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735.136, \"end\": 735.156, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 735.156, \"end\": 735.176, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 735.176, \"end\": 735.296, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 735.296, \"end\": 735.476, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 735.476, \"end\": 735.496, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 735.496, \"end\": 735.736, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 735.736, \"end\": 735.756, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 742.879, \"end\": 760.522, \"text\": \"所以 院長 我希望你不要阻擋這些入法這些入法對勞工是只有一個防範用法律概念 我們的意識實現已經一定一直在實現這點我不要跟你辯論我也不會懷疑 我們一定有這樣的心\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 742.879, \"end\": 743.039, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 743.039, \"end\": 743.38, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 743.38, \"end\": 744.301, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", 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951.292, \"end\": 951.432, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 951.432, \"end\": 951.972, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 951.972, \"end\": 955.013, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 955.013, \"end\": 956.433, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 956.433, \"end\": 956.573, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 956.573, \"end\": 956.873, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"登\", \"start\": 956.873, \"end\": 957.194, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"記\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 957.194, \"end\": 957.314, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 957.314, \"end\": 958.054, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 958.054, \"end\": 958.234, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 958.234, \"end\": 958.754, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"李\", \"start\": 958.754, \"end\": 959.034, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"昆\", \"start\": 959.034, \"end\": 959.314, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"哲\", \"start\": 959.314, \"end\": 959.334, \"score\": 0.002}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,693 --> 00:00:24,168\n賴世保委員請準備報言會現在在我們一場二樓旁邊來自東吳大學政治系的同學們熱情歡迎你們我們掌聲歡迎好謝謝院長請卓院長勞動部紅部長麻煩請卓院長勞動部備選\n\n2\n00:00:40,846 --> 00:01:08,103\n好院長最近辛苦了大家都辛苦了台灣政紅全球的關稅還有國內的政治紛爭這等等可以說啊蠟燭兩頭燒啦那感同身受也了解院長你的辛勞\n\n3\n00:01:09,892 --> 00:01:12,617\n那我還是要建議院長要拋開政治\n\n4\n00:01:17,489 --> 00:01:45,532\n多了解民生還有給你一個建議先安內再攬外未來因為台灣要往前走我也知道院長你是想要做事但是全球這整個打壓以及大罷免等等這些讓你確確實實左院長是真的蠟燭量多少但是我還是\n\n5\n00:01:46,499 --> 00:02:11,429\n要給你一個免利你的辛苦當然為了台灣人民要往前走這一點我想院長你同意吧謝謝委員只要內部能夠安定我們就有全民的力量可以往外走所以我也希望支持我們現在提出的特別條例一起為產業做支持讓人民安心我一向啊我們都非常理性的\n\n6\n00:02:12,566 --> 00:02:21,996\n該支持的我們會支持不該支持的我們會堅持到底這是我特別跟院長說明一下另外一個當然我問這個話題也就是身為勞工經濟部長\n\n7\n00:02:27,708 --> 00:02:47,478\n他講如果看不下去就可以離開這種說法身為一個勞工我還有了解地方勞工的心聲我坦白講緩談之大特別下情善打讓卓院長了解這些\n\n8\n00:02:48,305 --> 00:03:11,565\n我說從卓院長執政到現在你講話從來沒有這樣挑釁不尊重勞工的沒有可是我沒有想到一個資方的經濟部長他會講這種話說實在我感覺到非常難過跟非常可悲但院長我為什麼要下請上達\n\n9\n00:03:13,153 --> 00:03:34,156\n這個就要特別讓你留意當然不是你叫他這樣講可是確實會影響整個勞工這些士氣跟對我們政府走內閣的看法所以我不曉得左院長你認為他講這句話妥當不妥當\n\n10\n00:03:35,973 --> 00:03:56,115\n這句話國務部長講出之後已經引起社會的注意也很多勞工朋友一定會感受到受到尊重所以我跟國務部長有談過我們馬上總之結束之後馬上會利用適當的時間儘快去跟勞工朋友表達我們具體的關心以及對國營事業同仁夥伴們\n\n11\n00:03:56,696 --> 00:04:16,611\n我們用拒絕行動來支持他們謝謝委員的提醒這點啊因為卓院長你知道他你的內閣講錯一句話帳是算在你這裡但是卓院長講錯一句話是把帳算到賴總統所以要特別耶穌小心\n\n12\n00:04:17,614 --> 00:04:42,643\n既然立法委員理性提醒你這些我希望卓院長要刻不容緩盡是地讓勞工釋懷或許他是無意但是人家聽者有心所以這些我身為一個勞工我要代替一千多萬的勞工跟郭部長抗議這些這叫做什麼灌勞板\n\n13\n00:04:43,741 --> 00:04:59,478\n這不好的燕子我是良心的建議啦另外一個啊我就感覺到很奇怪郭部長啊他問題一大堆那最近他又請AIT吃飯的時候這裡面有兩個問題現在大家都在吵啊\n\n14\n00:05:03,763 --> 00:05:17,847\n那你沒有你就要講清楚啊那做的事情我剛才已經講過卓院長你是要蓋瓜成熟現在人家就把所有格言裡面所作所為都把它記到\n\n15\n00:05:19,548 --> 00:05:41,541\n郭部長那郭部長他這種做法他到底是自用工會請AIT或者他自己掏腰包現在都講不清楚現在勞工也一直在講你起床也問卓院長他對這件事情什麼看法如果是自己\n\n16\n00:05:42,725 --> 00:05:59,215\n他自己出錢那你也拿出來講清楚不要讓勞工都覺得郭志輝已經灌老闆了那然後灌老闆就應該這樣嗎所以我是覺得我還是要第二個建議我們卓院長\n\n17\n00:06:00,373 --> 00:06:24,871\n有就有沒有就沒有該解釋的要把花票講清楚說明白不要經濟服務講一套他自己講一套但是不要忘了郭部長的長官就是卓院長那卓院長你要不要把這件事情把它理清楚也不要產生勞工跟各界對他有一種誤解我蠻擔心的\n\n18\n00:06:26,272 --> 00:06:49,136\n當然部長可以隨時走可是卓院長不要忘記你現在是中華民國最高的行政所長不能因為你的格言這樣來害到你對這件事情的執政的負面院長你認為怎麼樣根據週刊報導裡面有提到郭部長也有說明他對外有說明\n\n19\n00:06:49,855 --> 00:07:07,337\n如果那個參會的費用是郭部長自己來支應的話那我想就沒有什麼特別的問題他已經對外這麼說明過了好院長你願不願意把這件事情把它釐清楚讓各界讓勞工不要把它說我的灌勞榜又出逼囉院長\n\n20\n00:07:08,217 --> 00:07:10,059\n你很多事情是有所為有所不為啦\n\n21\n00:07:30,469 --> 00:07:31,830\n這個我是第二個特別跟你建議啦\n\n22\n00:07:46,155 --> 00:08:06,011\n那另外一個我可能就要跟你談現在勞工的這些勞保福利的問題我們要感謝左院長執政的時候民進黨執政的時候連續幾年來確實在撥補方面以及該做的你們都有做\n\n23\n00:08:06,551 --> 00:08:33,070\n所以大家鬧得風風雨雨啊也就是勞保破產的問題在你們撥補的情況之下確實是延後很多可是整個這些架構的問題還是要改善所以我在這裡很簡單直接就特別請教我們卓院長到底你對於撥補有在做\n\n24\n00:08:34,131 --> 00:08:48,223\n那勞保條例的66條是把它加上去法定撥補但是在這裡院長我們沒有要你固定要撥補多少就是沒人要撥補但是69條\n\n25\n00:08:51,166 --> 00:09:14,238\n69條就是政府你曾經講過很多次政府要負起這個責任有沒有可能就讓勞工很明確的就是入伙那本席也跟幾位我們同事都已經有提66條的修訂就是固定法定要撥補撥補多少金額由行政院去做決定\n\n26\n00:09:14,858 --> 00:09:37,498\n第二個69條就是確定給付也就是政府要確定給付這已經幾十年來修華當中都認為小事可是這一千一百多個勞工的情況之下給他一個入華的保障這是對勞工是一個安定的院長你針對這些你有什麼看法\n\n27\n00:09:38,178 --> 00:09:53,626\n修法的問題請部長說明我跟委員報告過去幾年來我們包括疫後的特別條例一共撥補勞保3800億我想從以前到現在到以後歷任的執政者都不會把勞工的問題置之不理\n\n28\n00:09:54,127 --> 00:10:13,501\n我們都會把勞工當作國家重要的資產我們對勞保的最終條件每一任的政府未來也是一樣一定會承擔起來修法的問題部長可以說明我的理由很簡單你同不同意入華保障所有的勞工我跟委員報告\n\n29\n00:10:14,942 --> 00:10:41,178\n勞保是國家來辦的社會保險所以不管入不入法政府都會來負擔最終責任是好那我們也會來視政府的財政狀況來持續的辦理撥補那我知道委員其實也有提案就是說關於最終責任的入法的部分我們是覺得這部分第一個是尊重第二個我們也覺得是可以有討論的空間是來燕子\n\n30\n00:10:42,096 --> 00:10:50,757\n一句話你反對入華以否我只要你聽你這句話因為你們本來都有在做啊\n\n31\n00:10:51,715 --> 00:11:16,950\n不管未來是誰執政你只是對勞工有保障但是院長我特別要提醒你從來的行政院長認為這都是小事但是我必須要跟院長建議以重心長勞工需要的就是法令的保障他知道你們有在做但是你同不同意入法的當中同不同意\n\n32\n00:11:17,557 --> 00:11:24,289\n入法可以一步一步的來研議但是我跟委員報告政府跟勞工的關係這種終身的保障\n\n33\n00:11:25,452 --> 00:11:51,385\n我只在乎一張契約你們不會放棄對不對我只不在乎一張契約這個契約很重要我們終身保證職位老公要的不多老公是一個寶藏跟一個肝臟這個當然你們都有在做啦都具體做到所以這些東西當然是替勞工去爭取這些入華是對他們一個寶藏\n\n34\n00:11:53,886 --> 00:12:15,756\n保障因為你們都有在做確實你們也有在做這個我到哪邊跟勞工宣導我說不管任何一個政黨民進黨有做的我就支持他民進黨沒有做的我當然批評他可是院長我已經跟你講這件事情你們有做我到哪邊宣導我就跟他講民進黨在執政的時候撥補是撥補給其他政黨還多這個我都幫你們講話你可以去問勞工啊\n\n35\n00:12:22,879 --> 00:12:40,522\n所以院長我希望你不要阻擋這些入法這些入法對勞工是只有一個防範用法律概念我們的意識實現已經一定一直在實現這點我不要跟你辯論我也不會懷疑我們一定有這樣的心\n\n36\n00:12:41,022 --> 00:12:56,036\n所以修法的問題入法的問題可以慢慢去研究但是我們每年該做的會一定把它做到從過去到現在都如此這個入法這個入法是對勞工一個切身的保障其實你們有在做你們怕什麼入法\n\n37\n00:12:56,856 --> 00:13:25,171\n這個也跟中華民國的任何權利都沒有關這是勞工的權利所以這點我要建議這個卓院長在這個部分你要很明確的來支持因為修法當然有一定步驟也不是說今天馬上做就馬上做但是我不希望行政單位來反對這個就不好啦這個就不好所以卓院長好另外一個我想那個\n\n38\n00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:40,640\n其實警消組工會啊這個是一個大問題但是這裡面有兩點一就是罷工前二就是植栽的確保在這個部分我還是希望卓院長\n\n39\n00:13:41,843 --> 00:14:03,077\n每天這樣吵倒不如好好研究一下所以過去教師也是不能組工會那那個時候我很清楚到最後他們沒有罷工錢當然這裡面有一部分的人是公務人員是用公務人員服務法這個都可以談所以我還是要拜託卓院長在這個\n\n40\n00:14:04,998 --> 00:14:32,117\n確確實實主公會並非洪水猛獸所以好好去談一下不要踩得那麼硬我在想洪部長你站在保障勞工的立場你也不會反對但是確實這裡面有很多值得大家去商討的大家去商討所以我還是再度建議卓院長在這個部分就大家要共同跨部會的去研究到底\n\n41\n00:14:33,243 --> 00:14:54,244\n成立以否有什麼利弊要去做分析以現在政府的心態他好像主公會就是洪水門座這沒有必要的我們說實在這沒必要這些東西都是我們內政我們內部的問題所以都沒有牽涉從警消人員的福利我們來加強著手\n\n42\n00:14:54,804 --> 00:15:03,412\n那麼景蕭因為他是有公法上特殊的職務關係我們希望如果能夠走協會的方式一同來並同協會現在就有嘛協會就沒有華澤嘛來強化協會的功能這個是目前認為比較可行那些穩定社會的必須我是以重心長\n\n43\n00:15:14,622 --> 00:15:35,289\n在這個部分就是公務人員服務法以及工會勞動商法這兩者之間當然還有一件但是我建議你就大家坐下來好好談這樣總是有一天會解決那大多數的聲音是認為說保持現狀那這個也是一個解決之道啊\n\n44\n00:15:35,609 --> 00:15:59,334\n不要每一次就覺得我們卓內閣都是在反對這一點我是真的啦但是請委員協助我們好好地來溝通對啦這個溝通一下才會解決啦好不好院長好部長好謝謝林國成委員質詢謝謝卓院長勞動部長備詢好謝謝接下來登記第二號第三號李昆哲\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n693\t24168\t賴世保委員請準備報言會現在在我們一場二樓旁邊來自東吳大學政治系的同學們熱情歡迎你們 我們掌聲歡迎好 謝謝院長 請卓院長勞動部紅部長麻煩請卓院長勞動部備選\n40846\t68103\t好 院長最近辛苦了大家都辛苦了台灣政紅全球的關稅還有國內的政治紛爭這等等可以說啊蠟燭兩頭燒啦那感同身受也了解院長你的辛勞\n69892\t72617\t那我還是要建議院長要拋開政治\n77489\t105532\t多了解民生還有給你一個建議先安內再攬外未來因為台灣要往前走我也知道 院長你是想要做事但是全球這整個打壓以及大罷免等等這些讓你確確實實左院長是真的蠟燭量多少但是我還是\n106499\t131429\t要給你一個免利你的辛苦當然為了台灣人民要往前走這一點我想 院長你同意吧謝謝委員 只要內部能夠安定我們就有全民的力量可以往外走所以我也希望支持我們現在提出的特別條例一起為產業做支持 讓人民安心我一向啊 我們都非常理性的\n132566\t141996\t該支持的我們會支持不該支持的我們會堅持到底這是我特別跟院長說明一下另外一個當然我問這個話題也就是身為勞工經濟部長\n147708\t167478\t他講如果看不下去就可以離開這種說法身為一個勞工我還有了解地方勞工的心聲我坦白講緩談之大特別下情善打讓卓院長了解這些\n168305\t191565\t我說從卓院長執政到現在你講話從來沒有這樣挑釁不尊重勞工的 沒有可是我沒有想到一個資方的經濟部長他會講這種話說實在我感覺到非常難過跟非常可悲但院長我為什麼要下請上達\n193153\t214156\t這個就要特別讓你留意當然不是你叫他這樣講可是確實會影響整個勞工這些士氣跟對我們政府走內閣的看法所以我不曉得 左院長你認為他講這句話 妥當 不妥當\n215973\t236115\t這句話國務部長講出之後已經引起社會的注意也很多勞工朋友一定會感受到受到尊重所以我跟國務部長有談過我們馬上總之結束之後馬上會利用適當的時間儘快去跟勞工朋友表達我們具體的關心以及對國營事業同仁夥伴們\n236696\t256611\t我們用拒絕行動來支持他們謝謝委員的提醒這點啊因為卓院長你知道他你的內閣講錯一句話帳是算在你這裡但是卓院長講錯一句話是把帳算到賴總統所以要特別耶穌小心\n257614\t282643\t既然立法委員理性提醒你這些我希望卓院長要刻不容緩 盡是地讓勞工釋懷或許他是無意但是人家聽者有心所以這些我身為一個勞工我要代替一千多萬的勞工跟郭部長抗議這些這叫做什麼 灌勞板\n283741\t299478\t這不好的燕子我是良心的建議啦另外一個啊我就感覺到很奇怪郭部長啊他問題一大堆那最近他又請AIT吃飯的時候這裡面有兩個問題現在大家都在吵啊\n303763\t317847\t那你沒有你就要講清楚啊那做的事情我剛才已經講過卓院長你是要蓋瓜成熟現在人家就把所有格言裡面所作所為都把它記到\n319548\t341541\t郭部長那郭部長他這種做法他到底是自用工會請AIT或者他自己掏腰包現在都講不清楚現在勞工也一直在講你起床也問卓院長他對這件事情什麼看法如果是自己\n342725\t359215\t他自己出錢那你也拿出來講清楚不要讓勞工都覺得郭志輝已經灌老闆了那然後灌老闆就應該這樣嗎所以我是覺得我還是要第二個建議我們卓院長\n360373\t384871\t有就有 沒有就沒有該解釋的要把花票講清楚說明白不要經濟服務講一套他自己講一套但是不要忘了郭部長的長官就是卓院長那卓院長你要不要把這件事情把它理清楚也不要產生勞工跟各界對他有一種誤解我蠻擔心的\n386272\t409136\t當然部長可以隨時走可是卓院長不要忘記你現在是中華民國最高的行政所長不能因為你的格言這樣來害到你對這件事情的執政的負面院長你認為怎麼樣根據週刊報導裡面有提到郭部長也有說明他對外有說明\n409855\t427337\t如果那個參會的費用是郭部長自己來支應的話那我想就沒有什麼特別的問題他已經對外這麼說明過了好 院長你願不願意把這件事情把它釐清楚讓各界 讓勞工不要把它說我的灌勞榜又出逼囉 院長\n428217\t430059\t你很多事情是有所為有所不為啦\n450469\t451830\t這個我是第二個特別跟你建議啦\n466155\t486011\t那另外一個我可能就要跟你談現在勞工的這些勞保福利的問題我們要感謝左院長執政的時候民進黨執政的時候連續幾年來確實在撥補方面以及該做的你們都有做\n486551\t513070\t所以大家鬧得風風雨雨啊也就是勞保破產的問題在你們撥補的情況之下確實是延後很多可是整個這些架構的問題還是要改善所以我在這裡很簡單直接就特別請教我們卓院長到底你對於撥補有在做\n514131\t528223\t那勞保條例的66條是把它加上去法定撥補但是在這裡 院長我們沒有要你固定要撥補多少就是沒人要撥補但是69條\n531166\t554238\t69條就是政府你曾經講過很多次政府要負起這個責任有沒有可能就讓勞工很明確的就是入伙那本席也跟幾位我們同事都已經有提66條的修訂就是固定法定要撥補撥補多少金額由行政院去做決定\n554858\t577498\t第二個69條就是確定給付也就是政府要確定給付這已經幾十年來修華當中都認為小事可是這一千一百多個勞工的情況之下給他一個入華的保障這是對勞工是一個安定的院長你針對這些你有什麼看法\n578178\t593626\t修法的問題請部長說明我跟委員報告過去幾年來我們包括疫後的特別條例一共撥補勞保3800億我想從以前到現在到以後歷任的執政者都不會把勞工的問題置之不理\n594127\t613501\t我們都會把勞工當作國家重要的資產我們對勞保的最終條件每一任的政府未來也是一樣一定會承擔起來修法的問題部長可以說明我的理由很簡單你同不同意入華保障所有的勞工我跟委員報告\n614942\t641178\t勞保是國家來辦的社會保險所以不管入不入法政府都會來負擔最終責任是 好那我們也會來視政府的財政狀況來持續的辦理撥補那我知道委員其實也有提案就是說關於最終責任的入法的部分我們是覺得這部分第一個是尊重第二個我們也覺得是可以有討論的空間是 來 燕子\n642096\t650757\t一句話 你反對入華以否我只要你聽你這句話因為你們本來都有在做啊\n651715\t676950\t不管未來是誰執政你只是對勞工有保障但是 院長我特別要提醒你從來的行政院長認為這都是小事但是我必須要跟院長建議以重心長勞工需要的就是法令的保障他知道你們有在做但是你同不同意入法的當中同不同意\n677557\t684289\t入法可以一步一步的來研議但是我跟委員報告政府跟勞工的關係這種終身的保障\n685452\t711385\t我只在乎一張契約你們不會放棄對不對我只不在乎一張契約這個契約很重要我們終身保證職位老公要的不多老公是一個寶藏跟一個肝臟這個當然你們都有在做啦都具體做到所以這些東西當然是替勞工去爭取這些入華是對他們一個寶藏\n713886\t735756\t保障因為你們都有在做確實你們也有在做這個我到哪邊跟勞工宣導我說不管任何一個政黨民進黨有做的我就支持他民進黨沒有做的我當然批評他可是院長我已經跟你講這件事情你們有做我到哪邊宣導我就跟他講民進黨在執政的時候撥補是撥補給其他政黨還多這個我都幫你們講話你可以去問勞工啊\n742879\t760522\t所以 院長 我希望你不要阻擋這些入法這些入法對勞工是只有一個防範用法律概念 我們的意識實現已經一定一直在實現這點我不要跟你辯論我也不會懷疑 我們一定有這樣的心\n761022\t776036\t所以修法的問題 入法的問題可以慢慢去研究但是我們每年該做的會一定把它做到從過去到現在都如此這個入法 這個入法是對勞工一個切身的保障其實你們有在做 你們怕什麼入法\n776856\t805171\t這個也跟中華民國的任何權利都沒有關這是勞工的權利所以這點我要建議這個卓院長在這個部分你要很明確的來支持因為修法當然有一定步驟也不是說今天馬上做就馬上做但是我不希望行政單位來反對這個就不好啦這個就不好所以卓院長好另外一個我想那個\n806840\t820640\t其實警消組工會啊這個是一個大問題但是這裡面有兩點一就是罷工前二就是植栽的確保在這個部分我還是希望卓院長\n821843\t843077\t每天這樣吵倒不如好好研究一下所以過去教師也是不能組工會那那個時候我很清楚到最後他們沒有罷工錢當然這裡面有一部分的人是公務人員是用公務人員服務法這個都可以談所以我還是要拜託卓院長在這個\n844998\t872117\t確確實實 主公會並非洪水猛獸所以好好去談一下不要踩得那麼硬 我在想洪部長 你站在保障勞工的立場你也不會反對 但是確實這裡面有很多值得大家去商討的大家去商討 所以我還是再度建議 卓院長在這個部分就大家要共同跨部會的去研究 到底\n873243\t894244\t成立以否有什麼利弊要去做分析以現在政府的心態他好像主公會就是洪水門座這沒有必要的我們說實在這沒必要這些東西都是我們內政我們內部的問題所以都沒有牽涉從警消人員的福利我們來加強著手\n894804\t903412\t那麼景蕭因為他是有公法上特殊的職務關係我們希望如果能夠走協會的方式一同來並同協會現在就有嘛協會就沒有華澤嘛來強化協會的功能這個是目前認為比較可行那些穩定社會的必須我是以重心長\n914622\t935289\t在這個部分就是公務人員服務法以及工會勞動商法這兩者之間當然還有一件但是我建議你就大家坐下來好好談這樣總是有一天會解決那大多數的聲音是認為說保持現狀那這個也是一個解決之道啊\n935609\t959334\t不要每一次就覺得我們卓內閣都是在反對這一點我是真的啦但是請委員協助我們好好地來溝通對啦 這個溝通一下才會解決啦好不好 院長好 部長好 謝謝林國成委員質詢謝謝卓院長 勞動部長備詢好 謝謝接下來登記第二號 第三號李昆哲\n","txt":"賴世保委員請準備報言會現在在我們一場二樓旁邊來自東吳大學政治系的同學們熱情歡迎你們 我們掌聲歡迎好 謝謝院長 請卓院長勞動部紅部長麻煩請卓院長勞動部備選\n好 院長最近辛苦了大家都辛苦了台灣政紅全球的關稅還有國內的政治紛爭這等等可以說啊蠟燭兩頭燒啦那感同身受也了解院長你的辛勞\n那我還是要建議院長要拋開政治\n多了解民生還有給你一個建議先安內再攬外未來因為台灣要往前走我也知道 院長你是想要做事但是全球這整個打壓以及大罷免等等這些讓你確確實實左院長是真的蠟燭量多少但是我還是\n要給你一個免利你的辛苦當然為了台灣人民要往前走這一點我想 院長你同意吧謝謝委員 只要內部能夠安定我們就有全民的力量可以往外走所以我也希望支持我們現在提出的特別條例一起為產業做支持 讓人民安心我一向啊 我們都非常理性的\n該支持的我們會支持不該支持的我們會堅持到底這是我特別跟院長說明一下另外一個當然我問這個話題也就是身為勞工經濟部長\n他講如果看不下去就可以離開這種說法身為一個勞工我還有了解地方勞工的心聲我坦白講緩談之大特別下情善打讓卓院長了解這些\n我說從卓院長執政到現在你講話從來沒有這樣挑釁不尊重勞工的 沒有可是我沒有想到一個資方的經濟部長他會講這種話說實在我感覺到非常難過跟非常可悲但院長我為什麼要下請上達\n這個就要特別讓你留意當然不是你叫他這樣講可是確實會影響整個勞工這些士氣跟對我們政府走內閣的看法所以我不曉得 左院長你認為他講這句話 妥當 不妥當\n這句話國務部長講出之後已經引起社會的注意也很多勞工朋友一定會感受到受到尊重所以我跟國務部長有談過我們馬上總之結束之後馬上會利用適當的時間儘快去跟勞工朋友表達我們具體的關心以及對國營事業同仁夥伴們\n我們用拒絕行動來支持他們謝謝委員的提醒這點啊因為卓院長你知道他你的內閣講錯一句話帳是算在你這裡但是卓院長講錯一句話是把帳算到賴總統所以要特別耶穌小心\n既然立法委員理性提醒你這些我希望卓院長要刻不容緩 盡是地讓勞工釋懷或許他是無意但是人家聽者有心所以這些我身為一個勞工我要代替一千多萬的勞工跟郭部長抗議這些這叫做什麼 灌勞板\n這不好的燕子我是良心的建議啦另外一個啊我就感覺到很奇怪郭部長啊他問題一大堆那最近他又請AIT吃飯的時候這裡面有兩個問題現在大家都在吵啊\n那你沒有你就要講清楚啊那做的事情我剛才已經講過卓院長你是要蓋瓜成熟現在人家就把所有格言裡面所作所為都把它記到\n郭部長那郭部長他這種做法他到底是自用工會請AIT或者他自己掏腰包現在都講不清楚現在勞工也一直在講你起床也問卓院長他對這件事情什麼看法如果是自己\n他自己出錢那你也拿出來講清楚不要讓勞工都覺得郭志輝已經灌老闆了那然後灌老闆就應該這樣嗎所以我是覺得我還是要第二個建議我們卓院長\n有就有 沒有就沒有該解釋的要把花票講清楚說明白不要經濟服務講一套他自己講一套但是不要忘了郭部長的長官就是卓院長那卓院長你要不要把這件事情把它理清楚也不要產生勞工跟各界對他有一種誤解我蠻擔心的\n當然部長可以隨時走可是卓院長不要忘記你現在是中華民國最高的行政所長不能因為你的格言這樣來害到你對這件事情的執政的負面院長你認為怎麼樣根據週刊報導裡面有提到郭部長也有說明他對外有說明\n如果那個參會的費用是郭部長自己來支應的話那我想就沒有什麼特別的問題他已經對外這麼說明過了好 院長你願不願意把這件事情把它釐清楚讓各界 讓勞工不要把它說我的灌勞榜又出逼囉 院長\n你很多事情是有所為有所不為啦\n這個我是第二個特別跟你建議啦\n那另外一個我可能就要跟你談現在勞工的這些勞保福利的問題我們要感謝左院長執政的時候民進黨執政的時候連續幾年來確實在撥補方面以及該做的你們都有做\n所以大家鬧得風風雨雨啊也就是勞保破產的問題在你們撥補的情況之下確實是延後很多可是整個這些架構的問題還是要改善所以我在這裡很簡單直接就特別請教我們卓院長到底你對於撥補有在做\n那勞保條例的66條是把它加上去法定撥補但是在這裡 院長我們沒有要你固定要撥補多少就是沒人要撥補但是69條\n69條就是政府你曾經講過很多次政府要負起這個責任有沒有可能就讓勞工很明確的就是入伙那本席也跟幾位我們同事都已經有提66條的修訂就是固定法定要撥補撥補多少金額由行政院去做決定\n第二個69條就是確定給付也就是政府要確定給付這已經幾十年來修華當中都認為小事可是這一千一百多個勞工的情況之下給他一個入華的保障這是對勞工是一個安定的院長你針對這些你有什麼看法\n修法的問題請部長說明我跟委員報告過去幾年來我們包括疫後的特別條例一共撥補勞保3800億我想從以前到現在到以後歷任的執政者都不會把勞工的問題置之不理\n我們都會把勞工當作國家重要的資產我們對勞保的最終條件每一任的政府未來也是一樣一定會承擔起來修法的問題部長可以說明我的理由很簡單你同不同意入華保障所有的勞工我跟委員報告\n勞保是國家來辦的社會保險所以不管入不入法政府都會來負擔最終責任是 好那我們也會來視政府的財政狀況來持續的辦理撥補那我知道委員其實也有提案就是說關於最終責任的入法的部分我們是覺得這部分第一個是尊重第二個我們也覺得是可以有討論的空間是 來 燕子\n一句話 你反對入華以否我只要你聽你這句話因為你們本來都有在做啊\n不管未來是誰執政你只是對勞工有保障但是 院長我特別要提醒你從來的行政院長認為這都是小事但是我必須要跟院長建議以重心長勞工需要的就是法令的保障他知道你們有在做但是你同不同意入法的當中同不同意\n入法可以一步一步的來研議但是我跟委員報告政府跟勞工的關係這種終身的保障\n我只在乎一張契約你們不會放棄對不對我只不在乎一張契約這個契約很重要我們終身保證職位老公要的不多老公是一個寶藏跟一個肝臟這個當然你們都有在做啦都具體做到所以這些東西當然是替勞工去爭取這些入華是對他們一個寶藏\n保障因為你們都有在做確實你們也有在做這個我到哪邊跟勞工宣導我說不管任何一個政黨民進黨有做的我就支持他民進黨沒有做的我當然批評他可是院長我已經跟你講這件事情你們有做我到哪邊宣導我就跟他講民進黨在執政的時候撥補是撥補給其他政黨還多這個我都幫你們講話你可以去問勞工啊\n所以 院長 我希望你不要阻擋這些入法這些入法對勞工是只有一個防範用法律概念 我們的意識實現已經一定一直在實現這點我不要跟你辯論我也不會懷疑 我們一定有這樣的心\n所以修法的問題 入法的問題可以慢慢去研究但是我們每年該做的會一定把它做到從過去到現在都如此這個入法 這個入法是對勞工一個切身的保障其實你們有在做 你們怕什麼入法\n這個也跟中華民國的任何權利都沒有關這是勞工的權利所以這點我要建議這個卓院長在這個部分你要很明確的來支持因為修法當然有一定步驟也不是說今天馬上做就馬上做但是我不希望行政單位來反對這個就不好啦這個就不好所以卓院長好另外一個我想那個\n其實警消組工會啊這個是一個大問題但是這裡面有兩點一就是罷工前二就是植栽的確保在這個部分我還是希望卓院長\n每天這樣吵倒不如好好研究一下所以過去教師也是不能組工會那那個時候我很清楚到最後他們沒有罷工錢當然這裡面有一部分的人是公務人員是用公務人員服務法這個都可以談所以我還是要拜託卓院長在這個\n確確實實 主公會並非洪水猛獸所以好好去談一下不要踩得那麼硬 我在想洪部長 你站在保障勞工的立場你也不會反對 但是確實這裡面有很多值得大家去商討的大家去商討 所以我還是再度建議 卓院長在這個部分就大家要共同跨部會的去研究 到底\n成立以否有什麼利弊要去做分析以現在政府的心態他好像主公會就是洪水門座這沒有必要的我們說實在這沒必要這些東西都是我們內政我們內部的問題所以都沒有牽涉從警消人員的福利我們來加強著手\n那麼景蕭因為他是有公法上特殊的職務關係我們希望如果能夠走協會的方式一同來並同協會現在就有嘛協會就沒有華澤嘛來強化協會的功能這個是目前認為比較可行那些穩定社會的必須我是以重心長\n在這個部分就是公務人員服務法以及工會勞動商法這兩者之間當然還有一件但是我建議你就大家坐下來好好談這樣總是有一天會解決那大多數的聲音是認為說保持現狀那這個也是一個解決之道啊\n不要每一次就覺得我們卓內閣都是在反對這一點我是真的啦但是請委員協助我們好好地來溝通對啦 這個溝通一下才會解決啦好不好 院長好 部長好 謝謝林國成委員質詢謝謝卓院長 勞動部長備詢好 謝謝接下來登記第二號 第三號李昆哲\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.693 --> 00:24.168\n賴世保委員請準備報言會現在在我們一場二樓旁邊來自東吳大學政治系的同學們熱情歡迎你們我們掌聲歡迎好謝謝院長請卓院長勞動部紅部長麻煩請卓院長勞動部備選\n\n00:40.846 --> 01:08.103\n好院長最近辛苦了大家都辛苦了台灣政紅全球的關稅還有國內的政治紛爭這等等可以說啊蠟燭兩頭燒啦那感同身受也了解院長你的辛勞\n\n01:09.892 --> 01:12.617\n那我還是要建議院長要拋開政治\n\n01:17.489 --> 01:45.532\n多了解民生還有給你一個建議先安內再攬外未來因為台灣要往前走我也知道院長你是想要做事但是全球這整個打壓以及大罷免等等這些讓你確確實實左院長是真的蠟燭量多少但是我還是\n\n01:46.499 --> 02:11.429\n要給你一個免利你的辛苦當然為了台灣人民要往前走這一點我想院長你同意吧謝謝委員只要內部能夠安定我們就有全民的力量可以往外走所以我也希望支持我們現在提出的特別條例一起為產業做支持讓人民安心我一向啊我們都非常理性的\n\n02:12.566 --> 02:21.996\n該支持的我們會支持不該支持的我們會堅持到底這是我特別跟院長說明一下另外一個當然我問這個話題也就是身為勞工經濟部長\n\n02:27.708 --> 02:47.478\n他講如果看不下去就可以離開這種說法身為一個勞工我還有了解地方勞工的心聲我坦白講緩談之大特別下情善打讓卓院長了解這些\n\n02:48.305 --> 03:11.565\n我說從卓院長執政到現在你講話從來沒有這樣挑釁不尊重勞工的沒有可是我沒有想到一個資方的經濟部長他會講這種話說實在我感覺到非常難過跟非常可悲但院長我為什麼要下請上達\n\n03:13.153 --> 03:34.156\n這個就要特別讓你留意當然不是你叫他這樣講可是確實會影響整個勞工這些士氣跟對我們政府走內閣的看法所以我不曉得左院長你認為他講這句話妥當不妥當\n\n03:35.973 --> 03:56.115\n這句話國務部長講出之後已經引起社會的注意也很多勞工朋友一定會感受到受到尊重所以我跟國務部長有談過我們馬上總之結束之後馬上會利用適當的時間儘快去跟勞工朋友表達我們具體的關心以及對國營事業同仁夥伴們\n\n03:56.696 --> 04:16.611\n我們用拒絕行動來支持他們謝謝委員的提醒這點啊因為卓院長你知道他你的內閣講錯一句話帳是算在你這裡但是卓院長講錯一句話是把帳算到賴總統所以要特別耶穌小心\n\n04:17.614 --> 04:42.643\n既然立法委員理性提醒你這些我希望卓院長要刻不容緩盡是地讓勞工釋懷或許他是無意但是人家聽者有心所以這些我身為一個勞工我要代替一千多萬的勞工跟郭部長抗議這些這叫做什麼灌勞板\n\n04:43.741 --> 04:59.478\n這不好的燕子我是良心的建議啦另外一個啊我就感覺到很奇怪郭部長啊他問題一大堆那最近他又請AIT吃飯的時候這裡面有兩個問題現在大家都在吵啊\n\n05:03.763 --> 05:17.847\n那你沒有你就要講清楚啊那做的事情我剛才已經講過卓院長你是要蓋瓜成熟現在人家就把所有格言裡面所作所為都把它記到\n\n05:19.548 --> 05:41.541\n郭部長那郭部長他這種做法他到底是自用工會請AIT或者他自己掏腰包現在都講不清楚現在勞工也一直在講你起床也問卓院長他對這件事情什麼看法如果是自己\n\n05:42.725 --> 05:59.215\n他自己出錢那你也拿出來講清楚不要讓勞工都覺得郭志輝已經灌老闆了那然後灌老闆就應該這樣嗎所以我是覺得我還是要第二個建議我們卓院長\n\n06:00.373 --> 06:24.871\n有就有沒有就沒有該解釋的要把花票講清楚說明白不要經濟服務講一套他自己講一套但是不要忘了郭部長的長官就是卓院長那卓院長你要不要把這件事情把它理清楚也不要產生勞工跟各界對他有一種誤解我蠻擔心的\n\n06:26.272 --> 06:49.136\n當然部長可以隨時走可是卓院長不要忘記你現在是中華民國最高的行政所長不能因為你的格言這樣來害到你對這件事情的執政的負面院長你認為怎麼樣根據週刊報導裡面有提到郭部長也有說明他對外有說明\n\n06:49.855 --> 07:07.337\n如果那個參會的費用是郭部長自己來支應的話那我想就沒有什麼特別的問題他已經對外這麼說明過了好院長你願不願意把這件事情把它釐清楚讓各界讓勞工不要把它說我的灌勞榜又出逼囉院長\n\n07:08.217 --> 07:10.059\n你很多事情是有所為有所不為啦\n\n07:30.469 --> 07:31.830\n這個我是第二個特別跟你建議啦\n\n07:46.155 --> 08:06.011\n那另外一個我可能就要跟你談現在勞工的這些勞保福利的問題我們要感謝左院長執政的時候民進黨執政的時候連續幾年來確實在撥補方面以及該做的你們都有做\n\n08:06.551 --> 08:33.070\n所以大家鬧得風風雨雨啊也就是勞保破產的問題在你們撥補的情況之下確實是延後很多可是整個這些架構的問題還是要改善所以我在這裡很簡單直接就特別請教我們卓院長到底你對於撥補有在做\n\n08:34.131 --> 08:48.223\n那勞保條例的66條是把它加上去法定撥補但是在這裡院長我們沒有要你固定要撥補多少就是沒人要撥補但是69條\n\n08:51.166 --> 09:14.238\n69條就是政府你曾經講過很多次政府要負起這個責任有沒有可能就讓勞工很明確的就是入伙那本席也跟幾位我們同事都已經有提66條的修訂就是固定法定要撥補撥補多少金額由行政院去做決定\n\n09:14.858 --> 09:37.498\n第二個69條就是確定給付也就是政府要確定給付這已經幾十年來修華當中都認為小事可是這一千一百多個勞工的情況之下給他一個入華的保障這是對勞工是一個安定的院長你針對這些你有什麼看法\n\n09:38.178 --> 09:53.626\n修法的問題請部長說明我跟委員報告過去幾年來我們包括疫後的特別條例一共撥補勞保3800億我想從以前到現在到以後歷任的執政者都不會把勞工的問題置之不理\n\n09:54.127 --> 10:13.501\n我們都會把勞工當作國家重要的資產我們對勞保的最終條件每一任的政府未來也是一樣一定會承擔起來修法的問題部長可以說明我的理由很簡單你同不同意入華保障所有的勞工我跟委員報告\n\n10:14.942 --> 10:41.178\n勞保是國家來辦的社會保險所以不管入不入法政府都會來負擔最終責任是好那我們也會來視政府的財政狀況來持續的辦理撥補那我知道委員其實也有提案就是說關於最終責任的入法的部分我們是覺得這部分第一個是尊重第二個我們也覺得是可以有討論的空間是來燕子\n\n10:42.096 --> 10:50.757\n一句話你反對入華以否我只要你聽你這句話因為你們本來都有在做啊\n\n10:51.715 --> 11:16.950\n不管未來是誰執政你只是對勞工有保障但是院長我特別要提醒你從來的行政院長認為這都是小事但是我必須要跟院長建議以重心長勞工需要的就是法令的保障他知道你們有在做但是你同不同意入法的當中同不同意\n\n11:17.557 --> 11:24.289\n入法可以一步一步的來研議但是我跟委員報告政府跟勞工的關係這種終身的保障\n\n11:25.452 --> 11:51.385\n我只在乎一張契約你們不會放棄對不對我只不在乎一張契約這個契約很重要我們終身保證職位老公要的不多老公是一個寶藏跟一個肝臟這個當然你們都有在做啦都具體做到所以這些東西當然是替勞工去爭取這些入華是對他們一個寶藏\n\n11:53.886 --> 12:15.756\n保障因為你們都有在做確實你們也有在做這個我到哪邊跟勞工宣導我說不管任何一個政黨民進黨有做的我就支持他民進黨沒有做的我當然批評他可是院長我已經跟你講這件事情你們有做我到哪邊宣導我就跟他講民進黨在執政的時候撥補是撥補給其他政黨還多這個我都幫你們講話你可以去問勞工啊\n\n12:22.879 --> 12:40.522\n所以院長我希望你不要阻擋這些入法這些入法對勞工是只有一個防範用法律概念我們的意識實現已經一定一直在實現這點我不要跟你辯論我也不會懷疑我們一定有這樣的心\n\n12:41.022 --> 12:56.036\n所以修法的問題入法的問題可以慢慢去研究但是我們每年該做的會一定把它做到從過去到現在都如此這個入法這個入法是對勞工一個切身的保障其實你們有在做你們怕什麼入法\n\n12:56.856 --> 13:25.171\n這個也跟中華民國的任何權利都沒有關這是勞工的權利所以這點我要建議這個卓院長在這個部分你要很明確的來支持因為修法當然有一定步驟也不是說今天馬上做就馬上做但是我不希望行政單位來反對這個就不好啦這個就不好所以卓院長好另外一個我想那個\n\n13:26.840 --> 13:40.640\n其實警消組工會啊這個是一個大問題但是這裡面有兩點一就是罷工前二就是植栽的確保在這個部分我還是希望卓院長\n\n13:41.843 --> 14:03.077\n每天這樣吵倒不如好好研究一下所以過去教師也是不能組工會那那個時候我很清楚到最後他們沒有罷工錢當然這裡面有一部分的人是公務人員是用公務人員服務法這個都可以談所以我還是要拜託卓院長在這個\n\n14:04.998 --> 14:32.117\n確確實實主公會並非洪水猛獸所以好好去談一下不要踩得那麼硬我在想洪部長你站在保障勞工的立場你也不會反對但是確實這裡面有很多值得大家去商討的大家去商討所以我還是再度建議卓院長在這個部分就大家要共同跨部會的去研究到底\n\n14:33.243 --> 14:54.244\n成立以否有什麼利弊要去做分析以現在政府的心態他好像主公會就是洪水門座這沒有必要的我們說實在這沒必要這些東西都是我們內政我們內部的問題所以都沒有牽涉從警消人員的福利我們來加強著手\n\n14:54.804 --> 15:03.412\n那麼景蕭因為他是有公法上特殊的職務關係我們希望如果能夠走協會的方式一同來並同協會現在就有嘛協會就沒有華澤嘛來強化協會的功能這個是目前認為比較可行那些穩定社會的必須我是以重心長\n\n15:14.622 --> 15:35.289\n在這個部分就是公務人員服務法以及工會勞動商法這兩者之間當然還有一件但是我建議你就大家坐下來好好談這樣總是有一天會解決那大多數的聲音是認為說保持現狀那這個也是一個解決之道啊\n\n15:35.609 --> 15:59.334\n不要每一次就覺得我們卓內閣都是在反對這一點我是真的啦但是請委員協助我們好好地來溝通對啦這個溝通一下才會解決啦好不好院長好部長好謝謝林國成委員質詢謝謝卓院長勞動部長備詢好謝謝接下來登記第二號第三號李昆哲\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.693,"end":24.168,"text":"賴世保委員請準備報言會現在在我們一場二樓旁邊來自東吳大學政治系的同學們熱情歡迎你們 我們掌聲歡迎好 謝謝院長 請卓院長勞動部紅部長麻煩請卓院長勞動部備選"},{"start":40.846,"end":68.103,"text":"好 院長最近辛苦了大家都辛苦了台灣政紅全球的關稅還有國內的政治紛爭這等等可以說啊蠟燭兩頭燒啦那感同身受也了解院長你的辛勞"},{"start":69.892,"end":72.617,"text":"那我還是要建議院長要拋開政治"},{"start":77.489,"end":105.532,"text":"多了解民生還有給你一個建議先安內再攬外未來因為台灣要往前走我也知道 院長你是想要做事但是全球這整個打壓以及大罷免等等這些讓你確確實實左院長是真的蠟燭量多少但是我還是"},{"start":106.499,"end":131.429,"text":"要給你一個免利你的辛苦當然為了台灣人民要往前走這一點我想 院長你同意吧謝謝委員 只要內部能夠安定我們就有全民的力量可以往外走所以我也希望支持我們現在提出的特別條例一起為產業做支持 讓人民安心我一向啊 我們都非常理性的"},{"start":132.566,"end":141.996,"text":"該支持的我們會支持不該支持的我們會堅持到底這是我特別跟院長說明一下另外一個當然我問這個話題也就是身為勞工經濟部長"},{"start":147.708,"end":167.478,"text":"他講如果看不下去就可以離開這種說法身為一個勞工我還有了解地方勞工的心聲我坦白講緩談之大特別下情善打讓卓院長了解這些"},{"start":168.305,"end":191.565,"text":"我說從卓院長執政到現在你講話從來沒有這樣挑釁不尊重勞工的 沒有可是我沒有想到一個資方的經濟部長他會講這種話說實在我感覺到非常難過跟非常可悲但院長我為什麼要下請上達"},{"start":193.153,"end":214.156,"text":"這個就要特別讓你留意當然不是你叫他這樣講可是確實會影響整個勞工這些士氣跟對我們政府走內閣的看法所以我不曉得 左院長你認為他講這句話 妥當 不妥當"},{"start":215.973,"end":236.115,"text":"這句話國務部長講出之後已經引起社會的注意也很多勞工朋友一定會感受到受到尊重所以我跟國務部長有談過我們馬上總之結束之後馬上會利用適當的時間儘快去跟勞工朋友表達我們具體的關心以及對國營事業同仁夥伴們"},{"start":236.696,"end":256.611,"text":"我們用拒絕行動來支持他們謝謝委員的提醒這點啊因為卓院長你知道他你的內閣講錯一句話帳是算在你這裡但是卓院長講錯一句話是把帳算到賴總統所以要特別耶穌小心"},{"start":257.614,"end":282.643,"text":"既然立法委員理性提醒你這些我希望卓院長要刻不容緩 盡是地讓勞工釋懷或許他是無意但是人家聽者有心所以這些我身為一個勞工我要代替一千多萬的勞工跟郭部長抗議這些這叫做什麼 灌勞板"},{"start":283.741,"end":299.478,"text":"這不好的燕子我是良心的建議啦另外一個啊我就感覺到很奇怪郭部長啊他問題一大堆那最近他又請AIT吃飯的時候這裡面有兩個問題現在大家都在吵啊"},{"start":303.763,"end":317.847,"text":"那你沒有你就要講清楚啊那做的事情我剛才已經講過卓院長你是要蓋瓜成熟現在人家就把所有格言裡面所作所為都把它記到"},{"start":319.548,"end":341.541,"text":"郭部長那郭部長他這種做法他到底是自用工會請AIT或者他自己掏腰包現在都講不清楚現在勞工也一直在講你起床也問卓院長他對這件事情什麼看法如果是自己"},{"start":342.725,"end":359.215,"text":"他自己出錢那你也拿出來講清楚不要讓勞工都覺得郭志輝已經灌老闆了那然後灌老闆就應該這樣嗎所以我是覺得我還是要第二個建議我們卓院長"},{"start":360.373,"end":384.871,"text":"有就有 沒有就沒有該解釋的要把花票講清楚說明白不要經濟服務講一套他自己講一套但是不要忘了郭部長的長官就是卓院長那卓院長你要不要把這件事情把它理清楚也不要產生勞工跟各界對他有一種誤解我蠻擔心的"},{"start":386.272,"end":409.136,"text":"當然部長可以隨時走可是卓院長不要忘記你現在是中華民國最高的行政所長不能因為你的格言這樣來害到你對這件事情的執政的負面院長你認為怎麼樣根據週刊報導裡面有提到郭部長也有說明他對外有說明"},{"start":409.855,"end":427.337,"text":"如果那個參會的費用是郭部長自己來支應的話那我想就沒有什麼特別的問題他已經對外這麼說明過了好 院長你願不願意把這件事情把它釐清楚讓各界 讓勞工不要把它說我的灌勞榜又出逼囉 院長"},{"start":428.217,"end":430.059,"text":"你很多事情是有所為有所不為啦"},{"start":450.469,"end":451.83,"text":"這個我是第二個特別跟你建議啦"},{"start":466.155,"end":486.011,"text":"那另外一個我可能就要跟你談現在勞工的這些勞保福利的問題我們要感謝左院長執政的時候民進黨執政的時候連續幾年來確實在撥補方面以及該做的你們都有做"},{"start":486.551,"end":513.07,"text":"所以大家鬧得風風雨雨啊也就是勞保破產的問題在你們撥補的情況之下確實是延後很多可是整個這些架構的問題還是要改善所以我在這裡很簡單直接就特別請教我們卓院長到底你對於撥補有在做"},{"start":514.131,"end":528.223,"text":"那勞保條例的66條是把它加上去法定撥補但是在這裡 院長我們沒有要你固定要撥補多少就是沒人要撥補但是69條"},{"start":531.166,"end":554.238,"text":"69條就是政府你曾經講過很多次政府要負起這個責任有沒有可能就讓勞工很明確的就是入伙那本席也跟幾位我們同事都已經有提66條的修訂就是固定法定要撥補撥補多少金額由行政院去做決定"},{"start":554.858,"end":577.498,"text":"第二個69條就是確定給付也就是政府要確定給付這已經幾十年來修華當中都認為小事可是這一千一百多個勞工的情況之下給他一個入華的保障這是對勞工是一個安定的院長你針對這些你有什麼看法"},{"start":578.178,"end":593.626,"text":"修法的問題請部長說明我跟委員報告過去幾年來我們包括疫後的特別條例一共撥補勞保3800億我想從以前到現在到以後歷任的執政者都不會把勞工的問題置之不理"},{"start":594.127,"end":613.501,"text":"我們都會把勞工當作國家重要的資產我們對勞保的最終條件每一任的政府未來也是一樣一定會承擔起來修法的問題部長可以說明我的理由很簡單你同不同意入華保障所有的勞工我跟委員報告"},{"start":614.942,"end":641.178,"text":"勞保是國家來辦的社會保險所以不管入不入法政府都會來負擔最終責任是 好那我們也會來視政府的財政狀況來持續的辦理撥補那我知道委員其實也有提案就是說關於最終責任的入法的部分我們是覺得這部分第一個是尊重第二個我們也覺得是可以有討論的空間是 來 燕子"},{"start":642.096,"end":650.757,"text":"一句話 你反對入華以否我只要你聽你這句話因為你們本來都有在做啊"},{"start":651.715,"end":676.95,"text":"不管未來是誰執政你只是對勞工有保障但是 院長我特別要提醒你從來的行政院長認為這都是小事但是我必須要跟院長建議以重心長勞工需要的就是法令的保障他知道你們有在做但是你同不同意入法的當中同不同意"},{"start":677.557,"end":684.289,"text":"入法可以一步一步的來研議但是我跟委員報告政府跟勞工的關係這種終身的保障"},{"start":685.452,"end":711.385,"text":"我只在乎一張契約你們不會放棄對不對我只不在乎一張契約這個契約很重要我們終身保證職位老公要的不多老公是一個寶藏跟一個肝臟這個當然你們都有在做啦都具體做到所以這些東西當然是替勞工去爭取這些入華是對他們一個寶藏"},{"start":713.886,"end":735.756,"text":"保障因為你們都有在做確實你們也有在做這個我到哪邊跟勞工宣導我說不管任何一個政黨民進黨有做的我就支持他民進黨沒有做的我當然批評他可是院長我已經跟你講這件事情你們有做我到哪邊宣導我就跟他講民進黨在執政的時候撥補是撥補給其他政黨還多這個我都幫你們講話你可以去問勞工啊"},{"start":742.879,"end":760.522,"text":"所以 院長 我希望你不要阻擋這些入法這些入法對勞工是只有一個防範用法律概念 我們的意識實現已經一定一直在實現這點我不要跟你辯論我也不會懷疑 我們一定有這樣的心"},{"start":761.022,"end":776.036,"text":"所以修法的問題 入法的問題可以慢慢去研究但是我們每年該做的會一定把它做到從過去到現在都如此這個入法 這個入法是對勞工一個切身的保障其實你們有在做 你們怕什麼入法"},{"start":776.856,"end":805.171,"text":"這個也跟中華民國的任何權利都沒有關這是勞工的權利所以這點我要建議這個卓院長在這個部分你要很明確的來支持因為修法當然有一定步驟也不是說今天馬上做就馬上做但是我不希望行政單位來反對這個就不好啦這個就不好所以卓院長好另外一個我想那個"},{"start":806.84,"end":820.64,"text":"其實警消組工會啊這個是一個大問題但是這裡面有兩點一就是罷工前二就是植栽的確保在這個部分我還是希望卓院長"},{"start":821.843,"end":843.077,"text":"每天這樣吵倒不如好好研究一下所以過去教師也是不能組工會那那個時候我很清楚到最後他們沒有罷工錢當然這裡面有一部分的人是公務人員是用公務人員服務法這個都可以談所以我還是要拜託卓院長在這個"},{"start":844.998,"end":872.117,"text":"確確實實 主公會並非洪水猛獸所以好好去談一下不要踩得那麼硬 我在想洪部長 你站在保障勞工的立場你也不會反對 但是確實這裡面有很多值得大家去商討的大家去商討 所以我還是再度建議 卓院長在這個部分就大家要共同跨部會的去研究 到底"},{"start":873.243,"end":894.244,"text":"成立以否有什麼利弊要去做分析以現在政府的心態他好像主公會就是洪水門座這沒有必要的我們說實在這沒必要這些東西都是我們內政我們內部的問題所以都沒有牽涉從警消人員的福利我們來加強著手"},{"start":894.804,"end":903.412,"text":"那麼景蕭因為他是有公法上特殊的職務關係我們希望如果能夠走協會的方式一同來並同協會現在就有嘛協會就沒有華澤嘛來強化協會的功能這個是目前認為比較可行那些穩定社會的必須我是以重心長"},{"start":914.622,"end":935.289,"text":"在這個部分就是公務人員服務法以及工會勞動商法這兩者之間當然還有一件但是我建議你就大家坐下來好好談這樣總是有一天會解決那大多數的聲音是認為說保持現狀那這個也是一個解決之道啊"},{"start":935.609,"end":959.334,"text":"不要每一次就覺得我們卓內閣都是在反對這一點我是真的啦但是請委員協助我們好好地來溝通對啦 這個溝通一下才會解決啦好不好 院長好 部長好 謝謝林國成委員質詢謝謝卓院長 勞動部長備詢好 謝謝接下來登記第二號 第三號李昆哲"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":2,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（14時30分）謝謝院長。請卓院長及勞動部洪部長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長及勞動部備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：林委員好。"],["林委員國成：院長最近辛苦了！"],["卓院長榮泰：大家都辛苦了。"],["林委員國成：臺灣正逢全球的關稅以及國內的政治紛爭，可以說是蠟燭兩頭燒。本席感同身受，也了解院長你的辛勞，但我還是建議院長要拋開政治、多了解民生，另外還要給你一個建議：先安內再攘外。因為未來臺灣要往前走，我也知道院長你想要做事，但是全球整個的打壓以及大罷免等等，讓你確確實實是蠟燭兩頭燒，但我還是要給你勉勵，你的辛苦當然是為了臺灣人民要往前走，這一點我想院長你同意吧！"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，只要內部能夠安定，我們就有全民的力量可以往外走，所以我也希望支持我們現在提出的特別條例，一起為產業支持，讓人民安心。"],["林委員國成：我一向都非常理性，該支持的我們會支持，不該支持的我們會堅持到底，這一點我要特別跟院長說明一下。","另外我要問一個話題，也就是對於勞工，經濟部長他講如果看不下去可以離開，對於這種說法，我身為一個勞工，我了解地方勞工的心聲，坦白講，反彈之大，所以我特別下情上達，讓卓院長了解這些情況。我看從卓院長執政到現在，你講話從來沒有這樣挑釁、不尊重勞工的，沒有！可是我沒有想到一個資方的經濟部長會講這種話，說實在的，我感到非常難過，也覺得非常可悲。院長，我為什麼要下情上達？這個就是要讓你特別留意，當然不是你叫他這樣講，可是確實會影響整個勞工的士氣以及對卓內閣的看法。我不曉得卓院長認為他講這句話妥當不妥當？"],["卓院長榮泰：這句話郭部長講出之後已經引起社會的注意，也有很多勞工朋友一定會感受到不夠受到尊重，所以我跟郭部長有談過，總質詢結束之後，我們會馬上利用適當的時間，儘快去跟勞工朋友表達我們具體的關心，以及對國營事業同仁夥伴們，我們用具體的行動來支持他們，謝謝委員的提醒。"],["林委員國成：關於這一點，卓院長應該知道你的內閣講錯一句話，帳是算在你這裡，而卓院長講錯一句話，則是把帳算到賴總統！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們都非常小心。"],["林委員國成：所以要特別約束小心，既然立法委員理性提醒你這些，我希望卓院長要刻不容緩，儘速讓勞工釋懷。"],["卓院長榮泰：是的，我們會努力做到。"],["林委員國成：或許他是無意，但是人家聽者有心，所以我身為一個勞工，我要代替一千多萬的勞工跟郭部長抗議這些，這叫做什麼？慣老闆，這不好的。"],["卓院長榮泰：我可以完全體會。"],["林委員國成：院長，這也是良心的建議。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["林委員國成：另外一個，我就感覺到很奇怪，郭部長問題一大堆，最近他請AIT吃飯，這裡面有兩個問題，現在大家都在吵，你沒有，你就要講清楚啊！關於他做的事情，我剛才已經講過，卓院長你要概括承受，現在人家就把所有閣員的所作所為都記到卓院長身上，郭部長這種做法到底是支用公費請AIT或者他自己掏腰包，現在都講不清楚。現在勞工也一直在講：立委，你上臺的時候也去問一下卓院長對這件事情是什麼看法。如果是他自己出錢，也要拿出來講清楚，不要讓勞工都覺得郭智輝已經變成慣老闆了，慣老闆就應該這樣嗎？所以我給卓院長的第二個建議是，有就有，沒有就沒有，該解釋的要把發票講清楚、說明白，不要經濟部講一套，他自己講一套。不要忘了，郭部長的長官就是卓院長，卓院長要不要把這件事情釐清楚，不要產生勞工跟各界對他有一種誤解？我們擔心的是，當然部長可以隨時走，可是卓院長不要忘記，你現在是中華民國最高的行政首長，不能因為你的閣員這樣，使這件事情害到你而變成執政的負面。院長，你認為怎麼樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：根據週刊報導，裡面有提到郭部長也有說明，他對外有說明，如果那個餐會的費用是郭部長自己來支應的話，我想就沒有什麼特別的問題，他已經對外這麼說明過了。"],["林委員國成：好。院長，你願不願意把這件事情釐清楚，讓各界、讓勞工不要認為慣老闆又出紕漏？院長，願不願意？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，我們大概都是同時在今天看到這些週刊的報導，今天因為我人在這裡，我早上有跟郭部長嘗試聯繫過，他說對外他的講法就是這樣的講法，我會再確實證實他的講法是真的。"],["林委員國成：卓院長，你很多事情是有所為、有所不為，不當的……"],["卓院長榮泰：這必須要查清楚。"],["林委員國成：不妥的就要馬上當機立斷，該處理就處理。去留問題我不在乎，我在乎的是把真相揭發出來，這是你卓院長應該要做的。"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["林委員國成：這是我第二個特別跟你建議。","另外一個，我可能就要跟你談現在勞工勞保福利的問題。我們要感謝卓院長執政的時候、民進黨執政的時候，連續幾年來確實在撥補方面以及該做的你們都有做，所以大家鬧得風風雨雨，也就是勞保破產的問題，在你們撥補的情況之下確實延後很多，可是整個架構的問題還是要改善。我在這裡很簡單，就直接請教卓院長，你對於撥補有在做，勞保條例第六十六條把法定撥補加上去，但是在這裡，院長，我們沒有要你固定撥補多少，就是每一年要撥補，但是針對第六十九條，你曾經講過很多次，政府要負起這個責任，有沒有可能就讓勞工很明確地入法？本席也跟幾位同事都已經提出第六十六條的修訂，就是固定法定要撥補，至於撥補多少、金額由行政院去做決定。第二個，第六十九條就是確定給付，也就是政府要確定給付，這已經是幾十年來修法當中都認為是小事，可是對這一千一百多萬勞工來講，給他們一個入法的保障，對勞工是安定的。院長，針對這些你有什麼看法？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，修法的問題稍後請部長說明。我跟委員報告，過去幾年來，包括疫後的特別條例，一共撥補勞保3,800億……"],["林委員國成：我知道。"],["卓院長榮泰：從以前到現在、到以後，歷任執政者都不會把勞工的問題置之不理，我們都會把勞工當作國家重要的資產，我們對勞保的最終責任──每一任的政府，未來也是一樣，一定會承擔起來。而修法的問題請部長跟您說明。"],["林委員國成：院長，我的理由很簡單，你同不同意入法以保障所有的勞工？"],["洪部長申翰：我跟委員報告，勞保是國家辦的社會保險，所以不管入不入法，政府都會負擔最終責任。"],["林委員國成：好。"],["洪部長申翰：我們也會視政府財政狀況持續辦理撥補。我知道委員其實也有提案，就是關於最終責任入法的部分，我們對於這部分，第一個，尊重；第二個，我們也覺得可以有討論的空間。"],["林委員國成：院長，一句話，你反不反對入法？我只要聽你這句話，因為你們本來都有在做，不管未來是誰執政，而且這只是對勞工有保障，但是院長我要特別提醒你，以前的行政院長認為這都是小事，但是我必須要跟院長建議，語重心長，勞工需要的就是法令的保障，他知道你們有在做，但是你同不同意入法？"],["卓院長榮泰：入法可以一步一步研議，但是我跟委員報告，關於政府跟勞工的關係，這種終身的保障不只在乎一張契約……"],["林委員國成：你們不會放棄，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：不在乎一張契約……"],["林委員國成：沒有！沒有！這個契約很重要。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們負終身保證的責任。"],["林委員國成：院長，我跟你說，勞工要的不多，勞工要的是一個保障跟一個「奇檬子」，這個當然你們都有在做……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們都具體做到。"],["林委員國成：所以替勞工爭取這些東西入法是對他們的一個保障。你們都有在做，確實你們也有在做，無論到哪邊跟勞工宣導我都有說，不管是任何一個政黨，民進黨有做的，我就支持他；民進黨沒有做的，我當然批評他。院長，我已經跟你講了，這件事情你們有做，無論到哪邊宣導我就跟他講，民進黨在執政的時候，撥補的比其他政黨還多，這個我都有幫你們講話，你可以去問問勞工，所以院長，我希望你不要阻擋這個入法，這個入法對勞工只是一個保障。"],["卓院長榮泰：用法律概念來講，我們的意思實現已經一直在實現。"],["林委員國成：有啦！這點我不要再跟你辯論了，有啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：委員也不會懷疑我們一定有這樣的心，所以修法的問題、入法的問題可以慢慢去研究，但是我們每年該做的一定會把它做到，從過去到現在都是如此。"],["林委員國成：院長，這個入法對勞工是一個切身的保障，其實你們都有在做，你們怕什麼入法呢？這個也跟中華民國的任何權力都沒有關係，這是勞工的權利，所以這點我要建議卓院長，就這個部分，你要很明確的支持。修法當然有一定步驟，也不是今天馬上做就馬上做，但是我不希望行政單位反對，這個就不好了。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["林委員國成：另外，其實警消組工會是一個大問題，但是這裡面有兩點，一就是罷工權；二就是職災的確保。我還是希望卓院長，每天這樣吵倒不如好好研究一下，過去教師也是不能組工會，那個時候我也很清楚，到最後他們沒有罷工權，當然這裡面有一部分的人是公務人員，適用公務人員服務法，這個都可以談。所以我還是要拜託卓院長，確確實實組工會並非洪水猛獸，所以好好去談一下，不要踩得那麼硬，我想洪部長站在保障勞工的立場也不會反對，但是確實這裡面有很多值得大家去商討的，所以我還是再度建議卓院長，就這個部分大家要跨部會共同去研究到底成立與否有什麼利弊，要去分析，以現在政府的心態，好像認為組工會就是洪水猛獸，沒有必要這樣。院長，我們說實在的，沒有必要這樣，這些東西都是我們內政、我們內部的問題，所以都沒有牽涉……"],["卓院長榮泰：對於警消人員的福利我們來加強著手，因為警消人員有公法上特殊的職務關係，我們希望如果能夠走協會的方式一同來……"],["林委員國成：現在就有協會嘛！可是協會就沒有罰則嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：強化協會的功能，我們認為目前這個比較可行，而且是穩定社會必須要做的。"],["林委員國成：院長，我是理性的跟你探討、我是語重心長，這個部分在公務員服務法以及工會勞動三法這兩者之間當然還有意見，但是我建議大家就坐下來好好談，這樣總是有一天會解決，大家多數的聲音是認為要保持現狀，這個也是一個解決之道，不要每一次就讓人覺得卓內閣都是在反對，這一點我是……"],["卓院長榮泰：那就請委員協助我們好好的溝通。"],["林委員國成：對啦！這個要溝通一下才會解決，院長、部長，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["洪部長申翰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝林國成委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、勞動部長備詢。","接下來登記第2號、第3號的李昆澤委員跟林月琴委員之質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄、刊登公報。"],["委員李昆澤書面質詢：","議題一、勞保應持續撥補","依據勞動部2025年發布的勞保精算報告，勞保基金累積餘額出現負值年度為2031年，從上一次精算的2028年延至2031年，破產危機再延後3年。","而依據精算報告所提，延後勞保破產危機，最關鍵的要素就是政府撥補，在本席多年爭取，以及過去行政院支持下，截至2025年政府連續6年累計撥補勞保3,870億元億（包括特別預算）。","勞保現況─超過1000萬保戶","勞保關係到民眾退休的基本生活，目前勞保已經有超過1000萬的保戶（1045萬，勞保局，截至2025年2月底）。","破產延後的關鍵：政府撥補","依據最新勞保基金精算報告，勞保的破產年限，從上次精算的2028年，延後至2031年，這個延後的關鍵就是政府撥補。","在兩次精算期間，政府撥補了3000多億，直接延後了勞保破產的時間。而這個精算報告中也強調，政府撥補除了直接溢注經費之外，也加強民眾對勞保的信心，降低一次領退休金的比例，這也是讓勞保基金平穩的重要因素。","精算報告中很明確的提出具體建議，目前國內經濟發展狀況良好，除了持續撥補外，更可以研議加大撥補的力道，確保未來一定期間的財務安全，落實政府責任。","財劃法影響，明年撥補狀況讓人擔憂","民進黨執政以來，負責任的擔起勞保的責任，除了公開宣示，更是實際撥補，撥補金額也是持續增加，近兩年更是維持在1200億的高額撥補。","近年來因為經濟發展狀況良好，政府稅收高於預期，所以行政院加大力道撥補勞保確保勞保財務穩定，原先，也非常期待明年度政府撥補能夠維持1200億的撥補水準，甚至提高撥補金額。","針對勞保撥補明年度的預算，兩大擔憂","首先，是今年度中央政府總預算（114年度），我們看到在野黨無理的刪減2000多億，凍結了1300多億，雖然今年度的撥補預算沒有遭到刪減，但是這種非理性的預算處理，讓人擔憂。","更嚴峻的問題，在於財劃法，中央政府要多撥給地方政府3753多億，依據主計長之前的推估說明，扣除定義務支出，中央政府其他預算可能要減少28%─37%，這會直接有效政府撥補勞保的能量。","明年持續撥補，金額請院長慎重考慮","受到財劃法影響，整體中央政府總預算受到嚴重影響，但是勞保撥補是勞工退休的救命錢，直接關係到勞保破產的年限，希望行政院慎重考慮。","議題二、研議增加產檢假、陪產檢假","■產檢假、陪產檢假辦理情形","依據113年僱用管理及工作場所就業平等概況","產檢假：86%提供產檢假","產檢假從104年實施，當年度雇主的提供比例是82.4%，到目前最新調查資料113年是86%，這9年來，僅增加了3.6%的雇主提供產檢假，現在仍然有14%的雇主並未提供產檢假。","陪產檢假（包括陪產假）：89%提供陪產檢假、80.9%給全薪","陪產檢假是111年開始實施，當年是88%雇主提供陪產檢假，依據113年最新資料是89%，2年來只有增加1%的雇主願意提供陪產檢假，仍有11%雇主不提供陪產檢假。","整體來看，事業單位提供有薪產檢假、陪產檢假的比較都超過8成，但是仍然有相當大的進步空間，要繼續努力。","產檢假、陪產檢假應增加為10天","過去我們有薪陪產假、陪產檢假是從無到有，從5天，進步到7天，本席主張，要再增加到10天。","過去產檢假5天，是因為政府補助10次產檢，後來增加到7天，是因為政府補助14次產檢。","本席主張產檢假增加到10天，是因為我們知道，除了補助14次產檢的檢查項目，其實還有6至10個自費產檢項目，也就是說完整的產檢可能是需要20至24次的。","本席採取低標，我們完整全面的產檢（補助項目+自費項目）至少需要20次，以此為依據，本席認為應該加有薪產檢假從7天增加為10天，同時也將有薪陪產檢假從7天增加為10天。","另外，本席也請行政院長責成衛福部進行研究，目前補助的14次產檢，是否能夠再增加，給予孕婦與胎兒更完整的照顧。"],["委員林月琴書面質詢：","口腔健康照護關係到高齡長者衰弱時程與失智症發病的機率，然而在長照政策的架構下，這是一個被忽略的環節。於長照3.0政策規劃的當下，謹針對口腔健康照護提出三大領域訴求，敬請公鑑。","壹、預防宣導並為機構人員培力","口腔衰弱增加身體衰弱、肌少症、失能及死亡的風險。","根據2018年研究指出，包括：自然牙數目、咬合力、構音能力PaTaKa、舌壓、主觀論訴咀嚼困難、主觀論訴吞嚥困難，六項不佳口腔狀況與身體衰弱有顯著的關係。","左圖為健康組（0/6）、口腔亞健康組（1-2/6）、口腔衰弱組（≧3/6）與身體衰弱（physical frailty）呈現顯著相關性；口腔衰弱與肌少症、長照需求、死亡呈現顯著相關性。","右圖為口腔脆弱狀態的全因死亡率生存曲線，持續追蹤45個月。每條曲線的調整考量了年齡、性別、身體質量指數、認知功能、抑鬱症狀、居住狀況、年收入、吸煙行為、慢性疾病及身體脆弱性等因素。發現口腔衰弱越嚴重者生存率越低。","因應這個問題，口腔衰弱與整體健康狀況、死亡率之間的顯著關聯性，日本於2019年結合全體國民的衛生教育、保健產業、與專業醫師，針對不同等級衰弱程度，建立口腔健康對應政策。","2023年，政府透過中華民國牙醫師公會全國聯合會的協助，機構口腔照護輔導教材，包括：手冊、量表、檢核表及影片。","基於口腔健康法第8條規定直轄市、縣（市）主管機關應加強推展下列對象之口腔保健措施及口腔危害因子防制：一、老人、身心障礙者。二、孕婦、乳幼兒、幼兒、兒童及少年。三、口腔癌高危險群。","請衛生福利部持續推動全民口腔保健措施及口腔危害因子防制宣導，以預防老化，漸緩失智。並且持續推動住宿式機構口腔照護工作教育訓練計畫，特別是該計畫除了針對長照機構之外，包括依據老人福利法設立的私立老人機構、護理機構、榮民之家都列為推動對象。","貳、建立剝離上皮細胞膜評估、照護、給付制度","根據研究統計，口腔插管病人有40%的機率發生剝離上皮細胞膜症狀。插管期間舌頭濕潤者發生率為8.7%、乾燥者為82.4%。舌頭濕潤但開口者發生率為28.6%。","剝離上皮膜為口腔內所見附著物，痰及乾燥痰、脫落上皮等形成的結痂。大部分發生在非經口進食（即插管）、口乾症及一直口呼吸的患者，該附著物若未清除，令其自行剝離，將造成口腔受傷，出血、併發感染症、並造成窒息及吸入性肺炎的風險。","2020年日本社會保險增加『非經口進食患者口腔黏膜處置』給付。","台灣目前對於口腔照護給付，只有《長期照顧服務申請及給付辦法》的「照顧及專業服務」裡規定「刷牙洗臉」這個項目，並涵蓋在基本日常照顧眾多例行性事務底下。以致口腔照護的整體質量不足，自無法顧及剝離上皮細胞膜症狀的預防。","基於前述理由，請健保建立「非經口進食、乾口症及口呼吸高風險族群之剝離上皮細胞膜專業評估機制」並訂定「『非經口進食患者口腔黏膜處置』指引及保險給付項目」。","參、長照專業賦能納入私立住宿式老人機構、護理機構、榮民之家","老人福利法第36條第1項規定：「經許可設立私立老人福利機構者，應於三個月內辦理財團法人登記。但小型設立且符合下列各款情形者，得免辦財團法人登記：一、不對外募捐。二、不接受補助。三、不享受租稅減免。」其後段即界定小型機構係屬以營利為目的私人設立之機構，別於公共設立長期照顧機構，並據限制其享有募捐、補助、租稅減免之權益。104年長期照顧服務法公布實施，當時規定現有住宿式服務機構要在5年內要公共化為長照法人登記，否則不能從事服務，意謂要強制將私人事業單位轉為公共化。由於本法有政府侵犯私人財產權之疑慮，造成嚴重爭議，遂於106年再次修法為：新設立機構的要作法人登記，既有的私人機構維持其登記型態，僅規定其實際執行長照服務人員之認證、繼續教育、登錄及處罰，適用長照服務法的規定。","前述住宿式服務機構係屬私人，而不得受以公共機構待遇的規定。使得長期照顧服務法上路之後，住宿式服務使用者（即住民）在亦因此尚失使用長期照顧服務的權利。該等對住民權利剝奪的政策限制實不合宜。","當下台灣計有1,923家住宿式服務機構，現行入住者估計有94,227人，並推估計有10萬位高齡長者有接受住宿式服務的需求。","民國108年政府提出住宿式機構服務使用者補助方案，針對住宿機構的住民所得稅額未達20%者，每人每年給予6萬元補助。自112年起，修正辦法針對長照需要等即達4級以上之住民，不限所得稅額，調整增加補助每人每年12萬元。並且把身心障礙住宿機構、一般護理之家、精神護理之家、榮民之家之住民一併納入為補助對象。該政策具有修正前述住民權利受剝奪之不合理之效果。","但是，住宿費用補助的效果在於減輕住民的經濟壓力，但住民所需要的一切照顧服務尚且全然有賴於機構，於生活照料、依據醫囑之照顧等任務足以擔當，但是卻不足以在「醫療結合長照3.0」的政策脈絡下，「向前銜接社區醫療，延伸銜接長照服務」。就牙科而言，在健保牙科總額規範下居住在家的長期照顧需求，可以申請牙醫師到宅提供口腔醫療服務。進一步延伸財團法人社會福利老人機構、身障機構、可以設置醫療團。牙醫師進駐醫療團後，便可進入該財團法人機構對住民提供口腔醫療服務。但是依老人福利法成立的私立老人機構、護理之家、榮民之家，無法成立醫療團，無法申請到宅牙科醫療服務。使得該機構的住民尚失居家醫療服務的權利。這項權利的剝奪，不是住宿費用補貼所能彌補。","基於同為繳稅義務人、社會保險被保險人，應享有相同待遇。","請研議私立老人機構、護理之家、榮民之家設置醫療團；或以到宅醫療等名義，使牙醫師至機構內對住民提供口腔醫療服務之政策。","肆、結語","綜上所述，提出具體訴求。","一、預防與專業培力：持續推動全民口腔保健措施及口腔危害因子防制宣導；並持續辦理住宿式機構口腔照護工作教育訓練計畫。","二、健全照護與醫療：建立非經口進食、乾口症及口呼吸高風險族群之剝離上皮細胞膜專業評估機制；訂定『非經口進食患者口腔黏膜處置』指引及保險給付項目。","三、落實在宅（機構）醫療：請研議私立老人機構、護理之家、榮民之家設置醫療團；或以到宅醫療等名義，使牙醫師至機構內對住民提供口腔醫療服務之政策。","此係為口腔保健專業團體及住宿式老人機構、護理機構、榮民之家等一線服務團體之共同期待，敬請以書面為具體回應，不勝感荷。"],["主席：再接下來請賴士葆委員質詢，黃秀芳委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-10","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","陳超明","黃建賓","魯明哲","顏寬恒","陳玉珍","林倩綺","林沛祥","黃國昌","林國成","李昆澤","林月琴","賴士葆","黃秀芳","王正旭","盧縣一","李彥秀","楊曜","麥玉珍","廖偉翔","陳菁徽","林淑芬","馬文君","邱若華","蘇巧慧"],"page_start":117,"meetingDate":["2025-05-06"],"gazette_id":"1144201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144201_00004","1144201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第10次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1144201_00004"}}}