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\"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1126.887, \"end\": 1126.988, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 1126.988, \"end\": 1127.008, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"待\", \"start\": 1127.008, \"end\": 1127.028, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,055 --> 00:00:33,286\n有請司法院副秘書長法務部部長然後內政部警政署署長還有抒發部副署長好副署長委員長我想請問我們這位四位首長我們現在台灣的詐騙問題也不嚴重先請司法院好了也不嚴重\n\n2\n00:00:33,982 --> 00:00:58,090\n那個我們從收案量來看司法院第一線收案量來看就知道很嚴重非常嚴重是那我再想請我們的部長嚴重嗎這個詐騙的確是全民公敵那我們檢察官收案負擔是很嚴重那我們就是強力地掃蕩也獲得一些的成果警政署\n\n3\n00:00:59,936 --> 00:01:21,472\n現在詐騙是算國內的治安面是算比較嚴重的好我們來速發部我們同意現在其實確實詐騙是嚴重的你看我們今天很好我們四位首長的共識台灣詐騙非常嚴重我先分享一個個案我再從總體來看我們現在詐騙有多嚴重\n\n4\n00:01:24,414 --> 00:01:52,548\n我最近實際上是挨家挨戶在我的選區送感謝信所以路上我會遇到很多的民眾那很多民眾會跟我去談各式各樣的問題有時候是選民陳情有時候要遇到什麼樣的狀況那我就是一意的傾聽你知道我在路上遇到非常多的其中一個太陽是在抱怨哪一件事情嗎部長你知道嗎猜猜看請我們的司法院副秘書長\n\n5\n00:01:53,837 --> 00:02:21,839\n就是我剛剛講的題目詐騙詐騙真的很嚴重我遇到一個老太太她看到我就哭了她說她被詐騙了好幾百萬她是追不回來她很難過她說雖然家人其實對她來講那也是個財務很大的一個負擔但家人還算體諒都在安慰她但她覺得自己過不去\n\n6\n00:02:22,981 --> 00:02:48,841\n他覺得他自己心裡過不去然後他說這些錢他也追不回來了這是我遇到的許多個案當中的一個我們的詐騙問題有多嚴重已經變成國恥了吧我想這句話我不知道我們部長認不認同已經是台灣對人民來講詐騙已經是非常痛苦的一件事情了沒錯吧部長\n\n7\n00:02:51,182 --> 00:03:02,527\n我剛才講說詐騙這個是全民公敵那我想我們經過這一陣子打造司法的一個通過那從源頭的一個行政管制註決了很多的一些詐騙\n\n8\n00:03:06,949 --> 00:03:29,961\n那林貴的這部分也提醒了民眾免受詐騙那另外我們強力掃蕩也獲得一些的成果那我想這部分大家是很努力的來我來看一下希望說整個一個讓這個詐騙應該現在有個反轉的已經往下的一個跡象了這是我們打造四網非常謝謝您的往下今年三月詐騙的財損是多少錢部長\n\n9\n00:03:35,492 --> 00:03:41,377\n這個財損是要有70億比2月成長了多少2月份大概60億左右到4月變到多少大概75億左右我的數字是76.5億\n\n10\n00:04:00,137 --> 00:04:20,009\n再多了將近7.9%我想是不是把這個趨勢跟大家報告一下就是說我們打炸四法之後經過這個努力之後的一個趨勢那從打炸四法就是去年7月我先跟你講一個最簡單的人民的感受跟現在實際的狀況\n\n11\n00:04:23,513 --> 00:04:37,739\n人民的感受,我在路上走就是感受人民對詐騙真的是深惡痛絕啊,這個感受沒錯吧?沒錯,我覺得還是有努力的空間,來持續再做努力好,謝謝,繼續努力所以我覺得部長,不要鬆懈\n\n12\n00:04:40,339 --> 00:05:05,675\n我剛剛指的保護部啊先聽我講完啦這個沒有鬆懈如果鬆懈的話我們怎麼可能會好啦我改個實惠我改個實惠我改個實惠詐騙157億被害人打到5080人起訴80人這個還押了50幾個齁那這個我想這是整一個打造團隊的一個努力那我想這部分是有目共睹的啦齁那這跟委員做一個報告我跟部長說啊\n\n13\n00:05:08,939 --> 00:05:32,211\n實際上的成績跟人民的感受我剛都講了不管是從財損來講從這邊感受當然我沒有否定我們這司法單位你們對於打詐的一些努力我沒有否定啦可是作為部長我覺得你要有更多的同理心去看看民眾的痛苦就像說今天你去看看我遇到那個民眾的痛苦他痛不痛苦請問部長\n\n14\n00:05:37,236 --> 00:06:06,057\n我想這個我們都是跟民眾的感受是一樣的我請署長好了請署長所以我們才會大力的一個掃蕩那從源頭才跨部會的一個整合心再柔軟一點啦謝謝你這個我們都是有一再的你看我們原請部長你對人民感同身受對啊所以說我們一直感同所以我們一直在偵查中的案件要求要大力的查扣然後呢罪章反反\n\n15\n00:06:06,517 --> 00:06:35,214\n然後彌補被害人的損害因為被害人真的很可憐所以我們在努力的是要求他們一定要調解和解去賠償被害人的這種的一個損失然後當作良心的一個參考所以這個要給被害人的一些的保障所以我們在落實對詐欺危害防治對被害人的一個保障我想這部分當然我們還自己在努力啦我想我對部長真的是很尊敬也尊重嘛對不對\n\n16\n00:06:36,414 --> 00:06:55,092\n你剛剛講話也不打斷你讓你講雖然我質詢時間有限可是我今天其實只講一件事情人民的痛苦我相信署長感受到吧我是站在民眾的同理心上去看待非常好謝謝署長要的沒有別的啦就這份同理心啦\n\n17\n00:06:56,089 --> 00:07:14,384\n那接下來講,我最近看到打詐有些狀況,我也不得不說,我覺得行政部門好像打詐有些矛盾,我想要釐清一下。前政書發部官員在接受侯孟楷委員質詢說,聲稱詐騙廣告無法裁罰,是因為內政部沒有提供資料。\n\n18\n00:07:15,325 --> 00:07:36,365\n那當然刑事局發新聞稿嚴正澄清說截至今年已經通報業者下架3.8萬件詐騙廣告已經匯整移交速發布要求依法懲處我想請問一下速發布刑事局的新聞稿是真的嗎你們兩單位有什麼誤解嗎他們都移交給你們了嗎\n\n19\n00:07:37,365 --> 00:08:01,987\n是的報告委員我想這個部分是有些時間的落差性就是有關3.8萬件的這個部分確實已經都有通知這個網路平台業者去依法下架所以這個部分有在期限內去做下架這個部分沒有裁罰的問題那至於第二個就是說有關這個內政部他移送15件案件給我們的這個部分確實有一點時間的落差\n\n20\n00:08:04,309 --> 00:08:28,661\n在我們上個禮拜五月一號的時候我先跟書發部說啦所以妳也承認有移送嘛是的然後又跟我講一個叫時間差那我只能說妳書發部是狀況外連時間差都沒掌握嗎妳書發部可以在質詢的時候官員可以推給什麼內政部嗎妳如果已經承認是有移送資料啦\n\n21\n00:08:29,321 --> 00:08:36,583\n5月1號的早上9點來我想請教一下我想請教一下請問警政署署長剛剛我們的抒發部官員這樣回答那我想我們未來會再加強互相的這個聯繫跟聯繫上的一個合作的一個關係對啊我覺得你們詐騙彼此比較齊心一點\n\n22\n00:08:57,159 --> 00:09:06,327\n不要遇到責任就開始第一件事想要就先推還先推給自己其他的部會這不是一個政府通力合作的一個做法\n\n23\n00:09:07,639 --> 00:09:15,124\n我要跟各位說啦根據統計2021年到2023年刑警人均移送案件數是從62.69件上升到84.56件那三年工作量暴增35%嘛署長對不對對沒錯那也因此造成我們現在全國偵查所人力有14%的預算缺額那基層負擔也非常重嘛對不對對\n\n24\n00:09:36,599 --> 00:10:00,467\n所以因此其實警察負責的我認為是事後的偵辦跟追查這是主要你們的主力在這個地方嘛沒有錯但是詐騙廣告釣魚網站網路詐騙的源頭管制我必須講書發部這不能推給內政部啦不能推給我們那個警政署啦你們才是職責之所在吧\n\n25\n00:10:01,590 --> 00:10:26,863\n是跟委員報告這個部分來講的話其實我們在今年的打炸綱02.0開始上路之後肅發部是防炸的主政機關在這裡面呢我們也做了許多的一些措施我直接講個結論啦我真的覺得積極度是不夠那我要特別講我要問一下警政署啊你們現在在追查詐騙的實務上網路廣告管制的層面上有沒有遇到什麼問題希望肅發部來協助的\n\n26\n00:10:29,437 --> 00:10:42,765\n我們現在遇到的問題就是這個廣告商雖然有實名制但是還不斷的重複在下廣告所以源頭一定要止住那如果源頭不止住這些廣告商的話一定要跟他處罰啦\n\n27\n00:10:44,178 --> 00:10:58,897\n一定要處罰他自己廣告商炸房條例本來就有規範很清楚他有自主要去做管理要去做這樣的一個責任但是他不做的話法已經有規範如果違反這個規範一定要處罰了\n\n28\n00:11:00,627 --> 00:11:27,779\n來我們請已經承認你現在是你的主責業務的書發部警政署的聲音聽到了沒有有的我們其實跟警政署一直都有在做聯繫包括說上個禮拜移送過來的15個案件我們也已經在昨天跟警政署還有司法單位一起來研究這15個案子目前應該有一個案子有疑似資料接錄不實的部分我做個結論啦書發部的工作績想讓國人來評價\n\n29\n00:11:29,912 --> 00:11:53,448\n但是無論如何不要把責任推給基層員警打詐事後當然去追很重要可是你那事前的洞沒有補齊你是累死員警現在尤其打詐團的那個詐騙技術網路上的做法真的是日新月異你今天靠基層員警去抓事後去抓怎麼抓得完他利率又這麼的大\n\n30\n00:11:55,000 --> 00:12:16,978\n所以今天速發部要把這個事情放在肩膀上去想想看你今天如果你沒有在源頭上把這些詐騙的一些漏洞把它縮緊一點的話你就累死所有警察也抓不完詐騙啊我每天到地上跑活動我都看到我們的員警在那邊宣導反詐騙為什麼\n\n31\n00:12:19,741 --> 00:12:47,194\n因為詐騙真的很嚴重幾乎每一個活動沒錯吧署長每個活動都是我們的警察同仁在宣導反詐騙吧沒有錯幾乎每一個啦所以我都已經熟到變老朋友了啦因為都是警察同仁這邊宣導反詐騙所以我要跟我們政府部門說啊就是說基本上請你們的合作能夠更緊密啊最後我還是要講一下前面的質詢啦\n\n32\n00:12:48,564 --> 00:13:13,591\n我跟部長說我剛剛看到您的答詢答我還是要講一句話我說司法資源是有限的我今天也真的還是很遺憾我念幾個我們的司法人員在媒體受訪的一個感慨然後給我們部長參考他說有基層檢察官受訪說政治介入司法招橫太明顯\n\n33\n00:13:14,953 --> 00:13:38,616\n醫生職責守護捍衛追求的司法正義現在已經被總統跟執政的民進黨完全破壞殆盡也有調查員受訪指出在調查局裡只要有一點良心曾經犯過案的調查員都私下感嘆整個調查系統從上到下早已失去風骨睜眼說瞎話只要跟對組織就可能升官發財私下難看讓人感怒不敢言\n\n34\n00:13:39,156 --> 00:14:01,829\n有資深檢察官受訪指出現在好像你隨地吐個痰檢調都可以把你辦成殺人放火重罪檢調司法警政首長全市總統清點的人馬猶如一條鞭作業全部只聽命於一人展現出效忠組織的大動作各地檢調單位還爭相求表現希望讓長官看到也有資深檢察官受訪時說\n\n35\n00:14:03,610 --> 00:14:29,288\n在野黨台南宜蘭台北新北黨部陸續遭到檢調搜索檢察官佛曉初級帶隊抓人講得難聽一點就算是重罪五年以上刑責的販毒被告也只是在家收傳票到庭說明而不實聯署書所涉及的偽造文書涉罪重是五年以下刑責卻要大陣仗搜索逮人羈押押人不成\n\n36\n00:14:30,169 --> 00:14:52,548\n為達目的一再抗告那麼嚴重不符羈押比例原則我知道部長你不會認同這些話啦對我是不會認同因為我在否認所謂的什麼去介入因為我一直在強調說個案我們都不介入不干涉不指導嘛部長我跟你已經相處一年了你回答的標準公式我也知道那這個本來就是沒有去介入嘛我要先跟部長說\n\n37\n00:14:54,332 --> 00:15:19,790\n就像剛剛我問人民的詐騙情感的時候你竟然可以嘟弄了半天連人民的情感你都沒有辦法正面的回應我要跟你講就是說基本上我非常了解部長啊我非常了解部長今天只要是對現在的檢察官對法務部對我們現在執政黨有所指責的部分你都不會放在心上嗎\n\n38\n00:15:21,365 --> 00:15:37,966\n今天但是社會上有一把尺在那裡啦我還是做一個簡單的結論這歷史有兩種比較一個就是垂直一個叫水平垂直比較是從古到今我就直接講嘛你之前問了多少次你們也答不出來有哪一個總統\n\n39\n00:15:39,825 --> 00:16:06,124\n陳水扁馬英九蔡英文李登輝到賴清德有哪一個總統執政任內他的司法檢調全台灣大市搜索在野黨黨部並且關押在野黨黨的幹部只有一個啦賴清德那第二個今天到底有哪一個總統在任內會去以黨主席身份下令要求全黨公職來發動大罷免\n\n40\n00:16:08,527 --> 00:16:35,085\n李登輝沒有蔡英文沒有陳水扁也沒有馬英九也沒有啊只有我們天眾英明的賴清德總統有啊你是賴清德總統賴政府嘛民進黨清典的官我不會對你有期待太高啦你也不可能講出忤逆他們的話但是這些鐵蒸蒸鐵糟糟的歷史事實擺在眼前不管說今天你們怎麼講我也要講一個今天剛剛中憲委員或王紅委員資訊重點只有一個\n\n41\n00:16:36,107 --> 00:16:59,233\n作弊當然都要抓我也不反對作弊要抓可是我看到一個是重如泰山的抓一個輕如鴻毛的燒我告訴你人民沒有那麼盲目看得清清楚楚今天如果說這麼多的一個案件是這種狀況的話我告訴你大家看得清楚最後一個結論講完\n\n42\n00:17:04,177 --> 00:17:25,257\n這麼多的力量這麼多的司法資源你放在一個剛剛吳宗憲我已經問過了以前從來不去啟用的所謂的績效的一個方式現在用績效去獎勵去抓了之後你有沒有想過站在後面的警政署啊有沒有想過站在後面的員警啊有沒有想過站在後面的老百姓啊\n\n43\n00:17:26,721 --> 00:17:33,260\n如果你今天有說一個陳菊走了問號能夠4小時逮人的效率去辦詐騙\n\n44\n00:17:35,630 --> 00:18:02,310\n我剛剛一開始講的那位太太通力合作權力掃蕩的喔這個都是因為人民的苦我們感同身受所以我們才會強力的掃蕩才會打造司法的通過才會聯合在源頭的管制所以當然我們可以做得更好我們一直都覺得我們做得不夠部長你知道我現在質詢你你也知道我對你都很尊重\n\n45\n00:18:03,530 --> 00:18:15,826\n就像你剛剛一講話你也沒回答我問題我還是讓你回答我講的是什麼我講的跟你有矛盾嗎我講一個最簡單的點啊今天司法資源就是有限的啊\n\n46\n00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:44,256\n今天我今天遇到那位老太太她被詐騙幾百萬抱著我哭這就是鐵證的人民的現實啊那我剛剛說今天有人說陳菊走了問號在網路上問這句問號四小時逮到人難道不是事實嗎可是今天我說你的辦詐騙效率如果有像逮陳菊走了問號這樣的四個小時的績效的話也許那位老太太就不用抱著我哭啊謝謝你啊\n\n47\n00:18:46,687 --> 00:18:47,028\n好謝謝吳委員因為待會\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11055\t33286\t有請司法院副秘書長 法務部部長 然後內政部警政署署長 還有抒發部副署長好 副署長委員長我想請問我們這位四位首長我們現在台灣的詐騙問題也不嚴重 先請司法院好了 也不嚴重\n33982\t58090\t那個 我們從收案量來看 司法院第一線收案量來看就知道很嚴重非常嚴重 是那我再想請我們的部長 嚴重嗎這個詐騙的確是全民公敵那我們檢察官收案負擔是很嚴重那我們就是強力地掃蕩 也獲得一些的成果警政署\n59936\t81472\t現在詐騙是算國內的治安面是算比較嚴重的好 我們來速發部我們同意現在其實確實詐騙是嚴重的你看我們今天很好 我們四位首長的共識 台灣詐騙非常嚴重我先分享一個個案 我再從總體來看我們現在詐騙有多嚴重\n84414\t112548\t我最近實際上是挨家挨戶在我的選區送感謝信所以路上我會遇到很多的民眾那很多民眾會跟我去談各式各樣的問題有時候是選民陳情有時候要遇到什麼樣的狀況那我就是一意的傾聽你知道我在路上遇到非常多的其中一個太陽是在抱怨哪一件事情嗎部長你知道嗎 猜猜看請我們的司法院副秘書長\n113837\t141839\t就是我剛剛講的題目詐騙詐騙真的很嚴重我遇到一個老太太她看到我就哭了她說她被詐騙了好幾百萬她是追不回來她很難過她說雖然家人其實對她來講那也是個財務很大的一個負擔但家人還算體諒都在安慰她但她覺得自己過不去\n142981\t168841\t他覺得他自己心裡過不去然後他說這些錢他也追不回來了這是我遇到的許多個案當中的一個我們的詐騙問題有多嚴重已經變成國恥了吧我想這句話我不知道我們部長認不認同已經是台灣對人民來講詐騙已經是非常痛苦的一件事情了沒錯吧 部長\n171182\t182527\t我剛才講說詐騙這個是全民公敵那我想我們經過這一陣子打造司法的一個通過那從源頭的一個行政管制註決了很多的一些詐騙\n186949\t209961\t那林貴的這部分也提醒了民眾免受詐騙那另外我們強力掃蕩也獲得一些的成果那我想這部分大家是很努力的來我來看一下 希望說整個一個讓這個詐騙應該現在有個反轉的已經往下的一個跡象了這是我們打造四網非常謝謝您的往下今年三月詐騙的財損是多少錢部長\n215492\t221377\t這個財損是要有70億比2月成長了多少2月份大概60億左右到4月變到多少大概75億左右我的數字是76.5億\n240137\t260009\t再多了將近7.9%我想是不是把這個趨勢跟大家報告一下就是說我們打炸四法之後經過這個努力之後的一個趨勢那從打炸四法就是去年7月我先跟你講一個最簡單的人民的感受跟現在實際的狀況\n263513\t277739\t人民的感受,我在路上走就是感受人民對詐騙真的是深惡痛絕啊,這個感受沒錯吧?沒錯,我覺得還是有努力的空間,來持續再做努力好,謝謝,繼續努力所以我覺得部長,不要鬆懈\n280339\t305675\t我剛剛指的保護部啊先聽我講完啦這個沒有鬆懈如果鬆懈的話我們怎麼可能會好啦我改個實惠我改個實惠我改個實惠詐騙157億被害人打到5080人起訴80人這個還押了50幾個齁那這個我想這是整一個打造團隊的一個努力那我想這部分是有目共睹的啦齁那這跟委員做一個報告我跟部長說啊\n308939\t332211\t實際上的成績跟人民的感受我剛都講了不管是從財損來講從這邊感受當然我沒有否定我們這司法單位你們對於打詐的一些努力我沒有否定啦可是作為部長我覺得你要有更多的同理心去看看民眾的痛苦就像說今天你去看看我遇到那個民眾的痛苦他痛不痛苦請問部長\n337236\t366057\t我想這個我們都是跟民眾的感受是一樣的我請署長好了請署長所以我們才會大力的一個掃蕩那從源頭才跨部會的一個整合心再柔軟一點啦謝謝你這個我們都是有一再的你看我們原請部長你對人民感同身受對啊所以說我們一直感同所以我們一直在偵查中的案件要求要大力的查扣然後呢罪章反反\n366517\t395214\t然後彌補被害人的損害因為被害人真的很可憐所以我們在努力的是要求他們一定要調解和解去賠償被害人的這種的一個損失然後當作良心的一個參考所以這個要給被害人的一些的保障所以我們在落實對詐欺危害防治對被害人的一個保障我想這部分當然我們還自己在努力啦我想我對部長真的是很尊敬也尊重嘛對不對\n396414\t415092\t你剛剛講話也不打斷你 讓你講 雖然我質詢時間有限可是我今天其實只講一件事情人民的痛苦 我相信署長感受到吧我是站在民眾的同理心上去看待 非常好 謝謝署長要的沒有別的啦 就這份同理心啦\n416089\t434384\t那接下來講,我最近看到打詐有些狀況,我也不得不說,我覺得行政部門好像打詐有些矛盾,我想要釐清一下。前政書發部官員在接受侯孟楷委員質詢說,聲稱詐騙廣告無法裁罰,是因為內政部沒有提供資料。\n435325\t456365\t那當然刑事局發新聞稿嚴正澄清說截至今年已經通報業者下架3.8萬件詐騙廣告已經匯整移交速發布要求依法懲處我想請問一下速發布刑事局的新聞稿是真的嗎你們兩單位有什麼誤解嗎他們都移交給你們了嗎\n457365\t481987\t是的報告委員我想這個部分是有些時間的落差性就是有關3.8萬件的這個部分確實已經都有通知這個網路平台業者去依法下架所以這個部分有在期限內去做下架這個部分沒有裁罰的問題那至於第二個就是說有關這個內政部他移送15件案件給我們的這個部分確實有一點時間的落差\n484309\t508661\t在我們上個禮拜五月一號的時候我先跟書發部說啦所以妳也承認有移送嘛是的然後又跟我講一個叫時間差那我只能說妳書發部是狀況外連時間差都沒掌握嗎妳書發部可以在質詢的時候官員可以推給什麼內政部嗎妳如果已經承認是有移送資料啦\n509321\t516583\t5月1號的早上9點來我想請教一下我想請教一下請問警政署署長剛剛我們的抒發部官員這樣回答那我想我們未來會再加強互相的這個聯繫跟聯繫上的一個合作的一個關係對啊我覺得你們詐騙彼此比較齊心一點\n537159\t546327\t不要遇到責任就開始第一件事想要就先推還先推給自己其他的部會這不是一個政府通力合作的一個做法\n547639\t555124\t我要跟各位說啦根據統計2021年到2023年刑警人均移送案件數是從62.69件上升到84.56件那三年工作量暴增35%嘛 署長對不對對 沒錯那也因此造成我們現在全國偵查所人力有14%的預算缺額那基層負擔也非常重嘛 對不對對\n576599\t600467\t所以因此其實警察負責的我認為是事後的偵辦跟追查這是主要你們的主力在這個地方嘛沒有錯但是詐騙廣告釣魚網站網路詐騙的源頭管制我必須講書發部這不能推給內政部啦不能推給我們那個警政署啦你們才是職責之所在吧\n601590\t626863\t是 跟委員報告 這個部分來講的話其實我們在今年的打炸綱02.0開始上路之後肅發部是防炸的主政機關在這裡面呢 我們也做了許多的一些措施我直接講個結論啦我真的覺得積極度是不夠那我要特別講 我要問一下警政署啊你們現在在追查詐騙的實務上網路廣告管制的層面上有沒有遇到什麼問題希望肅發部來協助的\n629437\t642765\t我們現在遇到的問題就是這個廣告商雖然有實名制但是還不斷的重複在下廣告所以源頭一定要止住那如果源頭不止住這些廣告商的話一定要跟他處罰啦\n644178\t658897\t一定要處罰 他自己廣告商 炸房條例本來就有規範很清楚他有自主要去做管理 要去做這樣的一個責任但是他不做的話 法已經有規範如果違反這個規範 一定要處罰了\n660627\t687779\t來 我們請已經承認你現在是你的主責業務的書發部警政署的聲音聽到了沒有有的 我們其實跟警政署一直都有在做聯繫包括說上個禮拜移送過來的15個案件我們也已經在昨天跟警政署還有司法單位一起來研究這15個案子目前應該有一個案子有疑似資料接錄不實的部分我做個結論啦書發部的工作績 想讓國人來評價\n689912\t713448\t但是無論如何不要把責任推給基層員警打詐事後當然去追很重要可是你那事前的洞沒有補齊你是累死員警現在尤其打詐團的那個詐騙技術網路上的做法真的是日新月異你今天靠基層員警去抓事後去抓怎麼抓得完他利率又這麼的大\n715000\t736978\t所以今天速發部要把這個事情放在肩膀上去想想看你今天如果你沒有在源頭上把這些詐騙的一些漏洞把它縮緊一點的話你就累死所有警察也抓不完詐騙啊我每天到地上跑活動我都看到我們的員警在那邊宣導反詐騙為什麼\n739741\t767194\t因為詐騙真的很嚴重 幾乎每一個活動沒錯吧 署長每個活動都是我們的警察同仁在宣導反詐騙吧沒有錯幾乎每一個啦所以我都已經熟到變老朋友了啦因為都是警察同仁這邊宣導反詐騙所以我要跟我們政府部門說啊就是說基本上 請你們的合作能夠更緊密啊最後我還是要講一下前面的質詢啦\n768564\t793591\t我跟部長說我剛剛看到您的答詢答我還是要講一句話我說司法資源是有限的我今天也真的還是很遺憾我念幾個我們的司法人員在媒體受訪的一個感慨然後給我們部長參考他說有基層檢察官受訪說政治介入司法 招橫太明顯\n794953\t818616\t醫生職責守護捍衛追求的司法正義現在已經被總統跟執政的民進黨完全破壞殆盡也有調查員受訪指出在調查局裡只要有一點良心曾經犯過案的調查員都私下感嘆整個調查系統從上到下早已失去風骨睜眼說瞎話只要跟對組織就可能升官發財私下難看讓人感怒不敢言\n819156\t841829\t有資深檢察官受訪指出現在好像你隨地吐個痰檢調都可以把你辦成殺人放火重罪檢調司法警政首長全市總統清點的人馬猶如一條鞭作業全部只聽命於一人展現出效忠組織的大動作各地檢調單位還爭相求表現希望讓長官看到也有資深檢察官受訪時說\n843610\t869288\t在野黨台南宜蘭台北新北黨部陸續遭到檢調搜索檢察官佛曉初級帶隊抓人講得難聽一點就算是重罪五年以上刑責的販毒被告也只是在家收傳票到庭說明而不實聯署書所涉及的偽造文書涉罪重是五年以下刑責卻要大陣仗搜索逮人羈押押人不成\n870169\t892548\t為達目的一再抗告那麼嚴重不符羈押比例原則我知道部長你不會認同這些話啦對我是不會認同因為我在否認所謂的什麼去介入因為我一直在強調說個案我們都不介入不干涉不指導嘛部長我跟你已經相處一年了你回答的標準公式我也知道那這個本來就是沒有去介入嘛我要先跟部長說\n894332\t919790\t就像剛剛我問人民的詐騙情感的時候你竟然可以嘟弄了半天連人民的情感你都沒有辦法正面的回應我要跟你講就是說基本上我非常了解部長啊我非常了解部長今天只要是對現在的檢察官對法務部對我們現在執政黨有所指責的部分你都不會放在心上嗎\n921365\t937966\t今天但是社會上有一把尺在那裡啦我還是做一個簡單的結論這歷史有兩種比較一個就是垂直一個叫水平垂直比較是從古到今我就直接講嘛你之前問了多少次你們也答不出來有哪一個總統\n939825\t966124\t陳水扁 馬英九 蔡英文 李登輝到賴清德有哪一個總統執政任內他的司法檢調全台灣大市搜索在野黨黨部並且關押在野黨黨的幹部只有一個啦 賴清德那第二個今天到底有哪一個總統在任內會去以黨主席身份下令要求全黨公職來發動大罷免\n968527\t995085\t李登輝沒有 蔡英文沒有 陳水扁也沒有 馬英九也沒有啊只有我們天眾英明的賴清德總統有啊你是賴清德總統 賴政府嘛 民進黨 清典的官我不會對你有期待太高啦 你也不可能講出忤逆他們的話但是這些鐵蒸蒸 鐵糟糟的歷史事實擺在眼前不管說今天你們怎麼講 我也要講一個今天剛剛中憲委員或王紅委員資訊重點只有一個\n996107\t1019233\t作弊當然都要抓 我也不反對作弊要抓可是我看到一個是重如泰山的抓 一個輕如鴻毛的燒我告訴你 人民沒有那麼盲目 看得清清楚楚今天如果說這麼多的一個案件 是這種狀況的話我告訴你 大家看得清楚 最後一個結論講完\n1024177\t1045257\t這麼多的力量這麼多的司法資源你放在一個剛剛吳宗憲我已經問過了以前從來不去啟用的所謂的績效的一個方式現在用績效去獎勵去抓了之後你有沒有想過站在後面的警政署啊有沒有想過站在後面的員警啊有沒有想過站在後面的老百姓啊\n1046721\t1053260\t如果你今天有說一個陳菊走了問號能夠4小時逮人的效率去辦詐騙\n1055630\t1082310\t我剛剛一開始講的 那位太太通力合作 權力掃蕩的喔這個都是因為人民的苦 我們感同身受所以我們才會強力的掃蕩 才會打造司法的通過才會聯合在源頭的管制所以當然我們可以做得更好 我們一直都覺得我們做得不夠部長 你知道我現在質詢你 你也知道我對你都很尊重\n1083530\t1095826\t就像你剛剛一講話 你也沒回答我問題 我還是讓你回答我講的是什麼 我講的跟你有矛盾嗎我講一個最簡單的點啊今天司法資源就是有限的啊\n1096880\t1124256\t今天我今天遇到那位老太太她被詐騙幾百萬抱著我哭這就是鐵證的人民的現實啊那我剛剛說今天有人說陳菊走了問號在網路上問這句問號四小時逮到人難道不是事實嗎可是今天我說你的辦詐騙效率如果有像逮陳菊走了問號這樣的四個小時的績效的話也許那位老太太就不用抱著我哭啊謝謝你啊\n1126687\t1127028\t好 謝謝吳委員 因為待會\n","txt":"有請司法院副秘書長 法務部部長 然後內政部警政署署長 還有抒發部副署長好 副署長委員長我想請問我們這位四位首長我們現在台灣的詐騙問題也不嚴重 先請司法院好了 也不嚴重\n那個 我們從收案量來看 司法院第一線收案量來看就知道很嚴重非常嚴重 是那我再想請我們的部長 嚴重嗎這個詐騙的確是全民公敵那我們檢察官收案負擔是很嚴重那我們就是強力地掃蕩 也獲得一些的成果警政署\n現在詐騙是算國內的治安面是算比較嚴重的好 我們來速發部我們同意現在其實確實詐騙是嚴重的你看我們今天很好 我們四位首長的共識 台灣詐騙非常嚴重我先分享一個個案 我再從總體來看我們現在詐騙有多嚴重\n我最近實際上是挨家挨戶在我的選區送感謝信所以路上我會遇到很多的民眾那很多民眾會跟我去談各式各樣的問題有時候是選民陳情有時候要遇到什麼樣的狀況那我就是一意的傾聽你知道我在路上遇到非常多的其中一個太陽是在抱怨哪一件事情嗎部長你知道嗎 猜猜看請我們的司法院副秘書長\n就是我剛剛講的題目詐騙詐騙真的很嚴重我遇到一個老太太她看到我就哭了她說她被詐騙了好幾百萬她是追不回來她很難過她說雖然家人其實對她來講那也是個財務很大的一個負擔但家人還算體諒都在安慰她但她覺得自己過不去\n他覺得他自己心裡過不去然後他說這些錢他也追不回來了這是我遇到的許多個案當中的一個我們的詐騙問題有多嚴重已經變成國恥了吧我想這句話我不知道我們部長認不認同已經是台灣對人民來講詐騙已經是非常痛苦的一件事情了沒錯吧 部長\n我剛才講說詐騙這個是全民公敵那我想我們經過這一陣子打造司法的一個通過那從源頭的一個行政管制註決了很多的一些詐騙\n那林貴的這部分也提醒了民眾免受詐騙那另外我們強力掃蕩也獲得一些的成果那我想這部分大家是很努力的來我來看一下 希望說整個一個讓這個詐騙應該現在有個反轉的已經往下的一個跡象了這是我們打造四網非常謝謝您的往下今年三月詐騙的財損是多少錢部長\n這個財損是要有70億比2月成長了多少2月份大概60億左右到4月變到多少大概75億左右我的數字是76.5億\n再多了將近7.9%我想是不是把這個趨勢跟大家報告一下就是說我們打炸四法之後經過這個努力之後的一個趨勢那從打炸四法就是去年7月我先跟你講一個最簡單的人民的感受跟現在實際的狀況\n人民的感受,我在路上走就是感受人民對詐騙真的是深惡痛絕啊,這個感受沒錯吧?沒錯,我覺得還是有努力的空間,來持續再做努力好,謝謝,繼續努力所以我覺得部長,不要鬆懈\n我剛剛指的保護部啊先聽我講完啦這個沒有鬆懈如果鬆懈的話我們怎麼可能會好啦我改個實惠我改個實惠我改個實惠詐騙157億被害人打到5080人起訴80人這個還押了50幾個齁那這個我想這是整一個打造團隊的一個努力那我想這部分是有目共睹的啦齁那這跟委員做一個報告我跟部長說啊\n實際上的成績跟人民的感受我剛都講了不管是從財損來講從這邊感受當然我沒有否定我們這司法單位你們對於打詐的一些努力我沒有否定啦可是作為部長我覺得你要有更多的同理心去看看民眾的痛苦就像說今天你去看看我遇到那個民眾的痛苦他痛不痛苦請問部長\n我想這個我們都是跟民眾的感受是一樣的我請署長好了請署長所以我們才會大力的一個掃蕩那從源頭才跨部會的一個整合心再柔軟一點啦謝謝你這個我們都是有一再的你看我們原請部長你對人民感同身受對啊所以說我們一直感同所以我們一直在偵查中的案件要求要大力的查扣然後呢罪章反反\n然後彌補被害人的損害因為被害人真的很可憐所以我們在努力的是要求他們一定要調解和解去賠償被害人的這種的一個損失然後當作良心的一個參考所以這個要給被害人的一些的保障所以我們在落實對詐欺危害防治對被害人的一個保障我想這部分當然我們還自己在努力啦我想我對部長真的是很尊敬也尊重嘛對不對\n你剛剛講話也不打斷你 讓你講 雖然我質詢時間有限可是我今天其實只講一件事情人民的痛苦 我相信署長感受到吧我是站在民眾的同理心上去看待 非常好 謝謝署長要的沒有別的啦 就這份同理心啦\n那接下來講,我最近看到打詐有些狀況,我也不得不說,我覺得行政部門好像打詐有些矛盾,我想要釐清一下。前政書發部官員在接受侯孟楷委員質詢說,聲稱詐騙廣告無法裁罰,是因為內政部沒有提供資料。\n那當然刑事局發新聞稿嚴正澄清說截至今年已經通報業者下架3.8萬件詐騙廣告已經匯整移交速發布要求依法懲處我想請問一下速發布刑事局的新聞稿是真的嗎你們兩單位有什麼誤解嗎他們都移交給你們了嗎\n是的報告委員我想這個部分是有些時間的落差性就是有關3.8萬件的這個部分確實已經都有通知這個網路平台業者去依法下架所以這個部分有在期限內去做下架這個部分沒有裁罰的問題那至於第二個就是說有關這個內政部他移送15件案件給我們的這個部分確實有一點時間的落差\n在我們上個禮拜五月一號的時候我先跟書發部說啦所以妳也承認有移送嘛是的然後又跟我講一個叫時間差那我只能說妳書發部是狀況外連時間差都沒掌握嗎妳書發部可以在質詢的時候官員可以推給什麼內政部嗎妳如果已經承認是有移送資料啦\n5月1號的早上9點來我想請教一下我想請教一下請問警政署署長剛剛我們的抒發部官員這樣回答那我想我們未來會再加強互相的這個聯繫跟聯繫上的一個合作的一個關係對啊我覺得你們詐騙彼此比較齊心一點\n不要遇到責任就開始第一件事想要就先推還先推給自己其他的部會這不是一個政府通力合作的一個做法\n我要跟各位說啦根據統計2021年到2023年刑警人均移送案件數是從62.69件上升到84.56件那三年工作量暴增35%嘛 署長對不對對 沒錯那也因此造成我們現在全國偵查所人力有14%的預算缺額那基層負擔也非常重嘛 對不對對\n所以因此其實警察負責的我認為是事後的偵辦跟追查這是主要你們的主力在這個地方嘛沒有錯但是詐騙廣告釣魚網站網路詐騙的源頭管制我必須講書發部這不能推給內政部啦不能推給我們那個警政署啦你們才是職責之所在吧\n是 跟委員報告 這個部分來講的話其實我們在今年的打炸綱02.0開始上路之後肅發部是防炸的主政機關在這裡面呢 我們也做了許多的一些措施我直接講個結論啦我真的覺得積極度是不夠那我要特別講 我要問一下警政署啊你們現在在追查詐騙的實務上網路廣告管制的層面上有沒有遇到什麼問題希望肅發部來協助的\n我們現在遇到的問題就是這個廣告商雖然有實名制但是還不斷的重複在下廣告所以源頭一定要止住那如果源頭不止住這些廣告商的話一定要跟他處罰啦\n一定要處罰 他自己廣告商 炸房條例本來就有規範很清楚他有自主要去做管理 要去做這樣的一個責任但是他不做的話 法已經有規範如果違反這個規範 一定要處罰了\n來 我們請已經承認你現在是你的主責業務的書發部警政署的聲音聽到了沒有有的 我們其實跟警政署一直都有在做聯繫包括說上個禮拜移送過來的15個案件我們也已經在昨天跟警政署還有司法單位一起來研究這15個案子目前應該有一個案子有疑似資料接錄不實的部分我做個結論啦書發部的工作績 想讓國人來評價\n但是無論如何不要把責任推給基層員警打詐事後當然去追很重要可是你那事前的洞沒有補齊你是累死員警現在尤其打詐團的那個詐騙技術網路上的做法真的是日新月異你今天靠基層員警去抓事後去抓怎麼抓得完他利率又這麼的大\n所以今天速發部要把這個事情放在肩膀上去想想看你今天如果你沒有在源頭上把這些詐騙的一些漏洞把它縮緊一點的話你就累死所有警察也抓不完詐騙啊我每天到地上跑活動我都看到我們的員警在那邊宣導反詐騙為什麼\n因為詐騙真的很嚴重 幾乎每一個活動沒錯吧 署長每個活動都是我們的警察同仁在宣導反詐騙吧沒有錯幾乎每一個啦所以我都已經熟到變老朋友了啦因為都是警察同仁這邊宣導反詐騙所以我要跟我們政府部門說啊就是說基本上 請你們的合作能夠更緊密啊最後我還是要講一下前面的質詢啦\n我跟部長說我剛剛看到您的答詢答我還是要講一句話我說司法資源是有限的我今天也真的還是很遺憾我念幾個我們的司法人員在媒體受訪的一個感慨然後給我們部長參考他說有基層檢察官受訪說政治介入司法 招橫太明顯\n醫生職責守護捍衛追求的司法正義現在已經被總統跟執政的民進黨完全破壞殆盡也有調查員受訪指出在調查局裡只要有一點良心曾經犯過案的調查員都私下感嘆整個調查系統從上到下早已失去風骨睜眼說瞎話只要跟對組織就可能升官發財私下難看讓人感怒不敢言\n有資深檢察官受訪指出現在好像你隨地吐個痰檢調都可以把你辦成殺人放火重罪檢調司法警政首長全市總統清點的人馬猶如一條鞭作業全部只聽命於一人展現出效忠組織的大動作各地檢調單位還爭相求表現希望讓長官看到也有資深檢察官受訪時說\n在野黨台南宜蘭台北新北黨部陸續遭到檢調搜索檢察官佛曉初級帶隊抓人講得難聽一點就算是重罪五年以上刑責的販毒被告也只是在家收傳票到庭說明而不實聯署書所涉及的偽造文書涉罪重是五年以下刑責卻要大陣仗搜索逮人羈押押人不成\n為達目的一再抗告那麼嚴重不符羈押比例原則我知道部長你不會認同這些話啦對我是不會認同因為我在否認所謂的什麼去介入因為我一直在強調說個案我們都不介入不干涉不指導嘛部長我跟你已經相處一年了你回答的標準公式我也知道那這個本來就是沒有去介入嘛我要先跟部長說\n就像剛剛我問人民的詐騙情感的時候你竟然可以嘟弄了半天連人民的情感你都沒有辦法正面的回應我要跟你講就是說基本上我非常了解部長啊我非常了解部長今天只要是對現在的檢察官對法務部對我們現在執政黨有所指責的部分你都不會放在心上嗎\n今天但是社會上有一把尺在那裡啦我還是做一個簡單的結論這歷史有兩種比較一個就是垂直一個叫水平垂直比較是從古到今我就直接講嘛你之前問了多少次你們也答不出來有哪一個總統\n陳水扁 馬英九 蔡英文 李登輝到賴清德有哪一個總統執政任內他的司法檢調全台灣大市搜索在野黨黨部並且關押在野黨黨的幹部只有一個啦 賴清德那第二個今天到底有哪一個總統在任內會去以黨主席身份下令要求全黨公職來發動大罷免\n李登輝沒有 蔡英文沒有 陳水扁也沒有 馬英九也沒有啊只有我們天眾英明的賴清德總統有啊你是賴清德總統 賴政府嘛 民進黨 清典的官我不會對你有期待太高啦 你也不可能講出忤逆他們的話但是這些鐵蒸蒸 鐵糟糟的歷史事實擺在眼前不管說今天你們怎麼講 我也要講一個今天剛剛中憲委員或王紅委員資訊重點只有一個\n作弊當然都要抓 我也不反對作弊要抓可是我看到一個是重如泰山的抓 一個輕如鴻毛的燒我告訴你 人民沒有那麼盲目 看得清清楚楚今天如果說這麼多的一個案件 是這種狀況的話我告訴你 大家看得清楚 最後一個結論講完\n這麼多的力量這麼多的司法資源你放在一個剛剛吳宗憲我已經問過了以前從來不去啟用的所謂的績效的一個方式現在用績效去獎勵去抓了之後你有沒有想過站在後面的警政署啊有沒有想過站在後面的員警啊有沒有想過站在後面的老百姓啊\n如果你今天有說一個陳菊走了問號能夠4小時逮人的效率去辦詐騙\n我剛剛一開始講的 那位太太通力合作 權力掃蕩的喔這個都是因為人民的苦 我們感同身受所以我們才會強力的掃蕩 才會打造司法的通過才會聯合在源頭的管制所以當然我們可以做得更好 我們一直都覺得我們做得不夠部長 你知道我現在質詢你 你也知道我對你都很尊重\n就像你剛剛一講話 你也沒回答我問題 我還是讓你回答我講的是什麼 我講的跟你有矛盾嗎我講一個最簡單的點啊今天司法資源就是有限的啊\n今天我今天遇到那位老太太她被詐騙幾百萬抱著我哭這就是鐵證的人民的現實啊那我剛剛說今天有人說陳菊走了問號在網路上問這句問號四小時逮到人難道不是事實嗎可是今天我說你的辦詐騙效率如果有像逮陳菊走了問號這樣的四個小時的績效的話也許那位老太太就不用抱著我哭啊謝謝你啊\n好 謝謝吳委員 因為待會\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.055 --> 00:33.286\n有請司法院副秘書長法務部部長然後內政部警政署署長還有抒發部副署長好副署長委員長我想請問我們這位四位首長我們現在台灣的詐騙問題也不嚴重先請司法院好了也不嚴重\n\n00:33.982 --> 00:58.090\n那個我們從收案量來看司法院第一線收案量來看就知道很嚴重非常嚴重是那我再想請我們的部長嚴重嗎這個詐騙的確是全民公敵那我們檢察官收案負擔是很嚴重那我們就是強力地掃蕩也獲得一些的成果警政署\n\n00:59.936 --> 01:21.472\n現在詐騙是算國內的治安面是算比較嚴重的好我們來速發部我們同意現在其實確實詐騙是嚴重的你看我們今天很好我們四位首長的共識台灣詐騙非常嚴重我先分享一個個案我再從總體來看我們現在詐騙有多嚴重\n\n01:24.414 --> 01:52.548\n我最近實際上是挨家挨戶在我的選區送感謝信所以路上我會遇到很多的民眾那很多民眾會跟我去談各式各樣的問題有時候是選民陳情有時候要遇到什麼樣的狀況那我就是一意的傾聽你知道我在路上遇到非常多的其中一個太陽是在抱怨哪一件事情嗎部長你知道嗎猜猜看請我們的司法院副秘書長\n\n01:53.837 --> 02:21.839\n就是我剛剛講的題目詐騙詐騙真的很嚴重我遇到一個老太太她看到我就哭了她說她被詐騙了好幾百萬她是追不回來她很難過她說雖然家人其實對她來講那也是個財務很大的一個負擔但家人還算體諒都在安慰她但她覺得自己過不去\n\n02:22.981 --> 02:48.841\n他覺得他自己心裡過不去然後他說這些錢他也追不回來了這是我遇到的許多個案當中的一個我們的詐騙問題有多嚴重已經變成國恥了吧我想這句話我不知道我們部長認不認同已經是台灣對人民來講詐騙已經是非常痛苦的一件事情了沒錯吧部長\n\n02:51.182 --> 03:02.527\n我剛才講說詐騙這個是全民公敵那我想我們經過這一陣子打造司法的一個通過那從源頭的一個行政管制註決了很多的一些詐騙\n\n03:06.949 --> 03:29.961\n那林貴的這部分也提醒了民眾免受詐騙那另外我們強力掃蕩也獲得一些的成果那我想這部分大家是很努力的來我來看一下希望說整個一個讓這個詐騙應該現在有個反轉的已經往下的一個跡象了這是我們打造四網非常謝謝您的往下今年三月詐騙的財損是多少錢部長\n\n03:35.492 --> 03:41.377\n這個財損是要有70億比2月成長了多少2月份大概60億左右到4月變到多少大概75億左右我的數字是76.5億\n\n04:00.137 --> 04:20.009\n再多了將近7.9%我想是不是把這個趨勢跟大家報告一下就是說我們打炸四法之後經過這個努力之後的一個趨勢那從打炸四法就是去年7月我先跟你講一個最簡單的人民的感受跟現在實際的狀況\n\n04:23.513 --> 04:37.739\n人民的感受,我在路上走就是感受人民對詐騙真的是深惡痛絕啊,這個感受沒錯吧?沒錯,我覺得還是有努力的空間,來持續再做努力好,謝謝,繼續努力所以我覺得部長,不要鬆懈\n\n04:40.339 --> 05:05.675\n我剛剛指的保護部啊先聽我講完啦這個沒有鬆懈如果鬆懈的話我們怎麼可能會好啦我改個實惠我改個實惠我改個實惠詐騙157億被害人打到5080人起訴80人這個還押了50幾個齁那這個我想這是整一個打造團隊的一個努力那我想這部分是有目共睹的啦齁那這跟委員做一個報告我跟部長說啊\n\n05:08.939 --> 05:32.211\n實際上的成績跟人民的感受我剛都講了不管是從財損來講從這邊感受當然我沒有否定我們這司法單位你們對於打詐的一些努力我沒有否定啦可是作為部長我覺得你要有更多的同理心去看看民眾的痛苦就像說今天你去看看我遇到那個民眾的痛苦他痛不痛苦請問部長\n\n05:37.236 --> 06:06.057\n我想這個我們都是跟民眾的感受是一樣的我請署長好了請署長所以我們才會大力的一個掃蕩那從源頭才跨部會的一個整合心再柔軟一點啦謝謝你這個我們都是有一再的你看我們原請部長你對人民感同身受對啊所以說我們一直感同所以我們一直在偵查中的案件要求要大力的查扣然後呢罪章反反\n\n06:06.517 --> 06:35.214\n然後彌補被害人的損害因為被害人真的很可憐所以我們在努力的是要求他們一定要調解和解去賠償被害人的這種的一個損失然後當作良心的一個參考所以這個要給被害人的一些的保障所以我們在落實對詐欺危害防治對被害人的一個保障我想這部分當然我們還自己在努力啦我想我對部長真的是很尊敬也尊重嘛對不對\n\n06:36.414 --> 06:55.092\n你剛剛講話也不打斷你讓你講雖然我質詢時間有限可是我今天其實只講一件事情人民的痛苦我相信署長感受到吧我是站在民眾的同理心上去看待非常好謝謝署長要的沒有別的啦就這份同理心啦\n\n06:56.089 --> 07:14.384\n那接下來講,我最近看到打詐有些狀況,我也不得不說,我覺得行政部門好像打詐有些矛盾,我想要釐清一下。前政書發部官員在接受侯孟楷委員質詢說,聲稱詐騙廣告無法裁罰,是因為內政部沒有提供資料。\n\n07:15.325 --> 07:36.365\n那當然刑事局發新聞稿嚴正澄清說截至今年已經通報業者下架3.8萬件詐騙廣告已經匯整移交速發布要求依法懲處我想請問一下速發布刑事局的新聞稿是真的嗎你們兩單位有什麼誤解嗎他們都移交給你們了嗎\n\n07:37.365 --> 08:01.987\n是的報告委員我想這個部分是有些時間的落差性就是有關3.8萬件的這個部分確實已經都有通知這個網路平台業者去依法下架所以這個部分有在期限內去做下架這個部分沒有裁罰的問題那至於第二個就是說有關這個內政部他移送15件案件給我們的這個部分確實有一點時間的落差\n\n08:04.309 --> 08:28.661\n在我們上個禮拜五月一號的時候我先跟書發部說啦所以妳也承認有移送嘛是的然後又跟我講一個叫時間差那我只能說妳書發部是狀況外連時間差都沒掌握嗎妳書發部可以在質詢的時候官員可以推給什麼內政部嗎妳如果已經承認是有移送資料啦\n\n08:29.321 --> 08:36.583\n5月1號的早上9點來我想請教一下我想請教一下請問警政署署長剛剛我們的抒發部官員這樣回答那我想我們未來會再加強互相的這個聯繫跟聯繫上的一個合作的一個關係對啊我覺得你們詐騙彼此比較齊心一點\n\n08:57.159 --> 09:06.327\n不要遇到責任就開始第一件事想要就先推還先推給自己其他的部會這不是一個政府通力合作的一個做法\n\n09:07.639 --> 09:15.124\n我要跟各位說啦根據統計2021年到2023年刑警人均移送案件數是從62.69件上升到84.56件那三年工作量暴增35%嘛署長對不對對沒錯那也因此造成我們現在全國偵查所人力有14%的預算缺額那基層負擔也非常重嘛對不對對\n\n09:36.599 --> 10:00.467\n所以因此其實警察負責的我認為是事後的偵辦跟追查這是主要你們的主力在這個地方嘛沒有錯但是詐騙廣告釣魚網站網路詐騙的源頭管制我必須講書發部這不能推給內政部啦不能推給我們那個警政署啦你們才是職責之所在吧\n\n10:01.590 --> 10:26.863\n是跟委員報告這個部分來講的話其實我們在今年的打炸綱02.0開始上路之後肅發部是防炸的主政機關在這裡面呢我們也做了許多的一些措施我直接講個結論啦我真的覺得積極度是不夠那我要特別講我要問一下警政署啊你們現在在追查詐騙的實務上網路廣告管制的層面上有沒有遇到什麼問題希望肅發部來協助的\n\n10:29.437 --> 10:42.765\n我們現在遇到的問題就是這個廣告商雖然有實名制但是還不斷的重複在下廣告所以源頭一定要止住那如果源頭不止住這些廣告商的話一定要跟他處罰啦\n\n10:44.178 --> 10:58.897\n一定要處罰他自己廣告商炸房條例本來就有規範很清楚他有自主要去做管理要去做這樣的一個責任但是他不做的話法已經有規範如果違反這個規範一定要處罰了\n\n11:00.627 --> 11:27.779\n來我們請已經承認你現在是你的主責業務的書發部警政署的聲音聽到了沒有有的我們其實跟警政署一直都有在做聯繫包括說上個禮拜移送過來的15個案件我們也已經在昨天跟警政署還有司法單位一起來研究這15個案子目前應該有一個案子有疑似資料接錄不實的部分我做個結論啦書發部的工作績想讓國人來評價\n\n11:29.912 --> 11:53.448\n但是無論如何不要把責任推給基層員警打詐事後當然去追很重要可是你那事前的洞沒有補齊你是累死員警現在尤其打詐團的那個詐騙技術網路上的做法真的是日新月異你今天靠基層員警去抓事後去抓怎麼抓得完他利率又這麼的大\n\n11:55.000 --> 12:16.978\n所以今天速發部要把這個事情放在肩膀上去想想看你今天如果你沒有在源頭上把這些詐騙的一些漏洞把它縮緊一點的話你就累死所有警察也抓不完詐騙啊我每天到地上跑活動我都看到我們的員警在那邊宣導反詐騙為什麼\n\n12:19.741 --> 12:47.194\n因為詐騙真的很嚴重幾乎每一個活動沒錯吧署長每個活動都是我們的警察同仁在宣導反詐騙吧沒有錯幾乎每一個啦所以我都已經熟到變老朋友了啦因為都是警察同仁這邊宣導反詐騙所以我要跟我們政府部門說啊就是說基本上請你們的合作能夠更緊密啊最後我還是要講一下前面的質詢啦\n\n12:48.564 --> 13:13.591\n我跟部長說我剛剛看到您的答詢答我還是要講一句話我說司法資源是有限的我今天也真的還是很遺憾我念幾個我們的司法人員在媒體受訪的一個感慨然後給我們部長參考他說有基層檢察官受訪說政治介入司法招橫太明顯\n\n13:14.953 --> 13:38.616\n醫生職責守護捍衛追求的司法正義現在已經被總統跟執政的民進黨完全破壞殆盡也有調查員受訪指出在調查局裡只要有一點良心曾經犯過案的調查員都私下感嘆整個調查系統從上到下早已失去風骨睜眼說瞎話只要跟對組織就可能升官發財私下難看讓人感怒不敢言\n\n13:39.156 --> 14:01.829\n有資深檢察官受訪指出現在好像你隨地吐個痰檢調都可以把你辦成殺人放火重罪檢調司法警政首長全市總統清點的人馬猶如一條鞭作業全部只聽命於一人展現出效忠組織的大動作各地檢調單位還爭相求表現希望讓長官看到也有資深檢察官受訪時說\n\n14:03.610 --> 14:29.288\n在野黨台南宜蘭台北新北黨部陸續遭到檢調搜索檢察官佛曉初級帶隊抓人講得難聽一點就算是重罪五年以上刑責的販毒被告也只是在家收傳票到庭說明而不實聯署書所涉及的偽造文書涉罪重是五年以下刑責卻要大陣仗搜索逮人羈押押人不成\n\n14:30.169 --> 14:52.548\n為達目的一再抗告那麼嚴重不符羈押比例原則我知道部長你不會認同這些話啦對我是不會認同因為我在否認所謂的什麼去介入因為我一直在強調說個案我們都不介入不干涉不指導嘛部長我跟你已經相處一年了你回答的標準公式我也知道那這個本來就是沒有去介入嘛我要先跟部長說\n\n14:54.332 --> 15:19.790\n就像剛剛我問人民的詐騙情感的時候你竟然可以嘟弄了半天連人民的情感你都沒有辦法正面的回應我要跟你講就是說基本上我非常了解部長啊我非常了解部長今天只要是對現在的檢察官對法務部對我們現在執政黨有所指責的部分你都不會放在心上嗎\n\n15:21.365 --> 15:37.966\n今天但是社會上有一把尺在那裡啦我還是做一個簡單的結論這歷史有兩種比較一個就是垂直一個叫水平垂直比較是從古到今我就直接講嘛你之前問了多少次你們也答不出來有哪一個總統\n\n15:39.825 --> 16:06.124\n陳水扁馬英九蔡英文李登輝到賴清德有哪一個總統執政任內他的司法檢調全台灣大市搜索在野黨黨部並且關押在野黨黨的幹部只有一個啦賴清德那第二個今天到底有哪一個總統在任內會去以黨主席身份下令要求全黨公職來發動大罷免\n\n16:08.527 --> 16:35.085\n李登輝沒有蔡英文沒有陳水扁也沒有馬英九也沒有啊只有我們天眾英明的賴清德總統有啊你是賴清德總統賴政府嘛民進黨清典的官我不會對你有期待太高啦你也不可能講出忤逆他們的話但是這些鐵蒸蒸鐵糟糟的歷史事實擺在眼前不管說今天你們怎麼講我也要講一個今天剛剛中憲委員或王紅委員資訊重點只有一個\n\n16:36.107 --> 16:59.233\n作弊當然都要抓我也不反對作弊要抓可是我看到一個是重如泰山的抓一個輕如鴻毛的燒我告訴你人民沒有那麼盲目看得清清楚楚今天如果說這麼多的一個案件是這種狀況的話我告訴你大家看得清楚最後一個結論講完\n\n17:04.177 --> 17:25.257\n這麼多的力量這麼多的司法資源你放在一個剛剛吳宗憲我已經問過了以前從來不去啟用的所謂的績效的一個方式現在用績效去獎勵去抓了之後你有沒有想過站在後面的警政署啊有沒有想過站在後面的員警啊有沒有想過站在後面的老百姓啊\n\n17:26.721 --> 17:33.260\n如果你今天有說一個陳菊走了問號能夠4小時逮人的效率去辦詐騙\n\n17:35.630 --> 18:02.310\n我剛剛一開始講的那位太太通力合作權力掃蕩的喔這個都是因為人民的苦我們感同身受所以我們才會強力的掃蕩才會打造司法的通過才會聯合在源頭的管制所以當然我們可以做得更好我們一直都覺得我們做得不夠部長你知道我現在質詢你你也知道我對你都很尊重\n\n18:03.530 --> 18:15.826\n就像你剛剛一講話你也沒回答我問題我還是讓你回答我講的是什麼我講的跟你有矛盾嗎我講一個最簡單的點啊今天司法資源就是有限的啊\n\n18:16.880 --> 18:44.256\n今天我今天遇到那位老太太她被詐騙幾百萬抱著我哭這就是鐵證的人民的現實啊那我剛剛說今天有人說陳菊走了問號在網路上問這句問號四小時逮到人難道不是事實嗎可是今天我說你的辦詐騙效率如果有像逮陳菊走了問號這樣的四個小時的績效的話也許那位老太太就不用抱著我哭啊謝謝你啊\n\n18:46.687 --> 18:47.028\n好謝謝吳委員因為待會\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.055,"end":33.286,"text":"有請司法院副秘書長 法務部部長 然後內政部警政署署長 還有抒發部副署長好 副署長委員長我想請問我們這位四位首長我們現在台灣的詐騙問題也不嚴重 先請司法院好了 也不嚴重"},{"start":33.982,"end":58.09,"text":"那個 我們從收案量來看 司法院第一線收案量來看就知道很嚴重非常嚴重 是那我再想請我們的部長 嚴重嗎這個詐騙的確是全民公敵那我們檢察官收案負擔是很嚴重那我們就是強力地掃蕩 也獲得一些的成果警政署"},{"start":59.936,"end":81.472,"text":"現在詐騙是算國內的治安面是算比較嚴重的好 我們來速發部我們同意現在其實確實詐騙是嚴重的你看我們今天很好 我們四位首長的共識 台灣詐騙非常嚴重我先分享一個個案 我再從總體來看我們現在詐騙有多嚴重"},{"start":84.414,"end":112.548,"text":"我最近實際上是挨家挨戶在我的選區送感謝信所以路上我會遇到很多的民眾那很多民眾會跟我去談各式各樣的問題有時候是選民陳情有時候要遇到什麼樣的狀況那我就是一意的傾聽你知道我在路上遇到非常多的其中一個太陽是在抱怨哪一件事情嗎部長你知道嗎 猜猜看請我們的司法院副秘書長"},{"start":113.837,"end":141.839,"text":"就是我剛剛講的題目詐騙詐騙真的很嚴重我遇到一個老太太她看到我就哭了她說她被詐騙了好幾百萬她是追不回來她很難過她說雖然家人其實對她來講那也是個財務很大的一個負擔但家人還算體諒都在安慰她但她覺得自己過不去"},{"start":142.981,"end":168.841,"text":"他覺得他自己心裡過不去然後他說這些錢他也追不回來了這是我遇到的許多個案當中的一個我們的詐騙問題有多嚴重已經變成國恥了吧我想這句話我不知道我們部長認不認同已經是台灣對人民來講詐騙已經是非常痛苦的一件事情了沒錯吧 部長"},{"start":171.182,"end":182.527,"text":"我剛才講說詐騙這個是全民公敵那我想我們經過這一陣子打造司法的一個通過那從源頭的一個行政管制註決了很多的一些詐騙"},{"start":186.949,"end":209.961,"text":"那林貴的這部分也提醒了民眾免受詐騙那另外我們強力掃蕩也獲得一些的成果那我想這部分大家是很努力的來我來看一下 希望說整個一個讓這個詐騙應該現在有個反轉的已經往下的一個跡象了這是我們打造四網非常謝謝您的往下今年三月詐騙的財損是多少錢部長"},{"start":215.492,"end":221.377,"text":"這個財損是要有70億比2月成長了多少2月份大概60億左右到4月變到多少大概75億左右我的數字是76.5億"},{"start":240.137,"end":260.009,"text":"再多了將近7.9%我想是不是把這個趨勢跟大家報告一下就是說我們打炸四法之後經過這個努力之後的一個趨勢那從打炸四法就是去年7月我先跟你講一個最簡單的人民的感受跟現在實際的狀況"},{"start":263.513,"end":277.739,"text":"人民的感受,我在路上走就是感受人民對詐騙真的是深惡痛絕啊,這個感受沒錯吧?沒錯,我覺得還是有努力的空間,來持續再做努力好,謝謝,繼續努力所以我覺得部長,不要鬆懈"},{"start":280.339,"end":305.675,"text":"我剛剛指的保護部啊先聽我講完啦這個沒有鬆懈如果鬆懈的話我們怎麼可能會好啦我改個實惠我改個實惠我改個實惠詐騙157億被害人打到5080人起訴80人這個還押了50幾個齁那這個我想這是整一個打造團隊的一個努力那我想這部分是有目共睹的啦齁那這跟委員做一個報告我跟部長說啊"},{"start":308.939,"end":332.211,"text":"實際上的成績跟人民的感受我剛都講了不管是從財損來講從這邊感受當然我沒有否定我們這司法單位你們對於打詐的一些努力我沒有否定啦可是作為部長我覺得你要有更多的同理心去看看民眾的痛苦就像說今天你去看看我遇到那個民眾的痛苦他痛不痛苦請問部長"},{"start":337.236,"end":366.057,"text":"我想這個我們都是跟民眾的感受是一樣的我請署長好了請署長所以我們才會大力的一個掃蕩那從源頭才跨部會的一個整合心再柔軟一點啦謝謝你這個我們都是有一再的你看我們原請部長你對人民感同身受對啊所以說我們一直感同所以我們一直在偵查中的案件要求要大力的查扣然後呢罪章反反"},{"start":366.517,"end":395.214,"text":"然後彌補被害人的損害因為被害人真的很可憐所以我們在努力的是要求他們一定要調解和解去賠償被害人的這種的一個損失然後當作良心的一個參考所以這個要給被害人的一些的保障所以我們在落實對詐欺危害防治對被害人的一個保障我想這部分當然我們還自己在努力啦我想我對部長真的是很尊敬也尊重嘛對不對"},{"start":396.414,"end":415.092,"text":"你剛剛講話也不打斷你 讓你講 雖然我質詢時間有限可是我今天其實只講一件事情人民的痛苦 我相信署長感受到吧我是站在民眾的同理心上去看待 非常好 謝謝署長要的沒有別的啦 就這份同理心啦"},{"start":416.089,"end":434.384,"text":"那接下來講,我最近看到打詐有些狀況,我也不得不說,我覺得行政部門好像打詐有些矛盾,我想要釐清一下。前政書發部官員在接受侯孟楷委員質詢說,聲稱詐騙廣告無法裁罰,是因為內政部沒有提供資料。"},{"start":435.325,"end":456.365,"text":"那當然刑事局發新聞稿嚴正澄清說截至今年已經通報業者下架3.8萬件詐騙廣告已經匯整移交速發布要求依法懲處我想請問一下速發布刑事局的新聞稿是真的嗎你們兩單位有什麼誤解嗎他們都移交給你們了嗎"},{"start":457.365,"end":481.987,"text":"是的報告委員我想這個部分是有些時間的落差性就是有關3.8萬件的這個部分確實已經都有通知這個網路平台業者去依法下架所以這個部分有在期限內去做下架這個部分沒有裁罰的問題那至於第二個就是說有關這個內政部他移送15件案件給我們的這個部分確實有一點時間的落差"},{"start":484.309,"end":508.661,"text":"在我們上個禮拜五月一號的時候我先跟書發部說啦所以妳也承認有移送嘛是的然後又跟我講一個叫時間差那我只能說妳書發部是狀況外連時間差都沒掌握嗎妳書發部可以在質詢的時候官員可以推給什麼內政部嗎妳如果已經承認是有移送資料啦"},{"start":509.321,"end":516.583,"text":"5月1號的早上9點來我想請教一下我想請教一下請問警政署署長剛剛我們的抒發部官員這樣回答那我想我們未來會再加強互相的這個聯繫跟聯繫上的一個合作的一個關係對啊我覺得你們詐騙彼此比較齊心一點"},{"start":537.159,"end":546.327,"text":"不要遇到責任就開始第一件事想要就先推還先推給自己其他的部會這不是一個政府通力合作的一個做法"},{"start":547.639,"end":555.124,"text":"我要跟各位說啦根據統計2021年到2023年刑警人均移送案件數是從62.69件上升到84.56件那三年工作量暴增35%嘛 署長對不對對 沒錯那也因此造成我們現在全國偵查所人力有14%的預算缺額那基層負擔也非常重嘛 對不對對"},{"start":576.599,"end":600.467,"text":"所以因此其實警察負責的我認為是事後的偵辦跟追查這是主要你們的主力在這個地方嘛沒有錯但是詐騙廣告釣魚網站網路詐騙的源頭管制我必須講書發部這不能推給內政部啦不能推給我們那個警政署啦你們才是職責之所在吧"},{"start":601.59,"end":626.863,"text":"是 跟委員報告 這個部分來講的話其實我們在今年的打炸綱02.0開始上路之後肅發部是防炸的主政機關在這裡面呢 我們也做了許多的一些措施我直接講個結論啦我真的覺得積極度是不夠那我要特別講 我要問一下警政署啊你們現在在追查詐騙的實務上網路廣告管制的層面上有沒有遇到什麼問題希望肅發部來協助的"},{"start":629.437,"end":642.765,"text":"我們現在遇到的問題就是這個廣告商雖然有實名制但是還不斷的重複在下廣告所以源頭一定要止住那如果源頭不止住這些廣告商的話一定要跟他處罰啦"},{"start":644.178,"end":658.897,"text":"一定要處罰 他自己廣告商 炸房條例本來就有規範很清楚他有自主要去做管理 要去做這樣的一個責任但是他不做的話 法已經有規範如果違反這個規範 一定要處罰了"},{"start":660.627,"end":687.779,"text":"來 我們請已經承認你現在是你的主責業務的書發部警政署的聲音聽到了沒有有的 我們其實跟警政署一直都有在做聯繫包括說上個禮拜移送過來的15個案件我們也已經在昨天跟警政署還有司法單位一起來研究這15個案子目前應該有一個案子有疑似資料接錄不實的部分我做個結論啦書發部的工作績 想讓國人來評價"},{"start":689.912,"end":713.448,"text":"但是無論如何不要把責任推給基層員警打詐事後當然去追很重要可是你那事前的洞沒有補齊你是累死員警現在尤其打詐團的那個詐騙技術網路上的做法真的是日新月異你今天靠基層員警去抓事後去抓怎麼抓得完他利率又這麼的大"},{"start":715,"end":736.978,"text":"所以今天速發部要把這個事情放在肩膀上去想想看你今天如果你沒有在源頭上把這些詐騙的一些漏洞把它縮緊一點的話你就累死所有警察也抓不完詐騙啊我每天到地上跑活動我都看到我們的員警在那邊宣導反詐騙為什麼"},{"start":739.741,"end":767.194,"text":"因為詐騙真的很嚴重 幾乎每一個活動沒錯吧 署長每個活動都是我們的警察同仁在宣導反詐騙吧沒有錯幾乎每一個啦所以我都已經熟到變老朋友了啦因為都是警察同仁這邊宣導反詐騙所以我要跟我們政府部門說啊就是說基本上 請你們的合作能夠更緊密啊最後我還是要講一下前面的質詢啦"},{"start":768.564,"end":793.591,"text":"我跟部長說我剛剛看到您的答詢答我還是要講一句話我說司法資源是有限的我今天也真的還是很遺憾我念幾個我們的司法人員在媒體受訪的一個感慨然後給我們部長參考他說有基層檢察官受訪說政治介入司法 招橫太明顯"},{"start":794.953,"end":818.616,"text":"醫生職責守護捍衛追求的司法正義現在已經被總統跟執政的民進黨完全破壞殆盡也有調查員受訪指出在調查局裡只要有一點良心曾經犯過案的調查員都私下感嘆整個調查系統從上到下早已失去風骨睜眼說瞎話只要跟對組織就可能升官發財私下難看讓人感怒不敢言"},{"start":819.156,"end":841.829,"text":"有資深檢察官受訪指出現在好像你隨地吐個痰檢調都可以把你辦成殺人放火重罪檢調司法警政首長全市總統清點的人馬猶如一條鞭作業全部只聽命於一人展現出效忠組織的大動作各地檢調單位還爭相求表現希望讓長官看到也有資深檢察官受訪時說"},{"start":843.61,"end":869.288,"text":"在野黨台南宜蘭台北新北黨部陸續遭到檢調搜索檢察官佛曉初級帶隊抓人講得難聽一點就算是重罪五年以上刑責的販毒被告也只是在家收傳票到庭說明而不實聯署書所涉及的偽造文書涉罪重是五年以下刑責卻要大陣仗搜索逮人羈押押人不成"},{"start":870.169,"end":892.548,"text":"為達目的一再抗告那麼嚴重不符羈押比例原則我知道部長你不會認同這些話啦對我是不會認同因為我在否認所謂的什麼去介入因為我一直在強調說個案我們都不介入不干涉不指導嘛部長我跟你已經相處一年了你回答的標準公式我也知道那這個本來就是沒有去介入嘛我要先跟部長說"},{"start":894.332,"end":919.79,"text":"就像剛剛我問人民的詐騙情感的時候你竟然可以嘟弄了半天連人民的情感你都沒有辦法正面的回應我要跟你講就是說基本上我非常了解部長啊我非常了解部長今天只要是對現在的檢察官對法務部對我們現在執政黨有所指責的部分你都不會放在心上嗎"},{"start":921.365,"end":937.966,"text":"今天但是社會上有一把尺在那裡啦我還是做一個簡單的結論這歷史有兩種比較一個就是垂直一個叫水平垂直比較是從古到今我就直接講嘛你之前問了多少次你們也答不出來有哪一個總統"},{"start":939.825,"end":966.124,"text":"陳水扁 馬英九 蔡英文 李登輝到賴清德有哪一個總統執政任內他的司法檢調全台灣大市搜索在野黨黨部並且關押在野黨黨的幹部只有一個啦 賴清德那第二個今天到底有哪一個總統在任內會去以黨主席身份下令要求全黨公職來發動大罷免"},{"start":968.527,"end":995.085,"text":"李登輝沒有 蔡英文沒有 陳水扁也沒有 馬英九也沒有啊只有我們天眾英明的賴清德總統有啊你是賴清德總統 賴政府嘛 民進黨 清典的官我不會對你有期待太高啦 你也不可能講出忤逆他們的話但是這些鐵蒸蒸 鐵糟糟的歷史事實擺在眼前不管說今天你們怎麼講 我也要講一個今天剛剛中憲委員或王紅委員資訊重點只有一個"},{"start":996.107,"end":1019.233,"text":"作弊當然都要抓 我也不反對作弊要抓可是我看到一個是重如泰山的抓 一個輕如鴻毛的燒我告訴你 人民沒有那麼盲目 看得清清楚楚今天如果說這麼多的一個案件 是這種狀況的話我告訴你 大家看得清楚 最後一個結論講完"},{"start":1024.177,"end":1045.257,"text":"這麼多的力量這麼多的司法資源你放在一個剛剛吳宗憲我已經問過了以前從來不去啟用的所謂的績效的一個方式現在用績效去獎勵去抓了之後你有沒有想過站在後面的警政署啊有沒有想過站在後面的員警啊有沒有想過站在後面的老百姓啊"},{"start":1046.721,"end":1053.26,"text":"如果你今天有說一個陳菊走了問號能夠4小時逮人的效率去辦詐騙"},{"start":1055.63,"end":1082.31,"text":"我剛剛一開始講的 那位太太通力合作 權力掃蕩的喔這個都是因為人民的苦 我們感同身受所以我們才會強力的掃蕩 才會打造司法的通過才會聯合在源頭的管制所以當然我們可以做得更好 我們一直都覺得我們做得不夠部長 你知道我現在質詢你 你也知道我對你都很尊重"},{"start":1083.53,"end":1095.826,"text":"就像你剛剛一講話 你也沒回答我問題 我還是讓你回答我講的是什麼 我講的跟你有矛盾嗎我講一個最簡單的點啊今天司法資源就是有限的啊"},{"start":1096.88,"end":1124.256,"text":"今天我今天遇到那位老太太她被詐騙幾百萬抱著我哭這就是鐵證的人民的現實啊那我剛剛說今天有人說陳菊走了問號在網路上問這句問號四小時逮到人難道不是事實嗎可是今天我說你的辦詐騙效率如果有像逮陳菊走了問號這樣的四個小時的績效的話也許那位老太太就不用抱著我哭啊謝謝你啊"},{"start":1126.687,"end":1127.028,"text":"好 謝謝吳委員 因為待會"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":946,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（10時42分）有請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、內政部警政署署長，還有數發部副署長。"],["主席：請副秘書長、部長、署長及副署長。"],["王副秘書長梅英：委員早。"],["羅委員智強：我想請問四位首長，現在臺灣的詐騙問題嚴不嚴重？先請司法院回答，請問嚴不嚴重？"],["王副秘書長梅英：我們從收案量來看，從司法院第一線收案量來看就知道很嚴重。"],["羅委員智強：非常嚴重啦！"],["王副秘書長梅英：是。"],["羅委員智強：再請問我們的部長，嚴重嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：詐騙的確是全民公敵，我們檢察官收案的負擔是很嚴重，我們就是強力的掃蕩，也獲得一些成果。"],["羅委員智強：警政署。"],["張署長榮興：對，現在詐騙在國內的治安面是算比較嚴重的。"],["羅委員智強：好，數發部。"],["黃副署長雅萍：是，我們同意，現在確實詐騙是嚴重的。"],["羅委員智強：很好，今天我們四位首長的共識，臺灣詐騙非常嚴重。我先分享一個個案，然後再從總體來看我們現在的詐騙有多嚴重。","我最近挨家挨戶在我的選區送感謝信，所以路上會遇到很多民眾，很多民眾會跟我談各式各樣的問題，有時候是選民陳情、有時候則是告訴我遇到了什麼樣的狀況，我就是一一的傾聽，你們知道我在路上遇到非常多的其中一個態樣是在抱怨哪一件事情嗎？部長，你知道嗎？猜猜看，不然請我們司法院副秘書長，就是我剛剛講的題目，詐騙、詐騙真的很嚴重。","我遇到一個老太太，他看到我就哭了，他說他被詐騙了好幾百萬，追不回來，他很難過，其實這對他來講也是財務上很大的負擔，但家人還算體諒，都在安慰他，但他覺得他自己心裡過不去，他說這些錢也追不回來了。這是我遇到的許多個案當中的其中一個，我們的詐騙問題有多嚴重，已經變成國恥了吧？這句話我不知道我們部長認不認同，在臺灣對人民來講，詐騙是非常痛苦的一件事情，沒錯吧，部長？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我剛才有說詐騙是全民公敵，我們這陣子經由打詐四法的通過，從源頭的行政管制來杜絕、阻絕了很多的詐騙，在臨櫃的部分，也提醒民眾免受詐騙；另外，我們的強力掃蕩也獲得一些成果，我想這部分大家是很努力的……"],["羅委員智強：來，我們來看一下……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們整個作法讓詐騙到現在應該已經有反轉往下的跡象了，這是我們打詐四法跟大家……"],["羅委員智強：好，非常謝謝您的往下。今年3月詐騙的財損是多少錢？部長？"],["鄭部長銘謙：有關財損的部分，這個是要由那個……"],["羅委員智強：70億啦！請署長回答好了，對不對？"],["張署長榮興：70億。"],["羅委員智強：70億喔！比2月成長了多少？"],["張署長榮興：2月份大概60億左右。"],["羅委員智強：16.6%，對不對？"],["張署長榮興：60億啦！"],["羅委員智強：到4月變成多少？"],["張署長榮興：大概75億左右。"],["羅委員智強：我的數字是76.5億喔！"],["張署長榮興：對，大概75億、76億左右。"],["羅委員智強：好，再多了將近7.9%。"],["張署長榮興：是，不過委員，我是不是能把這個趨勢跟大家報告一下？就是我們打詐四法通過、經過大家的努力之後的趨勢，打詐四法是去年7月開始……"],["羅委員智強：我先跟你講一個最簡單的，人民的感受跟現在實際的狀況，以人民的感受來說，我在路上走就感受到人民對詐騙真的是深惡痛絕，這個感受沒錯吧？"],["張署長榮興：沒錯。"],["羅委員智強：對啊！"],["張署長榮興：我覺得還是有努力的空間，持續再做努力。"],["羅委員智強：好，謝謝，謝謝你繼續努力啦！所以部長，不要鬆懈啊！我當然知道法務部……先聽我講完啦……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個沒有鬆懈，如果鬆懈的話，怎麼可能臺北地檢偵辦「斬金行動」偵破了全國最大假出金集團……"],["羅委員智強：好啦，我改個詞彙啦！我改個新詞彙啦！我改詞彙啦……"],["鄭部長銘謙：詐騙157億、被害人達到5,080人，起訴80人，還押了五十幾個人，我想這是整個打詐團隊的努力，這部分是有目共睹的，要跟委員做一個報告。"],["羅委員智強：我跟部長說，實際上的成績跟人民的感受，我剛剛都講了，不管從財損來講或是從人民的感受來講，當然我沒有否定我們這些司法單位對於打詐的一些努力，我沒有否定啦！可是作為部長，我覺得你要有更多的同理心，去看看民眾的痛苦，就像我遇到的那個民眾的痛苦，他痛不痛苦，請問部長？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們都是跟民眾的感受是一樣的，所以……"],["羅委員智強：請署長好了！"],["鄭部長銘謙：所以我們才會大力的掃蕩，從源頭、跨部會的整合……"],["羅委員智強：心再柔軟一點啦！謝謝你。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個我們都有一再的……所以我們罪贓返還的……"],["羅委員智強：你看，我連請部長你對人民感同身受你都說不出口！"],["鄭部長銘謙：對啊，我們感同身受，所以我們一直對偵查中的案件要求要大力的查扣……"],["羅委員智強：好啦，我請署長啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：然後罪贓返還，彌補被害人的損害，因為被害人真的很可憐，所以我們努力的要求他們一定要調解、和解，去賠償被害人的損失，然後當作量刑的參考，這個是要給被害人一些保障，所以我們也落實詐欺危害防制對被害人的保障，我想這個部分，未來我們還是會再努力。"],["羅委員智強：部長，我先請署長好不好？我想我對部長真的是很尊敬也尊重嘛，對不對？你剛剛講話也不打斷你，讓你講，雖然我的質詢時間有限，可是我今天其實只講一件事情，人民的痛苦，我相信署長感受到吧？"],["張署長榮興：我是站在民眾的同理心上去看待。"],["羅委員智強：非常好，謝謝署長。要的沒有別的啦，就這份同理心啦！","接下來，我最近看到打詐有些狀況，我也不得不說，我覺得行政部門好像打詐有些矛盾，我想要釐清一下。前陣子數發部官員在接受洪孟楷委員質詢時聲稱詐騙廣告無法裁罰是因為內政部沒有提供資料，結果刑事局發新聞稿嚴正澄清，表示截至今年已經通報業者下架3.8萬件詐騙廣告，且已經彙整移交數發部，要求依法懲處。我想請問數發部，刑事局的新聞稿是真的嗎？你們兩單位有什麼誤解嗎？他們都移交給你們了嗎？"],["黃副署長雅萍：是的，報告委員，我想這個部分是有些時間的落差，有關於3.8萬件的這個部分，確實已經都有通知網路平臺業者去依法下架，所以這個部分有在期限內去做下架，這個部分沒有裁罰的問題。至於第二個，有關內政部移送15件案件給我們這部分，確實有一點時間的落差，在上個禮拜5月1號的時候，其實已經移送，我們確實5月1號……"],["羅委員智強：我先跟數發部說，所以你也承認有移送嘛？"],["黃副署長雅萍：是的。"],["羅委員智強：然後又跟我講一個叫時間差，那我只能說你數發部是狀況外，連時間差都沒掌握嗎？數發部在質詢的時候，官員可以推給內政部嗎？你都已經承認是有移送資料啦！"],["黃副署長雅萍：5月1號早上9點的時候我們收到了。"],["羅委員智強：來，我想請教一下，我想請問警政署署長。"],["張署長榮興：委員好。"],["羅委員智強：剛剛我們數發部的官員這樣回答。"],["張署長榮興：我想我們未來會再加強彼此之間互相聯繫跟合作的關係。"],["羅委員智強：對啊，我覺得你們面對詐騙案彼此之間要齊心一點，不要遇到責任第一件事就想著要先推，還先推給其他的部會，這不是一個政府通力合作的作法。我要跟各位說，根據統計，2021年到2023年刑警人均移送案件數從62.69件上升到84.56件，三年工作量暴增35%，署長，對不對？"],["張署長榮興：對，沒錯。"],["羅委員智強：也因此造成我們現在全國偵查佐人力有14%的預算缺額，基層負擔也非常重，對不對？"],["張署長榮興：對。"],["羅委員智強：其實我認為警察負責的是事後的偵辦跟追查，主要你們的主力在這個地方嘛。"],["張署長榮興：沒有錯。"],["羅委員智強：但是詐騙廣告、釣魚網站、網路詐騙的源頭管制，我必須講，數發部，這不能推給內政部啦！不能推給我們的警政署啦！你們才是職責之所在吧！"],["黃副署長雅萍：是。跟委員報告，就這個部分來講，其實在今年的打詐綱領2.0開始上路之後，數發部是防詐的主政機關，在這裡面我們也推出許多措施來做一些……"],["羅委員智強：我直接講結論，我真的覺得積極度是不夠的。我要特別問一下警政署，你們現在在實務上追查詐騙，網路廣告管制的層面上有沒有遇到什麼問題希望數發部來協助的？"],["張署長榮興：我們現在遇到的問題就是廣告商，雖然有實名制，但還是不斷地重複下廣告，所以源頭一定要止住，如果源頭不止住這些廣告商的話，一定要給他處罰。"],["羅委員智強：非常好。"],["張署長榮興：一定要處罰他，對於自己的廣告商，詐防條例本來就規範得很清楚，他要自主去管理，要負起這個責任，但是他不做的話，法已經有規範，如果違反這個規範一定要處罰。"],["羅委員智強：我們請現在已經承認是你的主責業務的數發部，警政署的聲音聽到了沒有？"],["黃副署長雅萍：有的，我們其實跟警政署一直都有在聯繫，包括上個禮拜移送過來的15個案件，我們也已經在昨天跟警政署還有司法單位一起來研究這15個案子，目前應該有1個案子疑似有資料揭露不實的部分……"],["羅委員智強：我做個結論，數發部的工作績效就讓國人來評價，但是無論如何不要把責任推給基層員警，打詐事後去追當然很重要，可是你這個事前的洞沒有補齊，你是累死員警。尤其現在詐團的詐騙技術，網路上的作法真的是日新月異，它的利潤又這麼大，你今天要靠基層員警事後去抓，怎麼抓得完？所以今天數發部要把這個事情放在肩膀上，去想想看今天如果你沒有在源頭上把這些詐騙的漏洞縮緊一點的話，你就算累死所有的警察也抓不完詐騙啊！我每天到地方跑活動，我都看到我們的員警在那邊宣導反詐騙，為什麼？因為詐騙真的很嚴重，幾乎每一個活動都有我們的警察同仁在宣導反詐騙，署長，沒錯吧？"],["張署長榮興：沒有錯。"],["羅委員智強：幾乎每一個啦！我都已經熟到變成老朋友了，因為都是警察同仁在宣導反詐騙，所以我要跟我們的政府部門說，基本上請你們的合作能夠更緊密。","最後我還是要講一下前面的質詢，我跟部長說，我剛剛看到您的詢答，我還是要講一句話，司法資源是有限的，我今天也真的很遺憾，我唸幾個司法人員在媒體受訪時的感慨給部長參考。有基層檢察官在受訪時說，政治介入司法的鑿痕太明顯，一生職責守護捍衛追求的司法正義，現在已經被總統跟執政的民進黨完全破壞殆盡。","也有調查員受訪指出，在調查局裡只要有一點良心，曾經辦過案的調查員都私下感嘆，整個調查系統從上到下早已失去風骨，睜眼說瞎話，只要跟對主子就可能升官發財，吃相難看，讓人敢怒不敢言。","有資深檢察官受訪指出，現在好像你隨地吐個痰，檢調都可以把你辦成殺人放火般的重罪，檢調、司法、警政首長全是總統欽點的人馬，猶如一條鞭作業，全部只聽命於一人，展現出效忠主子的大動作，各地檢調單位還爭相求表現，希望讓長官看到。也有資深的檢察官受訪時說，在野黨臺南、宜蘭、臺北、新北黨部陸續遭到檢調搜索，檢察官拂曉出擊帶隊抓人，講得難聽一點，就算是重罪五年以上刑責的販毒被告也只是在家收傳票到庭說明，而不實連署書所涉及的偽造文書，最重是五年以下刑責，卻要大陣仗搜索逮人羈押，押人不成，為達目的一再抗告，嚴重不符羈押比例原則。我知道部長你不會認同這些話啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，我是不會認同，因為……"],["羅委員智強：我當然知道你不會認同。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我一再否認所謂的什麼去介入，因為我一直在強調，個案我們都不介入、不干涉、不指導嘛，然後偽……"],["羅委員智強：部長，我跟你已經相處一年了，你回答的標準公式我也知道。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個本來就沒有去介入嘛。"],["羅委員智強：我要先跟部長說，就像剛剛我問人民的詐騙情感的時候，你竟然可以嘟囔了半天，連人民的情感，你都沒有辦法正面回應……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個就是……"],["羅委員智強：我要跟你講的就是，基本上我非常了解部長，今天只要是對現在的檢察官、對法務部、對我們現在的執政黨有所指責的部分……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這種詐騙是很過分的事情，所以才會提醒我們要有強力打詐、掃蕩的決心，然後還給被害人一個公道，這個你不要懷疑。"],["羅委員智強：你都不會放在心上嘛，但是今天社會上有一把尺在那裡啦。","我還是做一個簡單的結論，歷史的比較有兩種，一個是垂直比較，一個是水平比較，垂直比較就是從古到今。我就直接講，我之前問了多少次你們也答不出來，有哪一個總統，包括陳水扁、馬英九、蔡英文、李登輝到賴清德，有哪一個總統在他執政任內，司法檢調全臺灣大肆搜索在野黨黨部並且關押在野黨黨部的幹部？只有一個，賴清德。","第二個，今天到底有哪一個總統在他任內會以黨主席身分下令要求全黨的公職來發動大罷免？李登輝沒有、蔡英文沒有、陳水扁沒有、馬英九也沒有，只有我們天縱英明的賴清德總統有。你是賴清德總統（賴政府、民進黨）欽點的官，我不會對你期待太高，你也不可能講出忤逆他們的話，但是這些鐵崢崢、鐵昭昭的歷史事實擺在眼前。","不管今天你們怎麼講，我也要講一個，今天剛剛宗憲委員或是王鴻薇委員質詢重點只有一個，作弊當然都要抓，我也不反對作弊要抓，可是我看到一個是重如泰山的抓，一個輕如鴻毛的燒。我告訴你，人民沒有那麼盲目，看得清清楚楚，今天如果這麼多的案件是這種狀況的話，我告訴你，大家看得很清楚。","最後我講完一個結論。這麼多的力量、這麼多的司法資源，剛剛吳宗憲委員已經問過了，你放在一個以前從來不去啟用的所謂績效的方式，現在用績效去獎勵、去抓的時候，你有沒有想過站在後面的警政署？有沒有想過站在後面的員警？有沒有想過站在後面的老百姓？如果你今天有一個說「陳菊走了？」能夠4小時逮人的效率去辦詐騙，我剛剛一開始講的那一位太太……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們是全力打詐的，我們檢察官檢警調都是通力合作全力掃蕩的，因為人民的苦我們感同身受，所以我們才會強力的掃蕩，才會有打詐四法的通過，才會聯合在源頭管制，當然我們可以做得更好，我們一直都覺得我們做得不夠，所以我們要全力地……"],["羅委員智強：部長，你知道我現在質詢你，我對你都很尊重，就像你剛剛一講話，你也沒回答我問題，我還是讓你回答，我講的是什麼？我講的跟你有矛盾嗎？我講的跟你有矛盾嗎？我講一個最簡單的點，今天司法資源就是有限的啊！我今天遇到那位老太太，他被詐騙幾百萬抱著我哭，這就是鐵錚錚人民的現實啊！那我剛剛說今天有人說「陳菊走了？」在網路上問這句，是問號，4小時逮到人，難道不是事實嗎？今天我說的是你辦詐騙效率如果有像逮「陳菊走了？」這樣的4個小時績效的話，也許那位老太太就不用抱著我哭啊！謝謝你啊！"],["主席：謝謝。吳委員，待會李委員講完我們休息5分鐘，剛剛宣告了，你要先講還是你們要換？"],["吳委員思瑤：可不可以讓我講完再休息？"],["主席：好，可以。這個部分因為吳委員有需要，那我們就改為吳委員結束之後再休息5分鐘。","部長還有副秘，你們回去看一下法官論壇還有檢察官論壇，很多基層的法官、檢察官在抱怨政治辦案，你們回去看一下論壇，那個是外人進不去的封閉式論壇，你們可以看看。","下一位請麥玉珍委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":512,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-15","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","王義川","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","吳思瑤","麥玉珍","李坤城","林月琴","黃珊珊","陳培瑜","莊瑞雄","翁曉玲","林倩綺","沈發惠","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":423,"meetingDate":["2025-05-07"],"gazette_id":"1144601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144601_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心指揮官、內政\n部警政署署長、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、金融監督管理委員會率所屬相關單位列席就\n「臺灣遭聯合國警示為東亞、東南亞跨國詐欺集團據點之檢討與防範，及打詐四法與相關子法施\n行後之具體成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144601_00008"}}}