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\"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 481.009, \"end\": 481.129, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 481.129, \"end\": 481.329, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 481.329, \"end\": 481.449, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 481.449, \"end\": 481.549, \"score\": 0.703}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 481.549, \"end\": 481.889, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 481.889, \"end\": 482.11, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 482.11, \"end\": 482.13, \"score\": 0.999}]}, {\"start\": 482.91, \"end\": 496.3, \"text\": \"那目前從我們中央社的這個街頭的資訊來看中央部規劃的方案仍然是只有會員制點數加倍那本席簡單的換算一下按照現在目前我們台鐵會員折抵的方式是每消費50元累積1點\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 482.91, \"end\": 483.23, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 483.23, \"end\": 483.39, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 483.39, \"end\": 483.831, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 483.831, \"end\": 484.031, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 484.031, \"end\": 484.171, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 484.171, \"end\": 484.331, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 484.331, \"end\": 484.571, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 484.571, \"end\": 485.092, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"街\", \"start\": 485.092, \"end\": 485.332, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"頭\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 485.332, \"end\": 485.932, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 485.932, \"end\": 486.233, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 486.233, \"end\": 486.253, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 486.253, \"end\": 486.473, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 486.473, \"end\": 486.873, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 486.873, \"end\": 486.953, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 486.953, \"end\": 487.073, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 487.073, \"end\": 487.554, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"仍\", \"start\": 487.554, \"end\": 487.654, \"score\": 0.633}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 487.654, \"end\": 487.934, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 487.934, \"end\": 488.214, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 488.214, \"end\": 488.354, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 488.354, \"end\": 489.115, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 489.115, \"end\": 489.996, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 489.996, \"end\": 490.316, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"倍\", \"start\": 490.316, \"end\": 491.036, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 491.036, \"end\": 491.216, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 491.216, \"end\": 491.377, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 491.377, \"end\": 491.797, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 491.797, \"end\": 492.057, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"換\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 492.057, \"end\": 492.237, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 492.237, \"end\": 492.337, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 492.337, \"end\": 492.578, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"按\", \"start\": 492.578, \"end\": 492.678, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 492.678, \"end\": 492.958, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 492.958, \"end\": 493.098, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 493.098, \"end\": 493.238, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 493.238, \"end\": 493.378, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 493.378, \"end\": 493.578, \"score\": 0.745}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 493.578, \"end\": 494.599, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"鐵\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"折\", \"start\": 494.599, \"end\": 494.779, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"抵\", \"start\": 494.779, \"end\": 494.859, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 494.859, \"end\": 494.959, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 494.959, \"end\": 495.18, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 495.18, \"end\": 495.34, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 495.34, \"end\": 495.82, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 495.82, \"end\": 496.04, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 496.04, \"end\": 496.06, \"score\": 0.255}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"元\", \"start\": 496.06, \"end\": 496.28, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"累\", \"start\": 496.28, \"end\": 496.3, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"點\"}]}, {\"start\": 499.932, \"end\": 517.426, \"text\": \"兩點折一元就是說等於每消費一百塊才能折抵一元那就是一趴的回饋金那你即便未來花東加倍也就只有兩趴的回饋但問題是這一次的票價調整台北到台東之前還有單趟就漲了一百五十三元來回就是三百零六元\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"折\", \"start\": 499.932, \"end\": 500.413, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 500.413, \"end\": 500.573, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"元\", \"start\": 500.573, \"end\": 501.193, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 501.193, \"end\": 501.293, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 501.293, \"end\": 501.654, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 501.654, \"end\": 501.754, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 501.754, \"end\": 501.934, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 501.934, \"end\": 502.174, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 502.174, \"end\": 502.454, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 502.454, \"end\": 502.594, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"百\", \"start\": 502.594, \"end\": 503.055, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"塊\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 503.055, \"end\": 503.215, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 503.215, \"end\": 503.415, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"折\", \"start\": 503.415, \"end\": 503.615, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"抵\", \"start\": 503.615, \"end\": 503.996, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 503.996, \"end\": 504.156, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"元\", \"start\": 504.156, \"end\": 504.736, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 504.736, \"end\": 504.876, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 504.876, \"end\": 504.996, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 504.996, \"end\": 505.176, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 505.176, \"end\": 505.397, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"趴\", \"start\": 505.397, \"end\": 505.637, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 505.637, \"end\": 505.897, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 505.897, \"end\": 506.357, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"饋\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 506.357, \"end\": 506.998, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 506.998, \"end\": 507.238, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 507.238, \"end\": 507.418, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"即\", \"start\": 507.418, \"end\": 507.558, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"便\", \"start\": 507.558, \"end\": 507.758, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 507.758, \"end\": 508.179, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"花\", \"start\": 508.179, \"end\": 508.599, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 508.599, \"end\": 508.839, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"倍\", \"start\": 508.839, \"end\": 508.999, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 508.999, \"end\": 509.139, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 509.139, \"end\": 509.259, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 509.259, \"end\": 509.34, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 509.34, \"end\": 509.66, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"趴\", \"start\": 509.66, \"end\": 509.86, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 509.86, \"end\": 509.98, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 509.98, \"end\": 510.741, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"饋\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 510.741, \"end\": 511.161, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 511.161, \"end\": 511.841, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 511.841, \"end\": 511.961, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 511.961, \"end\": 512.102, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 512.102, \"end\": 512.302, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"票\", \"start\": 512.302, \"end\": 512.962, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 512.962, \"end\": 513.182, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 513.182, \"end\": 513.342, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"北\", \"start\": 513.342, \"end\": 513.443, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 513.443, \"end\": 513.603, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 513.603, \"end\": 513.863, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 513.863, \"end\": 513.963, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 513.963, \"end\": 514.243, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 514.243, \"end\": 514.383, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"趟\", \"start\": 514.383, \"end\": 514.503, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 514.503, \"end\": 514.764, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 514.764, \"end\": 514.924, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 514.924, \"end\": 515.204, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"百\", \"start\": 515.204, \"end\": 515.564, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 515.564, \"end\": 515.704, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"十\", 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\"那如果依照我們現行台鐵規劃的花東優惠方案,有兩個嚴重的問題,第一個就是說,用台北到台東來回自強號來換算,你消費金額大概只能折18.7元,你用19塊去算就好了,跟你來回票價調漲306塊來比起來真的是杯水車薪。第二個其實很多長者根本不會使用智慧型手機,\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 518.166, \"end\": 518.286, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 518.286, \"end\": 518.426, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 518.426, \"end\": 518.606, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 518.606, \"end\": 518.787, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 518.787, \"end\": 518.987, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 518.987, \"end\": 519.467, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 519.467, \"end\": 519.647, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 519.647, \"end\": 520.188, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"鐵\"}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 520.188, \"end\": 520.428, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"花\", \"start\": 520.428, \"end\": 520.968, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"優\"}, {\"word\": \"惠\", \"start\": 520.968, \"end\": 521.148, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 521.148, \"end\": 521.268, \"score\": 0.71}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 521.268, \"end\": 521.669, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 521.669, \"end\": 522.249, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"嚴\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 522.249, \"end\": 522.409, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 522.409, \"end\": 522.829, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 522.829, \"end\": 522.929, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 522.929, \"end\": 523.01, \"score\": 0.69}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 523.01, \"end\": 523.13, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 523.13, \"end\": 523.67, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 523.67, \"end\": 523.83, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 523.83, \"end\": 523.97, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"北\", \"start\": 523.97, \"end\": 524.09, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 524.09, \"end\": 524.25, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 524.25, \"end\": 525.271, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 525.271, \"end\": 525.391, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 525.391, \"end\": 526.432, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"換\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 526.432, \"end\": 527.092, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 527.092, \"end\": 527.293, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"消\", \"start\": 527.293, \"end\": 527.833, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 527.833, \"end\": 528.313, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 528.313, \"end\": 528.433, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 528.433, \"end\": 528.614, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 528.614, \"end\": 528.694, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 528.694, \"end\": 528.914, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"折\", \"start\": 528.914, \"end\": 530.495, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"元\", \"start\": 530.495, \"end\": 531.175, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 531.175, \"end\": 531.255, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 531.255, \"end\": 531.556, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"塊\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 531.556, \"end\": 531.736, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 531.736, \"end\": 531.876, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 531.876, \"end\": 532.116, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 532.116, \"end\": 532.396, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 532.396, \"end\": 533.017, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 533.017, \"end\": 533.197, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 533.197, \"end\": 533.477, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 533.477, \"end\": 533.637, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"票\", \"start\": 533.637, \"end\": 535.498, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"塊\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 535.498, \"end\": 535.679, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 535.679, \"end\": 535.879, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 535.879, \"end\": 535.959, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 535.959, \"end\": 536.079, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 536.079, \"end\": 536.579, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"杯\", \"start\": 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539.942, \"end\": 540.062, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 540.062, \"end\": 540.282, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"智\", \"start\": 540.282, \"end\": 540.402, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"慧\", \"start\": 540.402, \"end\": 540.562, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"型\", \"start\": 540.562, \"end\": 540.742, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"手\", \"start\": 540.742, \"end\": 540.762, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}]}, {\"start\": 542.083, \"end\": 570.729, \"text\": \"這樣要怎麼去累積點數甚至去折扣這個票價這是本席發現這兩個問題因此從目前台鐵的這個方案來看所謂的優惠恐怕讓花東的居民是無感那也恐怕看得到吃不到那請問院長你覺得目前這樣的優惠方案難道對於東部交通弱勢地位而言是足夠的嗎部長詳細說明部長的方案報告委員您所聽到的加倍送不是只有一倍是好幾倍\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 542.083, \"end\": 542.243, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 542.243, \"end\": 542.403, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 542.403, \"end\": 542.543, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"累\", \"start\": 542.543, \"end\": 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723.873, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 723.873, \"end\": 724.273, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 724.273, \"end\": 724.414, \"score\": 0.738}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 724.414, \"end\": 724.654, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 724.654, \"end\": 724.874, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 724.874, \"end\": 725.354, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"週\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 725.354, \"end\": 725.554, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 725.554, \"end\": 725.794, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 725.794, \"end\": 726.035, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 726.035, \"end\": 726.275, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 726.275, \"end\": 726.375, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 726.375, \"end\": 726.555, \"score\": 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\"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 753.408, \"end\": 753.448, \"score\": 0.502}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 753.448, \"end\": 753.608, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 753.608, \"end\": 753.768, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 753.768, \"end\": 753.788, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 757.578, \"end\": 781.58, \"text\": \"調價之前一定會把這個方案完全確定而且沒有所謂系統銜接的上銜接不上的問題一定要開始適用這個跟委員保證謝謝院長也謝謝部長其實我們本席跟部長的互動其實都很好因為部長也真的夠了解到東部的交通的這個先天的不足的問題那這邊要請部長這邊盡快來演繹那另外講到的道路就是\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 757.578, \"end\": 757.738, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 757.738, \"end\": 757.938, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 757.938, \"end\": 758.058, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 758.058, \"end\": 758.298, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 758.298, \"end\": 758.819, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 930.078, \"end\": 930.318, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 930.318, \"end\": 930.338, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:13,753 --> 00:00:16,734\n好謝謝主席我們有請卓榮泰卓院長請卓院長備詢公務員好\n\n2\n00:00:27,608 --> 00:00:49,500\n院長早安院長院長記得上次在我們經濟組總質詢的時候本席有跟您表達善意就是對於去年的這個風災本席向中央爭取台東農產全品項的這個災損救助還有旅宿業者的店家動漲後來行政院也確實聽見我們地方的聲音我想這是行政院跟立法委員之間一個非常理想的互動的方式\n\n3\n00:00:50,260 --> 00:01:14,786\n那這一次本席在交通組總質詢一開始想要先跟院長分享一首詩做一個善意的引言這邊也分享給所有我們中央部會的首長這首詩是余光忠先生所寫的《台東》本席讀其中的幾段給院長聽城市比台北是矮一點天比台北卻高得多燈比台北是淡一點心比台北卻亮得多\n\n4\n00:01:15,706 --> 00:01:30,834\n人比西岸是西一點山比西岸勸密得多港比西岸是小一點海比西岸卻大得多報紙送到是晚一點太陽起來卻早得多無論地球怎麼轉台東永遠在前面\n\n5\n00:01:32,059 --> 00:02:01,026\n我想這首詩是對台東人來說感觸特別的深厚雖然台東比較遠人比較少不過台東擁有全台灣最美麗的海岸線我想這裡的人也非常的緩解溫暖最重要的是台東人的和善絕對不代表台東人好起伏那對本席而言這首詩的最後兩句就是無論地球怎麼轉台東永遠在前面這就是我從政的初衷只要是為了台東好的事情我一定全力以赴\n\n6\n00:02:01,886 --> 00:02:12,156\n我也不怕得罪任何人這也是先前東海岸風電開發案本席一再要求院長跟各部會首長一定要全力阻止跟嚴審因為我絕對不允許\n\n7\n00:02:15,270 --> 00:02:42,278\n未經共識的開發案破壞我們台東美麗的環境我們的家園也絕對不允許任何外力破壞台東這片團結善良的家園那今天質詢的一開始本席要先把握機會跟院長反映一件台東重要的時事就是現在是我們鬼頭島的這個漁訓期那但是有很多漁民朋友都跟我反映那國防部公告在五月份在台東屏東一帶的外海有許多這個實彈射擊的演習\n\n8\n00:02:43,138 --> 00:03:09,333\n那演習期間因為海域的管制漁民沒有辦法出海捕魚那這對當地漁民是一個很大的衝擊原來整條都有經營能蓋這個漁訊期就是4月到6月還有9月到11月那其中又以4月到6月的漁獲量最多但光是5月受到演習影響的時間就恐怕高達半個月之久那本席要表達的是說國防自主能力是捍衛國家安全的重要基礎本席絕對支持\n\n9\n00:03:10,313 --> 00:03:30,488\n但是這幾年密集的在我們東部海域進行的這個實彈射擊造成漁民生氣很大很大的影響我們例如在2022年光是一到五月中科院跟國軍在台東外海射擊演訓的時間就超過了五十天這引發地方劇烈的反彈那國防部後來也承諾說未來演習會避開漁訓期\n\n10\n00:03:33,610 --> 00:03:58,302\n那延後到六月到七月那同時也說會編列這個敦青木林的基金齁那但是為什麼現在漁民很懷疑說有時候你國防部之前還要選擇五個月份魚仔回去蒸來這裡延伸齁這很多漁民會認為國防部說話不算話那另外還有多漁民反映說國防部所謂的這個基金齁漁民根本拿不到這個實質的補貼啦齁所以在這裡本縣要向議員們來表達的是說臺灣的漁民絕對管理配合般的國防\n\n11\n00:04:02,844 --> 00:04:24,031\n但是國家也要給漁民條活路所以因此我要請院長才是請國防部務必遵守當時的承諾超延的時間避開漁訊期才不會衝擊我們當地的這個產業那如果對於產業造成的衝擊也必須要給受影響的這個從業人員必要的補貼請問院長是不是可以做得到\n\n12\n00:04:24,831 --> 00:04:52,797\n首先謝謝委員一開始針對國家安全國防需求的支持這我們的心情都一樣第二就是國防部他一定有整年度的所謂演習各種的規劃那目前很多的規劃也要因應對岸時常對我們時不時有計劃沒計劃有公告沒公告定期不定期的各種演訓但是我承諾我會跟國防部去了解跟要求在保護漁民的\n\n13\n00:04:54,048 --> 00:05:17,045\n魚訊期的過程當中應該事先做好整年的規劃事發生之前要做事中要做好跟漁民的溝通事後有任何的補償、賠償的問題一定要確實落實謝謝院長因為其實這個是漁民是很疑惑是說東西都說好了你才知道後悔四月到六月是魚要大出的時候你這個時候再來延伸我聽說過去檢討這個事情謝謝院長\n\n14\n00:05:21,969 --> 00:05:47,745\n接下來本席來跟針對台東重大的交通跟公共議題來跟院長還有部長來進行討論首先本席有看到台鐵宣布配合小清水溪的這個橋改建的工程完工樹林到台東之間要增加增開兩班這個自強號的列車那東部鐵路量能提升當然是好事情但關鍵的是小清水溪橋就是因為先前颱風被土石流沖斷所以才需要進一步改建\n\n15\n00:05:48,405 --> 00:06:14,744\n尤其是可見我們東部的鐵路非常非常的脆弱而現在所謂的增加班次其實也只是逐步恢復到過去的這個量能尤其是現在這個增加的這兩班都是中午時間才發生這對我們台東居民這個通勤啊就醫工作需求有點幫助其實是有限那其實除了到台北之外台東到高雄的這個往返列車也是相新急迫的這個需求那經常因為\n\n16\n00:06:16,124 --> 00:06:37,683\n要到高雄就診或是工作因為我們早班的車太少導致民眾必須提前一天去高雄或者又因為晚班的車趕不上需要多留一天在高雄隔天再去醫院就醫這樣一來一往會增加一到兩天的住宿費的負擔這是非常沉重的一個負擔一直本期具體的要求\n\n17\n00:06:38,403 --> 00:07:04,850\n增加我們台東往返高雄的這個清晨與深夜的班次我想這有助於民眾到高雄就醫或是工作能夠當日往返降低我們交通的時間跟成本也降低衍生的這個住宿的成本強化我們醫療就醫就診交通的這個可靜性也安排時間讓安排時間更有具有彈性性讓我們照顧我們台東人這個行的正義請問部長這邊是不是可以承諾來研議這個部分\n\n18\n00:07:05,770 --> 00:07:25,749\n報告委員這個部分確實對台東的鄉親來說其實往南走到高雄是比較近的不管是就醫或就學那這個部分需求確實在那我們會來研議這個班次看怎麼調整不過現在最關鍵的其實是南回的整個路線的改善因為很多的路段目前是單軌委員應該非常清楚\n\n19\n00:07:26,209 --> 00:07:39,309\n因為是單軌所以他這個車輛的數目沒有辦法大幅的來提升所以南回的軌道的建設我們一樣會往前推進那另外委員剛剛所交代的就是說車次的調整我們來想辦法\n\n20\n00:07:41,157 --> 00:08:02,130\n謝謝部長承諾願意來研議這件事情那接下來我們就是談到台鐵就是談我們台鐵票價的部分上次在總諮詢的時候院長也有承諾本席說會請交通部盡快的來研議我們華東專屬優惠票價的部分那在隔週交通委員會的時候陳部長也有承諾本席五月底之前會提出\n\n21\n00:08:02,910 --> 00:08:16,300\n那目前從我們中央社的這個街頭的資訊來看中央部規劃的方案仍然是只有會員制點數加倍那本席簡單的換算一下按照現在目前我們台鐵會員折抵的方式是每消費50元累積1點\n\n22\n00:08:19,932 --> 00:08:37,426\n兩點折一元就是說等於每消費一百塊才能折抵一元那就是一趴的回饋金那你即便未來花東加倍也就只有兩趴的回饋但問題是這一次的票價調整台北到台東之前還有單趟就漲了一百五十三元來回就是三百零六元\n\n23\n00:08:38,166 --> 00:09:00,762\n那如果依照我們現行台鐵規劃的花東優惠方案,有兩個嚴重的問題,第一個就是說,用台北到台東來回自強號來換算,你消費金額大概只能折18.7元,你用19塊去算就好了,跟你來回票價調漲306塊來比起來真的是杯水車薪。第二個其實很多長者根本不會使用智慧型手機,\n\n24\n00:09:02,083 --> 00:09:30,729\n這樣要怎麼去累積點數甚至去折扣這個票價這是本席發現這兩個問題因此從目前台鐵的這個方案來看所謂的優惠恐怕讓花東的居民是無感那也恐怕看得到吃不到那請問院長你覺得目前這樣的優惠方案難道對於東部交通弱勢地位而言是足夠的嗎部長詳細說明部長的方案報告委員您所聽到的加倍送不是只有一倍是好幾倍\n\n25\n00:09:32,140 --> 00:09:58,631\n你一百塊跟一塊錢對但是它好幾倍的狀況不會像你所說的只有百分之二不會這麼少這個是台鐵提出來的優惠方案沒有我覺得你所聽到的加倍但那個倍不是一倍有可能是四倍可能是五倍因為行政院院長有特別交代說第一要對花東的鄉親要多一些優惠第二我們希望平日跟假日要有彈性所以我們平日的優惠又會更多\n\n26\n00:09:59,191 --> 00:10:14,403\n謝謝部長的說明部長其實我們在委員會已經討論過這件事還有第二個就是所謂連長者怎麼去使用這個部分都是還是要克服這個部分其實台鐵都有在研議如果到櫃台找我們的同仁他也會幫長者來服務這個會員的連長者都可以克服的\n\n27\n00:10:18,166 --> 00:10:34,493\n院長,本席為什麼要不斷地爭取花東專屬票價的優惠跟折扣?就是因為你跟西部比起來,西部多元的大空交通工具比起來東部基本上就只有鐵路啦,不然就是昂貴的飛機票更關鍵的是東部的鐵路受到天災影響的敏感度非常高嘛\n\n28\n00:10:34,833 --> 00:10:58,766\n在安全性上你跟西部比遠遠不足嘛那現在你要用一樣的票價的方式來算我想這東部人不會接受啦這個就是本席為什麼一直提齁那因為我記得好幾個月前本席就呼籲中央說要用花東基金的專款專用的補貼方式給你花東居民的優惠票價那先前本席質詢國發會主委還有城市港部長的時候你們也認為這是可行的方向對吧\n\n29\n00:10:59,326 --> 00:11:23,348\n那甚至在前兩天連民進黨的委員都呼籲本席的說法認為應該用花東基金來補貼嘛那非常一樣我們交通部現在都還沒有任何具體的作為那本席其實有掌握到其實交通部內部確實有來討論這件事情花東基金給予票價的折扣是一個可行的方向但問題現在是聽說卡在系統來不及跟上我想這個說法本席都沒辦法接受\n\n30\n00:11:23,988 --> 00:11:42,220\n因為票價你是從二月就規劃要調漲那過去三個月呢難道沒有任何預先的這個配套的準備這部分我請陳部長你必須要扛起責任勇於任事本席在這邊也提出兩個具體的要求請組委員長來採釋第一個交通部必須在台鐵新票價上路之前\n\n31\n00:11:42,840 --> 00:12:07,856\n規劃好花東優惠票價的方案並且要直接補貼或者是折扣而不是只有民眾無感的會員制點數優惠第二個交通部必須立刻與國發會來開會討論有關花東基金補貼的事宜並進行提案申請然後作為未來穩定的裁員請院長回應而且也要請我們相關部會一週內把相關的資料提供到本席的辦公室院長\n\n32\n00:12:09,015 --> 00:12:33,788\n謝謝委員西部的交通選項比較多東部比較少所以我們當然是記憶這樣的一個利基點所以我也請交通部能夠對東部的鄉親做這些票價上面的另外的想法不要說委員剛剛你如果委員所說只有2%不要說委員來你接受我也覺得不甚合理但是我所知道交通部現在在研擬的絕對不是這個方案給他們一點時間那麼這個一定會在6月\n\n33\n00:12:37,578 --> 00:13:01,580\n調價之前一定會把這個方案完全確定而且沒有所謂系統銜接的上銜接不上的問題一定要開始適用這個跟委員保證謝謝院長也謝謝部長其實我們本席跟部長的互動其實都很好因為部長也真的夠了解到東部的交通的這個先天的不足的問題那這邊要請部長這邊盡快來演繹那另外講到的道路就是\n\n34\n00:13:02,441 --> 00:13:30,922\n交通才就是道路的問題喔那一條安全回家的路是台東是東部人數十年來最基本的要求花東快也是當年賴清德總統的競選承諾那就在去年本席跟黨黨立委的共同努力下立法院終於通過了組決議要求交通部盡速推動花東快速公路的興建但非常遺憾上一次我在交通委員會跟陳市長部長您討論花東快可行性評估進度的時候您竟然當面跟我說經濟效益確實\n\n35\n00:13:33,583 --> 00:13:51,710\n這不就是坐實了之前媒體所說的花東快被推薦的原因就是因為交通部認為經濟效益低嘛那部長的說法東部人絕對沒有辦法接受因為西部這麼多條的快速道路難道每一條的經濟效益都很高嗎更何況現在台中是連一條我連一條都沒有\n\n36\n00:13:53,231 --> 00:14:10,686\n因此這絕對不應該是政府的理由安全才是最重要的主席長、陳部長本席要很嚴肅的跟兩位表達生命的價值絕對不能用金錢來衡量花蓉花園對東部人的意義就是要挽救無價的這個生命這件事情不是政治議題這個是攸關數十萬東部鄉親生命\n\n37\n00:14:15,083 --> 00:14:39,955\n安全的民生議題請重要一定要正視不要再把台東當二等公民那現在台九縣一旦發生緊急醫療事件即便救護車全數的搶救也常常因為會錯過黃金救援時間造成太多這個無辜生命因為漫長的交通時間而失去那這就是為什麼台東人要這麼在意發動快我認為我們台東人的命要比我長\n\n38\n00:14:41,192 --> 00:14:41,852\n經濟效益的評估當然是\n\n39\n00:14:59,727 --> 00:15:25,156\n既然有志啦但是我是覺得如果從一小段來看他的效益或許有限如果放大整個台灣我們你要看整個台灣形成一個有效的鐵道系統的話他不只是經濟效益對台灣整體的國家的運量是極然增加的所以我是希望交通部能夠持續的去研議這個事情謝謝院長的承諾謝謝院長那接下來在公共旅遊部分\n\n40\n00:15:25,996 --> 00:15:30,338\n因為時間有限,我想之後再來跟我們院長跟部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n13753\t16734\t好 謝謝主席 我們有請卓榮泰卓院長請卓院長備詢公務員好\n27608\t49500\t院長早安 院長 院長記得上次在我們經濟組總質詢的時候本席有跟您表達善意 就是對於去年的這個風災本席向中央爭取台東農產全品項的這個災損救助還有旅宿業者的店家動漲後來行政院也確實聽見我們地方的聲音我想這是行政院跟立法委員之間一個非常理想的互動的方式\n50260\t74786\t那這一次本席在交通組總質詢一開始想要先跟院長分享一首詩做一個善意的引言這邊也分享給所有我們中央部會的首長這首詩是余光忠先生所寫的《台東》本席讀其中的幾段給院長聽城市比台北是矮一點天比台北卻高得多燈比台北是淡一點心比台北卻亮得多\n75706\t90834\t人比西岸是西一點 山比西岸勸密得多港比西岸是小一點 海比西岸卻大得多報紙送到是晚一點 太陽起來卻早得多無論地球怎麼轉 台東永遠在前面\n92059\t121026\t我想這首詩是對台東人來說感觸特別的深厚雖然台東比較遠人比較少不過台東擁有全台灣最美麗的海岸線我想這裡的人也非常的緩解溫暖最重要的是台東人的和善絕對不代表台東人好起伏那對本席而言這首詩的最後兩句就是無論地球怎麼轉台東永遠在前面這就是我從政的初衷只要是為了台東好的事情我一定全力以赴\n121886\t132156\t我也不怕得罪任何人這也是先前東海岸風電開發案本席一再要求院長跟各部會首長一定要全力阻止跟嚴審因為我絕對不允許\n135270\t162278\t未經共識的開發案破壞我們台東美麗的環境我們的家園也絕對不允許任何外力破壞台東這片團結善良的家園那今天質詢的一開始本席要先把握機會跟院長反映一件台東重要的時事就是現在是我們鬼頭島的這個漁訓期那但是有很多漁民朋友都跟我反映那國防部公告在五月份在台東屏東一帶的外海有許多這個實彈射擊的演習\n163138\t189333\t那演習期間因為海域的管制 漁民沒有辦法出海捕魚那這對當地漁民是一個很大的衝擊原來整條都有經營能蓋這個漁訊期就是4月到6月還有9月到11月那其中又以4月到6月的漁獲量最多但光是5月受到演習影響的時間就恐怕高達半個月之久那本席要表達的是說國防自主能力是捍衛國家安全的重要基礎本席絕對支持\n190313\t210488\t但是這幾年密集的在我們東部海域進行的這個實彈射擊造成漁民生氣很大很大的影響我們例如在2022年光是一到五月中科院跟國軍在台東外海射擊演訓的時間就超過了五十天這引發地方劇烈的反彈那國防部後來也承諾說未來演習會避開漁訓期\n213610\t238302\t那延後到六月到七月那同時也說會編列這個敦青木林的基金齁那但是為什麼現在漁民很懷疑說有時候你國防部之前還要選擇五個月份魚仔回去蒸來這裡延伸齁這很多漁民會認為國防部說話不算話那另外還有多漁民反映說國防部所謂的這個基金齁漁民根本拿不到這個實質的補貼啦齁所以在這裡本縣要向議員們來表達的是說臺灣的漁民絕對管理配合般的國防\n242844\t264031\t但是國家也要給漁民條活路所以因此我要請院長才是請國防部務必遵守當時的承諾超延的時間避開漁訊期才不會衝擊我們當地的這個產業那如果對於產業造成的衝擊也必須要給受影響的這個從業人員必要的補貼請問院長是不是可以做得到\n264831\t292797\t首先謝謝委員一開始針對國家安全國防需求的支持這我們的心情都一樣第二就是國防部他一定有整年度的所謂演習各種的規劃那目前很多的規劃也要因應對岸時常對我們時不時有計劃沒計劃有公告沒公告定期不定期的各種演訓但是我承諾我會跟國防部去了解跟要求在保護漁民的\n294048\t317045\t魚訊期的過程當中應該事先做好整年的規劃事發生之前要做事中要做好跟漁民的溝通事後有任何的補償、賠償的問題一定要確實落實謝謝院長因為其實這個是漁民是很疑惑是說東西都說好了你才知道後悔四月到六月是魚要大出的時候你這個時候再來延伸我聽說過去檢討這個事情謝謝院長\n321969\t347745\t接下來本席來跟針對台東重大的交通跟公共議題來跟院長還有部長來進行討論首先本席有看到台鐵宣布配合小清水溪的這個橋改建的工程完工樹林到台東之間要增加增開兩班這個自強號的列車那東部鐵路量能提升當然是好事情但關鍵的是小清水溪橋就是因為先前颱風被土石流沖斷所以才需要進一步改建\n348405\t374744\t尤其是可見我們東部的鐵路非常非常的脆弱而現在所謂的增加班次其實也只是逐步恢復到過去的這個量能尤其是現在這個增加的這兩班都是中午時間才發生這對我們台東居民這個通勤啊就醫工作需求有點幫助其實是有限那其實除了到台北之外台東到高雄的這個往返列車也是相新急迫的這個需求那經常因為\n376124\t397683\t要到高雄就診或是工作因為我們早班的車太少導致民眾必須提前一天去高雄或者又因為晚班的車趕不上需要多留一天在高雄隔天再去醫院就醫這樣一來一往會增加一到兩天的住宿費的負擔這是非常沉重的一個負擔一直本期具體的要求\n398403\t424850\t增加我們台東往返高雄的這個清晨與深夜的班次我想這有助於民眾到高雄就醫或是工作能夠當日往返降低我們交通的時間跟成本也降低衍生的這個住宿的成本強化我們醫療就醫就診交通的這個可靜性也安排時間讓安排時間更有具有彈性性讓我們照顧我們台東人這個行的正義請問部長這邊是不是可以承諾來研議這個部分\n425770\t445749\t報告委員這個部分確實對台東的鄉親來說其實往南走到高雄是比較近的不管是就醫或就學那這個部分需求確實在那我們會來研議這個班次看怎麼調整不過現在最關鍵的其實是南回的整個路線的改善因為很多的路段目前是單軌委員應該非常清楚\n446209\t459309\t因為是單軌所以他這個車輛的數目沒有辦法大幅的來提升所以南回的軌道的建設我們一樣會往前推進那另外委員剛剛所交代的就是說車次的調整我們來想辦法\n461157\t482130\t謝謝部長承諾願意來研議這件事情那接下來我們就是談到台鐵就是談我們台鐵票價的部分上次在總諮詢的時候院長也有承諾本席說會請交通部盡快的來研議我們華東專屬優惠票價的部分那在隔週交通委員會的時候陳部長也有承諾本席五月底之前會提出\n482910\t496300\t那目前從我們中央社的這個街頭的資訊來看中央部規劃的方案仍然是只有會員制點數加倍那本席簡單的換算一下按照現在目前我們台鐵會員折抵的方式是每消費50元累積1點\n499932\t517426\t兩點折一元就是說等於每消費一百塊才能折抵一元那就是一趴的回饋金那你即便未來花東加倍也就只有兩趴的回饋但問題是這一次的票價調整台北到台東之前還有單趟就漲了一百五十三元來回就是三百零六元\n518166\t540762\t那如果依照我們現行台鐵規劃的花東優惠方案,有兩個嚴重的問題,第一個就是說,用台北到台東來回自強號來換算,你消費金額大概只能折18.7元,你用19塊去算就好了,跟你來回票價調漲306塊來比起來真的是杯水車薪。第二個其實很多長者根本不會使用智慧型手機,\n542083\t570729\t這樣要怎麼去累積點數甚至去折扣這個票價這是本席發現這兩個問題因此從目前台鐵的這個方案來看所謂的優惠恐怕讓花東的居民是無感那也恐怕看得到吃不到那請問院長你覺得目前這樣的優惠方案難道對於東部交通弱勢地位而言是足夠的嗎部長詳細說明部長的方案報告委員您所聽到的加倍送不是只有一倍是好幾倍\n572140\t598631\t你一百塊跟一塊錢對 但是它好幾倍的狀況不會像你所說的只有百分之二不會這麼少這個是台鐵提出來的優惠方案沒有 我覺得你所聽到的加倍但那個倍不是一倍有可能是四倍 可能是五倍因為行政院院長有特別交代說第一要對花東的鄉親要多一些優惠第二我們希望平日跟假日要有彈性所以我們平日的優惠又會更多\n599191\t614403\t謝謝部長的說明部長其實我們在委員會已經討論過這件事還有第二個就是所謂連長者怎麼去使用這個部分都是還是要克服這個部分其實台鐵都有在研議如果到櫃台找我們的同仁他也會幫長者來服務這個會員的連長者都可以克服的\n618166\t634493\t院長,本席為什麼要不斷地爭取花東專屬票價的優惠跟折扣?就是因為你跟西部比起來,西部多元的大空交通工具比起來東部基本上就只有鐵路啦,不然就是昂貴的飛機票更關鍵的是東部的鐵路受到天災影響的敏感度非常高嘛\n634833\t658766\t在安全性上你跟西部比遠遠不足嘛那現在你要用一樣的票價的方式來算我想這東部人不會接受啦這個就是本席為什麼一直提齁那因為我記得好幾個月前本席就呼籲中央說要用花東基金的專款專用的補貼方式給你花東居民的優惠票價那先前本席質詢國發會主委還有城市港部長的時候你們也認為這是可行的方向對吧\n659326\t683348\t那甚至在前兩天連民進黨的委員都呼籲本席的說法認為應該用花東基金來補貼嘛那非常一樣我們交通部現在都還沒有任何具體的作為那本席其實有掌握到其實交通部內部確實有來討論這件事情花東基金給予票價的折扣是一個可行的方向但問題現在是聽說卡在系統來不及跟上我想這個說法本席都沒辦法接受\n683988\t702220\t因為票價你是從二月就規劃要調漲那過去三個月呢難道沒有任何預先的這個配套的準備這部分我請陳部長你必須要扛起責任勇於任事本席在這邊也提出兩個具體的要求請組委員長來採釋第一個交通部必須在台鐵新票價上路之前\n702840\t727856\t規劃好花東優惠票價的方案並且要直接補貼或者是折扣而不是只有民眾無感的會員制點數優惠第二個 交通部必須立刻與國發會來開會討論有關花東基金補貼的事宜並進行提案申請然後作為未來穩定的裁員請院長回應 而且也要請我們相關部會一週內把相關的資料提供到本席的辦公室 院長\n729015\t753788\t謝謝委員 西部的交通選項比較多東部比較少所以我們當然是記憶這樣的一個利基點所以我也請交通部能夠對東部的鄉親做這些票價上面的另外的想法不要說委員 剛剛你如果委員所說只有2%不要說委員來你接受我也覺得不甚合理但是我所知道交通部現在在研擬的絕對不是這個方案給他們一點時間那麼這個一定會在6月\n757578\t781580\t調價之前一定會把這個方案完全確定而且沒有所謂系統銜接的上銜接不上的問題一定要開始適用這個跟委員保證謝謝院長也謝謝部長其實我們本席跟部長的互動其實都很好因為部長也真的夠了解到東部的交通的這個先天的不足的問題那這邊要請部長這邊盡快來演繹那另外講到的道路就是\n782441\t810922\t交通才就是道路的問題喔那一條安全回家的路是台東是東部人數十年來最基本的要求花東快也是當年賴清德總統的競選承諾那就在去年本席跟黨黨立委的共同努力下立法院終於通過了組決議要求交通部盡速推動花東快速公路的興建但非常遺憾上一次我在交通委員會跟陳市長部長您討論花東快可行性評估進度的時候您竟然當面跟我說經濟效益確實\n813583\t831710\t這不就是坐實了之前媒體所說的花東快被推薦的原因就是因為交通部認為經濟效益低嘛那部長的說法東部人絕對沒有辦法接受因為西部這麼多條的快速道路難道每一條的經濟效益都很高嗎更何況現在台中是連一條我連一條都沒有\n833231\t850686\t因此這絕對不應該是政府的理由安全才是最重要的主席長、陳部長本席要很嚴肅的跟兩位表達生命的價值絕對不能用金錢來衡量花蓉花園對東部人的意義就是要挽救無價的這個生命這件事情不是政治議題這個是攸關數十萬東部鄉親生命\n855083\t879955\t安全的民生議題請重要一定要正視不要再把台東當二等公民那現在台九縣一旦發生緊急醫療事件即便救護車全數的搶救也常常因為會錯過黃金救援時間造成太多這個無辜生命因為漫長的交通時間而失去那這就是為什麼台東人要這麼在意發動快我認為我們台東人的命要比我長\n881192\t881852\t經濟效益的評估 當然是\n899727\t925156\t既然有志啦但是我是覺得如果從一小段來看他的效益或許有限如果放大整個台灣我們你要看整個台灣形成一個有效的鐵道系統的話他不只是經濟效益對台灣整體的國家的運量是極然增加的所以我是希望交通部能夠持續的去研議這個事情謝謝院長的承諾 謝謝院長那接下來在公共旅遊部分\n925996\t930338\t因為時間有限,我想之後再來跟我們院長跟部長\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我們有請卓榮泰卓院長請卓院長備詢公務員好\n院長早安 院長 院長記得上次在我們經濟組總質詢的時候本席有跟您表達善意 就是對於去年的這個風災本席向中央爭取台東農產全品項的這個災損救助還有旅宿業者的店家動漲後來行政院也確實聽見我們地方的聲音我想這是行政院跟立法委員之間一個非常理想的互動的方式\n那這一次本席在交通組總質詢一開始想要先跟院長分享一首詩做一個善意的引言這邊也分享給所有我們中央部會的首長這首詩是余光忠先生所寫的《台東》本席讀其中的幾段給院長聽城市比台北是矮一點天比台北卻高得多燈比台北是淡一點心比台北卻亮得多\n人比西岸是西一點 山比西岸勸密得多港比西岸是小一點 海比西岸卻大得多報紙送到是晚一點 太陽起來卻早得多無論地球怎麼轉 台東永遠在前面\n我想這首詩是對台東人來說感觸特別的深厚雖然台東比較遠人比較少不過台東擁有全台灣最美麗的海岸線我想這裡的人也非常的緩解溫暖最重要的是台東人的和善絕對不代表台東人好起伏那對本席而言這首詩的最後兩句就是無論地球怎麼轉台東永遠在前面這就是我從政的初衷只要是為了台東好的事情我一定全力以赴\n我也不怕得罪任何人這也是先前東海岸風電開發案本席一再要求院長跟各部會首長一定要全力阻止跟嚴審因為我絕對不允許\n未經共識的開發案破壞我們台東美麗的環境我們的家園也絕對不允許任何外力破壞台東這片團結善良的家園那今天質詢的一開始本席要先把握機會跟院長反映一件台東重要的時事就是現在是我們鬼頭島的這個漁訓期那但是有很多漁民朋友都跟我反映那國防部公告在五月份在台東屏東一帶的外海有許多這個實彈射擊的演習\n那演習期間因為海域的管制 漁民沒有辦法出海捕魚那這對當地漁民是一個很大的衝擊原來整條都有經營能蓋這個漁訊期就是4月到6月還有9月到11月那其中又以4月到6月的漁獲量最多但光是5月受到演習影響的時間就恐怕高達半個月之久那本席要表達的是說國防自主能力是捍衛國家安全的重要基礎本席絕對支持\n但是這幾年密集的在我們東部海域進行的這個實彈射擊造成漁民生氣很大很大的影響我們例如在2022年光是一到五月中科院跟國軍在台東外海射擊演訓的時間就超過了五十天這引發地方劇烈的反彈那國防部後來也承諾說未來演習會避開漁訓期\n那延後到六月到七月那同時也說會編列這個敦青木林的基金齁那但是為什麼現在漁民很懷疑說有時候你國防部之前還要選擇五個月份魚仔回去蒸來這裡延伸齁這很多漁民會認為國防部說話不算話那另外還有多漁民反映說國防部所謂的這個基金齁漁民根本拿不到這個實質的補貼啦齁所以在這裡本縣要向議員們來表達的是說臺灣的漁民絕對管理配合般的國防\n但是國家也要給漁民條活路所以因此我要請院長才是請國防部務必遵守當時的承諾超延的時間避開漁訊期才不會衝擊我們當地的這個產業那如果對於產業造成的衝擊也必須要給受影響的這個從業人員必要的補貼請問院長是不是可以做得到\n首先謝謝委員一開始針對國家安全國防需求的支持這我們的心情都一樣第二就是國防部他一定有整年度的所謂演習各種的規劃那目前很多的規劃也要因應對岸時常對我們時不時有計劃沒計劃有公告沒公告定期不定期的各種演訓但是我承諾我會跟國防部去了解跟要求在保護漁民的\n魚訊期的過程當中應該事先做好整年的規劃事發生之前要做事中要做好跟漁民的溝通事後有任何的補償、賠償的問題一定要確實落實謝謝院長因為其實這個是漁民是很疑惑是說東西都說好了你才知道後悔四月到六月是魚要大出的時候你這個時候再來延伸我聽說過去檢討這個事情謝謝院長\n接下來本席來跟針對台東重大的交通跟公共議題來跟院長還有部長來進行討論首先本席有看到台鐵宣布配合小清水溪的這個橋改建的工程完工樹林到台東之間要增加增開兩班這個自強號的列車那東部鐵路量能提升當然是好事情但關鍵的是小清水溪橋就是因為先前颱風被土石流沖斷所以才需要進一步改建\n尤其是可見我們東部的鐵路非常非常的脆弱而現在所謂的增加班次其實也只是逐步恢復到過去的這個量能尤其是現在這個增加的這兩班都是中午時間才發生這對我們台東居民這個通勤啊就醫工作需求有點幫助其實是有限那其實除了到台北之外台東到高雄的這個往返列車也是相新急迫的這個需求那經常因為\n要到高雄就診或是工作因為我們早班的車太少導致民眾必須提前一天去高雄或者又因為晚班的車趕不上需要多留一天在高雄隔天再去醫院就醫這樣一來一往會增加一到兩天的住宿費的負擔這是非常沉重的一個負擔一直本期具體的要求\n增加我們台東往返高雄的這個清晨與深夜的班次我想這有助於民眾到高雄就醫或是工作能夠當日往返降低我們交通的時間跟成本也降低衍生的這個住宿的成本強化我們醫療就醫就診交通的這個可靜性也安排時間讓安排時間更有具有彈性性讓我們照顧我們台東人這個行的正義請問部長這邊是不是可以承諾來研議這個部分\n報告委員這個部分確實對台東的鄉親來說其實往南走到高雄是比較近的不管是就醫或就學那這個部分需求確實在那我們會來研議這個班次看怎麼調整不過現在最關鍵的其實是南回的整個路線的改善因為很多的路段目前是單軌委員應該非常清楚\n因為是單軌所以他這個車輛的數目沒有辦法大幅的來提升所以南回的軌道的建設我們一樣會往前推進那另外委員剛剛所交代的就是說車次的調整我們來想辦法\n謝謝部長承諾願意來研議這件事情那接下來我們就是談到台鐵就是談我們台鐵票價的部分上次在總諮詢的時候院長也有承諾本席說會請交通部盡快的來研議我們華東專屬優惠票價的部分那在隔週交通委員會的時候陳部長也有承諾本席五月底之前會提出\n那目前從我們中央社的這個街頭的資訊來看中央部規劃的方案仍然是只有會員制點數加倍那本席簡單的換算一下按照現在目前我們台鐵會員折抵的方式是每消費50元累積1點\n兩點折一元就是說等於每消費一百塊才能折抵一元那就是一趴的回饋金那你即便未來花東加倍也就只有兩趴的回饋但問題是這一次的票價調整台北到台東之前還有單趟就漲了一百五十三元來回就是三百零六元\n那如果依照我們現行台鐵規劃的花東優惠方案,有兩個嚴重的問題,第一個就是說,用台北到台東來回自強號來換算,你消費金額大概只能折18.7元,你用19塊去算就好了,跟你來回票價調漲306塊來比起來真的是杯水車薪。第二個其實很多長者根本不會使用智慧型手機,\n這樣要怎麼去累積點數甚至去折扣這個票價這是本席發現這兩個問題因此從目前台鐵的這個方案來看所謂的優惠恐怕讓花東的居民是無感那也恐怕看得到吃不到那請問院長你覺得目前這樣的優惠方案難道對於東部交通弱勢地位而言是足夠的嗎部長詳細說明部長的方案報告委員您所聽到的加倍送不是只有一倍是好幾倍\n你一百塊跟一塊錢對 但是它好幾倍的狀況不會像你所說的只有百分之二不會這麼少這個是台鐵提出來的優惠方案沒有 我覺得你所聽到的加倍但那個倍不是一倍有可能是四倍 可能是五倍因為行政院院長有特別交代說第一要對花東的鄉親要多一些優惠第二我們希望平日跟假日要有彈性所以我們平日的優惠又會更多\n謝謝部長的說明部長其實我們在委員會已經討論過這件事還有第二個就是所謂連長者怎麼去使用這個部分都是還是要克服這個部分其實台鐵都有在研議如果到櫃台找我們的同仁他也會幫長者來服務這個會員的連長者都可以克服的\n院長,本席為什麼要不斷地爭取花東專屬票價的優惠跟折扣?就是因為你跟西部比起來,西部多元的大空交通工具比起來東部基本上就只有鐵路啦,不然就是昂貴的飛機票更關鍵的是東部的鐵路受到天災影響的敏感度非常高嘛\n在安全性上你跟西部比遠遠不足嘛那現在你要用一樣的票價的方式來算我想這東部人不會接受啦這個就是本席為什麼一直提齁那因為我記得好幾個月前本席就呼籲中央說要用花東基金的專款專用的補貼方式給你花東居民的優惠票價那先前本席質詢國發會主委還有城市港部長的時候你們也認為這是可行的方向對吧\n那甚至在前兩天連民進黨的委員都呼籲本席的說法認為應該用花東基金來補貼嘛那非常一樣我們交通部現在都還沒有任何具體的作為那本席其實有掌握到其實交通部內部確實有來討論這件事情花東基金給予票價的折扣是一個可行的方向但問題現在是聽說卡在系統來不及跟上我想這個說法本席都沒辦法接受\n因為票價你是從二月就規劃要調漲那過去三個月呢難道沒有任何預先的這個配套的準備這部分我請陳部長你必須要扛起責任勇於任事本席在這邊也提出兩個具體的要求請組委員長來採釋第一個交通部必須在台鐵新票價上路之前\n規劃好花東優惠票價的方案並且要直接補貼或者是折扣而不是只有民眾無感的會員制點數優惠第二個 交通部必須立刻與國發會來開會討論有關花東基金補貼的事宜並進行提案申請然後作為未來穩定的裁員請院長回應 而且也要請我們相關部會一週內把相關的資料提供到本席的辦公室 院長\n謝謝委員 西部的交通選項比較多東部比較少所以我們當然是記憶這樣的一個利基點所以我也請交通部能夠對東部的鄉親做這些票價上面的另外的想法不要說委員 剛剛你如果委員所說只有2%不要說委員來你接受我也覺得不甚合理但是我所知道交通部現在在研擬的絕對不是這個方案給他們一點時間那麼這個一定會在6月\n調價之前一定會把這個方案完全確定而且沒有所謂系統銜接的上銜接不上的問題一定要開始適用這個跟委員保證謝謝院長也謝謝部長其實我們本席跟部長的互動其實都很好因為部長也真的夠了解到東部的交通的這個先天的不足的問題那這邊要請部長這邊盡快來演繹那另外講到的道路就是\n交通才就是道路的問題喔那一條安全回家的路是台東是東部人數十年來最基本的要求花東快也是當年賴清德總統的競選承諾那就在去年本席跟黨黨立委的共同努力下立法院終於通過了組決議要求交通部盡速推動花東快速公路的興建但非常遺憾上一次我在交通委員會跟陳市長部長您討論花東快可行性評估進度的時候您竟然當面跟我說經濟效益確實\n這不就是坐實了之前媒體所說的花東快被推薦的原因就是因為交通部認為經濟效益低嘛那部長的說法東部人絕對沒有辦法接受因為西部這麼多條的快速道路難道每一條的經濟效益都很高嗎更何況現在台中是連一條我連一條都沒有\n因此這絕對不應該是政府的理由安全才是最重要的主席長、陳部長本席要很嚴肅的跟兩位表達生命的價值絕對不能用金錢來衡量花蓉花園對東部人的意義就是要挽救無價的這個生命這件事情不是政治議題這個是攸關數十萬東部鄉親生命\n安全的民生議題請重要一定要正視不要再把台東當二等公民那現在台九縣一旦發生緊急醫療事件即便救護車全數的搶救也常常因為會錯過黃金救援時間造成太多這個無辜生命因為漫長的交通時間而失去那這就是為什麼台東人要這麼在意發動快我認為我們台東人的命要比我長\n經濟效益的評估 當然是\n既然有志啦但是我是覺得如果從一小段來看他的效益或許有限如果放大整個台灣我們你要看整個台灣形成一個有效的鐵道系統的話他不只是經濟效益對台灣整體的國家的運量是極然增加的所以我是希望交通部能夠持續的去研議這個事情謝謝院長的承諾 謝謝院長那接下來在公共旅遊部分\n因為時間有限,我想之後再來跟我們院長跟部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:13.753 --> 00:16.734\n好謝謝主席我們有請卓榮泰卓院長請卓院長備詢公務員好\n\n00:27.608 --> 00:49.500\n院長早安院長院長記得上次在我們經濟組總質詢的時候本席有跟您表達善意就是對於去年的這個風災本席向中央爭取台東農產全品項的這個災損救助還有旅宿業者的店家動漲後來行政院也確實聽見我們地方的聲音我想這是行政院跟立法委員之間一個非常理想的互動的方式\n\n00:50.260 --> 01:14.786\n那這一次本席在交通組總質詢一開始想要先跟院長分享一首詩做一個善意的引言這邊也分享給所有我們中央部會的首長這首詩是余光忠先生所寫的《台東》本席讀其中的幾段給院長聽城市比台北是矮一點天比台北卻高得多燈比台北是淡一點心比台北卻亮得多\n\n01:15.706 --> 01:30.834\n人比西岸是西一點山比西岸勸密得多港比西岸是小一點海比西岸卻大得多報紙送到是晚一點太陽起來卻早得多無論地球怎麼轉台東永遠在前面\n\n01:32.059 --> 02:01.026\n我想這首詩是對台東人來說感觸特別的深厚雖然台東比較遠人比較少不過台東擁有全台灣最美麗的海岸線我想這裡的人也非常的緩解溫暖最重要的是台東人的和善絕對不代表台東人好起伏那對本席而言這首詩的最後兩句就是無論地球怎麼轉台東永遠在前面這就是我從政的初衷只要是為了台東好的事情我一定全力以赴\n\n02:01.886 --> 02:12.156\n我也不怕得罪任何人這也是先前東海岸風電開發案本席一再要求院長跟各部會首長一定要全力阻止跟嚴審因為我絕對不允許\n\n02:15.270 --> 02:42.278\n未經共識的開發案破壞我們台東美麗的環境我們的家園也絕對不允許任何外力破壞台東這片團結善良的家園那今天質詢的一開始本席要先把握機會跟院長反映一件台東重要的時事就是現在是我們鬼頭島的這個漁訓期那但是有很多漁民朋友都跟我反映那國防部公告在五月份在台東屏東一帶的外海有許多這個實彈射擊的演習\n\n02:43.138 --> 03:09.333\n那演習期間因為海域的管制漁民沒有辦法出海捕魚那這對當地漁民是一個很大的衝擊原來整條都有經營能蓋這個漁訊期就是4月到6月還有9月到11月那其中又以4月到6月的漁獲量最多但光是5月受到演習影響的時間就恐怕高達半個月之久那本席要表達的是說國防自主能力是捍衛國家安全的重要基礎本席絕對支持\n\n03:10.313 --> 03:30.488\n但是這幾年密集的在我們東部海域進行的這個實彈射擊造成漁民生氣很大很大的影響我們例如在2022年光是一到五月中科院跟國軍在台東外海射擊演訓的時間就超過了五十天這引發地方劇烈的反彈那國防部後來也承諾說未來演習會避開漁訓期\n\n03:33.610 --> 03:58.302\n那延後到六月到七月那同時也說會編列這個敦青木林的基金齁那但是為什麼現在漁民很懷疑說有時候你國防部之前還要選擇五個月份魚仔回去蒸來這裡延伸齁這很多漁民會認為國防部說話不算話那另外還有多漁民反映說國防部所謂的這個基金齁漁民根本拿不到這個實質的補貼啦齁所以在這裡本縣要向議員們來表達的是說臺灣的漁民絕對管理配合般的國防\n\n04:02.844 --> 04:24.031\n但是國家也要給漁民條活路所以因此我要請院長才是請國防部務必遵守當時的承諾超延的時間避開漁訊期才不會衝擊我們當地的這個產業那如果對於產業造成的衝擊也必須要給受影響的這個從業人員必要的補貼請問院長是不是可以做得到\n\n04:24.831 --> 04:52.797\n首先謝謝委員一開始針對國家安全國防需求的支持這我們的心情都一樣第二就是國防部他一定有整年度的所謂演習各種的規劃那目前很多的規劃也要因應對岸時常對我們時不時有計劃沒計劃有公告沒公告定期不定期的各種演訓但是我承諾我會跟國防部去了解跟要求在保護漁民的\n\n04:54.048 --> 05:17.045\n魚訊期的過程當中應該事先做好整年的規劃事發生之前要做事中要做好跟漁民的溝通事後有任何的補償、賠償的問題一定要確實落實謝謝院長因為其實這個是漁民是很疑惑是說東西都說好了你才知道後悔四月到六月是魚要大出的時候你這個時候再來延伸我聽說過去檢討這個事情謝謝院長\n\n05:21.969 --> 05:47.745\n接下來本席來跟針對台東重大的交通跟公共議題來跟院長還有部長來進行討論首先本席有看到台鐵宣布配合小清水溪的這個橋改建的工程完工樹林到台東之間要增加增開兩班這個自強號的列車那東部鐵路量能提升當然是好事情但關鍵的是小清水溪橋就是因為先前颱風被土石流沖斷所以才需要進一步改建\n\n05:48.405 --> 06:14.744\n尤其是可見我們東部的鐵路非常非常的脆弱而現在所謂的增加班次其實也只是逐步恢復到過去的這個量能尤其是現在這個增加的這兩班都是中午時間才發生這對我們台東居民這個通勤啊就醫工作需求有點幫助其實是有限那其實除了到台北之外台東到高雄的這個往返列車也是相新急迫的這個需求那經常因為\n\n06:16.124 --> 06:37.683\n要到高雄就診或是工作因為我們早班的車太少導致民眾必須提前一天去高雄或者又因為晚班的車趕不上需要多留一天在高雄隔天再去醫院就醫這樣一來一往會增加一到兩天的住宿費的負擔這是非常沉重的一個負擔一直本期具體的要求\n\n06:38.403 --> 07:04.850\n增加我們台東往返高雄的這個清晨與深夜的班次我想這有助於民眾到高雄就醫或是工作能夠當日往返降低我們交通的時間跟成本也降低衍生的這個住宿的成本強化我們醫療就醫就診交通的這個可靜性也安排時間讓安排時間更有具有彈性性讓我們照顧我們台東人這個行的正義請問部長這邊是不是可以承諾來研議這個部分\n\n07:05.770 --> 07:25.749\n報告委員這個部分確實對台東的鄉親來說其實往南走到高雄是比較近的不管是就醫或就學那這個部分需求確實在那我們會來研議這個班次看怎麼調整不過現在最關鍵的其實是南回的整個路線的改善因為很多的路段目前是單軌委員應該非常清楚\n\n07:26.209 --> 07:39.309\n因為是單軌所以他這個車輛的數目沒有辦法大幅的來提升所以南回的軌道的建設我們一樣會往前推進那另外委員剛剛所交代的就是說車次的調整我們來想辦法\n\n07:41.157 --> 08:02.130\n謝謝部長承諾願意來研議這件事情那接下來我們就是談到台鐵就是談我們台鐵票價的部分上次在總諮詢的時候院長也有承諾本席說會請交通部盡快的來研議我們華東專屬優惠票價的部分那在隔週交通委員會的時候陳部長也有承諾本席五月底之前會提出\n\n08:02.910 --> 08:16.300\n那目前從我們中央社的這個街頭的資訊來看中央部規劃的方案仍然是只有會員制點數加倍那本席簡單的換算一下按照現在目前我們台鐵會員折抵的方式是每消費50元累積1點\n\n08:19.932 --> 08:37.426\n兩點折一元就是說等於每消費一百塊才能折抵一元那就是一趴的回饋金那你即便未來花東加倍也就只有兩趴的回饋但問題是這一次的票價調整台北到台東之前還有單趟就漲了一百五十三元來回就是三百零六元\n\n08:38.166 --> 09:00.762\n那如果依照我們現行台鐵規劃的花東優惠方案,有兩個嚴重的問題,第一個就是說,用台北到台東來回自強號來換算,你消費金額大概只能折18.7元,你用19塊去算就好了,跟你來回票價調漲306塊來比起來真的是杯水車薪。第二個其實很多長者根本不會使用智慧型手機,\n\n09:02.083 --> 09:30.729\n這樣要怎麼去累積點數甚至去折扣這個票價這是本席發現這兩個問題因此從目前台鐵的這個方案來看所謂的優惠恐怕讓花東的居民是無感那也恐怕看得到吃不到那請問院長你覺得目前這樣的優惠方案難道對於東部交通弱勢地位而言是足夠的嗎部長詳細說明部長的方案報告委員您所聽到的加倍送不是只有一倍是好幾倍\n\n09:32.140 --> 09:58.631\n你一百塊跟一塊錢對但是它好幾倍的狀況不會像你所說的只有百分之二不會這麼少這個是台鐵提出來的優惠方案沒有我覺得你所聽到的加倍但那個倍不是一倍有可能是四倍可能是五倍因為行政院院長有特別交代說第一要對花東的鄉親要多一些優惠第二我們希望平日跟假日要有彈性所以我們平日的優惠又會更多\n\n09:59.191 --> 10:14.403\n謝謝部長的說明部長其實我們在委員會已經討論過這件事還有第二個就是所謂連長者怎麼去使用這個部分都是還是要克服這個部分其實台鐵都有在研議如果到櫃台找我們的同仁他也會幫長者來服務這個會員的連長者都可以克服的\n\n10:18.166 --> 10:34.493\n院長,本席為什麼要不斷地爭取花東專屬票價的優惠跟折扣?就是因為你跟西部比起來,西部多元的大空交通工具比起來東部基本上就只有鐵路啦,不然就是昂貴的飛機票更關鍵的是東部的鐵路受到天災影響的敏感度非常高嘛\n\n10:34.833 --> 10:58.766\n在安全性上你跟西部比遠遠不足嘛那現在你要用一樣的票價的方式來算我想這東部人不會接受啦這個就是本席為什麼一直提齁那因為我記得好幾個月前本席就呼籲中央說要用花東基金的專款專用的補貼方式給你花東居民的優惠票價那先前本席質詢國發會主委還有城市港部長的時候你們也認為這是可行的方向對吧\n\n10:59.326 --> 11:23.348\n那甚至在前兩天連民進黨的委員都呼籲本席的說法認為應該用花東基金來補貼嘛那非常一樣我們交通部現在都還沒有任何具體的作為那本席其實有掌握到其實交通部內部確實有來討論這件事情花東基金給予票價的折扣是一個可行的方向但問題現在是聽說卡在系統來不及跟上我想這個說法本席都沒辦法接受\n\n11:23.988 --> 11:42.220\n因為票價你是從二月就規劃要調漲那過去三個月呢難道沒有任何預先的這個配套的準備這部分我請陳部長你必須要扛起責任勇於任事本席在這邊也提出兩個具體的要求請組委員長來採釋第一個交通部必須在台鐵新票價上路之前\n\n11:42.840 --> 12:07.856\n規劃好花東優惠票價的方案並且要直接補貼或者是折扣而不是只有民眾無感的會員制點數優惠第二個交通部必須立刻與國發會來開會討論有關花東基金補貼的事宜並進行提案申請然後作為未來穩定的裁員請院長回應而且也要請我們相關部會一週內把相關的資料提供到本席的辦公室院長\n\n12:09.015 --> 12:33.788\n謝謝委員西部的交通選項比較多東部比較少所以我們當然是記憶這樣的一個利基點所以我也請交通部能夠對東部的鄉親做這些票價上面的另外的想法不要說委員剛剛你如果委員所說只有2%不要說委員來你接受我也覺得不甚合理但是我所知道交通部現在在研擬的絕對不是這個方案給他們一點時間那麼這個一定會在6月\n\n12:37.578 --> 13:01.580\n調價之前一定會把這個方案完全確定而且沒有所謂系統銜接的上銜接不上的問題一定要開始適用這個跟委員保證謝謝院長也謝謝部長其實我們本席跟部長的互動其實都很好因為部長也真的夠了解到東部的交通的這個先天的不足的問題那這邊要請部長這邊盡快來演繹那另外講到的道路就是\n\n13:02.441 --> 13:30.922\n交通才就是道路的問題喔那一條安全回家的路是台東是東部人數十年來最基本的要求花東快也是當年賴清德總統的競選承諾那就在去年本席跟黨黨立委的共同努力下立法院終於通過了組決議要求交通部盡速推動花東快速公路的興建但非常遺憾上一次我在交通委員會跟陳市長部長您討論花東快可行性評估進度的時候您竟然當面跟我說經濟效益確實\n\n13:33.583 --> 13:51.710\n這不就是坐實了之前媒體所說的花東快被推薦的原因就是因為交通部認為經濟效益低嘛那部長的說法東部人絕對沒有辦法接受因為西部這麼多條的快速道路難道每一條的經濟效益都很高嗎更何況現在台中是連一條我連一條都沒有\n\n13:53.231 --> 14:10.686\n因此這絕對不應該是政府的理由安全才是最重要的主席長、陳部長本席要很嚴肅的跟兩位表達生命的價值絕對不能用金錢來衡量花蓉花園對東部人的意義就是要挽救無價的這個生命這件事情不是政治議題這個是攸關數十萬東部鄉親生命\n\n14:15.083 --> 14:39.955\n安全的民生議題請重要一定要正視不要再把台東當二等公民那現在台九縣一旦發生緊急醫療事件即便救護車全數的搶救也常常因為會錯過黃金救援時間造成太多這個無辜生命因為漫長的交通時間而失去那這就是為什麼台東人要這麼在意發動快我認為我們台東人的命要比我長\n\n14:41.192 --> 14:41.852\n經濟效益的評估當然是\n\n14:59.727 --> 15:25.156\n既然有志啦但是我是覺得如果從一小段來看他的效益或許有限如果放大整個台灣我們你要看整個台灣形成一個有效的鐵道系統的話他不只是經濟效益對台灣整體的國家的運量是極然增加的所以我是希望交通部能夠持續的去研議這個事情謝謝院長的承諾謝謝院長那接下來在公共旅遊部分\n\n15:25.996 --> 15:30.338\n因為時間有限,我想之後再來跟我們院長跟部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":13.753,"end":16.734,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們有請卓榮泰卓院長請卓院長備詢公務員好"},{"start":27.608,"end":49.5,"text":"院長早安 院長 院長記得上次在我們經濟組總質詢的時候本席有跟您表達善意 就是對於去年的這個風災本席向中央爭取台東農產全品項的這個災損救助還有旅宿業者的店家動漲後來行政院也確實聽見我們地方的聲音我想這是行政院跟立法委員之間一個非常理想的互動的方式"},{"start":50.26,"end":74.786,"text":"那這一次本席在交通組總質詢一開始想要先跟院長分享一首詩做一個善意的引言這邊也分享給所有我們中央部會的首長這首詩是余光忠先生所寫的《台東》本席讀其中的幾段給院長聽城市比台北是矮一點天比台北卻高得多燈比台北是淡一點心比台北卻亮得多"},{"start":75.706,"end":90.834,"text":"人比西岸是西一點 山比西岸勸密得多港比西岸是小一點 海比西岸卻大得多報紙送到是晚一點 太陽起來卻早得多無論地球怎麼轉 台東永遠在前面"},{"start":92.059,"end":121.026,"text":"我想這首詩是對台東人來說感觸特別的深厚雖然台東比較遠人比較少不過台東擁有全台灣最美麗的海岸線我想這裡的人也非常的緩解溫暖最重要的是台東人的和善絕對不代表台東人好起伏那對本席而言這首詩的最後兩句就是無論地球怎麼轉台東永遠在前面這就是我從政的初衷只要是為了台東好的事情我一定全力以赴"},{"start":121.886,"end":132.156,"text":"我也不怕得罪任何人這也是先前東海岸風電開發案本席一再要求院長跟各部會首長一定要全力阻止跟嚴審因為我絕對不允許"},{"start":135.27,"end":162.278,"text":"未經共識的開發案破壞我們台東美麗的環境我們的家園也絕對不允許任何外力破壞台東這片團結善良的家園那今天質詢的一開始本席要先把握機會跟院長反映一件台東重要的時事就是現在是我們鬼頭島的這個漁訓期那但是有很多漁民朋友都跟我反映那國防部公告在五月份在台東屏東一帶的外海有許多這個實彈射擊的演習"},{"start":163.138,"end":189.333,"text":"那演習期間因為海域的管制 漁民沒有辦法出海捕魚那這對當地漁民是一個很大的衝擊原來整條都有經營能蓋這個漁訊期就是4月到6月還有9月到11月那其中又以4月到6月的漁獲量最多但光是5月受到演習影響的時間就恐怕高達半個月之久那本席要表達的是說國防自主能力是捍衛國家安全的重要基礎本席絕對支持"},{"start":190.313,"end":210.488,"text":"但是這幾年密集的在我們東部海域進行的這個實彈射擊造成漁民生氣很大很大的影響我們例如在2022年光是一到五月中科院跟國軍在台東外海射擊演訓的時間就超過了五十天這引發地方劇烈的反彈那國防部後來也承諾說未來演習會避開漁訓期"},{"start":213.61,"end":238.302,"text":"那延後到六月到七月那同時也說會編列這個敦青木林的基金齁那但是為什麼現在漁民很懷疑說有時候你國防部之前還要選擇五個月份魚仔回去蒸來這裡延伸齁這很多漁民會認為國防部說話不算話那另外還有多漁民反映說國防部所謂的這個基金齁漁民根本拿不到這個實質的補貼啦齁所以在這裡本縣要向議員們來表達的是說臺灣的漁民絕對管理配合般的國防"},{"start":242.844,"end":264.031,"text":"但是國家也要給漁民條活路所以因此我要請院長才是請國防部務必遵守當時的承諾超延的時間避開漁訊期才不會衝擊我們當地的這個產業那如果對於產業造成的衝擊也必須要給受影響的這個從業人員必要的補貼請問院長是不是可以做得到"},{"start":264.831,"end":292.797,"text":"首先謝謝委員一開始針對國家安全國防需求的支持這我們的心情都一樣第二就是國防部他一定有整年度的所謂演習各種的規劃那目前很多的規劃也要因應對岸時常對我們時不時有計劃沒計劃有公告沒公告定期不定期的各種演訓但是我承諾我會跟國防部去了解跟要求在保護漁民的"},{"start":294.048,"end":317.045,"text":"魚訊期的過程當中應該事先做好整年的規劃事發生之前要做事中要做好跟漁民的溝通事後有任何的補償、賠償的問題一定要確實落實謝謝院長因為其實這個是漁民是很疑惑是說東西都說好了你才知道後悔四月到六月是魚要大出的時候你這個時候再來延伸我聽說過去檢討這個事情謝謝院長"},{"start":321.969,"end":347.745,"text":"接下來本席來跟針對台東重大的交通跟公共議題來跟院長還有部長來進行討論首先本席有看到台鐵宣布配合小清水溪的這個橋改建的工程完工樹林到台東之間要增加增開兩班這個自強號的列車那東部鐵路量能提升當然是好事情但關鍵的是小清水溪橋就是因為先前颱風被土石流沖斷所以才需要進一步改建"},{"start":348.405,"end":374.744,"text":"尤其是可見我們東部的鐵路非常非常的脆弱而現在所謂的增加班次其實也只是逐步恢復到過去的這個量能尤其是現在這個增加的這兩班都是中午時間才發生這對我們台東居民這個通勤啊就醫工作需求有點幫助其實是有限那其實除了到台北之外台東到高雄的這個往返列車也是相新急迫的這個需求那經常因為"},{"start":376.124,"end":397.683,"text":"要到高雄就診或是工作因為我們早班的車太少導致民眾必須提前一天去高雄或者又因為晚班的車趕不上需要多留一天在高雄隔天再去醫院就醫這樣一來一往會增加一到兩天的住宿費的負擔這是非常沉重的一個負擔一直本期具體的要求"},{"start":398.403,"end":424.85,"text":"增加我們台東往返高雄的這個清晨與深夜的班次我想這有助於民眾到高雄就醫或是工作能夠當日往返降低我們交通的時間跟成本也降低衍生的這個住宿的成本強化我們醫療就醫就診交通的這個可靜性也安排時間讓安排時間更有具有彈性性讓我們照顧我們台東人這個行的正義請問部長這邊是不是可以承諾來研議這個部分"},{"start":425.77,"end":445.749,"text":"報告委員這個部分確實對台東的鄉親來說其實往南走到高雄是比較近的不管是就醫或就學那這個部分需求確實在那我們會來研議這個班次看怎麼調整不過現在最關鍵的其實是南回的整個路線的改善因為很多的路段目前是單軌委員應該非常清楚"},{"start":446.209,"end":459.309,"text":"因為是單軌所以他這個車輛的數目沒有辦法大幅的來提升所以南回的軌道的建設我們一樣會往前推進那另外委員剛剛所交代的就是說車次的調整我們來想辦法"},{"start":461.157,"end":482.13,"text":"謝謝部長承諾願意來研議這件事情那接下來我們就是談到台鐵就是談我們台鐵票價的部分上次在總諮詢的時候院長也有承諾本席說會請交通部盡快的來研議我們華東專屬優惠票價的部分那在隔週交通委員會的時候陳部長也有承諾本席五月底之前會提出"},{"start":482.91,"end":496.3,"text":"那目前從我們中央社的這個街頭的資訊來看中央部規劃的方案仍然是只有會員制點數加倍那本席簡單的換算一下按照現在目前我們台鐵會員折抵的方式是每消費50元累積1點"},{"start":499.932,"end":517.426,"text":"兩點折一元就是說等於每消費一百塊才能折抵一元那就是一趴的回饋金那你即便未來花東加倍也就只有兩趴的回饋但問題是這一次的票價調整台北到台東之前還有單趟就漲了一百五十三元來回就是三百零六元"},{"start":518.166,"end":540.762,"text":"那如果依照我們現行台鐵規劃的花東優惠方案,有兩個嚴重的問題,第一個就是說,用台北到台東來回自強號來換算,你消費金額大概只能折18.7元,你用19塊去算就好了,跟你來回票價調漲306塊來比起來真的是杯水車薪。第二個其實很多長者根本不會使用智慧型手機,"},{"start":542.083,"end":570.729,"text":"這樣要怎麼去累積點數甚至去折扣這個票價這是本席發現這兩個問題因此從目前台鐵的這個方案來看所謂的優惠恐怕讓花東的居民是無感那也恐怕看得到吃不到那請問院長你覺得目前這樣的優惠方案難道對於東部交通弱勢地位而言是足夠的嗎部長詳細說明部長的方案報告委員您所聽到的加倍送不是只有一倍是好幾倍"},{"start":572.14,"end":598.631,"text":"你一百塊跟一塊錢對 但是它好幾倍的狀況不會像你所說的只有百分之二不會這麼少這個是台鐵提出來的優惠方案沒有 我覺得你所聽到的加倍但那個倍不是一倍有可能是四倍 可能是五倍因為行政院院長有特別交代說第一要對花東的鄉親要多一些優惠第二我們希望平日跟假日要有彈性所以我們平日的優惠又會更多"},{"start":599.191,"end":614.403,"text":"謝謝部長的說明部長其實我們在委員會已經討論過這件事還有第二個就是所謂連長者怎麼去使用這個部分都是還是要克服這個部分其實台鐵都有在研議如果到櫃台找我們的同仁他也會幫長者來服務這個會員的連長者都可以克服的"},{"start":618.166,"end":634.493,"text":"院長,本席為什麼要不斷地爭取花東專屬票價的優惠跟折扣?就是因為你跟西部比起來,西部多元的大空交通工具比起來東部基本上就只有鐵路啦,不然就是昂貴的飛機票更關鍵的是東部的鐵路受到天災影響的敏感度非常高嘛"},{"start":634.833,"end":658.766,"text":"在安全性上你跟西部比遠遠不足嘛那現在你要用一樣的票價的方式來算我想這東部人不會接受啦這個就是本席為什麼一直提齁那因為我記得好幾個月前本席就呼籲中央說要用花東基金的專款專用的補貼方式給你花東居民的優惠票價那先前本席質詢國發會主委還有城市港部長的時候你們也認為這是可行的方向對吧"},{"start":659.326,"end":683.348,"text":"那甚至在前兩天連民進黨的委員都呼籲本席的說法認為應該用花東基金來補貼嘛那非常一樣我們交通部現在都還沒有任何具體的作為那本席其實有掌握到其實交通部內部確實有來討論這件事情花東基金給予票價的折扣是一個可行的方向但問題現在是聽說卡在系統來不及跟上我想這個說法本席都沒辦法接受"},{"start":683.988,"end":702.22,"text":"因為票價你是從二月就規劃要調漲那過去三個月呢難道沒有任何預先的這個配套的準備這部分我請陳部長你必須要扛起責任勇於任事本席在這邊也提出兩個具體的要求請組委員長來採釋第一個交通部必須在台鐵新票價上路之前"},{"start":702.84,"end":727.856,"text":"規劃好花東優惠票價的方案並且要直接補貼或者是折扣而不是只有民眾無感的會員制點數優惠第二個 交通部必須立刻與國發會來開會討論有關花東基金補貼的事宜並進行提案申請然後作為未來穩定的裁員請院長回應 而且也要請我們相關部會一週內把相關的資料提供到本席的辦公室 院長"},{"start":729.015,"end":753.788,"text":"謝謝委員 西部的交通選項比較多東部比較少所以我們當然是記憶這樣的一個利基點所以我也請交通部能夠對東部的鄉親做這些票價上面的另外的想法不要說委員 剛剛你如果委員所說只有2%不要說委員來你接受我也覺得不甚合理但是我所知道交通部現在在研擬的絕對不是這個方案給他們一點時間那麼這個一定會在6月"},{"start":757.578,"end":781.58,"text":"調價之前一定會把這個方案完全確定而且沒有所謂系統銜接的上銜接不上的問題一定要開始適用這個跟委員保證謝謝院長也謝謝部長其實我們本席跟部長的互動其實都很好因為部長也真的夠了解到東部的交通的這個先天的不足的問題那這邊要請部長這邊盡快來演繹那另外講到的道路就是"},{"start":782.441,"end":810.922,"text":"交通才就是道路的問題喔那一條安全回家的路是台東是東部人數十年來最基本的要求花東快也是當年賴清德總統的競選承諾那就在去年本席跟黨黨立委的共同努力下立法院終於通過了組決議要求交通部盡速推動花東快速公路的興建但非常遺憾上一次我在交通委員會跟陳市長部長您討論花東快可行性評估進度的時候您竟然當面跟我說經濟效益確實"},{"start":813.583,"end":831.71,"text":"這不就是坐實了之前媒體所說的花東快被推薦的原因就是因為交通部認為經濟效益低嘛那部長的說法東部人絕對沒有辦法接受因為西部這麼多條的快速道路難道每一條的經濟效益都很高嗎更何況現在台中是連一條我連一條都沒有"},{"start":833.231,"end":850.686,"text":"因此這絕對不應該是政府的理由安全才是最重要的主席長、陳部長本席要很嚴肅的跟兩位表達生命的價值絕對不能用金錢來衡量花蓉花園對東部人的意義就是要挽救無價的這個生命這件事情不是政治議題這個是攸關數十萬東部鄉親生命"},{"start":855.083,"end":879.955,"text":"安全的民生議題請重要一定要正視不要再把台東當二等公民那現在台九縣一旦發生緊急醫療事件即便救護車全數的搶救也常常因為會錯過黃金救援時間造成太多這個無辜生命因為漫長的交通時間而失去那這就是為什麼台東人要這麼在意發動快我認為我們台東人的命要比我長"},{"start":881.192,"end":881.852,"text":"經濟效益的評估 當然是"},{"start":899.727,"end":925.156,"text":"既然有志啦但是我是覺得如果從一小段來看他的效益或許有限如果放大整個台灣我們你要看整個台灣形成一個有效的鐵道系統的話他不只是經濟效益對台灣整體的國家的運量是極然增加的所以我是希望交通部能夠持續的去研議這個事情謝謝院長的承諾 謝謝院長那接下來在公共旅遊部分"},{"start":925.996,"end":930.338,"text":"因為時間有限,我想之後再來跟我們院長跟部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":77,"blocks":[["黃委員建賓：（9時16分）謝謝主席，有請卓榮泰卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：黃委員好。"],["黃委員建賓：院長早安。院長，記得上次在經濟組總質詢的時候，本席有跟您表達善意，就是對於去年的風災，本席向中央爭取臺東農產全品項的災損救助以及旅宿業者的電價凍漲，後來行政院也確實聽見我們地方的聲音，我想這是行政院跟立法委員之間一個非常理想的互動方式。這一次本席在交通組總質詢一開始想要先跟院長分享一首詩，做一個善意的引言，這邊也分享給所有中央部會的首長，這首詩是余光中先生所寫的「台東」，本席讀其中的幾段給院長聽：「城比台北是矮一點，天比台北卻高得多；燈比台北是淡一點，星比台北卻亮得多……人比西岸是稀一點，山比西岸卻密得多；港比西岸是小一點，海比西岸卻大得多；報紙送到是晚一點，太陽起來卻早得多。無論地球怎麼轉，台東永遠在前面。」這首詩對臺東人來說感觸特別地深，雖然臺東比較遠、人比較少，不過臺東擁有全臺灣最美麗的海岸線，這裡的人也非常地團結、溫暖，最重要的是，臺東人的和善絕對不代表臺東人好欺負。對本席而言，這首詩的最後兩句「無論地球怎麼轉，台東永遠在前面」，這就是我從政的初衷，只要是為了臺東好的事情，我一定全力以赴，我也不怕得罪任何人。這也是先前東海岸風電開發案，本席一再要求院長跟各部會首長一定要全力阻止跟嚴審，因為我絕對不允許未經共識的開發案破壞我們臺東美麗的環境、我們的家園，也絕對不允許任何外力破壞臺東這片團結、善良的家園。","今天質詢的一開始，本席要先把握機會跟院長反映一件臺東重要的時事，就是現在是鬼頭刀的漁汛期，但是有很多漁民朋友都跟我反映，國防部公告5月份在臺東、屏東一帶的外海有許多實彈射擊的演習，演習期間，因為海域的管制，漁民沒有辦法出海捕魚，這對當地漁民是一個很大的衝擊，因為我們的鬼頭刀一年有2次漁汛期，就是4月到6月及9月到11月，其中又以4月到6月的漁獲量最多，但光是5月受到演習影響的時間恐怕就高達半個月之久。本席要表達的是，國防自主能力是捍衛國家安全的重要基礎，本席絕對支持。但是這幾年密集地在東部海域進行實彈射擊，造成漁民生計很大的影響，例如在2022年光是1到5月，中科院和國軍在臺東外海射擊演訓的時間就超過了50天，這引起地方劇烈的反彈。國防部後來也承諾未來演習會避開漁汛期，延後到6月至7月，同時也會編列敦親睦鄰基金。但是漁民不解為何國防部現在又選在5月份漁獲產季進行演習，很多漁民認為國防部說話不算話，另外還有很多漁民反映根本無法從敦親睦鄰基金拿到實質的補貼。在此，本席向院長表達，臺東的漁民絕對願意配合我們的國防，但是國家也要給漁民一條活路，因此我要請院長裁示，請國防部務必遵守當時的承諾，操演的時間避開漁汛期，才不會衝擊當地的產業。如果對產業造成衝擊，也必須給予受影響的從業人員必要的補貼，請問院長是否做得到？"],["卓院長榮泰：首先，謝謝委員一開始針對國家安全、國防需求的支持，我們的心情都一樣。第二，國防部一定有整年度演習的各種規劃，目前很多的規劃也要因應對岸時常有計畫、沒計畫、有公告、沒公告、定期以及不定期對我們的各種演訓，但是我承諾會向國防部瞭解及要求，在保護漁民漁汛期的過程中，應該事先做好整年的規劃，事中要做好跟漁民的溝通，事後有任何的補償或賠償的問題一定要確實落實。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝院長，漁民是很疑惑當時都講好了，而4月至6月是漁獲產季，這個時候卻來演習，真的會造成困擾。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我會再來檢討這個事情。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝院長。接下來，本席針對臺東重大的交通和觀光議題來跟院長和部長進行討論。首先，本席看到臺鐵宣布配合小清水溪橋改建工程完工，樹林到臺東之間增開2班自強號列車，東部鐵路量能提升當然是好事，但關鍵的是，小清水溪橋其實是因先前颱風被土石流沖斷，所以才需要進一步改建，由此可見東部的鐵路非常脆弱。所謂的增加班次，也只是回復到過去的量能，尤其增加的2個班次都是在中午時間才發車，這對臺東居民通勤、就醫及工作需求的幫助有限。其實除了到臺北之外，臺東到高雄的往返列車也是相形急迫的需求，因為早班的車次太少了，民眾至高雄就診或工作，經常需要提早一天抵達高雄，或又因為晚班的車趕不上，需要多留一天在高雄，隔天再至醫院就醫，這樣一來一往，會增加一至二天住宿費的負擔，這是非常沈重的。因此，本席具體要求，增加臺東往返高雄清晨和深夜的班次，這有助於民眾到高雄就醫或工作可以當日往返，降低交通的時間和成本，也降低衍生的住宿成本，強化醫療就醫、就診的交通可近性，讓安排時間也具有彈性，照顧臺東人行的正義，請部長是否可以承諾來研議這個部分？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，對臺東的鄉親來說，其實往南走到高雄是比較近的，不管是就醫或是就學，這個部分的需求確實存在，我們會來研議班次如何調整。現在最關鍵的其實是南迴路線的改善，因為很多路段目前是單軌，委員應該非常清楚，所以車輛的數目沒辦法大幅地提升。南迴軌道的建設一樣會往前推進，另外委員剛所交代的車次調整，我們來想辦法。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝部長承諾願意來研議這件事情。接下來，我們來談臺鐵票價部分，上次在總質詢的時候，院長也有承諾本席會請交通部儘快研議花東專屬優惠票價，在隔週交通委員會的時候，陳部長也有承諾本席5月底前會提出，目前從中央社揭露的資訊來看，交通部規劃的方案，仍然是只有會員制點數加倍，本席簡單地換算一下，按照目前臺鐵會員折抵的方式是每消費50元累積1點，兩點折1元，等於每消費100塊才能折抵1元，那就是1%的回饋金，即便未來花東加倍也就只有2%的回饋，但問題是這一次的票價調整，臺北到臺東自強號單趟就漲了153元，來回就是306元。如果依照現行臺鐵規劃的花東優惠方案，有兩個嚴重的問題，第一個、用臺北到臺東自強號來回換算，消費金額大概只能折18.7元，用19元去算好了，跟來回票價調整306塊比起來，真的是杯水車薪。第二個、其實很多長者根本不會使用智慧型手機，這樣要怎麼去累積點數，甚至折扣票價？這是本席發現的兩個問題。因此，從目前臺鐵的這個方案來看，所謂的優惠恐怕讓花東居民無感，也恐怕看得到、吃不到。請問院長，你覺得目前這樣的優惠方案，難道對於東部交通弱勢的地位而言，是足夠的嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長詳細說明，以部長的方案、想法。"],["陳部長世凱：您所聽到的加倍送，不是只有1倍，而是好幾倍。"],["黃委員建賓：可是100元才折1塊錢！"],["陳部長世凱：但是好幾倍的狀況，不會像您所說的只有2%，不會這麼少。"],["黃委員建賓：這個是臺鐵提出來的優惠方案。"],["陳部長世凱：不！委員所聽到的加倍，但那個倍不是1倍，有可能是4倍，也有可能是5倍，因為行政院院長有特別交代：第一、對花東的鄉親要多一些優惠；第二、我們希望平日跟假日要有彈性，所以平日的優惠又會更多，假日可能沒有那麼多。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝部長的說明。部長，其實我們在委員會已經討論過這件事，還有第二個就是所謂年長者怎麼去使用這個部分，都還是要克服。"],["陳部長世凱：這個部分其實臺鐵都有在研議，如果到櫃臺找我們的同仁，他們也會幫長者來服務、處理會員點數，這沒有問題，都可以克服。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝部長。院長，本席為什麼要不斷爭取花東專屬票價的優惠跟折扣？因為跟西部多元的大眾交通工具比起來，東部基本上就只有鐵路，不然就是昂貴的飛機票，更關鍵的是東部鐵路受到天災影響的敏感度非常高，在安全性上跟西部比遠遠不足。現在卻要用一樣的票價方式來算，我想東部人不會接受，這個就是本席為什麼一直提的。我記得好幾個月前本席就呼籲中央，要用花東基金專款專用的補貼方式，給予花東居民優惠票價，先前本席質詢國發會主委還有陳世凱部長，你們也認為這是可行的方向，甚至在前兩天連民進黨的委員都呼籲本席的說法，認為應該用花東基金來補貼，但非常遺憾，交通部現在都還沒有任何具體的作為。本席其實有掌握到交通部內部確實有討論這件事情，花東基金給予票價折扣是一個可行的方向，但現在聽說問題是卡在系統來不及跟上，本席沒辦法接受這個說法，因為票價是從2月就規劃要調漲，過去3個月難道沒有任何預先準備的配套嗎？這部分請陳部長必須要扛起責任、勇於任事。本席在這邊也提出兩個具體的要求，請卓院長來裁示：第一個、交通部必須在臺鐵新票價上路之前規劃好花東優惠票價方案，並且要直接補貼或者折扣，而不是只有民眾無感的會員制點數優惠；第二個、交通部必須立刻與國發會來開會，討論有關花東基金補貼的事宜，並進行提案申請，作為未來穩定的財源。請院長回應而且也要請交通部一週內把相關資料提供到本席辦公室。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。西部的交通選項比較多，東部比較少，我們當然是基於這樣的利基點，所以我也請交通部能夠對東部鄉親做這些票價上另外的想法。如果是剛剛委員所說只有2%，不要說委員難以接受，我也覺得不甚合理。"],["黃委員建賓：你也覺得這不合理，對吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：但是我所知道交通部現在在研擬的絕對不是這個方案，給他們一點時間，一定會在6月調價之前把這個方案完全確定，而且沒有所謂系統銜接得上、銜接不上的問題，一定要開始適用，跟委員保證。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝院長，也謝謝部長。其實本席跟部長的互動一直都很好，因為部長也能夠了解到東部交通先天不足的問題，這邊要請部長儘快來研議。","另外，交通就是道路的問題，一條安全回家的路是臺東、東部人數十年來最基本的要求，花東快也是當年賴清德總統的競選承諾，就在去年本席跟黨團立委的共同努力下，立法院終於通過了主決議，要求交通部儘速推動花東快速公路的興建。但非常遺憾，上一次我在交通委員會跟陳世凱部長討論花東快可行性評估進度的時候，你竟然當面跟我說：經濟效益確實不高。這不就是坐實之前媒體所說的，花東快被退件的原因就是因為交通部認為經濟效益低。而部長的說法，東部人絕對沒有辦法接受，所以西部這麼多條的快速道路，難道每一條的經濟效益都很高嗎？更何況現在臺東是連一條都沒有，因此這絕對不應該是政府的理由，安全才是最重要的。","卓院長、陳部長，本席要很嚴肅地跟兩位表達，生命的價值絕對不應該用金錢來衡量，花東快對東部人的意義就是要挽救無價的生命，這件事情不是政治議題，這個是攸關數十萬東部鄉親生命安全的民生議題，請中央一定要正視，不要再把臺東當二等公民。現在台9線一旦發生緊急醫療事件，即便救護車全速搶救，也常常因為錯過黃金救援時間，造成太多無辜生命因為漫長的交通時間而失去，這就是為什麼臺東人要這麼在意花東快，我們都說我們臺東人的命要比路長！本席要請院長裁示，必須要求交通部遵守立法院的主決議，並遵守賴總統當時的承諾，儘快提出花東快的評估報告，推動後續的興建，請問院長是不是可以做得到？"],["卓院長榮泰：經濟效益的評估當然是其來有自，但是我覺得如果從一小段來看，它的效益或許有限，如果放大整個臺灣，我們鳥瞰整個臺灣形成一個有效的鐵道系統的話，它不只是經濟效益，對臺灣整體國家的運量當然是增加的，所以我是希望交通部能夠持續去研議這個事情。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝院長的承諾，謝謝院長。接下來，在觀光旅宿部分，因為時間有限，我想之後再來跟院長跟部長討論，再一次謝謝院長和部長，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝黃委員、謝謝卓院長。","下一位請魯明哲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-10","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","陳超明","黃建賓","魯明哲","顏寬恒","陳玉珍","林倩綺","林沛祥","黃國昌","林國成","李昆澤","林月琴","賴士葆","黃秀芳","王正旭","盧縣一","李彥秀","楊曜","麥玉珍","廖偉翔","陳菁徽","林淑芬","馬文君","邱若華","蘇巧慧"],"page_start":117,"meetingDate":["2025-05-06"],"gazette_id":"1144201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144201_00004","1144201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第10次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1144201_00004"}}}