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\"start\": 795.313, \"end\": 795.574, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 795.574, \"end\": 796.055, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 796.055, \"end\": 796.155, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 796.155, \"end\": 796.275, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 796.275, \"end\": 796.435, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 796.435, \"end\": 796.596, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 796.596, \"end\": 796.756, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 796.756, \"end\": 797.037, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 797.037, \"end\": 797.257, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 797.257, \"end\": 797.818, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 797.818, \"end\": 798.019, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 798.019, \"end\": 798.36, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"銀\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 798.36, \"end\": 798.7, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": 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00:01:03,738\n國安基金那這個五千億到目前就是說第九次第九次就是進來護盤那我們也知道就是說其實這個是一個非常穩定的一個力量是不是有機會我想再跟你討教一下這個五千億要提高到一兆以前這個是我們有提出這樣子的一個計畫\n\n4\n00:01:05,018 --> 00:01:22,658\n那現在的進度怎麼樣現在事實上基本上因為目前真的是我們的股市的市值比剛成立的時候就增加大概九倍那外資大概本來從大概十幾趴到現在四十幾趴\n\n5\n00:01:23,819 --> 00:01:52,793\n所以的確是跟過去成立的時候不一樣但是我們那個基金一直都是維持在五千億那真正可以用的就只有兩千億所以就操作上真的是有壓力有沒有要提升啊有沒有打算提升當然能夠提升的話如果大家有共識可以提升的話那最好事實上就是說我們有提出這樣子的一個計畫案我要知道現在的進度到哪裡\n\n6\n00:01:53,916 --> 00:02:17,338\n目前還在溝通的階段還在溝通的階段那如果有機會我們把它提升到一兆的時候像目前這樣的一個金融狀況就有大筆資金的一個移動它有沒有可能進來就是說不管是在股市還是透過不同的一個方式然後就是穩定國內的一個金融資訊\n\n7\n00:02:20,161 --> 00:02:37,758\n基本上我們是當然我們是管股市嘛就穩定股市那穩定股市當然可能會涉及到外資的這個進出這個都會涉及到那基本上這個有關資金的進出這部分還是央行的權責還是央行的權責好市長你請回謝謝\n\n8\n00:02:40,200 --> 00:03:05,803\n那總裁我想還是大家還是把這個就是說指向於就是那個國內的金融秩序我們還是要由央行來就是統籌啦那就是說美元的一個就是趨勢就是我們知道在這兩週內它其實就是新台幣大幅的升值那我們看到就是在4月28跟5月\n\n9\n00:03:07,064 --> 00:03:22,172\n那個5月5號這兩週甚至就是說在5月2號這個單日的那個調幅還是最高那其實這個也造成了就是說國內就是整個這個金融市場那個就是大地震\n\n10\n00:03:22,732 --> 00:03:47,946\n那我們就是說把這幾個這個造成那個台幣的大地震裡頭我們把這幾個因素放進來不管是外資大量的一個流入還是出口商加速的一個結會還是市場的意氣心理還是央行他你當天你沒有明顯的干預的一個動作那如果這四個因素裡頭總裁你怎麼看這個是\n\n11\n00:03:49,346 --> 00:04:12,899\n這四個因素裡頭,你認為這四個因素裡頭最大的原因是什麼?是央行沒有進去?我還剛剛已經有說明了事實上就是說是因為預期心理預期心理所以那個出口商他的一個拋匯非常的他的供給大幅的增加\n\n12\n00:04:14,460 --> 00:04:32,771\n剛好也是因為美國的股市慢慢在恢復所以外資也進來我們台灣為什麼大家會這麼害怕因為大家會有這樣的一個意期心理就是說我們要去怕誰\n\n13\n00:04:34,772 --> 00:04:59,409\n那我們從1985年到1992年這個美元從一美元換40塊的台幣一美元換25塊的台幣這個其實在這一波裡頭大家震盪也非常大那1987年到1990年那時候都說台灣錢應該比較多可是短短的8個月在1990年的10月就跌到了股市跌到了2485點\n\n14\n00:05:05,253 --> 00:05:26,984\n這個其實讓很多老一輩的台灣人最後這個玩股票玩的是傾家蕩產所以為什麼大家會這麼害怕大家就是有一個義氣的心理啊如果不會的話我跟你講如果經濟不是那麼可怕的話那我們如果從政治的一個角度裡頭那我請教你美國有沒有對我們台灣施壓\n\n15\n00:05:27,944 --> 00:05:50,042\n我剛剛就已經有一個一個澄清還有一個所以是你認為是沒有是沒有我們5月1號5月2號5月5號做的那個那是媒體害你媒體把那個南韓的一個就是說他的一個大標然後來跟這個你的話做一個很大的對所以我也看到媒體呢他也就說他\n\n16\n00:05:51,403 --> 00:05:55,986\n他就是說是韓國的政府打我一巴掌確實這個是有點形容過度啦應該是沒有啦沒有這回事所以我總覺得就是說要節制有些時候就是說在報導上要節制啦\n\n17\n00:06:14,456 --> 00:06:41,321\n報導上要節制這個是你跟媒體喊話啦好那我們提到了一個認知的一個作戰認知的一個作戰其實我覺得為什麼媒體會誤會你其實我們都一直建議就是說我們參會會其實從去年下半年我們一直就是在關注川普上任的時候的對等關稅的一個議題那像本席也緩緩護護的跟行政院跟央行財政部金管會討論了\n\n18\n00:06:42,901 --> 00:07:02,602\n就是建議了就是在質詢裡頭也一直在告訴你們說央行的經濟分析其實我們是很肯定的因為你們每一次的報告其實是做的最詳細的謝謝我們可是你們在執行面上相形是弱了一點是是是這個我們來改進是不是有機會不要蓋牌\n\n19\n00:07:06,565 --> 00:07:22,696\n你不要蓋牌的話是不是會讓你這個蓋牌會讓大家更緊張如果說你透過一個更透明的一個操作方式的話是不是大家這個意氣心裡就可以降低一點我們來改進我們來改進謝謝我們的指教我想啦這個其實在這麼震盪的一個大環境裡頭\n\n20\n00:07:30,901 --> 00:07:54,297\n這個大家要看得準的沒有幾個可是我相信你應該是其中會看得準的其中一個因為台灣其實過去20多年來對於外債的一個持有其實已經就是是等級的就是一直跳一直跳一直跳甚至海外的資產累積高達到1.7兆的美元那這個1.7兆的美元就是以保險業者占多\n\n21\n00:07:58,340 --> 00:08:20,685\n那保險業者面臨到這麼大的一個困難的時候你怎麼去看待你有什麼好的因應方式呢事實上保險業的這個他的投資投資情況雖然我們中央銀行也有一些的掌握不過這個主要的還是在金管會\n\n22\n00:08:22,245 --> 00:08:45,875\n不過根據因為媒體也是有在做這樣的一個報導所以我們也有跟這個金管會做一些的溝通到目前為止我第一個要說的就是說第一個事實上我剛剛也講過了新台幣的匯率是在30塊左右事實上前面這個不是第一次\n\n23\n00:08:47,055 --> 00:08:52,481\n如果說這個是第一次的話那麼就說30塊這個很可怕沒有不會因為前面很長的時間30塊左右的很多那時候他也度過了\n\n24\n00:09:07,479 --> 00:09:20,897\n那這一次呢大家就說那30塊他非常危險所以我就說第一個30塊以前就很多的時候都是30塊左右那我請教你\n\n25\n00:09:23,660 --> 00:09:45,543\n對於就是台幣在這一波的一個升值你認為是短期的還是這個中長期的一個趨勢呢所以委員我還是要強調的就是說匯率是第一個它比較難捉摸它有升有貶那我們中央銀行也是不希望我們的市場\n\n26\n00:09:47,445 --> 00:10:04,721\n單邊的預期所以呢基本上我們中央銀行也就希望就是說我們的匯率能夠在一個範圍之內能夠穩定那至於就是說它會怎麼樣它未來會怎麼樣說實在的中央銀行也說不准\n\n27\n00:10:05,402 --> 00:10:11,647\n市場我們所以說所以我現在要跟委員報告的就是說以目前這一波的預期心理強烈的預期心理經過了這幾天我總覺得上一次我們就說應該要到此為止這個非理性的預期希望再到此為止不過這幾天我們觀察的結果我們覺得供需是趨於平衡的\n\n28\n00:10:32,364 --> 00:10:37,885\n我們的調節也蠻順暢的所以應該就放心了主席再給我一分鐘我在針對的就是說後續後續就是說我們要因應川普的一個對等關稅那國防會你有沒有就是說在根本上減輕保險業者的一個匯兌的一個風險\n\n29\n00:11:02,669 --> 00:11:16,794\n將他們的資金拉回來台灣那其實我們在推動這個造園投資國家發展的方案的時候這些方案你們有沒有實際做了一些什麼顯然看我們看到了沒有看到了一個很具體的\n\n30\n00:11:18,414 --> 00:11:41,625\n我跟委員報告一下的確我們就是看到其實我們現在受險業者很多都是去買美債那我們希望這些受險業者有多一些投資的工具也就是他可以回到台灣來投資我們的公共建設的計畫所以我們現在其實我們有一個那個促穿的一個平台是產官學就是受險業也在裡面我們現在看到\n\n31\n00:11:42,265 --> 00:12:10,922\n非常明確的就是國花會就是說你這個整體來講的話我們看不到一些具體的非常具體的一個案例如果我們用一個就是之前納曼台三線它其實很具體就是這七十億裡頭它就把它很明確的就是說用台三線的這個客家主體來做一個花展的話那有沒有機會就是往南部走那南部走的時候我們的中小型移感的一個\n\n32\n00:12:11,482 --> 00:12:33,952\n升級還是說我們中小型水庫的一個硬體強化這個都是會就是針對了就是說近期的那個氣候變遷他所帶來的這一這些就是不管是地震還是土石流這些問題都會造成我們非常大的一個需要所以在這裡我要要求央行國會跟軍管會合作評估是不是\n\n33\n00:12:34,613 --> 00:12:49,015\n可能經濟的一個因應經濟的一個情勢跟作為在兩週內以書面的一個回復那就說央行如果強化公開的外匯相關的一個資訊台幣升值的一個趨勢是短期還是中長期那\n\n34\n00:12:49,696 --> 00:13:10,223\n我們海外的一個投資是不是因為這樣產生大額的一個賄損但你如何因應是不是禁止上市櫃保險業者就是說在花旱鼓勵還是如何積極引導保險業者的一個基金回到台灣投入遲遲都沒有發展的造源投資國家發展的一個方案\n\n35\n00:13:10,763 --> 00:13:19,522\n那在對於台灣地方就是觀光、社宅、交通等等的一個需求一直都是非常高的請中央銀行積極的嚴厲相關的一個規劃好謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2864\t7435\t謝謝主席請央行總裁、財政部次長還有國安會副主委\n18823\t23485\t我們2000年開始就是設立的這個國發基金那它的資本額是五發基金是吧\n39570\t63738\t國安基金那這個五千億到目前就是說第九次第九次就是進來護盤那我們也知道就是說其實這個是一個非常穩定的一個力量是不是有機會我想再跟你討教一下這個五千億要提高到一兆以前這個是我們有提出這樣子的一個計畫\n65018\t82658\t那現在的進度怎麼樣現在事實上基本上因為目前真的是我們的股市的市值比剛成立的時候就增加大概九倍那外資大概本來從大概十幾趴到現在四十幾趴\n83819\t112793\t所以的確是跟過去成立的時候不一樣但是我們那個基金一直都是維持在五千億那真正可以用的就只有兩千億所以就操作上真的是有壓力有沒有要提升啊有沒有打算提升當然能夠提升的話如果大家有共識可以提升的話那最好事實上就是說我們有提出這樣子的一個計畫案我要知道現在的進度到哪裡\n113916\t137338\t目前還在溝通的階段還在溝通的階段那如果有機會我們把它提升到一兆的時候像目前這樣的一個金融狀況就有大筆資金的一個移動它有沒有可能進來就是說不管是在股市還是透過不同的一個方式然後就是穩定國內的一個金融資訊\n140161\t157758\t基本上我們是當然我們是管股市嘛就穩定股市那穩定股市當然可能會涉及到外資的這個進出這個都會涉及到那基本上這個有關資金的進出這部分還是央行的權責還是央行的權責好市長你請回謝謝\n160200\t185803\t那總裁我想還是大家還是把這個就是說指向於就是那個國內的金融秩序我們還是要由央行來就是統籌啦那就是說美元的一個就是趨勢就是我們知道在這兩週內它其實就是新台幣大幅的升值那我們看到就是在4月28跟5月\n187064\t202172\t那個5月5號這兩週甚至就是說在5月2號這個單日的那個調幅還是最高那其實這個也造成了就是說國內就是整個這個金融市場那個就是大地震\n202732\t227946\t那我們就是說把這幾個這個造成那個台幣的大地震裡頭我們把這幾個因素放進來不管是外資大量的一個流入還是出口商加速的一個結會還是市場的意氣心理還是央行他你當天你沒有明顯的干預的一個動作那如果這四個因素裡頭總裁你怎麼看這個是\n229346\t252899\t這四個因素裡頭,你認為這四個因素裡頭最大的原因是什麼?是央行沒有進去?我還剛剛已經有說明了事實上就是說是因為預期心理預期心理所以那個出口商他的一個拋匯非常的他的供給大幅的增加\n254460\t272771\t剛好也是因為美國的股市慢慢在恢復所以外資也進來我們台灣為什麼大家會這麼害怕因為大家會有這樣的一個意期心理就是說我們要去怕誰\n274772\t299409\t那我們從1985年到1992年這個美元從一美元換40塊的台幣一美元換25塊的台幣這個其實在這一波裡頭大家震盪也非常大那1987年到1990年那時候都說台灣錢應該比較多可是短短的8個月在1990年的10月就跌到了股市跌到了2485點\n305253\t326984\t這個其實讓很多老一輩的台灣人最後這個玩股票玩的是傾家蕩產所以為什麼大家會這麼害怕大家就是有一個義氣的心理啊如果不會的話我跟你講如果經濟不是那麼可怕的話那我們如果從政治的一個角度裡頭那我請教你美國有沒有對我們台灣施壓\n327944\t350042\t我剛剛就已經有一個一個澄清還有一個所以是你認為是沒有是沒有我們5月1號5月2號5月5號做的那個那是媒體害你媒體把那個南韓的一個就是說他的一個大標然後來跟這個你的話做一個很大的對所以我也看到媒體呢他也就說他\n351403\t355986\t他就是說是韓國的政府打我一巴掌確實這個是有點形容過度啦應該是沒有啦沒有這回事所以我總覺得就是說要節制有些時候就是說在報導上要節制啦\n374456\t401321\t報導上要節制這個是你跟媒體喊話啦好那我們提到了一個認知的一個作戰認知的一個作戰其實我覺得為什麼媒體會誤會你其實我們都一直建議就是說我們參會會其實從去年下半年我們一直就是在關注川普上任的時候的對等關稅的一個議題那像本席也緩緩護護的跟行政院跟央行財政部金管會討論了\n402901\t422602\t就是建議了就是在質詢裡頭也一直在告訴你們說央行的經濟分析其實我們是很肯定的因為你們每一次的報告其實是做的最詳細的謝謝我們可是你們在執行面上相形是弱了一點是是是這個我們來改進是不是有機會不要蓋牌\n426565\t442696\t你不要蓋牌的話是不是會讓你這個蓋牌會讓大家更緊張如果說你透過一個更透明的一個操作方式的話是不是大家這個意氣心裡就可以降低一點我們來改進我們來改進謝謝我們的指教我想啦這個其實在這麼震盪的一個大環境裡頭\n450901\t474297\t這個大家要看得準的沒有幾個可是我相信你應該是其中會看得準的其中一個因為台灣其實過去20多年來對於外債的一個持有其實已經就是是等級的就是一直跳一直跳一直跳甚至海外的資產累積高達到1.7兆的美元那這個1.7兆的美元就是以保險業者占多\n478340\t500685\t那保險業者面臨到這麼大的一個困難的時候你怎麼去看待你有什麼好的因應方式呢事實上保險業的這個他的投資投資情況雖然我們中央銀行也有一些的掌握不過這個主要的還是在金管會\n502245\t525875\t不過根據因為媒體也是有在做這樣的一個報導所以我們也有跟這個金管會做一些的溝通到目前為止我第一個要說的就是說第一個事實上我剛剛也講過了新台幣的匯率是在30塊左右事實上前面這個不是第一次\n527055\t532481\t如果說這個是第一次的話 那麼就說 30塊這個很可怕沒有 不會 因為前面很長的時間 30塊左右的很多那時候他也度過了\n547479\t560897\t那這一次呢大家就說那30塊他非常危險所以我就說第一個30塊以前就很多的時候都是30塊左右那我請教你\n563660\t585543\t對於就是台幣在這一波的一個升值你認為是短期的還是這個中長期的一個趨勢呢所以委員我還是要強調的就是說匯率是第一個它比較難捉摸它有升有貶那我們中央銀行也是不希望我們的市場\n587445\t604721\t單邊的預期所以呢基本上我們中央銀行也就希望就是說我們的匯率能夠在一個範圍之內能夠穩定那至於就是說它會怎麼樣它未來會怎麼樣說實在的中央銀行也說不准\n605402\t611647\t市場我們所以說所以我現在要跟委員報告的就是說以目前這一波的預期心理強烈的預期心理經過了這幾天我總覺得上一次我們就說應該要到此為止這個非理性的預期希望再到此為止不過這幾天我們觀察的結果我們覺得供需是趨於平衡的\n632364\t637885\t我們的調節也蠻順暢的所以應該就放心了主席再給我一分鐘我在針對的就是說後續後續就是說我們要因應川普的一個對等關稅那國防會你有沒有就是說在根本上減輕保險業者的一個匯兌的一個風險\n662669\t676794\t將他們的資金拉回來台灣那其實我們在推動這個造園投資國家發展的方案的時候這些方案你們有沒有實際做了一些什麼顯然看我們看到了沒有看到了一個很具體的\n678414\t701625\t我跟委員報告一下的確我們就是看到其實我們現在受險業者很多都是去買美債那我們希望這些受險業者有多一些投資的工具也就是他可以回到台灣來投資我們的公共建設的計畫所以我們現在其實我們有一個那個促穿的一個平台是產官學就是受險業也在裡面我們現在看到\n702265\t730922\t非常明確的就是國花會就是說你這個整體來講的話我們看不到一些具體的非常具體的一個案例如果我們用一個就是之前納曼台三線它其實很具體就是這七十億裡頭它就把它很明確的就是說用台三線的這個客家主體來做一個花展的話那有沒有機會就是往南部走那南部走的時候我們的中小型移感的一個\n731482\t753952\t升級還是說我們中小型水庫的一個硬體強化這個都是會就是針對了就是說近期的那個氣候變遷他所帶來的這一這些就是不管是地震還是土石流這些問題都會造成我們非常大的一個需要所以在這裡我要要求央行國會跟軍管會合作評估是不是\n754613\t769015\t可能經濟的一個因應經濟的一個情勢跟作為在兩週內以書面的一個回復那就說央行如果強化公開的外匯相關的一個資訊台幣升值的一個趨勢是短期還是中長期那\n769696\t790223\t我們海外的一個投資是不是因為這樣產生大額的一個賄損但你如何因應是不是禁止上市櫃保險業者就是說在花旱鼓勵還是如何積極引導保險業者的一個基金回到台灣投入遲遲都沒有發展的造源投資國家發展的一個方案\n790763\t799522\t那在對於台灣地方就是觀光、社宅、交通等等的一個需求一直都是非常高的請中央銀行積極的嚴厲相關的一個規劃好 謝謝主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席請央行總裁、財政部次長還有國安會副主委\n我們2000年開始就是設立的這個國發基金那它的資本額是五發基金是吧\n國安基金那這個五千億到目前就是說第九次第九次就是進來護盤那我們也知道就是說其實這個是一個非常穩定的一個力量是不是有機會我想再跟你討教一下這個五千億要提高到一兆以前這個是我們有提出這樣子的一個計畫\n那現在的進度怎麼樣現在事實上基本上因為目前真的是我們的股市的市值比剛成立的時候就增加大概九倍那外資大概本來從大概十幾趴到現在四十幾趴\n所以的確是跟過去成立的時候不一樣但是我們那個基金一直都是維持在五千億那真正可以用的就只有兩千億所以就操作上真的是有壓力有沒有要提升啊有沒有打算提升當然能夠提升的話如果大家有共識可以提升的話那最好事實上就是說我們有提出這樣子的一個計畫案我要知道現在的進度到哪裡\n目前還在溝通的階段還在溝通的階段那如果有機會我們把它提升到一兆的時候像目前這樣的一個金融狀況就有大筆資金的一個移動它有沒有可能進來就是說不管是在股市還是透過不同的一個方式然後就是穩定國內的一個金融資訊\n基本上我們是當然我們是管股市嘛就穩定股市那穩定股市當然可能會涉及到外資的這個進出這個都會涉及到那基本上這個有關資金的進出這部分還是央行的權責還是央行的權責好市長你請回謝謝\n那總裁我想還是大家還是把這個就是說指向於就是那個國內的金融秩序我們還是要由央行來就是統籌啦那就是說美元的一個就是趨勢就是我們知道在這兩週內它其實就是新台幣大幅的升值那我們看到就是在4月28跟5月\n那個5月5號這兩週甚至就是說在5月2號這個單日的那個調幅還是最高那其實這個也造成了就是說國內就是整個這個金融市場那個就是大地震\n那我們就是說把這幾個這個造成那個台幣的大地震裡頭我們把這幾個因素放進來不管是外資大量的一個流入還是出口商加速的一個結會還是市場的意氣心理還是央行他你當天你沒有明顯的干預的一個動作那如果這四個因素裡頭總裁你怎麼看這個是\n這四個因素裡頭,你認為這四個因素裡頭最大的原因是什麼?是央行沒有進去?我還剛剛已經有說明了事實上就是說是因為預期心理預期心理所以那個出口商他的一個拋匯非常的他的供給大幅的增加\n剛好也是因為美國的股市慢慢在恢復所以外資也進來我們台灣為什麼大家會這麼害怕因為大家會有這樣的一個意期心理就是說我們要去怕誰\n那我們從1985年到1992年這個美元從一美元換40塊的台幣一美元換25塊的台幣這個其實在這一波裡頭大家震盪也非常大那1987年到1990年那時候都說台灣錢應該比較多可是短短的8個月在1990年的10月就跌到了股市跌到了2485點\n這個其實讓很多老一輩的台灣人最後這個玩股票玩的是傾家蕩產所以為什麼大家會這麼害怕大家就是有一個義氣的心理啊如果不會的話我跟你講如果經濟不是那麼可怕的話那我們如果從政治的一個角度裡頭那我請教你美國有沒有對我們台灣施壓\n我剛剛就已經有一個一個澄清還有一個所以是你認為是沒有是沒有我們5月1號5月2號5月5號做的那個那是媒體害你媒體把那個南韓的一個就是說他的一個大標然後來跟這個你的話做一個很大的對所以我也看到媒體呢他也就說他\n他就是說是韓國的政府打我一巴掌確實這個是有點形容過度啦應該是沒有啦沒有這回事所以我總覺得就是說要節制有些時候就是說在報導上要節制啦\n報導上要節制這個是你跟媒體喊話啦好那我們提到了一個認知的一個作戰認知的一個作戰其實我覺得為什麼媒體會誤會你其實我們都一直建議就是說我們參會會其實從去年下半年我們一直就是在關注川普上任的時候的對等關稅的一個議題那像本席也緩緩護護的跟行政院跟央行財政部金管會討論了\n就是建議了就是在質詢裡頭也一直在告訴你們說央行的經濟分析其實我們是很肯定的因為你們每一次的報告其實是做的最詳細的謝謝我們可是你們在執行面上相形是弱了一點是是是這個我們來改進是不是有機會不要蓋牌\n你不要蓋牌的話是不是會讓你這個蓋牌會讓大家更緊張如果說你透過一個更透明的一個操作方式的話是不是大家這個意氣心裡就可以降低一點我們來改進我們來改進謝謝我們的指教我想啦這個其實在這麼震盪的一個大環境裡頭\n這個大家要看得準的沒有幾個可是我相信你應該是其中會看得準的其中一個因為台灣其實過去20多年來對於外債的一個持有其實已經就是是等級的就是一直跳一直跳一直跳甚至海外的資產累積高達到1.7兆的美元那這個1.7兆的美元就是以保險業者占多\n那保險業者面臨到這麼大的一個困難的時候你怎麼去看待你有什麼好的因應方式呢事實上保險業的這個他的投資投資情況雖然我們中央銀行也有一些的掌握不過這個主要的還是在金管會\n不過根據因為媒體也是有在做這樣的一個報導所以我們也有跟這個金管會做一些的溝通到目前為止我第一個要說的就是說第一個事實上我剛剛也講過了新台幣的匯率是在30塊左右事實上前面這個不是第一次\n如果說這個是第一次的話 那麼就說 30塊這個很可怕沒有 不會 因為前面很長的時間 30塊左右的很多那時候他也度過了\n那這一次呢大家就說那30塊他非常危險所以我就說第一個30塊以前就很多的時候都是30塊左右那我請教你\n對於就是台幣在這一波的一個升值你認為是短期的還是這個中長期的一個趨勢呢所以委員我還是要強調的就是說匯率是第一個它比較難捉摸它有升有貶那我們中央銀行也是不希望我們的市場\n單邊的預期所以呢基本上我們中央銀行也就希望就是說我們的匯率能夠在一個範圍之內能夠穩定那至於就是說它會怎麼樣它未來會怎麼樣說實在的中央銀行也說不准\n市場我們所以說所以我現在要跟委員報告的就是說以目前這一波的預期心理強烈的預期心理經過了這幾天我總覺得上一次我們就說應該要到此為止這個非理性的預期希望再到此為止不過這幾天我們觀察的結果我們覺得供需是趨於平衡的\n我們的調節也蠻順暢的所以應該就放心了主席再給我一分鐘我在針對的就是說後續後續就是說我們要因應川普的一個對等關稅那國防會你有沒有就是說在根本上減輕保險業者的一個匯兌的一個風險\n將他們的資金拉回來台灣那其實我們在推動這個造園投資國家發展的方案的時候這些方案你們有沒有實際做了一些什麼顯然看我們看到了沒有看到了一個很具體的\n我跟委員報告一下的確我們就是看到其實我們現在受險業者很多都是去買美債那我們希望這些受險業者有多一些投資的工具也就是他可以回到台灣來投資我們的公共建設的計畫所以我們現在其實我們有一個那個促穿的一個平台是產官學就是受險業也在裡面我們現在看到\n非常明確的就是國花會就是說你這個整體來講的話我們看不到一些具體的非常具體的一個案例如果我們用一個就是之前納曼台三線它其實很具體就是這七十億裡頭它就把它很明確的就是說用台三線的這個客家主體來做一個花展的話那有沒有機會就是往南部走那南部走的時候我們的中小型移感的一個\n升級還是說我們中小型水庫的一個硬體強化這個都是會就是針對了就是說近期的那個氣候變遷他所帶來的這一這些就是不管是地震還是土石流這些問題都會造成我們非常大的一個需要所以在這裡我要要求央行國會跟軍管會合作評估是不是\n可能經濟的一個因應經濟的一個情勢跟作為在兩週內以書面的一個回復那就說央行如果強化公開的外匯相關的一個資訊台幣升值的一個趨勢是短期還是中長期那\n我們海外的一個投資是不是因為這樣產生大額的一個賄損但你如何因應是不是禁止上市櫃保險業者就是說在花旱鼓勵還是如何積極引導保險業者的一個基金回到台灣投入遲遲都沒有發展的造源投資國家發展的一個方案\n那在對於台灣地方就是觀光、社宅、交通等等的一個需求一直都是非常高的請中央銀行積極的嚴厲相關的一個規劃好 謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.864 --> 00:07.435\n謝謝主席請央行總裁、財政部次長還有國安會副主委\n\n00:18.823 --> 00:23.485\n我們2000年開始就是設立的這個國發基金那它的資本額是五發基金是吧\n\n00:39.570 --> 01:03.738\n國安基金那這個五千億到目前就是說第九次第九次就是進來護盤那我們也知道就是說其實這個是一個非常穩定的一個力量是不是有機會我想再跟你討教一下這個五千億要提高到一兆以前這個是我們有提出這樣子的一個計畫\n\n01:05.018 --> 01:22.658\n那現在的進度怎麼樣現在事實上基本上因為目前真的是我們的股市的市值比剛成立的時候就增加大概九倍那外資大概本來從大概十幾趴到現在四十幾趴\n\n01:23.819 --> 01:52.793\n所以的確是跟過去成立的時候不一樣但是我們那個基金一直都是維持在五千億那真正可以用的就只有兩千億所以就操作上真的是有壓力有沒有要提升啊有沒有打算提升當然能夠提升的話如果大家有共識可以提升的話那最好事實上就是說我們有提出這樣子的一個計畫案我要知道現在的進度到哪裡\n\n01:53.916 --> 02:17.338\n目前還在溝通的階段還在溝通的階段那如果有機會我們把它提升到一兆的時候像目前這樣的一個金融狀況就有大筆資金的一個移動它有沒有可能進來就是說不管是在股市還是透過不同的一個方式然後就是穩定國內的一個金融資訊\n\n02:20.161 --> 02:37.758\n基本上我們是當然我們是管股市嘛就穩定股市那穩定股市當然可能會涉及到外資的這個進出這個都會涉及到那基本上這個有關資金的進出這部分還是央行的權責還是央行的權責好市長你請回謝謝\n\n02:40.200 --> 03:05.803\n那總裁我想還是大家還是把這個就是說指向於就是那個國內的金融秩序我們還是要由央行來就是統籌啦那就是說美元的一個就是趨勢就是我們知道在這兩週內它其實就是新台幣大幅的升值那我們看到就是在4月28跟5月\n\n03:07.064 --> 03:22.172\n那個5月5號這兩週甚至就是說在5月2號這個單日的那個調幅還是最高那其實這個也造成了就是說國內就是整個這個金融市場那個就是大地震\n\n03:22.732 --> 03:47.946\n那我們就是說把這幾個這個造成那個台幣的大地震裡頭我們把這幾個因素放進來不管是外資大量的一個流入還是出口商加速的一個結會還是市場的意氣心理還是央行他你當天你沒有明顯的干預的一個動作那如果這四個因素裡頭總裁你怎麼看這個是\n\n03:49.346 --> 04:12.899\n這四個因素裡頭,你認為這四個因素裡頭最大的原因是什麼?是央行沒有進去?我還剛剛已經有說明了事實上就是說是因為預期心理預期心理所以那個出口商他的一個拋匯非常的他的供給大幅的增加\n\n04:14.460 --> 04:32.771\n剛好也是因為美國的股市慢慢在恢復所以外資也進來我們台灣為什麼大家會這麼害怕因為大家會有這樣的一個意期心理就是說我們要去怕誰\n\n04:34.772 --> 04:59.409\n那我們從1985年到1992年這個美元從一美元換40塊的台幣一美元換25塊的台幣這個其實在這一波裡頭大家震盪也非常大那1987年到1990年那時候都說台灣錢應該比較多可是短短的8個月在1990年的10月就跌到了股市跌到了2485點\n\n05:05.253 --> 05:26.984\n這個其實讓很多老一輩的台灣人最後這個玩股票玩的是傾家蕩產所以為什麼大家會這麼害怕大家就是有一個義氣的心理啊如果不會的話我跟你講如果經濟不是那麼可怕的話那我們如果從政治的一個角度裡頭那我請教你美國有沒有對我們台灣施壓\n\n05:27.944 --> 05:50.042\n我剛剛就已經有一個一個澄清還有一個所以是你認為是沒有是沒有我們5月1號5月2號5月5號做的那個那是媒體害你媒體把那個南韓的一個就是說他的一個大標然後來跟這個你的話做一個很大的對所以我也看到媒體呢他也就說他\n\n05:51.403 --> 05:55.986\n他就是說是韓國的政府打我一巴掌確實這個是有點形容過度啦應該是沒有啦沒有這回事所以我總覺得就是說要節制有些時候就是說在報導上要節制啦\n\n06:14.456 --> 06:41.321\n報導上要節制這個是你跟媒體喊話啦好那我們提到了一個認知的一個作戰認知的一個作戰其實我覺得為什麼媒體會誤會你其實我們都一直建議就是說我們參會會其實從去年下半年我們一直就是在關注川普上任的時候的對等關稅的一個議題那像本席也緩緩護護的跟行政院跟央行財政部金管會討論了\n\n06:42.901 --> 07:02.602\n就是建議了就是在質詢裡頭也一直在告訴你們說央行的經濟分析其實我們是很肯定的因為你們每一次的報告其實是做的最詳細的謝謝我們可是你們在執行面上相形是弱了一點是是是這個我們來改進是不是有機會不要蓋牌\n\n07:06.565 --> 07:22.696\n你不要蓋牌的話是不是會讓你這個蓋牌會讓大家更緊張如果說你透過一個更透明的一個操作方式的話是不是大家這個意氣心裡就可以降低一點我們來改進我們來改進謝謝我們的指教我想啦這個其實在這麼震盪的一個大環境裡頭\n\n07:30.901 --> 07:54.297\n這個大家要看得準的沒有幾個可是我相信你應該是其中會看得準的其中一個因為台灣其實過去20多年來對於外債的一個持有其實已經就是是等級的就是一直跳一直跳一直跳甚至海外的資產累積高達到1.7兆的美元那這個1.7兆的美元就是以保險業者占多\n\n07:58.340 --> 08:20.685\n那保險業者面臨到這麼大的一個困難的時候你怎麼去看待你有什麼好的因應方式呢事實上保險業的這個他的投資投資情況雖然我們中央銀行也有一些的掌握不過這個主要的還是在金管會\n\n08:22.245 --> 08:45.875\n不過根據因為媒體也是有在做這樣的一個報導所以我們也有跟這個金管會做一些的溝通到目前為止我第一個要說的就是說第一個事實上我剛剛也講過了新台幣的匯率是在30塊左右事實上前面這個不是第一次\n\n08:47.055 --> 08:52.481\n如果說這個是第一次的話那麼就說30塊這個很可怕沒有不會因為前面很長的時間30塊左右的很多那時候他也度過了\n\n09:07.479 --> 09:20.897\n那這一次呢大家就說那30塊他非常危險所以我就說第一個30塊以前就很多的時候都是30塊左右那我請教你\n\n09:23.660 --> 09:45.543\n對於就是台幣在這一波的一個升值你認為是短期的還是這個中長期的一個趨勢呢所以委員我還是要強調的就是說匯率是第一個它比較難捉摸它有升有貶那我們中央銀行也是不希望我們的市場\n\n09:47.445 --> 10:04.721\n單邊的預期所以呢基本上我們中央銀行也就希望就是說我們的匯率能夠在一個範圍之內能夠穩定那至於就是說它會怎麼樣它未來會怎麼樣說實在的中央銀行也說不准\n\n10:05.402 --> 10:11.647\n市場我們所以說所以我現在要跟委員報告的就是說以目前這一波的預期心理強烈的預期心理經過了這幾天我總覺得上一次我們就說應該要到此為止這個非理性的預期希望再到此為止不過這幾天我們觀察的結果我們覺得供需是趨於平衡的\n\n10:32.364 --> 10:37.885\n我們的調節也蠻順暢的所以應該就放心了主席再給我一分鐘我在針對的就是說後續後續就是說我們要因應川普的一個對等關稅那國防會你有沒有就是說在根本上減輕保險業者的一個匯兌的一個風險\n\n11:02.669 --> 11:16.794\n將他們的資金拉回來台灣那其實我們在推動這個造園投資國家發展的方案的時候這些方案你們有沒有實際做了一些什麼顯然看我們看到了沒有看到了一個很具體的\n\n11:18.414 --> 11:41.625\n我跟委員報告一下的確我們就是看到其實我們現在受險業者很多都是去買美債那我們希望這些受險業者有多一些投資的工具也就是他可以回到台灣來投資我們的公共建設的計畫所以我們現在其實我們有一個那個促穿的一個平台是產官學就是受險業也在裡面我們現在看到\n\n11:42.265 --> 12:10.922\n非常明確的就是國花會就是說你這個整體來講的話我們看不到一些具體的非常具體的一個案例如果我們用一個就是之前納曼台三線它其實很具體就是這七十億裡頭它就把它很明確的就是說用台三線的這個客家主體來做一個花展的話那有沒有機會就是往南部走那南部走的時候我們的中小型移感的一個\n\n12:11.482 --> 12:33.952\n升級還是說我們中小型水庫的一個硬體強化這個都是會就是針對了就是說近期的那個氣候變遷他所帶來的這一這些就是不管是地震還是土石流這些問題都會造成我們非常大的一個需要所以在這裡我要要求央行國會跟軍管會合作評估是不是\n\n12:34.613 --> 12:49.015\n可能經濟的一個因應經濟的一個情勢跟作為在兩週內以書面的一個回復那就說央行如果強化公開的外匯相關的一個資訊台幣升值的一個趨勢是短期還是中長期那\n\n12:49.696 --> 13:10.223\n我們海外的一個投資是不是因為這樣產生大額的一個賄損但你如何因應是不是禁止上市櫃保險業者就是說在花旱鼓勵還是如何積極引導保險業者的一個基金回到台灣投入遲遲都沒有發展的造源投資國家發展的一個方案\n\n13:10.763 --> 13:19.522\n那在對於台灣地方就是觀光、社宅、交通等等的一個需求一直都是非常高的請中央銀行積極的嚴厲相關的一個規劃好謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.864,"end":7.435,"text":"謝謝主席請央行總裁、財政部次長還有國安會副主委"},{"start":18.823,"end":23.485,"text":"我們2000年開始就是設立的這個國發基金那它的資本額是五發基金是吧"},{"start":39.57,"end":63.738,"text":"國安基金那這個五千億到目前就是說第九次第九次就是進來護盤那我們也知道就是說其實這個是一個非常穩定的一個力量是不是有機會我想再跟你討教一下這個五千億要提高到一兆以前這個是我們有提出這樣子的一個計畫"},{"start":65.018,"end":82.658,"text":"那現在的進度怎麼樣現在事實上基本上因為目前真的是我們的股市的市值比剛成立的時候就增加大概九倍那外資大概本來從大概十幾趴到現在四十幾趴"},{"start":83.819,"end":112.793,"text":"所以的確是跟過去成立的時候不一樣但是我們那個基金一直都是維持在五千億那真正可以用的就只有兩千億所以就操作上真的是有壓力有沒有要提升啊有沒有打算提升當然能夠提升的話如果大家有共識可以提升的話那最好事實上就是說我們有提出這樣子的一個計畫案我要知道現在的進度到哪裡"},{"start":113.916,"end":137.338,"text":"目前還在溝通的階段還在溝通的階段那如果有機會我們把它提升到一兆的時候像目前這樣的一個金融狀況就有大筆資金的一個移動它有沒有可能進來就是說不管是在股市還是透過不同的一個方式然後就是穩定國內的一個金融資訊"},{"start":140.161,"end":157.758,"text":"基本上我們是當然我們是管股市嘛就穩定股市那穩定股市當然可能會涉及到外資的這個進出這個都會涉及到那基本上這個有關資金的進出這部分還是央行的權責還是央行的權責好市長你請回謝謝"},{"start":160.2,"end":185.803,"text":"那總裁我想還是大家還是把這個就是說指向於就是那個國內的金融秩序我們還是要由央行來就是統籌啦那就是說美元的一個就是趨勢就是我們知道在這兩週內它其實就是新台幣大幅的升值那我們看到就是在4月28跟5月"},{"start":187.064,"end":202.172,"text":"那個5月5號這兩週甚至就是說在5月2號這個單日的那個調幅還是最高那其實這個也造成了就是說國內就是整個這個金融市場那個就是大地震"},{"start":202.732,"end":227.946,"text":"那我們就是說把這幾個這個造成那個台幣的大地震裡頭我們把這幾個因素放進來不管是外資大量的一個流入還是出口商加速的一個結會還是市場的意氣心理還是央行他你當天你沒有明顯的干預的一個動作那如果這四個因素裡頭總裁你怎麼看這個是"},{"start":229.346,"end":252.899,"text":"這四個因素裡頭,你認為這四個因素裡頭最大的原因是什麼?是央行沒有進去?我還剛剛已經有說明了事實上就是說是因為預期心理預期心理所以那個出口商他的一個拋匯非常的他的供給大幅的增加"},{"start":254.46,"end":272.771,"text":"剛好也是因為美國的股市慢慢在恢復所以外資也進來我們台灣為什麼大家會這麼害怕因為大家會有這樣的一個意期心理就是說我們要去怕誰"},{"start":274.772,"end":299.409,"text":"那我們從1985年到1992年這個美元從一美元換40塊的台幣一美元換25塊的台幣這個其實在這一波裡頭大家震盪也非常大那1987年到1990年那時候都說台灣錢應該比較多可是短短的8個月在1990年的10月就跌到了股市跌到了2485點"},{"start":305.253,"end":326.984,"text":"這個其實讓很多老一輩的台灣人最後這個玩股票玩的是傾家蕩產所以為什麼大家會這麼害怕大家就是有一個義氣的心理啊如果不會的話我跟你講如果經濟不是那麼可怕的話那我們如果從政治的一個角度裡頭那我請教你美國有沒有對我們台灣施壓"},{"start":327.944,"end":350.042,"text":"我剛剛就已經有一個一個澄清還有一個所以是你認為是沒有是沒有我們5月1號5月2號5月5號做的那個那是媒體害你媒體把那個南韓的一個就是說他的一個大標然後來跟這個你的話做一個很大的對所以我也看到媒體呢他也就說他"},{"start":351.403,"end":355.986,"text":"他就是說是韓國的政府打我一巴掌確實這個是有點形容過度啦應該是沒有啦沒有這回事所以我總覺得就是說要節制有些時候就是說在報導上要節制啦"},{"start":374.456,"end":401.321,"text":"報導上要節制這個是你跟媒體喊話啦好那我們提到了一個認知的一個作戰認知的一個作戰其實我覺得為什麼媒體會誤會你其實我們都一直建議就是說我們參會會其實從去年下半年我們一直就是在關注川普上任的時候的對等關稅的一個議題那像本席也緩緩護護的跟行政院跟央行財政部金管會討論了"},{"start":402.901,"end":422.602,"text":"就是建議了就是在質詢裡頭也一直在告訴你們說央行的經濟分析其實我們是很肯定的因為你們每一次的報告其實是做的最詳細的謝謝我們可是你們在執行面上相形是弱了一點是是是這個我們來改進是不是有機會不要蓋牌"},{"start":426.565,"end":442.696,"text":"你不要蓋牌的話是不是會讓你這個蓋牌會讓大家更緊張如果說你透過一個更透明的一個操作方式的話是不是大家這個意氣心裡就可以降低一點我們來改進我們來改進謝謝我們的指教我想啦這個其實在這麼震盪的一個大環境裡頭"},{"start":450.901,"end":474.297,"text":"這個大家要看得準的沒有幾個可是我相信你應該是其中會看得準的其中一個因為台灣其實過去20多年來對於外債的一個持有其實已經就是是等級的就是一直跳一直跳一直跳甚至海外的資產累積高達到1.7兆的美元那這個1.7兆的美元就是以保險業者占多"},{"start":478.34,"end":500.685,"text":"那保險業者面臨到這麼大的一個困難的時候你怎麼去看待你有什麼好的因應方式呢事實上保險業的這個他的投資投資情況雖然我們中央銀行也有一些的掌握不過這個主要的還是在金管會"},{"start":502.245,"end":525.875,"text":"不過根據因為媒體也是有在做這樣的一個報導所以我們也有跟這個金管會做一些的溝通到目前為止我第一個要說的就是說第一個事實上我剛剛也講過了新台幣的匯率是在30塊左右事實上前面這個不是第一次"},{"start":527.055,"end":532.481,"text":"如果說這個是第一次的話 那麼就說 30塊這個很可怕沒有 不會 因為前面很長的時間 30塊左右的很多那時候他也度過了"},{"start":547.479,"end":560.897,"text":"那這一次呢大家就說那30塊他非常危險所以我就說第一個30塊以前就很多的時候都是30塊左右那我請教你"},{"start":563.66,"end":585.543,"text":"對於就是台幣在這一波的一個升值你認為是短期的還是這個中長期的一個趨勢呢所以委員我還是要強調的就是說匯率是第一個它比較難捉摸它有升有貶那我們中央銀行也是不希望我們的市場"},{"start":587.445,"end":604.721,"text":"單邊的預期所以呢基本上我們中央銀行也就希望就是說我們的匯率能夠在一個範圍之內能夠穩定那至於就是說它會怎麼樣它未來會怎麼樣說實在的中央銀行也說不准"},{"start":605.402,"end":611.647,"text":"市場我們所以說所以我現在要跟委員報告的就是說以目前這一波的預期心理強烈的預期心理經過了這幾天我總覺得上一次我們就說應該要到此為止這個非理性的預期希望再到此為止不過這幾天我們觀察的結果我們覺得供需是趨於平衡的"},{"start":632.364,"end":637.885,"text":"我們的調節也蠻順暢的所以應該就放心了主席再給我一分鐘我在針對的就是說後續後續就是說我們要因應川普的一個對等關稅那國防會你有沒有就是說在根本上減輕保險業者的一個匯兌的一個風險"},{"start":662.669,"end":676.794,"text":"將他們的資金拉回來台灣那其實我們在推動這個造園投資國家發展的方案的時候這些方案你們有沒有實際做了一些什麼顯然看我們看到了沒有看到了一個很具體的"},{"start":678.414,"end":701.625,"text":"我跟委員報告一下的確我們就是看到其實我們現在受險業者很多都是去買美債那我們希望這些受險業者有多一些投資的工具也就是他可以回到台灣來投資我們的公共建設的計畫所以我們現在其實我們有一個那個促穿的一個平台是產官學就是受險業也在裡面我們現在看到"},{"start":702.265,"end":730.922,"text":"非常明確的就是國花會就是說你這個整體來講的話我們看不到一些具體的非常具體的一個案例如果我們用一個就是之前納曼台三線它其實很具體就是這七十億裡頭它就把它很明確的就是說用台三線的這個客家主體來做一個花展的話那有沒有機會就是往南部走那南部走的時候我們的中小型移感的一個"},{"start":731.482,"end":753.952,"text":"升級還是說我們中小型水庫的一個硬體強化這個都是會就是針對了就是說近期的那個氣候變遷他所帶來的這一這些就是不管是地震還是土石流這些問題都會造成我們非常大的一個需要所以在這裡我要要求央行國會跟軍管會合作評估是不是"},{"start":754.613,"end":769.015,"text":"可能經濟的一個因應經濟的一個情勢跟作為在兩週內以書面的一個回復那就說央行如果強化公開的外匯相關的一個資訊台幣升值的一個趨勢是短期還是中長期那"},{"start":769.696,"end":790.223,"text":"我們海外的一個投資是不是因為這樣產生大額的一個賄損但你如何因應是不是禁止上市櫃保險業者就是說在花旱鼓勵還是如何積極引導保險業者的一個基金回到台灣投入遲遲都沒有發展的造源投資國家發展的一個方案"},{"start":790.763,"end":799.522,"text":"那在對於台灣地方就是觀光、社宅、交通等等的一個需求一直都是非常高的請中央銀行積極的嚴厲相關的一個規劃好 謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":423,"blocks":[["賴委員惠員：（10時11分）謝謝主席。請央行總裁、財政部次長還有國發會副主委。"],["主席：請楊總裁、財政部阮次長、國發會高副主委。"],["楊總裁金龍：賴委員早。"],["賴委員惠員：三位早安。首先我請教一下財政部阮次長，我們2000年開始設立國安基金，資本額是5,000億，日前第9次進場護盤，我們也知道這是一個非常穩定的力量，那麼是不是有機會……跟你討教一下，在這5,000億要提高到1兆以前，我們有提出這樣子的一個計畫，現在進度怎麼樣？"],["阮次長清華：目前我們股市的市值比國安基金剛成立的時候增加大概9倍，外資從本來的百分之十幾變成百分之四十幾，所以的確跟過去成立的時候不一樣，但是我們那個基金一直維持在5,000億，真正可以用的只有2,000億，所以操作上真的是有壓力。"],["賴委員惠員：有沒有打算提升？"],["阮次長清華：當然，如果大家有共識，可以提升的話，那最好，特別是關於貸款那部分……"],["賴委員惠員：事實上我們有提出這樣子的計畫案，我要知道現在的進度到哪裡。"],["阮次長清華：目前還在溝通的階段。"],["賴委員惠員：還在溝通的階段？"],["阮次長清華：是。"],["賴委員惠員：如果有機會把它提升到1兆的話，以目前的金融狀況，就是有大筆資金的移動，有沒有可能不管是在股市還是透過不同的方式來穩定國內的金融秩序呢？"],["阮次長清華：基本上我們是管股市，就是要穩定股市，當然可能會涉及外資的進出，有關資金進出的部分是央行的權責，我們尊重。"],["賴委員惠員：既然是央行的權責，次長請回。謝謝。","總裁，大家還是說國內的金融秩序要由央行來統籌，新臺幣在4月28日和5月5日這兩週內大幅升值，甚至5月2日當日的升值幅度還最高！其實這也造成國內整個金融市場的大地震，在這個大地震裡頭，我們把這四個因素放進來，不管是外資大量流入、出口商加速結匯、市場預期心理或央行當天沒有明顯的干預動作，請問總裁認為最大的原因是什麼？這四個因素裡頭，總裁你怎麼看這四個元素？你認為這四個因素裡頭，最大的原因是什麼？是央行沒有進去？"],["楊總裁金龍：我剛剛已經有說明了，事實上是因為預期心理，所以……"],["賴委員惠員：預期心理？"],["楊總裁金龍：對，預期心理，所以出口商拋匯非常的……它的供給大幅增加，也剛好因為美國的股市慢慢在恢復，所以外資也進來我們臺灣。"],["賴委員惠員：總裁，為什麼大家會這麼害怕呢？因為大家會有這樣的預期心理，就是我們曾經嚇到。1985年到1992年，從1美元換40塊臺幣到1美元換25塊臺幣，其實在這一波裡頭，震盪也非常大。1987年到1990年那時候都說「臺灣錢淹腳目」，可是短短的8個月，在1990年10月股市就跌到了2,485點，其實很多老一輩的臺灣人最後玩股票賠到傾家蕩產，所以為什麼大家會這麼害怕？因為大家就是有一個預期的心理，我跟你講，如果經濟不是那麼可怕的話，如果我們從政治的角度來看，我請教你，美國有沒有對我們臺灣施壓？"],["楊總裁金龍：我剛剛就已經有澄清，還有一個……"],["賴委員惠員：所以你認為沒有？"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有，真的，我們5月1號、5月2號、5月5號做的……"],["賴委員惠員：那是媒體害你？媒體把南韓新聞的大標跟你的話做一個很大的……"],["楊總裁金龍：對，所以我也看到媒體說Bank of Korea的governor打我一巴掌，確實這個是有點形容過度。"],["賴委員惠員：形容過度？其實沒有？"],["楊總裁金龍：對，應該是沒有啦，沒有這回事，所以我總是覺得要節制，有些時候在報導上要節制。"],["賴委員惠員：報導上要節制，這個是你跟媒體喊話啦！再來，我們談認知作戰的部分，其實我覺得為什麼媒體會誤會你……我們財委會從去年下半年就一直在關注有關川普上任後的對等關稅議題，像本席也反覆地跟行政院、央行、財政部、金管會討論、建議了，在質詢裡頭也一直在告訴你們，央行的經濟分析其實我們是很肯定的，因為你們每一次的報告是做得最詳細的。"],["楊總裁金龍：謝謝委員。"],["賴委員惠員：可是你們在執行面上相形是弱了一點。"],["楊總裁金龍：是，這個我們來改進。"],["賴委員惠員：是不是有機會不要蓋牌？你不要蓋牌的話，是不是會讓……你蓋牌會讓大家更緊張，如果你透過一個更透明的操作方式，是不是大家的預期心理就可以降低一點？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們來改進，謝謝。"],["賴委員惠員：會改進喔？"],["楊總裁金龍：謝謝委員的指教。"],["賴委員惠員：我想其實在這麼震盪的一個大環境裡頭，看得準的沒有幾個，可是我相信你應該是看得準的其中一個。"],["楊總裁金龍：謝謝。"],["賴委員惠員：其實臺灣過去二十多年來，對於外債持有的規模一直跳升，甚至海外的資產累計高達1.7兆美元，這1.7兆美元以保險業者占多數，保險業者面臨到這麼大的困難的時候，你怎麼去看待？你有什麼好的因應方式呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：事實上，保險業的投資情況，雖然中央銀行也有一些掌握，但主要還是在金管會。不過因為媒體也是有在做這樣的報導，所以我們也有跟金管會做一些溝通。我第一個要說的是，其實我剛剛也講過了，到目前為止，新臺幣的匯率是在30塊左右，事實上這也不是第一次，如果這個是第一次的話，那麼30塊這個很可怕？沒有，不會，因為前面一段很長的時間是30塊左右的情況很多，那時候也度過啦！是不是？"],["賴委員惠員：是。"],["楊總裁金龍：這一次大家又說30塊非常危險！所以我就說，第一個，以前很多時候都是30塊左右。第二個……"],["賴委員惠員：好，總裁，我請教你，對於臺幣在這一波的升值，你認為是短期的，還是中長期的趨勢？"],["楊總裁金龍：委員，我還是要強調，第一個，匯率比較難捉摸。"],["賴委員惠員：對。"],["楊總裁金龍：它有升有貶，中央銀行也不希望我們的市場單邊預期，基本上中央銀行也希望我們的匯率在一個範圍之內能夠穩定。至於它未來會怎麼樣，說實在的，中央銀行也說不準。市場我們只會說……"],["賴委員惠員：那你認為它是短期的機率會比較高，還是中長期的？"],["楊總裁金龍：我現在要跟委員報告的就是，以目前這一波強烈的預期心理，經過了這幾天，我總覺得……上一次我們就說應該要到此為止了，希望這個非理性的預期到此為止，不過就這幾天我們觀察的結果，我們覺得供需是趨於平衡的，我們的調節……"],["賴委員惠員：所以你認為這個空襲是短期的，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們的調節也滿順暢的，所以也就應該可以放心了。"],["賴委員惠員：好，是短期的，謝謝總裁。"],["楊總裁金龍：好，謝謝。"],["賴委員惠員：主席，再給我1分鐘，我要再講一下後續我們因應川普對等關稅的部分。國發會有沒有在根本上減輕保險業者匯兌的風險？重點就是將他們的資金拉回來臺灣，我們在推動兆元投資國家發展方案的時候，這些方案你們有沒有實際做了些什麼，顯然我們沒有看到一個很具體的目標。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我跟委員報告一下，的確，我們就是看到，現在壽險業者很多都是去買美債，我們希望這些壽險業者多一些投資工具，也就是說，它可以回到臺灣來投資我們的公共建設計畫，所以我們現在其實有一個促參平臺，是產官學的，壽險業也在裡面。"],["賴委員惠員：我們現在看到非常明確的就是，整體來講，我們看不到國發會有非常具體的案例，像之前「浪漫臺三線」其實很具體，就是這70億裡頭，它就很明確的用臺三線的客家主體來做發展。有沒有機會往南部走？往南部走的時候，我們中小型漁港的升級，還有中小型水庫硬體的強化，這個針對的就是近期氣候變遷所帶來的衝擊，不管是地震還是土石流，這些問題都會造成我們有非常大的需求。","所以在這裡我要求央行跟國發會、金管會合作，評估可能的經濟情勢跟因應作為，並在兩週內以書面回復。第一個，央行如何強化公開外匯的相關決策資訊？臺幣升值的趨勢是短期還是中長期？我國海外的投資是不是因為這樣產生大額匯損，應如何因應？是不是禁止上市櫃保險業者發放股利？還是如何積極引導保險業者的基金回到臺灣，投入遲遲都沒有發展的兆元投資國家發展方案？臺灣的地方對於觀光、社宅、交通等等需求，一直都是非常高的，請中央銀行積極研擬相關的規畫。好，謝謝主席。"],["主席：好，謝謝賴委員的質詢。","下一位請郭國文委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":364,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-11","speakers":["賴士葆","林德福","顏寬恒","吳秉叡","賴惠員","郭國文","羅明才","李彥秀","李坤城","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","黃珊珊","王世堅","林思銘","涂權吉","王鴻薇","謝龍介","陳玉珍","陳冠廷","林楚茵","翁曉玲"],"page_start":287,"meetingDate":["2025-05-08"],"gazette_id":"1144701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144701_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、財政部莊部長翠雲、中央銀行楊總裁金龍、國家發展委員會\n劉主任委員鏡清、勞動部洪部長申翰、銓敘部施部長能傑就「我國如果要設立國家主權基金，中\n央銀行與政府相關基金（如四大基金等）所扮演的角色為何？」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144701_00006"}}}