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255.154, \"end\": 255.574, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 255.574, \"end\": 255.695, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 255.695, \"end\": 255.955, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 255.955, \"end\": 256.195, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 256.195, \"end\": 256.355, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 256.355, \"end\": 256.595, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 256.595, \"end\": 257.076, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 257.076, \"end\": 257.096, \"score\": 0.272}, {\"word\": \"會\"}]}, {\"start\": 258.517, \"end\": 286.972, \"text\": \"牽涉到各自的部分 我們民眾是不是也能夠這樣去行使退出權好 因為憲判的那個退出權現在是先鎖定是這個資料庫所以沒有說叫各自法要去訂一個那這個部分我們希望說那個就是各自會這邊的時候其實針對這部分趕快去因為你剛剛在回答其他委員我有聽到一個點就是說你希望按照兩階段修法其實這兩階段修法其實坦白說我有特別注意到其實原本我們召委他原本排的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"牽\"}, {\"word\": \"涉\", \"start\": 258.517, \"end\": 258.637, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 258.637, \"end\": 258.857, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": 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\"那個議程的時候本來是院版加上11個委員的版本結果現在後來只剩下院版加3個委員的版本那顯然的時候我想應該是你這邊特別去拜託把一些相關的跟這一次行政院院版沒有關係的法案都先不排列是這樣子的一個情況嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 287.592, \"end\": 289.294, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 289.294, \"end\": 289.514, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 289.514, \"end\": 289.614, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 289.614, \"end\": 289.814, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 289.814, \"end\": 290.174, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 290.174, \"end\": 290.655, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 290.655, \"end\": 290.975, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"版\", \"start\": 290.975, \"end\": 291.215, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 291.215, \"end\": 291.435, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 291.435, \"end\": 292.076, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, 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{\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 304.605, \"end\": 304.786, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 304.786, \"end\": 304.946, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 304.946, \"end\": 305.086, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 305.086, \"end\": 305.266, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 305.266, \"end\": 305.486, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"版\", \"start\": 305.486, \"end\": 305.646, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 305.646, \"end\": 305.786, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 305.786, \"end\": 306.407, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 306.407, \"end\": 306.607, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 306.607, \"end\": 306.727, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 306.727, \"end\": 307.147, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 307.147, \"end\": 307.307, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 307.307, \"end\": 307.468, 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{\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 665.907, \"end\": 666.268, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 666.268, \"end\": 666.288, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,774 --> 00:00:11,509\n謝謝主席我想請一下各自保護委員會籌備處的李士德主任來請李主任\n\n2\n00:00:17,981 --> 00:00:40,527\n市長很早市長很早我在想說因為憲法法庭在111年憲判當中的時候有特別一道台灣健保資料庫其實的運用有部分違憲的事情而且要求三年內要改善那我想說我想這次我們行政院這次提出了一個院版的個資法修法應該跟這有很密切的關係應該是這樣子吧\n\n3\n00:00:43,772 --> 00:00:58,033\n你可以用跟委員報告就是當時候一年的宪判十三次他有主文二跟主文三四那三跟四目前現在就是由衛福部正在草擬一個很重要的衛福專法\n\n4\n00:00:58,934 --> 00:01:17,572\n二的這一塊它當然是獨立進行啦但是等到個人治療保護員會未來成立之後這個健保的一個未來這個衛生福利專法它的運作過程因為畢竟它也是一個公務機關它在院照對法規的個人治療保護員還是要去監督它對於這一個專法的理解喔\n\n5\n00:01:18,332 --> 00:01:37,789\n所以我在想說我們這些修法當中的時候因為當時當時憲判當中提到兩個第一個是我們要成立一個那個獨立的監督機制嘛因為不夠所以要有一個獨立監督機制另外就是我們對於各自個人退出權的這個部分對不對所以我在想說所以各自會目前的時候\n\n6\n00:01:38,650 --> 00:01:50,531\n正在積極籌備當中那我知道說組織法也送到執法法治委員會我們有沒有預計大概什麼時候這個各自會能夠順利成立\n\n7\n00:01:51,604 --> 00:02:18,162\n你這邊有沒有具體抓一個時間點我們當然是也期盼在這個會期能夠審議通過但是因為審議通過之後未來還有一段的時間通過之後的這個法還要再去執行理解所以你希望這個會期這個法通過之後就可以開始成立嘛對不對就開始去規劃那因為行政院會再去指定修正過後的個資法的實行時間我們現在這個時間把它說越短越好\n\n8\n00:02:18,502 --> 00:02:43,088\nOK理解那我在想說因為在那個憲判當中的時候也特別提到了就是退出權的問題那健保署這邊很清楚的提到說相關的一個健保署的退出權大概八月份可以實施嘛對不對可以實施具體時間點是這樣的是不是是不是要衛福部要先做說明因為這是他們專法裡面規劃的OK\n\n9\n00:02:48,198 --> 00:02:48,724\n透過麥克風講好不好\n\n10\n00:03:00,037 --> 00:03:24,814\n報導委員依照我們憲法判決第四項的說法就是不管我們專法有沒有通過然後退出權民眾都可以向健保署去申請那這一塊的部分我們健保署已經有在做相關的規劃那未來不管我的健保資料管理條例能不能在這個會期通過健保署都會對外宣布有關那個健保資料申請退出的機制\n\n11\n00:03:30,318 --> 00:03:52,992\n那我想特別請教一下李主任那個您繼續在這位副部這邊因為其實跟我們有相關的個資的部分包括國健署的癌症登記包括我們社會安全網的個資包括我們醫護集法統計法精神衛生法等等很多的部分這個部分的時候我們民眾是不是一樣有退出權的一個可以使用\n\n12\n00:03:54,053 --> 00:04:17,096\n李主任跟委員報告目前111年13號的判決裡面他的退出權的這個其實現在是先苛責說衛福專法就是健保資料庫因為剛剛衛福部這邊有提到說不管專法有沒有過他們現在民眾都可以去要求退出權那按照這樣子的原則當中的時候只要像其他的部會\n\n13\n00:04:18,517 --> 00:04:46,972\n牽涉到各自的部分我們民眾是不是也能夠這樣去行使退出權好因為憲判的那個退出權現在是先鎖定是這個資料庫所以沒有說叫各自法要去訂一個那這個部分我們希望說那個就是各自會這邊的時候其實針對這部分趕快去因為你剛剛在回答其他委員我有聽到一個點就是說你希望按照兩階段修法其實這兩階段修法其實坦白說我有特別注意到其實原本我們召委他原本排的\n\n14\n00:04:47,592 --> 00:05:08,608\n那個議程的時候本來是院版加上11個委員的版本結果現在後來只剩下院版加3個委員的版本那顯然的時候我想應該是你這邊特別去拜託把一些相關的跟這一次行政院院版沒有關係的法案都先不排列是這樣子的一個情況嗎\n\n15\n00:05:10,030 --> 00:05:32,001\n跟委員報告當然排案是召委的權利啦但是以目前現在的一個規劃的方式版我們就是兩階段那還有其他委員的一些提案我們當然是希望說我們目前第二階段的我們還在持續在籌備出來這個研議那也沒有說要等到說個人資料保安會成立之後他才開始去接手\n\n16\n00:05:32,521 --> 00:05:47,435\n我們希望他趕快成立然後下一階段這邊的接手能夠無縫接夥因為我針對這個比方說原本這是一個委員當中的版本當中我看到了就是家福中心他最近有一個民調出來的時候就是台灣就是\n\n17\n00:05:50,905 --> 00:06:08,298\n接觸網路的年紀越來越小然後比例越來越高然後各自曝光的風險其實也越來越高針對這樣的情況的時候所以我發現數位足跡很重要通信紀錄很重要可是\n\n18\n00:06:09,139 --> 00:06:24,273\n在其他有很多的委員本來都提到了相關的部分可是在這一次修法當中都沒有提我在想可能就是你剛剛提到說想要二階段修法的時候所以這個部分可能都沒有排到今天的一個修法版本當中\n\n19\n00:06:24,973 --> 00:06:45,188\n對因為跟委員報告我們是期盼因為其實未來真正要對話是長射機關努力機關而不是籌備處我知道各個委員都期盼最後各支法還是要做很多大的修正所以我們現在的目標是當然趕快先把這個機關籌設必要配套各支法這個第一階段先通過\n\n20\n00:06:46,469 --> 00:07:08,167\n然後二階段的這個修法內容所以你的意思是說你的責任就是就把這個委員會籌設起來之後修法的部分就是以後人家的事情是這個意思嗎我們現在籌備處在還沒有也同時在做嘛對不對所以我認為其實很多委員的版本當中都有提到了一個數位主機跟通訊記錄這相關的問題我覺得是非常重要的\n\n21\n00:07:11,929 --> 00:07:39,406\n所以我們也希望就是現在能夠做的就馬上去做不要等到推到第二階段不會這樣子嘛第二階段的工作我們現在已經在開始進行那我另外要特別提到因為經濟部不斷的在推AI這部分那確實也非常的蓬勃那AI這邊可能會牽涉到的一些個資的一些問題\n\n22\n00:07:41,690 --> 00:08:08,990\n我們這邊要怎麼處理打算要在什麼時候的時候能夠把這個部分把它處理好好當然這邊有一個重要的就所謂的人工智慧基本法也同時之內進行人工智慧基本法裡面很重要就是個資保護是現在在規劃的一個方向有關於涉及到人工智慧的個資保護是要由未來的這個個人資料保護委員會\n\n23\n00:08:10,571 --> 00:08:28,411\n那您剛有提到我剛聽到你在回答另外一個委員提到說這個部分如果牽涉到公司他如果沒有在台灣落地的時候我們要怎麼處理因為你剛有特別提到公司有沒有落地在台灣很關鍵對於我們各自的保障能不能真正的保障到那我們這個部分我們要怎麼去做\n\n24\n00:08:29,191 --> 00:08:48,949\n對當然就是下一階段在處理我們剛才說管轄權的部分要把它明確出來那指定落地現在已經有一個不錯的經驗在那個炸打的這個條例裡面它是採用指定你落地的方法那我們覺得這是一個很好的一個立法的法治經驗我們在剛剛所說的二階段這部分我們會把它參酌進來是\n\n25\n00:08:50,850 --> 00:09:15,781\n那我在想說二階段這邊希望該保障各自的部分我們趕快做能夠做就做不要把很多的事情都推到了二階段之後我覺得這樣其實是不適合的我們繼續希望就是說我們繼續做做到說他成立之後把我們這個任務型機關他會裁測相關的業務會移波到那邊在這之前我們能做的還是要繼續進行\n\n26\n00:09:17,340 --> 00:09:34,586\n最後我要特別提到因為這次願滿當中的時候它對於非公務機關的對個資保障如果沒有落實的時候會罰則而且範圍擴大可是對於公務機關的部分一樣沒有任何的罰則那這個部分我們要怎麼處理\n\n27\n00:09:36,038 --> 00:09:51,306\n跟委員報告就是我們現在的規定還是內部的這個懲戒懲處這個機制我們還是有把他補進來那公務機關的一個處方也參照我們最近在看外國的立法尤其是英國他們就是經驗之下他們發覺\n\n28\n00:09:53,027 --> 00:10:11,147\n不是說處罰公務機關直接就可以產生很多的一個廣泛的效應因為公務機關就這樣你處罰他他還是會去進行徵送所以變成耗費很多時間在進行徵送所以英國最近他們也在考量說這個處罰公務機關這件事情到底他的實際性有到多高\n\n29\n00:10:11,607 --> 00:10:28,613\nOK那這部分還是得要去處理因為當我們這次修法的時候針對非公務機關的處罰是提高的狀態大幅提高的狀態然後我們對於之前2300萬筆護證資料外洩的事情到現在感覺也都沒有任何的一個懲處\n\n30\n00:10:30,074 --> 00:10:52,214\n那感覺好像就是公務機關如果說洩漏個資的時候好像也都無所謂那我覺得這樣其實是有問題的那我們也希望主任在這個部分的時候當我們要成立個資會的時候這個機制我們現在已經把它放進來在上次你也知道委員有就教我們所以我們就把委員的這個希望說對於人員的懲戒懲處要放進來所以我們這次修法有把它先放進來\n\n31\n00:10:53,001 --> 00:11:06,288\nOK好那這個部分的時候我們也希望能夠好好去落實然後對於我們個資的部分不只是只要求非公務機關我們公務機關也能夠給就是台灣的個資做最好的一個保障好不好是是是謝謝委員支持好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6774\t11509\t謝謝主席我想請一下各自保護委員會籌備處的李士德主任來請李主任\n17981\t40527\t市長很早市長很早我在想說因為憲法法庭在111年憲判當中的時候有特別一道台灣健保資料庫其實的運用有部分違憲的事情而且要求三年內要改善那我想說我想這次我們行政院這次提出了一個院版的個資法修法應該跟這有很密切的關係應該是這樣子吧\n43772\t58033\t你可以用跟委員報告就是當時候一年的宪判十三次他有主文二跟主文三四那三跟四目前現在就是由衛福部正在草擬一個很重要的衛福專法\n58934\t77572\t二的這一塊它當然是獨立進行啦但是等到個人治療保護員會未來成立之後這個健保的一個未來這個衛生福利專法它的運作過程因為畢竟它也是一個公務機關它在院照對法規的個人治療保護員還是要去監督它對於這一個專法的理解喔\n78332\t97789\t所以我在想說我們這些修法當中的時候因為當時當時憲判當中提到兩個第一個是我們要成立一個那個獨立的監督機制嘛因為不夠所以要有一個獨立監督機制另外就是我們對於各自個人退出權的這個部分對不對所以我在想說所以各自會目前的時候\n98650\t110531\t正在積極籌備當中那我知道說組織法也送到執法法治委員會我們有沒有預計大概什麼時候這個各自會能夠順利成立\n111604\t138162\t你這邊有沒有具體抓一個時間點我們當然是也期盼在這個會期能夠審議通過但是因為審議通過之後未來還有一段的時間通過之後的這個法還要再去執行理解所以你希望這個會期這個法通過之後就可以開始成立嘛對不對就開始去規劃那因為行政院會再去指定修正過後的個資法的實行時間我們現在這個時間把它說越短越好\n138502\t163088\tOK 理解那我在想說因為在那個憲判當中的時候也特別提到了就是退出權的問題那健保署這邊很清楚的提到說相關的一個健保署的退出權大概八月份可以實施嘛對不對可以實施具體時間點是這樣的是不是是不是要衛福部要先做說明因為這是他們專法裡面規劃的OK\n168198\t168724\t透過麥克風講好不好\n180037\t204814\t報導委員依照我們憲法判決第四項的說法就是不管我們專法有沒有通過然後退出權民眾都可以向健保署去申請那這一塊的部分我們健保署已經有在做相關的規劃那未來不管我的健保資料管理條例能不能在這個會期通過健保署都會對外宣布有關那個健保資料申請退出的機制\n210318\t232992\t那我想特別請教一下李主任那個您繼續在這位副部這邊因為其實跟我們有相關的個資的部分包括國健署的癌症登記包括我們社會安全網的個資包括我們醫護集法統計法精神衛生法等等很多的部分這個部分的時候我們民眾是不是一樣有退出權的一個可以使用\n234053\t257096\t李主任跟委員報告目前111年13號的判決裡面他的退出權的這個其實現在是先苛責說衛福專法就是健保資料庫因為剛剛衛福部這邊有提到說不管專法有沒有過他們現在民眾都可以去要求退出權那按照這樣子的原則當中的時候只要像其他的部會\n258517\t286972\t牽涉到各自的部分 我們民眾是不是也能夠這樣去行使退出權好 因為憲判的那個退出權現在是先鎖定是這個資料庫所以沒有說叫各自法要去訂一個那這個部分我們希望說那個就是各自會這邊的時候其實針對這部分趕快去因為你剛剛在回答其他委員我有聽到一個點就是說你希望按照兩階段修法其實這兩階段修法其實坦白說我有特別注意到其實原本我們召委他原本排的\n287592\t308608\t那個議程的時候本來是院版加上11個委員的版本結果現在後來只剩下院版加3個委員的版本那顯然的時候我想應該是你這邊特別去拜託把一些相關的跟這一次行政院院版沒有關係的法案都先不排列是這樣子的一個情況嗎\n310030\t332001\t跟委員報告 當然排案是召委的權利啦但是以目前現在的一個規劃的方式版我們就是兩階段那還有其他委員的一些提案我們當然是希望說我們目前第二階段的我們還在持續在籌備出來這個研議那也沒有說要等到說個人資料保安會成立之後他才開始去接手\n332521\t347435\t我們希望他趕快成立然後下一階段這邊的接手能夠無縫接夥因為我針對這個比方說原本這是一個委員當中的版本當中我看到了就是家福中心他最近有一個民調出來的時候就是台灣就是\n350905\t368298\t接觸網路的年紀越來越小然後比例越來越高然後各自曝光的風險其實也越來越高針對這樣的情況的時候所以我發現數位足跡很重要通信紀錄很重要可是\n369139\t384273\t在其他有很多的委員本來都提到了相關的部分可是在這一次修法當中都沒有提我在想可能就是你剛剛提到說想要二階段修法的時候所以這個部分可能都沒有排到今天的一個修法版本當中\n384973\t405188\t對 因為跟委員報告 我們是期盼 因為其實未來真正要對話是長射機關努力機關 而不是籌備處 我知道各個委員都期盼最後各支法還是要做很多大的修正所以我們現在的目標是 當然趕快先把這個機關籌設 必要配套各支法這個第一階段先通過\n406469\t428167\t然後二階段的這個修法內容所以你的意思是說你的責任就是就把這個委員會籌設起來之後修法的部分就是以後人家的事情是這個意思嗎我們現在籌備處在還沒有也同時在做嘛對不對所以我認為其實很多委員的版本當中都有提到了一個數位主機跟通訊記錄這相關的問題我覺得是非常重要的\n431929\t459406\t所以我們也希望就是現在能夠做的就馬上去做不要等到推到第二階段不會這樣子嘛第二階段的工作我們現在已經在開始進行那我另外要特別提到因為經濟部不斷的在推AI這部分那確實也非常的蓬勃那AI這邊可能會牽涉到的一些個資的一些問題\n461690\t488990\t我們這邊要怎麼處理打算要在什麼時候的時候能夠把這個部分把它處理好好 當然這邊有一個重要的就所謂的人工智慧基本法也同時之內進行人工智慧基本法裡面很重要就是個資保護是現在在規劃的一個方向有關於涉及到人工智慧的個資保護是要由未來的這個個人資料保護委員會\n490571\t508411\t那您剛有提到我剛聽到你在回答另外一個委員提到說這個部分如果牽涉到公司他如果沒有在台灣落地的時候我們要怎麼處理因為你剛有特別提到公司有沒有落地在台灣很關鍵對於我們各自的保障能不能真正的保障到那我們這個部分我們要怎麼去做\n509191\t528949\t對 當然就是下一階段在處理我們剛才說管轄權的部分要把它明確出來那指定落地現在已經有一個不錯的經驗在那個炸打的這個條例裡面它是採用指定你落地的方法那我們覺得這是一個很好的一個立法的法治經驗我們在剛剛所說的二階段這部分我們會把它參酌進來是\n530850\t555781\t那我在想說二階段這邊希望該保障各自的部分我們趕快做能夠做就做不要把很多的事情都推到了二階段之後我覺得這樣其實是不適合的我們繼續希望就是說我們繼續做做到說他成立之後把我們這個任務型機關他會裁測相關的業務會移波到那邊在這之前我們能做的還是要繼續進行\n557340\t574586\t最後我要特別提到因為這次願滿當中的時候它對於非公務機關的對個資保障如果沒有落實的時候會罰則而且範圍擴大可是對於公務機關的部分一樣沒有任何的罰則那這個部分我們要怎麼處理\n576038\t591306\t跟委員報告就是我們現在的規定還是內部的這個懲戒懲處這個機制我們還是有把他補進來那公務機關的一個處方也參照我們最近在看外國的立法尤其是英國他們就是經驗之下他們發覺\n593027\t611147\t不是說處罰公務機關直接就可以產生很多的一個廣泛的效應因為公務機關就這樣你處罰他他還是會去進行徵送所以變成耗費很多時間在進行徵送所以英國最近他們也在考量說這個處罰公務機關這件事情到底他的實際性有到多高\n611607\t628613\tOK 那這部分還是得要去處理因為當我們這次修法的時候針對非公務機關的處罰是提高的狀態大幅提高的狀態然後我們對於之前2300萬筆護證資料外洩的事情到現在感覺也都沒有任何的一個懲處\n630074\t652214\t那感覺好像就是公務機關如果說洩漏個資的時候好像也都無所謂那我覺得這樣其實是有問題的那我們也希望主任在這個部分的時候當我們要成立個資會的時候這個機制我們現在已經把它放進來在上次你也知道委員有就教我們所以我們就把委員的這個希望說對於人員的懲戒懲處要放進來所以我們這次修法有把它先放進來\n653001\t666288\tOK好那這個部分的時候我們也希望能夠好好去落實然後對於我們個資的部分不只是只要求非公務機關我們公務機關也能夠給就是台灣的個資做最好的一個保障好不好是是是謝謝委員支持好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席我想請一下各自保護委員會籌備處的李士德主任來請李主任\n市長很早市長很早我在想說因為憲法法庭在111年憲判當中的時候有特別一道台灣健保資料庫其實的運用有部分違憲的事情而且要求三年內要改善那我想說我想這次我們行政院這次提出了一個院版的個資法修法應該跟這有很密切的關係應該是這樣子吧\n你可以用跟委員報告就是當時候一年的宪判十三次他有主文二跟主文三四那三跟四目前現在就是由衛福部正在草擬一個很重要的衛福專法\n二的這一塊它當然是獨立進行啦但是等到個人治療保護員會未來成立之後這個健保的一個未來這個衛生福利專法它的運作過程因為畢竟它也是一個公務機關它在院照對法規的個人治療保護員還是要去監督它對於這一個專法的理解喔\n所以我在想說我們這些修法當中的時候因為當時當時憲判當中提到兩個第一個是我們要成立一個那個獨立的監督機制嘛因為不夠所以要有一個獨立監督機制另外就是我們對於各自個人退出權的這個部分對不對所以我在想說所以各自會目前的時候\n正在積極籌備當中那我知道說組織法也送到執法法治委員會我們有沒有預計大概什麼時候這個各自會能夠順利成立\n你這邊有沒有具體抓一個時間點我們當然是也期盼在這個會期能夠審議通過但是因為審議通過之後未來還有一段的時間通過之後的這個法還要再去執行理解所以你希望這個會期這個法通過之後就可以開始成立嘛對不對就開始去規劃那因為行政院會再去指定修正過後的個資法的實行時間我們現在這個時間把它說越短越好\nOK 理解那我在想說因為在那個憲判當中的時候也特別提到了就是退出權的問題那健保署這邊很清楚的提到說相關的一個健保署的退出權大概八月份可以實施嘛對不對可以實施具體時間點是這樣的是不是是不是要衛福部要先做說明因為這是他們專法裡面規劃的OK\n透過麥克風講好不好\n報導委員依照我們憲法判決第四項的說法就是不管我們專法有沒有通過然後退出權民眾都可以向健保署去申請那這一塊的部分我們健保署已經有在做相關的規劃那未來不管我的健保資料管理條例能不能在這個會期通過健保署都會對外宣布有關那個健保資料申請退出的機制\n那我想特別請教一下李主任那個您繼續在這位副部這邊因為其實跟我們有相關的個資的部分包括國健署的癌症登記包括我們社會安全網的個資包括我們醫護集法統計法精神衛生法等等很多的部分這個部分的時候我們民眾是不是一樣有退出權的一個可以使用\n李主任跟委員報告目前111年13號的判決裡面他的退出權的這個其實現在是先苛責說衛福專法就是健保資料庫因為剛剛衛福部這邊有提到說不管專法有沒有過他們現在民眾都可以去要求退出權那按照這樣子的原則當中的時候只要像其他的部會\n牽涉到各自的部分 我們民眾是不是也能夠這樣去行使退出權好 因為憲判的那個退出權現在是先鎖定是這個資料庫所以沒有說叫各自法要去訂一個那這個部分我們希望說那個就是各自會這邊的時候其實針對這部分趕快去因為你剛剛在回答其他委員我有聽到一個點就是說你希望按照兩階段修法其實這兩階段修法其實坦白說我有特別注意到其實原本我們召委他原本排的\n那個議程的時候本來是院版加上11個委員的版本結果現在後來只剩下院版加3個委員的版本那顯然的時候我想應該是你這邊特別去拜託把一些相關的跟這一次行政院院版沒有關係的法案都先不排列是這樣子的一個情況嗎\n跟委員報告 當然排案是召委的權利啦但是以目前現在的一個規劃的方式版我們就是兩階段那還有其他委員的一些提案我們當然是希望說我們目前第二階段的我們還在持續在籌備出來這個研議那也沒有說要等到說個人資料保安會成立之後他才開始去接手\n我們希望他趕快成立然後下一階段這邊的接手能夠無縫接夥因為我針對這個比方說原本這是一個委員當中的版本當中我看到了就是家福中心他最近有一個民調出來的時候就是台灣就是\n接觸網路的年紀越來越小然後比例越來越高然後各自曝光的風險其實也越來越高針對這樣的情況的時候所以我發現數位足跡很重要通信紀錄很重要可是\n在其他有很多的委員本來都提到了相關的部分可是在這一次修法當中都沒有提我在想可能就是你剛剛提到說想要二階段修法的時候所以這個部分可能都沒有排到今天的一個修法版本當中\n對 因為跟委員報告 我們是期盼 因為其實未來真正要對話是長射機關努力機關 而不是籌備處 我知道各個委員都期盼最後各支法還是要做很多大的修正所以我們現在的目標是 當然趕快先把這個機關籌設 必要配套各支法這個第一階段先通過\n然後二階段的這個修法內容所以你的意思是說你的責任就是就把這個委員會籌設起來之後修法的部分就是以後人家的事情是這個意思嗎我們現在籌備處在還沒有也同時在做嘛對不對所以我認為其實很多委員的版本當中都有提到了一個數位主機跟通訊記錄這相關的問題我覺得是非常重要的\n所以我們也希望就是現在能夠做的就馬上去做不要等到推到第二階段不會這樣子嘛第二階段的工作我們現在已經在開始進行那我另外要特別提到因為經濟部不斷的在推AI這部分那確實也非常的蓬勃那AI這邊可能會牽涉到的一些個資的一些問題\n我們這邊要怎麼處理打算要在什麼時候的時候能夠把這個部分把它處理好好 當然這邊有一個重要的就所謂的人工智慧基本法也同時之內進行人工智慧基本法裡面很重要就是個資保護是現在在規劃的一個方向有關於涉及到人工智慧的個資保護是要由未來的這個個人資料保護委員會\n那您剛有提到我剛聽到你在回答另外一個委員提到說這個部分如果牽涉到公司他如果沒有在台灣落地的時候我們要怎麼處理因為你剛有特別提到公司有沒有落地在台灣很關鍵對於我們各自的保障能不能真正的保障到那我們這個部分我們要怎麼去做\n對 當然就是下一階段在處理我們剛才說管轄權的部分要把它明確出來那指定落地現在已經有一個不錯的經驗在那個炸打的這個條例裡面它是採用指定你落地的方法那我們覺得這是一個很好的一個立法的法治經驗我們在剛剛所說的二階段這部分我們會把它參酌進來是\n那我在想說二階段這邊希望該保障各自的部分我們趕快做能夠做就做不要把很多的事情都推到了二階段之後我覺得這樣其實是不適合的我們繼續希望就是說我們繼續做做到說他成立之後把我們這個任務型機關他會裁測相關的業務會移波到那邊在這之前我們能做的還是要繼續進行\n最後我要特別提到因為這次願滿當中的時候它對於非公務機關的對個資保障如果沒有落實的時候會罰則而且範圍擴大可是對於公務機關的部分一樣沒有任何的罰則那這個部分我們要怎麼處理\n跟委員報告就是我們現在的規定還是內部的這個懲戒懲處這個機制我們還是有把他補進來那公務機關的一個處方也參照我們最近在看外國的立法尤其是英國他們就是經驗之下他們發覺\n不是說處罰公務機關直接就可以產生很多的一個廣泛的效應因為公務機關就這樣你處罰他他還是會去進行徵送所以變成耗費很多時間在進行徵送所以英國最近他們也在考量說這個處罰公務機關這件事情到底他的實際性有到多高\nOK 那這部分還是得要去處理因為當我們這次修法的時候針對非公務機關的處罰是提高的狀態大幅提高的狀態然後我們對於之前2300萬筆護證資料外洩的事情到現在感覺也都沒有任何的一個懲處\n那感覺好像就是公務機關如果說洩漏個資的時候好像也都無所謂那我覺得這樣其實是有問題的那我們也希望主任在這個部分的時候當我們要成立個資會的時候這個機制我們現在已經把它放進來在上次你也知道委員有就教我們所以我們就把委員的這個希望說對於人員的懲戒懲處要放進來所以我們這次修法有把它先放進來\nOK好那這個部分的時候我們也希望能夠好好去落實然後對於我們個資的部分不只是只要求非公務機關我們公務機關也能夠給就是台灣的個資做最好的一個保障好不好是是是謝謝委員支持好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.774 --> 00:11.509\n謝謝主席我想請一下各自保護委員會籌備處的李士德主任來請李主任\n\n00:17.981 --> 00:40.527\n市長很早市長很早我在想說因為憲法法庭在111年憲判當中的時候有特別一道台灣健保資料庫其實的運用有部分違憲的事情而且要求三年內要改善那我想說我想這次我們行政院這次提出了一個院版的個資法修法應該跟這有很密切的關係應該是這樣子吧\n\n00:43.772 --> 00:58.033\n你可以用跟委員報告就是當時候一年的宪判十三次他有主文二跟主文三四那三跟四目前現在就是由衛福部正在草擬一個很重要的衛福專法\n\n00:58.934 --> 01:17.572\n二的這一塊它當然是獨立進行啦但是等到個人治療保護員會未來成立之後這個健保的一個未來這個衛生福利專法它的運作過程因為畢竟它也是一個公務機關它在院照對法規的個人治療保護員還是要去監督它對於這一個專法的理解喔\n\n01:18.332 --> 01:37.789\n所以我在想說我們這些修法當中的時候因為當時當時憲判當中提到兩個第一個是我們要成立一個那個獨立的監督機制嘛因為不夠所以要有一個獨立監督機制另外就是我們對於各自個人退出權的這個部分對不對所以我在想說所以各自會目前的時候\n\n01:38.650 --> 01:50.531\n正在積極籌備當中那我知道說組織法也送到執法法治委員會我們有沒有預計大概什麼時候這個各自會能夠順利成立\n\n01:51.604 --> 02:18.162\n你這邊有沒有具體抓一個時間點我們當然是也期盼在這個會期能夠審議通過但是因為審議通過之後未來還有一段的時間通過之後的這個法還要再去執行理解所以你希望這個會期這個法通過之後就可以開始成立嘛對不對就開始去規劃那因為行政院會再去指定修正過後的個資法的實行時間我們現在這個時間把它說越短越好\n\n02:18.502 --> 02:43.088\nOK理解那我在想說因為在那個憲判當中的時候也特別提到了就是退出權的問題那健保署這邊很清楚的提到說相關的一個健保署的退出權大概八月份可以實施嘛對不對可以實施具體時間點是這樣的是不是是不是要衛福部要先做說明因為這是他們專法裡面規劃的OK\n\n02:48.198 --> 02:48.724\n透過麥克風講好不好\n\n03:00.037 --> 03:24.814\n報導委員依照我們憲法判決第四項的說法就是不管我們專法有沒有通過然後退出權民眾都可以向健保署去申請那這一塊的部分我們健保署已經有在做相關的規劃那未來不管我的健保資料管理條例能不能在這個會期通過健保署都會對外宣布有關那個健保資料申請退出的機制\n\n03:30.318 --> 03:52.992\n那我想特別請教一下李主任那個您繼續在這位副部這邊因為其實跟我們有相關的個資的部分包括國健署的癌症登記包括我們社會安全網的個資包括我們醫護集法統計法精神衛生法等等很多的部分這個部分的時候我們民眾是不是一樣有退出權的一個可以使用\n\n03:54.053 --> 04:17.096\n李主任跟委員報告目前111年13號的判決裡面他的退出權的這個其實現在是先苛責說衛福專法就是健保資料庫因為剛剛衛福部這邊有提到說不管專法有沒有過他們現在民眾都可以去要求退出權那按照這樣子的原則當中的時候只要像其他的部會\n\n04:18.517 --> 04:46.972\n牽涉到各自的部分我們民眾是不是也能夠這樣去行使退出權好因為憲判的那個退出權現在是先鎖定是這個資料庫所以沒有說叫各自法要去訂一個那這個部分我們希望說那個就是各自會這邊的時候其實針對這部分趕快去因為你剛剛在回答其他委員我有聽到一個點就是說你希望按照兩階段修法其實這兩階段修法其實坦白說我有特別注意到其實原本我們召委他原本排的\n\n04:47.592 --> 05:08.608\n那個議程的時候本來是院版加上11個委員的版本結果現在後來只剩下院版加3個委員的版本那顯然的時候我想應該是你這邊特別去拜託把一些相關的跟這一次行政院院版沒有關係的法案都先不排列是這樣子的一個情況嗎\n\n05:10.030 --> 05:32.001\n跟委員報告當然排案是召委的權利啦但是以目前現在的一個規劃的方式版我們就是兩階段那還有其他委員的一些提案我們當然是希望說我們目前第二階段的我們還在持續在籌備出來這個研議那也沒有說要等到說個人資料保安會成立之後他才開始去接手\n\n05:32.521 --> 05:47.435\n我們希望他趕快成立然後下一階段這邊的接手能夠無縫接夥因為我針對這個比方說原本這是一個委員當中的版本當中我看到了就是家福中心他最近有一個民調出來的時候就是台灣就是\n\n05:50.905 --> 06:08.298\n接觸網路的年紀越來越小然後比例越來越高然後各自曝光的風險其實也越來越高針對這樣的情況的時候所以我發現數位足跡很重要通信紀錄很重要可是\n\n06:09.139 --> 06:24.273\n在其他有很多的委員本來都提到了相關的部分可是在這一次修法當中都沒有提我在想可能就是你剛剛提到說想要二階段修法的時候所以這個部分可能都沒有排到今天的一個修法版本當中\n\n06:24.973 --> 06:45.188\n對因為跟委員報告我們是期盼因為其實未來真正要對話是長射機關努力機關而不是籌備處我知道各個委員都期盼最後各支法還是要做很多大的修正所以我們現在的目標是當然趕快先把這個機關籌設必要配套各支法這個第一階段先通過\n\n06:46.469 --> 07:08.167\n然後二階段的這個修法內容所以你的意思是說你的責任就是就把這個委員會籌設起來之後修法的部分就是以後人家的事情是這個意思嗎我們現在籌備處在還沒有也同時在做嘛對不對所以我認為其實很多委員的版本當中都有提到了一個數位主機跟通訊記錄這相關的問題我覺得是非常重要的\n\n07:11.929 --> 07:39.406\n所以我們也希望就是現在能夠做的就馬上去做不要等到推到第二階段不會這樣子嘛第二階段的工作我們現在已經在開始進行那我另外要特別提到因為經濟部不斷的在推AI這部分那確實也非常的蓬勃那AI這邊可能會牽涉到的一些個資的一些問題\n\n07:41.690 --> 08:08.990\n我們這邊要怎麼處理打算要在什麼時候的時候能夠把這個部分把它處理好好當然這邊有一個重要的就所謂的人工智慧基本法也同時之內進行人工智慧基本法裡面很重要就是個資保護是現在在規劃的一個方向有關於涉及到人工智慧的個資保護是要由未來的這個個人資料保護委員會\n\n08:10.571 --> 08:28.411\n那您剛有提到我剛聽到你在回答另外一個委員提到說這個部分如果牽涉到公司他如果沒有在台灣落地的時候我們要怎麼處理因為你剛有特別提到公司有沒有落地在台灣很關鍵對於我們各自的保障能不能真正的保障到那我們這個部分我們要怎麼去做\n\n08:29.191 --> 08:48.949\n對當然就是下一階段在處理我們剛才說管轄權的部分要把它明確出來那指定落地現在已經有一個不錯的經驗在那個炸打的這個條例裡面它是採用指定你落地的方法那我們覺得這是一個很好的一個立法的法治經驗我們在剛剛所說的二階段這部分我們會把它參酌進來是\n\n08:50.850 --> 09:15.781\n那我在想說二階段這邊希望該保障各自的部分我們趕快做能夠做就做不要把很多的事情都推到了二階段之後我覺得這樣其實是不適合的我們繼續希望就是說我們繼續做做到說他成立之後把我們這個任務型機關他會裁測相關的業務會移波到那邊在這之前我們能做的還是要繼續進行\n\n09:17.340 --> 09:34.586\n最後我要特別提到因為這次願滿當中的時候它對於非公務機關的對個資保障如果沒有落實的時候會罰則而且範圍擴大可是對於公務機關的部分一樣沒有任何的罰則那這個部分我們要怎麼處理\n\n09:36.038 --> 09:51.306\n跟委員報告就是我們現在的規定還是內部的這個懲戒懲處這個機制我們還是有把他補進來那公務機關的一個處方也參照我們最近在看外國的立法尤其是英國他們就是經驗之下他們發覺\n\n09:53.027 --> 10:11.147\n不是說處罰公務機關直接就可以產生很多的一個廣泛的效應因為公務機關就這樣你處罰他他還是會去進行徵送所以變成耗費很多時間在進行徵送所以英國最近他們也在考量說這個處罰公務機關這件事情到底他的實際性有到多高\n\n10:11.607 --> 10:28.613\nOK那這部分還是得要去處理因為當我們這次修法的時候針對非公務機關的處罰是提高的狀態大幅提高的狀態然後我們對於之前2300萬筆護證資料外洩的事情到現在感覺也都沒有任何的一個懲處\n\n10:30.074 --> 10:52.214\n那感覺好像就是公務機關如果說洩漏個資的時候好像也都無所謂那我覺得這樣其實是有問題的那我們也希望主任在這個部分的時候當我們要成立個資會的時候這個機制我們現在已經把它放進來在上次你也知道委員有就教我們所以我們就把委員的這個希望說對於人員的懲戒懲處要放進來所以我們這次修法有把它先放進來\n\n10:53.001 --> 11:06.288\nOK好那這個部分的時候我們也希望能夠好好去落實然後對於我們個資的部分不只是只要求非公務機關我們公務機關也能夠給就是台灣的個資做最好的一個保障好不好是是是謝謝委員支持好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.774,"end":11.509,"text":"謝謝主席我想請一下各自保護委員會籌備處的李士德主任來請李主任"},{"start":17.981,"end":40.527,"text":"市長很早市長很早我在想說因為憲法法庭在111年憲判當中的時候有特別一道台灣健保資料庫其實的運用有部分違憲的事情而且要求三年內要改善那我想說我想這次我們行政院這次提出了一個院版的個資法修法應該跟這有很密切的關係應該是這樣子吧"},{"start":43.772,"end":58.033,"text":"你可以用跟委員報告就是當時候一年的宪判十三次他有主文二跟主文三四那三跟四目前現在就是由衛福部正在草擬一個很重要的衛福專法"},{"start":58.934,"end":77.572,"text":"二的這一塊它當然是獨立進行啦但是等到個人治療保護員會未來成立之後這個健保的一個未來這個衛生福利專法它的運作過程因為畢竟它也是一個公務機關它在院照對法規的個人治療保護員還是要去監督它對於這一個專法的理解喔"},{"start":78.332,"end":97.789,"text":"所以我在想說我們這些修法當中的時候因為當時當時憲判當中提到兩個第一個是我們要成立一個那個獨立的監督機制嘛因為不夠所以要有一個獨立監督機制另外就是我們對於各自個人退出權的這個部分對不對所以我在想說所以各自會目前的時候"},{"start":98.65,"end":110.531,"text":"正在積極籌備當中那我知道說組織法也送到執法法治委員會我們有沒有預計大概什麼時候這個各自會能夠順利成立"},{"start":111.604,"end":138.162,"text":"你這邊有沒有具體抓一個時間點我們當然是也期盼在這個會期能夠審議通過但是因為審議通過之後未來還有一段的時間通過之後的這個法還要再去執行理解所以你希望這個會期這個法通過之後就可以開始成立嘛對不對就開始去規劃那因為行政院會再去指定修正過後的個資法的實行時間我們現在這個時間把它說越短越好"},{"start":138.502,"end":163.088,"text":"OK 理解那我在想說因為在那個憲判當中的時候也特別提到了就是退出權的問題那健保署這邊很清楚的提到說相關的一個健保署的退出權大概八月份可以實施嘛對不對可以實施具體時間點是這樣的是不是是不是要衛福部要先做說明因為這是他們專法裡面規劃的OK"},{"start":168.198,"end":168.724,"text":"透過麥克風講好不好"},{"start":180.037,"end":204.814,"text":"報導委員依照我們憲法判決第四項的說法就是不管我們專法有沒有通過然後退出權民眾都可以向健保署去申請那這一塊的部分我們健保署已經有在做相關的規劃那未來不管我的健保資料管理條例能不能在這個會期通過健保署都會對外宣布有關那個健保資料申請退出的機制"},{"start":210.318,"end":232.992,"text":"那我想特別請教一下李主任那個您繼續在這位副部這邊因為其實跟我們有相關的個資的部分包括國健署的癌症登記包括我們社會安全網的個資包括我們醫護集法統計法精神衛生法等等很多的部分這個部分的時候我們民眾是不是一樣有退出權的一個可以使用"},{"start":234.053,"end":257.096,"text":"李主任跟委員報告目前111年13號的判決裡面他的退出權的這個其實現在是先苛責說衛福專法就是健保資料庫因為剛剛衛福部這邊有提到說不管專法有沒有過他們現在民眾都可以去要求退出權那按照這樣子的原則當中的時候只要像其他的部會"},{"start":258.517,"end":286.972,"text":"牽涉到各自的部分 我們民眾是不是也能夠這樣去行使退出權好 因為憲判的那個退出權現在是先鎖定是這個資料庫所以沒有說叫各自法要去訂一個那這個部分我們希望說那個就是各自會這邊的時候其實針對這部分趕快去因為你剛剛在回答其他委員我有聽到一個點就是說你希望按照兩階段修法其實這兩階段修法其實坦白說我有特別注意到其實原本我們召委他原本排的"},{"start":287.592,"end":308.608,"text":"那個議程的時候本來是院版加上11個委員的版本結果現在後來只剩下院版加3個委員的版本那顯然的時候我想應該是你這邊特別去拜託把一些相關的跟這一次行政院院版沒有關係的法案都先不排列是這樣子的一個情況嗎"},{"start":310.03,"end":332.001,"text":"跟委員報告 當然排案是召委的權利啦但是以目前現在的一個規劃的方式版我們就是兩階段那還有其他委員的一些提案我們當然是希望說我們目前第二階段的我們還在持續在籌備出來這個研議那也沒有說要等到說個人資料保安會成立之後他才開始去接手"},{"start":332.521,"end":347.435,"text":"我們希望他趕快成立然後下一階段這邊的接手能夠無縫接夥因為我針對這個比方說原本這是一個委員當中的版本當中我看到了就是家福中心他最近有一個民調出來的時候就是台灣就是"},{"start":350.905,"end":368.298,"text":"接觸網路的年紀越來越小然後比例越來越高然後各自曝光的風險其實也越來越高針對這樣的情況的時候所以我發現數位足跡很重要通信紀錄很重要可是"},{"start":369.139,"end":384.273,"text":"在其他有很多的委員本來都提到了相關的部分可是在這一次修法當中都沒有提我在想可能就是你剛剛提到說想要二階段修法的時候所以這個部分可能都沒有排到今天的一個修法版本當中"},{"start":384.973,"end":405.188,"text":"對 因為跟委員報告 我們是期盼 因為其實未來真正要對話是長射機關努力機關 而不是籌備處 我知道各個委員都期盼最後各支法還是要做很多大的修正所以我們現在的目標是 當然趕快先把這個機關籌設 必要配套各支法這個第一階段先通過"},{"start":406.469,"end":428.167,"text":"然後二階段的這個修法內容所以你的意思是說你的責任就是就把這個委員會籌設起來之後修法的部分就是以後人家的事情是這個意思嗎我們現在籌備處在還沒有也同時在做嘛對不對所以我認為其實很多委員的版本當中都有提到了一個數位主機跟通訊記錄這相關的問題我覺得是非常重要的"},{"start":431.929,"end":459.406,"text":"所以我們也希望就是現在能夠做的就馬上去做不要等到推到第二階段不會這樣子嘛第二階段的工作我們現在已經在開始進行那我另外要特別提到因為經濟部不斷的在推AI這部分那確實也非常的蓬勃那AI這邊可能會牽涉到的一些個資的一些問題"},{"start":461.69,"end":488.99,"text":"我們這邊要怎麼處理打算要在什麼時候的時候能夠把這個部分把它處理好好 當然這邊有一個重要的就所謂的人工智慧基本法也同時之內進行人工智慧基本法裡面很重要就是個資保護是現在在規劃的一個方向有關於涉及到人工智慧的個資保護是要由未來的這個個人資料保護委員會"},{"start":490.571,"end":508.411,"text":"那您剛有提到我剛聽到你在回答另外一個委員提到說這個部分如果牽涉到公司他如果沒有在台灣落地的時候我們要怎麼處理因為你剛有特別提到公司有沒有落地在台灣很關鍵對於我們各自的保障能不能真正的保障到那我們這個部分我們要怎麼去做"},{"start":509.191,"end":528.949,"text":"對 當然就是下一階段在處理我們剛才說管轄權的部分要把它明確出來那指定落地現在已經有一個不錯的經驗在那個炸打的這個條例裡面它是採用指定你落地的方法那我們覺得這是一個很好的一個立法的法治經驗我們在剛剛所說的二階段這部分我們會把它參酌進來是"},{"start":530.85,"end":555.781,"text":"那我在想說二階段這邊希望該保障各自的部分我們趕快做能夠做就做不要把很多的事情都推到了二階段之後我覺得這樣其實是不適合的我們繼續希望就是說我們繼續做做到說他成立之後把我們這個任務型機關他會裁測相關的業務會移波到那邊在這之前我們能做的還是要繼續進行"},{"start":557.34,"end":574.586,"text":"最後我要特別提到因為這次願滿當中的時候它對於非公務機關的對個資保障如果沒有落實的時候會罰則而且範圍擴大可是對於公務機關的部分一樣沒有任何的罰則那這個部分我們要怎麼處理"},{"start":576.038,"end":591.306,"text":"跟委員報告就是我們現在的規定還是內部的這個懲戒懲處這個機制我們還是有把他補進來那公務機關的一個處方也參照我們最近在看外國的立法尤其是英國他們就是經驗之下他們發覺"},{"start":593.027,"end":611.147,"text":"不是說處罰公務機關直接就可以產生很多的一個廣泛的效應因為公務機關就這樣你處罰他他還是會去進行徵送所以變成耗費很多時間在進行徵送所以英國最近他們也在考量說這個處罰公務機關這件事情到底他的實際性有到多高"},{"start":611.607,"end":628.613,"text":"OK 那這部分還是得要去處理因為當我們這次修法的時候針對非公務機關的處罰是提高的狀態大幅提高的狀態然後我們對於之前2300萬筆護證資料外洩的事情到現在感覺也都沒有任何的一個懲處"},{"start":630.074,"end":652.214,"text":"那感覺好像就是公務機關如果說洩漏個資的時候好像也都無所謂那我覺得這樣其實是有問題的那我們也希望主任在這個部分的時候當我們要成立個資會的時候這個機制我們現在已經把它放進來在上次你也知道委員有就教我們所以我們就把委員的這個希望說對於人員的懲戒懲處要放進來所以我們這次修法有把它先放進來"},{"start":653.001,"end":666.288,"text":"OK好那這個部分的時候我們也希望能夠好好去落實然後對於我們個資的部分不只是只要求非公務機關我們公務機關也能夠給就是台灣的個資做最好的一個保障好不好是是是謝謝委員支持好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":362,"blocks":[["鄭委員正鈐：（10時3分）謝謝主席，我想請個資保護委員會籌備處的李世德主任。"],["主席：請李主任。"],["李主任世德：鄭委員早。"],["鄭委員正鈐：李主任早。憲法法庭在111年憲判當中有特別提到臺灣健保資料庫的運用有部分違憲，而且要求三年內要改善，這次行政院提出了院版的個資法修法，應該跟這有很密切的關係，應該是這樣吧？"],["李主任世德：跟委員報告，111年當時的憲判字第13號有主文二跟主文三、四，三跟四目前是由衛福部正在草擬一個很重要的衛福專法。"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解。"],["李主任世德：二的這一塊當然是獨立進行，但是等到個人資料保護委員會未來成立之後，對於健保的衛生福利專法在運作過程中，因為畢竟它也是一個公務機關，個人資料保護委員會還是要去監督它對於這一個專法的……"],["鄭委員正鈐：好，理解，因為當時憲判當中提到兩個，第一個是要成立一個獨立的監督機制，因為不夠，所以要有一個獨立監督機制，另外就是對於個人退出權的部分，個資會目前正在積極籌備當中，我知道組織法也送到司法及法制委員會了，請問有沒有預計大概什麼時候這個個資會能夠順利成立？你這邊有沒有具體抓一個時間點？"],["李主任世德：我們當然期盼在這個會期能夠審議通過……"],["鄭委員正鈐：這個會期嘛？"],["李主任世德：但是因為審議通過之後，未來還有一段時間，通過之後的法還要再去執行。"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解，所以你希望這個會期這個法通過之後就可以開始成立，對不對？"],["李主任世德：就開始去規劃，因為行政院會再去指定修正過後的個資法施行時間，我們希望把這個時間縮得愈短愈好。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，理解。憲判當中特別提到退出權的問題，健保署很清楚地提到該署的退出權大概8月份可以實施，對不對？具體時間點是這樣子，是不是？"],["李主任世德：是不是衛福部要先做說明？因為這是他們專法裡面規劃的。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK。透過麥克風講，好不好？"],["林科長秋碧：報告委員，依照憲法判決主文第四項的說法，不管專法有沒有通過，基於退出權，民眾都可以向健保署去申請。我們健保署已經有在做相關的規劃，未來不管健保資料管理條例能不能在這個會期通過，健保署都會對外宣布有關健保資料申請退出的機制是怎麼樣施行。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，簡單講，你剛才提到不管專法有沒有過，其實民眾都可以去要求退出權，對不對？"],["林科長秋碧：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：我想特別請教一下李主任，請衛福部的代表繼續留下來。其實跟個資相關的部分，包括國健署的癌症登記、社會安全網的個資，包括依戶籍法、統計法、精神衛生法等等其他法律，請問李主委，民眾是不是一樣有退出權可以使用？"],["李主任世德：跟委員報告，目前依111年憲判字第13號的判決，退出權的機制現在是先課責於衛福專法，就是健保資料庫這些專法……"],["鄭委員正鈐：剛剛衛福部有提到不管專法有沒有過，現在民眾都可以去要求退出權。"],["李主任世德：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：按照這樣的原則，像其他部會只要牽涉到個資的部分，民眾是不是也能夠去行使退出權？"],["李主任世德：因為憲判的退出權現在是先鎖定那個資料庫，所以沒有叫個資法要去訂一個退出權……"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，我們希望個資會針對這部分趕快去處理。你剛剛在回答其他委員的時候，我有聽到一個點，就是你希望按照兩階段修法。坦白說，我有特別注意到召委原本排的議程是院版加上11個委員的版本，結果現在只剩下院版加3個委員的版本，顯然應該是你這邊特別去拜託把跟這次行政院院版沒有關係的法案都先不排入，是這樣子的情況嗎？"],["李主任世德：跟委員報告，排案是召委的權利，但是以目前規劃的方式，本來我們就是兩階段，還有其他委員的一些提案，我們當然是希望……目前第二階段我們還持續在籌備，還是會研議，也沒有要等到個人資料保護會成立之後才開始去接手，我們希望它趕快成立，讓下一階段的接手能夠無縫接軌，包括剛剛委員說的……"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，比方在原本這11個委員版本當中，我看到家扶中心最近有一個民調出來，就是臺灣接觸網路的年紀愈來愈小，比例愈來愈高，個資曝光的風險確實也愈來愈高，針對這樣的情況，我發現數位足跡很重要、通信紀錄很重要，其他有很多委員本來都提到相關的部分，可是在這次的修法當中都沒有提，我在想可能就是你剛才提到想要二階段修法，所以這個部分可能都沒有排今天的修法版本當中。"],["李主任世德：對，跟委員報告，我們是期盼，因為未來真正要對話的是那個常設的獨立機關，而不是籌備處。我知道各個委員都期盼最後個資法還是要做大的修正，所以我們現在的目標是趕快先把這個機關籌設，其必要配套、個資法修正等第一階段先通過，二階段的修法內容……"],["鄭委員正鈐：所以你的意思是你的責任就是把這個委員會籌設起來之後，修法的部分就是以後人家的事情，你是這個意思嗎？"],["李主任世德：不會、不會，現在我們籌備處在還沒有……"],["鄭委員正鈐：也同時在做，對不對？"],["李主任世德：同時在做。"],["鄭委員正鈐：我認為很多委員的版本當中都有提到數位足跡跟通信紀錄相關的問題，我覺得這非常重要……"],["李主任世德：是，這很重要，這很重要。"],["鄭委員正鈐：包括許宇甄委員也特別提到……"],["李主任世德：沒有錯。"],["鄭委員正鈐：賴瑞隆委員、黃捷委員他們都提到這部分。"],["李主任世德：對。"],["鄭委員正鈐：所以我們也希望現在能夠做的就馬上去做，不要等到、推到第二階段才……"],["李主任世德：不會、不會。"],["鄭委員正鈐：不會這樣子嘛？"],["李主任世德：第二階段的工作我們現在已經在開始進行了。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，好。我另外要特別提到，經濟部不斷地在推AI的部分，確實也非常地蓬勃，AI的部分可能會牽涉到一些個資的問題，我們要怎麼處理？打算在什麼時候能夠把這個部分處理好？"],["李主任世德：這邊有一個重要的人工智慧基本法也同時正在進行，人工智慧基本法裡面很重要的就是個資保護，現在規劃的方向是，涉及到人工智慧的個資保護要由未來的個人資料保護委員會去主責推動。"],["鄭委員正鈐：我剛剛聽到你在回答另外一位委員時提到，這個部分如果牽涉到公司沒有在臺灣落地的時候，我們要怎麼處理？你剛剛有特別提到，公司有沒有落地在臺灣對於我們的個資能不能真正地保障到很關鍵，這個部分我們要怎麼去做？"],["李主任世德：下一階段在處理剛才說的管轄權的部分要明確出來，指定落地現在已經有一個不錯的經驗在詐打的條例裡面，它是採用指定落地的方法，我們覺得這是一個很好的立法法制經驗，我們在剛剛所說的二階段部分會參酌進來。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK。我在想二階段針對希望該保障個資的部分趕快做，能夠做就做，不要把很多的事情都推到了二階段之後，我覺得這樣其實是不適合的。"],["李主任世德：不會、不會，我們希望我們繼續做，做到它成立之後，我們這個任務型機關會裁撤，相關的業務會移撥到那邊，在這之前我們能做的還是要繼續進行。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK。最後我要特別提到，這次院版當中對於非公務機關的個資保障如果沒有落實會有罰則，而且範圍擴大，可是對於公務機關的部分一樣沒有任何的罰則，這個部分我們要怎麼處理？"],["李主任世德：跟委員報告，我們現在的規定是，對於內部的懲戒、懲處機制還是有補進來，公務機關的處罰也參酌我們最近在看其他外國的立法例，尤其是英國，他們從經驗中發覺不是處罰公務機關，就可以直接產生很多廣泛的效應，因為公務機關被處罰之後，還是會去進行爭訟，變成耗費很多時間在進行爭訟，所以英國最近也在考量處罰公務機關這件事情到底實益性有多高，最後又變成法律爭訟。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，這部分還是得去處理，因為當我們這次修法的時候，針對非公務機關的處罰是提高的狀態，而且是大幅提高的狀態，但是我們之前2,300萬筆戶政資料外洩的事情到現在也都沒有任何的懲處，感覺公務機關如果洩漏個資的時候好像也都無所謂，我覺得這樣其實是有問題的，我們也希望主任在這個部分，當我們要成立個資會的時候……"],["李主任世德：有，有關個資會這個機制，我們現在已經放進來，上次委員有就教我們，委員希望對於人員的懲戒、懲處要放進來，所以我們這次修法有先放進來。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，好。這個部分我們也希望能夠好好去落實，對於個資的部分，不只是要求非公務機關，對於公務機關也要讓臺灣的個資做最好的保障，好不好？"],["李主任世德：是，謝謝委員支持。"],["鄭委員正鈐：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝鄭正鈐委員。","下一位請鄭天財委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":90,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-12","speakers":["蔡易餘","林岱樺","邱議瑩","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","呂玉玲","謝衣鳯","張嘉郡","陳超明"],"page_start":47,"meetingDate":["2025-05-08"],"gazette_id":"1144701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、行政院函請審議「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案；二、本院委員王美惠等18\n人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草案」案；三、本院委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「個人資料保\n護法部分條文修正草案」案；四、本院委員李坤城等16人擬具「個人資料保護法部分條文修正草\n案」案（本日僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"1144701_00002"}}}