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{\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 512.962, \"end\": 513.383, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 513.383, \"end\": 513.483, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 513.483, \"end\": 513.503, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,129 --> 00:00:25,858\n先謝謝林國成、趙偉好感謝好那我們請部長好黃部長部長好部長其實之前唐鳳當部長的時候那個時候有跟Google跟Meta他們對話過\n\n2\n00:00:28,408 --> 00:00:32,222\n所以當時其實我也曾經要求過很多次就是說有沒有機會\n\n3\n00:00:34,157 --> 00:00:58,536\n讓數化部創造這個平台那這個平台能夠發揮一些溝通的功能那的確就是Google也從2023年有三年出資三億建立台灣新聞數位共同基金那這個的確是數化部的作為有效果出來那我們眼看2023年到2025年\n\n4\n00:01:02,096 --> 00:01:27,627\n那明年2026有可能有類似的機制嗎這個我們也跟委員一樣關心說我們跟Google詢問過Google說還有一年多的時間它希望能夠知道它的成效之後再跟總部這邊才有辦法去爭取更多的資源所以它還是要看這三年的執行結果OK那就接續剛才蔡警長委員提到的這個問題\n\n5\n00:01:29,255 --> 00:01:52,688\n事實上我們不能束手無策那剛剛部長也有提到就是說你們可以跟Meta去反應這些問題那我們來看就是GoogleMeta如果有類似這樣子一個共同基金那也許用這個基金就可以創造另外一個就是解決這些問題的人出來\n\n6\n00:01:56,093 --> 00:02:16,497\n所以我是這樣子建議啦因為現在的網路新聞真的是真真假假假假真真啦很多有的是虛假的訊息但是你會造成人民很大的困擾那現在是誰流量大說話大聲沒的沒吃的就靠他流量也亂講又不用負責任\n\n7\n00:02:20,747 --> 00:02:46,480\n所以就是說我們希望說就是以NCC跟我們的那個數學部的角度如何去杜絕類似這樣子一個虛假的言論那這個虛假言論如果一旦出現之後那數學部跟NCC有什麼作為就類似剛才部長提到可以跟META反映之外你覺得還有什麼方式\n\n8\n00:02:48,140 --> 00:03:12,431\n再就想說判斷真假當然這個是就是要由專業去判斷那判斷真假之後那個管道當然就是說我們跟Meta有一些平台管道可以直接跟他們溝通那當然剛剛主委有講到說那個可能有一些作用法一些法可以讓這個東西可以更有一個法制化這邊是不是請主委再說明一下\n\n9\n00:03:13,437 --> 00:03:33,208\n跟委員補充如果是我們NCC所管的管理業者我們會要求他事實查證而且會有相當的法律效果就是說如果他違反的話這邊會有衛管法或管理法律相處理那至於說自媒體的網路那一塊除了說我們現在用這個要求他們自立\n\n10\n00:03:34,148 --> 00:03:55,701\n時時刻刻提醒他們之外其實IAWIN本身雖然他是處理兒少為主但是如果一般的網路上的一些申訴通報他們他們一樣是跟這個Google或者Meta一樣有聯繫管道一樣可以協力來處理所以現在就是說這個我們NCC跟數化部都有一個單位可以受理\n\n11\n00:03:57,628 --> 00:04:12,507\n都沒問題嗎就是如果要下就確定這個新聞是假新聞或者是有危害的新聞我們是有管道去跟NCC是這速發部跟NCC有個單位我們直接跟誰反應\n\n12\n00:04:13,666 --> 00:04:35,951\n我們這邊是可以是個協力啦就是說透過iWIN這個窗口它雖然主要受惹哨但是非惹哨的議題的部分網路上的東西透過他們來受惹哨一樣可以透過他們去跟相關的那大型平台業者來反映他們本身會有一個自律規範跟社群守則他們會依據他們的處理我舉個簡單的例子啦就像詐騙就打165吧\n\n13\n00:04:37,796 --> 00:04:58,733\n那我如果遇到這個東西是速發部負責還是NCC負責那我要找誰因為部長講可以反應但是速發部單位這麼大我們要找誰是不是有個固定的窗口提供給民眾那民眾要來使用遇到這些假訊息可以及時反應是不是就會比較清楚\n\n14\n00:04:59,273 --> 00:05:28,545\n我們有一些那個我們請素材署跟委員報告我們有加入這個iWIN的組織所以我們這邊也可以來承接這個安置然後我們請iWIN來幫忙所以是跟蘇華部的蘇華部我們這邊有跟iWIN有窗口我知道你們有說民眾跟你們窗口要找誰我們這邊有那個進箱這片的第一道窗口就是165一般民都可以打\n\n15\n00:05:29,921 --> 00:05:32,645\n所以假訊息也算詐騙假訊息也打165嗎165會傳給你們嗎\n\n16\n00:05:38,392 --> 00:06:01,255\n我們這邊是沒有直接受理但是我們有些同仁會受理但是比較多的還是過往都是I-WIN來受理比較為主對啦所以你們研究一下看民眾如果找誰比較方便就直接你們把這個窗口訂出來嘛這樣子民眾要處理是不是就比較簡單沒有假訊息就剛剛講說I-WIN是一個窗口不過我們再看看OK那媒體意見我想剛剛其昌\n\n17\n00:06:03,376 --> 00:06:31,420\n委員也提到澳洲跟加拿大這個其實是有困難沒有錯啦所以我們要定這個法到底法則要到什麼程度或者是要共融到什麼程度那以及就是說現在歐盟使用的這個著作權臨階模式或者是說我們的強制溢價模式那現在我們書畫部有沒有什麼想法這大概會用哪個模式\n\n18\n00:06:32,281 --> 00:07:00,763\n就是剛剛就前面都有報告過就是說我們現在是沒有特定立場那持續還在研究跟關注現在國際發展所以我們也是希望儘快尤其在關稅這問題解決之後儘快瞭解這個世界各國採取的方式哪個方式有效我們就當然一定要儘快的處理所以現在只是說那個以目前來講我們沒有特定立場因為兩個模式都有一些缺失\n\n19\n00:07:01,423 --> 00:07:26,093\n那當然這個剛剛講共農基金是目前在台灣已經在進行的模式那我們會在這個裡面再繼續鼓勵讓共農基金的模式能夠繼續發展跟成長不過立法這個東西我們希望盡快但是在目前這個時間點需要再觀察OK時間到了我們簡單結論就是說你要用強制溢價的立法這個優缺點在哪裡\n\n20\n00:07:27,054 --> 00:07:42,645\n那我們的駐州權連接模式這個歐盟採用的比較廣泛那速發部是不是有立場或想法那也希望說整理一下讓我知道一下那最後就是這個工農基金\n\n21\n00:07:43,405 --> 00:08:01,445\n共同基金我是覺得目前我們是三億嘛對不對三年三億一年一億有機會再更多當然我們盡量去爭取那爭取到了以後這些基金事實上就是不管是著作權的他應該要有的收費也好或者是說民眾反映的這個\n\n22\n00:08:02,586 --> 00:08:19,257\n假訊息處理我覺得這部分蘇發部跟NCC可以做一個規劃這個有錢可以用我們就把它用發揮它的效率嘛就杜絕減少這樣子一個假訊息的擴散跟蔓延那你們也可以盡快的跟Meta或者是相關的\n\n23\n00:08:19,857 --> 00:08:33,503\n部門請他們盡快的去下架等等的這些速度要如何加快讓人民很快就能夠跟你們反應那很快就能夠處理我想這個是最實際有效的希望說這個部分你們也規劃一下好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1129\t25858\t先謝謝林國成、趙偉好感謝好那我們請部長好黃部長部長好部長其實之前唐鳳當部長的時候那個時候有跟Google跟Meta他們對話過\n28408\t32222\t所以當時其實我也曾經要求過很多次就是說有沒有機會\n34157\t58536\t讓數化部創造這個平台那這個平台能夠發揮一些溝通的功能那的確就是Google也從2023年有三年出資三億建立台灣新聞數位共同基金那這個的確是數化部的作為有效果出來那我們眼看2023年到2025年\n62096\t87627\t那明年2026有可能有類似的機制嗎這個我們也跟委員一樣關心說我們跟Google詢問過Google說還有一年多的時間它希望能夠知道它的成效之後再跟總部這邊才有辦法去爭取更多的資源所以它還是要看這三年的執行結果OK 那就接續剛才蔡警長委員提到的這個問題\n89255\t112688\t事實上我們不能束手無策那剛剛部長也有提到就是說你們可以跟Meta去反應這些問題那我們來看就是Google Meta如果有類似這樣子一個共同基金那也許用這個基金就可以創造另外一個就是解決這些問題的人出來\n116093\t136497\t所以我是這樣子建議啦 因為現在的網路新聞真的是真真假假假假真真啦很多有的是虛假的訊息 但是你會造成人民很大的困擾那現在是誰流量大 說話大聲 沒的沒吃的就靠他流量也亂講又不用負責任\n140747\t166480\t所以就是說我們希望說就是以NCC跟我們的那個數學部的角度如何去杜絕類似這樣子一個虛假的言論那這個虛假言論如果一旦出現之後那數學部跟NCC有什麼作為就類似剛才部長提到可以跟META反映之外你覺得還有什麼方式\n168140\t192431\t再就想說判斷真假當然這個是就是要由專業去判斷那判斷真假之後那個管道當然就是說我們跟Meta有一些平台管道可以直接跟他們溝通那當然剛剛主委有講到說那個可能有一些作用法一些法可以讓這個東西可以更有一個法制化這邊是不是請主委再說明一下\n193437\t213208\t跟委員補充 如果是我們NCC所管的管理業者我們會要求他事實查證 而且會有相當的法律效果就是說如果他違反的話 這邊會有衛管法或管理法律相處理那至於說自媒體的網路那一塊 除了說我們現在用這個要求他們自立\n214148\t235701\t時時刻刻提醒他們之外其實IAWIN本身雖然他是處理兒少為主但是如果一般的網路上的一些申訴通報他們他們一樣是跟這個Google或者Meta一樣有聯繫管道一樣可以協力來處理所以現在就是說這個我們NCC跟數化部都有一個單位可以受理\n237628\t252507\t都沒問題嗎就是如果要下就確定這個新聞是假新聞或者是有危害的新聞我們是有管道去跟NCC是這速發部跟NCC有個單位我們直接跟誰反應\n253666\t275951\t我們這邊是可以是個協力啦就是說透過iWIN這個窗口它雖然主要受惹哨但是非惹哨的議題的部分網路上的東西透過他們來受惹哨一樣可以透過他們去跟相關的那大型平台業者來反映他們本身會有一個自律規範跟社群守則他們會依據他們的處理我舉個簡單的例子啦就像詐騙就打165吧\n277796\t298733\t那我如果遇到這個東西是速發部負責還是NCC負責那我要找誰因為部長講可以反應但是速發部單位這麼大我們要找誰是不是有個固定的窗口提供給民眾那民眾要來使用遇到這些假訊息可以及時反應是不是就會比較清楚\n299273\t328545\t我們有一些那個我們請素材署跟委員報告我們有加入這個iWIN的組織所以我們這邊也可以來承接這個安置然後我們請iWIN來幫忙所以是跟蘇華部的蘇華部我們這邊有跟iWIN有窗口我知道你們有說民眾跟你們窗口要找誰我們這邊有那個進箱這片的第一道窗口就是165一般民都可以打\n329921\t332645\t所以假訊息也算詐騙假訊息也打165嗎165會傳給你們嗎\n338392\t361255\t我們這邊是沒有直接受理 但是我們有些同仁會受理但是比較多的還是過往都是I-WIN來受理比較為主對啦 所以你們研究一下看民眾如果找誰比較方便就直接你們把這個窗口訂出來嘛這樣子民眾要處理是不是就比較簡單沒有假訊息 就剛剛講說I-WIN是一個窗口 不過我們再看看OK 那媒體意見我想剛剛其昌\n363376\t391420\t委員也提到澳洲跟加拿大這個其實是有困難沒有錯啦所以我們要定這個法 到底法則要到什麼程度 或者是要共融到什麼程度那以及就是說現在歐盟使用的這個著作權 臨階模式或者是說我們的強制溢價模式 那現在我們書畫部有沒有什麼想法 這大概會用哪個模式\n392281\t420763\t就是剛剛就前面都有報告過就是說我們現在是沒有特定立場那持續還在研究跟關注現在國際發展所以我們也是希望儘快尤其在關稅這問題解決之後儘快瞭解這個世界各國採取的方式哪個方式有效我們就當然一定要儘快的處理所以現在只是說那個以目前來講我們沒有特定立場因為兩個模式都有一些缺失\n421423\t446093\t那當然這個剛剛講共農基金是目前在台灣已經在進行的模式那我們會在這個裡面再繼續鼓勵讓共農基金的模式能夠繼續發展跟成長不過立法這個東西我們希望盡快但是在目前這個時間點需要再觀察OK 時間到了我們簡單結論就是說你要用強制溢價的立法這個優缺點在哪裡\n447054\t462645\t那我們的駐州權連接模式這個歐盟採用的比較廣泛那速發部是不是有立場或想法那也希望說整理一下讓我知道一下那最後就是這個工農基金\n463405\t481445\t共同基金我是覺得目前我們是三億嘛對不對三年三億一年一億有機會再更多當然我們盡量去爭取那爭取到了以後這些基金事實上就是不管是著作權的他應該要有的收費也好或者是說民眾反映的這個\n482586\t499257\t假訊息處理我覺得這部分蘇發部跟NCC可以做一個規劃這個有錢可以用我們就把它用發揮它的效率嘛就杜絕減少這樣子一個假訊息的擴散跟蔓延那你們也可以盡快的跟Meta或者是相關的\n499857\t513503\t部門請他們盡快的去下架等等的這些速度要如何加快讓人民很快就能夠跟你們反應那很快就能夠處理我想這個是最實際有效的希望說這個部分你們也規劃一下好不好 好 謝謝\n","txt":"先謝謝林國成、趙偉好感謝好那我們請部長好黃部長部長好部長其實之前唐鳳當部長的時候那個時候有跟Google跟Meta他們對話過\n所以當時其實我也曾經要求過很多次就是說有沒有機會\n讓數化部創造這個平台那這個平台能夠發揮一些溝通的功能那的確就是Google也從2023年有三年出資三億建立台灣新聞數位共同基金那這個的確是數化部的作為有效果出來那我們眼看2023年到2025年\n那明年2026有可能有類似的機制嗎這個我們也跟委員一樣關心說我們跟Google詢問過Google說還有一年多的時間它希望能夠知道它的成效之後再跟總部這邊才有辦法去爭取更多的資源所以它還是要看這三年的執行結果OK 那就接續剛才蔡警長委員提到的這個問題\n事實上我們不能束手無策那剛剛部長也有提到就是說你們可以跟Meta去反應這些問題那我們來看就是Google Meta如果有類似這樣子一個共同基金那也許用這個基金就可以創造另外一個就是解決這些問題的人出來\n所以我是這樣子建議啦 因為現在的網路新聞真的是真真假假假假真真啦很多有的是虛假的訊息 但是你會造成人民很大的困擾那現在是誰流量大 說話大聲 沒的沒吃的就靠他流量也亂講又不用負責任\n所以就是說我們希望說就是以NCC跟我們的那個數學部的角度如何去杜絕類似這樣子一個虛假的言論那這個虛假言論如果一旦出現之後那數學部跟NCC有什麼作為就類似剛才部長提到可以跟META反映之外你覺得還有什麼方式\n再就想說判斷真假當然這個是就是要由專業去判斷那判斷真假之後那個管道當然就是說我們跟Meta有一些平台管道可以直接跟他們溝通那當然剛剛主委有講到說那個可能有一些作用法一些法可以讓這個東西可以更有一個法制化這邊是不是請主委再說明一下\n跟委員補充 如果是我們NCC所管的管理業者我們會要求他事實查證 而且會有相當的法律效果就是說如果他違反的話 這邊會有衛管法或管理法律相處理那至於說自媒體的網路那一塊 除了說我們現在用這個要求他們自立\n時時刻刻提醒他們之外其實IAWIN本身雖然他是處理兒少為主但是如果一般的網路上的一些申訴通報他們他們一樣是跟這個Google或者Meta一樣有聯繫管道一樣可以協力來處理所以現在就是說這個我們NCC跟數化部都有一個單位可以受理\n都沒問題嗎就是如果要下就確定這個新聞是假新聞或者是有危害的新聞我們是有管道去跟NCC是這速發部跟NCC有個單位我們直接跟誰反應\n我們這邊是可以是個協力啦就是說透過iWIN這個窗口它雖然主要受惹哨但是非惹哨的議題的部分網路上的東西透過他們來受惹哨一樣可以透過他們去跟相關的那大型平台業者來反映他們本身會有一個自律規範跟社群守則他們會依據他們的處理我舉個簡單的例子啦就像詐騙就打165吧\n那我如果遇到這個東西是速發部負責還是NCC負責那我要找誰因為部長講可以反應但是速發部單位這麼大我們要找誰是不是有個固定的窗口提供給民眾那民眾要來使用遇到這些假訊息可以及時反應是不是就會比較清楚\n我們有一些那個我們請素材署跟委員報告我們有加入這個iWIN的組織所以我們這邊也可以來承接這個安置然後我們請iWIN來幫忙所以是跟蘇華部的蘇華部我們這邊有跟iWIN有窗口我知道你們有說民眾跟你們窗口要找誰我們這邊有那個進箱這片的第一道窗口就是165一般民都可以打\n所以假訊息也算詐騙假訊息也打165嗎165會傳給你們嗎\n我們這邊是沒有直接受理 但是我們有些同仁會受理但是比較多的還是過往都是I-WIN來受理比較為主對啦 所以你們研究一下看民眾如果找誰比較方便就直接你們把這個窗口訂出來嘛這樣子民眾要處理是不是就比較簡單沒有假訊息 就剛剛講說I-WIN是一個窗口 不過我們再看看OK 那媒體意見我想剛剛其昌\n委員也提到澳洲跟加拿大這個其實是有困難沒有錯啦所以我們要定這個法 到底法則要到什麼程度 或者是要共融到什麼程度那以及就是說現在歐盟使用的這個著作權 臨階模式或者是說我們的強制溢價模式 那現在我們書畫部有沒有什麼想法 這大概會用哪個模式\n就是剛剛就前面都有報告過就是說我們現在是沒有特定立場那持續還在研究跟關注現在國際發展所以我們也是希望儘快尤其在關稅這問題解決之後儘快瞭解這個世界各國採取的方式哪個方式有效我們就當然一定要儘快的處理所以現在只是說那個以目前來講我們沒有特定立場因為兩個模式都有一些缺失\n那當然這個剛剛講共農基金是目前在台灣已經在進行的模式那我們會在這個裡面再繼續鼓勵讓共農基金的模式能夠繼續發展跟成長不過立法這個東西我們希望盡快但是在目前這個時間點需要再觀察OK 時間到了我們簡單結論就是說你要用強制溢價的立法這個優缺點在哪裡\n那我們的駐州權連接模式這個歐盟採用的比較廣泛那速發部是不是有立場或想法那也希望說整理一下讓我知道一下那最後就是這個工農基金\n共同基金我是覺得目前我們是三億嘛對不對三年三億一年一億有機會再更多當然我們盡量去爭取那爭取到了以後這些基金事實上就是不管是著作權的他應該要有的收費也好或者是說民眾反映的這個\n假訊息處理我覺得這部分蘇發部跟NCC可以做一個規劃這個有錢可以用我們就把它用發揮它的效率嘛就杜絕減少這樣子一個假訊息的擴散跟蔓延那你們也可以盡快的跟Meta或者是相關的\n部門請他們盡快的去下架等等的這些速度要如何加快讓人民很快就能夠跟你們反應那很快就能夠處理我想這個是最實際有效的希望說這個部分你們也規劃一下好不好 好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.129 --> 00:25.858\n先謝謝林國成、趙偉好感謝好那我們請部長好黃部長部長好部長其實之前唐鳳當部長的時候那個時候有跟Google跟Meta他們對話過\n\n00:28.408 --> 00:32.222\n所以當時其實我也曾經要求過很多次就是說有沒有機會\n\n00:34.157 --> 00:58.536\n讓數化部創造這個平台那這個平台能夠發揮一些溝通的功能那的確就是Google也從2023年有三年出資三億建立台灣新聞數位共同基金那這個的確是數化部的作為有效果出來那我們眼看2023年到2025年\n\n01:02.096 --> 01:27.627\n那明年2026有可能有類似的機制嗎這個我們也跟委員一樣關心說我們跟Google詢問過Google說還有一年多的時間它希望能夠知道它的成效之後再跟總部這邊才有辦法去爭取更多的資源所以它還是要看這三年的執行結果OK那就接續剛才蔡警長委員提到的這個問題\n\n01:29.255 --> 01:52.688\n事實上我們不能束手無策那剛剛部長也有提到就是說你們可以跟Meta去反應這些問題那我們來看就是GoogleMeta如果有類似這樣子一個共同基金那也許用這個基金就可以創造另外一個就是解決這些問題的人出來\n\n01:56.093 --> 02:16.497\n所以我是這樣子建議啦因為現在的網路新聞真的是真真假假假假真真啦很多有的是虛假的訊息但是你會造成人民很大的困擾那現在是誰流量大說話大聲沒的沒吃的就靠他流量也亂講又不用負責任\n\n02:20.747 --> 02:46.480\n所以就是說我們希望說就是以NCC跟我們的那個數學部的角度如何去杜絕類似這樣子一個虛假的言論那這個虛假言論如果一旦出現之後那數學部跟NCC有什麼作為就類似剛才部長提到可以跟META反映之外你覺得還有什麼方式\n\n02:48.140 --> 03:12.431\n再就想說判斷真假當然這個是就是要由專業去判斷那判斷真假之後那個管道當然就是說我們跟Meta有一些平台管道可以直接跟他們溝通那當然剛剛主委有講到說那個可能有一些作用法一些法可以讓這個東西可以更有一個法制化這邊是不是請主委再說明一下\n\n03:13.437 --> 03:33.208\n跟委員補充如果是我們NCC所管的管理業者我們會要求他事實查證而且會有相當的法律效果就是說如果他違反的話這邊會有衛管法或管理法律相處理那至於說自媒體的網路那一塊除了說我們現在用這個要求他們自立\n\n03:34.148 --> 03:55.701\n時時刻刻提醒他們之外其實IAWIN本身雖然他是處理兒少為主但是如果一般的網路上的一些申訴通報他們他們一樣是跟這個Google或者Meta一樣有聯繫管道一樣可以協力來處理所以現在就是說這個我們NCC跟數化部都有一個單位可以受理\n\n03:57.628 --> 04:12.507\n都沒問題嗎就是如果要下就確定這個新聞是假新聞或者是有危害的新聞我們是有管道去跟NCC是這速發部跟NCC有個單位我們直接跟誰反應\n\n04:13.666 --> 04:35.951\n我們這邊是可以是個協力啦就是說透過iWIN這個窗口它雖然主要受惹哨但是非惹哨的議題的部分網路上的東西透過他們來受惹哨一樣可以透過他們去跟相關的那大型平台業者來反映他們本身會有一個自律規範跟社群守則他們會依據他們的處理我舉個簡單的例子啦就像詐騙就打165吧\n\n04:37.796 --> 04:58.733\n那我如果遇到這個東西是速發部負責還是NCC負責那我要找誰因為部長講可以反應但是速發部單位這麼大我們要找誰是不是有個固定的窗口提供給民眾那民眾要來使用遇到這些假訊息可以及時反應是不是就會比較清楚\n\n04:59.273 --> 05:28.545\n我們有一些那個我們請素材署跟委員報告我們有加入這個iWIN的組織所以我們這邊也可以來承接這個安置然後我們請iWIN來幫忙所以是跟蘇華部的蘇華部我們這邊有跟iWIN有窗口我知道你們有說民眾跟你們窗口要找誰我們這邊有那個進箱這片的第一道窗口就是165一般民都可以打\n\n05:29.921 --> 05:32.645\n所以假訊息也算詐騙假訊息也打165嗎165會傳給你們嗎\n\n05:38.392 --> 06:01.255\n我們這邊是沒有直接受理但是我們有些同仁會受理但是比較多的還是過往都是I-WIN來受理比較為主對啦所以你們研究一下看民眾如果找誰比較方便就直接你們把這個窗口訂出來嘛這樣子民眾要處理是不是就比較簡單沒有假訊息就剛剛講說I-WIN是一個窗口不過我們再看看OK那媒體意見我想剛剛其昌\n\n06:03.376 --> 06:31.420\n委員也提到澳洲跟加拿大這個其實是有困難沒有錯啦所以我們要定這個法到底法則要到什麼程度或者是要共融到什麼程度那以及就是說現在歐盟使用的這個著作權臨階模式或者是說我們的強制溢價模式那現在我們書畫部有沒有什麼想法這大概會用哪個模式\n\n06:32.281 --> 07:00.763\n就是剛剛就前面都有報告過就是說我們現在是沒有特定立場那持續還在研究跟關注現在國際發展所以我們也是希望儘快尤其在關稅這問題解決之後儘快瞭解這個世界各國採取的方式哪個方式有效我們就當然一定要儘快的處理所以現在只是說那個以目前來講我們沒有特定立場因為兩個模式都有一些缺失\n\n07:01.423 --> 07:26.093\n那當然這個剛剛講共農基金是目前在台灣已經在進行的模式那我們會在這個裡面再繼續鼓勵讓共農基金的模式能夠繼續發展跟成長不過立法這個東西我們希望盡快但是在目前這個時間點需要再觀察OK時間到了我們簡單結論就是說你要用強制溢價的立法這個優缺點在哪裡\n\n07:27.054 --> 07:42.645\n那我們的駐州權連接模式這個歐盟採用的比較廣泛那速發部是不是有立場或想法那也希望說整理一下讓我知道一下那最後就是這個工農基金\n\n07:43.405 --> 08:01.445\n共同基金我是覺得目前我們是三億嘛對不對三年三億一年一億有機會再更多當然我們盡量去爭取那爭取到了以後這些基金事實上就是不管是著作權的他應該要有的收費也好或者是說民眾反映的這個\n\n08:02.586 --> 08:19.257\n假訊息處理我覺得這部分蘇發部跟NCC可以做一個規劃這個有錢可以用我們就把它用發揮它的效率嘛就杜絕減少這樣子一個假訊息的擴散跟蔓延那你們也可以盡快的跟Meta或者是相關的\n\n08:19.857 --> 08:33.503\n部門請他們盡快的去下架等等的這些速度要如何加快讓人民很快就能夠跟你們反應那很快就能夠處理我想這個是最實際有效的希望說這個部分你們也規劃一下好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.129,"end":25.858,"text":"先謝謝林國成、趙偉好感謝好那我們請部長好黃部長部長好部長其實之前唐鳳當部長的時候那個時候有跟Google跟Meta他們對話過"},{"start":28.408,"end":32.222,"text":"所以當時其實我也曾經要求過很多次就是說有沒有機會"},{"start":34.157,"end":58.536,"text":"讓數化部創造這個平台那這個平台能夠發揮一些溝通的功能那的確就是Google也從2023年有三年出資三億建立台灣新聞數位共同基金那這個的確是數化部的作為有效果出來那我們眼看2023年到2025年"},{"start":62.096,"end":87.627,"text":"那明年2026有可能有類似的機制嗎這個我們也跟委員一樣關心說我們跟Google詢問過Google說還有一年多的時間它希望能夠知道它的成效之後再跟總部這邊才有辦法去爭取更多的資源所以它還是要看這三年的執行結果OK 那就接續剛才蔡警長委員提到的這個問題"},{"start":89.255,"end":112.688,"text":"事實上我們不能束手無策那剛剛部長也有提到就是說你們可以跟Meta去反應這些問題那我們來看就是Google Meta如果有類似這樣子一個共同基金那也許用這個基金就可以創造另外一個就是解決這些問題的人出來"},{"start":116.093,"end":136.497,"text":"所以我是這樣子建議啦 因為現在的網路新聞真的是真真假假假假真真啦很多有的是虛假的訊息 但是你會造成人民很大的困擾那現在是誰流量大 說話大聲 沒的沒吃的就靠他流量也亂講又不用負責任"},{"start":140.747,"end":166.48,"text":"所以就是說我們希望說就是以NCC跟我們的那個數學部的角度如何去杜絕類似這樣子一個虛假的言論那這個虛假言論如果一旦出現之後那數學部跟NCC有什麼作為就類似剛才部長提到可以跟META反映之外你覺得還有什麼方式"},{"start":168.14,"end":192.431,"text":"再就想說判斷真假當然這個是就是要由專業去判斷那判斷真假之後那個管道當然就是說我們跟Meta有一些平台管道可以直接跟他們溝通那當然剛剛主委有講到說那個可能有一些作用法一些法可以讓這個東西可以更有一個法制化這邊是不是請主委再說明一下"},{"start":193.437,"end":213.208,"text":"跟委員補充 如果是我們NCC所管的管理業者我們會要求他事實查證 而且會有相當的法律效果就是說如果他違反的話 這邊會有衛管法或管理法律相處理那至於說自媒體的網路那一塊 除了說我們現在用這個要求他們自立"},{"start":214.148,"end":235.701,"text":"時時刻刻提醒他們之外其實IAWIN本身雖然他是處理兒少為主但是如果一般的網路上的一些申訴通報他們他們一樣是跟這個Google或者Meta一樣有聯繫管道一樣可以協力來處理所以現在就是說這個我們NCC跟數化部都有一個單位可以受理"},{"start":237.628,"end":252.507,"text":"都沒問題嗎就是如果要下就確定這個新聞是假新聞或者是有危害的新聞我們是有管道去跟NCC是這速發部跟NCC有個單位我們直接跟誰反應"},{"start":253.666,"end":275.951,"text":"我們這邊是可以是個協力啦就是說透過iWIN這個窗口它雖然主要受惹哨但是非惹哨的議題的部分網路上的東西透過他們來受惹哨一樣可以透過他們去跟相關的那大型平台業者來反映他們本身會有一個自律規範跟社群守則他們會依據他們的處理我舉個簡單的例子啦就像詐騙就打165吧"},{"start":277.796,"end":298.733,"text":"那我如果遇到這個東西是速發部負責還是NCC負責那我要找誰因為部長講可以反應但是速發部單位這麼大我們要找誰是不是有個固定的窗口提供給民眾那民眾要來使用遇到這些假訊息可以及時反應是不是就會比較清楚"},{"start":299.273,"end":328.545,"text":"我們有一些那個我們請素材署跟委員報告我們有加入這個iWIN的組織所以我們這邊也可以來承接這個安置然後我們請iWIN來幫忙所以是跟蘇華部的蘇華部我們這邊有跟iWIN有窗口我知道你們有說民眾跟你們窗口要找誰我們這邊有那個進箱這片的第一道窗口就是165一般民都可以打"},{"start":329.921,"end":332.645,"text":"所以假訊息也算詐騙假訊息也打165嗎165會傳給你們嗎"},{"start":338.392,"end":361.255,"text":"我們這邊是沒有直接受理 但是我們有些同仁會受理但是比較多的還是過往都是I-WIN來受理比較為主對啦 所以你們研究一下看民眾如果找誰比較方便就直接你們把這個窗口訂出來嘛這樣子民眾要處理是不是就比較簡單沒有假訊息 就剛剛講說I-WIN是一個窗口 不過我們再看看OK 那媒體意見我想剛剛其昌"},{"start":363.376,"end":391.42,"text":"委員也提到澳洲跟加拿大這個其實是有困難沒有錯啦所以我們要定這個法 到底法則要到什麼程度 或者是要共融到什麼程度那以及就是說現在歐盟使用的這個著作權 臨階模式或者是說我們的強制溢價模式 那現在我們書畫部有沒有什麼想法 這大概會用哪個模式"},{"start":392.281,"end":420.763,"text":"就是剛剛就前面都有報告過就是說我們現在是沒有特定立場那持續還在研究跟關注現在國際發展所以我們也是希望儘快尤其在關稅這問題解決之後儘快瞭解這個世界各國採取的方式哪個方式有效我們就當然一定要儘快的處理所以現在只是說那個以目前來講我們沒有特定立場因為兩個模式都有一些缺失"},{"start":421.423,"end":446.093,"text":"那當然這個剛剛講共農基金是目前在台灣已經在進行的模式那我們會在這個裡面再繼續鼓勵讓共農基金的模式能夠繼續發展跟成長不過立法這個東西我們希望盡快但是在目前這個時間點需要再觀察OK 時間到了我們簡單結論就是說你要用強制溢價的立法這個優缺點在哪裡"},{"start":447.054,"end":462.645,"text":"那我們的駐州權連接模式這個歐盟採用的比較廣泛那速發部是不是有立場或想法那也希望說整理一下讓我知道一下那最後就是這個工農基金"},{"start":463.405,"end":481.445,"text":"共同基金我是覺得目前我們是三億嘛對不對三年三億一年一億有機會再更多當然我們盡量去爭取那爭取到了以後這些基金事實上就是不管是著作權的他應該要有的收費也好或者是說民眾反映的這個"},{"start":482.586,"end":499.257,"text":"假訊息處理我覺得這部分蘇發部跟NCC可以做一個規劃這個有錢可以用我們就把它用發揮它的效率嘛就杜絕減少這樣子一個假訊息的擴散跟蔓延那你們也可以盡快的跟Meta或者是相關的"},{"start":499.857,"end":513.503,"text":"部門請他們盡快的去下架等等的這些速度要如何加快讓人民很快就能夠跟你們反應那很快就能夠處理我想這個是最實際有效的希望說這個部分你們也規劃一下好不好 好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":494,"blocks":[["許委員智傑：（10時45分）先謝謝林國成召委，感謝，我們請部長。"],["主席：黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["許委員智傑：部長好。部長，其實之前唐鳳當部長的時候，那個時候有跟Google、Meta對話過嘛？所以當時其實我也曾經要求過很多次，就是有沒有機會讓數發部創造一個平臺，讓這個平臺能夠發揮一些溝通的功能，的確Google也從2023年3年出資3億建立台灣新聞數位共榮基金，這個的確是數發部的作為有效果出來，眼看2023過了3年到今年2025，明年2026有可能有類似的機制嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：現在有在談，請署長說明。"],["林署長俊秀：我們也跟委員一樣關心，我們有跟Google詢問過，Google說還有一年多的時間，他希望能夠知道它的成效之後，才有辦法跟總部這邊再去爭取更多的資源，所以他還是要看這三年的執行結果。"],["許委員智傑：OK，就接續剛才蔡其昌委員提到的問題，事實上我們不能束手無策，剛剛部長也有提到，你們可以跟Meta去反映這些問題，Google、Meta如果有類似這樣子的一個共榮基金，也許這個基金就可以創造另外一個解決這些問題的人出來，所以我是這樣子建議，因為現在網路新聞真的是真真假假、假假真真，有的是虛假的訊息，但是會造成人民很大的困擾，現在是誰流量大，說話就大聲，有些沒有根據的人亂講，就仗著他的流量大隨便講，又不用負責任，所以我們希望以NCC跟數發部的角度，要如何去杜絕類似這樣子的虛假言論，一旦這個虛假言論出現之後，數發部跟NCC有什麼作為，就類似剛才部長提到的，除了可以跟Meta反映之外，你覺得還有什麼方式？"],["黃部長彥男：就判斷真假的部分，這個要由專業去判斷，判斷出真假之後，那個管道，我們跟Meta有一些平臺管道可以直接跟他們溝通，當然剛剛主委也有講到，可能有一些作用法、一些法可以讓這個東西更法制化，這邊是不是請主委再說明一下？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：跟委員補充，如果是我們NCC所管的廣電業者，我們是要求他實質查證，而且會有相關的法律效果，就是說如果他違反的話，這邊會有衛廣法或廣電法來處理，至於自媒體網路那一塊，我們現在除了要求他們自律，時時刻刻提醒他們之外，雖然iWIN本身是以處理兒少為主，但如果是一般網路上的一些申訴、通報，他們跟Google或者Meta一樣有聯繫管道，一樣可以協力來處理。"],["許委員智傑：所以NCC跟數發部都有一個單位可以受理，都沒問題嘛？"],["黃部長彥男：對，如果確定這個新聞是假新聞或者是有危害的新聞，我們是有管道去跟……"],["許委員智傑：數發部跟NCC都有單位，我們直接跟誰反映？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們這邊是可以協力，透過iWIN這個窗口，它雖然主要是受理兒少，但是非兒少議題的部分，網路上的東西，如果透過他們來受理的話，一樣可以透過他們去跟相關大型平臺業者來反映，他們本身會有一個自律規範跟社群守則，他們會依據他們……"],["許委員智傑：我舉個簡單的例子，就像詐騙就打165，我如果遇到這個東西，是數發部負責還是NCC負責？我要找誰？因為部長講可以反映，但是數發部單位這麼大，我們要找誰？是不是能有一個固定的窗口提供給民眾？當民眾要來使用，遇到這些假訊息可以即時反映，是不是就會比較清楚？"],["黃部長彥男：對，我們有一些那個，我請數產署說明一下。"],["林署長俊秀：跟委員報告，我們有加入iWIN這個組織，所以我們這邊也可以來承接這個案子，然後我們請iWIN來幫忙。"],["許委員智傑：所以是跟數發部的……"],["林署長俊秀：我們這邊跟iWIN有窗口。"],["許委員智傑：對啦，我知道你們有窗口，民眾去你們窗口反映時要找誰？"],["林署長俊秀：我們這邊有信箱。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：詐騙的第一道窗口就是165，這個一般民眾都可以打。"],["許委員智傑：所以假訊息也算詐騙，假訊息也打165嗎？165會傳給你們嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們這邊是沒有直接受理，但是我們有些同仁會受理，但是過往比較多的還是由iWIN來受理為主。"],["許委員智傑：對啦，所以你們研究一下，看民眾找誰會比較方便，你們就直接把這個窗口訂出來嘛，這樣子民眾要處理時是不是就比較簡單？"],["黃部長彥男：碰到假訊息時，我剛才講說iWIN是一個窗口，不過我們再看看有沒有其他的處理方法。"],["許委員智傑：OK，媒體議價部分，我想剛剛其昌委員也提到澳洲跟加拿大的例子，這個其實是有困難，沒有錯啦，所以我們要制定這個法，到底罰責要到什麼程度，或者是要共榮到什麼程度，以及現在歐盟使用的著作權鄰接模式，或者是我們的強制議價模式，現在數發部有沒有什麼想法，大概會用哪個模式？"],["黃部長彥男：剛剛前面都有報告過，就是說，我們現在是沒有特定立場，還在持續研究跟關注現在國際上的發展，所以我們也是希望儘快，尤其在關稅這個問題解決之後，儘快了解世界各國採取的方式，哪個方式有效，我們當然一定要儘快的處理。現在只是說，以目前來講，我們沒有特定立場，因為兩個模式都有一些缺失，當然剛剛講共榮基金是目前在臺灣已經在進行的模式，我們會在這裡面再繼續鼓勵，讓共榮基金的模式能夠繼續發展跟成長，不過立法這個東西我們希望儘快，但是在目前這個時間點需要再觀察。"],["許委員智傑：OK，我的時間到了，我們簡單結論啦，就是說你要用強制議價的立法，這個優缺點在哪裡？至於著作權鄰接模式，歐盟採用的比較廣泛，數發部是不是有立場或想法？也希望你們去做個整理，讓我知道一下。"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["許委員智傑：最後就是這個共榮基金，目前我們是3億嘛，對不對？3年3億，1年1億，如果有機會再爭取更多，當然我們儘量去爭取，爭取到了以後，這些基金事實上不管是著作權它應該要有的收費也好，或者是說，民眾反映的假訊息處理，我覺得這部分數發部跟NCC可以做一個規劃，這個有錢可以用，我們就去使用，發揮它的效力嘛，就杜絕、減少這樣子的假訊息擴散跟蔓延，你們也可以儘快的跟Meta，或者是相關的部門，請他們儘快的去下架等等的，這些速度要如何加快，讓人民很快就能夠跟你們反映，然後很快就能夠處理，我想這個是最實際有效的，希望這個部分你們也去規劃一下，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["許委員智傑：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝許智傑召委，現在休息10分鐘。","休息（10時53分）","繼續開會（11時3分）"],["主席：好，各位請就座，我們繼續開會。","現在請郭昱晴委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":148,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-23,22-1","speakers":["林國成","王鴻薇","張啓楷","洪孟楷","林宜瑾","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","葛如鈞","范雲","林俊憲","蔡其昌","許智傑","郭昱晴","徐富癸","李昆澤","何欣純","陳素月","邱若華","廖先翔","魯明哲","陳培瑜","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","羅廷瑋","吳沛憶","葉元之","游顥","林楚茵","蔡易餘","張雅琳","柯志恩","萬美玲","黃健豪","劉書彬","翁曉玲"],"page_start":61,"meetingDate":["2025-05-01"],"gazette_id":"1144501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員林楚茵等17人擬具「新聞媒體與數位平台議價法草案」案；二、審查委員羅廷瑋等\n16人擬具「新聞媒體與數位平臺強制議價法草案」案；三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「新聞媒\n體與數位平臺強制議價法草案」案；四、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「新聞媒體與數位科技平台公\n平發展法草案」案；五、審查委員林宜瑾等21 人擬具「數位新聞發展與民主韌性法草案」案；\n六、審查委員范雲等21人擬具「數位新聞發展與民主韌性法草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1144501_00002"}}}