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00:01:53,923\n這個數目有沒有對啊你如果兩年一次的話或者我說政府應該要幫忙他們健檢幾次但卻健檢了幾次我跟委員報告就是說10708年是有針對全對沒錯我知道你講的是這個蘭嶼居民健康檢查的這個專案的一個計畫嘛對不對就是107年11月14號到108年3月12號\n\n6\n00:02:12,549 --> 00:02:28,935\n好那就是這麼短的時間幾個月而已而且看起來是一次性所以這個核廢料是長期儲存在蘭嶼但是呢我們政府對於這個蘭嶼居民的這個健檢卻像是一夜情過了就沒了所以\n\n7\n00:02:34,466 --> 00:02:55,452\n剛剛部長點出一個很重要的事情就是說那個核廢料是長期儲存在蘭嶼嘛你如果住在旁邊你也會想要多健檢幾次嘛對不對頻率想要高一點嘛所以我們政府應該對於這個蘭嶼居民的健康的這個風險的監測應該是一個持續性而不是一次性的這個狀態\n\n8\n00:03:02,314 --> 00:03:16,746\n所以我不知道我這樣提醒部長有沒有認同我認同好謝謝那再來我就再繼續討論就是說剛才我們很感謝那個我們認養台東的莊岳雄總站委員說國民黨要求\n\n9\n00:03:20,269 --> 00:03:33,675\n他用騙的方式把12桶的55加侖的核廢料大罐頭丟在蘭嶼但是呢民進黨政府也不能只有甜言蜜語我原住民也說你好小白浪\n\n10\n00:03:36,837 --> 00:03:49,272\n105年8月1號蔡英文總統特別代表政府向蘭嶼亞美族人道歉說過去的政府在他們不知情的情況下將核廢料存放在蘭嶼\n\n11\n00:03:52,295 --> 00:04:17,191\n當然在109年6月的時候呢本席也特別陪同了我們現在的賴清德總統也是時任的副總統特別到前往蘭嶼像這個我們去關心了地方的建設文化還有這個醫療我們特別去看了這個衛生所好像時署長那時候也有去嗎也有去那時候陣容還蠻龐大的\n\n12\n00:04:22,794 --> 00:04:49,382\n當時特別亞美族大家非常尊敬的一位棋老他們稱作是資政他向賴清德總統表示就是說希望當地的醫療要加強當地的醫療資源我們的賴清德總統也跟他講回應說我們來其實政府就是要來解決問題的\n\n13\n00:04:50,902 --> 00:05:06,113\n所以才會有後續我們大家歷經了幾位部長還有我們相關各部門大家不斷的在討論說我們要怎麼樣來加強蘭嶼的醫療資源然後怎麼樣來蓋這個就是說來擴大這個衛生所的量能然後來蓋怎麼樣擴大要怎麼蓋這個醫療院所\n\n14\n00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:26,448\n我有看你們的紀錄你們也是很認真在討論只不過是最近就突然慢下來了所以今天前天我還特別打電話致電給這個新上任的吳清美鄉長我說請教她說如果我們到衛福部到這個蘭嶼\n\n15\n00:05:38,558 --> 00:05:44,344\n就特別在這個衛生所這個附近那一塊地那15塊地那邊把它蓋這個醫療院所你們反應怎麼樣有沒有諮商同意權的問題哇那鄉長突然那個語調高八度他說\n\n16\n00:05:55,257 --> 00:06:23,909\n我們非常的期待非常的歡迎廂長資商統一權是公所要辦理的啦所以如果廂長都這麼講了這有什麼問題那現在的問題就是我要來請教你們就是說你們的這個興建計畫到底什麼時候要提出因為提出之後還要抱怨這都需要時間的因為這個整個事情已經討論了六年了所以我請教部長\n\n17\n00:06:25,151 --> 00:06:46,974\n你今年可以提出嗎?新建計畫剛剛你有答應專委員說今年可以提出我想我們從108年看布裡面就針對這個一直在評估那中間也碰到土地轉移原來在某一塊那不行又轉移到衛生所這一塊那衛生所這一塊上面也有\n\n18\n00:06:50,676 --> 00:07:15,321\n所以當時我們是想說土地那個的問題那土地的問題如果能夠解決我想我們應該原來的規劃我覺得你們要回去講那個土地怎麼樣我就會覺得這落入一個雞生蛋蛋生雞的那個陷阱啦其實不管怎麼樣我都覺得你們同步去準備你不報這個興建計畫你怎麼\n\n19\n00:07:17,401 --> 00:07:31,642\n有錢去採購那個土地要怎麼去辦理所以我也我們如果先不去講那個細節啦我就問我就問說你的興建計畫你什麼時候提出嘛\n\n20\n00:07:33,666 --> 00:08:02,348\n跟委員報告我們其實一直都是往在我們讓那個蘭嶼的醫療的量能夠增加也增加他的醫療的使用的空間因為現在看起來在這個部分裡面衛生署的功能其實已經到一個瓶頸那我們當然現在因為等於我們要抱一個貢獻計畫就是第一個要土地取得第二個就是說我們要知道說當地的需求是什麼醫師科別然後裡面還有因為他最主要地方這邊也跟我們提過說他要把衛生所\n\n21\n00:08:02,908 --> 00:08:20,451\n還有他的長照站要合在剛剛提到的這些也都沒有問題啊現在難得有園民會啦縣政府啦公所大家都非常的配合就差你們什麼時候要提出抱怨嘛\n\n22\n00:08:21,352 --> 00:08:32,020\n對啊你說那麼多我們會跟地方這邊你們前面不是剛剛我剛剛有坐在下面聽啊你們答應那個莊委員說今年會送出來嘛他有講他也提醒你們說我等一下上來我會追問幾月\n\n23\n00:08:34,253 --> 00:08:54,253\n我們趕快了解趕快了解針對需求我們來提問我覺得你們在大小眼啊剛剛跟莊委員講說今年會送出嘛我就問一下幾月而已你連今年會送出的答案你都捨不得給我是因為他比較兇嗎還是怎麼樣\n\n24\n00:08:57,540 --> 00:09:07,613\n我們今年底以前送出來好了今年底以前送出那所以今年底幾月份你十月可以嗎十月已經是年底了\n\n25\n00:09:09,091 --> 00:09:37,179\n因為那個院還要核定嘛還需要時間因為前面已經等你們很久了我們計劃院我們趕快去了解整個醫療需求然後那個土地的狀況我們趕快再十月好不好我們抓十月份那也留兩個月給行政院去讓他們趕快我們趕看看今年能不能給他核定嘛\n\n26\n00:09:38,289 --> 00:10:01,400\n好我們10位來寫出計畫拜託了那所以就是說剛剛那個土地我知道你們有那個兩筆占用嘛還有一筆那個私人的我想那個費用應該也沒有很高啦而且齁我現在要講一下就我再替大家問一下就那你們那個預算編列喔傳輸規模大概是怎麼樣可以講一下嗎\n\n27\n00:10:03,949 --> 00:10:19,745\n委員報告因為這個部分還沒有跟我們像蘭嶼或是我們台東衛生區這邊談他們的需求所以我們會加緊腳步來跟他們談那需要多少的當然我們按照一些設施標準還有當地的所以現在不能講是不是那床數能不能講你們的規劃理想中\n\n28\n00:10:21,697 --> 00:10:43,847\n當時我們是大概有預估是20床啦你還蠻誠實的20床我有聽說因為我本來有聽到35這個數字後來了解說15床是洗腎用的所以你還蠻老實的那20床就很夠用了嗎這個是大概預估到比如說幾年還是我們要有遠見一點有沒有要未雨綢繆\n\n29\n00:10:45,308 --> 00:11:12,950\n因為不只蘭嶼的居民嘛因為那個我舉個例子啦我剛才一直在講那個這個屏東就是恆春那個旅遊醫院重建醫療大樓這件事情那當時的那個蘇貞昌院長我真的很佩服他他就很霸氣的講說我們當地五萬居民但是你不能用五萬的量能去看因為他還有四百萬人次的這個\n\n30\n00:11:14,771 --> 00:11:23,996\n遊客後來他拍板定案用600萬的規模去看600萬人次的規模去看那一樣啊這邊床數以這個你們專業但是有遠見的評估20床夠不夠\n\n31\n00:11:31,622 --> 00:11:49,125\n你不一定要今天給我答案我也不敢講我就請你們就是說要有遠見的去規劃那即便你如果說有把握說他們都不會碰壁我會把他照顧得好好的你甚實傳我也沒有意見但是那不可能啦\n\n32\n00:11:50,829 --> 00:12:04,526\n我們會一一需求所以我覺得這個預算的編列是一個態度的問題我們真的很羨慕很羨慕就是說有這樣的一個院長要蓋幾間便衣在他的家鄉\n\n33\n00:12:06,008 --> 00:12:24,012\n我現在只是做立法委員我沒有當院長不然我就會拍板訂案說你要蘭嶼蓋醫院我要人給人我要錢給錢經費無上限這都是蘇貞昌院長以前講過的話我也希望說那個部長你有這樣子的豪氣後來可能可以做議長這樣好不好\n\n34\n00:12:29,073 --> 00:12:52,087\n我們一定會努力來符合因為我們去思考這個經費要怎麼樣的匡列你可以這樣子想像就是說不要多我如果一桶55加侖的核廢料放在你家旁邊就好或者你家裡面你覺得政府要給你多少錢才能夠補償你你這樣去想一想\n\n35\n00:12:53,562 --> 00:13:20,473\n對不對可能你一毛錢都不想要因為健康無價嘛所以這個有時候預算無上限也合理啦好那再來我就請教你們在這個部長的心目中就是說這樣的規劃你希望什麼時候可以動工啟用我們總要有一個目標啊不然永遠都會講說土地怎麼樣啦然後預算怎麼樣啊對不對\n\n36\n00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:46,321\n可以規劃一下嗎?我們要有願景跟委員報告因為這個部分我們會報行政院那行政院這邊就是他們的公建計畫是有他們一定的流程所以我是說我們先不要就是說我們不要糾結在那邊啦我們要完成這件功德無量的事情\n\n37\n00:13:47,492 --> 00:14:07,021\n你的人生理想規劃中在我們過去在蓋部立院大概都要兩年到三年啦這個部分因為等於是裡面還要有一些所謂的細部計畫那我可以從今年開始往後算三年嗎應該經費還沒有下來因為這個要報行政院行政院這邊會有那我是說你要有願景啊\n\n38\n00:14:08,612 --> 00:14:22,684\n不然那個今年你們那個五六月大概衛福部又要報要準備明年的這個規劃那個預算的規劃嘛對不對你要有願景嘛不然你怎麼弄你們都老鳥了要用公正計劃我知道啦你不用抓個時程嗎\n\n39\n00:14:33,939 --> 00:14:55,815\n就是你總是有計劃嘛我現在講的很簡單的事情現在我在問你的理想上我沒有說你也不是院長我不可能我明天還會問院長啦所以院長說什麼時候他說了算我現在是問你的計劃你的規劃嘛院長一定會問你啊你要講出一個答案讓他參考啊\n\n40\n00:14:57,057 --> 00:15:10,453\n不然遙遙無期如果說公建計畫在那邊核准大概就要三年我們在過去的醫院的經驗是這樣順利的話就是三年我想就是說很壓縮我們給自己很有壓力的我們努力\n\n41\n00:15:12,975 --> 00:15:37,847\n來達成這個事那我們就是大概預估三年的時間那我這樣也知道我明天跟院長對話的時候我也可以很清楚知道怎麼跟他討價還價給他設定一個期程所以我想就是說我們今天大家可以了解這樣的一個願景我們一直有持續在推動那\n\n42\n00:15:39,113 --> 00:15:45,604\n也最後就是要提醒再回頭講最前面那個健檢那個事情我覺得那個是政府的疏忽\n\n43\n00:15:47,388 --> 00:16:13,485\n我們核廢料並沒有馬上要給人家移走還不曉得要放多久搞不好這輩子就都一直放在那邊所以給人家提供的那個健檢我覺得也不能只是一次性所以那個核廢料的健康風險我也希望說這個部分能夠納入這個醫院的功能然後要設置長期的健康監測的機制都是要有的\n\n44\n00:16:13,925 --> 00:16:39,113\n好那另外要提醒最後要提醒就是說畢竟我們在這個醫院醫療院所啦我想醫療院所這樣比較好一點在完成之前起碼要有三年的時間那在這個完成之前這中間我們是不是可以做點什麼有什麼樣的機制可以補強這中間的的一個空白\n\n45\n00:16:40,234 --> 00:16:55,511\n還有過去彌補這個健檢的不足所以這個部分你們是不是可以一併來快速的這個部分三年的這個配套機制可能就不是要讓你考慮很久你是不是可以在兩個月內提出來\n\n46\n00:16:56,672 --> 00:17:12,098\n這個沒有問題我想我們今天要求大概是這樣我想蘭嶼的居民也包括我的族人我們的陽美族人也在那邊其實真的受了非常多的委屈\n\n47\n00:17:13,258 --> 00:17:35,159\n那我今天必須要講不管是過去的政黨誰很夭壽但是今天是民進黨執政我們不能只有說好聽的話我們要有具體的行動去實現去顧到他們的這個醫療平權這個很重要的一個權利我們大家一起努力謝謝我們會努力謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6435\t32561\t謝謝主席,我慢慢請那個邱部長還有林青鳳執行長跟社家署的組長部長好,等一下不好意思,那個社...對阿,你是...蛤?喔,趙護士,抱歉趙護士,護士長那你社家署先...\n33953\t35195\t部長我先請教,你大概多久健檢一次?兩年\n53227\t71738\t兩年 還可以 那個執行長呢也是兩年 那個我們副市長呢也是兩年 你們都還蠻標準的那如果我這樣請教 如果你們住在十萬桶的核廢料旁邊你們覺得你要多久見檢一次十萬桶的核廢料旁邊你幾歲人可能每天都會有點緊張\n82154\t94924\t會想要多健檢幾次嗎還是標準就好了一定會頻率想要高一點頻率想要高一點那我再請教就是從1982年從這個核廢料儲存在蘭嶼那政府幫蘭嶼的這個居民健檢幾次1982年\n105380\t113923\t這個數目有沒有對啊你如果兩年一次的話或者我說政府應該要幫忙他們健檢幾次但卻健檢了幾次我跟委員報告就是說10708年是有針對全對沒錯我知道你講的是這個蘭嶼居民健康檢查的這個專案的一個計畫嘛對不對就是107年11月14號到108年3月12號\n132549\t148935\t好那就是這麼短的時間幾個月而已而且看起來是一次性所以這個核廢料是長期儲存在蘭嶼但是呢我們政府對於這個蘭嶼居民的這個健檢卻像是一夜情過了就沒了所以\n154466\t175452\t剛剛部長點出一個很重要的事情就是說那個核廢料是長期儲存在蘭嶼嘛你如果住在旁邊你也會想要多健檢幾次嘛對不對 頻率想要高一點嘛所以我們政府應該對於這個蘭嶼居民的健康的這個風險的監測應該是一個持續性而不是一次性的這個狀態\n182314\t196746\t所以我不知道我這樣提醒部長有沒有認同我認同好謝謝那再來我就再繼續討論就是說剛才我們很感謝那個我們認養台東的莊岳雄總站委員說國民黨要求\n200269\t213675\t他用騙的方式把12桶的55加侖的核廢料大罐頭丟在蘭嶼但是呢 民進黨政府也不能只有甜言蜜語我原住民也說你好小白浪\n216837\t229272\t105年8月1號蔡英文總統特別代表政府向蘭嶼亞美族人道歉說過去的政府在他們不知情的情況下將核廢料存放在蘭嶼\n232295\t257191\t當然在109年6月的時候呢本席也特別陪同了我們現在的賴清德總統也是時任的副總統特別到前往蘭嶼像這個我們去關心了地方的建設文化還有這個醫療我們特別去看了這個衛生所好像時署長那時候也有去嗎也有去那時候陣容還蠻龐大的\n262794\t289382\t當時特別亞美族大家非常尊敬的一位棋老他們稱作是資政他向賴清德總統表示就是說希望當地的醫療要加強當地的醫療資源我們的賴清德總統也跟他講回應說我們來其實政府就是要來解決問題的\n290902\t306113\t所以才會有後續我們大家歷經了幾位部長還有我們相關各部門大家不斷的在討論說我們要怎麼樣來加強蘭嶼的醫療資源然後怎麼樣來蓋這個就是說來擴大這個衛生所的量能然後來蓋怎麼樣擴大要怎麼蓋這個醫療院所\n317440\t326448\t我有看你們的紀錄你們也是很認真在討論只不過是最近就突然慢下來了所以今天前天我還特別打電話致電給這個新上任的吳清美鄉長我說請教她說如果我們到衛福部到這個蘭嶼\n338558\t344344\t就特別在這個衛生所這個附近那一塊地那15塊地那邊把它蓋這個醫療院所你們反應怎麼樣有沒有諮商同意權的問題哇那鄉長突然那個語調高八度他說\n355257\t383909\t我們非常的期待非常的歡迎廂長資商統一權是公所要辦理的啦所以如果廂長都這麼講了這有什麼問題那現在的問題就是我要來請教你們就是說你們的這個興建計畫到底什麼時候要提出因為提出之後還要抱怨這都需要時間的因為這個整個事情已經討論了六年了所以我請教部長\n385151\t406974\t你今年可以提出嗎?新建計畫剛剛你有答應專委員說今年可以提出我想我們從108年看布裡面就針對這個一直在評估那中間也碰到土地轉移原來在某一塊那不行又轉移到衛生所這一塊那衛生所這一塊上面也有\n410676\t435321\t所以當時我們是想說土地那個的問題那土地的問題如果能夠解決我想我們應該原來的規劃我覺得你們要回去講那個土地怎麼樣我就會覺得這落入一個雞生蛋蛋生雞的那個陷阱啦其實不管怎麼樣我都覺得你們同步去準備你不報這個興建計畫你怎麼\n437401\t451642\t有錢去採購那個土地要怎麼去辦理所以我也我們如果先不去講那個細節啦我就問我就問說你的興建計畫你什麼時候提出嘛\n453666\t482348\t跟委員報告我們其實一直都是往在我們讓那個蘭嶼的醫療的量能夠增加也增加他的醫療的使用的空間因為現在看起來在這個部分裡面衛生署的功能其實已經到一個瓶頸那我們當然現在因為等於我們要抱一個貢獻計畫就是第一個要土地取得第二個就是說我們要知道說當地的需求是什麼醫師科別然後裡面還有因為他最主要地方這邊也跟我們提過說他要把衛生所\n482908\t500451\t還有他的長照站要合在剛剛提到的這些也都沒有問題啊現在難得有園民會啦縣政府啦公所大家都非常的配合就差你們什麼時候要提出抱怨嘛\n501352\t512020\t對啊 你說那麼多我們會跟地方這邊你們前面不是剛剛我剛剛有坐在下面聽啊你們答應那個莊委員說今年會送出來嘛他有講他也提醒你們說我等一下上來我會追問幾月\n514253\t534253\t我們趕快了解 趕快了解 針對需求我們來提問我覺得你們在大小眼啊 剛剛跟莊委員講說今年會送出嘛我就問一下幾月而已 你連今年會送出的答案你都捨不得給我是因為他比較兇嗎 還是怎麼樣\n537540\t547613\t我們今年底以前送出來好了今年底以前送出 那所以今年底幾月份你十月可以嗎 十月已經是年底了\n549091\t577179\t因為那個院還要核定嘛還需要時間因為前面已經等你們很久了我們計劃院我們趕快去了解整個醫療需求然後那個土地的狀況我們趕快再十月好不好我們抓十月份那也留兩個月給行政院去讓他們趕快我們趕看看今年能不能給他核定嘛\n578289\t601400\t好 我們10位來寫出計畫拜託了那所以就是說剛剛那個土地我知道你們有那個兩筆占用嘛還有一筆那個私人的我想那個費用應該也沒有很高啦而且齁我現在要講一下就我再替大家問一下就那你們那個預算編列喔傳輸規模大概是怎麼樣可以講一下嗎\n603949\t619745\t委員報告因為這個部分還沒有跟我們像蘭嶼或是我們台東衛生區這邊談他們的需求所以我們會加緊腳步來跟他們談那需要多少的當然我們按照一些設施標準還有當地的所以現在不能講是不是那床數能不能講你們的規劃理想中\n621697\t643847\t當時我們是大概有預估是20床啦你還蠻誠實的 20床我有聽說 因為我本來有聽到35這個數字後來了解說15床是洗腎用的所以你還蠻老實的那20床就很夠用了嗎這個是大概預估到比如說幾年還是我們要有遠見一點有沒有要未雨綢繆\n645308\t672950\t因為不只蘭嶼的居民嘛因為那個我舉個例子啦我剛才一直在講那個這個屏東就是恆春那個旅遊醫院重建醫療大樓這件事情那當時的那個蘇貞昌院長我真的很佩服他他就很霸氣的講說我們當地五萬居民但是你不能用五萬的量能去看因為他還有四百萬人次的這個\n674771\t683996\t遊客後來他拍板定案用600萬的規模去看600萬人次的規模去看那一樣啊這邊床數以這個你們專業但是有遠見的評估20床夠不夠\n691622\t709125\t你不一定要今天給我答案我也不敢講我就請你們就是說要有遠見的去規劃那即便你如果說有把握說他們都不會碰壁我會把他照顧得好好的你甚實傳我也沒有意見但是那不可能啦\n710829\t724526\t我們會一一需求所以我覺得這個預算的編列是一個態度的問題我們真的很羨慕很羨慕就是說有這樣的一個院長要蓋幾間便衣在他的家鄉\n726008\t744012\t我現在只是做立法委員 我沒有當院長 不然我就會拍板訂案說你要蘭嶼蓋醫院 我要人給人 我要錢給錢經費無上限 這都是蘇貞昌院長以前講過的話我也希望說那個部長你有這樣子的豪氣 後來可能可以做議長這樣好不好\n749073\t772087\t我們一定會努力來符合因為我們去思考這個經費要怎麼樣的匡列你可以這樣子想像就是說不要多我如果一桶55加侖的核廢料放在你家旁邊就好或者你家裡面你覺得政府要給你多少錢才能夠補償你你這樣去想一想\n773562\t800473\t對不對可能你一毛錢都不想要因為健康無價嘛所以這個有時候預算無上限也合理啦好那再來我就請教你們在這個部長的心目中就是說這樣的規劃你希望什麼時候可以動工啟用我們總要有一個目標啊不然永遠都會講說土地怎麼樣啦然後預算怎麼樣啊對不對\n803120\t826321\t可以規劃一下嗎?我們要有願景跟委員報告因為這個部分我們會報行政院那行政院這邊就是他們的公建計畫是有他們一定的流程所以我是說我們先不要就是說我們不要糾結在那邊啦我們要完成這件功德無量的事情\n827492\t847021\t你的人生理想規劃中在我們過去在蓋部立院大概都要兩年到三年啦這個部分因為等於是裡面還要有一些所謂的細部計畫那我可以從今年開始往後算三年嗎應該經費還沒有下來因為這個要報行政院行政院這邊會有那我是說你要有願景啊\n848612\t862684\t不然那個今年你們那個五六月大概衛福部又要報要準備明年的這個規劃那個預算的規劃嘛對不對你要有願景嘛不然你怎麼弄你們都老鳥了要用公正計劃我知道啦你不用抓個時程嗎\n873939\t895815\t就是你總是有計劃嘛我現在講的很簡單的事情現在我在問你的理想上我沒有說你也不是院長我不可能我明天還會問院長啦所以院長說什麼時候他說了算我現在是問你的計劃你的規劃嘛院長一定會問你啊你要講出一個答案讓他參考啊\n897057\t910453\t不然遙遙無期 如果說公建計畫在那邊核准大概就要三年我們在過去的醫院的經驗是這樣順利的話就是三年我想就是說很壓縮我們給自己很有壓力的我們努力\n912975\t937847\t來達成這個事那我們就是大概預估三年的時間那我這樣也知道我明天跟院長對話的時候我也可以很清楚知道怎麼跟他討價還價給他設定一個期程所以我想就是說我們今天大家可以了解這樣的一個願景我們一直有持續在推動那\n939113\t945604\t也最後就是要提醒再回頭講最前面那個健檢那個事情我覺得那個是政府的疏忽\n947388\t973485\t我們核廢料並沒有馬上要給人家移走還不曉得要放多久搞不好這輩子就都一直放在那邊所以給人家提供的那個健檢我覺得也不能只是一次性所以那個核廢料的健康風險我也希望說這個部分能夠納入這個醫院的功能然後要設置長期的健康監測的機制都是要有的\n973925\t999113\t好那另外要提醒最後要提醒就是說畢竟我們在這個醫院醫療院所啦我想醫療院所這樣比較好一點在完成之前起碼要有三年的時間那在這個完成之前這中間我們是不是可以做點什麼有什麼樣的機制可以補強這中間的的一個空白\n1000234\t1015511\t還有過去彌補這個健檢的不足所以這個部分你們是不是可以一併來快速的這個部分三年的這個配套機制可能就不是要讓你考慮很久你是不是可以在兩個月內提出來\n1016672\t1032098\t這個沒有問題我想我們今天要求大概是這樣我想蘭嶼的居民也包括我的族人我們的陽美族人也在那邊其實真的受了非常多的委屈\n1033258\t1055159\t那我今天必須要講不管是過去的政黨誰很夭壽但是今天是民進黨執政我們不能只有說好聽的話我們要有具體的行動去實現去顧到他們的這個醫療平權這個很重要的一個權利我們大家一起努力 謝謝我們會努力 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我慢慢請那個邱部長還有林青鳳執行長跟社家署的組長部長好,等一下不好意思,那個社...對阿,你是...蛤?喔,趙護士,抱歉趙護士,護士長那你社家署先...\n部長我先請教,你大概多久健檢一次?兩年\n兩年 還可以 那個執行長呢也是兩年 那個我們副市長呢也是兩年 你們都還蠻標準的那如果我這樣請教 如果你們住在十萬桶的核廢料旁邊你們覺得你要多久見檢一次十萬桶的核廢料旁邊你幾歲人可能每天都會有點緊張\n會想要多健檢幾次嗎還是標準就好了一定會頻率想要高一點頻率想要高一點那我再請教就是從1982年從這個核廢料儲存在蘭嶼那政府幫蘭嶼的這個居民健檢幾次1982年\n這個數目有沒有對啊你如果兩年一次的話或者我說政府應該要幫忙他們健檢幾次但卻健檢了幾次我跟委員報告就是說10708年是有針對全對沒錯我知道你講的是這個蘭嶼居民健康檢查的這個專案的一個計畫嘛對不對就是107年11月14號到108年3月12號\n好那就是這麼短的時間幾個月而已而且看起來是一次性所以這個核廢料是長期儲存在蘭嶼但是呢我們政府對於這個蘭嶼居民的這個健檢卻像是一夜情過了就沒了所以\n剛剛部長點出一個很重要的事情就是說那個核廢料是長期儲存在蘭嶼嘛你如果住在旁邊你也會想要多健檢幾次嘛對不對 頻率想要高一點嘛所以我們政府應該對於這個蘭嶼居民的健康的這個風險的監測應該是一個持續性而不是一次性的這個狀態\n所以我不知道我這樣提醒部長有沒有認同我認同好謝謝那再來我就再繼續討論就是說剛才我們很感謝那個我們認養台東的莊岳雄總站委員說國民黨要求\n他用騙的方式把12桶的55加侖的核廢料大罐頭丟在蘭嶼但是呢 民進黨政府也不能只有甜言蜜語我原住民也說你好小白浪\n105年8月1號蔡英文總統特別代表政府向蘭嶼亞美族人道歉說過去的政府在他們不知情的情況下將核廢料存放在蘭嶼\n當然在109年6月的時候呢本席也特別陪同了我們現在的賴清德總統也是時任的副總統特別到前往蘭嶼像這個我們去關心了地方的建設文化還有這個醫療我們特別去看了這個衛生所好像時署長那時候也有去嗎也有去那時候陣容還蠻龐大的\n當時特別亞美族大家非常尊敬的一位棋老他們稱作是資政他向賴清德總統表示就是說希望當地的醫療要加強當地的醫療資源我們的賴清德總統也跟他講回應說我們來其實政府就是要來解決問題的\n所以才會有後續我們大家歷經了幾位部長還有我們相關各部門大家不斷的在討論說我們要怎麼樣來加強蘭嶼的醫療資源然後怎麼樣來蓋這個就是說來擴大這個衛生所的量能然後來蓋怎麼樣擴大要怎麼蓋這個醫療院所\n我有看你們的紀錄你們也是很認真在討論只不過是最近就突然慢下來了所以今天前天我還特別打電話致電給這個新上任的吳清美鄉長我說請教她說如果我們到衛福部到這個蘭嶼\n就特別在這個衛生所這個附近那一塊地那15塊地那邊把它蓋這個醫療院所你們反應怎麼樣有沒有諮商同意權的問題哇那鄉長突然那個語調高八度他說\n我們非常的期待非常的歡迎廂長資商統一權是公所要辦理的啦所以如果廂長都這麼講了這有什麼問題那現在的問題就是我要來請教你們就是說你們的這個興建計畫到底什麼時候要提出因為提出之後還要抱怨這都需要時間的因為這個整個事情已經討論了六年了所以我請教部長\n你今年可以提出嗎?新建計畫剛剛你有答應專委員說今年可以提出我想我們從108年看布裡面就針對這個一直在評估那中間也碰到土地轉移原來在某一塊那不行又轉移到衛生所這一塊那衛生所這一塊上面也有\n所以當時我們是想說土地那個的問題那土地的問題如果能夠解決我想我們應該原來的規劃我覺得你們要回去講那個土地怎麼樣我就會覺得這落入一個雞生蛋蛋生雞的那個陷阱啦其實不管怎麼樣我都覺得你們同步去準備你不報這個興建計畫你怎麼\n有錢去採購那個土地要怎麼去辦理所以我也我們如果先不去講那個細節啦我就問我就問說你的興建計畫你什麼時候提出嘛\n跟委員報告我們其實一直都是往在我們讓那個蘭嶼的醫療的量能夠增加也增加他的醫療的使用的空間因為現在看起來在這個部分裡面衛生署的功能其實已經到一個瓶頸那我們當然現在因為等於我們要抱一個貢獻計畫就是第一個要土地取得第二個就是說我們要知道說當地的需求是什麼醫師科別然後裡面還有因為他最主要地方這邊也跟我們提過說他要把衛生所\n還有他的長照站要合在剛剛提到的這些也都沒有問題啊現在難得有園民會啦縣政府啦公所大家都非常的配合就差你們什麼時候要提出抱怨嘛\n對啊 你說那麼多我們會跟地方這邊你們前面不是剛剛我剛剛有坐在下面聽啊你們答應那個莊委員說今年會送出來嘛他有講他也提醒你們說我等一下上來我會追問幾月\n我們趕快了解 趕快了解 針對需求我們來提問我覺得你們在大小眼啊 剛剛跟莊委員講說今年會送出嘛我就問一下幾月而已 你連今年會送出的答案你都捨不得給我是因為他比較兇嗎 還是怎麼樣\n我們今年底以前送出來好了今年底以前送出 那所以今年底幾月份你十月可以嗎 十月已經是年底了\n因為那個院還要核定嘛還需要時間因為前面已經等你們很久了我們計劃院我們趕快去了解整個醫療需求然後那個土地的狀況我們趕快再十月好不好我們抓十月份那也留兩個月給行政院去讓他們趕快我們趕看看今年能不能給他核定嘛\n好 我們10位來寫出計畫拜託了那所以就是說剛剛那個土地我知道你們有那個兩筆占用嘛還有一筆那個私人的我想那個費用應該也沒有很高啦而且齁我現在要講一下就我再替大家問一下就那你們那個預算編列喔傳輸規模大概是怎麼樣可以講一下嗎\n委員報告因為這個部分還沒有跟我們像蘭嶼或是我們台東衛生區這邊談他們的需求所以我們會加緊腳步來跟他們談那需要多少的當然我們按照一些設施標準還有當地的所以現在不能講是不是那床數能不能講你們的規劃理想中\n當時我們是大概有預估是20床啦你還蠻誠實的 20床我有聽說 因為我本來有聽到35這個數字後來了解說15床是洗腎用的所以你還蠻老實的那20床就很夠用了嗎這個是大概預估到比如說幾年還是我們要有遠見一點有沒有要未雨綢繆\n因為不只蘭嶼的居民嘛因為那個我舉個例子啦我剛才一直在講那個這個屏東就是恆春那個旅遊醫院重建醫療大樓這件事情那當時的那個蘇貞昌院長我真的很佩服他他就很霸氣的講說我們當地五萬居民但是你不能用五萬的量能去看因為他還有四百萬人次的這個\n遊客後來他拍板定案用600萬的規模去看600萬人次的規模去看那一樣啊這邊床數以這個你們專業但是有遠見的評估20床夠不夠\n你不一定要今天給我答案我也不敢講我就請你們就是說要有遠見的去規劃那即便你如果說有把握說他們都不會碰壁我會把他照顧得好好的你甚實傳我也沒有意見但是那不可能啦\n我們會一一需求所以我覺得這個預算的編列是一個態度的問題我們真的很羨慕很羨慕就是說有這樣的一個院長要蓋幾間便衣在他的家鄉\n我現在只是做立法委員 我沒有當院長 不然我就會拍板訂案說你要蘭嶼蓋醫院 我要人給人 我要錢給錢經費無上限 這都是蘇貞昌院長以前講過的話我也希望說那個部長你有這樣子的豪氣 後來可能可以做議長這樣好不好\n我們一定會努力來符合因為我們去思考這個經費要怎麼樣的匡列你可以這樣子想像就是說不要多我如果一桶55加侖的核廢料放在你家旁邊就好或者你家裡面你覺得政府要給你多少錢才能夠補償你你這樣去想一想\n對不對可能你一毛錢都不想要因為健康無價嘛所以這個有時候預算無上限也合理啦好那再來我就請教你們在這個部長的心目中就是說這樣的規劃你希望什麼時候可以動工啟用我們總要有一個目標啊不然永遠都會講說土地怎麼樣啦然後預算怎麼樣啊對不對\n可以規劃一下嗎?我們要有願景跟委員報告因為這個部分我們會報行政院那行政院這邊就是他們的公建計畫是有他們一定的流程所以我是說我們先不要就是說我們不要糾結在那邊啦我們要完成這件功德無量的事情\n你的人生理想規劃中在我們過去在蓋部立院大概都要兩年到三年啦這個部分因為等於是裡面還要有一些所謂的細部計畫那我可以從今年開始往後算三年嗎應該經費還沒有下來因為這個要報行政院行政院這邊會有那我是說你要有願景啊\n不然那個今年你們那個五六月大概衛福部又要報要準備明年的這個規劃那個預算的規劃嘛對不對你要有願景嘛不然你怎麼弄你們都老鳥了要用公正計劃我知道啦你不用抓個時程嗎\n就是你總是有計劃嘛我現在講的很簡單的事情現在我在問你的理想上我沒有說你也不是院長我不可能我明天還會問院長啦所以院長說什麼時候他說了算我現在是問你的計劃你的規劃嘛院長一定會問你啊你要講出一個答案讓他參考啊\n不然遙遙無期 如果說公建計畫在那邊核准大概就要三年我們在過去的醫院的經驗是這樣順利的話就是三年我想就是說很壓縮我們給自己很有壓力的我們努力\n來達成這個事那我們就是大概預估三年的時間那我這樣也知道我明天跟院長對話的時候我也可以很清楚知道怎麼跟他討價還價給他設定一個期程所以我想就是說我們今天大家可以了解這樣的一個願景我們一直有持續在推動那\n也最後就是要提醒再回頭講最前面那個健檢那個事情我覺得那個是政府的疏忽\n我們核廢料並沒有馬上要給人家移走還不曉得要放多久搞不好這輩子就都一直放在那邊所以給人家提供的那個健檢我覺得也不能只是一次性所以那個核廢料的健康風險我也希望說這個部分能夠納入這個醫院的功能然後要設置長期的健康監測的機制都是要有的\n好那另外要提醒最後要提醒就是說畢竟我們在這個醫院醫療院所啦我想醫療院所這樣比較好一點在完成之前起碼要有三年的時間那在這個完成之前這中間我們是不是可以做點什麼有什麼樣的機制可以補強這中間的的一個空白\n還有過去彌補這個健檢的不足所以這個部分你們是不是可以一併來快速的這個部分三年的這個配套機制可能就不是要讓你考慮很久你是不是可以在兩個月內提出來\n這個沒有問題我想我們今天要求大概是這樣我想蘭嶼的居民也包括我的族人我們的陽美族人也在那邊其實真的受了非常多的委屈\n那我今天必須要講不管是過去的政黨誰很夭壽但是今天是民進黨執政我們不能只有說好聽的話我們要有具體的行動去實現去顧到他們的這個醫療平權這個很重要的一個權利我們大家一起努力 謝謝我們會努力 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.435 --> 00:32.561\n謝謝主席,我慢慢請那個邱部長還有林青鳳執行長跟社家署的組長部長好,等一下不好意思,那個社...對阿,你是...蛤?喔,趙護士,抱歉趙護士,護士長那你社家署先...\n\n00:33.953 --> 00:35.195\n部長我先請教,你大概多久健檢一次?兩年\n\n00:53.227 --> 01:11.738\n兩年還可以那個執行長呢也是兩年那個我們副市長呢也是兩年你們都還蠻標準的那如果我這樣請教如果你們住在十萬桶的核廢料旁邊你們覺得你要多久見檢一次十萬桶的核廢料旁邊你幾歲人可能每天都會有點緊張\n\n01:22.154 --> 01:34.924\n會想要多健檢幾次嗎還是標準就好了一定會頻率想要高一點頻率想要高一點那我再請教就是從1982年從這個核廢料儲存在蘭嶼那政府幫蘭嶼的這個居民健檢幾次1982年\n\n01:45.380 --> 01:53.923\n這個數目有沒有對啊你如果兩年一次的話或者我說政府應該要幫忙他們健檢幾次但卻健檢了幾次我跟委員報告就是說10708年是有針對全對沒錯我知道你講的是這個蘭嶼居民健康檢查的這個專案的一個計畫嘛對不對就是107年11月14號到108年3月12號\n\n02:12.549 --> 02:28.935\n好那就是這麼短的時間幾個月而已而且看起來是一次性所以這個核廢料是長期儲存在蘭嶼但是呢我們政府對於這個蘭嶼居民的這個健檢卻像是一夜情過了就沒了所以\n\n02:34.466 --> 02:55.452\n剛剛部長點出一個很重要的事情就是說那個核廢料是長期儲存在蘭嶼嘛你如果住在旁邊你也會想要多健檢幾次嘛對不對頻率想要高一點嘛所以我們政府應該對於這個蘭嶼居民的健康的這個風險的監測應該是一個持續性而不是一次性的這個狀態\n\n03:02.314 --> 03:16.746\n所以我不知道我這樣提醒部長有沒有認同我認同好謝謝那再來我就再繼續討論就是說剛才我們很感謝那個我們認養台東的莊岳雄總站委員說國民黨要求\n\n03:20.269 --> 03:33.675\n他用騙的方式把12桶的55加侖的核廢料大罐頭丟在蘭嶼但是呢民進黨政府也不能只有甜言蜜語我原住民也說你好小白浪\n\n03:36.837 --> 03:49.272\n105年8月1號蔡英文總統特別代表政府向蘭嶼亞美族人道歉說過去的政府在他們不知情的情況下將核廢料存放在蘭嶼\n\n03:52.295 --> 04:17.191\n當然在109年6月的時候呢本席也特別陪同了我們現在的賴清德總統也是時任的副總統特別到前往蘭嶼像這個我們去關心了地方的建設文化還有這個醫療我們特別去看了這個衛生所好像時署長那時候也有去嗎也有去那時候陣容還蠻龐大的\n\n04:22.794 --> 04:49.382\n當時特別亞美族大家非常尊敬的一位棋老他們稱作是資政他向賴清德總統表示就是說希望當地的醫療要加強當地的醫療資源我們的賴清德總統也跟他講回應說我們來其實政府就是要來解決問題的\n\n04:50.902 --> 05:06.113\n所以才會有後續我們大家歷經了幾位部長還有我們相關各部門大家不斷的在討論說我們要怎麼樣來加強蘭嶼的醫療資源然後怎麼樣來蓋這個就是說來擴大這個衛生所的量能然後來蓋怎麼樣擴大要怎麼蓋這個醫療院所\n\n05:17.440 --> 05:26.448\n我有看你們的紀錄你們也是很認真在討論只不過是最近就突然慢下來了所以今天前天我還特別打電話致電給這個新上任的吳清美鄉長我說請教她說如果我們到衛福部到這個蘭嶼\n\n05:38.558 --> 05:44.344\n就特別在這個衛生所這個附近那一塊地那15塊地那邊把它蓋這個醫療院所你們反應怎麼樣有沒有諮商同意權的問題哇那鄉長突然那個語調高八度他說\n\n05:55.257 --> 06:23.909\n我們非常的期待非常的歡迎廂長資商統一權是公所要辦理的啦所以如果廂長都這麼講了這有什麼問題那現在的問題就是我要來請教你們就是說你們的這個興建計畫到底什麼時候要提出因為提出之後還要抱怨這都需要時間的因為這個整個事情已經討論了六年了所以我請教部長\n\n06:25.151 --> 06:46.974\n你今年可以提出嗎?新建計畫剛剛你有答應專委員說今年可以提出我想我們從108年看布裡面就針對這個一直在評估那中間也碰到土地轉移原來在某一塊那不行又轉移到衛生所這一塊那衛生所這一塊上面也有\n\n06:50.676 --> 07:15.321\n所以當時我們是想說土地那個的問題那土地的問題如果能夠解決我想我們應該原來的規劃我覺得你們要回去講那個土地怎麼樣我就會覺得這落入一個雞生蛋蛋生雞的那個陷阱啦其實不管怎麼樣我都覺得你們同步去準備你不報這個興建計畫你怎麼\n\n07:17.401 --> 07:31.642\n有錢去採購那個土地要怎麼去辦理所以我也我們如果先不去講那個細節啦我就問我就問說你的興建計畫你什麼時候提出嘛\n\n07:33.666 --> 08:02.348\n跟委員報告我們其實一直都是往在我們讓那個蘭嶼的醫療的量能夠增加也增加他的醫療的使用的空間因為現在看起來在這個部分裡面衛生署的功能其實已經到一個瓶頸那我們當然現在因為等於我們要抱一個貢獻計畫就是第一個要土地取得第二個就是說我們要知道說當地的需求是什麼醫師科別然後裡面還有因為他最主要地方這邊也跟我們提過說他要把衛生所\n\n08:02.908 --> 08:20.451\n還有他的長照站要合在剛剛提到的這些也都沒有問題啊現在難得有園民會啦縣政府啦公所大家都非常的配合就差你們什麼時候要提出抱怨嘛\n\n08:21.352 --> 08:32.020\n對啊你說那麼多我們會跟地方這邊你們前面不是剛剛我剛剛有坐在下面聽啊你們答應那個莊委員說今年會送出來嘛他有講他也提醒你們說我等一下上來我會追問幾月\n\n08:34.253 --> 08:54.253\n我們趕快了解趕快了解針對需求我們來提問我覺得你們在大小眼啊剛剛跟莊委員講說今年會送出嘛我就問一下幾月而已你連今年會送出的答案你都捨不得給我是因為他比較兇嗎還是怎麼樣\n\n08:57.540 --> 09:07.613\n我們今年底以前送出來好了今年底以前送出那所以今年底幾月份你十月可以嗎十月已經是年底了\n\n09:09.091 --> 09:37.179\n因為那個院還要核定嘛還需要時間因為前面已經等你們很久了我們計劃院我們趕快去了解整個醫療需求然後那個土地的狀況我們趕快再十月好不好我們抓十月份那也留兩個月給行政院去讓他們趕快我們趕看看今年能不能給他核定嘛\n\n09:38.289 --> 10:01.400\n好我們10位來寫出計畫拜託了那所以就是說剛剛那個土地我知道你們有那個兩筆占用嘛還有一筆那個私人的我想那個費用應該也沒有很高啦而且齁我現在要講一下就我再替大家問一下就那你們那個預算編列喔傳輸規模大概是怎麼樣可以講一下嗎\n\n10:03.949 --> 10:19.745\n委員報告因為這個部分還沒有跟我們像蘭嶼或是我們台東衛生區這邊談他們的需求所以我們會加緊腳步來跟他們談那需要多少的當然我們按照一些設施標準還有當地的所以現在不能講是不是那床數能不能講你們的規劃理想中\n\n10:21.697 --> 10:43.847\n當時我們是大概有預估是20床啦你還蠻誠實的20床我有聽說因為我本來有聽到35這個數字後來了解說15床是洗腎用的所以你還蠻老實的那20床就很夠用了嗎這個是大概預估到比如說幾年還是我們要有遠見一點有沒有要未雨綢繆\n\n10:45.308 --> 11:12.950\n因為不只蘭嶼的居民嘛因為那個我舉個例子啦我剛才一直在講那個這個屏東就是恆春那個旅遊醫院重建醫療大樓這件事情那當時的那個蘇貞昌院長我真的很佩服他他就很霸氣的講說我們當地五萬居民但是你不能用五萬的量能去看因為他還有四百萬人次的這個\n\n11:14.771 --> 11:23.996\n遊客後來他拍板定案用600萬的規模去看600萬人次的規模去看那一樣啊這邊床數以這個你們專業但是有遠見的評估20床夠不夠\n\n11:31.622 --> 11:49.125\n你不一定要今天給我答案我也不敢講我就請你們就是說要有遠見的去規劃那即便你如果說有把握說他們都不會碰壁我會把他照顧得好好的你甚實傳我也沒有意見但是那不可能啦\n\n11:50.829 --> 12:04.526\n我們會一一需求所以我覺得這個預算的編列是一個態度的問題我們真的很羨慕很羨慕就是說有這樣的一個院長要蓋幾間便衣在他的家鄉\n\n12:06.008 --> 12:24.012\n我現在只是做立法委員我沒有當院長不然我就會拍板訂案說你要蘭嶼蓋醫院我要人給人我要錢給錢經費無上限這都是蘇貞昌院長以前講過的話我也希望說那個部長你有這樣子的豪氣後來可能可以做議長這樣好不好\n\n12:29.073 --> 12:52.087\n我們一定會努力來符合因為我們去思考這個經費要怎麼樣的匡列你可以這樣子想像就是說不要多我如果一桶55加侖的核廢料放在你家旁邊就好或者你家裡面你覺得政府要給你多少錢才能夠補償你你這樣去想一想\n\n12:53.562 --> 13:20.473\n對不對可能你一毛錢都不想要因為健康無價嘛所以這個有時候預算無上限也合理啦好那再來我就請教你們在這個部長的心目中就是說這樣的規劃你希望什麼時候可以動工啟用我們總要有一個目標啊不然永遠都會講說土地怎麼樣啦然後預算怎麼樣啊對不對\n\n13:23.120 --> 13:46.321\n可以規劃一下嗎?我們要有願景跟委員報告因為這個部分我們會報行政院那行政院這邊就是他們的公建計畫是有他們一定的流程所以我是說我們先不要就是說我們不要糾結在那邊啦我們要完成這件功德無量的事情\n\n13:47.492 --> 14:07.021\n你的人生理想規劃中在我們過去在蓋部立院大概都要兩年到三年啦這個部分因為等於是裡面還要有一些所謂的細部計畫那我可以從今年開始往後算三年嗎應該經費還沒有下來因為這個要報行政院行政院這邊會有那我是說你要有願景啊\n\n14:08.612 --> 14:22.684\n不然那個今年你們那個五六月大概衛福部又要報要準備明年的這個規劃那個預算的規劃嘛對不對你要有願景嘛不然你怎麼弄你們都老鳥了要用公正計劃我知道啦你不用抓個時程嗎\n\n14:33.939 --> 14:55.815\n就是你總是有計劃嘛我現在講的很簡單的事情現在我在問你的理想上我沒有說你也不是院長我不可能我明天還會問院長啦所以院長說什麼時候他說了算我現在是問你的計劃你的規劃嘛院長一定會問你啊你要講出一個答案讓他參考啊\n\n14:57.057 --> 15:10.453\n不然遙遙無期如果說公建計畫在那邊核准大概就要三年我們在過去的醫院的經驗是這樣順利的話就是三年我想就是說很壓縮我們給自己很有壓力的我們努力\n\n15:12.975 --> 15:37.847\n來達成這個事那我們就是大概預估三年的時間那我這樣也知道我明天跟院長對話的時候我也可以很清楚知道怎麼跟他討價還價給他設定一個期程所以我想就是說我們今天大家可以了解這樣的一個願景我們一直有持續在推動那\n\n15:39.113 --> 15:45.604\n也最後就是要提醒再回頭講最前面那個健檢那個事情我覺得那個是政府的疏忽\n\n15:47.388 --> 16:13.485\n我們核廢料並沒有馬上要給人家移走還不曉得要放多久搞不好這輩子就都一直放在那邊所以給人家提供的那個健檢我覺得也不能只是一次性所以那個核廢料的健康風險我也希望說這個部分能夠納入這個醫院的功能然後要設置長期的健康監測的機制都是要有的\n\n16:13.925 --> 16:39.113\n好那另外要提醒最後要提醒就是說畢竟我們在這個醫院醫療院所啦我想醫療院所這樣比較好一點在完成之前起碼要有三年的時間那在這個完成之前這中間我們是不是可以做點什麼有什麼樣的機制可以補強這中間的的一個空白\n\n16:40.234 --> 16:55.511\n還有過去彌補這個健檢的不足所以這個部分你們是不是可以一併來快速的這個部分三年的這個配套機制可能就不是要讓你考慮很久你是不是可以在兩個月內提出來\n\n16:56.672 --> 17:12.098\n這個沒有問題我想我們今天要求大概是這樣我想蘭嶼的居民也包括我的族人我們的陽美族人也在那邊其實真的受了非常多的委屈\n\n17:13.258 --> 17:35.159\n那我今天必須要講不管是過去的政黨誰很夭壽但是今天是民進黨執政我們不能只有說好聽的話我們要有具體的行動去實現去顧到他們的這個醫療平權這個很重要的一個權利我們大家一起努力謝謝我們會努力謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.435,"end":32.561,"text":"謝謝主席,我慢慢請那個邱部長還有林青鳳執行長跟社家署的組長部長好,等一下不好意思,那個社...對阿,你是...蛤?喔,趙護士,抱歉趙護士,護士長那你社家署先..."},{"start":33.953,"end":35.195,"text":"部長我先請教,你大概多久健檢一次?兩年"},{"start":53.227,"end":71.738,"text":"兩年 還可以 那個執行長呢也是兩年 那個我們副市長呢也是兩年 你們都還蠻標準的那如果我這樣請教 如果你們住在十萬桶的核廢料旁邊你們覺得你要多久見檢一次十萬桶的核廢料旁邊你幾歲人可能每天都會有點緊張"},{"start":82.154,"end":94.924,"text":"會想要多健檢幾次嗎還是標準就好了一定會頻率想要高一點頻率想要高一點那我再請教就是從1982年從這個核廢料儲存在蘭嶼那政府幫蘭嶼的這個居民健檢幾次1982年"},{"start":105.38,"end":113.923,"text":"這個數目有沒有對啊你如果兩年一次的話或者我說政府應該要幫忙他們健檢幾次但卻健檢了幾次我跟委員報告就是說10708年是有針對全對沒錯我知道你講的是這個蘭嶼居民健康檢查的這個專案的一個計畫嘛對不對就是107年11月14號到108年3月12號"},{"start":132.549,"end":148.935,"text":"好那就是這麼短的時間幾個月而已而且看起來是一次性所以這個核廢料是長期儲存在蘭嶼但是呢我們政府對於這個蘭嶼居民的這個健檢卻像是一夜情過了就沒了所以"},{"start":154.466,"end":175.452,"text":"剛剛部長點出一個很重要的事情就是說那個核廢料是長期儲存在蘭嶼嘛你如果住在旁邊你也會想要多健檢幾次嘛對不對 頻率想要高一點嘛所以我們政府應該對於這個蘭嶼居民的健康的這個風險的監測應該是一個持續性而不是一次性的這個狀態"},{"start":182.314,"end":196.746,"text":"所以我不知道我這樣提醒部長有沒有認同我認同好謝謝那再來我就再繼續討論就是說剛才我們很感謝那個我們認養台東的莊岳雄總站委員說國民黨要求"},{"start":200.269,"end":213.675,"text":"他用騙的方式把12桶的55加侖的核廢料大罐頭丟在蘭嶼但是呢 民進黨政府也不能只有甜言蜜語我原住民也說你好小白浪"},{"start":216.837,"end":229.272,"text":"105年8月1號蔡英文總統特別代表政府向蘭嶼亞美族人道歉說過去的政府在他們不知情的情況下將核廢料存放在蘭嶼"},{"start":232.295,"end":257.191,"text":"當然在109年6月的時候呢本席也特別陪同了我們現在的賴清德總統也是時任的副總統特別到前往蘭嶼像這個我們去關心了地方的建設文化還有這個醫療我們特別去看了這個衛生所好像時署長那時候也有去嗎也有去那時候陣容還蠻龐大的"},{"start":262.794,"end":289.382,"text":"當時特別亞美族大家非常尊敬的一位棋老他們稱作是資政他向賴清德總統表示就是說希望當地的醫療要加強當地的醫療資源我們的賴清德總統也跟他講回應說我們來其實政府就是要來解決問題的"},{"start":290.902,"end":306.113,"text":"所以才會有後續我們大家歷經了幾位部長還有我們相關各部門大家不斷的在討論說我們要怎麼樣來加強蘭嶼的醫療資源然後怎麼樣來蓋這個就是說來擴大這個衛生所的量能然後來蓋怎麼樣擴大要怎麼蓋這個醫療院所"},{"start":317.44,"end":326.448,"text":"我有看你們的紀錄你們也是很認真在討論只不過是最近就突然慢下來了所以今天前天我還特別打電話致電給這個新上任的吳清美鄉長我說請教她說如果我們到衛福部到這個蘭嶼"},{"start":338.558,"end":344.344,"text":"就特別在這個衛生所這個附近那一塊地那15塊地那邊把它蓋這個醫療院所你們反應怎麼樣有沒有諮商同意權的問題哇那鄉長突然那個語調高八度他說"},{"start":355.257,"end":383.909,"text":"我們非常的期待非常的歡迎廂長資商統一權是公所要辦理的啦所以如果廂長都這麼講了這有什麼問題那現在的問題就是我要來請教你們就是說你們的這個興建計畫到底什麼時候要提出因為提出之後還要抱怨這都需要時間的因為這個整個事情已經討論了六年了所以我請教部長"},{"start":385.151,"end":406.974,"text":"你今年可以提出嗎?新建計畫剛剛你有答應專委員說今年可以提出我想我們從108年看布裡面就針對這個一直在評估那中間也碰到土地轉移原來在某一塊那不行又轉移到衛生所這一塊那衛生所這一塊上面也有"},{"start":410.676,"end":435.321,"text":"所以當時我們是想說土地那個的問題那土地的問題如果能夠解決我想我們應該原來的規劃我覺得你們要回去講那個土地怎麼樣我就會覺得這落入一個雞生蛋蛋生雞的那個陷阱啦其實不管怎麼樣我都覺得你們同步去準備你不報這個興建計畫你怎麼"},{"start":437.401,"end":451.642,"text":"有錢去採購那個土地要怎麼去辦理所以我也我們如果先不去講那個細節啦我就問我就問說你的興建計畫你什麼時候提出嘛"},{"start":453.666,"end":482.348,"text":"跟委員報告我們其實一直都是往在我們讓那個蘭嶼的醫療的量能夠增加也增加他的醫療的使用的空間因為現在看起來在這個部分裡面衛生署的功能其實已經到一個瓶頸那我們當然現在因為等於我們要抱一個貢獻計畫就是第一個要土地取得第二個就是說我們要知道說當地的需求是什麼醫師科別然後裡面還有因為他最主要地方這邊也跟我們提過說他要把衛生所"},{"start":482.908,"end":500.451,"text":"還有他的長照站要合在剛剛提到的這些也都沒有問題啊現在難得有園民會啦縣政府啦公所大家都非常的配合就差你們什麼時候要提出抱怨嘛"},{"start":501.352,"end":512.02,"text":"對啊 你說那麼多我們會跟地方這邊你們前面不是剛剛我剛剛有坐在下面聽啊你們答應那個莊委員說今年會送出來嘛他有講他也提醒你們說我等一下上來我會追問幾月"},{"start":514.253,"end":534.253,"text":"我們趕快了解 趕快了解 針對需求我們來提問我覺得你們在大小眼啊 剛剛跟莊委員講說今年會送出嘛我就問一下幾月而已 你連今年會送出的答案你都捨不得給我是因為他比較兇嗎 還是怎麼樣"},{"start":537.54,"end":547.613,"text":"我們今年底以前送出來好了今年底以前送出 那所以今年底幾月份你十月可以嗎 十月已經是年底了"},{"start":549.091,"end":577.179,"text":"因為那個院還要核定嘛還需要時間因為前面已經等你們很久了我們計劃院我們趕快去了解整個醫療需求然後那個土地的狀況我們趕快再十月好不好我們抓十月份那也留兩個月給行政院去讓他們趕快我們趕看看今年能不能給他核定嘛"},{"start":578.289,"end":601.4,"text":"好 我們10位來寫出計畫拜託了那所以就是說剛剛那個土地我知道你們有那個兩筆占用嘛還有一筆那個私人的我想那個費用應該也沒有很高啦而且齁我現在要講一下就我再替大家問一下就那你們那個預算編列喔傳輸規模大概是怎麼樣可以講一下嗎"},{"start":603.949,"end":619.745,"text":"委員報告因為這個部分還沒有跟我們像蘭嶼或是我們台東衛生區這邊談他們的需求所以我們會加緊腳步來跟他們談那需要多少的當然我們按照一些設施標準還有當地的所以現在不能講是不是那床數能不能講你們的規劃理想中"},{"start":621.697,"end":643.847,"text":"當時我們是大概有預估是20床啦你還蠻誠實的 20床我有聽說 因為我本來有聽到35這個數字後來了解說15床是洗腎用的所以你還蠻老實的那20床就很夠用了嗎這個是大概預估到比如說幾年還是我們要有遠見一點有沒有要未雨綢繆"},{"start":645.308,"end":672.95,"text":"因為不只蘭嶼的居民嘛因為那個我舉個例子啦我剛才一直在講那個這個屏東就是恆春那個旅遊醫院重建醫療大樓這件事情那當時的那個蘇貞昌院長我真的很佩服他他就很霸氣的講說我們當地五萬居民但是你不能用五萬的量能去看因為他還有四百萬人次的這個"},{"start":674.771,"end":683.996,"text":"遊客後來他拍板定案用600萬的規模去看600萬人次的規模去看那一樣啊這邊床數以這個你們專業但是有遠見的評估20床夠不夠"},{"start":691.622,"end":709.125,"text":"你不一定要今天給我答案我也不敢講我就請你們就是說要有遠見的去規劃那即便你如果說有把握說他們都不會碰壁我會把他照顧得好好的你甚實傳我也沒有意見但是那不可能啦"},{"start":710.829,"end":724.526,"text":"我們會一一需求所以我覺得這個預算的編列是一個態度的問題我們真的很羨慕很羨慕就是說有這樣的一個院長要蓋幾間便衣在他的家鄉"},{"start":726.008,"end":744.012,"text":"我現在只是做立法委員 我沒有當院長 不然我就會拍板訂案說你要蘭嶼蓋醫院 我要人給人 我要錢給錢經費無上限 這都是蘇貞昌院長以前講過的話我也希望說那個部長你有這樣子的豪氣 後來可能可以做議長這樣好不好"},{"start":749.073,"end":772.087,"text":"我們一定會努力來符合因為我們去思考這個經費要怎麼樣的匡列你可以這樣子想像就是說不要多我如果一桶55加侖的核廢料放在你家旁邊就好或者你家裡面你覺得政府要給你多少錢才能夠補償你你這樣去想一想"},{"start":773.562,"end":800.473,"text":"對不對可能你一毛錢都不想要因為健康無價嘛所以這個有時候預算無上限也合理啦好那再來我就請教你們在這個部長的心目中就是說這樣的規劃你希望什麼時候可以動工啟用我們總要有一個目標啊不然永遠都會講說土地怎麼樣啦然後預算怎麼樣啊對不對"},{"start":803.12,"end":826.321,"text":"可以規劃一下嗎?我們要有願景跟委員報告因為這個部分我們會報行政院那行政院這邊就是他們的公建計畫是有他們一定的流程所以我是說我們先不要就是說我們不要糾結在那邊啦我們要完成這件功德無量的事情"},{"start":827.492,"end":847.021,"text":"你的人生理想規劃中在我們過去在蓋部立院大概都要兩年到三年啦這個部分因為等於是裡面還要有一些所謂的細部計畫那我可以從今年開始往後算三年嗎應該經費還沒有下來因為這個要報行政院行政院這邊會有那我是說你要有願景啊"},{"start":848.612,"end":862.684,"text":"不然那個今年你們那個五六月大概衛福部又要報要準備明年的這個規劃那個預算的規劃嘛對不對你要有願景嘛不然你怎麼弄你們都老鳥了要用公正計劃我知道啦你不用抓個時程嗎"},{"start":873.939,"end":895.815,"text":"就是你總是有計劃嘛我現在講的很簡單的事情現在我在問你的理想上我沒有說你也不是院長我不可能我明天還會問院長啦所以院長說什麼時候他說了算我現在是問你的計劃你的規劃嘛院長一定會問你啊你要講出一個答案讓他參考啊"},{"start":897.057,"end":910.453,"text":"不然遙遙無期 如果說公建計畫在那邊核准大概就要三年我們在過去的醫院的經驗是這樣順利的話就是三年我想就是說很壓縮我們給自己很有壓力的我們努力"},{"start":912.975,"end":937.847,"text":"來達成這個事那我們就是大概預估三年的時間那我這樣也知道我明天跟院長對話的時候我也可以很清楚知道怎麼跟他討價還價給他設定一個期程所以我想就是說我們今天大家可以了解這樣的一個願景我們一直有持續在推動那"},{"start":939.113,"end":945.604,"text":"也最後就是要提醒再回頭講最前面那個健檢那個事情我覺得那個是政府的疏忽"},{"start":947.388,"end":973.485,"text":"我們核廢料並沒有馬上要給人家移走還不曉得要放多久搞不好這輩子就都一直放在那邊所以給人家提供的那個健檢我覺得也不能只是一次性所以那個核廢料的健康風險我也希望說這個部分能夠納入這個醫院的功能然後要設置長期的健康監測的機制都是要有的"},{"start":973.925,"end":999.113,"text":"好那另外要提醒最後要提醒就是說畢竟我們在這個醫院醫療院所啦我想醫療院所這樣比較好一點在完成之前起碼要有三年的時間那在這個完成之前這中間我們是不是可以做點什麼有什麼樣的機制可以補強這中間的的一個空白"},{"start":1000.234,"end":1015.511,"text":"還有過去彌補這個健檢的不足所以這個部分你們是不是可以一併來快速的這個部分三年的這個配套機制可能就不是要讓你考慮很久你是不是可以在兩個月內提出來"},{"start":1016.672,"end":1032.098,"text":"這個沒有問題我想我們今天要求大概是這樣我想蘭嶼的居民也包括我的族人我們的陽美族人也在那邊其實真的受了非常多的委屈"},{"start":1033.258,"end":1055.159,"text":"那我今天必須要講不管是過去的政黨誰很夭壽但是今天是民進黨執政我們不能只有說好聽的話我們要有具體的行動去實現去顧到他們的這個醫療平權這個很重要的一個權利我們大家一起努力 謝謝我們會努力 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":825,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（13時10分）謝謝主席，麻煩請邱部長，還有林慶豐執行長及社家署的組長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["陳委員瑩：部長好。等一下，不好意思，你是？照護司，抱歉！"],["邱部長泰源：照護司副司長。"],["陳委員瑩：社家署先坐一下，照護司陳副司長，是不是？"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["陳委員瑩：部長，我先請教，你大概多久健檢一次？"],["邱部長泰源：兩年。"],["陳委員瑩：兩年，還可以！執行長呢？"],["林執行長慶豐：也是兩年。"],["陳委員瑩：副司長呢？"],["陳副司長青梅：也是兩年。"],["陳委員瑩：你們都還蠻標準的，我這樣請教，如果你們住在10萬桶核廢料旁邊，你們覺得你要多久健檢一次？"],["邱部長泰源：10萬桶的核廢料旁邊？"],["陳委員瑩：對，你這輩子。"],["邱部長泰源：可能每天都會有點緊張。"],["陳委員瑩：會想要多健檢幾次嗎？還是標準就好了？"],["邱部長泰源：一定會想要頻率高一點嘛！"],["陳委員瑩：我再請教從1982年核廢料貯存在蘭嶼，政府幫蘭嶼居民健檢幾次？"],["邱部長泰源：這個數目有沒有……"],["陳委員瑩：你如果兩年一次的話，或者我說政府應該要幫忙他們健檢幾次，但卻健檢了幾次。"],["林執行長慶豐：我跟委員報告，107、108年有針對全蘭嶼……"],["陳委員瑩：對，沒錯！"],["林執行長慶豐：對，就是有做……"],["陳委員瑩：我知道你講的是蘭嶼居民健康檢查專案計畫，對不對？107年11月14號到108年3月12號，就是這麼短的時間，幾個月而已，而且看起來是一次性。核廢料是長期貯存在蘭嶼，但是我們政府對於蘭嶼居民的健檢卻像是一夜情，過了就沒了。剛剛部長點出一個很重要的事情，核廢料是長期貯存在蘭嶼，你如果住在旁邊，你也會想要多健檢幾次，對不對？頻率想要高一點嘛！所以我們政府對於蘭嶼居民的健康風險監測，應該是持續性，而不是一次性的狀態。我不知道我這樣提醒，部長有沒有認同？"],["邱部長泰源：我認同。"],["陳委員瑩：好，謝謝。再來我就再繼續討論，剛才我們很感謝認養臺東的莊瑞雄（雄讚）委員說：國民黨夭壽喔！他用騙的方式把10萬桶55加侖的核廢料大罐頭丟在蘭嶼。但是民進黨政府也不能只有甜言蜜語，不然我們原住民會說你是「嘐潲白浪」。105年8月1號蔡英文總統特別代表政府向蘭嶼雅美族人道歉，說過去的政府在他們不知情的情況下，將核廢料存放在蘭嶼。當然在109年6月的時候，本席特別陪同了現在的賴清德總統，也是時任的副總統特別前往蘭嶼，像我們去關心了地方的建設、文化還有醫療，我們特別去看了衛生所，好像石署長那時候也有去嗎？"],["石署長崇良：有。"],["陳委員瑩：也有去。那時候陣容還蠻龐大的，當時特別是雅美族大家非常尊敬的一位耆老，他們稱作是資政，他向賴清德總統表示，希望加強當地的醫療資源。賴清德總統也跟他回應說我們來，其實政府就是要來解決問題的，所以才會有後續歷經了幾位部長，還有相關各部門大家不斷地在討論，要怎麼樣加強蘭嶼的醫療資源？怎麼樣擴大衛生所的量能？怎麼蓋醫療院所？我有看你們的紀錄，你們也是很認真在討論，只不過最近就突然慢下來了嘛！所以前天我還特別致電給新上任的吳清美鄉長，我就請教他說如果衛福部到蘭嶼，特別在衛生所附近的15塊地那邊蓋醫療院所，你們的反應怎麼樣，有沒有諮商同意權的問題？哇！鄉長突然語調高八度，多高興咧！他說他們非常的期待、非常的歡迎！諮商同意權是公所要辦理的，所以如果鄉長都這麼講了，這有什麼問題？現在的問題就是我要來請教你們，你們的興建計畫到底什麼時候要提出？提出之後還要報院，這都需要時間的。因為整個事情已經討論了6年，所以我請教部長，你今年可以提出興建計畫嗎？剛剛你有答應莊委員說今年可以提出。"],["邱部長泰源：我們從108年部裡面就針對這個一直在評估，中間也碰到土地轉移，原來在某一塊，不行以後轉移到衛生所這一塊，衛生所這一塊上面也有私地嘛！"],["陳委員瑩：對，一塊而已，小小的。"],["邱部長泰源：所以當時我們是想說土地的問題，那土地的問題如果能夠解決，我想我們應該原來規劃的興建計畫……"],["陳委員瑩：你們要回頭講土地怎麼樣，我就會覺得這落入一個雞生蛋、蛋生雞的陷阱。其實不管怎麼樣，我都覺得你們同步去準備，你不報興建計畫，你怎麼有錢去採購土地、怎麼去辦理？"],["邱部長泰源：執行長要不要報告一下現在的計畫？"],["陳委員瑩：我們先不去講細節，我就問你的興建計畫什麼時候提出嘛？"],["林執行長慶豐：跟委員報告，我們其實一直都是讓蘭嶼的醫療量能能夠增加，也增加它醫療的使用空間，因為現在看起來在這個部分裡面，衛生所的功能其實已經到瓶頸，現在等於我們要報一個公建計畫，就是第一個要土地取得。第二個就是，我們要知道當地的需求是什麼，醫師、科別，然後裡面……還有最主要是地方也跟我們提過，他要把衛生所還有長照站合在剛剛提到的……"],["陳委員瑩：這些也都沒有問題啊！"],["林執行長慶豐：是，我們就是要跟地方……"],["陳委員瑩：現在難得原民會、縣政府、公所等大家都非常的配合，就差你們什麼時候要提出報院嘛！你說那麼多……"],["林執行長慶豐：我們會跟地方這邊……"],["陳委員瑩：你們前面不是……我剛剛有坐在下面聽，你們答應莊委員說今年會送出來嘛！他也提醒你們說，等一下我上來會追問幾月。"],["邱部長泰源：好，我們趕快……"],["陳委員瑩：你前面講的，我不要聽，我就問幾月？"],["邱部長泰源：該了解趕快了解，針對需求我們來提出……"],["陳委員瑩：不是，我覺得你們在大小眼，剛剛跟莊委員說今年會送出，我就問一下幾月而已，你連今年會送出的答案都捨不得給我，是因為他比較兇嗎？還是怎麼樣？"],["邱部長泰源：我們今年底以前送出來。"],["陳委員瑩：今年底以前送出，所以今年底是幾月份？10月可以嗎？10月也算年底了嘛！"],["邱部長泰源：10月……"],["陳委員瑩：院還要核定嘛！還需要時間，因為前面已經等你們很久了，監察院什麼都討論很久了。"],["邱部長泰源：好，我們趕快去了解整個醫療需求，然後土地的狀況，我們趕快在……"],["陳委員瑩：我給你們一個目標好不好？10月好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：好。"],["陳委員瑩：我們抓10月份，也留兩個月給行政院讓他們趕快……我們趕看看今年能不能核定嘛！"],["邱部長泰源：好，我們10月寫出計畫。"],["陳委員瑩：拜託！剛剛那個土地我知道有兩筆占用，還有一筆私人的，我想費用應該也沒有很高，而且我現在要講一下，我再替大家要問一下你們預算編列、床數規模大概是怎麼樣，可以講一下嗎？"],["林執行長慶豐：跟委員報告，這個部分因為還沒有跟蘭嶼或是臺東衛生局談他們的需求，所以我們會加緊腳步來跟他們談，需要多少的……當然我們按照一些設施標準還有當地的……"],["陳委員瑩：所以現在不能講，是不是？床數能不能講？你們理想中的規劃。"],["林執行長慶豐：當時我們大概預估是20床。"],["陳委員瑩：你還蠻誠實的，20床，我有聽說……我本來有聽到35這個數字，後來了解，15床是洗腎用的，所以你還蠻老實的，但是20床就很夠用了嗎？這個是大概預估到比如幾年，還是我們要有遠見一點，有沒有要未雨綢繆？因為不只蘭嶼的居民嘛！我舉個例子，我剛才一直在講，恆春旅遊醫院重建醫療大樓這件事情，當時的蘇貞昌院長，我真的很佩服他，他就很霸氣講說我們當地有5萬居民，但是不能用5萬的量能去看，因為它還有400萬人次的遊客，後來他拍板定案，用600萬人次的規模去看。一樣，這邊的床數，以你們專業但是有遠見的評估，20床夠不夠？你不一定要今天給我答案，我也不敢講，我就請你們要有遠見地去規劃……"],["邱部長泰源：好。"],["陳委員瑩：你如果有把握他們都不會生病，你會把他們照顧得好好的，你剩10床我也沒有意見，但是那不可能啦！"],["邱部長泰源：我們會因應需求。"],["陳委員瑩：對，所以我覺得預算的編列是一個態度的問題，我們真的很羨慕，很羨慕有這樣的一個院長，要蓋一間醫院在他的家鄉。我現在只是做立法委員，我沒有當院長，不然我就會拍板定案說：你要蘭嶼蓋醫院，我要人給人、我要錢給錢，經費無上限。這都是蘇貞昌院長以前講過的話，我也希望部長有這樣子的豪氣，以後可能可以當院長，這樣好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：我們一定會努力來符合蘭嶼的……"],["陳委員瑩：對，因為我們去思考這個經費要怎麼樣匡列，你可以這樣子想像，就是不要多，如果一桶55加侖的核廢料放在你家旁邊或者你家裡面，你覺得政府要給你多少錢才能夠補償你？你這樣去想一想，對不對？可能你一毛錢都不想要，因為健康無價嘛！所以有時候預算無上限也合理啦！","再來我就請教，在部長的心目中，這樣的規劃你希望什麼時候可以動工、啟用？我們總要有一個目標，不然永遠都會說土地怎麼樣，然後預算怎麼樣，對不對？可以規劃一下嗎？我們要有願景。"],["林執行長慶豐：跟委員報告，因為這個部分我們會報行政院，行政院的公建計畫有他們一定的流程，這個計畫……"],["陳委員瑩：這個我都理解啊！所以我是說我們先不要糾結在那邊，我們要完成這件功德無量的事情，在你的人生理想規劃中，你覺得什麼時候……"],["林執行長慶豐：照我們過去蓋部立醫院的經驗，差不多都要兩年到三年。"],["陳委員瑩：是。"],["林執行長慶豐：這個部分等於裡面還有一些所謂的細部計畫，還有一個前期計畫……"],["陳委員瑩：我可以從今年開始往後算三年嗎？"],["林執行長慶豐：經費還沒有下來，因為這個要報行政院，行政院會有……"],["陳委員瑩：我知道啊！我是說你要有願景，不然……"],["林執行長慶豐：委員，我們往這邊努力。"],["陳委員瑩：今年5、6月大概衛福部又要準備明年的預算規劃，對不對？你要有願景，不然你怎麼弄？你們都老鳥了。"],["邱部長泰源：這個要用公建計畫。"],["陳委員瑩：我知道啦！你不用抓個時辰嗎？你總是有計畫嘛！我現在講的是很簡單的事情，我要問你的理想上，我沒有說……你也不是院長，我不可能……我明天還會問院長啦！院長說什麼時候是他說了算，我現在是問你的計畫、你的規劃，院長一定會問你，你要講出一個答案讓他參考，不然遙遙無期耶！"],["林執行長慶豐：跟委員報告，公建計畫核准大概都要三年，以我們過去蓋醫院的經驗是這樣。"],["陳委員瑩：順利的話就是三年？"],["林執行長慶豐：對。"],["陳委員瑩：我想就是很壓縮，我們給自己很有壓力的，我們努力來達成這個事，大概預估三年的時間，這樣我明天跟院長對話的時候，我也可以很清楚地知道怎麼跟他討價還價，給他設定一個期程，今天大家可以了解這樣的一個願景，我們一直有持續在推動。","最後要提醒最前面講到健檢的事情，我覺得那個是政府的疏忽，核廢料並沒有馬上要移走，還不曉得要放多久，搞不好這輩子都一直放在那邊，所以給人家提供的健檢，我覺得也不能只是一次性，所以核廢料的健康風險，我也希望這個部分能夠納入醫院的功能，然後要設置長期健康監測的機制，這都是要有的。","另外最後要提醒的是，畢竟我們在醫療院所，我講醫療院所這樣比較好一點，在完成之前起碼要有三年的時間，在完成之前，這中間我們是不是可以做點什麼？有什麼樣的機制可以補強這中間的空白，還有彌補過去健檢的不足？這個部分你們是不是可以一併快速地……這個部分三年的配套機制，可能不是要讓你考慮很久。你是不是可以在兩個月內提出來？"],["邱部長泰源：這個沒有問題。"],["陳委員瑩：好，我們今天的要求大概是這樣，我想蘭嶼的居民，也包括我的族人，我們的雅美族人也在那邊，其實真的受了非常多的委屈。我今天必須要講，不管是過去的政黨誰很「夭壽」，但是今天是民進黨執政，我們不能只有說好聽的話，我們要有具體的行動去實現，去顧到他們的醫療平權，這個很重要的一個權利，我們大家一起努力，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：是，我們會努力，謝謝。"],["主席：本日會議詢答全部結束，委員涂權吉、陳菁徽所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員涂權吉書面質詢：","《病人自主權利法》自2019年1月上路至今已逾五年，截至2025年4月底，僅約10萬3千人完成預立醫療決定（AD）簽署，簽署率僅占全國20歲以上人口約0.45%。此數據反映，法案在推動與落實層面明顯不足，難以實現原本「尊重病人自主」的立法目的。","目前國內ACP（預立醫療照護諮商）費用普遍為自費制，價格落在每人每次2,000至3,700元間，依場域與專業人力不同而有落差。由於價格高昂且缺乏統一規範，對多數民眾而言構成實質負擔，亦嚴重影響參與意願。同時，目前可提供諮商的醫療場域仍以大醫院為主，長照機構與護理之家尚未全面納入，限制了制度的普及與落地。","更關鍵的是，即使簽署了預立醫療決定，臨床實施率仍偏低。立委王育敏的修正版本指出，現行法律未明確保障「已簽署者之意願優先性」，導致患者失去意識後，家屬主張往往凌駕於病人原先意願之上，使得醫療團隊進退兩難。對此，已有朝野委員提出修法版本，建議增訂「關係人不得妨礙醫療機構依病人預立醫療決定之作為」等條文，確保病人意願可被落實。衛福部應正視目前制度推行與執行落差問題，主動提出修正草案，並檢討諮商費用補助、場域擴增與執行機制設計，回應民眾對善終自主的期待。","另一方面，醫護人力流失問題已構成公共醫療隱憂。據台灣護師醫療產業工會統計，今年前4個月已有1,302名護理師離職，單是3月即達548人，創下近五年新高。更有護理師不待年終獎金即提前離職，反映制度性疲乏與工作負荷沉重。日前，總統賴清德已提出「不同工不同酬」政策，期以調整薪資結構改善人力流失問題。台北榮總與新光醫院已率先響應，分別調升住院醫師獎勵與輪三班護理師薪資。衛福部應全面掌握各醫院調薪與獎勵政策實施情況，主動規劃擴大夜班補貼，以及相關津貼，並研議將「醫護人員留任率」納入醫院評鑑指標，促使制度朝穩定與永續發展。"],["委員陳菁徽書面質詢：","一、我國自2019年施行《病人自主權利法》，旨在保障病人於失去意識前即能表達醫療意願。然而，截至目前簽署預立醫療決定書（Advance Directives, AD）者僅約10萬3千人，簽署率僅約0.45%。即便完成簽署，實際執行率仍偏低，主因在於現行法律未明文規範應優先依循病人本人的意願，導致病人失去意識時，家屬意見與病人可能產生分歧，甚至與醫療團隊產生衝突，嚴重影響制度落實。有鑑於此，請衛生福利部於兩個月內，就以下三項重點提出具體回應及修法建議：","1.放寬「預立醫療照護諮商（ACP）」之補助經費與執行場域；","2.明確規範關係人不得妨礙醫療機構依病人預立醫療決定行事；","3.彙整立法院各版本修法內容與精神，提出《病人自主權利法》修正草案。","二、我國急診醫療人力危機日益嚴峻。據統計，近四個月已有逾1,300名護理人員離職，其中2025年3月單月即高達548人，創下自2020年以來新高紀錄。近期又傳出台大醫院要求護理人員進行非本職業務（如捕鼠）以維護院內環境，顯示醫療現場資源配置與職務分工已出現結構性問題。","針對此情況，行政院長卓榮泰已於上週答應，將責成衛生福利部於一個月內盤點全國醫療院所，是否有護理人員從事非本職工作，並檢討相關制度與資源配置。","為落實此項承諾，請衛生福利部於一週內提出具體盤點方式，包括問卷設計內容、是否納入非主管之工會代表等意見，並同步說明目前盤點進度，確保如質如期完成行政院長交辦任務，回應第一線醫護人員的實際需求。"],["主席：現在作以下決議：第一、說明及詢答完畢。第二、委員質詢未及答復或請補充資料者，請相關機關兩週內以書面答復；委員另要求期限者，從其所定。第三、病人自主權利法部分條文修正草案等三案另擇期繼續審查。","本次會議到此結束，現在散會。","散會（13時27分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":422,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-9","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍","王育敏","楊瓊瓔","莊瑞雄","廖偉翔","林淑芬","黃秀芳","王正旭","陳培瑜","楊曜","陳瑩","涂權吉","陳菁徽"],"page_start":359,"meetingDate":["2025-05-01"],"gazette_id":"1144501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、委員王育敏等18人擬具「病人自主權利法部分條文修正草案」案；二、委員劉建國等\n16人擬具「病人自主權利法部分條文修正草案」案；三、委員邱志偉等19人擬具「病人自主權利\n法第八條、第九條及第十五條條文修正草案」案【僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1144501_00007"}}}