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\"我們可能後續我們跟那個各支會討論確認以後我們跟委員回報因為他後面的原因蠻複雜的這樣子因為我是比較擔心就是說因為他是監禮站那當監禮站有民眾會覺得說那是公家機關所以他給的一些訊息有些人就是覺得說啊好啦那既然有這個未違規了然後既然有一個這麼簡便的一個方式我可以直接線上交款那可能就被詐騙了啦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 419.233, \"end\": 419.573, \"score\": 0.686}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 419.573, \"end\": 419.693, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 419.693, \"end\": 419.873, \"score\": 0.654}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 419.873, \"end\": 420.294, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 420.294, \"end\": 420.554, \"score\": 0.67}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 420.554, \"end\": 420.774, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 420.774, \"end\": 421.174, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 421.174, \"end\": 421.314, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"支\", \"start\": 421.314, \"end\": 421.494, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": 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{\"start\": 443.823, \"end\": 468.056, \"text\": \"所以這部分的話我是希望說不論是這個我們的監理站或是說其他我們很多的公家機關我都很擔心都已經各自外洩了這個已經被這個詐團攻陷了那所以我們很多這個民眾的各自都外流那淪為被詐騙的潛在的對象那我覺得這部分要去查清楚你講那個發布什麼新聞那個都是事後的啦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 443.823, \"end\": 444.023, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 444.023, \"end\": 444.143, \"score\": 0.606}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 444.143, \"end\": 444.303, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 444.303, \"end\": 444.403, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 444.403, \"end\": 444.724, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 444.724, \"end\": 444.844, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 444.844, \"end\": 444.944, \"score\": 0.672}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 444.944, \"end\": 445.044, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 445.044, \"end\": 445.864, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 445.864, \"end\": 446.204, \"score\": 0.926}, 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{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 579.981, \"end\": 580.421, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 580.421, \"end\": 580.561, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"油\", \"start\": 580.561, \"end\": 580.701, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 580.701, \"end\": 580.961, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 580.961, \"end\": 580.981, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,095 --> 00:00:10,799\n謝謝主席我們請這個法務部的政部長麻煩部長\n\n2\n00:00:15,786 --> 00:00:45,066\n委員好來部長好辛苦了這個本席先請教那有一位政治人物他講這個與其去打壓罷免不如來好好的來打炸那你對這句話的看法怎麼樣謝謝委員那個打炸是非常非常重要的那這個罷免這個是因為腐蝕人民那個民主政治的儲值所以是非常重要而且你圍繞一個鼠鴨救一個被害人\n\n3\n00:00:45,686 --> 00:01:00,256\n那圍繞很多人這可能會影響很多的民主政治他我們用票選出來的這些的候選人那我想這個嚴重影響這個民主政治的因為我們是一個民主一個是一個透過選舉罷免讓我們人民的參政權\n\n4\n00:01:02,777 --> 00:01:21,121\n能夠落實這才是民主法治國家那委員剛剛講的說這樣的有些關心那個打仗當然我們打仗的確是很嚴重權勢很重而且我們在台灣我們不希望打仗成為全民之痛所以我們將心比心我們雖然沒有被騙但是因為我們的辦案人員能夠體系說這個詐騙這個是讓我們的社會的穩定\n\n5\n00:01:28,991 --> 00:01:44,672\n非常的嚴重所以我們是全力的打詐所以部長意思是說去查偽造連署的去查死人連署的跟打詐是一樣重要嗎都非常重要都一樣重要一個是侵蝕這個我們民主法制的基礎那另外詐騙呢死不安定嘛\n\n6\n00:01:46,074 --> 00:02:09,273\n每個人不管是你本身或是說你的親朋好友可能都有類似這個案件那我就來問你因為今天的題目有提到說這個聯合國毒品跟犯罪問題辦公室它有一個infractionpoint這個報告那早上有很多委員都問過那因為還有提到說是台灣那我先請問一下這份報告到底真實性如何\n\n7\n00:02:09,713 --> 00:02:25,754\n那跟他上面所提到不論是幫派或是說這個線上的博弈這個BG1BG2等等之類的你們有去了解這個整個情況是怎麼樣嗎那如果跟他所描述的不實的話有沒有管道去做澄清跟說明\n\n8\n00:02:26,598 --> 00:02:49,859\n那這部分的確說來自聯合國毒品及犯罪問題的一個辦公室下載的但這些報告有說明這份報告雖然是由員工跟專家編寫但內容沒有經過正式的編輯跟確認所以不代表這個辦公室的當然它不代表是另外一回事我是說它寫的這個東西有沒有符合現實的狀況\n\n9\n00:02:52,192 --> 00:03:18,632\n這個沒有符合現實的就是說它所寫描述的東西它這個都是跟台灣你們所了解的現實的是不是完全是不一樣的是不一樣的而且這裡面的話它是沒有政府關鍵文件所以這個一個立場雖然是有提到說什麼涉及到毒品那個詐欺什麼幫派的但是這裡面也沒有人名也沒有那個公司名所以我們也試圖去了解去注意當然我們一直持續在注意\n\n10\n00:03:21,354 --> 00:03:48,120\n所以就像哈索提到說有什麼這個線上博弈BG1BG2然後了解一些幫派等等你們據你們了解沒有像他這一個這個調查局我們也是請調查局有就一個了解嘛當然有些三合會的那一部分當然我也做一個法辦了嘛但也不是因為這份報告我們才去法辦而且我們一直持續在注意幫派那如果像部長所講就是說哈索裡面所這些報告的內容其實\n\n11\n00:03:52,282 --> 00:04:07,349\n那如果說這個是跟現狀不符的話有沒有管道去做澄清跟說明因為這個其實這個報告出來那不管怎麼樣因為他是掛一個聯合國的一個報告嘛一個毒品犯罪問題這個辦公室的一個報告有沒有管道去澄清跟去說明\n\n12\n00:04:08,129 --> 00:04:30,669\n目前台灣的狀況是怎麼樣我想我們在查證後我們再做一個澄清那我想如果有的話那我們當然要檢討不論是法務部調查局或是警政署要做檢討那如果沒有的話我認為還是要去做個說明因為這對於台灣的這個形象會有影響還把這個台灣跟這些東南亞一些國家掛在一起那好像說我們台灣的這些問題跟他們一樣有嚴重啊\n\n13\n00:04:32,284 --> 00:04:46,813\n而且他是掛一個POC這個是對我們非常不友善的這又是另外一個問題啦那另外我想請教一下那個我們這個馬市長你現在是這個哪吒中心的指揮官嘛那部長這個先請回\n\n14\n00:04:55,680 --> 00:05:13,799\n這個五月四號媒體有披露說這個詐團利用這個監理服務網的電子郵件然後說你這個民眾有交通違規預期的那附一個email給你然後點進去之後那其實就是一個釣魚的網站然後要收集你的個資那其實我在四月初的時候就收到澄清\n\n15\n00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:41,045\n就是說他有交通違規但是有交通違規呢他是3月20號他說他沒有做任何的繳款動作暫時在4月4號就收到詐騙的信件所以他高度懷疑啦那會不會說是我們的這個監理所其實也被我不知道是被入侵了被駭客入侵了還是說詐團就是說我們的監理所跟詐團之間是不是有某種程度的配合就是說民眾違規這件事情\n\n16\n00:05:43,083 --> 00:06:04,690\n然後呢他過沒多久他就收到一個一個詐騙的一個信件就是說啊你已經違規了那奇怪了那怎麼詐騙會知道這種違規的事情你們有沒有去了解我跟委員報告我們有收到我們有收到類似的案件那每一次我們收到類似案件基本上我們都會請當事的部會我們會列管而且去找清楚原因那就這個問題這個問題的背後當然一定是跟個資外協有關但是他的管道我們現在還不知道\n\n17\n00:06:11,912 --> 00:06:38,272\n因為對於這個監理單位的這個包括有停車費的問題也包括有剛剛委員提到罰單的問題那我們最近還有很多民眾接到就是醫院要領藥這樣的一個訊息其實我們現在都有在每一次接到這樣的類似的個案的時候我們都會對外發布新聞說明就是有這樣的個案請民眾要注意那當然是一個...這個真的是事後了啦我那時候你要去查\n\n18\n00:06:38,852 --> 00:06:58,172\n他就說那為什麼像監理單位或是說像醫院這些個資會外洩因為這些個資外洩就表示說這有可能是潛在的被詐騙的一些對象啊對所以這個部分跟委員報告我們會跟行政院各支處的籌備處來合作去處理這個問題那所以呢到現在還沒有找到原因在哪裡就對了\n\n19\n00:06:59,233 --> 00:07:22,623\n我們可能後續我們跟那個各支會討論確認以後我們跟委員回報因為他後面的原因蠻複雜的這樣子因為我是比較擔心就是說因為他是監禮站那當監禮站有民眾會覺得說那是公家機關所以他給的一些訊息有些人就是覺得說啊好啦那既然有這個未違規了然後既然有一個這麼簡便的一個方式我可以直接線上交款那可能就被詐騙了啦\n\n20\n00:07:23,823 --> 00:07:48,056\n所以這部分的話我是希望說不論是這個我們的監理站或是說其他我們很多的公家機關我都很擔心都已經各自外洩了這個已經被這個詐團攻陷了那所以我們很多這個民眾的各自都外流那淪為被詐騙的潛在的對象那我覺得這部分要去查清楚你講那個發布什麼新聞那個都是事後的啦\n\n21\n00:07:48,736 --> 00:08:04,255\n對委員這個部分個案能不能把資料給我們我們就直接來處理因為從個案可以追到很多的通案好啊沒問題啊我們每一次只要接到個案我們都會從個案去追通案好所以我這個個案會給你啦好那我不好意思我最後再請教一下這一個正部長齁這個簡單問一下不好意思這個齁\n\n22\n00:08:09,512 --> 00:08:34,870\n貴婦奶奶她這個逃亡七年吸金上億然後前幾天回來投案那吸金上億結果呢就兩百萬就交保那她的那個好像是她的公公吧好像之前也回來投案五十萬就交保那這個民眾會覺得說那你詐騙吸金上億然後你花個兩百萬就可以交保那後續這些錢也可能追查不回來啊\n\n23\n00:08:35,330 --> 00:08:50,912\n就民眾會覺得說那奇怪了那所以這個詐騙是一門好生意嗎我可以吸金上業人然後反正我交保就只有兩百萬那最後刑責也不知道怎麼樣啦那我就覺得說這方面的話對於民眾來講社會觀感是非常的不好啦\n\n24\n00:08:53,319 --> 00:09:22,011\n局長這個交保金是回來投案之後就給他交保兩百萬那檢察官給他限制出境出海給他做電子監控那我想是不是要羈押我想這個我也只能說我尊重沒有我是尊重啦我是講說整體的社會觀感我沒有去介入說這一個到底是兩百萬還是五百萬還是一千萬我不是指這個意思我的意思是說現在為什麼詐騙集團這麼犯呢原因之一就是說他很容易交保\n\n25\n00:09:22,631 --> 00:09:40,981\n然後交保金也很低然後呢刑責可能也不重那所以說會演變成是說那大家覺得說這個好像投報率很高我想委員的這個寶貴反映民眾的聲音我想陳判決他應該會聽得到好啦就反映一些民眾的聲音給你們啦好謝謝加油啦好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7095\t10799\t謝謝主席我們請這個法務部的政部長麻煩部長\n15786\t45066\t委員好來 部長好 辛苦了這個本席先請教那有一位政治人物他講這個與其去打壓罷免不如來好好的來打炸那你對這句話的看法怎麼樣謝謝委員那個打炸是非常非常重要的那這個罷免這個是因為腐蝕人民那個民主政治的儲值所以是非常重要而且你圍繞一個鼠鴨救一個被害人\n45686\t60256\t那圍繞很多人這可能會影響很多的民主政治他我們用票選出來的這些的候選人那我想這個嚴重影響這個民主政治的因為我們是一個民主一個是一個透過選舉罷免讓我們人民的參政權\n62777\t81121\t能夠落實這才是民主法治國家那委員剛剛講的說這樣的有些關心那個打仗當然我們打仗的確是很嚴重權勢很重而且我們在台灣我們不希望打仗成為全民之痛所以我們將心比心我們雖然沒有被騙但是因為我們的辦案人員能夠體系說這個詐騙這個是讓我們的社會的穩定\n88991\t104672\t非常的嚴重所以我們是全力的打詐所以部長意思是說去查偽造連署的去查死人連署的跟打詐是一樣重要嗎都非常重要都一樣重要一個是侵蝕這個我們民主法制的基礎那另外詐騙呢死不安定嘛\n106074\t129273\t每個人不管是你本身或是說你的親朋好友可能都有類似這個案件那我就來問你 因為今天的題目有提到說這個聯合國毒品跟犯罪問題辦公室它有一個infraction point這個報告那早上有很多委員都問過那因為還有提到說是台灣那我先請問一下這份報告到底真實性如何\n129713\t145754\t那跟他上面所提到不論是幫派或是說這個線上的博弈這個BG1 BG2等等之類的你們有去了解這個整個情況是怎麼樣嗎那如果跟他所描述的不實的話有沒有管道去做澄清跟說明\n146598\t169859\t那這部分的確說來自聯合國毒品及犯罪問題的一個辦公室下載的但這些報告有說明這份報告雖然是由員工跟專家編寫但內容沒有經過正式的編輯跟確認所以不代表這個辦公室的當然它不代表是另外一回事我是說它寫的這個東西有沒有符合現實的狀況\n172192\t198632\t這個沒有符合現實的就是說它所寫描述的東西它這個都是跟台灣你們所了解的現實的是不是完全是不一樣的是不一樣的而且這裡面的話它是沒有政府關鍵文件所以這個一個立場雖然是有提到說什麼涉及到毒品那個詐欺什麼幫派的但是這裡面也沒有人名也沒有那個公司名所以我們也試圖去了解去注意當然我們一直持續在注意\n201354\t228120\t所以就像哈索提到說有什麼這個線上博弈BG1 BG2然後了解一些幫派等等你們 據你們了解沒有像他這一個這個調查局我們也是請調查局有就一個了解嘛當然有些三合會的那一部分當然我也做一個法辦了嘛但也不是因為這份報告我們才去法辦而且我們一直持續在注意幫派那如果像部長所講就是說哈索裡面所這些報告的內容其實\n232282\t247349\t那如果說這個是跟現狀不符的話有沒有管道去做澄清跟說明因為這個其實這個報告出來那不管怎麼樣因為他是掛一個聯合國的一個報告嘛一個毒品犯罪問題這個辦公室的一個報告有沒有管道去澄清跟去說明\n248129\t270669\t目前台灣的狀況是怎麼樣我想我們在查證後我們再做一個澄清那我想如果有的話那我們當然要檢討不論是法務部調查局或是警政署要做檢討那如果沒有的話我認為還是要去做個說明因為這對於台灣的這個形象會有影響還把這個台灣跟這些東南亞一些國家掛在一起那好像說我們台灣的這些問題跟他們一樣有嚴重啊\n272284\t286813\t而且他是掛一個POC 這個是對我們非常不友善的這又是另外一個問題啦那另外我想請教一下 那個我們這個馬市長 你現在是這個哪吒中心的指揮官嘛那部長這個先請回\n295680\t313799\t這個五月四號媒體有披露說這個詐團利用這個監理服務網的電子郵件然後說你這個民眾有交通違規預期的那附一個email給你然後點進去之後那其實就是一個釣魚的網站然後要收集你的個資那其實我在四月初的時候就收到澄清\n314440\t341045\t就是說他有交通違規但是有交通違規呢他是3月20號他說他沒有做任何的繳款動作暫時在4月4號就收到詐騙的信件所以他高度懷疑啦那會不會說是我們的這個監理所其實也被我不知道是被入侵了被駭客入侵了還是說詐團就是說我們的監理所跟詐團之間是不是有某種程度的配合就是說民眾違規這件事情\n343083\t364690\t然後呢他過沒多久他就收到一個一個詐騙的一個信件就是說啊你已經違規了那奇怪了那怎麼詐騙會知道這種違規的事情你們有沒有去了解我跟委員報告我們有收到我們有收到類似的案件那每一次我們收到類似案件基本上我們都會請當事的部會我們會列管而且去找清楚原因那就這個問題這個問題的背後當然一定是跟個資外協有關但是他的管道我們現在還不知道\n371912\t398272\t因為對於這個監理單位的這個包括有停車費的問題也包括有剛剛委員提到罰單的問題那我們最近還有很多民眾接到就是醫院要領藥這樣的一個訊息其實我們現在都有在每一次接到這樣的類似的個案的時候我們都會對外發布新聞說明就是有這樣的個案請民眾要注意那當然是一個...這個真的是事後了啦我那時候你要去查\n398852\t418172\t他就說那為什麼像監理單位或是說像醫院這些個資會外洩因為這些個資外洩就表示說這有可能是潛在的被詐騙的一些對象啊對所以這個部分跟委員報告我們會跟行政院各支處的籌備處來合作去處理這個問題那所以呢到現在還沒有找到原因在哪裡就對了\n419233\t442623\t我們可能後續我們跟那個各支會討論確認以後我們跟委員回報因為他後面的原因蠻複雜的這樣子因為我是比較擔心就是說因為他是監禮站那當監禮站有民眾會覺得說那是公家機關所以他給的一些訊息有些人就是覺得說啊好啦那既然有這個未違規了然後既然有一個這麼簡便的一個方式我可以直接線上交款那可能就被詐騙了啦\n443823\t468056\t所以這部分的話我是希望說不論是這個我們的監理站或是說其他我們很多的公家機關我都很擔心都已經各自外洩了這個已經被這個詐團攻陷了那所以我們很多這個民眾的各自都外流那淪為被詐騙的潛在的對象那我覺得這部分要去查清楚你講那個發布什麼新聞那個都是事後的啦\n468736\t484255\t對委員這個部分個案能不能把資料給我們我們就直接來處理因為從個案可以追到很多的通案好啊沒問題啊我們每一次只要接到個案我們都會從個案去追通案好所以我這個個案會給你啦好那我不好意思我最後再請教一下這一個正部長齁這個簡單問一下不好意思這個齁\n489512\t514870\t貴婦奶奶她這個逃亡七年 吸金上億然後前幾天回來投案那吸金上億結果呢 就兩百萬就交保那她的那個 好像是她的公公吧好像之前也回來投案 五十萬就交保那這個民眾會覺得說 那你詐騙吸金上億然後你花個兩百萬就可以交保那後續這些錢也可能追查不回來啊\n515330\t530912\t就民眾會覺得說 那奇怪了 那所以這個詐騙是一門好生意嗎我可以吸金上業人 然後反正我交保就只有兩百萬那最後刑責 也不知道怎麼樣啦那我就覺得說 這方面的話 對於民眾來講社會觀感是非常的不好啦\n533319\t562011\t局長這個交保金是回來投案之後就給他交保兩百萬那檢察官給他限制出境出海給他做電子監控那我想是不是要羈押我想這個我也只能說我尊重沒有我是尊重啦我是講說整體的社會觀感我沒有去介入說這一個到底是兩百萬還是五百萬還是一千萬我不是指這個意思我的意思是說現在為什麼詐騙集團這麼犯呢原因之一就是說他很容易交保\n562631\t580981\t然後交保金也很低然後呢 刑責可能也不重那所以說會演變成是說那大家覺得說這個好像投報率很高我想委員的這個寶貴反映民眾的聲音我想陳判決他應該會聽得到好啦 就反映一些民眾的聲音給你們啦好 謝謝 加油啦好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們請這個法務部的政部長麻煩部長\n委員好來 部長好 辛苦了這個本席先請教那有一位政治人物他講這個與其去打壓罷免不如來好好的來打炸那你對這句話的看法怎麼樣謝謝委員那個打炸是非常非常重要的那這個罷免這個是因為腐蝕人民那個民主政治的儲值所以是非常重要而且你圍繞一個鼠鴨救一個被害人\n那圍繞很多人這可能會影響很多的民主政治他我們用票選出來的這些的候選人那我想這個嚴重影響這個民主政治的因為我們是一個民主一個是一個透過選舉罷免讓我們人民的參政權\n能夠落實這才是民主法治國家那委員剛剛講的說這樣的有些關心那個打仗當然我們打仗的確是很嚴重權勢很重而且我們在台灣我們不希望打仗成為全民之痛所以我們將心比心我們雖然沒有被騙但是因為我們的辦案人員能夠體系說這個詐騙這個是讓我們的社會的穩定\n非常的嚴重所以我們是全力的打詐所以部長意思是說去查偽造連署的去查死人連署的跟打詐是一樣重要嗎都非常重要都一樣重要一個是侵蝕這個我們民主法制的基礎那另外詐騙呢死不安定嘛\n每個人不管是你本身或是說你的親朋好友可能都有類似這個案件那我就來問你 因為今天的題目有提到說這個聯合國毒品跟犯罪問題辦公室它有一個infraction point這個報告那早上有很多委員都問過那因為還有提到說是台灣那我先請問一下這份報告到底真實性如何\n那跟他上面所提到不論是幫派或是說這個線上的博弈這個BG1 BG2等等之類的你們有去了解這個整個情況是怎麼樣嗎那如果跟他所描述的不實的話有沒有管道去做澄清跟說明\n那這部分的確說來自聯合國毒品及犯罪問題的一個辦公室下載的但這些報告有說明這份報告雖然是由員工跟專家編寫但內容沒有經過正式的編輯跟確認所以不代表這個辦公室的當然它不代表是另外一回事我是說它寫的這個東西有沒有符合現實的狀況\n這個沒有符合現實的就是說它所寫描述的東西它這個都是跟台灣你們所了解的現實的是不是完全是不一樣的是不一樣的而且這裡面的話它是沒有政府關鍵文件所以這個一個立場雖然是有提到說什麼涉及到毒品那個詐欺什麼幫派的但是這裡面也沒有人名也沒有那個公司名所以我們也試圖去了解去注意當然我們一直持續在注意\n所以就像哈索提到說有什麼這個線上博弈BG1 BG2然後了解一些幫派等等你們 據你們了解沒有像他這一個這個調查局我們也是請調查局有就一個了解嘛當然有些三合會的那一部分當然我也做一個法辦了嘛但也不是因為這份報告我們才去法辦而且我們一直持續在注意幫派那如果像部長所講就是說哈索裡面所這些報告的內容其實\n那如果說這個是跟現狀不符的話有沒有管道去做澄清跟說明因為這個其實這個報告出來那不管怎麼樣因為他是掛一個聯合國的一個報告嘛一個毒品犯罪問題這個辦公室的一個報告有沒有管道去澄清跟去說明\n目前台灣的狀況是怎麼樣我想我們在查證後我們再做一個澄清那我想如果有的話那我們當然要檢討不論是法務部調查局或是警政署要做檢討那如果沒有的話我認為還是要去做個說明因為這對於台灣的這個形象會有影響還把這個台灣跟這些東南亞一些國家掛在一起那好像說我們台灣的這些問題跟他們一樣有嚴重啊\n而且他是掛一個POC 這個是對我們非常不友善的這又是另外一個問題啦那另外我想請教一下 那個我們這個馬市長 你現在是這個哪吒中心的指揮官嘛那部長這個先請回\n這個五月四號媒體有披露說這個詐團利用這個監理服務網的電子郵件然後說你這個民眾有交通違規預期的那附一個email給你然後點進去之後那其實就是一個釣魚的網站然後要收集你的個資那其實我在四月初的時候就收到澄清\n就是說他有交通違規但是有交通違規呢他是3月20號他說他沒有做任何的繳款動作暫時在4月4號就收到詐騙的信件所以他高度懷疑啦那會不會說是我們的這個監理所其實也被我不知道是被入侵了被駭客入侵了還是說詐團就是說我們的監理所跟詐團之間是不是有某種程度的配合就是說民眾違規這件事情\n然後呢他過沒多久他就收到一個一個詐騙的一個信件就是說啊你已經違規了那奇怪了那怎麼詐騙會知道這種違規的事情你們有沒有去了解我跟委員報告我們有收到我們有收到類似的案件那每一次我們收到類似案件基本上我們都會請當事的部會我們會列管而且去找清楚原因那就這個問題這個問題的背後當然一定是跟個資外協有關但是他的管道我們現在還不知道\n因為對於這個監理單位的這個包括有停車費的問題也包括有剛剛委員提到罰單的問題那我們最近還有很多民眾接到就是醫院要領藥這樣的一個訊息其實我們現在都有在每一次接到這樣的類似的個案的時候我們都會對外發布新聞說明就是有這樣的個案請民眾要注意那當然是一個...這個真的是事後了啦我那時候你要去查\n他就說那為什麼像監理單位或是說像醫院這些個資會外洩因為這些個資外洩就表示說這有可能是潛在的被詐騙的一些對象啊對所以這個部分跟委員報告我們會跟行政院各支處的籌備處來合作去處理這個問題那所以呢到現在還沒有找到原因在哪裡就對了\n我們可能後續我們跟那個各支會討論確認以後我們跟委員回報因為他後面的原因蠻複雜的這樣子因為我是比較擔心就是說因為他是監禮站那當監禮站有民眾會覺得說那是公家機關所以他給的一些訊息有些人就是覺得說啊好啦那既然有這個未違規了然後既然有一個這麼簡便的一個方式我可以直接線上交款那可能就被詐騙了啦\n所以這部分的話我是希望說不論是這個我們的監理站或是說其他我們很多的公家機關我都很擔心都已經各自外洩了這個已經被這個詐團攻陷了那所以我們很多這個民眾的各自都外流那淪為被詐騙的潛在的對象那我覺得這部分要去查清楚你講那個發布什麼新聞那個都是事後的啦\n對委員這個部分個案能不能把資料給我們我們就直接來處理因為從個案可以追到很多的通案好啊沒問題啊我們每一次只要接到個案我們都會從個案去追通案好所以我這個個案會給你啦好那我不好意思我最後再請教一下這一個正部長齁這個簡單問一下不好意思這個齁\n貴婦奶奶她這個逃亡七年 吸金上億然後前幾天回來投案那吸金上億結果呢 就兩百萬就交保那她的那個 好像是她的公公吧好像之前也回來投案 五十萬就交保那這個民眾會覺得說 那你詐騙吸金上億然後你花個兩百萬就可以交保那後續這些錢也可能追查不回來啊\n就民眾會覺得說 那奇怪了 那所以這個詐騙是一門好生意嗎我可以吸金上業人 然後反正我交保就只有兩百萬那最後刑責 也不知道怎麼樣啦那我就覺得說 這方面的話 對於民眾來講社會觀感是非常的不好啦\n局長這個交保金是回來投案之後就給他交保兩百萬那檢察官給他限制出境出海給他做電子監控那我想是不是要羈押我想這個我也只能說我尊重沒有我是尊重啦我是講說整體的社會觀感我沒有去介入說這一個到底是兩百萬還是五百萬還是一千萬我不是指這個意思我的意思是說現在為什麼詐騙集團這麼犯呢原因之一就是說他很容易交保\n然後交保金也很低然後呢 刑責可能也不重那所以說會演變成是說那大家覺得說這個好像投報率很高我想委員的這個寶貴反映民眾的聲音我想陳判決他應該會聽得到好啦 就反映一些民眾的聲音給你們啦好 謝謝 加油啦好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.095 --> 00:10.799\n謝謝主席我們請這個法務部的政部長麻煩部長\n\n00:15.786 --> 00:45.066\n委員好來部長好辛苦了這個本席先請教那有一位政治人物他講這個與其去打壓罷免不如來好好的來打炸那你對這句話的看法怎麼樣謝謝委員那個打炸是非常非常重要的那這個罷免這個是因為腐蝕人民那個民主政治的儲值所以是非常重要而且你圍繞一個鼠鴨救一個被害人\n\n00:45.686 --> 01:00.256\n那圍繞很多人這可能會影響很多的民主政治他我們用票選出來的這些的候選人那我想這個嚴重影響這個民主政治的因為我們是一個民主一個是一個透過選舉罷免讓我們人民的參政權\n\n01:02.777 --> 01:21.121\n能夠落實這才是民主法治國家那委員剛剛講的說這樣的有些關心那個打仗當然我們打仗的確是很嚴重權勢很重而且我們在台灣我們不希望打仗成為全民之痛所以我們將心比心我們雖然沒有被騙但是因為我們的辦案人員能夠體系說這個詐騙這個是讓我們的社會的穩定\n\n01:28.991 --> 01:44.672\n非常的嚴重所以我們是全力的打詐所以部長意思是說去查偽造連署的去查死人連署的跟打詐是一樣重要嗎都非常重要都一樣重要一個是侵蝕這個我們民主法制的基礎那另外詐騙呢死不安定嘛\n\n01:46.074 --> 02:09.273\n每個人不管是你本身或是說你的親朋好友可能都有類似這個案件那我就來問你因為今天的題目有提到說這個聯合國毒品跟犯罪問題辦公室它有一個infractionpoint這個報告那早上有很多委員都問過那因為還有提到說是台灣那我先請問一下這份報告到底真實性如何\n\n02:09.713 --> 02:25.754\n那跟他上面所提到不論是幫派或是說這個線上的博弈這個BG1BG2等等之類的你們有去了解這個整個情況是怎麼樣嗎那如果跟他所描述的不實的話有沒有管道去做澄清跟說明\n\n02:26.598 --> 02:49.859\n那這部分的確說來自聯合國毒品及犯罪問題的一個辦公室下載的但這些報告有說明這份報告雖然是由員工跟專家編寫但內容沒有經過正式的編輯跟確認所以不代表這個辦公室的當然它不代表是另外一回事我是說它寫的這個東西有沒有符合現實的狀況\n\n02:52.192 --> 03:18.632\n這個沒有符合現實的就是說它所寫描述的東西它這個都是跟台灣你們所了解的現實的是不是完全是不一樣的是不一樣的而且這裡面的話它是沒有政府關鍵文件所以這個一個立場雖然是有提到說什麼涉及到毒品那個詐欺什麼幫派的但是這裡面也沒有人名也沒有那個公司名所以我們也試圖去了解去注意當然我們一直持續在注意\n\n03:21.354 --> 03:48.120\n所以就像哈索提到說有什麼這個線上博弈BG1BG2然後了解一些幫派等等你們據你們了解沒有像他這一個這個調查局我們也是請調查局有就一個了解嘛當然有些三合會的那一部分當然我也做一個法辦了嘛但也不是因為這份報告我們才去法辦而且我們一直持續在注意幫派那如果像部長所講就是說哈索裡面所這些報告的內容其實\n\n03:52.282 --> 04:07.349\n那如果說這個是跟現狀不符的話有沒有管道去做澄清跟說明因為這個其實這個報告出來那不管怎麼樣因為他是掛一個聯合國的一個報告嘛一個毒品犯罪問題這個辦公室的一個報告有沒有管道去澄清跟去說明\n\n04:08.129 --> 04:30.669\n目前台灣的狀況是怎麼樣我想我們在查證後我們再做一個澄清那我想如果有的話那我們當然要檢討不論是法務部調查局或是警政署要做檢討那如果沒有的話我認為還是要去做個說明因為這對於台灣的這個形象會有影響還把這個台灣跟這些東南亞一些國家掛在一起那好像說我們台灣的這些問題跟他們一樣有嚴重啊\n\n04:32.284 --> 04:46.813\n而且他是掛一個POC這個是對我們非常不友善的這又是另外一個問題啦那另外我想請教一下那個我們這個馬市長你現在是這個哪吒中心的指揮官嘛那部長這個先請回\n\n04:55.680 --> 05:13.799\n這個五月四號媒體有披露說這個詐團利用這個監理服務網的電子郵件然後說你這個民眾有交通違規預期的那附一個email給你然後點進去之後那其實就是一個釣魚的網站然後要收集你的個資那其實我在四月初的時候就收到澄清\n\n05:14.440 --> 05:41.045\n就是說他有交通違規但是有交通違規呢他是3月20號他說他沒有做任何的繳款動作暫時在4月4號就收到詐騙的信件所以他高度懷疑啦那會不會說是我們的這個監理所其實也被我不知道是被入侵了被駭客入侵了還是說詐團就是說我們的監理所跟詐團之間是不是有某種程度的配合就是說民眾違規這件事情\n\n05:43.083 --> 06:04.690\n然後呢他過沒多久他就收到一個一個詐騙的一個信件就是說啊你已經違規了那奇怪了那怎麼詐騙會知道這種違規的事情你們有沒有去了解我跟委員報告我們有收到我們有收到類似的案件那每一次我們收到類似案件基本上我們都會請當事的部會我們會列管而且去找清楚原因那就這個問題這個問題的背後當然一定是跟個資外協有關但是他的管道我們現在還不知道\n\n06:11.912 --> 06:38.272\n因為對於這個監理單位的這個包括有停車費的問題也包括有剛剛委員提到罰單的問題那我們最近還有很多民眾接到就是醫院要領藥這樣的一個訊息其實我們現在都有在每一次接到這樣的類似的個案的時候我們都會對外發布新聞說明就是有這樣的個案請民眾要注意那當然是一個...這個真的是事後了啦我那時候你要去查\n\n06:38.852 --> 06:58.172\n他就說那為什麼像監理單位或是說像醫院這些個資會外洩因為這些個資外洩就表示說這有可能是潛在的被詐騙的一些對象啊對所以這個部分跟委員報告我們會跟行政院各支處的籌備處來合作去處理這個問題那所以呢到現在還沒有找到原因在哪裡就對了\n\n06:59.233 --> 07:22.623\n我們可能後續我們跟那個各支會討論確認以後我們跟委員回報因為他後面的原因蠻複雜的這樣子因為我是比較擔心就是說因為他是監禮站那當監禮站有民眾會覺得說那是公家機關所以他給的一些訊息有些人就是覺得說啊好啦那既然有這個未違規了然後既然有一個這麼簡便的一個方式我可以直接線上交款那可能就被詐騙了啦\n\n07:23.823 --> 07:48.056\n所以這部分的話我是希望說不論是這個我們的監理站或是說其他我們很多的公家機關我都很擔心都已經各自外洩了這個已經被這個詐團攻陷了那所以我們很多這個民眾的各自都外流那淪為被詐騙的潛在的對象那我覺得這部分要去查清楚你講那個發布什麼新聞那個都是事後的啦\n\n07:48.736 --> 08:04.255\n對委員這個部分個案能不能把資料給我們我們就直接來處理因為從個案可以追到很多的通案好啊沒問題啊我們每一次只要接到個案我們都會從個案去追通案好所以我這個個案會給你啦好那我不好意思我最後再請教一下這一個正部長齁這個簡單問一下不好意思這個齁\n\n08:09.512 --> 08:34.870\n貴婦奶奶她這個逃亡七年吸金上億然後前幾天回來投案那吸金上億結果呢就兩百萬就交保那她的那個好像是她的公公吧好像之前也回來投案五十萬就交保那這個民眾會覺得說那你詐騙吸金上億然後你花個兩百萬就可以交保那後續這些錢也可能追查不回來啊\n\n08:35.330 --> 08:50.912\n就民眾會覺得說那奇怪了那所以這個詐騙是一門好生意嗎我可以吸金上業人然後反正我交保就只有兩百萬那最後刑責也不知道怎麼樣啦那我就覺得說這方面的話對於民眾來講社會觀感是非常的不好啦\n\n08:53.319 --> 09:22.011\n局長這個交保金是回來投案之後就給他交保兩百萬那檢察官給他限制出境出海給他做電子監控那我想是不是要羈押我想這個我也只能說我尊重沒有我是尊重啦我是講說整體的社會觀感我沒有去介入說這一個到底是兩百萬還是五百萬還是一千萬我不是指這個意思我的意思是說現在為什麼詐騙集團這麼犯呢原因之一就是說他很容易交保\n\n09:22.631 --> 09:40.981\n然後交保金也很低然後呢刑責可能也不重那所以說會演變成是說那大家覺得說這個好像投報率很高我想委員的這個寶貴反映民眾的聲音我想陳判決他應該會聽得到好啦就反映一些民眾的聲音給你們啦好謝謝加油啦好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.095,"end":10.799,"text":"謝謝主席我們請這個法務部的政部長麻煩部長"},{"start":15.786,"end":45.066,"text":"委員好來 部長好 辛苦了這個本席先請教那有一位政治人物他講這個與其去打壓罷免不如來好好的來打炸那你對這句話的看法怎麼樣謝謝委員那個打炸是非常非常重要的那這個罷免這個是因為腐蝕人民那個民主政治的儲值所以是非常重要而且你圍繞一個鼠鴨救一個被害人"},{"start":45.686,"end":60.256,"text":"那圍繞很多人這可能會影響很多的民主政治他我們用票選出來的這些的候選人那我想這個嚴重影響這個民主政治的因為我們是一個民主一個是一個透過選舉罷免讓我們人民的參政權"},{"start":62.777,"end":81.121,"text":"能夠落實這才是民主法治國家那委員剛剛講的說這樣的有些關心那個打仗當然我們打仗的確是很嚴重權勢很重而且我們在台灣我們不希望打仗成為全民之痛所以我們將心比心我們雖然沒有被騙但是因為我們的辦案人員能夠體系說這個詐騙這個是讓我們的社會的穩定"},{"start":88.991,"end":104.672,"text":"非常的嚴重所以我們是全力的打詐所以部長意思是說去查偽造連署的去查死人連署的跟打詐是一樣重要嗎都非常重要都一樣重要一個是侵蝕這個我們民主法制的基礎那另外詐騙呢死不安定嘛"},{"start":106.074,"end":129.273,"text":"每個人不管是你本身或是說你的親朋好友可能都有類似這個案件那我就來問你 因為今天的題目有提到說這個聯合國毒品跟犯罪問題辦公室它有一個infraction point這個報告那早上有很多委員都問過那因為還有提到說是台灣那我先請問一下這份報告到底真實性如何"},{"start":129.713,"end":145.754,"text":"那跟他上面所提到不論是幫派或是說這個線上的博弈這個BG1 BG2等等之類的你們有去了解這個整個情況是怎麼樣嗎那如果跟他所描述的不實的話有沒有管道去做澄清跟說明"},{"start":146.598,"end":169.859,"text":"那這部分的確說來自聯合國毒品及犯罪問題的一個辦公室下載的但這些報告有說明這份報告雖然是由員工跟專家編寫但內容沒有經過正式的編輯跟確認所以不代表這個辦公室的當然它不代表是另外一回事我是說它寫的這個東西有沒有符合現實的狀況"},{"start":172.192,"end":198.632,"text":"這個沒有符合現實的就是說它所寫描述的東西它這個都是跟台灣你們所了解的現實的是不是完全是不一樣的是不一樣的而且這裡面的話它是沒有政府關鍵文件所以這個一個立場雖然是有提到說什麼涉及到毒品那個詐欺什麼幫派的但是這裡面也沒有人名也沒有那個公司名所以我們也試圖去了解去注意當然我們一直持續在注意"},{"start":201.354,"end":228.12,"text":"所以就像哈索提到說有什麼這個線上博弈BG1 BG2然後了解一些幫派等等你們 據你們了解沒有像他這一個這個調查局我們也是請調查局有就一個了解嘛當然有些三合會的那一部分當然我也做一個法辦了嘛但也不是因為這份報告我們才去法辦而且我們一直持續在注意幫派那如果像部長所講就是說哈索裡面所這些報告的內容其實"},{"start":232.282,"end":247.349,"text":"那如果說這個是跟現狀不符的話有沒有管道去做澄清跟說明因為這個其實這個報告出來那不管怎麼樣因為他是掛一個聯合國的一個報告嘛一個毒品犯罪問題這個辦公室的一個報告有沒有管道去澄清跟去說明"},{"start":248.129,"end":270.669,"text":"目前台灣的狀況是怎麼樣我想我們在查證後我們再做一個澄清那我想如果有的話那我們當然要檢討不論是法務部調查局或是警政署要做檢討那如果沒有的話我認為還是要去做個說明因為這對於台灣的這個形象會有影響還把這個台灣跟這些東南亞一些國家掛在一起那好像說我們台灣的這些問題跟他們一樣有嚴重啊"},{"start":272.284,"end":286.813,"text":"而且他是掛一個POC 這個是對我們非常不友善的這又是另外一個問題啦那另外我想請教一下 那個我們這個馬市長 你現在是這個哪吒中心的指揮官嘛那部長這個先請回"},{"start":295.68,"end":313.799,"text":"這個五月四號媒體有披露說這個詐團利用這個監理服務網的電子郵件然後說你這個民眾有交通違規預期的那附一個email給你然後點進去之後那其實就是一個釣魚的網站然後要收集你的個資那其實我在四月初的時候就收到澄清"},{"start":314.44,"end":341.045,"text":"就是說他有交通違規但是有交通違規呢他是3月20號他說他沒有做任何的繳款動作暫時在4月4號就收到詐騙的信件所以他高度懷疑啦那會不會說是我們的這個監理所其實也被我不知道是被入侵了被駭客入侵了還是說詐團就是說我們的監理所跟詐團之間是不是有某種程度的配合就是說民眾違規這件事情"},{"start":343.083,"end":364.69,"text":"然後呢他過沒多久他就收到一個一個詐騙的一個信件就是說啊你已經違規了那奇怪了那怎麼詐騙會知道這種違規的事情你們有沒有去了解我跟委員報告我們有收到我們有收到類似的案件那每一次我們收到類似案件基本上我們都會請當事的部會我們會列管而且去找清楚原因那就這個問題這個問題的背後當然一定是跟個資外協有關但是他的管道我們現在還不知道"},{"start":371.912,"end":398.272,"text":"因為對於這個監理單位的這個包括有停車費的問題也包括有剛剛委員提到罰單的問題那我們最近還有很多民眾接到就是醫院要領藥這樣的一個訊息其實我們現在都有在每一次接到這樣的類似的個案的時候我們都會對外發布新聞說明就是有這樣的個案請民眾要注意那當然是一個...這個真的是事後了啦我那時候你要去查"},{"start":398.852,"end":418.172,"text":"他就說那為什麼像監理單位或是說像醫院這些個資會外洩因為這些個資外洩就表示說這有可能是潛在的被詐騙的一些對象啊對所以這個部分跟委員報告我們會跟行政院各支處的籌備處來合作去處理這個問題那所以呢到現在還沒有找到原因在哪裡就對了"},{"start":419.233,"end":442.623,"text":"我們可能後續我們跟那個各支會討論確認以後我們跟委員回報因為他後面的原因蠻複雜的這樣子因為我是比較擔心就是說因為他是監禮站那當監禮站有民眾會覺得說那是公家機關所以他給的一些訊息有些人就是覺得說啊好啦那既然有這個未違規了然後既然有一個這麼簡便的一個方式我可以直接線上交款那可能就被詐騙了啦"},{"start":443.823,"end":468.056,"text":"所以這部分的話我是希望說不論是這個我們的監理站或是說其他我們很多的公家機關我都很擔心都已經各自外洩了這個已經被這個詐團攻陷了那所以我們很多這個民眾的各自都外流那淪為被詐騙的潛在的對象那我覺得這部分要去查清楚你講那個發布什麼新聞那個都是事後的啦"},{"start":468.736,"end":484.255,"text":"對委員這個部分個案能不能把資料給我們我們就直接來處理因為從個案可以追到很多的通案好啊沒問題啊我們每一次只要接到個案我們都會從個案去追通案好所以我這個個案會給你啦好那我不好意思我最後再請教一下這一個正部長齁這個簡單問一下不好意思這個齁"},{"start":489.512,"end":514.87,"text":"貴婦奶奶她這個逃亡七年 吸金上億然後前幾天回來投案那吸金上億結果呢 就兩百萬就交保那她的那個 好像是她的公公吧好像之前也回來投案 五十萬就交保那這個民眾會覺得說 那你詐騙吸金上億然後你花個兩百萬就可以交保那後續這些錢也可能追查不回來啊"},{"start":515.33,"end":530.912,"text":"就民眾會覺得說 那奇怪了 那所以這個詐騙是一門好生意嗎我可以吸金上業人 然後反正我交保就只有兩百萬那最後刑責 也不知道怎麼樣啦那我就覺得說 這方面的話 對於民眾來講社會觀感是非常的不好啦"},{"start":533.319,"end":562.011,"text":"局長這個交保金是回來投案之後就給他交保兩百萬那檢察官給他限制出境出海給他做電子監控那我想是不是要羈押我想這個我也只能說我尊重沒有我是尊重啦我是講說整體的社會觀感我沒有去介入說這一個到底是兩百萬還是五百萬還是一千萬我不是指這個意思我的意思是說現在為什麼詐騙集團這麼犯呢原因之一就是說他很容易交保"},{"start":562.631,"end":580.981,"text":"然後交保金也很低然後呢 刑責可能也不重那所以說會演變成是說那大家覺得說這個好像投報率很高我想委員的這個寶貴反映民眾的聲音我想陳判決他應該會聽得到好啦 就反映一些民眾的聲音給你們啦好 謝謝 加油啦好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1096,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時13分）謝謝主席，我們請法務部鄭部長。"],["主席：麻煩部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員好。"],["李委員坤城：部長好，辛苦了。本席先請教，有一位政治人物講：與其去打壓罷免，不如好好地來打詐。你對這句話的看法怎麼樣？"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝委員。打詐是非常、非常重要的，罷免也是因為這會腐蝕民主政治的礎石，所以也非常重要，而且你偽造一個連署就是一個被害人，偽造很多份就可能會影響很多民主政治和我們用票選出來的這些候選人，我想這會嚴重影響到民主政治的……因為我們是透過選舉、罷免讓人民的參政權能夠落實，這才是民主法治國家。","委員剛才講，有些關心打詐的，當然現在的詐騙的確是很嚴重，全世界都很嚴重，而且在臺灣，我們不希望詐騙成為全民之痛，所以我們將心比心，我們雖然沒有被騙，但是因為我們的辦案人員能夠體恤詐騙會讓我們社會的穩定變得非常地嚴重，所以我們要全力地打詐。"],["李委員坤城：部長的意思是，去查偽造連署的、去查死亡連署的跟打詐是一樣地重要。"],["鄭部長銘謙：都非常重要。"],["李委員坤城：都一樣重要嘛！一個是會侵蝕我們民主法治的基礎，另外的一個詐騙呢，當然就是……"],["鄭部長銘謙：社會安定嘛！"],["李委員坤城：每個人不管是你本身還是你的親朋好友，可能都有類似的案件。"],["鄭部長銘謙：對。"],["李委員坤城：那我就來問你，因為今天的題目提到聯合國毒品和犯罪問題辦公室有一個Inflection Point的報告，早上也有很多委員都問過，因為它有提到「臺灣」，所以我先請問一下，這份報告的真實性到底是如何？它上面所提到的，不論是幫派或是線上的博弈BG1、BG2等等之類的，你們有去瞭解整個情況是怎麼樣的嗎？如果跟它所描述的有不實的話，有沒有管道去做澄清跟說明？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分的確是來自聯合國毒品及犯罪問題辦公室下載的，但這些報告有說明，這份報告雖然是由員工跟專家編寫的，但內容並沒有經過正式的編輯跟確認，所以不代表辦公室的……"],["李委員坤城：當然，代不代表是另外一回事，但我是說它寫的這個東西有沒有符合現實的狀況？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個沒有符合現實……"],["李委員坤城：就是說它所描述的東西……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個都是……"],["李委員坤城：跟臺灣你們所瞭解的……"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟現實完全是不一樣的。"],["李委員坤城：是不一樣的？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是不一樣的。而且裡面沒有政府關鍵文件，所以這裡的立場雖然有提到涉及到毒品、詐欺、幫派什麼的，但是裡面既沒有人名，也沒有公司名，所以我們也試圖去瞭解、去注意。當然我們也是一直持續在注意，所以……"],["李委員坤城：就像它所提到的，說有什麼線上博弈BG1、BG2，然後還有一些幫派等等，據你們瞭解，並沒有像它……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個我們也是請調查局去做一個瞭解，當然有些關於三合會的那部分，我們也法辦了，倒也不是因為這份報告我們才去法辦，而是我們一直持續在注意幫派的問題。"],["李委員坤城：好，如果像部長所講的，報告裡面所寫的內容其實……"],["鄭部長銘謙：可信度是還要再查證。"],["李委員坤城：如果這個跟現狀不符的話，有沒有管道去做澄清跟說明？因為這個報告出來，不管怎麼樣畢竟是掛上「聯合國毒品和犯罪問題辦公室」的報告，所以有沒有管道去澄清或去說明目前臺灣的狀況是什麼樣？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我想我們會在查證後再做一個澄清，我想……"],["李委員坤城：對，如果有的話，我們當然要檢討，不論是法務部、調查局或是警政署都要做檢討；如果沒有的話，我認為還是要去做個說明，因為這個對臺灣的形象會有影響。"],["鄭部長銘謙：形象會不好。"],["李委員坤城：它把臺灣跟這些東南亞的一些國家掛在一起，好像我們臺灣的這些問題跟他們一樣很嚴重。"],["鄭部長銘謙：而且它是掛上一個PoC，這對我們來說是非常不友善的。"],["李委員坤城：對，當然，但這又是另外一個問題了。另外，我想請教一下馬次長，你現在是打詐中心的指揮官嘛！部長就先請回。"],["馬指揮官士元：委員午安。"],["李委員坤城：5月4日媒體披露詐團利用監理服務網的電子郵件，說民眾有交通違規逾期，然後附一個email給你，點進去之後其實就是一個釣魚的網站，要蒐集你的個資。其實我在4月初的時候就收到陳情，就是說他有交通違規，但是交通違規的時間是3月20日，他說他沒有做任何繳款的動作，但是在4月4日就收到詐騙的信件，所以他高度懷疑我們的監理所是不是被駭客入侵了？還是我們的監理所跟詐團之間有某種程度的配合？就是說民眾違規這件事情，他過沒多久就收到一個詐騙的信件，說他已經違規了，那就奇怪了，怎麼詐團會知道他違規的事情？你們有沒有去瞭解？"],["馬指揮官士元：跟委員報告，我們有收到類似的案件，每一次我們收到類似的案件，基本上都會請當事的部會列管，而且去找清楚原因。剛剛委員所提到的……"],["李委員坤城：那就這個監理站的問題呢？"],["馬指揮官士元：這個問題的背後當然一定是跟個資外洩有關，但是它的管道我們現在還不知道，因為對於監理單位，包括有停車費的問題，也包括剛剛委員提到罰單的問題，最近還有很多民眾接到醫院要領藥的訊息，其實我們現在每一次接到類似的個案時，都會對外發布新聞說明有這樣的個案，請民眾要注意……"],["李委員坤城：這是事後了啦，我的意思是說你要去查為什麼監理單位或醫院這些個資會外洩？這些個資外洩就表示這是有可能被詐騙的潛在對象啊！"],["馬指揮官士元：對，跟委員報告，我們會跟行政院個資處的籌備處合作去處理這個問題。"],["李委員坤城：所以到現在還沒有找到原因在哪裡就對了？"],["馬指揮官士元：後續我們跟個資會討論確認以後再跟委員回報，因為它後面的原因蠻複雜的。"],["李委員坤城：我比較擔心的是因為它是監理站，有些民眾會覺得監理站是公家機關，所以針對它所給的這些訊息，有些人就會覺得既然自己違規了，然後有一個這麼簡便的方式可以直接線上繳款，那可能就被詐騙了。針對這部分，不論是監理站或其他很多的公家機關，我很擔心都已經個資外洩了，已經被詐團攻陷了，所以很多民眾的個資外流，淪為被詐騙的潛在對象，我覺得這部分要去查清楚。"],["馬指揮官士元：好。"],["李委員坤城：你剛才講發布什麼新聞，那都是事後的啊！"],["馬指揮官士元：委員，關於這部分的個案，能不能把資料給我們，我們就直接來處理，因為從個案可以追到很多的通案。"],["李委員坤城：好啊，沒問題。"],["馬指揮官士元：每一次只要接到個案，我們都會從個案再去追通案。"],["李委員坤城：好，這個個案的資料我會給你。","不好意思，我最後再請教一下鄭部長，貴婦奈奈逃亡7年、吸金上億，然後前幾天回來投案，他吸金上億，結果200萬就交保，他的公公好像之前也回來投案，結果50萬就交保。民眾會覺得詐騙吸金上億，然後花個200萬就可以交保，後續這些錢也可能追查不回來，民眾會覺得很奇怪，所以詐騙是一門好生意嗎？吸金上億，反正交保就只有200萬，最後刑責也不知道怎麼樣，這對於民眾來講，社會觀感是非常不好啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：關於交保金額，的確是他回來投案之後就給他交保200萬，然後檢察官限制他出境、出海，並實施電子監控，至於是不是要羈押，我也只能說我尊重……"],["李委員坤城：我是尊重啦！我是指整體社會觀感，我沒有去介入這到底是要200萬、500萬還是1,000萬，我不是這個意思。我的意思是說，現在詐騙集團這麼氾濫的原因之一就是他很容易交保，而且交保金也很低，然後刑責可能也不重，所以會演變成大家覺得這個好像投報率很高。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員反映民眾的聲音，我想承辦檢察官應該會聽得到。"],["李委員坤城：好啦，就反映一些民眾的聲音給你們啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：好，謝謝。"],["李委員坤城：加油啦，謝謝。"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝。"],["主席：下一位請吳思瑤委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":512,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-15","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","王義川","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","吳思瑤","麥玉珍","李坤城","林月琴","黃珊珊","陳培瑜","莊瑞雄","翁曉玲","林倩綺","沈發惠","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":423,"meetingDate":["2025-05-07"],"gazette_id":"1144601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144601_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心指揮官、內政\n部警政署署長、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、金融監督管理委員會率所屬相關單位列席就\n「臺灣遭聯合國警示為東亞、東南亞跨國詐欺集團據點之檢討與防範，及打詐四法與相關子法施\n行後之具體成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144601_00008"}}}