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\"start\": 74.866, \"end\": 75.166, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"興\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 75.166, \"end\": 75.347, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"居\", \"start\": 75.347, \"end\": 75.507, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 75.507, \"end\": 75.707, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 75.707, \"end\": 75.927, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"竹\", \"start\": 75.927, \"end\": 76.067, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 76.067, \"end\": 76.228, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"京\", \"start\": 76.228, \"end\": 76.428, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"城\", \"start\": 76.428, \"end\": 76.608, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 76.608, \"end\": 76.828, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"居\", \"start\": 76.828, \"end\": 77.229, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 77.229, \"end\": 77.329, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 77.329, \"end\": 77.509, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 77.509, \"end\": 77.909, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"四\", \"start\": 77.909, \"end\": 78.27, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 78.27, \"end\": 78.79, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 78.79, \"end\": 78.93, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 78.93, \"end\": 79.031, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"繼\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 79.031, \"end\": 79.051, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 81.765, \"end\": 103.594, \"text\": \"謝謝委員的關注我想預租工法絕對是國內不管是社宅或一般民間的開發案應該要擴大推動的那我們當然希望透過社宅的推動來示範讓這些營造廠跟民間都能夠了解那後續我們預計每年至少要以兩處社宅來推動預租工法\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 81.765, \"end\": 82.185, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 82.185, \"end\": 83.306, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 83.306, \"end\": 83.606, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 83.606, \"end\": 83.706, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 83.706, \"end\": 84.046, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"租\", \"start\": 84.046, \"end\": 84.186, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 84.186, \"end\": 84.346, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 84.346, \"end\": 84.946, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"絕\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 84.946, \"end\": 85.527, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 85.527, \"end\": 85.607, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 85.607, \"end\": 85.747, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 85.747, \"end\": 85.887, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 85.887, \"end\": 86.107, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"宅\", \"start\": 86.107, \"end\": 86.267, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 86.267, \"end\": 86.387, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": 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\"民\", \"start\": 95.791, \"end\": 96.191, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 96.191, \"end\": 96.311, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 96.311, \"end\": 96.571, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 96.571, \"end\": 96.871, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 96.871, \"end\": 97.712, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 97.712, \"end\": 98.172, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 98.172, \"end\": 98.312, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 98.312, \"end\": 99.692, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 99.692, \"end\": 99.892, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 99.892, \"end\": 100.133, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 100.133, \"end\": 100.313, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 100.313, \"end\": 100.533, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"要\", 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所以我說明一下就是說我們比較不贊成修法是因為修法太剛性了反而會限制了雙方的發展那改用注意事項或者是提醒他們有所謂風險控管的時候那不管是注意事項或是其他我是認為說既然包括租屋期幾千塊的事情幾萬塊的事情就有一個定型化契約\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 496.519, \"end\": 496.679, \"score\": 0.71}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 496.679, \"end\": 496.779, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 496.779, \"end\": 496.799, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 496.799, \"end\": 496.899, \"score\": 0.646}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 496.899, \"end\": 497.48, \"score\": 0.552}, {\"word\": \"雙\"}, {\"word\": \"倍\", \"start\": 497.48, \"end\": 497.62, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 497.62, \"end\": 497.76, \"score\": 0.547}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 497.76, \"end\": 498.14, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 498.14, \"end\": 498.3, \"score\": 0.693}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 498.3, \"end\": 498.64, \"score\": 0.679}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 498.64, \"end\": 498.74, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 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\"end\": 655.13, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 655.13, \"end\": 655.21, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 655.21, \"end\": 655.251, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 655.251, \"end\": 655.271, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,248 --> 00:00:07,779\n謝謝主席我們請內政部劉部長還有住宿中心花董事長劉部長花董事長有請\n\n2\n00:00:12,546 --> 00:00:40,309\n委員長部長早還有董事長早我想當時我們成立這個住都中心當然主要就是要推動都市內老舊建築物的重建還有強化政府主導都市更新的機制而且擴大我們執行都市更新的量能所以今年住都中心在2月12的時候有對外宣布有一個新聞稿就是中央興建首座運用預住公法的新辦的社會住宅萬華安居\n\n3\n00:00:40,919 --> 00:01:10,143\n那二月底預計要公開招租總共戶數有300戶有三種房型那除了套房195戶兩房的89戶三房的16戶那當然預租工法依照當時花董事長的說法是其實現在是一個比較可以節省人力而且呢又可以讓我們的工期能夠加速進行然後另外還有呢就是可以提升施工品質所以現在租屋中心也在推這個預租工法\n\n4\n00:01:10,902 --> 00:01:19,051\n我看到目前除了萬華安居還有新竹的中亞安居桃園的普興安居跟新竹的京城安居目前是這四個是嗎那未來會繼續推動嗎\n\n5\n00:01:21,765 --> 00:01:43,594\n謝謝委員的關注我想預租工法絕對是國內不管是社宅或一般民間的開發案應該要擴大推動的那我們當然希望透過社宅的推動來示範讓這些營造廠跟民間都能夠了解那後續我們預計每年至少要以兩處社宅來推動預租工法\n\n6\n00:01:43,894 --> 00:02:02,804\n那因為當時用預注工法主要就是覺得它可以縮短工期嘛對不對可以縮短時間我想不僅是這樣因為它其實是比較先進的營造工法對於未來台灣營造人力的短缺絕對是越來越嚴重所以說我們透過預注工法的推動希望讓預注的產業在台灣能夠擴大\n\n7\n00:02:07,246 --> 00:02:24,574\n當時您是說2月底就會公開遭租了那但是到目前為止都還沒有的原因是什麼其實確實我們也跟一些我們其他的今年要遭租的案子做了整體的檢討那現在預計應該在這個5月的下旬應該就會公告請問一下因為我上你們的網站看您可以看一下這個圖片4月13日就已經竣工了\n\n8\n00:02:32,657 --> 00:02:49,979\n那為什麼要到五月底才能招租因為你本來預計的是二月底我們竣工其實只是工程的一個階段後面還有一些最後的細節那還要申請死照等等等等那你那時候說二月底可以辦理招租現在要到五月底\n\n9\n00:02:50,599 --> 00:03:07,288\n因為實質上可以進入實質入住啦大概還是要到可能10月到年底才是實質可以入住所以我5月遭住其實還是來得及那你當時2月12的時候說2月要遭住那現在延宕了三個月的理由是什麼\n\n10\n00:03:09,156 --> 00:03:25,240\n其實我剛剛跟委員報告過實際上我們就是我們把今年預計要可能要完工了我們做了一次的整理那我們分階段因為我們有十幾個案子今年要招租因為其實對於每一個需要社會住宅大部分其實都是比較弱勢的家庭\n\n11\n00:03:25,860 --> 00:03:53,486\n晚一天完工晚一天遭租對他們來說他們就必須要負擔更多的租金因為他必須在外面租所以我們希望說這個部分是不是這個時間不要再延宕因為我也有聽到一種聲音就是說是不是要等到520之後要等我們的賴總統或卓院長去檢採所以才要延到5月底跟這個有關對我希望不要這樣所以希望在這邊我們可以加速的這個前進那另外就是\n\n12\n00:03:54,346 --> 00:04:15,556\n根據萬華安居預計要收多少租金這個其實我們跟部裡面其實都在檢討討論當中那原則上當然是以符合住戶可負擔這個標準這是一定要遵守的好依照這個估價師的推算租金可能會超過4萬元是不是有這麼一回事\n\n13\n00:04:16,516 --> 00:04:38,661\n目前我想這不會發生這絕對不會發生因為依照我們目前的社會住宅的租金來說剛剛也提到其實會去需要社會住宅的這些住戶大部分都是比較弱勢他們也有這個需要所以那個租金對他們來說當然相對高低對他們來說相對重要所以目前我們大概是\n\n14\n00:04:39,441 --> 00:05:04,677\n這個社會住宅的租金比如說如果由估價式來估算通常是會用市場租金的七到八折雖然是低於市場行情啦但是對於在都會區來說事實上這個租金的壓力也是非常的大那相對於我們可以比較一下日本韓國跟香港他們的社會住宅租金多半是以收入能力來去估算所以計算之後大概會是我們\n\n15\n00:05:05,357 --> 00:05:20,264\n地區租金的四到五折所以要這邊實質上又未必是這樣其實日本的URguide的住宅其實就是市場租金在租並沒有用市場租金的四到五折在租那另外呢台灣確實是比較好啦那日本呢你剛講韓國呢\n\n16\n00:05:24,067 --> 00:05:40,067\n韓國其實有很多種在這邊我想提出這問題就是希望部長跟這個董事長就是定價的部分因為既然是要幫助弱勢的團體還是希望能夠定價既然盡量符合各地的一個標準依地區別好嗎還有依他的收入\n\n17\n00:05:41,434 --> 00:06:08,357\n然後另外再請教一下這個部長就是我們現在台灣我們現在都市更新因為我們現在老宅大概超過30年有超過500萬戶所以現在在都市更新的這個危老都市更新其實有一點緩慢那請問部長這個是不是我們現在的這個都跟的這個在推動的時候我們是不是比較注重能不能談的成而不是關心地主跟住戶分的公不公平\n\n18\n00:06:11,637 --> 00:06:30,202\n在我們的都更違老條例裡面比較側重的是屬於程序上面的合乎我們的行政規範所以對於實質上就是能不能有分多少的利潤或者我們比較沒有介入也就是我們剛剛所說的要把這樣子各種不同的合建合夥甚至入股把它放到\n\n19\n00:06:30,782 --> 00:06:58,605\n法條裡面啊對公部門來講確實在處理上有點困難因為一般的我說一般我們的人民啊針對面對這樣的更新的時候其實他們都很多的疑問而且因為不熟悉所以比如說像我們租賃的時候有租賃定型化契約範本然後呢我們在這個預售屋的時候預售屋的定型化契約範本那我們是不是可以針對都市更新的契約也訂一個範本呢跟委員報告就是說\n\n20\n00:06:59,954 --> 00:07:28,593\n也就是因為在尤其是合建這個部分形態太多種那我剛剛說明就是說從早期很單純的協議合建其實延伸到最後有這個協議有這個合建分屋合建分層合建分售甚至有用入股合資或是異地的方式所以就是因為類型太多種所以在過程當中而且都純屬私人之間的一個權利交換\n\n21\n00:07:29,814 --> 00:07:56,026\n權力交換所以變成說所以署長的意思說要用一個這個要用一個範本去約束他們其實反而會造成因為那其實是一個參考嘛雙方的我說明一下所以為什麼過去在我們跟地方政府討論的過程當中大家比較傾向用注意事項也就是說把可能的樣態那現在有注意事項嗎用注意事項的方式提醒雙方要簽這一類的時候那現在有注意事項嗎現在雙北有\n\n22\n00:07:58,027 --> 00:08:03,971\n因為地方政府對這一類的法規跟處理機制不太一樣所以我們一般傾向由地方政府自己去訂比較能符合他們自己的實務上的一個運作的方式是這樣\n\n23\n00:08:16,519 --> 00:08:38,854\n那目前只有雙倍嘛就代表還有很多縣市是還沒有推動對所以我說明一下就是說我們比較不贊成修法是因為修法太剛性了反而會限制了雙方的發展那改用注意事項或者是提醒他們有所謂風險控管的時候那不管是注意事項或是其他我是認為說既然包括租屋期幾千塊的事情幾萬塊的事情就有一個定型化契約\n\n24\n00:08:39,614 --> 00:08:58,509\n然後我們預售戶有一個定型化機會反而是都跟這麼重要的事情牽扯的可能上千萬幾百萬的這種都目前是沒有那剛剛署長如果說的這個定型化的辦法嘛你們現在說地方的是就是注意事項是不是可以加速來去推動各縣市來這個我們有正在研議當中\n\n25\n00:09:01,491 --> 00:09:09,553\n那有沒有預計大概多久可以完成我想我們今年度來跟地方政府在廣為在開會大家一起來研討希望今年度可以完成好嗎是謝謝然後另外最後一個問題就是要請教一下就是因為其實我們目前就像我剛剛講的我想要都更的這些住戶或者是說我們這些相關的民眾他們其實對於市場的不管是產業啦有多少業者啦怎麼整合啦產業規模有多少\n\n26\n00:09:26,557 --> 00:09:44,444\n其實大家都不了解所以住都中心有沒有可能可以成立一個這樣子的共享平台讓我如果需要都更的人可以到這個平台裡去查詢到相關的資料包括比如說公司的名冊顧問庫或是跟地方政府共享的協力平台可不可以成立一個這樣的平台\n\n27\n00:09:45,168 --> 00:10:13,802\n包委員因為國家都督中心在都更的業務上比較是公辦都更為主所以民間的都更案原則上我們比較不會去介入和參與不是要介入參與我的意思是說成立一個這樣的平台讓我們如果有需要的民眾他可以上網去看那因為其實都督中心當時成立的目的就是希望能夠有做一些比如說是相關的分析資料收集統計分析研究規劃跟教育訓練\n\n28\n00:10:15,062 --> 00:10:39,359\n感謝委員這個我們會來我們現在本來就有收集資料啦我想我們來修正我們的一些網站的資料然後推廣給所有的這個民眾來瞭解我們一樣在今年就已經都有陸陸續續在做一些修改那是不是今年年底可以完成嗎應該可以那就麻煩一下就是說我們這個讓我們一些需要用到這個更新條例的人或是需要更新的這些民眾能夠有所\n\n29\n00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:55,271\n徐委員那個是不是這樣子就是國土署長剛已經有提到我們是不是盡量把這些資訊能夠公開放在國土署的網站可以可以其實放在哪都沒有問題處理公辦都跟比較不太一樣其實放在哪裡都沒有問題只是主要讓大家可以看得到好謝謝徐議政委員的資訊\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3248\t7779\t謝謝主席 我們請內政部劉部長還有住宿中心花董事長劉部長 花董事長有請\n12546\t40309\t委員長部長早還有董事長早我想當時我們成立這個住都中心當然主要就是要推動都市內老舊建築物的重建還有強化政府主導都市更新的機制而且擴大我們執行都市更新的量能所以今年住都中心在2月12的時候有對外宣布有一個新聞稿就是中央興建首座運用預住公法的新辦的社會住宅萬華安居\n40919\t70143\t那二月底預計要公開招租總共戶數有300戶有三種房型那除了套房195戶兩房的89戶三房的16戶那當然預租工法依照當時花董事長的說法是其實現在是一個比較可以節省人力而且呢又可以讓我們的工期能夠加速進行然後另外還有呢就是可以提升施工品質所以現在租屋中心也在推這個預租工法\n70902\t79051\t我看到目前除了萬華安居還有新竹的中亞安居桃園的普興安居跟新竹的京城安居目前是這四個是嗎那未來會繼續推動嗎\n81765\t103594\t謝謝委員的關注我想預租工法絕對是國內不管是社宅或一般民間的開發案應該要擴大推動的那我們當然希望透過社宅的推動來示範讓這些營造廠跟民間都能夠了解那後續我們預計每年至少要以兩處社宅來推動預租工法\n103894\t122804\t那因為當時用預注工法主要就是覺得它可以縮短工期嘛對不對可以縮短時間我想不僅是這樣因為它其實是比較先進的營造工法對於未來台灣營造人力的短缺絕對是越來越嚴重所以說我們透過預注工法的推動希望讓預注的產業在台灣能夠擴大\n127246\t144574\t當時您是說2月底就會公開遭租了那但是到目前為止都還沒有的原因是什麼其實確實我們也跟一些我們其他的今年要遭租的案子做了整體的檢討那現在預計應該在這個5月的下旬應該就會公告請問一下因為我上你們的網站看您可以看一下這個圖片4月13日就已經竣工了\n152657\t169979\t那為什麼要到五月底才能招租因為你本來預計的是二月底我們竣工其實只是工程的一個階段後面還有一些最後的細節那還要申請死照等等等等那你那時候說二月底可以辦理招租現在要到五月底\n170599\t187288\t因為實質上可以進入實質入住啦大概還是要到可能10月到年底才是實質可以入住所以我5月遭住其實還是來得及那你當時2月12的時候說2月要遭住那現在延宕了三個月的理由是什麼\n189156\t205240\t其實我剛剛跟委員報告過實際上我們就是我們把今年預計要可能要完工了我們做了一次的整理那我們分階段因為我們有十幾個案子今年要招租因為其實對於每一個需要社會住宅大部分其實都是比較弱勢的家庭\n205860\t233486\t晚一天完工晚一天遭租對他們來說他們就必須要負擔更多的租金因為他必須在外面租所以我們希望說這個部分是不是這個時間不要再延宕因為我也有聽到一種聲音就是說是不是要等到520之後要等我們的賴總統或卓院長去檢採所以才要延到5月底跟這個有關對我希望不要這樣所以希望在這邊我們可以加速的這個前進那另外就是\n234346\t255556\t根據萬華安居預計要收多少租金這個其實我們跟部裡面其實都在檢討討論當中那原則上當然是以符合住戶可負擔這個標準這是一定要遵守的好 依照這個估價師的推算租金可能會超過4萬元是不是有這麼一回事\n256516\t278661\t目前我想這不會發生這絕對不會發生因為依照我們目前的社會住宅的租金來說剛剛也提到其實會去需要社會住宅的這些住戶大部分都是比較弱勢他們也有這個需要所以那個租金對他們來說當然相對高低對他們來說相對重要所以目前我們大概是\n279441\t304677\t這個社會住宅的租金比如說如果由估價式來估算通常是會用市場租金的七到八折雖然是低於市場行情啦但是對於在都會區來說事實上這個租金的壓力也是非常的大那相對於我們可以比較一下日本韓國跟香港他們的社會住宅租金多半是以收入能力來去估算所以計算之後大概會是我們\n305357\t320264\t地區租金的四到五折所以要這邊實質上又未必是這樣其實日本的UR guide的住宅其實就是市場租金在租並沒有用市場租金的四到五折在租那另外呢台灣確實是比較好啦那日本呢你剛講韓國呢\n324067\t340067\t韓國其實有很多種在這邊我想提出這問題就是希望部長跟這個董事長就是定價的部分因為既然是要幫助弱勢的團體還是希望能夠定價既然盡量符合各地的一個標準依地區別好嗎還有依他的收入\n341434\t368357\t然後另外再請教一下這個部長就是我們現在台灣我們現在都市更新因為我們現在老宅大概超過30年有超過500萬戶所以現在在都市更新的這個危老都市更新其實有一點緩慢那請問部長這個是不是我們現在的這個都跟的這個在推動的時候我們是不是比較注重能不能談的成而不是關心地主跟住戶分的公不公平\n371637\t390202\t在我們的都更違老條例裡面比較側重的是屬於程序上面的合乎我們的行政規範所以對於實質上就是能不能有分多少的利潤或者我們比較沒有介入也就是我們剛剛所說的要把這樣子各種不同的合建合夥甚至入股把它放到\n390782\t418605\t法條裡面啊對公部門來講確實在處理上有點困難因為一般的我說一般我們的人民啊針對面對這樣的更新的時候其實他們都很多的疑問而且因為不熟悉所以比如說像我們租賃的時候有租賃定型化契約範本然後呢我們在這個預售屋的時候預售屋的定型化契約範本那我們是不是可以針對都市更新的契約也訂一個範本呢跟委員報告就是說\n419954\t448593\t也就是因為在尤其是合建這個部分形態太多種那我剛剛說明就是說從早期很單純的協議合建其實延伸到最後有這個協議有這個合建分屋合建分層合建分售甚至有用入股合資或是異地的方式所以就是因為類型太多種所以在過程當中而且都純屬私人之間的一個權利交換\n449814\t476026\t權力交換所以變成說所以署長的意思說要用一個這個要用一個範本去約束他們其實反而會造成因為那其實是一個參考嘛雙方的我說明一下所以為什麼過去在我們跟地方政府討論的過程當中大家比較傾向用注意事項也就是說把可能的樣態那現在有注意事項嗎用注意事項的方式提醒雙方要簽這一類的時候那現在有注意事項嗎現在雙北有\n478027\t483971\t因為地方政府對這一類的法規跟處理機制不太一樣所以我們一般傾向由地方政府自己去訂比較能符合他們自己的實務上的一個運作的方式是這樣\n496519\t518854\t那目前只有雙倍嘛 就代表還有很多縣市是還沒有推動對 所以我說明一下就是說我們比較不贊成修法是因為修法太剛性了反而會限制了雙方的發展那改用注意事項或者是提醒他們有所謂風險控管的時候那不管是注意事項或是其他我是認為說既然包括租屋期幾千塊的事情幾萬塊的事情就有一個定型化契約\n519614\t538509\t然後我們預售戶有一個定型化機會反而是都跟這麼重要的事情牽扯的可能上千萬幾百萬的這種都目前是沒有那剛剛署長如果說的這個定型化的辦法嘛你們現在說地方的是就是注意事項是不是可以加速來去推動各縣市來這個我們有正在研議當中\n541491\t549553\t那有沒有預計大概多久可以完成我想我們今年度來跟地方政府在廣為在開會大家一起來研討希望今年度可以完成好嗎是謝謝然後另外最後一個問題就是要請教一下就是因為其實我們目前就像我剛剛講的我想要都更的這些住戶或者是說我們這些相關的民眾他們其實對於市場的不管是產業啦有多少業者啦怎麼整合啦產業規模有多少\n566557\t584444\t其實大家都不了解所以住都中心有沒有可能可以成立一個這樣子的共享平台讓我如果需要都更的人可以到這個平台裡去查詢到相關的資料包括比如說公司的名冊顧問庫或是跟地方政府共享的協力平台可不可以成立一個這樣的平台\n585168\t613802\t包委員因為國家都督中心在都更的業務上比較是公辦都更為主所以民間的都更案原則上我們比較不會去介入和參與不是要介入參與我的意思是說成立一個這樣的平台讓我們如果有需要的民眾他可以上網去看那因為其實都督中心當時成立的目的就是希望能夠有做一些比如說是相關的分析資料收集統計分析研究規劃跟教育訓練\n615062\t639359\t感謝委員 這個我們會來我們現在本來就有收集資料啦我想我們來修正我們的一些網站的資料然後推廣給所有的這個民眾來瞭解我們一樣在今年就已經都有陸陸續續在做一些修改那是不是今年年底可以完成嗎應該可以那就麻煩一下就是說我們這個讓我們一些需要用到這個更新條例的人或是需要更新的這些民眾能夠有所\n640840\t655271\t徐委員那個是不是這樣子就是國土署長剛已經有提到我們是不是盡量把這些資訊能夠公開放在國土署的網站可以可以其實放在哪都沒有問題處理公辦都跟比較不太一樣其實放在哪裡都沒有問題只是主要讓大家可以看得到好謝謝徐議政委員的資訊\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們請內政部劉部長還有住宿中心花董事長劉部長 花董事長有請\n委員長部長早還有董事長早我想當時我們成立這個住都中心當然主要就是要推動都市內老舊建築物的重建還有強化政府主導都市更新的機制而且擴大我們執行都市更新的量能所以今年住都中心在2月12的時候有對外宣布有一個新聞稿就是中央興建首座運用預住公法的新辦的社會住宅萬華安居\n那二月底預計要公開招租總共戶數有300戶有三種房型那除了套房195戶兩房的89戶三房的16戶那當然預租工法依照當時花董事長的說法是其實現在是一個比較可以節省人力而且呢又可以讓我們的工期能夠加速進行然後另外還有呢就是可以提升施工品質所以現在租屋中心也在推這個預租工法\n我看到目前除了萬華安居還有新竹的中亞安居桃園的普興安居跟新竹的京城安居目前是這四個是嗎那未來會繼續推動嗎\n謝謝委員的關注我想預租工法絕對是國內不管是社宅或一般民間的開發案應該要擴大推動的那我們當然希望透過社宅的推動來示範讓這些營造廠跟民間都能夠了解那後續我們預計每年至少要以兩處社宅來推動預租工法\n那因為當時用預注工法主要就是覺得它可以縮短工期嘛對不對可以縮短時間我想不僅是這樣因為它其實是比較先進的營造工法對於未來台灣營造人力的短缺絕對是越來越嚴重所以說我們透過預注工法的推動希望讓預注的產業在台灣能夠擴大\n當時您是說2月底就會公開遭租了那但是到目前為止都還沒有的原因是什麼其實確實我們也跟一些我們其他的今年要遭租的案子做了整體的檢討那現在預計應該在這個5月的下旬應該就會公告請問一下因為我上你們的網站看您可以看一下這個圖片4月13日就已經竣工了\n那為什麼要到五月底才能招租因為你本來預計的是二月底我們竣工其實只是工程的一個階段後面還有一些最後的細節那還要申請死照等等等等那你那時候說二月底可以辦理招租現在要到五月底\n因為實質上可以進入實質入住啦大概還是要到可能10月到年底才是實質可以入住所以我5月遭住其實還是來得及那你當時2月12的時候說2月要遭住那現在延宕了三個月的理由是什麼\n其實我剛剛跟委員報告過實際上我們就是我們把今年預計要可能要完工了我們做了一次的整理那我們分階段因為我們有十幾個案子今年要招租因為其實對於每一個需要社會住宅大部分其實都是比較弱勢的家庭\n晚一天完工晚一天遭租對他們來說他們就必須要負擔更多的租金因為他必須在外面租所以我們希望說這個部分是不是這個時間不要再延宕因為我也有聽到一種聲音就是說是不是要等到520之後要等我們的賴總統或卓院長去檢採所以才要延到5月底跟這個有關對我希望不要這樣所以希望在這邊我們可以加速的這個前進那另外就是\n根據萬華安居預計要收多少租金這個其實我們跟部裡面其實都在檢討討論當中那原則上當然是以符合住戶可負擔這個標準這是一定要遵守的好 依照這個估價師的推算租金可能會超過4萬元是不是有這麼一回事\n目前我想這不會發生這絕對不會發生因為依照我們目前的社會住宅的租金來說剛剛也提到其實會去需要社會住宅的這些住戶大部分都是比較弱勢他們也有這個需要所以那個租金對他們來說當然相對高低對他們來說相對重要所以目前我們大概是\n這個社會住宅的租金比如說如果由估價式來估算通常是會用市場租金的七到八折雖然是低於市場行情啦但是對於在都會區來說事實上這個租金的壓力也是非常的大那相對於我們可以比較一下日本韓國跟香港他們的社會住宅租金多半是以收入能力來去估算所以計算之後大概會是我們\n地區租金的四到五折所以要這邊實質上又未必是這樣其實日本的UR guide的住宅其實就是市場租金在租並沒有用市場租金的四到五折在租那另外呢台灣確實是比較好啦那日本呢你剛講韓國呢\n韓國其實有很多種在這邊我想提出這問題就是希望部長跟這個董事長就是定價的部分因為既然是要幫助弱勢的團體還是希望能夠定價既然盡量符合各地的一個標準依地區別好嗎還有依他的收入\n然後另外再請教一下這個部長就是我們現在台灣我們現在都市更新因為我們現在老宅大概超過30年有超過500萬戶所以現在在都市更新的這個危老都市更新其實有一點緩慢那請問部長這個是不是我們現在的這個都跟的這個在推動的時候我們是不是比較注重能不能談的成而不是關心地主跟住戶分的公不公平\n在我們的都更違老條例裡面比較側重的是屬於程序上面的合乎我們的行政規範所以對於實質上就是能不能有分多少的利潤或者我們比較沒有介入也就是我們剛剛所說的要把這樣子各種不同的合建合夥甚至入股把它放到\n法條裡面啊對公部門來講確實在處理上有點困難因為一般的我說一般我們的人民啊針對面對這樣的更新的時候其實他們都很多的疑問而且因為不熟悉所以比如說像我們租賃的時候有租賃定型化契約範本然後呢我們在這個預售屋的時候預售屋的定型化契約範本那我們是不是可以針對都市更新的契約也訂一個範本呢跟委員報告就是說\n也就是因為在尤其是合建這個部分形態太多種那我剛剛說明就是說從早期很單純的協議合建其實延伸到最後有這個協議有這個合建分屋合建分層合建分售甚至有用入股合資或是異地的方式所以就是因為類型太多種所以在過程當中而且都純屬私人之間的一個權利交換\n權力交換所以變成說所以署長的意思說要用一個這個要用一個範本去約束他們其實反而會造成因為那其實是一個參考嘛雙方的我說明一下所以為什麼過去在我們跟地方政府討論的過程當中大家比較傾向用注意事項也就是說把可能的樣態那現在有注意事項嗎用注意事項的方式提醒雙方要簽這一類的時候那現在有注意事項嗎現在雙北有\n因為地方政府對這一類的法規跟處理機制不太一樣所以我們一般傾向由地方政府自己去訂比較能符合他們自己的實務上的一個運作的方式是這樣\n那目前只有雙倍嘛 就代表還有很多縣市是還沒有推動對 所以我說明一下就是說我們比較不贊成修法是因為修法太剛性了反而會限制了雙方的發展那改用注意事項或者是提醒他們有所謂風險控管的時候那不管是注意事項或是其他我是認為說既然包括租屋期幾千塊的事情幾萬塊的事情就有一個定型化契約\n然後我們預售戶有一個定型化機會反而是都跟這麼重要的事情牽扯的可能上千萬幾百萬的這種都目前是沒有那剛剛署長如果說的這個定型化的辦法嘛你們現在說地方的是就是注意事項是不是可以加速來去推動各縣市來這個我們有正在研議當中\n那有沒有預計大概多久可以完成我想我們今年度來跟地方政府在廣為在開會大家一起來研討希望今年度可以完成好嗎是謝謝然後另外最後一個問題就是要請教一下就是因為其實我們目前就像我剛剛講的我想要都更的這些住戶或者是說我們這些相關的民眾他們其實對於市場的不管是產業啦有多少業者啦怎麼整合啦產業規模有多少\n其實大家都不了解所以住都中心有沒有可能可以成立一個這樣子的共享平台讓我如果需要都更的人可以到這個平台裡去查詢到相關的資料包括比如說公司的名冊顧問庫或是跟地方政府共享的協力平台可不可以成立一個這樣的平台\n包委員因為國家都督中心在都更的業務上比較是公辦都更為主所以民間的都更案原則上我們比較不會去介入和參與不是要介入參與我的意思是說成立一個這樣的平台讓我們如果有需要的民眾他可以上網去看那因為其實都督中心當時成立的目的就是希望能夠有做一些比如說是相關的分析資料收集統計分析研究規劃跟教育訓練\n感謝委員 這個我們會來我們現在本來就有收集資料啦我想我們來修正我們的一些網站的資料然後推廣給所有的這個民眾來瞭解我們一樣在今年就已經都有陸陸續續在做一些修改那是不是今年年底可以完成嗎應該可以那就麻煩一下就是說我們這個讓我們一些需要用到這個更新條例的人或是需要更新的這些民眾能夠有所\n徐委員那個是不是這樣子就是國土署長剛已經有提到我們是不是盡量把這些資訊能夠公開放在國土署的網站可以可以其實放在哪都沒有問題處理公辦都跟比較不太一樣其實放在哪裡都沒有問題只是主要讓大家可以看得到好謝謝徐議政委員的資訊\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.248 --> 00:07.779\n謝謝主席我們請內政部劉部長還有住宿中心花董事長劉部長花董事長有請\n\n00:12.546 --> 00:40.309\n委員長部長早還有董事長早我想當時我們成立這個住都中心當然主要就是要推動都市內老舊建築物的重建還有強化政府主導都市更新的機制而且擴大我們執行都市更新的量能所以今年住都中心在2月12的時候有對外宣布有一個新聞稿就是中央興建首座運用預住公法的新辦的社會住宅萬華安居\n\n00:40.919 --> 01:10.143\n那二月底預計要公開招租總共戶數有300戶有三種房型那除了套房195戶兩房的89戶三房的16戶那當然預租工法依照當時花董事長的說法是其實現在是一個比較可以節省人力而且呢又可以讓我們的工期能夠加速進行然後另外還有呢就是可以提升施工品質所以現在租屋中心也在推這個預租工法\n\n01:10.902 --> 01:19.051\n我看到目前除了萬華安居還有新竹的中亞安居桃園的普興安居跟新竹的京城安居目前是這四個是嗎那未來會繼續推動嗎\n\n01:21.765 --> 01:43.594\n謝謝委員的關注我想預租工法絕對是國內不管是社宅或一般民間的開發案應該要擴大推動的那我們當然希望透過社宅的推動來示範讓這些營造廠跟民間都能夠了解那後續我們預計每年至少要以兩處社宅來推動預租工法\n\n01:43.894 --> 02:02.804\n那因為當時用預注工法主要就是覺得它可以縮短工期嘛對不對可以縮短時間我想不僅是這樣因為它其實是比較先進的營造工法對於未來台灣營造人力的短缺絕對是越來越嚴重所以說我們透過預注工法的推動希望讓預注的產業在台灣能夠擴大\n\n02:07.246 --> 02:24.574\n當時您是說2月底就會公開遭租了那但是到目前為止都還沒有的原因是什麼其實確實我們也跟一些我們其他的今年要遭租的案子做了整體的檢討那現在預計應該在這個5月的下旬應該就會公告請問一下因為我上你們的網站看您可以看一下這個圖片4月13日就已經竣工了\n\n02:32.657 --> 02:49.979\n那為什麼要到五月底才能招租因為你本來預計的是二月底我們竣工其實只是工程的一個階段後面還有一些最後的細節那還要申請死照等等等等那你那時候說二月底可以辦理招租現在要到五月底\n\n02:50.599 --> 03:07.288\n因為實質上可以進入實質入住啦大概還是要到可能10月到年底才是實質可以入住所以我5月遭住其實還是來得及那你當時2月12的時候說2月要遭住那現在延宕了三個月的理由是什麼\n\n03:09.156 --> 03:25.240\n其實我剛剛跟委員報告過實際上我們就是我們把今年預計要可能要完工了我們做了一次的整理那我們分階段因為我們有十幾個案子今年要招租因為其實對於每一個需要社會住宅大部分其實都是比較弱勢的家庭\n\n03:25.860 --> 03:53.486\n晚一天完工晚一天遭租對他們來說他們就必須要負擔更多的租金因為他必須在外面租所以我們希望說這個部分是不是這個時間不要再延宕因為我也有聽到一種聲音就是說是不是要等到520之後要等我們的賴總統或卓院長去檢採所以才要延到5月底跟這個有關對我希望不要這樣所以希望在這邊我們可以加速的這個前進那另外就是\n\n03:54.346 --> 04:15.556\n根據萬華安居預計要收多少租金這個其實我們跟部裡面其實都在檢討討論當中那原則上當然是以符合住戶可負擔這個標準這是一定要遵守的好依照這個估價師的推算租金可能會超過4萬元是不是有這麼一回事\n\n04:16.516 --> 04:38.661\n目前我想這不會發生這絕對不會發生因為依照我們目前的社會住宅的租金來說剛剛也提到其實會去需要社會住宅的這些住戶大部分都是比較弱勢他們也有這個需要所以那個租金對他們來說當然相對高低對他們來說相對重要所以目前我們大概是\n\n04:39.441 --> 05:04.677\n這個社會住宅的租金比如說如果由估價式來估算通常是會用市場租金的七到八折雖然是低於市場行情啦但是對於在都會區來說事實上這個租金的壓力也是非常的大那相對於我們可以比較一下日本韓國跟香港他們的社會住宅租金多半是以收入能力來去估算所以計算之後大概會是我們\n\n05:05.357 --> 05:20.264\n地區租金的四到五折所以要這邊實質上又未必是這樣其實日本的URguide的住宅其實就是市場租金在租並沒有用市場租金的四到五折在租那另外呢台灣確實是比較好啦那日本呢你剛講韓國呢\n\n05:24.067 --> 05:40.067\n韓國其實有很多種在這邊我想提出這問題就是希望部長跟這個董事長就是定價的部分因為既然是要幫助弱勢的團體還是希望能夠定價既然盡量符合各地的一個標準依地區別好嗎還有依他的收入\n\n05:41.434 --> 06:08.357\n然後另外再請教一下這個部長就是我們現在台灣我們現在都市更新因為我們現在老宅大概超過30年有超過500萬戶所以現在在都市更新的這個危老都市更新其實有一點緩慢那請問部長這個是不是我們現在的這個都跟的這個在推動的時候我們是不是比較注重能不能談的成而不是關心地主跟住戶分的公不公平\n\n06:11.637 --> 06:30.202\n在我們的都更違老條例裡面比較側重的是屬於程序上面的合乎我們的行政規範所以對於實質上就是能不能有分多少的利潤或者我們比較沒有介入也就是我們剛剛所說的要把這樣子各種不同的合建合夥甚至入股把它放到\n\n06:30.782 --> 06:58.605\n法條裡面啊對公部門來講確實在處理上有點困難因為一般的我說一般我們的人民啊針對面對這樣的更新的時候其實他們都很多的疑問而且因為不熟悉所以比如說像我們租賃的時候有租賃定型化契約範本然後呢我們在這個預售屋的時候預售屋的定型化契約範本那我們是不是可以針對都市更新的契約也訂一個範本呢跟委員報告就是說\n\n06:59.954 --> 07:28.593\n也就是因為在尤其是合建這個部分形態太多種那我剛剛說明就是說從早期很單純的協議合建其實延伸到最後有這個協議有這個合建分屋合建分層合建分售甚至有用入股合資或是異地的方式所以就是因為類型太多種所以在過程當中而且都純屬私人之間的一個權利交換\n\n07:29.814 --> 07:56.026\n權力交換所以變成說所以署長的意思說要用一個這個要用一個範本去約束他們其實反而會造成因為那其實是一個參考嘛雙方的我說明一下所以為什麼過去在我們跟地方政府討論的過程當中大家比較傾向用注意事項也就是說把可能的樣態那現在有注意事項嗎用注意事項的方式提醒雙方要簽這一類的時候那現在有注意事項嗎現在雙北有\n\n07:58.027 --> 08:03.971\n因為地方政府對這一類的法規跟處理機制不太一樣所以我們一般傾向由地方政府自己去訂比較能符合他們自己的實務上的一個運作的方式是這樣\n\n08:16.519 --> 08:38.854\n那目前只有雙倍嘛就代表還有很多縣市是還沒有推動對所以我說明一下就是說我們比較不贊成修法是因為修法太剛性了反而會限制了雙方的發展那改用注意事項或者是提醒他們有所謂風險控管的時候那不管是注意事項或是其他我是認為說既然包括租屋期幾千塊的事情幾萬塊的事情就有一個定型化契約\n\n08:39.614 --> 08:58.509\n然後我們預售戶有一個定型化機會反而是都跟這麼重要的事情牽扯的可能上千萬幾百萬的這種都目前是沒有那剛剛署長如果說的這個定型化的辦法嘛你們現在說地方的是就是注意事項是不是可以加速來去推動各縣市來這個我們有正在研議當中\n\n09:01.491 --> 09:09.553\n那有沒有預計大概多久可以完成我想我們今年度來跟地方政府在廣為在開會大家一起來研討希望今年度可以完成好嗎是謝謝然後另外最後一個問題就是要請教一下就是因為其實我們目前就像我剛剛講的我想要都更的這些住戶或者是說我們這些相關的民眾他們其實對於市場的不管是產業啦有多少業者啦怎麼整合啦產業規模有多少\n\n09:26.557 --> 09:44.444\n其實大家都不了解所以住都中心有沒有可能可以成立一個這樣子的共享平台讓我如果需要都更的人可以到這個平台裡去查詢到相關的資料包括比如說公司的名冊顧問庫或是跟地方政府共享的協力平台可不可以成立一個這樣的平台\n\n09:45.168 --> 10:13.802\n包委員因為國家都督中心在都更的業務上比較是公辦都更為主所以民間的都更案原則上我們比較不會去介入和參與不是要介入參與我的意思是說成立一個這樣的平台讓我們如果有需要的民眾他可以上網去看那因為其實都督中心當時成立的目的就是希望能夠有做一些比如說是相關的分析資料收集統計分析研究規劃跟教育訓練\n\n10:15.062 --> 10:39.359\n感謝委員這個我們會來我們現在本來就有收集資料啦我想我們來修正我們的一些網站的資料然後推廣給所有的這個民眾來瞭解我們一樣在今年就已經都有陸陸續續在做一些修改那是不是今年年底可以完成嗎應該可以那就麻煩一下就是說我們這個讓我們一些需要用到這個更新條例的人或是需要更新的這些民眾能夠有所\n\n10:40.840 --> 10:55.271\n徐委員那個是不是這樣子就是國土署長剛已經有提到我們是不是盡量把這些資訊能夠公開放在國土署的網站可以可以其實放在哪都沒有問題處理公辦都跟比較不太一樣其實放在哪裡都沒有問題只是主要讓大家可以看得到好謝謝徐議政委員的資訊\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.248,"end":7.779,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請內政部劉部長還有住宿中心花董事長劉部長 花董事長有請"},{"start":12.546,"end":40.309,"text":"委員長部長早還有董事長早我想當時我們成立這個住都中心當然主要就是要推動都市內老舊建築物的重建還有強化政府主導都市更新的機制而且擴大我們執行都市更新的量能所以今年住都中心在2月12的時候有對外宣布有一個新聞稿就是中央興建首座運用預住公法的新辦的社會住宅萬華安居"},{"start":40.919,"end":70.143,"text":"那二月底預計要公開招租總共戶數有300戶有三種房型那除了套房195戶兩房的89戶三房的16戶那當然預租工法依照當時花董事長的說法是其實現在是一個比較可以節省人力而且呢又可以讓我們的工期能夠加速進行然後另外還有呢就是可以提升施工品質所以現在租屋中心也在推這個預租工法"},{"start":70.902,"end":79.051,"text":"我看到目前除了萬華安居還有新竹的中亞安居桃園的普興安居跟新竹的京城安居目前是這四個是嗎那未來會繼續推動嗎"},{"start":81.765,"end":103.594,"text":"謝謝委員的關注我想預租工法絕對是國內不管是社宅或一般民間的開發案應該要擴大推動的那我們當然希望透過社宅的推動來示範讓這些營造廠跟民間都能夠了解那後續我們預計每年至少要以兩處社宅來推動預租工法"},{"start":103.894,"end":122.804,"text":"那因為當時用預注工法主要就是覺得它可以縮短工期嘛對不對可以縮短時間我想不僅是這樣因為它其實是比較先進的營造工法對於未來台灣營造人力的短缺絕對是越來越嚴重所以說我們透過預注工法的推動希望讓預注的產業在台灣能夠擴大"},{"start":127.246,"end":144.574,"text":"當時您是說2月底就會公開遭租了那但是到目前為止都還沒有的原因是什麼其實確實我們也跟一些我們其他的今年要遭租的案子做了整體的檢討那現在預計應該在這個5月的下旬應該就會公告請問一下因為我上你們的網站看您可以看一下這個圖片4月13日就已經竣工了"},{"start":152.657,"end":169.979,"text":"那為什麼要到五月底才能招租因為你本來預計的是二月底我們竣工其實只是工程的一個階段後面還有一些最後的細節那還要申請死照等等等等那你那時候說二月底可以辦理招租現在要到五月底"},{"start":170.599,"end":187.288,"text":"因為實質上可以進入實質入住啦大概還是要到可能10月到年底才是實質可以入住所以我5月遭住其實還是來得及那你當時2月12的時候說2月要遭住那現在延宕了三個月的理由是什麼"},{"start":189.156,"end":205.24,"text":"其實我剛剛跟委員報告過實際上我們就是我們把今年預計要可能要完工了我們做了一次的整理那我們分階段因為我們有十幾個案子今年要招租因為其實對於每一個需要社會住宅大部分其實都是比較弱勢的家庭"},{"start":205.86,"end":233.486,"text":"晚一天完工晚一天遭租對他們來說他們就必須要負擔更多的租金因為他必須在外面租所以我們希望說這個部分是不是這個時間不要再延宕因為我也有聽到一種聲音就是說是不是要等到520之後要等我們的賴總統或卓院長去檢採所以才要延到5月底跟這個有關對我希望不要這樣所以希望在這邊我們可以加速的這個前進那另外就是"},{"start":234.346,"end":255.556,"text":"根據萬華安居預計要收多少租金這個其實我們跟部裡面其實都在檢討討論當中那原則上當然是以符合住戶可負擔這個標準這是一定要遵守的好 依照這個估價師的推算租金可能會超過4萬元是不是有這麼一回事"},{"start":256.516,"end":278.661,"text":"目前我想這不會發生這絕對不會發生因為依照我們目前的社會住宅的租金來說剛剛也提到其實會去需要社會住宅的這些住戶大部分都是比較弱勢他們也有這個需要所以那個租金對他們來說當然相對高低對他們來說相對重要所以目前我們大概是"},{"start":279.441,"end":304.677,"text":"這個社會住宅的租金比如說如果由估價式來估算通常是會用市場租金的七到八折雖然是低於市場行情啦但是對於在都會區來說事實上這個租金的壓力也是非常的大那相對於我們可以比較一下日本韓國跟香港他們的社會住宅租金多半是以收入能力來去估算所以計算之後大概會是我們"},{"start":305.357,"end":320.264,"text":"地區租金的四到五折所以要這邊實質上又未必是這樣其實日本的UR guide的住宅其實就是市場租金在租並沒有用市場租金的四到五折在租那另外呢台灣確實是比較好啦那日本呢你剛講韓國呢"},{"start":324.067,"end":340.067,"text":"韓國其實有很多種在這邊我想提出這問題就是希望部長跟這個董事長就是定價的部分因為既然是要幫助弱勢的團體還是希望能夠定價既然盡量符合各地的一個標準依地區別好嗎還有依他的收入"},{"start":341.434,"end":368.357,"text":"然後另外再請教一下這個部長就是我們現在台灣我們現在都市更新因為我們現在老宅大概超過30年有超過500萬戶所以現在在都市更新的這個危老都市更新其實有一點緩慢那請問部長這個是不是我們現在的這個都跟的這個在推動的時候我們是不是比較注重能不能談的成而不是關心地主跟住戶分的公不公平"},{"start":371.637,"end":390.202,"text":"在我們的都更違老條例裡面比較側重的是屬於程序上面的合乎我們的行政規範所以對於實質上就是能不能有分多少的利潤或者我們比較沒有介入也就是我們剛剛所說的要把這樣子各種不同的合建合夥甚至入股把它放到"},{"start":390.782,"end":418.605,"text":"法條裡面啊對公部門來講確實在處理上有點困難因為一般的我說一般我們的人民啊針對面對這樣的更新的時候其實他們都很多的疑問而且因為不熟悉所以比如說像我們租賃的時候有租賃定型化契約範本然後呢我們在這個預售屋的時候預售屋的定型化契約範本那我們是不是可以針對都市更新的契約也訂一個範本呢跟委員報告就是說"},{"start":419.954,"end":448.593,"text":"也就是因為在尤其是合建這個部分形態太多種那我剛剛說明就是說從早期很單純的協議合建其實延伸到最後有這個協議有這個合建分屋合建分層合建分售甚至有用入股合資或是異地的方式所以就是因為類型太多種所以在過程當中而且都純屬私人之間的一個權利交換"},{"start":449.814,"end":476.026,"text":"權力交換所以變成說所以署長的意思說要用一個這個要用一個範本去約束他們其實反而會造成因為那其實是一個參考嘛雙方的我說明一下所以為什麼過去在我們跟地方政府討論的過程當中大家比較傾向用注意事項也就是說把可能的樣態那現在有注意事項嗎用注意事項的方式提醒雙方要簽這一類的時候那現在有注意事項嗎現在雙北有"},{"start":478.027,"end":483.971,"text":"因為地方政府對這一類的法規跟處理機制不太一樣所以我們一般傾向由地方政府自己去訂比較能符合他們自己的實務上的一個運作的方式是這樣"},{"start":496.519,"end":518.854,"text":"那目前只有雙倍嘛 就代表還有很多縣市是還沒有推動對 所以我說明一下就是說我們比較不贊成修法是因為修法太剛性了反而會限制了雙方的發展那改用注意事項或者是提醒他們有所謂風險控管的時候那不管是注意事項或是其他我是認為說既然包括租屋期幾千塊的事情幾萬塊的事情就有一個定型化契約"},{"start":519.614,"end":538.509,"text":"然後我們預售戶有一個定型化機會反而是都跟這麼重要的事情牽扯的可能上千萬幾百萬的這種都目前是沒有那剛剛署長如果說的這個定型化的辦法嘛你們現在說地方的是就是注意事項是不是可以加速來去推動各縣市來這個我們有正在研議當中"},{"start":541.491,"end":549.553,"text":"那有沒有預計大概多久可以完成我想我們今年度來跟地方政府在廣為在開會大家一起來研討希望今年度可以完成好嗎是謝謝然後另外最後一個問題就是要請教一下就是因為其實我們目前就像我剛剛講的我想要都更的這些住戶或者是說我們這些相關的民眾他們其實對於市場的不管是產業啦有多少業者啦怎麼整合啦產業規模有多少"},{"start":566.557,"end":584.444,"text":"其實大家都不了解所以住都中心有沒有可能可以成立一個這樣子的共享平台讓我如果需要都更的人可以到這個平台裡去查詢到相關的資料包括比如說公司的名冊顧問庫或是跟地方政府共享的協力平台可不可以成立一個這樣的平台"},{"start":585.168,"end":613.802,"text":"包委員因為國家都督中心在都更的業務上比較是公辦都更為主所以民間的都更案原則上我們比較不會去介入和參與不是要介入參與我的意思是說成立一個這樣的平台讓我們如果有需要的民眾他可以上網去看那因為其實都督中心當時成立的目的就是希望能夠有做一些比如說是相關的分析資料收集統計分析研究規劃跟教育訓練"},{"start":615.062,"end":639.359,"text":"感謝委員 這個我們會來我們現在本來就有收集資料啦我想我們來修正我們的一些網站的資料然後推廣給所有的這個民眾來瞭解我們一樣在今年就已經都有陸陸續續在做一些修改那是不是今年年底可以完成嗎應該可以那就麻煩一下就是說我們這個讓我們一些需要用到這個更新條例的人或是需要更新的這些民眾能夠有所"},{"start":640.84,"end":655.271,"text":"徐委員那個是不是這樣子就是國土署長剛已經有提到我們是不是盡量把這些資訊能夠公開放在國土署的網站可以可以其實放在哪都沒有問題處理公辦都跟比較不太一樣其實放在哪裡都沒有問題只是主要讓大家可以看得到好謝謝徐議政委員的資訊"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":279,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（9時58分）謝謝主席。我們請內政部劉部長，還有住都中心花董事長。"],["主席：劉部長、花董事長有請。"],["劉部長世芳：委員早。"],["許委員宇甄：部長早，還有董事長早。我想當時我們成立這個住都中心，當然主要是推動都市內老舊建築物的重建，還有強化政府主導都市更新的機制，而且擴大執行都市更新的量能，所以住都中心在今年2月12日的時候有對外發布一個新聞稿，就是中央興建首座運用預鑄工法興辦的社會住宅「萬華安居」，2月底預計要公開招租，總共戶數300戶，有三種房型，套房195戶、兩房89戶、三房16戶。當然依照當時花董事長的說法，預鑄工法其實比較節省人力，而且能讓工期加速進行，另外還可以提升施工品質，所以現在住都中心也在推預鑄工法。我看到目前除了「萬華安居」，還有新竹的「中雅安居」、桃園的「埔心安居」跟新竹的「金城安居」，目前是這4個，是嗎？"],["花董事長敬群：是。"],["許委員宇甄：未來會繼續推動嗎？"],["花董事長敬群：謝謝委員的關注，我想預鑄工法絕對是國內不管是社宅或一般民間的開發案應該要擴大推動的，我們當然希望透過社宅的推動來示範，讓這些營造廠跟民間都能夠了解，後續我們預計每年至少要以兩處社宅來推動預鑄工法。"],["許委員宇甄：當時用預鑄工法主要就是覺得它可以縮短工期、可以縮短時間。"],["花董事長敬群：我想不僅是這樣，它其實是比較先進的營造工法，而且未來臺灣營造人力短缺絕對是越來越嚴重，所以我們一直透過預鑄工法的推動，希望讓預鑄的產業在臺灣能夠擴大，讓未來的前景會比較好。"],["許委員宇甄：當時您說2月底就會公開招租了，但是到目前為止，都還沒有的原因是什麼？"],["花董事長敬群：跟委員報告，確實我們也跟今年要招租的其他案子做了整體的檢討，現在預計在5月下旬應該就會公告。"],["許委員宇甄：好，請問一下，我上你們的網站看，你看一下這個圖片，4月13日就已經竣工了，為什麼要到5月底才能招租？因為你本來預計的是2月底。"],["花董事長敬群：其實竣工只是工程的一個階段，後面還有一些最後的細節，還要申請使照等等，所以真正可以入住要到……"],["許委員宇甄：你那時候說2月底可以辦理招租，現在要到5月底的原因是什麼？"],["花董事長敬群：可能還是要到10月至年底才是實質可以入住，竣工……"],["許委員宇甄：我現在是指招租。"],["花董事長敬群：所以我5月招租，其實還是來得及。"],["許委員宇甄：那你當時2月12日的時候說2月要招租，現在延宕了三個月的理由是什麼？"],["花董事長敬群：我剛剛跟委員報告過，實際上我們把今年預計可能要完工的案子做了一次整理，我們分階段處理，因為我們有十幾個案子今年要招租……"],["許委員宇甄：其實需要社會住宅的大部分都是比較弱勢的家庭。"],["花董事長敬群：是。"],["許委員宇甄：晚一天完工、晚一天招租，對他們來說就必須要負擔更多的租金，因為他必須在外面租屋。"],["花董事長敬群：了解。"],["許委員宇甄：所以我們希望這個時間不要再延宕。"],["花董事長敬群：好。"],["許委員宇甄：我也有聽到一種聲音，是不是要等到520之後、要等賴總統或卓院長去剪綵，所以才要延到5月底？"],["花董事長敬群：跟這個無關。"],["許委員宇甄：對，我希望不要這樣，在這邊希望我們可以加速前進。"],["花董事長敬群：好，謝謝。"],["許委員宇甄：另外，「萬華安居」預計要收多少租金？"],["花董事長敬群：其實我們跟部裡面都在討論當中，原則上然是符合住戶可負擔的標準，這是一定要遵守的。"],["許委員宇甄：好，依照估價師的推算，租金可能會超過4萬元，是不是有這麼一回事？"],["花董事長敬群：我想這不會發生。"],["許委員宇甄：這絕對不會發生？"],["花董事長敬群：這不會發生。"],["許委員宇甄：依照目前社會住宅的租金來說，剛剛也提到會需要社會住宅的這些住戶，大部分都是比較弱勢，他們也有這個需要。"],["花董事長敬群：是。"],["許委員宇甄：所以租金高低對他們相對重要。"],["花董事長敬群：了解，部長也非常關心。"],["許委員宇甄：所以目前社會住宅的租金如果由估價師來估算，通常會是市場租金的七到八折，雖然是低於市場行情，但是在都會區來說，事實上這個租金的壓力也是非常地大，相對我們可以比較日本、韓國跟香港，他們的社會住宅租金多半是以收入能力來去估算，所以計算之後，大概會是地區租金的四到五折。"],["花董事長敬群：應該不是這樣，實質上未必是這樣。"],["許委員宇甄：沒關係，董事長說明一下。"],["花董事長敬群：其實日本的UR蓋的住宅就是市場租金在租，並沒有用市場租金的四到五折在租。"],["許委員宇甄：是，另外日本呢？"],["花董事長敬群：臺灣確實是比較好。"],["許委員宇甄：日本呢？"],["花董事長敬群：我剛剛講的是日本。"],["許委員宇甄：韓國呢？"],["花董事長敬群：韓國其實有很多種。"],["許委員宇甄：我之所以提出這個問題，就是希望部長跟董事長要注意定價的部分，既然是要幫助弱勢團體，還是希望定價能夠儘量符合各地的標準，可以依地區別及收入來訂定。","另外再請教部長，現在臺灣在都市更新，因為目前超過30年的老宅大概超過500萬戶，所以現在危老都市更新的速度其實有一點緩慢。請問部長，現在在推動都更的時候，我們是不是比較注重能不能談得成，而不是關心地主跟住戶分得公不公平？"],["劉部長世芳：在我們的都更危老條例裡面，比較側重的是屬於程序上有合乎我們的行政規範，所以對於實質上分多少利潤等等，我們比較沒有介入，也就是我們剛剛所說的，要把這樣子各種不同的合建、合夥，甚至入股放到法條裡面，對於公部門來講，確實在處理上有點困難。"],["許委員宇甄：因為一般人民在面對更新的時候，其實他們都有很多的疑問，因為不熟悉。比如說，租賃的時候有租賃定型化契約範本，在預售屋的時候有預售屋定型化契約範本，我們是不是可以針對都市更新的契約也訂一個範本？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，尤其是合建這部分，型態太多種了，我剛剛說明過，從早期很單純的協議合建，衍生到最後有合建分屋、合建分成、合建分售，甚至有用入股合資或是易地的方式，就是因為類型太多種，而且都純屬私人之間的權利交換，所以變成說……"],["許委員宇甄：所以署長的意思是，要用一個……"],["吳署長欣修：要用一個範本去約束他們，其實反而會造成雙方的……"],["許委員宇甄：因為那其實是一個參考。"],["吳署長欣修：我說明一下，為什麼過去我們跟地方政府討論的過程當中，大家比較傾向用注意事項？也就是說，把可能的樣態用注意事項的方式提醒雙方要簽這類的時候……"],["許委員宇甄：現在有注意事項嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：現在雙北有。"],["許委員宇甄：那全國呢？"],["吳署長欣修：我們也有……"],["許委員宇甄：針對這個部分，是國土署在推動，還是地方政府自己在推動？"],["吳署長欣修：是這樣子，我們有跟地方……因為地方政府對於這一類的法規跟處理機制不太一樣，所以我們一般傾向由地方政府自己去訂，比較能符合他們自己實務上運作的方式，所以我們才會建議……"],["許委員宇甄：目前只有雙北有，就代表還有很多縣市還沒有推動，是不是可以加速這樣的推動？"],["吳署長欣修：對，所以我說明一下，我比較不贊成修法，是因為修法太剛性了，反而會限制雙方的發展，如果改用注意事項，或者是提醒他們有所謂風險控管的時候……"],["許委員宇甄：好，不管是注意事項或是其他，我是認為像租屋這種值幾千塊、幾萬塊的事情，就有一個定型化契約，然後預售屋也有一個定型化契約，反而是都更這麼重要的事情，可能會牽扯到上千萬、幾百萬的，反而目前沒有。剛剛署長說的辦法，你剛剛說地方的是……"],["吳署長欣修：注意事項。"],["許委員宇甄：對，注意事項，是不是可以加速來去推動各縣市來成立？"],["吳署長欣修：這個我們正在研擬當中。"],["許委員宇甄：大概預計多久可以完成？"],["吳署長欣修：我們今年度再跟地方政府廣為開會，大家一起來檢討。"],["許委員宇甄：希望今年度可以完成，好嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：對。"],["許委員宇甄：是，謝謝。最後一個問題，就像我剛剛講的，都更的住戶或者相關的民眾，他們對於市場的產業、有多少業者、怎麼整合、產業規模有多少，其實大家都不了解，所以住都中心有沒有可能成立一個這樣子的共享平臺，讓需要都更的人可以到這個平臺去查詢到相關的資料，包括公司的名冊、顧問庫或是跟地方政府共享的協力平臺？可不可以成立一個這樣的平臺？"],["花董事長敬群：報告委員，因為國家住都中心在都更的業務上比較是以公辦都更為主，所以原則上我們比較不會去介入和參與民間的都更案，當然如果部裡面指示我們，我們就來研議。"],["許委員宇甄：不是要介入、參與，我的意思是，成立一個這樣的平臺，讓有需要的民眾可以上網去看。其實住都中心當時成立的目的就是希望做一些相關的分析、資料蒐集、統計分析、研究規劃跟教育訓練，好不好？"],["吳署長欣修：感謝委員，我們本來就有蒐集資料，我們來修正我們一些網站的資料，然後推廣給所有的民眾來了解。"],["許委員宇甄：預計多久可以完成？"],["吳署長欣修：我們一樣在今年就已經……都有陸陸續續在做一些修改。"],["許委員宇甄：今年年底可以完成嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：應該可以。"],["許委員宇甄：那就麻煩一下，讓需要用到這個更新條例的人或是需要更新的民眾能夠有所依循。"],["劉部長世芳：許委員，是不是這樣子，就是國土署署長剛剛已經有提到，我們是不是儘量把這些資訊公開，放在國土署的網站，好嗎？"],["許委員宇甄：可以，其實放在哪都沒有問題。"],["劉部長世芳：因為住都中心是處理公辦都更，比較不太一樣。"],["許委員宇甄：其實放在哪裡都沒有問題，主要是讓大家可以看得到，謝謝。"],["吳署長欣修：這個我們會努力來做。"],["主席：謝謝許宇甄委員質詢。","下一位請王美惠委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":46,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-18","speakers":["牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","麥玉珍","許宇甄","王美惠","黃捷","李柏毅","徐欣瑩","林俊憲","徐富癸","張雅琳","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","高金素梅","邱鎮軍","丁學忠"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-08"],"gazette_id":"1144701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、國家住宅及都市更新中心董事長就「都市更新與危老重建之執行成效及未\n來展望」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具「都市更新條例增訂第四十\n四條之一條文草案」案；三、審查委員賴惠員等23人擬具「都市危險及老舊建築物加速重建條例\n第三條及第十一條條文修正草案」案【第一案至第三案綜合詢答並處理法律提案】","agenda_id":"1144701_00001"}}}