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\"end\": 444.533, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"賴\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 444.533, \"end\": 444.633, \"score\": 0.681}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 444.633, \"end\": 444.733, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 444.733, \"end\": 444.753, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 444.753, \"end\": 444.793, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"派\", \"start\": 444.793, \"end\": 444.913, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 444.913, \"end\": 445.093, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 445.093, \"end\": 445.133, \"score\": 0.491}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"副\", \"start\": 445.133, \"end\": 445.153, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 445.153, \"end\": 445.353, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"副\", \"start\": 445.353, \"end\": 445.453, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 445.453, \"end\": 445.473, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 445.473, \"end\": 445.493, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 445.493, \"end\": 445.533, \"score\": 0.015}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 445.533, \"end\": 445.553, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 445.553, \"end\": 445.633, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 445.633, \"end\": 445.653, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 445.653, \"end\": 445.693, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"忙\", \"start\": 445.693, \"end\": 445.713, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 455.595, \"end\": 465.275, \"text\": \"我想這個總統沒有告訴我們他的考量是什麼我們雙方一定是有好的協調那你們好的協調那是不是請問義大利有沒有反對\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 455.595, \"end\": 455.836, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 455.836, \"end\": 456.677, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 456.677, \"end\": 456.798, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 456.798, \"end\": 456.958, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 456.958, \"end\": 457.279, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 457.279, \"end\": 457.519, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 457.519, \"end\": 457.679, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 457.679, \"end\": 457.8, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 457.8, \"end\": 458.02, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 458.02, \"end\": 458.26, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 458.26, \"end\": 458.421, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 458.421, \"end\": 459.062, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 459.062, \"end\": 459.383, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"雙\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 459.383, \"end\": 459.563, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 459.563, \"end\": 459.663, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 459.663, \"end\": 459.864, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 459.864, \"end\": 460.004, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 460.004, \"end\": 460.144, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 460.144, \"end\": 460.345, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 460.345, \"end\": 461.006, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 461.006, \"end\": 461.146, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 461.146, \"end\": 461.407, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 461.407, \"end\": 461.607, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 461.607, \"end\": 462.229, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 462.229, \"end\": 462.489, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 462.489, \"end\": 462.649, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 462.649, \"end\": 462.77, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 462.77, \"end\": 464.714, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 464.714, \"end\": 464.874, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 464.874, \"end\": 464.974, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 464.974, \"end\": 465.054, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 465.054, \"end\": 465.154, \"score\": 0.615}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 465.154, \"end\": 465.255, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 465.255, \"end\": 465.275, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"對\"}]}, {\"start\": 467.223, \"end\": 486.676, \"text\": \"義大利沒有義大利那個教廷這還是主要是跟教廷的這個互動你們因為單是會經過義大利嗎對一定會經過義大利對啊所以我問的是義大利有沒有反對義大利有沒有跟你們協調我們主要還是跟教廷協調之後再來跟這個義大利下去所以嘛我問了我想是包括我問了嘛義大利部分\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 467.223, \"end\": 467.423, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 467.423, \"end\": 467.543, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"沒\", 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00:01:22,474\n我們大概講就是商家尊重他的一個意願尊重對方的意願所以對方認為然後能夠有給我們好的一個安排所以對方認為說尊重他們的意願是陳建仁前總統副總統去而不是我們的賴金德總統去嗎因為呢當時2005年我們教宗這個《若望保祿二世事事》的時候是由前總統陳水扁總統到梵蒂岡參加追思彌撒的\n\n5\n00:01:27,836 --> 00:01:46,035\n那所以呢那當時都有報導說呢這次的出訪簽證到通關都讓這個義大利政府的最高得到這樣子的領域因為他也有過境的這樣子的一個狀況那我想要問說為什麼這一次那就只有層級上比過去還要來的低\n\n6\n00:01:47,379 --> 00:02:09,649\n我想應該不能夠這樣看啦層級上面齁那麼這是一個國家的象徵第二個但是它是一個宗教的一個國家齁那麼梵蒂岡所以是說...那我們有沒有提出說我們希望賴總統去還是說我們也沒有做這樣的提議我覺得這個是都是由總統來決定齁這個由誰他自己或是由這個他指派的誰來當代表這個決定權是在總統\n\n7\n00:02:12,572 --> 00:02:31,512\n所以你不確定總統有沒有提出他希望可以參加喪禮他也有可能他提出來就是不希望參加由陳建仁去就好了我相信這都是在雙方的一個好的溝通互動的協調裡面是嗎那陳建仁在擔任特使那請問他有沒有見到川普總統本人呢\n\n8\n00:02:33,276 --> 00:02:51,879\n據我們的媒體的掌握是沒有那只有跟前總統拜登合照那麼這次是否跟美國前總統合影你們認為叫做重要的外交突破那如果是的話為什麼我們在新聞稿裡面是沒有提到的\n\n9\n00:02:56,004 --> 00:03:21,752\n您說說這個我們不會把這個教宗的這個喪禮當成是一個同槌外交的場合不是我是說跟前總統拜登的這個合影那變成是說我們呢在外交上有重要的突破這跟所謂的出席這個喪禮是不一樣兩件事情不是還是就是說我們是跟這個陳前副總統代表這個出席可是你上面都有提到啦\n\n10\n00:03:22,292 --> 00:03:31,199\n我們跟巴拉圭然後其他的部長我們都有交流之意所以如果您說您看這是我們的新聞稿然後我們有哀悼之意然後教廷統計有多少人去陳特使抵達的時候引導然後跟哪一些人都有見面之外還有跟巴拉圭的眾議長\n\n11\n00:03:46,030 --> 00:03:50,131\n然後伉儷瓜地馬拉文化系體育部長等邦交國及有盟國家代表交流之意所以跟您剛剛講的是不一樣的啊您剛剛說我們因為去參加這個世事人家的喪禮所以我們不會把這個跟對方可能有其他的國家有合影啊或者是有互動啊寫出來\n\n12\n00:04:09,878 --> 00:04:34,567\n可是不對啊我們的新聞稿上面就寫了我們跟巴拉圭以及瓜地馬拉這樣子互相交流之意的部分但是我們見了這個拜登前總統卻完全沒有提到為什麼會這樣為什麼會要做這樣的決定呢沒有沒有我覺得這個事情不是這樣就是說我們是自然的互動然後我們那跟拜登總統就不自然嗎\n\n13\n00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:42,304\n很自然啊很自然嘛對啊所以自然所以我們有照片也有照片露出啊欸不是啊我就問嘛為什麼我們的新聞稿沒有發\n\n14\n00:04:44,148 --> 00:05:02,215\n的原因理由是什麼啊就是你們因為你剛剛告訴我說你們沒有發的原因在於你們沒有發的原因在於這是人家的這個告別式所以呢我們所有的這一些跟其他的友邦也都不會寫出來可是沒有啊你們新聞稿上有寫啊所以你剛剛說的並不是實話啊那所以說既然今天有跟這個這個我們拜登前總統合照那為什麼不放呢\n\n15\n00:05:14,686 --> 00:05:36,378\n我想一個照片應該說明了很多的事情是嗎那新聞稿沒有寫那又說明了什麼呢好還有2013年我們方濟哥就職的時候前總統馬英九也到了梵蒂岡觀禮在教廷人員引導之下一起見到我們的教宗然後有熱情的握手\n\n16\n00:05:36,998 --> 00:06:03,233\n那在這個就職儀式上面馬英九前總統被安排在第一排的位置那我再請問喔接下來他們正在進行改選請問賴清德總統會不會到梵蒂岡我們盡力的盡全力來跟對方協調但是那個現在教廷最重要的事情並不是來處理這個外交的疑節而是要先透過書密會議選出新的教宗\n\n17\n00:06:03,473 --> 00:06:21,333\n我当然知道啊但我问的是接下来因为前面我告诉你啊那前面呢这个是陈前总统那他呢都会去参加了这样子的一个丧礼然后呢这个呢上任新的教宗呢前马总统呢也都有去是\n\n18\n00:06:21,894 --> 00:06:45,932\n那問題是這樣子兩次的就是說如果說這個告別式的部分那我們的賴總統沒有去那人家新任的教宗上任了之後我們也沒有去會不會覺得那中間是發生了什麼樣的事情導致於說都沒有辦法參加是我們不願意去參加還是別人沒讓我們參加\n\n19\n00:06:47,509 --> 00:06:59,541\n跟委員報告這個還確認到是說其實總統他的行程的安排那麼他的這個整個總統的安排有比參加這個重要嗎他有什麼行程是賴總統是有什麼行程是比參加我們的友邦教皇的這個告別式還要來的重要的\n\n20\n00:07:06,007 --> 00:07:25,713\n我想不透我們鮑偉勇我們一定全力的爭取跟對方的協調能夠促成適當的由總統指派或是總統親自出席這個我們一定會全力的來吧對啊那你們都說全力會了那可是我們在教皇喪禮上面那就沒有看到這個賴總統嘛所以賴總統沒有去是派我們的這個副總統去陳副總統去是因為他行程太忙\n\n21\n00:07:35,595 --> 00:07:45,275\n我想這個總統沒有告訴我們他的考量是什麼我們雙方一定是有好的協調那你們好的協調那是不是請問義大利有沒有反對\n\n22\n00:07:47,223 --> 00:08:06,676\n義大利沒有義大利那個教廷這還是主要是跟教廷的這個互動你們因為單是會經過義大利嗎對一定會經過義大利對啊所以我問的是義大利有沒有反對義大利有沒有跟你們協調我們主要還是跟教廷協調之後再來跟這個義大利下去所以嘛我問了我想是包括我問了嘛義大利部分\n\n23\n00:08:07,296 --> 00:08:21,565\n有沒有反對沒有反對沒有聽說沒有聽說所以完全就是因為賴清德總統他自己有行程所以沒有參加不是我也不是這樣說我想是總統有他的來決定那麼人選為何所以總統決定不參加的\n\n24\n00:08:23,501 --> 00:08:40,366\n總統覺得是說陳前副總統跟教宗的實際的這個有個人的情誼本身又是天主教徒非常受到教廷的重視我想這是一個陳前副總統是一個尊重商家的決定但是問題是賴總統如果去的話成績更高啊\n\n25\n00:08:46,311 --> 00:09:07,188\n那當然都很好那我覺得就是說總統有他的一個想法跟他的決定那所以說未來我們如果說選出新的教宗也一樣是派陳前副總統去賴清德總統身為這個很重要的我們的歐洲的友邦結果呢他都不去參加因為他行程很忙然後他認為說這個呢這個陳前副總統那跟這個教宗跟教廷比較熟就派他去那問題是這樣子的話對我們國家的友邦\n\n26\n00:09:15,655 --> 00:09:36,824\n那如果當然我知道陳前副總統他跟梵蒂岡他是天主教的那是有好的關係但是更重要的是我們如果是賴總統去的話他的層級更高能夠代表我們中華民國去致意那是更重要而且呢更讓對方感受到這是我們友邦\n\n27\n00:09:37,424 --> 00:09:43,708\n這一定是如此的嘛所以我才會覺得說為什麼第一個我再把問題講一次那時間到了也不用特別回答就是第一個為什麼我們的賴總統是不是自己去參加而是呢請了我們陳前副總統去參加第二個我們在過程當中呢總統是怎麼樣去決策的是行程太忙還是受到什麼樣的一個打壓\n\n28\n00:10:02,398 --> 00:10:28,515\n第三個前面的包含是陳前總統就是陳水扁總統以及馬英九總統都有親自到了這個梵蒂岡那為什麼我們到現在我們的賴總統都沒有去過再來呢跟拜登拍照前總統拜登拍照為什麼我們沒有放在我們的新聞稿裡面而是放了其他的一些我們的友邦的互動最後我們也要強調的是那接下來接下來\n\n29\n00:10:30,296 --> 00:10:50,505\n如果教宗選出來之後我們要到管理的這個就職的管理那到底是賴清德總統他去或是不去那我們當然都希望賴清德總統可以爭取去而不是像這次這樣子我知道陳前副總統他跟教宗他跟這一些梵蒂岡的國家是非常親近的\n\n30\n00:10:51,505 --> 00:11:04,541\n但是他身為我們的友邦我國的元首出席那是更重要的一件事情所以我們也希望就是說呢我們能夠在接下來的這個官裡的部分因為總是會選出來嘛那還有一段時間選出來官裡的時候我們是由賴總統親自到\n\n31\n00:11:10,788 --> 00:11:34,268\n而不是說我行程很忙所以就沒辦法去就請別人因為我覺得你們比較熟我就請你去不是的梵蒂岡是我們在歐洲重要的友邦應該由我們的元首出席這才是我們中華民國對梵蒂岡最大的敬重所以我希望外交部可以有機會的話也要跟總統溝通這一點\n\n32\n00:11:37,310 --> 00:12:00,854\n不是说哎呀这个我因为你跟他们很熟就这样不是我们是元首代表中华民国到梵蒂冈跟我们的友邦致意无论是丧礼或者是官礼都是一样的所以我们希望能够外交部能够促成这样子的一个行程才能展示出我们对于梵蒂冈作为一个友邦的最高重视谢谢谢谢谢谢西小新的\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n890\t4474\t謝謝主席那我們有請這個外交部的次長委員好\n12325\t31233\t你好那對於這個教皇的離開我想大家都感到非常的難過因為呢這個梵蒂岡是我們在歐洲的唯一而且重要的友邦那我想要詢問這次教皇的喪禮為何呢我們的賴總統是沒有辦法出席的\n34331\t56003\t第一個是基於陳前副總統陳建仁是教廷的長期這邊然後他跟教宗有非常密切的關係我們跟教廷協調了之後畢竟他們是因為教宗逝世他們是主要的\n58024\t82474\t我們大概講就是商家尊重他的一個意願尊重對方的意願所以對方認為然後能夠有給我們好的一個安排所以對方認為說尊重他們的意願是陳建仁前總統副總統去而不是我們的賴金德總統去嗎因為呢當時2005年我們教宗這個《若望保祿二世事事》的時候是由前總統陳水扁總統到梵蒂岡參加追思彌撒的\n87836\t106035\t那所以呢那當時都有報導說呢這次的出訪簽證到通關都讓這個義大利政府的最高得到這樣子的領域因為他也有過境的這樣子的一個狀況那我想要問說為什麼這一次那就只有層級上比過去還要來的低\n107379\t129649\t我想應該不能夠這樣看啦 層級上面齁 那麼這是一個國家的象徵第二個 但是它是一個宗教的一個國家齁 那麼梵蒂岡 所以是說...那我們有沒有提出說我們希望賴總統去 還是說我們也沒有做這樣的提議我覺得這個是都是由總統來決定齁 這個由誰 他自己或是由這個他指派的誰來當代表 這個決定權是在總統\n132572\t151512\t所以你不確定總統有沒有提出他希望可以參加喪禮他也有可能他提出來就是不希望參加由陳建仁去就好了我相信這都是在雙方的一個好的溝通互動的協調裡面是嗎那陳建仁在擔任特使那請問他有沒有見到川普總統本人呢\n153276\t171879\t據我們的媒體的掌握是沒有那只有跟前總統拜登合照那麼這次是否跟美國前總統合影你們認為叫做重要的外交突破那如果是的話為什麼我們在新聞稿裡面是沒有提到的\n176004\t201752\t您說說這個我們不會把這個教宗的這個喪禮當成是一個同槌外交的場合不是我是說跟前總統拜登的這個合影那變成是說我們呢在外交上有重要的突破這跟所謂的出席這個喪禮是不一樣兩件事情不是還是就是說我們是跟這個陳前副總統代表這個出席可是你上面都有提到啦\n202292\t211199\t我們跟巴拉圭然後其他的部長我們都有交流之意所以如果您說您看這是我們的新聞稿然後我們有哀悼之意然後教廷統計有多少人去陳特使抵達的時候引導然後跟哪一些人都有見面之外還有跟巴拉圭的眾議長\n226030\t230131\t然後伉儷 瓜地馬拉 文化系體育部長等邦交國及有盟國家代表交流之意所以跟您剛剛講的是不一樣的啊您剛剛說我們因為去參加這個世事人家的喪禮所以我們不會把這個跟對方可能有其他的國家有合影啊或者是有互動啊寫出來\n249878\t274567\t可是不對啊我們的新聞稿上面就寫了我們跟巴拉圭以及瓜地馬拉這樣子互相交流之意的部分但是我們見了這個拜登前總統卻完全沒有提到為什麼會這樣為什麼會要做這樣的決定呢沒有沒有我覺得這個事情不是這樣就是說我們是自然的互動然後我們那跟拜登總統就不自然嗎\n275720\t282304\t很自然啊很自然嘛對啊所以自然所以我們有照片也有照片露出啊欸不是啊我就問嘛為什麼我們的新聞稿沒有發\n284148\t302215\t的原因理由是什麼啊就是你們因為你剛剛告訴我說你們沒有發的原因在於你們沒有發的原因在於這是人家的這個告別式所以呢我們所有的這一些跟其他的友邦也都不會寫出來可是沒有啊你們新聞稿上有寫啊所以你剛剛說的並不是實話啊那所以說既然今天有跟這個這個我們拜登前總統合照那為什麼不放呢\n314686\t336378\t我想一個照片應該說明了很多的事情是嗎 那新聞稿沒有寫 那又說明了什麼呢好 還有2013年我們方濟哥就職的時候前總統馬英九也到了梵蒂岡觀禮在教廷人員引導之下一起見到我們的教宗然後有熱情的握手\n336998\t363233\t那在這個就職儀式上面馬英九前總統被安排在第一排的位置那我再請問喔接下來他們正在進行改選請問賴清德總統會不會到梵蒂岡我們盡力的盡全力來跟對方協調但是那個現在教廷最重要的事情並不是來處理這個外交的疑節而是要先透過書密會議選出新的教宗\n363473\t381333\t我当然知道啊但我问的是接下来因为前面我告诉你啊那前面呢这个是陈前总统那他呢都会去参加了这样子的一个丧礼然后呢这个呢上任新的教宗呢前马总统呢也都有去是\n381894\t405932\t那問題是這樣子兩次的就是說如果說這個告別式的部分那我們的賴總統沒有去那人家新任的教宗上任了之後我們也沒有去會不會覺得那中間是發生了什麼樣的事情導致於說都沒有辦法參加是我們不願意去參加還是別人沒讓我們參加\n407509\t419541\t跟委員報告這個還確認到是說其實總統他的行程的安排那麼他的這個整個總統的安排有比參加這個重要嗎他有什麼行程是賴總統是有什麼行程是比參加我們的友邦教皇的這個告別式還要來的重要的\n426007\t445713\t我想不透我們 鮑偉勇我們一定全力的爭取跟對方的協調能夠促成適當的由總統指派或是總統親自出席這個我們一定會全力的來吧對啊 那你們都說全力會了那可是我們在教皇喪禮上面那就沒有看到這個賴總統嘛所以賴總統沒有去是派我們的這個副總統去陳副總統去是因為他行程太忙\n455595\t465275\t我想這個總統沒有告訴我們他的考量是什麼我們雙方一定是有好的協調那你們好的協調那是不是請問義大利有沒有反對\n467223\t486676\t義大利沒有義大利那個教廷這還是主要是跟教廷的這個互動你們因為單是會經過義大利嗎對一定會經過義大利對啊所以我問的是義大利有沒有反對義大利有沒有跟你們協調我們主要還是跟教廷協調之後再來跟這個義大利下去所以嘛我問了我想是包括我問了嘛義大利部分\n487296\t501565\t有沒有反對沒有反對沒有聽說沒有聽說所以完全就是因為賴清德總統他自己有行程所以沒有參加不是 我也不是這樣說我想是總統有他的來決定那麼人選為何所以總統決定不參加的\n503501\t520366\t總統覺得是說陳前副總統跟教宗的實際的這個有個人的情誼本身又是天主教徒非常受到教廷的重視我想這是一個陳前副總統是一個尊重商家的決定但是問題是賴總統如果去的話成績更高啊\n526311\t547188\t那當然都很好那我覺得就是說總統有他的一個想法跟他的決定那所以說未來我們如果說選出新的教宗也一樣是派陳前副總統去賴清德總統身為這個很重要的我們的歐洲的友邦結果呢他都不去參加因為他行程很忙然後他認為說這個呢這個陳前副總統那跟這個教宗跟教廷比較熟就派他去那問題是這樣子的話對我們國家的友邦\n555655\t576824\t那如果當然我知道陳前副總統他跟梵蒂岡他是天主教的那是有好的關係但是更重要的是我們如果是賴總統去的話他的層級更高能夠代表我們中華民國去致意那是更重要而且呢更讓對方感受到這是我們友邦\n577424\t583708\t這一定是如此的嘛所以我才會覺得說為什麼第一個我再把問題講一次那時間到了也不用特別回答就是第一個為什麼我們的賴總統是不是自己去參加而是呢請了我們陳前副總統去參加第二個我們在過程當中呢總統是怎麼樣去決策的是行程太忙還是受到什麼樣的一個打壓\n602398\t628515\t第三個前面的包含是陳前總統就是陳水扁總統以及馬英九總統都有親自到了這個梵蒂岡那為什麼我們到現在我們的賴總統都沒有去過再來呢跟拜登拍照前總統拜登拍照為什麼我們沒有放在我們的新聞稿裡面而是放了其他的一些我們的友邦的互動最後我們也要強調的是那接下來接下來\n630296\t650505\t如果教宗選出來之後我們要到管理的這個就職的管理那到底是賴清德總統他去或是不去那我們當然都希望賴清德總統可以爭取去而不是像這次這樣子我知道陳前副總統他跟教宗他跟這一些梵蒂岡的國家是非常親近的\n651505\t664541\t但是他身為我們的友邦我國的元首出席那是更重要的一件事情所以我們也希望就是說呢我們能夠在接下來的這個官裡的部分因為總是會選出來嘛那還有一段時間選出來官裡的時候我們是由賴總統親自到\n670788\t694268\t而不是說我行程很忙所以就沒辦法去就請別人因為我覺得你們比較熟我就請你去不是的梵蒂岡是我們在歐洲重要的友邦應該由我們的元首出席這才是我們中華民國對梵蒂岡最大的敬重所以我希望外交部可以有機會的話也要跟總統溝通這一點\n697310\t720854\t不是说哎呀这个我因为你跟他们很熟就这样不是我们是元首代表中华民国到梵蒂冈跟我们的友邦致意无论是丧礼或者是官礼都是一样的所以我们希望能够外交部能够促成这样子的一个行程才能展示出我们对于梵蒂冈作为一个友邦的最高重视谢谢谢谢谢谢西小新的\n","txt":"謝謝主席那我們有請這個外交部的次長委員好\n你好那對於這個教皇的離開我想大家都感到非常的難過因為呢這個梵蒂岡是我們在歐洲的唯一而且重要的友邦那我想要詢問這次教皇的喪禮為何呢我們的賴總統是沒有辦法出席的\n第一個是基於陳前副總統陳建仁是教廷的長期這邊然後他跟教宗有非常密切的關係我們跟教廷協調了之後畢竟他們是因為教宗逝世他們是主要的\n我們大概講就是商家尊重他的一個意願尊重對方的意願所以對方認為然後能夠有給我們好的一個安排所以對方認為說尊重他們的意願是陳建仁前總統副總統去而不是我們的賴金德總統去嗎因為呢當時2005年我們教宗這個《若望保祿二世事事》的時候是由前總統陳水扁總統到梵蒂岡參加追思彌撒的\n那所以呢那當時都有報導說呢這次的出訪簽證到通關都讓這個義大利政府的最高得到這樣子的領域因為他也有過境的這樣子的一個狀況那我想要問說為什麼這一次那就只有層級上比過去還要來的低\n我想應該不能夠這樣看啦 層級上面齁 那麼這是一個國家的象徵第二個 但是它是一個宗教的一個國家齁 那麼梵蒂岡 所以是說...那我們有沒有提出說我們希望賴總統去 還是說我們也沒有做這樣的提議我覺得這個是都是由總統來決定齁 這個由誰 他自己或是由這個他指派的誰來當代表 這個決定權是在總統\n所以你不確定總統有沒有提出他希望可以參加喪禮他也有可能他提出來就是不希望參加由陳建仁去就好了我相信這都是在雙方的一個好的溝通互動的協調裡面是嗎那陳建仁在擔任特使那請問他有沒有見到川普總統本人呢\n據我們的媒體的掌握是沒有那只有跟前總統拜登合照那麼這次是否跟美國前總統合影你們認為叫做重要的外交突破那如果是的話為什麼我們在新聞稿裡面是沒有提到的\n您說說這個我們不會把這個教宗的這個喪禮當成是一個同槌外交的場合不是我是說跟前總統拜登的這個合影那變成是說我們呢在外交上有重要的突破這跟所謂的出席這個喪禮是不一樣兩件事情不是還是就是說我們是跟這個陳前副總統代表這個出席可是你上面都有提到啦\n我們跟巴拉圭然後其他的部長我們都有交流之意所以如果您說您看這是我們的新聞稿然後我們有哀悼之意然後教廷統計有多少人去陳特使抵達的時候引導然後跟哪一些人都有見面之外還有跟巴拉圭的眾議長\n然後伉儷 瓜地馬拉 文化系體育部長等邦交國及有盟國家代表交流之意所以跟您剛剛講的是不一樣的啊您剛剛說我們因為去參加這個世事人家的喪禮所以我們不會把這個跟對方可能有其他的國家有合影啊或者是有互動啊寫出來\n可是不對啊我們的新聞稿上面就寫了我們跟巴拉圭以及瓜地馬拉這樣子互相交流之意的部分但是我們見了這個拜登前總統卻完全沒有提到為什麼會這樣為什麼會要做這樣的決定呢沒有沒有我覺得這個事情不是這樣就是說我們是自然的互動然後我們那跟拜登總統就不自然嗎\n很自然啊很自然嘛對啊所以自然所以我們有照片也有照片露出啊欸不是啊我就問嘛為什麼我們的新聞稿沒有發\n的原因理由是什麼啊就是你們因為你剛剛告訴我說你們沒有發的原因在於你們沒有發的原因在於這是人家的這個告別式所以呢我們所有的這一些跟其他的友邦也都不會寫出來可是沒有啊你們新聞稿上有寫啊所以你剛剛說的並不是實話啊那所以說既然今天有跟這個這個我們拜登前總統合照那為什麼不放呢\n我想一個照片應該說明了很多的事情是嗎 那新聞稿沒有寫 那又說明了什麼呢好 還有2013年我們方濟哥就職的時候前總統馬英九也到了梵蒂岡觀禮在教廷人員引導之下一起見到我們的教宗然後有熱情的握手\n那在這個就職儀式上面馬英九前總統被安排在第一排的位置那我再請問喔接下來他們正在進行改選請問賴清德總統會不會到梵蒂岡我們盡力的盡全力來跟對方協調但是那個現在教廷最重要的事情並不是來處理這個外交的疑節而是要先透過書密會議選出新的教宗\n我当然知道啊但我问的是接下来因为前面我告诉你啊那前面呢这个是陈前总统那他呢都会去参加了这样子的一个丧礼然后呢这个呢上任新的教宗呢前马总统呢也都有去是\n那問題是這樣子兩次的就是說如果說這個告別式的部分那我們的賴總統沒有去那人家新任的教宗上任了之後我們也沒有去會不會覺得那中間是發生了什麼樣的事情導致於說都沒有辦法參加是我們不願意去參加還是別人沒讓我們參加\n跟委員報告這個還確認到是說其實總統他的行程的安排那麼他的這個整個總統的安排有比參加這個重要嗎他有什麼行程是賴總統是有什麼行程是比參加我們的友邦教皇的這個告別式還要來的重要的\n我想不透我們 鮑偉勇我們一定全力的爭取跟對方的協調能夠促成適當的由總統指派或是總統親自出席這個我們一定會全力的來吧對啊 那你們都說全力會了那可是我們在教皇喪禮上面那就沒有看到這個賴總統嘛所以賴總統沒有去是派我們的這個副總統去陳副總統去是因為他行程太忙\n我想這個總統沒有告訴我們他的考量是什麼我們雙方一定是有好的協調那你們好的協調那是不是請問義大利有沒有反對\n義大利沒有義大利那個教廷這還是主要是跟教廷的這個互動你們因為單是會經過義大利嗎對一定會經過義大利對啊所以我問的是義大利有沒有反對義大利有沒有跟你們協調我們主要還是跟教廷協調之後再來跟這個義大利下去所以嘛我問了我想是包括我問了嘛義大利部分\n有沒有反對沒有反對沒有聽說沒有聽說所以完全就是因為賴清德總統他自己有行程所以沒有參加不是 我也不是這樣說我想是總統有他的來決定那麼人選為何所以總統決定不參加的\n總統覺得是說陳前副總統跟教宗的實際的這個有個人的情誼本身又是天主教徒非常受到教廷的重視我想這是一個陳前副總統是一個尊重商家的決定但是問題是賴總統如果去的話成績更高啊\n那當然都很好那我覺得就是說總統有他的一個想法跟他的決定那所以說未來我們如果說選出新的教宗也一樣是派陳前副總統去賴清德總統身為這個很重要的我們的歐洲的友邦結果呢他都不去參加因為他行程很忙然後他認為說這個呢這個陳前副總統那跟這個教宗跟教廷比較熟就派他去那問題是這樣子的話對我們國家的友邦\n那如果當然我知道陳前副總統他跟梵蒂岡他是天主教的那是有好的關係但是更重要的是我們如果是賴總統去的話他的層級更高能夠代表我們中華民國去致意那是更重要而且呢更讓對方感受到這是我們友邦\n這一定是如此的嘛所以我才會覺得說為什麼第一個我再把問題講一次那時間到了也不用特別回答就是第一個為什麼我們的賴總統是不是自己去參加而是呢請了我們陳前副總統去參加第二個我們在過程當中呢總統是怎麼樣去決策的是行程太忙還是受到什麼樣的一個打壓\n第三個前面的包含是陳前總統就是陳水扁總統以及馬英九總統都有親自到了這個梵蒂岡那為什麼我們到現在我們的賴總統都沒有去過再來呢跟拜登拍照前總統拜登拍照為什麼我們沒有放在我們的新聞稿裡面而是放了其他的一些我們的友邦的互動最後我們也要強調的是那接下來接下來\n如果教宗選出來之後我們要到管理的這個就職的管理那到底是賴清德總統他去或是不去那我們當然都希望賴清德總統可以爭取去而不是像這次這樣子我知道陳前副總統他跟教宗他跟這一些梵蒂岡的國家是非常親近的\n但是他身為我們的友邦我國的元首出席那是更重要的一件事情所以我們也希望就是說呢我們能夠在接下來的這個官裡的部分因為總是會選出來嘛那還有一段時間選出來官裡的時候我們是由賴總統親自到\n而不是說我行程很忙所以就沒辦法去就請別人因為我覺得你們比較熟我就請你去不是的梵蒂岡是我們在歐洲重要的友邦應該由我們的元首出席這才是我們中華民國對梵蒂岡最大的敬重所以我希望外交部可以有機會的話也要跟總統溝通這一點\n不是说哎呀这个我因为你跟他们很熟就这样不是我们是元首代表中华民国到梵蒂冈跟我们的友邦致意无论是丧礼或者是官礼都是一样的所以我们希望能够外交部能够促成这样子的一个行程才能展示出我们对于梵蒂冈作为一个友邦的最高重视谢谢谢谢谢谢西小新的\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.890 --> 00:04.474\n謝謝主席那我們有請這個外交部的次長委員好\n\n00:12.325 --> 00:31.233\n你好那對於這個教皇的離開我想大家都感到非常的難過因為呢這個梵蒂岡是我們在歐洲的唯一而且重要的友邦那我想要詢問這次教皇的喪禮為何呢我們的賴總統是沒有辦法出席的\n\n00:34.331 --> 00:56.003\n第一個是基於陳前副總統陳建仁是教廷的長期這邊然後他跟教宗有非常密切的關係我們跟教廷協調了之後畢竟他們是因為教宗逝世他們是主要的\n\n00:58.024 --> 01:22.474\n我們大概講就是商家尊重他的一個意願尊重對方的意願所以對方認為然後能夠有給我們好的一個安排所以對方認為說尊重他們的意願是陳建仁前總統副總統去而不是我們的賴金德總統去嗎因為呢當時2005年我們教宗這個《若望保祿二世事事》的時候是由前總統陳水扁總統到梵蒂岡參加追思彌撒的\n\n01:27.836 --> 01:46.035\n那所以呢那當時都有報導說呢這次的出訪簽證到通關都讓這個義大利政府的最高得到這樣子的領域因為他也有過境的這樣子的一個狀況那我想要問說為什麼這一次那就只有層級上比過去還要來的低\n\n01:47.379 --> 02:09.649\n我想應該不能夠這樣看啦層級上面齁那麼這是一個國家的象徵第二個但是它是一個宗教的一個國家齁那麼梵蒂岡所以是說...那我們有沒有提出說我們希望賴總統去還是說我們也沒有做這樣的提議我覺得這個是都是由總統來決定齁這個由誰他自己或是由這個他指派的誰來當代表這個決定權是在總統\n\n02:12.572 --> 02:31.512\n所以你不確定總統有沒有提出他希望可以參加喪禮他也有可能他提出來就是不希望參加由陳建仁去就好了我相信這都是在雙方的一個好的溝通互動的協調裡面是嗎那陳建仁在擔任特使那請問他有沒有見到川普總統本人呢\n\n02:33.276 --> 02:51.879\n據我們的媒體的掌握是沒有那只有跟前總統拜登合照那麼這次是否跟美國前總統合影你們認為叫做重要的外交突破那如果是的話為什麼我們在新聞稿裡面是沒有提到的\n\n02:56.004 --> 03:21.752\n您說說這個我們不會把這個教宗的這個喪禮當成是一個同槌外交的場合不是我是說跟前總統拜登的這個合影那變成是說我們呢在外交上有重要的突破這跟所謂的出席這個喪禮是不一樣兩件事情不是還是就是說我們是跟這個陳前副總統代表這個出席可是你上面都有提到啦\n\n03:22.292 --> 03:31.199\n我們跟巴拉圭然後其他的部長我們都有交流之意所以如果您說您看這是我們的新聞稿然後我們有哀悼之意然後教廷統計有多少人去陳特使抵達的時候引導然後跟哪一些人都有見面之外還有跟巴拉圭的眾議長\n\n03:46.030 --> 03:50.131\n然後伉儷瓜地馬拉文化系體育部長等邦交國及有盟國家代表交流之意所以跟您剛剛講的是不一樣的啊您剛剛說我們因為去參加這個世事人家的喪禮所以我們不會把這個跟對方可能有其他的國家有合影啊或者是有互動啊寫出來\n\n04:09.878 --> 04:34.567\n可是不對啊我們的新聞稿上面就寫了我們跟巴拉圭以及瓜地馬拉這樣子互相交流之意的部分但是我們見了這個拜登前總統卻完全沒有提到為什麼會這樣為什麼會要做這樣的決定呢沒有沒有我覺得這個事情不是這樣就是說我們是自然的互動然後我們那跟拜登總統就不自然嗎\n\n04:35.720 --> 04:42.304\n很自然啊很自然嘛對啊所以自然所以我們有照片也有照片露出啊欸不是啊我就問嘛為什麼我們的新聞稿沒有發\n\n04:44.148 --> 05:02.215\n的原因理由是什麼啊就是你們因為你剛剛告訴我說你們沒有發的原因在於你們沒有發的原因在於這是人家的這個告別式所以呢我們所有的這一些跟其他的友邦也都不會寫出來可是沒有啊你們新聞稿上有寫啊所以你剛剛說的並不是實話啊那所以說既然今天有跟這個這個我們拜登前總統合照那為什麼不放呢\n\n05:14.686 --> 05:36.378\n我想一個照片應該說明了很多的事情是嗎那新聞稿沒有寫那又說明了什麼呢好還有2013年我們方濟哥就職的時候前總統馬英九也到了梵蒂岡觀禮在教廷人員引導之下一起見到我們的教宗然後有熱情的握手\n\n05:36.998 --> 06:03.233\n那在這個就職儀式上面馬英九前總統被安排在第一排的位置那我再請問喔接下來他們正在進行改選請問賴清德總統會不會到梵蒂岡我們盡力的盡全力來跟對方協調但是那個現在教廷最重要的事情並不是來處理這個外交的疑節而是要先透過書密會議選出新的教宗\n\n06:03.473 --> 06:21.333\n我当然知道啊但我问的是接下来因为前面我告诉你啊那前面呢这个是陈前总统那他呢都会去参加了这样子的一个丧礼然后呢这个呢上任新的教宗呢前马总统呢也都有去是\n\n06:21.894 --> 06:45.932\n那問題是這樣子兩次的就是說如果說這個告別式的部分那我們的賴總統沒有去那人家新任的教宗上任了之後我們也沒有去會不會覺得那中間是發生了什麼樣的事情導致於說都沒有辦法參加是我們不願意去參加還是別人沒讓我們參加\n\n06:47.509 --> 06:59.541\n跟委員報告這個還確認到是說其實總統他的行程的安排那麼他的這個整個總統的安排有比參加這個重要嗎他有什麼行程是賴總統是有什麼行程是比參加我們的友邦教皇的這個告別式還要來的重要的\n\n07:06.007 --> 07:25.713\n我想不透我們鮑偉勇我們一定全力的爭取跟對方的協調能夠促成適當的由總統指派或是總統親自出席這個我們一定會全力的來吧對啊那你們都說全力會了那可是我們在教皇喪禮上面那就沒有看到這個賴總統嘛所以賴總統沒有去是派我們的這個副總統去陳副總統去是因為他行程太忙\n\n07:35.595 --> 07:45.275\n我想這個總統沒有告訴我們他的考量是什麼我們雙方一定是有好的協調那你們好的協調那是不是請問義大利有沒有反對\n\n07:47.223 --> 08:06.676\n義大利沒有義大利那個教廷這還是主要是跟教廷的這個互動你們因為單是會經過義大利嗎對一定會經過義大利對啊所以我問的是義大利有沒有反對義大利有沒有跟你們協調我們主要還是跟教廷協調之後再來跟這個義大利下去所以嘛我問了我想是包括我問了嘛義大利部分\n\n08:07.296 --> 08:21.565\n有沒有反對沒有反對沒有聽說沒有聽說所以完全就是因為賴清德總統他自己有行程所以沒有參加不是我也不是這樣說我想是總統有他的來決定那麼人選為何所以總統決定不參加的\n\n08:23.501 --> 08:40.366\n總統覺得是說陳前副總統跟教宗的實際的這個有個人的情誼本身又是天主教徒非常受到教廷的重視我想這是一個陳前副總統是一個尊重商家的決定但是問題是賴總統如果去的話成績更高啊\n\n08:46.311 --> 09:07.188\n那當然都很好那我覺得就是說總統有他的一個想法跟他的決定那所以說未來我們如果說選出新的教宗也一樣是派陳前副總統去賴清德總統身為這個很重要的我們的歐洲的友邦結果呢他都不去參加因為他行程很忙然後他認為說這個呢這個陳前副總統那跟這個教宗跟教廷比較熟就派他去那問題是這樣子的話對我們國家的友邦\n\n09:15.655 --> 09:36.824\n那如果當然我知道陳前副總統他跟梵蒂岡他是天主教的那是有好的關係但是更重要的是我們如果是賴總統去的話他的層級更高能夠代表我們中華民國去致意那是更重要而且呢更讓對方感受到這是我們友邦\n\n09:37.424 --> 09:43.708\n這一定是如此的嘛所以我才會覺得說為什麼第一個我再把問題講一次那時間到了也不用特別回答就是第一個為什麼我們的賴總統是不是自己去參加而是呢請了我們陳前副總統去參加第二個我們在過程當中呢總統是怎麼樣去決策的是行程太忙還是受到什麼樣的一個打壓\n\n10:02.398 --> 10:28.515\n第三個前面的包含是陳前總統就是陳水扁總統以及馬英九總統都有親自到了這個梵蒂岡那為什麼我們到現在我們的賴總統都沒有去過再來呢跟拜登拍照前總統拜登拍照為什麼我們沒有放在我們的新聞稿裡面而是放了其他的一些我們的友邦的互動最後我們也要強調的是那接下來接下來\n\n10:30.296 --> 10:50.505\n如果教宗選出來之後我們要到管理的這個就職的管理那到底是賴清德總統他去或是不去那我們當然都希望賴清德總統可以爭取去而不是像這次這樣子我知道陳前副總統他跟教宗他跟這一些梵蒂岡的國家是非常親近的\n\n10:51.505 --> 11:04.541\n但是他身為我們的友邦我國的元首出席那是更重要的一件事情所以我們也希望就是說呢我們能夠在接下來的這個官裡的部分因為總是會選出來嘛那還有一段時間選出來官裡的時候我們是由賴總統親自到\n\n11:10.788 --> 11:34.268\n而不是說我行程很忙所以就沒辦法去就請別人因為我覺得你們比較熟我就請你去不是的梵蒂岡是我們在歐洲重要的友邦應該由我們的元首出席這才是我們中華民國對梵蒂岡最大的敬重所以我希望外交部可以有機會的話也要跟總統溝通這一點\n\n11:37.310 --> 12:00.854\n不是说哎呀这个我因为你跟他们很熟就这样不是我们是元首代表中华民国到梵蒂冈跟我们的友邦致意无论是丧礼或者是官礼都是一样的所以我们希望能够外交部能够促成这样子的一个行程才能展示出我们对于梵蒂冈作为一个友邦的最高重视谢谢谢谢谢谢西小新的\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.89,"end":4.474,"text":"謝謝主席那我們有請這個外交部的次長委員好"},{"start":12.325,"end":31.233,"text":"你好那對於這個教皇的離開我想大家都感到非常的難過因為呢這個梵蒂岡是我們在歐洲的唯一而且重要的友邦那我想要詢問這次教皇的喪禮為何呢我們的賴總統是沒有辦法出席的"},{"start":34.331,"end":56.003,"text":"第一個是基於陳前副總統陳建仁是教廷的長期這邊然後他跟教宗有非常密切的關係我們跟教廷協調了之後畢竟他們是因為教宗逝世他們是主要的"},{"start":58.024,"end":82.474,"text":"我們大概講就是商家尊重他的一個意願尊重對方的意願所以對方認為然後能夠有給我們好的一個安排所以對方認為說尊重他們的意願是陳建仁前總統副總統去而不是我們的賴金德總統去嗎因為呢當時2005年我們教宗這個《若望保祿二世事事》的時候是由前總統陳水扁總統到梵蒂岡參加追思彌撒的"},{"start":87.836,"end":106.035,"text":"那所以呢那當時都有報導說呢這次的出訪簽證到通關都讓這個義大利政府的最高得到這樣子的領域因為他也有過境的這樣子的一個狀況那我想要問說為什麼這一次那就只有層級上比過去還要來的低"},{"start":107.379,"end":129.649,"text":"我想應該不能夠這樣看啦 層級上面齁 那麼這是一個國家的象徵第二個 但是它是一個宗教的一個國家齁 那麼梵蒂岡 所以是說...那我們有沒有提出說我們希望賴總統去 還是說我們也沒有做這樣的提議我覺得這個是都是由總統來決定齁 這個由誰 他自己或是由這個他指派的誰來當代表 這個決定權是在總統"},{"start":132.572,"end":151.512,"text":"所以你不確定總統有沒有提出他希望可以參加喪禮他也有可能他提出來就是不希望參加由陳建仁去就好了我相信這都是在雙方的一個好的溝通互動的協調裡面是嗎那陳建仁在擔任特使那請問他有沒有見到川普總統本人呢"},{"start":153.276,"end":171.879,"text":"據我們的媒體的掌握是沒有那只有跟前總統拜登合照那麼這次是否跟美國前總統合影你們認為叫做重要的外交突破那如果是的話為什麼我們在新聞稿裡面是沒有提到的"},{"start":176.004,"end":201.752,"text":"您說說這個我們不會把這個教宗的這個喪禮當成是一個同槌外交的場合不是我是說跟前總統拜登的這個合影那變成是說我們呢在外交上有重要的突破這跟所謂的出席這個喪禮是不一樣兩件事情不是還是就是說我們是跟這個陳前副總統代表這個出席可是你上面都有提到啦"},{"start":202.292,"end":211.199,"text":"我們跟巴拉圭然後其他的部長我們都有交流之意所以如果您說您看這是我們的新聞稿然後我們有哀悼之意然後教廷統計有多少人去陳特使抵達的時候引導然後跟哪一些人都有見面之外還有跟巴拉圭的眾議長"},{"start":226.03,"end":230.131,"text":"然後伉儷 瓜地馬拉 文化系體育部長等邦交國及有盟國家代表交流之意所以跟您剛剛講的是不一樣的啊您剛剛說我們因為去參加這個世事人家的喪禮所以我們不會把這個跟對方可能有其他的國家有合影啊或者是有互動啊寫出來"},{"start":249.878,"end":274.567,"text":"可是不對啊我們的新聞稿上面就寫了我們跟巴拉圭以及瓜地馬拉這樣子互相交流之意的部分但是我們見了這個拜登前總統卻完全沒有提到為什麼會這樣為什麼會要做這樣的決定呢沒有沒有我覺得這個事情不是這樣就是說我們是自然的互動然後我們那跟拜登總統就不自然嗎"},{"start":275.72,"end":282.304,"text":"很自然啊很自然嘛對啊所以自然所以我們有照片也有照片露出啊欸不是啊我就問嘛為什麼我們的新聞稿沒有發"},{"start":284.148,"end":302.215,"text":"的原因理由是什麼啊就是你們因為你剛剛告訴我說你們沒有發的原因在於你們沒有發的原因在於這是人家的這個告別式所以呢我們所有的這一些跟其他的友邦也都不會寫出來可是沒有啊你們新聞稿上有寫啊所以你剛剛說的並不是實話啊那所以說既然今天有跟這個這個我們拜登前總統合照那為什麼不放呢"},{"start":314.686,"end":336.378,"text":"我想一個照片應該說明了很多的事情是嗎 那新聞稿沒有寫 那又說明了什麼呢好 還有2013年我們方濟哥就職的時候前總統馬英九也到了梵蒂岡觀禮在教廷人員引導之下一起見到我們的教宗然後有熱情的握手"},{"start":336.998,"end":363.233,"text":"那在這個就職儀式上面馬英九前總統被安排在第一排的位置那我再請問喔接下來他們正在進行改選請問賴清德總統會不會到梵蒂岡我們盡力的盡全力來跟對方協調但是那個現在教廷最重要的事情並不是來處理這個外交的疑節而是要先透過書密會議選出新的教宗"},{"start":363.473,"end":381.333,"text":"我当然知道啊但我问的是接下来因为前面我告诉你啊那前面呢这个是陈前总统那他呢都会去参加了这样子的一个丧礼然后呢这个呢上任新的教宗呢前马总统呢也都有去是"},{"start":381.894,"end":405.932,"text":"那問題是這樣子兩次的就是說如果說這個告別式的部分那我們的賴總統沒有去那人家新任的教宗上任了之後我們也沒有去會不會覺得那中間是發生了什麼樣的事情導致於說都沒有辦法參加是我們不願意去參加還是別人沒讓我們參加"},{"start":407.509,"end":419.541,"text":"跟委員報告這個還確認到是說其實總統他的行程的安排那麼他的這個整個總統的安排有比參加這個重要嗎他有什麼行程是賴總統是有什麼行程是比參加我們的友邦教皇的這個告別式還要來的重要的"},{"start":426.007,"end":445.713,"text":"我想不透我們 鮑偉勇我們一定全力的爭取跟對方的協調能夠促成適當的由總統指派或是總統親自出席這個我們一定會全力的來吧對啊 那你們都說全力會了那可是我們在教皇喪禮上面那就沒有看到這個賴總統嘛所以賴總統沒有去是派我們的這個副總統去陳副總統去是因為他行程太忙"},{"start":455.595,"end":465.275,"text":"我想這個總統沒有告訴我們他的考量是什麼我們雙方一定是有好的協調那你們好的協調那是不是請問義大利有沒有反對"},{"start":467.223,"end":486.676,"text":"義大利沒有義大利那個教廷這還是主要是跟教廷的這個互動你們因為單是會經過義大利嗎對一定會經過義大利對啊所以我問的是義大利有沒有反對義大利有沒有跟你們協調我們主要還是跟教廷協調之後再來跟這個義大利下去所以嘛我問了我想是包括我問了嘛義大利部分"},{"start":487.296,"end":501.565,"text":"有沒有反對沒有反對沒有聽說沒有聽說所以完全就是因為賴清德總統他自己有行程所以沒有參加不是 我也不是這樣說我想是總統有他的來決定那麼人選為何所以總統決定不參加的"},{"start":503.501,"end":520.366,"text":"總統覺得是說陳前副總統跟教宗的實際的這個有個人的情誼本身又是天主教徒非常受到教廷的重視我想這是一個陳前副總統是一個尊重商家的決定但是問題是賴總統如果去的話成績更高啊"},{"start":526.311,"end":547.188,"text":"那當然都很好那我覺得就是說總統有他的一個想法跟他的決定那所以說未來我們如果說選出新的教宗也一樣是派陳前副總統去賴清德總統身為這個很重要的我們的歐洲的友邦結果呢他都不去參加因為他行程很忙然後他認為說這個呢這個陳前副總統那跟這個教宗跟教廷比較熟就派他去那問題是這樣子的話對我們國家的友邦"},{"start":555.655,"end":576.824,"text":"那如果當然我知道陳前副總統他跟梵蒂岡他是天主教的那是有好的關係但是更重要的是我們如果是賴總統去的話他的層級更高能夠代表我們中華民國去致意那是更重要而且呢更讓對方感受到這是我們友邦"},{"start":577.424,"end":583.708,"text":"這一定是如此的嘛所以我才會覺得說為什麼第一個我再把問題講一次那時間到了也不用特別回答就是第一個為什麼我們的賴總統是不是自己去參加而是呢請了我們陳前副總統去參加第二個我們在過程當中呢總統是怎麼樣去決策的是行程太忙還是受到什麼樣的一個打壓"},{"start":602.398,"end":628.515,"text":"第三個前面的包含是陳前總統就是陳水扁總統以及馬英九總統都有親自到了這個梵蒂岡那為什麼我們到現在我們的賴總統都沒有去過再來呢跟拜登拍照前總統拜登拍照為什麼我們沒有放在我們的新聞稿裡面而是放了其他的一些我們的友邦的互動最後我們也要強調的是那接下來接下來"},{"start":630.296,"end":650.505,"text":"如果教宗選出來之後我們要到管理的這個就職的管理那到底是賴清德總統他去或是不去那我們當然都希望賴清德總統可以爭取去而不是像這次這樣子我知道陳前副總統他跟教宗他跟這一些梵蒂岡的國家是非常親近的"},{"start":651.505,"end":664.541,"text":"但是他身為我們的友邦我國的元首出席那是更重要的一件事情所以我們也希望就是說呢我們能夠在接下來的這個官裡的部分因為總是會選出來嘛那還有一段時間選出來官裡的時候我們是由賴總統親自到"},{"start":670.788,"end":694.268,"text":"而不是說我行程很忙所以就沒辦法去就請別人因為我覺得你們比較熟我就請你去不是的梵蒂岡是我們在歐洲重要的友邦應該由我們的元首出席這才是我們中華民國對梵蒂岡最大的敬重所以我希望外交部可以有機會的話也要跟總統溝通這一點"},{"start":697.31,"end":720.854,"text":"不是说哎呀这个我因为你跟他们很熟就这样不是我们是元首代表中华民国到梵蒂冈跟我们的友邦致意无论是丧礼或者是官礼都是一样的所以我们希望能够外交部能够促成这样子的一个行程才能展示出我们对于梵蒂冈作为一个友邦的最高重视谢谢谢谢谢谢西小新的"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":301,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（10時）謝謝主席，有請外交部次長。"],["陳次長明祺：委員好。"],["徐委員巧芯：你好。對於教皇的離開，我想大家都感到非常難過，因為梵蒂岡是我們在歐洲唯一而且重要的友邦。"],["陳次長明祺：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：我想要詢問這次教皇的喪禮為何賴總統沒有辦法出席？"],["陳次長明祺：第一個是基於陳建仁前副總統是教廷長期的朋友，他跟教宗有非常密切的關係，我們跟教廷協調了之後，因為教宗逝世，他們是主要我們所說的喪家……"],["徐委員巧芯：是，我懂。"],["陳次長明祺：尊重他的一個……"],["徐委員巧芯：尊重對方的意願，所以對方認為……"],["陳次長明祺：然後能夠給我們好的安排。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以對方認為尊重他們的意願是陳建仁前總統……"],["陳次長明祺：副總統。"],["徐委員巧芯：前副總統去而不是賴清德總統去嗎？因為當時、2005年，教宗若望保祿二世逝世的時候，是由陳水扁前總統到梵蒂岡參加追思彌撒的，當時都有報導那次的出訪，從簽證到通關都有得到義大利政府最高的禮遇，因為也有過境義大利的狀況。我想要問，為什麼這次層級上比過去還要來得低？"],["陳次長明祺：我想應該不能夠用層級這樣看，這是一個國家的象徵。第二個，梵蒂岡是一個宗教的國家，所以……"],["徐委員巧芯：那我們有沒有提出希望賴總統去？還是也沒有做這樣的提議？"],["陳次長明祺：我覺得這個都是由總統來決定，無論是他自己或是由他指派誰來當代表，這個決定權是在總統。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以你不確定總統有沒有提出希望可以參加喪禮，他也有可能提出來就是不希望參加，由陳建仁去就好了。"],["陳次長明祺：我相信這都是在雙方好的溝通、互動的協調裡面。"],["徐委員巧芯：是嗎？"],["陳次長明祺：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：陳建仁擔任特使，請問他有沒有見到川普總統本人呢？"],["陳次長明祺：據媒體的掌握是沒有。"],["徐委員巧芯：沒有？"],["陳次長明祺：對。"],["徐委員巧芯：只有跟前總統拜登合照？"],["陳次長明祺：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：這次跟美國前總統合影，你們是否認為叫做重要的外交突破？如果是的話，為什麼在新聞稿裡面沒有提到？"],["陳次長明祺：我們不會把教宗的喪禮當成是一個純粹外交的場合。"],["徐委員巧芯：不是，我是說跟前總統拜登的合影，是我們在外交上有重要的突破，這跟所謂的出席喪禮是不一樣的兩件事情。"],["陳次長明祺：陳前副總統代表總統出席之後……"],["徐委員巧芯：可是你上面都有提到啊！我們跟巴拉圭、其他的部長都有交流、致意。你看你們的新聞稿，被有哀悼之意，教廷統計有多少人去，陳特使抵達的時候引導，跟哪一些人都有見面之外，還有跟巴拉圭的眾議長伉儷、瓜拉馬……"],["陳次長明祺：瓜地馬拉。"],["徐委員巧芯：對不起！瓜地馬拉文化暨體育部長、邦交國及友盟國家代表交流致意，所以跟您剛剛講的不一樣。您剛剛說，因為是參加人家的喪禮，所以我們不會把跟其他國家合影或是有互動寫出來，可是不對！你們的新聞稿上面就寫了跟巴拉圭以及瓜地馬拉互相交流、致意，而見了拜登前總統，卻完全沒有提到，為什麼要做這樣的決定呢？"],["陳次長明祺：沒有，我覺得這個事情不是這樣，我們是自然的互動，然後我們……"],["徐委員巧芯：那跟拜登總統就不自然嗎？"],["陳次長明祺：很自然啊！"],["徐委員巧芯：很自然，對啊，所以自然互動……"],["陳次長明祺：所以我們也有照片露出。"],["徐委員巧芯：不是，我就問為什麼你們的新聞稿沒有發？原因、理由是什麼？"],["陳次長明祺：沒有特別的理由。"],["徐委員巧芯：因為你剛剛告訴我說，你們沒有發的原因在於這是人家的告別式，所以所有跟其他的友邦互動也都不會寫出來，可是沒有啊！你們的新聞稿上有寫，所以你剛剛說的並不是實話。既然有跟拜登前總統合照，那為什麼不放呢？"],["陳次長明祺：我想一張照片應該說明了很多的事情。"],["徐委員巧芯：是嗎？那新聞稿沒有寫，那又說明了什麼呢？還有2013年方濟各就職的時候，前總統馬英九也到了梵蒂岡觀禮，在教廷人員引導之下，見到教宗有熱情的握手，在這個就職儀式上面，馬英九前總統被安排在第一排的位置。我再請問，接下來他們正在進行改選，請問賴清德總統會不會到梵蒂岡？"],["陳次長明祺：我們盡全力來跟對方協調，但是現在教廷最重要的事情，並不是來處理外交的儀節，而是要先透過樞密會議選出新的教宗。"],["徐委員巧芯：我當然知道，但我問的是接下來。我告訴過你，因為陳前總統都會去參加這樣的喪禮，然後新的教宗上任，馬前總統也都有去。"],["陳次長明祺：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：問題是如果告別式，賴總統沒有去，新任的教宗上任了之後，也沒有去，會不會覺得中間是發生了什麼事情，導致都沒有辦法參加？是我們不願意參加，還是別人不讓我們參加？"],["陳次長明祺：跟委員報告，這個還牽涉到總統行程的安排，整個總體的跟對方……"],["徐委員巧芯：行程的安排有比參加這個重要嗎？"],["陳次長明祺：當然，我們把它當成最重要的。"],["徐委員巧芯：賴總統有什麼行程是比參加友邦教皇的告別式還要來得重要？我想不透。"],["陳次長明祺：報告委員，我們一定全力爭取，也跟對方協調能夠促成適當的安排，由總統指派或是總統親自出席，這個我們一定會全力的來……"],["徐委員巧芯：對啊，那你們都說會盡全力了。可是我們在教皇喪禮上面就沒有看到賴總統，所以賴總統沒有去，是派我們的副總統去。"],["陳次長明祺：陳前副總統。"],["徐委員巧芯：派陳前副總統去，是因為他行程太忙？"],["陳次長明祺：我想總統沒有告訴我們他的考量是什麼，但我們雙方一定是有好的協調。"],["徐委員巧芯：你們好的協調，請問義大利有沒有反對？"],["陳次長明祺：義大利？這主要還是跟教廷的互動。"],["徐委員巧芯：但是會經過義大利嘛？"],["陳次長明祺：對，一定會經過義大利。"],["徐委員巧芯：對啊，所以我問的是，義大利有沒有反對？義大利有沒有跟你們協調？"],["陳次長明祺：按照之前的……我們主要還是跟教廷協調之後，再來跟義大利協調。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以我問了……"],["陳次長明祺：我想是包括陳前總統……"],["徐委員巧芯：我問了嘛，義大利有沒有反對？"],["陳次長明祺：沒有。"],["徐委員巧芯：沒有反對？"],["陳次長明祺：沒有聽說。"],["徐委員巧芯：沒有聽說？"],["陳次長明祺：沒有這樣的……"],["徐委員巧芯：完全就是因為賴清德總統自己有行程，所以沒有參加。"],["陳次長明祺：不是，委員不是這樣說，是由總統來決定人選為何。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以是總統決定不參加的？"],["陳次長明祺：總統覺得陳前副總統跟教宗有實際的個人情誼，本身又是天主教徒，非常受到教廷的重視，我想這是一個尊重……"],["徐委員巧芯：陳前副總統。"],["陳次長明祺：派陳前副總統去是一個尊重喪家的決定，也是一個最適當的人選。"],["徐委員巧芯：但問題是賴總統如果去的話，層級更高啊！"],["陳次長明祺：當然都很好。但我覺得總統有他的想法跟決定。"],["徐委員巧芯：未來如果選出新的教宗，也一樣是派陳前副總統去，梵蒂岡是歐洲很重要的友邦，結果賴總統都不去參加，因為他行程很忙，他認為說陳前副總統跟教宗、教廷比較熟，就派他去。問題是這樣子的話，對我們國家的友邦，當然我知道陳前副總統跟梵諦岡有好的關係，他是天主教的，但更重要的是，如果是賴總統去的話，他的層級更高，能夠代表中華民國去致意，是更重要而且更讓對方感受到我們是友邦，這一定是如此的嘛！"],["陳次長明祺：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：我再把問題講一次，時間到了，也不用特別回答。第一個，為什麼賴總統不是自己去參加，而是請陳前副總統去參加？第二個，在過程當中，總統是怎麼樣去決策的？是行程太忙，還是受到什麼樣的打壓？第三個，前面包含陳前總統，就是陳水扁總統及馬英九總統都有親自到了梵蒂岡，為什麼到現在賴總統都沒有去過？再來，前副總統跟拜登拍照，為什麼你們沒有放在新聞稿裡面，而是放了一些與其他友邦的互動？最後，我要強調的是，接下來如果教宗選出來之後的就職觀禮，到底賴清德總統去或是不去？我們當然都希望賴清德總統可以爭取去。"],["陳次長明祺：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：而不是像這次這樣子，我知道陳前副總統跟教宗、跟梵蒂岡是非常親近的，但是它身為我們的友邦，我國的元首出席是更重要的一件事情。我們希望接下來觀禮的部分，因為總是會選出來，還有一段時間，等到觀禮的時候，是由賴總統親自到，而不是說：哎呀！我行程很忙，所以沒辦法去就請別人，因為我覺得你們比較熟，我就請你去。不是的！梵蒂岡是我們在歐洲重要的友邦，應該由我們的元首出席，這才是中華民國對梵蒂岡最大的敬重，所以我希望外交部有機會的話，也要跟總統溝通這一點，不是說：哎呀！因為你跟他們很熟，就這樣。不是！我們是元首代表中華民國到梵蒂岡跟我們的友邦致意，無論是喪禮或者是觀禮都是一樣的，所以我們希望外交部能夠促成這樣的行程，才能展示出我們對於梵蒂岡作為友邦的最高重視，謝謝。"],["陳次長明祺：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝徐巧芯的質詢。","接下來請馬文君上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":352,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-12","speakers":["黃仁","陳俊宇","羅美玲","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","馬文君","沈伯洋","林楚茵","王定宇","陳培瑜","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林憶君","蔡易餘","林倩綺","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":311,"meetingDate":["2025-05-08"],"gazette_id":"1144601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長、原住民族委員會主任委員報告「運用總和外交理念結合南島語系國家，以發揮\n價值外交願景之規劃與策略」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144601_00006"}}}