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{\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 1016.768, \"end\": 1017.288, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1017.288, \"end\": 1018.009, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1018.009, \"end\": 1018.13, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 1018.13, \"end\": 1018.15, \"score\": 0.36}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,102 --> 00:00:10,589\n先請籌備處主任那這個國安局速發部衛福部先準備\n\n2\n00:00:11,274 --> 00:00:32,856\n好本期針對個資法當中特別是國人基因的部分來做討論我國精準醫療的檢驗檢體資訊外流看不見的國安風險因為個資外洩而正在發生個資被利用產業被犧牲健康被腐蝕\n\n3\n00:00:33,616 --> 00:00:47,282\n好本期針對幾個案例第一個新疆種族的滅絕的警示第二個中國自基因地區設備服務的風險第三我們中央各相關單位應作為而未作為的實際的狀態以及產業政策在行政單位缺少聯動最後本期有個具體建議\n\n4\n00:00:55,405 --> 00:01:10,758\n在具體建議當中剛才所點的幾個單位就要上來做回應第一個新疆種族滅絕的警示從2014年中共中央發起嚴厲的打擊暴力恐怖活動他建立起了新疆在教育營2017年營地\n\n5\n00:01:12,419 --> 00:01:40,941\n規模化並迅速擴大隨之建立起達到高潮2019年聯合國人權理事會發生集結的討論2020年美國國會調查報告他說了中國政府於新疆地區針對少數民族以藥物及疫苗進行新疆民族種族滅絕與絕育這樣的藥物跟醫療的疫苗是針對新疆民族的基因\n\n6\n00:01:42,386 --> 00:01:52,775\n特種他的這個民族的基因所做的藥物跟醫療來做種族的滅絕而我國國人的基因是融合了什麼原住民太平洋南島閩南\n\n7\n00:01:54,198 --> 00:02:19,080\n客家国共内战撤退后来到台湾以及新住民已经形成具有高度特色化的基因也就是说我说汉民族到底汉民族他到底汉民族就很广东北亚也是汉民族我觉得与其说汉民族比如说我们黄种人我们黄种人在中国东北亚东南亚\n\n8\n00:02:20,262 --> 00:02:33,717\n甚至上到歐美各國移民出去的所謂的黃種人其實在國人台灣國人的這樣的一個基因在我們這個國家都已經有高度特色化的基因族群\n\n9\n00:02:34,778 --> 00:02:38,380\n好那中國實施這個種族滅絕國際專家報告也講了習近平就是設計者這是2021年的報導那這個也講到這樣的新疆維吾爾族的人權是種族滅絕而且他是以這個基因來進行這個絕育跟病癮的相關的藥物跟疫苗來做的種族滅絕\n\n10\n00:02:59,409 --> 00:03:20,661\n好我們看在前幾年2023年也不過是前年現在2025年前年2023年的3月7號英國國會英國國會當中多位議員聯同世界維吾爾代表大會敦促英國政府對中國基因公司巨頭華大集團\n\n11\n00:03:22,162 --> 00:03:38,081\n這個我會特別講就是等一下各單位你要去回應的啟動了國安評估中國在這個報導我左邊這一份報告是英國議員們他們提出來的這幾個重點我畫出來中國已將基因組學列為國家安全\n\n12\n00:03:39,899 --> 00:03:59,140\n關注的領域並將遺傳數據和基因組合作為優先產業目標作為MadeinChina2025的計畫之一在國家支持下華大基因等公司已成為基因主學領域的全球參與者習近平他說了稱讚中國的生物\n\n13\n00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:15,357\n技術成就是最重要的武器這都有英文在上面再來第三個重點基因組織和基因技術的應用對國家安全經濟競爭力及數據隱私具有重大影響應被視為英國重要的國家基礎設施\n\n14\n00:04:16,838 --> 00:04:35,751\n所以我們在指他們呼籲英國國會的議員呼籲他們的政府在這個採購法案通過國會的時候努力的將中國政府有關基因設備立國BGI這樣的一個品牌從政府的採購供應鏈中移除這等一下經濟部要回應的\n\n15\n00:04:36,671 --> 00:04:58,378\n經濟部因作為而沒作為我們還敦促了政府對於就是他們講他英國政府對BGI進行全國的國家安全評估所以等下國安局要回應以確定他們從英國金融機構適應部門合約和英國各大學的研究合作是否構成國家安全挑戰英國國會已經就做這樣的一個\n\n16\n00:05:00,238 --> 00:05:05,200\n國安層級的呼籲來看中國製的基因定序設備跟服務風險來這個是中國人體基因檢測法令這是中國的法令他講到什麼基因定序儀器依靠內建工業級的電腦提供運算並具備通訊傳輸的主模資料上傳軟體下載\n\n17\n00:05:25,006 --> 00:05:46,100\n所有設備均是中國製造與生產也就是中國對他中國自己的檢測一律用中國製的好相關檢測的結果呢還要上傳專屬的雲端雲端機房我們現在嚴重性的是台灣現在等一下我會提出數據現在台灣一半以上都是中國製的檢測\n\n18\n00:05:47,961 --> 00:06:13,519\n基因檢測也好或者相關的檢測也好一半以上好他們現在是雲端就在中國台灣就是備份這是現況中國人體基因的檢測法在這個法當中他還強制喔右邊這個法令我查出來第7條我們有他的第34條講到什麼程度他們中國官方啊可以含中央地方政府可以查閱複製查封扣押有關人類的基因\n\n19\n00:06:16,241 --> 00:06:30,035\n也就是我們現在一半以上中國製的這樣的基因檢測或相關檢測機器充斥在台灣我們現在國人所有的基因數據全部也透過這樣的機制都在中國機房在中國備份在台灣好再來\n\n20\n00:06:38,804 --> 00:07:05,554\n這個呢是一個私人的食藥署這個衛福部核准的私人的實驗室這樣的資料我都有提供給衛福部好這個資料當中中間這一個這個MGI這是華大設備這個資料詳細的部分我可以再提供但在衛福部這邊我早就提供了我說這個是你們核定的私人的實驗室用的是次世代定序的這樣的一個技術項目是中國製的我也給他了\n\n21\n00:07:08,075 --> 00:07:14,498\n好那你知道我們呢他怎麼做呢我們缺乏聯動什麼樣的聯動法那這個衛福部在精準醫療必須的次世代分子的檢測上漏洞百出就本席情資的掌握中國這個分子檢驗設備是以非常低的金額他怎麼跟我們所有的實驗室公司力實驗各公司力的醫院公司力的大學講說你都不用錢我們這裡設備都提供給你\n\n22\n00:07:37,230 --> 00:07:53,656\n免費提供給業者使用並提供醫療院所的服務業者在賺取健保支出的情況之下這個做基因檢測是政府有支持這個健保點數的將國人的基因資料資訊大量的洩漏給中國特定的團體\n\n23\n00:07:54,776 --> 00:08:19,428\n我國從2017年起推動了尤其我本身來自高雄南部智慧生醫產業聚落推動計畫本期大力支持以及你們接續要推動的南部精準健康產業聚落推動計畫本能更是樂見其成重點在我高雄陸主希望導入的就是ICT這個資通訊的技術發展精準健康產業好這樣的政策\n\n24\n00:08:20,308 --> 00:08:25,592\n我們國發會主導的5加2國發會跟你們有關係這個是你們現在籌備處5加2的產業發展計畫就有包含生醫產業及精準醫療當中的癌醫治療機會使用到基因檢測設備其對國人基因各自保護確實是產生了以下的問題什麼問題呢第一個\n\n25\n00:08:43,463 --> 00:08:52,450\n相關跨部會在產業政策上並未做聯動什麼意思我告訴了衛福部衛福部說他就附了一個公文公文就給了經濟部告訴經濟部說你禁止進口喔經濟部有沒有作為完全沒作為\n\n26\n00:08:58,454 --> 00:09:01,055\n好那如果說要下去測長了衛福部又說話了啊這個雲端的技術我們不太懂這個是屬於速發不管的所以相關跨部會光是在產業政策上並會做聯動協作所以很明顯的行政單位漠視腹踢皮球我現在講的是基因檢測這件事情\n\n27\n00:09:18,023 --> 00:09:25,189\n第二個扼殺國內生醫生技產業的發展我國人體基因缺乏完整的收集每一個實驗室可能幾千筆可能多著了不起幾萬筆所以我們沒有一個這個整個基因檢測如果它是一個國安議題我們台灣國人的基因要不要整體的數據的完整的收集在哪一個單位它是屬於公開還不公開\n\n28\n00:09:44,443 --> 00:09:48,985\n那誰要來做完整那要做什麼用因為有了數據規模我就可以導入預防醫學也可以導入在後續的精準治療譬如說哪些基因的人他特別會有糖尿病的症狀哪些基因的人特別有腎臟病的症狀哪些基因的人都可能會有失智症的症狀這都要長期基因規模才有可能對台灣2300萬人民以及未來的新生兒等等我們可以啟動早期預防\n\n29\n00:10:13,476 --> 00:10:30,911\n甚至後續的癌症基因的分子檢測我們更能夠導入精準治療所以這是二殺國內生技第三個健保精準醫療的醫療準確性就本席了解雖然我國已經要進入到精準醫療中國自分子檢驗設備相較於國際先進的設備不管是美國日本德國\n\n30\n00:10:37,117 --> 00:10:52,077\n他的準確度是較低的這是業界給我的訊息那你們可以去查更恍若我健保的資源是漸漸挹注解放軍基石的企業現在從事半數以上\n\n31\n00:10:52,978 --> 00:10:55,319\n檢測機器都在我們國內還用我們的健保資源去檢測本席這邊沒有苛責任何的單位我希望能夠喚起我們本國在國安單位跟相關部會的重視而且是要積極的處理機應外洩國安形成危機民間的實驗室\n\n32\n00:11:12,970 --> 00:11:34,604\n大學實驗室大量使用中國的設備承接國內公私立大公私立大小醫療機構我講到公私立大小醫療機構什麼意思因為我們都是委外連公立的醫療也是委外給民間或公立的醫療的實驗室而且這不僅重大疾病甚至產檢\n\n33\n00:11:36,165 --> 00:11:51,637\n我們的罕見疾病都要做到檢測啊它有些是基因檢測有些是一般的檢測取得國人巨量基因的資訊將協助中國可能對我國形成生物戰的威脅形成嚴重的國安漏洞好國安局請上來衛福部抒發部請上來經濟部請上來\n\n34\n00:11:55,180 --> 00:12:06,453\n基於國家安全及啊主席對不起特別有請國安局衛福部速發部還有經濟部謝謝主席好來林委員剛所點到的部會請到備舉行台\n\n35\n00:12:09,571 --> 00:12:24,954\n那對於籌備處目前你們只做法令的解釋但是未來如果你成為獨立機關的時候在相關我看你們這邊來的有法制事務組查核規劃組綜合企劃組我不曉得未來的執行單位你要怎麼處理\n\n36\n00:12:25,695 --> 00:12:52,232\n但是至少現在還是可以做一些事情國安局在今天本席要求在國個資法中將國人基因視為特種個資我現在講的都是個資法現有的規定建起參照英國國會及各先進國家在保護他們國人基因的作為上評估提升為國安層級的議題並採取對應的作為這是第一個本席的要求第二個衛福部主責接同速發部三個月內\n\n37\n00:12:53,172 --> 00:13:13,168\n完成查查依特管法特管法的管轄範圍業務你的特管法就已經包括私立的我確認三公私立醫院公私立大學實驗室公私立實驗室的業者在病歷及檢測資料事後外流至境外雲端儲存及資料安全狀況並依法辦理特管法就已經有規定了如果是\n\n38\n00:13:20,333 --> 00:13:40,707\n這個有外流到境外的部分你是可以停業的停止使用還甚至可以停業這特管法就規定了好第三個經濟部一衛福部的公函衛福部已經給你們公函了一個月內完成限制中國自次世代地序儀含四季及周邊設備進口作業的相關的法規的完備好請回應來國安局\n\n39\n00:13:50,242 --> 00:14:05,689\n因為本局是主管國家安全情報相關工作那對於有關於涉及到對於本局本國家的有相關的國安威脅的相關的情訊我們都會有所展望並且提供給相關的機關做參考以上報告\n\n40\n00:14:06,889 --> 00:14:23,578\n所以針對這個議題國人的這個特種個資的部分你們要不要帶回去研議我只請你們研議喔我還沒說你們那個我已經很客氣了這樣子剛才的爬梳您這樣子要不要帶回去研議一下正式的提案在你們的局本部來做討論\n\n41\n00:14:25,779 --> 00:14:41,651\n有關於委員的建議我們會進行相關的我會帶回去給因為是國安所以我也不要求你在這邊做相關什麼的回應我不會像衛福部或是外部這麼的明確我相信我還是尊重國安內部的機制你應該啟動的一個國家層級是否要這樣所以在這邊請你帶回去\n\n42\n00:14:47,575 --> 00:15:06,613\n好衛福部主責接同速發布這就是特管法規定的了三個月內完成這些公私立醫院公私立大學實驗室公私立實驗室業者在病例檢測資料事後外流至境外雲端儲存及資料安全的狀態可以處理嗎衛福部接同速發布來衛福部\n\n43\n00:15:08,735 --> 00:15:24,556\n衛生部你們來的醫事師這應該像醫事師來做你們因為有資訊處雖然關節比較大但是主責上應該是醫事師檢任記證社會保險師林科長是科長來醫事師回應一下\n\n44\n00:15:26,496 --> 00:15:54,338\n委員好那針對於人體資料庫我們是這些相關的傳輸我們是有這個人體這個生物資料庫的這個管理條例那我們相關的輸出都會依條例他要報我們申請核准才可以去做輸出這個這個簡記這個我從去年開始我就關心了我不是現在才關心只是你們毫無動作我現在是依客管法請你們三個月完成你現在公立的醫院有處理\n\n45\n00:15:55,999 --> 00:16:16,798\n公立的實驗室有沒有處理我不曉得所以我說公私立本身你特管法就包括私立的醫療院所也有包括私立的大學的實驗室私立的實驗室本身特管法就要求了是你不作為喔所以我三個月內要求你查處而且我說你接同書發布你就沒有意見了可以嗎\n\n46\n00:16:20,072 --> 00:16:39,281\n好謝委員我們會盡快去處理好謝謝好經濟部一個月內完成限制中國製你總是對現有的狀況他們去做查你對新的你不能再進啊你的相關的這個限制的中國製製的這個次世代地區你的進口作業相關的法規一個月完成可以嗎\n\n47\n00:16:40,507 --> 00:16:58,150\n關於委員的要求我們會帶回去給貿易署做相關的評估我所謂完備我可以接受你不用大公告但是你的完備的所有的文字要做公告前的文字一個月內完成可以嗎我們會帶回去好謝謝以上\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3102\t10589\t先請籌備處主任那這個國安局速發部衛福部先準備\n11274\t32856\t好本期針對個資法當中特別是國人基因的部分來做討論我國精準醫療的檢驗檢體資訊外流看不見的國安風險因為個資外洩而正在發生個資被利用產業被犧牲健康被腐蝕\n33616\t47282\t好本期針對幾個案例第一個新疆種族的滅絕的警示第二個中國自基因地區設備服務的風險第三我們中央各相關單位應作為而未作為的實際的狀態以及產業政策在行政單位缺少聯動最後本期有個具體建議\n55405\t70758\t在具體建議當中剛才所點的幾個單位就要上來做回應第一個新疆種族滅絕的警示從2014年中共中央發起嚴厲的打擊暴力恐怖活動他建立起了新疆在教育營2017年營地\n72419\t100941\t規模化並迅速擴大隨之建立起達到高潮2019年聯合國人權理事會發生集結的討論2020年美國國會調查報告他說了中國政府於新疆地區針對少數民族以藥物及疫苗進行新疆民族種族滅絕與絕育這樣的藥物跟醫療的疫苗是針對新疆民族的基因\n102386\t112775\t特種他的這個民族的基因所做的藥物跟醫療來做種族的滅絕而我國國人的基因是融合了什麼原住民太平洋南島閩南\n114198\t139080\t客家国共内战撤退后来到台湾以及新住民已经形成具有高度特色化的基因也就是说我说汉民族到底汉民族他到底汉民族就很广东北亚也是汉民族我觉得与其说汉民族比如说我们黄种人我们黄种人在中国东北亚东南亚\n140262\t153717\t甚至上到歐美各國移民出去的所謂的黃種人其實在國人台灣國人的這樣的一個基因在我們這個國家都已經有高度特色化的基因族群\n154778\t158380\t好 那中國實施這個種族滅絕 國際專家報告也講了習近平就是設計者 這是2021年的報導那這個也講到這樣的新疆維吾爾族的人權是種族滅絕而且他是以這個基因來進行這個絕育跟病癮的相關的藥物跟疫苗來做的種族滅絕\n179409\t200661\t好我們看在前幾年2023年也不過是前年現在2025年前年2023年的3月7號英國國會英國國會當中多位議員聯同世界維吾爾代表大會敦促英國政府對中國基因公司巨頭華大集團\n202162\t218081\t這個我會特別講就是等一下各單位你要去回應的啟動了國安評估中國在這個報導我左邊這一份報告是英國議員們他們提出來的這幾個重點我畫出來中國已將基因組學列為國家安全\n219899\t239140\t關注的領域並將遺傳數據和基因組合作為優先產業目標作為Made in China 2025的計畫之一在國家支持下華大基因等公司已成為基因主學領域的全球參與者習近平他說了稱讚中國的生物\n239560\t255357\t技術成就是最重要的武器這都有英文在上面再來第三個重點基因組織和基因技術的應用對國家安全經濟競爭力及數據隱私具有重大影響應被視為英國重要的國家基礎設施\n256838\t275751\t所以我們在指他們呼籲英國國會的議員呼籲他們的政府在這個採購法案通過國會的時候努力的將中國政府有關基因設備立國BGI這樣的一個品牌從政府的採購供應鏈中移除這等一下經濟部要回應的\n276671\t298378\t經濟部因作為而沒作為我們還敦促了政府對於就是他們講他英國政府對BGI進行全國的國家安全評估所以等下國安局要回應以確定他們從英國金融機構適應部門合約和英國各大學的研究合作是否構成國家安全挑戰英國國會已經就做這樣的一個\n300238\t305200\t國安層級的呼籲來看中國製的基因定序設備跟服務風險來這個是中國人體基因檢測法令這是中國的法令他講到什麼基因定序儀器依靠內建工業級的電腦提供運算並具備通訊傳輸的主模資料上傳軟體下載\n325006\t346100\t所有設備均是中國製造與生產也就是中國對他中國自己的檢測一律用中國製的好相關檢測的結果呢還要上傳專屬的雲端雲端機房我們現在嚴重性的是台灣現在等一下我會提出數據現在台灣一半以上都是中國製的檢測\n347961\t373519\t基因檢測也好或者相關的檢測也好一半以上好他們現在是雲端就在中國台灣就是備份這是現況中國人體基因的檢測法在這個法當中他還強制喔右邊這個法令我查出來第7條我們有他的第34條講到什麼程度他們中國官方啊可以含中央地方政府可以查閱複製查封扣押有關人類的基因\n376241\t390035\t也就是我們現在一半以上中國製的這樣的基因檢測或相關檢測機器充斥在台灣我們現在國人所有的基因數據全部也透過這樣的機制都在中國機房在中國備份在台灣好再來\n398804\t425554\t這個呢是一個私人的食藥署這個衛福部核准的私人的實驗室這樣的資料我都有提供給衛福部好這個資料當中中間這一個這個MGI這是華大設備這個資料詳細的部分我可以再提供但在衛福部這邊我早就提供了我說這個是你們核定的私人的實驗室用的是次世代定序的這樣的一個技術項目是中國製的我也給他了\n428075\t434498\t好那你知道我們呢他怎麼做呢我們缺乏聯動什麼樣的聯動法那這個衛福部在精準醫療必須的次世代分子的檢測上漏洞百出就本席情資的掌握中國這個分子檢驗設備是以非常低的金額他怎麼跟我們所有的實驗室公司力實驗各公司力的醫院公司力的大學講說你都不用錢我們這裡設備都提供給你\n457230\t473656\t免費提供給業者使用並提供醫療院所的服務業者在賺取健保支出的情況之下這個做基因檢測是政府有支持這個健保點數的將國人的基因資料資訊大量的洩漏給中國特定的團體\n474776\t499428\t我國從2017年起推動了 尤其我本身來自高雄南部智慧生醫產業聚落推動計畫 本期大力支持以及你們接續要推動的南部精準健康產業聚落推動計畫本能更是樂見其成 重點在我高雄陸主希望導入的就是ICT 這個資通訊的技術發展精準健康產業好 這樣的政策\n500308\t505592\t我們國發會主導的5加2 國發會跟你們有關係這個是你們現在籌備處 5加2的產業發展計畫就有包含生醫產業及精準醫療當中的癌醫治療機會使用到基因檢測設備 其對國人基因各自保護確實是產生了以下的問題 什麼問題呢 第一個\n523463\t532450\t相關跨部會在產業政策上並未做聯動 什麼意思 我告訴了衛福部 衛福部說他就附了一個公文公文就給了經濟部 告訴經濟部說你禁止進口喔經濟部有沒有作為 完全沒作為\n538454\t541055\t好那如果說要下去測長了衛福部又說話了啊這個雲端的技術我們不太懂這個是屬於速發不管的所以相關跨部會光是在產業政策上並會做聯動協作所以很明顯的行政單位漠視腹踢皮球我現在講的是基因檢測這件事情\n558023\t565189\t第二個 扼殺國內生醫生技產業的發展我國人體基因缺乏完整的收集每一個實驗室可能幾千筆可能多著了不起幾萬筆所以我們沒有一個這個整個基因檢測如果它是一個國安議題我們台灣國人的基因要不要整體的數據的完整的收集在哪一個單位它是屬於公開還不公開\n584443\t588985\t那誰要來做完整 那要做什麼用因為有了數據規模 我就可以導入預防醫學也可以導入在後續的精準治療譬如說哪些基因的人他特別會有糖尿病的症狀哪些基因的人特別有腎臟病的症狀哪些基因的人都可能會有失智症的症狀這都要長期基因規模才有可能對台灣2300萬人民以及未來的新生兒等等我們可以啟動早期預防\n613476\t630911\t甚至後續的癌症基因的分子檢測我們更能夠導入精準治療所以這是二殺國內生技第三個健保精準醫療的醫療準確性就本席了解雖然我國已經要進入到精準醫療中國自分子檢驗設備相較於國際先進的設備不管是美國 日本 德國\n637117\t652077\t他的準確度是較低的這是業界給我的訊息那你們可以去查更恍若我健保的資源是漸漸挹注解放軍基石的企業現在從事半數以上\n652978\t655319\t檢測機器都在我們國內還用我們的健保資源去檢測本席這邊沒有苛責任何的單位我希望能夠喚起我們本國在國安單位跟相關部會的重視而且是要積極的處理機應外洩國安形成危機民間的實驗室\n672970\t694604\t大學實驗室大量使用中國的設備承接國內公私立大公私立大小醫療機構我講到公私立大小醫療機構什麼意思因為我們都是委外連公立的醫療也是委外給民間或公立的醫療的實驗室而且這不僅重大疾病甚至產檢\n696165\t711637\t我們的罕見疾病都要做到檢測啊它有些是基因檢測有些是一般的檢測取得國人巨量基因的資訊將協助中國可能對我國形成生物戰的威脅形成嚴重的國安漏洞好國安局請上來衛福部抒發部請上來經濟部請上來\n715180\t726453\t基於國家安全及 啊 主席對不起 特別有請國安局衛福部 速發部 還有經濟部 謝謝主席好 來 林委員剛所點到的部會 請到備舉行台\n729571\t744954\t那對於籌備處目前你們只做法令的解釋但是未來如果你成為獨立機關的時候在相關我看你們這邊來的有法制事務組 查核規劃組 綜合企劃組我不曉得未來的執行單位你要怎麼處理\n745695\t772232\t但是至少現在還是可以做一些事情國安局在今天本席要求在國個資法中將國人基因視為特種個資我現在講的都是個資法現有的規定建起參照英國國會及各先進國家在保護他們國人基因的作為上評估提升為國安層級的議題並採取對應的作為這是第一個本席的要求第二個衛福部主責接同速發部三個月內\n773172\t793168\t完成查查依特管法特管法的管轄範圍業務你的特管法就已經包括私立的我確認三公私立醫院公私立大學實驗室公私立實驗室的業者在病歷及檢測資料事後外流至境外雲端儲存及資料安全狀況並依法辦理特管法就已經有規定了如果是\n800333\t820707\t這個有外流到境外的部分你是可以停業的停止使用還甚至可以停業這特管法就規定了好 第三個經濟部一 衛福部的公函衛福部已經給你們公函了一個月內完成限制中國自次世代地序儀含四季及周邊設備進口作業的相關的法規的完備好 請回應來 國安局\n830242\t845689\t因為本局是主管國家安全情報相關工作那對於有關於涉及到對於本局本國家的有相關的國安威脅的相關的情訊我們都會有所展望並且提供給相關的機關做參考以上報告\n846889\t863578\t所以針對這個議題國人的這個特種個資的部分你們要不要帶回去研議我只請你們研議喔我還沒說你們那個我已經很客氣了這樣子剛才的爬梳您這樣子要不要帶回去研議一下正式的提案在你們的局本部來做討論\n865779\t881651\t有關於委員的建議我們會進行相關的我會帶回去給因為是國安所以我也不要求你在這邊做相關什麼的回應我不會像衛福部或是外部這麼的明確我相信我還是尊重國安內部的機制你應該啟動的一個國家層級是否要這樣所以在這邊請你帶回去\n887575\t906613\t好 衛福部主責接同速發布 這就是特管法規定的了三個月內完成這些公私立醫院 公私立大學實驗室公私立實驗室業者在病例檢測資料事後外流至境外雲端儲存及資料安全的狀態可以處理嗎 衛福部接同速發布 來 衛福部\n908735\t924556\t衛生部你們來的醫事師這應該像醫事師來做你們因為有資訊處雖然關節比較大但是主責上應該是醫事師檢任記證社會保險師林科長是科長來醫事師回應一下\n926496\t954338\t委員好 那針對於人體資料庫我們是這些相關的傳輸我們是有這個人體這個生物資料庫的這個管理條例那我們相關的輸出都會依條例他要報我們申請核准才可以去做輸出這個這個簡記這個我從去年開始我就關心了我不是現在才關心只是你們毫無動作我現在是依客管法請你們三個月完成你現在公立的醫院有處理\n955999\t976798\t公立的實驗室有沒有處理 我不曉得所以我說公 私立 本身你特管法就包括私立的醫療院所 也有包括私立的大學的實驗室私立的實驗室本身特管法就要求了是你不作為喔所以我三個月內要求你查處 而且我說你接同書發布 你就沒有意見了可以嗎\n980072\t999281\t好 謝委員我們會盡快去處理好 謝謝 好 經濟部一個月內完成 限制中國製 你總是對現有的狀況他們去做查你對新的你不能再進啊你的相關的這個限制的中國製製的這個次世代地區你的進口作業相關的法規一個月完成 可以嗎\n1000507\t1018150\t關於委員的要求我們會帶回去給貿易署做相關的評估我所謂完備我可以接受你不用大公告但是你的完備的所有的文字要做公告前的文字一個月內完成可以嗎我們會帶回去好 謝謝 以上\n","txt":"先請籌備處主任那這個國安局速發部衛福部先準備\n好本期針對個資法當中特別是國人基因的部分來做討論我國精準醫療的檢驗檢體資訊外流看不見的國安風險因為個資外洩而正在發生個資被利用產業被犧牲健康被腐蝕\n好本期針對幾個案例第一個新疆種族的滅絕的警示第二個中國自基因地區設備服務的風險第三我們中央各相關單位應作為而未作為的實際的狀態以及產業政策在行政單位缺少聯動最後本期有個具體建議\n在具體建議當中剛才所點的幾個單位就要上來做回應第一個新疆種族滅絕的警示從2014年中共中央發起嚴厲的打擊暴力恐怖活動他建立起了新疆在教育營2017年營地\n規模化並迅速擴大隨之建立起達到高潮2019年聯合國人權理事會發生集結的討論2020年美國國會調查報告他說了中國政府於新疆地區針對少數民族以藥物及疫苗進行新疆民族種族滅絕與絕育這樣的藥物跟醫療的疫苗是針對新疆民族的基因\n特種他的這個民族的基因所做的藥物跟醫療來做種族的滅絕而我國國人的基因是融合了什麼原住民太平洋南島閩南\n客家国共内战撤退后来到台湾以及新住民已经形成具有高度特色化的基因也就是说我说汉民族到底汉民族他到底汉民族就很广东北亚也是汉民族我觉得与其说汉民族比如说我们黄种人我们黄种人在中国东北亚东南亚\n甚至上到歐美各國移民出去的所謂的黃種人其實在國人台灣國人的這樣的一個基因在我們這個國家都已經有高度特色化的基因族群\n好 那中國實施這個種族滅絕 國際專家報告也講了習近平就是設計者 這是2021年的報導那這個也講到這樣的新疆維吾爾族的人權是種族滅絕而且他是以這個基因來進行這個絕育跟病癮的相關的藥物跟疫苗來做的種族滅絕\n好我們看在前幾年2023年也不過是前年現在2025年前年2023年的3月7號英國國會英國國會當中多位議員聯同世界維吾爾代表大會敦促英國政府對中國基因公司巨頭華大集團\n這個我會特別講就是等一下各單位你要去回應的啟動了國安評估中國在這個報導我左邊這一份報告是英國議員們他們提出來的這幾個重點我畫出來中國已將基因組學列為國家安全\n關注的領域並將遺傳數據和基因組合作為優先產業目標作為Made in China 2025的計畫之一在國家支持下華大基因等公司已成為基因主學領域的全球參與者習近平他說了稱讚中國的生物\n技術成就是最重要的武器這都有英文在上面再來第三個重點基因組織和基因技術的應用對國家安全經濟競爭力及數據隱私具有重大影響應被視為英國重要的國家基礎設施\n所以我們在指他們呼籲英國國會的議員呼籲他們的政府在這個採購法案通過國會的時候努力的將中國政府有關基因設備立國BGI這樣的一個品牌從政府的採購供應鏈中移除這等一下經濟部要回應的\n經濟部因作為而沒作為我們還敦促了政府對於就是他們講他英國政府對BGI進行全國的國家安全評估所以等下國安局要回應以確定他們從英國金融機構適應部門合約和英國各大學的研究合作是否構成國家安全挑戰英國國會已經就做這樣的一個\n國安層級的呼籲來看中國製的基因定序設備跟服務風險來這個是中國人體基因檢測法令這是中國的法令他講到什麼基因定序儀器依靠內建工業級的電腦提供運算並具備通訊傳輸的主模資料上傳軟體下載\n所有設備均是中國製造與生產也就是中國對他中國自己的檢測一律用中國製的好相關檢測的結果呢還要上傳專屬的雲端雲端機房我們現在嚴重性的是台灣現在等一下我會提出數據現在台灣一半以上都是中國製的檢測\n基因檢測也好或者相關的檢測也好一半以上好他們現在是雲端就在中國台灣就是備份這是現況中國人體基因的檢測法在這個法當中他還強制喔右邊這個法令我查出來第7條我們有他的第34條講到什麼程度他們中國官方啊可以含中央地方政府可以查閱複製查封扣押有關人類的基因\n也就是我們現在一半以上中國製的這樣的基因檢測或相關檢測機器充斥在台灣我們現在國人所有的基因數據全部也透過這樣的機制都在中國機房在中國備份在台灣好再來\n這個呢是一個私人的食藥署這個衛福部核准的私人的實驗室這樣的資料我都有提供給衛福部好這個資料當中中間這一個這個MGI這是華大設備這個資料詳細的部分我可以再提供但在衛福部這邊我早就提供了我說這個是你們核定的私人的實驗室用的是次世代定序的這樣的一個技術項目是中國製的我也給他了\n好那你知道我們呢他怎麼做呢我們缺乏聯動什麼樣的聯動法那這個衛福部在精準醫療必須的次世代分子的檢測上漏洞百出就本席情資的掌握中國這個分子檢驗設備是以非常低的金額他怎麼跟我們所有的實驗室公司力實驗各公司力的醫院公司力的大學講說你都不用錢我們這裡設備都提供給你\n免費提供給業者使用並提供醫療院所的服務業者在賺取健保支出的情況之下這個做基因檢測是政府有支持這個健保點數的將國人的基因資料資訊大量的洩漏給中國特定的團體\n我國從2017年起推動了 尤其我本身來自高雄南部智慧生醫產業聚落推動計畫 本期大力支持以及你們接續要推動的南部精準健康產業聚落推動計畫本能更是樂見其成 重點在我高雄陸主希望導入的就是ICT 這個資通訊的技術發展精準健康產業好 這樣的政策\n我們國發會主導的5加2 國發會跟你們有關係這個是你們現在籌備處 5加2的產業發展計畫就有包含生醫產業及精準醫療當中的癌醫治療機會使用到基因檢測設備 其對國人基因各自保護確實是產生了以下的問題 什麼問題呢 第一個\n相關跨部會在產業政策上並未做聯動 什麼意思 我告訴了衛福部 衛福部說他就附了一個公文公文就給了經濟部 告訴經濟部說你禁止進口喔經濟部有沒有作為 完全沒作為\n好那如果說要下去測長了衛福部又說話了啊這個雲端的技術我們不太懂這個是屬於速發不管的所以相關跨部會光是在產業政策上並會做聯動協作所以很明顯的行政單位漠視腹踢皮球我現在講的是基因檢測這件事情\n第二個 扼殺國內生醫生技產業的發展我國人體基因缺乏完整的收集每一個實驗室可能幾千筆可能多著了不起幾萬筆所以我們沒有一個這個整個基因檢測如果它是一個國安議題我們台灣國人的基因要不要整體的數據的完整的收集在哪一個單位它是屬於公開還不公開\n那誰要來做完整 那要做什麼用因為有了數據規模 我就可以導入預防醫學也可以導入在後續的精準治療譬如說哪些基因的人他特別會有糖尿病的症狀哪些基因的人特別有腎臟病的症狀哪些基因的人都可能會有失智症的症狀這都要長期基因規模才有可能對台灣2300萬人民以及未來的新生兒等等我們可以啟動早期預防\n甚至後續的癌症基因的分子檢測我們更能夠導入精準治療所以這是二殺國內生技第三個健保精準醫療的醫療準確性就本席了解雖然我國已經要進入到精準醫療中國自分子檢驗設備相較於國際先進的設備不管是美國 日本 德國\n他的準確度是較低的這是業界給我的訊息那你們可以去查更恍若我健保的資源是漸漸挹注解放軍基石的企業現在從事半數以上\n檢測機器都在我們國內還用我們的健保資源去檢測本席這邊沒有苛責任何的單位我希望能夠喚起我們本國在國安單位跟相關部會的重視而且是要積極的處理機應外洩國安形成危機民間的實驗室\n大學實驗室大量使用中國的設備承接國內公私立大公私立大小醫療機構我講到公私立大小醫療機構什麼意思因為我們都是委外連公立的醫療也是委外給民間或公立的醫療的實驗室而且這不僅重大疾病甚至產檢\n我們的罕見疾病都要做到檢測啊它有些是基因檢測有些是一般的檢測取得國人巨量基因的資訊將協助中國可能對我國形成生物戰的威脅形成嚴重的國安漏洞好國安局請上來衛福部抒發部請上來經濟部請上來\n基於國家安全及 啊 主席對不起 特別有請國安局衛福部 速發部 還有經濟部 謝謝主席好 來 林委員剛所點到的部會 請到備舉行台\n那對於籌備處目前你們只做法令的解釋但是未來如果你成為獨立機關的時候在相關我看你們這邊來的有法制事務組 查核規劃組 綜合企劃組我不曉得未來的執行單位你要怎麼處理\n但是至少現在還是可以做一些事情國安局在今天本席要求在國個資法中將國人基因視為特種個資我現在講的都是個資法現有的規定建起參照英國國會及各先進國家在保護他們國人基因的作為上評估提升為國安層級的議題並採取對應的作為這是第一個本席的要求第二個衛福部主責接同速發部三個月內\n完成查查依特管法特管法的管轄範圍業務你的特管法就已經包括私立的我確認三公私立醫院公私立大學實驗室公私立實驗室的業者在病歷及檢測資料事後外流至境外雲端儲存及資料安全狀況並依法辦理特管法就已經有規定了如果是\n這個有外流到境外的部分你是可以停業的停止使用還甚至可以停業這特管法就規定了好 第三個經濟部一 衛福部的公函衛福部已經給你們公函了一個月內完成限制中國自次世代地序儀含四季及周邊設備進口作業的相關的法規的完備好 請回應來 國安局\n因為本局是主管國家安全情報相關工作那對於有關於涉及到對於本局本國家的有相關的國安威脅的相關的情訊我們都會有所展望並且提供給相關的機關做參考以上報告\n所以針對這個議題國人的這個特種個資的部分你們要不要帶回去研議我只請你們研議喔我還沒說你們那個我已經很客氣了這樣子剛才的爬梳您這樣子要不要帶回去研議一下正式的提案在你們的局本部來做討論\n有關於委員的建議我們會進行相關的我會帶回去給因為是國安所以我也不要求你在這邊做相關什麼的回應我不會像衛福部或是外部這麼的明確我相信我還是尊重國安內部的機制你應該啟動的一個國家層級是否要這樣所以在這邊請你帶回去\n好 衛福部主責接同速發布 這就是特管法規定的了三個月內完成這些公私立醫院 公私立大學實驗室公私立實驗室業者在病例檢測資料事後外流至境外雲端儲存及資料安全的狀態可以處理嗎 衛福部接同速發布 來 衛福部\n衛生部你們來的醫事師這應該像醫事師來做你們因為有資訊處雖然關節比較大但是主責上應該是醫事師檢任記證社會保險師林科長是科長來醫事師回應一下\n委員好 那針對於人體資料庫我們是這些相關的傳輸我們是有這個人體這個生物資料庫的這個管理條例那我們相關的輸出都會依條例他要報我們申請核准才可以去做輸出這個這個簡記這個我從去年開始我就關心了我不是現在才關心只是你們毫無動作我現在是依客管法請你們三個月完成你現在公立的醫院有處理\n公立的實驗室有沒有處理 我不曉得所以我說公 私立 本身你特管法就包括私立的醫療院所 也有包括私立的大學的實驗室私立的實驗室本身特管法就要求了是你不作為喔所以我三個月內要求你查處 而且我說你接同書發布 你就沒有意見了可以嗎\n好 謝委員我們會盡快去處理好 謝謝 好 經濟部一個月內完成 限制中國製 你總是對現有的狀況他們去做查你對新的你不能再進啊你的相關的這個限制的中國製製的這個次世代地區你的進口作業相關的法規一個月完成 可以嗎\n關於委員的要求我們會帶回去給貿易署做相關的評估我所謂完備我可以接受你不用大公告但是你的完備的所有的文字要做公告前的文字一個月內完成可以嗎我們會帶回去好 謝謝 以上\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.102 --> 00:10.589\n先請籌備處主任那這個國安局速發部衛福部先準備\n\n00:11.274 --> 00:32.856\n好本期針對個資法當中特別是國人基因的部分來做討論我國精準醫療的檢驗檢體資訊外流看不見的國安風險因為個資外洩而正在發生個資被利用產業被犧牲健康被腐蝕\n\n00:33.616 --> 00:47.282\n好本期針對幾個案例第一個新疆種族的滅絕的警示第二個中國自基因地區設備服務的風險第三我們中央各相關單位應作為而未作為的實際的狀態以及產業政策在行政單位缺少聯動最後本期有個具體建議\n\n00:55.405 --> 01:10.758\n在具體建議當中剛才所點的幾個單位就要上來做回應第一個新疆種族滅絕的警示從2014年中共中央發起嚴厲的打擊暴力恐怖活動他建立起了新疆在教育營2017年營地\n\n01:12.419 --> 01:40.941\n規模化並迅速擴大隨之建立起達到高潮2019年聯合國人權理事會發生集結的討論2020年美國國會調查報告他說了中國政府於新疆地區針對少數民族以藥物及疫苗進行新疆民族種族滅絕與絕育這樣的藥物跟醫療的疫苗是針對新疆民族的基因\n\n01:42.386 --> 01:52.775\n特種他的這個民族的基因所做的藥物跟醫療來做種族的滅絕而我國國人的基因是融合了什麼原住民太平洋南島閩南\n\n01:54.198 --> 02:19.080\n客家国共内战撤退后来到台湾以及新住民已经形成具有高度特色化的基因也就是说我说汉民族到底汉民族他到底汉民族就很广东北亚也是汉民族我觉得与其说汉民族比如说我们黄种人我们黄种人在中国东北亚东南亚\n\n02:20.262 --> 02:33.717\n甚至上到歐美各國移民出去的所謂的黃種人其實在國人台灣國人的這樣的一個基因在我們這個國家都已經有高度特色化的基因族群\n\n02:34.778 --> 02:38.380\n好那中國實施這個種族滅絕國際專家報告也講了習近平就是設計者這是2021年的報導那這個也講到這樣的新疆維吾爾族的人權是種族滅絕而且他是以這個基因來進行這個絕育跟病癮的相關的藥物跟疫苗來做的種族滅絕\n\n02:59.409 --> 03:20.661\n好我們看在前幾年2023年也不過是前年現在2025年前年2023年的3月7號英國國會英國國會當中多位議員聯同世界維吾爾代表大會敦促英國政府對中國基因公司巨頭華大集團\n\n03:22.162 --> 03:38.081\n這個我會特別講就是等一下各單位你要去回應的啟動了國安評估中國在這個報導我左邊這一份報告是英國議員們他們提出來的這幾個重點我畫出來中國已將基因組學列為國家安全\n\n03:39.899 --> 03:59.140\n關注的領域並將遺傳數據和基因組合作為優先產業目標作為MadeinChina2025的計畫之一在國家支持下華大基因等公司已成為基因主學領域的全球參與者習近平他說了稱讚中國的生物\n\n03:59.560 --> 04:15.357\n技術成就是最重要的武器這都有英文在上面再來第三個重點基因組織和基因技術的應用對國家安全經濟競爭力及數據隱私具有重大影響應被視為英國重要的國家基礎設施\n\n04:16.838 --> 04:35.751\n所以我們在指他們呼籲英國國會的議員呼籲他們的政府在這個採購法案通過國會的時候努力的將中國政府有關基因設備立國BGI這樣的一個品牌從政府的採購供應鏈中移除這等一下經濟部要回應的\n\n04:36.671 --> 04:58.378\n經濟部因作為而沒作為我們還敦促了政府對於就是他們講他英國政府對BGI進行全國的國家安全評估所以等下國安局要回應以確定他們從英國金融機構適應部門合約和英國各大學的研究合作是否構成國家安全挑戰英國國會已經就做這樣的一個\n\n05:00.238 --> 05:05.200\n國安層級的呼籲來看中國製的基因定序設備跟服務風險來這個是中國人體基因檢測法令這是中國的法令他講到什麼基因定序儀器依靠內建工業級的電腦提供運算並具備通訊傳輸的主模資料上傳軟體下載\n\n05:25.006 --> 05:46.100\n所有設備均是中國製造與生產也就是中國對他中國自己的檢測一律用中國製的好相關檢測的結果呢還要上傳專屬的雲端雲端機房我們現在嚴重性的是台灣現在等一下我會提出數據現在台灣一半以上都是中國製的檢測\n\n05:47.961 --> 06:13.519\n基因檢測也好或者相關的檢測也好一半以上好他們現在是雲端就在中國台灣就是備份這是現況中國人體基因的檢測法在這個法當中他還強制喔右邊這個法令我查出來第7條我們有他的第34條講到什麼程度他們中國官方啊可以含中央地方政府可以查閱複製查封扣押有關人類的基因\n\n06:16.241 --> 06:30.035\n也就是我們現在一半以上中國製的這樣的基因檢測或相關檢測機器充斥在台灣我們現在國人所有的基因數據全部也透過這樣的機制都在中國機房在中國備份在台灣好再來\n\n06:38.804 --> 07:05.554\n這個呢是一個私人的食藥署這個衛福部核准的私人的實驗室這樣的資料我都有提供給衛福部好這個資料當中中間這一個這個MGI這是華大設備這個資料詳細的部分我可以再提供但在衛福部這邊我早就提供了我說這個是你們核定的私人的實驗室用的是次世代定序的這樣的一個技術項目是中國製的我也給他了\n\n07:08.075 --> 07:14.498\n好那你知道我們呢他怎麼做呢我們缺乏聯動什麼樣的聯動法那這個衛福部在精準醫療必須的次世代分子的檢測上漏洞百出就本席情資的掌握中國這個分子檢驗設備是以非常低的金額他怎麼跟我們所有的實驗室公司力實驗各公司力的醫院公司力的大學講說你都不用錢我們這裡設備都提供給你\n\n07:37.230 --> 07:53.656\n免費提供給業者使用並提供醫療院所的服務業者在賺取健保支出的情況之下這個做基因檢測是政府有支持這個健保點數的將國人的基因資料資訊大量的洩漏給中國特定的團體\n\n07:54.776 --> 08:19.428\n我國從2017年起推動了尤其我本身來自高雄南部智慧生醫產業聚落推動計畫本期大力支持以及你們接續要推動的南部精準健康產業聚落推動計畫本能更是樂見其成重點在我高雄陸主希望導入的就是ICT這個資通訊的技術發展精準健康產業好這樣的政策\n\n08:20.308 --> 08:25.592\n我們國發會主導的5加2國發會跟你們有關係這個是你們現在籌備處5加2的產業發展計畫就有包含生醫產業及精準醫療當中的癌醫治療機會使用到基因檢測設備其對國人基因各自保護確實是產生了以下的問題什麼問題呢第一個\n\n08:43.463 --> 08:52.450\n相關跨部會在產業政策上並未做聯動什麼意思我告訴了衛福部衛福部說他就附了一個公文公文就給了經濟部告訴經濟部說你禁止進口喔經濟部有沒有作為完全沒作為\n\n08:58.454 --> 09:01.055\n好那如果說要下去測長了衛福部又說話了啊這個雲端的技術我們不太懂這個是屬於速發不管的所以相關跨部會光是在產業政策上並會做聯動協作所以很明顯的行政單位漠視腹踢皮球我現在講的是基因檢測這件事情\n\n09:18.023 --> 09:25.189\n第二個扼殺國內生醫生技產業的發展我國人體基因缺乏完整的收集每一個實驗室可能幾千筆可能多著了不起幾萬筆所以我們沒有一個這個整個基因檢測如果它是一個國安議題我們台灣國人的基因要不要整體的數據的完整的收集在哪一個單位它是屬於公開還不公開\n\n09:44.443 --> 09:48.985\n那誰要來做完整那要做什麼用因為有了數據規模我就可以導入預防醫學也可以導入在後續的精準治療譬如說哪些基因的人他特別會有糖尿病的症狀哪些基因的人特別有腎臟病的症狀哪些基因的人都可能會有失智症的症狀這都要長期基因規模才有可能對台灣2300萬人民以及未來的新生兒等等我們可以啟動早期預防\n\n10:13.476 --> 10:30.911\n甚至後續的癌症基因的分子檢測我們更能夠導入精準治療所以這是二殺國內生技第三個健保精準醫療的醫療準確性就本席了解雖然我國已經要進入到精準醫療中國自分子檢驗設備相較於國際先進的設備不管是美國日本德國\n\n10:37.117 --> 10:52.077\n他的準確度是較低的這是業界給我的訊息那你們可以去查更恍若我健保的資源是漸漸挹注解放軍基石的企業現在從事半數以上\n\n10:52.978 --> 10:55.319\n檢測機器都在我們國內還用我們的健保資源去檢測本席這邊沒有苛責任何的單位我希望能夠喚起我們本國在國安單位跟相關部會的重視而且是要積極的處理機應外洩國安形成危機民間的實驗室\n\n11:12.970 --> 11:34.604\n大學實驗室大量使用中國的設備承接國內公私立大公私立大小醫療機構我講到公私立大小醫療機構什麼意思因為我們都是委外連公立的醫療也是委外給民間或公立的醫療的實驗室而且這不僅重大疾病甚至產檢\n\n11:36.165 --> 11:51.637\n我們的罕見疾病都要做到檢測啊它有些是基因檢測有些是一般的檢測取得國人巨量基因的資訊將協助中國可能對我國形成生物戰的威脅形成嚴重的國安漏洞好國安局請上來衛福部抒發部請上來經濟部請上來\n\n11:55.180 --> 12:06.453\n基於國家安全及啊主席對不起特別有請國安局衛福部速發部還有經濟部謝謝主席好來林委員剛所點到的部會請到備舉行台\n\n12:09.571 --> 12:24.954\n那對於籌備處目前你們只做法令的解釋但是未來如果你成為獨立機關的時候在相關我看你們這邊來的有法制事務組查核規劃組綜合企劃組我不曉得未來的執行單位你要怎麼處理\n\n12:25.695 --> 12:52.232\n但是至少現在還是可以做一些事情國安局在今天本席要求在國個資法中將國人基因視為特種個資我現在講的都是個資法現有的規定建起參照英國國會及各先進國家在保護他們國人基因的作為上評估提升為國安層級的議題並採取對應的作為這是第一個本席的要求第二個衛福部主責接同速發部三個月內\n\n12:53.172 --> 13:13.168\n完成查查依特管法特管法的管轄範圍業務你的特管法就已經包括私立的我確認三公私立醫院公私立大學實驗室公私立實驗室的業者在病歷及檢測資料事後外流至境外雲端儲存及資料安全狀況並依法辦理特管法就已經有規定了如果是\n\n13:20.333 --> 13:40.707\n這個有外流到境外的部分你是可以停業的停止使用還甚至可以停業這特管法就規定了好第三個經濟部一衛福部的公函衛福部已經給你們公函了一個月內完成限制中國自次世代地序儀含四季及周邊設備進口作業的相關的法規的完備好請回應來國安局\n\n13:50.242 --> 14:05.689\n因為本局是主管國家安全情報相關工作那對於有關於涉及到對於本局本國家的有相關的國安威脅的相關的情訊我們都會有所展望並且提供給相關的機關做參考以上報告\n\n14:06.889 --> 14:23.578\n所以針對這個議題國人的這個特種個資的部分你們要不要帶回去研議我只請你們研議喔我還沒說你們那個我已經很客氣了這樣子剛才的爬梳您這樣子要不要帶回去研議一下正式的提案在你們的局本部來做討論\n\n14:25.779 --> 14:41.651\n有關於委員的建議我們會進行相關的我會帶回去給因為是國安所以我也不要求你在這邊做相關什麼的回應我不會像衛福部或是外部這麼的明確我相信我還是尊重國安內部的機制你應該啟動的一個國家層級是否要這樣所以在這邊請你帶回去\n\n14:47.575 --> 15:06.613\n好衛福部主責接同速發布這就是特管法規定的了三個月內完成這些公私立醫院公私立大學實驗室公私立實驗室業者在病例檢測資料事後外流至境外雲端儲存及資料安全的狀態可以處理嗎衛福部接同速發布來衛福部\n\n15:08.735 --> 15:24.556\n衛生部你們來的醫事師這應該像醫事師來做你們因為有資訊處雖然關節比較大但是主責上應該是醫事師檢任記證社會保險師林科長是科長來醫事師回應一下\n\n15:26.496 --> 15:54.338\n委員好那針對於人體資料庫我們是這些相關的傳輸我們是有這個人體這個生物資料庫的這個管理條例那我們相關的輸出都會依條例他要報我們申請核准才可以去做輸出這個這個簡記這個我從去年開始我就關心了我不是現在才關心只是你們毫無動作我現在是依客管法請你們三個月完成你現在公立的醫院有處理\n\n15:55.999 --> 16:16.798\n公立的實驗室有沒有處理我不曉得所以我說公私立本身你特管法就包括私立的醫療院所也有包括私立的大學的實驗室私立的實驗室本身特管法就要求了是你不作為喔所以我三個月內要求你查處而且我說你接同書發布你就沒有意見了可以嗎\n\n16:20.072 --> 16:39.281\n好謝委員我們會盡快去處理好謝謝好經濟部一個月內完成限制中國製你總是對現有的狀況他們去做查你對新的你不能再進啊你的相關的這個限制的中國製製的這個次世代地區你的進口作業相關的法規一個月完成可以嗎\n\n16:40.507 --> 16:58.150\n關於委員的要求我們會帶回去給貿易署做相關的評估我所謂完備我可以接受你不用大公告但是你的完備的所有的文字要做公告前的文字一個月內完成可以嗎我們會帶回去好謝謝以上\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.102,"end":10.589,"text":"先請籌備處主任那這個國安局速發部衛福部先準備"},{"start":11.274,"end":32.856,"text":"好本期針對個資法當中特別是國人基因的部分來做討論我國精準醫療的檢驗檢體資訊外流看不見的國安風險因為個資外洩而正在發生個資被利用產業被犧牲健康被腐蝕"},{"start":33.616,"end":47.282,"text":"好本期針對幾個案例第一個新疆種族的滅絕的警示第二個中國自基因地區設備服務的風險第三我們中央各相關單位應作為而未作為的實際的狀態以及產業政策在行政單位缺少聯動最後本期有個具體建議"},{"start":55.405,"end":70.758,"text":"在具體建議當中剛才所點的幾個單位就要上來做回應第一個新疆種族滅絕的警示從2014年中共中央發起嚴厲的打擊暴力恐怖活動他建立起了新疆在教育營2017年營地"},{"start":72.419,"end":100.941,"text":"規模化並迅速擴大隨之建立起達到高潮2019年聯合國人權理事會發生集結的討論2020年美國國會調查報告他說了中國政府於新疆地區針對少數民族以藥物及疫苗進行新疆民族種族滅絕與絕育這樣的藥物跟醫療的疫苗是針對新疆民族的基因"},{"start":102.386,"end":112.775,"text":"特種他的這個民族的基因所做的藥物跟醫療來做種族的滅絕而我國國人的基因是融合了什麼原住民太平洋南島閩南"},{"start":114.198,"end":139.08,"text":"客家国共内战撤退后来到台湾以及新住民已经形成具有高度特色化的基因也就是说我说汉民族到底汉民族他到底汉民族就很广东北亚也是汉民族我觉得与其说汉民族比如说我们黄种人我们黄种人在中国东北亚东南亚"},{"start":140.262,"end":153.717,"text":"甚至上到歐美各國移民出去的所謂的黃種人其實在國人台灣國人的這樣的一個基因在我們這個國家都已經有高度特色化的基因族群"},{"start":154.778,"end":158.38,"text":"好 那中國實施這個種族滅絕 國際專家報告也講了習近平就是設計者 這是2021年的報導那這個也講到這樣的新疆維吾爾族的人權是種族滅絕而且他是以這個基因來進行這個絕育跟病癮的相關的藥物跟疫苗來做的種族滅絕"},{"start":179.409,"end":200.661,"text":"好我們看在前幾年2023年也不過是前年現在2025年前年2023年的3月7號英國國會英國國會當中多位議員聯同世界維吾爾代表大會敦促英國政府對中國基因公司巨頭華大集團"},{"start":202.162,"end":218.081,"text":"這個我會特別講就是等一下各單位你要去回應的啟動了國安評估中國在這個報導我左邊這一份報告是英國議員們他們提出來的這幾個重點我畫出來中國已將基因組學列為國家安全"},{"start":219.899,"end":239.14,"text":"關注的領域並將遺傳數據和基因組合作為優先產業目標作為Made in China 2025的計畫之一在國家支持下華大基因等公司已成為基因主學領域的全球參與者習近平他說了稱讚中國的生物"},{"start":239.56,"end":255.357,"text":"技術成就是最重要的武器這都有英文在上面再來第三個重點基因組織和基因技術的應用對國家安全經濟競爭力及數據隱私具有重大影響應被視為英國重要的國家基礎設施"},{"start":256.838,"end":275.751,"text":"所以我們在指他們呼籲英國國會的議員呼籲他們的政府在這個採購法案通過國會的時候努力的將中國政府有關基因設備立國BGI這樣的一個品牌從政府的採購供應鏈中移除這等一下經濟部要回應的"},{"start":276.671,"end":298.378,"text":"經濟部因作為而沒作為我們還敦促了政府對於就是他們講他英國政府對BGI進行全國的國家安全評估所以等下國安局要回應以確定他們從英國金融機構適應部門合約和英國各大學的研究合作是否構成國家安全挑戰英國國會已經就做這樣的一個"},{"start":300.238,"end":305.2,"text":"國安層級的呼籲來看中國製的基因定序設備跟服務風險來這個是中國人體基因檢測法令這是中國的法令他講到什麼基因定序儀器依靠內建工業級的電腦提供運算並具備通訊傳輸的主模資料上傳軟體下載"},{"start":325.006,"end":346.1,"text":"所有設備均是中國製造與生產也就是中國對他中國自己的檢測一律用中國製的好相關檢測的結果呢還要上傳專屬的雲端雲端機房我們現在嚴重性的是台灣現在等一下我會提出數據現在台灣一半以上都是中國製的檢測"},{"start":347.961,"end":373.519,"text":"基因檢測也好或者相關的檢測也好一半以上好他們現在是雲端就在中國台灣就是備份這是現況中國人體基因的檢測法在這個法當中他還強制喔右邊這個法令我查出來第7條我們有他的第34條講到什麼程度他們中國官方啊可以含中央地方政府可以查閱複製查封扣押有關人類的基因"},{"start":376.241,"end":390.035,"text":"也就是我們現在一半以上中國製的這樣的基因檢測或相關檢測機器充斥在台灣我們現在國人所有的基因數據全部也透過這樣的機制都在中國機房在中國備份在台灣好再來"},{"start":398.804,"end":425.554,"text":"這個呢是一個私人的食藥署這個衛福部核准的私人的實驗室這樣的資料我都有提供給衛福部好這個資料當中中間這一個這個MGI這是華大設備這個資料詳細的部分我可以再提供但在衛福部這邊我早就提供了我說這個是你們核定的私人的實驗室用的是次世代定序的這樣的一個技術項目是中國製的我也給他了"},{"start":428.075,"end":434.498,"text":"好那你知道我們呢他怎麼做呢我們缺乏聯動什麼樣的聯動法那這個衛福部在精準醫療必須的次世代分子的檢測上漏洞百出就本席情資的掌握中國這個分子檢驗設備是以非常低的金額他怎麼跟我們所有的實驗室公司力實驗各公司力的醫院公司力的大學講說你都不用錢我們這裡設備都提供給你"},{"start":457.23,"end":473.656,"text":"免費提供給業者使用並提供醫療院所的服務業者在賺取健保支出的情況之下這個做基因檢測是政府有支持這個健保點數的將國人的基因資料資訊大量的洩漏給中國特定的團體"},{"start":474.776,"end":499.428,"text":"我國從2017年起推動了 尤其我本身來自高雄南部智慧生醫產業聚落推動計畫 本期大力支持以及你們接續要推動的南部精準健康產業聚落推動計畫本能更是樂見其成 重點在我高雄陸主希望導入的就是ICT 這個資通訊的技術發展精準健康產業好 這樣的政策"},{"start":500.308,"end":505.592,"text":"我們國發會主導的5加2 國發會跟你們有關係這個是你們現在籌備處 5加2的產業發展計畫就有包含生醫產業及精準醫療當中的癌醫治療機會使用到基因檢測設備 其對國人基因各自保護確實是產生了以下的問題 什麼問題呢 第一個"},{"start":523.463,"end":532.45,"text":"相關跨部會在產業政策上並未做聯動 什麼意思 我告訴了衛福部 衛福部說他就附了一個公文公文就給了經濟部 告訴經濟部說你禁止進口喔經濟部有沒有作為 完全沒作為"},{"start":538.454,"end":541.055,"text":"好那如果說要下去測長了衛福部又說話了啊這個雲端的技術我們不太懂這個是屬於速發不管的所以相關跨部會光是在產業政策上並會做聯動協作所以很明顯的行政單位漠視腹踢皮球我現在講的是基因檢測這件事情"},{"start":558.023,"end":565.189,"text":"第二個 扼殺國內生醫生技產業的發展我國人體基因缺乏完整的收集每一個實驗室可能幾千筆可能多著了不起幾萬筆所以我們沒有一個這個整個基因檢測如果它是一個國安議題我們台灣國人的基因要不要整體的數據的完整的收集在哪一個單位它是屬於公開還不公開"},{"start":584.443,"end":588.985,"text":"那誰要來做完整 那要做什麼用因為有了數據規模 我就可以導入預防醫學也可以導入在後續的精準治療譬如說哪些基因的人他特別會有糖尿病的症狀哪些基因的人特別有腎臟病的症狀哪些基因的人都可能會有失智症的症狀這都要長期基因規模才有可能對台灣2300萬人民以及未來的新生兒等等我們可以啟動早期預防"},{"start":613.476,"end":630.911,"text":"甚至後續的癌症基因的分子檢測我們更能夠導入精準治療所以這是二殺國內生技第三個健保精準醫療的醫療準確性就本席了解雖然我國已經要進入到精準醫療中國自分子檢驗設備相較於國際先進的設備不管是美國 日本 德國"},{"start":637.117,"end":652.077,"text":"他的準確度是較低的這是業界給我的訊息那你們可以去查更恍若我健保的資源是漸漸挹注解放軍基石的企業現在從事半數以上"},{"start":652.978,"end":655.319,"text":"檢測機器都在我們國內還用我們的健保資源去檢測本席這邊沒有苛責任何的單位我希望能夠喚起我們本國在國安單位跟相關部會的重視而且是要積極的處理機應外洩國安形成危機民間的實驗室"},{"start":672.97,"end":694.604,"text":"大學實驗室大量使用中國的設備承接國內公私立大公私立大小醫療機構我講到公私立大小醫療機構什麼意思因為我們都是委外連公立的醫療也是委外給民間或公立的醫療的實驗室而且這不僅重大疾病甚至產檢"},{"start":696.165,"end":711.637,"text":"我們的罕見疾病都要做到檢測啊它有些是基因檢測有些是一般的檢測取得國人巨量基因的資訊將協助中國可能對我國形成生物戰的威脅形成嚴重的國安漏洞好國安局請上來衛福部抒發部請上來經濟部請上來"},{"start":715.18,"end":726.453,"text":"基於國家安全及 啊 主席對不起 特別有請國安局衛福部 速發部 還有經濟部 謝謝主席好 來 林委員剛所點到的部會 請到備舉行台"},{"start":729.571,"end":744.954,"text":"那對於籌備處目前你們只做法令的解釋但是未來如果你成為獨立機關的時候在相關我看你們這邊來的有法制事務組 查核規劃組 綜合企劃組我不曉得未來的執行單位你要怎麼處理"},{"start":745.695,"end":772.232,"text":"但是至少現在還是可以做一些事情國安局在今天本席要求在國個資法中將國人基因視為特種個資我現在講的都是個資法現有的規定建起參照英國國會及各先進國家在保護他們國人基因的作為上評估提升為國安層級的議題並採取對應的作為這是第一個本席的要求第二個衛福部主責接同速發部三個月內"},{"start":773.172,"end":793.168,"text":"完成查查依特管法特管法的管轄範圍業務你的特管法就已經包括私立的我確認三公私立醫院公私立大學實驗室公私立實驗室的業者在病歷及檢測資料事後外流至境外雲端儲存及資料安全狀況並依法辦理特管法就已經有規定了如果是"},{"start":800.333,"end":820.707,"text":"這個有外流到境外的部分你是可以停業的停止使用還甚至可以停業這特管法就規定了好 第三個經濟部一 衛福部的公函衛福部已經給你們公函了一個月內完成限制中國自次世代地序儀含四季及周邊設備進口作業的相關的法規的完備好 請回應來 國安局"},{"start":830.242,"end":845.689,"text":"因為本局是主管國家安全情報相關工作那對於有關於涉及到對於本局本國家的有相關的國安威脅的相關的情訊我們都會有所展望並且提供給相關的機關做參考以上報告"},{"start":846.889,"end":863.578,"text":"所以針對這個議題國人的這個特種個資的部分你們要不要帶回去研議我只請你們研議喔我還沒說你們那個我已經很客氣了這樣子剛才的爬梳您這樣子要不要帶回去研議一下正式的提案在你們的局本部來做討論"},{"start":865.779,"end":881.651,"text":"有關於委員的建議我們會進行相關的我會帶回去給因為是國安所以我也不要求你在這邊做相關什麼的回應我不會像衛福部或是外部這麼的明確我相信我還是尊重國安內部的機制你應該啟動的一個國家層級是否要這樣所以在這邊請你帶回去"},{"start":887.575,"end":906.613,"text":"好 衛福部主責接同速發布 這就是特管法規定的了三個月內完成這些公私立醫院 公私立大學實驗室公私立實驗室業者在病例檢測資料事後外流至境外雲端儲存及資料安全的狀態可以處理嗎 衛福部接同速發布 來 衛福部"},{"start":908.735,"end":924.556,"text":"衛生部你們來的醫事師這應該像醫事師來做你們因為有資訊處雖然關節比較大但是主責上應該是醫事師檢任記證社會保險師林科長是科長來醫事師回應一下"},{"start":926.496,"end":954.338,"text":"委員好 那針對於人體資料庫我們是這些相關的傳輸我們是有這個人體這個生物資料庫的這個管理條例那我們相關的輸出都會依條例他要報我們申請核准才可以去做輸出這個這個簡記這個我從去年開始我就關心了我不是現在才關心只是你們毫無動作我現在是依客管法請你們三個月完成你現在公立的醫院有處理"},{"start":955.999,"end":976.798,"text":"公立的實驗室有沒有處理 我不曉得所以我說公 私立 本身你特管法就包括私立的醫療院所 也有包括私立的大學的實驗室私立的實驗室本身特管法就要求了是你不作為喔所以我三個月內要求你查處 而且我說你接同書發布 你就沒有意見了可以嗎"},{"start":980.072,"end":999.281,"text":"好 謝委員我們會盡快去處理好 謝謝 好 經濟部一個月內完成 限制中國製 你總是對現有的狀況他們去做查你對新的你不能再進啊你的相關的這個限制的中國製製的這個次世代地區你的進口作業相關的法規一個月完成 可以嗎"},{"start":1000.507,"end":1018.15,"text":"關於委員的要求我們會帶回去給貿易署做相關的評估我所謂完備我可以接受你不用大公告但是你的完備的所有的文字要做公告前的文字一個月內完成可以嗎我們會帶回去好 謝謝 以上"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":214,"blocks":[["林委員岱樺：（9時22分）先請籌備處主任，國安局、數發部、衛福部先準備。","本席針對個資法當中，特別是國人基因的部分來做討論。「我國精準醫療檢驗，檢體資訊外流。看不見的國安風險因為個資外洩而正在發生。個資被利用、產業被犧牲、健康被忽視。」本席針對幾個案例：一、新疆種族滅絕的警示。二、中國製基因定序設備/服務的風險。三、中央各相關單位應作為而未作為的實際狀態。四、產業政策在行政單位間缺少連動。最後本席有個具體建議，在具體建議當中，剛才所點的幾個單位就要上來做回應。","第一個、新疆種族滅絕的警示。2014年起中共中央發起嚴厲打擊暴力恐怖活動專項行動，並建立起新疆再教育營；2017年起營地規模化並迅速擴大，隨之建設達到高潮；2019年聯合國人權理事會發生激烈討論；2020年美國國會調查報告指出，中國政府於新疆地區針對少數民族以藥物及疫苗進行新疆民族種族滅絕及絕育活動。這樣的藥物跟醫療的疫苗是針對新疆民族的基因，即他們民族的特種基因來做的種族滅絕。而我國國人基因是融合了什麼？包含原住民、太平洋南島、閩南、客家、國共內戰撤退後來到臺灣以及新住民等，已經形成具有高度特色化基因族群。也就是說，我說漢民族，漢民族指的就很廣了，東北亞也是漢民族，我覺得與其說是漢民族，不如說我們是黃種人，我們黃種人分布在中國、東北亞、東南亞，甚至散到歐美各國移民出去的所謂的黃種人，其實臺灣國人的基因，在我們這個國家都已經是具有高度特色化基因族群。","「中國實施種族滅絕！國際專家調查報告：習近平就是設計者」這是2021年的報導，其中講到，打壓新疆維吾爾族的人權，甚至是種族滅絕，而且是以基因來進行絕育和避孕相關的藥物跟疫苗來做的種族滅絕。","我們看前幾年，現在是2025年，前（2023）年3月7號，英國國會當中多位議員連同世界維吾爾代表大會，敦促英國政府對中國基因公司巨頭華大集團啟動國安評估，這個我會特別講就是等一下各單位要去回應的。我左邊這一份報告是英國議員們提出來的，有幾個重點我劃出來，中國已將基因組學列為國家安全關注的領域，並將遺傳數據和基因組作為優先產業目標，作為Made in China 2025的計畫之一。在國家支持下，華大基因等公司已成為基因組學領域的全球參與者，習近平稱讚中國的生物技術成就是最重要的武器，這都有英文在上面。再來第三個重點，基因組學和基因技術的應用對國家安全、經濟競爭力及數據隱私具有重大影響，應被視為英國重要的國家基礎設施，所以英國國會議員呼籲他們的政府在採購法案通過國會的時候，努力地將中國政府有關的基因設備，例如BGI這樣的一個品牌，從政府的採購供應鏈中移除，這是等一下要請經濟部回應的，因為經濟部應作為而沒作為。英國國會議員還敦促了他們的政府對BGI進行全面的國家安全評估，所以等一下國安局也要回應。以確定他們從英國金融機構、私營部門合約，和英國各大學的研究合作，是否構成國家安全挑戰，英國國會已經就這樣一個國安層級的問題進行呼籲。","我們來看中國製的基因定序設備跟服務風險，這個是中國人體基因檢測法令，這是中國的法令，它講到什麼？基因定序儀器依靠內建工業級的電腦提供運算，並具備通訊傳輸模組作為資料上傳與軟體下載更新，所有設備均是中國製造與生產，也就是中國對他們自己的檢測，一律用中國製的，相關檢測的結果還要上傳專屬的雲端，雲端機房則設在中國境內。現在具嚴重性的部分，等一下我會提出數據，現在臺灣有一半以上都是中國製的檢測設備，基因檢測也好，或者相關的檢測也好，有一半以上都是。他們現在是雲端在中國，臺灣就是備份，這是現況。在中國人體基因檢測法當中，它還強制簡報右邊這個法令，我查出來，第七條我們有，但它的第三十四條講到什麼程度？他們中國官方，包含中央及地方政府，可以查閱、複製、查封、扣押有關人類的基因，也就是我們現在有一半以上是中國製的基因檢測或相關檢測機器充斥在臺灣，我們現在國人所有的基因數據全部透過這樣的機制，都在中國，機房在中國，備份在臺灣。","再來，這個是衛福部食藥署核准的私人實驗室，這樣的資料我都有提供給衛福部。在這個資料當中，簡報中間這個MGI是華大的設備，詳細的資料我可以再提供，但衛福部這邊我早就提供了，我說這個是你們核定的私人實驗室，所用的次世代定序這樣一個技術項目是中國製的，我也給它了。你知道它怎麼做嗎？我們缺乏連動，什麼樣的連動法？衛福部在精準醫療必須的次世代分子檢測上漏洞百出，就本席的情資掌握，中國製的分子檢驗設備是以非常低的金額提供，它怎麼跟我們所有的實驗室講？就是跟公私立實驗室、公私立的醫院、公私立的大學講說你們都不用付錢，我們這裡的設備都提供給你，免費提供給業者使用並提供醫療院所服務，業者在賺取健保支出的誘因之下，將國人的基因資訊大量地洩漏給中國特定的團體，而做基因檢測是有政府支持健保點數的。我國從2017年起推動的「南部智慧生醫產業聚落推動計畫」，尤其我本身來自高雄，本席大力支持，以及你們接續要推動的「南部精準健康產業聚落推動計畫」，本人更是樂見其成，重點就是在高雄路竹，希望導入的就是ICT（資通訊）的技術，發展精準健康產業。","這樣的政策跟國發會有關係，你們現在是籌備處，國發會主導的5+2產業發展計畫就有包含生醫產業及精準醫療當中的癌醫治療，皆會使用到基因檢測設備，其對國人基因個資保護確實產生了以下問題，什麼問題呢？第一個，相關跨部會在產業政策上並未做連動，什麼意思？我告訴了衛福部，衛福部說它就附一個公文，公文就給了經濟部，告訴經濟部要禁止進口，經濟部有沒有作為？完全沒作為，如果說要下去徹查，衛福部又說話了，說我們不太懂雲端的技術，這個是屬於數發部管的。所以相關部會光是在產業政策上就未連動協作，很明顯地，行政單位漠視、互踢皮球，我現在講的是基因檢測這件事情。","第二個是扼殺國內生醫、生技產業的發展。我國人體基因缺乏完整蒐集，每一個實驗室可能幾千筆，多則了不起幾萬筆，整個基因檢測如果是一個國安議題，要不要將我們臺灣國人的整體基因數據完整地蒐集在哪一個單位？它是屬於公開還是不公開？誰來做比較完整？要做什麼用？因為有了數據規模就可以導入預防醫學，也可以導入在後續的精準治療，譬如哪些基因的人特別會有糖尿病的症狀？哪些基因的人特別會有腎臟病的症狀？哪些基因的人可能會有失智症的症狀？這都要長期的基因規模才有可能做到，對於臺灣2,300萬人民及未來的新生兒等等，我們可以啟動早期預防，甚至後續癌症基因的分子檢測，我們更能夠導入精準治療，所以這是扼殺國內生技。第三個，健保精準醫療的醫療準確性，就本席了解，雖然我國已經要進入到精準醫療，中國製的分子檢驗設備相較於國際先進的設備，不管是美國、日本、德國，它的準確度都是較低的，這是業界給我的訊息，你們可以去查，更遑論健保的資源是間接挹注解放軍支持的企業，現在半數以上從事檢測的機器都在我們國內，還用我們的健保資源去檢測。","本席並沒有苛責任何的單位，我希望能夠喚起本國國安單位跟相關部會的重視，而且是要積極地處理，基因外洩，形成國安危機，民間的實驗室、大學實驗室大量使用中國的設備，承接國內公私立、大小醫療機構，我講到公私立、大小醫療機構，這是什麼意思？因為我們都是委外，連公立的醫療機構也是委外給民間或公立的醫療實驗室，而且不僅是重大疾病，甚至產檢、罕見疾病都要做檢測，它有些是基因檢測，有些是一般的檢測。取得國人巨量的基因資訊，將可能協助中國對我國形成生物戰的威脅，形成嚴重的國安漏洞。","主席，對不起，可不可以請國安局、衛福部、數發部還有經濟部？謝謝主席。"],["主席：好，林委員剛剛所點到的部會，請到備詢臺。"],["林委員岱樺：對於籌備處，目前你們只做法令的檢視，但是未來如果你成為獨立機關的時候，我看你們這邊來的有法制事務組、查核規劃組、綜合企劃組，我不曉得未來的執行單位你要怎麼處理，但是至少現在還是可以做一些事情。國安局也在這邊，本席要求在個資法中將國人的基因視為特種個資，我現在講的都是個資法現有的規定，建請參照英國國會及各先進國家保護他們國人基因的作為，評估、提升為國安層級的議題，並採取對應的作為，這是本席的第一個要求。","第二個，衛福部主責，偕同數發部三個月內完成查察特管法的管轄範圍業者，特管法就已經包括私立的，確認公私立醫院、公私立大學實驗室、公私立實驗室的業者在病歷及檢測資料是否外流至境外雲端儲存及資料安全狀況，並依法辦理。如果有外流到境外的部分，你是可以停業的、停止使用，甚至可以停業，這個特管法就已經有規定的。","第三個，經濟部依衛福部的公函，衛福部已經給你們公函了，一個月內完成限制中國製次世代定序儀（含試劑及周邊設備）進口作業相關法規的完備。國安局請回應。"],["李副主任：因為本局是主管國家安全情報相關工作，有關涉及到對於本國國安威脅相關的情訊，我們都會有所掌握，並且提供給相關的機關做參考，以上報告。"],["林委員岱樺：是。所以針對這個議題，國人特種個資的部分，你們要不要帶回去研議？我只請你們研議喔！我已經很客氣了，剛才這樣的爬梳，你要不要帶回去研議一下，正式提案在你們的局本部做討論？"],["李副主任：關於委員的建議，我們會帶回去給……"],["林委員岱樺：因為是國安啦，所以我也不要求你在這邊做什麼相關的回應，我不會像對衛福部或數發部這麼的明確，我相信並尊重國安內部的機制，你應該啟動的一個國家層級……是否要這樣，所以請你帶回去。","另外，衛福部主責偕同數發部，這就是特管法規定的了，三個月內完成這些公私立醫院、公私立大學實驗室、公私立實驗室業者在病歷檢測資料是否外流至境外雲端儲存及資料安全的狀態，可以處理嗎？由衛福部偕同數發部。衛福部你們來的人，這應該叫醫事司來做，你們有資訊處雖然官階比較大，但是主責上應該是醫事司簡任技正，至於社會保險司林科長，你們是科長來嘛！醫事司回應一下。"],["卓簡任技正琍萍：委員好。針對於人體資料庫，我們這些相關的傳輸是有人體生物資料庫管理條例，相關的輸出都會依條例，他要報我們申請核准才可以做輸送……"],["林委員岱樺：簡技，我從去年開始就關心了，我不是現在才關心，只是你們毫無動作，我現在是依特管法請你們三個月完成，現在公立的醫院有處理，但公立的實驗室有沒有處理，我不曉得，所以我說公、私立，本身特管法就有包括私立的醫療院所，也有包括私立大學的實驗室，而私立的實驗室特管法本身就有要求了，是你不作為喔！所以我要求你三個月內查處，而且我說你偕同數發部，你就沒有意見了，可以嗎？"],["卓簡任技正琍萍：好，謝謝委員，我們會儘快去處理。"],["林委員岱樺：好，謝謝。經濟部，一個月內完成限制中國製，你總是對現有的狀況讓他們去查察，你對新的不能再進了啊！相關限制中國製次世代定序儀的進口作業相關法規在一個月內完成，可以嗎？"],["黃副司長宛玉：關於委員的要求，我們會帶回去給貿易署做相關的評估，謝謝。"],["林委員岱樺：好，我可以接受你可以不用公告，但是你完備所有的文字，要做公告前的文字，一個月內完成，可以嗎？"],["黃副司長宛玉：好，我們會帶回去。"],["林委員岱樺：好，謝謝，以上。"],["主席：謝謝岱樺委員。","我們下一位請邱議瑩委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":90,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-12","speakers":["蔡易餘","林岱樺","邱議瑩","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","呂玉玲","謝衣鳯","張嘉郡","陳超明"],"page_start":47,"meetingDate":["2025-05-08"],"gazette_id":"1144701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、行政院函請審議「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案；二、本院委員王美惠等18\n人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案；三、本院委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「個人資料保\n護法部分條文修正草案」案；四、本院委員李坤城等16人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草\n案」案（本日僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"1144701_00002"}}}