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\"提\", \"start\": 588.62, \"end\": 588.74, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 588.74, \"end\": 589.02, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 589.02, \"end\": 589.34, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 589.34, \"end\": 589.36, \"score\": 0.108}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,370 --> 00:00:01,735\n麻煩請次長沒關係慢慢喝\n\n2\n00:00:11,457 --> 00:00:29,987\n市長好市長今天我們特別在外交部的議題上面可是剛剛也有委員關切到就是包括2758號決議的部分其實它對我們來說影響是非常大\n\n3\n00:00:31,368 --> 00:00:59,700\n看到索馬利亞民航局在4月底的時候他通告索馬利亞政府根據聯合國大會第2758號決議堅持一個中國的原則通知所有航空公司的營運商還有就是所有由台灣或其附屬機構所簽發的護照跟相關的旅行證件他都不得再用於進出及過境索馬利亞的聯邦\n\n4\n00:01:00,734 --> 00:01:16,049\n也就是說他禁止持台灣護照入境或過境外交部對此事其實已經有提出強烈譴責而且也要求立即撤銷禁令也呼籲我們國人暫務前往索馬利亞跟索馬利蘭\n\n5\n00:01:17,831 --> 00:01:47,012\n那就我們跟索馬利蘭在2020年7月的時候我們已經有互設代表處然後其實在這過程當中我們也捐助了一些糧食還有其他的可能一些資源我們有協助興建台灣大道那現在發生這樣的事情我們目前要怎麼因應除了我們去抗議或者要求他撤銷禁令那他如果不願意呢那我們目前住管的人員有多少\n\n6\n00:01:50,491 --> 00:02:17,917\n你回答一下委員好我們目前在那邊住管人員包含我們技術團跟那個對在索馬利蘭原則大概20位左右包含技術團及醫療團的人員那他們現在可以自由進出嗎他目前的話呢因為他目前都還沒有進出的這樣子需求那我們因為這個事情是在發生在4月底的時候目前跟我們一些理念相應國家還有索馬利蘭政府我們共同的一直在解決這個問題希望可以進出有一個比較好的一個結果\n\n7\n00:02:18,357 --> 00:02:36,176\n因為他現在限制我們使用我們的護照那會是很大的麻煩而且我們也互設了這樣子的代表處所以他今天這樣的作為他雖然現在還沒有立即可能要離開這樣子的需求可是他遲早一定要回來那就這個部分我們希望可以有更積極的作為\n\n8\n00:02:38,038 --> 00:02:58,074\n要怎麼樣去維護他們的權益跟安全這個可能因為也剛發生可是我們特別提到這個部分我們也希望就這個我們接下來也一起討論好了因為近期如果有什麼樣的進展再提供給我們我知道美方可能也有一些動作可是能夠達到什麼樣的效果我們不知道\n\n9\n00:03:00,151 --> 00:03:20,449\n我們相信應該是會有效果的那麼我們當然也跟這個索馬利亞表達強烈的一個抗議尤其是遺憾的是他們錯誤的去扭曲解釋2758號決議文然後用這樣以為理由來禁止我們持有我國的護照的這個民眾經過這個索馬利亞進出索馬利蘭那這是遺憾的事\n\n10\n00:03:25,954 --> 00:03:44,570\n對剛剛提到這樣子因為我們在國內我們怎麼樣去譴責或者我們怎麼樣去訴求其實都沒有用因為事實上它不斷的在發生就像之前南非我們本來也是設代表處後來把它降成經濟文化辦事處這個也是因為他們大概也是以2758號決議這個來做決定的另外有很多我們參與國際組織的障礙\n\n11\n00:03:52,316 --> 00:03:59,200\n大概也都是因為這樣包括國際刑警組織過去我們也曾經以中華民國的名義其實曾經是正式會員可是後來被排除了那還有國際民航組織還有世界衛生組織等等我們至少在WHA其實我們也曾經還是觀察員可是現在什麼都不是所以在我們就這些發生的事情\n\n12\n00:04:18,511 --> 00:04:43,648\n顯然大家沒有辦法去同時去認可2758號決議的這個部分所以就這個發生的這些我只是舉例那其他還有更多因為我們面對國際非常多的國家大概都是以這個他們自己國家的解釋我們沒有辦法去改變那對我們來說就會線索越來越大影響越來越深而且我們可能也會受到更多的一些傷害\n\n13\n00:04:45,189 --> 00:04:53,131\n那在4月底的時候美國在聯合國安理會會議中他就2758號決議美中在對此有激烈的辯論代表這個議題其實在安理會至少被實質討論而不是只有在每年的聯合國大會裡面靠友邦或者友好國家的發言支持而已這可能也是開啟我們能否參與國際組織實質的第一步這是其中一個另外\n\n14\n00:05:14,417 --> 00:05:35,896\n在去年5月巴勒斯坦在聯合國會議會員的聯合國會員議題上面也被聯合國大會以壓倒性的多數通過決議雖然最後認定他符合聯合國憲章應該是要被接納雖然最後這個案子被安理會否決可是至少巴勒斯坦\n\n15\n00:05:37,297 --> 00:05:45,243\n獲得了國際上普遍的一個支持跟認定這是他們努力的結果我們很希望如果我們可以得到國際的認可這個還有很多要努力的方向就我們剛剛提到的一個就美國在安理會的這個部分他們做了實質的討論那我們不要每年都是只計算多少友邦幫我們發言然後我們不斷的在原地踏步另外還有一個就是\n\n16\n00:06:05,958 --> 00:06:09,381\n日前美國眾議院他通過台灣國際團結法案那在這一個部分他強調2758號決議沒有處理台灣或台灣人民在聯合國或相關組織的代表權問題他們現在主張是這樣可是這個在\n\n17\n00:06:25,414 --> 00:06:44,602\n過去2023年吧他們也曾經通過對不對後來他沒有成為正式的法案是為什麼因為既然美國這麼支持我們眾議院也通過了可是他也沒有成為正式的一個可以執行的法案那時候是為什麼那你現在又提出來他不會面對同樣的問題嗎那我們請北美斯來回答一下\n\n18\n00:06:51,160 --> 00:07:09,247\n美國國會的立法它一個法案必須要是從參院跟兩院都要通過要都有生效2023年你講的那個它應該是一個決議案啦決議案基本上是沒有法律拘束力的所以其實那個並不是說有沒有生效的問題\n\n19\n00:07:10,427 --> 00:07:13,508\n因為就是他提出來他們也希望也是一樣通過嘛那就跟現在一樣那當然還需要參議院然後最後還要總統他支持通過他可能才可以執行可是如果我們一直重複在這些動作剛剛我們講的其實2758號對我們所有的線索越來越嚴重\n\n20\n00:07:29,955 --> 00:07:55,575\n包括我們在民航組織裡面其實我們現在很多航空公司已經把我們的名稱全部都改掉了越來越矮化可是我們也拿他們一點辦法都沒有包括過去其實甚至在川普總統第一任的時候他對於中方這樣的要求其實他是有強力去抗衡的可是現在還是全部都被改掉了那我們有什麼樣因應的做法\n\n21\n00:07:56,115 --> 00:08:16,637\n因為他都改成中國台北我們還是一樣結合理念也跟委員報告像剛才您所說的這個眾院通過了一個non-binding的這個非具有強制力的這樣的一個決議文之後我們也看到了那個雖然他沒有變成一個法案他本來就是設計是這個樣子但重點是在於是說我們看到在聯合國\n\n22\n00:08:17,578 --> 00:08:40,772\n那個上面的時候美國的代表美國的這個政治參事就像您這上面所說的這個吳廷他也很正式的來在上面表達美國的一個立場然後在美國的行政單位也多次的表達他們對2758他們的詮釋他們的立場其實是跟眾院參院所提出來的決議文是接近的所以這是我們的努力的那還有更多的國家\n\n23\n00:08:41,172 --> 00:08:42,613\n因為時間的關係我覺得不用用文字上的敘述我們要的是實質的結果就像我們為什麼特別提巴勒斯坦來做一個對照其實主要就是這樣因為你今天如果已經有\n\n24\n00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:23,407\n這樣子的一個方向那可以做到什麼樣的程度因為你要受到國際普遍的認同我們現在是越來越限縮它不像是有被更認可的一個現象發生所以這是我們現在困境這也是外交部要努力的部分不然我們編了那麼多的預算我想在重要的這個部分其實它是沒有被山東預算這個部分如果要把它做到更好這個才是一個好的成績好不好\n\n25\n00:09:25,347 --> 00:09:49,360\n謝謝委員的鼓勵這也是我們外交部的後續的進度剛好我們講的蘇瑪麗蘭這個部分可能提供一些書面比如說現在應該要怎麼做那會有什麼樣的一個因應的措施我們現在在那裡的人員包括技術團還有我們的住在的一些相關的人員他們的處置方式提供書面資料謝謝謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n370\t1735\t麻煩請次長沒關係慢慢喝\n11457\t29987\t市長好市長今天我們特別在外交部的議題上面可是剛剛也有委員關切到就是包括2758號決議的部分其實它對我們來說影響是非常大\n31368\t59700\t看到索馬利亞民航局在4月底的時候他通告索馬利亞政府根據聯合國大會第2758號決議堅持一個中國的原則通知所有航空公司的營運商還有就是所有由台灣或其附屬機構所簽發的護照跟相關的旅行證件他都不得再用於進出及過境索馬利亞的聯邦\n60734\t76049\t也就是說他禁止持台灣護照入境或過境外交部對此事其實已經有提出強烈譴責而且也要求立即撤銷禁令也呼籲我們國人暫務前往索馬利亞跟索馬利蘭\n77831\t107012\t那就我們跟索馬利蘭在2020年7月的時候我們已經有互設代表處然後其實在這過程當中我們也捐助了一些糧食還有其他的可能一些資源我們有協助興建台灣大道那現在發生這樣的事情我們目前要怎麼因應除了我們去抗議或者要求他撤銷禁令那他如果不願意呢那我們目前住管的人員有多少\n110491\t137917\t你回答一下委員好我們目前在那邊住管人員包含我們技術團跟那個對在索馬利蘭原則大概20位左右包含技術團及醫療團的人員那他們現在可以自由進出嗎他目前的話呢因為他目前都還沒有進出的這樣子需求那我們因為這個事情是在發生在4月底的時候目前跟我們一些理念相應國家還有索馬利蘭政府我們共同的一直在解決這個問題希望可以進出有一個比較好的一個結果\n138357\t156176\t因為他現在限制我們使用我們的護照那會是很大的麻煩而且我們也互設了這樣子的代表處所以他今天這樣的作為他雖然現在還沒有立即可能要離開這樣子的需求可是他遲早一定要回來那就這個部分我們希望可以有更積極的作為\n158038\t178074\t要怎麼樣去維護他們的權益跟安全這個可能因為也剛發生可是我們特別提到這個部分我們也希望就這個我們接下來也一起討論好了因為近期如果有什麼樣的進展再提供給我們我知道美方可能也有一些動作可是能夠達到什麼樣的效果我們不知道\n180151\t200449\t我們相信應該是會有效果的那麼我們當然也跟這個索馬利亞表達強烈的一個抗議尤其是遺憾的是他們錯誤的去扭曲解釋2758號決議文然後用這樣以為理由來禁止我們持有我國的護照的這個民眾經過這個索馬利亞進出索馬利蘭那這是遺憾的事\n205954\t224570\t對 剛剛提到這樣子因為我們在國內我們怎麼樣去譴責或者我們怎麼樣去訴求其實都沒有用因為事實上它不斷的在發生就像之前南非我們本來也是設代表處後來把它降成經濟文化辦事處這個也是因為他們大概也是以2758號決議這個來做決定的另外有很多我們參與國際組織的障礙\n232316\t239200\t大概也都是因為這樣包括國際刑警組織過去我們也曾經以中華民國的名義其實曾經是正式會員可是後來被排除了那還有國際民航組織還有世界衛生組織等等我們至少在WHA其實我們也曾經還是觀察員可是現在什麼都不是所以在我們就這些發生的事情\n258511\t283648\t顯然大家沒有辦法去同時去認可2758號決議的這個部分所以就這個發生的這些我只是舉例那其他還有更多因為我們面對國際非常多的國家大概都是以這個他們自己國家的解釋我們沒有辦法去改變那對我們來說就會線索越來越大影響越來越深而且我們可能也會受到更多的一些傷害\n285189\t293131\t那在4月底的時候美國在聯合國安理會會議中他就2758號決議美中在對此有激烈的辯論代表這個議題其實在安理會至少被實質討論而不是只有在每年的聯合國大會裡面靠友邦或者友好國家的發言支持而已這可能也是開啟我們能否參與國際組織實質的第一步這是其中一個另外\n314417\t335896\t在去年5月巴勒斯坦在聯合國會議會員的聯合國會員議題上面也被聯合國大會以壓倒性的多數通過決議雖然最後認定他符合聯合國憲章應該是要被接納雖然最後這個案子被安理會否決可是至少巴勒斯坦\n337297\t345243\t獲得了國際上普遍的一個支持跟認定這是他們努力的結果我們很希望如果我們可以得到國際的認可這個還有很多要努力的方向就我們剛剛提到的一個就美國在安理會的這個部分他們做了實質的討論那我們不要每年都是只計算多少友邦幫我們發言然後我們不斷的在原地踏步另外還有一個就是\n365958\t369381\t日前美國眾議院他通過台灣國際團結法案那在這一個部分他強調2758號決議沒有處理台灣或台灣人民在聯合國或相關組織的代表權問題他們現在主張是這樣可是這個在\n385414\t404602\t過去2023年吧他們也曾經通過對不對後來他沒有成為正式的法案是為什麼因為既然美國這麼支持我們眾議院也通過了可是他也沒有成為正式的一個可以執行的法案那時候是為什麼那你現在又提出來他不會面對同樣的問題嗎那我們請北美斯來回答一下\n411160\t429247\t美國國會的立法 它一個法案必須要是從參院跟兩院都要通過 要都有生效2023年你講的那個 它應該是一個決議案啦決議案基本上是沒有法律拘束力的所以其實那個並不是說有沒有生效的問題\n430427\t433508\t因為就是他提出來他們也希望也是一樣通過嘛那就跟現在一樣那當然還需要參議院然後最後還要總統他支持通過他可能才可以執行可是如果我們一直重複在這些動作剛剛我們講的其實2758號對我們所有的線索越來越嚴重\n449955\t475575\t包括我們在民航組織裡面其實我們現在很多航空公司已經把我們的名稱全部都改掉了越來越矮化可是我們也拿他們一點辦法都沒有包括過去其實甚至在川普總統第一任的時候他對於中方這樣的要求其實他是有強力去抗衡的可是現在還是全部都被改掉了那我們有什麼樣因應的做法\n476115\t496637\t因為他都改成中國台北我們還是一樣結合理念也跟委員報告像剛才您所說的這個眾院通過了一個non-binding的這個非具有強制力的這樣的一個決議文之後我們也看到了那個雖然他沒有變成一個法案他本來就是設計是這個樣子但重點是在於是說我們看到在聯合國\n497578\t520772\t那個上面的時候美國的代表美國的這個政治參事就像您這上面所說的這個吳廷他也很正式的來在上面表達美國的一個立場然後在美國的行政單位也多次的表達他們對2758他們的詮釋他們的立場其實是跟眾院參院所提出來的決議文是接近的所以這是我們的努力的那還有更多的國家\n521172\t522613\t因為時間的關係我覺得不用用文字上的敘述我們要的是實質的結果就像我們為什麼特別提巴勒斯坦來做一個對照其實主要就是這樣因為你今天如果已經有\n537679\t563407\t這樣子的一個方向那可以做到什麼樣的程度因為你要受到國際普遍的認同我們現在是越來越限縮它不像是有被更認可的一個現象發生所以這是我們現在困境這也是外交部要努力的部分不然我們編了那麼多的預算我想在重要的這個部分其實它是沒有被山東預算這個部分如果要把它做到更好這個才是一個好的成績好不好\n565347\t589360\t謝謝委員的鼓勵這也是我們外交部的後續的進度剛好我們講的蘇瑪麗蘭這個部分可能提供一些書面比如說現在應該要怎麼做那會有什麼樣的一個因應的措施我們現在在那裡的人員包括技術團還有我們的住在的一些相關的人員他們的處置方式提供書面資料謝謝謝謝\n","txt":"麻煩請次長沒關係慢慢喝\n市長好市長今天我們特別在外交部的議題上面可是剛剛也有委員關切到就是包括2758號決議的部分其實它對我們來說影響是非常大\n看到索馬利亞民航局在4月底的時候他通告索馬利亞政府根據聯合國大會第2758號決議堅持一個中國的原則通知所有航空公司的營運商還有就是所有由台灣或其附屬機構所簽發的護照跟相關的旅行證件他都不得再用於進出及過境索馬利亞的聯邦\n也就是說他禁止持台灣護照入境或過境外交部對此事其實已經有提出強烈譴責而且也要求立即撤銷禁令也呼籲我們國人暫務前往索馬利亞跟索馬利蘭\n那就我們跟索馬利蘭在2020年7月的時候我們已經有互設代表處然後其實在這過程當中我們也捐助了一些糧食還有其他的可能一些資源我們有協助興建台灣大道那現在發生這樣的事情我們目前要怎麼因應除了我們去抗議或者要求他撤銷禁令那他如果不願意呢那我們目前住管的人員有多少\n你回答一下委員好我們目前在那邊住管人員包含我們技術團跟那個對在索馬利蘭原則大概20位左右包含技術團及醫療團的人員那他們現在可以自由進出嗎他目前的話呢因為他目前都還沒有進出的這樣子需求那我們因為這個事情是在發生在4月底的時候目前跟我們一些理念相應國家還有索馬利蘭政府我們共同的一直在解決這個問題希望可以進出有一個比較好的一個結果\n因為他現在限制我們使用我們的護照那會是很大的麻煩而且我們也互設了這樣子的代表處所以他今天這樣的作為他雖然現在還沒有立即可能要離開這樣子的需求可是他遲早一定要回來那就這個部分我們希望可以有更積極的作為\n要怎麼樣去維護他們的權益跟安全這個可能因為也剛發生可是我們特別提到這個部分我們也希望就這個我們接下來也一起討論好了因為近期如果有什麼樣的進展再提供給我們我知道美方可能也有一些動作可是能夠達到什麼樣的效果我們不知道\n我們相信應該是會有效果的那麼我們當然也跟這個索馬利亞表達強烈的一個抗議尤其是遺憾的是他們錯誤的去扭曲解釋2758號決議文然後用這樣以為理由來禁止我們持有我國的護照的這個民眾經過這個索馬利亞進出索馬利蘭那這是遺憾的事\n對 剛剛提到這樣子因為我們在國內我們怎麼樣去譴責或者我們怎麼樣去訴求其實都沒有用因為事實上它不斷的在發生就像之前南非我們本來也是設代表處後來把它降成經濟文化辦事處這個也是因為他們大概也是以2758號決議這個來做決定的另外有很多我們參與國際組織的障礙\n大概也都是因為這樣包括國際刑警組織過去我們也曾經以中華民國的名義其實曾經是正式會員可是後來被排除了那還有國際民航組織還有世界衛生組織等等我們至少在WHA其實我們也曾經還是觀察員可是現在什麼都不是所以在我們就這些發生的事情\n顯然大家沒有辦法去同時去認可2758號決議的這個部分所以就這個發生的這些我只是舉例那其他還有更多因為我們面對國際非常多的國家大概都是以這個他們自己國家的解釋我們沒有辦法去改變那對我們來說就會線索越來越大影響越來越深而且我們可能也會受到更多的一些傷害\n那在4月底的時候美國在聯合國安理會會議中他就2758號決議美中在對此有激烈的辯論代表這個議題其實在安理會至少被實質討論而不是只有在每年的聯合國大會裡面靠友邦或者友好國家的發言支持而已這可能也是開啟我們能否參與國際組織實質的第一步這是其中一個另外\n在去年5月巴勒斯坦在聯合國會議會員的聯合國會員議題上面也被聯合國大會以壓倒性的多數通過決議雖然最後認定他符合聯合國憲章應該是要被接納雖然最後這個案子被安理會否決可是至少巴勒斯坦\n獲得了國際上普遍的一個支持跟認定這是他們努力的結果我們很希望如果我們可以得到國際的認可這個還有很多要努力的方向就我們剛剛提到的一個就美國在安理會的這個部分他們做了實質的討論那我們不要每年都是只計算多少友邦幫我們發言然後我們不斷的在原地踏步另外還有一個就是\n日前美國眾議院他通過台灣國際團結法案那在這一個部分他強調2758號決議沒有處理台灣或台灣人民在聯合國或相關組織的代表權問題他們現在主張是這樣可是這個在\n過去2023年吧他們也曾經通過對不對後來他沒有成為正式的法案是為什麼因為既然美國這麼支持我們眾議院也通過了可是他也沒有成為正式的一個可以執行的法案那時候是為什麼那你現在又提出來他不會面對同樣的問題嗎那我們請北美斯來回答一下\n美國國會的立法 它一個法案必須要是從參院跟兩院都要通過 要都有生效2023年你講的那個 它應該是一個決議案啦決議案基本上是沒有法律拘束力的所以其實那個並不是說有沒有生效的問題\n因為就是他提出來他們也希望也是一樣通過嘛那就跟現在一樣那當然還需要參議院然後最後還要總統他支持通過他可能才可以執行可是如果我們一直重複在這些動作剛剛我們講的其實2758號對我們所有的線索越來越嚴重\n包括我們在民航組織裡面其實我們現在很多航空公司已經把我們的名稱全部都改掉了越來越矮化可是我們也拿他們一點辦法都沒有包括過去其實甚至在川普總統第一任的時候他對於中方這樣的要求其實他是有強力去抗衡的可是現在還是全部都被改掉了那我們有什麼樣因應的做法\n因為他都改成中國台北我們還是一樣結合理念也跟委員報告像剛才您所說的這個眾院通過了一個non-binding的這個非具有強制力的這樣的一個決議文之後我們也看到了那個雖然他沒有變成一個法案他本來就是設計是這個樣子但重點是在於是說我們看到在聯合國\n那個上面的時候美國的代表美國的這個政治參事就像您這上面所說的這個吳廷他也很正式的來在上面表達美國的一個立場然後在美國的行政單位也多次的表達他們對2758他們的詮釋他們的立場其實是跟眾院參院所提出來的決議文是接近的所以這是我們的努力的那還有更多的國家\n因為時間的關係我覺得不用用文字上的敘述我們要的是實質的結果就像我們為什麼特別提巴勒斯坦來做一個對照其實主要就是這樣因為你今天如果已經有\n這樣子的一個方向那可以做到什麼樣的程度因為你要受到國際普遍的認同我們現在是越來越限縮它不像是有被更認可的一個現象發生所以這是我們現在困境這也是外交部要努力的部分不然我們編了那麼多的預算我想在重要的這個部分其實它是沒有被山東預算這個部分如果要把它做到更好這個才是一個好的成績好不好\n謝謝委員的鼓勵這也是我們外交部的後續的進度剛好我們講的蘇瑪麗蘭這個部分可能提供一些書面比如說現在應該要怎麼做那會有什麼樣的一個因應的措施我們現在在那裡的人員包括技術團還有我們的住在的一些相關的人員他們的處置方式提供書面資料謝謝謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.370 --> 00:01.735\n麻煩請次長沒關係慢慢喝\n\n00:11.457 --> 00:29.987\n市長好市長今天我們特別在外交部的議題上面可是剛剛也有委員關切到就是包括2758號決議的部分其實它對我們來說影響是非常大\n\n00:31.368 --> 00:59.700\n看到索馬利亞民航局在4月底的時候他通告索馬利亞政府根據聯合國大會第2758號決議堅持一個中國的原則通知所有航空公司的營運商還有就是所有由台灣或其附屬機構所簽發的護照跟相關的旅行證件他都不得再用於進出及過境索馬利亞的聯邦\n\n01:00.734 --> 01:16.049\n也就是說他禁止持台灣護照入境或過境外交部對此事其實已經有提出強烈譴責而且也要求立即撤銷禁令也呼籲我們國人暫務前往索馬利亞跟索馬利蘭\n\n01:17.831 --> 01:47.012\n那就我們跟索馬利蘭在2020年7月的時候我們已經有互設代表處然後其實在這過程當中我們也捐助了一些糧食還有其他的可能一些資源我們有協助興建台灣大道那現在發生這樣的事情我們目前要怎麼因應除了我們去抗議或者要求他撤銷禁令那他如果不願意呢那我們目前住管的人員有多少\n\n01:50.491 --> 02:17.917\n你回答一下委員好我們目前在那邊住管人員包含我們技術團跟那個對在索馬利蘭原則大概20位左右包含技術團及醫療團的人員那他們現在可以自由進出嗎他目前的話呢因為他目前都還沒有進出的這樣子需求那我們因為這個事情是在發生在4月底的時候目前跟我們一些理念相應國家還有索馬利蘭政府我們共同的一直在解決這個問題希望可以進出有一個比較好的一個結果\n\n02:18.357 --> 02:36.176\n因為他現在限制我們使用我們的護照那會是很大的麻煩而且我們也互設了這樣子的代表處所以他今天這樣的作為他雖然現在還沒有立即可能要離開這樣子的需求可是他遲早一定要回來那就這個部分我們希望可以有更積極的作為\n\n02:38.038 --> 02:58.074\n要怎麼樣去維護他們的權益跟安全這個可能因為也剛發生可是我們特別提到這個部分我們也希望就這個我們接下來也一起討論好了因為近期如果有什麼樣的進展再提供給我們我知道美方可能也有一些動作可是能夠達到什麼樣的效果我們不知道\n\n03:00.151 --> 03:20.449\n我們相信應該是會有效果的那麼我們當然也跟這個索馬利亞表達強烈的一個抗議尤其是遺憾的是他們錯誤的去扭曲解釋2758號決議文然後用這樣以為理由來禁止我們持有我國的護照的這個民眾經過這個索馬利亞進出索馬利蘭那這是遺憾的事\n\n03:25.954 --> 03:44.570\n對剛剛提到這樣子因為我們在國內我們怎麼樣去譴責或者我們怎麼樣去訴求其實都沒有用因為事實上它不斷的在發生就像之前南非我們本來也是設代表處後來把它降成經濟文化辦事處這個也是因為他們大概也是以2758號決議這個來做決定的另外有很多我們參與國際組織的障礙\n\n03:52.316 --> 03:59.200\n大概也都是因為這樣包括國際刑警組織過去我們也曾經以中華民國的名義其實曾經是正式會員可是後來被排除了那還有國際民航組織還有世界衛生組織等等我們至少在WHA其實我們也曾經還是觀察員可是現在什麼都不是所以在我們就這些發生的事情\n\n04:18.511 --> 04:43.648\n顯然大家沒有辦法去同時去認可2758號決議的這個部分所以就這個發生的這些我只是舉例那其他還有更多因為我們面對國際非常多的國家大概都是以這個他們自己國家的解釋我們沒有辦法去改變那對我們來說就會線索越來越大影響越來越深而且我們可能也會受到更多的一些傷害\n\n04:45.189 --> 04:53.131\n那在4月底的時候美國在聯合國安理會會議中他就2758號決議美中在對此有激烈的辯論代表這個議題其實在安理會至少被實質討論而不是只有在每年的聯合國大會裡面靠友邦或者友好國家的發言支持而已這可能也是開啟我們能否參與國際組織實質的第一步這是其中一個另外\n\n05:14.417 --> 05:35.896\n在去年5月巴勒斯坦在聯合國會議會員的聯合國會員議題上面也被聯合國大會以壓倒性的多數通過決議雖然最後認定他符合聯合國憲章應該是要被接納雖然最後這個案子被安理會否決可是至少巴勒斯坦\n\n05:37.297 --> 05:45.243\n獲得了國際上普遍的一個支持跟認定這是他們努力的結果我們很希望如果我們可以得到國際的認可這個還有很多要努力的方向就我們剛剛提到的一個就美國在安理會的這個部分他們做了實質的討論那我們不要每年都是只計算多少友邦幫我們發言然後我們不斷的在原地踏步另外還有一個就是\n\n06:05.958 --> 06:09.381\n日前美國眾議院他通過台灣國際團結法案那在這一個部分他強調2758號決議沒有處理台灣或台灣人民在聯合國或相關組織的代表權問題他們現在主張是這樣可是這個在\n\n06:25.414 --> 06:44.602\n過去2023年吧他們也曾經通過對不對後來他沒有成為正式的法案是為什麼因為既然美國這麼支持我們眾議院也通過了可是他也沒有成為正式的一個可以執行的法案那時候是為什麼那你現在又提出來他不會面對同樣的問題嗎那我們請北美斯來回答一下\n\n06:51.160 --> 07:09.247\n美國國會的立法它一個法案必須要是從參院跟兩院都要通過要都有生效2023年你講的那個它應該是一個決議案啦決議案基本上是沒有法律拘束力的所以其實那個並不是說有沒有生效的問題\n\n07:10.427 --> 07:13.508\n因為就是他提出來他們也希望也是一樣通過嘛那就跟現在一樣那當然還需要參議院然後最後還要總統他支持通過他可能才可以執行可是如果我們一直重複在這些動作剛剛我們講的其實2758號對我們所有的線索越來越嚴重\n\n07:29.955 --> 07:55.575\n包括我們在民航組織裡面其實我們現在很多航空公司已經把我們的名稱全部都改掉了越來越矮化可是我們也拿他們一點辦法都沒有包括過去其實甚至在川普總統第一任的時候他對於中方這樣的要求其實他是有強力去抗衡的可是現在還是全部都被改掉了那我們有什麼樣因應的做法\n\n07:56.115 --> 08:16.637\n因為他都改成中國台北我們還是一樣結合理念也跟委員報告像剛才您所說的這個眾院通過了一個non-binding的這個非具有強制力的這樣的一個決議文之後我們也看到了那個雖然他沒有變成一個法案他本來就是設計是這個樣子但重點是在於是說我們看到在聯合國\n\n08:17.578 --> 08:40.772\n那個上面的時候美國的代表美國的這個政治參事就像您這上面所說的這個吳廷他也很正式的來在上面表達美國的一個立場然後在美國的行政單位也多次的表達他們對2758他們的詮釋他們的立場其實是跟眾院參院所提出來的決議文是接近的所以這是我們的努力的那還有更多的國家\n\n08:41.172 --> 08:42.613\n因為時間的關係我覺得不用用文字上的敘述我們要的是實質的結果就像我們為什麼特別提巴勒斯坦來做一個對照其實主要就是這樣因為你今天如果已經有\n\n08:57.679 --> 09:23.407\n這樣子的一個方向那可以做到什麼樣的程度因為你要受到國際普遍的認同我們現在是越來越限縮它不像是有被更認可的一個現象發生所以這是我們現在困境這也是外交部要努力的部分不然我們編了那麼多的預算我想在重要的這個部分其實它是沒有被山東預算這個部分如果要把它做到更好這個才是一個好的成績好不好\n\n09:25.347 --> 09:49.360\n謝謝委員的鼓勵這也是我們外交部的後續的進度剛好我們講的蘇瑪麗蘭這個部分可能提供一些書面比如說現在應該要怎麼做那會有什麼樣的一個因應的措施我們現在在那裡的人員包括技術團還有我們的住在的一些相關的人員他們的處置方式提供書面資料謝謝謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.37,"end":1.735,"text":"麻煩請次長沒關係慢慢喝"},{"start":11.457,"end":29.987,"text":"市長好市長今天我們特別在外交部的議題上面可是剛剛也有委員關切到就是包括2758號決議的部分其實它對我們來說影響是非常大"},{"start":31.368,"end":59.7,"text":"看到索馬利亞民航局在4月底的時候他通告索馬利亞政府根據聯合國大會第2758號決議堅持一個中國的原則通知所有航空公司的營運商還有就是所有由台灣或其附屬機構所簽發的護照跟相關的旅行證件他都不得再用於進出及過境索馬利亞的聯邦"},{"start":60.734,"end":76.049,"text":"也就是說他禁止持台灣護照入境或過境外交部對此事其實已經有提出強烈譴責而且也要求立即撤銷禁令也呼籲我們國人暫務前往索馬利亞跟索馬利蘭"},{"start":77.831,"end":107.012,"text":"那就我們跟索馬利蘭在2020年7月的時候我們已經有互設代表處然後其實在這過程當中我們也捐助了一些糧食還有其他的可能一些資源我們有協助興建台灣大道那現在發生這樣的事情我們目前要怎麼因應除了我們去抗議或者要求他撤銷禁令那他如果不願意呢那我們目前住管的人員有多少"},{"start":110.491,"end":137.917,"text":"你回答一下委員好我們目前在那邊住管人員包含我們技術團跟那個對在索馬利蘭原則大概20位左右包含技術團及醫療團的人員那他們現在可以自由進出嗎他目前的話呢因為他目前都還沒有進出的這樣子需求那我們因為這個事情是在發生在4月底的時候目前跟我們一些理念相應國家還有索馬利蘭政府我們共同的一直在解決這個問題希望可以進出有一個比較好的一個結果"},{"start":138.357,"end":156.176,"text":"因為他現在限制我們使用我們的護照那會是很大的麻煩而且我們也互設了這樣子的代表處所以他今天這樣的作為他雖然現在還沒有立即可能要離開這樣子的需求可是他遲早一定要回來那就這個部分我們希望可以有更積極的作為"},{"start":158.038,"end":178.074,"text":"要怎麼樣去維護他們的權益跟安全這個可能因為也剛發生可是我們特別提到這個部分我們也希望就這個我們接下來也一起討論好了因為近期如果有什麼樣的進展再提供給我們我知道美方可能也有一些動作可是能夠達到什麼樣的效果我們不知道"},{"start":180.151,"end":200.449,"text":"我們相信應該是會有效果的那麼我們當然也跟這個索馬利亞表達強烈的一個抗議尤其是遺憾的是他們錯誤的去扭曲解釋2758號決議文然後用這樣以為理由來禁止我們持有我國的護照的這個民眾經過這個索馬利亞進出索馬利蘭那這是遺憾的事"},{"start":205.954,"end":224.57,"text":"對 剛剛提到這樣子因為我們在國內我們怎麼樣去譴責或者我們怎麼樣去訴求其實都沒有用因為事實上它不斷的在發生就像之前南非我們本來也是設代表處後來把它降成經濟文化辦事處這個也是因為他們大概也是以2758號決議這個來做決定的另外有很多我們參與國際組織的障礙"},{"start":232.316,"end":239.2,"text":"大概也都是因為這樣包括國際刑警組織過去我們也曾經以中華民國的名義其實曾經是正式會員可是後來被排除了那還有國際民航組織還有世界衛生組織等等我們至少在WHA其實我們也曾經還是觀察員可是現在什麼都不是所以在我們就這些發生的事情"},{"start":258.511,"end":283.648,"text":"顯然大家沒有辦法去同時去認可2758號決議的這個部分所以就這個發生的這些我只是舉例那其他還有更多因為我們面對國際非常多的國家大概都是以這個他們自己國家的解釋我們沒有辦法去改變那對我們來說就會線索越來越大影響越來越深而且我們可能也會受到更多的一些傷害"},{"start":285.189,"end":293.131,"text":"那在4月底的時候美國在聯合國安理會會議中他就2758號決議美中在對此有激烈的辯論代表這個議題其實在安理會至少被實質討論而不是只有在每年的聯合國大會裡面靠友邦或者友好國家的發言支持而已這可能也是開啟我們能否參與國際組織實質的第一步這是其中一個另外"},{"start":314.417,"end":335.896,"text":"在去年5月巴勒斯坦在聯合國會議會員的聯合國會員議題上面也被聯合國大會以壓倒性的多數通過決議雖然最後認定他符合聯合國憲章應該是要被接納雖然最後這個案子被安理會否決可是至少巴勒斯坦"},{"start":337.297,"end":345.243,"text":"獲得了國際上普遍的一個支持跟認定這是他們努力的結果我們很希望如果我們可以得到國際的認可這個還有很多要努力的方向就我們剛剛提到的一個就美國在安理會的這個部分他們做了實質的討論那我們不要每年都是只計算多少友邦幫我們發言然後我們不斷的在原地踏步另外還有一個就是"},{"start":365.958,"end":369.381,"text":"日前美國眾議院他通過台灣國際團結法案那在這一個部分他強調2758號決議沒有處理台灣或台灣人民在聯合國或相關組織的代表權問題他們現在主張是這樣可是這個在"},{"start":385.414,"end":404.602,"text":"過去2023年吧他們也曾經通過對不對後來他沒有成為正式的法案是為什麼因為既然美國這麼支持我們眾議院也通過了可是他也沒有成為正式的一個可以執行的法案那時候是為什麼那你現在又提出來他不會面對同樣的問題嗎那我們請北美斯來回答一下"},{"start":411.16,"end":429.247,"text":"美國國會的立法 它一個法案必須要是從參院跟兩院都要通過 要都有生效2023年你講的那個 它應該是一個決議案啦決議案基本上是沒有法律拘束力的所以其實那個並不是說有沒有生效的問題"},{"start":430.427,"end":433.508,"text":"因為就是他提出來他們也希望也是一樣通過嘛那就跟現在一樣那當然還需要參議院然後最後還要總統他支持通過他可能才可以執行可是如果我們一直重複在這些動作剛剛我們講的其實2758號對我們所有的線索越來越嚴重"},{"start":449.955,"end":475.575,"text":"包括我們在民航組織裡面其實我們現在很多航空公司已經把我們的名稱全部都改掉了越來越矮化可是我們也拿他們一點辦法都沒有包括過去其實甚至在川普總統第一任的時候他對於中方這樣的要求其實他是有強力去抗衡的可是現在還是全部都被改掉了那我們有什麼樣因應的做法"},{"start":476.115,"end":496.637,"text":"因為他都改成中國台北我們還是一樣結合理念也跟委員報告像剛才您所說的這個眾院通過了一個non-binding的這個非具有強制力的這樣的一個決議文之後我們也看到了那個雖然他沒有變成一個法案他本來就是設計是這個樣子但重點是在於是說我們看到在聯合國"},{"start":497.578,"end":520.772,"text":"那個上面的時候美國的代表美國的這個政治參事就像您這上面所說的這個吳廷他也很正式的來在上面表達美國的一個立場然後在美國的行政單位也多次的表達他們對2758他們的詮釋他們的立場其實是跟眾院參院所提出來的決議文是接近的所以這是我們的努力的那還有更多的國家"},{"start":521.172,"end":522.613,"text":"因為時間的關係我覺得不用用文字上的敘述我們要的是實質的結果就像我們為什麼特別提巴勒斯坦來做一個對照其實主要就是這樣因為你今天如果已經有"},{"start":537.679,"end":563.407,"text":"這樣子的一個方向那可以做到什麼樣的程度因為你要受到國際普遍的認同我們現在是越來越限縮它不像是有被更認可的一個現象發生所以這是我們現在困境這也是外交部要努力的部分不然我們編了那麼多的預算我想在重要的這個部分其實它是沒有被山東預算這個部分如果要把它做到更好這個才是一個好的成績好不好"},{"start":565.347,"end":589.36,"text":"謝謝委員的鼓勵這也是我們外交部的後續的進度剛好我們講的蘇瑪麗蘭這個部分可能提供一些書面比如說現在應該要怎麼做那會有什麼樣的一個因應的措施我們現在在那裡的人員包括技術團還有我們的住在的一些相關的人員他們的處置方式提供書面資料謝謝謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":387,"blocks":[["馬委員文君：（10時12分）謝謝主席，麻煩請次長。沒關係，慢慢喝。"],["陳次長明祺：委員好。"],["馬委員文君：次長好。次長，今天我們特別在外交部這個議題上面，只是剛剛也有委員關切到包括第2758號決議的部分。"],["陳次長明祺：是。"],["馬委員文君：其實它對我們來說影響非常大，我們看到索馬利亞民航局在4月底通告，根據聯合國大會第2758號決議，堅持一個中國的原則，通知所有航空公司的營運商，還有所有由臺灣或其附屬機構所簽發的護照跟相關的旅行證件，都不得再用於進出及過境索馬利亞聯邦。也就是說，它禁止持臺灣護照入境或過境，外交部對此事其實已經有提出強烈譴責。"],["陳次長明祺：是。"],["馬委員文君：而且也要求立即撤銷禁令，也呼籲國人暫勿前往索馬利亞跟索馬利蘭，對不對？"],["陳次長明祺：是。"],["馬委員文君：就我們跟索馬利蘭在2020年7月已經有互設代表處。"],["陳次長明祺：是。"],["馬委員文君：其實在這過程當中，我們也捐助了一些糧食，還有其他的一些資源……"],["陳次長明祺：我們有協助興建臺灣大道。"],["馬委員文君：現在發生這樣的事情，我們目前要怎麼因應？除了我們去抗議或者要求它撤銷禁令，它如果不願意呢？我們目前駐館的人員有多少？"],["陳副司長詠博：委員好。目前在那邊的駐館人員，包含我們的技術團在索馬利蘭，原則上大概20位左右，包含技術團及醫療團的人員。"],["馬委員文君：他們現在可以自由進出嗎？"],["陳副司長詠博：因為他們目前都還沒有進出的需求，因為這個事情發生在4月底，目前我們跟一些理念相近國家還有索馬利蘭政府，一直共同在解決這個問題，希望可以儘速有一個比較好的結果。"],["馬委員文君：因為它現在限制使用我們的護照，這會是很大的麻煩，而且我們也互設代表處，所以它今天這樣的作為，雖然現在可能還沒有立即要離開的需求，可是他遲早一定要回來，就這個部分，我們希望可以有更積極的作為。至於要怎麼樣去維護他們的權益跟安全，因為才剛發生，而我特別提到這個部分是希望接下來也一起討論，近期如果有什麼樣的進展再提供給我們。我知道美方可能也有一些動作，可是能夠達到什麼樣的效果，我們不知道。"],["陳次長明祺：是，我們相信應該是會有效果的，我們當然也跟索馬利亞表達強烈的抗議，尤其遺憾的是，他們錯誤的扭曲解釋第2758號決議文，利用這樣的理由來禁止持有我國護照的民眾經過索馬利亞進出索馬利蘭，這是一個遺憾的事情。"],["馬委員文君：好，次長，剛剛提到這樣的情形，我們在國內不管怎麼樣去譴責或怎樣去訴求其實都沒有用，因為事實上，它不斷地在發生。就像之前南非，我們本來也是設代表處，後來把它降成經濟文化辦事處，因為他們也是以第2758號決議來決定。另外，有很多我們參與國際組織的障礙大概也都是因為這樣，包括國際刑警組織，過去我們也曾經以中華民國的名義作為正式會員。"],["陳次長明祺：對。"],["馬委員文君：可是後來被排除了，還有國際民航組織、世界衛生組織等等。"],["陳次長明祺：是。"],["馬委員文君：至少在WHA，其實我們也曾經是觀察員，可是現在什麼都不是，所以就這些發生的事情，顯然大家沒有辦法同時去認可第2758號決議。就發生的這些狀況，我只是舉例，其他還有更多，因為我們面對國際非常多的國家，大概都是以他們自己國家的解釋，我們沒有辦法去改變，對我們來說，就會限縮越來越大、影響越來越深，而且我們可能也會受到更多的傷害。"],["陳次長明祺：是。"],["馬委員文君：4月底美中在聯合國安理會會議中，就第2758號決議。有激烈的辯論，代表這個議題其實在安理會至少被實質討論，而不是只有在每年的聯合國大會裡面靠友邦或者友好國家的發言支持而已，這可能也是開啟我們能否參與國際組織實質的第一步，這是其中一個。另外，在去年5月巴勒斯坦在聯合國會員議題上面，也被聯合國大會以壓倒性的多數通過決議，認定它符合聯合國憲章，應該要被接納。雖然最後這個案子被安理會否決，可是至少巴勒斯坦獲得了國際上普遍的支持跟認定，這是他們努力的結果。"],["陳次長明祺：是。"],["馬委員文君：我們很希望可以得到國際的認可，雖然還有很多要努力的方向，即我們剛剛提到的美國在安理會做了實質的討論。我們不要每年都是只計算多少友邦幫我們發言，而不斷地在原地踏步。另外還有一個，日前美國眾議院通過了臺灣國際團結法案，這個部分強調第2758號決議沒有處理臺灣或臺灣人民在聯合國或相關組織的代表權問題，他們現在的主張是這樣。"],["陳次長明祺：是。"],["馬委員文君：可是這個在過去、2023年，他們也曾經通過，對不對？"],["陳次長明祺：是。"],["馬委員文君：後來沒有成為正式的法案是為什麼？既然美國這麼支持我們，眾議院也通過了，可是沒有成為正式可以執行的法案，那時候是為什麼？現在又提出來，不會面對同樣的問題嗎？"],["陳次長明祺：請北美司來回答一下。"],["焦副司長國祐：報告委員，美國國會法案的立法必須由參議院跟眾議院兩院都要通過才生效，你講的2023年的那個應該是一個決議案，決議案基本上是沒有法律拘束力的，所以並不是有沒有生效的問題。"],["馬委員文君：因為它提出來他們也是一樣通過嘛！那就跟現在一樣，當然還需要經過參議院，最後還要總統支持通過才可以執行。如果我們一直重複在這些動作……剛剛講的2758號對我們的限縮越來越嚴重，包括我們在民航組織裡面，其實現在很多航空公司已經把我們的名稱全部都改掉了，越來越矮化，可是我們拿他們一點辦法都沒有。其實在川普總統第一任的時候，對於中方這樣的要求有強力去抗衡，可是現在還是全部都被改掉了，請問我們有什麼因應的作法？因為都被改成中國臺北了。"],["陳次長明祺：我們還是一樣結合理念相同的國家。也跟委員報告，像剛才您所說的，眾院通過了非具有強制力的決議文之後，我們也看到雖然它沒有變成一個法案，它本來的設計就是這個樣子，但重點在於我們看到在聯合國當中，美國的政治參事吳婷也很正式表達美國的立場，包括美國行政單位也多次表達他們對2758號的看法，他們的詮釋和立場其實是跟眾院、參院所提出來的決議文接近的，所以這是我們努力的方向，還有更多的國家繼續來……"],["馬委員文君：次長，因為時間的關係，我覺得不需要用文字上的敘述，我們要的是實質的結果，就像我們為什麼特別提巴勒斯坦來對照，其實主要就是如果今天已經有這樣子的方向，到底可以做到什麼樣的程度？其實應該是要受到國際普遍認同，我們現在卻是越來越限縮，不像是有被更認可的現象發生，所以這是我們現在的困境，這也是外交部要努力的部分，不然我們編了那麼多的預算，重要的預算其實並沒有被刪凍，這個部分要設法做到更好，才是一個好的成績，好不好？"],["陳次長明祺：謝謝委員的鼓勵，這也是外交部未來努力的方向。"],["馬委員文君：關於後續的進度，剛剛我們講的索馬利蘭的部分，請你們提供一些書面，比如現在應該要怎麼做、會有什麼樣的因應措施，以及我們現在在那裡的人員，包括技術團及派駐相關人員的處置方式，麻煩提供書面資料，謝謝。"],["陳次長明祺：一定。好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝馬文君委員的質詢。","接下來由沈伯洋召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":352,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-12","speakers":["黃仁","陳俊宇","羅美玲","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","馬文君","沈伯洋","林楚茵","王定宇","陳培瑜","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林憶君","蔡易餘","林倩綺","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":311,"meetingDate":["2025-05-08"],"gazette_id":"1144601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長、原住民族委員會主任委員報告「運用總和外交理念結合南島語系國家，以發揮\n價值外交願景之規劃與策略」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144601_00006"}}}