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{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 581.406, \"end\": 581.426, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 581.426, \"end\": 581.486, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"指\", \"start\": 581.486, \"end\": 581.506, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 581.506, \"end\": 581.526, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 581.526, \"end\": 581.606, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 581.606, \"end\": 581.667, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 581.667, \"end\": 581.767, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 581.767, \"end\": 581.787, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 581.787, \"end\": 581.887, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 581.887, \"end\": 581.907, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"喬\"}, {\"word\": \"和\", \"start\": 581.907, \"end\": 581.987, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 581.987, \"end\": 582.007, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,552 --> 00:00:01,740\n謝謝主席有請經濟部次長\n\n2\n00:00:12,998 --> 00:00:24,027\n委員好市長好我知道今天題目雖然是對喬委會但是我想說其實有蠻多的事情可能經濟部更了解我等一下最後才問喬委會這樣子一開始就是說這一次有新聞報導說美國官員說川普對中國的關稅有四個最終的目標包含這一個\n\n3\n00:00:35,978 --> 00:00:50,040\n終止這個竊取智慧財產權打擊非法傾銷這個惡止匯率的操縱跟減少貿易的赤製那裡面當然對我們最重要的應該是第一個就是竊取智慧財產權因為台灣過往也有被指控過有這樣的一些問題\n\n4\n00:00:51,201 --> 00:01:13,651\n去年的時候也有問過經濟部相關的一些疑問那目前來講呢就是我們之前有在整理就是說這是在日本的狀況那他們有整理各式各樣這種技術流出的型態包含這個海外的輸出啊投資啊有一些合法的方式又或者說透過人才的挖角商業的間諜那這邊所以我想要問經濟部幾件事情就是第一個就是\n\n5\n00:01:14,491 --> 00:01:38,298\n就是我們的國家安全法第三條裡面有規定這個國家核心關鍵技術之營業秘密就是說這一個部分是在保護的範圍那這一次這個我看到邱志偉委員跟黃婕委員有想要把營業秘密拿掉那他的理由是因為說如果今天企業主他自己沒有把它規範在營業秘密裡面但我們又認為它是國家核心關鍵技術\n\n6\n00:01:39,818 --> 00:02:02,357\n那這樣的話呢就沒有辦法被涵蓋到因為畢竟國家核心關鍵技術知營業秘密營業秘密扣在那邊嘛不過法務部就有不同的看法法務部認為說如果你把營業秘密拿掉的話國家核心關鍵技術又會太多所以現在我想知道說以經濟部的立場因為畢竟法務部是就法論法他會知道這個法律的範圍啊什麼等等的大小但以經濟部的看法\n\n7\n00:02:03,098 --> 00:02:25,061\n跟法務部之後如果要對接要討論這一個法案的時候這個到底營業秘密這四個字到底要留還是不留如果不留或者留的話留的話當然就是跟現行法一樣嘛那如果不留又怕太大有沒有任何的方式可以把國家核心關鍵技術把它怎麼講把它擴張解釋也就是說呢讓它不要被現在的法條受限有沒有這樣的一個想法\n\n8\n00:02:26,082 --> 00:02:44,618\n首先我們針對於國家的關鍵技術這個是部分其實我們國家有國科會在做定義對於你剛剛講的包括先進製程我們就以半導體為例的話其實它整個一個製程或是它一個發展相關多的智慧財產必須\n\n9\n00:02:47,677 --> 00:03:15,260\n要去獲得保障他才有辦法持續的進行領先所以經濟部的立場針對於國家核心的關鍵技術確實是要保障針對於智慧營業秘密的這個部分我們目前為止我們經過內部的討論我們是認為說保留原來的這個條文是比較恰當因為有一些它是衍生性的東西\n\n10\n00:03:16,101 --> 00:03:39,926\n所以你若是把它完全的刪除的話其實對於廠商的競爭力來講是會有些影響的對但就是說我們現在害怕的事情就是說以執法來講有營業秘密扣在那邊其實它本來就有精準的定義所以我們到底哪些叫做國家核心關係或是營業秘密這個是很方便的一個做法但如果今天它自己不把它定義成營業秘密的時候那我們要該怎麼辦\n\n11\n00:03:41,286 --> 00:03:57,287\n這個我們必須要在做執法上面跟相關的這個部會去把它所謂的定義的部分更加清楚這個可以落實的話不但是保障我們國家的產業對於個別的這個廠商也是一個保障\n\n12\n00:03:58,769 --> 00:04:22,320\n對剛剛市長這樣的一個講法意思就是說因為我們都把廠商想的就是廠商自己當然是想要保障自己的秘密嘛所以他有營業秘密的規範但因為在滲透日益嚴重的狀況之下又包含現在可能會有這個技術有可能會被竊取又可能會有被滲透在這個狀況之下我們怕的是他廠商自己不把它變成營業秘密那他如果把它變成不是營業秘密的時候那我們在這樣的一個法條的規範上我們該如何\n\n13\n00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:37,960\n廠商會自證或是對於他自己的利益有威脅的這個部分把他取消這個部分當然不排除他可能會有這個原因廠商不是為了自己他在為了別人的時候\n\n14\n00:04:38,821 --> 00:05:01,278\n所以這個時候到底該如何我想說這也是為什麼當時修法會被提出來這樣的一個用意但我也覺得就是說畢竟畢竟因為秘密這個在執法上面是比較方便的一個狀態在各國其實也很多時候都有這樣的規定但是因為台灣現在的狀況比較特殊所以我們在想說就是如果說就算到最後真的要把它刪除的話勢必還是要把國家核心關鍵技術做線索的解釋不然它會很廣嘛\n\n15\n00:05:01,798 --> 00:05:25,198\n當然所以這件事情我覺得是值得討論我也沒有一定的答案那就可能因為這一個上次有已經被我們已經先排過一次有討論過了是在不是在國防外交那我再相信在接下來幾個月尤其在關稅談判的過程當中是可能還是會被討論那我想說經濟部可能做這個準備跟法務部等等之類的可能再做好這個密切的討論這樣到最後我們再下結論的時候可能在立法院這邊呢也比較有充足的資訊\n\n16\n00:05:26,087 --> 00:05:45,104\n是謝謝委員的指導我們無論是執行現有的法規或是未來的修法我們會跟相當單位做好配合針對於國家的利益還有包括廠商他自己的競爭力的部分做好相關的這個防備的這個措施對因為畢竟廠商自己的利益跟國家的利益有時候不一定會align所以這是我們擔心的地方\n\n17\n00:05:45,584 --> 00:06:04,778\n再來就是洗產地這件事情,因為我看到,我先講越南跟泰國,越南跟泰國他們最近有做這一個說要加強檢查,然後避免要發放偽造產地的證明書,泰國也有做一些措施。那我看到這個5月7號,5月7號是不是就是明天?\n\n18\n00:06:05,878 --> 00:06:06,279\n第一防範洗產地\n\n19\n00:06:22,148 --> 00:06:38,180\n我們過去以來包括跟財政部都有很好的配合措施包括加強宣導建立所謂的潛在關鍵的名單然後去監視進出口的這個部分甚至是研發但是若是這個部分做得不確實\n\n20\n00:06:40,382 --> 00:06:54,222\n也可能會影響我們個別的廠商他的產業的發展除此之外對於我們國家的利益也會有影響所以經濟部才會宣布從今天開始我們要自己要做得更好\n\n21\n00:06:55,544 --> 00:07:10,717\n台灣一直是世界各國在所謂的貿易活動裡面是一個我們遵守法尊的這個優等聖我們希望我們自己做更好也不希望說有任何的這個可能性來危害我們國家\n\n22\n00:07:11,858 --> 00:07:27,649\n包括產業的部分對這個我覺得這一次算是反應非常的快因為畢竟我們現在就是要進入到這一個關稅的談判然後我覺得有這樣的事情我覺得在談判的過程當中是非常的有力那這邊因為我有看到說這個為者罪高跟署新台幣300萬的這一個甚至還可以吊銷\n\n23\n00:07:31,158 --> 00:07:45,617\n還可以吊銷再來就是說它有可能也會有燈載不實的問題使公園燈載不實所以我覺得這是一個很好的措施因為畢竟如果說我們在還沒有修法之前在行政端能夠先做出這樣的措施我認為是很有幫助的\n\n24\n00:07:45,998 --> 00:08:15,311\n他又是有違反刑法的話我們還會移送我覺得這是一個非常好的示範所以我是希望說各部會以後都可以像有如此快的一個反應那我們剛剛講的都是比較偏防堵面就是說我們怕說這一個席產地怕說技術被竊取但今天的題目其實更大一部分是在於說要怎麼去協助這些就是他們畢竟現在有一些台商他們現在也在抱怨因為美國的這些措施所以這些協助的部分我相信僑委會是現在首當其衝\n\n25\n00:08:15,931 --> 00:08:24,104\n那我因為只剩一點時間我想問一下那現在溝通的機制就是說經濟部這邊是怎麼去協助僑委會去幫助這些在海外的這些台商\n\n26\n00:08:24,731 --> 00:08:47,592\n首先我們在各個比如說以東南亞國家為例我剛剛在書面報告裡面有講我們有貿易服務中心那除此之外我們駐外的單位我們的經濟組會跟這個僑委會密切的對接而我們會積極的參與我們僑委會所辦理的各項的台商包括是說明會聚會去把這些的訊息披露出來\n\n27\n00:08:48,733 --> 00:09:18,204\n因為我覺得這件事情很重要是因為這樣在談判的一個過程當中美國譬如說他們對於自己在譬如說他們的國家裡面他有關的商人他們現在在做什麼樣的措施他們現在在他這些情報其實也都在他們收集的範圍所以如果說我們今天這個溝通越順暢的話巧合會的幫助是越多的話其實對他們來講他們會知道說原來你們現在不只在談判的過程當中你們已經祭出什麼樣的措施你們在地方上其實都已經在協助自己的商人做\n\n28\n00:09:19,425 --> 00:09:42,007\n這個相關的這些應對的措施這個對他們來講會是重要的資訊經濟部非常感謝喬和會對我們台灣的經濟包括各個財商的這個協助讓我們各住在國所有的台商的經濟的發展都有保持充分的動力好那希望繼續維持那剛剛修法的部分就可能再麻煩次長把他帶回去我們再我覺得認為這幾個月應該會是被密集討論的一個議題好謝謝委員指導好謝謝那今天就來不及問喬和會了\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n552\t1740\t謝謝主席有請經濟部次長\n12998\t24027\t委員好市長好我知道今天題目雖然是對喬委會但是我想說其實有蠻多的事情可能經濟部更了解我等一下最後才問喬委會這樣子一開始就是說這一次有新聞報導說美國官員說川普對中國的關稅有四個最終的目標包含這一個\n35978\t50040\t終止這個竊取智慧財產權打擊非法傾銷這個惡止匯率的操縱跟減少貿易的赤製那裡面當然對我們最重要的應該是第一個就是竊取智慧財產權因為台灣過往也有被指控過有這樣的一些問題\n51201\t73651\t去年的時候也有問過經濟部相關的一些疑問那目前來講呢就是我們之前有在整理就是說這是在日本的狀況那他們有整理各式各樣這種技術流出的型態包含這個海外的輸出啊投資啊有一些合法的方式又或者說透過人才的挖角商業的間諜那這邊所以我想要問經濟部幾件事情就是第一個就是\n74491\t98298\t就是我們的國家安全法第三條裡面有規定這個國家核心關鍵技術之營業秘密就是說這一個部分是在保護的範圍那這一次這個我看到邱志偉委員跟黃婕委員有想要把營業秘密拿掉那他的理由是因為說如果今天企業主他自己沒有把它規範在營業秘密裡面但我們又認為它是國家核心關鍵技術\n99818\t122357\t那這樣的話呢就沒有辦法被涵蓋到因為畢竟國家核心關鍵技術知營業秘密營業秘密扣在那邊嘛不過法務部就有不同的看法法務部認為說如果你把營業秘密拿掉的話國家核心關鍵技術又會太多所以現在我想知道說以經濟部的立場因為畢竟法務部是就法論法他會知道這個法律的範圍啊什麼等等的大小但以經濟部的看法\n123098\t145061\t跟法務部之後如果要對接要討論這一個法案的時候這個到底營業秘密這四個字到底要留還是不留如果不留或者留的話留的話當然就是跟現行法一樣嘛那如果不留又怕太大有沒有任何的方式可以把國家核心關鍵技術把它怎麼講把它擴張解釋也就是說呢讓它不要被現在的法條受限有沒有這樣的一個想法\n146082\t164618\t首先我們針對於國家的關鍵技術這個是部分其實我們國家有國科會在做定義對於你剛剛講的包括先進製程我們就以半導體為例的話其實它整個一個製程或是它一個發展相關多的智慧財產必須\n167677\t195260\t要去獲得保障他才有辦法持續的進行領先所以經濟部的立場針對於國家核心的關鍵技術確實是要保障針對於智慧營業秘密的這個部分我們目前為止我們經過內部的討論我們是認為說保留原來的這個條文是比較恰當因為有一些它是衍生性的東西\n196101\t219926\t所以你若是把它完全的刪除的話其實對於廠商的競爭力來講是會有些影響的對 但就是說我們現在害怕的事情就是說以執法來講有營業秘密扣在那邊其實它本來就有精準的定義所以我們到底哪些叫做國家核心關係或是營業秘密這個是很方便的一個做法但如果今天它自己不把它定義成營業秘密的時候那我們要該怎麼辦\n221286\t237287\t這個我們必須要在做執法上面跟相關的這個部會去把它所謂的定義的部分更加清楚這個可以落實的話不但是保障我們國家的產業對於個別的這個廠商也是一個保障\n238769\t262320\t對 剛剛市長這樣的一個講法意思就是說因為我們都把廠商想的就是廠商自己當然是想要保障自己的秘密嘛所以他有營業秘密的規範但因為在滲透日益嚴重的狀況之下又包含現在可能會有這個技術有可能會被竊取又可能會有被滲透在這個狀況之下我們怕的是他廠商自己不把它變成營業秘密那他如果把它變成不是營業秘密的時候那我們在這樣的一個法條的規範上我們該如何\n264040\t277960\t廠商會自證或是對於他自己的利益有威脅的這個部分把他取消這個部分當然不排除他可能會有這個原因廠商不是為了自己他在為了別人的時候\n278821\t301278\t所以這個時候到底該如何 我想說這也是為什麼當時修法會被提出來這樣的一個用意但我也覺得就是說畢竟畢竟 因為秘密這個在執法上面是比較方便的一個狀態在各國其實也很多時候都有這樣的規定但是因為台灣現在的狀況比較特殊所以我們在想說就是如果說就算到最後真的要把它刪除的話勢必還是要把國家核心關鍵技術做線索的解釋 不然它會很廣嘛\n301798\t325198\t當然所以這件事情我覺得是值得討論我也沒有一定的答案那就可能因為這一個上次有已經被我們已經先排過一次有討論過了是在不是在國防外交那我再相信在接下來幾個月尤其在關稅談判的過程當中是可能還是會被討論那我想說經濟部可能做這個準備跟法務部等等之類的可能再做好這個密切的討論這樣到最後我們再下結論的時候可能在立法院這邊呢也比較有充足的資訊\n326087\t345104\t是謝謝委員的指導我們無論是執行現有的法規或是未來的修法我們會跟相當單位做好配合針對於國家的利益還有包括廠商他自己的競爭力的部分做好相關的這個防備的這個措施對因為畢竟廠商自己的利益跟國家的利益有時候不一定會align所以這是我們擔心的地方\n345584\t364778\t再來就是洗產地這件事情,因為我看到,我先講越南跟泰國,越南跟泰國他們最近有做這一個說要加強檢查,然後避免要發放偽造產地的證明書,泰國也有做一些措施。那我看到這個5月7號,5月7號是不是就是明天?\n365878\t366279\t第一 防範洗產地\n382148\t398180\t我們過去以來包括跟財政部都有很好的配合措施包括加強宣導建立所謂的潛在關鍵的名單然後去監視進出口的這個部分甚至是研發但是若是這個部分做得不確實\n400382\t414222\t也可能會影響我們個別的廠商他的產業的發展除此之外對於我們國家的利益也會有影響所以經濟部才會宣布從今天開始我們要自己要做得更好\n415544\t430717\t台灣一直是世界各國在所謂的貿易活動裡面是一個我們遵守法尊的這個優等聖我們希望我們自己做更好也不希望說有任何的這個可能性來危害我們國家\n431858\t447649\t包括產業的部分對 這個我覺得這一次算是反應非常的快因為畢竟我們現在就是要進入到這一個關稅的談判然後我覺得有這樣的事情我覺得在談判的過程當中是非常的有力那這邊因為我有看到說這個為者罪高跟署新台幣300萬的這一個甚至還可以吊銷\n451158\t465617\t還可以吊銷再來就是說它有可能也會有燈載不實的問題使公園燈載不實所以我覺得這是一個很好的措施因為畢竟如果說我們在還沒有修法之前在行政端能夠先做出這樣的措施我認為是很有幫助的\n465998\t495311\t他又是有違反刑法的話我們還會移送我覺得這是一個非常好的示範所以我是希望說各部會以後都可以像有如此快的一個反應那我們剛剛講的都是比較偏防堵面就是說我們怕說這一個席產地怕說技術被竊取但今天的題目其實更大一部分是在於說要怎麼去協助這些就是他們畢竟現在有一些台商他們現在也在抱怨因為美國的這些措施所以這些協助的部分我相信僑委會是現在首當其衝\n495931\t504104\t那我因為只剩一點時間我想問一下那現在溝通的機制就是說經濟部這邊是怎麼去協助僑委會去幫助這些在海外的這些台商\n504731\t527592\t首先我們在各個比如說以東南亞國家為例我剛剛在書面報告裡面有講我們有貿易服務中心那除此之外我們駐外的單位我們的經濟組會跟這個僑委會密切的對接而我們會積極的參與我們僑委會所辦理的各項的台商包括是說明會 聚會去把這些的訊息披露出來\n528733\t558204\t因為我覺得這件事情很重要是因為這樣在談判的一個過程當中美國譬如說他們對於自己在譬如說他們的國家裡面他有關的商人他們現在在做什麼樣的措施他們現在在他這些情報其實也都在他們收集的範圍所以如果說我們今天這個溝通越順暢的話巧合會的幫助是越多的話其實對他們來講他們會知道說原來你們現在不只在談判的過程當中你們已經祭出什麼樣的措施你們在地方上其實都已經在協助自己的商人做\n559425\t582007\t這個相關的這些應對的措施這個對他們來講會是重要的資訊經濟部非常感謝喬和會對我們台灣的經濟包括各個財商的這個協助讓我們各住在國所有的台商的經濟的發展都有保持充分的動力好那希望繼續維持那剛剛修法的部分就可能再麻煩次長把他帶回去我們再我覺得認為這幾個月應該會是被密集討論的一個議題好謝謝委員指導好謝謝那今天就來不及問喬和會了\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請經濟部次長\n委員好市長好我知道今天題目雖然是對喬委會但是我想說其實有蠻多的事情可能經濟部更了解我等一下最後才問喬委會這樣子一開始就是說這一次有新聞報導說美國官員說川普對中國的關稅有四個最終的目標包含這一個\n終止這個竊取智慧財產權打擊非法傾銷這個惡止匯率的操縱跟減少貿易的赤製那裡面當然對我們最重要的應該是第一個就是竊取智慧財產權因為台灣過往也有被指控過有這樣的一些問題\n去年的時候也有問過經濟部相關的一些疑問那目前來講呢就是我們之前有在整理就是說這是在日本的狀況那他們有整理各式各樣這種技術流出的型態包含這個海外的輸出啊投資啊有一些合法的方式又或者說透過人才的挖角商業的間諜那這邊所以我想要問經濟部幾件事情就是第一個就是\n就是我們的國家安全法第三條裡面有規定這個國家核心關鍵技術之營業秘密就是說這一個部分是在保護的範圍那這一次這個我看到邱志偉委員跟黃婕委員有想要把營業秘密拿掉那他的理由是因為說如果今天企業主他自己沒有把它規範在營業秘密裡面但我們又認為它是國家核心關鍵技術\n那這樣的話呢就沒有辦法被涵蓋到因為畢竟國家核心關鍵技術知營業秘密營業秘密扣在那邊嘛不過法務部就有不同的看法法務部認為說如果你把營業秘密拿掉的話國家核心關鍵技術又會太多所以現在我想知道說以經濟部的立場因為畢竟法務部是就法論法他會知道這個法律的範圍啊什麼等等的大小但以經濟部的看法\n跟法務部之後如果要對接要討論這一個法案的時候這個到底營業秘密這四個字到底要留還是不留如果不留或者留的話留的話當然就是跟現行法一樣嘛那如果不留又怕太大有沒有任何的方式可以把國家核心關鍵技術把它怎麼講把它擴張解釋也就是說呢讓它不要被現在的法條受限有沒有這樣的一個想法\n首先我們針對於國家的關鍵技術這個是部分其實我們國家有國科會在做定義對於你剛剛講的包括先進製程我們就以半導體為例的話其實它整個一個製程或是它一個發展相關多的智慧財產必須\n要去獲得保障他才有辦法持續的進行領先所以經濟部的立場針對於國家核心的關鍵技術確實是要保障針對於智慧營業秘密的這個部分我們目前為止我們經過內部的討論我們是認為說保留原來的這個條文是比較恰當因為有一些它是衍生性的東西\n所以你若是把它完全的刪除的話其實對於廠商的競爭力來講是會有些影響的對 但就是說我們現在害怕的事情就是說以執法來講有營業秘密扣在那邊其實它本來就有精準的定義所以我們到底哪些叫做國家核心關係或是營業秘密這個是很方便的一個做法但如果今天它自己不把它定義成營業秘密的時候那我們要該怎麼辦\n這個我們必須要在做執法上面跟相關的這個部會去把它所謂的定義的部分更加清楚這個可以落實的話不但是保障我們國家的產業對於個別的這個廠商也是一個保障\n對 剛剛市長這樣的一個講法意思就是說因為我們都把廠商想的就是廠商自己當然是想要保障自己的秘密嘛所以他有營業秘密的規範但因為在滲透日益嚴重的狀況之下又包含現在可能會有這個技術有可能會被竊取又可能會有被滲透在這個狀況之下我們怕的是他廠商自己不把它變成營業秘密那他如果把它變成不是營業秘密的時候那我們在這樣的一個法條的規範上我們該如何\n廠商會自證或是對於他自己的利益有威脅的這個部分把他取消這個部分當然不排除他可能會有這個原因廠商不是為了自己他在為了別人的時候\n所以這個時候到底該如何 我想說這也是為什麼當時修法會被提出來這樣的一個用意但我也覺得就是說畢竟畢竟 因為秘密這個在執法上面是比較方便的一個狀態在各國其實也很多時候都有這樣的規定但是因為台灣現在的狀況比較特殊所以我們在想說就是如果說就算到最後真的要把它刪除的話勢必還是要把國家核心關鍵技術做線索的解釋 不然它會很廣嘛\n當然所以這件事情我覺得是值得討論我也沒有一定的答案那就可能因為這一個上次有已經被我們已經先排過一次有討論過了是在不是在國防外交那我再相信在接下來幾個月尤其在關稅談判的過程當中是可能還是會被討論那我想說經濟部可能做這個準備跟法務部等等之類的可能再做好這個密切的討論這樣到最後我們再下結論的時候可能在立法院這邊呢也比較有充足的資訊\n是謝謝委員的指導我們無論是執行現有的法規或是未來的修法我們會跟相當單位做好配合針對於國家的利益還有包括廠商他自己的競爭力的部分做好相關的這個防備的這個措施對因為畢竟廠商自己的利益跟國家的利益有時候不一定會align所以這是我們擔心的地方\n再來就是洗產地這件事情,因為我看到,我先講越南跟泰國,越南跟泰國他們最近有做這一個說要加強檢查,然後避免要發放偽造產地的證明書,泰國也有做一些措施。那我看到這個5月7號,5月7號是不是就是明天?\n第一 防範洗產地\n我們過去以來包括跟財政部都有很好的配合措施包括加強宣導建立所謂的潛在關鍵的名單然後去監視進出口的這個部分甚至是研發但是若是這個部分做得不確實\n也可能會影響我們個別的廠商他的產業的發展除此之外對於我們國家的利益也會有影響所以經濟部才會宣布從今天開始我們要自己要做得更好\n台灣一直是世界各國在所謂的貿易活動裡面是一個我們遵守法尊的這個優等聖我們希望我們自己做更好也不希望說有任何的這個可能性來危害我們國家\n包括產業的部分對 這個我覺得這一次算是反應非常的快因為畢竟我們現在就是要進入到這一個關稅的談判然後我覺得有這樣的事情我覺得在談判的過程當中是非常的有力那這邊因為我有看到說這個為者罪高跟署新台幣300萬的這一個甚至還可以吊銷\n還可以吊銷再來就是說它有可能也會有燈載不實的問題使公園燈載不實所以我覺得這是一個很好的措施因為畢竟如果說我們在還沒有修法之前在行政端能夠先做出這樣的措施我認為是很有幫助的\n他又是有違反刑法的話我們還會移送我覺得這是一個非常好的示範所以我是希望說各部會以後都可以像有如此快的一個反應那我們剛剛講的都是比較偏防堵面就是說我們怕說這一個席產地怕說技術被竊取但今天的題目其實更大一部分是在於說要怎麼去協助這些就是他們畢竟現在有一些台商他們現在也在抱怨因為美國的這些措施所以這些協助的部分我相信僑委會是現在首當其衝\n那我因為只剩一點時間我想問一下那現在溝通的機制就是說經濟部這邊是怎麼去協助僑委會去幫助這些在海外的這些台商\n首先我們在各個比如說以東南亞國家為例我剛剛在書面報告裡面有講我們有貿易服務中心那除此之外我們駐外的單位我們的經濟組會跟這個僑委會密切的對接而我們會積極的參與我們僑委會所辦理的各項的台商包括是說明會 聚會去把這些的訊息披露出來\n因為我覺得這件事情很重要是因為這樣在談判的一個過程當中美國譬如說他們對於自己在譬如說他們的國家裡面他有關的商人他們現在在做什麼樣的措施他們現在在他這些情報其實也都在他們收集的範圍所以如果說我們今天這個溝通越順暢的話巧合會的幫助是越多的話其實對他們來講他們會知道說原來你們現在不只在談判的過程當中你們已經祭出什麼樣的措施你們在地方上其實都已經在協助自己的商人做\n這個相關的這些應對的措施這個對他們來講會是重要的資訊經濟部非常感謝喬和會對我們台灣的經濟包括各個財商的這個協助讓我們各住在國所有的台商的經濟的發展都有保持充分的動力好那希望繼續維持那剛剛修法的部分就可能再麻煩次長把他帶回去我們再我覺得認為這幾個月應該會是被密集討論的一個議題好謝謝委員指導好謝謝那今天就來不及問喬和會了\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.552 --> 00:01.740\n謝謝主席有請經濟部次長\n\n00:12.998 --> 00:24.027\n委員好市長好我知道今天題目雖然是對喬委會但是我想說其實有蠻多的事情可能經濟部更了解我等一下最後才問喬委會這樣子一開始就是說這一次有新聞報導說美國官員說川普對中國的關稅有四個最終的目標包含這一個\n\n00:35.978 --> 00:50.040\n終止這個竊取智慧財產權打擊非法傾銷這個惡止匯率的操縱跟減少貿易的赤製那裡面當然對我們最重要的應該是第一個就是竊取智慧財產權因為台灣過往也有被指控過有這樣的一些問題\n\n00:51.201 --> 01:13.651\n去年的時候也有問過經濟部相關的一些疑問那目前來講呢就是我們之前有在整理就是說這是在日本的狀況那他們有整理各式各樣這種技術流出的型態包含這個海外的輸出啊投資啊有一些合法的方式又或者說透過人才的挖角商業的間諜那這邊所以我想要問經濟部幾件事情就是第一個就是\n\n01:14.491 --> 01:38.298\n就是我們的國家安全法第三條裡面有規定這個國家核心關鍵技術之營業秘密就是說這一個部分是在保護的範圍那這一次這個我看到邱志偉委員跟黃婕委員有想要把營業秘密拿掉那他的理由是因為說如果今天企業主他自己沒有把它規範在營業秘密裡面但我們又認為它是國家核心關鍵技術\n\n01:39.818 --> 02:02.357\n那這樣的話呢就沒有辦法被涵蓋到因為畢竟國家核心關鍵技術知營業秘密營業秘密扣在那邊嘛不過法務部就有不同的看法法務部認為說如果你把營業秘密拿掉的話國家核心關鍵技術又會太多所以現在我想知道說以經濟部的立場因為畢竟法務部是就法論法他會知道這個法律的範圍啊什麼等等的大小但以經濟部的看法\n\n02:03.098 --> 02:25.061\n跟法務部之後如果要對接要討論這一個法案的時候這個到底營業秘密這四個字到底要留還是不留如果不留或者留的話留的話當然就是跟現行法一樣嘛那如果不留又怕太大有沒有任何的方式可以把國家核心關鍵技術把它怎麼講把它擴張解釋也就是說呢讓它不要被現在的法條受限有沒有這樣的一個想法\n\n02:26.082 --> 02:44.618\n首先我們針對於國家的關鍵技術這個是部分其實我們國家有國科會在做定義對於你剛剛講的包括先進製程我們就以半導體為例的話其實它整個一個製程或是它一個發展相關多的智慧財產必須\n\n02:47.677 --> 03:15.260\n要去獲得保障他才有辦法持續的進行領先所以經濟部的立場針對於國家核心的關鍵技術確實是要保障針對於智慧營業秘密的這個部分我們目前為止我們經過內部的討論我們是認為說保留原來的這個條文是比較恰當因為有一些它是衍生性的東西\n\n03:16.101 --> 03:39.926\n所以你若是把它完全的刪除的話其實對於廠商的競爭力來講是會有些影響的對但就是說我們現在害怕的事情就是說以執法來講有營業秘密扣在那邊其實它本來就有精準的定義所以我們到底哪些叫做國家核心關係或是營業秘密這個是很方便的一個做法但如果今天它自己不把它定義成營業秘密的時候那我們要該怎麼辦\n\n03:41.286 --> 03:57.287\n這個我們必須要在做執法上面跟相關的這個部會去把它所謂的定義的部分更加清楚這個可以落實的話不但是保障我們國家的產業對於個別的這個廠商也是一個保障\n\n03:58.769 --> 04:22.320\n對剛剛市長這樣的一個講法意思就是說因為我們都把廠商想的就是廠商自己當然是想要保障自己的秘密嘛所以他有營業秘密的規範但因為在滲透日益嚴重的狀況之下又包含現在可能會有這個技術有可能會被竊取又可能會有被滲透在這個狀況之下我們怕的是他廠商自己不把它變成營業秘密那他如果把它變成不是營業秘密的時候那我們在這樣的一個法條的規範上我們該如何\n\n04:24.040 --> 04:37.960\n廠商會自證或是對於他自己的利益有威脅的這個部分把他取消這個部分當然不排除他可能會有這個原因廠商不是為了自己他在為了別人的時候\n\n04:38.821 --> 05:01.278\n所以這個時候到底該如何我想說這也是為什麼當時修法會被提出來這樣的一個用意但我也覺得就是說畢竟畢竟因為秘密這個在執法上面是比較方便的一個狀態在各國其實也很多時候都有這樣的規定但是因為台灣現在的狀況比較特殊所以我們在想說就是如果說就算到最後真的要把它刪除的話勢必還是要把國家核心關鍵技術做線索的解釋不然它會很廣嘛\n\n05:01.798 --> 05:25.198\n當然所以這件事情我覺得是值得討論我也沒有一定的答案那就可能因為這一個上次有已經被我們已經先排過一次有討論過了是在不是在國防外交那我再相信在接下來幾個月尤其在關稅談判的過程當中是可能還是會被討論那我想說經濟部可能做這個準備跟法務部等等之類的可能再做好這個密切的討論這樣到最後我們再下結論的時候可能在立法院這邊呢也比較有充足的資訊\n\n05:26.087 --> 05:45.104\n是謝謝委員的指導我們無論是執行現有的法規或是未來的修法我們會跟相當單位做好配合針對於國家的利益還有包括廠商他自己的競爭力的部分做好相關的這個防備的這個措施對因為畢竟廠商自己的利益跟國家的利益有時候不一定會align所以這是我們擔心的地方\n\n05:45.584 --> 06:04.778\n再來就是洗產地這件事情,因為我看到,我先講越南跟泰國,越南跟泰國他們最近有做這一個說要加強檢查,然後避免要發放偽造產地的證明書,泰國也有做一些措施。那我看到這個5月7號,5月7號是不是就是明天?\n\n06:05.878 --> 06:06.279\n第一防範洗產地\n\n06:22.148 --> 06:38.180\n我們過去以來包括跟財政部都有很好的配合措施包括加強宣導建立所謂的潛在關鍵的名單然後去監視進出口的這個部分甚至是研發但是若是這個部分做得不確實\n\n06:40.382 --> 06:54.222\n也可能會影響我們個別的廠商他的產業的發展除此之外對於我們國家的利益也會有影響所以經濟部才會宣布從今天開始我們要自己要做得更好\n\n06:55.544 --> 07:10.717\n台灣一直是世界各國在所謂的貿易活動裡面是一個我們遵守法尊的這個優等聖我們希望我們自己做更好也不希望說有任何的這個可能性來危害我們國家\n\n07:11.858 --> 07:27.649\n包括產業的部分對這個我覺得這一次算是反應非常的快因為畢竟我們現在就是要進入到這一個關稅的談判然後我覺得有這樣的事情我覺得在談判的過程當中是非常的有力那這邊因為我有看到說這個為者罪高跟署新台幣300萬的這一個甚至還可以吊銷\n\n07:31.158 --> 07:45.617\n還可以吊銷再來就是說它有可能也會有燈載不實的問題使公園燈載不實所以我覺得這是一個很好的措施因為畢竟如果說我們在還沒有修法之前在行政端能夠先做出這樣的措施我認為是很有幫助的\n\n07:45.998 --> 08:15.311\n他又是有違反刑法的話我們還會移送我覺得這是一個非常好的示範所以我是希望說各部會以後都可以像有如此快的一個反應那我們剛剛講的都是比較偏防堵面就是說我們怕說這一個席產地怕說技術被竊取但今天的題目其實更大一部分是在於說要怎麼去協助這些就是他們畢竟現在有一些台商他們現在也在抱怨因為美國的這些措施所以這些協助的部分我相信僑委會是現在首當其衝\n\n08:15.931 --> 08:24.104\n那我因為只剩一點時間我想問一下那現在溝通的機制就是說經濟部這邊是怎麼去協助僑委會去幫助這些在海外的這些台商\n\n08:24.731 --> 08:47.592\n首先我們在各個比如說以東南亞國家為例我剛剛在書面報告裡面有講我們有貿易服務中心那除此之外我們駐外的單位我們的經濟組會跟這個僑委會密切的對接而我們會積極的參與我們僑委會所辦理的各項的台商包括是說明會聚會去把這些的訊息披露出來\n\n08:48.733 --> 09:18.204\n因為我覺得這件事情很重要是因為這樣在談判的一個過程當中美國譬如說他們對於自己在譬如說他們的國家裡面他有關的商人他們現在在做什麼樣的措施他們現在在他這些情報其實也都在他們收集的範圍所以如果說我們今天這個溝通越順暢的話巧合會的幫助是越多的話其實對他們來講他們會知道說原來你們現在不只在談判的過程當中你們已經祭出什麼樣的措施你們在地方上其實都已經在協助自己的商人做\n\n09:19.425 --> 09:42.007\n這個相關的這些應對的措施這個對他們來講會是重要的資訊經濟部非常感謝喬和會對我們台灣的經濟包括各個財商的這個協助讓我們各住在國所有的台商的經濟的發展都有保持充分的動力好那希望繼續維持那剛剛修法的部分就可能再麻煩次長把他帶回去我們再我覺得認為這幾個月應該會是被密集討論的一個議題好謝謝委員指導好謝謝那今天就來不及問喬和會了\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.552,"end":1.74,"text":"謝謝主席有請經濟部次長"},{"start":12.998,"end":24.027,"text":"委員好市長好我知道今天題目雖然是對喬委會但是我想說其實有蠻多的事情可能經濟部更了解我等一下最後才問喬委會這樣子一開始就是說這一次有新聞報導說美國官員說川普對中國的關稅有四個最終的目標包含這一個"},{"start":35.978,"end":50.04,"text":"終止這個竊取智慧財產權打擊非法傾銷這個惡止匯率的操縱跟減少貿易的赤製那裡面當然對我們最重要的應該是第一個就是竊取智慧財產權因為台灣過往也有被指控過有這樣的一些問題"},{"start":51.201,"end":73.651,"text":"去年的時候也有問過經濟部相關的一些疑問那目前來講呢就是我們之前有在整理就是說這是在日本的狀況那他們有整理各式各樣這種技術流出的型態包含這個海外的輸出啊投資啊有一些合法的方式又或者說透過人才的挖角商業的間諜那這邊所以我想要問經濟部幾件事情就是第一個就是"},{"start":74.491,"end":98.298,"text":"就是我們的國家安全法第三條裡面有規定這個國家核心關鍵技術之營業秘密就是說這一個部分是在保護的範圍那這一次這個我看到邱志偉委員跟黃婕委員有想要把營業秘密拿掉那他的理由是因為說如果今天企業主他自己沒有把它規範在營業秘密裡面但我們又認為它是國家核心關鍵技術"},{"start":99.818,"end":122.357,"text":"那這樣的話呢就沒有辦法被涵蓋到因為畢竟國家核心關鍵技術知營業秘密營業秘密扣在那邊嘛不過法務部就有不同的看法法務部認為說如果你把營業秘密拿掉的話國家核心關鍵技術又會太多所以現在我想知道說以經濟部的立場因為畢竟法務部是就法論法他會知道這個法律的範圍啊什麼等等的大小但以經濟部的看法"},{"start":123.098,"end":145.061,"text":"跟法務部之後如果要對接要討論這一個法案的時候這個到底營業秘密這四個字到底要留還是不留如果不留或者留的話留的話當然就是跟現行法一樣嘛那如果不留又怕太大有沒有任何的方式可以把國家核心關鍵技術把它怎麼講把它擴張解釋也就是說呢讓它不要被現在的法條受限有沒有這樣的一個想法"},{"start":146.082,"end":164.618,"text":"首先我們針對於國家的關鍵技術這個是部分其實我們國家有國科會在做定義對於你剛剛講的包括先進製程我們就以半導體為例的話其實它整個一個製程或是它一個發展相關多的智慧財產必須"},{"start":167.677,"end":195.26,"text":"要去獲得保障他才有辦法持續的進行領先所以經濟部的立場針對於國家核心的關鍵技術確實是要保障針對於智慧營業秘密的這個部分我們目前為止我們經過內部的討論我們是認為說保留原來的這個條文是比較恰當因為有一些它是衍生性的東西"},{"start":196.101,"end":219.926,"text":"所以你若是把它完全的刪除的話其實對於廠商的競爭力來講是會有些影響的對 但就是說我們現在害怕的事情就是說以執法來講有營業秘密扣在那邊其實它本來就有精準的定義所以我們到底哪些叫做國家核心關係或是營業秘密這個是很方便的一個做法但如果今天它自己不把它定義成營業秘密的時候那我們要該怎麼辦"},{"start":221.286,"end":237.287,"text":"這個我們必須要在做執法上面跟相關的這個部會去把它所謂的定義的部分更加清楚這個可以落實的話不但是保障我們國家的產業對於個別的這個廠商也是一個保障"},{"start":238.769,"end":262.32,"text":"對 剛剛市長這樣的一個講法意思就是說因為我們都把廠商想的就是廠商自己當然是想要保障自己的秘密嘛所以他有營業秘密的規範但因為在滲透日益嚴重的狀況之下又包含現在可能會有這個技術有可能會被竊取又可能會有被滲透在這個狀況之下我們怕的是他廠商自己不把它變成營業秘密那他如果把它變成不是營業秘密的時候那我們在這樣的一個法條的規範上我們該如何"},{"start":264.04,"end":277.96,"text":"廠商會自證或是對於他自己的利益有威脅的這個部分把他取消這個部分當然不排除他可能會有這個原因廠商不是為了自己他在為了別人的時候"},{"start":278.821,"end":301.278,"text":"所以這個時候到底該如何 我想說這也是為什麼當時修法會被提出來這樣的一個用意但我也覺得就是說畢竟畢竟 因為秘密這個在執法上面是比較方便的一個狀態在各國其實也很多時候都有這樣的規定但是因為台灣現在的狀況比較特殊所以我們在想說就是如果說就算到最後真的要把它刪除的話勢必還是要把國家核心關鍵技術做線索的解釋 不然它會很廣嘛"},{"start":301.798,"end":325.198,"text":"當然所以這件事情我覺得是值得討論我也沒有一定的答案那就可能因為這一個上次有已經被我們已經先排過一次有討論過了是在不是在國防外交那我再相信在接下來幾個月尤其在關稅談判的過程當中是可能還是會被討論那我想說經濟部可能做這個準備跟法務部等等之類的可能再做好這個密切的討論這樣到最後我們再下結論的時候可能在立法院這邊呢也比較有充足的資訊"},{"start":326.087,"end":345.104,"text":"是謝謝委員的指導我們無論是執行現有的法規或是未來的修法我們會跟相當單位做好配合針對於國家的利益還有包括廠商他自己的競爭力的部分做好相關的這個防備的這個措施對因為畢竟廠商自己的利益跟國家的利益有時候不一定會align所以這是我們擔心的地方"},{"start":345.584,"end":364.778,"text":"再來就是洗產地這件事情,因為我看到,我先講越南跟泰國,越南跟泰國他們最近有做這一個說要加強檢查,然後避免要發放偽造產地的證明書,泰國也有做一些措施。那我看到這個5月7號,5月7號是不是就是明天?"},{"start":365.878,"end":366.279,"text":"第一 防範洗產地"},{"start":382.148,"end":398.18,"text":"我們過去以來包括跟財政部都有很好的配合措施包括加強宣導建立所謂的潛在關鍵的名單然後去監視進出口的這個部分甚至是研發但是若是這個部分做得不確實"},{"start":400.382,"end":414.222,"text":"也可能會影響我們個別的廠商他的產業的發展除此之外對於我們國家的利益也會有影響所以經濟部才會宣布從今天開始我們要自己要做得更好"},{"start":415.544,"end":430.717,"text":"台灣一直是世界各國在所謂的貿易活動裡面是一個我們遵守法尊的這個優等聖我們希望我們自己做更好也不希望說有任何的這個可能性來危害我們國家"},{"start":431.858,"end":447.649,"text":"包括產業的部分對 這個我覺得這一次算是反應非常的快因為畢竟我們現在就是要進入到這一個關稅的談判然後我覺得有這樣的事情我覺得在談判的過程當中是非常的有力那這邊因為我有看到說這個為者罪高跟署新台幣300萬的這一個甚至還可以吊銷"},{"start":451.158,"end":465.617,"text":"還可以吊銷再來就是說它有可能也會有燈載不實的問題使公園燈載不實所以我覺得這是一個很好的措施因為畢竟如果說我們在還沒有修法之前在行政端能夠先做出這樣的措施我認為是很有幫助的"},{"start":465.998,"end":495.311,"text":"他又是有違反刑法的話我們還會移送我覺得這是一個非常好的示範所以我是希望說各部會以後都可以像有如此快的一個反應那我們剛剛講的都是比較偏防堵面就是說我們怕說這一個席產地怕說技術被竊取但今天的題目其實更大一部分是在於說要怎麼去協助這些就是他們畢竟現在有一些台商他們現在也在抱怨因為美國的這些措施所以這些協助的部分我相信僑委會是現在首當其衝"},{"start":495.931,"end":504.104,"text":"那我因為只剩一點時間我想問一下那現在溝通的機制就是說經濟部這邊是怎麼去協助僑委會去幫助這些在海外的這些台商"},{"start":504.731,"end":527.592,"text":"首先我們在各個比如說以東南亞國家為例我剛剛在書面報告裡面有講我們有貿易服務中心那除此之外我們駐外的單位我們的經濟組會跟這個僑委會密切的對接而我們會積極的參與我們僑委會所辦理的各項的台商包括是說明會 聚會去把這些的訊息披露出來"},{"start":528.733,"end":558.204,"text":"因為我覺得這件事情很重要是因為這樣在談判的一個過程當中美國譬如說他們對於自己在譬如說他們的國家裡面他有關的商人他們現在在做什麼樣的措施他們現在在他這些情報其實也都在他們收集的範圍所以如果說我們今天這個溝通越順暢的話巧合會的幫助是越多的話其實對他們來講他們會知道說原來你們現在不只在談判的過程當中你們已經祭出什麼樣的措施你們在地方上其實都已經在協助自己的商人做"},{"start":559.425,"end":582.007,"text":"這個相關的這些應對的措施這個對他們來講會是重要的資訊經濟部非常感謝喬和會對我們台灣的經濟包括各個財商的這個協助讓我們各住在國所有的台商的經濟的發展都有保持充分的動力好那希望繼續維持那剛剛修法的部分就可能再麻煩次長把他帶回去我們再我覺得認為這幾個月應該會是被密集討論的一個議題好謝謝委員指導好謝謝那今天就來不及問喬和會了"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":230,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（10時9分）謝謝主席。有請經濟部次長，謝謝。"],["賴次長建信：委員好！"],["沈委員伯洋：次長好！今天的題目雖然是對僑委會，但是我想其實有滿多的事情可能經濟部更了解，我等一下最後才會問僑委會。","一開始就是有新聞報導白宮官員說，川普對中國的關稅有4個最終目標，包含終止竊取智慧財產權、打擊非法傾銷、遏止操縱匯率，以及減少貿易赤字。裡面當然對我們最重要的應該是第一個，就是竊取智慧財產權，因為臺灣過往也被指控過有這樣的問題，我在去年的時候也有問過經濟部相關的一些疑問。目前來講，我們之前有在整理，這是在日本的狀況，他們有整理各式各樣技術流出的型態，包含海外輸出、投資，用一些合法的方式，又或者透過人才挖角、商業間諜，所以我想要問經濟部幾件事情。","第一個，國家安全法第三條裡面有規定「國家核心關鍵技術之營業秘密」，這一個部分是在保護的範圍。我看到這一次邱志偉委員及黃捷委員想要把「營業秘密」拿掉，理由是如果今天企業主自己沒有把它規範在營業秘密裡面，但我們又認為它是國家核心關鍵技術，這樣的話，就沒有辦法被涵蓋到，因為畢竟規定是「國家核心關鍵技術之營業秘密」，「營業秘密」扣在那邊；不過，法務部就有不同的看法，法務部認為，如果把「營業秘密」拿掉的話，國家核心關鍵技術又會太多。所以現在我想知道經濟部的立場，畢竟法務部是就法論法，它會知道法律範圍等等的大小，但以經濟部的看法，之後如果與法務部要對接、要討論這個法案的時候，「營業秘密」這四個字到底要留，還是不留？留的話，當然就是跟現行法一樣，如果不留，又怕太大，有沒有任何的方式可以把「國家核心關鍵技術」擴張解釋，也就是讓它不要受限於現在的法條，有沒有這樣的想法？"],["賴次長建信：首先，針對於國家的關鍵技術這個部分，其實我們國家有國科會在做定義……"],["沈委員伯洋：對。"],["賴次長建信：至於您剛剛講的，包括先進製程，就以半導體為例的話，其實整個製程或是發展的相關智慧財產，必須要獲得保障，它才有辦法持續領先，所以以經濟部的立場，針對於國家核心關鍵技術，確實是要保障，針對於智慧營業秘密的這個部分，目前為止，經過內部的討論，我們是認為保留原來的條文是比較恰當，因為有一些是衍生性的東西，所以如果把它完全刪除的話，其實對於廠商的競爭力來講是會有些影響的。"],["沈委員伯洋：對，但我們現在害怕的事情就是，以執法來講，有「營業秘密」扣在那邊，它本來就有精準的定義，所以到底哪些叫做「國家核心關鍵技術之營業秘密」，這個是很方便的作法，但如果今天他自己不把它定義成營業秘密的時候，我們該怎麼辦？"],["賴次長建信：這個我們必須要在執法上面跟相關的部會去把它定義得更加清楚。"],["沈委員伯洋：對，因為剛剛……"],["賴次長建信：這個可以落實的話，不但是保障我們國家的產業，對於個別的廠商，也是一個保障。"],["沈委員伯洋：對，剛剛次長這樣的講法意思就是廠商自己當然是想要保障自己的秘密，所以有營業秘密的規範，但因為在滲透日益嚴重的狀況之下，又包含現在技術有可能會被竊取、有可能會被滲透，在這個狀況之下，我們怕的是廠商自己不把它變成營業秘密，如果他把它變成不是營業秘密的時候，在這樣的法條規範上，我們該如何？"],["賴次長建信：廠商會把對於他自己利益有威脅的這個部分取消，當然不排除他可能會有這個原因……"],["沈委員伯洋：對，這個當然就是指廠商不是為了自己，他在為了別人，這個時候到底該如何？我想這也是為什麼當時修法會被提出來的一個用意，但我也覺得畢竟「營業秘密」在執法上面是比較方便的狀態，在各國其實很多時候也都有這樣的規定，但是因為臺灣現在的狀況比較特殊，所以我們在想就算到最後真的要把它刪除的話，勢必還是要把「國家核心關鍵技術」做限縮解釋，不然它會很廣……"],["賴次長建信：當然、當然。"],["沈委員伯洋：所以這件事情我覺得是值得討論……"],["賴次長建信：是。"],["沈委員伯洋：我也沒有一定的答案，這一個上次我們已經先排過一次會議，有討論過，不是在外交及國防委員會，我相信在接下來幾個月，尤其在關稅談判的過程當中，這可能還是會被討論，我想經濟部可能要做這個準備，與法務部等等之類的可能要做好密切的討論，這樣到最後在下結論的時候，立法院可能也比較有充足的資訊。"],["賴次長建信：是，謝謝委員的指導。無論是執行現有的法規或是未來的修法，我們會跟相關單位做好配合，針對於國家的利益還有包括廠商自己的競爭力，做好相關的防備措施。"],["沈委員伯洋：對，因為畢竟廠商自己的利益跟國家利益有時候不一定會align，所以這是我們擔心的地方。","再來是有關洗產地這件事情，我先講越南跟泰國，越南跟泰國最近有說要加強檢查，避免發放偽造的產地證明書，泰國也有做一些措施。我看到國貿署有發布新聞稿說，今天（5月7號）要開始「具結產地屬實」，可不可以把這個政策跟國人說明一下？"],["賴次長建信：第一個，防範洗產地，我們過去以來，包括跟財政部都有很好的配合措施，包括加強宣導、建立所謂的潛在關鍵名單，以及去監視進出口的部分，甚至是嚴罰，但是若是這個部分做得不確實，也可能會影響我們個別的廠商、產業的發展；除此之外，對於我們國家的利益也會有影響，所以經濟部才會宣布，從今天開始，我們自己要做得更好。臺灣在世界各國的貿易活動裡面一直是法遵的優等生，我們希望我們自己做得更好，也不希望有任何危害我們國家的可能性，包括產業的部分。"],["沈委員伯洋：對，我覺得這一次算是反應非常的快，因為畢竟我們現在就是要進入到關稅的談判，我覺得有這樣的事情在談判的過程當中是非常有利。因為我有看到違者最高可處新臺幣三百萬的罰鍰。"],["賴次長建信：甚至還可以吊銷。"],["沈委員伯洋：再來就是它有可能也會有使公務人員登載不實的問題。"],["賴次長建信：是。"],["沈委員伯洋：所以我覺得這是一個很好的措施，因為如果在還沒有修法之前，行政端能夠先做出這樣的措施，我認為是很有幫助的。"],["賴次長建信：他若是有違反刑法的話，我們還會移送。"],["沈委員伯洋：我覺得這是一個非常好的示範，所以我是希望各部會以後都可以有如此快的一個反應。我們剛剛講的都是比較偏防堵面，就是我們怕洗產地、怕技術被竊取，但今天的題目其實更大一部分是在於要怎麼去協助這些企業，畢竟現在有些臺商也在抱怨，因為美國的這些措施，對於這些協助的部分我相信僑委會現在是首當其衝，因為只剩一點時間，我想問一下有關現在溝通的機制，經濟部是怎麼協助僑委會去幫助這些在海外的臺商？"],["賴次長建信：首先，比如說以東南亞國家為例，我剛剛在書面報告裡面有講，我們有貿易服務中心，除此之外，我們駐外的單位、我們的經濟組會跟僑委會密切的對接，而我們也會積極參與僑委會所辦理的各項臺商說明會、聚會，去把這些訊息披露出來。"],["沈委員伯洋：我覺得這件事情很重要是因為，在談判的過程當中，在美國自己的國家裡面有關的商人現在在做什麼樣的措施，這些情報其實也都在他們蒐集的範圍內，所以如果我們的溝通越順暢、僑委會的幫助越多的話，其實對他們來講，他們會知道，原來你們現在不只在談判的過程當中已經祭出什麼樣的措施，你們在地方上其實都已經在協助自己的商人做相關應對的措施，這個對他們來講會是重要的資訊。"],["賴次長建信：經濟部非常感謝僑委會對我們臺灣的經濟，包括各個臺商的協助，讓我們各駐在國所有臺商經濟的發展都保持充分的動力。"],["沈委員伯洋：那就希望繼續維持，剛剛修法的部分就再麻煩次長帶回去，我認為這應該會是最近幾個月被密集討論的一個議題。"],["賴次長建信：好，謝謝委員指導。"],["沈委員伯洋：謝謝，那今天就來不及問僑委會了，謝謝主席。"],["主席（黃委員仁）：謝謝沈伯洋上臺質詢。現在休息10分鐘，10分鐘後繼續詢答。","休息（10時19分）","繼續開會（10時29分）"],["主席：現在開始開會。","接下來由林楚茵委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":234,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-11","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","陳俊宇","沈伯洋","林楚茵","陳冠廷","王定宇","徐巧芯","葉元之","陳永康","林憶君","馬文君"],"page_start":195,"meetingDate":["2025-05-07"],"gazette_id":"1144601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144601_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請僑務委員會委員長、經濟部次長、國家發展委員會副主任委員報告「美國對等關稅政策對僑\n台商全球布局之挑戰，及我政府協助僑台商之具體策略與措施」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144601_00004"}}}