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{\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 351.025, \"end\": 351.385, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 351.385, \"end\": 351.526, \"score\": 0.588}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 351.526, \"end\": 351.626, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"潮\", \"start\": 351.626, \"end\": 351.646, \"score\": 0.069}, {\"word\": \"流\", \"start\": 351.646, \"end\": 351.766, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 351.766, \"end\": 351.826, \"score\": 0.348}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 351.826, \"end\": 351.846, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 351.846, \"end\": 351.866, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,652 --> 00:00:04,127\n謝謝主席主席有請數位部部長好數位部黃部長\n\n2\n00:00:08,390 --> 00:00:33,919\n林次長如果有需要補充也可以一起上台沒問題林次長部長好我想本席是在上一屆2020年擔任立委之後就提出了有關於媒體一家法我想當時的緣由您在報告上面也寫得非常清楚就是2021年澳洲再加上2023年開始就是有關於大型的平台在使用新聞上面的這個所謂使用者付費的部分但是我們知道時間來到2025年\n\n3\n00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:51,659\n很多的狀況都已經跟我們現實當時所提出來的法案已經完全不一樣包括現在AI成為這個網路世界尤其是AI生成當中我相信它已經所延伸的問題恐怕更甚於媒體衣架法那麼\n\n4\n00:00:52,720 --> 00:01:00,150\n我想要請問的就是其實隨著時間的演進包括今天主席我相信他們也都是非常關注今天的題目那麼到底我們跟實際的媒體業者進行了哪些溝通因為就像報告所提出來的\n\n5\n00:01:07,899 --> 00:01:33,184\n就是現在不論是澳洲或者是其他國家因為在使用媒體溢價法之後也被這個所謂大型的平台不論是Meta或者是Google進行了所謂的報復也就是說他們乾脆直接就是下價或者是不導流那我相信媒體跟溢所謂平台之間是一種共生共好的關係那是最好的\n\n6\n00:01:33,664 --> 00:01:58,721\n那麼在台灣的話台灣的媒體目前對於類似媒體議價法或者是真的有一個所謂的平台來協助議價他們最新的想法跟看法又是什麼呢當然我相信現場也有文化部也有所謂的這個國科會等等但是現在主責是數位部的話我就來請問一下到底在近期內跟媒體之間的溝通有多少\n\n7\n00:02:03,744 --> 00:02:27,031\n那麼媒體他們認為現在需要的真的還是溢價法嗎還是更先進的就是剛剛有我們本院的委員所提到的著作連結權相關的法案又或者是說他必須併到另外更廣更大的AI相關的基本法等等因為我要因為我時間有限所以我最後再請\n\n8\n00:02:28,291 --> 00:02:48,740\n科技部來回應就是目前其實最有可數位部來回應就是其實目前對媒體來說他們所面對的一個實質的狀況就是當我們使用AI你把幾篇新聞輸入進去之後只要30秒他生成另外一篇根本\n\n9\n00:02:49,640 --> 00:03:07,689\n完全不一樣的文章平台根本完全已經不需要去透過連結link的方式去使用這些媒體言下之意我們當然原本利益良善的是希望創建一個平台協助業者跟\n\n10\n00:03:08,769 --> 00:03:30,265\n社群平台來做溝通但現在產生第三者也就是ChatGP之類的AI的時候那這變成是一個三方的問題請問數位部有考量到嗎那麼有更先進的法規或法律在做研擬嗎否則等到又一樣過了五年之後我們的立法又落後了\n\n11\n00:03:31,764 --> 00:03:45,811\n那個委員分析的很好確實確實新的技術的出現改變我們當初對媒體溢價法的看法那我從上任之後有公協會來找我也有學者各方面來找我就對這個議題表示不同看法\n\n12\n00:03:46,431 --> 00:04:03,776\n那當然就是說在討論過程中當然大部分人當初還是主張認為還是用媒體強迫溢價法那我們也朝著後面去做很多的研究那也去觀察國際的發展的趨勢才會有今天的這樣的一個態度就是說我們發現媒體強迫溢價法在有些國家實施之後\n\n13\n00:04:04,796 --> 00:04:20,831\n並沒有達到當初想要實行的效果那當然這個著作臨接權是一種因為因為應付AI的產生是一個方法但是那牽涉到更複雜的這個所謂修法跟那個所以我們當然是希望能夠整合像剛剛講著作臨接權就著作權法的\n\n14\n00:04:21,631 --> 00:04:39,091\n的那個修法然後再加上也許一些基金共融但這個還需要再討論但是這個還需要跟大院還有跟一般的所謂的民眾來這個這個業者來溝通當然也要跟這個平台業者來溝通希望找出一個大家能夠同意然後能夠共融的一個方案讓這個事情能夠所謂新聞有價的事情能夠落實\n\n15\n00:04:42,635 --> 00:05:07,697\n這個是我們現在的一個在在在評估但我們但是希望盡快啦所以但因為現在是稍微受到這個剛講這個關稅的影響我們覺得這個時間點去提出任何東西可能會影響到關稅的談判但是只要這個結束以後我們會再看再跟再看用什麼樣方式來提出最有效對我們新聞媒體最有效方法來解決我們現在所謂新聞有價的這個問題\n\n16\n00:05:08,769 --> 00:05:31,318\n好所以本席要提醒的就是我們立的法絕對要走在前面如果說現在媒體一家法我實話實說我自己媒體出來的它現在已經落後了所以在這樣的概念裡面要把新的狀況也要放進去這樣才不要說立一個法擺在那裡大家浪費了時間但是其實它可能法規根本用不到\n\n17\n00:05:31,818 --> 00:05:51,866\n那這個才是沒有辦法解決問題而不符合現在實際所應應的狀況但是本席還是同意就是必須要在一定的時間之內而且必須要回應媒體的需求然後也要能夠結合現在我們整體的不論是網路又或者是整個時代的潮流好謝謝委員建議謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n652\t4127\t謝謝主席主席有請數位部部長好 數位部黃部長\n8390\t33919\t林次長如果有需要補充也可以一起上台沒問題林次長部長好我想本席是在上一屆2020年擔任立委之後就提出了有關於媒體一家法我想當時的緣由您在報告上面也寫得非常清楚就是2021年澳洲再加上2023年開始就是有關於大型的平台在使用新聞上面的這個所謂使用者付費的部分但是我們知道時間來到2025年\n35600\t51659\t很多的狀況都已經跟我們現實當時所提出來的法案已經完全不一樣包括現在AI成為這個網路世界尤其是AI生成當中我相信它已經所延伸的問題恐怕更甚於媒體衣架法那麼\n52720\t60150\t我想要請問的就是其實隨著時間的演進包括今天主席我相信他們也都是非常關注今天的題目那麼到底我們跟實際的媒體業者進行了哪些溝通因為就像報告所提出來的\n67899\t93184\t就是現在不論是澳洲或者是其他國家因為在使用媒體溢價法之後也被這個所謂大型的平台不論是Meta或者是Google進行了所謂的報復也就是說他們乾脆直接就是下價或者是不導流那我相信媒體跟溢所謂平台之間是一種共生共好的關係那是最好的\n93664\t118721\t那麼在台灣的話台灣的媒體目前對於類似媒體議價法或者是真的有一個所謂的平台來協助議價他們最新的想法跟看法又是什麼呢當然我相信現場也有文化部也有所謂的這個國科會等等但是現在主責是數位部的話我就來請問一下到底在近期內跟媒體之間的溝通有多少\n123744\t147031\t那麼媒體他們認為現在需要的真的還是溢價法嗎還是更先進的就是剛剛有我們本院的委員所提到的著作連結權相關的法案又或者是說他必須併到另外更廣更大的AI相關的基本法等等因為我要因為我時間有限所以我最後再請\n148291\t168740\t科技部來回應就是目前其實最有可數位部來回應就是其實目前對媒體來說他們所面對的一個實質的狀況就是當我們使用AI你把幾篇新聞輸入進去之後只要30秒他生成另外一篇根本\n169640\t187689\t完全不一樣的文章平台根本完全已經不需要去透過連結link的方式去使用這些媒體言下之意我們當然原本利益良善的是希望創建一個平台協助業者跟\n188769\t210265\t社群平台來做溝通但現在產生第三者也就是ChatGP之類的AI的時候那這變成是一個三方的問題請問數位部有考量到嗎那麼有更先進的法規或法律在做研擬嗎否則等到又一樣過了五年之後我們的立法又落後了\n211764\t225811\t那個委員分析的很好確實確實新的技術的出現改變我們當初對媒體溢價法的看法那我從上任之後有公協會來找我也有學者各方面來找我就對這個議題表示不同看法\n226431\t243776\t那當然就是說在討論過程中當然大部分人當初還是主張認為還是用媒體強迫溢價法那我們也朝著後面去做很多的研究那也去觀察國際的發展的趨勢才會有今天的這樣的一個態度就是說我們發現媒體強迫溢價法在有些國家實施之後\n244796\t260831\t並沒有達到當初想要實行的效果那當然這個著作臨接權是一種因為因為應付AI的產生是一個方法但是那牽涉到更複雜的這個所謂修法跟那個所以我們當然是希望能夠整合像剛剛講著作臨接權就著作權法的\n261631\t279091\t的那個修法然後再加上也許一些基金共融但這個還需要再討論但是這個還需要跟大院還有跟一般的所謂的民眾來這個這個業者來溝通當然也要跟這個平台業者來溝通希望找出一個大家能夠同意然後能夠共融的一個方案讓這個事情能夠所謂新聞有價的事情能夠落實\n282635\t307697\t這個是我們現在的一個在在在評估但我們但是希望盡快啦所以但因為現在是稍微受到這個剛講這個關稅的影響我們覺得這個時間點去提出任何東西可能會影響到關稅的談判但是只要這個結束以後我們會再看再跟再看用什麼樣方式來提出最有效對我們新聞媒體最有效方法來解決我們現在所謂新聞有價的這個問題\n308769\t331318\t好 所以本席要提醒的就是我們立的法絕對要走在前面如果說現在媒體一家法我實話實說我自己媒體出來的它現在已經落後了所以在這樣的概念裡面要把新的狀況也要放進去這樣才不要說立一個法擺在那裡大家浪費了時間但是其實它可能法規根本用不到\n331818\t351866\t那這個才是沒有辦法解決問題而不符合現在實際所應應的狀況但是本席還是同意就是必須要在一定的時間之內而且必須要回應媒體的需求然後也要能夠結合現在我們整體的不論是網路又或者是整個時代的潮流好 謝謝委員建議 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席主席有請數位部部長好 數位部黃部長\n林次長如果有需要補充也可以一起上台沒問題林次長部長好我想本席是在上一屆2020年擔任立委之後就提出了有關於媒體一家法我想當時的緣由您在報告上面也寫得非常清楚就是2021年澳洲再加上2023年開始就是有關於大型的平台在使用新聞上面的這個所謂使用者付費的部分但是我們知道時間來到2025年\n很多的狀況都已經跟我們現實當時所提出來的法案已經完全不一樣包括現在AI成為這個網路世界尤其是AI生成當中我相信它已經所延伸的問題恐怕更甚於媒體衣架法那麼\n我想要請問的就是其實隨著時間的演進包括今天主席我相信他們也都是非常關注今天的題目那麼到底我們跟實際的媒體業者進行了哪些溝通因為就像報告所提出來的\n就是現在不論是澳洲或者是其他國家因為在使用媒體溢價法之後也被這個所謂大型的平台不論是Meta或者是Google進行了所謂的報復也就是說他們乾脆直接就是下價或者是不導流那我相信媒體跟溢所謂平台之間是一種共生共好的關係那是最好的\n那麼在台灣的話台灣的媒體目前對於類似媒體議價法或者是真的有一個所謂的平台來協助議價他們最新的想法跟看法又是什麼呢當然我相信現場也有文化部也有所謂的這個國科會等等但是現在主責是數位部的話我就來請問一下到底在近期內跟媒體之間的溝通有多少\n那麼媒體他們認為現在需要的真的還是溢價法嗎還是更先進的就是剛剛有我們本院的委員所提到的著作連結權相關的法案又或者是說他必須併到另外更廣更大的AI相關的基本法等等因為我要因為我時間有限所以我最後再請\n科技部來回應就是目前其實最有可數位部來回應就是其實目前對媒體來說他們所面對的一個實質的狀況就是當我們使用AI你把幾篇新聞輸入進去之後只要30秒他生成另外一篇根本\n完全不一樣的文章平台根本完全已經不需要去透過連結link的方式去使用這些媒體言下之意我們當然原本利益良善的是希望創建一個平台協助業者跟\n社群平台來做溝通但現在產生第三者也就是ChatGP之類的AI的時候那這變成是一個三方的問題請問數位部有考量到嗎那麼有更先進的法規或法律在做研擬嗎否則等到又一樣過了五年之後我們的立法又落後了\n那個委員分析的很好確實確實新的技術的出現改變我們當初對媒體溢價法的看法那我從上任之後有公協會來找我也有學者各方面來找我就對這個議題表示不同看法\n那當然就是說在討論過程中當然大部分人當初還是主張認為還是用媒體強迫溢價法那我們也朝著後面去做很多的研究那也去觀察國際的發展的趨勢才會有今天的這樣的一個態度就是說我們發現媒體強迫溢價法在有些國家實施之後\n並沒有達到當初想要實行的效果那當然這個著作臨接權是一種因為因為應付AI的產生是一個方法但是那牽涉到更複雜的這個所謂修法跟那個所以我們當然是希望能夠整合像剛剛講著作臨接權就著作權法的\n的那個修法然後再加上也許一些基金共融但這個還需要再討論但是這個還需要跟大院還有跟一般的所謂的民眾來這個這個業者來溝通當然也要跟這個平台業者來溝通希望找出一個大家能夠同意然後能夠共融的一個方案讓這個事情能夠所謂新聞有價的事情能夠落實\n這個是我們現在的一個在在在評估但我們但是希望盡快啦所以但因為現在是稍微受到這個剛講這個關稅的影響我們覺得這個時間點去提出任何東西可能會影響到關稅的談判但是只要這個結束以後我們會再看再跟再看用什麼樣方式來提出最有效對我們新聞媒體最有效方法來解決我們現在所謂新聞有價的這個問題\n好 所以本席要提醒的就是我們立的法絕對要走在前面如果說現在媒體一家法我實話實說我自己媒體出來的它現在已經落後了所以在這樣的概念裡面要把新的狀況也要放進去這樣才不要說立一個法擺在那裡大家浪費了時間但是其實它可能法規根本用不到\n那這個才是沒有辦法解決問題而不符合現在實際所應應的狀況但是本席還是同意就是必須要在一定的時間之內而且必須要回應媒體的需求然後也要能夠結合現在我們整體的不論是網路又或者是整個時代的潮流好 謝謝委員建議 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.652 --> 00:04.127\n謝謝主席主席有請數位部部長好數位部黃部長\n\n00:08.390 --> 00:33.919\n林次長如果有需要補充也可以一起上台沒問題林次長部長好我想本席是在上一屆2020年擔任立委之後就提出了有關於媒體一家法我想當時的緣由您在報告上面也寫得非常清楚就是2021年澳洲再加上2023年開始就是有關於大型的平台在使用新聞上面的這個所謂使用者付費的部分但是我們知道時間來到2025年\n\n00:35.600 --> 00:51.659\n很多的狀況都已經跟我們現實當時所提出來的法案已經完全不一樣包括現在AI成為這個網路世界尤其是AI生成當中我相信它已經所延伸的問題恐怕更甚於媒體衣架法那麼\n\n00:52.720 --> 01:00.150\n我想要請問的就是其實隨著時間的演進包括今天主席我相信他們也都是非常關注今天的題目那麼到底我們跟實際的媒體業者進行了哪些溝通因為就像報告所提出來的\n\n01:07.899 --> 01:33.184\n就是現在不論是澳洲或者是其他國家因為在使用媒體溢價法之後也被這個所謂大型的平台不論是Meta或者是Google進行了所謂的報復也就是說他們乾脆直接就是下價或者是不導流那我相信媒體跟溢所謂平台之間是一種共生共好的關係那是最好的\n\n01:33.664 --> 01:58.721\n那麼在台灣的話台灣的媒體目前對於類似媒體議價法或者是真的有一個所謂的平台來協助議價他們最新的想法跟看法又是什麼呢當然我相信現場也有文化部也有所謂的這個國科會等等但是現在主責是數位部的話我就來請問一下到底在近期內跟媒體之間的溝通有多少\n\n02:03.744 --> 02:27.031\n那麼媒體他們認為現在需要的真的還是溢價法嗎還是更先進的就是剛剛有我們本院的委員所提到的著作連結權相關的法案又或者是說他必須併到另外更廣更大的AI相關的基本法等等因為我要因為我時間有限所以我最後再請\n\n02:28.291 --> 02:48.740\n科技部來回應就是目前其實最有可數位部來回應就是其實目前對媒體來說他們所面對的一個實質的狀況就是當我們使用AI你把幾篇新聞輸入進去之後只要30秒他生成另外一篇根本\n\n02:49.640 --> 03:07.689\n完全不一樣的文章平台根本完全已經不需要去透過連結link的方式去使用這些媒體言下之意我們當然原本利益良善的是希望創建一個平台協助業者跟\n\n03:08.769 --> 03:30.265\n社群平台來做溝通但現在產生第三者也就是ChatGP之類的AI的時候那這變成是一個三方的問題請問數位部有考量到嗎那麼有更先進的法規或法律在做研擬嗎否則等到又一樣過了五年之後我們的立法又落後了\n\n03:31.764 --> 03:45.811\n那個委員分析的很好確實確實新的技術的出現改變我們當初對媒體溢價法的看法那我從上任之後有公協會來找我也有學者各方面來找我就對這個議題表示不同看法\n\n03:46.431 --> 04:03.776\n那當然就是說在討論過程中當然大部分人當初還是主張認為還是用媒體強迫溢價法那我們也朝著後面去做很多的研究那也去觀察國際的發展的趨勢才會有今天的這樣的一個態度就是說我們發現媒體強迫溢價法在有些國家實施之後\n\n04:04.796 --> 04:20.831\n並沒有達到當初想要實行的效果那當然這個著作臨接權是一種因為因為應付AI的產生是一個方法但是那牽涉到更複雜的這個所謂修法跟那個所以我們當然是希望能夠整合像剛剛講著作臨接權就著作權法的\n\n04:21.631 --> 04:39.091\n的那個修法然後再加上也許一些基金共融但這個還需要再討論但是這個還需要跟大院還有跟一般的所謂的民眾來這個這個業者來溝通當然也要跟這個平台業者來溝通希望找出一個大家能夠同意然後能夠共融的一個方案讓這個事情能夠所謂新聞有價的事情能夠落實\n\n04:42.635 --> 05:07.697\n這個是我們現在的一個在在在評估但我們但是希望盡快啦所以但因為現在是稍微受到這個剛講這個關稅的影響我們覺得這個時間點去提出任何東西可能會影響到關稅的談判但是只要這個結束以後我們會再看再跟再看用什麼樣方式來提出最有效對我們新聞媒體最有效方法來解決我們現在所謂新聞有價的這個問題\n\n05:08.769 --> 05:31.318\n好所以本席要提醒的就是我們立的法絕對要走在前面如果說現在媒體一家法我實話實說我自己媒體出來的它現在已經落後了所以在這樣的概念裡面要把新的狀況也要放進去這樣才不要說立一個法擺在那裡大家浪費了時間但是其實它可能法規根本用不到\n\n05:31.818 --> 05:51.866\n那這個才是沒有辦法解決問題而不符合現在實際所應應的狀況但是本席還是同意就是必須要在一定的時間之內而且必須要回應媒體的需求然後也要能夠結合現在我們整體的不論是網路又或者是整個時代的潮流好謝謝委員建議謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.652,"end":4.127,"text":"謝謝主席主席有請數位部部長好 數位部黃部長"},{"start":8.39,"end":33.919,"text":"林次長如果有需要補充也可以一起上台沒問題林次長部長好我想本席是在上一屆2020年擔任立委之後就提出了有關於媒體一家法我想當時的緣由您在報告上面也寫得非常清楚就是2021年澳洲再加上2023年開始就是有關於大型的平台在使用新聞上面的這個所謂使用者付費的部分但是我們知道時間來到2025年"},{"start":35.6,"end":51.659,"text":"很多的狀況都已經跟我們現實當時所提出來的法案已經完全不一樣包括現在AI成為這個網路世界尤其是AI生成當中我相信它已經所延伸的問題恐怕更甚於媒體衣架法那麼"},{"start":52.72,"end":60.15,"text":"我想要請問的就是其實隨著時間的演進包括今天主席我相信他們也都是非常關注今天的題目那麼到底我們跟實際的媒體業者進行了哪些溝通因為就像報告所提出來的"},{"start":67.899,"end":93.184,"text":"就是現在不論是澳洲或者是其他國家因為在使用媒體溢價法之後也被這個所謂大型的平台不論是Meta或者是Google進行了所謂的報復也就是說他們乾脆直接就是下價或者是不導流那我相信媒體跟溢所謂平台之間是一種共生共好的關係那是最好的"},{"start":93.664,"end":118.721,"text":"那麼在台灣的話台灣的媒體目前對於類似媒體議價法或者是真的有一個所謂的平台來協助議價他們最新的想法跟看法又是什麼呢當然我相信現場也有文化部也有所謂的這個國科會等等但是現在主責是數位部的話我就來請問一下到底在近期內跟媒體之間的溝通有多少"},{"start":123.744,"end":147.031,"text":"那麼媒體他們認為現在需要的真的還是溢價法嗎還是更先進的就是剛剛有我們本院的委員所提到的著作連結權相關的法案又或者是說他必須併到另外更廣更大的AI相關的基本法等等因為我要因為我時間有限所以我最後再請"},{"start":148.291,"end":168.74,"text":"科技部來回應就是目前其實最有可數位部來回應就是其實目前對媒體來說他們所面對的一個實質的狀況就是當我們使用AI你把幾篇新聞輸入進去之後只要30秒他生成另外一篇根本"},{"start":169.64,"end":187.689,"text":"完全不一樣的文章平台根本完全已經不需要去透過連結link的方式去使用這些媒體言下之意我們當然原本利益良善的是希望創建一個平台協助業者跟"},{"start":188.769,"end":210.265,"text":"社群平台來做溝通但現在產生第三者也就是ChatGP之類的AI的時候那這變成是一個三方的問題請問數位部有考量到嗎那麼有更先進的法規或法律在做研擬嗎否則等到又一樣過了五年之後我們的立法又落後了"},{"start":211.764,"end":225.811,"text":"那個委員分析的很好確實確實新的技術的出現改變我們當初對媒體溢價法的看法那我從上任之後有公協會來找我也有學者各方面來找我就對這個議題表示不同看法"},{"start":226.431,"end":243.776,"text":"那當然就是說在討論過程中當然大部分人當初還是主張認為還是用媒體強迫溢價法那我們也朝著後面去做很多的研究那也去觀察國際的發展的趨勢才會有今天的這樣的一個態度就是說我們發現媒體強迫溢價法在有些國家實施之後"},{"start":244.796,"end":260.831,"text":"並沒有達到當初想要實行的效果那當然這個著作臨接權是一種因為因為應付AI的產生是一個方法但是那牽涉到更複雜的這個所謂修法跟那個所以我們當然是希望能夠整合像剛剛講著作臨接權就著作權法的"},{"start":261.631,"end":279.091,"text":"的那個修法然後再加上也許一些基金共融但這個還需要再討論但是這個還需要跟大院還有跟一般的所謂的民眾來這個這個業者來溝通當然也要跟這個平台業者來溝通希望找出一個大家能夠同意然後能夠共融的一個方案讓這個事情能夠所謂新聞有價的事情能夠落實"},{"start":282.635,"end":307.697,"text":"這個是我們現在的一個在在在評估但我們但是希望盡快啦所以但因為現在是稍微受到這個剛講這個關稅的影響我們覺得這個時間點去提出任何東西可能會影響到關稅的談判但是只要這個結束以後我們會再看再跟再看用什麼樣方式來提出最有效對我們新聞媒體最有效方法來解決我們現在所謂新聞有價的這個問題"},{"start":308.769,"end":331.318,"text":"好 所以本席要提醒的就是我們立的法絕對要走在前面如果說現在媒體一家法我實話實說我自己媒體出來的它現在已經落後了所以在這樣的概念裡面要把新的狀況也要放進去這樣才不要說立一個法擺在那裡大家浪費了時間但是其實它可能法規根本用不到"},{"start":331.818,"end":351.866,"text":"那這個才是沒有辦法解決問題而不符合現在實際所應應的狀況但是本席還是同意就是必須要在一定的時間之內而且必須要回應媒體的需求然後也要能夠結合現在我們整體的不論是網路又或者是整個時代的潮流好 謝謝委員建議 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1152,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（13時30分），謝謝主席。主席，有請數位部部長。"],["主席：數位部黃部長。"],["林委員楚茵：林次長如果需要補充也可以一起上臺，沒問題。"],["主席：林次長。"],["林委員楚茵：部長好。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["林委員楚茵：本席在上一屆2020年擔任立委之後就提出了媒體議價法，當時的緣由您在報告上面也寫得非常清楚，就是2021年的澳洲，再加上2023年開始大型平臺在使用新聞上所謂的使用者付費部分，但是時間來到2025年，很多狀況都已經跟我們當時所提出來的法案完全不一樣，包括現在AI成為網路世界……尤其是AI生成，我相信它所延伸的問題恐怕更甚於媒體議價法。","我想要請問的就是，隨著時間的演進，包括今天的主席等等也都非常關注今天的題目，到底我們跟實際的媒體業者進行了哪些溝通？就像報告所提出來的，現在不論是澳洲或者是其他國家，在使用媒體議價法之後也被大型平臺，不論是Meta或者是Google進行了所謂的報復，也就是說，它們乾脆直接下架或者不導流。我相信媒體跟平臺之間如果是一種共生共好的關係，那是最好的，在臺灣的話，臺灣的媒體目前對於類似媒體議價法或者真的有一個所謂的平臺來協助議價，他們最新的想法跟看法又是什麼呢？現場也有文化部、也有國科會等等，但是現在主責是數位部的話，我就來請問一下，到底近期內跟媒體之間的溝通有多少？媒體認為現在需要的還是議價法嗎？還是更先進的，就是剛剛也有我們本院委員提到的著作鄰接權相關法案，又或者它必須併到另外更廣、更大的AI相關基本法等等？因為我時間有限，所以我最後再請數位部回應。","其實目前對於媒體來說，他們所面對的一個實質狀況就是，當我們使用AI把幾篇新聞輸入進去之後，只要30秒就生成另外一篇根本完全不一樣的文章，平臺根本已經完全不需要透過連結、link的方式去使用這些媒體，言下之意，我們原本立意良善希望創建一個平臺協助業者跟社群平臺來做溝通，但現在產生第三者──也就是ChatGPT等等AI的時候，這變成是一個三方的問題，請問數位部有考量到嗎？有更先進的法規或法律在研擬嗎？否則又一樣等到過了5年之後，我們的立法又落後了，部長？"],["黃部長彥男：委員分析得很好，確實新的技術出現改變了我們當初對媒體議價法的看法，從我上任之後，有公協會來找我、也有學者各方面來找我，對這個議題表示不同看法，在討論過程中，當然大部分還是主張用媒體強迫議價法，我們也朝這方面去做很多的研究、也去觀察國際的發展趨勢，才會有今天這樣的一個態度，就是我們發現媒體強迫議價法在有些國家施行之後並沒有達到當初想要施行的效果；當然著作鄰接權是應付AI產生的一個方法，但是那牽涉到更複雜的修法跟其他。","我們當然希望能夠整合像剛剛講的著作鄰接權、著作權法修法，然後也許再加上一些共榮基金，但這個還需要再討論，還需要跟大院、一般的民眾、業者來溝通，當然也要跟平臺業者來溝通，希望找出一個大家能夠同意、能夠共榮的一個方案，讓「新聞有價」這件事情能夠落實，這是我們現在還在評估的狀況。我們當然希望儘快，不過現在稍微受到剛剛講的關稅影響，我們覺得這個時間點去提出任何東西可能會影響到關稅的談判，只要這個結束了以後，我們會再看用什麼樣的方式提出對我們新聞媒體最有效的方法來解決現在所謂「新聞有價」的這個問題。"],["林委員楚茵：好，所以本席要提醒的就是，我們立的法絕對要走在前面，如果現在以媒體議價法來講，我實話實說，我自己是媒體出來的，它現在已經落後了，所以在這樣的概念裡面也要把新的狀況放進去，這樣才不會立一個法擺在那裡，大家浪費了時間，但是這個法規可能根本用不到，這樣沒有辦法解決問題而且不符合現在所因應的狀況。但是本席還是同意必須要在一定的時間之內，而且必須要回應媒體的需求，然後也要能夠結合現在不論是整體網路或者整個時代的潮流。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員建議，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林楚茵委員。","鍾佳濱委員，鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱委員不在。","王美惠，王美惠、王美惠委員不在。","吳思瑤，吳思瑤、吳思瑤委員不在。","徐欣瑩，徐欣瑩、徐欣瑩委員不在。","現在請蔡易餘委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":148,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-23,22-1","speakers":["林國成","王鴻薇","張啓楷","洪孟楷","林宜瑾","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","葛如鈞","范雲","林俊憲","蔡其昌","許智傑","郭昱晴","徐富癸","李昆澤","何欣純","陳素月","邱若華","廖先翔","魯明哲","陳培瑜","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","羅廷瑋","吳沛憶","葉元之","游顥","林楚茵","蔡易餘","張雅琳","柯志恩","萬美玲","黃健豪","劉書彬","翁曉玲"],"page_start":61,"meetingDate":["2025-05-01"],"gazette_id":"1144501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員林楚茵等17人擬具「新聞媒體與數位平台議價法草案」案；二、審查委員羅廷瑋等\n16人擬具「新聞媒體與數位平臺強制議價法草案」案；三、審查委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「新聞媒\n體與數位平臺強制議價法草案」案；四、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「新聞媒體與數位科技平台公\n平發展法草案」案；五、審查委員林宜瑾等21 人擬具「數位新聞發展與民主韌性法草案」案；\n六、審查委員范雲等21人擬具「數位新聞發展與民主韌性法草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1144501_00002"}}}