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{\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 80.576, \"end\": 81.557, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 81.557, \"end\": 81.797, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 81.797, \"end\": 81.977, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 81.977, \"end\": 82.397, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"凌\", \"start\": 82.397, \"end\": 82.677, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"晨\", \"start\": 82.677, \"end\": 83.458, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 83.458, \"end\": 83.738, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 83.738, \"end\": 83.918, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 83.918, \"end\": 84.118, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 84.118, \"end\": 84.438, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"早\", \"start\": 84.438, \"end\": 84.618, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 84.618, \"end\": 84.838, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"八\", \"start\": 84.838, \"end\": 86.039, \"score\": 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\"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 111.632, \"end\": 111.832, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 111.832, \"end\": 112.353, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 112.353, \"end\": 112.513, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 112.513, \"end\": 112.933, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 112.933, \"end\": 113.113, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 113.113, \"end\": 113.333, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 113.333, \"end\": 113.853, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"拜\", \"start\": 113.853, \"end\": 114.013, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 114.013, \"end\": 114.154, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 114.154, \"end\": 114.414, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 114.414, \"end\": 114.434, \"score\": 0.05}]}, {\"start\": 115.194, \"end\": 139.975, \"text\": \"那他欣然接受所以第三次也就是7月10號的時候我們請到這一位張順之婦夫他就在五點多開始準備就在那邊敬天拜地好六點十二分一次升空那吳宗信 太空宗信阿伯他說飛得非常漂亮\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 115.194, \"end\": 115.374, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 115.374, \"end\": 115.634, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"欣\", \"start\": 115.634, \"end\": 115.835, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 115.835, \"end\": 116.055, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 116.055, \"end\": 116.335, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 116.335, \"end\": 117.056, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 117.056, \"end\": 117.156, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 117.156, \"end\": 117.316, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 117.316, \"end\": 117.536, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 117.536, \"end\": 117.856, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 117.856, \"end\": 118.057, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 118.057, \"end\": 118.197, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 118.197, \"end\": 118.337, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 118.337, \"end\": 118.697, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 118.697, \"end\": 119.338, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 119.338, \"end\": 119.718, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 119.718, \"end\": 120.419, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 120.419, \"end\": 120.959, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 120.959, \"end\": 121.299, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 121.299, \"end\": 121.379, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 121.379, \"end\": 122.26, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"順\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 122.26, \"end\": 122.66, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"婦\"}, {\"word\": \"夫\", \"start\": 122.66, \"end\": 123.581, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 123.581, \"end\": 123.761, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 123.761, \"end\": 124.242, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 124.242, \"end\": 124.942, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 124.942, \"end\": 125.363, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 125.363, \"end\": 125.763, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 125.763, \"end\": 125.923, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 125.923, \"end\": 126.864, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 126.864, \"end\": 126.984, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 126.984, \"end\": 127.124, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 127.124, \"end\": 127.545, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"敬\", \"start\": 127.545, \"end\": 127.845, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 127.845, \"end\": 128.345, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"拜\", \"start\": 128.345, \"end\": 128.646, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 128.646, \"end\": 129.326, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 129.326, \"end\": 130.587, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"六\", \"start\": 130.587, \"end\": 131.328, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 131.328, \"end\": 131.488, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 131.488, \"end\": 131.708, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 131.708, \"end\": 132.909, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 132.909, \"end\": 133.189, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 133.189, \"end\": 134.11, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"升\", \"start\": 134.11, \"end\": 134.37, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 134.37, \"end\": 135.331, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 135.331, \"end\": 135.772, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"宗\", \"start\": 135.772, \"end\": 135.992, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 135.992, \"end\": 136.552, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 136.552, \"end\": 136.672, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 136.672, \"end\": 136.853, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"宗\", \"start\": 136.853, \"end\": 137.033, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 137.033, \"end\": 137.153, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"阿\", \"start\": 137.153, \"end\": 137.333, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"伯\", \"start\": 137.333, \"end\": 137.673, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 137.673, \"end\": 138.834, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"飛\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 138.834, \"end\": 139.134, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 139.134, \"end\": 139.375, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 139.375, \"end\": 139.695, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"漂\", \"start\": 139.695, \"end\": 139.955, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"亮\", \"start\": 139.955, \"end\": 139.975, \"score\": 0.999}]}, {\"start\": 141.092, \"end\": 156.637, \"text\": \"那我其實不是要在這個地方要告訴大家林美有多厲害我不是要在這邊怪力亂神而是說其實在原住民這樣的一個文化很珍貴但是視為卻很重要\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 141.092, \"end\": 141.252, \"score\": 0.579}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 141.252, \"end\": 141.772, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 141.772, \"end\": 142.052, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 142.052, \"end\": 142.172, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 142.172, \"end\": 142.292, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 142.292, \"end\": 142.412, \"score\": 0.692}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 142.412, \"end\": 142.853, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 142.853, \"end\": 143.053, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 143.053, \"end\": 143.813, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 143.813, \"end\": 144.253, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 144.253, \"end\": 144.633, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 144.633, \"end\": 144.813, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 144.813, \"end\": 145.033, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 145.033, \"end\": 145.213, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 145.213, \"end\": 145.413, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 145.413, \"end\": 145.713, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 145.713, \"end\": 146.074, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"厲\"}, {\"word\": \"害\", \"start\": 146.074, \"end\": 146.574, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 146.574, \"end\": 146.714, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 146.714, \"end\": 146.814, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 146.814, \"end\": 146.914, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 146.914, \"end\": 147.014, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 147.014, \"end\": 147.434, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"怪\", \"start\": 147.434, \"end\": 147.594, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 147.594, \"end\": 148.034, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"亂\"}, {\"word\": \"神\", \"start\": 148.034, \"end\": 148.954, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 148.954, \"end\": 149.094, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 149.094, \"end\": 150.055, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 150.055, \"end\": 150.415, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 150.415, \"end\": 150.655, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 150.655, \"end\": 150.955, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 150.955, \"end\": 151.155, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 151.155, \"end\": 152.315, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 152.315, \"end\": 152.415, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 152.415, \"end\": 152.656, 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00:01:27,280\n第一次我們從凌晨四點等到八點升空失敗就解散第二次的時候部長沒有來剩下前瞻司長我們也是從凌晨一直等到早上八點失敗就解散\n\n6\n00:01:28,180 --> 00:01:54,434\n那那個時候我就忍不住我就跟這個太空中心主任吳宗慶阿伯講說其實你們來到原住民的傳統領域應該要做一個敬天拜地這樣的一個祭儀其實這邊就有所謂的布林奧我說要不要試試看至少來到這個地方總要跟這邊的土地拜一下嘛\n\n7\n00:01:55,194 --> 00:02:19,975\n那他欣然接受所以第三次也就是7月10號的時候我們請到這一位張順之婦夫他就在五點多開始準備就在那邊敬天拜地好六點十二分一次升空那吳宗信太空宗信阿伯他說飛得非常漂亮\n\n8\n00:02:21,092 --> 00:02:36,637\n那我其實不是要在這個地方要告訴大家林美有多厲害我不是要在這邊怪力亂神而是說其實在原住民這樣的一個文化很珍貴但是視為卻很重要\n\n9\n00:02:37,717 --> 00:02:59,136\n到了2023年我給您看這個第二個例子因為為了迎接去年2024是牡丹社事件的150週年那為了迎接這個150週年呢我協助園民會我們在愛丁堡大學有發現牡丹社事件的遺骨\n\n10\n00:03:00,197 --> 00:03:13,042\n那也在那個地方交涉他們也欣然的願意把這個遺骨返還所以呢去迎接的過程中你看這個照片中是我們牡丹社他們的頭目跟他們的靈媒\n\n11\n00:03:16,724 --> 00:03:35,842\n在那個地方做祭儀當時這個愛丁堡大學的這位解剖學主任他在旁邊觀禮這個Gillingwater他說這是很動人的經驗我可以感受到儀式對在場的所有人員而言有多麼的重要\n\n12\n00:03:37,063 --> 00:03:56,658\n那現在在屏東4月22到10月26呢終於其實我們很多人一直在談這件事情我們怎麼樣去重視這一些靈媒所以終於在今年周春米縣長他有在屏東屏煙那個地方辦了一個靈媒與他們的產地的一個特展\n\n13\n00:04:03,643 --> 00:04:16,717\n現場這一些就是碩果僅存的這一些靈媒那這個其實比起十年前是多的為什麼因為這一些年有很多年輕的靈媒\n\n14\n00:04:18,078 --> 00:04:36,272\n他因為具備有這樣的傳統身份他們很多是放棄工作像我以前在園民處我的一個同仁他就放棄工作因為他覺得一直在召喚他回去要接這個工作所以他就毅然決然的回去投入靈媒文化\n\n15\n00:04:37,341 --> 00:04:57,486\n所以在這邊我其實要講的是文化資產文化資產這一塊很重要那我們也看到這一些年我們一些文化保存者像去年正是新聞有一個阿美族的巫師記憶保存者叫阿比他在去年的七月過世\n\n16\n00:04:58,894 --> 00:05:16,339\n享年86歲那去年年底12月呢也有一個阿美族的巫師的一個保存者叫做IbaAgus96歲過世一個一個凋零我們很擔心的就是說這樣的文化就要結束了嗎\n\n17\n00:05:17,406 --> 00:05:32,594\n有沒有年輕人願意接但是我們看到這樣的保存者其實不容易很困難雖然剛才屏東我們看到出現這麼多的靈媒在那個地方但是有做文化保存的是零沒有\n\n18\n00:05:34,622 --> 00:05:48,334\n那為什麼因為他們這個工作其實很重要像是我們所有的祭典其實都會想要請到靈媒出來去做一個祭儀他就很像現在我們也會在後面補一個宗教的禱告祈福是一樣的一個意思對傳統祭典傳統醫療心理的輔導等等\n\n19\n00:05:56,221 --> 00:06:11,468\n那在這裡他的文資身份就很困難因為他必須要跟著人才能夠被保存但是有一些東西像這個記詞它是古文言文其實我們一般人也根本聽不懂\n\n20\n00:06:12,228 --> 00:06:35,761\n那對於這些學習的學生來講他們也覺得很困難因為他們可能要用錄音的方式一直聽一直背一直問所以他們現在面臨的困難非常的多所以很難被認定文字身份那為什麼我們現在很在意文字身份因為政府會給予一些資源例如會有師徒制給予徒弟那這樣子呢對一些\n\n21\n00:06:36,661 --> 00:06:46,811\n把工作辭掉的人來講他就會增加他的誘因投入這樣的一個文化傳承我也看到去年監察院的教育文化委員會他們也有針對我們很多的族人給予這樣的一個陳情去做了這樣的一個建議報告\n\n22\n00:06:56,181 --> 00:07:17,331\n他們是希望說文化部跟園民會可以來討論原化保存的具體合作機制建立文資保存跟傳統智慧保護的一個整合平台所以這個部分我想問一下就是部長您對這個有沒有收到這樣的一個相關訊息那我們有沒有做什麼樣的一個回應跟預備\n\n23\n00:07:18,550 --> 00:07:33,204\n有就是屏東縣政府已經有送來一個案子一個研究計畫在五月會提送我們來申請委員剛剛講那個東西我個人是蠻感動因為無形文化資產尤其是剛剛講那個林美其實在\n\n24\n00:07:34,225 --> 00:07:49,069\n電影也好小說也好已經開始被很多作家來開始描述但是因為我們鑑定無形無法資產的時候會組織一個專家學者那我覺得我們可能要打破這樣一個制度因為了解的人太少\n\n25\n00:07:49,609 --> 00:08:14,194\n包括剛才講的那個記文等等那文化部很願意來努力來研究這個部分看能不能來保存它我個人是覺得台灣最珍貴的都在這些信仰然後尤其是快要已經失傳的這些東西我覺得我會我們來努力謝謝部長肯定積極的一個態度回覆那其實我在解凍報告當中也有看到\n\n26\n00:08:15,154 --> 00:08:32,950\n文資補查機制那你們也有提到說鼓勵優先提報補查的補助計畫我覺得這很好因為追根究柢地方政府他基於人力不足或專業不足其實他們要完成這件事情是很困難的那我常常講\n\n27\n00:08:34,051 --> 00:08:42,499\n我們地方的這些擁有文化智慧知識的這些人他不見得懂得行政機關的遊戲規則對他們來講很困難所以應該是由政府來主動積極的去找到他們協助他們那我希望說這樣的一個補助計畫能夠多加的宣傳推廣\n\n28\n00:08:54,550 --> 00:09:10,102\n讓需要的人可以用得到那您剛才有提到啊像這個全世界最多人看的哈利波特就是一個西方的一個巫師學校他是很被推崇的很吸引人的那我覺得在這個當中他們是跟我講啦我們也可不可以有巫師學校啦\n\n29\n00:09:13,644 --> 00:09:38,391\n他們說委員那個那麼好我們一樣是在傳承語言文化可是現在政府那個教主語的都有給他們什麼主語專職教師縣政府地方政府相公所的語言推動組織人員都有給他們薪水那為什麼我們這種這麼稀罕稀有的文化保存為什麼文化部可以比照嘛\n\n30\n00:09:39,171 --> 00:09:49,909\n給我們一個老師嘛讓老師至少老師有收入他就可以教學生我不知道部長您對於這樣的地方的聲音您有什麼看法\n\n31\n00:09:50,871 --> 00:10:18,532\n這點我是不是請我們那個文資局局長來回答因為這個蠻具體的譬如說我們要一個無私學校是類似這樣的我想請他來回答好謝謝委員剛才提到這個林梅這個案子我想第一個就是我們希望他有文化資產身份那現在屏東縣政府現在會做先期調查研究我們會輔導有一些個案像南排灣族的林梅這個案子他上次提來有一些還要再修正再送來我們讓他有文資身份之後我們會補助他做所謂的保存維護計畫計畫裡面有一些相關\n\n32\n00:10:20,854 --> 00:10:31,340\n多這個我想我們可以跟屏東縣政府我們很痛苦的就是文資保存我們都覺得慢少\n\n33\n00:10:32,849 --> 00:10:52,461\n我們會加速主動跟屏東縣政府來積極聯繫我是覺得如果真的沒有辦法快多就倒不如就推一個政策就像我們現在很多的主語推動的政策也有語推人員也有主語專職教師他其實也可以用政策來推動\n\n34\n00:10:53,803 --> 00:11:07,177\n那我請局長跟部長來思考看看好不好那以上的這些問題我是希望說也能夠再到辦公室跟我做一個說明可以嗎可以沒問題好謝謝部長也謝謝主席好謝謝吳麗華委員部長請回\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5751\t5992\t謝謝主席\n16172\t35297\t委員你好部長早部長在我們台灣原住民有一種文化叫做靈媒文化或者巫師文化我想你都很清楚那我要跟你講一個故事在過去我們有推動太空發展法\n36377\t48637\t那在這個法三讀通過之前呢也有在屏東旭海那邊三社坪有去做一個科研火箭的發射場域那當時呢2022年的7月齁\n51331\t69769\t我們在等待第一枚科研火箭升空那當時叫做科技部長錢瞻師長還有邀請很多人我們就在那個地方借了早上6點到8點的空域要等待那枚科研火箭發射\n71431\t87280\t第一次我們從凌晨四點等到八點升空失敗就解散第二次的時候部長沒有來剩下前瞻司長我們也是從凌晨一直等到早上八點失敗就解散\n88180\t114434\t那那個時候我就忍不住我就跟這個太空中心主任吳宗慶阿伯講說其實你們來到原住民的傳統領域應該要做一個敬天拜地這樣的一個祭儀其實這邊就有所謂的布林奧我說要不要試試看至少來到這個地方總要跟這邊的土地拜一下嘛\n115194\t139975\t那他欣然接受所以第三次也就是7月10號的時候我們請到這一位張順之婦夫他就在五點多開始準備就在那邊敬天拜地好六點十二分一次升空那吳宗信 太空宗信阿伯他說飛得非常漂亮\n141092\t156637\t那我其實不是要在這個地方要告訴大家林美有多厲害我不是要在這邊怪力亂神而是說其實在原住民這樣的一個文化很珍貴但是視為卻很重要\n157717\t179136\t到了2023年 我給您看這個第二個例子因為為了迎接去年2024是牡丹社事件的150週年那為了迎接這個150週年呢我協助園民會我們在愛丁堡大學有發現牡丹社事件的遺骨\n180197\t193042\t那也在那個地方交涉他們也欣然的願意把這個遺骨返還所以呢去迎接的過程中你看這個照片中是我們牡丹社他們的頭目跟他們的靈媒\n196724\t215842\t在那個地方做祭儀當時這個愛丁堡大學的這位解剖學主任他在旁邊觀禮這個Gillingwater他說這是很動人的經驗我可以感受到儀式對在場的所有人員而言有多麼的重要\n217063\t236658\t那現在在屏東4月22到10月26呢終於其實我們很多人一直在談這件事情我們怎麼樣去重視這一些靈媒所以終於在今年周春米縣長他有在屏東 屏煙那個地方辦了一個靈媒與他們的產地的一個特展\n243643\t256717\t現場這一些就是碩果僅存的這一些靈媒那這個其實比起十年前是多的為什麼因為這一些年有很多年輕的靈媒\n258078\t276272\t他因為具備有這樣的傳統身份他們很多是放棄工作像我以前在園民處我的一個同仁他就放棄工作因為他覺得一直在召喚他回去要接這個工作所以他就毅然決然的回去投入靈媒文化\n277341\t297486\t所以在這邊我其實要講的是文化資產文化資產這一塊很重要那我們也看到這一些年我們一些文化保存者像去年正是新聞有一個阿美族的巫師記憶保存者叫阿比他在去年的七月過世\n298894\t316339\t享年86歲那去年年底12月呢也有一個阿美族的巫師的一個保存者叫做Iba Agus 96歲過世一個一個凋零我們很擔心的就是說這樣的文化就要結束了嗎\n317406\t332594\t有沒有年輕人願意接但是我們看到這樣的保存者其實不容易很困難雖然剛才屏東我們看到出現這麼多的靈媒在那個地方但是有做文化保存的是零沒有\n334622\t348334\t那為什麼 因為他們這個工作其實很重要像是我們所有的祭典其實都會想要請到靈媒出來去做一個祭儀他就很像現在我們也會在後面補一個宗教的禱告祈福是一樣的一個意思對傳統祭典 傳統醫療 心理的輔導等等\n356221\t371468\t那在這裡他的文資身份就很困難因為他必須要跟著人才能夠被保存但是有一些東西像這個記詞它是古文言文其實我們一般人也根本聽不懂\n372228\t395761\t那對於這些學習的學生來講他們也覺得很困難因為他們可能要用錄音的方式一直聽 一直背 一直問所以他們現在面臨的困難非常的多所以很難被認定文字身份那為什麼我們現在很在意文字身份因為政府會給予一些資源例如會有師徒制 給予徒弟那這樣子呢 對一些\n396661\t406811\t把工作辭掉的人來講他就會增加他的誘因投入這樣的一個文化傳承我也看到去年監察院的教育文化委員會他們也有針對我們很多的族人給予這樣的一個陳情去做了這樣的一個建議報告\n416181\t437331\t他們是希望說文化部跟園民會可以來討論原化保存的具體合作機制建立文資保存跟傳統智慧保護的一個整合平台所以這個部分我想問一下就是部長您對這個有沒有收到這樣的一個相關訊息那我們有沒有做什麼樣的一個回應跟預備\n438550\t453204\t有就是屏東縣政府已經有送來一個案子一個研究計畫在五月會提送我們來申請委員剛剛講那個東西我個人是蠻感動因為無形文化資產尤其是剛剛講那個林美其實在\n454225\t469069\t電影也好 小說也好已經開始被很多作家來開始描述但是因為我們鑑定無形無法資產的時候會組織一個專家學者那我覺得我們可能要打破這樣一個制度因為了解的人太少\n469609\t494194\t包括剛才講的那個記文等等那文化部很願意來努力來研究這個部分看能不能來保存它我個人是覺得台灣最珍貴的都在這些信仰然後尤其是快要已經失傳的這些東西我覺得我會 我們來努力謝謝部長肯定積極的一個態度回覆那其實我在解凍報告當中也有看到\n495154\t512950\t文資補查機制那你們也有提到說鼓勵優先提報補查的補助計畫我覺得這很好因為追根究柢地方政府他基於人力不足或專業不足其實他們要完成這件事情是很困難的那我常常講\n514051\t522499\t我們地方的這些擁有文化智慧知識的這些人他不見得懂得行政機關的遊戲規則對他們來講很困難所以應該是由政府來主動積極的去找到他們協助他們那我希望說這樣的一個補助計畫能夠多加的宣傳推廣\n534550\t550102\t讓需要的人可以用得到那您剛才有提到啊像這個全世界最多人看的哈利波特就是一個西方的一個巫師學校他是很被推崇的很吸引人的那我覺得在這個當中他們是跟我講啦我們也可不可以有巫師學校啦\n553644\t578391\t他們說 委員 那個那麼好我們一樣是在傳承語言文化可是現在政府那個教主語的都有給他們什麼主語專職教師縣政府 地方政府 相公所的語言推動組織人員都有給他們薪水那為什麼我們這種這麼稀罕 稀有的文化保存為什麼文化部可以比照嘛\n579171\t589909\t給我們一個老師嘛 讓老師 至少老師有收入他就可以教學生我不知道部長 您對於這樣的地方的聲音 您有什麼看法\n590871\t618532\t這點我是不是請我們那個文資局局長來回答因為這個蠻具體的譬如說我們要一個無私學校是類似這樣的我想請他來回答好 謝謝委員剛才提到這個林梅這個案子我想第一個就是我們希望他有文化資產身份那現在屏東縣政府現在會做先期調查研究我們會輔導有一些個案像南排灣族的林梅這個案子他上次提來有一些還要再修正再送來我們讓他有文資身份之後我們會補助他做所謂的保存維護計畫計畫裡面有一些相關\n620854\t631340\t多這個我想我們可以跟屏東縣政府我們很痛苦的就是文資保存我們都覺得慢少\n632849\t652461\t我們會加速主動跟屏東縣政府來積極聯繫我是覺得如果真的沒有辦法快多就倒不如就推一個政策就像我們現在很多的主語推動的政策也有語推人員也有主語專職教師他其實也可以用政策來推動\n653803\t667177\t那我請局長跟部長來思考看看好不好那以上的這些問題我是希望說也能夠再到辦公室跟我做一個說明可以嗎可以沒問題好謝謝部長也謝謝主席好謝謝吳麗華委員部長請回\n","txt":"謝謝主席\n委員你好部長早部長在我們台灣原住民有一種文化叫做靈媒文化或者巫師文化我想你都很清楚那我要跟你講一個故事在過去我們有推動太空發展法\n那在這個法三讀通過之前呢也有在屏東旭海那邊三社坪有去做一個科研火箭的發射場域那當時呢2022年的7月齁\n我們在等待第一枚科研火箭升空那當時叫做科技部長錢瞻師長還有邀請很多人我們就在那個地方借了早上6點到8點的空域要等待那枚科研火箭發射\n第一次我們從凌晨四點等到八點升空失敗就解散第二次的時候部長沒有來剩下前瞻司長我們也是從凌晨一直等到早上八點失敗就解散\n那那個時候我就忍不住我就跟這個太空中心主任吳宗慶阿伯講說其實你們來到原住民的傳統領域應該要做一個敬天拜地這樣的一個祭儀其實這邊就有所謂的布林奧我說要不要試試看至少來到這個地方總要跟這邊的土地拜一下嘛\n那他欣然接受所以第三次也就是7月10號的時候我們請到這一位張順之婦夫他就在五點多開始準備就在那邊敬天拜地好六點十二分一次升空那吳宗信 太空宗信阿伯他說飛得非常漂亮\n那我其實不是要在這個地方要告訴大家林美有多厲害我不是要在這邊怪力亂神而是說其實在原住民這樣的一個文化很珍貴但是視為卻很重要\n到了2023年 我給您看這個第二個例子因為為了迎接去年2024是牡丹社事件的150週年那為了迎接這個150週年呢我協助園民會我們在愛丁堡大學有發現牡丹社事件的遺骨\n那也在那個地方交涉他們也欣然的願意把這個遺骨返還所以呢去迎接的過程中你看這個照片中是我們牡丹社他們的頭目跟他們的靈媒\n在那個地方做祭儀當時這個愛丁堡大學的這位解剖學主任他在旁邊觀禮這個Gillingwater他說這是很動人的經驗我可以感受到儀式對在場的所有人員而言有多麼的重要\n那現在在屏東4月22到10月26呢終於其實我們很多人一直在談這件事情我們怎麼樣去重視這一些靈媒所以終於在今年周春米縣長他有在屏東 屏煙那個地方辦了一個靈媒與他們的產地的一個特展\n現場這一些就是碩果僅存的這一些靈媒那這個其實比起十年前是多的為什麼因為這一些年有很多年輕的靈媒\n他因為具備有這樣的傳統身份他們很多是放棄工作像我以前在園民處我的一個同仁他就放棄工作因為他覺得一直在召喚他回去要接這個工作所以他就毅然決然的回去投入靈媒文化\n所以在這邊我其實要講的是文化資產文化資產這一塊很重要那我們也看到這一些年我們一些文化保存者像去年正是新聞有一個阿美族的巫師記憶保存者叫阿比他在去年的七月過世\n享年86歲那去年年底12月呢也有一個阿美族的巫師的一個保存者叫做Iba Agus 96歲過世一個一個凋零我們很擔心的就是說這樣的文化就要結束了嗎\n有沒有年輕人願意接但是我們看到這樣的保存者其實不容易很困難雖然剛才屏東我們看到出現這麼多的靈媒在那個地方但是有做文化保存的是零沒有\n那為什麼 因為他們這個工作其實很重要像是我們所有的祭典其實都會想要請到靈媒出來去做一個祭儀他就很像現在我們也會在後面補一個宗教的禱告祈福是一樣的一個意思對傳統祭典 傳統醫療 心理的輔導等等\n那在這裡他的文資身份就很困難因為他必須要跟著人才能夠被保存但是有一些東西像這個記詞它是古文言文其實我們一般人也根本聽不懂\n那對於這些學習的學生來講他們也覺得很困難因為他們可能要用錄音的方式一直聽 一直背 一直問所以他們現在面臨的困難非常的多所以很難被認定文字身份那為什麼我們現在很在意文字身份因為政府會給予一些資源例如會有師徒制 給予徒弟那這樣子呢 對一些\n把工作辭掉的人來講他就會增加他的誘因投入這樣的一個文化傳承我也看到去年監察院的教育文化委員會他們也有針對我們很多的族人給予這樣的一個陳情去做了這樣的一個建議報告\n他們是希望說文化部跟園民會可以來討論原化保存的具體合作機制建立文資保存跟傳統智慧保護的一個整合平台所以這個部分我想問一下就是部長您對這個有沒有收到這樣的一個相關訊息那我們有沒有做什麼樣的一個回應跟預備\n有就是屏東縣政府已經有送來一個案子一個研究計畫在五月會提送我們來申請委員剛剛講那個東西我個人是蠻感動因為無形文化資產尤其是剛剛講那個林美其實在\n電影也好 小說也好已經開始被很多作家來開始描述但是因為我們鑑定無形無法資產的時候會組織一個專家學者那我覺得我們可能要打破這樣一個制度因為了解的人太少\n包括剛才講的那個記文等等那文化部很願意來努力來研究這個部分看能不能來保存它我個人是覺得台灣最珍貴的都在這些信仰然後尤其是快要已經失傳的這些東西我覺得我會 我們來努力謝謝部長肯定積極的一個態度回覆那其實我在解凍報告當中也有看到\n文資補查機制那你們也有提到說鼓勵優先提報補查的補助計畫我覺得這很好因為追根究柢地方政府他基於人力不足或專業不足其實他們要完成這件事情是很困難的那我常常講\n我們地方的這些擁有文化智慧知識的這些人他不見得懂得行政機關的遊戲規則對他們來講很困難所以應該是由政府來主動積極的去找到他們協助他們那我希望說這樣的一個補助計畫能夠多加的宣傳推廣\n讓需要的人可以用得到那您剛才有提到啊像這個全世界最多人看的哈利波特就是一個西方的一個巫師學校他是很被推崇的很吸引人的那我覺得在這個當中他們是跟我講啦我們也可不可以有巫師學校啦\n他們說 委員 那個那麼好我們一樣是在傳承語言文化可是現在政府那個教主語的都有給他們什麼主語專職教師縣政府 地方政府 相公所的語言推動組織人員都有給他們薪水那為什麼我們這種這麼稀罕 稀有的文化保存為什麼文化部可以比照嘛\n給我們一個老師嘛 讓老師 至少老師有收入他就可以教學生我不知道部長 您對於這樣的地方的聲音 您有什麼看法\n這點我是不是請我們那個文資局局長來回答因為這個蠻具體的譬如說我們要一個無私學校是類似這樣的我想請他來回答好 謝謝委員剛才提到這個林梅這個案子我想第一個就是我們希望他有文化資產身份那現在屏東縣政府現在會做先期調查研究我們會輔導有一些個案像南排灣族的林梅這個案子他上次提來有一些還要再修正再送來我們讓他有文資身份之後我們會補助他做所謂的保存維護計畫計畫裡面有一些相關\n多這個我想我們可以跟屏東縣政府我們很痛苦的就是文資保存我們都覺得慢少\n我們會加速主動跟屏東縣政府來積極聯繫我是覺得如果真的沒有辦法快多就倒不如就推一個政策就像我們現在很多的主語推動的政策也有語推人員也有主語專職教師他其實也可以用政策來推動\n那我請局長跟部長來思考看看好不好那以上的這些問題我是希望說也能夠再到辦公室跟我做一個說明可以嗎可以沒問題好謝謝部長也謝謝主席好謝謝吳麗華委員部長請回\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.751 --> 00:05.992\n謝謝主席\n\n00:16.172 --> 00:35.297\n委員你好部長早部長在我們台灣原住民有一種文化叫做靈媒文化或者巫師文化我想你都很清楚那我要跟你講一個故事在過去我們有推動太空發展法\n\n00:36.377 --> 00:48.637\n那在這個法三讀通過之前呢也有在屏東旭海那邊三社坪有去做一個科研火箭的發射場域那當時呢2022年的7月齁\n\n00:51.331 --> 01:09.769\n我們在等待第一枚科研火箭升空那當時叫做科技部長錢瞻師長還有邀請很多人我們就在那個地方借了早上6點到8點的空域要等待那枚科研火箭發射\n\n01:11.431 --> 01:27.280\n第一次我們從凌晨四點等到八點升空失敗就解散第二次的時候部長沒有來剩下前瞻司長我們也是從凌晨一直等到早上八點失敗就解散\n\n01:28.180 --> 01:54.434\n那那個時候我就忍不住我就跟這個太空中心主任吳宗慶阿伯講說其實你們來到原住民的傳統領域應該要做一個敬天拜地這樣的一個祭儀其實這邊就有所謂的布林奧我說要不要試試看至少來到這個地方總要跟這邊的土地拜一下嘛\n\n01:55.194 --> 02:19.975\n那他欣然接受所以第三次也就是7月10號的時候我們請到這一位張順之婦夫他就在五點多開始準備就在那邊敬天拜地好六點十二分一次升空那吳宗信太空宗信阿伯他說飛得非常漂亮\n\n02:21.092 --> 02:36.637\n那我其實不是要在這個地方要告訴大家林美有多厲害我不是要在這邊怪力亂神而是說其實在原住民這樣的一個文化很珍貴但是視為卻很重要\n\n02:37.717 --> 02:59.136\n到了2023年我給您看這個第二個例子因為為了迎接去年2024是牡丹社事件的150週年那為了迎接這個150週年呢我協助園民會我們在愛丁堡大學有發現牡丹社事件的遺骨\n\n03:00.197 --> 03:13.042\n那也在那個地方交涉他們也欣然的願意把這個遺骨返還所以呢去迎接的過程中你看這個照片中是我們牡丹社他們的頭目跟他們的靈媒\n\n03:16.724 --> 03:35.842\n在那個地方做祭儀當時這個愛丁堡大學的這位解剖學主任他在旁邊觀禮這個Gillingwater他說這是很動人的經驗我可以感受到儀式對在場的所有人員而言有多麼的重要\n\n03:37.063 --> 03:56.658\n那現在在屏東4月22到10月26呢終於其實我們很多人一直在談這件事情我們怎麼樣去重視這一些靈媒所以終於在今年周春米縣長他有在屏東屏煙那個地方辦了一個靈媒與他們的產地的一個特展\n\n04:03.643 --> 04:16.717\n現場這一些就是碩果僅存的這一些靈媒那這個其實比起十年前是多的為什麼因為這一些年有很多年輕的靈媒\n\n04:18.078 --> 04:36.272\n他因為具備有這樣的傳統身份他們很多是放棄工作像我以前在園民處我的一個同仁他就放棄工作因為他覺得一直在召喚他回去要接這個工作所以他就毅然決然的回去投入靈媒文化\n\n04:37.341 --> 04:57.486\n所以在這邊我其實要講的是文化資產文化資產這一塊很重要那我們也看到這一些年我們一些文化保存者像去年正是新聞有一個阿美族的巫師記憶保存者叫阿比他在去年的七月過世\n\n04:58.894 --> 05:16.339\n享年86歲那去年年底12月呢也有一個阿美族的巫師的一個保存者叫做IbaAgus96歲過世一個一個凋零我們很擔心的就是說這樣的文化就要結束了嗎\n\n05:17.406 --> 05:32.594\n有沒有年輕人願意接但是我們看到這樣的保存者其實不容易很困難雖然剛才屏東我們看到出現這麼多的靈媒在那個地方但是有做文化保存的是零沒有\n\n05:34.622 --> 05:48.334\n那為什麼因為他們這個工作其實很重要像是我們所有的祭典其實都會想要請到靈媒出來去做一個祭儀他就很像現在我們也會在後面補一個宗教的禱告祈福是一樣的一個意思對傳統祭典傳統醫療心理的輔導等等\n\n05:56.221 --> 06:11.468\n那在這裡他的文資身份就很困難因為他必須要跟著人才能夠被保存但是有一些東西像這個記詞它是古文言文其實我們一般人也根本聽不懂\n\n06:12.228 --> 06:35.761\n那對於這些學習的學生來講他們也覺得很困難因為他們可能要用錄音的方式一直聽一直背一直問所以他們現在面臨的困難非常的多所以很難被認定文字身份那為什麼我們現在很在意文字身份因為政府會給予一些資源例如會有師徒制給予徒弟那這樣子呢對一些\n\n06:36.661 --> 06:46.811\n把工作辭掉的人來講他就會增加他的誘因投入這樣的一個文化傳承我也看到去年監察院的教育文化委員會他們也有針對我們很多的族人給予這樣的一個陳情去做了這樣的一個建議報告\n\n06:56.181 --> 07:17.331\n他們是希望說文化部跟園民會可以來討論原化保存的具體合作機制建立文資保存跟傳統智慧保護的一個整合平台所以這個部分我想問一下就是部長您對這個有沒有收到這樣的一個相關訊息那我們有沒有做什麼樣的一個回應跟預備\n\n07:18.550 --> 07:33.204\n有就是屏東縣政府已經有送來一個案子一個研究計畫在五月會提送我們來申請委員剛剛講那個東西我個人是蠻感動因為無形文化資產尤其是剛剛講那個林美其實在\n\n07:34.225 --> 07:49.069\n電影也好小說也好已經開始被很多作家來開始描述但是因為我們鑑定無形無法資產的時候會組織一個專家學者那我覺得我們可能要打破這樣一個制度因為了解的人太少\n\n07:49.609 --> 08:14.194\n包括剛才講的那個記文等等那文化部很願意來努力來研究這個部分看能不能來保存它我個人是覺得台灣最珍貴的都在這些信仰然後尤其是快要已經失傳的這些東西我覺得我會我們來努力謝謝部長肯定積極的一個態度回覆那其實我在解凍報告當中也有看到\n\n08:15.154 --> 08:32.950\n文資補查機制那你們也有提到說鼓勵優先提報補查的補助計畫我覺得這很好因為追根究柢地方政府他基於人力不足或專業不足其實他們要完成這件事情是很困難的那我常常講\n\n08:34.051 --> 08:42.499\n我們地方的這些擁有文化智慧知識的這些人他不見得懂得行政機關的遊戲規則對他們來講很困難所以應該是由政府來主動積極的去找到他們協助他們那我希望說這樣的一個補助計畫能夠多加的宣傳推廣\n\n08:54.550 --> 09:10.102\n讓需要的人可以用得到那您剛才有提到啊像這個全世界最多人看的哈利波特就是一個西方的一個巫師學校他是很被推崇的很吸引人的那我覺得在這個當中他們是跟我講啦我們也可不可以有巫師學校啦\n\n09:13.644 --> 09:38.391\n他們說委員那個那麼好我們一樣是在傳承語言文化可是現在政府那個教主語的都有給他們什麼主語專職教師縣政府地方政府相公所的語言推動組織人員都有給他們薪水那為什麼我們這種這麼稀罕稀有的文化保存為什麼文化部可以比照嘛\n\n09:39.171 --> 09:49.909\n給我們一個老師嘛讓老師至少老師有收入他就可以教學生我不知道部長您對於這樣的地方的聲音您有什麼看法\n\n09:50.871 --> 10:18.532\n這點我是不是請我們那個文資局局長來回答因為這個蠻具體的譬如說我們要一個無私學校是類似這樣的我想請他來回答好謝謝委員剛才提到這個林梅這個案子我想第一個就是我們希望他有文化資產身份那現在屏東縣政府現在會做先期調查研究我們會輔導有一些個案像南排灣族的林梅這個案子他上次提來有一些還要再修正再送來我們讓他有文資身份之後我們會補助他做所謂的保存維護計畫計畫裡面有一些相關\n\n10:20.854 --> 10:31.340\n多這個我想我們可以跟屏東縣政府我們很痛苦的就是文資保存我們都覺得慢少\n\n10:32.849 --> 10:52.461\n我們會加速主動跟屏東縣政府來積極聯繫我是覺得如果真的沒有辦法快多就倒不如就推一個政策就像我們現在很多的主語推動的政策也有語推人員也有主語專職教師他其實也可以用政策來推動\n\n10:53.803 --> 11:07.177\n那我請局長跟部長來思考看看好不好那以上的這些問題我是希望說也能夠再到辦公室跟我做一個說明可以嗎可以沒問題好謝謝部長也謝謝主席好謝謝吳麗華委員部長請回\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.751,"end":5.992,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":16.172,"end":35.297,"text":"委員你好部長早部長在我們台灣原住民有一種文化叫做靈媒文化或者巫師文化我想你都很清楚那我要跟你講一個故事在過去我們有推動太空發展法"},{"start":36.377,"end":48.637,"text":"那在這個法三讀通過之前呢也有在屏東旭海那邊三社坪有去做一個科研火箭的發射場域那當時呢2022年的7月齁"},{"start":51.331,"end":69.769,"text":"我們在等待第一枚科研火箭升空那當時叫做科技部長錢瞻師長還有邀請很多人我們就在那個地方借了早上6點到8點的空域要等待那枚科研火箭發射"},{"start":71.431,"end":87.28,"text":"第一次我們從凌晨四點等到八點升空失敗就解散第二次的時候部長沒有來剩下前瞻司長我們也是從凌晨一直等到早上八點失敗就解散"},{"start":88.18,"end":114.434,"text":"那那個時候我就忍不住我就跟這個太空中心主任吳宗慶阿伯講說其實你們來到原住民的傳統領域應該要做一個敬天拜地這樣的一個祭儀其實這邊就有所謂的布林奧我說要不要試試看至少來到這個地方總要跟這邊的土地拜一下嘛"},{"start":115.194,"end":139.975,"text":"那他欣然接受所以第三次也就是7月10號的時候我們請到這一位張順之婦夫他就在五點多開始準備就在那邊敬天拜地好六點十二分一次升空那吳宗信 太空宗信阿伯他說飛得非常漂亮"},{"start":141.092,"end":156.637,"text":"那我其實不是要在這個地方要告訴大家林美有多厲害我不是要在這邊怪力亂神而是說其實在原住民這樣的一個文化很珍貴但是視為卻很重要"},{"start":157.717,"end":179.136,"text":"到了2023年 我給您看這個第二個例子因為為了迎接去年2024是牡丹社事件的150週年那為了迎接這個150週年呢我協助園民會我們在愛丁堡大學有發現牡丹社事件的遺骨"},{"start":180.197,"end":193.042,"text":"那也在那個地方交涉他們也欣然的願意把這個遺骨返還所以呢去迎接的過程中你看這個照片中是我們牡丹社他們的頭目跟他們的靈媒"},{"start":196.724,"end":215.842,"text":"在那個地方做祭儀當時這個愛丁堡大學的這位解剖學主任他在旁邊觀禮這個Gillingwater他說這是很動人的經驗我可以感受到儀式對在場的所有人員而言有多麼的重要"},{"start":217.063,"end":236.658,"text":"那現在在屏東4月22到10月26呢終於其實我們很多人一直在談這件事情我們怎麼樣去重視這一些靈媒所以終於在今年周春米縣長他有在屏東 屏煙那個地方辦了一個靈媒與他們的產地的一個特展"},{"start":243.643,"end":256.717,"text":"現場這一些就是碩果僅存的這一些靈媒那這個其實比起十年前是多的為什麼因為這一些年有很多年輕的靈媒"},{"start":258.078,"end":276.272,"text":"他因為具備有這樣的傳統身份他們很多是放棄工作像我以前在園民處我的一個同仁他就放棄工作因為他覺得一直在召喚他回去要接這個工作所以他就毅然決然的回去投入靈媒文化"},{"start":277.341,"end":297.486,"text":"所以在這邊我其實要講的是文化資產文化資產這一塊很重要那我們也看到這一些年我們一些文化保存者像去年正是新聞有一個阿美族的巫師記憶保存者叫阿比他在去年的七月過世"},{"start":298.894,"end":316.339,"text":"享年86歲那去年年底12月呢也有一個阿美族的巫師的一個保存者叫做Iba Agus 96歲過世一個一個凋零我們很擔心的就是說這樣的文化就要結束了嗎"},{"start":317.406,"end":332.594,"text":"有沒有年輕人願意接但是我們看到這樣的保存者其實不容易很困難雖然剛才屏東我們看到出現這麼多的靈媒在那個地方但是有做文化保存的是零沒有"},{"start":334.622,"end":348.334,"text":"那為什麼 因為他們這個工作其實很重要像是我們所有的祭典其實都會想要請到靈媒出來去做一個祭儀他就很像現在我們也會在後面補一個宗教的禱告祈福是一樣的一個意思對傳統祭典 傳統醫療 心理的輔導等等"},{"start":356.221,"end":371.468,"text":"那在這裡他的文資身份就很困難因為他必須要跟著人才能夠被保存但是有一些東西像這個記詞它是古文言文其實我們一般人也根本聽不懂"},{"start":372.228,"end":395.761,"text":"那對於這些學習的學生來講他們也覺得很困難因為他們可能要用錄音的方式一直聽 一直背 一直問所以他們現在面臨的困難非常的多所以很難被認定文字身份那為什麼我們現在很在意文字身份因為政府會給予一些資源例如會有師徒制 給予徒弟那這樣子呢 對一些"},{"start":396.661,"end":406.811,"text":"把工作辭掉的人來講他就會增加他的誘因投入這樣的一個文化傳承我也看到去年監察院的教育文化委員會他們也有針對我們很多的族人給予這樣的一個陳情去做了這樣的一個建議報告"},{"start":416.181,"end":437.331,"text":"他們是希望說文化部跟園民會可以來討論原化保存的具體合作機制建立文資保存跟傳統智慧保護的一個整合平台所以這個部分我想問一下就是部長您對這個有沒有收到這樣的一個相關訊息那我們有沒有做什麼樣的一個回應跟預備"},{"start":438.55,"end":453.204,"text":"有就是屏東縣政府已經有送來一個案子一個研究計畫在五月會提送我們來申請委員剛剛講那個東西我個人是蠻感動因為無形文化資產尤其是剛剛講那個林美其實在"},{"start":454.225,"end":469.069,"text":"電影也好 小說也好已經開始被很多作家來開始描述但是因為我們鑑定無形無法資產的時候會組織一個專家學者那我覺得我們可能要打破這樣一個制度因為了解的人太少"},{"start":469.609,"end":494.194,"text":"包括剛才講的那個記文等等那文化部很願意來努力來研究這個部分看能不能來保存它我個人是覺得台灣最珍貴的都在這些信仰然後尤其是快要已經失傳的這些東西我覺得我會 我們來努力謝謝部長肯定積極的一個態度回覆那其實我在解凍報告當中也有看到"},{"start":495.154,"end":512.95,"text":"文資補查機制那你們也有提到說鼓勵優先提報補查的補助計畫我覺得這很好因為追根究柢地方政府他基於人力不足或專業不足其實他們要完成這件事情是很困難的那我常常講"},{"start":514.051,"end":522.499,"text":"我們地方的這些擁有文化智慧知識的這些人他不見得懂得行政機關的遊戲規則對他們來講很困難所以應該是由政府來主動積極的去找到他們協助他們那我希望說這樣的一個補助計畫能夠多加的宣傳推廣"},{"start":534.55,"end":550.102,"text":"讓需要的人可以用得到那您剛才有提到啊像這個全世界最多人看的哈利波特就是一個西方的一個巫師學校他是很被推崇的很吸引人的那我覺得在這個當中他們是跟我講啦我們也可不可以有巫師學校啦"},{"start":553.644,"end":578.391,"text":"他們說 委員 那個那麼好我們一樣是在傳承語言文化可是現在政府那個教主語的都有給他們什麼主語專職教師縣政府 地方政府 相公所的語言推動組織人員都有給他們薪水那為什麼我們這種這麼稀罕 稀有的文化保存為什麼文化部可以比照嘛"},{"start":579.171,"end":589.909,"text":"給我們一個老師嘛 讓老師 至少老師有收入他就可以教學生我不知道部長 您對於這樣的地方的聲音 您有什麼看法"},{"start":590.871,"end":618.532,"text":"這點我是不是請我們那個文資局局長來回答因為這個蠻具體的譬如說我們要一個無私學校是類似這樣的我想請他來回答好 謝謝委員剛才提到這個林梅這個案子我想第一個就是我們希望他有文化資產身份那現在屏東縣政府現在會做先期調查研究我們會輔導有一些個案像南排灣族的林梅這個案子他上次提來有一些還要再修正再送來我們讓他有文資身份之後我們會補助他做所謂的保存維護計畫計畫裡面有一些相關"},{"start":620.854,"end":631.34,"text":"多這個我想我們可以跟屏東縣政府我們很痛苦的就是文資保存我們都覺得慢少"},{"start":632.849,"end":652.461,"text":"我們會加速主動跟屏東縣政府來積極聯繫我是覺得如果真的沒有辦法快多就倒不如就推一個政策就像我們現在很多的主語推動的政策也有語推人員也有主語專職教師他其實也可以用政策來推動"},{"start":653.803,"end":667.177,"text":"那我請局長跟部長來思考看看好不好那以上的這些問題我是希望說也能夠再到辦公室跟我做一個說明可以嗎可以沒問題好謝謝部長也謝謝主席好謝謝吳麗華委員部長請回"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":366,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（10時27分）謝謝主席，再次有請部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["李部長遠：委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：部長早。部長，在臺灣原住民有一種文化叫做靈媒文化或者巫師文化，我想你都很清楚。我要跟你講一個故事，過去我們有推動太空發展法，在這個法三讀通過之前，也有在屏東旭海三射坪做一個科研火箭的發射場域，2022年7月我們在等待第一枚科研火箭升空，當時的科技部長、前瞻司長邀請很多人，我們在那個地方借了早上6點到8點的空域要等待那枚科研火箭發射。第一次，我們從凌晨4點等到8點，升空失敗就解散；第二次的時候部長沒有來，剩下前瞻司長，我們也是從凌晨一直等到早上8點，失敗就解散，那個時候我就忍不住跟太空中心主任吳宗信阿伯講，你們來到原住民的傳統領域，應該要做一個敬天拜地的祭儀，其實這邊就有所謂的pulingaw，我說要不要試試看，至少來到這個地方，總要跟這邊的土地拜一下嘛！他欣然接受，所以第三次，也就是7月10號的時候，我們請到張順枝vuvu，他5點多就開始準備，在那邊敬天拜地，6點12分一次升空，吳宗信太空中心阿伯說：飛得非常漂亮。我其實不是在這個地方要告訴大家靈媒有多厲害，我不是要在這邊怪力亂神，而是說，其實原住民這樣的一個文化很珍貴，但是式微卻很重要。","到了2023年，我給您看第二個例子，因為去（2024）年是牡丹社事件的150週年，我們在愛丁堡大學有發現牡丹社事件的遺骨，為了迎接這150週年，我也協助原民會在那個地方交涉，他們也欣然地願意把這個遺骨返還。去迎接的過程中，你看這個照片，是牡丹社的頭目跟他們的靈媒在那個地方做祭儀，當時愛丁堡大學的解剖學主任吉陵瓦特在旁邊觀禮，他說：「這是很動人的經驗，我可以感受到儀式對在場所有人而言有多麼重要。」","現在屏東4月22日到10月26日終於……其實我們很多人一直在談這件事情，就是我們怎麼樣去重視這些靈媒，終於在今年周春米縣長有在屏東屏菸那個地方辦了一個「靈媒與她們的產地─屏東縣靈媒文化特展」，現場這一些就是碩果僅存的靈媒，這個其實比起10年前是多的，為什麼？因為這些年有很多年輕的靈媒具備這樣的傳統身分，他們很多人都放棄了工作，像我以前在原民處，我的一個同仁就放棄工作，因為他覺得一直在召喚他回去接這個工作，所以他就毅然決然地回去投入靈媒文化。所以我在這邊要講的，其實是文化資產這一塊很重要，我們也看到這些年的一些文化保存者，像去年的新聞，有一個阿美族的巫師祭儀保存者，叫Api，他在去年7月過世，享年86歲；去年年底12月也有一個阿美族的巫師祭儀保存者，叫做Epah Akus，96歲過世。一個一個凋零，我們很擔心這樣的文化就要結束了嗎？有沒有年輕人願意接？但是我們看到作為這樣的保存者其實不容易、很困難，雖然剛才我們看到屏東出現這麼多的靈媒，但是有做文化保存的是零，沒有，為什麼？因為他們這個工作其實很重要，像是我們所有的祭典，其實都會想要請靈媒出來做祭儀，就很像現在我們也會在後面補一個宗教的禱告、祈福，是一樣的意思，對傳統祭典、傳統醫療、心理的輔導等等，在這裡他的文資身分就很困難，因為它必須要跟著人才能夠被保存，但是有一些東西，像祭詞，它是古文言文，其實我們一般人根本也聽不懂，對於這些學習的學生來講，他們也覺得很困難，因為他們可能要用錄音的方式一直聽、一直背、一直問，所以他們現在面臨的困難非常地多，所以很難被認定文資身分。為什麼我們現在很在意文資身分？因為政府會給予一些資源，例如會有師徒制，給予徒弟，這樣子對一些把工作辭掉的人來講，就會增加他的誘因，投入這樣的文化傳承。","我也看到去年監察院的教育及文化委員會，他們也有針對我們很多族人的陳情做了一個建議報告。他們是希望文化部跟原民會可以來討論原民文化保存的具體合作機制，建立文資保存跟傳統智慧保護的整合平臺，所以這個部分，我想問一下部長，您有沒有收到這樣的相關訊息？你們有沒有做什麼樣的回應跟預備？"],["李部長遠：有，屏東縣政府已經有送來一個研究計畫的案子，在5月會提送給我們申請。委員剛才講的東西，我個人是滿感動的，因為無形文化資產，尤其是剛剛講的靈媒，其實在電影也好、小說也好，已經開始被很多作家描述，但是因為我們鑑定無形文化資產的時候會組織專家學者，我覺得我們可能要打破這樣一個制度。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是。"],["李部長遠：因為了解的人太少了，包括剛才講的祭文等等，文化部很願意努力來研究這個部分，看能不能來保存它，我個人是覺得臺灣最珍貴的都在這些信仰，尤其是快要失傳的這些東西，我們會來努力。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝部長以肯定積極的態度回復。其實我在解凍報告當中也有看到文資普查機制，你們也有提到鼓勵優先提報普查的補助計畫，我覺得這很好，因為追根究柢地方政府基於人力不足或專業不足，其實他們要完成這件事情是很困難的。我常常講，地方上這些擁有文化智慧知識的人，他不見得懂得行政機關的遊戲規則，對他們來講很困難，所以應該是由政府主動積極地去找到他們、協助他們，我希望這樣的補助計畫能夠多加的宣傳、推廣，讓需要的人可以用得到。","您剛才有提到，像全世界最多人看的哈利波特，就是一個西方巫師學校的故事，它是很被推崇的、很吸引人的，在這個當中，他們是跟我講：「我們可不可以也有巫師學校？」他們說：「委員，那個那麼好，我們一樣是在傳承語言文化，可是現在政府教族語的都有給他們族語專職教師，縣政府、地方政府、鄉公所的語言推動組織、人員都有給他們薪水，我們這種這麼稀罕、稀有的文化保存，文化部也可以比照，給我們一個老師的頭銜，至少老師有收入，他就可以教學生」，我不知道部長對於地方這樣的聲音，你有什麼看法？"],["李部長遠：這點我是不是請我們文資局局長來回答？因為這個滿具體的，譬如我們要有一個類似巫師學校這樣的，我想請他來回答。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝。"],["陳局長濟民：委員剛才提到靈媒這個案子，我想第一個就是我們希望他有文化資產身分，現在屏東縣政府會做先期調查研究，我們會輔導一些個案，像上次提來南排灣族靈媒的案子，有一些還要修正後再送來，我們讓他有文資身分之後，會補助他做所謂的保存維護計畫，計畫裡面有一些相關……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：那可不可以又快又多？"],["陳局長濟民：這個部分我想我們可以跟屏東縣政府……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我們很痛苦的就是文資保存，我們都覺得又慢又少。"],["陳局長濟民：是，我們會加速，也會主動跟屏東縣政府積極聯繫。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我是覺得如果真的沒有辦法又快又多，倒不如就推一個政策，就像我們現在很多的族語推動政策，也有語推人員、也有族語專職教師，它其實也可以用政策來推動，我請局長跟部長思考看看，好不好？"],["陳局長濟民：好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：以上這些問題，我是希望也能夠再到辦公室跟我做一個說明，可以嗎，部長？"],["李部長遠：可以，沒問題。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝部長，也謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝伍麗華委員，部長請回。","接下來請陳秀寳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":310,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-10","speakers":["林宜瑾","郭昱晴","劉書彬","吳沛憶","葛如鈞","柯志恩","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳秀寳","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","萬美玲","葉元之","范雲","蘇巧慧","黃捷","陳培瑜","邱志偉"],"page_start":235,"meetingDate":["2025-05-07"],"gazette_id":"1144601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理114年度中央政府總預算有關文化部主管預算解凍案49案","agenda_id":"1144601_00005"}}}