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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 957.224, \"end\": 957.264, \"score\": 0.496}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 957.264, \"end\": 957.385, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 957.385, \"end\": 957.405, \"score\": 0.072}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 957.405, \"end\": 957.425, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"麥\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,674 --> 00:00:05,558\n主席好有請主委李信鴻主委有請你好\n\n2\n00:00:13,120 --> 00:00:39,311\n主委好台灣討論不在籍投票的制度已經超過20年了身為民主自豪的國家我們卻遲遲為依法在法治的層面建立完善的制度這無疑是民主發展的一大缺口不在籍投票的制度是保障人民投票權\n\n3\n00:00:41,052 --> 00:00:55,002\n擴大政治的參與還有深化民主重要的工具國際上包含美國、日本、韓國等許多國家的民主國家早已經實施多年台灣完全可以參考還有實踐而我們行政院目前也提出全國性公投公民投票不在籍投票的法案、草案投票法的草案\n\n4\n00:01:09,852 --> 00:01:12,293\n適用範圍限於說公民投票甚至排除與總統副總統還有立法委員選舉同日執行的公投請問我們主委你有這樣的理由還有設計的邏輯是什麼為何不能一併同日選舉呢\n\n5\n00:01:34,850 --> 00:02:02,495\n跟委員報告因為貴黨團已經提出這樣一個公投案立法院即將進行也許他如果說通過院會的話他會交到中選會來辦理公民投票那中選會既然是公民投票的主辦機關在這個時間點上就這個特定的案件我實在是不宜來表示我個人的意見\n\n6\n00:02:03,575 --> 00:02:05,536\n這點請委員能夠諒解這個是針對市啊為什麼有沒有認同有沒有認同說這樣子的一個公投會牽涉到我們中選會審查各方的意見所以我在這邊如果說我的意見是怎麼樣那對其他的委員是不尊重的\n\n7\n00:02:27,444 --> 00:02:40,099\n這個是你的工作不是尊重的問題我問你的工作你覺得有沒有認同委員的指教因為在今年四月份我們卓院長也在答詢中也表示可對市\n\n8\n00:02:43,123 --> 00:02:47,084\n公投開始試行因為對人的選舉比較複雜比較高但是這番話其實就反映什麼行政院長並不否定不在籍投票的可能性既然是對試公投可以規劃請問全國性選舉就是直接\n\n9\n00:03:05,431 --> 00:03:26,751\n这选集就是完全做不到吗我们认为不再集投票是找这不是技术的问题也不是制度不行而是政府与中选会根本没有积极要做这件事情所以我们台湾民众党才提出转移投票的制度\n\n10\n00:03:27,552 --> 00:03:31,216\n也多次向我們中選會溝通也建議當時中選會說改口說什麼問題在於民眾信任度不足現在你又說不是你不方便講所以說中選會是我曾經對這一項的制度你做過\n\n11\n00:03:47,975 --> 00:03:51,181\n民眾的信任度調查嗎還是你自己說的所以是否具體的資料可以提供嗎還是說根本就是我們行政太多的藉口而已呢\n\n12\n00:04:06,939 --> 00:04:21,823\n因為跟我們一貫的立場是一致的就是說對市的不在籍投票也就是公民投票的不在籍投票尤其是從移轉投票開始這個一向是中選會跟這個\n\n13\n00:04:24,344 --> 00:04:38,053\n內政部一向的這個意見我們甚至於具體的行動就是全國性公民投票不在籍投票法的草案已經二度送到立法院來所以你是支持我們啊前委員支持你要支持我們的這個不在籍投票的法案委員支持我們的這個因為他已經在立法院了嘛就是\n\n14\n00:04:47,359 --> 00:05:05,197\n在立法院你也是要表態支持還是不支持或者你調查有沒有調查的具體的資料委員所說的這個不在籍投票的這個公民投票我現在不能講支持不支持因為我要審議啊對啊你審議你支持就會這個就是大家就是\n\n15\n00:05:09,028 --> 00:05:12,690\n我們現在根據我們調查嘛大家歡喜嘛因為在20歲到29歲的我們全國有七成支持移轉投票還有年輕人支持最高了所以呢我們在地工作啊或者是離鄉的打拼的年輕人他們強烈的就是說投票的需求但是因為\n\n16\n00:05:34,163 --> 00:05:50,141\n阿姨这些工作读书啊这些所以呢我们也很清楚认知说制度是便利性结果我们政府就是就是一直在理由一堆就是不行动所以最照顾年轻人的\n\n17\n00:05:51,483 --> 00:06:13,843\n賴總統的政見就形成強烈的落差所以我們再來再問你的就是關於你的資料裡面有在報告目前在處理搜尋人請求設置投票所的行政輸送請問目前對於在監所的涉及\n\n18\n00:06:14,443 --> 00:06:21,573\n符合投票的資格收行人各監守的做法又為何中選會是否掌握這個人數還有在2023年10月台北高等行政法院的裁定\n\n19\n00:06:33,739 --> 00:06:57,470\n選務機構應該在台北監獄所設置投票所還有請問我們中小會你採取哪一些的措施所以未來在不採取投票的制度的推行的時候在受益人的時候他們投票的保障你有考慮嗎是說你有研議關於這個法律的行政配套嗎有嗎\n\n20\n00:07:03,257 --> 00:07:20,646\n關於授權人的投票權的保障這個在理論上我們也是支持的但是在選舉的實務以及監所的戒護實際的狀況底下的確有一些困難\n\n21\n00:07:21,707 --> 00:07:24,789\n就是因為有困難所以從去年從去年開始的這個個案的這個訴訟到目前為止那司法機關都支持我們的立場\n\n22\n00:07:41,589 --> 00:07:44,912\n我們再重申我們再次移轉投票最是最直接的還有說我們有最具名義的基本就是不在一起投票的方式同是選舉當天\n\n23\n00:07:57,961 --> 00:08:01,264\n人在台灣,在台灣,所以本人親自投票就能讓就是外地的人,就學的人民眾就是不用單車勞頓所以這偏鄉的人也可以在這樣子的一個具有意義所以我們的民眾黨主張,一貫的主張方向就呼應我們中選會,不要再用行政的困難的藉口\n\n24\n00:08:22,182 --> 00:08:28,972\n也不要做完成就是我們不再舉公投的制度所以我們是應該就提出說我們盡快提出就是涵蓋總統副總統立委啊這個選舉完整的版本這個才是\n\n25\n00:08:39,467 --> 00:08:54,258\n對選民還有對我們民主的基本的交代這個才是我們想要的我也對不起如果是這麼強烈的主張的話直接提案可能會比公民投票要快一點我們已經都提了直接提法律案但是你們都沒有立法權是在立法院裡面\n\n26\n00:09:04,150 --> 00:09:18,919\n立法權在立法院裡面我們提案也是大家同意三方溝通如果不用溝通的話就直接提了嘛叫你們來報告幹嘛呢如果要講效率的話其實是直接提案立法會比公民投票要快\n\n27\n00:09:19,659 --> 00:09:22,480\n我們要的是我們民意剛才跟你講的強調我們是要我們立法院我們是我們要行政公立你們有沒有依法行政對不對我們是民意的聲音要反映是我們要跟政府共同也是要民意共同不是說我們要提法案\n\n28\n00:09:43,667 --> 00:09:50,913\n要提法案也是民意需要不是我們自己說的算也不是你說的算你不是說你不是你說的算但是你有權利你有要做的義務要回答不是一直在說別人還是怎麼樣這是你的義務啊再來再問了這個說你就行政中立你都是說沒有出一個\n\n29\n00:10:08,069 --> 00:10:10,972\n一個真正的去做了但是現在是我們民間的我們人民作為一個人民做主的志工團他們這個組織目前有向中選會提出法律覆轍的公投有四個案其中一個公投案是在今年2月7號就提出了\n\n30\n00:10:32,908 --> 00:10:43,982\n依據公投法第10條第3項主管機關需要在60日內審核完畢但是認定是否有這樣子的規定還有\n\n31\n00:10:46,414 --> 00:10:49,896\n通知補正但是這個組織認為他在中選會提出由中選會提出的4月23日聽證距離2月7號的提案日已經超過76日請問主委這樣子是否\n\n32\n00:11:07,286 --> 00:11:25,657\n就違背公投案第十條第三項的六十天內的規定中選會是否認為公開聽證不屬於六十天審核的程序的一部分如果是你的意志如何那是你專科的嗎這樣回答可以嘛對不對\n\n33\n00:11:27,339 --> 00:11:47,231\n我請我們同仁回答不是你專科你當主委不是你專科都問別人包委員有關這個提案60天審核如果有聽證的話是不包括在內的那我們這幾個案子都是在60天內提委員會來這個審核那是因為委員會議有決議說要繼續辦理聽證\n\n34\n00:11:50,493 --> 00:11:53,875\n所以說六十天內都是這個規定嘛但是現在是召開聽證會就是屬於這個程序嗎如果是你預計如何呢如果是這樣子的話通知完了法案先是就是影響人民公投案的權利嘛\n\n35\n00:12:09,443 --> 00:12:37,196\n但是是否影響這樣子的進行還有時程但是公投審查中中選會對某一些提案的理由書行政的嚴格就是議員的審查但是要補正或者返回這樣子的話我們主委這邊我們的中選會這邊審查提案時不同人提案提出的公投所以說是政治立場嗎有涉及政治立場還是比方說我們公投立場的執政黨\n\n36\n00:12:38,917 --> 00:12:59,707\n立場相同的話你就可以採取意氣審查的態度如何消除不同提案人審查的標準有這樣子的不信任感因為你是規定60天但是你在70天76天內你才有這樣子的召開聽證所以說的規定如何\n\n37\n00:13:02,722 --> 00:13:07,808\n阿你預計什麼你要預計什麼你這樣這麼做嘛你叫別人預計60天內阿你自己沒有預計60天內那叫這些公民團體他們如何法律規定的審核60天不包含經證程序的進行\n\n38\n00:13:21,903 --> 00:13:25,625\n所以說就不包含所以如果這樣子的話他們在補正的時間60天內就是不包含所以他們就是在60天外他們就是管理公證後再來補正是嗎就是提案跟補正以後的審核都是法律規定都是60天聽證程序\n\n39\n00:13:43,837 --> 00:13:53,161\n的進行是不包含在這60天內不包含但是你的補正的時候你補正不再包含這樣子的話你就超過時間來去辦公對不對你開這個聽證會你超過時間了你補正的是在60天內啊你自己開的又再超過這個60天內你叫人家要怎麼報啊\n\n40\n00:14:06,069 --> 00:14:10,131\n這樣子就是因為這樣子他們才會在再來跟申訴嗎如果不是這樣子的話他們不會去申訴不會去說依據法律但是你們的聽證會就是在法律的60天內所以他們才會這個要說明讓這些民團他們才覺得說我們是怎麼去規定的你依據哪裡的這樣子大家\n\n41\n00:14:32,661 --> 00:14:50,920\n才會所以我希望這個部分你提出一個真正的說明所以我們希望就是我們的選舉的公投制度要有公信力來自中選會是否依法行政保障人民直接民權的行使如果主管機構是連就是\n\n42\n00:14:54,923 --> 00:15:02,505\n機構的連法都不能遵守人民如何信任我們是中立的所以專業的選舉機構台灣的民主如何進步所以目前我們中選委應該會說不是只有針對罷免除了罷免我們中選委還有其他的業務不管剛剛我提出的移轉投票還是收行人的投票的權利又是公投案的審查日期多希望我們主委有\n\n43\n00:15:24,652 --> 00:15:29,654\n書面的你現在因為時間的關係主席不好意思但是我們希望我們主委這邊要有改善還有說盡快就是符合很多工作我們沒有違反法律規定的時程所以我希望你就是要讓這些民團他們申請的結德說你超過這個時間但是他的補件時間在60天你超過來去辦卷我拜託委員能夠轉達\n\n44\n00:15:51,260 --> 00:15:57,425\n不是在六十天內我拜託委員能夠轉達這個民團好好珍惜這個聽證的機會因為那是對他們有幫助的當然啊當然是能珍惜是我們希望說你在規定內讓他們補件如果他們你放寬這樣子他們就不是在六十天內補證了好那個請中選會補充好不好好謝謝麥議員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2674\t5558\t主席好 有請主委李信鴻主委有請你好\n13120\t39311\t主委好 台灣討論不在籍投票的制度已經超過20年了身為民主自豪的國家我們卻遲遲為依法在法治的層面建立完善的制度這無疑是民主發展的一大缺口不在籍投票的制度是保障人民投票權\n41052\t55002\t擴大政治的參與還有深化民主重要的工具國際上包含美國、日本、韓國等許多國家的民主國家早已經實施多年台灣完全可以參考還有實踐而我們行政院目前也提出全國性公投公民投票不在籍投票的法案、草案投票法的草案\n69852\t72293\t適用範圍限於說公民投票甚至排除與總統副總統還有立法委員選舉同日執行的公投請問我們主委你有這樣的理由還有設計的邏輯是什麼為何不能一併同日選舉呢\n94850\t122495\t跟委員報告因為貴黨團已經提出這樣一個公投案立法院即將進行也許他如果說通過院會的話他會交到中選會來辦理公民投票那中選會既然是公民投票的主辦機關在這個時間點上就這個特定的案件我實在是不宜來表示我個人的意見\n123575\t125536\t這點請委員能夠諒解這個是針對市啊為什麼有沒有認同有沒有認同說這樣子的一個公投會牽涉到我們中選會審查各方的意見所以我在這邊如果說我的意見是怎麼樣那對其他的委員是不尊重的\n147444\t160099\t這個是你的工作不是尊重的問題我問你的工作你覺得有沒有認同委員的指教因為在今年四月份我們卓院長也在答詢中也表示可對市\n163123\t167084\t公投開始試行因為對人的選舉比較複雜比較高但是這番話其實就反映什麼行政院長並不否定不在籍投票的可能性既然是對試公投可以規劃請問全國性選舉就是直接\n185431\t206751\t这选集就是完全做不到吗我们认为不再集投票是找这不是技术的问题也不是制度不行而是政府与中选会根本没有积极要做这件事情所以我们台湾民众党才提出转移投票的制度\n207552\t211216\t也多次向我們中選會溝通也建議當時中選會說改口說什麼問題在於民眾信任度不足現在你又說不是你不方便講所以說中選會是我曾經對這一項的制度你做過\n227975\t231181\t民眾的信任度調查嗎還是你自己說的所以是否具體的資料可以提供嗎還是說根本就是我們行政太多的藉口而已呢\n246939\t261823\t因為跟我們一貫的立場是一致的就是說對市的不在籍投票也就是公民投票的不在籍投票尤其是從移轉投票開始這個一向是中選會跟這個\n264344\t278053\t內政部一向的這個意見我們甚至於具體的行動就是全國性公民投票不在籍投票法的草案已經二度送到立法院來所以你是支持我們啊前委員支持你要支持我們的這個不在籍投票的法案委員支持我們的這個因為他已經在立法院了嘛就是\n287359\t305197\t在立法院你也是要表態支持還是不支持或者你調查有沒有調查的具體的資料委員所說的這個不在籍投票的這個公民投票我現在不能講支持不支持因為我要審議啊對啊你審議你支持就會這個就是大家就是\n309028\t312690\t我們現在根據我們調查嘛 大家歡喜嘛 因為在20歲到29歲的 我們全國有七成支持移轉投票 還有年輕人支持最高了所以呢 我們在地工作啊 或者是離鄉的打拼的年輕人他們強烈的就是說 投票的需求 但是因為\n334163\t350141\t阿姨这些工作读书啊这些所以呢我们也很清楚认知说制度是便利性结果我们政府就是就是一直在理由一堆就是不行动所以最照顾年轻人的\n351483\t373843\t賴總統的政見就形成強烈的落差所以我們再來再問你的就是關於你的資料裡面有在報告目前在處理搜尋人請求設置投票所的行政輸送請問目前對於在監所的涉及\n374443\t381573\t符合投票的資格收行人各監守的做法又為何中選會是否掌握這個人數還有在2023年10月台北高等行政法院的裁定\n393739\t417470\t選務機構應該在台北監獄所設置投票所還有請問我們中小會你採取哪一些的措施所以未來在不採取投票的制度的推行的時候在受益人的時候他們投票的保障你有考慮嗎是說你有研議關於這個法律的行政配套嗎有嗎\n423257\t440646\t關於授權人的投票權的保障這個在理論上我們也是支持的但是在選舉的實務以及監所的戒護實際的狀況底下的確有一些困難\n441707\t444789\t就是因為有困難所以從去年從去年開始的這個個案的這個訴訟到目前為止那司法機關都支持我們的立場\n461589\t464912\t我們再重申我們再次移轉投票最是最直接的還有說我們有最具名義的基本就是不在一起投票的方式同是選舉當天\n477961\t481264\t人在台灣,在台灣,所以本人親自投票就能讓就是外地的人,就學的人民眾就是不用單車勞頓所以這偏鄉的人也可以在這樣子的一個具有意義所以我們的民眾黨主張,一貫的主張方向就呼應我們中選會,不要再用行政的困難的藉口\n502182\t508972\t也不要做完成就是我們不再舉公投的制度所以我們是應該就提出說我們盡快提出就是涵蓋總統副總統立委啊這個選舉完整的版本這個才是\n519467\t534258\t對選民還有對我們民主的基本的交代這個才是我們想要的我也對不起如果是這麼強烈的主張的話直接提案可能會比公民投票要快一點我們已經都提了直接提法律案但是你們都沒有立法權是在立法院裡面\n544150\t558919\t立法權在立法院裡面我們提案也是大家同意三方溝通如果不用溝通的話就直接提了嘛叫你們來報告幹嘛呢如果要講效率的話其實是直接提案立法會比公民投票要快\n559659\t562480\t我們要的是我們民意剛才跟你講的強調我們是要我們立法院我們是我們要行政公立你們有沒有依法行政對不對我們是民意的聲音要反映是我們要跟政府共同也是要民意共同不是說我們要提法案\n583667\t590913\t要提法案也是民意需要不是我們自己說的算也不是你說的算你不是說你不是你說的算但是你有權利你有要做的義務要回答不是一直在說別人還是怎麼樣這是你的義務啊再來再問了這個說你就行政中立你都是說沒有出一個\n608069\t610972\t一個真正的去做了但是現在是我們民間的我們人民作為一個人民做主的志工團他們這個組織目前有向中選會提出法律覆轍的公投有四個案其中一個公投案是在今年2月7號就提出了\n632908\t643982\t依據公投法第10條第3項主管機關需要在60日內審核完畢但是認定是否有這樣子的規定還有\n646414\t649896\t通知補正但是這個組織認為他在中選會提出由中選會提出的4月23日聽證距離2月7號的提案日已經超過76日請問主委這樣子是否\n667286\t685657\t就違背公投案第十條第三項的六十天內的規定中選會是否認為公開聽證不屬於六十天審核的程序的一部分如果是 你的意志如何那是你專科的嗎 這樣回答可以嘛 對不對\n687339\t707231\t我請我們同仁回答不是你專科你當主委不是你專科都問別人包委員有關這個提案60天審核如果有聽證的話是不包括在內的那我們這幾個案子都是在60天內提委員會來這個審核那是因為委員會議有決議說要繼續辦理聽證\n710493\t713875\t所以說六十天內都是這個規定嘛但是現在是召開聽證會就是屬於這個程序嗎如果是你預計如何呢如果是這樣子的話通知完了法案先是就是影響人民公投案的權利嘛\n729443\t757196\t但是是否影響這樣子的進行還有時程但是公投審查中中選會對某一些提案的理由書行政的嚴格就是議員的審查但是要補正或者返回這樣子的話我們主委這邊我們的中選會這邊審查提案時不同人提案提出的公投所以說是政治立場嗎有涉及政治立場還是比方說我們公投立場的執政黨\n758917\t779707\t立場相同的話你就可以採取意氣審查的態度如何消除不同提案人審查的標準有這樣子的不信任感因為你是規定60天但是你在70天76天內你才有這樣子的召開聽證所以說的規定如何\n782722\t787808\t阿你預計什麼 你要預計什麼 你這樣這麼做嘛你叫別人預計60天內 阿你自己沒有預計60天內那叫這些公民團體他們如何法律規定的審核60天不包含經證程序的進行\n801903\t805625\t所以說就不包含所以如果這樣子的話他們在補正的時間60天內就是不包含所以他們就是在60天外他們就是管理公證後再來補正是嗎就是提案跟補正以後的審核都是法律規定都是60天聽證程序\n823837\t833161\t的進行是不包含在這60天內不包含但是你的補正的時候你補正不再包含這樣子的話你就超過時間來去辦公對不對你開這個聽證會你超過時間了你補正的是在60天內啊你自己開的又再超過這個60天內你叫人家要怎麼報啊\n846069\t850131\t這樣子就是因為這樣子他們才會在再來跟申訴嗎如果不是這樣子的話他們不會去申訴不會去說依據法律但是你們的聽證會就是在法律的60天內所以他們才會這個要說明讓這些民團他們才覺得說我們是怎麼去規定的你依據哪裡的這樣子大家\n872661\t890920\t才會所以我希望這個部分你提出一個真正的說明所以我們希望就是我們的選舉的公投制度要有公信力來自中選會是否依法行政保障人民直接民權的行使如果主管機構是連就是\n894923\t902505\t機構的連法都不能遵守 人民如何信任 我們是中立的所以專業的選舉機構 台灣的民主如何進步所以目前我們中選委應該會說不是只有針對罷免除了罷免 我們中選委還有其他的業務不管剛剛我提出的移轉投票還是收行人的投票的權利又是公投案的審查日期多希望我們主委有\n924652\t929654\t書面的你現在因為時間的關係主席不好意思但是我們希望我們主委這邊要有改善還有說盡快就是符合很多工作我們沒有違反法律規定的時程所以我希望你就是要讓這些民團他們申請的結德說你超過這個時間但是他的補件時間在60天你超過來去辦卷我拜託委員能夠轉達\n951260\t957425\t不是在六十天內我拜託委員能夠轉達這個民團好好珍惜這個聽證的機會因為那是對他們有幫助的當然啊當然是能珍惜是我們希望說你在規定內讓他們補件如果他們你放寬這樣子他們就不是在六十天內補證了好 那個請中選會補充好不好好 謝謝麥議員\n","txt":"主席好 有請主委李信鴻主委有請你好\n主委好 台灣討論不在籍投票的制度已經超過20年了身為民主自豪的國家我們卻遲遲為依法在法治的層面建立完善的制度這無疑是民主發展的一大缺口不在籍投票的制度是保障人民投票權\n擴大政治的參與還有深化民主重要的工具國際上包含美國、日本、韓國等許多國家的民主國家早已經實施多年台灣完全可以參考還有實踐而我們行政院目前也提出全國性公投公民投票不在籍投票的法案、草案投票法的草案\n適用範圍限於說公民投票甚至排除與總統副總統還有立法委員選舉同日執行的公投請問我們主委你有這樣的理由還有設計的邏輯是什麼為何不能一併同日選舉呢\n跟委員報告因為貴黨團已經提出這樣一個公投案立法院即將進行也許他如果說通過院會的話他會交到中選會來辦理公民投票那中選會既然是公民投票的主辦機關在這個時間點上就這個特定的案件我實在是不宜來表示我個人的意見\n這點請委員能夠諒解這個是針對市啊為什麼有沒有認同有沒有認同說這樣子的一個公投會牽涉到我們中選會審查各方的意見所以我在這邊如果說我的意見是怎麼樣那對其他的委員是不尊重的\n這個是你的工作不是尊重的問題我問你的工作你覺得有沒有認同委員的指教因為在今年四月份我們卓院長也在答詢中也表示可對市\n公投開始試行因為對人的選舉比較複雜比較高但是這番話其實就反映什麼行政院長並不否定不在籍投票的可能性既然是對試公投可以規劃請問全國性選舉就是直接\n这选集就是完全做不到吗我们认为不再集投票是找这不是技术的问题也不是制度不行而是政府与中选会根本没有积极要做这件事情所以我们台湾民众党才提出转移投票的制度\n也多次向我們中選會溝通也建議當時中選會說改口說什麼問題在於民眾信任度不足現在你又說不是你不方便講所以說中選會是我曾經對這一項的制度你做過\n民眾的信任度調查嗎還是你自己說的所以是否具體的資料可以提供嗎還是說根本就是我們行政太多的藉口而已呢\n因為跟我們一貫的立場是一致的就是說對市的不在籍投票也就是公民投票的不在籍投票尤其是從移轉投票開始這個一向是中選會跟這個\n內政部一向的這個意見我們甚至於具體的行動就是全國性公民投票不在籍投票法的草案已經二度送到立法院來所以你是支持我們啊前委員支持你要支持我們的這個不在籍投票的法案委員支持我們的這個因為他已經在立法院了嘛就是\n在立法院你也是要表態支持還是不支持或者你調查有沒有調查的具體的資料委員所說的這個不在籍投票的這個公民投票我現在不能講支持不支持因為我要審議啊對啊你審議你支持就會這個就是大家就是\n我們現在根據我們調查嘛 大家歡喜嘛 因為在20歲到29歲的 我們全國有七成支持移轉投票 還有年輕人支持最高了所以呢 我們在地工作啊 或者是離鄉的打拼的年輕人他們強烈的就是說 投票的需求 但是因為\n阿姨这些工作读书啊这些所以呢我们也很清楚认知说制度是便利性结果我们政府就是就是一直在理由一堆就是不行动所以最照顾年轻人的\n賴總統的政見就形成強烈的落差所以我們再來再問你的就是關於你的資料裡面有在報告目前在處理搜尋人請求設置投票所的行政輸送請問目前對於在監所的涉及\n符合投票的資格收行人各監守的做法又為何中選會是否掌握這個人數還有在2023年10月台北高等行政法院的裁定\n選務機構應該在台北監獄所設置投票所還有請問我們中小會你採取哪一些的措施所以未來在不採取投票的制度的推行的時候在受益人的時候他們投票的保障你有考慮嗎是說你有研議關於這個法律的行政配套嗎有嗎\n關於授權人的投票權的保障這個在理論上我們也是支持的但是在選舉的實務以及監所的戒護實際的狀況底下的確有一些困難\n就是因為有困難所以從去年從去年開始的這個個案的這個訴訟到目前為止那司法機關都支持我們的立場\n我們再重申我們再次移轉投票最是最直接的還有說我們有最具名義的基本就是不在一起投票的方式同是選舉當天\n人在台灣,在台灣,所以本人親自投票就能讓就是外地的人,就學的人民眾就是不用單車勞頓所以這偏鄉的人也可以在這樣子的一個具有意義所以我們的民眾黨主張,一貫的主張方向就呼應我們中選會,不要再用行政的困難的藉口\n也不要做完成就是我們不再舉公投的制度所以我們是應該就提出說我們盡快提出就是涵蓋總統副總統立委啊這個選舉完整的版本這個才是\n對選民還有對我們民主的基本的交代這個才是我們想要的我也對不起如果是這麼強烈的主張的話直接提案可能會比公民投票要快一點我們已經都提了直接提法律案但是你們都沒有立法權是在立法院裡面\n立法權在立法院裡面我們提案也是大家同意三方溝通如果不用溝通的話就直接提了嘛叫你們來報告幹嘛呢如果要講效率的話其實是直接提案立法會比公民投票要快\n我們要的是我們民意剛才跟你講的強調我們是要我們立法院我們是我們要行政公立你們有沒有依法行政對不對我們是民意的聲音要反映是我們要跟政府共同也是要民意共同不是說我們要提法案\n要提法案也是民意需要不是我們自己說的算也不是你說的算你不是說你不是你說的算但是你有權利你有要做的義務要回答不是一直在說別人還是怎麼樣這是你的義務啊再來再問了這個說你就行政中立你都是說沒有出一個\n一個真正的去做了但是現在是我們民間的我們人民作為一個人民做主的志工團他們這個組織目前有向中選會提出法律覆轍的公投有四個案其中一個公投案是在今年2月7號就提出了\n依據公投法第10條第3項主管機關需要在60日內審核完畢但是認定是否有這樣子的規定還有\n通知補正但是這個組織認為他在中選會提出由中選會提出的4月23日聽證距離2月7號的提案日已經超過76日請問主委這樣子是否\n就違背公投案第十條第三項的六十天內的規定中選會是否認為公開聽證不屬於六十天審核的程序的一部分如果是 你的意志如何那是你專科的嗎 這樣回答可以嘛 對不對\n我請我們同仁回答不是你專科你當主委不是你專科都問別人包委員有關這個提案60天審核如果有聽證的話是不包括在內的那我們這幾個案子都是在60天內提委員會來這個審核那是因為委員會議有決議說要繼續辦理聽證\n所以說六十天內都是這個規定嘛但是現在是召開聽證會就是屬於這個程序嗎如果是你預計如何呢如果是這樣子的話通知完了法案先是就是影響人民公投案的權利嘛\n但是是否影響這樣子的進行還有時程但是公投審查中中選會對某一些提案的理由書行政的嚴格就是議員的審查但是要補正或者返回這樣子的話我們主委這邊我們的中選會這邊審查提案時不同人提案提出的公投所以說是政治立場嗎有涉及政治立場還是比方說我們公投立場的執政黨\n立場相同的話你就可以採取意氣審查的態度如何消除不同提案人審查的標準有這樣子的不信任感因為你是規定60天但是你在70天76天內你才有這樣子的召開聽證所以說的規定如何\n阿你預計什麼 你要預計什麼 你這樣這麼做嘛你叫別人預計60天內 阿你自己沒有預計60天內那叫這些公民團體他們如何法律規定的審核60天不包含經證程序的進行\n所以說就不包含所以如果這樣子的話他們在補正的時間60天內就是不包含所以他們就是在60天外他們就是管理公證後再來補正是嗎就是提案跟補正以後的審核都是法律規定都是60天聽證程序\n的進行是不包含在這60天內不包含但是你的補正的時候你補正不再包含這樣子的話你就超過時間來去辦公對不對你開這個聽證會你超過時間了你補正的是在60天內啊你自己開的又再超過這個60天內你叫人家要怎麼報啊\n這樣子就是因為這樣子他們才會在再來跟申訴嗎如果不是這樣子的話他們不會去申訴不會去說依據法律但是你們的聽證會就是在法律的60天內所以他們才會這個要說明讓這些民團他們才覺得說我們是怎麼去規定的你依據哪裡的這樣子大家\n才會所以我希望這個部分你提出一個真正的說明所以我們希望就是我們的選舉的公投制度要有公信力來自中選會是否依法行政保障人民直接民權的行使如果主管機構是連就是\n機構的連法都不能遵守 人民如何信任 我們是中立的所以專業的選舉機構 台灣的民主如何進步所以目前我們中選委應該會說不是只有針對罷免除了罷免 我們中選委還有其他的業務不管剛剛我提出的移轉投票還是收行人的投票的權利又是公投案的審查日期多希望我們主委有\n書面的你現在因為時間的關係主席不好意思但是我們希望我們主委這邊要有改善還有說盡快就是符合很多工作我們沒有違反法律規定的時程所以我希望你就是要讓這些民團他們申請的結德說你超過這個時間但是他的補件時間在60天你超過來去辦卷我拜託委員能夠轉達\n不是在六十天內我拜託委員能夠轉達這個民團好好珍惜這個聽證的機會因為那是對他們有幫助的當然啊當然是能珍惜是我們希望說你在規定內讓他們補件如果他們你放寬這樣子他們就不是在六十天內補證了好 那個請中選會補充好不好好 謝謝麥議員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.674 --> 00:05.558\n主席好有請主委李信鴻主委有請你好\n\n00:13.120 --> 00:39.311\n主委好台灣討論不在籍投票的制度已經超過20年了身為民主自豪的國家我們卻遲遲為依法在法治的層面建立完善的制度這無疑是民主發展的一大缺口不在籍投票的制度是保障人民投票權\n\n00:41.052 --> 00:55.002\n擴大政治的參與還有深化民主重要的工具國際上包含美國、日本、韓國等許多國家的民主國家早已經實施多年台灣完全可以參考還有實踐而我們行政院目前也提出全國性公投公民投票不在籍投票的法案、草案投票法的草案\n\n01:09.852 --> 01:12.293\n適用範圍限於說公民投票甚至排除與總統副總統還有立法委員選舉同日執行的公投請問我們主委你有這樣的理由還有設計的邏輯是什麼為何不能一併同日選舉呢\n\n01:34.850 --> 02:02.495\n跟委員報告因為貴黨團已經提出這樣一個公投案立法院即將進行也許他如果說通過院會的話他會交到中選會來辦理公民投票那中選會既然是公民投票的主辦機關在這個時間點上就這個特定的案件我實在是不宜來表示我個人的意見\n\n02:03.575 --> 02:05.536\n這點請委員能夠諒解這個是針對市啊為什麼有沒有認同有沒有認同說這樣子的一個公投會牽涉到我們中選會審查各方的意見所以我在這邊如果說我的意見是怎麼樣那對其他的委員是不尊重的\n\n02:27.444 --> 02:40.099\n這個是你的工作不是尊重的問題我問你的工作你覺得有沒有認同委員的指教因為在今年四月份我們卓院長也在答詢中也表示可對市\n\n02:43.123 --> 02:47.084\n公投開始試行因為對人的選舉比較複雜比較高但是這番話其實就反映什麼行政院長並不否定不在籍投票的可能性既然是對試公投可以規劃請問全國性選舉就是直接\n\n03:05.431 --> 03:26.751\n这选集就是完全做不到吗我们认为不再集投票是找这不是技术的问题也不是制度不行而是政府与中选会根本没有积极要做这件事情所以我们台湾民众党才提出转移投票的制度\n\n03:27.552 --> 03:31.216\n也多次向我們中選會溝通也建議當時中選會說改口說什麼問題在於民眾信任度不足現在你又說不是你不方便講所以說中選會是我曾經對這一項的制度你做過\n\n03:47.975 --> 03:51.181\n民眾的信任度調查嗎還是你自己說的所以是否具體的資料可以提供嗎還是說根本就是我們行政太多的藉口而已呢\n\n04:06.939 --> 04:21.823\n因為跟我們一貫的立場是一致的就是說對市的不在籍投票也就是公民投票的不在籍投票尤其是從移轉投票開始這個一向是中選會跟這個\n\n04:24.344 --> 04:38.053\n內政部一向的這個意見我們甚至於具體的行動就是全國性公民投票不在籍投票法的草案已經二度送到立法院來所以你是支持我們啊前委員支持你要支持我們的這個不在籍投票的法案委員支持我們的這個因為他已經在立法院了嘛就是\n\n04:47.359 --> 05:05.197\n在立法院你也是要表態支持還是不支持或者你調查有沒有調查的具體的資料委員所說的這個不在籍投票的這個公民投票我現在不能講支持不支持因為我要審議啊對啊你審議你支持就會這個就是大家就是\n\n05:09.028 --> 05:12.690\n我們現在根據我們調查嘛大家歡喜嘛因為在20歲到29歲的我們全國有七成支持移轉投票還有年輕人支持最高了所以呢我們在地工作啊或者是離鄉的打拼的年輕人他們強烈的就是說投票的需求但是因為\n\n05:34.163 --> 05:50.141\n阿姨这些工作读书啊这些所以呢我们也很清楚认知说制度是便利性结果我们政府就是就是一直在理由一堆就是不行动所以最照顾年轻人的\n\n05:51.483 --> 06:13.843\n賴總統的政見就形成強烈的落差所以我們再來再問你的就是關於你的資料裡面有在報告目前在處理搜尋人請求設置投票所的行政輸送請問目前對於在監所的涉及\n\n06:14.443 --> 06:21.573\n符合投票的資格收行人各監守的做法又為何中選會是否掌握這個人數還有在2023年10月台北高等行政法院的裁定\n\n06:33.739 --> 06:57.470\n選務機構應該在台北監獄所設置投票所還有請問我們中小會你採取哪一些的措施所以未來在不採取投票的制度的推行的時候在受益人的時候他們投票的保障你有考慮嗎是說你有研議關於這個法律的行政配套嗎有嗎\n\n07:03.257 --> 07:20.646\n關於授權人的投票權的保障這個在理論上我們也是支持的但是在選舉的實務以及監所的戒護實際的狀況底下的確有一些困難\n\n07:21.707 --> 07:24.789\n就是因為有困難所以從去年從去年開始的這個個案的這個訴訟到目前為止那司法機關都支持我們的立場\n\n07:41.589 --> 07:44.912\n我們再重申我們再次移轉投票最是最直接的還有說我們有最具名義的基本就是不在一起投票的方式同是選舉當天\n\n07:57.961 --> 08:01.264\n人在台灣,在台灣,所以本人親自投票就能讓就是外地的人,就學的人民眾就是不用單車勞頓所以這偏鄉的人也可以在這樣子的一個具有意義所以我們的民眾黨主張,一貫的主張方向就呼應我們中選會,不要再用行政的困難的藉口\n\n08:22.182 --> 08:28.972\n也不要做完成就是我們不再舉公投的制度所以我們是應該就提出說我們盡快提出就是涵蓋總統副總統立委啊這個選舉完整的版本這個才是\n\n08:39.467 --> 08:54.258\n對選民還有對我們民主的基本的交代這個才是我們想要的我也對不起如果是這麼強烈的主張的話直接提案可能會比公民投票要快一點我們已經都提了直接提法律案但是你們都沒有立法權是在立法院裡面\n\n09:04.150 --> 09:18.919\n立法權在立法院裡面我們提案也是大家同意三方溝通如果不用溝通的話就直接提了嘛叫你們來報告幹嘛呢如果要講效率的話其實是直接提案立法會比公民投票要快\n\n09:19.659 --> 09:22.480\n我們要的是我們民意剛才跟你講的強調我們是要我們立法院我們是我們要行政公立你們有沒有依法行政對不對我們是民意的聲音要反映是我們要跟政府共同也是要民意共同不是說我們要提法案\n\n09:43.667 --> 09:50.913\n要提法案也是民意需要不是我們自己說的算也不是你說的算你不是說你不是你說的算但是你有權利你有要做的義務要回答不是一直在說別人還是怎麼樣這是你的義務啊再來再問了這個說你就行政中立你都是說沒有出一個\n\n10:08.069 --> 10:10.972\n一個真正的去做了但是現在是我們民間的我們人民作為一個人民做主的志工團他們這個組織目前有向中選會提出法律覆轍的公投有四個案其中一個公投案是在今年2月7號就提出了\n\n10:32.908 --> 10:43.982\n依據公投法第10條第3項主管機關需要在60日內審核完畢但是認定是否有這樣子的規定還有\n\n10:46.414 --> 10:49.896\n通知補正但是這個組織認為他在中選會提出由中選會提出的4月23日聽證距離2月7號的提案日已經超過76日請問主委這樣子是否\n\n11:07.286 --> 11:25.657\n就違背公投案第十條第三項的六十天內的規定中選會是否認為公開聽證不屬於六十天審核的程序的一部分如果是你的意志如何那是你專科的嗎這樣回答可以嘛對不對\n\n11:27.339 --> 11:47.231\n我請我們同仁回答不是你專科你當主委不是你專科都問別人包委員有關這個提案60天審核如果有聽證的話是不包括在內的那我們這幾個案子都是在60天內提委員會來這個審核那是因為委員會議有決議說要繼續辦理聽證\n\n11:50.493 --> 11:53.875\n所以說六十天內都是這個規定嘛但是現在是召開聽證會就是屬於這個程序嗎如果是你預計如何呢如果是這樣子的話通知完了法案先是就是影響人民公投案的權利嘛\n\n12:09.443 --> 12:37.196\n但是是否影響這樣子的進行還有時程但是公投審查中中選會對某一些提案的理由書行政的嚴格就是議員的審查但是要補正或者返回這樣子的話我們主委這邊我們的中選會這邊審查提案時不同人提案提出的公投所以說是政治立場嗎有涉及政治立場還是比方說我們公投立場的執政黨\n\n12:38.917 --> 12:59.707\n立場相同的話你就可以採取意氣審查的態度如何消除不同提案人審查的標準有這樣子的不信任感因為你是規定60天但是你在70天76天內你才有這樣子的召開聽證所以說的規定如何\n\n13:02.722 --> 13:07.808\n阿你預計什麼你要預計什麼你這樣這麼做嘛你叫別人預計60天內阿你自己沒有預計60天內那叫這些公民團體他們如何法律規定的審核60天不包含經證程序的進行\n\n13:21.903 --> 13:25.625\n所以說就不包含所以如果這樣子的話他們在補正的時間60天內就是不包含所以他們就是在60天外他們就是管理公證後再來補正是嗎就是提案跟補正以後的審核都是法律規定都是60天聽證程序\n\n13:43.837 --> 13:53.161\n的進行是不包含在這60天內不包含但是你的補正的時候你補正不再包含這樣子的話你就超過時間來去辦公對不對你開這個聽證會你超過時間了你補正的是在60天內啊你自己開的又再超過這個60天內你叫人家要怎麼報啊\n\n14:06.069 --> 14:10.131\n這樣子就是因為這樣子他們才會在再來跟申訴嗎如果不是這樣子的話他們不會去申訴不會去說依據法律但是你們的聽證會就是在法律的60天內所以他們才會這個要說明讓這些民團他們才覺得說我們是怎麼去規定的你依據哪裡的這樣子大家\n\n14:32.661 --> 14:50.920\n才會所以我希望這個部分你提出一個真正的說明所以我們希望就是我們的選舉的公投制度要有公信力來自中選會是否依法行政保障人民直接民權的行使如果主管機構是連就是\n\n14:54.923 --> 15:02.505\n機構的連法都不能遵守人民如何信任我們是中立的所以專業的選舉機構台灣的民主如何進步所以目前我們中選委應該會說不是只有針對罷免除了罷免我們中選委還有其他的業務不管剛剛我提出的移轉投票還是收行人的投票的權利又是公投案的審查日期多希望我們主委有\n\n15:24.652 --> 15:29.654\n書面的你現在因為時間的關係主席不好意思但是我們希望我們主委這邊要有改善還有說盡快就是符合很多工作我們沒有違反法律規定的時程所以我希望你就是要讓這些民團他們申請的結德說你超過這個時間但是他的補件時間在60天你超過來去辦卷我拜託委員能夠轉達\n\n15:51.260 --> 15:57.425\n不是在六十天內我拜託委員能夠轉達這個民團好好珍惜這個聽證的機會因為那是對他們有幫助的當然啊當然是能珍惜是我們希望說你在規定內讓他們補件如果他們你放寬這樣子他們就不是在六十天內補證了好那個請中選會補充好不好好謝謝麥議員\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.674,"end":5.558,"text":"主席好 有請主委李信鴻主委有請你好"},{"start":13.12,"end":39.311,"text":"主委好 台灣討論不在籍投票的制度已經超過20年了身為民主自豪的國家我們卻遲遲為依法在法治的層面建立完善的制度這無疑是民主發展的一大缺口不在籍投票的制度是保障人民投票權"},{"start":41.052,"end":55.002,"text":"擴大政治的參與還有深化民主重要的工具國際上包含美國、日本、韓國等許多國家的民主國家早已經實施多年台灣完全可以參考還有實踐而我們行政院目前也提出全國性公投公民投票不在籍投票的法案、草案投票法的草案"},{"start":69.852,"end":72.293,"text":"適用範圍限於說公民投票甚至排除與總統副總統還有立法委員選舉同日執行的公投請問我們主委你有這樣的理由還有設計的邏輯是什麼為何不能一併同日選舉呢"},{"start":94.85,"end":122.495,"text":"跟委員報告因為貴黨團已經提出這樣一個公投案立法院即將進行也許他如果說通過院會的話他會交到中選會來辦理公民投票那中選會既然是公民投票的主辦機關在這個時間點上就這個特定的案件我實在是不宜來表示我個人的意見"},{"start":123.575,"end":125.536,"text":"這點請委員能夠諒解這個是針對市啊為什麼有沒有認同有沒有認同說這樣子的一個公投會牽涉到我們中選會審查各方的意見所以我在這邊如果說我的意見是怎麼樣那對其他的委員是不尊重的"},{"start":147.444,"end":160.099,"text":"這個是你的工作不是尊重的問題我問你的工作你覺得有沒有認同委員的指教因為在今年四月份我們卓院長也在答詢中也表示可對市"},{"start":163.123,"end":167.084,"text":"公投開始試行因為對人的選舉比較複雜比較高但是這番話其實就反映什麼行政院長並不否定不在籍投票的可能性既然是對試公投可以規劃請問全國性選舉就是直接"},{"start":185.431,"end":206.751,"text":"这选集就是完全做不到吗我们认为不再集投票是找这不是技术的问题也不是制度不行而是政府与中选会根本没有积极要做这件事情所以我们台湾民众党才提出转移投票的制度"},{"start":207.552,"end":211.216,"text":"也多次向我們中選會溝通也建議當時中選會說改口說什麼問題在於民眾信任度不足現在你又說不是你不方便講所以說中選會是我曾經對這一項的制度你做過"},{"start":227.975,"end":231.181,"text":"民眾的信任度調查嗎還是你自己說的所以是否具體的資料可以提供嗎還是說根本就是我們行政太多的藉口而已呢"},{"start":246.939,"end":261.823,"text":"因為跟我們一貫的立場是一致的就是說對市的不在籍投票也就是公民投票的不在籍投票尤其是從移轉投票開始這個一向是中選會跟這個"},{"start":264.344,"end":278.053,"text":"內政部一向的這個意見我們甚至於具體的行動就是全國性公民投票不在籍投票法的草案已經二度送到立法院來所以你是支持我們啊前委員支持你要支持我們的這個不在籍投票的法案委員支持我們的這個因為他已經在立法院了嘛就是"},{"start":287.359,"end":305.197,"text":"在立法院你也是要表態支持還是不支持或者你調查有沒有調查的具體的資料委員所說的這個不在籍投票的這個公民投票我現在不能講支持不支持因為我要審議啊對啊你審議你支持就會這個就是大家就是"},{"start":309.028,"end":312.69,"text":"我們現在根據我們調查嘛 大家歡喜嘛 因為在20歲到29歲的 我們全國有七成支持移轉投票 還有年輕人支持最高了所以呢 我們在地工作啊 或者是離鄉的打拼的年輕人他們強烈的就是說 投票的需求 但是因為"},{"start":334.163,"end":350.141,"text":"阿姨这些工作读书啊这些所以呢我们也很清楚认知说制度是便利性结果我们政府就是就是一直在理由一堆就是不行动所以最照顾年轻人的"},{"start":351.483,"end":373.843,"text":"賴總統的政見就形成強烈的落差所以我們再來再問你的就是關於你的資料裡面有在報告目前在處理搜尋人請求設置投票所的行政輸送請問目前對於在監所的涉及"},{"start":374.443,"end":381.573,"text":"符合投票的資格收行人各監守的做法又為何中選會是否掌握這個人數還有在2023年10月台北高等行政法院的裁定"},{"start":393.739,"end":417.47,"text":"選務機構應該在台北監獄所設置投票所還有請問我們中小會你採取哪一些的措施所以未來在不採取投票的制度的推行的時候在受益人的時候他們投票的保障你有考慮嗎是說你有研議關於這個法律的行政配套嗎有嗎"},{"start":423.257,"end":440.646,"text":"關於授權人的投票權的保障這個在理論上我們也是支持的但是在選舉的實務以及監所的戒護實際的狀況底下的確有一些困難"},{"start":441.707,"end":444.789,"text":"就是因為有困難所以從去年從去年開始的這個個案的這個訴訟到目前為止那司法機關都支持我們的立場"},{"start":461.589,"end":464.912,"text":"我們再重申我們再次移轉投票最是最直接的還有說我們有最具名義的基本就是不在一起投票的方式同是選舉當天"},{"start":477.961,"end":481.264,"text":"人在台灣,在台灣,所以本人親自投票就能讓就是外地的人,就學的人民眾就是不用單車勞頓所以這偏鄉的人也可以在這樣子的一個具有意義所以我們的民眾黨主張,一貫的主張方向就呼應我們中選會,不要再用行政的困難的藉口"},{"start":502.182,"end":508.972,"text":"也不要做完成就是我們不再舉公投的制度所以我們是應該就提出說我們盡快提出就是涵蓋總統副總統立委啊這個選舉完整的版本這個才是"},{"start":519.467,"end":534.258,"text":"對選民還有對我們民主的基本的交代這個才是我們想要的我也對不起如果是這麼強烈的主張的話直接提案可能會比公民投票要快一點我們已經都提了直接提法律案但是你們都沒有立法權是在立法院裡面"},{"start":544.15,"end":558.919,"text":"立法權在立法院裡面我們提案也是大家同意三方溝通如果不用溝通的話就直接提了嘛叫你們來報告幹嘛呢如果要講效率的話其實是直接提案立法會比公民投票要快"},{"start":559.659,"end":562.48,"text":"我們要的是我們民意剛才跟你講的強調我們是要我們立法院我們是我們要行政公立你們有沒有依法行政對不對我們是民意的聲音要反映是我們要跟政府共同也是要民意共同不是說我們要提法案"},{"start":583.667,"end":590.913,"text":"要提法案也是民意需要不是我們自己說的算也不是你說的算你不是說你不是你說的算但是你有權利你有要做的義務要回答不是一直在說別人還是怎麼樣這是你的義務啊再來再問了這個說你就行政中立你都是說沒有出一個"},{"start":608.069,"end":610.972,"text":"一個真正的去做了但是現在是我們民間的我們人民作為一個人民做主的志工團他們這個組織目前有向中選會提出法律覆轍的公投有四個案其中一個公投案是在今年2月7號就提出了"},{"start":632.908,"end":643.982,"text":"依據公投法第10條第3項主管機關需要在60日內審核完畢但是認定是否有這樣子的規定還有"},{"start":646.414,"end":649.896,"text":"通知補正但是這個組織認為他在中選會提出由中選會提出的4月23日聽證距離2月7號的提案日已經超過76日請問主委這樣子是否"},{"start":667.286,"end":685.657,"text":"就違背公投案第十條第三項的六十天內的規定中選會是否認為公開聽證不屬於六十天審核的程序的一部分如果是 你的意志如何那是你專科的嗎 這樣回答可以嘛 對不對"},{"start":687.339,"end":707.231,"text":"我請我們同仁回答不是你專科你當主委不是你專科都問別人包委員有關這個提案60天審核如果有聽證的話是不包括在內的那我們這幾個案子都是在60天內提委員會來這個審核那是因為委員會議有決議說要繼續辦理聽證"},{"start":710.493,"end":713.875,"text":"所以說六十天內都是這個規定嘛但是現在是召開聽證會就是屬於這個程序嗎如果是你預計如何呢如果是這樣子的話通知完了法案先是就是影響人民公投案的權利嘛"},{"start":729.443,"end":757.196,"text":"但是是否影響這樣子的進行還有時程但是公投審查中中選會對某一些提案的理由書行政的嚴格就是議員的審查但是要補正或者返回這樣子的話我們主委這邊我們的中選會這邊審查提案時不同人提案提出的公投所以說是政治立場嗎有涉及政治立場還是比方說我們公投立場的執政黨"},{"start":758.917,"end":779.707,"text":"立場相同的話你就可以採取意氣審查的態度如何消除不同提案人審查的標準有這樣子的不信任感因為你是規定60天但是你在70天76天內你才有這樣子的召開聽證所以說的規定如何"},{"start":782.722,"end":787.808,"text":"阿你預計什麼 你要預計什麼 你這樣這麼做嘛你叫別人預計60天內 阿你自己沒有預計60天內那叫這些公民團體他們如何法律規定的審核60天不包含經證程序的進行"},{"start":801.903,"end":805.625,"text":"所以說就不包含所以如果這樣子的話他們在補正的時間60天內就是不包含所以他們就是在60天外他們就是管理公證後再來補正是嗎就是提案跟補正以後的審核都是法律規定都是60天聽證程序"},{"start":823.837,"end":833.161,"text":"的進行是不包含在這60天內不包含但是你的補正的時候你補正不再包含這樣子的話你就超過時間來去辦公對不對你開這個聽證會你超過時間了你補正的是在60天內啊你自己開的又再超過這個60天內你叫人家要怎麼報啊"},{"start":846.069,"end":850.131,"text":"這樣子就是因為這樣子他們才會在再來跟申訴嗎如果不是這樣子的話他們不會去申訴不會去說依據法律但是你們的聽證會就是在法律的60天內所以他們才會這個要說明讓這些民團他們才覺得說我們是怎麼去規定的你依據哪裡的這樣子大家"},{"start":872.661,"end":890.92,"text":"才會所以我希望這個部分你提出一個真正的說明所以我們希望就是我們的選舉的公投制度要有公信力來自中選會是否依法行政保障人民直接民權的行使如果主管機構是連就是"},{"start":894.923,"end":902.505,"text":"機構的連法都不能遵守 人民如何信任 我們是中立的所以專業的選舉機構 台灣的民主如何進步所以目前我們中選委應該會說不是只有針對罷免除了罷免 我們中選委還有其他的業務不管剛剛我提出的移轉投票還是收行人的投票的權利又是公投案的審查日期多希望我們主委有"},{"start":924.652,"end":929.654,"text":"書面的你現在因為時間的關係主席不好意思但是我們希望我們主委這邊要有改善還有說盡快就是符合很多工作我們沒有違反法律規定的時程所以我希望你就是要讓這些民團他們申請的結德說你超過這個時間但是他的補件時間在60天你超過來去辦卷我拜託委員能夠轉達"},{"start":951.26,"end":957.425,"text":"不是在六十天內我拜託委員能夠轉達這個民團好好珍惜這個聽證的機會因為那是對他們有幫助的當然啊當然是能珍惜是我們希望說你在規定內讓他們補件如果他們你放寬這樣子他們就不是在六十天內補證了好 那個請中選會補充好不好好 謝謝麥議員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":262,"blocks":[["麥委員玉珍：（9時45分）主席好。有請主委。"],["主席：李進勇主委有請。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員好。"],["麥委員玉珍：主委好。臺灣討論不在籍投票制度已經超過20年，身為民主自豪的國家，我們卻遲遲未依法在法制層面建立完善的制度，這無疑是民主發展的一大缺口。不在籍投票制度是保障人民投票權，擴大政治的參與，還有深化民主重要的工具，國際上包含美國、日本、韓國等許多民主國家，早已經實施多年，臺灣完全可以參考還有實踐，而行政院目前也提出全國性公民投票不在籍投票法草案，但草案適用範圍卻限於公民投票，甚至排除總統副總統還有立法委員選舉同日舉行。請問主委，草案規定的理由還有設計的邏輯是什麼？為何不能一併同日選舉呢？"],["李主任委員進勇：跟委員報告，因為貴黨團已經提出這樣一個公投案，立法院即將進行討論，如果院會通過的話，會交到中選會來辦理公民投票。中選會既然是公民投票的主辦機關，在這個時間點上就這個特定的案件，我實在是不宜來表示我個人的意見，這一點請委員能夠諒解。"],["麥委員玉珍：這個是針對事啊，為什麼？有沒有認同……"],["李主任委員進勇：這會牽涉到我們……"],["麥委員玉珍：這樣子的一個公投……"],["李主任委員進勇：會牽涉到我們中選會審查各方的意見，我在這邊如果說我的意見是怎麼樣，對其他的委員是不尊重的，請您諒解，請您諒解。"],["麥委員玉珍：這個是你的工作，不是尊重的問題，我是問你的工作，你覺得有沒有認同？"],["李主任委員進勇：委員的指教……"],["麥委員玉珍：在今年4月份，卓院長也在答詢中表示，可由對事的公投開始試行，因為對人的選舉比較複雜、比較高，但是這番話其實就反映什麼？行政院長並不否定不在籍投票的可能性。既然對事的公投可以規劃，請問全國性選舉就完全做不到嗎？我們認為不在籍投票並不是卡在技術問題，也不是制度不行，而是政府與中選會根本沒有積極要做這件事情，所以我們台灣民眾黨才提出轉移投票的制度，也多次向中選會溝通，甚至提出建議。當時中選會改口說什麼問題在於民眾信任度不足，現在你又說不是，你不方便講，所以中選會是……我曾經問過，對這項制度你們做過民眾的信任度調查嗎？還是你自己說的，所以有具體的資料可以提供嗎？還是說根本就是行政怠惰的藉口而已呢？這個你可以回答了吧、沒有政治立場了吧！是不是？"],["李主任委員進勇：有一點我可以回答，因為跟我們一貫的立場是一致的，就是說對事的不在籍投票，也就是公民投票的不在籍投票，尤其是從移轉投票開始，這個一向是中選會跟內政部的意見，我們甚至採取具體的行動，就是全國性公民投票不在籍投票法的草案已經二度送到立法院來，請委員支持。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以你是支持我們，是不是？"],["李主任委員進勇：請委員支持。"],["麥委員玉珍：你要支持我們所提不在籍投票的法案。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員可以支持我們的草案，因為它已經在立法院了，就是公民投票不在籍投票法……"],["麥委員玉珍：即使案子在立法院，你也是要表態支持還是不支持？或者你們有沒有具體的調查資料？如果有，請給我一份。"],["李主任委員進勇：不是，委員所說的不在籍投票的公民投票，我現在不能講支持、不支持，因為我要審議啊！"],["麥委員玉珍：對啊！你審議、你支持就會……大家就是……現在根據我們的調查，20歲到29歲中，全國有七成支持移轉投票，所以年輕人的支持度是最高的。可見在地工作或者是離鄉打拼的年輕人有強烈的投票需求，但是因為礙於要工作、讀書，我們很清楚認知到制度應該有便利性，結果政府一直理由一堆，就是不行動，所以跟最照顧年輕人的賴總統的政見形成強烈的落差！","我要再問你的就是，在你的報告裡有提到，目前在處理受刑人請求設置投票所的行政訴訟，請問對於在監所的設籍，符合投票資格的受刑人，各監所的作法為何？中選會是否掌握人數？2023年10月，臺北高等行政法院裁定，選務機構應該在臺北監所設置投票所，請問中選會採取哪些措施？未來不在籍投票制度推行的時候，受刑人投票的保障你有考慮嗎？你有研議相關的行政配套嗎？有嗎？還是一樣，就是在研議？"],["李主任委員進勇：關於這個……"],["麥委員玉珍：這是你報告的、你自己報告的。"],["李主任委員進勇：受刑人投票權的保障，在理論上我們也是支持的，但是在選舉的實務以及監所戒護實際的狀況底下的確有一些困難，就是因為有困難，所以從去年……"],["麥委員玉珍：有困難才要你提出解決方案！"],["李主任委員進勇：從去年開始……"],["麥委員玉珍：每個都困難、每個都沒辦法做，這樣還要中選會幹嘛？"],["李主任委員進勇：從去年開始的這個個案的訴訟，到目前為止司法機關都支持我們的立場。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，我們再重申，移轉投票是最直接的，還有我們有最具民意的基本……就是不在籍投票的方式，讓選舉當天只要人在臺灣，本人都可以親自去投票，如此外地的、就學的民眾不用舟車勞頓，偏鄉的人也可以在這樣子的一個具有意義……這是我們民眾黨一貫的主張，並呼籲中選會不要再以行政困難為藉口，要完成不在籍投票制度，並儘快提出涵蓋總統、副總統、立委選舉的完整版本，這個才是對選民、還有對民主的基本交代，這才是我們想要的。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員，對不起，如果是這麼強烈的主張的話，直接提案可能會比公民投票要快一點。"],["麥委員玉珍：我們已經都提了，現在是問你有沒有同意、有沒有說……"],["李主任委員進勇：直接提法律案。"],["麥委員玉珍：但是你們都沒有，所以現在……"],["李主任委員進勇：立法權是在立法院。"],["麥委員玉珍：立法權在立法院，我們提案也經大家同意，三方溝通，如果不用溝通的話就直接提了，叫你們來報告幹嘛呢？"],["李主任委員進勇：如果要講效率的話，其實直接提案立法會比公民投票要快，而且快很多。"],["麥委員玉珍：我們要的是民意！剛才也跟你強調要行政中立，你們有沒有依法行政，對不對？民意的聲音要反映，是我們要跟政府共同，也是要跟民意共同，不是說我們要提法案，要提法案也是民意需要，不是我們自己說了算，也不是你說了算，但是你有權力，你有要做的義務，不是一直在說別人還是怎麼樣，這是你的義務啊！"],["李主任委員進勇：我好心啦！"],["麥委員玉珍：再來是行政中立，我問你，你就是說不出一個真正的……現在民間有一個人民作主志工團，他們這個組織日前有向中選會提出法律複決的公投，有4個案，其中一個公投案在今年2月7號就提出了。依據公投法第十條第三項規定，主管機關需要在60日內審核完畢，並通知補正。但這個組織認為，中選會提出的4月23日聽證，距離2月7號的提案日已經超過76日，請問主委，這是否違背公投法第十條第三項60天內的規定？中選會是否認為開聽證不屬於60天審核程序的一部分？如果是，你的依據為何？這是你們負責的，應該可以回答，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：我請我們同仁回答。"],["麥委員玉珍：不是你負責的嗎？你當主委，不是你負責的嗎？還要問別人。"],["蔡處長金誥：報告委員，有關提案60天審核，如果有聽證的話是不包括在內的。這幾個案子都是在60天內提委員會來審核，因為委員會議有決議要繼續辦理聽證，因為它又……"],["麥委員玉珍：對啊！所以在60天內都符合這個規定，但召開聽證會也是屬於這個程序嗎？如果是，你預計如何？這樣子就是影響人民提出公投案的權利，甚至影響案子的進行還有時程。公投案審查中，中選會對某一些提案的理由書進行行政審查，也可以補正或者駁回。但中選會在審查提案時，針對不同提案人所提出的公投却有政治立場……比方說公投立場跟執政黨立場相同的話，就可以一起審查，這讓不同的提案人對審查標準有不信任感，因為規定是60天，却到76天才召開聽證，所以規定到底如何？你依據什麼這麼做？你叫別人在60天內完成，但你自己沒有在60天內完成，叫這些公民團體怎麼辦？"],["蔡處長金誥：法律規定的審核60天不包含聽證程序的進行。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以就不包含？所以……"],["蔡處長金誥：不包含聽證時間。"],["麥委員玉珍：如果這樣子的話，補正的時間也不包含在60天內？所以他們就是在60天外，他們等你聽證後再來補正，是嗎？"],["蔡處長金誥：就是提案跟補正以後的審核，法律規定都是60天……"],["麥委員玉珍：對啊！"],["蔡處長金誥：至於聽證程序的進行是不包含在這60天以內。"],["麥委員玉珍：但是補正不包含的話，就超過時間了，對不對？開聽證會的時間超過了。補正是在60天內，聽證是你自己開的，又超過60天內，你叫別人怎麼補？對吧？就是因為這樣子，他們才會來申訴！如果不是這樣子的話，他們不會提申訴，你們的聽證會就是要在法律規定的60天內，所以他們才會……這個要說明，讓這些民團知道你們是怎麼規定的，你是依據哪裡的，這樣子大家才會……所以我希望這部分你提出說明。","我們希望選舉和公投制度要有公信力，而中選會是否依法行政，保障人民直接民權的行使，如果主管機構都不能遵守法律，人民如何信任你們是中立的？沒有專業的選舉機構，臺灣的民主如何進步？目前中選會應該不是只針對罷免，除了罷免，中選會還有其他的業務。不管是我剛剛提出的移轉投票還是受刑人的投票權利，抑或公投案的審查日期，都希望主委提書面說明。現在因為時間的關係，主席，不好意思，但是我們希望主委這邊能有所改善，並儘快符合很多工作……"],["李主任委員進勇：我們沒有違反法律規定的時程。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以我希望你要讓這些民團在申請的時候就知道，補件時間就是60天……"],["李主任委員進勇：而且我建議也拜託委員能夠轉達……"],["麥委員玉珍：你們超過時間去辦聽證，而且補件的時間也不是60天……"],["主席：好，謝謝，請會後溝通，好不好？"],["李主任委員進勇：我拜託委員轉達民團，能夠好好珍惜聽證的機會，因為那是對他們有幫助的。"],["麥委員玉珍：當然啊！他們當然珍惜，但我們希望你在規定時間內讓他們補件；如果你放寬的話，這樣他們就不是在60天內補正了，謝謝。"],["主席：好，請中選會會後補充，好不好？謝謝麥玉珍委員。","下一位我們請張宏陸召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":194,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-17","speakers":["牛煦庭","王美惠","蘇巧慧","張智倫","麥玉珍","張宏陸","黃捷","許宇甄","李柏毅","賴士葆","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","高金素梅","翁曉玲","丁學忠"],"page_start":113,"meetingDate":["2025-05-07"],"gazette_id":"1144601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144601_00003"}}}