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412.179, \"end\": 412.199, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,002 --> 00:00:02,107\n謝主席有請我們黃部長好黃部長\n\n2\n00:00:09,791 --> 00:00:29,223\n部長我過去也曾經在媒體服務過好幾年所以現場的媒體朋友的辛苦我都感同身受所以我想藉由今天這個勞動節我們特別標題寫了新聞不能做白宮媒體溢價制度不能等那所以部長我想剛剛談了很多那我們這個新聞的\n\n3\n00:00:33,086 --> 00:00:40,800\n一家制度不是單一的法規問題要牽扯到這個國際平台的反應跟國際政經的情勢那部長怎麼樣看待這樣的一個狀況\n\n4\n00:00:43,659 --> 00:01:12,922\n包括就是說剛剛在報告都談過就是說基本上我想新聞有價是大家共生而且是全世界的問題那所以我覺得就是說我們希望找到一個model對台灣有利而且是對台灣所有的媒體不管大或小那所以在這裡面情況我們希望能夠進速能夠產生在不管是在政府單位之間或者是跟民間民眾之間能產生一個共識然後用這個共識去推動我們的立法這個是我們就要積極進行那現在也在\n\n5\n00:01:13,762 --> 00:01:41,479\n進行中就是當然部長我想就是剛剛有提到我們目前國際上有三種做法第一個就是強制溢價的一個模式比如像澳洲的一個立法那第二個基金模式比如說科的一個公共基金來做一個回饋那第三個就是一個駐作臨階權的一個模式那我特別要強調因為基金模式涉及到一個科稅的問題那在國際上也處於一個高度敏感的一個狀態\n\n6\n00:01:42,591 --> 00:02:11,053\n那過去美國也因為對於歐洲國家進行一個數位稅的一個反對甚至祭出一個貿易制裁的一個報復後來也是在OECD平台上也達到一個折衝的一個方案那部長是不是認為在這樣的一個新聞議題的方式上面到底哪一個模式我們必須要從一個法律依據還有產業的運作甚至國際貿易的風險的面向應該怎麼來去評估才是對我們比較有利的一個方向\n\n7\n00:02:11,693 --> 00:02:30,743\n對沒錯這個就是我們目前正在評估的因為尤其在這個時間點因為加入一些政治的考量跟國際關稅的考量問題是有一些就是說變成是複雜化所以在這個時候在這三個模式到底哪個模式對台灣最有效這個都還要再觀察\n\n8\n00:02:31,563 --> 00:02:50,062\n對阿部長但是觀察總是也要有一個階段性的處理啦不能一直只是在關稅問題這個settledown以後我們當然就是再觀察再看看再根據這個目前澳洲的這個澳洲是一個很好的一個平台就是說因為他用強制議價法那這個強制法在\n\n9\n00:02:52,898 --> 00:03:17,234\n在這個東西在目前看起來是不成功但是我們當然也許這個這個等到關稅這問題解決之後這個問題會不會解決我們也有待觀察不過目前的確這三個三個模式都有一些都有一些缺點這個就是對台灣哪一個最有效其實也是沒有共識所以因為沒有共識所以我們在目前沒有辦法提出個版本是能夠滿足\n\n10\n00:03:18,755 --> 00:03:36,360\n就是滿足大家就臺灣特別的需要所以這個我們希望能夠盡速有個定案但是還需要再跟大眾溝通好部長謝謝辛苦了我們繼續努力那部長請回我們接著請熊熊傳播委員會我們的陳代理主委謝謝好那個陳主委\n\n11\n00:03:43,816 --> 00:04:12,318\n主委我想新聞產業是我們民主社會不可或缺的一環那尤其這個數位平臺舉起之後對我們這個新聞內容的再利用其實對我們傳統的媒體也造成一個長期跟結構性的一個衝擊那過去我們通訊傳播委員會有在111年有辦一個我國廣電新聞媒體受數位平臺影響的一個產業調查請教主委這個研究是不是有公開\n\n12\n00:04:17,626 --> 00:04:32,000\n我的研究案應該是有相對的公開然後之前我們在我們今天報告其實也有提到大概重點大概是幾個就是說其實現在有些媒體不管是廣電的本身延伸的網路媒體\n\n13\n00:04:34,302 --> 00:04:58,139\n自媒體他們有些事已經有跟兩大平台已經在合作那他們比較在抱怨的是第一個他跟兩大平台的合作的分認這個機制是不透明的不對等的那他可能今天拿了100萬可能這個月拿100萬下個月可能不知道什麼原因突然就變成50萬他們就抱怨說這個分認機制是不透明的\n\n14\n00:04:58,579 --> 00:05:17,317\n那這是在沒有這個議價法之前的現狀是這樣子的那他們希望說未來能夠除了以流量當作分潤的依據之外能不能提出在議價法裡頭能不能導入一個非以流量為依歸的方式來做分潤他們的訴求是這樣子\n\n15\n00:05:18,171 --> 00:05:31,471\n主委那如果既然這樣的一個你們針對這樣一個新聞溢價的部分有一個制度性的一個建議那是不是應該要掌握更完整的一個產業太陽是不是進行全面性的一個調查有沒有這個必要性\n\n16\n00:05:32,795 --> 00:05:48,454\n是的那所以在那個原來數位部三輪八場裡頭我們就之前行政院有分工協調我們負責產業調查之後的報告我們有在那種場合持續有跟政府也好跟兩大平台有持續在討論\n\n17\n00:05:49,964 --> 00:06:11,521\n所以我想我們會會也支持一個新聞有價應該合理分潤的一個原則我想這個原則下面應該也要怎麼樣讓我們的針對媒體業者反映的這些諸多的一個問題包含透明度包含這個分潤制度包含這個平台經營的一個風險壓力的部分應該做更謹慎的一個處理\n\n18\n00:06:14,343 --> 00:06:42,021\n那我想這個新聞我們的新聞媒體的先進們大家都很辛苦都在第一線報導我們的所有的這個新聞那他們也是生產公共知識的一個勞工但是過去長期處於一個低薪不穩定過勞的一個狀態那我想我們也應該要捍衛他們的一個權益那為了我想包含我們的數位部包含我們的通傳會還有相關包含勞動部我想這幾個單位我們應該共同努力盡快把這樣的一個\n\n19\n00:06:42,882 --> 00:06:52,199\n新聞的一個不能做白宮的一個方式這個制度應該趕快廢掉讓我們的媒體一家制度趕快上路以大家共同來努力謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1002\t2107\t謝主席 有請我們黃部長好 黃部長\n9791\t29223\t部長我過去也曾經在媒體服務過好幾年所以現場的媒體朋友的辛苦我都感同身受所以我想藉由今天這個勞動節我們特別標題寫了新聞不能做白宮媒體溢價制度不能等那所以部長我想剛剛談了很多那我們這個新聞的\n33086\t40800\t一家制度不是單一的法規問題要牽扯到這個國際平台的反應跟國際政經的情勢那部長怎麼樣看待這樣的一個狀況\n43659\t72922\t包括就是說剛剛在報告都談過就是說基本上我想新聞有價是大家共生而且是全世界的問題那所以我覺得就是說我們希望找到一個model對台灣有利而且是對台灣所有的媒體不管大或小那所以在這裡面情況我們希望能夠進速能夠產生在不管是在政府單位之間或者是跟民間民眾之間能產生一個共識然後用這個共識去推動我們的立法這個是我們就要積極進行那現在也在\n73762\t101479\t進行中就是當然部長我想就是剛剛有提到我們目前國際上有三種做法第一個就是強制溢價的一個模式比如像澳洲的一個立法那第二個基金模式比如說科的一個公共基金來做一個回饋那第三個就是一個駐作臨階權的一個模式那我特別要強調因為基金模式涉及到一個科稅的問題那在國際上也處於一個高度敏感的一個狀態\n102591\t131053\t那過去美國也因為對於歐洲國家進行一個數位稅的一個反對甚至祭出一個貿易制裁的一個報復後來也是在OECD平台上也達到一個折衝的一個方案那部長是不是認為在這樣的一個新聞議題的方式上面到底哪一個模式我們必須要從一個法律依據還有產業的運作甚至國際貿易的風險的面向應該怎麼來去評估才是對我們比較有利的一個方向\n131693\t150743\t對沒錯這個就是我們目前正在評估的因為尤其在這個時間點因為加入一些政治的考量跟國際關稅的考量問題是有一些就是說變成是複雜化所以在這個時候在這三個模式到底哪個模式對台灣最有效這個都還要再觀察\n151563\t170062\t對阿部長但是觀察總是也要有一個階段性的處理啦不能一直只是在關稅問題這個settle down以後我們當然就是再觀察再看看再根據這個目前澳洲的這個澳洲是一個很好的一個平台就是說因為他用強制議價法那這個強制法在\n172898\t197234\t在這個東西在目前看起來是不成功但是我們當然也許這個這個等到關稅這問題解決之後這個問題會不會解決我們也有待觀察不過目前的確這三個三個模式都有一些都有一些缺點這個就是對台灣哪一個最有效其實也是沒有共識所以因為沒有共識所以我們在目前沒有辦法提出個版本是能夠滿足\n198755\t216360\t就是滿足大家就臺灣特別的需要所以這個我們希望能夠盡速有個定案但是還需要再跟大眾溝通好 部長謝謝辛苦了我們繼續努力那部長請回我們接著請熊熊傳播委員會我們的陳代理主委謝謝好 那個陳主委\n223816\t252318\t主委我想新聞產業是我們民主社會不可或缺的一環那尤其這個數位平臺舉起之後對我們這個新聞內容的再利用其實對我們傳統的媒體也造成一個長期跟結構性的一個衝擊那過去我們通訊傳播委員會有在111年有辦一個我國廣電新聞媒體受數位平臺影響的一個產業調查請教主委這個研究是不是有公開\n257626\t272000\t我的研究案應該是有相對的公開然後之前我們在我們今天報告其實也有提到大概重點大概是幾個就是說其實現在有些媒體不管是廣電的本身延伸的網路媒體\n274302\t298139\t自媒體他們有些事已經有跟兩大平台已經在合作那他們比較在抱怨的是第一個他跟兩大平台的合作的分認這個機制是不透明的不對等的那他可能今天拿了100萬可能這個月拿100萬下個月可能不知道什麼原因突然就變成50萬他們就抱怨說這個分認機制是不透明的\n298579\t317317\t那這是在沒有這個議價法之前的現狀是這樣子的那他們希望說未來能夠除了以流量當作分潤的依據之外能不能提出在議價法裡頭能不能導入一個非以流量為依歸的方式來做分潤他們的訴求是這樣子\n318171\t331471\t主委那如果既然這樣的一個你們針對這樣一個新聞溢價的部分有一個制度性的一個建議那是不是應該要掌握更完整的一個產業太陽是不是進行全面性的一個調查有沒有這個必要性\n332795\t348454\t是的 那所以在那個原來數位部三輪八場裡頭我們就之前行政院有分工協調我們負責產業調查之後的報告我們有在那種場合持續有跟政府也好跟兩大平台有持續在討論\n349964\t371521\t所以我想我們會會也支持一個新聞有價應該合理分潤的一個原則我想這個原則下面應該也要怎麼樣讓我們的針對媒體業者反映的這些諸多的一個問題包含透明度包含這個分潤制度包含這個平台經營的一個風險壓力的部分應該做更謹慎的一個處理\n374343\t402021\t那我想這個新聞我們的新聞媒體的先進們大家都很辛苦都在第一線報導我們的所有的這個新聞那他們也是生產公共知識的一個勞工但是過去長期處於一個低薪不穩定過勞的一個狀態那我想我們也應該要捍衛他們的一個權益那為了我想包含我們的數位部包含我們的通傳會還有相關包含勞動部我想這幾個單位我們應該共同努力盡快把這樣的一個\n402882\t412199\t新聞的一個不能做白宮的一個方式這個制度應該趕快廢掉讓我們的媒體一家制度趕快上路以大家共同來努力謝謝\n","txt":"謝主席 有請我們黃部長好 黃部長\n部長我過去也曾經在媒體服務過好幾年所以現場的媒體朋友的辛苦我都感同身受所以我想藉由今天這個勞動節我們特別標題寫了新聞不能做白宮媒體溢價制度不能等那所以部長我想剛剛談了很多那我們這個新聞的\n一家制度不是單一的法規問題要牽扯到這個國際平台的反應跟國際政經的情勢那部長怎麼樣看待這樣的一個狀況\n包括就是說剛剛在報告都談過就是說基本上我想新聞有價是大家共生而且是全世界的問題那所以我覺得就是說我們希望找到一個model對台灣有利而且是對台灣所有的媒體不管大或小那所以在這裡面情況我們希望能夠進速能夠產生在不管是在政府單位之間或者是跟民間民眾之間能產生一個共識然後用這個共識去推動我們的立法這個是我們就要積極進行那現在也在\n進行中就是當然部長我想就是剛剛有提到我們目前國際上有三種做法第一個就是強制溢價的一個模式比如像澳洲的一個立法那第二個基金模式比如說科的一個公共基金來做一個回饋那第三個就是一個駐作臨階權的一個模式那我特別要強調因為基金模式涉及到一個科稅的問題那在國際上也處於一個高度敏感的一個狀態\n那過去美國也因為對於歐洲國家進行一個數位稅的一個反對甚至祭出一個貿易制裁的一個報復後來也是在OECD平台上也達到一個折衝的一個方案那部長是不是認為在這樣的一個新聞議題的方式上面到底哪一個模式我們必須要從一個法律依據還有產業的運作甚至國際貿易的風險的面向應該怎麼來去評估才是對我們比較有利的一個方向\n對沒錯這個就是我們目前正在評估的因為尤其在這個時間點因為加入一些政治的考量跟國際關稅的考量問題是有一些就是說變成是複雜化所以在這個時候在這三個模式到底哪個模式對台灣最有效這個都還要再觀察\n對阿部長但是觀察總是也要有一個階段性的處理啦不能一直只是在關稅問題這個settle down以後我們當然就是再觀察再看看再根據這個目前澳洲的這個澳洲是一個很好的一個平台就是說因為他用強制議價法那這個強制法在\n在這個東西在目前看起來是不成功但是我們當然也許這個這個等到關稅這問題解決之後這個問題會不會解決我們也有待觀察不過目前的確這三個三個模式都有一些都有一些缺點這個就是對台灣哪一個最有效其實也是沒有共識所以因為沒有共識所以我們在目前沒有辦法提出個版本是能夠滿足\n就是滿足大家就臺灣特別的需要所以這個我們希望能夠盡速有個定案但是還需要再跟大眾溝通好 部長謝謝辛苦了我們繼續努力那部長請回我們接著請熊熊傳播委員會我們的陳代理主委謝謝好 那個陳主委\n主委我想新聞產業是我們民主社會不可或缺的一環那尤其這個數位平臺舉起之後對我們這個新聞內容的再利用其實對我們傳統的媒體也造成一個長期跟結構性的一個衝擊那過去我們通訊傳播委員會有在111年有辦一個我國廣電新聞媒體受數位平臺影響的一個產業調查請教主委這個研究是不是有公開\n我的研究案應該是有相對的公開然後之前我們在我們今天報告其實也有提到大概重點大概是幾個就是說其實現在有些媒體不管是廣電的本身延伸的網路媒體\n自媒體他們有些事已經有跟兩大平台已經在合作那他們比較在抱怨的是第一個他跟兩大平台的合作的分認這個機制是不透明的不對等的那他可能今天拿了100萬可能這個月拿100萬下個月可能不知道什麼原因突然就變成50萬他們就抱怨說這個分認機制是不透明的\n那這是在沒有這個議價法之前的現狀是這樣子的那他們希望說未來能夠除了以流量當作分潤的依據之外能不能提出在議價法裡頭能不能導入一個非以流量為依歸的方式來做分潤他們的訴求是這樣子\n主委那如果既然這樣的一個你們針對這樣一個新聞溢價的部分有一個制度性的一個建議那是不是應該要掌握更完整的一個產業太陽是不是進行全面性的一個調查有沒有這個必要性\n是的 那所以在那個原來數位部三輪八場裡頭我們就之前行政院有分工協調我們負責產業調查之後的報告我們有在那種場合持續有跟政府也好跟兩大平台有持續在討論\n所以我想我們會會也支持一個新聞有價應該合理分潤的一個原則我想這個原則下面應該也要怎麼樣讓我們的針對媒體業者反映的這些諸多的一個問題包含透明度包含這個分潤制度包含這個平台經營的一個風險壓力的部分應該做更謹慎的一個處理\n那我想這個新聞我們的新聞媒體的先進們大家都很辛苦都在第一線報導我們的所有的這個新聞那他們也是生產公共知識的一個勞工但是過去長期處於一個低薪不穩定過勞的一個狀態那我想我們也應該要捍衛他們的一個權益那為了我想包含我們的數位部包含我們的通傳會還有相關包含勞動部我想這幾個單位我們應該共同努力盡快把這樣的一個\n新聞的一個不能做白宮的一個方式這個制度應該趕快廢掉讓我們的媒體一家制度趕快上路以大家共同來努力謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.002 --> 00:02.107\n謝主席有請我們黃部長好黃部長\n\n00:09.791 --> 00:29.223\n部長我過去也曾經在媒體服務過好幾年所以現場的媒體朋友的辛苦我都感同身受所以我想藉由今天這個勞動節我們特別標題寫了新聞不能做白宮媒體溢價制度不能等那所以部長我想剛剛談了很多那我們這個新聞的\n\n00:33.086 --> 00:40.800\n一家制度不是單一的法規問題要牽扯到這個國際平台的反應跟國際政經的情勢那部長怎麼樣看待這樣的一個狀況\n\n00:43.659 --> 01:12.922\n包括就是說剛剛在報告都談過就是說基本上我想新聞有價是大家共生而且是全世界的問題那所以我覺得就是說我們希望找到一個model對台灣有利而且是對台灣所有的媒體不管大或小那所以在這裡面情況我們希望能夠進速能夠產生在不管是在政府單位之間或者是跟民間民眾之間能產生一個共識然後用這個共識去推動我們的立法這個是我們就要積極進行那現在也在\n\n01:13.762 --> 01:41.479\n進行中就是當然部長我想就是剛剛有提到我們目前國際上有三種做法第一個就是強制溢價的一個模式比如像澳洲的一個立法那第二個基金模式比如說科的一個公共基金來做一個回饋那第三個就是一個駐作臨階權的一個模式那我特別要強調因為基金模式涉及到一個科稅的問題那在國際上也處於一個高度敏感的一個狀態\n\n01:42.591 --> 02:11.053\n那過去美國也因為對於歐洲國家進行一個數位稅的一個反對甚至祭出一個貿易制裁的一個報復後來也是在OECD平台上也達到一個折衝的一個方案那部長是不是認為在這樣的一個新聞議題的方式上面到底哪一個模式我們必須要從一個法律依據還有產業的運作甚至國際貿易的風險的面向應該怎麼來去評估才是對我們比較有利的一個方向\n\n02:11.693 --> 02:30.743\n對沒錯這個就是我們目前正在評估的因為尤其在這個時間點因為加入一些政治的考量跟國際關稅的考量問題是有一些就是說變成是複雜化所以在這個時候在這三個模式到底哪個模式對台灣最有效這個都還要再觀察\n\n02:31.563 --> 02:50.062\n對阿部長但是觀察總是也要有一個階段性的處理啦不能一直只是在關稅問題這個settledown以後我們當然就是再觀察再看看再根據這個目前澳洲的這個澳洲是一個很好的一個平台就是說因為他用強制議價法那這個強制法在\n\n02:52.898 --> 03:17.234\n在這個東西在目前看起來是不成功但是我們當然也許這個這個等到關稅這問題解決之後這個問題會不會解決我們也有待觀察不過目前的確這三個三個模式都有一些都有一些缺點這個就是對台灣哪一個最有效其實也是沒有共識所以因為沒有共識所以我們在目前沒有辦法提出個版本是能夠滿足\n\n03:18.755 --> 03:36.360\n就是滿足大家就臺灣特別的需要所以這個我們希望能夠盡速有個定案但是還需要再跟大眾溝通好部長謝謝辛苦了我們繼續努力那部長請回我們接著請熊熊傳播委員會我們的陳代理主委謝謝好那個陳主委\n\n03:43.816 --> 04:12.318\n主委我想新聞產業是我們民主社會不可或缺的一環那尤其這個數位平臺舉起之後對我們這個新聞內容的再利用其實對我們傳統的媒體也造成一個長期跟結構性的一個衝擊那過去我們通訊傳播委員會有在111年有辦一個我國廣電新聞媒體受數位平臺影響的一個產業調查請教主委這個研究是不是有公開\n\n04:17.626 --> 04:32.000\n我的研究案應該是有相對的公開然後之前我們在我們今天報告其實也有提到大概重點大概是幾個就是說其實現在有些媒體不管是廣電的本身延伸的網路媒體\n\n04:34.302 --> 04:58.139\n自媒體他們有些事已經有跟兩大平台已經在合作那他們比較在抱怨的是第一個他跟兩大平台的合作的分認這個機制是不透明的不對等的那他可能今天拿了100萬可能這個月拿100萬下個月可能不知道什麼原因突然就變成50萬他們就抱怨說這個分認機制是不透明的\n\n04:58.579 --> 05:17.317\n那這是在沒有這個議價法之前的現狀是這樣子的那他們希望說未來能夠除了以流量當作分潤的依據之外能不能提出在議價法裡頭能不能導入一個非以流量為依歸的方式來做分潤他們的訴求是這樣子\n\n05:18.171 --> 05:31.471\n主委那如果既然這樣的一個你們針對這樣一個新聞溢價的部分有一個制度性的一個建議那是不是應該要掌握更完整的一個產業太陽是不是進行全面性的一個調查有沒有這個必要性\n\n05:32.795 --> 05:48.454\n是的那所以在那個原來數位部三輪八場裡頭我們就之前行政院有分工協調我們負責產業調查之後的報告我們有在那種場合持續有跟政府也好跟兩大平台有持續在討論\n\n05:49.964 --> 06:11.521\n所以我想我們會會也支持一個新聞有價應該合理分潤的一個原則我想這個原則下面應該也要怎麼樣讓我們的針對媒體業者反映的這些諸多的一個問題包含透明度包含這個分潤制度包含這個平台經營的一個風險壓力的部分應該做更謹慎的一個處理\n\n06:14.343 --> 06:42.021\n那我想這個新聞我們的新聞媒體的先進們大家都很辛苦都在第一線報導我們的所有的這個新聞那他們也是生產公共知識的一個勞工但是過去長期處於一個低薪不穩定過勞的一個狀態那我想我們也應該要捍衛他們的一個權益那為了我想包含我們的數位部包含我們的通傳會還有相關包含勞動部我想這幾個單位我們應該共同努力盡快把這樣的一個\n\n06:42.882 --> 06:52.199\n新聞的一個不能做白宮的一個方式這個制度應該趕快廢掉讓我們的媒體一家制度趕快上路以大家共同來努力謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.002,"end":2.107,"text":"謝主席 有請我們黃部長好 黃部長"},{"start":9.791,"end":29.223,"text":"部長我過去也曾經在媒體服務過好幾年所以現場的媒體朋友的辛苦我都感同身受所以我想藉由今天這個勞動節我們特別標題寫了新聞不能做白宮媒體溢價制度不能等那所以部長我想剛剛談了很多那我們這個新聞的"},{"start":33.086,"end":40.8,"text":"一家制度不是單一的法規問題要牽扯到這個國際平台的反應跟國際政經的情勢那部長怎麼樣看待這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":43.659,"end":72.922,"text":"包括就是說剛剛在報告都談過就是說基本上我想新聞有價是大家共生而且是全世界的問題那所以我覺得就是說我們希望找到一個model對台灣有利而且是對台灣所有的媒體不管大或小那所以在這裡面情況我們希望能夠進速能夠產生在不管是在政府單位之間或者是跟民間民眾之間能產生一個共識然後用這個共識去推動我們的立法這個是我們就要積極進行那現在也在"},{"start":73.762,"end":101.479,"text":"進行中就是當然部長我想就是剛剛有提到我們目前國際上有三種做法第一個就是強制溢價的一個模式比如像澳洲的一個立法那第二個基金模式比如說科的一個公共基金來做一個回饋那第三個就是一個駐作臨階權的一個模式那我特別要強調因為基金模式涉及到一個科稅的問題那在國際上也處於一個高度敏感的一個狀態"},{"start":102.591,"end":131.053,"text":"那過去美國也因為對於歐洲國家進行一個數位稅的一個反對甚至祭出一個貿易制裁的一個報復後來也是在OECD平台上也達到一個折衝的一個方案那部長是不是認為在這樣的一個新聞議題的方式上面到底哪一個模式我們必須要從一個法律依據還有產業的運作甚至國際貿易的風險的面向應該怎麼來去評估才是對我們比較有利的一個方向"},{"start":131.693,"end":150.743,"text":"對沒錯這個就是我們目前正在評估的因為尤其在這個時間點因為加入一些政治的考量跟國際關稅的考量問題是有一些就是說變成是複雜化所以在這個時候在這三個模式到底哪個模式對台灣最有效這個都還要再觀察"},{"start":151.563,"end":170.062,"text":"對阿部長但是觀察總是也要有一個階段性的處理啦不能一直只是在關稅問題這個settle down以後我們當然就是再觀察再看看再根據這個目前澳洲的這個澳洲是一個很好的一個平台就是說因為他用強制議價法那這個強制法在"},{"start":172.898,"end":197.234,"text":"在這個東西在目前看起來是不成功但是我們當然也許這個這個等到關稅這問題解決之後這個問題會不會解決我們也有待觀察不過目前的確這三個三個模式都有一些都有一些缺點這個就是對台灣哪一個最有效其實也是沒有共識所以因為沒有共識所以我們在目前沒有辦法提出個版本是能夠滿足"},{"start":198.755,"end":216.36,"text":"就是滿足大家就臺灣特別的需要所以這個我們希望能夠盡速有個定案但是還需要再跟大眾溝通好 部長謝謝辛苦了我們繼續努力那部長請回我們接著請熊熊傳播委員會我們的陳代理主委謝謝好 那個陳主委"},{"start":223.816,"end":252.318,"text":"主委我想新聞產業是我們民主社會不可或缺的一環那尤其這個數位平臺舉起之後對我們這個新聞內容的再利用其實對我們傳統的媒體也造成一個長期跟結構性的一個衝擊那過去我們通訊傳播委員會有在111年有辦一個我國廣電新聞媒體受數位平臺影響的一個產業調查請教主委這個研究是不是有公開"},{"start":257.626,"end":272,"text":"我的研究案應該是有相對的公開然後之前我們在我們今天報告其實也有提到大概重點大概是幾個就是說其實現在有些媒體不管是廣電的本身延伸的網路媒體"},{"start":274.302,"end":298.139,"text":"自媒體他們有些事已經有跟兩大平台已經在合作那他們比較在抱怨的是第一個他跟兩大平台的合作的分認這個機制是不透明的不對等的那他可能今天拿了100萬可能這個月拿100萬下個月可能不知道什麼原因突然就變成50萬他們就抱怨說這個分認機制是不透明的"},{"start":298.579,"end":317.317,"text":"那這是在沒有這個議價法之前的現狀是這樣子的那他們希望說未來能夠除了以流量當作分潤的依據之外能不能提出在議價法裡頭能不能導入一個非以流量為依歸的方式來做分潤他們的訴求是這樣子"},{"start":318.171,"end":331.471,"text":"主委那如果既然這樣的一個你們針對這樣一個新聞溢價的部分有一個制度性的一個建議那是不是應該要掌握更完整的一個產業太陽是不是進行全面性的一個調查有沒有這個必要性"},{"start":332.795,"end":348.454,"text":"是的 那所以在那個原來數位部三輪八場裡頭我們就之前行政院有分工協調我們負責產業調查之後的報告我們有在那種場合持續有跟政府也好跟兩大平台有持續在討論"},{"start":349.964,"end":371.521,"text":"所以我想我們會會也支持一個新聞有價應該合理分潤的一個原則我想這個原則下面應該也要怎麼樣讓我們的針對媒體業者反映的這些諸多的一個問題包含透明度包含這個分潤制度包含這個平台經營的一個風險壓力的部分應該做更謹慎的一個處理"},{"start":374.343,"end":402.021,"text":"那我想這個新聞我們的新聞媒體的先進們大家都很辛苦都在第一線報導我們的所有的這個新聞那他們也是生產公共知識的一個勞工但是過去長期處於一個低薪不穩定過勞的一個狀態那我想我們也應該要捍衛他們的一個權益那為了我想包含我們的數位部包含我們的通傳會還有相關包含勞動部我想這幾個單位我們應該共同努力盡快把這樣的一個"},{"start":402.882,"end":412.199,"text":"新聞的一個不能做白宮的一個方式這個制度應該趕快廢掉讓我們的媒體一家制度趕快上路以大家共同來努力謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":554,"blocks":[["徐委員富癸：（11時13分）謝謝主席，有請黃部長。"],["主席：好，黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：徐委員好。"],["徐委員富癸：部長好。部長，我過去曾經在媒體服務過好幾年，所以現場媒體朋友的辛苦我都感同身受，藉由今天是勞動節，我的標題特別寫了「新聞不能做白工，媒體議價制度不能等」。部長剛剛談了很多，我們新聞的議價制度不是單一的法規問題，還牽扯到各個國際平臺的反應跟國際政經情勢，部長怎麼樣看待這樣的狀況？"],["黃部長彥男：剛剛在報告都談過，基本上新聞有價是大家的共識，而且是全世界的問題，所以我們希望找到一個model對臺灣有利，而且是對臺灣所有媒體有利，不管大或小，在這樣的情況下，我們希望能夠儘速在政府單位之間，或者是跟民眾之間能產生一個共識，然後用這個共識去推動我們的立法，這個是我們需要積極進行的，現在也在進行中。"],["徐委員富癸：部長剛剛有提到，目前國際上有三種作法，第一個是強制議價的模式，比如像澳洲的立法；第二個是基金模式，比如課徵公共基金來做回饋；第三個就是著作鄰接權的模式。我要特別強調，因為基金模式涉及到課稅的問題，在國際上也處於高度敏感的狀態，過去美國也因為歐洲國家徵收數位稅而反對，甚至祭出貿易制裁的報復，後來也是在OECD平臺上達到一個折衝的方案。部長是不是認為在這樣的新聞議題方式上，到底哪一個模式可行？我們必須要從法律依據還有產業運作，甚至國際貿易風險的面向，應該怎麼評估才是對我們比較有利的方向？"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員，沒錯，這就是我們目前正在評估的，尤其在這個時間點，因為加入了一些政治考量跟國際關稅的考量，讓問題變成複雜化，所以這個時候要在這三個模式中思考到底哪個模式對臺灣最有效，這都還要再觀察。"],["徐委員富癸：對啦，部長，但是觀察總要有一個階段性的處理，不能一直只是在……"],["黃部長彥男：我們希望儘速，關稅問題settle down以後，我們當然就是再觀察看看，根據目前澳洲的這個……因為澳洲是一個很好的平臺，他們用強制議價法，強制議價法這個東西目前看起來不成功，但是也許等到我們關稅問題解決之後，這個問題會不會也解決仍有待觀察，不過目前的確這三個模式都有一些缺點，其實哪一個對臺灣最有效，目前也沒有共識，也因為沒有共識，所以我們還沒有辦法提出一個版本能夠滿足臺灣特別的需要，我們希望能夠儘速有一個定案，但還是需要再跟大眾溝通。"],["徐委員富癸：好，部長謝謝，辛苦了，我們繼續努力。部長請回，接著請通訊傳播委員會的陳代理主委，謝謝。"],["主席：好，請陳主委。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：委員好。"],["徐委員富癸：主委，我想新聞產業是我們民主社會不可或缺的一環，尤其數位平臺崛起之後對新聞內容的再利用，其實也對我們傳統媒體造成了長期跟結構性的衝擊。過去通訊傳播委員會在111年辦了一個「我國廣電新聞媒體受數位平臺影響產業調查」，請教主委，這個研究是不是有公開？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們的委託研究案應該是有相對應公開，在我們今天的報告其實也有提到，重點大概是幾個，其實現在有些媒體，不管是廣電本身衍生的網路媒體或者自媒體，他們有些已經有跟兩大平臺合作，他們比較抱怨的是，第一個，他們跟兩大平臺的合作分潤機制是不透明的、不對等的，他們可能這個月拿100萬，下個月可能不知道什麼原因突然就變成50萬，他們抱怨這個分潤機制是不透明的，這是在沒有議價法之前的現狀，他們希望未來能夠除了以流量當作分潤的依據之外，能不能在議價法裡頭導入一個非以流量為依規的方式來做分潤，他們的訴求是這樣子的。"],["徐委員富癸：主委，既然你們針對新聞議價的部分有一個制度性的建議，那是不是應該要掌握更完整的產業態樣？是不是進行全面性的調查？有沒有這個必要性？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是的，所以原來在數位部的3輪8場會議裡頭，就之前行政院的分工協調，我們負責產業調查報告，我們有在該場合跟政府及兩大平臺持續的討論。"],["徐委員富癸：對啦，我想我們也會支持新聞有價，應該合理分潤的原則嘛！"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是。"],["徐委員富癸：在這個原則之下，應該也要針對媒體業者反映的這些諸多問題，包含透明度、分潤制度，包含平臺經營的風險壓力做更謹慎的處理。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是。"],["徐委員富癸：我們的新聞媒體先進們都很辛苦，都在第一線報導所有的新聞，他們也是生產公共知識的勞工，但是過去長期處於低薪不穩定、過勞的狀態，我想我們也應該要捍衛他們的權益，未來包含數位部、通傳會還有勞動部，我想這幾個單位應該共同努力，儘快把新聞做白工的方式及制度趕快廢掉，讓我們的媒體議價制度趕快上路，需要大家共同來努力，謝謝。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：會的，我們會持續努力。"],["主席：謝謝徐富癸委員。","現在請李昆澤委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":148,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-23,22-1","speakers":["林國成","王鴻薇","張啓楷","洪孟楷","林宜瑾","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","葛如鈞","范雲","林俊憲","蔡其昌","許智傑","郭昱晴","徐富癸","李昆澤","何欣純","陳素月","邱若華","廖先翔","魯明哲","陳培瑜","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","羅廷瑋","吳沛憶","葉元之","游顥","林楚茵","蔡易餘","張雅琳","柯志恩","萬美玲","黃健豪","劉書彬","翁曉玲"],"page_start":61,"meetingDate":["2025-05-01"],"gazette_id":"1144501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員林楚茵等17人擬具「新聞媒體與數位平台議價法草案」案；二、審查委員羅廷瑋等\n16人擬具「新聞媒體與數位平臺強制議價法草案」案；三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「新聞媒\n體與數位平臺強制議價法草案」案；四、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「新聞媒體與數位科技平台公\n平發展法草案」案；五、審查委員林宜瑾等21 人擬具「數位新聞發展與民主韌性法草案」案；\n六、審查委員范雲等21人擬具「數位新聞發展與民主韌性法草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1144501_00002"}}}