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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,169 --> 00:00:09,314\n好謝謝主席有請我們世衛部王部長好路委員好\n\n2\n00:00:10,765 --> 00:00:36,002\n好部長今天主要齁這個要開始我們有一些法案嘛針對你們所謂媒體溢價相關的一些立法但我們今天早上就看到你們昨天有表達意見嘛就擔心這個可能會造成美國關稅的一個報復嘛齁我看到報紙這樣寫是你的意思嘛齁是我們研究的出來的結果對研究出來的結果好那現在現在有個問題喔\n\n3\n00:00:38,575 --> 00:01:05,601\n這個當然就是川普總統啊讓美國再次偉大各個總統要讓他國家再偉大我是覺得一點錯都沒有好他提出了這個關稅關稅的大戰已經開始了那所有人都知道那是貨品貿易具體的透過空運海運運過去的互相世界的一個貿易具象的貨品貿易那請問一下GoogleMeta這是貨品貿易還是服務貿易\n\n4\n00:01:07,722 --> 00:01:23,661\n報告委員事實上有個實際的例子就是說美國貿易代表署跟護國家安全顧問他提出一個十項不公平的數位貿易慣例數位貿易也是列為他們一個主要關稅的一個考量所以並沒有不是只有實體的貨品這個數位\n\n5\n00:01:26,625 --> 00:01:38,321\n這個部長能不能有一點我們中華民國我們台灣的立場好不好因為我們聽到Mega美國偉大我們已經背得好熟啦那台灣呢我跟你講齁現在簡單來說\n\n6\n00:01:41,175 --> 00:01:59,198\n川普總統的邏輯很清楚嘛因為主要的一個關稅貨品貿易因為他都是逆差你們這麼多國家賣這麼多東西給我我輸出的巨項的一個貨品這麼少所以對美國不公平所以他要去做一個用關稅才來調整是他一個基本的邏輯\n\n7\n00:02:00,515 --> 00:02:18,802\n那服務貿易抱歉倒過來對台灣來講這種世界貿易的服務貿易的一個形態台灣對美國我們是逆差啊逆差啊就川普這種邏輯就是說抱歉對台灣不公平服務貿易啊\n\n8\n00:02:19,722 --> 00:02:41,383\n沒有我是希望你們在討論這個事情要有一些立場而且你們在談判的時候總是有一些對我有利的吧還是一去就是趴在地下嗎這本來就FullMoney你們賺這麼多錢從不管是GoogleMetaNetflix你只要講出來的賺錢不用打關稅就來來去去所以這個部分我覺得是應該變成政府\n\n9\n00:02:41,983 --> 00:02:59,029\n一個討價還價的一個籌碼所以我也希望說這個數位部在這方面能夠在談判的時候就你們的立場所有這種服務貿易也能夠來幫忙這個談判能夠促成那我再請教一下你今天有特別提出來說\n\n10\n00:03:01,883 --> 00:03:25,275\n這個溢價相關的一些法案你有點擔心那當然因為這個關稅大戰是大概上個月才開始那請問一下你去年在幹嘛那個報委等一下我講完110年啦你還沒上任啦你這個整個行政院當時就成立國內產業大型數位平台共融發展協調小組\n\n11\n00:03:26,724 --> 00:03:51,735\n然後到111年112年總共開了三輪八次會議八次會議平台業者產業不斷去討論那到底遇到什麼問題我不知道可是到了112年的9月最後一場會議開完之後到113年5月20號跟著新政府上任之後你一次會也沒有開嘛\n\n12\n00:03:52,355 --> 00:04:07,690\n我跟你講去年還沒發生貿易戰嘛你今天寫給我的我理解喔現在發生這個事情那請問一下你去年在幹什麼還是你壓根子講一下數位部這個黃部長你的心態是說我就是不想弄啊是不是到底怎麼回事你去年在幹嘛\n\n13\n00:04:08,371 --> 00:04:32,966\n報告委員我一上任就有很多就是對這個問題就很多的這個不管是工協會媒體還有媒體還有包括這個所謂的學者跟我討論這個議題我們一直很關注那我們那時候也在跟這個平台商也有一家不斷的協商那再說因為這一年多的變化蠻大的所以會讓我們原來我們原來我剛上任的時候他們有跟我講說經過這麼多次討論結果\n\n14\n00:04:35,487 --> 00:04:47,399\n那個覺得是租住臨界圈是一個可走的方向但是呢經過這一年也發現租臨界圈也是有它很多的缺點所以變成就是說現在這個這個問題那當然這裡面很多討論剛剛講這個跟我們有很多這種關於這個這個數位這個媒體這個部長我最主要是說\n\n15\n00:04:58,409 --> 00:05:23,949\n112年的9月6號是巴士會議的最後一次你上任之後不管是前朝或這一朝都沒有開因為你是主責單位你要叫NCC相關單位文化部大家一起來討論你既然沒有做那我們非常懷疑在關稅大戰之前你到底認為這是一個麻煩事你也講出來就直接說可是我們看到幾個單位的報告都說\n\n16\n00:05:24,850 --> 00:05:53,930\n這個媒體有價你們都全力支持希望能夠促成那第二個我想請教一下你特別有談了嘛現在世界各國有在進行的譬如說2021最早澳洲完成了那加拿大2023那歐盟他是用另外的著作權的一個臨階權的這種概念去做的有點不一樣但是希望讓新聞是有價的這種的努力跟社群平台去協調那當然我就不一講了\n\n17\n00:05:54,650 --> 00:06:21,821\n那從澳洲也好那Google他有達成那個協議然後提供了資金然後加拿大Google也是提供一年一億加幣一年23億台幣持續五年115億那再來歐盟呢歐盟就是太多國家了談不清楚那Meta的立場現在也清楚啦他就不玩啦\n\n18\n00:06:22,990 --> 00:06:24,732\n談好了也不玩了反正翻臉了就這樣那這種情況我真的是有一個建議\n\n19\n00:06:31,874 --> 00:06:52,420\n我知道你們有很多的一個顧慮啊可是我們也希望是不是讓台灣也有點在這上面有個立場我們是服務貿易被人家賺錢的國家在那邊不吭不哈什麼都不敢說也沒有道理吧太過分了不要說嘛談不成的不要說那我一樣以加拿大4000萬人口是我們人口的1.7倍\n\n20\n00:06:53,940 --> 00:07:10,628\n他的新聞媒體對1.7倍他五年的計畫Google五年的計畫115億台幣好不好那現在Google也謝謝他是台灣第一個在談的過程2023年他講三年一年1億台幣\n\n21\n00:07:12,639 --> 00:07:34,047\n然後就這樣嗎我是覺得因為你現在還沒開過會我覺得不能這樣我覺得這兩個加起來人口差1.7倍但是他提供的讓我們媒體能夠有這樣的一個資金不管是版權或者AI提升各方面他提供的資金是3億比115億我們將近40倍\n\n22\n00:07:37,228 --> 00:07:45,161\n我倒是覺得這個法案有沒有立什麼時候立起來但是這個部分我是建議是不是部長能夠接續能夠為了我們這個國家的這個整體的新聞發展利益來繼續協調可以嗎\n\n23\n00:07:52,852 --> 00:08:07,441\n不過剛剛委員講說我們都沒有開過會這是不對的因為事實上這個東西我們內部開了好幾次會議然後我們也跟平台業者因為重點是平台業者要不要配合所以我們也甚至飛到美國跟像Meta有開過會所以這個問題的因為是這個問題本身我們很關注\n\n24\n00:08:11,263 --> 00:08:27,148\n我知道你們開很多會啦什麼詐騙啊什麼都有我是講你那個整個大的行政院下面的機構我們調的文件這個機構就沒有跟你自己開會那兩回事啊那今天當然是真的是鼓勵你啦我們要去談判最後啊\n\n25\n00:08:29,298 --> 00:08:51,111\n我們真的也發覺尤其在歐盟很多國家在談的過程中蠻難界定的包括什麼叫新聞新聞的界定那版權到底是誰譬如說是他家的攝影鏡頭然後媒體拿到了那錢到底誰分論嘛是那一家的那個個人對不對還是我那個法人還是那到底要分給誰呢\n\n26\n00:08:52,492 --> 00:09:09,683\n對不對還是錢要跟誰要所以我在想喔這個問題我是覺得你們勢必要去認真去研議啦委員已經提了這麼多版本而且三個黨都有提出版本就等於說各黨派的一個共識都希望能夠去推讓新聞有價那現在顯來顯來這左邊是四種\n\n27\n00:09:15,246 --> 00:09:29,751\n現在常看到的媒體的來源你看到一個好消息第一個有媒體自行去收集的喔自行採訪這個真的算是新聞媒體最賤鬼我就自己採訪自己發掘那百分之百是這個新聞媒體的這個沒有問題\n\n28\n00:09:31,451 --> 00:09:50,485\n第二個是媒體引述其他人的一個新聞不管廠商活動這個的部分這兩個是媒體的第三個現在有超多的新聞我覺得至少三分之一就誰家的行車紀錄器誰家監視系統看到小偷跑過去車被偷然後就別人的\n\n29\n00:09:51,866 --> 00:10:19,543\nrawmaterial新聞點是在那個影片是一個屬於個人或者一個社區的他拿過來民共提供但是媒體報導他到底錢到底要分誰當然最後一個像爆料公司啊社群平台他做一個爆料被營用的所以新聞的產生的一個架構蠻多的來源也不一定那這個新聞如果有分論到底要給誰這是一個未來要思考的問題好不好因為時間已經超過很多\n\n30\n00:10:20,524 --> 00:10:31,382\n麻煩我是覺得整個大的平台真的要開個會了好不好因為委員提了這麼多版本你整個行政院的平台還是要運作起來我們會很重視各委員的版本會再跟委員討論好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n169\t9314\t好 謝謝主席 有請我們世衛部王部長好 路委員好\n10765\t36002\t好 部長今天主要齁 這個要開始我們有一些法案嘛針對你們所謂媒體溢價相關的一些立法但我們今天早上就看到你們昨天有表達意見嘛就擔心這個可能會造成美國關稅的一個報復嘛齁我看到報紙這樣寫是你的意思嘛齁是我們研究的出來的結果 對研究出來的結果 好那現在 現在有個問題喔\n38575\t65601\t這個當然就是川普總統啊讓美國再次偉大各個總統要讓他國家再偉大我是覺得一點錯都沒有好他提出了這個關稅關稅的大戰已經開始了那所有人都知道那是貨品貿易具體的透過空運海運運過去的互相世界的一個貿易具象的貨品貿易那請問一下Google Meta這是貨品貿易還是服務貿易\n67722\t83661\t報告委員事實上有個實際的例子就是說美國貿易代表署跟護國家安全顧問他提出一個十項不公平的數位貿易慣例數位貿易也是列為他們一個主要關稅的一個考量所以並沒有不是只有實體的貨品這個數位\n86625\t98321\t這個部長能不能有一點我們中華民國我們台灣的立場好不好因為我們聽到Mega美國偉大我們已經背得好熟啦那台灣呢我跟你講齁現在簡單來說\n101175\t119198\t川普總統的邏輯很清楚嘛因為主要的一個關稅貨品貿易因為他都是逆差你們這麼多國家賣這麼多東西給我我輸出的巨項的一個貨品這麼少所以對美國不公平所以他要去做一個用關稅才來調整是他一個基本的邏輯\n120515\t138802\t那服務貿易抱歉倒過來對台灣來講這種世界貿易的服務貿易的一個形態台灣對美國我們是逆差啊逆差啊就川普這種邏輯就是說抱歉對台灣不公平服務貿易啊\n139722\t161383\t沒有 我是希望你們在討論這個事情要有一些立場而且你們在談判的時候總是有一些對我有利的吧還是一去就是趴在地下嗎這本來就Full Money你們賺這麼多錢從不管是Google Meta Netflix你只要講出來的賺錢不用打關稅就來來去去所以這個部分我覺得是應該變成政府\n161983\t179029\t一個討價還價的一個籌碼所以我也希望說這個數位部在這方面能夠在談判的時候就你們的立場所有這種服務貿易也能夠來幫忙這個談判能夠促成那我再請教一下你今天有特別提出來說\n181883\t205275\t這個溢價相關的一些法案 你有點擔心那當然因為這個關稅大戰是大概上個月才開始那請問一下你去年在幹嘛那個 報委等一下我講完 110年啦 你還沒上任啦你這個整個行政院當時就成立國內產業大型數位平台共融發展協調小組\n206724\t231735\t然後到111年 112年總共開了三輪八次會議八次會議平台業者產業不斷去討論那到底遇到什麼問題我不知道可是到了112年的9月最後一場會議開完之後到113年5月20號跟著新政府上任之後你一次會也沒有開嘛\n232355\t247690\t我跟你講 去年還沒發生貿易戰嘛你今天寫給我的 我理解 喔 現在發生這個事情那請問一下 你去年在幹什麼還是你壓根子 講一下數位部這個 黃部長你的心態是說我就是不想弄啊 是不是 到底怎麼回事你去年在幹嘛\n248371\t272966\t報告委員我一上任就有很多就是對這個問題就很多的這個不管是工協會媒體還有媒體還有包括這個所謂的學者跟我討論這個議題我們一直很關注那我們那時候也在跟這個平台商也有一家不斷的協商那再說因為這一年多的變化蠻大的所以會讓我們原來我們原來我剛上任的時候他們有跟我講說經過這麼多次討論結果\n275487\t287399\t那個覺得是租住臨界圈是一個可走的方向但是呢經過這一年也發現租臨界圈也是有它很多的缺點所以變成就是說現在這個這個問題那當然這裡面很多討論剛剛講這個跟我們有很多這種關於這個這個數位這個媒體這個部長我最主要是說\n298409\t323949\t112年的9月6號是巴士會議的最後一次你上任之後不管是前朝或這一朝都沒有開因為你是主責單位你要叫NCC相關單位文化部大家一起來討論你既然沒有做那我們非常懷疑在關稅大戰之前你到底認為這是一個麻煩事你也講出來就直接說可是我們看到幾個單位的報告都說\n324850\t353930\t這個媒體有價你們都全力支持希望能夠促成那第二個我想請教一下你特別有談了嘛現在世界各國有在進行的譬如說2021最早澳洲完成了那加拿大2023那歐盟他是用另外的著作權的一個臨階權的這種概念去做的有點不一樣但是希望讓新聞是有價的這種的努力跟社群平台去協調那當然我就不一講了\n354650\t381821\t那從澳洲也好那Google他有達成那個協議然後提供了資金然後加拿大Google也是提供一年一億加幣一年23億台幣持續五年115億那再來歐盟呢歐盟就是太多國家了談不清楚那Meta的立場現在也清楚啦他就不玩啦\n382990\t384732\t談好了也不玩了反正翻臉了就這樣那這種情況我真的是有一個建議\n391874\t412420\t我知道你們有很多的一個顧慮啊可是我們也希望是不是讓台灣也有點在這上面有個立場我們是服務貿易被人家賺錢的國家在那邊不吭不哈什麼都不敢說也沒有道理吧太過分了不要說嘛談不成的不要說那我一樣以加拿大4000萬人口是我們人口的1.7倍\n413940\t430628\t他的新聞媒體對1.7倍他五年的計畫 Google五年的計畫115億台幣好不好那現在Google也謝謝他是台灣第一個在談的過程2023年他講三年一年1億台幣\n432639\t454047\t然後就這樣嗎我是覺得因為你現在還沒開過會我覺得不能這樣我覺得這兩個加起來人口差1.7倍但是他提供的讓我們媒體能夠有這樣的一個資金不管是版權或者AI提升各方面他提供的資金是3億比115億我們將近40倍\n457228\t465161\t我倒是覺得這個法案有沒有立什麼時候立起來但是這個部分我是建議是不是部長能夠接續能夠為了我們這個國家的這個整體的新聞發展利益來繼續協調可以嗎\n472852\t487441\t不過剛剛委員講說我們都沒有開過會這是不對的因為事實上這個東西我們內部開了好幾次會議然後我們也跟平台業者因為重點是平台業者要不要配合所以我們也甚至飛到美國跟像Meta有開過會所以這個問題的因為是這個問題本身我們很關注\n491263\t507148\t我知道你們開很多會啦什麼詐騙啊什麼都有我是講你那個整個大的行政院下面的機構我們調的文件這個機構就沒有跟你自己開會那兩回事啊那今天當然是真的是鼓勵你啦我們要去談判最後啊\n509298\t531111\t我們真的也發覺 尤其在歐盟很多國家在談的過程中 蠻難界定的 包括什麼叫新聞新聞的界定 那版權到底是誰 譬如說是他家的攝影鏡頭 然後媒體拿到了 那錢到底誰分論嘛是那一家的那個個人 對不對 還是我那個法人 還是 那到底要分給誰呢\n532492\t549683\t對不對還是錢要跟誰要所以我在想喔這個問題我是覺得你們勢必要去認真去研議啦委員已經提了這麼多版本而且三個黨都有提出版本就等於說各黨派的一個共識都希望能夠去推讓新聞有價那現在顯來顯來這左邊是四種\n555246\t569751\t現在常看到的媒體的來源你看到一個好消息第一個有媒體自行去收集的喔自行採訪這個真的算是新聞媒體最賤鬼我就自己採訪自己發掘那百分之百是這個新聞媒體的這個沒有問題\n571451\t590485\t第二個是媒體引述其他人的一個新聞不管廠商活動這個的部分這兩個是媒體的第三個現在有超多的新聞我覺得至少三分之一就誰家的行車紀錄器誰家監視系統看到小偷跑過去車被偷然後就別人的\n591866\t619543\traw material新聞點是在那個影片是一個屬於個人或者一個社區的他拿過來民共提供但是媒體報導他到底錢到底要分誰當然最後一個像爆料公司啊社群平台他做一個爆料被營用的所以新聞的產生的一個架構蠻多的來源也不一定那這個新聞如果有分論到底要給誰這是一個未來要思考的問題好不好因為時間已經超過很多\n620524\t631382\t麻煩我是覺得整個大的平台真的要開個會了好不好因為委員提了這麼多版本你整個行政院的平台還是要運作起來我們會很重視各委員的版本會再跟委員討論好謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 有請我們世衛部王部長好 路委員好\n好 部長今天主要齁 這個要開始我們有一些法案嘛針對你們所謂媒體溢價相關的一些立法但我們今天早上就看到你們昨天有表達意見嘛就擔心這個可能會造成美國關稅的一個報復嘛齁我看到報紙這樣寫是你的意思嘛齁是我們研究的出來的結果 對研究出來的結果 好那現在 現在有個問題喔\n這個當然就是川普總統啊讓美國再次偉大各個總統要讓他國家再偉大我是覺得一點錯都沒有好他提出了這個關稅關稅的大戰已經開始了那所有人都知道那是貨品貿易具體的透過空運海運運過去的互相世界的一個貿易具象的貨品貿易那請問一下Google Meta這是貨品貿易還是服務貿易\n報告委員事實上有個實際的例子就是說美國貿易代表署跟護國家安全顧問他提出一個十項不公平的數位貿易慣例數位貿易也是列為他們一個主要關稅的一個考量所以並沒有不是只有實體的貨品這個數位\n這個部長能不能有一點我們中華民國我們台灣的立場好不好因為我們聽到Mega美國偉大我們已經背得好熟啦那台灣呢我跟你講齁現在簡單來說\n川普總統的邏輯很清楚嘛因為主要的一個關稅貨品貿易因為他都是逆差你們這麼多國家賣這麼多東西給我我輸出的巨項的一個貨品這麼少所以對美國不公平所以他要去做一個用關稅才來調整是他一個基本的邏輯\n那服務貿易抱歉倒過來對台灣來講這種世界貿易的服務貿易的一個形態台灣對美國我們是逆差啊逆差啊就川普這種邏輯就是說抱歉對台灣不公平服務貿易啊\n沒有 我是希望你們在討論這個事情要有一些立場而且你們在談判的時候總是有一些對我有利的吧還是一去就是趴在地下嗎這本來就Full Money你們賺這麼多錢從不管是Google Meta Netflix你只要講出來的賺錢不用打關稅就來來去去所以這個部分我覺得是應該變成政府\n一個討價還價的一個籌碼所以我也希望說這個數位部在這方面能夠在談判的時候就你們的立場所有這種服務貿易也能夠來幫忙這個談判能夠促成那我再請教一下你今天有特別提出來說\n這個溢價相關的一些法案 你有點擔心那當然因為這個關稅大戰是大概上個月才開始那請問一下你去年在幹嘛那個 報委等一下我講完 110年啦 你還沒上任啦你這個整個行政院當時就成立國內產業大型數位平台共融發展協調小組\n然後到111年 112年總共開了三輪八次會議八次會議平台業者產業不斷去討論那到底遇到什麼問題我不知道可是到了112年的9月最後一場會議開完之後到113年5月20號跟著新政府上任之後你一次會也沒有開嘛\n我跟你講 去年還沒發生貿易戰嘛你今天寫給我的 我理解 喔 現在發生這個事情那請問一下 你去年在幹什麼還是你壓根子 講一下數位部這個 黃部長你的心態是說我就是不想弄啊 是不是 到底怎麼回事你去年在幹嘛\n報告委員我一上任就有很多就是對這個問題就很多的這個不管是工協會媒體還有媒體還有包括這個所謂的學者跟我討論這個議題我們一直很關注那我們那時候也在跟這個平台商也有一家不斷的協商那再說因為這一年多的變化蠻大的所以會讓我們原來我們原來我剛上任的時候他們有跟我講說經過這麼多次討論結果\n那個覺得是租住臨界圈是一個可走的方向但是呢經過這一年也發現租臨界圈也是有它很多的缺點所以變成就是說現在這個這個問題那當然這裡面很多討論剛剛講這個跟我們有很多這種關於這個這個數位這個媒體這個部長我最主要是說\n112年的9月6號是巴士會議的最後一次你上任之後不管是前朝或這一朝都沒有開因為你是主責單位你要叫NCC相關單位文化部大家一起來討論你既然沒有做那我們非常懷疑在關稅大戰之前你到底認為這是一個麻煩事你也講出來就直接說可是我們看到幾個單位的報告都說\n這個媒體有價你們都全力支持希望能夠促成那第二個我想請教一下你特別有談了嘛現在世界各國有在進行的譬如說2021最早澳洲完成了那加拿大2023那歐盟他是用另外的著作權的一個臨階權的這種概念去做的有點不一樣但是希望讓新聞是有價的這種的努力跟社群平台去協調那當然我就不一講了\n那從澳洲也好那Google他有達成那個協議然後提供了資金然後加拿大Google也是提供一年一億加幣一年23億台幣持續五年115億那再來歐盟呢歐盟就是太多國家了談不清楚那Meta的立場現在也清楚啦他就不玩啦\n談好了也不玩了反正翻臉了就這樣那這種情況我真的是有一個建議\n我知道你們有很多的一個顧慮啊可是我們也希望是不是讓台灣也有點在這上面有個立場我們是服務貿易被人家賺錢的國家在那邊不吭不哈什麼都不敢說也沒有道理吧太過分了不要說嘛談不成的不要說那我一樣以加拿大4000萬人口是我們人口的1.7倍\n他的新聞媒體對1.7倍他五年的計畫 Google五年的計畫115億台幣好不好那現在Google也謝謝他是台灣第一個在談的過程2023年他講三年一年1億台幣\n然後就這樣嗎我是覺得因為你現在還沒開過會我覺得不能這樣我覺得這兩個加起來人口差1.7倍但是他提供的讓我們媒體能夠有這樣的一個資金不管是版權或者AI提升各方面他提供的資金是3億比115億我們將近40倍\n我倒是覺得這個法案有沒有立什麼時候立起來但是這個部分我是建議是不是部長能夠接續能夠為了我們這個國家的這個整體的新聞發展利益來繼續協調可以嗎\n不過剛剛委員講說我們都沒有開過會這是不對的因為事實上這個東西我們內部開了好幾次會議然後我們也跟平台業者因為重點是平台業者要不要配合所以我們也甚至飛到美國跟像Meta有開過會所以這個問題的因為是這個問題本身我們很關注\n我知道你們開很多會啦什麼詐騙啊什麼都有我是講你那個整個大的行政院下面的機構我們調的文件這個機構就沒有跟你自己開會那兩回事啊那今天當然是真的是鼓勵你啦我們要去談判最後啊\n我們真的也發覺 尤其在歐盟很多國家在談的過程中 蠻難界定的 包括什麼叫新聞新聞的界定 那版權到底是誰 譬如說是他家的攝影鏡頭 然後媒體拿到了 那錢到底誰分論嘛是那一家的那個個人 對不對 還是我那個法人 還是 那到底要分給誰呢\n對不對還是錢要跟誰要所以我在想喔這個問題我是覺得你們勢必要去認真去研議啦委員已經提了這麼多版本而且三個黨都有提出版本就等於說各黨派的一個共識都希望能夠去推讓新聞有價那現在顯來顯來這左邊是四種\n現在常看到的媒體的來源你看到一個好消息第一個有媒體自行去收集的喔自行採訪這個真的算是新聞媒體最賤鬼我就自己採訪自己發掘那百分之百是這個新聞媒體的這個沒有問題\n第二個是媒體引述其他人的一個新聞不管廠商活動這個的部分這兩個是媒體的第三個現在有超多的新聞我覺得至少三分之一就誰家的行車紀錄器誰家監視系統看到小偷跑過去車被偷然後就別人的\nraw material新聞點是在那個影片是一個屬於個人或者一個社區的他拿過來民共提供但是媒體報導他到底錢到底要分誰當然最後一個像爆料公司啊社群平台他做一個爆料被營用的所以新聞的產生的一個架構蠻多的來源也不一定那這個新聞如果有分論到底要給誰這是一個未來要思考的問題好不好因為時間已經超過很多\n麻煩我是覺得整個大的平台真的要開個會了好不好因為委員提了這麼多版本你整個行政院的平台還是要運作起來我們會很重視各委員的版本會再跟委員討論好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.169 --> 00:09.314\n好謝謝主席有請我們世衛部王部長好路委員好\n\n00:10.765 --> 00:36.002\n好部長今天主要齁這個要開始我們有一些法案嘛針對你們所謂媒體溢價相關的一些立法但我們今天早上就看到你們昨天有表達意見嘛就擔心這個可能會造成美國關稅的一個報復嘛齁我看到報紙這樣寫是你的意思嘛齁是我們研究的出來的結果對研究出來的結果好那現在現在有個問題喔\n\n00:38.575 --> 01:05.601\n這個當然就是川普總統啊讓美國再次偉大各個總統要讓他國家再偉大我是覺得一點錯都沒有好他提出了這個關稅關稅的大戰已經開始了那所有人都知道那是貨品貿易具體的透過空運海運運過去的互相世界的一個貿易具象的貨品貿易那請問一下GoogleMeta這是貨品貿易還是服務貿易\n\n01:07.722 --> 01:23.661\n報告委員事實上有個實際的例子就是說美國貿易代表署跟護國家安全顧問他提出一個十項不公平的數位貿易慣例數位貿易也是列為他們一個主要關稅的一個考量所以並沒有不是只有實體的貨品這個數位\n\n01:26.625 --> 01:38.321\n這個部長能不能有一點我們中華民國我們台灣的立場好不好因為我們聽到Mega美國偉大我們已經背得好熟啦那台灣呢我跟你講齁現在簡單來說\n\n01:41.175 --> 01:59.198\n川普總統的邏輯很清楚嘛因為主要的一個關稅貨品貿易因為他都是逆差你們這麼多國家賣這麼多東西給我我輸出的巨項的一個貨品這麼少所以對美國不公平所以他要去做一個用關稅才來調整是他一個基本的邏輯\n\n02:00.515 --> 02:18.802\n那服務貿易抱歉倒過來對台灣來講這種世界貿易的服務貿易的一個形態台灣對美國我們是逆差啊逆差啊就川普這種邏輯就是說抱歉對台灣不公平服務貿易啊\n\n02:19.722 --> 02:41.383\n沒有我是希望你們在討論這個事情要有一些立場而且你們在談判的時候總是有一些對我有利的吧還是一去就是趴在地下嗎這本來就FullMoney你們賺這麼多錢從不管是GoogleMetaNetflix你只要講出來的賺錢不用打關稅就來來去去所以這個部分我覺得是應該變成政府\n\n02:41.983 --> 02:59.029\n一個討價還價的一個籌碼所以我也希望說這個數位部在這方面能夠在談判的時候就你們的立場所有這種服務貿易也能夠來幫忙這個談判能夠促成那我再請教一下你今天有特別提出來說\n\n03:01.883 --> 03:25.275\n這個溢價相關的一些法案你有點擔心那當然因為這個關稅大戰是大概上個月才開始那請問一下你去年在幹嘛那個報委等一下我講完110年啦你還沒上任啦你這個整個行政院當時就成立國內產業大型數位平台共融發展協調小組\n\n03:26.724 --> 03:51.735\n然後到111年112年總共開了三輪八次會議八次會議平台業者產業不斷去討論那到底遇到什麼問題我不知道可是到了112年的9月最後一場會議開完之後到113年5月20號跟著新政府上任之後你一次會也沒有開嘛\n\n03:52.355 --> 04:07.690\n我跟你講去年還沒發生貿易戰嘛你今天寫給我的我理解喔現在發生這個事情那請問一下你去年在幹什麼還是你壓根子講一下數位部這個黃部長你的心態是說我就是不想弄啊是不是到底怎麼回事你去年在幹嘛\n\n04:08.371 --> 04:32.966\n報告委員我一上任就有很多就是對這個問題就很多的這個不管是工協會媒體還有媒體還有包括這個所謂的學者跟我討論這個議題我們一直很關注那我們那時候也在跟這個平台商也有一家不斷的協商那再說因為這一年多的變化蠻大的所以會讓我們原來我們原來我剛上任的時候他們有跟我講說經過這麼多次討論結果\n\n04:35.487 --> 04:47.399\n那個覺得是租住臨界圈是一個可走的方向但是呢經過這一年也發現租臨界圈也是有它很多的缺點所以變成就是說現在這個這個問題那當然這裡面很多討論剛剛講這個跟我們有很多這種關於這個這個數位這個媒體這個部長我最主要是說\n\n04:58.409 --> 05:23.949\n112年的9月6號是巴士會議的最後一次你上任之後不管是前朝或這一朝都沒有開因為你是主責單位你要叫NCC相關單位文化部大家一起來討論你既然沒有做那我們非常懷疑在關稅大戰之前你到底認為這是一個麻煩事你也講出來就直接說可是我們看到幾個單位的報告都說\n\n05:24.850 --> 05:53.930\n這個媒體有價你們都全力支持希望能夠促成那第二個我想請教一下你特別有談了嘛現在世界各國有在進行的譬如說2021最早澳洲完成了那加拿大2023那歐盟他是用另外的著作權的一個臨階權的這種概念去做的有點不一樣但是希望讓新聞是有價的這種的努力跟社群平台去協調那當然我就不一講了\n\n05:54.650 --> 06:21.821\n那從澳洲也好那Google他有達成那個協議然後提供了資金然後加拿大Google也是提供一年一億加幣一年23億台幣持續五年115億那再來歐盟呢歐盟就是太多國家了談不清楚那Meta的立場現在也清楚啦他就不玩啦\n\n06:22.990 --> 06:24.732\n談好了也不玩了反正翻臉了就這樣那這種情況我真的是有一個建議\n\n06:31.874 --> 06:52.420\n我知道你們有很多的一個顧慮啊可是我們也希望是不是讓台灣也有點在這上面有個立場我們是服務貿易被人家賺錢的國家在那邊不吭不哈什麼都不敢說也沒有道理吧太過分了不要說嘛談不成的不要說那我一樣以加拿大4000萬人口是我們人口的1.7倍\n\n06:53.940 --> 07:10.628\n他的新聞媒體對1.7倍他五年的計畫Google五年的計畫115億台幣好不好那現在Google也謝謝他是台灣第一個在談的過程2023年他講三年一年1億台幣\n\n07:12.639 --> 07:34.047\n然後就這樣嗎我是覺得因為你現在還沒開過會我覺得不能這樣我覺得這兩個加起來人口差1.7倍但是他提供的讓我們媒體能夠有這樣的一個資金不管是版權或者AI提升各方面他提供的資金是3億比115億我們將近40倍\n\n07:37.228 --> 07:45.161\n我倒是覺得這個法案有沒有立什麼時候立起來但是這個部分我是建議是不是部長能夠接續能夠為了我們這個國家的這個整體的新聞發展利益來繼續協調可以嗎\n\n07:52.852 --> 08:07.441\n不過剛剛委員講說我們都沒有開過會這是不對的因為事實上這個東西我們內部開了好幾次會議然後我們也跟平台業者因為重點是平台業者要不要配合所以我們也甚至飛到美國跟像Meta有開過會所以這個問題的因為是這個問題本身我們很關注\n\n08:11.263 --> 08:27.148\n我知道你們開很多會啦什麼詐騙啊什麼都有我是講你那個整個大的行政院下面的機構我們調的文件這個機構就沒有跟你自己開會那兩回事啊那今天當然是真的是鼓勵你啦我們要去談判最後啊\n\n08:29.298 --> 08:51.111\n我們真的也發覺尤其在歐盟很多國家在談的過程中蠻難界定的包括什麼叫新聞新聞的界定那版權到底是誰譬如說是他家的攝影鏡頭然後媒體拿到了那錢到底誰分論嘛是那一家的那個個人對不對還是我那個法人還是那到底要分給誰呢\n\n08:52.492 --> 09:09.683\n對不對還是錢要跟誰要所以我在想喔這個問題我是覺得你們勢必要去認真去研議啦委員已經提了這麼多版本而且三個黨都有提出版本就等於說各黨派的一個共識都希望能夠去推讓新聞有價那現在顯來顯來這左邊是四種\n\n09:15.246 --> 09:29.751\n現在常看到的媒體的來源你看到一個好消息第一個有媒體自行去收集的喔自行採訪這個真的算是新聞媒體最賤鬼我就自己採訪自己發掘那百分之百是這個新聞媒體的這個沒有問題\n\n09:31.451 --> 09:50.485\n第二個是媒體引述其他人的一個新聞不管廠商活動這個的部分這兩個是媒體的第三個現在有超多的新聞我覺得至少三分之一就誰家的行車紀錄器誰家監視系統看到小偷跑過去車被偷然後就別人的\n\n09:51.866 --> 10:19.543\nrawmaterial新聞點是在那個影片是一個屬於個人或者一個社區的他拿過來民共提供但是媒體報導他到底錢到底要分誰當然最後一個像爆料公司啊社群平台他做一個爆料被營用的所以新聞的產生的一個架構蠻多的來源也不一定那這個新聞如果有分論到底要給誰這是一個未來要思考的問題好不好因為時間已經超過很多\n\n10:20.524 --> 10:31.382\n麻煩我是覺得整個大的平台真的要開個會了好不好因為委員提了這麼多版本你整個行政院的平台還是要運作起來我們會很重視各委員的版本會再跟委員討論好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.169,"end":9.314,"text":"好 謝謝主席 有請我們世衛部王部長好 路委員好"},{"start":10.765,"end":36.002,"text":"好 部長今天主要齁 這個要開始我們有一些法案嘛針對你們所謂媒體溢價相關的一些立法但我們今天早上就看到你們昨天有表達意見嘛就擔心這個可能會造成美國關稅的一個報復嘛齁我看到報紙這樣寫是你的意思嘛齁是我們研究的出來的結果 對研究出來的結果 好那現在 現在有個問題喔"},{"start":38.575,"end":65.601,"text":"這個當然就是川普總統啊讓美國再次偉大各個總統要讓他國家再偉大我是覺得一點錯都沒有好他提出了這個關稅關稅的大戰已經開始了那所有人都知道那是貨品貿易具體的透過空運海運運過去的互相世界的一個貿易具象的貨品貿易那請問一下Google Meta這是貨品貿易還是服務貿易"},{"start":67.722,"end":83.661,"text":"報告委員事實上有個實際的例子就是說美國貿易代表署跟護國家安全顧問他提出一個十項不公平的數位貿易慣例數位貿易也是列為他們一個主要關稅的一個考量所以並沒有不是只有實體的貨品這個數位"},{"start":86.625,"end":98.321,"text":"這個部長能不能有一點我們中華民國我們台灣的立場好不好因為我們聽到Mega美國偉大我們已經背得好熟啦那台灣呢我跟你講齁現在簡單來說"},{"start":101.175,"end":119.198,"text":"川普總統的邏輯很清楚嘛因為主要的一個關稅貨品貿易因為他都是逆差你們這麼多國家賣這麼多東西給我我輸出的巨項的一個貨品這麼少所以對美國不公平所以他要去做一個用關稅才來調整是他一個基本的邏輯"},{"start":120.515,"end":138.802,"text":"那服務貿易抱歉倒過來對台灣來講這種世界貿易的服務貿易的一個形態台灣對美國我們是逆差啊逆差啊就川普這種邏輯就是說抱歉對台灣不公平服務貿易啊"},{"start":139.722,"end":161.383,"text":"沒有 我是希望你們在討論這個事情要有一些立場而且你們在談判的時候總是有一些對我有利的吧還是一去就是趴在地下嗎這本來就Full Money你們賺這麼多錢從不管是Google Meta Netflix你只要講出來的賺錢不用打關稅就來來去去所以這個部分我覺得是應該變成政府"},{"start":161.983,"end":179.029,"text":"一個討價還價的一個籌碼所以我也希望說這個數位部在這方面能夠在談判的時候就你們的立場所有這種服務貿易也能夠來幫忙這個談判能夠促成那我再請教一下你今天有特別提出來說"},{"start":181.883,"end":205.275,"text":"這個溢價相關的一些法案 你有點擔心那當然因為這個關稅大戰是大概上個月才開始那請問一下你去年在幹嘛那個 報委等一下我講完 110年啦 你還沒上任啦你這個整個行政院當時就成立國內產業大型數位平台共融發展協調小組"},{"start":206.724,"end":231.735,"text":"然後到111年 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人擬具「數位新聞發展與民主韌性法草案」案；\n六、審查委員范雲等21人擬具「數位新聞發展與民主韌性法草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1144501_00002"}}}