部分是不是能夠更積極啊因為台灣媒體的困境已經很久了那你們現在就是Google分三年給的3億元的40個補助計畫是不是也能夠在你們同步\n提出你們的版本的過程中也納入包含記者公會的聲音小型媒體 獨立媒體 獨立媒體的聲音還有就是說能不能夠評估那台灣媒體有沒有可能有一個共同的分潤平台如果就是說川普這個之後我們覺得有些制度比較高難度的話那我覺得速發部就是要出來解決這個問題因為為什麼我們要有速發部就是文化部 NCC 等等沒有辦法單獨處理這個問題好嗎\n因為數位平台這個應該是你們就是說首先能夠面對的好嗎好 謝謝委員那多久之內可以給我一個報告\n一個月之內一個月之內那到底你們這個版本的時程各方面那我是主張要有你們的版本我們再能夠進入逐條審議負責就是說立法委員個別的智慧都有限那我們擔心當然不希望傷害到台灣的媒體跟我們的民主好嗎好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.059 --> 00:23.174\n委員好部長好那我想關於就是這個媒體溢價法那首先就是要跟大家講的部分是就是其實從2023年就是上一屆我就持續倡議新聞有價那我想這個部分在你們的報告中你們也多次講\n\n00:23.894 --> 00:37.203\n就是你們的支持喔那這邊是講到說2023年2月15日那當時我就邀請學者專家喔還有跟我們立法院的領主委員等我們就開了首次的公聽會那當天針對就是\n\n00:39.985 --> 01:04.787\n到底這個分潤機制怎麼設計強制一價的設計我們這個民主國家的第四權有蠻多的討論那2023年5月11號當時我也召開記者會也正式提案那你有看到就是記者公會的朋友也有跟我一起開所以這其實是媒體界不管是所謂的老闆或者是記者朋友公會都很關心的事\n\n01:05.367 --> 01:22.300\n那2023年5月22號當時我也來特別質詢喔那要求速發部能夠進行評估喔那2023年11月喔我提出預算案也要求引領政策時程可是到現在我們都知道一直沒有佈板喔\n\n01:22.640 --> 01:44.712\n那我想我先簡單介紹我的版本的特色我的版本是溢價跟基金的雙軌制那溢價協商的部分怎麼去合理分潤因為目前最主要的問題其實就是廣告的分潤那基本上大型平台是自己做莊自己兼求援那演算法的機制\n\n01:45.932 --> 02:07.183\n並沒有公開透明所以對媒體來講的話其實從2017年之後學者們等研究就看到數位廣告早已高過媒體本身資訊不揭露然後談判不對等所以如果媒體沒有辦法生存的話其實傷害的就是我們的知的權利\n\n02:08.203 --> 02:29.483\n那這部分所以溢價協商的部分如何合理分潤它基本上就是解決媒體產業的生存的問題它彰顯的是新聞的Price價格那為什麼我的版本會多一個基金股列那主要是記者朋友跟相關公會的意見我們如何在這個過程中\n\n02:31.163 --> 02:50.970\n凸顯新聞的價值所以我版本中有設置基金管理委員會其中學者專家社會公正人士公會及公會團體的代表不得少於四分之三那我知道就是說後來我們立法院也有委員們辦公聽會的時候有提到就是說希望溢價制度先行\n\n02:51.570 --> 03:07.021\n那基金很好那可以鼓勵小眾多元媒體新聞工作者那擔心就是第一個會不會有重複課稅加重平台負擔的問題那第二個政府的手會不會深入媒體那當然這跟基金這個基金的組成審議有關\n\n03:10.123 --> 03:33.063\n那另外如何團結媒體而大家擔心會不會分配不公的問題那我想你們目前在處理Google就是說提供了錢的時候其實就是說也要面對相關的議題那我個人是覺得其實什麼樣的制度對我來講要解決現在媒體集體的困境然後在這個過程中如何讓新聞工作者\n\n03:33.683 --> 03:49.217\n他也能夠發出聲音參與相關的決策然後保障少數沒有協商實力的多元的媒體是我希望速發部在這個數位時代能夠一起來思考的\n\n03:49.577 --> 04:12.392\n所以對我來講我並不會堅持一定要哪個制度我覺得政府出面當市場失敗的時候能夠出來解決問題的就是政府嘛那當然我們也知道當我這個版本提出的時間現在又有很多變化了日新月異包括您剛講的關稅談判的問題然後我們也看到目前我們看到的不管是澳洲模式\n\n04:13.573 --> 04:23.419\n加拿大模式或者我剛剛沒有提到駐作臨接權因為在當時我辦的公聽會中很多學者就覺得這個比較不適用於台灣那駐作臨接權雖然2023年27個會歐盟27個會員國都完成國內法化\n\n04:29.563 --> 04:49.779\n可是也看到Meta已經宣告2025年要終止他們的新聞推薦那我們也看到澳洲的情況Meta在2024年3月也不再跟媒體續約那現在我看到的最新的狀況是去年年底澳洲政府又有了新的策略那我不知道他們\n\n04:50.579 --> 05:14.053\n主要關稅主要不就是澳洲的例子嘛那加拿大我們也看到就是他們遇到的情況比較偏向於據說用基金制就是譬如說Google就決定拿出1億的加幣免5年的協商那當然就是說Meta他一樣是遇到Meta的封鎖新聞\n\n05:14.833 --> 05:35.853\n所以我覺得這個困境是很高的那可是到底怎麼解決我覺得也不能夠沒有一個制度所以我想當然我的版本另外一個重點是針對現在的深層式的AI的無常使用我想部長很知道就是紐約時報率先控告OpenAI微軟在未經同意下\n\n05:36.514 --> 05:51.044\n用新聞報導訓練深層式AI那我的版本我知道我們的AI基本法也會處理這個問題那我不知道哪一個會先所以我的版本也納管深層式AI主要就是促使促發部解決這個問題那紐約時報的官司\n\n05:54.386 --> 06:23.307\n他的訴狀中最後寫到媒體的收入如果減少的話深度採訪投入時間跟資源的記者也會跟著受害這其實都是民主的危機所以我覺得這是我們一個集體的困境我的重點第三個就是跟很多委員不一樣的是保障記者勞動條件跟聲音如果新聞媒體經溢價後的部分分類應該要用於改善\n\n06:23.787 --> 06:39.706\n媒體記者的勞動條件新聞媒體工作者也可以向如果這個基金能夠成立的話申請補助那我要跟大家講就是說加拿大的那個基金的分配其實他有去算媒體記者投入的時數跟他的總工時\n\n06:40.307 --> 06:59.677\n那這部分如果我們據說受發布有這個版本的話我想你們的研究人員跟能力應該要比我們各立委辦公室強那我最後要提的就是因為時間到了要講的其實一直不夠我覺得我的版本初衷為什麼這麼早2023年就提出我們看到新聞\n\n07:00.797 --> 07:25.090\n就是說新聞的如果淪喪或者是不願意投入到有品質的新聞的話其實就是民主的危機因為假訊息這麼的多所以如何強化民主韌性這是關鍵字就需要一起去面對大型數位平台這麼的龐大是一個全球的這樣子一個企業體那我們說數位主權對不對這個數位主權在這方面台灣\n\n07:28.972 --> 07:51.805\n當然你會講說他很難去協商那但是我們有日本韓國其他的國家的例子是不是速發部能夠更進一步促成呢就剛剛已經講了很多了我知道你們有開了三輪八字會議跟新聞產業數位平台的對平等對話那最近在你們的報告中又講到川普上台對等關稅的衝擊那所以\n\n07:55.202 --> 08:12.513\n你們目前的計畫到底怎麼樣如何解決台灣媒體的集體困境是不是可以簡短回答我呢委員剛剛講的確實都是一些重點那我們當然就是說我們也很擔心新聞有價這件事情當然也是希望能夠越快定案越好\n\n08:12.833 --> 08:37.799\n那只是說在這個時間點確實因為國際情勢跟技術都還有就是那個目前的像剛剛講尤其是那個澳洲跟加拿大目前的發展都是我們作為下一段階參考當然就是說這個東西希望能夠在也就是說這個關稅的問題都希望很快能夠解決然後呢看看這個加拿大跟澳洲怎麼去處理這個問題然後跟歐盟我們當然是希望越快越好\n\n08:38.439 --> 08:59.604\n那我是主張一定要有速發布的版本我們立法院才能審議啦因為這個涉及到的議題非常的複雜那主席也知道嘛又涉及到關稅又涉及到媒體然後這中間的不同的部分每一個委員的版本可能都沒有辦法了解最新的狀況還有包括AI剛剛講AI的侵權還有AI的部分這個問題比\n\n09:02.024 --> 09:26.265\n委員所講兩年前又複雜很多我也要提一下速發部跟委員之間的溝通真的是太少了有一段時間好像停滯了直到這個召委要排這個部分是不是能夠更積極啊因為台灣媒體的困境已經很久了那你們現在就是Google分三年給的3億元的40個補助計畫是不是也能夠在你們同步\n\n09:27.546 --> 09:54.563\n提出你們的版本的過程中也納入包含記者公會的聲音小型媒體獨立媒體獨立媒體的聲音還有就是說能不能夠評估那台灣媒體有沒有可能有一個共同的分潤平台如果就是說川普這個之後我們覺得有些制度比較高難度的話那我覺得速發部就是要出來解決這個問題因為為什麼我們要有速發部就是文化部NCC等等沒有辦法單獨處理這個問題好嗎\n\n09:56.964 --> 10:05.091\n因為數位平台這個應該是你們就是說首先能夠面對的好嗎好謝謝委員那多久之內可以給我一個報告\n\n10:09.568 --> 10:26.015\n一個月之內一個月之內那到底你們這個版本的時程各方面那我是主張要有你們的版本我們再能夠進入逐條審議負責就是說立法委員個別的智慧都有限那我們擔心當然不希望傷害到台灣的媒體跟我們的民主好嗎好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.059,"end":23.174,"text":"委員好部長好那我想關於就是這個媒體溢價法那首先就是要跟大家講的部分是就是其實從2023年就是上一屆我就持續倡議新聞有價那我想這個部分在你們的報告中你們也多次講"},{"start":23.894,"end":37.203,"text":"就是你們的支持喔那這邊是講到說2023年2月15日那當時我就邀請學者專家喔還有跟我們立法院的領主委員等我們就開了首次的公聽會那當天針對就是"},{"start":39.985,"end":64.787,"text":"到底這個分潤機制怎麼設計強制一價的設計我們這個民主國家的第四權有蠻多的討論那2023年5月11號當時我也召開記者會也正式提案那你有看到就是記者公會的朋友也有跟我一起開所以這其實是媒體界不管是所謂的老闆或者是記者朋友公會都很關心的事"},{"start":65.367,"end":82.3,"text":"那2023年5月22號當時我也來特別質詢喔那要求速發部能夠進行評估喔那2023年11月喔我提出預算案也要求引領政策時程可是到現在我們都知道一直沒有佈板喔"},{"start":82.64,"end":104.712,"text":"那我想我先簡單介紹我的版本的特色我的版本是溢價跟基金的雙軌制那溢價協商的部分怎麼去合理分潤因為目前最主要的問題其實就是廣告的分潤那基本上大型平台是自己做莊自己兼求援那演算法的機制"},{"start":105.932,"end":127.183,"text":"並沒有公開透明所以對媒體來講的話其實從2017年之後學者們等研究就看到數位廣告早已高過媒體本身資訊不揭露然後談判不對等所以如果媒體沒有辦法生存的話其實傷害的就是我們的知的權利"},{"start":128.203,"end":149.483,"text":"那這部分所以溢價協商的部分如何合理分潤它基本上就是解決媒體產業的生存的問題它彰顯的是新聞的Price價格那為什麼我的版本會多一個基金股列那主要是記者朋友跟相關公會的意見我們如何在這個過程中"},{"start":151.163,"end":170.97,"text":"凸顯新聞的價值所以我版本中有設置基金管理委員會其中學者專家社會公正人士公會及公會團體的代表不得少於四分之三那我知道就是說後來我們立法院也有委員們辦公聽會的時候有提到就是說希望溢價制度先行"},{"start":171.57,"end":187.021,"text":"那基金很好那可以鼓勵小眾多元媒體新聞工作者那擔心就是第一個會不會有重複課稅加重平台負擔的問題那第二個政府的手會不會深入媒體那當然這跟基金這個基金的組成審議有關"},{"start":190.123,"end":213.063,"text":"那另外如何團結媒體而大家擔心會不會分配不公的問題那我想你們目前在處理Google就是說提供了錢的時候其實就是說也要面對相關的議題那我個人是覺得其實什麼樣的制度對我來講要解決現在媒體集體的困境然後在這個過程中如何讓新聞工作者"},{"start":213.683,"end":229.217,"text":"他也能夠發出聲音參與相關的決策然後保障少數沒有協商實力的多元的媒體是我希望速發部在這個數位時代能夠一起來思考的"},{"start":229.577,"end":252.392,"text":"所以對我來講我並不會堅持一定要哪個制度我覺得政府出面當市場失敗的時候能夠出來解決問題的就是政府嘛那當然我們也知道當我這個版本提出的時間現在又有很多變化了日新月異包括您剛講的關稅談判的問題然後我們也看到目前我們看到的不管是澳洲模式"},{"start":253.573,"end":263.419,"text":"加拿大模式或者我剛剛沒有提到駐作臨接權因為在當時我辦的公聽會中很多學者就覺得這個比較不適用於台灣那駐作臨接權雖然2023年27個會 歐盟27個會員國都完成國內法化"},{"start":269.563,"end":289.779,"text":"可是也看到Meta已經宣告2025年要終止他們的新聞推薦那我們也看到澳洲的情況Meta在2024年3月也不再跟媒體續約那現在我看到的最新的狀況是去年年底澳洲政府又有了新的策略那我不知道他們"},{"start":290.579,"end":314.053,"text":"主要關稅主要不就是澳洲的例子嘛那加拿大我們也看到就是他們遇到的情況比較偏向於據說用基金制就是譬如說Google就決定拿出1億的加幣免5年的協商那當然就是說Meta他一樣是遇到Meta的封鎖新聞"},{"start":314.833,"end":335.853,"text":"所以我覺得這個困境是很高的那可是到底怎麼解決我覺得也不能夠沒有一個制度所以我想當然我的版本另外一個重點是針對現在的深層式的AI的無常使用我想部長很知道就是紐約時報率先控告OpenAI微軟在未經同意下"},{"start":336.514,"end":351.044,"text":"用新聞報導訓練深層式AI那我的版本我知道我們的AI基本法也會處理這個問題那我不知道哪一個會先所以我的版本也納管深層式AI主要就是促使促發部解決這個問題那紐約時報的官司"},{"start":354.386,"end":383.307,"text":"他的訴狀中最後寫到媒體的收入如果減少的話深度採訪投入時間跟資源的記者也會跟著受害這其實都是民主的危機所以我覺得這是我們一個集體的困境我的重點第三個就是跟很多委員不一樣的是保障記者勞動條件跟聲音如果新聞媒體經溢價後的部分分類應該要用於改善"},{"start":383.787,"end":399.706,"text":"媒體記者的勞動條件新聞媒體工作者也可以向如果這個基金能夠成立的話申請補助那我要跟大家講就是說加拿大的那個基金的分配其實他有去算媒體記者投入的時數跟他的總工時"},{"start":400.307,"end":419.677,"text":"那這部分如果我們據說受發布有這個版本的話我想你們的研究人員跟能力應該要比我們各立委辦公室強那我最後要提的就是因為時間到了要講的其實一直不夠我覺得我的版本初衷為什麼這麼早2023年就提出我們看到新聞"},{"start":420.797,"end":445.09,"text":"就是說新聞的如果淪喪或者是不願意投入到有品質的新聞的話其實就是民主的危機因為假訊息這麼的多所以如何強化民主韌性這是關鍵字就需要一起去面對大型數位平台這麼的龐大是一個全球的這樣子一個企業體那我們說數位主權對不對這個數位主權在這方面台灣"},{"start":448.972,"end":471.805,"text":"當然你會講說他很難去協商那但是我們有日本韓國其他的國家的例子是不是速發部能夠更進一步促成呢就剛剛已經講了很多了我知道你們有開了三輪八字會議跟新聞產業數位平台的對平等對話那最近在你們的報告中又講到川普上台對等關稅的衝擊那所以"},{"start":475.202,"end":492.513,"text":"你們目前的計畫到底怎麼樣如何解決台灣媒體的集體困境是不是可以簡短回答我呢委員剛剛講的確實都是一些重點那我們當然就是說我們也很擔心新聞有價這件事情當然也是希望能夠越快定案越好"},{"start":492.833,"end":517.799,"text":"那只是說在這個時間點確實因為國際情勢跟技術都還有就是那個目前的像剛剛講尤其是那個澳洲跟加拿大目前的發展都是我們作為下一段階參考當然就是說這個東西希望能夠在也就是說這個關稅的問題都希望很快能夠解決然後呢看看這個加拿大跟澳洲怎麼去處理這個問題然後跟歐盟我們當然是希望越快越好"},{"start":518.439,"end":539.604,"text":"那我是主張一定要有速發布的版本我們立法院才能審議啦因為這個涉及到的議題非常的複雜那主席也知道嘛又涉及到關稅又涉及到媒體然後這中間的不同的部分每一個委員的版本可能都沒有辦法了解最新的狀況還有包括AI 剛剛講AI的侵權還有AI的部分這個問題比"},{"start":542.024,"end":566.265,"text":"委員所講兩年前又複雜很多我也要提一下速發部跟委員之間的溝通真的是太少了有一段時間好像停滯了直到這個召委要排這個部分是不是能夠更積極啊因為台灣媒體的困境已經很久了那你們現在就是Google分三年給的3億元的40個補助計畫是不是也能夠在你們同步"},{"start":567.546,"end":594.563,"text":"提出你們的版本的過程中也納入包含記者公會的聲音小型媒體 獨立媒體 獨立媒體的聲音還有就是說能不能夠評估那台灣媒體有沒有可能有一個共同的分潤平台如果就是說川普這個之後我們覺得有些制度比較高難度的話那我覺得速發部就是要出來解決這個問題因為為什麼我們要有速發部就是文化部 NCC 等等沒有辦法單獨處理這個問題好嗎"},{"start":596.964,"end":605.091,"text":"因為數位平台這個應該是你們就是說首先能夠面對的好嗎好 謝謝委員那多久之內可以給我一個報告"},{"start":609.568,"end":626.015,"text":"一個月之內一個月之內那到底你們這個版本的時程各方面那我是主張要有你們的版本我們再能夠進入逐條審議負責就是說立法委員個別的智慧都有限那我們擔心當然不希望傷害到台灣的媒體跟我們的民主好嗎好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":399,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（10時12分）謝謝召委，有請部長。"],["主席：好，黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["范委員雲：部長好。關於媒體議價法，首先要跟大家講的部分是，其實從2023年，也就是上一屆我就持續倡議新聞有價，這個部分在你們的報告中也多次表示支持。2023年2月15日，我就邀請學者專家還有我們的林楚茵委員等人，召開立法院首次公聽會，當天針對分潤機制和強制議價的設計，以及民主國家的第四權有滿多討論。2023年5月11日，我召開記者會，同時也正式提案，從我出示的這張照片中，你可以看到記者工會的朋友也有一起參與，代表這是媒體界不管是所謂的老板或者記者朋友、工會都很關心的事。2023年5月22日我特別來質詢，要求數發部進行評估。2023年11月我提出預算提案，要求研擬政策時程，可是我們都知道，到現在一直沒有部版。","我先簡單介紹我的版本的特色：我的版本是議價、基金雙軌制，議價部分是協商進行合理分潤，因為目前最主要的問題其實就是廣告的分潤，基本上大型平臺是自己做莊、自己兼球員，演算法的機制並沒有公開透明，所以對媒體來講，其實從2017年之後學者們的研究，就看到數位平臺獲得的廣告收益早已高過新聞媒體本身的廣告收益，資訊不揭露、談判不對等，所以如果媒體沒有辦法生存的話，其實傷害的就是我們知的權利，所以議價協商的部分如何合理分潤，它基本上就是解決媒體產業生存的問題，它彰顯的是新聞的price價格。為什麼我的版本會多一個基金鼓勵，主要是記者、朋友跟相關公會的意見，我們如何在這個過程中凸顯新聞的價值，所以我的版本中有設置基金管理委員會，其中學者專家、社會公正人士、公會及工會團體的代表不得少於四分之三。我知道後來我們立法院也有委員們辦公聽會的時候，有提到希望議價制度先行，基金很好，可以鼓勵小眾多元媒體新聞工作者，但是擔心的是，第一個，會不會有重複課稅，加重平臺負擔的問題；第二個，政府的手會不會伸入媒體，當然這跟基金的組成、審議有關。","另外是如何團結媒體，而大家擔心會不會分配不公的問題，我想你們目前在處理Google提供的錢的時候，其實也要面對相關的議題，我個人是覺得其實什麼樣的制度，對我來講，要解決現在媒體集體的困境，然後在這個過程中，如何讓新聞工作者也能夠發出聲音，參與相關的決策，保障少數沒有協商實力的多元媒體，是我希望數發部在這個數位時代能夠一起來思考的，所以對我來講，我並不會堅持一定要哪個制度，我覺得政府出面，當市場失敗的時候，能夠出來解決問題的就是政府，當然我們也知道，當我這個版本提出了一段時間，現在又有很多變化，日新月異，包含您剛剛講的關稅談判的問題，目前我們看到的不管是澳洲模式、加拿大模式，或者我剛剛沒有提的著作鄰接權，因為在當時我辦的公聽會中，很多學者就覺得這個比較不適用於臺灣，著作鄰接權雖然2023年歐盟27個會員國都完成國內法化，可是也看到Meta已經宣告2025年要終止他們的新聞推薦。我們也看到澳洲的情況，Meta在2024年3月也不再跟媒體續約，現在我看到的最新狀況是，去年年底澳洲政府又有了新的策略，我不知道他們主要……關稅主要就是澳洲的例子嘛！加拿大我們也看到了，他們遇到的情況比較偏向於用基金制，譬如Google就決定拿出1億的加幣免5年的協商，當然他一樣是遇到Meta的封鎖新聞，所以我覺得這個困境是很高的，可是到底怎麼解決？我覺得也不能夠沒有一個制度。當然我的版本另外一個重點是針對現在生成式AI的無償使用，我想部長也知道，紐約時報率先控告OpenAI微軟在未經同意下用新聞報導訓練生成式AI，我知道我們的AI基本法也會處理這個問題，但是我不知道哪一個會先，所以我的版本也納管生成式AI，主要就是促使數發部解決這個問題。紐約時報的官司，它的訴狀中最後寫到媒體的收入如果減少，深度採訪投入時間跟資源的記者也會跟著受害，這其實都是民主的危機，所以我覺得這是我們一個集體的困境。","我的第三個重點，跟很多委員不一樣的是，保障記者勞動條件跟聲音，如果新聞媒體經議價後的部分分潤應該要用於改善媒體記者的勞動條件，如果這個基金能夠成立的話，新聞媒體工作者也可以申請補助。我要跟大家講的是，加拿大的基金分配，其實他有去算媒體記者投入的時數跟他的總工時，這部分如果數發部有這個版本，我想你們的研究人員跟能力應該要比我們各立委辦公室強。我最後要提的是，因為時間到了，要講的其實一直不夠，我覺得我的版本初衷，為什麼我這麼早2023年就提出？我們看到新聞如果淪喪或者是不願意投入到有品質的新聞，其實就是民主的危機，因為假訊息這麼的多，所以如何強化民主韌性，這是關鍵字，就需要一起去面對大型數位平臺這麼龐大，是全球這樣的一個企業體，我們說數位主權，臺灣在這個數位主權這方面，當然你會講他很難去協商，但是我們有日本、韓國其他國家的例子，是不是數發部能夠更進一步促成？剛剛已經講了很多了，我知道你們有開了三輪八次會議跟新聞產業數位平臺的平等對話，最近在你們的報告中又講到川普上臺對等關稅的衝擊，所以你們目前的計畫到底怎麼樣，如何解決臺灣媒體的集體困境，是不是可以簡短回答我呢？"],["黃部長彥男：委員剛剛講的確實都是一些重點，我們當然很擔心，也很關心新聞有價這件事情，當然也是希望能夠越快定案越好，只是在這個時間點確實因為國際情勢跟技術，還有像剛剛講的，尤其是澳洲跟加拿大目前的發展都是我們作為下階段參考，當然這個部分包括關稅的問題，都希望趕快能夠settle，看看加拿大跟澳洲怎麼去處理這個問題，然後跟歐盟也是，我們當然是希望越快越好。"],["范委員雲：好。我是主張一定要有數發部的版本，我們立法院才能審議。"],["黃部長彥男：好，我們……"],["范委員雲：因為這涉及到的議題非常的複雜，主席也知道嘛！又涉及到關稅，又涉及到媒體，這中間不同的部分，每一個委員的版本可能都沒有辦法了解最新的狀況。"],["黃部長彥男：還有包括AI，剛剛講AI的侵權……"],["范委員雲：對，還有AI的部分。"],["黃部長彥男：所以這個問題比委員所講的兩年前又複雜得多……"],["范委員雲：我也要提一下，數發部跟委員之間的溝通真的是太少了。"],["黃部長彥男：好，我們會加強。"],["范委員雲：有一段時間好像停滯了，直到召委要排這個部分，是不是能夠更積極？因為臺灣媒體的困境已經很久了，現在就是Google分3年給的3億元，那40個補助計畫是不是也能夠在你們同步提出你們版本的過程中，也納入包含記者公會的聲音以及小型媒體、獨立媒體、多元媒體的聲音。還有，能不能夠評估臺灣媒體有沒有可能有一個共同的分潤平臺？如果川普之後，我們覺得有些制度比較高難度，那我覺得數發部就是要出來解決這個問題，我們為什麼要有數發部？就是文化部或NCC等等沒有辦法單獨處理這個問題，好嗎？因為數位平臺應該是你們首先能夠面對的，好嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員建議。"],["范委員雲：多久之內可以給我一個報告？"],["黃部長彥男：一個月吧！一個月之內，可以嗎？"],["范委員雲：一個月之內。到底你們這個版本的時程等各方面，我是主張要有你們的版本，我們再能夠進入逐條審議，否則立法委員個別的智慧都有限，我們會擔心，當然不希望傷害到臺灣的媒體跟我們的民主，好嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝。"],["范委員雲：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝范雲委員。","許智傑委員質詢完畢就休息10分鐘，先行跟委員會報告。","現在請林俊憲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":148,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-23,22-1","speakers":["林國成","王鴻薇","張啓楷","洪孟楷","林宜瑾","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","葛如鈞","范雲","林俊憲","蔡其昌","許智傑","郭昱晴","徐富癸","李昆澤","何欣純","陳素月","邱若華","廖先翔","魯明哲","陳培瑜","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","羅廷瑋","吳沛憶","葉元之","游顥","林楚茵","蔡易餘","張雅琳","柯志恩","萬美玲","黃健豪","劉書彬","翁曉玲"],"page_start":61,"meetingDate":["2025-05-01"],"gazette_id":"1144501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員林楚茵等17人擬具「新聞媒體與數位平台議價法草案」案；二、審查委員羅廷瑋等\n16人擬具「新聞媒體與數位平臺強制議價法草案」案；三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「新聞媒\n體與數位平臺強制議價法草案」案；四、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「新聞媒體與數位科技平台公\n平發展法草案」案；五、審查委員林宜瑾等21 人擬具「數位新聞發展與民主韌性法草案」案；\n六、審查委員范雲等21人擬具「數位新聞發展與民主韌性法草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1144501_00002"}}}