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\"上\", \"start\": 58.848, \"end\": 59.089, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"角\", \"start\": 59.089, \"end\": 59.289, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 59.289, \"end\": 59.689, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 59.689, \"end\": 60.069, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 60.069, \"end\": 60.149, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 60.149, \"end\": 60.249, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 60.249, \"end\": 60.349, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 60.349, \"end\": 60.47, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 60.47, \"end\": 60.57, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 60.57, \"end\": 60.71, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 60.71, \"end\": 60.83, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 60.83, \"end\": 60.91, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 60.91, \"end\": 60.99, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 60.99, \"end\": 61.11, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 61.11, \"end\": 61.41, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 61.41, \"end\": 61.51, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 61.51, \"end\": 61.53, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 61.53, \"end\": 61.59, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 61.59, \"end\": 61.61, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"責\"}]}, {\"start\": 64.332, \"end\": 92.8, \"text\": \"那這個選委不公比如說很短的時間要求要借回查詢單或者說以後有可能會拖延的審查時間或者說這一個不當的介入審查程序我覺得這幾件事情可能都需要有關注那這個部分我就想說也不用主委特別回答我只是想說反正他一樣就擺在那邊我們可能要特別注意那我今天比較想問的是兩個問題就好因為我只有五分鐘第一個就是這一次花蓮他們在這一個收的過程當中他們只有五個人在點\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 64.332, \"end\": 64.972, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 64.972, \"end\": 65.112, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 65.112, \"end\": 65.232, \"score\": 0.972}, 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0.774}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 88.919, \"end\": 89.139, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"花\", \"start\": 89.139, \"end\": 89.899, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"蓮\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 89.899, \"end\": 90.139, \"score\": 0.669}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 90.139, \"end\": 90.439, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 90.439, \"end\": 90.979, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 90.979, \"end\": 91.139, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 91.139, \"end\": 91.439, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 91.439, \"end\": 91.799, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 91.799, \"end\": 92.0, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 92.0, \"end\": 92.2, \"score\": 0.71}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 92.2, \"end\": 92.3, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 92.3, \"end\": 92.4, \"score\": 0.521}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 92.4, \"end\": 92.66, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 92.66, \"end\": 92.78, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 92.78, \"end\": 92.8, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"點\"}]}, {\"start\": 93.76, \"end\": 118.148, \"text\": \"那這五個人在點我看也不是他們自己的問題因為他們其實應該可以找更多人啊有些人有壓力要有壓力不敢來點那這樣也沒有辦法所以他只有五個人來點那點的這個時間稍微比較長一點點了可能有超過十、十二個小時那他們在點的這個過程當中呢我們就發現因為我們的法條有一個選罷法八十條它規定說未依規定格式提出者應不予受理\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 93.76, \"end\": 93.98, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 93.98, \"end\": 94.1, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 94.1, \"end\": 94.22, \"score\": 0.729}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 94.22, \"end\": 94.46, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 94.46, \"end\": 94.58, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 94.58, \"end\": 94.92, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 94.92, \"end\": 95.06, 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\"但是因為領銜人的代表性就像剛剛嘉賓委員有提到的他是一個代表送件但是他到底有沒有被這個所有的人授權說他可以去同意或不同意這個格式的問題我覺得這有法律上的疑義啦所以這個當然我覺得在未來尤其是就是這一條未依規定格式那個格式的那個解釋如果能夠更清楚的話那就可以讓這樣的紛爭可能會變得更少我有這樣的建議那接下來因為有時間的關係我再快速問下一個就是\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 294.72, \"end\": 294.82, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 294.82, \"end\": 295.28, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 295.28, \"end\": 295.44, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"領\"}, {\"word\": \"銜\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 295.44, \"end\": 295.56, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 295.56, \"end\": 295.66, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 295.66, \"end\": 295.82, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 295.82, \"end\": 296.041, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 296.041, \"end\": 296.181, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 296.181, \"end\": 296.301, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 296.301, \"end\": 297.001, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, 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\"score\": 0.982}]}, {\"start\": 324.388, \"end\": 351.478, \"text\": \"這個南投的這一件事情就是說因為南投他比較早他們是議員的罷免案他們很早就送了那我有看到就是說他們在第一階段的死亡連署是零就是完全沒有但是因為這一次因為基隆的這一個這個事件讓我們看到就是說這個死亡的連署有可能是戶政人員在一開始或者民政的人員一開始幫忙剔除發生這樣的一個醜聞嘛所以我想問一下因為4月14號的時候南投議員被罷免的已經送件了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 324.388, \"end\": 324.608, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 324.608, \"end\": 324.789, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 324.789, \"end\": 324.989, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 324.989, \"end\": 325.069, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 325.069, \"end\": 325.269, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 325.269, \"end\": 325.469, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 325.469, \"end\": 325.669, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 325.669, \"end\": 325.869, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 325.869, \"end\": 326.489, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": 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\"那最後一個就快速的就是公投這件事情因為公投現在已經被提了四個案件光是立法院這邊我剛剛有聽前面的質詢已經有人問就是你有回答到到底算不算重大政策的這個創製跟覆決啦這是中選會要去認定的啦那我只提醒一件事情就好就是說因為他們不管是反戒嚴還是反這個廢死這一個他們今天那個廢死跟戒嚴的狀態在台灣不存在嘛所以我有在想一件事情就是中選會有沒有機會如果說到最後這件事情真的發生的話如果今天再不能\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 403.723, \"end\": 403.863, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 403.863, \"end\": 403.983, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 403.983, \"end\": 404.103, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 404.103, \"end\": 404.243, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 404.243, \"end\": 404.364, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 404.364, \"end\": 404.524, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"速\", \"start\": 404.524, \"end\": 404.664, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 404.664, \"end\": 404.764, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 404.764, \"end\": 404.844, \"score\": 0.745}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 404.844, \"end\": 404.944, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"公\", 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--> 00:00:41,698\n主委辛苦了今天一整天我看很多問題都是重複不是也是沒辦法的事情不是每個人都會去聽前面的人講了什麼我覺得剛剛吳委員的這一個其實我認為是蠻重要的因為有時候我們常常進步二讀的狀況之下很多東西會沒有配套措施所以這個部分我們當然還是會極力的再來去爭取我今天想要問的比較偏向是這一個就是說我們現在罷免的干擾的態樣其實非常多\n\n3\n00:00:44,699 --> 00:01:01,610\n那我們有稍微整理了一下就是說這個先往後面就是說有一些行政上的干擾有場地的干涉然後也有一些立委的施壓甚至在質詢的時候施壓但我覺得跟中選會比較有關的應該是右上角啦因為其他的部分很多可能它是屬於這個內政部的權責\n\n4\n00:01:04,332 --> 00:01:32,800\n那這個選委不公比如說很短的時間要求要借回查詢單或者說以後有可能會拖延的審查時間或者說這一個不當的介入審查程序我覺得這幾件事情可能都需要有關注那這個部分我就想說也不用主委特別回答我只是想說反正他一樣就擺在那邊我們可能要特別注意那我今天比較想問的是兩個問題就好因為我只有五分鐘第一個就是這一次花蓮他們在這一個收的過程當中他們只有五個人在點\n\n5\n00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:58,148\n那這五個人在點我看也不是他們自己的問題因為他們其實應該可以找更多人啊有些人有壓力要有壓力不敢來點那這樣也沒有辦法所以他只有五個人來點那點的這個時間稍微比較長一點點了可能有超過十、十二個小時那他們在點的這個過程當中呢我們就發現因為我們的法條有一個選罷法八十條它規定說未依規定格式提出者應不予受理\n\n6\n00:01:58,988 --> 00:02:23,295\n那這個時候就會有一點疑惑比如說像我們之前花蓮不是格式有問題嗎跑掉了嘛所以當你格式出現問題的時候他當場可以說那這一張不可以或什麼等等之類的但有時候會有疑義比如說到底縮小放大啦或者說線的粗細啦那這種格式就這兩個字未依規定格式那個格式的解釋是當場他就要解釋然後當場做決定\n\n7\n00:02:24,915 --> 00:02:46,067\n還是說他要收下來之後然後開會討論因為我們現場問的時候他們就說他們要開會一下但問題是收的時間就那一天那如果說他當場又要開會那開會假如他那天已經點了12個小時他又要開會這個時間就拉得更長所以我在想說因為現在陸續都一直有在送件嘛中選會是不是有可能要給地方選委會一個比較統一的一個指導\n\n8\n00:02:48,666 --> 00:03:16,306\n謝謝委員的關心我想這一次有關於不管是這個提案的連署或者是這個連署名冊的查對我們的標準是定則是夠周延的一共有三套三個辦法來提供給地方選委會來作為參考所以我說是一套標準一體適用這個是沒有問題的\n\n9\n00:03:17,487 --> 00:03:36,536\n當然在實務的運作上有時候有時候會發生就是當事人跟我們的選務工作人員大家意見相左的情況比如說包括這一次的這個花蓮當然花蓮跟台中這兩個地方都發生了一些這個認知的差距\n\n10\n00:03:37,296 --> 00:03:47,948\n但是經過溝通之後總是有一個辦法在那個地方作為一個標準經過溝通之後這兩個地方的問題都解決了我們認為這也是因為我們的這個辦法有夠周延\n\n11\n00:03:52,273 --> 00:04:12,501\n而且中央跟地方之間保持密切的一個聯繫中央可以做行政的指導所以這些問題應該到目前為止除了花蓮以及台中之外其他地方都相當的平順\n\n12\n00:04:13,241 --> 00:04:35,553\n對因為我在想說就是這樣因為我們現在目前像這個要去看有沒有偽造啦居住期間的問題我看總共有十三十四個嘛對不對這就是就是到時候會被剔除的這些聯署書啊這個實質的審查不可能在當場發生嘛當場只能看這個就是未依規定格式那未依規定格式目前來講我們當然就是其實我們辦公室也有發函給中選會幾次嘛對不對然後就是說\n\n13\n00:04:36,273 --> 00:04:49,878\n這個格式到底要怎麼認定然後到最後可能讓他們這些團體他們可以用公文可以去說這可能是中學會相關的解釋那只是說當時就是說像剛剛主委有提到當時可能就是雙方溝通嘛然後可能這個領銜人在那邊他們也認為說確實啦這個格式有問題所以這一張可能不能用\n\n14\n00:04:54,720 --> 00:05:21,349\n但是因為領銜人的代表性就像剛剛嘉賓委員有提到的他是一個代表送件但是他到底有沒有被這個所有的人授權說他可以去同意或不同意這個格式的問題我覺得這有法律上的疑義啦所以這個當然我覺得在未來尤其是就是這一條未依規定格式那個格式的那個解釋如果能夠更清楚的話那就可以讓這樣的紛爭可能會變得更少我有這樣的建議那接下來因為有時間的關係我再快速問下一個就是\n\n15\n00:05:24,388 --> 00:05:51,478\n這個南投的這一件事情就是說因為南投他比較早他們是議員的罷免案他們很早就送了那我有看到就是說他們在第一階段的死亡連署是零就是完全沒有但是因為這一次因為基隆的這一個這個事件讓我們看到就是說這個死亡的連署有可能是戶政人員在一開始或者民政的人員一開始幫忙剔除發生這樣的一個醜聞嘛所以我想問一下因為4月14號的時候南投議員被罷免的已經送件了\n\n16\n00:05:51,818 --> 00:06:15,803\n那離現在已經也查對的時間應該完成了那他們在第二階段的這個死亡的數字現在出來了嗎因為我前陣子發公文問好像南投這個的地方的委員會他們還沒有一個回沒有一個沒有一個給我們數字上的回應是這點請委員能夠諒解就是以前我們有關於委員所知的部分都會是在查對的結果經過中選會委員會所以現在還在中選會對不對\n\n17\n00:06:19,064 --> 00:06:43,083\n認定了之後我們就會隨著委員會紀錄公布認定了之後雖然紀錄還沒有公布但是只要是立法委員基於問政的需求來函要所知我們也都會配合目前還沒有因為地方選委會應該審查期間完了但是還在中選會認定的過程當中有一件已經是送過來了那我們就在等待\n\n18\n00:06:43,723 --> 00:07:12,604\n那最後一個就快速的就是公投這件事情因為公投現在已經被提了四個案件光是立法院這邊我剛剛有聽前面的質詢已經有人問就是你有回答到到底算不算重大政策的這個創製跟覆決啦這是中選會要去認定的啦那我只提醒一件事情就好就是說因為他們不管是反戒嚴還是反這個廢死這一個他們今天那個廢死跟戒嚴的狀態在台灣不存在嘛所以我有在想一件事情就是中選會有沒有機會如果說到最後這件事情真的發生的話如果今天再不能\n\n19\n00:07:13,004 --> 00:07:36,011\n按照法條審議這是一件事到底能不能審議這是一個爭執另外一個就是我們有沒有可能去提起確認之訴因為我認為說在這樣的一個狀況之下如果說狀態本身不存在那你要怎麼去提起這樣的一個公投這個因為時間的關係今天沒有辦法繼續詢問但我們之後可能會針對因為公投在禮拜五的時候就要來看起來他們就要闖關了那我覺得接下來中選會就會遇到這樣的事情\n\n20\n00:07:36,331 --> 00:07:52,406\n中選會一定會做成決定那至於司法的認定的問題中選會不是適格的原告了對當然當然當然但是我認為說其實某種程度上面我們必須要有一個確認之訴不然的話這件事情其實會變得非常奇怪是好那就先這樣走謝謝好\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4057\t6141\t謝謝主席 邀請主委 謝謝李主委有請委員好\n16153\t41698\t主委辛苦了今天一整天我看很多問題都是重複不是也是沒辦法的事情不是每個人都會去聽前面的人講了什麼我覺得剛剛吳委員的這一個其實我認為是蠻重要的因為有時候我們常常進步二讀的狀況之下很多東西會沒有配套措施所以這個部分我們當然還是會極力的再來去爭取我今天想要問的比較偏向是這一個就是說我們現在罷免的干擾的態樣其實非常多\n44699\t61610\t那我們有稍微整理了一下就是說這個先往後面就是說有一些行政上的干擾有場地的干涉然後也有一些立委的施壓甚至在質詢的時候施壓但我覺得跟中選會比較有關的應該是右上角啦因為其他的部分很多可能它是屬於這個內政部的權責\n64332\t92800\t那這個選委不公比如說很短的時間要求要借回查詢單或者說以後有可能會拖延的審查時間或者說這一個不當的介入審查程序我覺得這幾件事情可能都需要有關注那這個部分我就想說也不用主委特別回答我只是想說反正他一樣就擺在那邊我們可能要特別注意那我今天比較想問的是兩個問題就好因為我只有五分鐘第一個就是這一次花蓮他們在這一個收的過程當中他們只有五個人在點\n93760\t118148\t那這五個人在點我看也不是他們自己的問題因為他們其實應該可以找更多人啊有些人有壓力要有壓力不敢來點那這樣也沒有辦法所以他只有五個人來點那點的這個時間稍微比較長一點點了可能有超過十、十二個小時那他們在點的這個過程當中呢我們就發現因為我們的法條有一個選罷法八十條它規定說未依規定格式提出者應不予受理\n118988\t143295\t那這個時候就會有一點疑惑比如說像我們之前花蓮不是格式有問題嗎跑掉了嘛所以當你格式出現問題的時候他當場可以說那這一張不可以或什麼等等之類的但有時候會有疑義比如說到底縮小放大啦或者說線的粗細啦那這種格式就這兩個字未依規定格式那個格式的解釋是當場他就要解釋然後當場做決定\n144915\t166067\t還是說他要收下來之後然後開會討論因為我們現場問的時候他們就說他們要開會一下但問題是收的時間就那一天那如果說他當場又要開會那開會假如他那天已經點了12個小時他又要開會這個時間就拉得更長所以我在想說因為現在陸續都一直有在送件嘛中選會是不是有可能要給地方選委會一個比較統一的一個指導\n168666\t196306\t謝謝委員的關心我想這一次有關於不管是這個提案的連署或者是這個連署名冊的查對我們的標準是定則是夠周延的一共有三套三個辦法來提供給地方選委會來作為參考所以我說是一套標準一體適用這個是沒有問題的\n197487\t216536\t當然在實務的運作上有時候有時候會發生就是當事人跟我們的選務工作人員大家意見相左的情況比如說包括這一次的這個花蓮當然花蓮跟台中這兩個地方都發生了一些這個認知的差距\n217296\t227948\t但是經過溝通之後總是有一個辦法在那個地方作為一個標準經過溝通之後這兩個地方的問題都解決了我們認為這也是因為我們的這個辦法有夠周延\n232273\t252501\t而且中央跟地方之間保持密切的一個聯繫中央可以做行政的指導所以這些問題應該到目前為止除了花蓮以及台中之外其他地方都相當的平順\n253241\t275553\t對 因為我在想說就是這樣因為我們現在目前像這個要去看有沒有偽造啦居住期間的問題我看總共有十三十四個嘛 對不對這就是就是到時候會被剔除的這些聯署書啊這個實質的審查不可能在當場發生嘛當場只能看這個就是未依規定格式那未依規定格式目前來講我們當然就是其實我們辦公室也有發函給中選會幾次嘛 對不對然後就是說\n276273\t289878\t這個格式到底要怎麼認定然後到最後可能讓他們這些團體他們可以用公文可以去說這可能是中學會相關的解釋那只是說當時就是說像剛剛主委有提到當時可能就是雙方溝通嘛然後可能這個領銜人在那邊他們也認為說確實啦這個格式有問題所以這一張可能不能用\n294720\t321349\t但是因為領銜人的代表性就像剛剛嘉賓委員有提到的他是一個代表送件但是他到底有沒有被這個所有的人授權說他可以去同意或不同意這個格式的問題我覺得這有法律上的疑義啦所以這個當然我覺得在未來尤其是就是這一條未依規定格式那個格式的那個解釋如果能夠更清楚的話那就可以讓這樣的紛爭可能會變得更少我有這樣的建議那接下來因為有時間的關係我再快速問下一個就是\n324388\t351478\t這個南投的這一件事情就是說因為南投他比較早他們是議員的罷免案他們很早就送了那我有看到就是說他們在第一階段的死亡連署是零就是完全沒有但是因為這一次因為基隆的這一個這個事件讓我們看到就是說這個死亡的連署有可能是戶政人員在一開始或者民政的人員一開始幫忙剔除發生這樣的一個醜聞嘛所以我想問一下因為4月14號的時候南投議員被罷免的已經送件了\n351818\t375803\t那離現在已經也查對的時間應該完成了那他們在第二階段的這個死亡的數字現在出來了嗎因為我前陣子發公文問好像南投這個的地方的委員會他們還沒有一個回沒有一個沒有一個給我們數字上的回應是這點請委員能夠諒解就是以前我們有關於委員所知的部分都會是在查對的結果經過中選會委員會所以現在還在中選會對不對\n379064\t403083\t認定了之後我們就會隨著委員會紀錄公布認定了之後雖然紀錄還沒有公布但是只要是立法委員基於問政的需求來函要所知我們也都會配合目前還沒有因為地方選委會應該審查期間完了但是還在中選會認定的過程當中有一件已經是送過來了那我們就在等待\n403723\t432604\t那最後一個就快速的就是公投這件事情因為公投現在已經被提了四個案件光是立法院這邊我剛剛有聽前面的質詢已經有人問就是你有回答到到底算不算重大政策的這個創製跟覆決啦這是中選會要去認定的啦那我只提醒一件事情就好就是說因為他們不管是反戒嚴還是反這個廢死這一個他們今天那個廢死跟戒嚴的狀態在台灣不存在嘛所以我有在想一件事情就是中選會有沒有機會如果說到最後這件事情真的發生的話如果今天再不能\n433004\t456011\t按照法條審議這是一件事到底能不能審議這是一個爭執另外一個就是我們有沒有可能去提起確認之訴因為我認為說在這樣的一個狀況之下如果說狀態本身不存在那你要怎麼去提起這樣的一個公投這個因為時間的關係今天沒有辦法繼續詢問但我們之後可能會針對因為公投在禮拜五的時候就要來看起來他們就要闖關了那我覺得接下來中選會就會遇到這樣的事情\n456331\t472406\t中選會一定會做成決定那至於司法的認定的問題中選會不是適格的原告了對 當然當然當然但是我認為說其實某種程度上面我們必須要有一個確認之訴不然的話這件事情其實會變得非常奇怪是好 那就先這樣走 謝謝好\n","txt":"謝謝主席 邀請主委 謝謝李主委有請委員好\n主委辛苦了今天一整天我看很多問題都是重複不是也是沒辦法的事情不是每個人都會去聽前面的人講了什麼我覺得剛剛吳委員的這一個其實我認為是蠻重要的因為有時候我們常常進步二讀的狀況之下很多東西會沒有配套措施所以這個部分我們當然還是會極力的再來去爭取我今天想要問的比較偏向是這一個就是說我們現在罷免的干擾的態樣其實非常多\n那我們有稍微整理了一下就是說這個先往後面就是說有一些行政上的干擾有場地的干涉然後也有一些立委的施壓甚至在質詢的時候施壓但我覺得跟中選會比較有關的應該是右上角啦因為其他的部分很多可能它是屬於這個內政部的權責\n那這個選委不公比如說很短的時間要求要借回查詢單或者說以後有可能會拖延的審查時間或者說這一個不當的介入審查程序我覺得這幾件事情可能都需要有關注那這個部分我就想說也不用主委特別回答我只是想說反正他一樣就擺在那邊我們可能要特別注意那我今天比較想問的是兩個問題就好因為我只有五分鐘第一個就是這一次花蓮他們在這一個收的過程當中他們只有五個人在點\n那這五個人在點我看也不是他們自己的問題因為他們其實應該可以找更多人啊有些人有壓力要有壓力不敢來點那這樣也沒有辦法所以他只有五個人來點那點的這個時間稍微比較長一點點了可能有超過十、十二個小時那他們在點的這個過程當中呢我們就發現因為我們的法條有一個選罷法八十條它規定說未依規定格式提出者應不予受理\n那這個時候就會有一點疑惑比如說像我們之前花蓮不是格式有問題嗎跑掉了嘛所以當你格式出現問題的時候他當場可以說那這一張不可以或什麼等等之類的但有時候會有疑義比如說到底縮小放大啦或者說線的粗細啦那這種格式就這兩個字未依規定格式那個格式的解釋是當場他就要解釋然後當場做決定\n還是說他要收下來之後然後開會討論因為我們現場問的時候他們就說他們要開會一下但問題是收的時間就那一天那如果說他當場又要開會那開會假如他那天已經點了12個小時他又要開會這個時間就拉得更長所以我在想說因為現在陸續都一直有在送件嘛中選會是不是有可能要給地方選委會一個比較統一的一個指導\n謝謝委員的關心我想這一次有關於不管是這個提案的連署或者是這個連署名冊的查對我們的標準是定則是夠周延的一共有三套三個辦法來提供給地方選委會來作為參考所以我說是一套標準一體適用這個是沒有問題的\n當然在實務的運作上有時候有時候會發生就是當事人跟我們的選務工作人員大家意見相左的情況比如說包括這一次的這個花蓮當然花蓮跟台中這兩個地方都發生了一些這個認知的差距\n但是經過溝通之後總是有一個辦法在那個地方作為一個標準經過溝通之後這兩個地方的問題都解決了我們認為這也是因為我們的這個辦法有夠周延\n而且中央跟地方之間保持密切的一個聯繫中央可以做行政的指導所以這些問題應該到目前為止除了花蓮以及台中之外其他地方都相當的平順\n對 因為我在想說就是這樣因為我們現在目前像這個要去看有沒有偽造啦居住期間的問題我看總共有十三十四個嘛 對不對這就是就是到時候會被剔除的這些聯署書啊這個實質的審查不可能在當場發生嘛當場只能看這個就是未依規定格式那未依規定格式目前來講我們當然就是其實我們辦公室也有發函給中選會幾次嘛 對不對然後就是說\n這個格式到底要怎麼認定然後到最後可能讓他們這些團體他們可以用公文可以去說這可能是中學會相關的解釋那只是說當時就是說像剛剛主委有提到當時可能就是雙方溝通嘛然後可能這個領銜人在那邊他們也認為說確實啦這個格式有問題所以這一張可能不能用\n但是因為領銜人的代表性就像剛剛嘉賓委員有提到的他是一個代表送件但是他到底有沒有被這個所有的人授權說他可以去同意或不同意這個格式的問題我覺得這有法律上的疑義啦所以這個當然我覺得在未來尤其是就是這一條未依規定格式那個格式的那個解釋如果能夠更清楚的話那就可以讓這樣的紛爭可能會變得更少我有這樣的建議那接下來因為有時間的關係我再快速問下一個就是\n這個南投的這一件事情就是說因為南投他比較早他們是議員的罷免案他們很早就送了那我有看到就是說他們在第一階段的死亡連署是零就是完全沒有但是因為這一次因為基隆的這一個這個事件讓我們看到就是說這個死亡的連署有可能是戶政人員在一開始或者民政的人員一開始幫忙剔除發生這樣的一個醜聞嘛所以我想問一下因為4月14號的時候南投議員被罷免的已經送件了\n那離現在已經也查對的時間應該完成了那他們在第二階段的這個死亡的數字現在出來了嗎因為我前陣子發公文問好像南投這個的地方的委員會他們還沒有一個回沒有一個沒有一個給我們數字上的回應是這點請委員能夠諒解就是以前我們有關於委員所知的部分都會是在查對的結果經過中選會委員會所以現在還在中選會對不對\n認定了之後我們就會隨著委員會紀錄公布認定了之後雖然紀錄還沒有公布但是只要是立法委員基於問政的需求來函要所知我們也都會配合目前還沒有因為地方選委會應該審查期間完了但是還在中選會認定的過程當中有一件已經是送過來了那我們就在等待\n那最後一個就快速的就是公投這件事情因為公投現在已經被提了四個案件光是立法院這邊我剛剛有聽前面的質詢已經有人問就是你有回答到到底算不算重大政策的這個創製跟覆決啦這是中選會要去認定的啦那我只提醒一件事情就好就是說因為他們不管是反戒嚴還是反這個廢死這一個他們今天那個廢死跟戒嚴的狀態在台灣不存在嘛所以我有在想一件事情就是中選會有沒有機會如果說到最後這件事情真的發生的話如果今天再不能\n按照法條審議這是一件事到底能不能審議這是一個爭執另外一個就是我們有沒有可能去提起確認之訴因為我認為說在這樣的一個狀況之下如果說狀態本身不存在那你要怎麼去提起這樣的一個公投這個因為時間的關係今天沒有辦法繼續詢問但我們之後可能會針對因為公投在禮拜五的時候就要來看起來他們就要闖關了那我覺得接下來中選會就會遇到這樣的事情\n中選會一定會做成決定那至於司法的認定的問題中選會不是適格的原告了對 當然當然當然但是我認為說其實某種程度上面我們必須要有一個確認之訴不然的話這件事情其實會變得非常奇怪是好 那就先這樣走 謝謝好\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.057 --> 00:06.141\n謝謝主席邀請主委謝謝李主委有請委員好\n\n00:16.153 --> 00:41.698\n主委辛苦了今天一整天我看很多問題都是重複不是也是沒辦法的事情不是每個人都會去聽前面的人講了什麼我覺得剛剛吳委員的這一個其實我認為是蠻重要的因為有時候我們常常進步二讀的狀況之下很多東西會沒有配套措施所以這個部分我們當然還是會極力的再來去爭取我今天想要問的比較偏向是這一個就是說我們現在罷免的干擾的態樣其實非常多\n\n00:44.699 --> 01:01.610\n那我們有稍微整理了一下就是說這個先往後面就是說有一些行政上的干擾有場地的干涉然後也有一些立委的施壓甚至在質詢的時候施壓但我覺得跟中選會比較有關的應該是右上角啦因為其他的部分很多可能它是屬於這個內政部的權責\n\n01:04.332 --> 01:32.800\n那這個選委不公比如說很短的時間要求要借回查詢單或者說以後有可能會拖延的審查時間或者說這一個不當的介入審查程序我覺得這幾件事情可能都需要有關注那這個部分我就想說也不用主委特別回答我只是想說反正他一樣就擺在那邊我們可能要特別注意那我今天比較想問的是兩個問題就好因為我只有五分鐘第一個就是這一次花蓮他們在這一個收的過程當中他們只有五個人在點\n\n01:33.760 --> 01:58.148\n那這五個人在點我看也不是他們自己的問題因為他們其實應該可以找更多人啊有些人有壓力要有壓力不敢來點那這樣也沒有辦法所以他只有五個人來點那點的這個時間稍微比較長一點點了可能有超過十、十二個小時那他們在點的這個過程當中呢我們就發現因為我們的法條有一個選罷法八十條它規定說未依規定格式提出者應不予受理\n\n01:58.988 --> 02:23.295\n那這個時候就會有一點疑惑比如說像我們之前花蓮不是格式有問題嗎跑掉了嘛所以當你格式出現問題的時候他當場可以說那這一張不可以或什麼等等之類的但有時候會有疑義比如說到底縮小放大啦或者說線的粗細啦那這種格式就這兩個字未依規定格式那個格式的解釋是當場他就要解釋然後當場做決定\n\n02:24.915 --> 02:46.067\n還是說他要收下來之後然後開會討論因為我們現場問的時候他們就說他們要開會一下但問題是收的時間就那一天那如果說他當場又要開會那開會假如他那天已經點了12個小時他又要開會這個時間就拉得更長所以我在想說因為現在陸續都一直有在送件嘛中選會是不是有可能要給地方選委會一個比較統一的一個指導\n\n02:48.666 --> 03:16.306\n謝謝委員的關心我想這一次有關於不管是這個提案的連署或者是這個連署名冊的查對我們的標準是定則是夠周延的一共有三套三個辦法來提供給地方選委會來作為參考所以我說是一套標準一體適用這個是沒有問題的\n\n03:17.487 --> 03:36.536\n當然在實務的運作上有時候有時候會發生就是當事人跟我們的選務工作人員大家意見相左的情況比如說包括這一次的這個花蓮當然花蓮跟台中這兩個地方都發生了一些這個認知的差距\n\n03:37.296 --> 03:47.948\n但是經過溝通之後總是有一個辦法在那個地方作為一個標準經過溝通之後這兩個地方的問題都解決了我們認為這也是因為我們的這個辦法有夠周延\n\n03:52.273 --> 04:12.501\n而且中央跟地方之間保持密切的一個聯繫中央可以做行政的指導所以這些問題應該到目前為止除了花蓮以及台中之外其他地方都相當的平順\n\n04:13.241 --> 04:35.553\n對因為我在想說就是這樣因為我們現在目前像這個要去看有沒有偽造啦居住期間的問題我看總共有十三十四個嘛對不對這就是就是到時候會被剔除的這些聯署書啊這個實質的審查不可能在當場發生嘛當場只能看這個就是未依規定格式那未依規定格式目前來講我們當然就是其實我們辦公室也有發函給中選會幾次嘛對不對然後就是說\n\n04:36.273 --> 04:49.878\n這個格式到底要怎麼認定然後到最後可能讓他們這些團體他們可以用公文可以去說這可能是中學會相關的解釋那只是說當時就是說像剛剛主委有提到當時可能就是雙方溝通嘛然後可能這個領銜人在那邊他們也認為說確實啦這個格式有問題所以這一張可能不能用\n\n04:54.720 --> 05:21.349\n但是因為領銜人的代表性就像剛剛嘉賓委員有提到的他是一個代表送件但是他到底有沒有被這個所有的人授權說他可以去同意或不同意這個格式的問題我覺得這有法律上的疑義啦所以這個當然我覺得在未來尤其是就是這一條未依規定格式那個格式的那個解釋如果能夠更清楚的話那就可以讓這樣的紛爭可能會變得更少我有這樣的建議那接下來因為有時間的關係我再快速問下一個就是\n\n05:24.388 --> 05:51.478\n這個南投的這一件事情就是說因為南投他比較早他們是議員的罷免案他們很早就送了那我有看到就是說他們在第一階段的死亡連署是零就是完全沒有但是因為這一次因為基隆的這一個這個事件讓我們看到就是說這個死亡的連署有可能是戶政人員在一開始或者民政的人員一開始幫忙剔除發生這樣的一個醜聞嘛所以我想問一下因為4月14號的時候南投議員被罷免的已經送件了\n\n05:51.818 --> 06:15.803\n那離現在已經也查對的時間應該完成了那他們在第二階段的這個死亡的數字現在出來了嗎因為我前陣子發公文問好像南投這個的地方的委員會他們還沒有一個回沒有一個沒有一個給我們數字上的回應是這點請委員能夠諒解就是以前我們有關於委員所知的部分都會是在查對的結果經過中選會委員會所以現在還在中選會對不對\n\n06:19.064 --> 06:43.083\n認定了之後我們就會隨著委員會紀錄公布認定了之後雖然紀錄還沒有公布但是只要是立法委員基於問政的需求來函要所知我們也都會配合目前還沒有因為地方選委會應該審查期間完了但是還在中選會認定的過程當中有一件已經是送過來了那我們就在等待\n\n06:43.723 --> 07:12.604\n那最後一個就快速的就是公投這件事情因為公投現在已經被提了四個案件光是立法院這邊我剛剛有聽前面的質詢已經有人問就是你有回答到到底算不算重大政策的這個創製跟覆決啦這是中選會要去認定的啦那我只提醒一件事情就好就是說因為他們不管是反戒嚴還是反這個廢死這一個他們今天那個廢死跟戒嚴的狀態在台灣不存在嘛所以我有在想一件事情就是中選會有沒有機會如果說到最後這件事情真的發生的話如果今天再不能\n\n07:13.004 --> 07:36.011\n按照法條審議這是一件事到底能不能審議這是一個爭執另外一個就是我們有沒有可能去提起確認之訴因為我認為說在這樣的一個狀況之下如果說狀態本身不存在那你要怎麼去提起這樣的一個公投這個因為時間的關係今天沒有辦法繼續詢問但我們之後可能會針對因為公投在禮拜五的時候就要來看起來他們就要闖關了那我覺得接下來中選會就會遇到這樣的事情\n\n07:36.331 --> 07:52.406\n中選會一定會做成決定那至於司法的認定的問題中選會不是適格的原告了對當然當然當然但是我認為說其實某種程度上面我們必須要有一個確認之訴不然的話這件事情其實會變得非常奇怪是好那就先這樣走謝謝好\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.057,"end":6.141,"text":"謝謝主席 邀請主委 謝謝李主委有請委員好"},{"start":16.153,"end":41.698,"text":"主委辛苦了今天一整天我看很多問題都是重複不是也是沒辦法的事情不是每個人都會去聽前面的人講了什麼我覺得剛剛吳委員的這一個其實我認為是蠻重要的因為有時候我們常常進步二讀的狀況之下很多東西會沒有配套措施所以這個部分我們當然還是會極力的再來去爭取我今天想要問的比較偏向是這一個就是說我們現在罷免的干擾的態樣其實非常多"},{"start":44.699,"end":61.61,"text":"那我們有稍微整理了一下就是說這個先往後面就是說有一些行政上的干擾有場地的干涉然後也有一些立委的施壓甚至在質詢的時候施壓但我覺得跟中選會比較有關的應該是右上角啦因為其他的部分很多可能它是屬於這個內政部的權責"},{"start":64.332,"end":92.8,"text":"那這個選委不公比如說很短的時間要求要借回查詢單或者說以後有可能會拖延的審查時間或者說這一個不當的介入審查程序我覺得這幾件事情可能都需要有關注那這個部分我就想說也不用主委特別回答我只是想說反正他一樣就擺在那邊我們可能要特別注意那我今天比較想問的是兩個問題就好因為我只有五分鐘第一個就是這一次花蓮他們在這一個收的過程當中他們只有五個人在點"},{"start":93.76,"end":118.148,"text":"那這五個人在點我看也不是他們自己的問題因為他們其實應該可以找更多人啊有些人有壓力要有壓力不敢來點那這樣也沒有辦法所以他只有五個人來點那點的這個時間稍微比較長一點點了可能有超過十、十二個小時那他們在點的這個過程當中呢我們就發現因為我們的法條有一個選罷法八十條它規定說未依規定格式提出者應不予受理"},{"start":118.988,"end":143.295,"text":"那這個時候就會有一點疑惑比如說像我們之前花蓮不是格式有問題嗎跑掉了嘛所以當你格式出現問題的時候他當場可以說那這一張不可以或什麼等等之類的但有時候會有疑義比如說到底縮小放大啦或者說線的粗細啦那這種格式就這兩個字未依規定格式那個格式的解釋是當場他就要解釋然後當場做決定"},{"start":144.915,"end":166.067,"text":"還是說他要收下來之後然後開會討論因為我們現場問的時候他們就說他們要開會一下但問題是收的時間就那一天那如果說他當場又要開會那開會假如他那天已經點了12個小時他又要開會這個時間就拉得更長所以我在想說因為現在陸續都一直有在送件嘛中選會是不是有可能要給地方選委會一個比較統一的一個指導"},{"start":168.666,"end":196.306,"text":"謝謝委員的關心我想這一次有關於不管是這個提案的連署或者是這個連署名冊的查對我們的標準是定則是夠周延的一共有三套三個辦法來提供給地方選委會來作為參考所以我說是一套標準一體適用這個是沒有問題的"},{"start":197.487,"end":216.536,"text":"當然在實務的運作上有時候有時候會發生就是當事人跟我們的選務工作人員大家意見相左的情況比如說包括這一次的這個花蓮當然花蓮跟台中這兩個地方都發生了一些這個認知的差距"},{"start":217.296,"end":227.948,"text":"但是經過溝通之後總是有一個辦法在那個地方作為一個標準經過溝通之後這兩個地方的問題都解決了我們認為這也是因為我們的這個辦法有夠周延"},{"start":232.273,"end":252.501,"text":"而且中央跟地方之間保持密切的一個聯繫中央可以做行政的指導所以這些問題應該到目前為止除了花蓮以及台中之外其他地方都相當的平順"},{"start":253.241,"end":275.553,"text":"對 因為我在想說就是這樣因為我們現在目前像這個要去看有沒有偽造啦居住期間的問題我看總共有十三十四個嘛 對不對這就是就是到時候會被剔除的這些聯署書啊這個實質的審查不可能在當場發生嘛當場只能看這個就是未依規定格式那未依規定格式目前來講我們當然就是其實我們辦公室也有發函給中選會幾次嘛 對不對然後就是說"},{"start":276.273,"end":289.878,"text":"這個格式到底要怎麼認定然後到最後可能讓他們這些團體他們可以用公文可以去說這可能是中學會相關的解釋那只是說當時就是說像剛剛主委有提到當時可能就是雙方溝通嘛然後可能這個領銜人在那邊他們也認為說確實啦這個格式有問題所以這一張可能不能用"},{"start":294.72,"end":321.349,"text":"但是因為領銜人的代表性就像剛剛嘉賓委員有提到的他是一個代表送件但是他到底有沒有被這個所有的人授權說他可以去同意或不同意這個格式的問題我覺得這有法律上的疑義啦所以這個當然我覺得在未來尤其是就是這一條未依規定格式那個格式的那個解釋如果能夠更清楚的話那就可以讓這樣的紛爭可能會變得更少我有這樣的建議那接下來因為有時間的關係我再快速問下一個就是"},{"start":324.388,"end":351.478,"text":"這個南投的這一件事情就是說因為南投他比較早他們是議員的罷免案他們很早就送了那我有看到就是說他們在第一階段的死亡連署是零就是完全沒有但是因為這一次因為基隆的這一個這個事件讓我們看到就是說這個死亡的連署有可能是戶政人員在一開始或者民政的人員一開始幫忙剔除發生這樣的一個醜聞嘛所以我想問一下因為4月14號的時候南投議員被罷免的已經送件了"},{"start":351.818,"end":375.803,"text":"那離現在已經也查對的時間應該完成了那他們在第二階段的這個死亡的數字現在出來了嗎因為我前陣子發公文問好像南投這個的地方的委員會他們還沒有一個回沒有一個沒有一個給我們數字上的回應是這點請委員能夠諒解就是以前我們有關於委員所知的部分都會是在查對的結果經過中選會委員會所以現在還在中選會對不對"},{"start":379.064,"end":403.083,"text":"認定了之後我們就會隨著委員會紀錄公布認定了之後雖然紀錄還沒有公布但是只要是立法委員基於問政的需求來函要所知我們也都會配合目前還沒有因為地方選委會應該審查期間完了但是還在中選會認定的過程當中有一件已經是送過來了那我們就在等待"},{"start":403.723,"end":432.604,"text":"那最後一個就快速的就是公投這件事情因為公投現在已經被提了四個案件光是立法院這邊我剛剛有聽前面的質詢已經有人問就是你有回答到到底算不算重大政策的這個創製跟覆決啦這是中選會要去認定的啦那我只提醒一件事情就好就是說因為他們不管是反戒嚴還是反這個廢死這一個他們今天那個廢死跟戒嚴的狀態在台灣不存在嘛所以我有在想一件事情就是中選會有沒有機會如果說到最後這件事情真的發生的話如果今天再不能"},{"start":433.004,"end":456.011,"text":"按照法條審議這是一件事到底能不能審議這是一個爭執另外一個就是我們有沒有可能去提起確認之訴因為我認為說在這樣的一個狀況之下如果說狀態本身不存在那你要怎麼去提起這樣的一個公投這個因為時間的關係今天沒有辦法繼續詢問但我們之後可能會針對因為公投在禮拜五的時候就要來看起來他們就要闖關了那我覺得接下來中選會就會遇到這樣的事情"},{"start":456.331,"end":472.406,"text":"中選會一定會做成決定那至於司法的認定的問題中選會不是適格的原告了對 當然當然當然但是我認為說其實某種程度上面我們必須要有一個確認之訴不然的話這件事情其實會變得非常奇怪是好 那就先這樣走 謝謝好"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1161,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（12時46分）謝謝主席，有請主委。"],["主席：李主委有請。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員好。"],["沈委員伯洋：主委辛苦了。今天一整天，我看很多問題都是重複的，不過這也是沒辦法的事情，不是每個人都會去聽前面的人講了什麼。我先接續剛剛伍委員講的這一個，其實我認為是蠻重要的，因為有時候我們常常在逕付二讀的狀況之下很多東西會沒有配套措施，所以這個部分，我們當然還是會極力地再去爭取。","我今天想要問的比較偏向現在罷免干擾的態樣其實非常多，我們有稍微整理了一下，有些行政上的干擾，有場地的干涉，然後也有一些立委的施壓，甚至在質詢的時候施壓，我覺得跟中選會比較有關的應該是右上角，因為其他的部分很多可能是屬於內政部的權責。有關選委不公，比如說很短的時間內要求要寄回查詢單或者以後有可能會拖延審查的時間，或者不當的介入審查程序，我覺得這幾件事情可能都需要有關注，這個部分我也不用主委特別回答，我只是想說反正態樣就擺在那邊，我們可能要特別注意。","我今天問兩個問題就好，因為我只有5分鐘。第一個，這一次花蓮，他們在收的過程只有5個人在點，而我看也不是他們自己的問題，因為他們其實應該可以找更多人，但有些人有壓力，有壓力不敢來點，這樣也沒有辦法，所以只有5個人來點，點的時間稍微比較長一點，可能點的有超過十二個小時。他們在點的過程當中，我們就發現選罷法第八十條說，未依規定格式提出者應不予受理，這個時候就會有一點疑惑，比如像之前花蓮不是格式有問題嗎？跑掉了嘛！所以當你格式出現問題的時候，他當場可以說這一張不可以或什麼等等之類的，但有時候會有疑義，比如到底縮小、放大或者線的粗細，關於未依規定「格式」，「格式」這兩個字的解釋，是當場他就要解釋然後當場做決定，還是他要收下來之後然後開會討論？因為我們現場問的時候，他們就說他們要開會一下，但問題是收的時間就那一天，如果說他當場又要開會，假如他那天已經點了12個小時，又要開會，這個時間就拉得更長。所以我在想，因為現在陸續都一直有在送件嘛，中選會是不是有可能給地方選委會一個比較統一的指導？"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝委員的關心，我想這一次有關於不管是提案的連署，或者是連署人名冊的查對，我們的標準是訂得夠周延的，一共有三套，三個辦法提供給地方選委會來作為參考，所以我說是一套標準、一體適用，這個是沒有問題的。當然在實務的運作上，有時候會發生當事人跟我們的選務工作人員大家意見相左的情況，比如包括這一次的花蓮，在花蓮跟臺中這兩個地方都發生了一些認知的差距，但是經過溝通之後，總是有一個辦法在那個地方作為一個標準，經過溝通之後，這兩個地方的問題都解決了，我們認為這也是因為我們的辦法夠周延。而且中央跟地方之間保持密切的聯繫，中央可以做行政的指導，所以這些問題到目前為止，除了花蓮以及臺中之外，其他地方都相當的平順。"],["沈委員伯洋：我想是這樣，因為我們目前像要去看有沒有偽造、居住期間的問題，我看總共有13、14個條件嘛，對不對？這些是到時候會被剔除的連署書，這個實質的審查不可能在當場發生嘛，當場只能看未依規定格式，而以目前來講，其實我們辦公室也有發函給中選會幾次嘛，對不對？就是這個格式到底要怎麼認定，然後到最後讓他們這些團體可以用公文，可以說這是中選會相關的解釋。像剛剛主委有提到，當時可能就是雙方溝通嘛，然後可能領銜人在那邊，他們也認為確實這個格式有問題，所以這一張可能不能用，但是因為領銜人的代表性，就像剛剛佳濱委員有提到，他是代表送件，但是他到底有沒有被所有的人授權他可以去同意或不同意這個格式的問題，我覺得這個有法律上疑義啦！所以我覺得在未來，尤其是這一條未依規定格式，那個「格式」的解釋如果能夠更清楚的話，就可以讓這樣的紛爭變得更少，我有這樣的建議。","接下來，因為時間的關係，我再快速問下一個，南投的這一件事情，因為南投比較早，他們是議員的罷免案，他們很早就送了。我有看到他們在第一階段的死亡連署是零，就是完全沒有，但是這次因為基隆的這一個事件讓我們看到，死亡的連署有可能是戶政或者民政的人員一開始就幫忙剔除，發生這樣的一個醜聞。所以我想問一下，因為4月14號的時候，被罷免的南投議員已經送件了，現在查對應該也完成了，他們在第二階段的死亡的數字現在出來了嗎？因為我前陣子發公文問，好像南投地方的選委會還沒有給我們數字上的回應。"],["李主任委員進勇：是，這點請委員能夠諒解，以前我們有關於委員索資的部分都會是在查對的結果，經過中選會委員會的認定……"],["沈委員伯洋：所以現在還在中選會，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：對，認定之後，我們就會隨著委員會的紀錄，就會公布了；認定了之後，雖然紀錄還沒有公布，但是只要是立法委員基於問政的需求來函索資，我們也都會配合，目前還沒有。"],["沈委員伯洋：好，因為地方選委會應該審查期間完了，但是還在中選會認定的過程當中。"],["李主任委員進勇：有一件是已經送過來了。"],["沈委員伯洋：OK！我們就再等待。"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["沈委員伯洋：快速的請教最後一個問題，有關公投這件事情，光是立法院這邊，現在已經被提了4個公投案件，我剛剛有聽前面的質詢，已經有人詢問，就是你有回答到底算不算重大政策的創制與複決，這是中選會要去認定的，我只提醒一件事情就好，因為不管是反戒嚴，還是反廢死，今天廢死跟戒嚴的狀態，在臺灣不存在嘛！所以我有在想一件事情，就是中選會有沒有機會，如果到最後這件事情真的發生的話，按照法條審議，這是一件事情，到底能不能審議是一個爭執點，另外我們有沒有可能去提及確認之訴？因為我認為在這樣的狀況之下，如果狀態本身不存在，你要怎麼去提起這樣的公投？因為時間的關係，今天沒有辦法繼續詢問，因為這禮拜五就要進行公投表決了，看起來他們就要闖關，我覺得接下來中選會就會遇到這樣的事情。"],["李主任委員進勇：中選會一定會做成決定，至於司法的認定的問題，中選會不是適格的原告。"],["沈委員伯洋：對，當然。但是我認為某種程度上，必須要有一個確認之訴，不然的話，這件事情會變得非常奇怪。"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["沈委員伯洋：好，就先這樣，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝沈伯洋委員。","下一位請洪孟楷委員質詢、洪孟楷委員、洪孟楷委員不在。","下一位，請陳冠廷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":194,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-17","speakers":["牛煦庭","王美惠","蘇巧慧","張智倫","麥玉珍","張宏陸","黃捷","許宇甄","李柏毅","賴士葆","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","鄭天財Sra 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