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00:00:36,952\n主席我們請這個打造中心的指揮官跟警政署署長麻煩署長還有打造中心指揮官好請問一下這個打造中心具體的工作內容是什麼跟委員報告因為我們是行政院的幕僚協調單位\n\n2\n00:00:38,723 --> 00:01:07,897\n所以我們最主要的工作是各部會有關打仗相關的工作那如果有跨部會的協調的一個需要的話我們會配合行政院的政委然後來跟各部會協調而且管控我們在打仗綱領2.0裡面所有的工作指標好你們在報告裡頭寫到說第三方支付業者電商跟線上遊戲業者啊必須善盡善良管理人的責任對不對\n\n3\n00:01:08,952 --> 00:01:27,926\n這部分的成效怎麼樣?我們現在在這個部分的話是分別有各部門各部會我知道,但是你是一個平台嘛是那成效怎麼樣?目前我們在打電商的部分我們現在打炸的成果就它已經在下降\n\n4\n00:01:28,871 --> 00:01:49,603\n然後有關於剛剛提到第三方支付的部分我們現在還有一些灰色地帶還要處理尤其是在這個我們現在有平台就是所謂的網購平台上面利用第三方支付詐騙的那這個部分我們現在在跟第三方支付的主管機關那他們有善盡善良管理人責任嗎跟委包那個可能要看個案\n\n5\n00:01:50,543 --> 00:02:04,095\n要看個案不是啊你當一個指揮官嘛你整體評價嘛這業者有沒有善盡責任嘛如果沒有善盡責任我們在法規上要怎麼處理在行政上要怎麼處理嘛報委現在依法他一定要善盡責任\n\n6\n00:02:05,396 --> 00:02:10,399\n對啊我知道你報告也寫叫他上進責任啊但是你是指揮官啊你終於可以給現在的狀況給個評價啊說他們還沒有上進啊還沒有做好啊不然那個錢為什麼會一直被騙出去騙出去就叫他上進了然後呢他說我有上進啊可是錢還一直出去一直騙出去我們這指揮官總要有一個態度啊說你這樣做不夠啦\n\n7\n00:02:29,226 --> 00:02:46,371\n跟委員報告我們如果有發現任何的業者他在善盡責任這塊不足的時候我們一定會要求主管機關去處理這句話很好你們要求了多少次跟委員報告我們每個月我們都會每兩個月我們都會有跨部會的協調會議\n\n8\n00:02:47,751 --> 00:03:08,656\n那還有跟地方政府的協調會議所以在每一次的協調會議裡面我們都會列管只要是跟部會執行這些打詐私法有關的我們都會要求那請問第三番之務電商跟線上遊戲業者這一個最沒有善盡善良管理人責任的業者是公開資訊嗎\n\n9\n00:03:10,587 --> 00:03:38,375\n你們可以提醒國人說你用一個第三方智庫扶陷叫他們善盡責任他們都沒有用一個線上遊戲扶陷真的被騙了這個是公開資訊嗎跟委員報告這個部分如果說主管機關有裁罰的話就是公開資訊所以要等主管機關那有匯整到你們這裡來嗎目前我們還沒有收到我們有請主管機關要裁罰這什麼時候開始做的這是打仗司法通過之後我們會要求那你們會公開嗎\n\n10\n00:03:40,472 --> 00:04:04,550\n你們會統計嗎我們會我們會好那你們內部會議的時候會呈現嗎我們會對那內部會議呈現會是公開資訊嗎目前內部會議的資訊我們沒有辦法公開好那我剛剛提到說會診完到內部會議嘛對不對你們這個打造這個中心相關的會議各部會有來的這個會議嘛那這些資訊我可以看得到哪一個第三方置業者從那裡轉走最多錢嗎不要講我啦國人啦國人可以看得到嗎\n\n11\n00:04:10,239 --> 00:04:25,014\n因為跟委報第三方支付業者他轉走錢的前端他還有受詐的那個過程就是詐騙集團本身是利用第三方支付業者對那我可不可以知道哪一個第三方支付業者透過那個出去最多這會不會是公開資訊啊\n\n12\n00:04:26,295 --> 00:04:44,078\n跟委員報告這個部分我們可以跟金管會來研商你們研商一下因為既然你們開會也不是秘密你們也不是秘密會議與會的人也應該蠻多的大家都看過那看過口耳相傳透過那個最危險以後大家不要再用那一種支付了\n\n13\n00:04:44,398 --> 00:04:56,504\n那不可以怕你們知道啊不可以怕你們開胃的知道我們不去開胃的我們都不知道啊那到底可以公開到什麼地步再請你們去研究一下好謝謝委員第二個啊我請問一下這個警政署這個警示帳戶啊就是說有人去用詐騙啊早去派出所早去分局報案嘛去報案之後就報案去跟偵查隊嘛一般都跟偵查隊\n\n14\n00:05:11,845 --> 00:05:25,357\n請問署長你知不知道現在各分局偵查隊今天在辦詐騙的這個員警啊批御本命你知道嗎知道確實是非常嚴重非常嚴重嘛齁所以很多人都不可以去偵查隊嘛對不對沒有錯也不可以去白鴨嘛也不可以去偵查隊因為那個公文往返啦\n\n15\n00:05:31,242 --> 00:05:34,464\n確實是目前的狀況對不對調這個資料調那個資料有時候都跨出警政署都要調來調去都沒辦法結案嘛一個案子都要補很久的民眾也沒辦法諒解說你警察一個創下位把你報案背了久都查不到這個怎麼解決\n\n16\n00:05:48,971 --> 00:06:05,648\n包委員現在對於政黨隊這個警力我們有在做這一個研議補充的這個措施包括如果說有缺有不足的會用替代的這個警力會先補不足未來在訓練的部分\n\n17\n00:06:06,289 --> 00:06:28,939\n啊或者是留住人才的部分會再提高他的業務的工作的簡化或者是這一些提高他的這個行事家庭現在正在營利當中那我們在上次的一個在這邊的一個內委會的時候也有委員做這樣的執行我們在三個月裡面會來研議這個整個的一個一個促進行事的這個區塊加速來做解決這個問題偵查隊同仁喔給我歡迎啦說好啊這樣喔\n\n18\n00:06:34,601 --> 00:06:41,326\n那你們提到2月4號你們現在已經有一些電子化了的一個平台我們直接給它動來以前是紙本現在用電子化就減少這個就是這個公文往返的效率我現在另外一個課題是這樣這個我最近啊在做選民服務的時候啊\n\n19\n00:07:02,964 --> 00:07:13,630\n一堆民眾他就描述他說有一間投資公司啦這投資公司一開始賺20萬又拿著錢又賺50萬又拿著錢他如果說30秒後整群都說你當了詐騙民眾都知道你當了詐騙可是那個人堅持他說我沒有詐騙我沒有被詐騙\n\n20\n00:07:26,516 --> 00:07:47,481\n啊我現在人家跟我說我如果再繼續投入那個錢就可以拿回來了然後全部人阻止他喔那是一個選民服務的場合喔好我現在講的是這個那你到了金融機構以後金融機構我們現在我們現在的客人去嫁郵局啦譬如說我現在幾十萬人去嫁郵局郵局很不便宜嘛就說你錢哪裡來的你怎麼有這個錢啊你怎麼這麼多錢啊問這些問題問題是為什麼有民眾\n\n21\n00:07:56,403 --> 00:08:08,591\n他領了十萬又再領了二十萬又再領了五十萬總共被騙了一兩百萬結果我們的金融機構也是陸陸續續被抓了這警政署你們有辦法做什麼嗎\n\n22\n00:08:26,663 --> 00:08:30,625\n我們的行員我知道他們的功課都有我現在的事也是這樣做的我知道因為我去嫁錢我如果去嫁錢他也會吃垃圾啦這我都知道現在連開戶也很垃圾的他說奇怪你也沒有住一家你也沒有一家吃頭\n\n23\n00:08:46,812 --> 00:08:49,916\n啊你如果早來我們這裡開口,就要問這些問題市長,這都善意了啦好,對,我知道,這個大家都理解,因為走去回到那些詐騙可是我的意思是說,為什麼有那個民眾啊他領了,可能一個年十萬,年二十萬\n\n24\n00:09:04,310 --> 00:09:15,872\n那這個行員可能就提醒他說你這個領了領了可是這個行員看不到他在別的金融機構的記錄嘛對不對他可能這個領十五萬那個領十萬那個領十萬他陸陸續續去領差不多一兩百萬出來系統也不會警示啊現在要怎麼改觀委員現在系統會警示啦\n\n25\n00:09:24,594 --> 00:09:51,229\n現在金管會現在就是對於這些金融機構對於這些警示帳戶有可疑的或透過我們的這個通報的就是有警示的帳戶他就知道說這個虎頭是有可能是做人就是詐騙的這個帳戶有人回錢進來不是他捏錢出去不是回錢進來捏錢出去領錢出去可能就是他會看他的這個領出去的這個動機到底是怎麼樣不是我現在說我在A銀行領了15萬\n\n26\n00:09:54,512 --> 00:10:01,179\n過了一個禮拜我在B銀行領了20萬再過三天我在C銀行領了10萬系統會不會警示\n\n27\n00:10:03,827 --> 00:10:08,952\n這個部分恐怕就如果說不是警示賬戶的話就不會解釋警示賬戶叫什麼被騙的人啦投資詐騙嘛被騙的人要10萬20萬可能分成可能去這間銀行有時那間銀行說你訂在百貨公司要20萬你這個不能再唸喔你這個復營派出所的人說你不能再唸他就回去了嘛\n\n28\n00:10:24,285 --> 00:10:45,061\n他跑去北京這幾個名詞這種投資詐騙一個名詞叫做潛在的被害人他被騙的時間大概長達兩個月或甚至半年以上我們去跟他勸了之後他也認為我們是阻止他投資的對就撐不起來嘛這個區塊我們現在有兩個層次就是我們發現這個就是這潛在被害人我們拍照第一時間就去跟他說你這是詐騙的因為他不想聽的時候我們就把他趕走\n\n29\n00:10:52,648 --> 00:11:11,338\n因為量有時候是多就是員警先第一時間先去去勸不行的時候幹部再去勸再來配合他的家屬去勸不然他就回去了嘛你這間不可以這樣我就去北京借定存我定存出來之後我也是去投資再20萬再投資下去所以到最後那會是一個累積一個數字啦那這種\n\n30\n00:11:13,799 --> 00:11:27,710\n應該有打造中心指揮官在這,這研究一下,因為這種案子現在算蠻多的我覺得這個部分就是有,因為這個部份主要是金融事故,這個各銀行的這個整個連線那些東西我們要提打造中心來研究啦,來研究看這個可以連線嗎因為聽起來很可憐的啦\n\n31\n00:11:33,476 --> 00:11:46,659\n阿他喔我跟他說我跟他說他在說的時候全場的人都知道他是欺凌詐騙喔他還問我說委員你怎麼幫我請律師要請到一個律師我說你律師他還開下去你又再一條就是他不知道啊他自己簽不起來啊所以我說喔你們現在選團做得不錯所以全場的民眾都知道他講的是欺凌詐騙啊可是怕那個人不知道阿我覺得這種現在的狀況啊搞不好還是很嚴重然後到最後就是\n\n32\n00:12:02,014 --> 00:12:09,720\n成立自救會啦到最後也拿不回什麼錢啦我跟委員報告我把委員今天這個執行議題非常好我們把這個潛在備案拿到行政院去做專報我們在這個議題有請行政院做專報要來做怎麼樣各部會來做一起來共同解決好最後一個課題主席再給我三分鐘就是說我們現在有加一個人要去參加什麼員工旅遊去泰國\n\n33\n00:12:30,199 --> 00:12:39,783\n阿瑪對朋友的公司去泰國的公寓喔,到這裡幾公里再去不是泰國的地方嘛,跑去的什麼園區裡面就對了我們在機場啊,在台灣的機場,有沒有成功攔下多少人?說你不用去,這團是詐騙的,有沒有能夠攔下來?委員,整團是沒有的,但是個別攔了很多\n\n34\n00:12:54,844 --> 00:13:15,977\n各培就是從今年的元月到四月我們基金我們透過選投透過他要去買票到比較高風險的國家我不要講對的國家高風險的國家東南亞這些國家我們南道的大概目前有幾個南道八九個都各培的但是整團的沒有啦\n\n35\n00:13:17,998 --> 00:13:35,267\n沒有那個整團啊整團目前為止是沒有遇到整團事實上去到東南寮有一些比較這些那個詐團的這個地方平常講他們要去的只是自己本身都知道他出去是要去做詐騙的工作\n\n36\n00:13:38,092 --> 00:13:48,247\n本身就知道他就是要去做詐騙的方法大部分所以說像這種零星個案的這一種是會有但是我們\n\n37\n00:13:49,668 --> 00:13:56,393\n目前為止沒有發現整團,整團都爆起了我聽過一種是這樣,就是說他現在這間公司在辦員工旅遊嘛這個員工他就借他們朋友啊朋友就帶他們公司去員工旅遊,也就是什麼普及島,幾天幾夜的那些都寫得很好聽,去到後面就坐遊覽車嘛我們出國去,我們怎麼知道遊覽車在哪一國,我們搞不清楚啊就坐坐坐,就坐到哪裡去\n\n38\n00:14:16,747 --> 00:14:28,376\n那些人是對他們的朋友去員工旅遊家庭也跟他們說要對他們的朋友出國去旅遊我沒有接受整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團\n\n39\n00:14:43,689 --> 00:14:43,849\n我們會努力來繼續做\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9778\t36952\t主席我們請這個打造中心的指揮官跟警政署署長麻煩署長還有打造中心指揮官好請問一下這個打造中心具體的工作內容是什麼跟委員報告因為我們是行政院的幕僚協調單位\n38723\t67897\t所以我們最主要的工作是各部會有關打仗相關的工作那如果有跨部會的協調的一個需要的話我們會配合行政院的政委然後來跟各部會協調而且管控我們在打仗綱領2.0裡面所有的工作指標好你們在報告裡頭寫到說第三方支付業者電商跟線上遊戲業者啊必須善盡善良管理人的責任對不對\n68952\t87926\t這部分的成效怎麼樣?我們現在在這個部分的話是分別有各部門各部會我知道,但是你是一個平台嘛是那成效怎麼樣?目前我們在打電商的部分我們現在打炸的成果就它已經在下降\n88871\t109603\t然後有關於剛剛提到第三方支付的部分我們現在還有一些灰色地帶還要處理尤其是在這個我們現在有平台就是所謂的網購平台上面利用第三方支付詐騙的那這個部分我們現在在跟第三方支付的主管機關那他們有善盡善良管理人責任嗎跟委包那個可能要看個案\n110543\t124095\t要看個案不是啊 你當一個指揮官嘛你整體評價嘛這業者有沒有善盡責任嘛如果沒有善盡責任我們在法規上要怎麼處理在行政上要怎麼處理嘛報委現在依法他一定要善盡責任\n125396\t130399\t對啊我知道你報告也寫叫他上進責任啊但是你是指揮官啊你終於可以給現在的狀況給個評價啊說他們還沒有上進啊還沒有做好啊不然那個錢為什麼會一直被騙出去騙出去就叫他上進了然後呢他說我有上進啊可是錢還一直出去一直騙出去我們這指揮官總要有一個態度啊說你這樣做不夠啦\n149226\t166371\t跟委員報告我們如果有發現任何的業者他在善盡責任這塊不足的時候我們一定會要求主管機關去處理這句話很好你們要求了多少次跟委員報告我們每個月我們都會每兩個月我們都會有跨部會的協調會議\n167751\t188656\t那還有跟地方政府的協調會議所以在每一次的協調會議裡面我們都會列管只要是跟部會執行這些打詐私法有關的我們都會要求那請問第三番之務電商跟線上遊戲業者這一個最沒有善盡善良管理人責任的業者是公開資訊嗎\n190587\t218375\t你們可以提醒國人說 你用一個第三方智庫扶陷叫他們善盡責任 他們都沒有用一個線上遊戲扶陷 真的被騙了這個是公開資訊嗎跟委員報告 這個部分如果說主管機關有裁罰的話就是公開資訊所以要等主管機關那有匯整到你們這裡來嗎目前我們還沒有收到 我們有請主管機關要裁罰這什麼時候開始做的這是打仗司法 通過之後我們會要求那你們會公開嗎\n220472\t244550\t你們會統計嗎我們會我們會好 那你們內部會議的時候會呈現嗎我們會 對那內部會議呈現會是公開資訊嗎目前內部會議的資訊我們沒有辦法公開好 那我剛剛提到說會診完到內部會議嘛 對不對你們這個打造這個中心相關的會議各部會有來的這個會議嘛那這些資訊我可以看得到哪一個第三方置業者從那裡轉走最多錢嗎不要講我啦 國人啦國人可以看得到嗎\n250239\t265014\t因為跟委報第三方支付業者他轉走錢的前端他還有受詐的那個過程就是詐騙集團本身是利用第三方支付業者對 那我可不可以知道哪一個第三方支付業者透過那個出去最多這會不會是公開資訊啊\n266295\t284078\t跟委員報告這個部分我們可以跟金管會來研商你們研商一下因為既然你們開會也不是秘密你們也不是秘密會議與會的人也應該蠻多的大家都看過那看過口耳相傳透過那個最危險以後大家不要再用那一種支付了\n284398\t296504\t那不可以怕你們知道啊 不可以怕你們開胃的知道我們不去開胃的我們都不知道啊那到底可以公開到什麼地步 再請你們去研究一下好 謝謝委員第二個啊 我請問一下這個警政署這個警示帳戶啊 就是說有人去用詐騙啊早去派出所 早去分局報案嘛去報案之後就報案去跟偵查隊嘛 一般都跟偵查隊\n311845\t325357\t請問署長你知不知道現在各分局偵查隊今天在辦詐騙的這個員警啊 批御本命你知道嗎知道 確實是非常嚴重非常嚴重嘛齁 所以很多人都不可以去偵查隊嘛 對不對沒有錯也不可以去白鴨嘛 也不可以去偵查隊因為那個公文往返啦\n331242\t334464\t確實是目前的狀況對不對 調這個資料 調那個資料有時候都跨出警政署 都要調來調去都沒辦法結案嘛 一個案子都要補很久的民眾也沒辦法諒解 說你警察一個創下位 把你報案背了久 都查不到這個怎麼解決\n348971\t365648\t包委員現在對於政黨隊這個警力我們有在做這一個研議補充的這個措施包括如果說有缺有不足的會用替代的這個警力會先補不足未來在訓練的部分\n366289\t388939\t啊或者是留住人才的部分會再提高他的業務的工作的簡化或者是這一些提高他的這個行事家庭現在正在營利當中那我們在上次的一個在這邊的一個內委會的時候也有委員做這樣的執行我們在三個月裡面會來研議這個整個的一個一個促進行事的這個區塊加速來做解決這個問題偵查隊同仁喔 給我歡迎啦 說好啊這樣喔\n394601\t401326\t那你們提到2月4號你們現在已經有一些電子化了的一個平台我們直接給它動來以前是紙本現在用電子化就減少這個就是這個公文往返的效率我現在另外一個課題是這樣這個我最近啊在做選民服務的時候啊\n422964\t433630\t一堆民眾 他就描述 他說有一間投資公司啦這投資公司一開始賺20萬 又拿著錢 又賺50萬 又拿著錢他如果說30秒後 整群都說你當了詐騙民眾都知道 你當了詐騙 可是那個人堅持他說我沒有詐騙 我沒有被詐騙\n446516\t467481\t啊我現在人家跟我說我如果再繼續投入那個錢就可以拿回來了然後全部人阻止他喔那是一個選民服務的場合喔好我現在講的是這個那你到了金融機構以後金融機構我們現在我們現在的客人去嫁郵局啦譬如說我現在幾十萬人去嫁郵局郵局很不便宜嘛就說你錢哪裡來的你怎麼有這個錢啊你怎麼這麼多錢啊問這些問題問題是為什麼有民眾\n476403\t488591\t他領了十萬 又再領了二十萬 又再領了五十萬總共被騙了一兩百萬結果我們的金融機構 也是陸陸續續被抓了這警政署你們有辦法做什麼嗎\n506663\t510625\t我們的行員我知道 他們的功課都有我現在的事也是這樣做的我知道 因為我去嫁錢 我如果去嫁錢他也會吃垃圾啦 這我都知道現在連開戶也很垃圾的 他說奇怪 你也沒有住一家 你也沒有一家吃頭\n526812\t529916\t啊你如果早來我們這裡開口,就要問這些問題市長,這都善意了啦好,對,我知道,這個大家都理解,因為走去回到那些詐騙可是我的意思是說,為什麼有那個民眾啊他領了,可能一個年十萬,年二十萬\n544310\t555872\t那這個行員可能就提醒他說你這個領了領了可是這個行員看不到他在別的金融機構的記錄嘛對不對他可能這個領十五萬 那個領十萬 那個領十萬他陸陸續續去領差不多一兩百萬出來系統也不會警示啊 現在要怎麼改觀委員現在系統會警示啦\n564594\t591229\t現在金管會現在就是對於這些金融機構對於這些警示帳戶有可疑的或透過我們的這個通報的就是有警示的帳戶他就知道說這個虎頭是有可能是做人就是詐騙的這個帳戶有人回錢進來不是 他捏錢出去不是回錢進來捏錢出去 領錢出去可能就是他會看他的這個領出去的這個動機到底是怎麼樣不是 我現在說我在A銀行領了15萬\n594512\t601179\t過了一個禮拜我在B銀行領了20萬再過三天我在C銀行領了10萬系統會不會警示\n603827\t608952\t這個部分恐怕就 如果說不是警示賬戶的話就不會解釋警示賬戶叫什麼被騙的人啦 投資詐騙嘛被騙的人要10萬 20萬 可能分成 可能去這間銀行有時那間銀行說你訂在百貨公司要20萬你這個不能再唸喔 你這個復營派出所的人說你不能再唸 他就回去了嘛\n624285\t645061\t他跑去北京這幾個名詞 這種投資詐騙一個名詞叫做潛在的被害人他被騙的時間大概長達兩個月或甚至半年以上我們去跟他勸了之後他也認為我們是阻止他投資的對就撐不起來嘛這個區塊我們現在有兩個層次就是我們發現這個就是這潛在被害人我們拍照第一時間就去跟他說你這是詐騙的因為他不想聽的時候我們就把他趕走\n652648\t671338\t因為量有時候是多 就是員警先 第一時間先去去勸不行的時候幹部再去勸 再來配合他的家屬去勸不然他就回去了嘛 你這間不可以這樣我就去北京借定存 我定存出來之後我也是去投資 再20萬 再投資下去所以到最後那會是一個累積一個數字啦那這種\n673799\t687710\t應該有打造中心指揮官在這,這研究一下,因為這種案子現在算蠻多的我覺得這個部分就是有,因為這個部份主要是金融事故,這個各銀行的這個整個連線那些東西我們要提打造中心來研究啦,來研究看這個可以連線嗎因為聽起來很可憐的啦\n693476\t706659\t阿他喔 我跟他說 我跟他說他在說的時候 全場的人都知道他是欺凌詐騙喔他還問我說 委員你怎麼幫我請律師 要請到一個律師我說你律師他還開下去 你又再一條就是他不知道啊 他自己簽不起來啊所以我說喔 你們現在選團做得不錯所以全場的民眾都知道他講的是欺凌詐騙啊可是怕那個人不知道阿我覺得這種現在的狀況啊 搞不好還是很嚴重然後到最後就是\n722014\t729720\t成立自救會啦 到最後也拿不回什麼錢啦我跟委員報告 我把委員今天這個執行議題非常好我們把這個潛在備案拿到行政院去做專報我們在這個議題有請行政院做專報要來做怎麼樣各部會來做一起來共同解決好 最後一個課題 主席再給我三分鐘就是說我們現在有加一個人要去參加什麼員工旅遊 去泰國\n750199\t759783\t阿瑪對朋友的公司去泰國的公寓喔,到這裡幾公里再去不是泰國的地方嘛,跑去的什麼園區裡面就對了我們在機場啊,在台灣的機場,有沒有成功攔下多少人?說你不用去,這團是詐騙的,有沒有能夠攔下來?委員,整團是沒有的,但是個別攔了很多\n774844\t795977\t各培就是從今年的元月到四月我們基金我們透過選投透過他要去買票到比較高風險的國家我不要講對的國家高風險的國家 東南亞這些國家我們南道的大概目前有幾個南道八九個都各培的但是整團的沒有啦\n797998\t815267\t沒有那個整團啊整團目前為止是沒有遇到整團事實上去到東南寮有一些比較這些那個詐團的這個地方平常講他們要去的只是自己本身都知道他出去是要去做詐騙的工作\n818092\t828247\t本身就知道他就是要去做詐騙的方法大部分所以說像這種零星個案的這一種是會有但是我們\n829668\t836393\t目前為止沒有發現整團,整團都爆起了我聽過一種是這樣,就是說他現在這間公司在辦員工旅遊嘛這個員工他就借他們朋友啊朋友就帶他們公司去員工旅遊,也就是什麼普及島,幾天幾夜的那些都寫得很好聽,去到後面就坐遊覽車嘛我們出國去,我們怎麼知道遊覽車在哪一國,我們搞不清楚啊就坐坐坐,就坐到哪裡去\n856747\t868376\t那些人是對他們的朋友去員工旅遊 家庭也跟他們說要對他們的朋友出國去旅遊我沒有接受整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團\n883689\t883849\t我們會努力來繼續做\n","txt":"主席我們請這個打造中心的指揮官跟警政署署長麻煩署長還有打造中心指揮官好請問一下這個打造中心具體的工作內容是什麼跟委員報告因為我們是行政院的幕僚協調單位\n所以我們最主要的工作是各部會有關打仗相關的工作那如果有跨部會的協調的一個需要的話我們會配合行政院的政委然後來跟各部會協調而且管控我們在打仗綱領2.0裡面所有的工作指標好你們在報告裡頭寫到說第三方支付業者電商跟線上遊戲業者啊必須善盡善良管理人的責任對不對\n這部分的成效怎麼樣?我們現在在這個部分的話是分別有各部門各部會我知道,但是你是一個平台嘛是那成效怎麼樣?目前我們在打電商的部分我們現在打炸的成果就它已經在下降\n然後有關於剛剛提到第三方支付的部分我們現在還有一些灰色地帶還要處理尤其是在這個我們現在有平台就是所謂的網購平台上面利用第三方支付詐騙的那這個部分我們現在在跟第三方支付的主管機關那他們有善盡善良管理人責任嗎跟委包那個可能要看個案\n要看個案不是啊 你當一個指揮官嘛你整體評價嘛這業者有沒有善盡責任嘛如果沒有善盡責任我們在法規上要怎麼處理在行政上要怎麼處理嘛報委現在依法他一定要善盡責任\n對啊我知道你報告也寫叫他上進責任啊但是你是指揮官啊你終於可以給現在的狀況給個評價啊說他們還沒有上進啊還沒有做好啊不然那個錢為什麼會一直被騙出去騙出去就叫他上進了然後呢他說我有上進啊可是錢還一直出去一直騙出去我們這指揮官總要有一個態度啊說你這樣做不夠啦\n跟委員報告我們如果有發現任何的業者他在善盡責任這塊不足的時候我們一定會要求主管機關去處理這句話很好你們要求了多少次跟委員報告我們每個月我們都會每兩個月我們都會有跨部會的協調會議\n那還有跟地方政府的協調會議所以在每一次的協調會議裡面我們都會列管只要是跟部會執行這些打詐私法有關的我們都會要求那請問第三番之務電商跟線上遊戲業者這一個最沒有善盡善良管理人責任的業者是公開資訊嗎\n你們可以提醒國人說 你用一個第三方智庫扶陷叫他們善盡責任 他們都沒有用一個線上遊戲扶陷 真的被騙了這個是公開資訊嗎跟委員報告 這個部分如果說主管機關有裁罰的話就是公開資訊所以要等主管機關那有匯整到你們這裡來嗎目前我們還沒有收到 我們有請主管機關要裁罰這什麼時候開始做的這是打仗司法 通過之後我們會要求那你們會公開嗎\n你們會統計嗎我們會我們會好 那你們內部會議的時候會呈現嗎我們會 對那內部會議呈現會是公開資訊嗎目前內部會議的資訊我們沒有辦法公開好 那我剛剛提到說會診完到內部會議嘛 對不對你們這個打造這個中心相關的會議各部會有來的這個會議嘛那這些資訊我可以看得到哪一個第三方置業者從那裡轉走最多錢嗎不要講我啦 國人啦國人可以看得到嗎\n因為跟委報第三方支付業者他轉走錢的前端他還有受詐的那個過程就是詐騙集團本身是利用第三方支付業者對 那我可不可以知道哪一個第三方支付業者透過那個出去最多這會不會是公開資訊啊\n跟委員報告這個部分我們可以跟金管會來研商你們研商一下因為既然你們開會也不是秘密你們也不是秘密會議與會的人也應該蠻多的大家都看過那看過口耳相傳透過那個最危險以後大家不要再用那一種支付了\n那不可以怕你們知道啊 不可以怕你們開胃的知道我們不去開胃的我們都不知道啊那到底可以公開到什麼地步 再請你們去研究一下好 謝謝委員第二個啊 我請問一下這個警政署這個警示帳戶啊 就是說有人去用詐騙啊早去派出所 早去分局報案嘛去報案之後就報案去跟偵查隊嘛 一般都跟偵查隊\n請問署長你知不知道現在各分局偵查隊今天在辦詐騙的這個員警啊 批御本命你知道嗎知道 確實是非常嚴重非常嚴重嘛齁 所以很多人都不可以去偵查隊嘛 對不對沒有錯也不可以去白鴨嘛 也不可以去偵查隊因為那個公文往返啦\n確實是目前的狀況對不對 調這個資料 調那個資料有時候都跨出警政署 都要調來調去都沒辦法結案嘛 一個案子都要補很久的民眾也沒辦法諒解 說你警察一個創下位 把你報案背了久 都查不到這個怎麼解決\n包委員現在對於政黨隊這個警力我們有在做這一個研議補充的這個措施包括如果說有缺有不足的會用替代的這個警力會先補不足未來在訓練的部分\n啊或者是留住人才的部分會再提高他的業務的工作的簡化或者是這一些提高他的這個行事家庭現在正在營利當中那我們在上次的一個在這邊的一個內委會的時候也有委員做這樣的執行我們在三個月裡面會來研議這個整個的一個一個促進行事的這個區塊加速來做解決這個問題偵查隊同仁喔 給我歡迎啦 說好啊這樣喔\n那你們提到2月4號你們現在已經有一些電子化了的一個平台我們直接給它動來以前是紙本現在用電子化就減少這個就是這個公文往返的效率我現在另外一個課題是這樣這個我最近啊在做選民服務的時候啊\n一堆民眾 他就描述 他說有一間投資公司啦這投資公司一開始賺20萬 又拿著錢 又賺50萬 又拿著錢他如果說30秒後 整群都說你當了詐騙民眾都知道 你當了詐騙 可是那個人堅持他說我沒有詐騙 我沒有被詐騙\n啊我現在人家跟我說我如果再繼續投入那個錢就可以拿回來了然後全部人阻止他喔那是一個選民服務的場合喔好我現在講的是這個那你到了金融機構以後金融機構我們現在我們現在的客人去嫁郵局啦譬如說我現在幾十萬人去嫁郵局郵局很不便宜嘛就說你錢哪裡來的你怎麼有這個錢啊你怎麼這麼多錢啊問這些問題問題是為什麼有民眾\n他領了十萬 又再領了二十萬 又再領了五十萬總共被騙了一兩百萬結果我們的金融機構 也是陸陸續續被抓了這警政署你們有辦法做什麼嗎\n我們的行員我知道 他們的功課都有我現在的事也是這樣做的我知道 因為我去嫁錢 我如果去嫁錢他也會吃垃圾啦 這我都知道現在連開戶也很垃圾的 他說奇怪 你也沒有住一家 你也沒有一家吃頭\n啊你如果早來我們這裡開口,就要問這些問題市長,這都善意了啦好,對,我知道,這個大家都理解,因為走去回到那些詐騙可是我的意思是說,為什麼有那個民眾啊他領了,可能一個年十萬,年二十萬\n那這個行員可能就提醒他說你這個領了領了可是這個行員看不到他在別的金融機構的記錄嘛對不對他可能這個領十五萬 那個領十萬 那個領十萬他陸陸續續去領差不多一兩百萬出來系統也不會警示啊 現在要怎麼改觀委員現在系統會警示啦\n現在金管會現在就是對於這些金融機構對於這些警示帳戶有可疑的或透過我們的這個通報的就是有警示的帳戶他就知道說這個虎頭是有可能是做人就是詐騙的這個帳戶有人回錢進來不是 他捏錢出去不是回錢進來捏錢出去 領錢出去可能就是他會看他的這個領出去的這個動機到底是怎麼樣不是 我現在說我在A銀行領了15萬\n過了一個禮拜我在B銀行領了20萬再過三天我在C銀行領了10萬系統會不會警示\n這個部分恐怕就 如果說不是警示賬戶的話就不會解釋警示賬戶叫什麼被騙的人啦 投資詐騙嘛被騙的人要10萬 20萬 可能分成 可能去這間銀行有時那間銀行說你訂在百貨公司要20萬你這個不能再唸喔 你這個復營派出所的人說你不能再唸 他就回去了嘛\n他跑去北京這幾個名詞 這種投資詐騙一個名詞叫做潛在的被害人他被騙的時間大概長達兩個月或甚至半年以上我們去跟他勸了之後他也認為我們是阻止他投資的對就撐不起來嘛這個區塊我們現在有兩個層次就是我們發現這個就是這潛在被害人我們拍照第一時間就去跟他說你這是詐騙的因為他不想聽的時候我們就把他趕走\n因為量有時候是多 就是員警先 第一時間先去去勸不行的時候幹部再去勸 再來配合他的家屬去勸不然他就回去了嘛 你這間不可以這樣我就去北京借定存 我定存出來之後我也是去投資 再20萬 再投資下去所以到最後那會是一個累積一個數字啦那這種\n應該有打造中心指揮官在這,這研究一下,因為這種案子現在算蠻多的我覺得這個部分就是有,因為這個部份主要是金融事故,這個各銀行的這個整個連線那些東西我們要提打造中心來研究啦,來研究看這個可以連線嗎因為聽起來很可憐的啦\n阿他喔 我跟他說 我跟他說他在說的時候 全場的人都知道他是欺凌詐騙喔他還問我說 委員你怎麼幫我請律師 要請到一個律師我說你律師他還開下去 你又再一條就是他不知道啊 他自己簽不起來啊所以我說喔 你們現在選團做得不錯所以全場的民眾都知道他講的是欺凌詐騙啊可是怕那個人不知道阿我覺得這種現在的狀況啊 搞不好還是很嚴重然後到最後就是\n成立自救會啦 到最後也拿不回什麼錢啦我跟委員報告 我把委員今天這個執行議題非常好我們把這個潛在備案拿到行政院去做專報我們在這個議題有請行政院做專報要來做怎麼樣各部會來做一起來共同解決好 最後一個課題 主席再給我三分鐘就是說我們現在有加一個人要去參加什麼員工旅遊 去泰國\n阿瑪對朋友的公司去泰國的公寓喔,到這裡幾公里再去不是泰國的地方嘛,跑去的什麼園區裡面就對了我們在機場啊,在台灣的機場,有沒有成功攔下多少人?說你不用去,這團是詐騙的,有沒有能夠攔下來?委員,整團是沒有的,但是個別攔了很多\n各培就是從今年的元月到四月我們基金我們透過選投透過他要去買票到比較高風險的國家我不要講對的國家高風險的國家 東南亞這些國家我們南道的大概目前有幾個南道八九個都各培的但是整團的沒有啦\n沒有那個整團啊整團目前為止是沒有遇到整團事實上去到東南寮有一些比較這些那個詐團的這個地方平常講他們要去的只是自己本身都知道他出去是要去做詐騙的工作\n本身就知道他就是要去做詐騙的方法大部分所以說像這種零星個案的這一種是會有但是我們\n目前為止沒有發現整團,整團都爆起了我聽過一種是這樣,就是說他現在這間公司在辦員工旅遊嘛這個員工他就借他們朋友啊朋友就帶他們公司去員工旅遊,也就是什麼普及島,幾天幾夜的那些都寫得很好聽,去到後面就坐遊覽車嘛我們出國去,我們怎麼知道遊覽車在哪一國,我們搞不清楚啊就坐坐坐,就坐到哪裡去\n那些人是對他們的朋友去員工旅遊 家庭也跟他們說要對他們的朋友出國去旅遊我沒有接受整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團\n我們會努力來繼續做\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.778 --> 00:36.952\n主席我們請這個打造中心的指揮官跟警政署署長麻煩署長還有打造中心指揮官好請問一下這個打造中心具體的工作內容是什麼跟委員報告因為我們是行政院的幕僚協調單位\n\n00:38.723 --> 01:07.897\n所以我們最主要的工作是各部會有關打仗相關的工作那如果有跨部會的協調的一個需要的話我們會配合行政院的政委然後來跟各部會協調而且管控我們在打仗綱領2.0裡面所有的工作指標好你們在報告裡頭寫到說第三方支付業者電商跟線上遊戲業者啊必須善盡善良管理人的責任對不對\n\n01:08.952 --> 01:27.926\n這部分的成效怎麼樣?我們現在在這個部分的話是分別有各部門各部會我知道,但是你是一個平台嘛是那成效怎麼樣?目前我們在打電商的部分我們現在打炸的成果就它已經在下降\n\n01:28.871 --> 01:49.603\n然後有關於剛剛提到第三方支付的部分我們現在還有一些灰色地帶還要處理尤其是在這個我們現在有平台就是所謂的網購平台上面利用第三方支付詐騙的那這個部分我們現在在跟第三方支付的主管機關那他們有善盡善良管理人責任嗎跟委包那個可能要看個案\n\n01:50.543 --> 02:04.095\n要看個案不是啊你當一個指揮官嘛你整體評價嘛這業者有沒有善盡責任嘛如果沒有善盡責任我們在法規上要怎麼處理在行政上要怎麼處理嘛報委現在依法他一定要善盡責任\n\n02:05.396 --> 02:10.399\n對啊我知道你報告也寫叫他上進責任啊但是你是指揮官啊你終於可以給現在的狀況給個評價啊說他們還沒有上進啊還沒有做好啊不然那個錢為什麼會一直被騙出去騙出去就叫他上進了然後呢他說我有上進啊可是錢還一直出去一直騙出去我們這指揮官總要有一個態度啊說你這樣做不夠啦\n\n02:29.226 --> 02:46.371\n跟委員報告我們如果有發現任何的業者他在善盡責任這塊不足的時候我們一定會要求主管機關去處理這句話很好你們要求了多少次跟委員報告我們每個月我們都會每兩個月我們都會有跨部會的協調會議\n\n02:47.751 --> 03:08.656\n那還有跟地方政府的協調會議所以在每一次的協調會議裡面我們都會列管只要是跟部會執行這些打詐私法有關的我們都會要求那請問第三番之務電商跟線上遊戲業者這一個最沒有善盡善良管理人責任的業者是公開資訊嗎\n\n03:10.587 --> 03:38.375\n你們可以提醒國人說你用一個第三方智庫扶陷叫他們善盡責任他們都沒有用一個線上遊戲扶陷真的被騙了這個是公開資訊嗎跟委員報告這個部分如果說主管機關有裁罰的話就是公開資訊所以要等主管機關那有匯整到你們這裡來嗎目前我們還沒有收到我們有請主管機關要裁罰這什麼時候開始做的這是打仗司法通過之後我們會要求那你們會公開嗎\n\n03:40.472 --> 04:04.550\n你們會統計嗎我們會我們會好那你們內部會議的時候會呈現嗎我們會對那內部會議呈現會是公開資訊嗎目前內部會議的資訊我們沒有辦法公開好那我剛剛提到說會診完到內部會議嘛對不對你們這個打造這個中心相關的會議各部會有來的這個會議嘛那這些資訊我可以看得到哪一個第三方置業者從那裡轉走最多錢嗎不要講我啦國人啦國人可以看得到嗎\n\n04:10.239 --> 04:25.014\n因為跟委報第三方支付業者他轉走錢的前端他還有受詐的那個過程就是詐騙集團本身是利用第三方支付業者對那我可不可以知道哪一個第三方支付業者透過那個出去最多這會不會是公開資訊啊\n\n04:26.295 --> 04:44.078\n跟委員報告這個部分我們可以跟金管會來研商你們研商一下因為既然你們開會也不是秘密你們也不是秘密會議與會的人也應該蠻多的大家都看過那看過口耳相傳透過那個最危險以後大家不要再用那一種支付了\n\n04:44.398 --> 04:56.504\n那不可以怕你們知道啊不可以怕你們開胃的知道我們不去開胃的我們都不知道啊那到底可以公開到什麼地步再請你們去研究一下好謝謝委員第二個啊我請問一下這個警政署這個警示帳戶啊就是說有人去用詐騙啊早去派出所早去分局報案嘛去報案之後就報案去跟偵查隊嘛一般都跟偵查隊\n\n05:11.845 --> 05:25.357\n請問署長你知不知道現在各分局偵查隊今天在辦詐騙的這個員警啊批御本命你知道嗎知道確實是非常嚴重非常嚴重嘛齁所以很多人都不可以去偵查隊嘛對不對沒有錯也不可以去白鴨嘛也不可以去偵查隊因為那個公文往返啦\n\n05:31.242 --> 05:34.464\n確實是目前的狀況對不對調這個資料調那個資料有時候都跨出警政署都要調來調去都沒辦法結案嘛一個案子都要補很久的民眾也沒辦法諒解說你警察一個創下位把你報案背了久都查不到這個怎麼解決\n\n05:48.971 --> 06:05.648\n包委員現在對於政黨隊這個警力我們有在做這一個研議補充的這個措施包括如果說有缺有不足的會用替代的這個警力會先補不足未來在訓練的部分\n\n06:06.289 --> 06:28.939\n啊或者是留住人才的部分會再提高他的業務的工作的簡化或者是這一些提高他的這個行事家庭現在正在營利當中那我們在上次的一個在這邊的一個內委會的時候也有委員做這樣的執行我們在三個月裡面會來研議這個整個的一個一個促進行事的這個區塊加速來做解決這個問題偵查隊同仁喔給我歡迎啦說好啊這樣喔\n\n06:34.601 --> 06:41.326\n那你們提到2月4號你們現在已經有一些電子化了的一個平台我們直接給它動來以前是紙本現在用電子化就減少這個就是這個公文往返的效率我現在另外一個課題是這樣這個我最近啊在做選民服務的時候啊\n\n07:02.964 --> 07:13.630\n一堆民眾他就描述他說有一間投資公司啦這投資公司一開始賺20萬又拿著錢又賺50萬又拿著錢他如果說30秒後整群都說你當了詐騙民眾都知道你當了詐騙可是那個人堅持他說我沒有詐騙我沒有被詐騙\n\n07:26.516 --> 07:47.481\n啊我現在人家跟我說我如果再繼續投入那個錢就可以拿回來了然後全部人阻止他喔那是一個選民服務的場合喔好我現在講的是這個那你到了金融機構以後金融機構我們現在我們現在的客人去嫁郵局啦譬如說我現在幾十萬人去嫁郵局郵局很不便宜嘛就說你錢哪裡來的你怎麼有這個錢啊你怎麼這麼多錢啊問這些問題問題是為什麼有民眾\n\n07:56.403 --> 08:08.591\n他領了十萬又再領了二十萬又再領了五十萬總共被騙了一兩百萬結果我們的金融機構也是陸陸續續被抓了這警政署你們有辦法做什麼嗎\n\n08:26.663 --> 08:30.625\n我們的行員我知道他們的功課都有我現在的事也是這樣做的我知道因為我去嫁錢我如果去嫁錢他也會吃垃圾啦這我都知道現在連開戶也很垃圾的他說奇怪你也沒有住一家你也沒有一家吃頭\n\n08:46.812 --> 08:49.916\n啊你如果早來我們這裡開口,就要問這些問題市長,這都善意了啦好,對,我知道,這個大家都理解,因為走去回到那些詐騙可是我的意思是說,為什麼有那個民眾啊他領了,可能一個年十萬,年二十萬\n\n09:04.310 --> 09:15.872\n那這個行員可能就提醒他說你這個領了領了可是這個行員看不到他在別的金融機構的記錄嘛對不對他可能這個領十五萬那個領十萬那個領十萬他陸陸續續去領差不多一兩百萬出來系統也不會警示啊現在要怎麼改觀委員現在系統會警示啦\n\n09:24.594 --> 09:51.229\n現在金管會現在就是對於這些金融機構對於這些警示帳戶有可疑的或透過我們的這個通報的就是有警示的帳戶他就知道說這個虎頭是有可能是做人就是詐騙的這個帳戶有人回錢進來不是他捏錢出去不是回錢進來捏錢出去領錢出去可能就是他會看他的這個領出去的這個動機到底是怎麼樣不是我現在說我在A銀行領了15萬\n\n09:54.512 --> 10:01.179\n過了一個禮拜我在B銀行領了20萬再過三天我在C銀行領了10萬系統會不會警示\n\n10:03.827 --> 10:08.952\n這個部分恐怕就如果說不是警示賬戶的話就不會解釋警示賬戶叫什麼被騙的人啦投資詐騙嘛被騙的人要10萬20萬可能分成可能去這間銀行有時那間銀行說你訂在百貨公司要20萬你這個不能再唸喔你這個復營派出所的人說你不能再唸他就回去了嘛\n\n10:24.285 --> 10:45.061\n他跑去北京這幾個名詞這種投資詐騙一個名詞叫做潛在的被害人他被騙的時間大概長達兩個月或甚至半年以上我們去跟他勸了之後他也認為我們是阻止他投資的對就撐不起來嘛這個區塊我們現在有兩個層次就是我們發現這個就是這潛在被害人我們拍照第一時間就去跟他說你這是詐騙的因為他不想聽的時候我們就把他趕走\n\n10:52.648 --> 11:11.338\n因為量有時候是多就是員警先第一時間先去去勸不行的時候幹部再去勸再來配合他的家屬去勸不然他就回去了嘛你這間不可以這樣我就去北京借定存我定存出來之後我也是去投資再20萬再投資下去所以到最後那會是一個累積一個數字啦那這種\n\n11:13.799 --> 11:27.710\n應該有打造中心指揮官在這,這研究一下,因為這種案子現在算蠻多的我覺得這個部分就是有,因為這個部份主要是金融事故,這個各銀行的這個整個連線那些東西我們要提打造中心來研究啦,來研究看這個可以連線嗎因為聽起來很可憐的啦\n\n11:33.476 --> 11:46.659\n阿他喔我跟他說我跟他說他在說的時候全場的人都知道他是欺凌詐騙喔他還問我說委員你怎麼幫我請律師要請到一個律師我說你律師他還開下去你又再一條就是他不知道啊他自己簽不起來啊所以我說喔你們現在選團做得不錯所以全場的民眾都知道他講的是欺凌詐騙啊可是怕那個人不知道阿我覺得這種現在的狀況啊搞不好還是很嚴重然後到最後就是\n\n12:02.014 --> 12:09.720\n成立自救會啦到最後也拿不回什麼錢啦我跟委員報告我把委員今天這個執行議題非常好我們把這個潛在備案拿到行政院去做專報我們在這個議題有請行政院做專報要來做怎麼樣各部會來做一起來共同解決好最後一個課題主席再給我三分鐘就是說我們現在有加一個人要去參加什麼員工旅遊去泰國\n\n12:30.199 --> 12:39.783\n阿瑪對朋友的公司去泰國的公寓喔,到這裡幾公里再去不是泰國的地方嘛,跑去的什麼園區裡面就對了我們在機場啊,在台灣的機場,有沒有成功攔下多少人?說你不用去,這團是詐騙的,有沒有能夠攔下來?委員,整團是沒有的,但是個別攔了很多\n\n12:54.844 --> 13:15.977\n各培就是從今年的元月到四月我們基金我們透過選投透過他要去買票到比較高風險的國家我不要講對的國家高風險的國家東南亞這些國家我們南道的大概目前有幾個南道八九個都各培的但是整團的沒有啦\n\n13:17.998 --> 13:35.267\n沒有那個整團啊整團目前為止是沒有遇到整團事實上去到東南寮有一些比較這些那個詐團的這個地方平常講他們要去的只是自己本身都知道他出去是要去做詐騙的工作\n\n13:38.092 --> 13:48.247\n本身就知道他就是要去做詐騙的方法大部分所以說像這種零星個案的這一種是會有但是我們\n\n13:49.668 --> 13:56.393\n目前為止沒有發現整團,整團都爆起了我聽過一種是這樣,就是說他現在這間公司在辦員工旅遊嘛這個員工他就借他們朋友啊朋友就帶他們公司去員工旅遊,也就是什麼普及島,幾天幾夜的那些都寫得很好聽,去到後面就坐遊覽車嘛我們出國去,我們怎麼知道遊覽車在哪一國,我們搞不清楚啊就坐坐坐,就坐到哪裡去\n\n14:16.747 --> 14:28.376\n那些人是對他們的朋友去員工旅遊家庭也跟他們說要對他們的朋友出國去旅遊我沒有接受整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團的簿整團\n\n14:43.689 --> 14:43.849\n我們會努力來繼續做\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.778,"end":36.952,"text":"主席我們請這個打造中心的指揮官跟警政署署長麻煩署長還有打造中心指揮官好請問一下這個打造中心具體的工作內容是什麼跟委員報告因為我們是行政院的幕僚協調單位"},{"start":38.723,"end":67.897,"text":"所以我們最主要的工作是各部會有關打仗相關的工作那如果有跨部會的協調的一個需要的話我們會配合行政院的政委然後來跟各部會協調而且管控我們在打仗綱領2.0裡面所有的工作指標好你們在報告裡頭寫到說第三方支付業者電商跟線上遊戲業者啊必須善盡善良管理人的責任對不對"},{"start":68.952,"end":87.926,"text":"這部分的成效怎麼樣?我們現在在這個部分的話是分別有各部門各部會我知道,但是你是一個平台嘛是那成效怎麼樣?目前我們在打電商的部分我們現在打炸的成果就它已經在下降"},{"start":88.871,"end":109.603,"text":"然後有關於剛剛提到第三方支付的部分我們現在還有一些灰色地帶還要處理尤其是在這個我們現在有平台就是所謂的網購平台上面利用第三方支付詐騙的那這個部分我們現在在跟第三方支付的主管機關那他們有善盡善良管理人責任嗎跟委包那個可能要看個案"},{"start":110.543,"end":124.095,"text":"要看個案不是啊 你當一個指揮官嘛你整體評價嘛這業者有沒有善盡責任嘛如果沒有善盡責任我們在法規上要怎麼處理在行政上要怎麼處理嘛報委現在依法他一定要善盡責任"},{"start":125.396,"end":130.399,"text":"對啊我知道你報告也寫叫他上進責任啊但是你是指揮官啊你終於可以給現在的狀況給個評價啊說他們還沒有上進啊還沒有做好啊不然那個錢為什麼會一直被騙出去騙出去就叫他上進了然後呢他說我有上進啊可是錢還一直出去一直騙出去我們這指揮官總要有一個態度啊說你這樣做不夠啦"},{"start":149.226,"end":166.371,"text":"跟委員報告我們如果有發現任何的業者他在善盡責任這塊不足的時候我們一定會要求主管機關去處理這句話很好你們要求了多少次跟委員報告我們每個月我們都會每兩個月我們都會有跨部會的協調會議"},{"start":167.751,"end":188.656,"text":"那還有跟地方政府的協調會議所以在每一次的協調會議裡面我們都會列管只要是跟部會執行這些打詐私法有關的我們都會要求那請問第三番之務電商跟線上遊戲業者這一個最沒有善盡善良管理人責任的業者是公開資訊嗎"},{"start":190.587,"end":218.375,"text":"你們可以提醒國人說 你用一個第三方智庫扶陷叫他們善盡責任 他們都沒有用一個線上遊戲扶陷 真的被騙了這個是公開資訊嗎跟委員報告 這個部分如果說主管機關有裁罰的話就是公開資訊所以要等主管機關那有匯整到你們這裡來嗎目前我們還沒有收到 我們有請主管機關要裁罰這什麼時候開始做的這是打仗司法 通過之後我們會要求那你們會公開嗎"},{"start":220.472,"end":244.55,"text":"你們會統計嗎我們會我們會好 那你們內部會議的時候會呈現嗎我們會 對那內部會議呈現會是公開資訊嗎目前內部會議的資訊我們沒有辦法公開好 那我剛剛提到說會診完到內部會議嘛 對不對你們這個打造這個中心相關的會議各部會有來的這個會議嘛那這些資訊我可以看得到哪一個第三方置業者從那裡轉走最多錢嗎不要講我啦 國人啦國人可以看得到嗎"},{"start":250.239,"end":265.014,"text":"因為跟委報第三方支付業者他轉走錢的前端他還有受詐的那個過程就是詐騙集團本身是利用第三方支付業者對 那我可不可以知道哪一個第三方支付業者透過那個出去最多這會不會是公開資訊啊"},{"start":266.295,"end":284.078,"text":"跟委員報告這個部分我們可以跟金管會來研商你們研商一下因為既然你們開會也不是秘密你們也不是秘密會議與會的人也應該蠻多的大家都看過那看過口耳相傳透過那個最危險以後大家不要再用那一種支付了"},{"start":284.398,"end":296.504,"text":"那不可以怕你們知道啊 不可以怕你們開胃的知道我們不去開胃的我們都不知道啊那到底可以公開到什麼地步 再請你們去研究一下好 謝謝委員第二個啊 我請問一下這個警政署這個警示帳戶啊 就是說有人去用詐騙啊早去派出所 早去分局報案嘛去報案之後就報案去跟偵查隊嘛 一般都跟偵查隊"},{"start":311.845,"end":325.357,"text":"請問署長你知不知道現在各分局偵查隊今天在辦詐騙的這個員警啊 批御本命你知道嗎知道 確實是非常嚴重非常嚴重嘛齁 所以很多人都不可以去偵查隊嘛 對不對沒有錯也不可以去白鴨嘛 也不可以去偵查隊因為那個公文往返啦"},{"start":331.242,"end":334.464,"text":"確實是目前的狀況對不對 調這個資料 調那個資料有時候都跨出警政署 都要調來調去都沒辦法結案嘛 一個案子都要補很久的民眾也沒辦法諒解 說你警察一個創下位 把你報案背了久 都查不到這個怎麼解決"},{"start":348.971,"end":365.648,"text":"包委員現在對於政黨隊這個警力我們有在做這一個研議補充的這個措施包括如果說有缺有不足的會用替代的這個警力會先補不足未來在訓練的部分"},{"start":366.289,"end":388.939,"text":"啊或者是留住人才的部分會再提高他的業務的工作的簡化或者是這一些提高他的這個行事家庭現在正在營利當中那我們在上次的一個在這邊的一個內委會的時候也有委員做這樣的執行我們在三個月裡面會來研議這個整個的一個一個促進行事的這個區塊加速來做解決這個問題偵查隊同仁喔 給我歡迎啦 說好啊這樣喔"},{"start":394.601,"end":401.326,"text":"那你們提到2月4號你們現在已經有一些電子化了的一個平台我們直接給它動來以前是紙本現在用電子化就減少這個就是這個公文往返的效率我現在另外一個課題是這樣這個我最近啊在做選民服務的時候啊"},{"start":422.964,"end":433.63,"text":"一堆民眾 他就描述 他說有一間投資公司啦這投資公司一開始賺20萬 又拿著錢 又賺50萬 又拿著錢他如果說30秒後 整群都說你當了詐騙民眾都知道 你當了詐騙 可是那個人堅持他說我沒有詐騙 我沒有被詐騙"},{"start":446.516,"end":467.481,"text":"啊我現在人家跟我說我如果再繼續投入那個錢就可以拿回來了然後全部人阻止他喔那是一個選民服務的場合喔好我現在講的是這個那你到了金融機構以後金融機構我們現在我們現在的客人去嫁郵局啦譬如說我現在幾十萬人去嫁郵局郵局很不便宜嘛就說你錢哪裡來的你怎麼有這個錢啊你怎麼這麼多錢啊問這些問題問題是為什麼有民眾"},{"start":476.403,"end":488.591,"text":"他領了十萬 又再領了二十萬 又再領了五十萬總共被騙了一兩百萬結果我們的金融機構 也是陸陸續續被抓了這警政署你們有辦法做什麼嗎"},{"start":506.663,"end":510.625,"text":"我們的行員我知道 他們的功課都有我現在的事也是這樣做的我知道 因為我去嫁錢 我如果去嫁錢他也會吃垃圾啦 這我都知道現在連開戶也很垃圾的 他說奇怪 你也沒有住一家 你也沒有一家吃頭"},{"start":526.812,"end":529.916,"text":"啊你如果早來我們這裡開口,就要問這些問題市長,這都善意了啦好,對,我知道,這個大家都理解,因為走去回到那些詐騙可是我的意思是說,為什麼有那個民眾啊他領了,可能一個年十萬,年二十萬"},{"start":544.31,"end":555.872,"text":"那這個行員可能就提醒他說你這個領了領了可是這個行員看不到他在別的金融機構的記錄嘛對不對他可能這個領十五萬 那個領十萬 那個領十萬他陸陸續續去領差不多一兩百萬出來系統也不會警示啊 現在要怎麼改觀委員現在系統會警示啦"},{"start":564.594,"end":591.229,"text":"現在金管會現在就是對於這些金融機構對於這些警示帳戶有可疑的或透過我們的這個通報的就是有警示的帳戶他就知道說這個虎頭是有可能是做人就是詐騙的這個帳戶有人回錢進來不是 他捏錢出去不是回錢進來捏錢出去 領錢出去可能就是他會看他的這個領出去的這個動機到底是怎麼樣不是 我現在說我在A銀行領了15萬"},{"start":594.512,"end":601.179,"text":"過了一個禮拜我在B銀行領了20萬再過三天我在C銀行領了10萬系統會不會警示"},{"start":603.827,"end":608.952,"text":"這個部分恐怕就 如果說不是警示賬戶的話就不會解釋警示賬戶叫什麼被騙的人啦 投資詐騙嘛被騙的人要10萬 20萬 可能分成 可能去這間銀行有時那間銀行說你訂在百貨公司要20萬你這個不能再唸喔 你這個復營派出所的人說你不能再唸 他就回去了嘛"},{"start":624.285,"end":645.061,"text":"他跑去北京這幾個名詞 這種投資詐騙一個名詞叫做潛在的被害人他被騙的時間大概長達兩個月或甚至半年以上我們去跟他勸了之後他也認為我們是阻止他投資的對就撐不起來嘛這個區塊我們現在有兩個層次就是我們發現這個就是這潛在被害人我們拍照第一時間就去跟他說你這是詐騙的因為他不想聽的時候我們就把他趕走"},{"start":652.648,"end":671.338,"text":"因為量有時候是多 就是員警先 第一時間先去去勸不行的時候幹部再去勸 再來配合他的家屬去勸不然他就回去了嘛 你這間不可以這樣我就去北京借定存 我定存出來之後我也是去投資 再20萬 再投資下去所以到最後那會是一個累積一個數字啦那這種"},{"start":673.799,"end":687.71,"text":"應該有打造中心指揮官在這,這研究一下,因為這種案子現在算蠻多的我覺得這個部分就是有,因為這個部份主要是金融事故,這個各銀行的這個整個連線那些東西我們要提打造中心來研究啦,來研究看這個可以連線嗎因為聽起來很可憐的啦"},{"start":693.476,"end":706.659,"text":"阿他喔 我跟他說 我跟他說他在說的時候 全場的人都知道他是欺凌詐騙喔他還問我說 委員你怎麼幫我請律師 要請到一個律師我說你律師他還開下去 你又再一條就是他不知道啊 他自己簽不起來啊所以我說喔 你們現在選團做得不錯所以全場的民眾都知道他講的是欺凌詐騙啊可是怕那個人不知道阿我覺得這種現在的狀況啊 搞不好還是很嚴重然後到最後就是"},{"start":722.014,"end":729.72,"text":"成立自救會啦 到最後也拿不回什麼錢啦我跟委員報告 我把委員今天這個執行議題非常好我們把這個潛在備案拿到行政院去做專報我們在這個議題有請行政院做專報要來做怎麼樣各部會來做一起來共同解決好 最後一個課題 主席再給我三分鐘就是說我們現在有加一個人要去參加什麼員工旅遊 去泰國"},{"start":750.199,"end":759.783,"text":"阿瑪對朋友的公司去泰國的公寓喔,到這裡幾公里再去不是泰國的地方嘛,跑去的什麼園區裡面就對了我們在機場啊,在台灣的機場,有沒有成功攔下多少人?說你不用去,這團是詐騙的,有沒有能夠攔下來?委員,整團是沒有的,但是個別攔了很多"},{"start":774.844,"end":795.977,"text":"各培就是從今年的元月到四月我們基金我們透過選投透過他要去買票到比較高風險的國家我不要講對的國家高風險的國家 東南亞這些國家我們南道的大概目前有幾個南道八九個都各培的但是整團的沒有啦"},{"start":797.998,"end":815.267,"text":"沒有那個整團啊整團目前為止是沒有遇到整團事實上去到東南寮有一些比較這些那個詐團的這個地方平常講他們要去的只是自己本身都知道他出去是要去做詐騙的工作"},{"start":818.092,"end":828.247,"text":"本身就知道他就是要去做詐騙的方法大部分所以說像這種零星個案的這一種是會有但是我們"},{"start":829.668,"end":836.393,"text":"目前為止沒有發現整團,整團都爆起了我聽過一種是這樣,就是說他現在這間公司在辦員工旅遊嘛這個員工他就借他們朋友啊朋友就帶他們公司去員工旅遊,也就是什麼普及島,幾天幾夜的那些都寫得很好聽,去到後面就坐遊覽車嘛我們出國去,我們怎麼知道遊覽車在哪一國,我們搞不清楚啊就坐坐坐,就坐到哪裡去"},{"start":856.747,"end":868.376,"text":"那些人是對他們的朋友去員工旅遊 家庭也跟他們說要對他們的朋友出國去旅遊我沒有接受整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團的簿 整團"},{"start":883.689,"end":883.849,"text":"我們會努力來繼續做"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":573,"blocks":[["王委員義川：（9時27分）主席，我們請打詐中心的指揮官跟警政署署長。"],["主席：麻煩署長還有打詐中心。"],["馬指揮官士元：召委早、委員早安。"],["王委員義川：指揮官好。請問一下打詐中心具體的工作內容是什麼？"],["馬指揮官士元：跟委員報告，因為我們是行政院的幕僚協調單位，所以我們最主要的工作是各部會有關打詐相關的工作，如果有跨部會協調的需要，我們會配合行政院的政委來跟各部會協調，而且管控我們在打詐綱領2.0裡面所有的工作指標。"],["王委員義川：好，你們在報告裡頭寫到第三方支付業者、電商跟線上遊戲業者必須善盡善良管理人的責任，對不對？這部分的成效怎麼樣？"],["馬指揮官士元：跟委員報告，我們現在在這個部分是分別由各部門、各部會……"],["王委員義川：我知道，但是你是一個平臺嘛！"],["馬指揮官士元：是。"],["王委員義川：成效怎麼樣？"],["馬指揮官士元：目前在打電商的部分，我們現在打詐的成果是它已經在下降，有關於剛剛提到第三方支付的部分，我們現在還有一些灰色地帶還要處理，尤其是現在有所謂的網購平臺上面利用第三方支付詐騙的，這個部分我們現在在跟第三方支付的主管機關……"],["王委員義川：他們有善盡善良管理人責任嗎？"],["馬指揮官士元：跟委員報告，那個可能要看個案，因為……"],["王委員義川：不是，你當一個指揮官，你整體評價業者有沒有善盡責任嘛？如果沒有善盡責任，我們在法規上要怎麼處理、在行政上要怎麼處理？"],["馬指揮官士元：報告委員，現在依法它一定要善盡責任。"],["王委員義川：我知道它要善盡責任，你報告也寫叫它善盡責任，但是你是指揮官，你總可以給現在的狀況一個評價，說他們還沒有善盡、還沒有做好啊，不然那個錢為什麼會一直被騙出去，就叫它善盡責任了，然後它說它有善盡，可是錢還一直出去、一直騙出去。我們的指揮官總要有一個態度，說他們這樣做不夠啦！"],["馬指揮官士元：跟委員報告，我們如果有發現任何的業者在善盡責任這塊不足的時候，我們一定會要求主管機關去處理。"],["王委員義川：好，這句話很好！你們要求了多少次？對方做了什麼事？"],["馬指揮官士元：跟委員報告，每兩個月我們都會有跨部會的協調會議，還有跟地方政府的協調會議，所以在每一次的協調會議裡面，我們都會列管，只要是跟部會執行打詐四法有關的，我們都會要求。"],["王委員義川：好。請問第三方支付電商跟線上遊戲業者最沒有善盡善良管理人責任的業者是公開資訊嗎？你們可以提醒國人用哪一個第三方支付有危險，叫他們善盡責任，他們都沒有；玩哪一個線上遊戲有危險，錢會被騙走。這個是公開資訊嗎？"],["馬指揮官士元：跟委員報告，這個部分如果主管機關有裁罰的話，就是公開資訊，所以要等主管機關裁罰。"],["王委員義川：有彙整到你們這裡來嗎？"],["馬指揮官士元：目前我們還沒有收到，我們有請主管機關要裁罰。"],["王委員義川：這什麼時候開始做的？"],["馬指揮官士元：這是打詐四法通過之後，我們會要求，已經在要求了。"],["王委員義川：你們會公開嗎？你們會統計嘛！"],["馬指揮官士元：我們會。"],["王委員義川：好，你們內部會議的時候會呈現嗎？"],["馬指揮官士元：我們會。"],["王委員義川：內部會議呈現會是公開資訊嗎？"],["馬指揮官士元：目前內部會議的資訊，我們沒有辦法公開。"],["王委員義川：好，我剛剛提到彙整完到內部會議，你們打詐中心相關的會議，各部會有來的這個會議，這些資訊我可以看得到哪一個第三方支付業者從那裡轉走最多錢嗎？不要講我，就說國人，國人可以看得到嗎？"],["馬指揮官士元：跟委員報告，因為第三方支付業者轉走錢的前端，它還有受詐的那個過程，就是詐騙集團本身是利用第三方支付業者。"],["王委員義川：對，我可不可以知道哪一個第三方支付業者，透過那個出去最多？這會不會是公開資訊？"],["馬指揮官士元：跟委員報告，有關這個部分，我們可以跟數發部來研商。"],["王委員義川：好，你們研商一下，因為既然你們開會也不是秘密，你們也不是秘密會議，與會的人也應該滿多的，大家都看過，看過口耳相傳，知道透過那個最危險，以後大家不要再用那一種支付了，這不能只有你們知道，不能只有你們開會知道，我們沒去開會，我們都不知道。到底可以公開到什麼地步，再請你們去研究一下。"],["馬指揮官士元：好，謝謝委員。"],["王委員義川：第二個，我請問一下警政署。"],["張署長榮興：委員好。"],["王委員義川：警示帳戶，就是有人被詐騙，跑去派出所、跑去分局報案，報案之後，案件就到偵察隊，一般都是到偵察隊，請問署長知不知道現在各分局偵察隊在辦詐騙的員警疲於奔命，你知道嗎？"],["張署長榮興：知道，確實是非常嚴重。"],["王委員義川：非常嚴重嘛！所以很多人都不要去偵察隊對吧？"],["張署長榮興：沒有錯。"],["王委員義川：寧願去別的地方，也不要去偵察隊，因為公文往返……"],["張署長榮興：確實是目前的狀況。"],["王委員義川：調這個資料、調那個資料，有時候都跨出警政署，在那邊調來調去都沒辦法結案，一個案子都要弄很久，民眾也沒辦法諒解你們警察在做什麼，跟你們報案報那麼久了都查不到，這個怎麼解決？"],["張署長榮興：報告委員，現在對於偵察隊的警力，我們有在研議補充的措施，包括如果有缺額不足的，會用替代的警力先補不足，未來在訓練的部分或者是留住人才的部分，會再提高他業務工作的簡化或者是提高他的刑事加給，現在正在研擬當中。我們上次在內委會這邊的時候，也有委員做這樣的質詢，我們在三個月裡面會研議整個促進刑事的這個區塊……"],["王委員義川：好，加速啦！"],["張署長榮興：加速解決這個問題。"],["王委員義川：不然偵察隊同仁跟我反映詐騙的事件一直來報案，他們又不是不辦，但是會文給各單位，各單位再回來都要時間。"],["張署長榮興：對，稍微要一點時間。"],["王委員義川：要一點時間嘛！你們提到2月4日，你們現在已經有一些電子化的平臺，可以直接把它擋下來。"],["張署長榮興：對，以前是紙本，現在用電子化，減少公文往返的時間，增加效率。"],["王委員義川：好，我現在另外一個課題是這樣，我最近在做選民服務的時候，一堆民眾就描述，他說有一間投資公司，他一開始對那間投資公司投入20萬，都有領到錢，再來又投入50萬，也有領到錢。他差不多說了30秒以後，整群人都說他遇到詐騙，民眾都知道他遇到詐騙，可是那個人堅持他沒有被詐騙。現在人家跟他說他如果再繼續投入，那個錢就可以拿回來了，然後全部的人都阻止他，那是一個選民服務的場合。我現在講的是這個，到了金融機構以後，像我們現在把錢存在郵局，譬如我拿幾十萬到郵局存，郵局很囉唆，會問錢從哪裡來、怎麼有這麼多錢等，都問這些問題，問題是為什麼有民眾領了10萬，再領20萬，又再領50萬，總共被騙了1、200萬，結果我們的金融機構也是讓他陸陸續續領出去，這部分警政署有辦法幫忙嗎？"],["張署長榮興：有啦！報告委員，現在有關金融機構的阻詐，我們跟金管會有合作，當行員覺得這有詐騙現象時，第一時間一定會通知派出所到達現場解決。"],["王委員義川：行員的部分我知道，這……"],["張署長榮興：他們會通知派出所到現場處理。"],["王委員義川：對，這個你們的廣告都有，我都知道。"],["張署長榮興：現在也都是這樣做。"],["王委員義川：對，我知道、我知道，因為我去存錢，他們都很囉唆，這我都知道，現在連開戶也很囉唆，他會說：奇怪！你又沒有住在這裡，也沒有在這裡工作，怎麼會跑來我們這裡開戶？他會問這些問題……"],["張署長榮興：委員，這都是善意的。"],["王委員義川：對，我知道，這個大家都理解，因為怕遇到詐騙，但我的意思是，為什麼有民眾可能一天領10萬、20萬，這樣陸陸續續慢慢領，行員可能有提醒他，但是行員看不到他在別的金融機構的紀錄，對不對？他可能這裡領15萬，那裡領10萬，陸陸續續差不多領了1、200萬出來，系統也不會警示，這要怎麼解決？"],["張署長榮興：沒有，委員，現在系統會警示，金管會現在對於金融機構會有這些警示帳戶，就是有可疑的或透過我們通報的，就有警示帳戶，然後它就知道這個戶頭有可能是詐騙帳戶，有人匯錢進來……"],["王委員義川：不是，他是領錢出去，不是匯錢進來。"],["張署長榮興：領錢出去，可能也會看領出去的動機到底是怎麼樣，會看他的動機。"],["王委員義川：譬如我在A銀行領了15萬，過了一個禮拜，在B銀行領了20萬，再過三天，在C銀行領了10萬，系統會不會警示？"],["張署長榮興：這個部分恐怕……如果不是警示帳戶，就不會警示，要警示帳戶才可以。"],["王委員義川：對嘛！因為是投資詐騙，被騙的人領10萬、20萬，可能還是去這間銀行領錢，銀行會告訴他上禮拜才領20萬，有危險性，不要再領了等等，然後派出所也勸他不要再領，所以他就回去了，但他跑去別間金融機構啊！"],["張署長榮興：委員，這有一個名詞，這種投資詐騙的一個名詞叫「潛在的被害人」，他被騙的時間大概長達兩個月或甚至半年以上，我們勸他的時候，他也認為我們是阻止他投資，他就醒不過來啊！"],["王委員義川：這部分要怎麼處理？"],["張署長榮興：這個區塊我們現在有兩個層次，就是我們發現潛在被害人時，派出所第一時間會跟他說這是詐騙，他如果不聽，會改由我們的幹部前往。因為數量多的時候，會由員警第一時間先勸，勸不醒的時候，幹部再去勸，再來就是配合他的家屬去勸。"],["王委員義川：不是，因為這間銀行不讓他領，他就去別間解定存，定存解出來之後，也是20萬再投資下去，到最後會是一個累積的數字。現在打詐中心的指揮官也在場，這部分應該要研究一下，因為這種案子現在算蠻多的。"],["張署長榮興：這部分主要涉及金融機構各銀行的連線要重新規劃，我們會把問題提到打詐中心，研究看看這塊是否可以連線。"],["王委員義川：因為這聽起來很可憐，全場的人都知道他被詐騙，他還問我說：委員，你可不可以幫我請律師，要請哪一個律師？我只能回說請律師你又要再花一筆錢。"],["張署長榮興：就是他不知道，他自己醒不起來啊！"],["王委員義川：其實你們現在宣傳做得不錯，全場民眾都知道他就是被詐騙……"],["張署長榮興：沒有錯。"],["王委員義川：就只有那個人不知道，我覺得這種狀況還是很嚴重，到最後就只能成立自救會，也拿不回什麼錢啊！"],["張署長榮興：委員今天這個質詢議題非常好，我們也有把這個潛在被害人的問題提到行政院做專報，由各部會一起討論，共同來解決。"],["王委員義川：好，最後一個問題，就是現在有很多人參加員工旅遊到泰國去，有的是跟朋友的公司到泰國員工旅遊，下車之後，整群被載到不是泰國的什麼園區，請問，我們在臺灣的機場有沒有成功攔下這些人，要他們不要去，告訴他們這一團是詐騙的？有沒有攔下來的？"],["張署長榮興：委員，團體是沒有，但是個別攔了很多，從今年元月到4月，我們在機場透過宣導，如果旅客買票到比較高風險的國家，我不要說是哪個國家，就是高風險的東南亞這些國家，目前航警局給我們的資料顯示，大概攔到8、9位，這些都是個別的。"],["王委員義川：會不會太少了？"],["張署長榮興：團體的沒有啦！沒有整團的，目前為止是沒有遇到整團的，事實上，要到東南亞這些比較是詐團的地方，憑良心講，他們自己本身都知道是出去做詐騙的工作。"],["王委員義川：是喔？"],["張署長榮興：本身就知道是要去做詐騙的工作，大部分啦！"],["王委員義川：噢！大部分喔！"],["張署長榮興：大部分，所以像這種零星個案的會有，但目前為止，我們沒有發現整團去東南亞的。"],["王委員義川：我聽過一種情形，就是公司辦員工旅遊，員工就找朋友一起去，然後朋友就跟著他們公司去員工旅遊，也是什麼普吉島幾天幾夜的，都寫得很好聽，到了之後就坐上遊覽車，我們出國玩，怎麼知道遊覽車在哪一國，我們搞不清楚，然後就坐、坐，不知道坐到哪裡，之後就進去那個園區，那個人是跟著朋友去員工旅遊，家長也覺得是跟著朋友出國玩，這種……"],["張署長榮興：委員，我跟你報告，我們沒有接獲這種整團的報案，整團的沒有。"],["王委員義川：整團的沒有？"],["張署長榮興：沒有啦！整團的沒有，如果是整團，最後新聞都會報出來啊！沒有整團的，就是一些個別零星的。"],["王委員義川：好，我是希望在機場能夠攔阻多少算多少，不然到時候家長又說小孩跟人家去哪裡玩沒有回來，也連絡不到等等。"],["張署長榮興：是，是，我們會繼續努力。"],["王委員義川：OK，謝謝。"],["張署長榮興：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王委員。","下一位請鍾佳濱委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":512,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-15","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","王義川","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","吳思瑤","麥玉珍","李坤城","林月琴","黃珊珊","陳培瑜","莊瑞雄","翁曉玲","林倩綺","沈發惠","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":423,"meetingDate":["2025-05-07"],"gazette_id":"1144601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144601_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心指揮官、內政\n部警政署署長、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、金融監督管理委員會率所屬相關單位列席就\n「臺灣遭聯合國警示為東亞、東南亞跨國詐欺集團據點之檢討與防範，及打詐四法與相關子法施\n行後之具體成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144601_00008"}}}