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\"start\": 774.131, \"end\": 774.531, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 774.531, \"end\": 774.791, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 774.791, \"end\": 775.451, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 775.451, \"end\": 776.272, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 776.272, \"end\": 776.872, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 776.872, \"end\": 777.052, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"恐\", \"start\": 777.052, \"end\": 777.272, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"慌\", \"start\": 777.272, \"end\": 777.813, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 777.813, \"end\": 778.293, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 778.293, \"end\": 778.913, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"擇\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 778.913, \"end\": 779.254, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 779.254, \"end\": 779.674, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 779.674, \"end\": 779.814, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 779.814, \"end\": 779.914, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 779.914, \"end\": 780.414, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"擇\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 780.414, \"end\": 780.534, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"含\", \"start\": 780.534, \"end\": 781.175, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"萊\"}, {\"word\": \"劑\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 781.175, \"end\": 782.395, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 782.395, \"end\": 782.535, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 782.535, \"end\": 782.735, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 782.735, \"end\": 782.876, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 782.876, \"end\": 783.056, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 783.056, \"end\": 783.516, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 783.516, \"end\": 783.536, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,793 --> 00:00:15,880\n好謝謝主席那請邱部長委員好\n\n2\n00:00:17,314 --> 00:00:44,120\n部長好針對過去我國推行長照2.0的檢討還有我們未來3.0預期推動的藍圖我們本席也跟部長在委員會討論很多次當然我們也看到衛福部的努力可是還是每個月都看到一些長照悲歌部長對我們到現在有長照2.0你覺得執行成果你還滿意嗎\n\n3\n00:00:46,966 --> 00:01:15,094\n我想從長照的2.0從不管是在經費、人力、服務人數跟長照的據點還有服務的效率我剛剛在口頭報告的時候都有報告單單服務效率我們從51天變成4天我們長照據點從720次變成15000多次都是有幾十很多很多倍的一個成長照顧人力也增加了4倍所以基本上長照2.0的成果\n\n4\n00:01:15,979 --> 00:01:31,074\n是應該相當紅色但是一定還是需要再努力對可是我們看到單單上週4月28號到30號就發生兩件長照被割那共有五條性命不堪照護者\n\n5\n00:01:32,129 --> 00:02:00,825\n不堪負荷照顧者跟被照顧者一起走上絕路那我們現在的長照制度雖然針對我們失能程度有進行分類給予協助但是對於個案這些多重高風險的身份我們覺得他沒有給相對應更多的關懷暴露我們社安網跟我們長照資源分配在制度性的漏洞那我們之前三個禮拜\n\n6\n00:02:01,985 --> 00:02:27,125\n針對新北綜合這個個案照顧者非本國籍而且他沒有替代照顧者在語言文化資源各方面邊緣屬於高風險的個案那我們各縣市身障服務中心如果依照政策落實的運作早就應該要全面盤點這一方面需要協助的個案那為什麼都沒有盤點到\n\n7\n00:02:28,834 --> 00:02:51,696\n好我想高風險個案的一個盤點我想我們是一直在努力啦那至於說會發生像這樣的狀況我們真的是心裡都非常難過而且在這麼努力之下還是會發生這種情況所以我們還有改進的一個空間啦那這個部分是不是請次長跟我們\n\n8\n00:02:53,877 --> 00:03:18,337\n非常感謝圖委員的一個關心那其實這個部分我想我們除了長照之外其實另外一個就是社安網社安網的部分其實主要事實上就是有高負荷您現在所說真是有高負荷那我們這裡面其實大概我們的機制主要是透過糧表的這部分他來趕快呃那個呃呈報之後然後我們會趕快列入這個整個一些高關懷的這一個的呃的那家庭那這個機那我想\n\n9\n00:03:19,578 --> 00:03:44,772\n這個裡面還有另外一個是包括您剛剛所說的有關於跟跟身障照顧服務身障團體身障服務中心這邊的這個相關的整合問題那我想這個裡面的一些缺失我們確實應該也要來好好來檢討所以我們想了解一下這個問題是不是因為他出在沒有去實地訪視那沒有實地訪視我們也講過很多次是不是因為社工不足訪視員不足\n\n10\n00:03:46,693 --> 00:04:04,152\n你沒有去實際了解掌握他實際的狀況那照護者他的壓力又過重所以針對這些實際的狀況我們衛福部並沒有實際掌控是不是政府對於我們社工訪視員這部分沒有好好去做然後人員不足\n\n11\n00:04:05,693 --> 00:04:27,532\n報告委員我想我們現在目前的機制就正如我剛剛所說的我們現在目前就是有長照的一個機制這邊主要是如果說民眾有任何問題主要都是用1966的專線他來跟我們提出這個需求另外一個就是剛剛委員您剛剛所說的有關於社工的部分主要是我們的社會安全網\n\n12\n00:04:29,414 --> 00:04:42,209\n這邊我們的一個部分我們會來加強那我們現在目前的社工人數社安網的部分也從原先是1500我們現在目前已經增加到5000到5900那這邊\n\n13\n00:04:45,473 --> 00:04:51,557\n其實即使是增加這樣的人數其實事實上真的確實還是不足所以也非常感謝也邀請委員我們這邊我們會來加強推動那這裡面我們主要事實上就是有這一個所謂的系統借街\n\n14\n00:05:03,464 --> 00:05:29,214\n系統介接的部分主要事實上是剛剛說的有關於老人保護特別是有關老人保護系統這邊我們主要事實上就是這個系統我們跟照管跟這個剛剛說照管的這個平台之間的一個相互的介接讓我們的社工在受案評估可以看到個案他這裡面剛剛委員您剛剛所提示的長照失能等級還有他的服務狀態我們現在目前是透過這個所謂系統介接\n\n15\n00:05:30,034 --> 00:05:45,944\n好部長次長其實我們今天最主要我們討論很多次那當然我們也給我們衛福部來肯定針對社工的薪資這次有比照軍公教來調薪那我們是希望這個獎勵制度跟津貼\n\n16\n00:05:46,924 --> 00:06:11,089\n還是要注意啦你像針對我們訪視的獎勵制度還有圍牢的津貼這部分應該要給他們多加獎勵要讓更多的人投入社工的行列然後以相對應的薪資來留住這些社工也讓更多的社工來加入避免有太多這些受害者因為社工沒有去訪視而造成這些悲劇\n\n17\n00:06:12,844 --> 00:06:40,175\n跟委員補充一下這個確實就是剛剛委員所說的就是我們有社工還是有欠缺那這個部分主要是要改善他的勞動條件還有最重要是他的薪資這個部分部長他也非常非常支持所以我們在這邊社安網的部分除了原先我們的社工之外另外其他就算是他不是我們的正式社工但是我們有委外的我們現在也一律部長的支持之下我們現在目前就跟軍公教調薪3%\n\n18\n00:06:41,015 --> 00:06:47,182\n好我們希望社工社安網這部分還是要加強因為這講了很多次了好那我們針對我們萊豬的部分我來請問一下好請示\n\n19\n00:06:54,229 --> 00:07:21,439\n那部長當時之前我們農業部陳吉仲部長那之前他在發文有跟在野的立委說沒有全世界的萊豬都會進口台灣這件事情他那時候時空背景他說那台灣允許豬肉進口那時候是13國那這13國裡面有9個國家不允許使用萊克多巴胺那包含丹麥西班牙這些國家那有使用\n\n20\n00:07:22,679 --> 00:07:50,998\n萊劑的像纽西兰澳洲美国跟加拿大这四个国家那当然当时我们纽西兰因为没有出口记录那加拿大它出口它是不含萊劑那澳洲本身国内生产不使用萊劑所以那个时候只有美国出口到我们台湾含萊劑可是现在我们是不是陈吉仲部长这个说法是不是破功因为你看我们现在澳洲使用萊劑的\n\n21\n00:07:52,393 --> 00:08:17,145\n豬肉已經進口到台灣來那我們衛福部是不是針對農業部這部分要做一些調查好謝謝委員是不是署長來回應一下委員好這邊跟委員做報告我們國內其實允許豬肉進口的20國牛肉進口其實有6國其中世界裡面允許萊克多巴胺在豬肉使用有27國\n\n22\n00:08:18,266 --> 00:08:39,702\n那可以來到台灣的有六國其實這邊提到的我們提到的使用端的跟可以使用端跟進口端大概是以上的說明那進一步的因為我們面對的是現在是進口的這一塊對於我們已經設了國家的標準這個國家標準向下我們是針對萊克多巴殘留的標準\n\n23\n00:08:40,743 --> 00:09:02,171\n是0.001的標準那0.01的標準PPM的標準那這個標準的前提之下我們會用到這個來做管理那這樣子管理呢其實對國內外的任何的進口的來源都一體在私有但是之前只有美國有來濟那現在澳洲的也驗出來雖然說在我們的標準之內\n\n24\n00:09:02,831 --> 00:09:24,168\n可是現在以前只有美國那現在澳洲也有也難保其他的國家不會沒有那是不是針對澳洲的部分我們是不是跟農業部應該要去澳洲實地去做個瞭解是不是他們飼養的方式有加入這些萊劑導致送到台灣來的這些豬肉裡面在邊境查驗的時候驗出這個萊劑\n\n25\n00:09:25,419 --> 00:09:49,685\n跟委員報告一下因為澳洲其實是允許使用萊克多巴胺的他們本身飼養就允許了所以在國內是允許的所以在面對這樣的情形我們過去沒有去澳洲茶廠是因為澳洲豬肉來到台灣的歷史是非常非常長的歷史早在農委會衛福部農委會房檢署的時候就有房檢署的時代裡面就有了\n\n26\n00:09:50,245 --> 00:10:08,423\n那就已經進來所以我們就沒有基於信賴保護原則就沒有再進一步去查查事實上沒有進一步去查查我們針對他的牛豬羊鹿肉在他們國內是一體適用的整體的查的一個查查的狀況所以我們針對那一部分在106年也做過系統性的查核\n\n27\n00:10:08,943 --> 00:10:17,913\n在系統上查核之後呢在112年的1月13號其實已經公告可以允許雖然我們沒有特別針對豬的但他針對整個在國內的是豬牛羊鹿其實是一體的\n\n28\n00:10:24,139 --> 00:10:44,529\n可是重點我們現在當然有源頭管理跟邊境茶葉那我們豬肉儀表板也有顯示可是現在我們針對這些豬肉產地我們有標示可是不標示萊劑那重點我們有查到有萊劑可是我們現在又不公布這個產品的流向是不是造成\n\n29\n00:10:45,089 --> 00:11:14,324\n民眾對於這個汁的權利他喪失了那如果說他不要吃含有萊劑的豬肉那他完全沒辦法掌控那如果你看現在澳洲今年進口336.6公噸那我們查驗到70.24公噸就含有萊劑等於五分之一的澳洲豬肉就含有萊劑那你又不公布流向那如果他擔心吃到的話那是不是你要讓民眾就拒絕吃澳洲豬肉\n\n30\n00:11:14,804 --> 00:11:38,057\n我跟委員這邊做報告一下因為這次抽到3批是在澳洲是同一家廠進來的有兩家貿易商同一家廠來這是第一個做說明第二件事情是我們針對這個豬肉牛肉的查查其實從101年的牛肉馬總統的時候開放的時候到110年的蔡總統開放豬肉的時候我們總共查出來有的牛肉是2493件\n\n31\n00:11:39,958 --> 00:12:01,233\n其中這查出來是萊克多巴胺是有檢出微量檢但都是合格的0.01ppm以下其中有6批的牛肉是不合格的我知道是合格的可是基本上應該讓民眾有選擇的權利他如果他不要吃友來記得他可以挑別的那你又不公佈流向他又認為澳洲\n\n32\n00:12:02,194 --> 00:12:21,810\n豬肉裡面現在最少有五分之一含有萊劑那你又不公佈流向又不標示這個萊劑那是不是變成說他只能放棄吃澳洲豬肉報告委員其實所謂的所謂的原產地的標示其實在國內國外的豬牛其實一體適用那因為\n\n33\n00:12:23,411 --> 00:12:39,162\n牛肉萊克多巴胺的部分2493件裡面其實沒有超標所以沒有特別讓民眾知道那在這種前提之下民眾不至於造成恐慌因為它在我們這邊的歷史已經是14、15年的歷史\n\n34\n00:12:41,464 --> 00:13:03,536\n我們是希望還是讓民眾有知的權利有選擇的權利我們衛福部針對這部分我相信其實民眾對這萊劑你說雖然吃了以後不會怎麼樣但是民眾還是會有恐慌他應該有選擇的權利我可以選擇不含萊劑的讓大家更安心謝謝委員謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7793\t15880\t好 謝謝主席 那請邱部長委員好\n17314\t44120\t部長好 針對過去我國推行長照2.0的檢討還有我們未來3.0預期推動的藍圖我們本席也跟部長在委員會討論很多次當然我們也看到衛福部的努力可是還是每個月都看到一些長照悲歌部長對我們到現在有長照2.0你覺得執行成果你還滿意嗎\n46966\t75094\t我想從長照的2.0從不管是在經費、人力、服務人數跟長照的據點還有服務的效率我剛剛在口頭報告的時候都有報告單單服務效率我們從51天變成4天我們長照據點從720次變成15000多次都是有幾十很多很多倍的一個成長照顧人力也增加了4倍所以基本上長照2.0的成果\n75979\t91074\t是應該相當紅色但是一定還是需要再努力對可是我們看到單單上週4月28號到30號就發生兩件長照被割那共有五條性命不堪照護者\n92129\t120825\t不堪負荷照顧者跟被照顧者一起走上絕路那我們現在的長照制度雖然針對我們失能程度有進行分類給予協助但是對於個案這些多重高風險的身份我們覺得他沒有給相對應更多的關懷暴露我們社安網跟我們長照資源分配在制度性的漏洞那我們之前三個禮拜\n121985\t147125\t針對新北綜合這個個案照顧者非本國籍而且他沒有替代照顧者在語言文化資源各方面邊緣屬於高風險的個案那我們各縣市身障服務中心如果依照政策落實的運作早就應該要全面盤點這一方面需要協助的個案那為什麼都沒有盤點到\n148834\t171696\t好我想高風險個案的一個盤點我想我們是一直在努力啦那至於說會發生像這樣的狀況我們真的是心裡都非常難過而且在這麼努力之下還是會發生這種情況所以我們還有改進的一個空間啦那這個部分是不是請次長跟我們\n173877\t198337\t非常感謝圖委員的一個關心那其實這個部分我想我們除了長照之外其實另外一個就是社安網社安網的部分其實主要事實上就是有高負荷您現在所說真是有高負荷那我們這裡面其實大概我們的機制主要是透過糧表的這部分他來趕快呃那個呃呈報之後然後我們會趕快列入這個整個一些高關懷的這一個的呃的那家庭那這個機那我想\n199578\t224772\t這個裡面還有另外一個是包括您剛剛所說的有關於跟跟身障照顧服務身障團體身障服務中心這邊的這個相關的整合問題那我想這個裡面的一些缺失我們確實應該也要來好好來檢討所以我們想了解一下這個問題是不是因為他出在沒有去實地訪視那沒有實地訪視我們也講過很多次是不是因為社工不足訪視員不足\n226693\t244152\t你沒有去實際了解掌握他實際的狀況那照護者他的壓力又過重所以針對這些實際的狀況我們衛福部並沒有實際掌控是不是政府對於我們社工訪視員這部分沒有好好去做然後人員不足\n245693\t267532\t報告委員 我想我們現在目前的機制就正如我剛剛所說的我們現在目前就是有長照的一個機制這邊主要是如果說民眾有任何問題主要都是用1966的專線他來跟我們提出這個需求另外一個就是剛剛委員您剛剛所說的有關於社工的部分主要是我們的社會安全網\n269414\t282209\t這邊我們的一個部分我們會來加強那我們現在目前的社工人數社安網的部分也從原先是1500我們現在目前已經增加到5000到5900那這邊\n285473\t291557\t其實即使是增加這樣的人數其實事實上真的確實還是不足所以也非常感謝也邀請委員我們這邊我們會來加強推動那這裡面我們主要事實上就是有這一個所謂的系統借街\n303464\t329214\t系統介接的部分主要事實上是剛剛說的有關於老人保護特別是有關老人保護系統這邊我們主要事實上就是這個系統我們跟照管跟這個剛剛說照管的這個平台之間的一個相互的介接讓我們的社工在受案評估可以看到個案他這裡面剛剛委員您剛剛所提示的長照失能等級還有他的服務狀態我們現在目前是透過這個所謂系統介接\n330034\t345944\t好部長次長其實我們今天最主要我們討論很多次那當然我們也給我們衛福部來肯定針對社工的薪資這次有比照軍公教來調薪那我們是希望這個獎勵制度跟津貼\n346924\t371089\t還是要注意啦你像針對我們訪視的獎勵制度還有圍牢的津貼這部分應該要給他們多加獎勵要讓更多的人投入社工的行列然後以相對應的薪資來留住這些社工也讓更多的社工來加入避免有太多這些受害者因為社工沒有去訪視而造成這些悲劇\n372844\t400175\t跟委員補充一下這個確實就是剛剛委員所說的就是我們有社工還是有欠缺那這個部分主要是要改善他的勞動條件還有最重要是他的薪資這個部分部長他也非常非常支持所以我們在這邊社安網的部分除了原先我們的社工之外另外其他就算是他不是我們的正式社工但是我們有委外的我們現在也一律部長的支持之下我們現在目前就跟軍公教調薪3%\n401015\t407182\t好 我們希望社工社安網這部分還是要加強因為這講了很多次了好 那我們針對我們萊豬的部分我來請問一下好 請示\n414229\t441439\t那部長當時之前我們農業部陳吉仲部長那之前他在發文有跟在野的立委說沒有全世界的萊豬都會進口台灣這件事情他那時候時空背景他說那台灣允許豬肉進口那時候是13國那這13國裡面有9個國家不允許使用萊克多巴胺那包含丹麥西班牙這些國家那有使用\n442679\t470998\t萊劑的像纽西兰澳洲美国跟加拿大这四个国家那当然当时我们纽西兰因为没有出口记录那加拿大它出口它是不含萊劑那澳洲本身国内生产不使用萊劑所以那个时候只有美国出口到我们台湾含萊劑可是现在我们是不是陈吉仲部长这个说法是不是破功因为你看我们现在澳洲使用萊劑的\n472393\t497145\t豬肉已經進口到台灣來那我們衛福部是不是針對農業部這部分要做一些調查好 謝謝委員是不是署長來回應一下委員好 這邊跟委員做報告我們國內其實允許豬肉進口的20國牛肉進口其實有6國其中世界裡面允許萊克多巴胺在豬肉使用有27國\n498266\t519702\t那可以來到台灣的有六國其實這邊提到的我們提到的使用端的跟可以使用端跟進口端大概是以上的說明那進一步的因為我們面對的是現在是進口的這一塊對於我們已經設了國家的標準這個國家標準向下我們是針對萊克多巴殘留的標準\n520743\t542171\t是0.001的標準那0.01的標準PPM的標準那這個標準的前提之下我們會用到這個來做管理那這樣子管理呢其實對國內外的任何的進口的來源都一體在私有但是之前只有美國有來濟那現在澳洲的也驗出來雖然說在我們的標準之內\n542831\t564168\t可是現在以前只有美國那現在澳洲也有也難保其他的國家不會沒有那是不是針對澳洲的部分我們是不是跟農業部應該要去澳洲實地去做個瞭解是不是他們飼養的方式有加入這些萊劑導致送到台灣來的這些豬肉裡面在邊境查驗的時候驗出這個萊劑\n565419\t589685\t跟委員報告一下因為澳洲其實是允許使用萊克多巴胺的他們本身飼養就允許了所以在國內是允許的所以在面對這樣的情形我們過去沒有去澳洲茶廠是因為澳洲豬肉來到台灣的歷史是非常非常長的歷史早在農委會衛福部 農委會房檢署的時候就有房檢署的時代裡面就有了\n590245\t608423\t那就已經進來所以我們就沒有基於信賴保護原則就沒有再進一步去查查事實上沒有進一步去查查我們針對他的牛豬羊鹿肉在他們國內是一體適用的整體的查的一個查查的狀況所以我們針對那一部分在106年也做過系統性的查核\n608943\t617913\t在系統上查核之後呢在112年的1月13號其實已經公告可以允許雖然我們沒有特別針對豬的但他針對整個在國內的是豬牛羊鹿其實是一體的\n624139\t644529\t可是重點我們現在當然有源頭管理跟邊境茶葉那我們豬肉儀表板也有顯示可是現在我們針對這些豬肉產地我們有標示可是不標示萊劑那重點我們有查到有萊劑可是我們現在又不公布這個產品的流向是不是造成\n645089\t674324\t民眾對於這個汁的權利他喪失了那如果說他不要吃含有萊劑的豬肉那他完全沒辦法掌控那如果你看現在澳洲今年進口336.6公噸那我們查驗到70.24公噸就含有萊劑等於五分之一的澳洲豬肉就含有萊劑那你又不公布流向那如果他擔心吃到的話那是不是你要讓民眾就拒絕吃澳洲豬肉\n674804\t698057\t我跟委員這邊做報告一下因為這次抽到3批是在澳洲是同一家廠進來的有兩家貿易商同一家廠來這是第一個做說明第二件事情是我們針對這個豬肉牛肉的查查其實從101年的牛肉馬總統的時候開放的時候到110年的蔡總統開放豬肉的時候我們總共查出來有的牛肉是2493件\n699958\t721233\t其中這查出來是萊克多巴胺是有檢出微量檢但都是合格的0.01ppm以下其中有6批的牛肉是不合格的我知道是合格的可是基本上應該讓民眾有選擇的權利他如果他不要吃友來記得他可以挑別的那你又不公佈流向他又認為澳洲\n722194\t741810\t豬肉裡面現在最少有五分之一含有萊劑那你又不公佈流向又不標示這個萊劑那是不是變成說他只能放棄吃澳洲豬肉報告委員其實所謂的所謂的原產地的標示其實在國內國外的豬牛其實一體適用那因為\n743411\t759162\t牛肉萊克多巴胺的部分2493件裡面其實沒有超標所以沒有特別讓民眾知道那在這種前提之下民眾不至於造成恐慌因為它在我們這邊的歷史已經是14、15年的歷史\n761464\t783536\t我們是希望還是讓民眾有知的權利有選擇的權利我們衛福部針對這部分我相信其實民眾對這萊劑你說雖然吃了以後不會怎麼樣但是民眾還是會有恐慌他應該有選擇的權利我可以選擇不含萊劑的讓大家更安心謝謝委員謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 那請邱部長委員好\n部長好 針對過去我國推行長照2.0的檢討還有我們未來3.0預期推動的藍圖我們本席也跟部長在委員會討論很多次當然我們也看到衛福部的努力可是還是每個月都看到一些長照悲歌部長對我們到現在有長照2.0你覺得執行成果你還滿意嗎\n我想從長照的2.0從不管是在經費、人力、服務人數跟長照的據點還有服務的效率我剛剛在口頭報告的時候都有報告單單服務效率我們從51天變成4天我們長照據點從720次變成15000多次都是有幾十很多很多倍的一個成長照顧人力也增加了4倍所以基本上長照2.0的成果\n是應該相當紅色但是一定還是需要再努力對可是我們看到單單上週4月28號到30號就發生兩件長照被割那共有五條性命不堪照護者\n不堪負荷照顧者跟被照顧者一起走上絕路那我們現在的長照制度雖然針對我們失能程度有進行分類給予協助但是對於個案這些多重高風險的身份我們覺得他沒有給相對應更多的關懷暴露我們社安網跟我們長照資源分配在制度性的漏洞那我們之前三個禮拜\n針對新北綜合這個個案照顧者非本國籍而且他沒有替代照顧者在語言文化資源各方面邊緣屬於高風險的個案那我們各縣市身障服務中心如果依照政策落實的運作早就應該要全面盤點這一方面需要協助的個案那為什麼都沒有盤點到\n好我想高風險個案的一個盤點我想我們是一直在努力啦那至於說會發生像這樣的狀況我們真的是心裡都非常難過而且在這麼努力之下還是會發生這種情況所以我們還有改進的一個空間啦那這個部分是不是請次長跟我們\n非常感謝圖委員的一個關心那其實這個部分我想我們除了長照之外其實另外一個就是社安網社安網的部分其實主要事實上就是有高負荷您現在所說真是有高負荷那我們這裡面其實大概我們的機制主要是透過糧表的這部分他來趕快呃那個呃呈報之後然後我們會趕快列入這個整個一些高關懷的這一個的呃的那家庭那這個機那我想\n這個裡面還有另外一個是包括您剛剛所說的有關於跟跟身障照顧服務身障團體身障服務中心這邊的這個相關的整合問題那我想這個裡面的一些缺失我們確實應該也要來好好來檢討所以我們想了解一下這個問題是不是因為他出在沒有去實地訪視那沒有實地訪視我們也講過很多次是不是因為社工不足訪視員不足\n你沒有去實際了解掌握他實際的狀況那照護者他的壓力又過重所以針對這些實際的狀況我們衛福部並沒有實際掌控是不是政府對於我們社工訪視員這部分沒有好好去做然後人員不足\n報告委員 我想我們現在目前的機制就正如我剛剛所說的我們現在目前就是有長照的一個機制這邊主要是如果說民眾有任何問題主要都是用1966的專線他來跟我們提出這個需求另外一個就是剛剛委員您剛剛所說的有關於社工的部分主要是我們的社會安全網\n這邊我們的一個部分我們會來加強那我們現在目前的社工人數社安網的部分也從原先是1500我們現在目前已經增加到5000到5900那這邊\n其實即使是增加這樣的人數其實事實上真的確實還是不足所以也非常感謝也邀請委員我們這邊我們會來加強推動那這裡面我們主要事實上就是有這一個所謂的系統借街\n系統介接的部分主要事實上是剛剛說的有關於老人保護特別是有關老人保護系統這邊我們主要事實上就是這個系統我們跟照管跟這個剛剛說照管的這個平台之間的一個相互的介接讓我們的社工在受案評估可以看到個案他這裡面剛剛委員您剛剛所提示的長照失能等級還有他的服務狀態我們現在目前是透過這個所謂系統介接\n好部長次長其實我們今天最主要我們討論很多次那當然我們也給我們衛福部來肯定針對社工的薪資這次有比照軍公教來調薪那我們是希望這個獎勵制度跟津貼\n還是要注意啦你像針對我們訪視的獎勵制度還有圍牢的津貼這部分應該要給他們多加獎勵要讓更多的人投入社工的行列然後以相對應的薪資來留住這些社工也讓更多的社工來加入避免有太多這些受害者因為社工沒有去訪視而造成這些悲劇\n跟委員補充一下這個確實就是剛剛委員所說的就是我們有社工還是有欠缺那這個部分主要是要改善他的勞動條件還有最重要是他的薪資這個部分部長他也非常非常支持所以我們在這邊社安網的部分除了原先我們的社工之外另外其他就算是他不是我們的正式社工但是我們有委外的我們現在也一律部長的支持之下我們現在目前就跟軍公教調薪3%\n好 我們希望社工社安網這部分還是要加強因為這講了很多次了好 那我們針對我們萊豬的部分我來請問一下好 請示\n那部長當時之前我們農業部陳吉仲部長那之前他在發文有跟在野的立委說沒有全世界的萊豬都會進口台灣這件事情他那時候時空背景他說那台灣允許豬肉進口那時候是13國那這13國裡面有9個國家不允許使用萊克多巴胺那包含丹麥西班牙這些國家那有使用\n萊劑的像纽西兰澳洲美国跟加拿大这四个国家那当然当时我们纽西兰因为没有出口记录那加拿大它出口它是不含萊劑那澳洲本身国内生产不使用萊劑所以那个时候只有美国出口到我们台湾含萊劑可是现在我们是不是陈吉仲部长这个说法是不是破功因为你看我们现在澳洲使用萊劑的\n豬肉已經進口到台灣來那我們衛福部是不是針對農業部這部分要做一些調查好 謝謝委員是不是署長來回應一下委員好 這邊跟委員做報告我們國內其實允許豬肉進口的20國牛肉進口其實有6國其中世界裡面允許萊克多巴胺在豬肉使用有27國\n那可以來到台灣的有六國其實這邊提到的我們提到的使用端的跟可以使用端跟進口端大概是以上的說明那進一步的因為我們面對的是現在是進口的這一塊對於我們已經設了國家的標準這個國家標準向下我們是針對萊克多巴殘留的標準\n是0.001的標準那0.01的標準PPM的標準那這個標準的前提之下我們會用到這個來做管理那這樣子管理呢其實對國內外的任何的進口的來源都一體在私有但是之前只有美國有來濟那現在澳洲的也驗出來雖然說在我們的標準之內\n可是現在以前只有美國那現在澳洲也有也難保其他的國家不會沒有那是不是針對澳洲的部分我們是不是跟農業部應該要去澳洲實地去做個瞭解是不是他們飼養的方式有加入這些萊劑導致送到台灣來的這些豬肉裡面在邊境查驗的時候驗出這個萊劑\n跟委員報告一下因為澳洲其實是允許使用萊克多巴胺的他們本身飼養就允許了所以在國內是允許的所以在面對這樣的情形我們過去沒有去澳洲茶廠是因為澳洲豬肉來到台灣的歷史是非常非常長的歷史早在農委會衛福部 農委會房檢署的時候就有房檢署的時代裡面就有了\n那就已經進來所以我們就沒有基於信賴保護原則就沒有再進一步去查查事實上沒有進一步去查查我們針對他的牛豬羊鹿肉在他們國內是一體適用的整體的查的一個查查的狀況所以我們針對那一部分在106年也做過系統性的查核\n在系統上查核之後呢在112年的1月13號其實已經公告可以允許雖然我們沒有特別針對豬的但他針對整個在國內的是豬牛羊鹿其實是一體的\n可是重點我們現在當然有源頭管理跟邊境茶葉那我們豬肉儀表板也有顯示可是現在我們針對這些豬肉產地我們有標示可是不標示萊劑那重點我們有查到有萊劑可是我們現在又不公布這個產品的流向是不是造成\n民眾對於這個汁的權利他喪失了那如果說他不要吃含有萊劑的豬肉那他完全沒辦法掌控那如果你看現在澳洲今年進口336.6公噸那我們查驗到70.24公噸就含有萊劑等於五分之一的澳洲豬肉就含有萊劑那你又不公布流向那如果他擔心吃到的話那是不是你要讓民眾就拒絕吃澳洲豬肉\n我跟委員這邊做報告一下因為這次抽到3批是在澳洲是同一家廠進來的有兩家貿易商同一家廠來這是第一個做說明第二件事情是我們針對這個豬肉牛肉的查查其實從101年的牛肉馬總統的時候開放的時候到110年的蔡總統開放豬肉的時候我們總共查出來有的牛肉是2493件\n其中這查出來是萊克多巴胺是有檢出微量檢但都是合格的0.01ppm以下其中有6批的牛肉是不合格的我知道是合格的可是基本上應該讓民眾有選擇的權利他如果他不要吃友來記得他可以挑別的那你又不公佈流向他又認為澳洲\n豬肉裡面現在最少有五分之一含有萊劑那你又不公佈流向又不標示這個萊劑那是不是變成說他只能放棄吃澳洲豬肉報告委員其實所謂的所謂的原產地的標示其實在國內國外的豬牛其實一體適用那因為\n牛肉萊克多巴胺的部分2493件裡面其實沒有超標所以沒有特別讓民眾知道那在這種前提之下民眾不至於造成恐慌因為它在我們這邊的歷史已經是14、15年的歷史\n我們是希望還是讓民眾有知的權利有選擇的權利我們衛福部針對這部分我相信其實民眾對這萊劑你說雖然吃了以後不會怎麼樣但是民眾還是會有恐慌他應該有選擇的權利我可以選擇不含萊劑的讓大家更安心謝謝委員謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.793 --> 00:15.880\n好謝謝主席那請邱部長委員好\n\n00:17.314 --> 00:44.120\n部長好針對過去我國推行長照2.0的檢討還有我們未來3.0預期推動的藍圖我們本席也跟部長在委員會討論很多次當然我們也看到衛福部的努力可是還是每個月都看到一些長照悲歌部長對我們到現在有長照2.0你覺得執行成果你還滿意嗎\n\n00:46.966 --> 01:15.094\n我想從長照的2.0從不管是在經費、人力、服務人數跟長照的據點還有服務的效率我剛剛在口頭報告的時候都有報告單單服務效率我們從51天變成4天我們長照據點從720次變成15000多次都是有幾十很多很多倍的一個成長照顧人力也增加了4倍所以基本上長照2.0的成果\n\n01:15.979 --> 01:31.074\n是應該相當紅色但是一定還是需要再努力對可是我們看到單單上週4月28號到30號就發生兩件長照被割那共有五條性命不堪照護者\n\n01:32.129 --> 02:00.825\n不堪負荷照顧者跟被照顧者一起走上絕路那我們現在的長照制度雖然針對我們失能程度有進行分類給予協助但是對於個案這些多重高風險的身份我們覺得他沒有給相對應更多的關懷暴露我們社安網跟我們長照資源分配在制度性的漏洞那我們之前三個禮拜\n\n02:01.985 --> 02:27.125\n針對新北綜合這個個案照顧者非本國籍而且他沒有替代照顧者在語言文化資源各方面邊緣屬於高風險的個案那我們各縣市身障服務中心如果依照政策落實的運作早就應該要全面盤點這一方面需要協助的個案那為什麼都沒有盤點到\n\n02:28.834 --> 02:51.696\n好我想高風險個案的一個盤點我想我們是一直在努力啦那至於說會發生像這樣的狀況我們真的是心裡都非常難過而且在這麼努力之下還是會發生這種情況所以我們還有改進的一個空間啦那這個部分是不是請次長跟我們\n\n02:53.877 --> 03:18.337\n非常感謝圖委員的一個關心那其實這個部分我想我們除了長照之外其實另外一個就是社安網社安網的部分其實主要事實上就是有高負荷您現在所說真是有高負荷那我們這裡面其實大概我們的機制主要是透過糧表的這部分他來趕快呃那個呃呈報之後然後我們會趕快列入這個整個一些高關懷的這一個的呃的那家庭那這個機那我想\n\n03:19.578 --> 03:44.772\n這個裡面還有另外一個是包括您剛剛所說的有關於跟跟身障照顧服務身障團體身障服務中心這邊的這個相關的整合問題那我想這個裡面的一些缺失我們確實應該也要來好好來檢討所以我們想了解一下這個問題是不是因為他出在沒有去實地訪視那沒有實地訪視我們也講過很多次是不是因為社工不足訪視員不足\n\n03:46.693 --> 04:04.152\n你沒有去實際了解掌握他實際的狀況那照護者他的壓力又過重所以針對這些實際的狀況我們衛福部並沒有實際掌控是不是政府對於我們社工訪視員這部分沒有好好去做然後人員不足\n\n04:05.693 --> 04:27.532\n報告委員我想我們現在目前的機制就正如我剛剛所說的我們現在目前就是有長照的一個機制這邊主要是如果說民眾有任何問題主要都是用1966的專線他來跟我們提出這個需求另外一個就是剛剛委員您剛剛所說的有關於社工的部分主要是我們的社會安全網\n\n04:29.414 --> 04:42.209\n這邊我們的一個部分我們會來加強那我們現在目前的社工人數社安網的部分也從原先是1500我們現在目前已經增加到5000到5900那這邊\n\n04:45.473 --> 04:51.557\n其實即使是增加這樣的人數其實事實上真的確實還是不足所以也非常感謝也邀請委員我們這邊我們會來加強推動那這裡面我們主要事實上就是有這一個所謂的系統借街\n\n05:03.464 --> 05:29.214\n系統介接的部分主要事實上是剛剛說的有關於老人保護特別是有關老人保護系統這邊我們主要事實上就是這個系統我們跟照管跟這個剛剛說照管的這個平台之間的一個相互的介接讓我們的社工在受案評估可以看到個案他這裡面剛剛委員您剛剛所提示的長照失能等級還有他的服務狀態我們現在目前是透過這個所謂系統介接\n\n05:30.034 --> 05:45.944\n好部長次長其實我們今天最主要我們討論很多次那當然我們也給我們衛福部來肯定針對社工的薪資這次有比照軍公教來調薪那我們是希望這個獎勵制度跟津貼\n\n05:46.924 --> 06:11.089\n還是要注意啦你像針對我們訪視的獎勵制度還有圍牢的津貼這部分應該要給他們多加獎勵要讓更多的人投入社工的行列然後以相對應的薪資來留住這些社工也讓更多的社工來加入避免有太多這些受害者因為社工沒有去訪視而造成這些悲劇\n\n06:12.844 --> 06:40.175\n跟委員補充一下這個確實就是剛剛委員所說的就是我們有社工還是有欠缺那這個部分主要是要改善他的勞動條件還有最重要是他的薪資這個部分部長他也非常非常支持所以我們在這邊社安網的部分除了原先我們的社工之外另外其他就算是他不是我們的正式社工但是我們有委外的我們現在也一律部長的支持之下我們現在目前就跟軍公教調薪3%\n\n06:41.015 --> 06:47.182\n好我們希望社工社安網這部分還是要加強因為這講了很多次了好那我們針對我們萊豬的部分我來請問一下好請示\n\n06:54.229 --> 07:21.439\n那部長當時之前我們農業部陳吉仲部長那之前他在發文有跟在野的立委說沒有全世界的萊豬都會進口台灣這件事情他那時候時空背景他說那台灣允許豬肉進口那時候是13國那這13國裡面有9個國家不允許使用萊克多巴胺那包含丹麥西班牙這些國家那有使用\n\n07:22.679 --> 07:50.998\n萊劑的像纽西兰澳洲美国跟加拿大这四个国家那当然当时我们纽西兰因为没有出口记录那加拿大它出口它是不含萊劑那澳洲本身国内生产不使用萊劑所以那个时候只有美国出口到我们台湾含萊劑可是现在我们是不是陈吉仲部长这个说法是不是破功因为你看我们现在澳洲使用萊劑的\n\n07:52.393 --> 08:17.145\n豬肉已經進口到台灣來那我們衛福部是不是針對農業部這部分要做一些調查好謝謝委員是不是署長來回應一下委員好這邊跟委員做報告我們國內其實允許豬肉進口的20國牛肉進口其實有6國其中世界裡面允許萊克多巴胺在豬肉使用有27國\n\n08:18.266 --> 08:39.702\n那可以來到台灣的有六國其實這邊提到的我們提到的使用端的跟可以使用端跟進口端大概是以上的說明那進一步的因為我們面對的是現在是進口的這一塊對於我們已經設了國家的標準這個國家標準向下我們是針對萊克多巴殘留的標準\n\n08:40.743 --> 09:02.171\n是0.001的標準那0.01的標準PPM的標準那這個標準的前提之下我們會用到這個來做管理那這樣子管理呢其實對國內外的任何的進口的來源都一體在私有但是之前只有美國有來濟那現在澳洲的也驗出來雖然說在我們的標準之內\n\n09:02.831 --> 09:24.168\n可是現在以前只有美國那現在澳洲也有也難保其他的國家不會沒有那是不是針對澳洲的部分我們是不是跟農業部應該要去澳洲實地去做個瞭解是不是他們飼養的方式有加入這些萊劑導致送到台灣來的這些豬肉裡面在邊境查驗的時候驗出這個萊劑\n\n09:25.419 --> 09:49.685\n跟委員報告一下因為澳洲其實是允許使用萊克多巴胺的他們本身飼養就允許了所以在國內是允許的所以在面對這樣的情形我們過去沒有去澳洲茶廠是因為澳洲豬肉來到台灣的歷史是非常非常長的歷史早在農委會衛福部農委會房檢署的時候就有房檢署的時代裡面就有了\n\n09:50.245 --> 10:08.423\n那就已經進來所以我們就沒有基於信賴保護原則就沒有再進一步去查查事實上沒有進一步去查查我們針對他的牛豬羊鹿肉在他們國內是一體適用的整體的查的一個查查的狀況所以我們針對那一部分在106年也做過系統性的查核\n\n10:08.943 --> 10:17.913\n在系統上查核之後呢在112年的1月13號其實已經公告可以允許雖然我們沒有特別針對豬的但他針對整個在國內的是豬牛羊鹿其實是一體的\n\n10:24.139 --> 10:44.529\n可是重點我們現在當然有源頭管理跟邊境茶葉那我們豬肉儀表板也有顯示可是現在我們針對這些豬肉產地我們有標示可是不標示萊劑那重點我們有查到有萊劑可是我們現在又不公布這個產品的流向是不是造成\n\n10:45.089 --> 11:14.324\n民眾對於這個汁的權利他喪失了那如果說他不要吃含有萊劑的豬肉那他完全沒辦法掌控那如果你看現在澳洲今年進口336.6公噸那我們查驗到70.24公噸就含有萊劑等於五分之一的澳洲豬肉就含有萊劑那你又不公布流向那如果他擔心吃到的話那是不是你要讓民眾就拒絕吃澳洲豬肉\n\n11:14.804 --> 11:38.057\n我跟委員這邊做報告一下因為這次抽到3批是在澳洲是同一家廠進來的有兩家貿易商同一家廠來這是第一個做說明第二件事情是我們針對這個豬肉牛肉的查查其實從101年的牛肉馬總統的時候開放的時候到110年的蔡總統開放豬肉的時候我們總共查出來有的牛肉是2493件\n\n11:39.958 --> 12:01.233\n其中這查出來是萊克多巴胺是有檢出微量檢但都是合格的0.01ppm以下其中有6批的牛肉是不合格的我知道是合格的可是基本上應該讓民眾有選擇的權利他如果他不要吃友來記得他可以挑別的那你又不公佈流向他又認為澳洲\n\n12:02.194 --> 12:21.810\n豬肉裡面現在最少有五分之一含有萊劑那你又不公佈流向又不標示這個萊劑那是不是變成說他只能放棄吃澳洲豬肉報告委員其實所謂的所謂的原產地的標示其實在國內國外的豬牛其實一體適用那因為\n\n12:23.411 --> 12:39.162\n牛肉萊克多巴胺的部分2493件裡面其實沒有超標所以沒有特別讓民眾知道那在這種前提之下民眾不至於造成恐慌因為它在我們這邊的歷史已經是14、15年的歷史\n\n12:41.464 --> 13:03.536\n我們是希望還是讓民眾有知的權利有選擇的權利我們衛福部針對這部分我相信其實民眾對這萊劑你說雖然吃了以後不會怎麼樣但是民眾還是會有恐慌他應該有選擇的權利我可以選擇不含萊劑的讓大家更安心謝謝委員謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.793,"end":15.88,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那請邱部長委員好"},{"start":17.314,"end":44.12,"text":"部長好 針對過去我國推行長照2.0的檢討還有我們未來3.0預期推動的藍圖我們本席也跟部長在委員會討論很多次當然我們也看到衛福部的努力可是還是每個月都看到一些長照悲歌部長對我們到現在有長照2.0你覺得執行成果你還滿意嗎"},{"start":46.966,"end":75.094,"text":"我想從長照的2.0從不管是在經費、人力、服務人數跟長照的據點還有服務的效率我剛剛在口頭報告的時候都有報告單單服務效率我們從51天變成4天我們長照據點從720次變成15000多次都是有幾十很多很多倍的一個成長照顧人力也增加了4倍所以基本上長照2.0的成果"},{"start":75.979,"end":91.074,"text":"是應該相當紅色但是一定還是需要再努力對可是我們看到單單上週4月28號到30號就發生兩件長照被割那共有五條性命不堪照護者"},{"start":92.129,"end":120.825,"text":"不堪負荷照顧者跟被照顧者一起走上絕路那我們現在的長照制度雖然針對我們失能程度有進行分類給予協助但是對於個案這些多重高風險的身份我們覺得他沒有給相對應更多的關懷暴露我們社安網跟我們長照資源分配在制度性的漏洞那我們之前三個禮拜"},{"start":121.985,"end":147.125,"text":"針對新北綜合這個個案照顧者非本國籍而且他沒有替代照顧者在語言文化資源各方面邊緣屬於高風險的個案那我們各縣市身障服務中心如果依照政策落實的運作早就應該要全面盤點這一方面需要協助的個案那為什麼都沒有盤點到"},{"start":148.834,"end":171.696,"text":"好我想高風險個案的一個盤點我想我們是一直在努力啦那至於說會發生像這樣的狀況我們真的是心裡都非常難過而且在這麼努力之下還是會發生這種情況所以我們還有改進的一個空間啦那這個部分是不是請次長跟我們"},{"start":173.877,"end":198.337,"text":"非常感謝圖委員的一個關心那其實這個部分我想我們除了長照之外其實另外一個就是社安網社安網的部分其實主要事實上就是有高負荷您現在所說真是有高負荷那我們這裡面其實大概我們的機制主要是透過糧表的這部分他來趕快呃那個呃呈報之後然後我們會趕快列入這個整個一些高關懷的這一個的呃的那家庭那這個機那我想"},{"start":199.578,"end":224.772,"text":"這個裡面還有另外一個是包括您剛剛所說的有關於跟跟身障照顧服務身障團體身障服務中心這邊的這個相關的整合問題那我想這個裡面的一些缺失我們確實應該也要來好好來檢討所以我們想了解一下這個問題是不是因為他出在沒有去實地訪視那沒有實地訪視我們也講過很多次是不是因為社工不足訪視員不足"},{"start":226.693,"end":244.152,"text":"你沒有去實際了解掌握他實際的狀況那照護者他的壓力又過重所以針對這些實際的狀況我們衛福部並沒有實際掌控是不是政府對於我們社工訪視員這部分沒有好好去做然後人員不足"},{"start":245.693,"end":267.532,"text":"報告委員 我想我們現在目前的機制就正如我剛剛所說的我們現在目前就是有長照的一個機制這邊主要是如果說民眾有任何問題主要都是用1966的專線他來跟我們提出這個需求另外一個就是剛剛委員您剛剛所說的有關於社工的部分主要是我們的社會安全網"},{"start":269.414,"end":282.209,"text":"這邊我們的一個部分我們會來加強那我們現在目前的社工人數社安網的部分也從原先是1500我們現在目前已經增加到5000到5900那這邊"},{"start":285.473,"end":291.557,"text":"其實即使是增加這樣的人數其實事實上真的確實還是不足所以也非常感謝也邀請委員我們這邊我們會來加強推動那這裡面我們主要事實上就是有這一個所謂的系統借街"},{"start":303.464,"end":329.214,"text":"系統介接的部分主要事實上是剛剛說的有關於老人保護特別是有關老人保護系統這邊我們主要事實上就是這個系統我們跟照管跟這個剛剛說照管的這個平台之間的一個相互的介接讓我們的社工在受案評估可以看到個案他這裡面剛剛委員您剛剛所提示的長照失能等級還有他的服務狀態我們現在目前是透過這個所謂系統介接"},{"start":330.034,"end":345.944,"text":"好部長次長其實我們今天最主要我們討論很多次那當然我們也給我們衛福部來肯定針對社工的薪資這次有比照軍公教來調薪那我們是希望這個獎勵制度跟津貼"},{"start":346.924,"end":371.089,"text":"還是要注意啦你像針對我們訪視的獎勵制度還有圍牢的津貼這部分應該要給他們多加獎勵要讓更多的人投入社工的行列然後以相對應的薪資來留住這些社工也讓更多的社工來加入避免有太多這些受害者因為社工沒有去訪視而造成這些悲劇"},{"start":372.844,"end":400.175,"text":"跟委員補充一下這個確實就是剛剛委員所說的就是我們有社工還是有欠缺那這個部分主要是要改善他的勞動條件還有最重要是他的薪資這個部分部長他也非常非常支持所以我們在這邊社安網的部分除了原先我們的社工之外另外其他就算是他不是我們的正式社工但是我們有委外的我們現在也一律部長的支持之下我們現在目前就跟軍公教調薪3%"},{"start":401.015,"end":407.182,"text":"好 我們希望社工社安網這部分還是要加強因為這講了很多次了好 那我們針對我們萊豬的部分我來請問一下好 請示"},{"start":414.229,"end":441.439,"text":"那部長當時之前我們農業部陳吉仲部長那之前他在發文有跟在野的立委說沒有全世界的萊豬都會進口台灣這件事情他那時候時空背景他說那台灣允許豬肉進口那時候是13國那這13國裡面有9個國家不允許使用萊克多巴胺那包含丹麥西班牙這些國家那有使用"},{"start":442.679,"end":470.998,"text":"萊劑的像纽西兰澳洲美国跟加拿大这四个国家那当然当时我们纽西兰因为没有出口记录那加拿大它出口它是不含萊劑那澳洲本身国内生产不使用萊劑所以那个时候只有美国出口到我们台湾含萊劑可是现在我们是不是陈吉仲部长这个说法是不是破功因为你看我们现在澳洲使用萊劑的"},{"start":472.393,"end":497.145,"text":"豬肉已經進口到台灣來那我們衛福部是不是針對農業部這部分要做一些調查好 謝謝委員是不是署長來回應一下委員好 這邊跟委員做報告我們國內其實允許豬肉進口的20國牛肉進口其實有6國其中世界裡面允許萊克多巴胺在豬肉使用有27國"},{"start":498.266,"end":519.702,"text":"那可以來到台灣的有六國其實這邊提到的我們提到的使用端的跟可以使用端跟進口端大概是以上的說明那進一步的因為我們面對的是現在是進口的這一塊對於我們已經設了國家的標準這個國家標準向下我們是針對萊克多巴殘留的標準"},{"start":520.743,"end":542.171,"text":"是0.001的標準那0.01的標準PPM的標準那這個標準的前提之下我們會用到這個來做管理那這樣子管理呢其實對國內外的任何的進口的來源都一體在私有但是之前只有美國有來濟那現在澳洲的也驗出來雖然說在我們的標準之內"},{"start":542.831,"end":564.168,"text":"可是現在以前只有美國那現在澳洲也有也難保其他的國家不會沒有那是不是針對澳洲的部分我們是不是跟農業部應該要去澳洲實地去做個瞭解是不是他們飼養的方式有加入這些萊劑導致送到台灣來的這些豬肉裡面在邊境查驗的時候驗出這個萊劑"},{"start":565.419,"end":589.685,"text":"跟委員報告一下因為澳洲其實是允許使用萊克多巴胺的他們本身飼養就允許了所以在國內是允許的所以在面對這樣的情形我們過去沒有去澳洲茶廠是因為澳洲豬肉來到台灣的歷史是非常非常長的歷史早在農委會衛福部 農委會房檢署的時候就有房檢署的時代裡面就有了"},{"start":590.245,"end":608.423,"text":"那就已經進來所以我們就沒有基於信賴保護原則就沒有再進一步去查查事實上沒有進一步去查查我們針對他的牛豬羊鹿肉在他們國內是一體適用的整體的查的一個查查的狀況所以我們針對那一部分在106年也做過系統性的查核"},{"start":608.943,"end":617.913,"text":"在系統上查核之後呢在112年的1月13號其實已經公告可以允許雖然我們沒有特別針對豬的但他針對整個在國內的是豬牛羊鹿其實是一體的"},{"start":624.139,"end":644.529,"text":"可是重點我們現在當然有源頭管理跟邊境茶葉那我們豬肉儀表板也有顯示可是現在我們針對這些豬肉產地我們有標示可是不標示萊劑那重點我們有查到有萊劑可是我們現在又不公布這個產品的流向是不是造成"},{"start":645.089,"end":674.324,"text":"民眾對於這個汁的權利他喪失了那如果說他不要吃含有萊劑的豬肉那他完全沒辦法掌控那如果你看現在澳洲今年進口336.6公噸那我們查驗到70.24公噸就含有萊劑等於五分之一的澳洲豬肉就含有萊劑那你又不公布流向那如果他擔心吃到的話那是不是你要讓民眾就拒絕吃澳洲豬肉"},{"start":674.804,"end":698.057,"text":"我跟委員這邊做報告一下因為這次抽到3批是在澳洲是同一家廠進來的有兩家貿易商同一家廠來這是第一個做說明第二件事情是我們針對這個豬肉牛肉的查查其實從101年的牛肉馬總統的時候開放的時候到110年的蔡總統開放豬肉的時候我們總共查出來有的牛肉是2493件"},{"start":699.958,"end":721.233,"text":"其中這查出來是萊克多巴胺是有檢出微量檢但都是合格的0.01ppm以下其中有6批的牛肉是不合格的我知道是合格的可是基本上應該讓民眾有選擇的權利他如果他不要吃友來記得他可以挑別的那你又不公佈流向他又認為澳洲"},{"start":722.194,"end":741.81,"text":"豬肉裡面現在最少有五分之一含有萊劑那你又不公佈流向又不標示這個萊劑那是不是變成說他只能放棄吃澳洲豬肉報告委員其實所謂的所謂的原產地的標示其實在國內國外的豬牛其實一體適用那因為"},{"start":743.411,"end":759.162,"text":"牛肉萊克多巴胺的部分2493件裡面其實沒有超標所以沒有特別讓民眾知道那在這種前提之下民眾不至於造成恐慌因為它在我們這邊的歷史已經是14、15年的歷史"},{"start":761.464,"end":783.536,"text":"我們是希望還是讓民眾有知的權利有選擇的權利我們衛福部針對這部分我相信其實民眾對這萊劑你說雖然吃了以後不會怎麼樣但是民眾還是會有恐慌他應該有選擇的權利我可以選擇不含萊劑的讓大家更安心謝謝委員謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":567,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（10時48分）謝謝主席。請邱部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["涂委員權吉：部長好。針對過去我國推行長照2.0的檢討，還有未來3.0預期推動的藍圖，本席跟部長在委員會討論很多次，當然也看到衛福部的努力，可是還是每個月都看到一些長照悲歌。現在長照2.0的執行成果，你還滿意嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：長照2.0不管是在經費、人力、服務人數跟長照的據點，還有服務的效率，我剛剛在口頭報告的時候都有報告，單單服務效率從51天變成4天，長照據點從724個變成一萬五千多個，都是有很多倍的成長，照顧人力也增加了4倍，基本上長照2.0的成果應該是相當豐碩，但一定還是需要再努力。"],["涂委員權吉：可是我們看到單單上週的4月28號到30號就發生兩件長照悲歌，共有五條性命喪失，都是照護者不堪負荷，導致照顧者跟被照顧者一起走上絕路。現在的長照制度雖然針對失能程度有進行分類、給予協助，但是對於個案多重高風險的身分，沒有給相對應更多的關懷，暴露社安網跟長照資源分配制度性的漏洞。上個禮拜新北中和這個個案，照顧者非本國籍而且沒有替代照顧者，在語言、文化、資源各方面邊緣，屬於高風險個案。各縣市身障服務中心如果依照政策落實運作，早就應該要全面盤點這方面需要協助的個案，為什麼都沒有盤點到？"],["邱部長泰源：有關高風險個案的盤點，我們一直在努力，至於發生像這樣的狀況，我們心裡真的都非常難過，而且在這麼努力之下，竟還會發生這種情況，所以還有改進的空間。這個部分是不是請次長具體回答一下？"],["呂次長建德：非常感謝涂委員的關心。這個部分除了長照之外，另外一個就是社安網，社安網主要就是針對高負荷，您現在所說的這個個案屬於高負荷，裡面的機制主要是透過量表，陳報之後會趕快列入高關懷家庭等等。還有另外一個是您剛剛所說的，有關身障服務中心相關人員的整合問題，針對這裡面的一些缺失，我們確實也應該要好好來檢討。"],["涂委員權吉：我想了解一下這個問題是不是因為出在沒有去實地訪視？我們也講過很多次，沒有實地訪視是不是因為社工不足、訪視員不足，沒有去實際了解、掌握實際的狀況，照護者的壓力又過重？所以針對這些實際的狀況，衛福部並沒有實際掌控，是不是政府對於社工、訪視員這部分沒有好好去做，然後人員不足？"],["呂次長建德：誠如我剛剛所說，目前有長照的機制，如果民眾有任何問題，主要都是用1966專線跟我們提出需求。另外一個就是委員剛剛所說的，有關社工的部分主要是在社會安全網，我們會來加強。目前社安網的社工人數從原先1,500人，已經增加到5,900人，即使增加這樣人數，事實上真的、確實還是不足……"],["涂委員權吉：還是不夠，對不對？"],["呂次長建德：所以我們會來加強推動。這裡面主要就是有所謂的系統介接，系統介接事實上是剛剛說的，特別是有關老人保護系統，主要是這個系統跟照管平臺之間的相互介接，讓社工在受案評估可以看到委員剛剛所提示的個案長照失能等級，還有服務狀態，我們目前是透過這個系統介接。"],["涂委員權吉：今天有個議題我們討論很多次，當然我也要肯定衛福部，就是這次社工的薪資有比照軍公教來調薪。"],["呂次長建德：是，沒錯，這是部長……"],["涂委員權吉：我們希望還是要注意這個獎勵制度跟津貼，針對訪視獎勵制度，還有危勞津貼，應該要給他們多加獎勵，讓更多的人投入社工的行列，以相對應的薪資留住這些社工，也讓更多社工加入，避免有太多受害者因為社工沒有去訪視而造成悲劇。"],["呂次長建德：我也跟委員補充一下，確實就是剛剛委員所說的，社工還是有欠缺，這個部分主要是要改善勞動條件，還有最重要的是薪資。這個部分部長也非常支持，所以在社安網的部分，除了原先的社工之外，另外就算是委外、不是我們的正式社工，在部長的支持之下，現在也一律跟軍公教一樣調薪3%。"],["涂委員權吉：我們希望社工、社安網還是要加強，因為講了很多次。"],["呂次長建德：好的。"],["涂委員權吉：針對萊豬，我來請問一下部長，之前農業部陳吉仲部長有發文跟在野立委說，沒有全世界的萊豬都會進口臺灣這件事情，他說臺灣允許豬肉進口，那時候的時空背景是13國，這13國裡面有9個國家不允許使用萊克多巴胺，包含丹麥、西班牙這些國家，有使用萊劑的是紐西蘭、澳洲、美國跟加拿大這4個國家。當時紐西蘭沒有出口紀錄，加拿大出口的不含萊劑，澳洲國內本身生產不使用萊劑，所以那個時候只有美國出口到臺灣含萊劑。可是現在陳吉仲部長的這個說法是不是破功？因為你看現在澳洲使用萊劑的豬肉已經進口到臺灣，衛福部是不是針對農業部這部分要做一些調查？"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員，由署長來回應一下。"],["姜署長至剛：委員好。國內允許豬肉進口有20國，牛肉進口有6國，其中世界上允許萊克多巴胺在豬肉使用的有27國，可以來到臺灣的有6國，這邊提到的是可以使用端跟進口端，大概是以上說明。進一步說明，因為我們現在面對的是進口的這一塊，而我們已經設了國家標準，在這個國家標準項下，針對萊克多巴胺殘留的標準是0.01ppm。在這個標準的前提之下，我們會照這個來管理，這樣的管理對國內外任何的進口來源都一體適用。"],["涂委員權吉：但是之前只有美國的有萊劑，現在澳洲的也驗出來，雖然在標準之內，可是以前只有美國，現在澳洲也有，難保其他國家沒有。針對澳洲的部分，你們是不是應該跟農業部去澳洲實地了解？是不是他們飼養的方式有加入萊劑，導致送到臺灣的這些豬肉，在邊境查驗的時候驗出萊劑？"],["姜署長至剛：因為歐洲允許使用萊克多巴胺，他們本身飼養就允許了，所以在國內是允許的。在面對這樣的情形，我們過去沒有去澳洲查廠，因為澳洲豬肉來到臺灣是非常長的歷史，早在農委會防檢局的時代就有。"],["涂委員權吉：可是以前查驗是沒有的，對不對？"],["姜署長至剛：防檢局的時代就有了、就已經進來，所以基於信賴保護原則，我們就沒有再進一步去查廠。事實上，雖然沒有進一步去查廠，但他們的牛、豬、羊、鹿肉在他們國內是一體適用整體查廠的狀況，所以我們針對那部分在106年也做過系統性的查核，在系統性查核之後，在112年1月13號已經公告可以允許。雖然我們沒有特別針對豬，但針對整個在國內的豬、牛、羊、鹿是一體的，所以我們才沒去。"],["涂委員權吉：雖然現在有源頭管理跟邊境查驗，豬肉儀表板會顯示，也有標示豬肉的產地，可是不標示萊劑。重點在於我們有查到有萊劑，可是現在又不公布產品流向，是不是造成民眾喪失了知的權利？如果不想要吃含有萊劑的豬肉，卻完全沒辦法掌控。今年從澳洲進口336.6公噸，查驗到70.24公噸含有萊劑，等於五分之一的澳洲豬肉含有萊劑，但你們又不公布流向，如果民眾擔心吃到的話，是不是要讓他就拒絕吃澳洲豬肉？"],["姜署長至剛：這次抽到三批是澳洲同一家廠進來的，有兩家貿易商從同一家廠來，這是第一個說明。第二件事情是針對豬肉、牛肉的查察，從101年馬總統時代開放牛肉進口之後，到110年蔡總統開放豬肉，總共查出有萊劑的牛肉是2,493件，其中查出有萊克多巴胺的都是微量檢出，但都是合格的，0.01ppm以下，其中有6批的牛肉是不合格的，被退驗。"],["涂委員權吉：我知道是合格的，可是基本上應該讓民眾有選擇的權利，如果他不要吃有萊劑的，他可以挑別的，那你又不公布流向，他又認為澳洲豬肉裡面現在最少有五分之一含有萊劑，你不公布流向，又不標示萊劑，是不是變成他只能放棄吃澳洲豬肉？"],["姜署長至剛：報告委員，其實所謂的原產地標示，在國內、國外的豬、牛一體適用，因為牛肉萊克多巴胺的部分2,493件裡面就是沒有超標，所以沒有特別讓民眾知道，那在這種前提之下，民眾不至於造成恐慌，因為它在我們這邊的歷史已經是14、15年的歷史，這個14、15年的歷史，我希望他們能夠安心。"],["涂委員權吉：我們是希望還是讓民眾有知的權利、有選擇的權利，衛福部，針對這部分，我相信其實民眾對萊劑，你說雖然吃了以後不會怎麼樣，但是民眾還是會恐慌，他應該有選擇的權利，他可以選擇不含萊劑的。謝謝。"],["姜署長至剛：讓大家更安心，謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝涂委員，謝謝部長。"],["主席（涂委員權吉代）：謝謝，接下來請蘇清泉委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":256,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-10","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","林淑芬","涂權吉","黃秀芳","王正旭","陳瑩","廖偉翔","陳培瑜","李坤城","徐富癸","楊瓊瓔","楊曜","劉書彬","劉建國","黃國昌","顏寬恒","張嘉郡","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","翁曉玲"],"page_start":163,"meetingDate":["2025-05-08"],"gazette_id":"1144701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請衛生福利部部長就「長照2.0執行情形檢討及3.0未來規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢；\n二、邀請衛生福利部部長就「澳洲進口豬腳驗出含萊克多巴胺，如何加強肉品食安查驗，讓民眾\n放心」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144701_00004"}}}