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752.834, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 752.834, \"end\": 752.934, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 752.934, \"end\": 753.194, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 753.194, \"end\": 753.214, \"score\": 0.031}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,166 --> 00:00:04,758\n謝謝主席請速發部黃部長好速發部黃部長\n\n2\n00:00:11,034 --> 00:00:37,159\n部長早部長我想今天這個大家都很關心立法院很多委員都提出了不同的版本那面對這個特別是新聞產業的困境大家都很知道這個內容生產在於辛苦的媒體記者但在平台業者的使用上面卻沒有任何的這種回饋機制或者收費的這個機制\n\n3\n00:00:39,557 --> 00:01:03,739\n在討論這個問題之前本席也有很多的疑惑今天也藉這個機會來請教一下速發部這個最近在網路上也很紅也很多關心體育的體育迷關心新聞假訊息的傳播學者大家都在關注這個題目這個題目很簡單有一家體育的媒體叫Top5\n\n4\n00:01:06,940 --> 00:01:27,818\n它每一個標題因為流量至上現在的網路世界民眾的訊息五成來自網路新聞訊息五成來自網路那來自網路又加上流量是關鍵甚至流量可以轉變成收入所以大家就開始\n\n5\n00:01:30,305 --> 00:01:51,230\n把標題誇張化甚至誇張到變成假的譬如說我隨便舉個例這個媒體的平台他的標題都很聳動我隨便舉個例子這個確定了中職直升大聯盟第二人徐若曦進軍費城人謝謝你魏全榮徐若曦還在魏全榮投球\n\n6\n00:01:52,503 --> 00:02:11,021\n沒有費城仁這件事情那唯一有的是什麼費城仁的球探去看徐若曦投球所以就確定了他就要去費城仁這不是如果是偶爾一次那就是說他可能是失誤啦我隨便再講幾乎啦每隔幾天可能就會有\n\n7\n00:02:13,290 --> 00:02:32,634\n這個神尊家法官駕目擊表態美國WBC夢幻外野陣容確定然後卡載卡載就是有資格在美國大聯盟祥偉蛇隊有資格參加台灣隊的選手叫卡洛他說卡洛確定卡載正式歸隊台灣天啊\n\n8\n00:02:35,950 --> 00:03:02,950\n我作為WBC國家隊的領隊我正在規劃七月有沒有可能我親自去美國去邀請卡仔可不可以拜託他來參加我們的台灣隊我就不用去啦他就已經確定了這個就公然這樣這只有兩則嘛那個下一頁你看這些全部都是啦全部啦我還沒全部列完耶還很多咧\n\n9\n00:03:04,242 --> 00:03:29,927\n張玉成說為何中職人讓人看不起張玉成攤牌大檸檬伙食桃園你吃那個連叉都不吃張玉成根本沒講這個話啦他只有接受媒體訪問媒體問他說請問你以前在大檸檬吃什麼他就講他在大檸檬吃什麼他沒有講說那個樂天桃園對你的那個叉都不吃啊他完全沒有講這個這就是標題阿強請問部長\n\n10\n00:03:32,796 --> 00:03:59,317\n我也不知道啦齁這個是你管的還是誰管的報告委員這個齁這個很多訊息我們我們我們大概沒有辦法去管因為很多訊息真假要專業判斷齁包括剛委員講的這個這個我們不應該由蘇華部來沒關係那這個到底是在中華民國的政府架構底下這個到底是誰管誰該為這個事情有一個態度出來這個NCC這個來來來NCC來來來\n\n11\n00:04:07,301 --> 00:04:33,908\n委員好那我這邊補充跟委員報告關於網路新聞的部分我們大概有在處理網路新聞自律這一塊的因為它目前是沒有作用法說是用自律的方式處理我們在去年底有發布這個網路新聞自律原則然後今年會做一個更往前去邁進一步就是要類似做他們一個聯盟或者一個組織的方式來處理那個聯盟會組織我們今年會有一個案子大概320萬會去做一個類似\n\n12\n00:04:36,589 --> 00:04:52,558\n類似以前那個公共監督的角色比方說我會去做一些觀察評價之類的那我們也這是今年度要做的事情那過往\n\n13\n00:04:53,158 --> 00:05:21,185\n到現在我們除了找這個網路新聞國內的網路新聞業者包括我們廣播業者的延伸自己做的還有一些自媒體我們都有邀請他們來做座談會也請相關政府部門來表達他們的對他們的期待跟需求也希望他們維持做好一個自律特別是要做事實查證剛剛委員所舉的很多東西其實是沒有事實查證的但是因為回到剛剛一開始講的\n\n14\n00:05:22,085 --> 00:05:47,474\n目前沒有作用法所以只能用自律的方式來處理但是我們會用公開間公開的方式用他律他自律的部分加上他律就是一個第三方式來一起做協作以上好所以其實簡單講我聽你們兩個講完就是沒有任何人在管簡單講就是這樣子嘛我聽完你們兩個解釋完就是NCC跟蘇發部對於這種這麼明顯誇張的\n\n15\n00:05:51,131 --> 00:06:17,819\n我其實知道啦我其實完全知道你們要講什麼啦因為所謂的假新聞在台灣這種高度對立的社會特別是政治高度對立的社會大家都負責互相指稱對方那個是假新聞所以讓我們很難去產生一個上帝這個上帝來判斷誰是真誰是假但是我們應該設計一個機制透過一個公開透明的機制\n\n16\n00:06:19,942 --> 00:06:40,405\n來做一點基本處理那像這種我只要求啦像這種他也不是什麼藍綠綠他就明顯當事人都在嘛就當事人都在我其實我也很簡單很多人來問我這個聯盟的會長說要怎麼處理因為我們聯盟都是受害者\n\n17\n00:06:41,893 --> 00:07:08,307\n那對我們該怎麼處理就是我現在面對政府官員你們在這裡我問你們說當這些事實這些都是明確都是假的因為都有辦法把當事人找來我們在藍綠工坊的假新聞裡面因為雙方都指責對方這是不對的那但是這種明顯受害然後呢也可以查證那你覺得我們應該怎麼處理比較好\n\n18\n00:07:09,454 --> 00:07:29,337\n跟委員補充報告不管是有作用法的領域跟現在沒有作用法的這個傳播的網路新聞媒體這一塊其實都有第三方的協力具體而言就是第三方查核的比方說我現在的第三方我要怎麼處理讓不在在台灣的這個\n\n19\n00:07:30,942 --> 00:07:47,631\n體育的市場上不再出現這種明顯誇張為了賺流量造假的這個新聞怎麼處理跟委員報告那個委員講的這個方向也是我們抒發不一直想要努力的方向但是自從川普在次當選總統以後事情又有一些變化\n\n20\n00:07:48,471 --> 00:08:10,625\n第一個就是美國本來那個META他是委託第三方的事實查核機構來做事實查核但是川普總統上任以後就是施壓那個META現在META已經停止跟美國的事實查核機構共同合作另外一件事情是在今年2025年2月26號美國FCC發了一封公開信給美國所有的媒體巨頭\n\n21\n00:08:11,765 --> 00:08:27,752\n裡面就講說如果這些包含那個META還有X等等他如果在其他的國家受到其他的國家的政府的施壓要求他們做一些言論審查那而且是違反就是美國憲法第一條修正案的精神那美國憲法第一條的時候\n\n22\n00:08:29,153 --> 00:08:52,807\n他們就必須跟美國報告他們說這是這些公司他們的責任也是他們的義務他們的權利那美國憲法第一條修正案那是美國人的看法他們認為說政府不應該涉入這種事實的基本上就是不應該涉入那個媒體的管制所以這件事情對我們來講的確是一個我們很想做但是現在又有點擔心的事情以上報告謝謝對對對但是喔這樣的解釋其實我簡單講啊\n\n23\n00:08:58,117 --> 00:09:27,138\n言論自由該不該有它的約束就美國講這個意思就是說所以美國也沒有言論自由是無限的我鼓勵殺人如果這是體育啊OK沒有問題那個美國憲法第一條修正案依照他們那個大法官過去的判例就是鼓勵殺人的話這是不像所以它有限制嘛有限制啊那你覺得中華民國應不應該也有限制就是我現在告訴你大家都知道這是假的\n\n24\n00:09:29,107 --> 00:09:47,394\n然後中華民國的政府告訴我他們沒辦法處理我只是問這個啦我常常在這裡講詐騙我講了很多很多的案例告訴你我也知道你們在那裡但是你們不可以給我雙手一攤說這就是自律啦大家自律\n\n25\n00:09:47,714 --> 00:10:04,356\n不好意思再跟委員報告補充一下在以前羅振偉時代他有主持一些會議其實對假訊息的定義是要有惡、假、害這三個要素構成然後呢有構成這個之後然後是做部會來聯訪成假、易假、破假\n\n26\n00:10:05,772 --> 00:10:25,798\n視角齁這個四個面向來做目前大致上是在平衡這個言論自由跟這個惡假害之間來做處理我瞭解啦我懂你的意思但我只是現我就我身為一個國會議員在這裡問你說當我遇到這樣子我要怎麼處理你們都一直跟我講原則你就跟我說我明天要去警察局報案嗎\n\n27\n00:10:27,577 --> 00:10:42,830\n我到底要怎麼處理嘛我一國會議員理事堂問你這個你都還沒辦法回答我你說一般的人遇到這問題他要怎麼處理我現在很簡單我不想跟你討論那些大道理啦我都知道我就告訴你言論自由我們不要選我們不想選一個上帝啦\n\n28\n00:10:43,837 --> 00:10:53,561\n但是問題是不能因為沒有上帝所以呢所以變成地獄嘛沒有這種事情嘛我現在就是在這裡問你說我回到這裡我也不知道要怎麼處理啊誰可以跟我說這款的假訊息不能這樣三五天就出現一次\n\n29\n00:11:00,864 --> 00:11:27,876\n對這個您如果把這個資料給我們我們可以跟META溝通我們可以有管道要求他們下架這沒問題對嘛你就是我要的就是你總是要讓台灣社會知道說就確定假訊息我們可以要求他們下架我們不想選上帝但我們不想台灣變地獄嘛這個我們可以處理就是把委員把資料給我們總是你要有一個方法不讓台灣變地獄嘛我們現在跟META有很好的溝通管道所以這個東西我們是有辦法去要求你們沒有版本我很了解啦這些法案你們沒有版本我很了解雖然我覺得\n\n30\n00:11:28,716 --> 00:11:52,406\n媒體的工作者很辛苦啦台灣的媒體產業再這樣搞下去媒體的環境是越來越艱困沒有人以後沒有人要生產內容嘛生產內容的人他都沒有任何得到任何回報我知道你們為什麼不敢沒有行政院的版本嘛因為很難啦澳洲的經驗加拿大的經驗都讓我們覺得沒那麼簡單啦\n\n31\n00:11:54,912 --> 00:12:16,182\n我都很清楚,但不可以這麼簡單,所以我們就放任整個台灣媒體也不要插名,讓他們都自生自滅這裡明顯,明顯我就跟你說這就是假的,不是偶爾出現就算了嘛,偶爾不小心犯錯,我們怎麼可以把人家這樣子這就接二連三一直出來,一直出來\n\n32\n00:12:17,483 --> 00:12:33,214\n在社會在體育圈也形成了一個很大的話題阿咱政府束手無策這話就沒辦法接受嘛部長你懂我的意思啦趕快處理啦我會後就把這資料給你嘛你們看該怎麼處理就趕快處理好不好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1166\t4758\t謝謝主席 請速發部黃部長好 速發部黃部長\n11034\t37159\t部長早部長我想今天這個大家都很關心立法院很多委員都提出了不同的版本那面對這個特別是新聞產業的困境大家都很知道這個內容生產在於辛苦的媒體記者但在平台業者的使用上面卻沒有任何的這種回饋機制或者收費的這個機制\n39557\t63739\t在討論這個問題之前本席也有很多的疑惑今天也藉這個機會來請教一下速發部這個最近在網路上也很紅也很多關心體育的體育迷關心新聞假訊息的傳播學者大家都在關注這個題目這個題目很簡單有一家體育的媒體叫Top5\n66940\t87818\t它每一個標題因為流量至上現在的網路世界民眾的訊息五成來自網路新聞訊息五成來自網路那來自網路又加上流量是關鍵甚至流量可以轉變成收入所以大家就開始\n90305\t111230\t把標題誇張化甚至誇張到變成假的譬如說我隨便舉個例這個媒體的平台他的標題都很聳動我隨便舉個例子這個確定了中職直升大聯盟第二人徐若曦進軍費城人謝謝你魏全榮徐若曦還在魏全榮投球\n112503\t131021\t沒有費城仁這件事情那唯一有的是什麼費城仁的球探去看徐若曦投球所以就確定了他就要去費城仁這不是 如果是偶爾一次 那就是說他可能是失誤啦我隨便再講 幾乎啦 每隔幾天可能就會有\n133290\t152634\t這個神尊家法官駕目擊表態美國WBC夢幻外野陣容確定然後卡載卡載就是有資格在美國大聯盟祥偉蛇隊有資格參加台灣隊的選手叫卡洛他說卡洛確定卡載正式歸隊台灣天啊\n155950\t182950\t我作為WBC國家隊的領隊我正在規劃七月有沒有可能我親自去美國去邀請卡仔可不可以拜託他來參加我們的台灣隊我就不用去啦 他就已經確定了 這個就公然這樣這只有兩則嘛 那個下一頁 你看這些全部都是啦全部啦 我還沒全部列完耶 還很多咧\n184242\t209927\t張玉成說為何中職人讓人看不起張玉成攤牌大檸檬伙食桃園你吃那個連叉都不吃張玉成根本沒講這個話啦他只有接受媒體訪問媒體問他說請問你以前在大檸檬吃什麼他就講他在大檸檬吃什麼他沒有講說那個樂天桃園對你的那個叉都不吃啊他完全沒有講這個這就是標題阿強請問部長\n212796\t239317\t我也不知道啦齁這個是你管的還是誰管的報告委員這個齁這個很多訊息我們我們我們大概沒有辦法去管因為很多訊息真假要專業判斷齁包括剛委員講的這個這個我們不應該由蘇華部來沒關係那這個到底是在中華民國的政府架構底下這個到底是誰管誰該為這個事情有一個態度出來這個NCC這個來來來NCC來來來\n247301\t273908\t委員好那我這邊補充跟委員報告關於網路新聞的部分我們大概有在處理網路新聞自律這一塊的因為它目前是沒有作用法說是用自律的方式處理我們在去年底有發布這個網路新聞自律原則然後今年會做一個更往前去邁進一步就是要類似做他們一個聯盟或者一個組織的方式來處理那個聯盟會組織我們今年會有一個案子大概320萬會去做一個類似\n276589\t292558\t類似以前那個公共監督的角色比方說我會去做一些觀察評價之類的那我們也這是今年度要做的事情那過往\n293158\t321185\t到現在我們除了找這個網路新聞國內的網路新聞業者包括我們廣播業者的延伸自己做的還有一些自媒體我們都有邀請他們來做座談會也請相關政府部門來表達他們的對他們的期待跟需求也希望他們維持做好一個自律特別是要做事實查證剛剛委員所舉的很多東西其實是沒有事實查證的但是因為回到剛剛一開始講的\n322085\t347474\t目前沒有作用法所以只能用自律的方式來處理但是我們會用公開間公開的方式用他律他自律的部分加上他律就是一個第三方式來一起做協作以上好所以其實簡單講我聽你們兩個講完就是沒有任何人在管簡單講就是這樣子嘛我聽完你們兩個解釋完就是NCC跟蘇發部對於這種這麼明顯誇張的\n351131\t377819\t我其實知道啦 我其實完全知道你們要講什麼啦因為所謂的假新聞在台灣這種高度對立的社會特別是政治高度對立的社會大家都負責 互相指稱對方那個是假新聞所以讓我們很難去產生一個上帝這個上帝來判斷誰是真誰是假但是我們應該設計一個機制透過一個公開透明的機制\n379942\t400405\t來做一點基本處理那像這種我只要求啦像這種他也不是什麼藍綠綠他就明顯當事人都在嘛就當事人都在我其實我也很簡單很多人來問我這個聯盟的會長說要怎麼處理因為我們聯盟都是受害者\n401893\t428307\t那對我們該怎麼處理就是我現在面對政府官員你們在這裡我問你們說當這些事實這些都是明確都是假的因為都有辦法把當事人找來我們在藍綠工坊的假新聞裡面因為雙方都指責對方這是不對的那但是這種明顯受害然後呢也可以查證那你覺得我們應該怎麼處理比較好\n429454\t449337\t跟委員補充報告不管是有作用法的領域跟現在沒有作用法的這個傳播的網路新聞媒體這一塊其實都有第三方的協力具體而言就是第三方查核的比方說我現在的第三方我要怎麼處理讓不在在台灣的這個\n450942\t467631\t體育的市場上不再出現這種明顯誇張為了賺流量造假的這個新聞怎麼處理跟委員報告那個委員講的這個方向也是我們抒發不一直想要努力的方向但是自從川普在次當選總統以後事情又有一些變化\n468471\t490625\t第一個就是美國本來那個META他是委託第三方的事實查核機構來做事實查核但是川普總統上任以後就是施壓那個META現在META已經停止跟美國的事實查核機構共同合作另外一件事情是在今年2025年2月26號美國FCC發了一封公開信給美國所有的媒體巨頭\n491765\t507752\t裡面就講說如果這些包含那個META還有X等等他如果在其他的國家受到其他的國家的政府的施壓要求他們做一些言論審查那而且是違反就是美國憲法第一條修正案的精神那美國憲法第一條的時候\n509153\t532807\t他們就必須跟美國報告他們說這是這些公司他們的責任也是他們的義務他們的權利那美國憲法第一條修正案那是美國人的看法他們認為說政府不應該涉入這種事實的基本上就是不應該涉入那個媒體的管制所以這件事情對我們來講的確是一個我們很想做但是現在又有點擔心的事情以上報告 謝謝對對對 但是喔這樣的解釋其實我簡單講啊\n538117\t567138\t言論自由該不該有它的約束就美國講這個意思就是說所以美國也沒有言論自由是無限的我鼓勵殺人如果這是體育啊OK沒有問題那個美國憲法第一條修正案依照他們那個大法官過去的判例就是鼓勵殺人的話這是不像所以它有限制嘛有限制啊那你覺得中華民國應不應該也有限制就是我現在告訴你大家都知道這是假的\n569107\t587394\t然後中華民國的政府告訴我他們沒辦法處理我只是問這個啦我常常在這裡講詐騙我講了很多很多的案例告訴你我也知道你們在那裡但是你們不可以給我雙手一攤說這就是自律啦大家自律\n587714\t604356\t不好意思再跟委員報告補充一下在以前羅振偉時代他有主持一些會議其實對假訊息的定義是要有惡、假、害這三個要素構成然後呢有構成這個之後然後是做部會來聯訪成假、易假、破假\n605772\t625798\t視角齁 這個四個面向來做 目前大致上是在平衡這個言論自由跟這個惡假害之間來做處理我瞭解啦 我懂你的意思 但我只是現 我就我身為一個國會議員在這裡問你說 當我遇到這樣子我要怎麼處理 你們都一直跟我講原則你就跟我說我明天要去警察局報案嗎\n627577\t642830\t我到底要怎麼處理嘛我一國會議員理事堂問你這個你都還沒辦法回答我你說一般的人遇到這問題他要怎麼處理我現在很簡單我不想跟你討論那些大道理啦我都知道我就告訴你言論自由我們不要選我們不想選一個上帝啦\n643837\t653561\t但是問題是不能因為沒有上帝所以呢所以變成地獄嘛沒有這種事情嘛我現在就是在這裡問你說我回到這裡我也不知道要怎麼處理啊誰可以跟我說這款的假訊息不能這樣三五天就出現一次\n660864\t687876\t對這個您如果把這個資料給我們我們可以跟META溝通我們可以有管道要求他們下架這沒問題對嘛你就是我要的就是你總是要讓台灣社會知道說就確定假訊息我們可以要求他們下架我們不想選上帝但我們不想台灣變地獄嘛這個我們可以處理就是把委員把資料給我們總是你要有一個方法不讓台灣變地獄嘛我們現在跟META有很好的溝通管道所以這個東西我們是有辦法去要求你們沒有版本我很了解啦這些法案你們沒有版本我很了解雖然我覺得\n688716\t712406\t媒體的工作者很辛苦啦台灣的媒體產業再這樣搞下去媒體的環境是越來越艱困沒有人以後沒有人要生產內容嘛生產內容的人他都沒有任何得到任何回報我知道你們為什麼不敢沒有行政院的版本嘛因為很難啦澳洲的經驗加拿大的經驗都讓我們覺得沒那麼簡單啦\n714912\t736182\t我都很清楚,但不可以這麼簡單,所以我們就放任整個台灣媒體也不要插名,讓他們都自生自滅這裡明顯,明顯我就跟你說這就是假的,不是偶爾出現就算了嘛,偶爾不小心犯錯,我們怎麼可以把人家這樣子這就接二連三一直出來,一直出來\n737483\t753214\t在社會在體育圈也形成了一個很大的話題阿咱政府束手無策這話就沒辦法接受嘛部長你懂我的意思啦趕快處理啦我會後就把這資料給你嘛你們看該怎麼處理就趕快處理好不好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 請速發部黃部長好 速發部黃部長\n部長早部長我想今天這個大家都很關心立法院很多委員都提出了不同的版本那面對這個特別是新聞產業的困境大家都很知道這個內容生產在於辛苦的媒體記者但在平台業者的使用上面卻沒有任何的這種回饋機制或者收費的這個機制\n在討論這個問題之前本席也有很多的疑惑今天也藉這個機會來請教一下速發部這個最近在網路上也很紅也很多關心體育的體育迷關心新聞假訊息的傳播學者大家都在關注這個題目這個題目很簡單有一家體育的媒體叫Top5\n它每一個標題因為流量至上現在的網路世界民眾的訊息五成來自網路新聞訊息五成來自網路那來自網路又加上流量是關鍵甚至流量可以轉變成收入所以大家就開始\n把標題誇張化甚至誇張到變成假的譬如說我隨便舉個例這個媒體的平台他的標題都很聳動我隨便舉個例子這個確定了中職直升大聯盟第二人徐若曦進軍費城人謝謝你魏全榮徐若曦還在魏全榮投球\n沒有費城仁這件事情那唯一有的是什麼費城仁的球探去看徐若曦投球所以就確定了他就要去費城仁這不是 如果是偶爾一次 那就是說他可能是失誤啦我隨便再講 幾乎啦 每隔幾天可能就會有\n這個神尊家法官駕目擊表態美國WBC夢幻外野陣容確定然後卡載卡載就是有資格在美國大聯盟祥偉蛇隊有資格參加台灣隊的選手叫卡洛他說卡洛確定卡載正式歸隊台灣天啊\n我作為WBC國家隊的領隊我正在規劃七月有沒有可能我親自去美國去邀請卡仔可不可以拜託他來參加我們的台灣隊我就不用去啦 他就已經確定了 這個就公然這樣這只有兩則嘛 那個下一頁 你看這些全部都是啦全部啦 我還沒全部列完耶 還很多咧\n張玉成說為何中職人讓人看不起張玉成攤牌大檸檬伙食桃園你吃那個連叉都不吃張玉成根本沒講這個話啦他只有接受媒體訪問媒體問他說請問你以前在大檸檬吃什麼他就講他在大檸檬吃什麼他沒有講說那個樂天桃園對你的那個叉都不吃啊他完全沒有講這個這就是標題阿強請問部長\n我也不知道啦齁這個是你管的還是誰管的報告委員這個齁這個很多訊息我們我們我們大概沒有辦法去管因為很多訊息真假要專業判斷齁包括剛委員講的這個這個我們不應該由蘇華部來沒關係那這個到底是在中華民國的政府架構底下這個到底是誰管誰該為這個事情有一個態度出來這個NCC這個來來來NCC來來來\n委員好那我這邊補充跟委員報告關於網路新聞的部分我們大概有在處理網路新聞自律這一塊的因為它目前是沒有作用法說是用自律的方式處理我們在去年底有發布這個網路新聞自律原則然後今年會做一個更往前去邁進一步就是要類似做他們一個聯盟或者一個組織的方式來處理那個聯盟會組織我們今年會有一個案子大概320萬會去做一個類似\n類似以前那個公共監督的角色比方說我會去做一些觀察評價之類的那我們也這是今年度要做的事情那過往\n到現在我們除了找這個網路新聞國內的網路新聞業者包括我們廣播業者的延伸自己做的還有一些自媒體我們都有邀請他們來做座談會也請相關政府部門來表達他們的對他們的期待跟需求也希望他們維持做好一個自律特別是要做事實查證剛剛委員所舉的很多東西其實是沒有事實查證的但是因為回到剛剛一開始講的\n目前沒有作用法所以只能用自律的方式來處理但是我們會用公開間公開的方式用他律他自律的部分加上他律就是一個第三方式來一起做協作以上好所以其實簡單講我聽你們兩個講完就是沒有任何人在管簡單講就是這樣子嘛我聽完你們兩個解釋完就是NCC跟蘇發部對於這種這麼明顯誇張的\n我其實知道啦 我其實完全知道你們要講什麼啦因為所謂的假新聞在台灣這種高度對立的社會特別是政治高度對立的社會大家都負責 互相指稱對方那個是假新聞所以讓我們很難去產生一個上帝這個上帝來判斷誰是真誰是假但是我們應該設計一個機制透過一個公開透明的機制\n來做一點基本處理那像這種我只要求啦像這種他也不是什麼藍綠綠他就明顯當事人都在嘛就當事人都在我其實我也很簡單很多人來問我這個聯盟的會長說要怎麼處理因為我們聯盟都是受害者\n那對我們該怎麼處理就是我現在面對政府官員你們在這裡我問你們說當這些事實這些都是明確都是假的因為都有辦法把當事人找來我們在藍綠工坊的假新聞裡面因為雙方都指責對方這是不對的那但是這種明顯受害然後呢也可以查證那你覺得我們應該怎麼處理比較好\n跟委員補充報告不管是有作用法的領域跟現在沒有作用法的這個傳播的網路新聞媒體這一塊其實都有第三方的協力具體而言就是第三方查核的比方說我現在的第三方我要怎麼處理讓不在在台灣的這個\n體育的市場上不再出現這種明顯誇張為了賺流量造假的這個新聞怎麼處理跟委員報告那個委員講的這個方向也是我們抒發不一直想要努力的方向但是自從川普在次當選總統以後事情又有一些變化\n第一個就是美國本來那個META他是委託第三方的事實查核機構來做事實查核但是川普總統上任以後就是施壓那個META現在META已經停止跟美國的事實查核機構共同合作另外一件事情是在今年2025年2月26號美國FCC發了一封公開信給美國所有的媒體巨頭\n裡面就講說如果這些包含那個META還有X等等他如果在其他的國家受到其他的國家的政府的施壓要求他們做一些言論審查那而且是違反就是美國憲法第一條修正案的精神那美國憲法第一條的時候\n他們就必須跟美國報告他們說這是這些公司他們的責任也是他們的義務他們的權利那美國憲法第一條修正案那是美國人的看法他們認為說政府不應該涉入這種事實的基本上就是不應該涉入那個媒體的管制所以這件事情對我們來講的確是一個我們很想做但是現在又有點擔心的事情以上報告 謝謝對對對 但是喔這樣的解釋其實我簡單講啊\n言論自由該不該有它的約束就美國講這個意思就是說所以美國也沒有言論自由是無限的我鼓勵殺人如果這是體育啊OK沒有問題那個美國憲法第一條修正案依照他們那個大法官過去的判例就是鼓勵殺人的話這是不像所以它有限制嘛有限制啊那你覺得中華民國應不應該也有限制就是我現在告訴你大家都知道這是假的\n然後中華民國的政府告訴我他們沒辦法處理我只是問這個啦我常常在這裡講詐騙我講了很多很多的案例告訴你我也知道你們在那裡但是你們不可以給我雙手一攤說這就是自律啦大家自律\n不好意思再跟委員報告補充一下在以前羅振偉時代他有主持一些會議其實對假訊息的定義是要有惡、假、害這三個要素構成然後呢有構成這個之後然後是做部會來聯訪成假、易假、破假\n視角齁 這個四個面向來做 目前大致上是在平衡這個言論自由跟這個惡假害之間來做處理我瞭解啦 我懂你的意思 但我只是現 我就我身為一個國會議員在這裡問你說 當我遇到這樣子我要怎麼處理 你們都一直跟我講原則你就跟我說我明天要去警察局報案嗎\n我到底要怎麼處理嘛我一國會議員理事堂問你這個你都還沒辦法回答我你說一般的人遇到這問題他要怎麼處理我現在很簡單我不想跟你討論那些大道理啦我都知道我就告訴你言論自由我們不要選我們不想選一個上帝啦\n但是問題是不能因為沒有上帝所以呢所以變成地獄嘛沒有這種事情嘛我現在就是在這裡問你說我回到這裡我也不知道要怎麼處理啊誰可以跟我說這款的假訊息不能這樣三五天就出現一次\n對這個您如果把這個資料給我們我們可以跟META溝通我們可以有管道要求他們下架這沒問題對嘛你就是我要的就是你總是要讓台灣社會知道說就確定假訊息我們可以要求他們下架我們不想選上帝但我們不想台灣變地獄嘛這個我們可以處理就是把委員把資料給我們總是你要有一個方法不讓台灣變地獄嘛我們現在跟META有很好的溝通管道所以這個東西我們是有辦法去要求你們沒有版本我很了解啦這些法案你們沒有版本我很了解雖然我覺得\n媒體的工作者很辛苦啦台灣的媒體產業再這樣搞下去媒體的環境是越來越艱困沒有人以後沒有人要生產內容嘛生產內容的人他都沒有任何得到任何回報我知道你們為什麼不敢沒有行政院的版本嘛因為很難啦澳洲的經驗加拿大的經驗都讓我們覺得沒那麼簡單啦\n我都很清楚,但不可以這麼簡單,所以我們就放任整個台灣媒體也不要插名,讓他們都自生自滅這裡明顯,明顯我就跟你說這就是假的,不是偶爾出現就算了嘛,偶爾不小心犯錯,我們怎麼可以把人家這樣子這就接二連三一直出來,一直出來\n在社會在體育圈也形成了一個很大的話題阿咱政府束手無策這話就沒辦法接受嘛部長你懂我的意思啦趕快處理啦我會後就把這資料給你嘛你們看該怎麼處理就趕快處理好不好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.166 --> 00:04.758\n謝謝主席請速發部黃部長好速發部黃部長\n\n00:11.034 --> 00:37.159\n部長早部長我想今天這個大家都很關心立法院很多委員都提出了不同的版本那面對這個特別是新聞產業的困境大家都很知道這個內容生產在於辛苦的媒體記者但在平台業者的使用上面卻沒有任何的這種回饋機制或者收費的這個機制\n\n00:39.557 --> 01:03.739\n在討論這個問題之前本席也有很多的疑惑今天也藉這個機會來請教一下速發部這個最近在網路上也很紅也很多關心體育的體育迷關心新聞假訊息的傳播學者大家都在關注這個題目這個題目很簡單有一家體育的媒體叫Top5\n\n01:06.940 --> 01:27.818\n它每一個標題因為流量至上現在的網路世界民眾的訊息五成來自網路新聞訊息五成來自網路那來自網路又加上流量是關鍵甚至流量可以轉變成收入所以大家就開始\n\n01:30.305 --> 01:51.230\n把標題誇張化甚至誇張到變成假的譬如說我隨便舉個例這個媒體的平台他的標題都很聳動我隨便舉個例子這個確定了中職直升大聯盟第二人徐若曦進軍費城人謝謝你魏全榮徐若曦還在魏全榮投球\n\n01:52.503 --> 02:11.021\n沒有費城仁這件事情那唯一有的是什麼費城仁的球探去看徐若曦投球所以就確定了他就要去費城仁這不是如果是偶爾一次那就是說他可能是失誤啦我隨便再講幾乎啦每隔幾天可能就會有\n\n02:13.290 --> 02:32.634\n這個神尊家法官駕目擊表態美國WBC夢幻外野陣容確定然後卡載卡載就是有資格在美國大聯盟祥偉蛇隊有資格參加台灣隊的選手叫卡洛他說卡洛確定卡載正式歸隊台灣天啊\n\n02:35.950 --> 03:02.950\n我作為WBC國家隊的領隊我正在規劃七月有沒有可能我親自去美國去邀請卡仔可不可以拜託他來參加我們的台灣隊我就不用去啦他就已經確定了這個就公然這樣這只有兩則嘛那個下一頁你看這些全部都是啦全部啦我還沒全部列完耶還很多咧\n\n03:04.242 --> 03:29.927\n張玉成說為何中職人讓人看不起張玉成攤牌大檸檬伙食桃園你吃那個連叉都不吃張玉成根本沒講這個話啦他只有接受媒體訪問媒體問他說請問你以前在大檸檬吃什麼他就講他在大檸檬吃什麼他沒有講說那個樂天桃園對你的那個叉都不吃啊他完全沒有講這個這就是標題阿強請問部長\n\n03:32.796 --> 03:59.317\n我也不知道啦齁這個是你管的還是誰管的報告委員這個齁這個很多訊息我們我們我們大概沒有辦法去管因為很多訊息真假要專業判斷齁包括剛委員講的這個這個我們不應該由蘇華部來沒關係那這個到底是在中華民國的政府架構底下這個到底是誰管誰該為這個事情有一個態度出來這個NCC這個來來來NCC來來來\n\n04:07.301 --> 04:33.908\n委員好那我這邊補充跟委員報告關於網路新聞的部分我們大概有在處理網路新聞自律這一塊的因為它目前是沒有作用法說是用自律的方式處理我們在去年底有發布這個網路新聞自律原則然後今年會做一個更往前去邁進一步就是要類似做他們一個聯盟或者一個組織的方式來處理那個聯盟會組織我們今年會有一個案子大概320萬會去做一個類似\n\n04:36.589 --> 04:52.558\n類似以前那個公共監督的角色比方說我會去做一些觀察評價之類的那我們也這是今年度要做的事情那過往\n\n04:53.158 --> 05:21.185\n到現在我們除了找這個網路新聞國內的網路新聞業者包括我們廣播業者的延伸自己做的還有一些自媒體我們都有邀請他們來做座談會也請相關政府部門來表達他們的對他們的期待跟需求也希望他們維持做好一個自律特別是要做事實查證剛剛委員所舉的很多東西其實是沒有事實查證的但是因為回到剛剛一開始講的\n\n05:22.085 --> 05:47.474\n目前沒有作用法所以只能用自律的方式來處理但是我們會用公開間公開的方式用他律他自律的部分加上他律就是一個第三方式來一起做協作以上好所以其實簡單講我聽你們兩個講完就是沒有任何人在管簡單講就是這樣子嘛我聽完你們兩個解釋完就是NCC跟蘇發部對於這種這麼明顯誇張的\n\n05:51.131 --> 06:17.819\n我其實知道啦我其實完全知道你們要講什麼啦因為所謂的假新聞在台灣這種高度對立的社會特別是政治高度對立的社會大家都負責互相指稱對方那個是假新聞所以讓我們很難去產生一個上帝這個上帝來判斷誰是真誰是假但是我們應該設計一個機制透過一個公開透明的機制\n\n06:19.942 --> 06:40.405\n來做一點基本處理那像這種我只要求啦像這種他也不是什麼藍綠綠他就明顯當事人都在嘛就當事人都在我其實我也很簡單很多人來問我這個聯盟的會長說要怎麼處理因為我們聯盟都是受害者\n\n06:41.893 --> 07:08.307\n那對我們該怎麼處理就是我現在面對政府官員你們在這裡我問你們說當這些事實這些都是明確都是假的因為都有辦法把當事人找來我們在藍綠工坊的假新聞裡面因為雙方都指責對方這是不對的那但是這種明顯受害然後呢也可以查證那你覺得我們應該怎麼處理比較好\n\n07:09.454 --> 07:29.337\n跟委員補充報告不管是有作用法的領域跟現在沒有作用法的這個傳播的網路新聞媒體這一塊其實都有第三方的協力具體而言就是第三方查核的比方說我現在的第三方我要怎麼處理讓不在在台灣的這個\n\n07:30.942 --> 07:47.631\n體育的市場上不再出現這種明顯誇張為了賺流量造假的這個新聞怎麼處理跟委員報告那個委員講的這個方向也是我們抒發不一直想要努力的方向但是自從川普在次當選總統以後事情又有一些變化\n\n07:48.471 --> 08:10.625\n第一個就是美國本來那個META他是委託第三方的事實查核機構來做事實查核但是川普總統上任以後就是施壓那個META現在META已經停止跟美國的事實查核機構共同合作另外一件事情是在今年2025年2月26號美國FCC發了一封公開信給美國所有的媒體巨頭\n\n08:11.765 --> 08:27.752\n裡面就講說如果這些包含那個META還有X等等他如果在其他的國家受到其他的國家的政府的施壓要求他們做一些言論審查那而且是違反就是美國憲法第一條修正案的精神那美國憲法第一條的時候\n\n08:29.153 --> 08:52.807\n他們就必須跟美國報告他們說這是這些公司他們的責任也是他們的義務他們的權利那美國憲法第一條修正案那是美國人的看法他們認為說政府不應該涉入這種事實的基本上就是不應該涉入那個媒體的管制所以這件事情對我們來講的確是一個我們很想做但是現在又有點擔心的事情以上報告謝謝對對對但是喔這樣的解釋其實我簡單講啊\n\n08:58.117 --> 09:27.138\n言論自由該不該有它的約束就美國講這個意思就是說所以美國也沒有言論自由是無限的我鼓勵殺人如果這是體育啊OK沒有問題那個美國憲法第一條修正案依照他們那個大法官過去的判例就是鼓勵殺人的話這是不像所以它有限制嘛有限制啊那你覺得中華民國應不應該也有限制就是我現在告訴你大家都知道這是假的\n\n09:29.107 --> 09:47.394\n然後中華民國的政府告訴我他們沒辦法處理我只是問這個啦我常常在這裡講詐騙我講了很多很多的案例告訴你我也知道你們在那裡但是你們不可以給我雙手一攤說這就是自律啦大家自律\n\n09:47.714 --> 10:04.356\n不好意思再跟委員報告補充一下在以前羅振偉時代他有主持一些會議其實對假訊息的定義是要有惡、假、害這三個要素構成然後呢有構成這個之後然後是做部會來聯訪成假、易假、破假\n\n10:05.772 --> 10:25.798\n視角齁這個四個面向來做目前大致上是在平衡這個言論自由跟這個惡假害之間來做處理我瞭解啦我懂你的意思但我只是現我就我身為一個國會議員在這裡問你說當我遇到這樣子我要怎麼處理你們都一直跟我講原則你就跟我說我明天要去警察局報案嗎\n\n10:27.577 --> 10:42.830\n我到底要怎麼處理嘛我一國會議員理事堂問你這個你都還沒辦法回答我你說一般的人遇到這問題他要怎麼處理我現在很簡單我不想跟你討論那些大道理啦我都知道我就告訴你言論自由我們不要選我們不想選一個上帝啦\n\n10:43.837 --> 10:53.561\n但是問題是不能因為沒有上帝所以呢所以變成地獄嘛沒有這種事情嘛我現在就是在這裡問你說我回到這裡我也不知道要怎麼處理啊誰可以跟我說這款的假訊息不能這樣三五天就出現一次\n\n11:00.864 --> 11:27.876\n對這個您如果把這個資料給我們我們可以跟META溝通我們可以有管道要求他們下架這沒問題對嘛你就是我要的就是你總是要讓台灣社會知道說就確定假訊息我們可以要求他們下架我們不想選上帝但我們不想台灣變地獄嘛這個我們可以處理就是把委員把資料給我們總是你要有一個方法不讓台灣變地獄嘛我們現在跟META有很好的溝通管道所以這個東西我們是有辦法去要求你們沒有版本我很了解啦這些法案你們沒有版本我很了解雖然我覺得\n\n11:28.716 --> 11:52.406\n媒體的工作者很辛苦啦台灣的媒體產業再這樣搞下去媒體的環境是越來越艱困沒有人以後沒有人要生產內容嘛生產內容的人他都沒有任何得到任何回報我知道你們為什麼不敢沒有行政院的版本嘛因為很難啦澳洲的經驗加拿大的經驗都讓我們覺得沒那麼簡單啦\n\n11:54.912 --> 12:16.182\n我都很清楚,但不可以這麼簡單,所以我們就放任整個台灣媒體也不要插名,讓他們都自生自滅這裡明顯,明顯我就跟你說這就是假的,不是偶爾出現就算了嘛,偶爾不小心犯錯,我們怎麼可以把人家這樣子這就接二連三一直出來,一直出來\n\n12:17.483 --> 12:33.214\n在社會在體育圈也形成了一個很大的話題阿咱政府束手無策這話就沒辦法接受嘛部長你懂我的意思啦趕快處理啦我會後就把這資料給你嘛你們看該怎麼處理就趕快處理好不好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.166,"end":4.758,"text":"謝謝主席 請速發部黃部長好 速發部黃部長"},{"start":11.034,"end":37.159,"text":"部長早部長我想今天這個大家都很關心立法院很多委員都提出了不同的版本那面對這個特別是新聞產業的困境大家都很知道這個內容生產在於辛苦的媒體記者但在平台業者的使用上面卻沒有任何的這種回饋機制或者收費的這個機制"},{"start":39.557,"end":63.739,"text":"在討論這個問題之前本席也有很多的疑惑今天也藉這個機會來請教一下速發部這個最近在網路上也很紅也很多關心體育的體育迷關心新聞假訊息的傳播學者大家都在關注這個題目這個題目很簡單有一家體育的媒體叫Top5"},{"start":66.94,"end":87.818,"text":"它每一個標題因為流量至上現在的網路世界民眾的訊息五成來自網路新聞訊息五成來自網路那來自網路又加上流量是關鍵甚至流量可以轉變成收入所以大家就開始"},{"start":90.305,"end":111.23,"text":"把標題誇張化甚至誇張到變成假的譬如說我隨便舉個例這個媒體的平台他的標題都很聳動我隨便舉個例子這個確定了中職直升大聯盟第二人徐若曦進軍費城人謝謝你魏全榮徐若曦還在魏全榮投球"},{"start":112.503,"end":131.021,"text":"沒有費城仁這件事情那唯一有的是什麼費城仁的球探去看徐若曦投球所以就確定了他就要去費城仁這不是 如果是偶爾一次 那就是說他可能是失誤啦我隨便再講 幾乎啦 每隔幾天可能就會有"},{"start":133.29,"end":152.634,"text":"這個神尊家法官駕目擊表態美國WBC夢幻外野陣容確定然後卡載卡載就是有資格在美國大聯盟祥偉蛇隊有資格參加台灣隊的選手叫卡洛他說卡洛確定卡載正式歸隊台灣天啊"},{"start":155.95,"end":182.95,"text":"我作為WBC國家隊的領隊我正在規劃七月有沒有可能我親自去美國去邀請卡仔可不可以拜託他來參加我們的台灣隊我就不用去啦 他就已經確定了 這個就公然這樣這只有兩則嘛 那個下一頁 你看這些全部都是啦全部啦 我還沒全部列完耶 還很多咧"},{"start":184.242,"end":209.927,"text":"張玉成說為何中職人讓人看不起張玉成攤牌大檸檬伙食桃園你吃那個連叉都不吃張玉成根本沒講這個話啦他只有接受媒體訪問媒體問他說請問你以前在大檸檬吃什麼他就講他在大檸檬吃什麼他沒有講說那個樂天桃園對你的那個叉都不吃啊他完全沒有講這個這就是標題阿強請問部長"},{"start":212.796,"end":239.317,"text":"我也不知道啦齁這個是你管的還是誰管的報告委員這個齁這個很多訊息我們我們我們大概沒有辦法去管因為很多訊息真假要專業判斷齁包括剛委員講的這個這個我們不應該由蘇華部來沒關係那這個到底是在中華民國的政府架構底下這個到底是誰管誰該為這個事情有一個態度出來這個NCC這個來來來NCC來來來"},{"start":247.301,"end":273.908,"text":"委員好那我這邊補充跟委員報告關於網路新聞的部分我們大概有在處理網路新聞自律這一塊的因為它目前是沒有作用法說是用自律的方式處理我們在去年底有發布這個網路新聞自律原則然後今年會做一個更往前去邁進一步就是要類似做他們一個聯盟或者一個組織的方式來處理那個聯盟會組織我們今年會有一個案子大概320萬會去做一個類似"},{"start":276.589,"end":292.558,"text":"類似以前那個公共監督的角色比方說我會去做一些觀察評價之類的那我們也這是今年度要做的事情那過往"},{"start":293.158,"end":321.185,"text":"到現在我們除了找這個網路新聞國內的網路新聞業者包括我們廣播業者的延伸自己做的還有一些自媒體我們都有邀請他們來做座談會也請相關政府部門來表達他們的對他們的期待跟需求也希望他們維持做好一個自律特別是要做事實查證剛剛委員所舉的很多東西其實是沒有事實查證的但是因為回到剛剛一開始講的"},{"start":322.085,"end":347.474,"text":"目前沒有作用法所以只能用自律的方式來處理但是我們會用公開間公開的方式用他律他自律的部分加上他律就是一個第三方式來一起做協作以上好所以其實簡單講我聽你們兩個講完就是沒有任何人在管簡單講就是這樣子嘛我聽完你們兩個解釋完就是NCC跟蘇發部對於這種這麼明顯誇張的"},{"start":351.131,"end":377.819,"text":"我其實知道啦 我其實完全知道你們要講什麼啦因為所謂的假新聞在台灣這種高度對立的社會特別是政治高度對立的社會大家都負責 互相指稱對方那個是假新聞所以讓我們很難去產生一個上帝這個上帝來判斷誰是真誰是假但是我們應該設計一個機制透過一個公開透明的機制"},{"start":379.942,"end":400.405,"text":"來做一點基本處理那像這種我只要求啦像這種他也不是什麼藍綠綠他就明顯當事人都在嘛就當事人都在我其實我也很簡單很多人來問我這個聯盟的會長說要怎麼處理因為我們聯盟都是受害者"},{"start":401.893,"end":428.307,"text":"那對我們該怎麼處理就是我現在面對政府官員你們在這裡我問你們說當這些事實這些都是明確都是假的因為都有辦法把當事人找來我們在藍綠工坊的假新聞裡面因為雙方都指責對方這是不對的那但是這種明顯受害然後呢也可以查證那你覺得我們應該怎麼處理比較好"},{"start":429.454,"end":449.337,"text":"跟委員補充報告不管是有作用法的領域跟現在沒有作用法的這個傳播的網路新聞媒體這一塊其實都有第三方的協力具體而言就是第三方查核的比方說我現在的第三方我要怎麼處理讓不在在台灣的這個"},{"start":450.942,"end":467.631,"text":"體育的市場上不再出現這種明顯誇張為了賺流量造假的這個新聞怎麼處理跟委員報告那個委員講的這個方向也是我們抒發不一直想要努力的方向但是自從川普在次當選總統以後事情又有一些變化"},{"start":468.471,"end":490.625,"text":"第一個就是美國本來那個META他是委託第三方的事實查核機構來做事實查核但是川普總統上任以後就是施壓那個META現在META已經停止跟美國的事實查核機構共同合作另外一件事情是在今年2025年2月26號美國FCC發了一封公開信給美國所有的媒體巨頭"},{"start":491.765,"end":507.752,"text":"裡面就講說如果這些包含那個META還有X等等他如果在其他的國家受到其他的國家的政府的施壓要求他們做一些言論審查那而且是違反就是美國憲法第一條修正案的精神那美國憲法第一條的時候"},{"start":509.153,"end":532.807,"text":"他們就必須跟美國報告他們說這是這些公司他們的責任也是他們的義務他們的權利那美國憲法第一條修正案那是美國人的看法他們認為說政府不應該涉入這種事實的基本上就是不應該涉入那個媒體的管制所以這件事情對我們來講的確是一個我們很想做但是現在又有點擔心的事情以上報告 謝謝對對對 但是喔這樣的解釋其實我簡單講啊"},{"start":538.117,"end":567.138,"text":"言論自由該不該有它的約束就美國講這個意思就是說所以美國也沒有言論自由是無限的我鼓勵殺人如果這是體育啊OK沒有問題那個美國憲法第一條修正案依照他們那個大法官過去的判例就是鼓勵殺人的話這是不像所以它有限制嘛有限制啊那你覺得中華民國應不應該也有限制就是我現在告訴你大家都知道這是假的"},{"start":569.107,"end":587.394,"text":"然後中華民國的政府告訴我他們沒辦法處理我只是問這個啦我常常在這裡講詐騙我講了很多很多的案例告訴你我也知道你們在那裡但是你們不可以給我雙手一攤說這就是自律啦大家自律"},{"start":587.714,"end":604.356,"text":"不好意思再跟委員報告補充一下在以前羅振偉時代他有主持一些會議其實對假訊息的定義是要有惡、假、害這三個要素構成然後呢有構成這個之後然後是做部會來聯訪成假、易假、破假"},{"start":605.772,"end":625.798,"text":"視角齁 這個四個面向來做 目前大致上是在平衡這個言論自由跟這個惡假害之間來做處理我瞭解啦 我懂你的意思 但我只是現 我就我身為一個國會議員在這裡問你說 當我遇到這樣子我要怎麼處理 你們都一直跟我講原則你就跟我說我明天要去警察局報案嗎"},{"start":627.577,"end":642.83,"text":"我到底要怎麼處理嘛我一國會議員理事堂問你這個你都還沒辦法回答我你說一般的人遇到這問題他要怎麼處理我現在很簡單我不想跟你討論那些大道理啦我都知道我就告訴你言論自由我們不要選我們不想選一個上帝啦"},{"start":643.837,"end":653.561,"text":"但是問題是不能因為沒有上帝所以呢所以變成地獄嘛沒有這種事情嘛我現在就是在這裡問你說我回到這裡我也不知道要怎麼處理啊誰可以跟我說這款的假訊息不能這樣三五天就出現一次"},{"start":660.864,"end":687.876,"text":"對這個您如果把這個資料給我們我們可以跟META溝通我們可以有管道要求他們下架這沒問題對嘛你就是我要的就是你總是要讓台灣社會知道說就確定假訊息我們可以要求他們下架我們不想選上帝但我們不想台灣變地獄嘛這個我們可以處理就是把委員把資料給我們總是你要有一個方法不讓台灣變地獄嘛我們現在跟META有很好的溝通管道所以這個東西我們是有辦法去要求你們沒有版本我很了解啦這些法案你們沒有版本我很了解雖然我覺得"},{"start":688.716,"end":712.406,"text":"媒體的工作者很辛苦啦台灣的媒體產業再這樣搞下去媒體的環境是越來越艱困沒有人以後沒有人要生產內容嘛生產內容的人他都沒有任何得到任何回報我知道你們為什麼不敢沒有行政院的版本嘛因為很難啦澳洲的經驗加拿大的經驗都讓我們覺得沒那麼簡單啦"},{"start":714.912,"end":736.182,"text":"我都很清楚,但不可以這麼簡單,所以我們就放任整個台灣媒體也不要插名,讓他們都自生自滅這裡明顯,明顯我就跟你說這就是假的,不是偶爾出現就算了嘛,偶爾不小心犯錯,我們怎麼可以把人家這樣子這就接二連三一直出來,一直出來"},{"start":737.483,"end":753.214,"text":"在社會在體育圈也形成了一個很大的話題阿咱政府束手無策這話就沒辦法接受嘛部長你懂我的意思啦趕快處理啦我會後就把這資料給你嘛你們看該怎麼處理就趕快處理好不好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":457,"blocks":[["蔡委員其昌：（10時32分）謝謝主席。請數發部黃部長。"],["主席：好，數發部黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["蔡委員其昌：部長早。部長，我想今天大家都很關心，立法院很多委員也都提出了不同的版本，面對這個特別是新聞產業的困境，大家都很知道內容生產在於辛苦的媒體記者，但在平臺業者的使用上卻沒有任何的回饋機制或者收費機制。在討論這個問題之前，本席也有很多的疑惑，今天也藉這個機會來請教一下數發部，最近在網路上也很紅，很多關心體育的體育迷及關心新聞假訊息的傳播學者，大家都在關注這個題目。","這個題目很簡單，有一家體育的媒體叫Top5，它每一個標題因為流量至上，且現在的網路世界，民眾的新聞訊息五成來自網路，又加上流量是關鍵，甚至流量可以轉變成收入，所以大家就開始把標題誇張化，甚至誇張到變成假的。這個媒體平臺的標題都很聳動，比如我隨便舉個例子：「確定了！中職直升大聯盟第2人徐若熙進軍費城人，謝謝你味全龍」，徐若熙還在味全龍投球，沒有費城人這件事情，唯一有的是什麼？費城人的球探去看徐若熙投球，所以就確定了他要去費城人。如果是偶爾一次，它可能是失誤，但幾乎每隔幾天可能就會有，我隨便再講：「神鱒+法官+木屐表態美國隊WBC夢幻外野陣容確定」，然後提到「卡仔」，「卡仔」就是在美國大聯盟響尾蛇隊有資格參加臺灣隊的選手叫卡洛，標題寫「卡仔正式歸隊臺灣」。天啊！我做為WBC國家隊的領隊，我正在規劃7月有沒有可能我親自去美國邀請卡仔，拜託他來參加我們的臺灣隊，現在這樣我就不用去了，因為他都已經確定了嘛！這個就公然這樣寫，你看這些全部都是，而且我還沒有全部列完，還有很多咧！「張育成說：為何中職人讓人看不起？」、「張育成攤牌大聯盟伙食，桃猿你那個×都不吃。」其實張育成根本沒講這個話，他只有接受媒體訪問，媒體問他說：請問你以前在大聯盟吃什麼？然後他就講他在大聯盟吃什麼，他並沒有說樂天桃猿你那個×都不吃啊！他完全沒有講這個，但這卻是標題啊！我想請問部長，這是你管的還是誰管的？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，很多訊息我們大概沒有辦法去管制，因為很多訊息的真假要專業判斷，包括剛剛委員講的這一個，這不應該由數發部來……"],["蔡委員其昌：沒關係，我只是想知道在中華民國的政府架構底下，這個到底是誰管？誰該為這件事情有一個態度出來？"],["黃部長彥男：NCC……"],["蔡委員其昌：來，請NCC說明。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：委員好，我跟委員補充報告，關於網路新聞的部分，我們有在處理網路新聞自律這一塊，因為它目前並沒有作用法，所以是用自律的方式處理，我們在去年底有發布網路新聞自律原則，然後今年會更往前邁進一步，就是要以一個類似聯盟或者組織的方式來處理。針對那個聯盟或者組織，我們今年會有一個案子，大概會用320萬去做一個類似公共監督的角色，比方我們會去做一些觀察、評價之類的，這是我們今年度要做的事情。從過往到現在，我們除了找國內的網路新聞業者，包括廣電業者延伸自己做的，還有一些自媒體，我們都有要求他們來參加座談會，也請相關政府部門表達對他們的期待及需求，希望他們能做好自律，特別是要做事實查證。剛剛委員所舉的很多東西其實是沒有事實查證的，但回到剛剛一開始講的，因為目前沒有作用法，所以只能用自律的方式來處理，但是我們會用公開的方式以自律加上他律，也就是以第三方的方式來一起協作，以上。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，我聽你們兩個講完就是沒有任何人在管，簡單講就是這樣子，我聽你們兩個解釋完，就是NCC和數發部對於這種這麼明顯誇張的……其實我完全知道你們要講什麼，因為所謂的假新聞在臺灣這種高度對立的社會，特別是政治高度對立的社會，大家都互相指稱對方那個是假新聞，所以我們很難去產生一個上帝，由這個上帝來判斷誰是真、誰是假，但是我們應該設計一個機制，透過一個公開透明的機制來做一點基本處理，我只要求這樣，像這種也不是什麼藍綠對立，它很明顯當事人都在嘛！其實很多人來問我，像這個聯盟的會長說這要怎麼處理，因為我們的聯盟都是受害者嘛！究竟我們該怎麼處理？現在政府官員在這裡，我問你們說這些很明確都是假的，因為都有辦法把當事人找來，在藍綠攻防的假新聞裡面，因為雙方都指責對方是不對的，但是這種明顯受害而且也可以查證，你覺得我們應該怎麼處理比較好？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：跟委員補充報告，不管是有作用法的領域或是現在沒有作用法的網路新聞媒體這一塊，其實都有第三方的協力，具體而言就是第三方的查核，比方事實查核……"],["蔡委員其昌：我的問題是現在的第三方要怎麼處理，讓臺灣的體育市場上不再出現這種明顯誇張、為了賺流量而造假的新聞？這怎麼處理？"],["林次長宜敬：跟委員報告，委員講的方向也是數發部一直想要努力的方向，但是自從川普再次當選總統以後，事情又有一些變化，第一個是美國Meta本來是委託第三方事實查核機構來做事實查核，但是川普總統上任以後開始施壓Meta，現在Meta已經停止跟美國的事實查核機構共同合作。另外一件事情是在今年（2025年）2月26號美國FCC發了一封公開信給美國所有的媒體巨頭，裡面提到包含Meta和X等等如果受到其他國家的政府施壓，要求他們做一些言論審查，而且違反美國憲法第一條修正案精神的時候，他們就必須跟美國報告，這是這些公司的責任，也是他們的權利。關於美國憲法第一條修正案，那是美國人的看法，他們認為政府基本上不應該涉入媒體的管制，所以這件事情對我們來講的確是一個我們很想做，但是現在又有點擔心的事情，以上報告。"],["蔡委員其昌：謝謝，但是對於這樣的解釋……簡單來講，言論自由該不該有它的約束？美國講這個的意思就是說美國也沒有言論自由是無限的，例如鼓勵殺人……如果這是體育，OK沒有問題……"],["林次長宜敬：以美國憲法第一條修正案而言，依照他們大法官過去的判例，如果鼓勵殺人的話，這是……"],["蔡委員其昌：所以它有限制嘛！"],["林次長宜敬：有限制，但是……"],["蔡委員其昌：那你覺得中華民國應不應該也有限制？就是說我現在告訴你大家都知道這是假的，然後中華民國的政府告訴我沒有辦法處理，我只是問這個啦，我常常在這裡講詐騙，我告訴你們很多很多的案例，我也知道你們在關注，但是你們不可以給我雙手一攤說這就是大家自律啦！"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：不好意思，再跟委員補充報告一下，在以前羅政委時代他有主持一些會議，其實對假訊息的定義要有惡、假、害這三個要素構成，然後由部會來聯防，從識假、破假、抑假、懲假四個面向來做，目前大致上是以平衡言論自由及惡假害的方向來處理。"],["蔡委員其昌：我了解啦，我懂你的意思，我身為一個國會議員在這裡問你說，當我遇到這樣子的狀況要怎麼處理，你們都一直跟我講原則，其實你就直接告訴我，我明天要去警察局報案嗎？我到底要怎麼處理嘛！我一個國會議員在議事堂問你這個問題，你都沒辦法回答我，你說一般的人遇到這個問題他要怎麼處理？我現在只是很簡單的問你，我不跟你討論那些大道理，那些道理我都知道，我就告訴你，關於言論自由，我們不想選一個上帝，但問題是不能因為沒有上帝，所以就變成地獄，沒有這種事情嘛！我現在就是在這裡問你，遇到這種狀況我也不知道該怎麼處理啊！到底誰可以解決這種假訊息？總不能像這樣三、五天就出現一次，就是這樣而已。"],["黃部長彥男：委員，您如果把資料給我們，我們可以跟Meta溝通，我們有管道可以要求他們下架，這沒問題。"],["蔡委員其昌：對嘛，你總是要讓臺灣社會知道……"],["黃部長彥男：這種確定的假訊息，我們可以要求它下架。"],["蔡委員其昌：我們不想選上帝，但我們不想臺灣變地獄嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：這個我們可以處理，麻煩委員把資料給我們。"],["蔡委員其昌：總是要有一個方法不讓臺灣變地獄嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：我們現在跟Meta有很好的溝通管道，所以這個東西我們有辦法要求他們下架。"],["蔡委員其昌：針對這些法案你們沒有版本我很了解，雖然我覺得媒體工作者很辛苦，但臺灣的媒體產業再這樣搞下去，媒體的環境會越來越艱困，以後沒有人要生產內容嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：生產內容的人都沒有得到任何回報，我知道你們為什麼沒有行政院的版本，因為很難啦！澳洲的經驗、加拿大的經驗都讓我們覺得沒那麼簡單，這些我都很清楚，但不能因為沒那麼簡單，所以我們就放任全臺灣的媒體都不理他們，讓他們自生自滅。我已經跟你說這很明顯是假的，如果它是偶爾出現，那我們就算了，因為它偶爾不不小心犯錯，我們怎麼可以把人家……但這是接二連三一直出現，在社會及體育圈也形成一個很大的話題，結果我們的政府束手無策，這樣我就沒辦法接受。部長，相信你懂我的意思，趕快處理啦！"],["黃部長彥男：好，我們會……"],["蔡委員其昌：我會後就把這些資料給你，你們看該怎麼處理就趕快處理好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["蔡委員其昌：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蔡其昌副院長。等一下許智傑委員質詢完畢後，我們要休息10分鐘。","現在請許智傑召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":148,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-23,22-1","speakers":["林國成","王鴻薇","張啓楷","洪孟楷","林宜瑾","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","葛如鈞","范雲","林俊憲","蔡其昌","許智傑","郭昱晴","徐富癸","李昆澤","何欣純","陳素月","邱若華","廖先翔","魯明哲","陳培瑜","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","羅廷瑋","吳沛憶","葉元之","游顥","林楚茵","蔡易餘","張雅琳","柯志恩","萬美玲","黃健豪","劉書彬","翁曉玲"],"page_start":61,"meetingDate":["2025-05-01"],"gazette_id":"1144501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員林楚茵等17人擬具「新聞媒體與數位平台議價法草案」案；二、審查委員羅廷瑋等\n16人擬具「新聞媒體與數位平臺強制議價法草案」案；三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「新聞媒\n體與數位平臺強制議價法草案」案；四、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「新聞媒體與數位科技平台公\n平發展法草案」案；五、審查委員林宜瑾等21 人擬具「數位新聞發展與民主韌性法草案」案；\n六、審查委員范雲等21人擬具「數位新聞發展與民主韌性法草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1144501_00002"}}}