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00:00:58,517\n那其實在目前來講的話媒體其實也非常重視這個一加法的一個進度那我是想要因為剛剛很多都問部長那我想問一下代理主委那像現在這樣子行政院的這個公共發展小組306次會那這個進度如何能夠有願版能夠產生\n\n4\n00:01:00,147 --> 00:01:27,845\n公文報告在行政院有列定說各個部會的分工NCC當時被分配到的任務是做產業調查我們產業調查結果在111年有完成後來數位部召集了三輪八場會議我們也有請衛星工會跟電視學會去參與跟他們共同對話這一部分都有持續在關注\n\n5\n00:01:28,464 --> 00:01:39,681\n那所以說目前來講NCC也是對於就是這個媒體議價法也是樂觀其成嗎是我們是樂觀其成好那請教部長那行政院版預計什麼時候能夠提出\n\n6\n00:01:40,714 --> 00:02:09,911\n就是報委員我們現在就是說現在有三種方法那我們現在就是因為三華都不是很完整不是在現在情況都有他的問題所以我們還在評估但是我們當然希望盡快那我們先等這一次這個有關於這個我們這個關稅的問題過了以後我們再跟再看國際的發展再跟各個單位來討論當然也希望能夠有一個共識之後我們提出行政院版本\n\n7\n00:02:10,211 --> 00:02:36,475\n但希望是盡快但盡快可能就是就是今年下半期因為本席還是認為這麼重要的一個法案其實我相信不管是數位平台的使用業者包括媒體業者還甚至百姓或是千萬到千萬到著作權的許多層面的人那非常的期待這個能夠早日來看到行政院版那國民黨的版本也有提出那像今天也有提出的許多的版本\n\n8\n00:02:37,035 --> 00:02:59,063\n那我就不論到底部長您支持哪個版本但是我覺得比較急迫的是應該是大家期待看到院的版本那如果說以像目前來講我們可以看到在澳洲的這個部分啊我們來講一下澳洲的例子他那時候其實政府的態度是非常堅定的因為包括在GoogleforMeta他一度揚言退出嘛\n\n9\n00:02:59,543 --> 00:03:18,308\n但是那時候澳洲他其實還是踩緊立場那所以到時候這個法案不僅是有通過而且順利實施那因為回頭來講其實政府的老闆還是國民那如果說傷害到大家權利的話其實政府一定要硬起來所以我相信國民也是會支持\n\n10\n00:03:18,948 --> 00:03:40,038\n那所以說今天來講在看到澳洲的例子那他們不管是在這個已經實施上路那我在想今天來講我們在速發部這邊那不管是他有提到如果說以澳洲的話是比較市場力模式或是歐盟的話是諸多權模式的話那其實討論到現在已經非常久了\n\n11\n00:03:40,498 --> 00:04:05,151\n那如果說是因為關稅的部分來講也差不多就是六七月談判都會有一個結果但是我相信研擬的過程其實都應該遭有雛形那所以說是不是其實已經有草案的版本跟委員報告其實這個事情的轉折並不是因為最近的這個關關稅的談判的問題而是在去年的五月那去年五月因為\n\n12\n00:04:06,912 --> 00:04:28,525\n加拿大在通過那個OnlineNewsAct那個媒體溢價法之後那個Meta決定說退出這個市場他把那個在加拿大臉書上面所有關於新聞的連結通通移除了那他既然已經移除了所以那個媒體溢價法就不適用於他結果呢那個加拿大的媒體本來就已經收不到錢了結果因為他現在在\n\n13\n00:04:29,025 --> 00:04:52,407\n在加拿大的臉書上面完全不能轉貼任何的新聞所以加拿大的新聞媒體又失去了他們的流量所以變成說他們的狀況非常不好所以才會說那個經濟學人雜誌在去年的五月出了那個兩篇文章就講這個事情說加拿大政府推行媒體溢價法原本是要幫那個媒體結果反倒是傷害到了加拿大的媒體\n\n14\n00:04:53,708 --> 00:05:15,709\n這件事情事實上是整件事情的一個轉折在那之前的確我們在台灣我們的媒體我們很多公聽會我們好像都有一個那個共識我們要朝著那個媒體衣架法的方向去推行了可是因為發生這個事情所以我們現在會覺得說會擔心說這個媒體衣架法到底是不是有效那我們這個我覺得說我們還必須要商榷以上說明謝謝\n\n15\n00:05:17,751 --> 00:05:41,181\n本期還是在這邊還是再次說明當然說今天你舉的這個例子啊會讓大家是我就是會感到擔心要不要往前進行啊但是事實上的話以澳洲那時候其實他們也曾經面對這樣的風險那但是他們還是採警立場因為是站在人民的角度跟媒體的角度所以本期還是認為說今天推動的情況如何草案其實還是要有而且草案其實要提出來\n\n16\n00:05:41,821 --> 00:06:06,482\n那我相信這個是不斷的跟他們去做一個談判或協商的過程但是至少來講我覺得該有一個版本讓社會大眾都能夠清楚而且能夠來進行討論我相信這會是在不管是訴發部或是行政院會是最務實的讓民眾看得到的做法我們持續會跟委員溝通然後跟社會大眾做溝通然後找出一個最有效的方法來推動這樣的一個事情好OK謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1143\t7353\t謝謝召委那有請部長還有NCC代理主委黃部長陳主委你好你好\n14108\t41109\t部長主委好剛才其實在有關於這個議價法的部分媒體議價法的部分其實大家討論的非常多那本席還是想要接著請教一下其實在行政院在110年整理了大型數位平台及新聞媒體共同發展小組三年僅開六次會那跨部會協調但是到最後這個整體的進度來講其實幾乎都是停擺那三年六次會其實幾乎都從上一屆跨到這一屆\n41849\t58517\t那其實在目前來講的話媒體其實也非常重視這個一加法的一個進度那我是想要 因為剛剛很多都問部長那我想問一下代理主委那像現在這樣子行政院的這個公共發展小組306次會那這個進度如何能夠有願版能夠產生\n60147\t87845\t公文報告在行政院有列定說各個部會的分工NCC當時被分配到的任務是做產業調查我們產業調查結果在111年有完成後來數位部召集了三輪八場會議我們也有請衛星工會跟電視學會去參與跟他們共同對話這一部分都有持續在關注\n88464\t99681\t那所以說目前來講NCC也是對於就是這個媒體議價法也是樂觀其成嗎是 我們是樂觀其成好 那請教部長那行政院版預計什麼時候能夠提出\n100714\t129911\t就是報委員我們現在就是說現在有三種方法那我們現在就是因為三華都不是很完整不是在現在情況都有他的問題所以我們還在評估但是我們當然希望盡快那我們先等這一次這個有關於這個我們這個關稅的問題過了以後我們再跟再看國際的發展再跟各個單位來討論當然也希望能夠有一個共識之後我們提出行政院版本\n130211\t156475\t但希望是盡快 但盡快可能就是就是今年下半期因為本席還是認為這麼重要的一個法案其實我相信不管是數位平台的使用業者包括媒體業者還甚至百姓或是千萬到千萬到著作權的許多層面的人那非常的期待這個能夠早日來看到行政院版那國民黨的版本也有提出那像今天也有提出的許多的版本\n157035\t179063\t那我就不論到底部長您支持哪個版本但是我覺得比較急迫的是應該是大家期待看到院的版本那如果說以像目前來講我們可以看到在澳洲的這個部分啊我們來講一下澳洲的例子他那時候其實政府的態度是非常堅定的因為包括在Google for Meta他一度揚言退出嘛\n179543\t198308\t但是那時候澳洲他其實還是踩緊立場那所以到時候這個法案不僅是有通過而且順利實施那因為回頭來講其實政府的老闆還是國民那如果說傷害到大家權利的話其實政府一定要硬起來所以我相信國民也是會支持\n198948\t220038\t那所以說今天來講在看到澳洲的例子那他們不管是在這個已經實施上路那我在想今天來講我們在速發部這邊那不管是他有提到如果說以澳洲的話是比較市場力模式或是歐盟的話是諸多權模式的話那其實討論到現在已經非常久了\n220498\t245151\t那如果說是因為關稅的部分來講也差不多就是六七月談判都會有一個結果但是我相信研擬的過程其實都應該遭有雛形那所以說是不是其實已經有草案的版本跟委員報告其實這個事情的轉折並不是因為最近的這個關關稅的談判的問題而是在去年的五月那去年五月因為\n246912\t268525\t加拿大在通過那個Online News Act那個媒體溢價法之後那個Meta決定說退出這個市場他把那個在加拿大臉書上面所有關於新聞的連結通通移除了那他既然已經移除了所以那個媒體溢價法就不適用於他結果呢那個加拿大的媒體本來就已經收不到錢了結果因為他現在在\n269025\t292407\t在加拿大的臉書上面完全不能轉貼任何的新聞所以加拿大的新聞媒體又失去了他們的流量所以變成說他們的狀況非常不好所以才會說那個經濟學人雜誌在去年的五月出了那個兩篇文章就講這個事情說加拿大政府推行媒體溢價法原本是要幫那個媒體結果反倒是傷害到了加拿大的媒體\n293708\t315709\t這件事情事實上是整件事情的一個轉折在那之前的確我們在台灣我們的媒體我們很多公聽會我們好像都有一個那個共識我們要朝著那個媒體衣架法的方向去推行了可是因為發生這個事情所以我們現在會覺得說會擔心說這個媒體衣架法到底是不是有效那我們這個我覺得說我們還必須要商榷以上說明 謝謝\n317751\t341181\t本期還是在這邊還是再次說明當然說今天你舉的這個例子啊會讓大家是我就是會感到擔心要不要往前進行啊但是事實上的話以澳洲那時候其實他們也曾經面對這樣的風險那但是他們還是採警立場因為是站在人民的角度跟媒體的角度所以本期還是認為說今天推動的情況如何草案其實還是要有而且草案其實要提出來\n341821\t366482\t那我相信這個是不斷的跟他們去做一個談判或協商的過程但是至少來講我覺得該有一個版本讓社會大眾都能夠清楚而且能夠來進行討論我相信這會是在不管是訴發部或是行政院會是最務實的讓民眾看得到的做法我們持續會跟委員溝通然後跟社會大眾做溝通然後找出一個最有效的方法來推動這樣的一個事情好 OK 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝召委那有請部長還有NCC代理主委黃部長陳主委你好你好\n部長主委好剛才其實在有關於這個議價法的部分媒體議價法的部分其實大家討論的非常多那本席還是想要接著請教一下其實在行政院在110年整理了大型數位平台及新聞媒體共同發展小組三年僅開六次會那跨部會協調但是到最後這個整體的進度來講其實幾乎都是停擺那三年六次會其實幾乎都從上一屆跨到這一屆\n那其實在目前來講的話媒體其實也非常重視這個一加法的一個進度那我是想要 因為剛剛很多都問部長那我想問一下代理主委那像現在這樣子行政院的這個公共發展小組306次會那這個進度如何能夠有願版能夠產生\n公文報告在行政院有列定說各個部會的分工NCC當時被分配到的任務是做產業調查我們產業調查結果在111年有完成後來數位部召集了三輪八場會議我們也有請衛星工會跟電視學會去參與跟他們共同對話這一部分都有持續在關注\n那所以說目前來講NCC也是對於就是這個媒體議價法也是樂觀其成嗎是 我們是樂觀其成好 那請教部長那行政院版預計什麼時候能夠提出\n就是報委員我們現在就是說現在有三種方法那我們現在就是因為三華都不是很完整不是在現在情況都有他的問題所以我們還在評估但是我們當然希望盡快那我們先等這一次這個有關於這個我們這個關稅的問題過了以後我們再跟再看國際的發展再跟各個單位來討論當然也希望能夠有一個共識之後我們提出行政院版本\n但希望是盡快 但盡快可能就是就是今年下半期因為本席還是認為這麼重要的一個法案其實我相信不管是數位平台的使用業者包括媒體業者還甚至百姓或是千萬到千萬到著作權的許多層面的人那非常的期待這個能夠早日來看到行政院版那國民黨的版本也有提出那像今天也有提出的許多的版本\n那我就不論到底部長您支持哪個版本但是我覺得比較急迫的是應該是大家期待看到院的版本那如果說以像目前來講我們可以看到在澳洲的這個部分啊我們來講一下澳洲的例子他那時候其實政府的態度是非常堅定的因為包括在Google for Meta他一度揚言退出嘛\n但是那時候澳洲他其實還是踩緊立場那所以到時候這個法案不僅是有通過而且順利實施那因為回頭來講其實政府的老闆還是國民那如果說傷害到大家權利的話其實政府一定要硬起來所以我相信國民也是會支持\n那所以說今天來講在看到澳洲的例子那他們不管是在這個已經實施上路那我在想今天來講我們在速發部這邊那不管是他有提到如果說以澳洲的話是比較市場力模式或是歐盟的話是諸多權模式的話那其實討論到現在已經非常久了\n那如果說是因為關稅的部分來講也差不多就是六七月談判都會有一個結果但是我相信研擬的過程其實都應該遭有雛形那所以說是不是其實已經有草案的版本跟委員報告其實這個事情的轉折並不是因為最近的這個關關稅的談判的問題而是在去年的五月那去年五月因為\n加拿大在通過那個Online News Act那個媒體溢價法之後那個Meta決定說退出這個市場他把那個在加拿大臉書上面所有關於新聞的連結通通移除了那他既然已經移除了所以那個媒體溢價法就不適用於他結果呢那個加拿大的媒體本來就已經收不到錢了結果因為他現在在\n在加拿大的臉書上面完全不能轉貼任何的新聞所以加拿大的新聞媒體又失去了他們的流量所以變成說他們的狀況非常不好所以才會說那個經濟學人雜誌在去年的五月出了那個兩篇文章就講這個事情說加拿大政府推行媒體溢價法原本是要幫那個媒體結果反倒是傷害到了加拿大的媒體\n這件事情事實上是整件事情的一個轉折在那之前的確我們在台灣我們的媒體我們很多公聽會我們好像都有一個那個共識我們要朝著那個媒體衣架法的方向去推行了可是因為發生這個事情所以我們現在會覺得說會擔心說這個媒體衣架法到底是不是有效那我們這個我覺得說我們還必須要商榷以上說明 謝謝\n本期還是在這邊還是再次說明當然說今天你舉的這個例子啊會讓大家是我就是會感到擔心要不要往前進行啊但是事實上的話以澳洲那時候其實他們也曾經面對這樣的風險那但是他們還是採警立場因為是站在人民的角度跟媒體的角度所以本期還是認為說今天推動的情況如何草案其實還是要有而且草案其實要提出來\n那我相信這個是不斷的跟他們去做一個談判或協商的過程但是至少來講我覺得該有一個版本讓社會大眾都能夠清楚而且能夠來進行討論我相信這會是在不管是訴發部或是行政院會是最務實的讓民眾看得到的做法我們持續會跟委員溝通然後跟社會大眾做溝通然後找出一個最有效的方法來推動這樣的一個事情好 OK 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.143 --> 00:07.353\n謝謝召委那有請部長還有NCC代理主委黃部長陳主委你好你好\n\n00:14.108 --> 00:41.109\n部長主委好剛才其實在有關於這個議價法的部分媒體議價法的部分其實大家討論的非常多那本席還是想要接著請教一下其實在行政院在110年整理了大型數位平台及新聞媒體共同發展小組三年僅開六次會那跨部會協調但是到最後這個整體的進度來講其實幾乎都是停擺那三年六次會其實幾乎都從上一屆跨到這一屆\n\n00:41.849 --> 00:58.517\n那其實在目前來講的話媒體其實也非常重視這個一加法的一個進度那我是想要因為剛剛很多都問部長那我想問一下代理主委那像現在這樣子行政院的這個公共發展小組306次會那這個進度如何能夠有願版能夠產生\n\n01:00.147 --> 01:27.845\n公文報告在行政院有列定說各個部會的分工NCC當時被分配到的任務是做產業調查我們產業調查結果在111年有完成後來數位部召集了三輪八場會議我們也有請衛星工會跟電視學會去參與跟他們共同對話這一部分都有持續在關注\n\n01:28.464 --> 01:39.681\n那所以說目前來講NCC也是對於就是這個媒體議價法也是樂觀其成嗎是我們是樂觀其成好那請教部長那行政院版預計什麼時候能夠提出\n\n01:40.714 --> 02:09.911\n就是報委員我們現在就是說現在有三種方法那我們現在就是因為三華都不是很完整不是在現在情況都有他的問題所以我們還在評估但是我們當然希望盡快那我們先等這一次這個有關於這個我們這個關稅的問題過了以後我們再跟再看國際的發展再跟各個單位來討論當然也希望能夠有一個共識之後我們提出行政院版本\n\n02:10.211 --> 02:36.475\n但希望是盡快但盡快可能就是就是今年下半期因為本席還是認為這麼重要的一個法案其實我相信不管是數位平台的使用業者包括媒體業者還甚至百姓或是千萬到千萬到著作權的許多層面的人那非常的期待這個能夠早日來看到行政院版那國民黨的版本也有提出那像今天也有提出的許多的版本\n\n02:37.035 --> 02:59.063\n那我就不論到底部長您支持哪個版本但是我覺得比較急迫的是應該是大家期待看到院的版本那如果說以像目前來講我們可以看到在澳洲的這個部分啊我們來講一下澳洲的例子他那時候其實政府的態度是非常堅定的因為包括在GoogleforMeta他一度揚言退出嘛\n\n02:59.543 --> 03:18.308\n但是那時候澳洲他其實還是踩緊立場那所以到時候這個法案不僅是有通過而且順利實施那因為回頭來講其實政府的老闆還是國民那如果說傷害到大家權利的話其實政府一定要硬起來所以我相信國民也是會支持\n\n03:18.948 --> 03:40.038\n那所以說今天來講在看到澳洲的例子那他們不管是在這個已經實施上路那我在想今天來講我們在速發部這邊那不管是他有提到如果說以澳洲的話是比較市場力模式或是歐盟的話是諸多權模式的話那其實討論到現在已經非常久了\n\n03:40.498 --> 04:05.151\n那如果說是因為關稅的部分來講也差不多就是六七月談判都會有一個結果但是我相信研擬的過程其實都應該遭有雛形那所以說是不是其實已經有草案的版本跟委員報告其實這個事情的轉折並不是因為最近的這個關關稅的談判的問題而是在去年的五月那去年五月因為\n\n04:06.912 --> 04:28.525\n加拿大在通過那個OnlineNewsAct那個媒體溢價法之後那個Meta決定說退出這個市場他把那個在加拿大臉書上面所有關於新聞的連結通通移除了那他既然已經移除了所以那個媒體溢價法就不適用於他結果呢那個加拿大的媒體本來就已經收不到錢了結果因為他現在在\n\n04:29.025 --> 04:52.407\n在加拿大的臉書上面完全不能轉貼任何的新聞所以加拿大的新聞媒體又失去了他們的流量所以變成說他們的狀況非常不好所以才會說那個經濟學人雜誌在去年的五月出了那個兩篇文章就講這個事情說加拿大政府推行媒體溢價法原本是要幫那個媒體結果反倒是傷害到了加拿大的媒體\n\n04:53.708 --> 05:15.709\n這件事情事實上是整件事情的一個轉折在那之前的確我們在台灣我們的媒體我們很多公聽會我們好像都有一個那個共識我們要朝著那個媒體衣架法的方向去推行了可是因為發生這個事情所以我們現在會覺得說會擔心說這個媒體衣架法到底是不是有效那我們這個我覺得說我們還必須要商榷以上說明謝謝\n\n05:17.751 --> 05:41.181\n本期還是在這邊還是再次說明當然說今天你舉的這個例子啊會讓大家是我就是會感到擔心要不要往前進行啊但是事實上的話以澳洲那時候其實他們也曾經面對這樣的風險那但是他們還是採警立場因為是站在人民的角度跟媒體的角度所以本期還是認為說今天推動的情況如何草案其實還是要有而且草案其實要提出來\n\n05:41.821 --> 06:06.482\n那我相信這個是不斷的跟他們去做一個談判或協商的過程但是至少來講我覺得該有一個版本讓社會大眾都能夠清楚而且能夠來進行討論我相信這會是在不管是訴發部或是行政院會是最務實的讓民眾看得到的做法我們持續會跟委員溝通然後跟社會大眾做溝通然後找出一個最有效的方法來推動這樣的一個事情好OK謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.143,"end":7.353,"text":"謝謝召委那有請部長還有NCC代理主委黃部長陳主委你好你好"},{"start":14.108,"end":41.109,"text":"部長主委好剛才其實在有關於這個議價法的部分媒體議價法的部分其實大家討論的非常多那本席還是想要接著請教一下其實在行政院在110年整理了大型數位平台及新聞媒體共同發展小組三年僅開六次會那跨部會協調但是到最後這個整體的進度來講其實幾乎都是停擺那三年六次會其實幾乎都從上一屆跨到這一屆"},{"start":41.849,"end":58.517,"text":"那其實在目前來講的話媒體其實也非常重視這個一加法的一個進度那我是想要 因為剛剛很多都問部長那我想問一下代理主委那像現在這樣子行政院的這個公共發展小組306次會那這個進度如何能夠有願版能夠產生"},{"start":60.147,"end":87.845,"text":"公文報告在行政院有列定說各個部會的分工NCC當時被分配到的任務是做產業調查我們產業調查結果在111年有完成後來數位部召集了三輪八場會議我們也有請衛星工會跟電視學會去參與跟他們共同對話這一部分都有持續在關注"},{"start":88.464,"end":99.681,"text":"那所以說目前來講NCC也是對於就是這個媒體議價法也是樂觀其成嗎是 我們是樂觀其成好 那請教部長那行政院版預計什麼時候能夠提出"},{"start":100.714,"end":129.911,"text":"就是報委員我們現在就是說現在有三種方法那我們現在就是因為三華都不是很完整不是在現在情況都有他的問題所以我們還在評估但是我們當然希望盡快那我們先等這一次這個有關於這個我們這個關稅的問題過了以後我們再跟再看國際的發展再跟各個單位來討論當然也希望能夠有一個共識之後我們提出行政院版本"},{"start":130.211,"end":156.475,"text":"但希望是盡快 但盡快可能就是就是今年下半期因為本席還是認為這麼重要的一個法案其實我相信不管是數位平台的使用業者包括媒體業者還甚至百姓或是千萬到千萬到著作權的許多層面的人那非常的期待這個能夠早日來看到行政院版那國民黨的版本也有提出那像今天也有提出的許多的版本"},{"start":157.035,"end":179.063,"text":"那我就不論到底部長您支持哪個版本但是我覺得比較急迫的是應該是大家期待看到院的版本那如果說以像目前來講我們可以看到在澳洲的這個部分啊我們來講一下澳洲的例子他那時候其實政府的態度是非常堅定的因為包括在Google for Meta他一度揚言退出嘛"},{"start":179.543,"end":198.308,"text":"但是那時候澳洲他其實還是踩緊立場那所以到時候這個法案不僅是有通過而且順利實施那因為回頭來講其實政府的老闆還是國民那如果說傷害到大家權利的話其實政府一定要硬起來所以我相信國民也是會支持"},{"start":198.948,"end":220.038,"text":"那所以說今天來講在看到澳洲的例子那他們不管是在這個已經實施上路那我在想今天來講我們在速發部這邊那不管是他有提到如果說以澳洲的話是比較市場力模式或是歐盟的話是諸多權模式的話那其實討論到現在已經非常久了"},{"start":220.498,"end":245.151,"text":"那如果說是因為關稅的部分來講也差不多就是六七月談判都會有一個結果但是我相信研擬的過程其實都應該遭有雛形那所以說是不是其實已經有草案的版本跟委員報告其實這個事情的轉折並不是因為最近的這個關關稅的談判的問題而是在去年的五月那去年五月因為"},{"start":246.912,"end":268.525,"text":"加拿大在通過那個Online News Act那個媒體溢價法之後那個Meta決定說退出這個市場他把那個在加拿大臉書上面所有關於新聞的連結通通移除了那他既然已經移除了所以那個媒體溢價法就不適用於他結果呢那個加拿大的媒體本來就已經收不到錢了結果因為他現在在"},{"start":269.025,"end":292.407,"text":"在加拿大的臉書上面完全不能轉貼任何的新聞所以加拿大的新聞媒體又失去了他們的流量所以變成說他們的狀況非常不好所以才會說那個經濟學人雜誌在去年的五月出了那個兩篇文章就講這個事情說加拿大政府推行媒體溢價法原本是要幫那個媒體結果反倒是傷害到了加拿大的媒體"},{"start":293.708,"end":315.709,"text":"這件事情事實上是整件事情的一個轉折在那之前的確我們在台灣我們的媒體我們很多公聽會我們好像都有一個那個共識我們要朝著那個媒體衣架法的方向去推行了可是因為發生這個事情所以我們現在會覺得說會擔心說這個媒體衣架法到底是不是有效那我們這個我覺得說我們還必須要商榷以上說明 謝謝"},{"start":317.751,"end":341.181,"text":"本期還是在這邊還是再次說明當然說今天你舉的這個例子啊會讓大家是我就是會感到擔心要不要往前進行啊但是事實上的話以澳洲那時候其實他們也曾經面對這樣的風險那但是他們還是採警立場因為是站在人民的角度跟媒體的角度所以本期還是認為說今天推動的情況如何草案其實還是要有而且草案其實要提出來"},{"start":341.821,"end":366.482,"text":"那我相信這個是不斷的跟他們去做一個談判或協商的過程但是至少來講我覺得該有一個版本讓社會大眾都能夠清楚而且能夠來進行討論我相信這會是在不管是訴發部或是行政院會是最務實的讓民眾看得到的做法我們持續會跟委員溝通然後跟社會大眾做溝通然後找出一個最有效的方法來推動這樣的一個事情好 OK 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1133,"blocks":[["游委員顥：（13時24分）謝謝召委，有請部長還有NCC代理主委。"],["主席：好，黃部長、陳主委。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：委員好。"],["游委員顥：部長、主委好。有關於媒體議價法的部分，其實剛才大家討論的非常多，本席想要接著請教一下，行政院在110年成立的大型數位平臺及新聞媒體共榮發展小組，3年僅開6次會，跨部會協調，但是到最後整體的進度幾乎都是停擺，3年6次會其實幾乎是從上一屆跨到這一屆。目前來講，媒體其實也非常重視議價法的進度，因為剛剛很多委員都是問部長，我想問一下代理主委，行政院的這個共榮發展小組3年開6次會，這樣的進度如何能夠有院版產生？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：跟委員報告，因為行政院有律定各個部會的分工，NCC當時被分配到的任務是做產業調查，我們產業調查的結果在111年完成，後來數位部召集的3輪8場會議，我們也有就我們的部分，請衛星公會跟電視學會去參與，也跟他們共同對話，這部分都有持續在關注。"],["游委員顥：所以目前來講，NCC對於媒體議價法也是樂觀其成嘛。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是，我們是樂觀其成。"],["游委員顥：好。請教部長，行政院版預計什麼時候能夠提出？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，現在有三種方法，因為三法都不是很完整，在現在的情況，都有它的問題，所以我們還在評估，但我們當然希望儘快，我們先等這一次有關於關稅的問題過了以後，再看國際的發展，再跟各個單位來討論，當然也希望能夠在有共識之後提出行政院版本，希望是儘快，但儘快可能就是今年下半年。"],["游委員顥：因為本席還是認為這麼重要的一個法案，我相信不管是數位平臺的使用業者，包括媒體業者，甚至百姓，或是牽扯到相關著作權的許多層面的人，非常期待能夠早日看到行政院版。國民黨的版本也有提出，像今天有提出許多版本，我就不論到底部長您支持哪個版本，但我覺得比較急迫的應該是大家期待看到院的版本。","以目前來講，我們看到澳洲的部分，我們來講一下澳洲的例子，其實那時候政府的態度是非常堅定的，Google或Meta一度揚言要退出，但是澳洲還是採行立場，所以這個法案不僅通過，而且順利實施。回頭來講，其實政府的老闆還是國民，如果傷害到大家的權利，政府一定要硬起來，我相信國民也是會支持。","所以今天我們看到澳洲的例子，他們已經實施上路，我在想我們數發部這邊，澳洲的話是市場力模式，歐盟的話是著作權模式，其實我們討論到現在已經非常久了，如果是因為關稅，差不多6、7月就會有談判結果，但是我相信研擬的過程其實都應該早有雛形，所以你們是不是已經有草案版本了？"],["林次長宜敬：跟委員報告，其實這個事情的轉折並不是因為最近的關稅談判的問題，而是在去年的5月，因為加拿大在通過Online News Act也就是媒體議價法之後，Meta決定退出這個市場，它把在加拿大臉書上面所有關於新聞的連結通通移除了，既然已經移除了，所以媒體議價法就不適用於它，而加拿大的媒體本來就已經收不到錢了，結果因為現在它在加拿大的臉書上面完全不能轉貼任何新聞，所以加拿大的新聞媒體又失去了他們的流量，變成他們的狀況非常不好，因此經濟學人雜誌在去年的5月出了兩篇文章，就是提到這件事情，說加拿大政府推行媒體議價法，原本是要幫媒體，結果反倒是傷害到了加拿大的媒體。這件事情事實上是整件事情的轉折，在那之前，的確在臺灣，我們的媒體、我們很多公聽會好像都有一個共識，也就是要朝著媒體議價法的方向去推行，可是因為發生這件事情，所以我們現在會擔心這個媒體議價法到底是不是有效，我們覺得這部分還必須要商榷。以上說明，謝謝。"],["游委員顥：次長，本席在這邊還是再次說明，今天你舉的這個例子會讓大家感到擔心，覺得是否要往前進行，但事實上，澳洲那時候也曾經面對這樣的風險，但他們還是採行立場，因為是站在人民跟媒體的角度，所以本席還是認為無論今天推動的情況如何，草案還是要有，而且草案也要提出來，我相信過程中是需要不斷地跟他們去做談判或協商，但我覺得至少應該有一個版本讓社會大眾都能夠清楚，而且能夠來進行討論，我相信這會是數發部或是行政院最務實且能夠讓民眾看得到的做法。"],["黃部長彥男：我們會持續跟委員溝通、跟社會大眾做溝通，然後找出一個最有效的方法來推動這樣的事情。"],["游委員顥：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝游顥委員。","現在請林楚茵委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":148,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-23,22-1","speakers":["林國成","王鴻薇","張啓楷","洪孟楷","林宜瑾","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","葛如鈞","范雲","林俊憲","蔡其昌","許智傑","郭昱晴","徐富癸","李昆澤","何欣純","陳素月","邱若華","廖先翔","魯明哲","陳培瑜","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","羅廷瑋","吳沛憶","葉元之","游顥","林楚茵","蔡易餘","張雅琳","柯志恩","萬美玲","黃健豪","劉書彬","翁曉玲"],"page_start":61,"meetingDate":["2025-05-01"],"gazette_id":"1144501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員林楚茵等17人擬具「新聞媒體與數位平台議價法草案」案；二、審查委員羅廷瑋等\n16人擬具「新聞媒體與數位平臺強制議價法草案」案；三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「新聞媒\n體與數位平臺強制議價法草案」案；四、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「新聞媒體與數位科技平台公\n平發展法草案」案；五、審查委員林宜瑾等21 人擬具「數位新聞發展與民主韌性法草案」案；\n六、審查委員范雲等21人擬具「數位新聞發展與民主韌性法草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1144501_00002"}}}