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\"那可是我們現在因為看到因為川普的關稅政策我們編列了一個4100億的一個特別預算我們看到裡面的老宅修繕這個部分的就是內政部現在還在研議的這個部分有規劃了50億鎖定了500棟的老舊集合住宅來去做這樣子的一個補助\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 121.912, \"end\": 122.072, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 122.072, \"end\": 122.212, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 122.212, \"end\": 122.352, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 122.352, \"end\": 122.733, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 122.733, \"end\": 123.053, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 123.053, \"end\": 123.373, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 123.373, \"end\": 123.573, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 123.573, \"end\": 123.833, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 123.833, \"end\": 124.053, \"score\": 0.729}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"川\", \"start\": 124.053, \"end\": 124.213, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"普\", \"start\": 124.213, \"end\": 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\"謝謝張委員的關心也非常謝謝張委員的支持確實沒有錯我們在跟國發會請議的時候有提到老宅延壽原先是要放到115年開始的年度預算但是後來因為國發會他也發布了現在我們台灣已經進入超高齡的社會\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 187.378, \"end\": 187.538, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 187.538, \"end\": 187.598, \"score\": 0.57}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 187.598, \"end\": 187.618, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 187.618, \"end\": 187.758, \"score\": 0.625}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 187.758, \"end\": 187.778, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 187.778, \"end\": 187.879, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 187.879, \"end\": 187.899, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 187.899, \"end\": 187.959, \"score\": 0.337}, {\"word\": \"支\", \"start\": 187.959, \"end\": 188.079, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 188.079, \"end\": 188.099, 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{\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 190.021, \"end\": 190.041, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 190.041, \"end\": 190.061, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 190.061, \"end\": 190.081, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"超\", \"start\": 190.081, \"end\": 190.101, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 190.101, \"end\": 190.221, \"score\": 0.726}, {\"word\": \"齡\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 190.221, \"end\": 190.361, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 190.361, \"end\": 190.381, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}]}, {\"start\": 205.976, \"end\": 233.399, \"text\": \"那我們也提到就是有關社宅的部分社宅在請這個老人家自己在搬出去到社宅的時候他們不願意離開原來的這個生活區域所以我們就提到老宅延壽這樣子的一個概念那獲得各界的支持因為我們跟相關的公會跟單位都有進行過這方面的溝通那所以現在老宅延壽牽涉到三個面向第一個就是我們自己在內政部裡面有關於建築物本體是否安全可以做這個老宅延壽的工程\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 205.976, \"end\": 206.116, \"score\": 0.549}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 206.116, \"end\": 206.356, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 220.768, \"end\": 220.929, \"score\": 0.536}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 220.929, \"end\": 221.309, \"score\": 0.612}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 221.309, \"end\": 221.909, \"score\": 0.621}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 221.909, \"end\": 222.07, \"score\": 0.542}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 222.07, \"end\": 222.19, \"score\": 0.558}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 222.19, \"end\": 222.91, \"score\": 0.637}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 222.91, \"end\": 223.411, \"score\": 0.678}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 223.411, \"end\": 223.551, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 223.551, \"end\": 223.671, \"score\": 0.553}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 223.671, \"end\": 223.991, \"score\": 0.621}, {\"word\": \"溝\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 223.991, \"end\": 224.692, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 224.692, \"end\": 224.852, \"score\": 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\"start\": 230.557, \"end\": 230.897, \"score\": 0.669}, {\"word\": \"築\"}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 230.897, \"end\": 231.097, \"score\": 0.638}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 231.097, \"end\": 231.558, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 231.558, \"end\": 231.718, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"否\", \"start\": 231.718, \"end\": 231.898, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 231.898, \"end\": 232.118, \"score\": 0.668}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 232.118, \"end\": 232.398, \"score\": 0.67}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 232.398, \"end\": 232.498, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 232.498, \"end\": 232.618, \"score\": 0.678}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 232.618, \"end\": 233.019, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 233.019, \"end\": 233.179, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"宅\", \"start\": 233.179, \"end\": 233.199, \"score\": 0.187}, {\"word\": \"延\", \"start\": 233.199, \"end\": 233.319, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"壽\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 233.319, \"end\": 233.359, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 233.359, \"end\": 233.379, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 233.379, \"end\": 233.399, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 234.54, \"end\": 258.4, \"text\": \"第二個就是衛福部因為他們在長照3.0的時候也要照顧老人家所以老人家在居家裡面的修繕室內修繕也會列入是屬於這個老宅延壽裡面重要的一部分那再來就是有關於老宅延壽也會牽涉到我們因應氣候變遷的節能減碳譬如說老宅有老的電線那個地方一定是非常耗電然後也非常危險性會提高\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 234.54, \"end\": 234.64, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 234.64, \"end\": 235.181, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 235.181, \"end\": 235.301, \"score\": 0.693}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 235.301, \"end\": 235.701, \"score\": 0.726}, {\"word\": \"衛\"}, {\"word\": \"福\", \"start\": 235.701, \"end\": 235.901, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 235.901, \"end\": 236.141, \"score\": 0.733}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 236.141, 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\"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 415.879, \"end\": 416.66, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 416.66, \"end\": 416.8, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 416.8, \"end\": 416.94, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 416.94, \"end\": 417.18, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 417.18, \"end\": 417.32, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 417.32, \"end\": 417.34, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"話\"}]}, {\"start\": 418.081, \"end\": 432.036, \"text\": \"可能補助比較多就一股大家就是申請特別預算那公務預算的部分就可能沒有人申請那這樣會造成這個內政部在編列預算的時候會使用這個執行率會稍微較差一點所以這邊提醒署長一下好不好那這第二個問題就是說\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 418.081, \"end\": 418.261, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 418.261, \"end\": 418.382, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 418.382, \"end\": 418.522, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 418.522, \"end\": 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\"text\": \"老屋老宅延售這個計畫非常的好那可是過去民眾都知道就是說在一些比較舊型社區的部分過去政府的一些補助就是比如說外牆拉皮或是一些電梯等等的一個部分那我請教說以項目來講會不會過去的一些我們有一些老屋拉皮或是電梯跟現在我們新的這個全新的這個老屋老宅延售的部分\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 433.772, \"end\": 433.972, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"屋\", \"start\": 433.972, \"end\": 434.532, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 434.532, \"end\": 434.792, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"宅\", \"start\": 434.792, \"end\": 434.992, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"延\", \"start\": 434.992, \"end\": 435.612, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"售\", \"start\": 435.612, \"end\": 436.112, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"畫\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 436.112, \"end\": 436.232, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 436.232, \"end\": 436.393, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 436.393, \"end\": 436.453, \"score\": 0.729}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 436.453, \"end\": 436.673, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 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\"老\", \"start\": 457.156, \"end\": 457.377, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"屋\", \"start\": 457.377, \"end\": 458.317, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 458.317, \"end\": 458.517, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"宅\", \"start\": 458.517, \"end\": 458.697, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"延\", \"start\": 458.697, \"end\": 458.917, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"售\", \"start\": 458.917, \"end\": 459.037, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 459.037, \"end\": 459.177, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 459.177, \"end\": 459.337, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 459.337, \"end\": 459.357, \"score\": 0.72}]}, {\"start\": 460.057, \"end\": 485.462, \"text\": \"他的申請的項目是不是有些重複那未來內政部或國土署這邊是不是可以做一個區分跟我們報告最主要他是因為程序上不同他程序上就有點像現在的都更裡面有分都更跟危老兩種制度一樣那第一個對象不同因為我們大概是四到六樓他比較沒有內政疑慮的那第二個就是說他是不一定要經過管委會的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 460.057, \"end\": 460.177, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 460.177, \"end\": 460.317, 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00:00:53,807\n主要是為了讓民眾修善房屋公共區域以及室內空間提供補助以及未來會結合衛福部長照3.0讓長者在宅安心養老那我們也可以看到齁最近的這個新聞稿齁我放在桌上我去拿一下時間暫停一下抱歉時間暫停資料太多了好謝謝主席齁\n\n4\n00:01:03,476 --> 00:01:31,481\n那我們在這個內政部在3月5號的新聞稿裡面更明確的講出內政部在今年2月的時候的記者會宣布要全新的一個政策叫做老屋顏色計劃針對30年以上四到六樓的房子初步提供全面的這個住宅提供室內外的修繕經費包含管線更新建物立體立面修繕就是我們俗稱的拉皮\n\n5\n00:01:34,102 --> 00:01:58,982\n屋頂防水增設電梯增加無障礙設施等等補助上限是50%屆時想要延長我們建屋的使用年限我覺得這些都非常利益良善那這個內容其實剛剛部長有特別提到內政部會與這屆持續溝通在內容完備以後會請行政院核定必據執行那現在的狀況來講應該是還在研議當中\n\n6\n00:02:01,912 --> 00:02:22,663\n那可是我們現在因為看到因為川普的關稅政策我們編列了一個4100億的一個特別預算我們看到裡面的老宅修繕這個部分的就是內政部現在還在研議的這個部分有規劃了50億鎖定了500棟的老舊集合住宅來去做這樣子的一個補助\n\n7\n00:02:24,110 --> 00:02:41,238\n現在我先跟部長報告這個計劃因為我相信這個4100億的現在特別預算這個三個黨都有提出版本那本黨現在也是支持這樣老於年瘦的一個部分不過因為這個計劃原本是在115年要來推的這個計劃不管是放在公務預算公建計劃還是放在基金裡面\n\n8\n00:02:42,719 --> 00:03:05,637\n那現在是要把它提早列為特別預算裡面那所以等一下要請教部長就是說是不是因為特別預算會有一個急迫性或是一個特別必要性那是不是就是在內政部裡面已經有準備好了要把它放在特別預算的裡面嗎那民眾可以來運用的時候它的整體的計畫你們是不是已經整個都已經規劃好了請部長回答\n\n9\n00:03:07,378 --> 00:03:10,381\n謝謝張委員的關心也非常謝謝張委員的支持確實沒有錯我們在跟國發會請議的時候有提到老宅延壽原先是要放到115年開始的年度預算但是後來因為國發會他也發布了現在我們台灣已經進入超高齡的社會\n\n10\n00:03:25,976 --> 00:03:53,399\n那我們也提到就是有關社宅的部分社宅在請這個老人家自己在搬出去到社宅的時候他們不願意離開原來的這個生活區域所以我們就提到老宅延壽這樣子的一個概念那獲得各界的支持因為我們跟相關的公會跟單位都有進行過這方面的溝通那所以現在老宅延壽牽涉到三個面向第一個就是我們自己在內政部裡面有關於建築物本體是否安全可以做這個老宅延壽的工程\n\n11\n00:03:54,540 --> 00:04:18,400\n第二個就是衛福部因為他們在長照3.0的時候也要照顧老人家所以老人家在居家裡面的修繕室內修繕也會列入是屬於這個老宅延壽裡面重要的一部分那再來就是有關於老宅延壽也會牽涉到我們因應氣候變遷的節能減碳譬如說老宅有老的電線那個地方一定是非常耗電然後也非常危險性會提高\n\n12\n00:04:19,281 --> 00:04:46,467\n所以我們是這個三項一起進行的時候呢行政院認為可以列入這次的特別預算所以給予50億元這樣子的Quota讓內政部跟其他部位來解釋的確啦因為這4100億原本是因應寬普的關稅政策那剛剛在部長解釋雖然說跟寬普的關稅政策的相連性不是那麼的高可是因為現在其實台灣社會因為老宅比較多是有需要的所以部長的解釋是OK不過現在要請教部長的就是說因為是列在特別的預算\n\n13\n00:04:47,367 --> 00:05:03,168\n那剛剛我剛有特別跟您報告過在115年的時候補助上限以每一個民眾來講補助上限是50%那請教一下在特別預算的裡面因為過去在特別預算裡面如果申請補助的時候補助的上限都是100%\n\n14\n00:05:04,449 --> 00:05:25,548\n就我的了解是不是都百分之百那這樣子的補助會不會有一個這個網內互打的一個問題就是我去申請特別預算的時候補助會提較高那我去115年申請公務預算的時候補助只有50%這樣子的落差還有裡面中間的還有等一下還有請教這是補助預算的一個部分先來做請教等一下再做細項的部分來去做請教\n\n15\n00:05:26,549 --> 00:05:32,671\n其實我們有設算這兩者之間應該不會有矛盾內容詳細大概補助的金額的比例大概是怎麼樣我們會定高限其實要不要50%不是特別預算會多少不是說明一下因為它過程當中是會有發包的問題\n\n16\n00:05:49,858 --> 00:06:18,321\n所以我們現在在訂立這一個部分的時候我們大概會區分為公共區域跟市內區域來做不同的設算比例設算因為公共區域是屬於整棟大樓要共有所以它會有所謂是不是屬於公共發包的問題那但是市內修繕的部分它屬於個案申請的部分那是可以作為調整的所以這個部分我們會有做好比較詳細的設算以後也會跟行政院做報告所以它是可以允許不同比例\n\n17\n00:06:18,781 --> 00:06:37,299\n所以我的意思是說會不會在115年的時候老屋延壽計畫因為這是115年老屋延壽計畫你們的新聞稿說補助上限就50%那現在在特別預算的裡面因為特別預算是比較寬鬆的允許有不同射算所以有不同射算所以民眾會不會申請特別預算的時候的補助會比較高\n\n18\n00:06:37,619 --> 00:06:57,340\n比較多會不會有這樣的問題是有可能所以這邊就是我要請署長跟部長去了解的那這樣子的話大家都會趕著去申請特別預算那特別預算有個特別的點是在116年的12月31號到期所以變成說可能就是說那這樣我們的公務預算可能就會兩邊會有一個差異就民眾會覺得說用特別預算的話\n\n19\n00:06:58,081 --> 00:07:12,036\n可能補助比較多就一股大家就是申請特別預算那公務預算的部分就可能沒有人申請那這樣會造成這個內政部在編列預算的時候會使用這個執行率會稍微較差一點所以這邊提醒署長一下好不好那這第二個問題就是說\n\n20\n00:07:13,772 --> 00:07:39,357\n老屋老宅延售這個計畫非常的好那可是過去民眾都知道就是說在一些比較舊型社區的部分過去政府的一些補助就是比如說外牆拉皮或是一些電梯等等的一個部分那我請教說以項目來講會不會過去的一些我們有一些老屋拉皮或是電梯跟現在我們新的這個全新的這個老屋老宅延售的部分\n\n21\n00:07:40,057 --> 00:08:05,462\n他的申請的項目是不是有些重複那未來內政部或國土署這邊是不是可以做一個區分跟我們報告最主要他是因為程序上不同他程序上就有點像現在的都更裡面有分都更跟危老兩種制度一樣那第一個對象不同因為我們大概是四到六樓他比較沒有內政疑慮的那第二個就是說他是不一定要經過管委會的\n\n22\n00:08:05,902 --> 00:08:24,493\n那都更整委他是必須要透過管委會所以他相對是規模比較大那這種是允許小規模的可能他是十幾戶或甚至只有八戶那這樣的方式其實是可以加速他來申請那第三個就是說內容上其實對這一個特別條例來講他可以整修的項目範圍更廣\n\n23\n00:08:26,094 --> 00:08:50,333\n好我要解釋過去擴大範圍嘛那同一比例是不是比如說未來使用老屋顏色同一比例是不是要百分之百以一整棟樓來講同一比例大概多少大概百分之百嘛所以應該還是有它的困難不過我很樂見不管是內政部或國土署放寬未來老屋整修的一個整個範圍那過去其實大家也說嘛很多公共空間比如說連燈都沒有辦法\n\n24\n00:08:50,993 --> 00:09:19,852\n都燈都是不亮的其實這些都有機會納入整個未來的整個範圍內是好謝謝那我本席是樂見這樣子的一個測試那最後的問題就是再請教一下因為剛剛也講特別提到零四零三大地震那已經從去年已經發生了一年那請教部長跟署長有沒有統計之前被列成紅單跟黃單的部分現在整個的處理進度如何是不是還算很多的房子\n\n25\n00:09:21,222 --> 00:09:38,818\n想要重建或是現在很多的住戶因為已經被列成紅單跟黃單不管是他的所持有的財產的資產的價值減損那現在也沒有辦法住在裡面這等問題那現在這樣子的問題是不是你們統計還有多少那未來你們會考慮要怎麼樣解決這些這些受災戶\n\n26\n00:09:39,699 --> 00:10:07,715\n了解感謝委員其實在因為本部大概專注在處理花蓮的部分花蓮目前大概都有進入程序當中不管他是走耐震補強或者是走重建的部分都有進入到程序了那我知道現在在新北那又或在桃園因為住戶意見整合的過程當中有比較辛苦所以縣市政府都很努力但是也有卡到意見整合的這個部分\n\n27\n00:10:08,175 --> 00:10:30,435\n你們有沒有想說剛剛有說當然我是一個大家可以討論剛剛有提到特別的要公辦督工不知道是不是一個很好的方式那在其他縣市是不是慢慢有機會就是說政府怎麼樣去協助有沒有一些考量這個部分我想我們來了解一下看雙北就是新北跟桃園看它目前的過往當中大致上有遇到什麼樣的問題那我們看來了解看看是不是要\n\n28\n00:10:31,393 --> 00:10:54,318\n能夠給予一些協助主席最後一個問題就是我常跟部長跟署長建議跟拜託的因為因應0403大地震之後其實很多的房子尤其台灣很多的年紀比較已經三四十年以上的屋齡的房子非常的多我一直在討論像現在這樣的特別條例特別的預算\n\n29\n00:10:54,878 --> 00:11:20,923\n或是未來的整個的公務預算是不是有可能加入一些老屋建檢一些初檢的一個方式來把它擴大就是說我不知道我的房子未來這個比如說四層樓五層樓六層樓的老宅未來能不能因應幾級的地震那比如說我的房子我可以來跟政府單位申請這個老屋建檢的一些補助然後未來可以知道說我的房子現在未來的狀況怎麼樣讓整個\n\n30\n00:11:23,864 --> 00:11:46,863\n跟委員報告啦其實我們現在就有這樣的一個制度啦因為那每年大家編入多少預算民眾好不好申請我們其實都是受理然後每年額度其實都夠那但是目前來講全台灣申請大概只有接近兩萬件兩萬件因為大概出品的部分大概是一萬二到一萬五那當然普遍可能會是有些民眾會擔心會\n\n31\n00:11:49,885 --> 00:12:06,779\n建檢出來的結果如果不理想的話很可能會影響自己的房屋價值那所以我們到目前編列有預算但是事實上申請的數量沒有很多那署長這邊未來要推廣嗎還是說未來總不能說每次遇到地震以後在這些受災戶都很辛苦\n\n32\n00:12:07,119 --> 00:12:27,999\n根文報告我們在做老宅延壽這個案子的時候其實同步也是在做這個健檢也就是說他有耐震的出品出品這個部分都有納入一起來實施所以民眾若有興趣的話其實都來申請我想我們都會所以在做老宅健檢的時候意思就是說你們會推廣就是老屋健檢好謝謝部長署長謝謝謝謝張志倫委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1240\t8709\t好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早有請劉世芳部長跟吳新修署長劉部長吳署長有請張委員早\n14292\t33257\t好 部長好 署長好好 今天要討論的是這個都市更新跟危老重建的相關的議題那剛剛公安部長有特別提到在這個內政部在明年度即將推動老宅延壽計畫這是一個新的計畫我覺得非常好\n33797\t53807\t主要是為了讓民眾修善房屋公共區域以及室內空間提供補助以及未來會結合衛福部長照3.0讓長者在宅安心養老那我們也可以看到齁最近的這個新聞稿齁我放在桌上我去拿一下時間暫停一下抱歉時間暫停資料太多了好謝謝主席齁\n63476\t91481\t那我們在這個內政部在3月5號的新聞稿裡面更明確的講出內政部在今年2月的時候的記者會宣布要全新的一個政策叫做老屋顏色計劃針對30年以上四到六樓的房子初步提供全面的這個住宅提供室內外的修繕經費包含管線更新建物立體立面修繕就是我們俗稱的拉皮\n94102\t118982\t屋頂防水增設電梯增加無障礙設施等等補助上限是50%屆時想要延長我們建屋的使用年限我覺得這些都非常利益良善那這個內容其實剛剛部長有特別提到內政部會與這屆持續溝通在內容完備以後會請行政院核定必據執行那現在的狀況來講應該是還在研議當中\n121912\t142663\t那可是我們現在因為看到因為川普的關稅政策我們編列了一個4100億的一個特別預算我們看到裡面的老宅修繕這個部分的就是內政部現在還在研議的這個部分有規劃了50億鎖定了500棟的老舊集合住宅來去做這樣子的一個補助\n144110\t161238\t現在我先跟部長報告這個計劃因為我相信這個4100億的現在特別預算這個三個黨都有提出版本那本黨現在也是支持這樣老於年瘦的一個部分不過因為這個計劃原本是在115年要來推的這個計劃不管是放在公務預算公建計劃還是放在基金裡面\n162719\t185637\t那現在是要把它提早列為特別預算裡面那所以等一下要請教部長就是說是不是因為特別預算會有一個急迫性或是一個特別必要性那是不是就是在內政部裡面已經有準備好了要把它放在特別預算的裡面嗎那民眾可以來運用的時候它的整體的計畫你們是不是已經整個都已經規劃好了請部長回答\n187378\t190381\t謝謝張委員的關心也非常謝謝張委員的支持確實沒有錯我們在跟國發會請議的時候有提到老宅延壽原先是要放到115年開始的年度預算但是後來因為國發會他也發布了現在我們台灣已經進入超高齡的社會\n205976\t233399\t那我們也提到就是有關社宅的部分社宅在請這個老人家自己在搬出去到社宅的時候他們不願意離開原來的這個生活區域所以我們就提到老宅延壽這樣子的一個概念那獲得各界的支持因為我們跟相關的公會跟單位都有進行過這方面的溝通那所以現在老宅延壽牽涉到三個面向第一個就是我們自己在內政部裡面有關於建築物本體是否安全可以做這個老宅延壽的工程\n234540\t258400\t第二個就是衛福部因為他們在長照3.0的時候也要照顧老人家所以老人家在居家裡面的修繕室內修繕也會列入是屬於這個老宅延壽裡面重要的一部分那再來就是有關於老宅延壽也會牽涉到我們因應氣候變遷的節能減碳譬如說老宅有老的電線那個地方一定是非常耗電然後也非常危險性會提高\n259281\t286467\t所以我們是這個三項一起進行的時候呢行政院認為可以列入這次的特別預算所以給予50億元這樣子的Quota讓內政部跟其他部位來解釋的確啦因為這4100億原本是因應寬普的關稅政策那剛剛在部長解釋雖然說跟寬普的關稅政策的相連性不是那麼的高可是因為現在其實台灣社會因為老宅比較多是有需要的所以部長的解釋是OK不過現在要請教部長的就是說因為是列在特別的預算\n287367\t303168\t那剛剛我剛有特別跟您報告過在115年的時候補助上限以每一個民眾來講補助上限是50%那請教一下在特別預算的裡面因為過去在特別預算裡面如果申請補助的時候補助的上限都是100%\n304449\t325548\t就我的了解是不是都百分之百那這樣子的補助會不會有一個這個網內互打的一個問題就是我去申請特別預算的時候補助會提較高那我去115年申請公務預算的時候補助只有50%這樣子的落差還有裡面中間的還有等一下還有請教這是補助預算的一個部分先來做請教等一下再做細項的部分來去做請教\n326549\t332671\t其實我們有設算 這兩者之間應該不會有矛盾內容詳細大概補助的金額的比例大概是怎麼樣我們會定高限其實要不要50%不是特別預算會多少不是說明一下 因為它過程當中是會有發包的問題\n349858\t378321\t所以我們現在在訂立這一個部分的時候我們大概會區分為公共區域跟市內區域來做不同的設算比例設算因為公共區域是屬於整棟大樓要共有所以它會有所謂是不是屬於公共發包的問題那但是市內修繕的部分它屬於個案申請的部分那是可以作為調整的所以這個部分我們會有做好比較詳細的設算以後也會跟行政院做報告所以它是可以允許不同比例\n378781\t397299\t所以我的意思是說會不會在115年的時候老屋延壽計畫因為這是115年老屋延壽計畫你們的新聞稿說補助上限就50%那現在在特別預算的裡面因為特別預算是比較寬鬆的允許有不同射算所以有不同射算所以民眾會不會申請特別預算的時候的補助會比較高\n397619\t417340\t比較多會不會有這樣的問題是有可能所以這邊就是我要請署長跟部長去了解的那這樣子的話大家都會趕著去申請特別預算那特別預算有個特別的點是在116年的12月31號到期所以變成說可能就是說那這樣我們的公務預算可能就會兩邊會有一個差異就民眾會覺得說用特別預算的話\n418081\t432036\t可能補助比較多就一股大家就是申請特別預算那公務預算的部分就可能沒有人申請那這樣會造成這個內政部在編列預算的時候會使用這個執行率會稍微較差一點所以這邊提醒署長一下好不好那這第二個問題就是說\n433772\t459357\t老屋老宅延售這個計畫非常的好那可是過去民眾都知道就是說在一些比較舊型社區的部分過去政府的一些補助就是比如說外牆拉皮或是一些電梯等等的一個部分那我請教說以項目來講會不會過去的一些我們有一些老屋拉皮或是電梯跟現在我們新的這個全新的這個老屋老宅延售的部分\n460057\t485462\t他的申請的項目是不是有些重複那未來內政部或國土署這邊是不是可以做一個區分跟我們報告最主要他是因為程序上不同他程序上就有點像現在的都更裡面有分都更跟危老兩種制度一樣那第一個對象不同因為我們大概是四到六樓他比較沒有內政疑慮的那第二個就是說他是不一定要經過管委會的\n485902\t504493\t那都更整委他是必須要透過管委會所以他相對是規模比較大那這種是允許小規模的可能他是十幾戶或甚至只有八戶那這樣的方式其實是可以加速他來申請那第三個就是說內容上其實對這一個特別條例來講他可以整修的項目範圍更廣\n506094\t530333\t好 我要解釋過去擴大範圍嘛那同一比例是不是 比如說未來使用老屋顏色同一比例是不是要百分之百以一整棟樓來講 同一比例大概多少大概百分之百嘛 所以應該還是有它的困難不過我很樂見 不管是內政部或國土署放寬未來老屋整修的一個整個範圍那過去其實大家也說嘛 很多公共空間比如說連燈都沒有辦法\n530993\t559852\t都燈都是不亮的其實這些都有機會納入整個未來的整個範圍內是好謝謝那我本席是樂見這樣子的一個測試那最後的問題就是再請教一下因為剛剛也講特別提到零四零三大地震那已經從去年已經發生了一年那請教部長跟署長有沒有統計之前被列成紅單跟黃單的部分現在整個的處理進度如何是不是還算很多的房子\n561222\t578818\t想要重建或是現在很多的住戶因為已經被列成紅單跟黃單不管是他的所持有的財產的資產的價值減損那現在也沒有辦法住在裡面這等問題那現在這樣子的問題是不是你們統計還有多少那未來你們會考慮要怎麼樣解決這些這些受災戶\n579699\t607715\t了解 感謝委員其實在因為本部大概專注在處理花蓮的部分花蓮目前大概都有進入程序當中不管他是走耐震補強或者是走重建的部分都有進入到程序了那我知道現在在新北那又或在桃園因為住戶意見整合的過程當中有比較辛苦所以縣市政府都很努力但是也有卡到意見整合的這個部分\n608175\t630435\t你們有沒有想說剛剛有說當然我是一個大家可以討論剛剛有提到特別的要公辦督工不知道是不是一個很好的方式那在其他縣市是不是慢慢有機會就是說政府怎麼樣去協助有沒有一些考量這個部分我想我們來了解一下看雙北就是新北跟桃園看它目前的過往當中大致上有遇到什麼樣的問題那我們看來了解看看是不是要\n631393\t654318\t能夠給予一些協助主席最後一個問題就是我常跟部長跟署長建議跟拜託的因為因應0403大地震之後其實很多的房子尤其台灣很多的年紀比較已經三四十年以上的屋齡的房子非常的多我一直在討論像現在這樣的特別條例特別的預算\n654878\t680923\t或是未來的整個的公務預算是不是有可能加入一些老屋建檢一些初檢的一個方式來把它擴大就是說我不知道我的房子未來這個比如說四層樓五層樓六層樓的老宅未來能不能因應幾級的地震那比如說我的房子我可以來跟政府單位申請這個老屋建檢的一些補助然後未來可以知道說我的房子現在未來的狀況怎麼樣讓整個\n683864\t706863\t跟委員報告啦 其實我們現在就有這樣的一個制度啦 因為那每年大家編入多少預算 民眾好不好申請我們其實都是受理 然後每年額度其實都夠那但是目前來講 全台灣申請大概只有接近兩萬件兩萬件 因為大概出品的部分大概是一萬二到一萬五那當然普遍 可能會是有些民眾會擔心 會\n709885\t726779\t建檢出來的結果如果不理想的話很可能會影響自己的房屋價值那所以我們到目前編列有預算但是事實上申請的數量沒有很多那署長這邊未來要推廣嗎還是說未來總不能說每次遇到地震以後在這些受災戶都很辛苦\n727119\t747999\t根文報告我們在做老宅延壽這個案子的時候其實同步也是在做這個健檢也就是說他有耐震的出品出品這個部分都有納入一起來實施所以民眾若有興趣的話其實都來申請我想我們都會所以在做老宅健檢的時候意思就是說你們會推廣就是老屋健檢好謝謝部長署長謝謝謝謝張志倫委員\n","txt":"好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早有請劉世芳部長跟吳新修署長劉部長吳署長有請張委員早\n好 部長好 署長好好 今天要討論的是這個都市更新跟危老重建的相關的議題那剛剛公安部長有特別提到在這個內政部在明年度即將推動老宅延壽計畫這是一個新的計畫我覺得非常好\n主要是為了讓民眾修善房屋公共區域以及室內空間提供補助以及未來會結合衛福部長照3.0讓長者在宅安心養老那我們也可以看到齁最近的這個新聞稿齁我放在桌上我去拿一下時間暫停一下抱歉時間暫停資料太多了好謝謝主席齁\n那我們在這個內政部在3月5號的新聞稿裡面更明確的講出內政部在今年2月的時候的記者會宣布要全新的一個政策叫做老屋顏色計劃針對30年以上四到六樓的房子初步提供全面的這個住宅提供室內外的修繕經費包含管線更新建物立體立面修繕就是我們俗稱的拉皮\n屋頂防水增設電梯增加無障礙設施等等補助上限是50%屆時想要延長我們建屋的使用年限我覺得這些都非常利益良善那這個內容其實剛剛部長有特別提到內政部會與這屆持續溝通在內容完備以後會請行政院核定必據執行那現在的狀況來講應該是還在研議當中\n那可是我們現在因為看到因為川普的關稅政策我們編列了一個4100億的一個特別預算我們看到裡面的老宅修繕這個部分的就是內政部現在還在研議的這個部分有規劃了50億鎖定了500棟的老舊集合住宅來去做這樣子的一個補助\n現在我先跟部長報告這個計劃因為我相信這個4100億的現在特別預算這個三個黨都有提出版本那本黨現在也是支持這樣老於年瘦的一個部分不過因為這個計劃原本是在115年要來推的這個計劃不管是放在公務預算公建計劃還是放在基金裡面\n那現在是要把它提早列為特別預算裡面那所以等一下要請教部長就是說是不是因為特別預算會有一個急迫性或是一個特別必要性那是不是就是在內政部裡面已經有準備好了要把它放在特別預算的裡面嗎那民眾可以來運用的時候它的整體的計畫你們是不是已經整個都已經規劃好了請部長回答\n謝謝張委員的關心也非常謝謝張委員的支持確實沒有錯我們在跟國發會請議的時候有提到老宅延壽原先是要放到115年開始的年度預算但是後來因為國發會他也發布了現在我們台灣已經進入超高齡的社會\n那我們也提到就是有關社宅的部分社宅在請這個老人家自己在搬出去到社宅的時候他們不願意離開原來的這個生活區域所以我們就提到老宅延壽這樣子的一個概念那獲得各界的支持因為我們跟相關的公會跟單位都有進行過這方面的溝通那所以現在老宅延壽牽涉到三個面向第一個就是我們自己在內政部裡面有關於建築物本體是否安全可以做這個老宅延壽的工程\n第二個就是衛福部因為他們在長照3.0的時候也要照顧老人家所以老人家在居家裡面的修繕室內修繕也會列入是屬於這個老宅延壽裡面重要的一部分那再來就是有關於老宅延壽也會牽涉到我們因應氣候變遷的節能減碳譬如說老宅有老的電線那個地方一定是非常耗電然後也非常危險性會提高\n所以我們是這個三項一起進行的時候呢行政院認為可以列入這次的特別預算所以給予50億元這樣子的Quota讓內政部跟其他部位來解釋的確啦因為這4100億原本是因應寬普的關稅政策那剛剛在部長解釋雖然說跟寬普的關稅政策的相連性不是那麼的高可是因為現在其實台灣社會因為老宅比較多是有需要的所以部長的解釋是OK不過現在要請教部長的就是說因為是列在特別的預算\n那剛剛我剛有特別跟您報告過在115年的時候補助上限以每一個民眾來講補助上限是50%那請教一下在特別預算的裡面因為過去在特別預算裡面如果申請補助的時候補助的上限都是100%\n就我的了解是不是都百分之百那這樣子的補助會不會有一個這個網內互打的一個問題就是我去申請特別預算的時候補助會提較高那我去115年申請公務預算的時候補助只有50%這樣子的落差還有裡面中間的還有等一下還有請教這是補助預算的一個部分先來做請教等一下再做細項的部分來去做請教\n其實我們有設算 這兩者之間應該不會有矛盾內容詳細大概補助的金額的比例大概是怎麼樣我們會定高限其實要不要50%不是特別預算會多少不是說明一下 因為它過程當中是會有發包的問題\n所以我們現在在訂立這一個部分的時候我們大概會區分為公共區域跟市內區域來做不同的設算比例設算因為公共區域是屬於整棟大樓要共有所以它會有所謂是不是屬於公共發包的問題那但是市內修繕的部分它屬於個案申請的部分那是可以作為調整的所以這個部分我們會有做好比較詳細的設算以後也會跟行政院做報告所以它是可以允許不同比例\n所以我的意思是說會不會在115年的時候老屋延壽計畫因為這是115年老屋延壽計畫你們的新聞稿說補助上限就50%那現在在特別預算的裡面因為特別預算是比較寬鬆的允許有不同射算所以有不同射算所以民眾會不會申請特別預算的時候的補助會比較高\n比較多會不會有這樣的問題是有可能所以這邊就是我要請署長跟部長去了解的那這樣子的話大家都會趕著去申請特別預算那特別預算有個特別的點是在116年的12月31號到期所以變成說可能就是說那這樣我們的公務預算可能就會兩邊會有一個差異就民眾會覺得說用特別預算的話\n可能補助比較多就一股大家就是申請特別預算那公務預算的部分就可能沒有人申請那這樣會造成這個內政部在編列預算的時候會使用這個執行率會稍微較差一點所以這邊提醒署長一下好不好那這第二個問題就是說\n老屋老宅延售這個計畫非常的好那可是過去民眾都知道就是說在一些比較舊型社區的部分過去政府的一些補助就是比如說外牆拉皮或是一些電梯等等的一個部分那我請教說以項目來講會不會過去的一些我們有一些老屋拉皮或是電梯跟現在我們新的這個全新的這個老屋老宅延售的部分\n他的申請的項目是不是有些重複那未來內政部或國土署這邊是不是可以做一個區分跟我們報告最主要他是因為程序上不同他程序上就有點像現在的都更裡面有分都更跟危老兩種制度一樣那第一個對象不同因為我們大概是四到六樓他比較沒有內政疑慮的那第二個就是說他是不一定要經過管委會的\n那都更整委他是必須要透過管委會所以他相對是規模比較大那這種是允許小規模的可能他是十幾戶或甚至只有八戶那這樣的方式其實是可以加速他來申請那第三個就是說內容上其實對這一個特別條例來講他可以整修的項目範圍更廣\n好 我要解釋過去擴大範圍嘛那同一比例是不是 比如說未來使用老屋顏色同一比例是不是要百分之百以一整棟樓來講 同一比例大概多少大概百分之百嘛 所以應該還是有它的困難不過我很樂見 不管是內政部或國土署放寬未來老屋整修的一個整個範圍那過去其實大家也說嘛 很多公共空間比如說連燈都沒有辦法\n都燈都是不亮的其實這些都有機會納入整個未來的整個範圍內是好謝謝那我本席是樂見這樣子的一個測試那最後的問題就是再請教一下因為剛剛也講特別提到零四零三大地震那已經從去年已經發生了一年那請教部長跟署長有沒有統計之前被列成紅單跟黃單的部分現在整個的處理進度如何是不是還算很多的房子\n想要重建或是現在很多的住戶因為已經被列成紅單跟黃單不管是他的所持有的財產的資產的價值減損那現在也沒有辦法住在裡面這等問題那現在這樣子的問題是不是你們統計還有多少那未來你們會考慮要怎麼樣解決這些這些受災戶\n了解 感謝委員其實在因為本部大概專注在處理花蓮的部分花蓮目前大概都有進入程序當中不管他是走耐震補強或者是走重建的部分都有進入到程序了那我知道現在在新北那又或在桃園因為住戶意見整合的過程當中有比較辛苦所以縣市政府都很努力但是也有卡到意見整合的這個部分\n你們有沒有想說剛剛有說當然我是一個大家可以討論剛剛有提到特別的要公辦督工不知道是不是一個很好的方式那在其他縣市是不是慢慢有機會就是說政府怎麼樣去協助有沒有一些考量這個部分我想我們來了解一下看雙北就是新北跟桃園看它目前的過往當中大致上有遇到什麼樣的問題那我們看來了解看看是不是要\n能夠給予一些協助主席最後一個問題就是我常跟部長跟署長建議跟拜託的因為因應0403大地震之後其實很多的房子尤其台灣很多的年紀比較已經三四十年以上的屋齡的房子非常的多我一直在討論像現在這樣的特別條例特別的預算\n或是未來的整個的公務預算是不是有可能加入一些老屋建檢一些初檢的一個方式來把它擴大就是說我不知道我的房子未來這個比如說四層樓五層樓六層樓的老宅未來能不能因應幾級的地震那比如說我的房子我可以來跟政府單位申請這個老屋建檢的一些補助然後未來可以知道說我的房子現在未來的狀況怎麼樣讓整個\n跟委員報告啦 其實我們現在就有這樣的一個制度啦 因為那每年大家編入多少預算 民眾好不好申請我們其實都是受理 然後每年額度其實都夠那但是目前來講 全台灣申請大概只有接近兩萬件兩萬件 因為大概出品的部分大概是一萬二到一萬五那當然普遍 可能會是有些民眾會擔心 會\n建檢出來的結果如果不理想的話很可能會影響自己的房屋價值那所以我們到目前編列有預算但是事實上申請的數量沒有很多那署長這邊未來要推廣嗎還是說未來總不能說每次遇到地震以後在這些受災戶都很辛苦\n根文報告我們在做老宅延壽這個案子的時候其實同步也是在做這個健檢也就是說他有耐震的出品出品這個部分都有納入一起來實施所以民眾若有興趣的話其實都來申請我想我們都會所以在做老宅健檢的時候意思就是說你們會推廣就是老屋健檢好謝謝部長署長謝謝謝謝張志倫委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.240 --> 00:08.709\n好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早有請劉世芳部長跟吳新修署長劉部長吳署長有請張委員早\n\n00:14.292 --> 00:33.257\n好部長好署長好好今天要討論的是這個都市更新跟危老重建的相關的議題那剛剛公安部長有特別提到在這個內政部在明年度即將推動老宅延壽計畫這是一個新的計畫我覺得非常好\n\n00:33.797 --> 00:53.807\n主要是為了讓民眾修善房屋公共區域以及室內空間提供補助以及未來會結合衛福部長照3.0讓長者在宅安心養老那我們也可以看到齁最近的這個新聞稿齁我放在桌上我去拿一下時間暫停一下抱歉時間暫停資料太多了好謝謝主席齁\n\n01:03.476 --> 01:31.481\n那我們在這個內政部在3月5號的新聞稿裡面更明確的講出內政部在今年2月的時候的記者會宣布要全新的一個政策叫做老屋顏色計劃針對30年以上四到六樓的房子初步提供全面的這個住宅提供室內外的修繕經費包含管線更新建物立體立面修繕就是我們俗稱的拉皮\n\n01:34.102 --> 01:58.982\n屋頂防水增設電梯增加無障礙設施等等補助上限是50%屆時想要延長我們建屋的使用年限我覺得這些都非常利益良善那這個內容其實剛剛部長有特別提到內政部會與這屆持續溝通在內容完備以後會請行政院核定必據執行那現在的狀況來講應該是還在研議當中\n\n02:01.912 --> 02:22.663\n那可是我們現在因為看到因為川普的關稅政策我們編列了一個4100億的一個特別預算我們看到裡面的老宅修繕這個部分的就是內政部現在還在研議的這個部分有規劃了50億鎖定了500棟的老舊集合住宅來去做這樣子的一個補助\n\n02:24.110 --> 02:41.238\n現在我先跟部長報告這個計劃因為我相信這個4100億的現在特別預算這個三個黨都有提出版本那本黨現在也是支持這樣老於年瘦的一個部分不過因為這個計劃原本是在115年要來推的這個計劃不管是放在公務預算公建計劃還是放在基金裡面\n\n02:42.719 --> 03:05.637\n那現在是要把它提早列為特別預算裡面那所以等一下要請教部長就是說是不是因為特別預算會有一個急迫性或是一個特別必要性那是不是就是在內政部裡面已經有準備好了要把它放在特別預算的裡面嗎那民眾可以來運用的時候它的整體的計畫你們是不是已經整個都已經規劃好了請部長回答\n\n03:07.378 --> 03:10.381\n謝謝張委員的關心也非常謝謝張委員的支持確實沒有錯我們在跟國發會請議的時候有提到老宅延壽原先是要放到115年開始的年度預算但是後來因為國發會他也發布了現在我們台灣已經進入超高齡的社會\n\n03:25.976 --> 03:53.399\n那我們也提到就是有關社宅的部分社宅在請這個老人家自己在搬出去到社宅的時候他們不願意離開原來的這個生活區域所以我們就提到老宅延壽這樣子的一個概念那獲得各界的支持因為我們跟相關的公會跟單位都有進行過這方面的溝通那所以現在老宅延壽牽涉到三個面向第一個就是我們自己在內政部裡面有關於建築物本體是否安全可以做這個老宅延壽的工程\n\n03:54.540 --> 04:18.400\n第二個就是衛福部因為他們在長照3.0的時候也要照顧老人家所以老人家在居家裡面的修繕室內修繕也會列入是屬於這個老宅延壽裡面重要的一部分那再來就是有關於老宅延壽也會牽涉到我們因應氣候變遷的節能減碳譬如說老宅有老的電線那個地方一定是非常耗電然後也非常危險性會提高\n\n04:19.281 --> 04:46.467\n所以我們是這個三項一起進行的時候呢行政院認為可以列入這次的特別預算所以給予50億元這樣子的Quota讓內政部跟其他部位來解釋的確啦因為這4100億原本是因應寬普的關稅政策那剛剛在部長解釋雖然說跟寬普的關稅政策的相連性不是那麼的高可是因為現在其實台灣社會因為老宅比較多是有需要的所以部長的解釋是OK不過現在要請教部長的就是說因為是列在特別的預算\n\n04:47.367 --> 05:03.168\n那剛剛我剛有特別跟您報告過在115年的時候補助上限以每一個民眾來講補助上限是50%那請教一下在特別預算的裡面因為過去在特別預算裡面如果申請補助的時候補助的上限都是100%\n\n05:04.449 --> 05:25.548\n就我的了解是不是都百分之百那這樣子的補助會不會有一個這個網內互打的一個問題就是我去申請特別預算的時候補助會提較高那我去115年申請公務預算的時候補助只有50%這樣子的落差還有裡面中間的還有等一下還有請教這是補助預算的一個部分先來做請教等一下再做細項的部分來去做請教\n\n05:26.549 --> 05:32.671\n其實我們有設算這兩者之間應該不會有矛盾內容詳細大概補助的金額的比例大概是怎麼樣我們會定高限其實要不要50%不是特別預算會多少不是說明一下因為它過程當中是會有發包的問題\n\n05:49.858 --> 06:18.321\n所以我們現在在訂立這一個部分的時候我們大概會區分為公共區域跟市內區域來做不同的設算比例設算因為公共區域是屬於整棟大樓要共有所以它會有所謂是不是屬於公共發包的問題那但是市內修繕的部分它屬於個案申請的部分那是可以作為調整的所以這個部分我們會有做好比較詳細的設算以後也會跟行政院做報告所以它是可以允許不同比例\n\n06:18.781 --> 06:37.299\n所以我的意思是說會不會在115年的時候老屋延壽計畫因為這是115年老屋延壽計畫你們的新聞稿說補助上限就50%那現在在特別預算的裡面因為特別預算是比較寬鬆的允許有不同射算所以有不同射算所以民眾會不會申請特別預算的時候的補助會比較高\n\n06:37.619 --> 06:57.340\n比較多會不會有這樣的問題是有可能所以這邊就是我要請署長跟部長去了解的那這樣子的話大家都會趕著去申請特別預算那特別預算有個特別的點是在116年的12月31號到期所以變成說可能就是說那這樣我們的公務預算可能就會兩邊會有一個差異就民眾會覺得說用特別預算的話\n\n06:58.081 --> 07:12.036\n可能補助比較多就一股大家就是申請特別預算那公務預算的部分就可能沒有人申請那這樣會造成這個內政部在編列預算的時候會使用這個執行率會稍微較差一點所以這邊提醒署長一下好不好那這第二個問題就是說\n\n07:13.772 --> 07:39.357\n老屋老宅延售這個計畫非常的好那可是過去民眾都知道就是說在一些比較舊型社區的部分過去政府的一些補助就是比如說外牆拉皮或是一些電梯等等的一個部分那我請教說以項目來講會不會過去的一些我們有一些老屋拉皮或是電梯跟現在我們新的這個全新的這個老屋老宅延售的部分\n\n07:40.057 --> 08:05.462\n他的申請的項目是不是有些重複那未來內政部或國土署這邊是不是可以做一個區分跟我們報告最主要他是因為程序上不同他程序上就有點像現在的都更裡面有分都更跟危老兩種制度一樣那第一個對象不同因為我們大概是四到六樓他比較沒有內政疑慮的那第二個就是說他是不一定要經過管委會的\n\n08:05.902 --> 08:24.493\n那都更整委他是必須要透過管委會所以他相對是規模比較大那這種是允許小規模的可能他是十幾戶或甚至只有八戶那這樣的方式其實是可以加速他來申請那第三個就是說內容上其實對這一個特別條例來講他可以整修的項目範圍更廣\n\n08:26.094 --> 08:50.333\n好我要解釋過去擴大範圍嘛那同一比例是不是比如說未來使用老屋顏色同一比例是不是要百分之百以一整棟樓來講同一比例大概多少大概百分之百嘛所以應該還是有它的困難不過我很樂見不管是內政部或國土署放寬未來老屋整修的一個整個範圍那過去其實大家也說嘛很多公共空間比如說連燈都沒有辦法\n\n08:50.993 --> 09:19.852\n都燈都是不亮的其實這些都有機會納入整個未來的整個範圍內是好謝謝那我本席是樂見這樣子的一個測試那最後的問題就是再請教一下因為剛剛也講特別提到零四零三大地震那已經從去年已經發生了一年那請教部長跟署長有沒有統計之前被列成紅單跟黃單的部分現在整個的處理進度如何是不是還算很多的房子\n\n09:21.222 --> 09:38.818\n想要重建或是現在很多的住戶因為已經被列成紅單跟黃單不管是他的所持有的財產的資產的價值減損那現在也沒有辦法住在裡面這等問題那現在這樣子的問題是不是你們統計還有多少那未來你們會考慮要怎麼樣解決這些這些受災戶\n\n09:39.699 --> 10:07.715\n了解感謝委員其實在因為本部大概專注在處理花蓮的部分花蓮目前大概都有進入程序當中不管他是走耐震補強或者是走重建的部分都有進入到程序了那我知道現在在新北那又或在桃園因為住戶意見整合的過程當中有比較辛苦所以縣市政府都很努力但是也有卡到意見整合的這個部分\n\n10:08.175 --> 10:30.435\n你們有沒有想說剛剛有說當然我是一個大家可以討論剛剛有提到特別的要公辦督工不知道是不是一個很好的方式那在其他縣市是不是慢慢有機會就是說政府怎麼樣去協助有沒有一些考量這個部分我想我們來了解一下看雙北就是新北跟桃園看它目前的過往當中大致上有遇到什麼樣的問題那我們看來了解看看是不是要\n\n10:31.393 --> 10:54.318\n能夠給予一些協助主席最後一個問題就是我常跟部長跟署長建議跟拜託的因為因應0403大地震之後其實很多的房子尤其台灣很多的年紀比較已經三四十年以上的屋齡的房子非常的多我一直在討論像現在這樣的特別條例特別的預算\n\n10:54.878 --> 11:20.923\n或是未來的整個的公務預算是不是有可能加入一些老屋建檢一些初檢的一個方式來把它擴大就是說我不知道我的房子未來這個比如說四層樓五層樓六層樓的老宅未來能不能因應幾級的地震那比如說我的房子我可以來跟政府單位申請這個老屋建檢的一些補助然後未來可以知道說我的房子現在未來的狀況怎麼樣讓整個\n\n11:23.864 --> 11:46.863\n跟委員報告啦其實我們現在就有這樣的一個制度啦因為那每年大家編入多少預算民眾好不好申請我們其實都是受理然後每年額度其實都夠那但是目前來講全台灣申請大概只有接近兩萬件兩萬件因為大概出品的部分大概是一萬二到一萬五那當然普遍可能會是有些民眾會擔心會\n\n11:49.885 --> 12:06.779\n建檢出來的結果如果不理想的話很可能會影響自己的房屋價值那所以我們到目前編列有預算但是事實上申請的數量沒有很多那署長這邊未來要推廣嗎還是說未來總不能說每次遇到地震以後在這些受災戶都很辛苦\n\n12:07.119 --> 12:27.999\n根文報告我們在做老宅延壽這個案子的時候其實同步也是在做這個健檢也就是說他有耐震的出品出品這個部分都有納入一起來實施所以民眾若有興趣的話其實都來申請我想我們都會所以在做老宅健檢的時候意思就是說你們會推廣就是老屋健檢好謝謝部長署長謝謝謝謝張志倫委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.24,"end":8.709,"text":"好謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早有請劉世芳部長跟吳新修署長劉部長吳署長有請張委員早"},{"start":14.292,"end":33.257,"text":"好 部長好 署長好好 今天要討論的是這個都市更新跟危老重建的相關的議題那剛剛公安部長有特別提到在這個內政部在明年度即將推動老宅延壽計畫這是一個新的計畫我覺得非常好"},{"start":33.797,"end":53.807,"text":"主要是為了讓民眾修善房屋公共區域以及室內空間提供補助以及未來會結合衛福部長照3.0讓長者在宅安心養老那我們也可以看到齁最近的這個新聞稿齁我放在桌上我去拿一下時間暫停一下抱歉時間暫停資料太多了好謝謝主席齁"},{"start":63.476,"end":91.481,"text":"那我們在這個內政部在3月5號的新聞稿裡面更明確的講出內政部在今年2月的時候的記者會宣布要全新的一個政策叫做老屋顏色計劃針對30年以上四到六樓的房子初步提供全面的這個住宅提供室內外的修繕經費包含管線更新建物立體立面修繕就是我們俗稱的拉皮"},{"start":94.102,"end":118.982,"text":"屋頂防水增設電梯增加無障礙設施等等補助上限是50%屆時想要延長我們建屋的使用年限我覺得這些都非常利益良善那這個內容其實剛剛部長有特別提到內政部會與這屆持續溝通在內容完備以後會請行政院核定必據執行那現在的狀況來講應該是還在研議當中"},{"start":121.912,"end":142.663,"text":"那可是我們現在因為看到因為川普的關稅政策我們編列了一個4100億的一個特別預算我們看到裡面的老宅修繕這個部分的就是內政部現在還在研議的這個部分有規劃了50億鎖定了500棟的老舊集合住宅來去做這樣子的一個補助"},{"start":144.11,"end":161.238,"text":"現在我先跟部長報告這個計劃因為我相信這個4100億的現在特別預算這個三個黨都有提出版本那本黨現在也是支持這樣老於年瘦的一個部分不過因為這個計劃原本是在115年要來推的這個計劃不管是放在公務預算公建計劃還是放在基金裡面"},{"start":162.719,"end":185.637,"text":"那現在是要把它提早列為特別預算裡面那所以等一下要請教部長就是說是不是因為特別預算會有一個急迫性或是一個特別必要性那是不是就是在內政部裡面已經有準備好了要把它放在特別預算的裡面嗎那民眾可以來運用的時候它的整體的計畫你們是不是已經整個都已經規劃好了請部長回答"},{"start":187.378,"end":190.381,"text":"謝謝張委員的關心也非常謝謝張委員的支持確實沒有錯我們在跟國發會請議的時候有提到老宅延壽原先是要放到115年開始的年度預算但是後來因為國發會他也發布了現在我們台灣已經進入超高齡的社會"},{"start":205.976,"end":233.399,"text":"那我們也提到就是有關社宅的部分社宅在請這個老人家自己在搬出去到社宅的時候他們不願意離開原來的這個生活區域所以我們就提到老宅延壽這樣子的一個概念那獲得各界的支持因為我們跟相關的公會跟單位都有進行過這方面的溝通那所以現在老宅延壽牽涉到三個面向第一個就是我們自己在內政部裡面有關於建築物本體是否安全可以做這個老宅延壽的工程"},{"start":234.54,"end":258.4,"text":"第二個就是衛福部因為他們在長照3.0的時候也要照顧老人家所以老人家在居家裡面的修繕室內修繕也會列入是屬於這個老宅延壽裡面重要的一部分那再來就是有關於老宅延壽也會牽涉到我們因應氣候變遷的節能減碳譬如說老宅有老的電線那個地方一定是非常耗電然後也非常危險性會提高"},{"start":259.281,"end":286.467,"text":"所以我們是這個三項一起進行的時候呢行政院認為可以列入這次的特別預算所以給予50億元這樣子的Quota讓內政部跟其他部位來解釋的確啦因為這4100億原本是因應寬普的關稅政策那剛剛在部長解釋雖然說跟寬普的關稅政策的相連性不是那麼的高可是因為現在其實台灣社會因為老宅比較多是有需要的所以部長的解釋是OK不過現在要請教部長的就是說因為是列在特別的預算"},{"start":287.367,"end":303.168,"text":"那剛剛我剛有特別跟您報告過在115年的時候補助上限以每一個民眾來講補助上限是50%那請教一下在特別預算的裡面因為過去在特別預算裡面如果申請補助的時候補助的上限都是100%"},{"start":304.449,"end":325.548,"text":"就我的了解是不是都百分之百那這樣子的補助會不會有一個這個網內互打的一個問題就是我去申請特別預算的時候補助會提較高那我去115年申請公務預算的時候補助只有50%這樣子的落差還有裡面中間的還有等一下還有請教這是補助預算的一個部分先來做請教等一下再做細項的部分來去做請教"},{"start":326.549,"end":332.671,"text":"其實我們有設算 這兩者之間應該不會有矛盾內容詳細大概補助的金額的比例大概是怎麼樣我們會定高限其實要不要50%不是特別預算會多少不是說明一下 因為它過程當中是會有發包的問題"},{"start":349.858,"end":378.321,"text":"所以我們現在在訂立這一個部分的時候我們大概會區分為公共區域跟市內區域來做不同的設算比例設算因為公共區域是屬於整棟大樓要共有所以它會有所謂是不是屬於公共發包的問題那但是市內修繕的部分它屬於個案申請的部分那是可以作為調整的所以這個部分我們會有做好比較詳細的設算以後也會跟行政院做報告所以它是可以允許不同比例"},{"start":378.781,"end":397.299,"text":"所以我的意思是說會不會在115年的時候老屋延壽計畫因為這是115年老屋延壽計畫你們的新聞稿說補助上限就50%那現在在特別預算的裡面因為特別預算是比較寬鬆的允許有不同射算所以有不同射算所以民眾會不會申請特別預算的時候的補助會比較高"},{"start":397.619,"end":417.34,"text":"比較多會不會有這樣的問題是有可能所以這邊就是我要請署長跟部長去了解的那這樣子的話大家都會趕著去申請特別預算那特別預算有個特別的點是在116年的12月31號到期所以變成說可能就是說那這樣我們的公務預算可能就會兩邊會有一個差異就民眾會覺得說用特別預算的話"},{"start":418.081,"end":432.036,"text":"可能補助比較多就一股大家就是申請特別預算那公務預算的部分就可能沒有人申請那這樣會造成這個內政部在編列預算的時候會使用這個執行率會稍微較差一點所以這邊提醒署長一下好不好那這第二個問題就是說"},{"start":433.772,"end":459.357,"text":"老屋老宅延售這個計畫非常的好那可是過去民眾都知道就是說在一些比較舊型社區的部分過去政府的一些補助就是比如說外牆拉皮或是一些電梯等等的一個部分那我請教說以項目來講會不會過去的一些我們有一些老屋拉皮或是電梯跟現在我們新的這個全新的這個老屋老宅延售的部分"},{"start":460.057,"end":485.462,"text":"他的申請的項目是不是有些重複那未來內政部或國土署這邊是不是可以做一個區分跟我們報告最主要他是因為程序上不同他程序上就有點像現在的都更裡面有分都更跟危老兩種制度一樣那第一個對象不同因為我們大概是四到六樓他比較沒有內政疑慮的那第二個就是說他是不一定要經過管委會的"},{"start":485.902,"end":504.493,"text":"那都更整委他是必須要透過管委會所以他相對是規模比較大那這種是允許小規模的可能他是十幾戶或甚至只有八戶那這樣的方式其實是可以加速他來申請那第三個就是說內容上其實對這一個特別條例來講他可以整修的項目範圍更廣"},{"start":506.094,"end":530.333,"text":"好 我要解釋過去擴大範圍嘛那同一比例是不是 比如說未來使用老屋顏色同一比例是不是要百分之百以一整棟樓來講 同一比例大概多少大概百分之百嘛 所以應該還是有它的困難不過我很樂見 不管是內政部或國土署放寬未來老屋整修的一個整個範圍那過去其實大家也說嘛 很多公共空間比如說連燈都沒有辦法"},{"start":530.993,"end":559.852,"text":"都燈都是不亮的其實這些都有機會納入整個未來的整個範圍內是好謝謝那我本席是樂見這樣子的一個測試那最後的問題就是再請教一下因為剛剛也講特別提到零四零三大地震那已經從去年已經發生了一年那請教部長跟署長有沒有統計之前被列成紅單跟黃單的部分現在整個的處理進度如何是不是還算很多的房子"},{"start":561.222,"end":578.818,"text":"想要重建或是現在很多的住戶因為已經被列成紅單跟黃單不管是他的所持有的財產的資產的價值減損那現在也沒有辦法住在裡面這等問題那現在這樣子的問題是不是你們統計還有多少那未來你們會考慮要怎麼樣解決這些這些受災戶"},{"start":579.699,"end":607.715,"text":"了解 感謝委員其實在因為本部大概專注在處理花蓮的部分花蓮目前大概都有進入程序當中不管他是走耐震補強或者是走重建的部分都有進入到程序了那我知道現在在新北那又或在桃園因為住戶意見整合的過程當中有比較辛苦所以縣市政府都很努力但是也有卡到意見整合的這個部分"},{"start":608.175,"end":630.435,"text":"你們有沒有想說剛剛有說當然我是一個大家可以討論剛剛有提到特別的要公辦督工不知道是不是一個很好的方式那在其他縣市是不是慢慢有機會就是說政府怎麼樣去協助有沒有一些考量這個部分我想我們來了解一下看雙北就是新北跟桃園看它目前的過往當中大致上有遇到什麼樣的問題那我們看來了解看看是不是要"},{"start":631.393,"end":654.318,"text":"能夠給予一些協助主席最後一個問題就是我常跟部長跟署長建議跟拜託的因為因應0403大地震之後其實很多的房子尤其台灣很多的年紀比較已經三四十年以上的屋齡的房子非常的多我一直在討論像現在這樣的特別條例特別的預算"},{"start":654.878,"end":680.923,"text":"或是未來的整個的公務預算是不是有可能加入一些老屋建檢一些初檢的一個方式來把它擴大就是說我不知道我的房子未來這個比如說四層樓五層樓六層樓的老宅未來能不能因應幾級的地震那比如說我的房子我可以來跟政府單位申請這個老屋建檢的一些補助然後未來可以知道說我的房子現在未來的狀況怎麼樣讓整個"},{"start":683.864,"end":706.863,"text":"跟委員報告啦 其實我們現在就有這樣的一個制度啦 因為那每年大家編入多少預算 民眾好不好申請我們其實都是受理 然後每年額度其實都夠那但是目前來講 全台灣申請大概只有接近兩萬件兩萬件 因為大概出品的部分大概是一萬二到一萬五那當然普遍 可能會是有些民眾會擔心 會"},{"start":709.885,"end":726.779,"text":"建檢出來的結果如果不理想的話很可能會影響自己的房屋價值那所以我們到目前編列有預算但是事實上申請的數量沒有很多那署長這邊未來要推廣嗎還是說未來總不能說每次遇到地震以後在這些受災戶都很辛苦"},{"start":727.119,"end":747.999,"text":"根文報告我們在做老宅延壽這個案子的時候其實同步也是在做這個健檢也就是說他有耐震的出品出品這個部分都有納入一起來實施所以民眾若有興趣的話其實都來申請我想我們都會所以在做老宅健檢的時候意思就是說你們會推廣就是老屋健檢好謝謝部長署長謝謝謝謝張志倫委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":157,"blocks":[["張委員智倫：（9時24分）謝謝主席。各位委員、各位官員大家早。有請劉世芳部長跟吳欣修署長，謝謝。"],["主席：劉部長、吳署長，有請。"],["劉部長世芳：張委員早。"],["張委員智倫：部長好，署長好。今天要討論的是都市更新跟危老重建的相關議題。剛剛部長有特別提到，內政部在明年度即將推動老宅延壽計畫，這是一個新的計畫，我覺得非常好，主要是為了讓民眾修繕房屋公共區域及室內空間，提供補助，以及未來會結合衛福部長照3.0，讓長者在宅安心養老。我們也可以看到最近內政部在3月5號的新聞稿裡面更明確提到，內政部在今年2月的記者會宣布一個全新的政策，叫做老屋延壽計畫，針對30年以上4到6樓的房子提供室內外全面的修繕經費，包含管線更新、建物立面修繕，就是我們俗稱的拉皮，還有屋頂防水、增設電梯、增加無障礙設施等等，補助上限是50%，藉此延長建物的使用年限，我覺得這些都非常地立意良善。有關於這些內容，其實剛剛部長有特別提到，內政部會與各界持續溝通，在內容完備以後會請行政院核定，並據以執行。以現在的狀況來講，應該是還在研議當中，可是現在因為川普的關稅政策，政府編列了一個4,100億的特別預算，我們看到裡面的老宅修繕這個部分，就是內政部現在還在研議的這個部分，有規劃了50億，鎖定500棟的老舊集合住宅做這樣的補助。","我先跟部長報告，因為這個4,100億的特別預算，三個黨都有提出版本，本黨現在也是支持這個老屋延壽的部分，不過因為這個計畫原本是在115年要推的，不管是放在公務預算公建計畫還是放在基金裡面，現在是要把它提早列在特別預算裡面，所以要請教部長的就是，因為特別預算會有急迫性或是特別必要性，內政部是不是已經準備好要把它放在特別預算裡面？民眾來運用的時候，整體計畫你們是不是都已經規劃好了？請部長回答。"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝張委員的關心，也非常謝謝張委員的支持，確實沒有錯，我們在跟國發會請益的時候有提到老宅延壽，原先是要放到115年開始的年度預算，但是後來因為國發會發布臺灣已經進入超高齡社會，我們也提到有關社宅的部分，當我們請老人家搬出去到社宅時，他們不願意離開原來的生活區域，所以我們就提到老宅延壽這樣的概念，獲得各界的支持，我們跟相關的公會及單位都有去進行過這方面的溝通。現在老宅延壽牽涉到三個面向，第一個就是我們自己內政部的部分，有關於建築物本體是否安全、可以做老宅延壽的工程；第二個就是衛福部的部分，因為他們的長照3.0是要照顧老人家，所以老人家的居家修繕、室內修繕也會列入老宅延壽裡面重要的一部分；再來就是有關於老宅延壽也會牽涉到我們因應氣候變遷的節能減碳，譬如說老宅有老的電線，那個地方一定是非常耗電，危險性也會增高。這三項一起進行的時候，行政院認為可以列入這次的特別預算，因此給予50億元的quota，讓內政部跟其他部會來進行。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝部長。的確這4,100億原本是因應川普的關稅政策，剛剛部長的解釋，雖然跟川普的關稅政策的相連性不是那麼高，可是因為現在臺灣社會的老宅比較多，是有需要的，所以部長的解釋是OK。不過現在要請教部長的是，因為是列在特別預算裡面，我剛剛有特別跟您報告過，在115年的時候，以每一個民眾來講，補助上限是50%，請教一下，在特別預算裡面，過去在特別預算裡面如果申請補助，補助的上限都是100%，就我的了解是不是都是100%，這樣的補助會不會有網內互打的問題？就是我去申請特別預算，補助會比較高，但我115年申請公務預算的時候，補助只有50%，有這樣的落差，還有裡面的相關部分等一下還要請教，這是就補助預算的部分先請教，等一下再就細項的部分請教。"],["劉部長世芳：好，其實我們有設算，這兩者之間應該不會有矛盾，我請署長先說明。"],["張委員智倫：所以詳細內容、補助的金額比例大概是怎麼樣？"],["劉部長世芳：最高我們會定上限。"],["張委員智倫：好。請署長說明。"],["吳署長欣修：其實要不要補助50%不是特別預算的問題……"],["張委員智倫：你們新聞稿有寫50%，特別預算的話會多少？"],["吳署長欣修：不是，說明一下，因為過程當中會有發包的問題，所以我們現在訂定這個部分時，大概會區分為公共區域及室內區域做不同的比例設算，因為公共區域是屬於整棟大樓共有，所以會有是否屬於公共發包的問題；但是室內修繕的部分是屬於個案申請的部分，是可以調整的，這個部分我們會做好比較詳細的設算以後，也跟行政院報告，它是可以允許不同比例存在的。"],["張委員智倫：所以我的意思是說，會不會在115年老屋延壽計畫……因為你們的新聞稿說115年老屋延壽計畫的補助上限就是50%，而現在在特別預算裡面，特別預算是比較寬鬆的。"],["吳署長欣修：對，它是允許有不同設算的。"],["張委員智倫：有不同設算，民眾會不會申請特別預算的補助會比較高、比較多？會不會有這樣的問題？"],["吳署長欣修：是有可能。"],["張委員智倫：所以這邊就是我要請署長跟部長去了解的，這樣的話大家就會趕著去申請特別預算，特別預算有個特別的點是它會在116年的12月31號到期，所以可能變成跟公務預算會有差異，民眾會覺得用特別預算的話補助比較多，大家就去申請特別預算，公務預算的部分可能就沒有人申請，這樣會造成內政部在編列預算的時候，執行率會稍微較差一點，所以這邊提醒署長一下，好不好？"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["張委員智倫：第二個問題就是，老宅延壽這個計畫非常好，可是民眾都知道，在一些比較舊型社區的部分，過去政府的一些補助，比如說外牆拉皮或是電梯等等，我想請教，以項目來講，過去有一些老屋拉皮或是電梯，跟現在全新的老宅延壽計畫，申請的項目是不是有些重複？未來內政部或國土署是不是可以區分？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，最主要是因為程序上的不同，程序上就有點像現在的都更裡面有分都更跟危老兩種制度一樣，第一個是對象不同，這個計畫是針對4到6樓，這是比較沒有耐震疑慮的；第二個就是它是不一定要經過管委會的，而都更整危則是必須要透過管委會，所以相對規模比較大，那這種是允許小規模的，可能它是十幾戶或甚至只有八戶，這樣的方式其實可以加速他們來申請；第三個是內容上，其實對這一個特別條例來講，可以整修的項目範圍更廣，用這樣的方式……"],["張委員智倫：對比過去擴大範圍嘛，比如未來使用老屋延壽，同意比例是不是要100%，以一整棟樓來講，同意比例大概多少，大概百分之百嘛？"],["吳署長欣修：對。"],["張委員智倫：所以應該還是有其困難。"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["張委員智倫：不過我很樂見，不管是內政部或國土署放寬未來老屋整修的範圍，過去大家也提到很多公共空間的問題，比如說連燈都是不亮的，其實這些都有機會納入未來的整個範圍內嘛？"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝，本席樂見這樣子的措施。","最後一個問題再請教一下，因為剛剛也講特別提到0403大地震，從去年已經發生了1年，請教部長跟署長，有沒有統計之前被列成紅單跟黃單的部分現在整個的處理進度如何，是不是還是很多的房子想要重建？或者很多住戶因為已經被列成紅單跟黃單，不管是他持有資產的價值減損、現在也沒辦法住在裡面等等問題，現在這樣子的問題你們統計還有多少？未來你們有沒有考慮要怎麼樣解決這些受災戶？"],["吳署長欣修：了解，感謝委員，本部大概專注在處理花蓮的部分。"],["張委員智倫：對，那其他縣市……"],["吳署長欣修：花蓮目前大概都有進入程序當中，不管他是走耐震補強或者是走重建的部分，都有進入到程序了。當然我知道現在在新北，也有部分在桃園……"],["張委員智倫：沒錯，我們新北還滿多的。"],["吳署長欣修：因為住戶意見整合的過程當中比較辛苦，所以縣市政府都很努力，但是也有卡到意見整合的部分。"],["張委員智倫：當然這個大家可以討論，剛剛有特別提到公辦都更，不知道是不是一個很好的方式？在其他縣市是不是慢慢有機會政府怎麼樣去協助，有沒有一些考量？"],["吳署長欣修：這個部分我想我們來了解一下，看看新北跟桃園在目前的過程當中大致上遇到什麼樣的問題，我們來了解看看是不是能夠給予一些協助……"],["張委員智倫：主席，最後一個問題，我常跟部長、署長建議及拜託的就是，0403大地震之後，尤其臺灣屋齡已經3、40年以上的房子非常多，我一直在討論像現在這樣的特別條例、特別預算或是未來整個公務預算，是不是有可能加入一些老屋健檢、初檢的方式把它擴大？比如我我的房子是這種4層樓、5層樓、6層樓的老宅，未來不知道能因應幾級的地震，假設我可以向政府單位申請老屋健檢的一些補助，可以知道我的房子未來的狀況怎麼樣，讓整個……"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，其實我們現在就有這樣的一個制度，因為……"],["張委員智倫：每年大概編列多少預算？民眾好不好申請？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，我們都有受理，然後每年的額度其實都夠，但是目前來講，全臺灣大概只有接近2萬件申請，初評的部分大概是1萬2,000到1萬5,000，普遍因為有些民眾會擔心健檢出來的結果不理想的話，很可能會影響自己的房屋價值，所以我們到目前有編列預算，但是事實上申請的數量沒有很多。"],["張委員智倫：署長未來願意推廣嗎？總不能每次遇到地震以後，這些受災戶都很辛苦，"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，我們在做老宅延壽這個案子的時候，其實同步也在做這個健檢，也就是說它有耐震的初評，初評這一個部分都有一起納入實施，民眾若有興趣的話其實都來申請，我想我們都會……"],["張委員智倫：所以在做老宅健檢的時候……意思就是你們會推廣老屋健檢。"],["吳署長欣修：對。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝部長、署長，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張智倫委員。","下一位我們請張宏陸召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":46,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-18","speakers":["牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","麥玉珍","許宇甄","王美惠","黃捷","李柏毅","徐欣瑩","林俊憲","徐富癸","張雅琳","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","高金素梅","邱鎮軍","丁學忠"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-08"],"gazette_id":"1144701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、國家住宅及都市更新中心董事長就「都市更新與危老重建之執行成效及未\n來展望」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具「都市更新條例增訂第四十\n四條之一條文草案」案；三、審查委員賴惠員等23人擬具「都市危險及老舊建築物加速重建條例\n第三條及第十一條條文修正草案」案【第一案至第三案綜合詢答並處理法律提案】","agenda_id":"1144701_00001"}}}