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\"end\": 478.552, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"倫\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 478.552, \"end\": 478.572, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,793 --> 00:00:12,656\n好謝謝主席我們請劉世芳劉部長劉部長有請部長好部長今天我們要談這個都市更新的部分那其實我想大家都非常的重視那其實我們可以看到其實在行政院的網站上面呢都市更新條例這個也甚至是一個非常\n\n2\n00:00:34,996 --> 00:00:58,966\n行政院列為重要的政策就是希望能夠全面提升都更的量能那部長剛剛也報告很多可是我們再繼續看下去都市更新條例裡面重要修法面向有減民都更程序強化都更審議建立協商平台強化政府主導這四個面向部長您覺得現在是穩健的四個方向都做得很好還是有哪一個方向比較帶加強的嗎\n\n3\n00:01:00,266 --> 00:01:05,331\n不然修法要修哪一個方向在公部門跟民間企業就是有意願推動的這個都更的部分這個部分可能還多做溝通因為這持續要了解有意願你認為是民間意願不夠嗎不是有意願\n\n4\n00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:33,510\n但是他們對於了解行政程序上面的問題包括容積啦或者是整個的建築法令上面的規範一般人啦比較沒有這個專業的譬如說建築師或者是其他的這些公會了解那麼多那必須要多溝通但是我們也很樂見看到說地方政府\n\n5\n00:01:34,951 --> 00:01:51,373\n陸陸續續也都成立有關都市更新的專責單位包括北市新北市都有成立都市更新處那其他有八個縣市政府也成立都市更新的相關的科組我覺得這樣子對民眾有意願的來講的話他們在諮詢層面上可以提供相當好的法令上的支持\n\n6\n00:01:51,653 --> 00:01:56,676\n好部長我接受你這段談話不過你現在的講法呢正是我今天想要跟你討論的問題因為從你剛剛的這段談話我中整起來一句話應該是你認為讓我們都市更新加快加大其實是擴大案量也就是擴大讓民間的熟識度以至於進來的案量更大我可以簡化成這樣嗎你是要鼓勵民間更快送大進來以加快都更當然我們不只鼓勵\n\n7\n00:02:22,153 --> 00:02:49,481\n因為我今天想要告訴你討論啦討論的其實就是我們這個都市更新條例是從1998制定到現在經歷了13次修法然後2019全文修正後每年都在修嘛每次其實這是一個算是良性的修法因為它都是在精進可見得我們重視可是你看看我們現在各縣市的都市更新案件是什麼狀況呢在四大階段裡面按照這個網站上面我們這樣看到的狀況其實\n\n8\n00:02:51,221 --> 00:03:17,479\n在等待都委會審定的案件量反而是最多的以全國來講停留在就是他成立了這個都市更新會這是整合民間意見嘛送件然後再來的話報縣市政府的都市更新委員會等待審議這是第二階段然後都委會審議完成之後送地方政府的核定是第三階段嘛然後就核定然後就可以開始開工嘛我沒有搞錯的話確實是這樣\n\n9\n00:03:18,900 --> 00:03:35,098\n那么现在大部分的案件其实是停在都委会的审议当中啊而且如果我们从2021年到2024年这样来看的话其实等待都委会审定的案量是一直在增加的而核定的案件量\n\n10\n00:03:35,999 --> 00:03:55,891\n和等待審議的數字其實顯不相當那這個狀況會是什麼就是部長您剛剛所說的其實民間已經在政府這幾年的鼓勵甚至是告知之下大部分的人已經有這個了解有這個意願而且一直在進來了所以案件量反而是一直在進來但後面塞車了啊\n\n11\n00:03:58,932 --> 00:04:24,295\n我認為是塞車了所以我們也接到不少的陳情暗示到底要怎麼去加速整個都市更新的程序那我現在就是看到政府這邊提出的我覺得政府也很有誠意啦因為剛剛在說的這個簡明都更程序強化都更審議建立協商平台強化這麼多這都是為了要促進它的速度嘛可是事實上\n\n12\n00:04:25,756 --> 00:04:49,316\n數字就是呈現在給我們看啊部長或者是署長你怎麼看這樣的現象好感謝委員垂詢的確因為在整個都更的審議過程當中其實往往不是只有都市計畫審議也有包含都更審議也有包含交評那有些案子大的時候甚至會涉及到環評那所以過去的地方政府他們比較習慣就是線性式的審查\n\n13\n00:04:50,197 --> 00:05:01,268\n那先進式的審查就很容易因為各委員會之間的意見不一致往往會讓很多文件來來回回的退主要講到重點了嘛所以其實我們在過程當中其實都有鼓勵地方能夠併審的話就併審尤其是都市設計跟交評兩個如果可以併審其實是會減低很多的困擾\n\n14\n00:05:10,677 --> 00:05:31,793\n署長你在這裡的話就是確實把他這個內行人講門道啦剛剛在等待都市更新委員會地方政府這一層的審議其實就拆成了這麼多細項這樣子要分頭下去審如果是線性審查和能夠整併加速時間這個就不一樣所以這個是否包含在你的簡化審議程序當中呢看起來是不像\n\n15\n00:05:32,673 --> 00:05:34,895\n因為像礁品跟都市設計它就是純屬地方事務的我們在中央的法規裡面比較沒有辦法規範所以我們過去在檢討作業當中都是用鼓勵的方式鼓勵他們把這些部分能夠併審的話就併審來減輕\n\n16\n00:05:49,964 --> 00:06:11,142\n這過程中這個這個申請人的好署長我覺得你現在的回答很好但是能不能你這段話是到地方政府執行我覺得如果只有鼓勵的話那現在已經實施了幾年就是現在這樣的狀況嘛所以我作為立法委員我在這裡就是看到這樣的現象我提出垂詢嘛我提出質詢嘛那我認為既然內政部是作為這整件事情的中央主管機關那現在鼓勵不夠了\n\n17\n00:06:13,964 --> 00:06:42,029\n問題還在那我們是不是可以提出指引啊或者有什麼其他的方向我們現在簡單講就是要去等待排隊收銀的人要去付錢的人太多了結果收銀台塞住了現在就是廣播在請求資源嘛對啊就是請求收銀資源現在就是請求審議資源這樣的狀態所以到底有什麼方式甚至是根本你的審議委員會的量能是不是應該增加一個縣市可以多成立幾組我覺得這都是可行的方法啊\n\n18\n00:06:42,449 --> 00:06:54,657\n不然的話如果我們一直鼓勵民間那按量一直來對不對那中間這段卡住了那其實反而是造成民怨的狀況因為一等都是用年計算的我覺得這個狀況實在是值得考慮署長甚至部長你覺得今天這段談話你們會做什麼樣的反饋感謝啦感謝委員我想我們第一個當然是在檢討會裡面主要提出來第二個\n\n19\n00:07:06,397 --> 00:07:22,749\n我想在我們過去有很多審議的注意事項那我們或許在跟地方政府協調我們把它更改成相關的作業指引那尤其是在做相關的程序的時候能夠簡化或是併審的制度兩個併行\n\n20\n00:07:24,230 --> 00:07:38,945\n那變成說在你最好三四個委員會一次提出來那讓這個業主能夠做一次性比較一致性的修正我覺得你今天講得非常清楚甚至連提出指引都講出來了那這樣的話是不是可以有明確的啟程\n\n21\n00:07:40,097 --> 00:07:58,572\n好這我想我們今年這個年度就來做這樣一個就是半年左右嘛是年底前今年年底前完成指引啦好不好我們再來去檢討做這樣的修正而且甚至是已經就應該開始實施順便一邊看有什麼要檢討的一邊走一邊做指引然後年底前提出指引好這我們來做這樣好謝謝署長謝謝署長謝謝蘇曉慧委員下一位我們請張志倫委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9793\t12656\t好謝謝主席我們請劉世芳劉部長劉部長有請部長好部長今天我們要談這個都市更新的部分那其實我想大家都非常的重視那其實我們可以看到其實在行政院的網站上面呢都市更新條例這個也甚至是一個非常\n34996\t58966\t行政院列為重要的政策就是希望能夠全面提升都更的量能那部長剛剛也報告很多可是我們再繼續看下去都市更新條例裡面重要修法面向有減民都更程序強化都更審議建立協商平台強化政府主導這四個面向部長您覺得現在是穩健的四個方向都做得很好還是有哪一個方向比較帶加強的嗎\n60266\t65331\t不然修法要修哪一個方向在公部門跟民間企業就是有意願推動的這個都更的部分這個部分可能還多做溝通因為這持續要了解有意願 你認為是民間意願不夠嗎不是 有意願\n75760\t93510\t但是他們對於了解行政程序上面的問題包括容積啦或者是整個的建築法令上面的規範一般人啦比較沒有這個專業的譬如說建築師或者是其他的這些公會了解那麼多那必須要多溝通但是我們也很樂見看到說地方政府\n94951\t111373\t陸陸續續也都成立有關都市更新的專責單位包括北市新北市都有成立都市更新處那其他有八個縣市政府也成立都市更新的相關的科組我覺得這樣子對民眾有意願的來講的話他們在諮詢層面上可以提供相當好的法令上的支持\n111653\t116676\t好 部長我接受你這段談話不過你現在的講法呢正是我今天想要跟你討論的問題因為從你剛剛的這段談話我中整起來一句話應該是你認為讓我們都市更新加快加大其實是擴大案量也就是擴大讓民間的熟識度以至於進來的案量更大我可以簡化成這樣嗎你是要鼓勵民間更快送大進來以加快都更當然我們不只鼓勵\n142153\t169481\t因為我今天想要告訴你討論啦討論的其實就是我們這個都市更新條例是從1998制定到現在經歷了13次修法然後2019全文修正後每年都在修嘛每次其實這是一個算是良性的修法因為它都是在精進可見得我們重視可是你看看我們現在各縣市的都市更新案件是什麼狀況呢在四大階段裡面按照這個網站上面我們這樣看到的狀況其實\n171221\t197479\t在等待都委會審定的案件量反而是最多的以全國來講停留在就是他成立了這個都市更新會這是整合民間意見嘛送件然後再來的話報縣市政府的都市更新委員會等待審議這是第二階段然後都委會審議完成之後送地方政府的核定是第三階段嘛然後就核定然後就可以開始開工嘛我沒有搞錯的話確實是這樣\n198900\t215098\t那么现在大部分的案件其实是停在都委会的审议当中啊而且如果我们从2021年到2024年这样来看的话其实等待都委会审定的案量是一直在增加的而核定的案件量\n215999\t235891\t和等待審議的數字其實顯不相當那這個狀況會是什麼就是部長您剛剛所說的其實民間已經在政府這幾年的鼓勵甚至是告知之下大部分的人已經有這個了解有這個意願而且一直在進來了所以案件量反而是一直在進來但後面塞車了啊\n238932\t264295\t我認為是塞車了所以我們也接到不少的陳情暗示到底要怎麼去加速整個都市更新的程序那我現在就是看到政府這邊提出的我覺得政府也很有誠意啦因為剛剛在說的這個簡明都更程序強化都更審議建立協商平台強化這麼多這都是為了要促進它的速度嘛可是事實上\n265756\t289316\t數字就是呈現在給我們看啊部長或者是署長你怎麼看這樣的現象好 感謝委員垂詢的確因為在整個都更的審議過程當中其實往往不是只有都市計畫審議也有包含都更審議 也有包含交評那有些案子大的時候甚至會涉及到環評那所以過去的地方政府他們比較習慣就是線性式的審查\n290197\t301268\t那先進式的審查就很容易因為各委員會之間的意見不一致往往會讓很多文件來來回回的退主要講到重點了嘛所以其實我們在過程當中其實都有鼓勵地方能夠併審的話就併審尤其是都市設計跟交評兩個如果可以併審其實是會減低很多的困擾\n310677\t331793\t署長你在這裡的話就是確實把他這個內行人講門道啦剛剛在等待都市更新委員會地方政府這一層的審議其實就拆成了這麼多細項這樣子要分頭下去審如果是線性審查和能夠整併加速時間這個就不一樣所以這個是否包含在你的簡化審議程序當中呢看起來是不像\n332673\t334895\t因為像礁品跟都市設計它就是純屬地方事務的我們在中央的法規裡面比較沒有辦法規範所以我們過去在檢討作業當中都是用鼓勵的方式鼓勵他們把這些部分能夠併審的話就併審來減輕\n349964\t371142\t這過程中這個這個申請人的好署長我覺得你現在的回答很好但是能不能你這段話是到地方政府執行我覺得如果只有鼓勵的話那現在已經實施了幾年就是現在這樣的狀況嘛所以我作為立法委員我在這裡就是看到這樣的現象我提出垂詢嘛我提出質詢嘛那我認為既然內政部是作為這整件事情的中央主管機關那現在鼓勵不夠了\n373964\t402029\t問題還在那我們是不是可以提出指引啊或者有什麼其他的方向我們現在簡單講就是要去等待排隊收銀的人要去付錢的人太多了結果收銀台塞住了現在就是廣播在請求資源嘛對啊 就是請求收銀資源現在就是請求審議資源這樣的狀態所以到底有什麼方式甚至是根本你的審議委員會的量能是不是應該增加一個縣市可以多成立幾組我覺得這都是可行的方法啊\n402449\t414657\t不然的話如果我們一直鼓勵民間那按量一直來對不對那中間這段卡住了那其實反而是造成民怨的狀況因為一等都是用年計算的我覺得這個狀況實在是值得考慮署長甚至部長你覺得今天這段談話你們會做什麼樣的反饋感謝啦感謝委員我想我們第一個當然是在檢討會裡面主要提出來第二個\n426397\t442749\t我想在我們過去有很多審議的注意事項那我們或許在跟地方政府協調我們把它更改成相關的作業指引那尤其是在做相關的程序的時候能夠簡化或是併審的制度兩個併行\n444230\t458945\t那變成說在你最好三四個委員會一次提出來那讓這個業主能夠做一次性比較一致性的修正我覺得你今天講得非常清楚甚至連提出指引都講出來了那這樣的話是不是可以有明確的啟程\n460097\t478572\t好 這我想我們今年這個年度就來做這樣一個就是半年左右嘛 是年底前 今年年底前完成指引啦好不好我們再來去檢討做這樣的修正而且甚至是已經就應該開始實施順便一邊看有什麼要檢討的一邊走一邊做指引然後年底前提出指引好 這我們來做這樣好 謝謝署長 謝謝署長謝謝蘇曉慧委員下一位我們請張志倫委員質詢\n","txt":"好謝謝主席我們請劉世芳劉部長劉部長有請部長好部長今天我們要談這個都市更新的部分那其實我想大家都非常的重視那其實我們可以看到其實在行政院的網站上面呢都市更新條例這個也甚至是一個非常\n行政院列為重要的政策就是希望能夠全面提升都更的量能那部長剛剛也報告很多可是我們再繼續看下去都市更新條例裡面重要修法面向有減民都更程序強化都更審議建立協商平台強化政府主導這四個面向部長您覺得現在是穩健的四個方向都做得很好還是有哪一個方向比較帶加強的嗎\n不然修法要修哪一個方向在公部門跟民間企業就是有意願推動的這個都更的部分這個部分可能還多做溝通因為這持續要了解有意願 你認為是民間意願不夠嗎不是 有意願\n但是他們對於了解行政程序上面的問題包括容積啦或者是整個的建築法令上面的規範一般人啦比較沒有這個專業的譬如說建築師或者是其他的這些公會了解那麼多那必須要多溝通但是我們也很樂見看到說地方政府\n陸陸續續也都成立有關都市更新的專責單位包括北市新北市都有成立都市更新處那其他有八個縣市政府也成立都市更新的相關的科組我覺得這樣子對民眾有意願的來講的話他們在諮詢層面上可以提供相當好的法令上的支持\n好 部長我接受你這段談話不過你現在的講法呢正是我今天想要跟你討論的問題因為從你剛剛的這段談話我中整起來一句話應該是你認為讓我們都市更新加快加大其實是擴大案量也就是擴大讓民間的熟識度以至於進來的案量更大我可以簡化成這樣嗎你是要鼓勵民間更快送大進來以加快都更當然我們不只鼓勵\n因為我今天想要告訴你討論啦討論的其實就是我們這個都市更新條例是從1998制定到現在經歷了13次修法然後2019全文修正後每年都在修嘛每次其實這是一個算是良性的修法因為它都是在精進可見得我們重視可是你看看我們現在各縣市的都市更新案件是什麼狀況呢在四大階段裡面按照這個網站上面我們這樣看到的狀況其實\n在等待都委會審定的案件量反而是最多的以全國來講停留在就是他成立了這個都市更新會這是整合民間意見嘛送件然後再來的話報縣市政府的都市更新委員會等待審議這是第二階段然後都委會審議完成之後送地方政府的核定是第三階段嘛然後就核定然後就可以開始開工嘛我沒有搞錯的話確實是這樣\n那么现在大部分的案件其实是停在都委会的审议当中啊而且如果我们从2021年到2024年这样来看的话其实等待都委会审定的案量是一直在增加的而核定的案件量\n和等待審議的數字其實顯不相當那這個狀況會是什麼就是部長您剛剛所說的其實民間已經在政府這幾年的鼓勵甚至是告知之下大部分的人已經有這個了解有這個意願而且一直在進來了所以案件量反而是一直在進來但後面塞車了啊\n我認為是塞車了所以我們也接到不少的陳情暗示到底要怎麼去加速整個都市更新的程序那我現在就是看到政府這邊提出的我覺得政府也很有誠意啦因為剛剛在說的這個簡明都更程序強化都更審議建立協商平台強化這麼多這都是為了要促進它的速度嘛可是事實上\n數字就是呈現在給我們看啊部長或者是署長你怎麼看這樣的現象好 感謝委員垂詢的確因為在整個都更的審議過程當中其實往往不是只有都市計畫審議也有包含都更審議 也有包含交評那有些案子大的時候甚至會涉及到環評那所以過去的地方政府他們比較習慣就是線性式的審查\n那先進式的審查就很容易因為各委員會之間的意見不一致往往會讓很多文件來來回回的退主要講到重點了嘛所以其實我們在過程當中其實都有鼓勵地方能夠併審的話就併審尤其是都市設計跟交評兩個如果可以併審其實是會減低很多的困擾\n署長你在這裡的話就是確實把他這個內行人講門道啦剛剛在等待都市更新委員會地方政府這一層的審議其實就拆成了這麼多細項這樣子要分頭下去審如果是線性審查和能夠整併加速時間這個就不一樣所以這個是否包含在你的簡化審議程序當中呢看起來是不像\n因為像礁品跟都市設計它就是純屬地方事務的我們在中央的法規裡面比較沒有辦法規範所以我們過去在檢討作業當中都是用鼓勵的方式鼓勵他們把這些部分能夠併審的話就併審來減輕\n這過程中這個這個申請人的好署長我覺得你現在的回答很好但是能不能你這段話是到地方政府執行我覺得如果只有鼓勵的話那現在已經實施了幾年就是現在這樣的狀況嘛所以我作為立法委員我在這裡就是看到這樣的現象我提出垂詢嘛我提出質詢嘛那我認為既然內政部是作為這整件事情的中央主管機關那現在鼓勵不夠了\n問題還在那我們是不是可以提出指引啊或者有什麼其他的方向我們現在簡單講就是要去等待排隊收銀的人要去付錢的人太多了結果收銀台塞住了現在就是廣播在請求資源嘛對啊 就是請求收銀資源現在就是請求審議資源這樣的狀態所以到底有什麼方式甚至是根本你的審議委員會的量能是不是應該增加一個縣市可以多成立幾組我覺得這都是可行的方法啊\n不然的話如果我們一直鼓勵民間那按量一直來對不對那中間這段卡住了那其實反而是造成民怨的狀況因為一等都是用年計算的我覺得這個狀況實在是值得考慮署長甚至部長你覺得今天這段談話你們會做什麼樣的反饋感謝啦感謝委員我想我們第一個當然是在檢討會裡面主要提出來第二個\n我想在我們過去有很多審議的注意事項那我們或許在跟地方政府協調我們把它更改成相關的作業指引那尤其是在做相關的程序的時候能夠簡化或是併審的制度兩個併行\n那變成說在你最好三四個委員會一次提出來那讓這個業主能夠做一次性比較一致性的修正我覺得你今天講得非常清楚甚至連提出指引都講出來了那這樣的話是不是可以有明確的啟程\n好 這我想我們今年這個年度就來做這樣一個就是半年左右嘛 是年底前 今年年底前完成指引啦好不好我們再來去檢討做這樣的修正而且甚至是已經就應該開始實施順便一邊看有什麼要檢討的一邊走一邊做指引然後年底前提出指引好 這我們來做這樣好 謝謝署長 謝謝署長謝謝蘇曉慧委員下一位我們請張志倫委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.793 --> 00:12.656\n好謝謝主席我們請劉世芳劉部長劉部長有請部長好部長今天我們要談這個都市更新的部分那其實我想大家都非常的重視那其實我們可以看到其實在行政院的網站上面呢都市更新條例這個也甚至是一個非常\n\n00:34.996 --> 00:58.966\n行政院列為重要的政策就是希望能夠全面提升都更的量能那部長剛剛也報告很多可是我們再繼續看下去都市更新條例裡面重要修法面向有減民都更程序強化都更審議建立協商平台強化政府主導這四個面向部長您覺得現在是穩健的四個方向都做得很好還是有哪一個方向比較帶加強的嗎\n\n01:00.266 --> 01:05.331\n不然修法要修哪一個方向在公部門跟民間企業就是有意願推動的這個都更的部分這個部分可能還多做溝通因為這持續要了解有意願你認為是民間意願不夠嗎不是有意願\n\n01:15.760 --> 01:33.510\n但是他們對於了解行政程序上面的問題包括容積啦或者是整個的建築法令上面的規範一般人啦比較沒有這個專業的譬如說建築師或者是其他的這些公會了解那麼多那必須要多溝通但是我們也很樂見看到說地方政府\n\n01:34.951 --> 01:51.373\n陸陸續續也都成立有關都市更新的專責單位包括北市新北市都有成立都市更新處那其他有八個縣市政府也成立都市更新的相關的科組我覺得這樣子對民眾有意願的來講的話他們在諮詢層面上可以提供相當好的法令上的支持\n\n01:51.653 --> 01:56.676\n好部長我接受你這段談話不過你現在的講法呢正是我今天想要跟你討論的問題因為從你剛剛的這段談話我中整起來一句話應該是你認為讓我們都市更新加快加大其實是擴大案量也就是擴大讓民間的熟識度以至於進來的案量更大我可以簡化成這樣嗎你是要鼓勵民間更快送大進來以加快都更當然我們不只鼓勵\n\n02:22.153 --> 02:49.481\n因為我今天想要告訴你討論啦討論的其實就是我們這個都市更新條例是從1998制定到現在經歷了13次修法然後2019全文修正後每年都在修嘛每次其實這是一個算是良性的修法因為它都是在精進可見得我們重視可是你看看我們現在各縣市的都市更新案件是什麼狀況呢在四大階段裡面按照這個網站上面我們這樣看到的狀況其實\n\n02:51.221 --> 03:17.479\n在等待都委會審定的案件量反而是最多的以全國來講停留在就是他成立了這個都市更新會這是整合民間意見嘛送件然後再來的話報縣市政府的都市更新委員會等待審議這是第二階段然後都委會審議完成之後送地方政府的核定是第三階段嘛然後就核定然後就可以開始開工嘛我沒有搞錯的話確實是這樣\n\n03:18.900 --> 03:35.098\n那么现在大部分的案件其实是停在都委会的审议当中啊而且如果我们从2021年到2024年这样来看的话其实等待都委会审定的案量是一直在增加的而核定的案件量\n\n03:35.999 --> 03:55.891\n和等待審議的數字其實顯不相當那這個狀況會是什麼就是部長您剛剛所說的其實民間已經在政府這幾年的鼓勵甚至是告知之下大部分的人已經有這個了解有這個意願而且一直在進來了所以案件量反而是一直在進來但後面塞車了啊\n\n03:58.932 --> 04:24.295\n我認為是塞車了所以我們也接到不少的陳情暗示到底要怎麼去加速整個都市更新的程序那我現在就是看到政府這邊提出的我覺得政府也很有誠意啦因為剛剛在說的這個簡明都更程序強化都更審議建立協商平台強化這麼多這都是為了要促進它的速度嘛可是事實上\n\n04:25.756 --> 04:49.316\n數字就是呈現在給我們看啊部長或者是署長你怎麼看這樣的現象好感謝委員垂詢的確因為在整個都更的審議過程當中其實往往不是只有都市計畫審議也有包含都更審議也有包含交評那有些案子大的時候甚至會涉及到環評那所以過去的地方政府他們比較習慣就是線性式的審查\n\n04:50.197 --> 05:01.268\n那先進式的審查就很容易因為各委員會之間的意見不一致往往會讓很多文件來來回回的退主要講到重點了嘛所以其實我們在過程當中其實都有鼓勵地方能夠併審的話就併審尤其是都市設計跟交評兩個如果可以併審其實是會減低很多的困擾\n\n05:10.677 --> 05:31.793\n署長你在這裡的話就是確實把他這個內行人講門道啦剛剛在等待都市更新委員會地方政府這一層的審議其實就拆成了這麼多細項這樣子要分頭下去審如果是線性審查和能夠整併加速時間這個就不一樣所以這個是否包含在你的簡化審議程序當中呢看起來是不像\n\n05:32.673 --> 05:34.895\n因為像礁品跟都市設計它就是純屬地方事務的我們在中央的法規裡面比較沒有辦法規範所以我們過去在檢討作業當中都是用鼓勵的方式鼓勵他們把這些部分能夠併審的話就併審來減輕\n\n05:49.964 --> 06:11.142\n這過程中這個這個申請人的好署長我覺得你現在的回答很好但是能不能你這段話是到地方政府執行我覺得如果只有鼓勵的話那現在已經實施了幾年就是現在這樣的狀況嘛所以我作為立法委員我在這裡就是看到這樣的現象我提出垂詢嘛我提出質詢嘛那我認為既然內政部是作為這整件事情的中央主管機關那現在鼓勵不夠了\n\n06:13.964 --> 06:42.029\n問題還在那我們是不是可以提出指引啊或者有什麼其他的方向我們現在簡單講就是要去等待排隊收銀的人要去付錢的人太多了結果收銀台塞住了現在就是廣播在請求資源嘛對啊就是請求收銀資源現在就是請求審議資源這樣的狀態所以到底有什麼方式甚至是根本你的審議委員會的量能是不是應該增加一個縣市可以多成立幾組我覺得這都是可行的方法啊\n\n06:42.449 --> 06:54.657\n不然的話如果我們一直鼓勵民間那按量一直來對不對那中間這段卡住了那其實反而是造成民怨的狀況因為一等都是用年計算的我覺得這個狀況實在是值得考慮署長甚至部長你覺得今天這段談話你們會做什麼樣的反饋感謝啦感謝委員我想我們第一個當然是在檢討會裡面主要提出來第二個\n\n07:06.397 --> 07:22.749\n我想在我們過去有很多審議的注意事項那我們或許在跟地方政府協調我們把它更改成相關的作業指引那尤其是在做相關的程序的時候能夠簡化或是併審的制度兩個併行\n\n07:24.230 --> 07:38.945\n那變成說在你最好三四個委員會一次提出來那讓這個業主能夠做一次性比較一致性的修正我覺得你今天講得非常清楚甚至連提出指引都講出來了那這樣的話是不是可以有明確的啟程\n\n07:40.097 --> 07:58.572\n好這我想我們今年這個年度就來做這樣一個就是半年左右嘛是年底前今年年底前完成指引啦好不好我們再來去檢討做這樣的修正而且甚至是已經就應該開始實施順便一邊看有什麼要檢討的一邊走一邊做指引然後年底前提出指引好這我們來做這樣好謝謝署長謝謝署長謝謝蘇曉慧委員下一位我們請張志倫委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.793,"end":12.656,"text":"好謝謝主席我們請劉世芳劉部長劉部長有請部長好部長今天我們要談這個都市更新的部分那其實我想大家都非常的重視那其實我們可以看到其實在行政院的網站上面呢都市更新條例這個也甚至是一個非常"},{"start":34.996,"end":58.966,"text":"行政院列為重要的政策就是希望能夠全面提升都更的量能那部長剛剛也報告很多可是我們再繼續看下去都市更新條例裡面重要修法面向有減民都更程序強化都更審議建立協商平台強化政府主導這四個面向部長您覺得現在是穩健的四個方向都做得很好還是有哪一個方向比較帶加強的嗎"},{"start":60.266,"end":65.331,"text":"不然修法要修哪一個方向在公部門跟民間企業就是有意願推動的這個都更的部分這個部分可能還多做溝通因為這持續要了解有意願 你認為是民間意願不夠嗎不是 有意願"},{"start":75.76,"end":93.51,"text":"但是他們對於了解行政程序上面的問題包括容積啦或者是整個的建築法令上面的規範一般人啦比較沒有這個專業的譬如說建築師或者是其他的這些公會了解那麼多那必須要多溝通但是我們也很樂見看到說地方政府"},{"start":94.951,"end":111.373,"text":"陸陸續續也都成立有關都市更新的專責單位包括北市新北市都有成立都市更新處那其他有八個縣市政府也成立都市更新的相關的科組我覺得這樣子對民眾有意願的來講的話他們在諮詢層面上可以提供相當好的法令上的支持"},{"start":111.653,"end":116.676,"text":"好 部長我接受你這段談話不過你現在的講法呢正是我今天想要跟你討論的問題因為從你剛剛的這段談話我中整起來一句話應該是你認為讓我們都市更新加快加大其實是擴大案量也就是擴大讓民間的熟識度以至於進來的案量更大我可以簡化成這樣嗎你是要鼓勵民間更快送大進來以加快都更當然我們不只鼓勵"},{"start":142.153,"end":169.481,"text":"因為我今天想要告訴你討論啦討論的其實就是我們這個都市更新條例是從1998制定到現在經歷了13次修法然後2019全文修正後每年都在修嘛每次其實這是一個算是良性的修法因為它都是在精進可見得我們重視可是你看看我們現在各縣市的都市更新案件是什麼狀況呢在四大階段裡面按照這個網站上面我們這樣看到的狀況其實"},{"start":171.221,"end":197.479,"text":"在等待都委會審定的案件量反而是最多的以全國來講停留在就是他成立了這個都市更新會這是整合民間意見嘛送件然後再來的話報縣市政府的都市更新委員會等待審議這是第二階段然後都委會審議完成之後送地方政府的核定是第三階段嘛然後就核定然後就可以開始開工嘛我沒有搞錯的話確實是這樣"},{"start":198.9,"end":215.098,"text":"那么现在大部分的案件其实是停在都委会的审议当中啊而且如果我们从2021年到2024年这样来看的话其实等待都委会审定的案量是一直在增加的而核定的案件量"},{"start":215.999,"end":235.891,"text":"和等待審議的數字其實顯不相當那這個狀況會是什麼就是部長您剛剛所說的其實民間已經在政府這幾年的鼓勵甚至是告知之下大部分的人已經有這個了解有這個意願而且一直在進來了所以案件量反而是一直在進來但後面塞車了啊"},{"start":238.932,"end":264.295,"text":"我認為是塞車了所以我們也接到不少的陳情暗示到底要怎麼去加速整個都市更新的程序那我現在就是看到政府這邊提出的我覺得政府也很有誠意啦因為剛剛在說的這個簡明都更程序強化都更審議建立協商平台強化這麼多這都是為了要促進它的速度嘛可是事實上"},{"start":265.756,"end":289.316,"text":"數字就是呈現在給我們看啊部長或者是署長你怎麼看這樣的現象好 感謝委員垂詢的確因為在整個都更的審議過程當中其實往往不是只有都市計畫審議也有包含都更審議 也有包含交評那有些案子大的時候甚至會涉及到環評那所以過去的地方政府他們比較習慣就是線性式的審查"},{"start":290.197,"end":301.268,"text":"那先進式的審查就很容易因為各委員會之間的意見不一致往往會讓很多文件來來回回的退主要講到重點了嘛所以其實我們在過程當中其實都有鼓勵地方能夠併審的話就併審尤其是都市設計跟交評兩個如果可以併審其實是會減低很多的困擾"},{"start":310.677,"end":331.793,"text":"署長你在這裡的話就是確實把他這個內行人講門道啦剛剛在等待都市更新委員會地方政府這一層的審議其實就拆成了這麼多細項這樣子要分頭下去審如果是線性審查和能夠整併加速時間這個就不一樣所以這個是否包含在你的簡化審議程序當中呢看起來是不像"},{"start":332.673,"end":334.895,"text":"因為像礁品跟都市設計它就是純屬地方事務的我們在中央的法規裡面比較沒有辦法規範所以我們過去在檢討作業當中都是用鼓勵的方式鼓勵他們把這些部分能夠併審的話就併審來減輕"},{"start":349.964,"end":371.142,"text":"這過程中這個這個申請人的好署長我覺得你現在的回答很好但是能不能你這段話是到地方政府執行我覺得如果只有鼓勵的話那現在已經實施了幾年就是現在這樣的狀況嘛所以我作為立法委員我在這裡就是看到這樣的現象我提出垂詢嘛我提出質詢嘛那我認為既然內政部是作為這整件事情的中央主管機關那現在鼓勵不夠了"},{"start":373.964,"end":402.029,"text":"問題還在那我們是不是可以提出指引啊或者有什麼其他的方向我們現在簡單講就是要去等待排隊收銀的人要去付錢的人太多了結果收銀台塞住了現在就是廣播在請求資源嘛對啊 就是請求收銀資源現在就是請求審議資源這樣的狀態所以到底有什麼方式甚至是根本你的審議委員會的量能是不是應該增加一個縣市可以多成立幾組我覺得這都是可行的方法啊"},{"start":402.449,"end":414.657,"text":"不然的話如果我們一直鼓勵民間那按量一直來對不對那中間這段卡住了那其實反而是造成民怨的狀況因為一等都是用年計算的我覺得這個狀況實在是值得考慮署長甚至部長你覺得今天這段談話你們會做什麼樣的反饋感謝啦感謝委員我想我們第一個當然是在檢討會裡面主要提出來第二個"},{"start":426.397,"end":442.749,"text":"我想在我們過去有很多審議的注意事項那我們或許在跟地方政府協調我們把它更改成相關的作業指引那尤其是在做相關的程序的時候能夠簡化或是併審的制度兩個併行"},{"start":444.23,"end":458.945,"text":"那變成說在你最好三四個委員會一次提出來那讓這個業主能夠做一次性比較一致性的修正我覺得你今天講得非常清楚甚至連提出指引都講出來了那這樣的話是不是可以有明確的啟程"},{"start":460.097,"end":478.572,"text":"好 這我想我們今年這個年度就來做這樣一個就是半年左右嘛 是年底前 今年年底前完成指引啦好不好我們再來去檢討做這樣的修正而且甚至是已經就應該開始實施順便一邊看有什麼要檢討的一邊走一邊做指引然後年底前提出指引好 這我們來做這樣好 謝謝署長 謝謝署長謝謝蘇曉慧委員下一位我們請張志倫委員質詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":120,"blocks":[["蘇委員巧慧：（9時16分）謝謝主席。我們請劉世芳劉部長。"],["主席：劉部長，有請。"],["劉部長世芳：委員早。"],["蘇委員巧慧：部長好。今天我們要談都市更新，這部分我想大家都非常重視。其實我們可以看到，在行政院的網站上面，都市更新條例的修法被列為重要政策，希望能夠全面提升都更的量能。","部長剛剛也報告了很多。都市更新條例重要的修法面向包括簡明都更程序、強化都更審議、建立協商平臺、強化政府主導，部長覺得這四個面向現在是都穩健地做得很好，還是有哪一個方向比較有待加強？不然修法要修哪一個方向？"],["劉部長世芳：在公部門和民間企業，就是有意願推動都更的部分可能還要多做溝通，因為要持續瞭解……"],["蘇委員巧慧：有意願？你認為是民間意願不夠嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：不是，是有意願者，但是他不瞭解行政程序上面的問題，包括容積或者是整個建築法令上的規範。一般人比較沒有像這個專業，譬如說建築師或其他公會瞭解得那麼多，必須要多溝通。但是我們也很高興看到地方政府陸陸續續成立有關都市更新的專責單位，包括臺北市、新北市，都有成立都市更新處，其他有8個縣市政府也成立都市更新相關科、組，我覺得這樣對有意願的民眾來講，在諮詢層面可以提供相當好的法令上的支持。"],["蘇委員巧慧：部長，我接受你這段談話，不過你現在的講法正是我今天想要跟你討論的問題，因為從你剛剛這段談話，我綜整起來的一句話應該是，你認為讓我們都市更新加快、加大，其實是擴大案量，也就是擴大民間的熟識度，讓進來的案量更大。我可是簡化成這樣嗎？你是要鼓勵民間更快送案進來以加快都更？"],["劉部長世芳：當然，我們不只鼓勵，還有獎勵。"],["蘇委員巧慧：我的方向恰好跟你相反。我今天想要跟你討論的是，都市更新條例從1998年制定到現在，經歷13次修法，2019年全文修正後，每年都在修，其實這算是一個良性的修法，因為它都是在精進，也可見我們對它的重視。可是你看看，現在各縣市的都市更新案件是什麼狀況呢？按照我們在網站上看到的狀況，在四大階段裡面，「等待都委會審定」的案件量反而是最多的。以全國來講，成立都市更新會整合民間意見後送件，再來是報縣市政府的都市更新委員會等待審議，這是第二階段；都委會審議完成後，送地方政府核定是第三階段，核定後就可以開工。如果我沒有搞錯的話，確實是這樣。現在大部分的案件其實是停在都委會審議當中，如果我們從2021年到2024年來看，等待都委會審定的案件量是一直在增加的，而核定的案件量和等待審議的數字顯不相當。這個狀況就是部長剛剛所說的，其實民間已經在政府這幾年的鼓勵甚至告知之下，大部分的人已經有這個瞭解、有這個意願，而且一直送件進來了，所以案件量一直增加，但是後面塞車了啦！我認為是塞車了！所以我們也接到不少陳情案是到底要怎麼去加速整個都市更新的程序。","現在看到政府這邊提出的，我覺得政府也很有誠意，因為剛剛在說的簡明都更程序、強化都更審議、建立協商平臺、強化政府主導，都是為了要促進它的速度嘛！可是事實上就是呈現這樣的數字給我們看啊！部長或署長，你們怎麼看這樣的現象？"],["吳署長欣修：感謝委員垂詢，的確在整個都更的審議過程當中，往往不是只有都市計畫審議，也有包含都更審議，也有包含交評，有些大的案子甚至會涉及環評，所以過去地方政府比較習慣線性式的審查，線性式的審查就很容易因為各委員會之間的意見不一致，而讓很多文件來來回回地退……"],["蘇委員巧慧：署長講到重點了嘛！"],["吳署長欣修：所以我們在過程當中其實都有鼓勵地方，能夠併審的話就併審，尤其是都市設計跟交評，兩個如果可以併審，其實會減少很多困擾。"],["蘇委員巧慧：署長確實是內行人，懂得其中的門道。在等待地方政府這一層的都市更新委員會審議，其實就拆成這麼多細項要分頭下去審，如果是線性審查，和能夠整併、加快速度、縮短時間，這個就不一樣了。所以這是否包含在你們所說的簡化審議程序當中呢？看起來是不像！"],["吳署長欣修：報告……"],["蘇委員巧慧：不是喔！不一樣喔！"],["吳署長欣修：因為交評和都市設計就是純屬地方事務的部分，我們在中央的法規裡面比較沒有辦法規範，所以我們過去在檢討作業當中，都是用鼓勵的方式，鼓勵他們把這些部分能夠併審的話就併審，來減輕申請人在這個過程中的困擾。"],["蘇委員巧慧：署長，我覺得你現在的回答很好，但是你這段話能不能在地方政府執行？我覺得如果只有鼓勵的話，實施了幾年就是現在這樣的狀況嘛！身為立法委員，我就是因為看到這樣的現象而在這裡提出質詢。我認為既然內政部是這件事情的中央主管機關，現在鼓勵不夠了，問題還在，那麼你們是不是可以提出指引或者是有什麼其他的方向？現在簡單講就像是要去付錢的人太多，結果收銀臺塞住了，所以廣播「請支援收銀」嘛！"],["吳署長欣修：瞭解。"],["蘇委員巧慧：現在就是和「請支援收銀」一樣，處在請求支援審議的狀態，所以到底有什麼方式？甚至審議委員會的量能是不是應該增加？一個縣市可以多成立幾組，我覺得這都是可行的方法，不然的話，如果我們一直鼓勵民間，案量就一直來，對不對？而中間這段卡住了，其實反而造成了民怨，因為一等都是用年來計算的，我覺得這個狀況實在是值得考慮。署長、部長，今天這段談話，你們會做什麼樣的反饋？"],["吳署長欣修：感謝委員，我想第一個當然是在檢討會裡面要去提出來；第二個，我們過去有很多審議的注意事項，在跟地方政府協調時，或許我們能夠更改成相關的作業指引……"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，明確訂出指引。"],["吳署長欣修：尤其是鼓勵他們在做相關的程序時能夠簡化，或是用併審的制度，兩個併行，變成最好在三、四個委員會一次提出來，讓這個業主能夠一次性做比較一致性的修正，這樣的話……"],["蘇委員巧慧：署長，我覺得你今天講得非常清楚，甚至連提出指引都講出來了，這樣的話是不是可以有明確的期程？"],["吳署長欣修：好，我想我們今年度就來做這樣的一個……"],["蘇委員巧慧：就是半年左右嘛。"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：今年年底前完成指引，好不好？"],["吳署長欣修：我們再協助他們做這樣的修正。"],["蘇委員巧慧：而且甚至應該就開始實施了，一邊看有什麼要檢討的，一邊走一邊做指引，然後年底前提出指引。"],["吳署長欣修：好，這個我們來做。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，謝謝署長，謝謝部長。"],["吳署長欣修：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蘇巧慧委員。","下一位我們請張智倫委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":46,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-18","speakers":["牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","麥玉珍","許宇甄","王美惠","黃捷","李柏毅","徐欣瑩","林俊憲","徐富癸","張雅琳","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","高金素梅","邱鎮軍","丁學忠"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-08"],"gazette_id":"1144701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、國家住宅及都市更新中心董事長就「都市更新與危老重建之執行成效及未\n來展望」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具「都市更新條例增訂第四十\n四條之一條文草案」案；三、審查委員賴惠員等23人擬具「都市危險及老舊建築物加速重建條例\n第三條及第十一條條文修正草案」案【第一案至第三案綜合詢答並處理法律提案】","agenda_id":"1144701_00001"}}}