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\"那當然我也覺得我可以跟院長一起來看一下美方對我們有什麼具體的建議那為什麼會提古麗妍是因為她從三月開始不管是在她自己個人還有她去演講的場合其中包括我跟賴清德總統都同時出席的美國商會她都有講到這樣子的話那昨天呢她也發文了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 129.973, \"end\": 130.353, \"score\": 0.731}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 130.353, \"end\": 130.534, \"score\": 0.72}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 130.534, \"end\": 130.694, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 130.694, \"end\": 131.034, \"score\": 0.718}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 131.034, \"end\": 131.354, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 131.354, \"end\": 131.494, \"score\": 0.696}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 131.494, \"end\": 131.594, \"score\": 0.702}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 131.594, \"end\": 131.654, \"score\": 0.385}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 131.654, \"end\": 131.774, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 131.774, \"end\": 132.135, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 132.135, \"end\": 132.295, \"score\": 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0.993}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 147.166, \"end\": 147.306, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 147.306, \"end\": 147.426, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 147.426, \"end\": 147.866, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 147.866, \"end\": 148.767, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"她\", \"start\": 148.767, \"end\": 148.987, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 148.987, \"end\": 149.127, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 149.127, \"end\": 149.527, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 149.527, \"end\": 150.148, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 150.148, \"end\": 150.268, \"score\": 0.762}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 150.268, \"end\": 151.048, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 151.048, \"end\": 151.248, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"昨\", \"start\": 151.248, \"end\": 151.489, 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00:01:21,400\n我們用LNG天然氣來轉換成來取代煤這是一個橋接的過程在國家的能源政策上面這是橋接過程所必須要面臨的當然我們也知道儲存的期間運送的方式對國家的挑戰是很大的但是相較底下如果讓繼續燃燒煤的話對國人的健康空氣的污染\n\n4\n00:01:21,940 --> 00:01:48,863\n減碳淨零的目標更遙遠不過不管是煤或者是天然氣其實它還是海運的依賴性非常大但是輕重有別我現在等一下還會再給你看一些國外的智庫或者是媒體或是學者給您的一些資料事實上美方給過我們非常多的建議那我相信卓院長也有聆聽他們對我們軍事方面的建議對吧\n\n5\n00:01:49,810 --> 00:02:09,453\n也有討論過一些機會當然最近他們非常頻繁的從3月之後也許是因為全世界都知道我們5月17號以後核電就沒有了我們就是成為正式的非核家園所以全世界有在注意我們的能源政策還有我們的國安危機等等的\n\n6\n00:02:09,973 --> 00:02:33,050\n那當然我也覺得我可以跟院長一起來看一下美方對我們有什麼具體的建議那為什麼會提古麗妍是因為她從三月開始不管是在她自己個人還有她去演講的場合其中包括我跟賴清德總統都同時出席的美國商會她都有講到這樣子的話那昨天呢她也發文了\n\n7\n00:02:33,390 --> 00:03:02,682\n他還發到AIT官方的粉絲專頁上面他講到說其實美國願意盡全力來協助解決台灣的能源需求包括在核能方面美國準備好例如小型的反應爐SMR也樂意幫助台灣解決核廢料儲存的挑戰因為你也知道我們在教育委員會討論的時候其實許多委員還是提到核廢料這樣子的問題\n\n8\n00:03:03,382 --> 00:03:29,939\n所以美方已經提出關於核能不管是願意協助您的方案或者是您覺得很燙手的這個核廢料的問題不知道您有沒有希望可以跟他們達成一個合作或是跟他們有初步的對話呢好報告委員三項原則是我們一直對外來宣布第一個就是核能的安全沒有顧慮第二是核廢料有適當的去處第三個就是當社會有共識所以\n\n9\n00:03:31,069 --> 00:03:52,275\n我是沒有辦法很確定要如何幫我們處理核廢料那我們現在已經有很多核廢料沒有辦法處理那你還問我說核廢料放在我家我要不要收多少錢其實他只是釋出了一個您可以去找他對談或是找他合作他開了一個窗口我現在只是問您有沒有願意去跟他談論這些\n\n10\n00:03:54,488 --> 00:04:10,840\n我們對於新的核能跟解決現在目前傳統核能的問題我們都樂於採取開放態度找任何專家來談找任何可以解決的方式共同來研究非常好那我也期待未來可以看到您跟鼓勵員或是AIP可以有一個這樣子的會談\n\n11\n00:04:12,481 --> 00:04:41,349\n他之前在接受台北時報的專訪也有講到說很多美國其實想要來擴大投資比如說AI但是因為我們高度的依賴進口所以很容易受到封鎖的影響他也在這篇採訪中有提到說包括美國包括日本都有重啟核能另外像我們胃黃委員會有去核三做一個考察不管是專家學者的評估或者是美國舉出許多核電研議安全的例子\n\n12\n00:04:42,449 --> 00:05:10,836\n他們是準備好了要幫我們所以我只是想知道在這個這麼急迫的時間因為下一篇媒體其實也蠻急的很多國際焦點都在台灣其實他們都蠻急的我知道院長對於剛上面三個方向也講了很久我聽了您跟許多委員的答詢我只想知道說你有沒有一個期程會去做我們可以開啟這個對話的窗口你說新的核能技術嗎\n\n13\n00:05:11,966 --> 00:05:25,913\n是就是美國所提到的他願意協助我們的核廢料主體等等剛剛處長有提到SMR我們知道SMR還在一個相當漫長的研究的階段他要商轉可能還有一個相當長的時間\n\n14\n00:05:27,054 --> 00:05:41,719\n但是我們也願意在這個時候就來討論甚至在技術上如果可以增進我們未來能源的穩定的話當然是可以討論的一個話題那現在我們也在四方各方去尋求各種在新進技術上面的各種資訊\n\n15\n00:05:43,117 --> 00:06:08,144\n好那我希望看到你們有正式的這樣子會談接下來我們要給你看這個華爾街日報他所評論的他的標題其實寫的讓大家也覺得對於能源政策是不是符合我們的國家安全感到緊張了他說其實北京是喜歡台灣非核家園的他認為台灣把自己弄到能源的脆弱性是自找的\n\n16\n00:06:08,524 --> 00:06:37,217\n因為我們現在您剛提到很多再生能源可是再生能源之前有開了一些支票這些支票的比例是跳票的那我們現在又貿然把核電全部停掉更是加大了我們最依賴海運的天然氣或是煤大家都已經點出相同的一個問題了所以我現在也想要知道說您會不會願意聆聽這些國際專家們的建議把這些建議全部納為您未來一個考量\n\n17\n00:06:37,870 --> 00:06:59,503\n是的,雖然我們也非常的了解多元發展綠能台灣自己的產業跟國際大廠來都需要買綠電這個前提是一直存在的那我們還是認為說多元發展綠能是我們整個能源穩定供電當中一環重點還是尋求安全穩定的供電這個是政府最高的原則\n\n18\n00:07:00,478 --> 00:07:26,886\n但是現在的前提是當大家國際社會對你的能源安全有疑慮的時候你是不是綠電你還沒有辦法達到您所開出來的支票的比例那中間是不是有其他的替代方案嗎跟委員報告到2032年之前我們新的電廠我們從南部的這個大林還有中部的通宵\n\n19\n00:07:27,981 --> 00:07:38,312\n還有台中還有南部的興達北部的大潭跟協和六大電廠如果完成加上民營的IPP民營電廠我們的供電量是足以應付的\n\n20\n00:08:06,462 --> 00:08:31,412\n要走向全世界不能專聽一個國家或是少數國家的意見我剛講的Economist是歐洲的我們都要聽大家的意見我也曾經上網去找很多國際的媒體有沒有其他的利潤基礎但是現在一致都是很擔心我們的韌性所以在這邊就是提醒院長那剛剛院長也做了一個結論也就是我們是OK的\n\n21\n00:08:32,092 --> 00:08:46,388\n剛院長做了結論嘛我們就在這邊留下一個記錄我們自己的電廠跟民營電廠都工程順利完成情況底下我們是安全無虞的現在我們的責任就是讓這些電廠能夠依時序來上路好我們下一個\n\n22\n00:08:46,949 --> 00:09:01,881\n想要提到這個是我們的陳時中政委他在四月底的時候接受了天下雜誌的專訪他的標題就寫到說台灣的生育率全球後短半他也蠻擔心的因為落後日本\n\n23\n00:09:02,621 --> 00:09:24,063\n倒數第二現在南韓正在激起直衝再來他說我們年輕人撫養老人很快在幾十年以內就會從2比1變成1比1他有提到幾個重點比如他認為我們補貼的其實是不足的等一下我引用一些數據\n\n24\n00:09:26,345 --> 00:09:51,632\n這個標題就提到說他認同台灣的單身女性想生孩子而且政府必須要支持最後呢他有講到說我們的環境職場的環境不夠友善育兒這個相信上次我們兩個也一起討論過今天我們要再更深入的去探討所以第一點我們就是要講的是上個會期非常非常可惜啦我覺得最後可能有一點流於這個\n\n25\n00:09:54,264 --> 00:10:23,661\n民進黨扛不太住內部的政治壓力最後呢是署長還有部長說雖然提出來的草案現在可能各個委員還沒有辦法達到共識不過他們其實早就準備好了A版跟B版所以隨時都可以再拿出來選擇先把人工生殖法脫鉤那脫鉤的話當然對於許多的單身女性也是樂見其成因為他們的卵巢他們的卵子沒有辦法遭受這樣子年齡上的等待嘛\n\n26\n00:10:24,201 --> 00:10:37,033\n所以至今呢你們說當時你們手上就已經備好兩個版本了那現在已經過了四個月了我是希望知道說什麼時候行政院才可以送到立法院這樣子的你們早就準備好的版本\n\n27\n00:10:40,700 --> 00:10:59,239\n因為這個人工生殖法正如委員所提的我們是經過預告然後聽很多的聲音以後其實部長你很簡單的給我大概一個月、兩個月、三個月、半年你稍微給我一個數字就好大家關心這個議題的人是想要知道一個時程應該在\n\n28\n00:11:03,849 --> 00:11:11,163\n下個會期前會下個會期以前好那這個就是本席需要知道的答案就這樣子而已謝謝部長\n\n29\n00:11:13,220 --> 00:11:33,854\n再來我們看這個圖主委長已經看過非常多次了2019年蔡英文喊出0到6歲國家一起養的政策以後我們台灣的新生兒人數是這個降的速度實在是太快了不忍心看啦越跌越快龍年比兔年少原本你們預期的高點這個也是大家都已經問過你的\n\n30\n00:11:34,875 --> 00:11:53,360\n那這邊呢他在專訪中陳正偉在專訪中講到說對比其他面臨少子化危機的國家比如說法國或日本他認為我們投資的比例是低的你有沒有機會我們可以把這樣子總預算的比例再來拉高呢您覺得您認同嗎這個報告委員\n\n31\n00:11:58,252 --> 00:12:11,563\n國家的財政能力持續在改善當中所以我覺得我們更有能力來面對這樣的問題而且少子女化的問題是國安問題我們承諾在明年的預算當中一定想辦法來寬裂人口對策的這個方式\n\n32\n00:12:14,125 --> 00:12:41,145\n是那陳時中政委他有一個蠻具體而且他應該訪查過非常多的人所提出的他認為啦現在政府所提供的育兒津貼零零總總第一個很難選擇第二個你要到處去蒐集那我試算過了如果我們就台北市來看啊你把每一個津貼都領完可能還不到兩萬塊但是政委他認為覺得一定要讓人民有感有感他認為是折合台幣三萬元\n\n33\n00:12:42,426 --> 00:12:55,228\n他這樣子才會有感才讓年輕人有動力來生小孩不曉得我們這邊是不是有機會可以努力的去配合到他認為這個有感的方案現在我們正進入到明年\n\n34\n00:12:56,746 --> 00:13:19,971\n總預算概算的構想當中但是一方面因為國際的情勢到底是變化萬千我們恆珠國內我們自己的財政能力我剛剛已經答應過委員了在人口對策的這個向下我們會想盡辦法來編列寬裕的是的我這邊也只是希望您可以在一個月內給我一個可行性的評估跟報告好嗎\n\n35\n00:13:20,919 --> 00:13:26,963\n我們就把我們的概算一直往前走我覺得大概就可以了解到我們的方向最後我要講這個\n\n36\n00:13:29,970 --> 00:13:53,949\n彈性工時彈性的育兒這是陳時中政委也很重視因為他說企業必須要依照員工來提供相對應的彈性價因為人力很吃緊而且台灣八成是中小企業這個事辦計畫真的做得非常的差我在這邊先給您看一段我質詢等一下可以跟你邀到一個書面資料你已經找誰做的溝通跟統整\n\n37\n00:13:54,469 --> 00:13:59,772\n部長在委員會的質詢的時候是跟我說他跟很多的機關團體都做過討論不過他沒有留下會議記錄非常的可惜那這個他還講不出什麼時候可以開始事辦計畫但我也用他之前的質詢來告訴院長他遇到什麼問題\n\n38\n00:14:19,181 --> 00:14:39,544\n各位我們都很清楚可是我們必須起步我們不能再逃避這個問題了院長現在擺在眼前的是我們接下來的這個狀況會越惡劣問題會越大會越不公平性別不平等問題也會更加劇這是現在的問題所以就算沒辦法完全解決我們也必須面對現在是我們這個時間點已經不得不做的事情所以我很希望我們可以從行政院的角度來去處理這個問題我也不希望只是丟給勞動部\n\n39\n00:14:40,185 --> 00:14:59,835\n他從2023年的年底您可以看得出來洪部長非常的急我覺得甚至他這個急迫的程度是更甚於我啦他從2023年年底就很關心這樣子的議題請問您可以在一個月內也可以評估這個可行性嗎因為我們已經從2023年我就用\n\n40\n00:15:00,615 --> 00:15:09,824\n洪偉仁當時的質詢來告訴你遇到的困境是因為院長必須要整合衛福部還有勞動部才能夠一起做到可不可以在公務部門做事辦計畫\n\n41\n00:15:11,251 --> 00:15:34,373\n我覺得洪委員到洪部長熱情絲毫沒有改變那個跟陳委員報告到目前為止我們都還非常非常積極的跟包括跟相關的團體跟產業跟企業在討論彈性暈流停的事辦的方案我們希望能夠做得更到位甚至更彈性多久以內我們可以看到這個院長所主持的可行性報告\n\n42\n00:15:56,279 --> 00:16:04,525\n好谢谢陈金威委员子谢谢卓院长卫福部还有劳动部两位部长的背景谢谢接下来我们请林淑芬委员子马文君委员请准备\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n166\t19008\t主席好各位官員卓院長大家好還有媒體朋友我想首先請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n29703\t57126\t主委好相信您對這個Economist已經被詢問非常多了但本席今天比較關心的是上禮拜其實我有延續問到天然氣這個問題我想問的是他點出我們台灣的一個國安問題也就是我們能源的海運依賴性他計算出來我們的能源海運依賴性達到97.3%我想請教院長你有沒有什麼解決下降這個依賴性的方案或是方法\n58390\t81400\t我們用LNG天然氣來轉換成來取代煤這是一個橋接的過程在國家的能源政策上面這是橋接過程所必須要面臨的當然我們也知道儲存的期間運送的方式對國家的挑戰是很大的但是相較底下如果讓繼續燃燒煤的話對國人的健康空氣的污染\n81940\t108863\t減碳淨零的目標更遙遠不過不管是煤或者是天然氣其實它還是海運的依賴性非常大但是輕重有別我現在等一下還會再給你看一些國外的智庫或者是媒體或是學者給您的一些資料事實上美方給過我們非常多的建議那我相信卓院長也有聆聽他們對我們軍事方面的建議對吧\n109810\t129453\t也有討論過一些機會當然最近他們非常頻繁的從3月之後也許是因為全世界都知道我們5月17號以後核電就沒有了我們就是成為正式的非核家園所以全世界有在注意我們的能源政策還有我們的國安危機等等的\n129973\t153050\t那當然我也覺得我可以跟院長一起來看一下美方對我們有什麼具體的建議那為什麼會提古麗妍是因為她從三月開始不管是在她自己個人還有她去演講的場合其中包括我跟賴清德總統都同時出席的美國商會她都有講到這樣子的話那昨天呢她也發文了\n153390\t182682\t他還發到AIT官方的粉絲專頁上面他講到說其實美國願意盡全力來協助解決台灣的能源需求包括在核能方面美國準備好例如小型的反應爐SMR也樂意幫助台灣解決核廢料儲存的挑戰因為你也知道我們在教育委員會討論的時候其實許多委員還是提到核廢料這樣子的問題\n183382\t209939\t所以美方已經提出關於核能不管是願意協助您的方案或者是您覺得很燙手的這個核廢料的問題不知道您有沒有希望可以跟他們達成一個合作或是跟他們有初步的對話呢好 報告委員三項原則是我們一直對外來宣布第一個就是核能的安全沒有顧慮第二是核廢料有適當的去處第三個就是當社會有共識所以\n211069\t232275\t我是沒有辦法很確定要如何幫我們處理核廢料那我們現在已經有很多核廢料沒有辦法處理那你還問我說核廢料放在我家我要不要收多少錢其實他只是釋出了一個您可以去找他對談或是找他合作他開了一個窗口我現在只是問您有沒有願意去跟他談論這些\n234488\t250840\t我們對於新的核能跟解決現在目前傳統核能的問題我們都樂於採取開放態度找任何專家來談找任何可以解決的方式共同來研究非常好那我也期待未來可以看到您跟鼓勵員或是AIP可以有一個這樣子的會談\n252481\t281349\t他之前在接受台北時報的專訪也有講到說很多美國其實想要來擴大投資比如說AI但是因為我們高度的依賴進口所以很容易受到封鎖的影響他也在這篇採訪中有提到說包括美國包括日本都有重啟核能另外像我們胃黃委員會有去核三做一個考察不管是專家學者的評估或者是美國舉出許多核電研議安全的例子\n282449\t310836\t他們是準備好了要幫我們所以我只是想知道在這個這麼急迫的時間因為下一篇媒體其實也蠻急的很多國際焦點都在台灣其實他們都蠻急的我知道院長對於剛上面三個方向也講了很久我聽了您跟許多委員的答詢我只想知道說你有沒有一個期程會去做我們可以開啟這個對話的窗口你說新的核能技術嗎\n311966\t325913\t是 就是美國所提到的他願意協助我們的核廢料主體等等剛剛處長有提到SMR我們知道SMR還在一個相當漫長的研究的階段他要商轉可能還有一個相當長的時間\n327054\t341719\t但是我們也願意在這個時候就來討論甚至在技術上如果可以增進我們未來能源的穩定的話當然是可以討論的一個話題那現在我們也在四方各方去尋求各種在新進技術上面的各種資訊\n343117\t368144\t好那我希望看到你們有正式的這樣子會談接下來我們要給你看這個華爾街日報他所評論的他的標題其實寫的讓大家也覺得對於能源政策是不是符合我們的國家安全感到緊張了他說其實北京是喜歡台灣非核家園的他認為台灣把自己弄到能源的脆弱性是自找的\n368524\t397217\t因為我們現在您剛提到很多再生能源可是再生能源之前有開了一些支票這些支票的比例是跳票的那我們現在又貿然把核電全部停掉更是加大了我們最依賴海運的天然氣或是煤大家都已經點出相同的一個問題了所以我現在也想要知道說您會不會願意聆聽這些國際專家們的建議把這些建議全部納為您未來一個考量\n397870\t419503\t是的,雖然我們也非常的了解多元發展綠能台灣自己的產業跟國際大廠來都需要買綠電這個前提是一直存在的那我們還是認為說多元發展綠能是我們整個能源穩定供電當中一環重點還是尋求安全穩定的供電這個是政府最高的原則\n420478\t446886\t但是現在的前提是當大家國際社會對你的能源安全有疑慮的時候你是不是綠電你還沒有辦法達到您所開出來的支票的比例那中間是不是有其他的替代方案嗎跟委員報告到2032年之前我們新的電廠我們從南部的這個大林還有中部的通宵\n447981\t458312\t還有台中還有南部的興達北部的大潭跟協和六大電廠如果完成加上民營的IPP民營電廠我們的供電量是足以應付的\n459121\t485401\t臺灣\n486462\t511412\t要走向全世界不能專聽一個國家或是少數國家的意見我剛講的Economist是歐洲的我們都要聽大家的意見我也曾經上網去找很多國際的媒體有沒有其他的利潤基礎但是現在一致都是很擔心我們的韌性所以在這邊就是提醒院長那剛剛院長也做了一個結論也就是我們是OK的\n512092\t526388\t剛院長做了結論嘛 我們就在這邊留下一個記錄我們自己的電廠跟民營電廠都工程順利完成 情況底下我們是安全無虞的現在我們的責任就是讓這些電廠能夠依時序來上路好 我們下一個\n526949\t541881\t想要提到這個是我們的陳時中政委他在四月底的時候接受了天下雜誌的專訪他的標題就寫到說台灣的生育率全球後短半他也蠻擔心的因為落後日本\n542621\t564063\t倒數第二現在南韓正在激起直衝再來他說我們年輕人撫養老人很快在幾十年以內就會從2比1變成1比1他有提到幾個重點比如他認為我們補貼的其實是不足的等一下我引用一些數據\n566345\t591632\t這個標題就提到說他認同台灣的單身女性想生孩子而且政府必須要支持最後呢他有講到說我們的環境職場的環境不夠友善育兒這個相信上次我們兩個也一起討論過今天我們要再更深入的去探討所以第一點我們就是要講的是上個會期非常非常可惜啦我覺得最後可能有一點流於這個\n594264\t623661\t民進黨扛不太住內部的政治壓力最後呢是署長還有部長說雖然提出來的草案現在可能各個委員還沒有辦法達到共識不過他們其實早就準備好了A版跟B版所以隨時都可以再拿出來選擇先把人工生殖法脫鉤那脫鉤的話當然對於許多的單身女性也是樂見其成因為他們的卵巢他們的卵子沒有辦法遭受這樣子年齡上的等待嘛\n624201\t637033\t所以至今呢你們說當時你們手上就已經備好兩個版本了那現在已經過了四個月了我是希望知道說什麼時候行政院才可以送到立法院這樣子的你們早就準備好的版本\n640700\t659239\t因為這個人工生殖法正如委員所提的我們是經過預告然後聽很多的聲音以後其實部長你很簡單的給我大概一個月、兩個月、三個月、半年你稍微給我一個數字就好大家關心這個議題的人是想要知道一個時程應該在\n663849\t671163\t下個會期前會下個會期以前好那這個就是本席需要知道的答案就這樣子而已謝謝部長\n673220\t693854\t再來我們看這個圖主委長已經看過非常多次了2019年蔡英文喊出0到6歲國家一起養的政策以後我們台灣的新生兒人數是這個降的速度實在是太快了不忍心看啦越跌越快龍年比兔年少原本你們預期的高點這個也是大家都已經問過你的\n694875\t713360\t那這邊呢 他在專訪中 陳正偉在專訪中講到說對比其他面臨少子化危機的國家比如說法國或日本他認為我們投資的比例是低的你有沒有機會我們可以把這樣子總預算的比例再來拉高呢您覺得 您認同嗎這個報告委員\n718252\t731563\t國家的財政能力持續在改善當中所以我覺得我們更有能力來面對這樣的問題而且少子女化的問題是國安問題我們承諾在明年的預算當中一定想辦法來寬裂人口對策的這個方式\n734125\t761145\t是那陳時中政委他有一個蠻具體而且他應該訪查過非常多的人所提出的他認為啦現在政府所提供的育兒津貼零零總總第一個很難選擇第二個你要到處去蒐集那我試算過了如果我們就台北市來看啊你把每一個津貼都領完可能還不到兩萬塊但是政委他認為覺得一定要讓人民有感有感他認為是折合台幣三萬元\n762426\t775228\t他這樣子才會有感才讓年輕人有動力來生小孩不曉得我們這邊是不是有機會可以努力的去配合到他認為這個有感的方案現在我們正進入到明年\n776746\t799971\t總預算 概算的構想當中但是一方面因為國際的情勢到底是變化萬千我們恆珠國內我們自己的財政能力我剛剛已經答應過委員了在人口對策的這個向下我們會想盡辦法來編列寬裕的是的 我這邊也只是希望您可以在一個月內給我一個可行性的評估跟報告好嗎\n800919\t806963\t我們就把我們的概算一直往前走我覺得大概就可以了解到我們的方向最後我要講這個\n809970\t833949\t彈性工時彈性的育兒這是陳時中政委也很重視因為他說企業必須要依照員工來提供相對應的彈性價因為人力很吃緊而且台灣八成是中小企業這個事辦計畫真的做得非常的差我在這邊先給您看一段我質詢等一下可以跟你邀到一個書面資料你已經找誰做的溝通跟統整\n834469\t839772\t部長在委員會的質詢的時候是跟我說他跟很多的機關團體都做過討論不過他沒有留下會議記錄非常的可惜那這個他還講不出什麼時候可以開始事辦計畫但我也用他之前的質詢來告訴院長他遇到什麼問題\n859181\t879544\t各位我們都很清楚可是我們必須起步我們不能再逃避這個問題了院長現在擺在眼前的是我們接下來的這個狀況會越惡劣問題會越大會越不公平性別不平等問題也會更加劇這是現在的問題所以就算沒辦法完全解決我們也必須面對現在是我們這個時間點已經不得不做的事情所以我很希望我們可以從行政院的角度來去處理這個問題我也不希望只是丟給勞動部\n880185\t899835\t他從2023年的年底您可以看得出來洪部長非常的急我覺得甚至他這個急迫的程度是更甚於我啦他從2023年年底就很關心這樣子的議題請問您可以在一個月內也可以評估這個可行性嗎因為我們已經從2023年我就用\n900615\t909824\t洪偉仁當時的質詢來告訴你遇到的困境是因為院長必須要整合衛福部還有勞動部才能夠一起做到可不可以在公務部門做事辦計畫\n911251\t934373\t我覺得洪委員到洪部長熱情絲毫沒有改變那個跟陳委員報告到目前為止我們都還非常非常積極的跟包括跟相關的團體跟產業跟企業在討論彈性暈流停的事辦的方案我們希望能夠做得更到位甚至更彈性多久以內我們可以看到這個院長所主持的可行性報告\n956279\t964525\t好 谢谢陈金威委员子谢谢卓院长 卫福部还有劳动部两位部长的背景 谢谢接下来我们请林淑芬委员子马文君委员请准备\n","txt":"主席好各位官員卓院長大家好還有媒體朋友我想首先請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n主委好相信您對這個Economist已經被詢問非常多了但本席今天比較關心的是上禮拜其實我有延續問到天然氣這個問題我想問的是他點出我們台灣的一個國安問題也就是我們能源的海運依賴性他計算出來我們的能源海運依賴性達到97.3%我想請教院長你有沒有什麼解決下降這個依賴性的方案或是方法\n我們用LNG天然氣來轉換成來取代煤這是一個橋接的過程在國家的能源政策上面這是橋接過程所必須要面臨的當然我們也知道儲存的期間運送的方式對國家的挑戰是很大的但是相較底下如果讓繼續燃燒煤的話對國人的健康空氣的污染\n減碳淨零的目標更遙遠不過不管是煤或者是天然氣其實它還是海運的依賴性非常大但是輕重有別我現在等一下還會再給你看一些國外的智庫或者是媒體或是學者給您的一些資料事實上美方給過我們非常多的建議那我相信卓院長也有聆聽他們對我們軍事方面的建議對吧\n也有討論過一些機會當然最近他們非常頻繁的從3月之後也許是因為全世界都知道我們5月17號以後核電就沒有了我們就是成為正式的非核家園所以全世界有在注意我們的能源政策還有我們的國安危機等等的\n那當然我也覺得我可以跟院長一起來看一下美方對我們有什麼具體的建議那為什麼會提古麗妍是因為她從三月開始不管是在她自己個人還有她去演講的場合其中包括我跟賴清德總統都同時出席的美國商會她都有講到這樣子的話那昨天呢她也發文了\n他還發到AIT官方的粉絲專頁上面他講到說其實美國願意盡全力來協助解決台灣的能源需求包括在核能方面美國準備好例如小型的反應爐SMR也樂意幫助台灣解決核廢料儲存的挑戰因為你也知道我們在教育委員會討論的時候其實許多委員還是提到核廢料這樣子的問題\n所以美方已經提出關於核能不管是願意協助您的方案或者是您覺得很燙手的這個核廢料的問題不知道您有沒有希望可以跟他們達成一個合作或是跟他們有初步的對話呢好 報告委員三項原則是我們一直對外來宣布第一個就是核能的安全沒有顧慮第二是核廢料有適當的去處第三個就是當社會有共識所以\n我是沒有辦法很確定要如何幫我們處理核廢料那我們現在已經有很多核廢料沒有辦法處理那你還問我說核廢料放在我家我要不要收多少錢其實他只是釋出了一個您可以去找他對談或是找他合作他開了一個窗口我現在只是問您有沒有願意去跟他談論這些\n我們對於新的核能跟解決現在目前傳統核能的問題我們都樂於採取開放態度找任何專家來談找任何可以解決的方式共同來研究非常好那我也期待未來可以看到您跟鼓勵員或是AIP可以有一個這樣子的會談\n他之前在接受台北時報的專訪也有講到說很多美國其實想要來擴大投資比如說AI但是因為我們高度的依賴進口所以很容易受到封鎖的影響他也在這篇採訪中有提到說包括美國包括日本都有重啟核能另外像我們胃黃委員會有去核三做一個考察不管是專家學者的評估或者是美國舉出許多核電研議安全的例子\n他們是準備好了要幫我們所以我只是想知道在這個這麼急迫的時間因為下一篇媒體其實也蠻急的很多國際焦點都在台灣其實他們都蠻急的我知道院長對於剛上面三個方向也講了很久我聽了您跟許多委員的答詢我只想知道說你有沒有一個期程會去做我們可以開啟這個對話的窗口你說新的核能技術嗎\n是 就是美國所提到的他願意協助我們的核廢料主體等等剛剛處長有提到SMR我們知道SMR還在一個相當漫長的研究的階段他要商轉可能還有一個相當長的時間\n但是我們也願意在這個時候就來討論甚至在技術上如果可以增進我們未來能源的穩定的話當然是可以討論的一個話題那現在我們也在四方各方去尋求各種在新進技術上面的各種資訊\n好那我希望看到你們有正式的這樣子會談接下來我們要給你看這個華爾街日報他所評論的他的標題其實寫的讓大家也覺得對於能源政策是不是符合我們的國家安全感到緊張了他說其實北京是喜歡台灣非核家園的他認為台灣把自己弄到能源的脆弱性是自找的\n因為我們現在您剛提到很多再生能源可是再生能源之前有開了一些支票這些支票的比例是跳票的那我們現在又貿然把核電全部停掉更是加大了我們最依賴海運的天然氣或是煤大家都已經點出相同的一個問題了所以我現在也想要知道說您會不會願意聆聽這些國際專家們的建議把這些建議全部納為您未來一個考量\n是的,雖然我們也非常的了解多元發展綠能台灣自己的產業跟國際大廠來都需要買綠電這個前提是一直存在的那我們還是認為說多元發展綠能是我們整個能源穩定供電當中一環重點還是尋求安全穩定的供電這個是政府最高的原則\n但是現在的前提是當大家國際社會對你的能源安全有疑慮的時候你是不是綠電你還沒有辦法達到您所開出來的支票的比例那中間是不是有其他的替代方案嗎跟委員報告到2032年之前我們新的電廠我們從南部的這個大林還有中部的通宵\n還有台中還有南部的興達北部的大潭跟協和六大電廠如果完成加上民營的IPP民營電廠我們的供電量是足以應付的\n臺灣\n要走向全世界不能專聽一個國家或是少數國家的意見我剛講的Economist是歐洲的我們都要聽大家的意見我也曾經上網去找很多國際的媒體有沒有其他的利潤基礎但是現在一致都是很擔心我們的韌性所以在這邊就是提醒院長那剛剛院長也做了一個結論也就是我們是OK的\n剛院長做了結論嘛 我們就在這邊留下一個記錄我們自己的電廠跟民營電廠都工程順利完成 情況底下我們是安全無虞的現在我們的責任就是讓這些電廠能夠依時序來上路好 我們下一個\n想要提到這個是我們的陳時中政委他在四月底的時候接受了天下雜誌的專訪他的標題就寫到說台灣的生育率全球後短半他也蠻擔心的因為落後日本\n倒數第二現在南韓正在激起直衝再來他說我們年輕人撫養老人很快在幾十年以內就會從2比1變成1比1他有提到幾個重點比如他認為我們補貼的其實是不足的等一下我引用一些數據\n這個標題就提到說他認同台灣的單身女性想生孩子而且政府必須要支持最後呢他有講到說我們的環境職場的環境不夠友善育兒這個相信上次我們兩個也一起討論過今天我們要再更深入的去探討所以第一點我們就是要講的是上個會期非常非常可惜啦我覺得最後可能有一點流於這個\n民進黨扛不太住內部的政治壓力最後呢是署長還有部長說雖然提出來的草案現在可能各個委員還沒有辦法達到共識不過他們其實早就準備好了A版跟B版所以隨時都可以再拿出來選擇先把人工生殖法脫鉤那脫鉤的話當然對於許多的單身女性也是樂見其成因為他們的卵巢他們的卵子沒有辦法遭受這樣子年齡上的等待嘛\n所以至今呢你們說當時你們手上就已經備好兩個版本了那現在已經過了四個月了我是希望知道說什麼時候行政院才可以送到立法院這樣子的你們早就準備好的版本\n因為這個人工生殖法正如委員所提的我們是經過預告然後聽很多的聲音以後其實部長你很簡單的給我大概一個月、兩個月、三個月、半年你稍微給我一個數字就好大家關心這個議題的人是想要知道一個時程應該在\n下個會期前會下個會期以前好那這個就是本席需要知道的答案就這樣子而已謝謝部長\n再來我們看這個圖主委長已經看過非常多次了2019年蔡英文喊出0到6歲國家一起養的政策以後我們台灣的新生兒人數是這個降的速度實在是太快了不忍心看啦越跌越快龍年比兔年少原本你們預期的高點這個也是大家都已經問過你的\n那這邊呢 他在專訪中 陳正偉在專訪中講到說對比其他面臨少子化危機的國家比如說法國或日本他認為我們投資的比例是低的你有沒有機會我們可以把這樣子總預算的比例再來拉高呢您覺得 您認同嗎這個報告委員\n國家的財政能力持續在改善當中所以我覺得我們更有能力來面對這樣的問題而且少子女化的問題是國安問題我們承諾在明年的預算當中一定想辦法來寬裂人口對策的這個方式\n是那陳時中政委他有一個蠻具體而且他應該訪查過非常多的人所提出的他認為啦現在政府所提供的育兒津貼零零總總第一個很難選擇第二個你要到處去蒐集那我試算過了如果我們就台北市來看啊你把每一個津貼都領完可能還不到兩萬塊但是政委他認為覺得一定要讓人民有感有感他認為是折合台幣三萬元\n他這樣子才會有感才讓年輕人有動力來生小孩不曉得我們這邊是不是有機會可以努力的去配合到他認為這個有感的方案現在我們正進入到明年\n總預算 概算的構想當中但是一方面因為國際的情勢到底是變化萬千我們恆珠國內我們自己的財政能力我剛剛已經答應過委員了在人口對策的這個向下我們會想盡辦法來編列寬裕的是的 我這邊也只是希望您可以在一個月內給我一個可行性的評估跟報告好嗎\n我們就把我們的概算一直往前走我覺得大概就可以了解到我們的方向最後我要講這個\n彈性工時彈性的育兒這是陳時中政委也很重視因為他說企業必須要依照員工來提供相對應的彈性價因為人力很吃緊而且台灣八成是中小企業這個事辦計畫真的做得非常的差我在這邊先給您看一段我質詢等一下可以跟你邀到一個書面資料你已經找誰做的溝通跟統整\n部長在委員會的質詢的時候是跟我說他跟很多的機關團體都做過討論不過他沒有留下會議記錄非常的可惜那這個他還講不出什麼時候可以開始事辦計畫但我也用他之前的質詢來告訴院長他遇到什麼問題\n各位我們都很清楚可是我們必須起步我們不能再逃避這個問題了院長現在擺在眼前的是我們接下來的這個狀況會越惡劣問題會越大會越不公平性別不平等問題也會更加劇這是現在的問題所以就算沒辦法完全解決我們也必須面對現在是我們這個時間點已經不得不做的事情所以我很希望我們可以從行政院的角度來去處理這個問題我也不希望只是丟給勞動部\n他從2023年的年底您可以看得出來洪部長非常的急我覺得甚至他這個急迫的程度是更甚於我啦他從2023年年底就很關心這樣子的議題請問您可以在一個月內也可以評估這個可行性嗎因為我們已經從2023年我就用\n洪偉仁當時的質詢來告訴你遇到的困境是因為院長必須要整合衛福部還有勞動部才能夠一起做到可不可以在公務部門做事辦計畫\n我覺得洪委員到洪部長熱情絲毫沒有改變那個跟陳委員報告到目前為止我們都還非常非常積極的跟包括跟相關的團體跟產業跟企業在討論彈性暈流停的事辦的方案我們希望能夠做得更到位甚至更彈性多久以內我們可以看到這個院長所主持的可行性報告\n好 谢谢陈金威委员子谢谢卓院长 卫福部还有劳动部两位部长的背景 谢谢接下来我们请林淑芬委员子马文君委员请准备\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.166 --> 00:19.008\n主席好各位官員卓院長大家好還有媒體朋友我想首先請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n\n00:29.703 --> 00:57.126\n主委好相信您對這個Economist已經被詢問非常多了但本席今天比較關心的是上禮拜其實我有延續問到天然氣這個問題我想問的是他點出我們台灣的一個國安問題也就是我們能源的海運依賴性他計算出來我們的能源海運依賴性達到97.3%我想請教院長你有沒有什麼解決下降這個依賴性的方案或是方法\n\n00:58.390 --> 01:21.400\n我們用LNG天然氣來轉換成來取代煤這是一個橋接的過程在國家的能源政策上面這是橋接過程所必須要面臨的當然我們也知道儲存的期間運送的方式對國家的挑戰是很大的但是相較底下如果讓繼續燃燒煤的話對國人的健康空氣的污染\n\n01:21.940 --> 01:48.863\n減碳淨零的目標更遙遠不過不管是煤或者是天然氣其實它還是海運的依賴性非常大但是輕重有別我現在等一下還會再給你看一些國外的智庫或者是媒體或是學者給您的一些資料事實上美方給過我們非常多的建議那我相信卓院長也有聆聽他們對我們軍事方面的建議對吧\n\n01:49.810 --> 02:09.453\n也有討論過一些機會當然最近他們非常頻繁的從3月之後也許是因為全世界都知道我們5月17號以後核電就沒有了我們就是成為正式的非核家園所以全世界有在注意我們的能源政策還有我們的國安危機等等的\n\n02:09.973 --> 02:33.050\n那當然我也覺得我可以跟院長一起來看一下美方對我們有什麼具體的建議那為什麼會提古麗妍是因為她從三月開始不管是在她自己個人還有她去演講的場合其中包括我跟賴清德總統都同時出席的美國商會她都有講到這樣子的話那昨天呢她也發文了\n\n02:33.390 --> 03:02.682\n他還發到AIT官方的粉絲專頁上面他講到說其實美國願意盡全力來協助解決台灣的能源需求包括在核能方面美國準備好例如小型的反應爐SMR也樂意幫助台灣解決核廢料儲存的挑戰因為你也知道我們在教育委員會討論的時候其實許多委員還是提到核廢料這樣子的問題\n\n03:03.382 --> 03:29.939\n所以美方已經提出關於核能不管是願意協助您的方案或者是您覺得很燙手的這個核廢料的問題不知道您有沒有希望可以跟他們達成一個合作或是跟他們有初步的對話呢好報告委員三項原則是我們一直對外來宣布第一個就是核能的安全沒有顧慮第二是核廢料有適當的去處第三個就是當社會有共識所以\n\n03:31.069 --> 03:52.275\n我是沒有辦法很確定要如何幫我們處理核廢料那我們現在已經有很多核廢料沒有辦法處理那你還問我說核廢料放在我家我要不要收多少錢其實他只是釋出了一個您可以去找他對談或是找他合作他開了一個窗口我現在只是問您有沒有願意去跟他談論這些\n\n03:54.488 --> 04:10.840\n我們對於新的核能跟解決現在目前傳統核能的問題我們都樂於採取開放態度找任何專家來談找任何可以解決的方式共同來研究非常好那我也期待未來可以看到您跟鼓勵員或是AIP可以有一個這樣子的會談\n\n04:12.481 --> 04:41.349\n他之前在接受台北時報的專訪也有講到說很多美國其實想要來擴大投資比如說AI但是因為我們高度的依賴進口所以很容易受到封鎖的影響他也在這篇採訪中有提到說包括美國包括日本都有重啟核能另外像我們胃黃委員會有去核三做一個考察不管是專家學者的評估或者是美國舉出許多核電研議安全的例子\n\n04:42.449 --> 05:10.836\n他們是準備好了要幫我們所以我只是想知道在這個這麼急迫的時間因為下一篇媒體其實也蠻急的很多國際焦點都在台灣其實他們都蠻急的我知道院長對於剛上面三個方向也講了很久我聽了您跟許多委員的答詢我只想知道說你有沒有一個期程會去做我們可以開啟這個對話的窗口你說新的核能技術嗎\n\n05:11.966 --> 05:25.913\n是就是美國所提到的他願意協助我們的核廢料主體等等剛剛處長有提到SMR我們知道SMR還在一個相當漫長的研究的階段他要商轉可能還有一個相當長的時間\n\n05:27.054 --> 05:41.719\n但是我們也願意在這個時候就來討論甚至在技術上如果可以增進我們未來能源的穩定的話當然是可以討論的一個話題那現在我們也在四方各方去尋求各種在新進技術上面的各種資訊\n\n05:43.117 --> 06:08.144\n好那我希望看到你們有正式的這樣子會談接下來我們要給你看這個華爾街日報他所評論的他的標題其實寫的讓大家也覺得對於能源政策是不是符合我們的國家安全感到緊張了他說其實北京是喜歡台灣非核家園的他認為台灣把自己弄到能源的脆弱性是自找的\n\n06:08.524 --> 06:37.217\n因為我們現在您剛提到很多再生能源可是再生能源之前有開了一些支票這些支票的比例是跳票的那我們現在又貿然把核電全部停掉更是加大了我們最依賴海運的天然氣或是煤大家都已經點出相同的一個問題了所以我現在也想要知道說您會不會願意聆聽這些國際專家們的建議把這些建議全部納為您未來一個考量\n\n06:37.870 --> 06:59.503\n是的,雖然我們也非常的了解多元發展綠能台灣自己的產業跟國際大廠來都需要買綠電這個前提是一直存在的那我們還是認為說多元發展綠能是我們整個能源穩定供電當中一環重點還是尋求安全穩定的供電這個是政府最高的原則\n\n07:00.478 --> 07:26.886\n但是現在的前提是當大家國際社會對你的能源安全有疑慮的時候你是不是綠電你還沒有辦法達到您所開出來的支票的比例那中間是不是有其他的替代方案嗎跟委員報告到2032年之前我們新的電廠我們從南部的這個大林還有中部的通宵\n\n07:27.981 --> 07:38.312\n還有台中還有南部的興達北部的大潭跟協和六大電廠如果完成加上民營的IPP民營電廠我們的供電量是足以應付的\n\n08:06.462 --> 08:31.412\n要走向全世界不能專聽一個國家或是少數國家的意見我剛講的Economist是歐洲的我們都要聽大家的意見我也曾經上網去找很多國際的媒體有沒有其他的利潤基礎但是現在一致都是很擔心我們的韌性所以在這邊就是提醒院長那剛剛院長也做了一個結論也就是我們是OK的\n\n08:32.092 --> 08:46.388\n剛院長做了結論嘛我們就在這邊留下一個記錄我們自己的電廠跟民營電廠都工程順利完成情況底下我們是安全無虞的現在我們的責任就是讓這些電廠能夠依時序來上路好我們下一個\n\n08:46.949 --> 09:01.881\n想要提到這個是我們的陳時中政委他在四月底的時候接受了天下雜誌的專訪他的標題就寫到說台灣的生育率全球後短半他也蠻擔心的因為落後日本\n\n09:02.621 --> 09:24.063\n倒數第二現在南韓正在激起直衝再來他說我們年輕人撫養老人很快在幾十年以內就會從2比1變成1比1他有提到幾個重點比如他認為我們補貼的其實是不足的等一下我引用一些數據\n\n09:26.345 --> 09:51.632\n這個標題就提到說他認同台灣的單身女性想生孩子而且政府必須要支持最後呢他有講到說我們的環境職場的環境不夠友善育兒這個相信上次我們兩個也一起討論過今天我們要再更深入的去探討所以第一點我們就是要講的是上個會期非常非常可惜啦我覺得最後可能有一點流於這個\n\n09:54.264 --> 10:23.661\n民進黨扛不太住內部的政治壓力最後呢是署長還有部長說雖然提出來的草案現在可能各個委員還沒有辦法達到共識不過他們其實早就準備好了A版跟B版所以隨時都可以再拿出來選擇先把人工生殖法脫鉤那脫鉤的話當然對於許多的單身女性也是樂見其成因為他們的卵巢他們的卵子沒有辦法遭受這樣子年齡上的等待嘛\n\n10:24.201 --> 10:37.033\n所以至今呢你們說當時你們手上就已經備好兩個版本了那現在已經過了四個月了我是希望知道說什麼時候行政院才可以送到立法院這樣子的你們早就準備好的版本\n\n10:40.700 --> 10:59.239\n因為這個人工生殖法正如委員所提的我們是經過預告然後聽很多的聲音以後其實部長你很簡單的給我大概一個月、兩個月、三個月、半年你稍微給我一個數字就好大家關心這個議題的人是想要知道一個時程應該在\n\n11:03.849 --> 11:11.163\n下個會期前會下個會期以前好那這個就是本席需要知道的答案就這樣子而已謝謝部長\n\n11:13.220 --> 11:33.854\n再來我們看這個圖主委長已經看過非常多次了2019年蔡英文喊出0到6歲國家一起養的政策以後我們台灣的新生兒人數是這個降的速度實在是太快了不忍心看啦越跌越快龍年比兔年少原本你們預期的高點這個也是大家都已經問過你的\n\n11:34.875 --> 11:53.360\n那這邊呢他在專訪中陳正偉在專訪中講到說對比其他面臨少子化危機的國家比如說法國或日本他認為我們投資的比例是低的你有沒有機會我們可以把這樣子總預算的比例再來拉高呢您覺得您認同嗎這個報告委員\n\n11:58.252 --> 12:11.563\n國家的財政能力持續在改善當中所以我覺得我們更有能力來面對這樣的問題而且少子女化的問題是國安問題我們承諾在明年的預算當中一定想辦法來寬裂人口對策的這個方式\n\n12:14.125 --> 12:41.145\n是那陳時中政委他有一個蠻具體而且他應該訪查過非常多的人所提出的他認為啦現在政府所提供的育兒津貼零零總總第一個很難選擇第二個你要到處去蒐集那我試算過了如果我們就台北市來看啊你把每一個津貼都領完可能還不到兩萬塊但是政委他認為覺得一定要讓人民有感有感他認為是折合台幣三萬元\n\n12:42.426 --> 12:55.228\n他這樣子才會有感才讓年輕人有動力來生小孩不曉得我們這邊是不是有機會可以努力的去配合到他認為這個有感的方案現在我們正進入到明年\n\n12:56.746 --> 13:19.971\n總預算概算的構想當中但是一方面因為國際的情勢到底是變化萬千我們恆珠國內我們自己的財政能力我剛剛已經答應過委員了在人口對策的這個向下我們會想盡辦法來編列寬裕的是的我這邊也只是希望您可以在一個月內給我一個可行性的評估跟報告好嗎\n\n13:20.919 --> 13:26.963\n我們就把我們的概算一直往前走我覺得大概就可以了解到我們的方向最後我要講這個\n\n13:29.970 --> 13:53.949\n彈性工時彈性的育兒這是陳時中政委也很重視因為他說企業必須要依照員工來提供相對應的彈性價因為人力很吃緊而且台灣八成是中小企業這個事辦計畫真的做得非常的差我在這邊先給您看一段我質詢等一下可以跟你邀到一個書面資料你已經找誰做的溝通跟統整\n\n13:54.469 --> 13:59.772\n部長在委員會的質詢的時候是跟我說他跟很多的機關團體都做過討論不過他沒有留下會議記錄非常的可惜那這個他還講不出什麼時候可以開始事辦計畫但我也用他之前的質詢來告訴院長他遇到什麼問題\n\n14:19.181 --> 14:39.544\n各位我們都很清楚可是我們必須起步我們不能再逃避這個問題了院長現在擺在眼前的是我們接下來的這個狀況會越惡劣問題會越大會越不公平性別不平等問題也會更加劇這是現在的問題所以就算沒辦法完全解決我們也必須面對現在是我們這個時間點已經不得不做的事情所以我很希望我們可以從行政院的角度來去處理這個問題我也不希望只是丟給勞動部\n\n14:40.185 --> 14:59.835\n他從2023年的年底您可以看得出來洪部長非常的急我覺得甚至他這個急迫的程度是更甚於我啦他從2023年年底就很關心這樣子的議題請問您可以在一個月內也可以評估這個可行性嗎因為我們已經從2023年我就用\n\n15:00.615 --> 15:09.824\n洪偉仁當時的質詢來告訴你遇到的困境是因為院長必須要整合衛福部還有勞動部才能夠一起做到可不可以在公務部門做事辦計畫\n\n15:11.251 --> 15:34.373\n我覺得洪委員到洪部長熱情絲毫沒有改變那個跟陳委員報告到目前為止我們都還非常非常積極的跟包括跟相關的團體跟產業跟企業在討論彈性暈流停的事辦的方案我們希望能夠做得更到位甚至更彈性多久以內我們可以看到這個院長所主持的可行性報告\n\n15:56.279 --> 16:04.525\n好谢谢陈金威委员子谢谢卓院长卫福部还有劳动部两位部长的背景谢谢接下来我们请林淑芬委员子马文君委员请准备\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.166,"end":19.008,"text":"主席好各位官員卓院長大家好還有媒體朋友我想首先請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":29.703,"end":57.126,"text":"主委好相信您對這個Economist已經被詢問非常多了但本席今天比較關心的是上禮拜其實我有延續問到天然氣這個問題我想問的是他點出我們台灣的一個國安問題也就是我們能源的海運依賴性他計算出來我們的能源海運依賴性達到97.3%我想請教院長你有沒有什麼解決下降這個依賴性的方案或是方法"},{"start":58.39,"end":81.4,"text":"我們用LNG天然氣來轉換成來取代煤這是一個橋接的過程在國家的能源政策上面這是橋接過程所必須要面臨的當然我們也知道儲存的期間運送的方式對國家的挑戰是很大的但是相較底下如果讓繼續燃燒煤的話對國人的健康空氣的污染"},{"start":81.94,"end":108.863,"text":"減碳淨零的目標更遙遠不過不管是煤或者是天然氣其實它還是海運的依賴性非常大但是輕重有別我現在等一下還會再給你看一些國外的智庫或者是媒體或是學者給您的一些資料事實上美方給過我們非常多的建議那我相信卓院長也有聆聽他們對我們軍事方面的建議對吧"},{"start":109.81,"end":129.453,"text":"也有討論過一些機會當然最近他們非常頻繁的從3月之後也許是因為全世界都知道我們5月17號以後核電就沒有了我們就是成為正式的非核家園所以全世界有在注意我們的能源政策還有我們的國安危機等等的"},{"start":129.973,"end":153.05,"text":"那當然我也覺得我可以跟院長一起來看一下美方對我們有什麼具體的建議那為什麼會提古麗妍是因為她從三月開始不管是在她自己個人還有她去演講的場合其中包括我跟賴清德總統都同時出席的美國商會她都有講到這樣子的話那昨天呢她也發文了"},{"start":153.39,"end":182.682,"text":"他還發到AIT官方的粉絲專頁上面他講到說其實美國願意盡全力來協助解決台灣的能源需求包括在核能方面美國準備好例如小型的反應爐SMR也樂意幫助台灣解決核廢料儲存的挑戰因為你也知道我們在教育委員會討論的時候其實許多委員還是提到核廢料這樣子的問題"},{"start":183.382,"end":209.939,"text":"所以美方已經提出關於核能不管是願意協助您的方案或者是您覺得很燙手的這個核廢料的問題不知道您有沒有希望可以跟他們達成一個合作或是跟他們有初步的對話呢好 報告委員三項原則是我們一直對外來宣布第一個就是核能的安全沒有顧慮第二是核廢料有適當的去處第三個就是當社會有共識所以"},{"start":211.069,"end":232.275,"text":"我是沒有辦法很確定要如何幫我們處理核廢料那我們現在已經有很多核廢料沒有辦法處理那你還問我說核廢料放在我家我要不要收多少錢其實他只是釋出了一個您可以去找他對談或是找他合作他開了一個窗口我現在只是問您有沒有願意去跟他談論這些"},{"start":234.488,"end":250.84,"text":"我們對於新的核能跟解決現在目前傳統核能的問題我們都樂於採取開放態度找任何專家來談找任何可以解決的方式共同來研究非常好那我也期待未來可以看到您跟鼓勵員或是AIP可以有一個這樣子的會談"},{"start":252.481,"end":281.349,"text":"他之前在接受台北時報的專訪也有講到說很多美國其實想要來擴大投資比如說AI但是因為我們高度的依賴進口所以很容易受到封鎖的影響他也在這篇採訪中有提到說包括美國包括日本都有重啟核能另外像我們胃黃委員會有去核三做一個考察不管是專家學者的評估或者是美國舉出許多核電研議安全的例子"},{"start":282.449,"end":310.836,"text":"他們是準備好了要幫我們所以我只是想知道在這個這麼急迫的時間因為下一篇媒體其實也蠻急的很多國際焦點都在台灣其實他們都蠻急的我知道院長對於剛上面三個方向也講了很久我聽了您跟許多委員的答詢我只想知道說你有沒有一個期程會去做我們可以開啟這個對話的窗口你說新的核能技術嗎"},{"start":311.966,"end":325.913,"text":"是 就是美國所提到的他願意協助我們的核廢料主體等等剛剛處長有提到SMR我們知道SMR還在一個相當漫長的研究的階段他要商轉可能還有一個相當長的時間"},{"start":327.054,"end":341.719,"text":"但是我們也願意在這個時候就來討論甚至在技術上如果可以增進我們未來能源的穩定的話當然是可以討論的一個話題那現在我們也在四方各方去尋求各種在新進技術上面的各種資訊"},{"start":343.117,"end":368.144,"text":"好那我希望看到你們有正式的這樣子會談接下來我們要給你看這個華爾街日報他所評論的他的標題其實寫的讓大家也覺得對於能源政策是不是符合我們的國家安全感到緊張了他說其實北京是喜歡台灣非核家園的他認為台灣把自己弄到能源的脆弱性是自找的"},{"start":368.524,"end":397.217,"text":"因為我們現在您剛提到很多再生能源可是再生能源之前有開了一些支票這些支票的比例是跳票的那我們現在又貿然把核電全部停掉更是加大了我們最依賴海運的天然氣或是煤大家都已經點出相同的一個問題了所以我現在也想要知道說您會不會願意聆聽這些國際專家們的建議把這些建議全部納為您未來一個考量"},{"start":397.87,"end":419.503,"text":"是的,雖然我們也非常的了解多元發展綠能台灣自己的產業跟國際大廠來都需要買綠電這個前提是一直存在的那我們還是認為說多元發展綠能是我們整個能源穩定供電當中一環重點還是尋求安全穩定的供電這個是政府最高的原則"},{"start":420.478,"end":446.886,"text":"但是現在的前提是當大家國際社會對你的能源安全有疑慮的時候你是不是綠電你還沒有辦法達到您所開出來的支票的比例那中間是不是有其他的替代方案嗎跟委員報告到2032年之前我們新的電廠我們從南部的這個大林還有中部的通宵"},{"start":447.981,"end":458.312,"text":"還有台中還有南部的興達北部的大潭跟協和六大電廠如果完成加上民營的IPP民營電廠我們的供電量是足以應付的"},{"start":459.121,"end":485.401,"text":"臺灣"},{"start":486.462,"end":511.412,"text":"要走向全世界不能專聽一個國家或是少數國家的意見我剛講的Economist是歐洲的我們都要聽大家的意見我也曾經上網去找很多國際的媒體有沒有其他的利潤基礎但是現在一致都是很擔心我們的韌性所以在這邊就是提醒院長那剛剛院長也做了一個結論也就是我們是OK的"},{"start":512.092,"end":526.388,"text":"剛院長做了結論嘛 我們就在這邊留下一個記錄我們自己的電廠跟民營電廠都工程順利完成 情況底下我們是安全無虞的現在我們的責任就是讓這些電廠能夠依時序來上路好 我們下一個"},{"start":526.949,"end":541.881,"text":"想要提到這個是我們的陳時中政委他在四月底的時候接受了天下雜誌的專訪他的標題就寫到說台灣的生育率全球後短半他也蠻擔心的因為落後日本"},{"start":542.621,"end":564.063,"text":"倒數第二現在南韓正在激起直衝再來他說我們年輕人撫養老人很快在幾十年以內就會從2比1變成1比1他有提到幾個重點比如他認為我們補貼的其實是不足的等一下我引用一些數據"},{"start":566.345,"end":591.632,"text":"這個標題就提到說他認同台灣的單身女性想生孩子而且政府必須要支持最後呢他有講到說我們的環境職場的環境不夠友善育兒這個相信上次我們兩個也一起討論過今天我們要再更深入的去探討所以第一點我們就是要講的是上個會期非常非常可惜啦我覺得最後可能有一點流於這個"},{"start":594.264,"end":623.661,"text":"民進黨扛不太住內部的政治壓力最後呢是署長還有部長說雖然提出來的草案現在可能各個委員還沒有辦法達到共識不過他們其實早就準備好了A版跟B版所以隨時都可以再拿出來選擇先把人工生殖法脫鉤那脫鉤的話當然對於許多的單身女性也是樂見其成因為他們的卵巢他們的卵子沒有辦法遭受這樣子年齡上的等待嘛"},{"start":624.201,"end":637.033,"text":"所以至今呢你們說當時你們手上就已經備好兩個版本了那現在已經過了四個月了我是希望知道說什麼時候行政院才可以送到立法院這樣子的你們早就準備好的版本"},{"start":640.7,"end":659.239,"text":"因為這個人工生殖法正如委員所提的我們是經過預告然後聽很多的聲音以後其實部長你很簡單的給我大概一個月、兩個月、三個月、半年你稍微給我一個數字就好大家關心這個議題的人是想要知道一個時程應該在"},{"start":663.849,"end":671.163,"text":"下個會期前會下個會期以前好那這個就是本席需要知道的答案就這樣子而已謝謝部長"},{"start":673.22,"end":693.854,"text":"再來我們看這個圖主委長已經看過非常多次了2019年蔡英文喊出0到6歲國家一起養的政策以後我們台灣的新生兒人數是這個降的速度實在是太快了不忍心看啦越跌越快龍年比兔年少原本你們預期的高點這個也是大家都已經問過你的"},{"start":694.875,"end":713.36,"text":"那這邊呢 他在專訪中 陳正偉在專訪中講到說對比其他面臨少子化危機的國家比如說法國或日本他認為我們投資的比例是低的你有沒有機會我們可以把這樣子總預算的比例再來拉高呢您覺得 您認同嗎這個報告委員"},{"start":718.252,"end":731.563,"text":"國家的財政能力持續在改善當中所以我覺得我們更有能力來面對這樣的問題而且少子女化的問題是國安問題我們承諾在明年的預算當中一定想辦法來寬裂人口對策的這個方式"},{"start":734.125,"end":761.145,"text":"是那陳時中政委他有一個蠻具體而且他應該訪查過非常多的人所提出的他認為啦現在政府所提供的育兒津貼零零總總第一個很難選擇第二個你要到處去蒐集那我試算過了如果我們就台北市來看啊你把每一個津貼都領完可能還不到兩萬塊但是政委他認為覺得一定要讓人民有感有感他認為是折合台幣三萬元"},{"start":762.426,"end":775.228,"text":"他這樣子才會有感才讓年輕人有動力來生小孩不曉得我們這邊是不是有機會可以努力的去配合到他認為這個有感的方案現在我們正進入到明年"},{"start":776.746,"end":799.971,"text":"總預算 概算的構想當中但是一方面因為國際的情勢到底是變化萬千我們恆珠國內我們自己的財政能力我剛剛已經答應過委員了在人口對策的這個向下我們會想盡辦法來編列寬裕的是的 我這邊也只是希望您可以在一個月內給我一個可行性的評估跟報告好嗎"},{"start":800.919,"end":806.963,"text":"我們就把我們的概算一直往前走我覺得大概就可以了解到我們的方向最後我要講這個"},{"start":809.97,"end":833.949,"text":"彈性工時彈性的育兒這是陳時中政委也很重視因為他說企業必須要依照員工來提供相對應的彈性價因為人力很吃緊而且台灣八成是中小企業這個事辦計畫真的做得非常的差我在這邊先給您看一段我質詢等一下可以跟你邀到一個書面資料你已經找誰做的溝通跟統整"},{"start":834.469,"end":839.772,"text":"部長在委員會的質詢的時候是跟我說他跟很多的機關團體都做過討論不過他沒有留下會議記錄非常的可惜那這個他還講不出什麼時候可以開始事辦計畫但我也用他之前的質詢來告訴院長他遇到什麼問題"},{"start":859.181,"end":879.544,"text":"各位我們都很清楚可是我們必須起步我們不能再逃避這個問題了院長現在擺在眼前的是我們接下來的這個狀況會越惡劣問題會越大會越不公平性別不平等問題也會更加劇這是現在的問題所以就算沒辦法完全解決我們也必須面對現在是我們這個時間點已經不得不做的事情所以我很希望我們可以從行政院的角度來去處理這個問題我也不希望只是丟給勞動部"},{"start":880.185,"end":899.835,"text":"他從2023年的年底您可以看得出來洪部長非常的急我覺得甚至他這個急迫的程度是更甚於我啦他從2023年年底就很關心這樣子的議題請問您可以在一個月內也可以評估這個可行性嗎因為我們已經從2023年我就用"},{"start":900.615,"end":909.824,"text":"洪偉仁當時的質詢來告訴你遇到的困境是因為院長必須要整合衛福部還有勞動部才能夠一起做到可不可以在公務部門做事辦計畫"},{"start":911.251,"end":934.373,"text":"我覺得洪委員到洪部長熱情絲毫沒有改變那個跟陳委員報告到目前為止我們都還非常非常積極的跟包括跟相關的團體跟產業跟企業在討論彈性暈流停的事辦的方案我們希望能夠做得更到位甚至更彈性多久以內我們可以看到這個院長所主持的可行性報告"},{"start":956.279,"end":964.525,"text":"好 谢谢陈金威委员子谢谢卓院长 卫福部还有劳动部两位部长的背景 谢谢接下来我们请林淑芬委员子马文君委员请准备"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":552,"blocks":[["陳委員菁徽：（16時45分）主席、各位官員、卓院長、還有媒體朋友，大家好。首先請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["陳委員菁徽：卓院長，對於The Economist，相信您已經被詢問非常多了，但本席今天比較關心的是上禮拜其實我有延續問到天然氣這個問題。我想問的是，它點出我們臺灣的一個國安問題，也就是我們能源的海運依賴性，它計算出來我們的能源海運依賴性達到97.3%。我想請教院長，你有沒有什麼解決、下降這個依賴性的方案或是方法？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們用LNG天然氣轉換來取代煤，這是一個橋接的過程，在國家的能源政策上面，這是橋接過程所必須要面臨的。當然我們也知道儲存的期間、運送的方式對國家的挑戰是很大的，但是相較之下，如果繼續燃燒煤的話，國人的健康、空氣污染及減碳淨零的目標更遙遠。"],["陳委員菁徽：是，不過不管是煤或者是天然氣，其實它對於海運的依賴性還是非常大。"],["卓院長榮泰：是、是、是，但是輕重有別。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，我等一下還會再給你看國外的智庫、媒體或是學者給您的一些資料。事實上，美方給過我們非常多的建議，我相信卓院長也有聆聽他們對我們軍事方面的建議，對吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：也有討論的一些機會，對。"],["陳委員菁徽：當然最近從3月之後他們非常頻繁，也許是因為全世界都知道我們5月17號以後核電就沒有了，我們就是成為正式的非核家園，所以全世界有在注意我們的能源政策，還有我們的國安危機等等的。當然，我也覺得我可以跟院長一起來看一下美方對我們有什麼具體的建議。為什麼會提谷立言，是因為他從3月開始，不管是在他自己個人還有他去演講的場合，其中包括我跟賴清德總統都同時出席的美國商會，他都有講到這樣子的話。昨天他也發文了，他還發到AIT官方的粉絲專頁上面，他講到其實美國願意盡全力協助解決臺灣的能源需求，包括在核能方面，美國準備好，例如小型的反應爐SMR，也樂意幫助臺灣解決核廢料儲存的挑戰。你也知道，我們在教育委員會討論的時候，其實許多委員還是提到核廢料這樣子的問題。美方已經提出關於核能，不管是願意協助您的方案或者是您覺得很燙手的核廢料問題，不知道您有沒有希望跟他們達成合作或是跟他們有初步的對話？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，報告委員，三項原則是我們一直對外宣布的，第一個就是核能的安全沒有顧慮，第二個是核廢料有適當的去處，第三個就是讓社會有共識。我是沒有辦法很確定他要如何幫我們處理核廢料，我們現在已經有很多核廢料沒有辦法處理，那天還有委員問我說，核廢料放在我家，我要不要收多少錢？"],["陳委員菁徽：沒有，其實他只是釋出了一個……您可以去找他對談或是找他合作，他開了一個窗口，我現在只是問您有沒有意願去跟他談論這些。"],["卓院長榮泰：對於新的核能跟解決目前傳統核能的問題，我們都樂於採取開放態度，找任何專家來談，找任何可以解決的方式共同來研究。"],["陳委員菁徽：非常好，我也期待未來可以看到您跟谷立言或AIT有這樣子的會談，他之前接受臺北時報的專訪時，也有講到美國其實想要來擴大投資，比如說AI，但是因為我們高度的依賴進口，所以很容易受到封鎖的影響。他也在這篇採訪中提到包括美國、日本都有重啟核能，另外像我們衛環委員會有去核三考察，不管是專家學者的評估，或者是美國舉出許多核電延役安全的例子，他們是準備好了要幫我們，我只是想知道在這麼急迫的時間，因為下一篇媒體其實也滿急的，很多國際焦點都在臺灣，其實他們都滿急的，我知道院長對於剛剛上面三個方向也講了很久，我聽了您跟許多委員的答詢，我只想知道你有沒有一個期程會去做我們可以開啟這個對話的窗口？"],["卓院長榮泰：你是說新的核能技術嗎？"],["陳委員菁徽：是，就是美國所提到他們願意協助我們的核廢料處理等等。"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛處長有提到SMR，我們知道SMR還在相當漫長的研究階段，距離商轉可能還有相當長的時間，但是我們也願意在這個時候就來討論，甚至在技術上如果可以增進我們未來能源穩定的話，當然是可以討論的一個話題，現在我們也在各方尋求在新進技術上面的各種資訊。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，我希望看到你們有正式的會談。接下來要給您看華爾街日報的評論，他的標題其實寫得讓大家覺得對於能源政策是不是符合我們的國家安全感到緊張，他說其實北京是喜歡臺灣非核家園的，他認為臺灣把自己弄到能源的脆弱性是自找的。您剛剛提到很多再生能源，可是再生能源之前有開了一些支票，這些支票的比例是跳票的，而我們現在又貿然把核電全部停掉，更是加大了我們對最依賴海運的天然氣或煤的需求，大家都已經點出相同的問題了，所以我現在也想要知道您會不會願意聆聽這些國際專家們的建議，把這些建議全部納為您未來的考量？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的，我們也非常了解必須多元發展綠能，臺灣自己的產業跟國際大廠來都需要買綠電這個前提是一直存在的，我們還是認為多元發展綠能是我們整個能源穩定供電當中的一環，重點還是尋求安全穩定的供電，這個是政府最高的原則。"],["陳委員菁徽：但是現在的前提是當國際社會對你的能源安全有疑慮的時候，而綠電還沒有辦法達到您所開出來的支票的比例，那中間是不是有其他的替代方案？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，到2032年之前，我們新的電廠，從南部的大林，還有中部的通霄、臺中，以及南部的興達、北部的大潭跟協和，六大電廠如果完成，加上IPP民營電廠，我們的供電量是足以應付的。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，我會把這句話記得，您說供電量是足以應付的。最後我只想要close一下，因為現在是臺美最好的時刻，所以我也在這邊誠摯的建議院長，美方對於我們安全的顧慮不斷提出建議，我也希望您除了親美，我們也可以一起來聆聽美國好朋友對我們最真摯而且非常頻繁的這些建議好嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：臺灣要走向全世界，不能專聽一個國家或是少數國家的意見，我們需要……"],["陳委員菁徽：我剛剛講的The Economist是歐洲的，還有其他的期刊……"],["卓院長榮泰：是，我們都要聽大家的意見。"],["陳委員菁徽：我也曾經上網去找很多國際的媒體有沒有其他的立論基礎，但是現在一致都是很擔心我們的韌性，所以在這邊要提醒院長，而剛剛院長也做了結論，也就是我們是OK的。剛剛院長做了結論，我們就在這邊留下一個紀錄。"],["卓院長榮泰：在我們自己的電廠跟民營電廠的工程都順利完成的情況底下，我們是安全無虞的，現在我們的責任就是讓這些電廠能夠依時序來上路。"],["陳委員菁徽：下一個問題我想要提到陳時中政委在4月底的時候接受天下雜誌的專訪，他的標題就寫到臺灣的生育率全球後段班，他也滿擔心的，因為落後日本、倒數第二，現在南韓正在急起直衝。再來，他說我們年輕人撫養老人的比例很快在幾十年以內就會從2比1變成1比1，他有提到幾個重點，他說到比如他認為我們的補貼其實是不足的，等一下我引用一些數據來說明；再來，他的標題就提到他認同臺灣的單身女性想生孩子，而且政府必須要支持；最後，他有講到我們的職場環境不夠友善，相信上次我們兩個也一起討論過，今天我們要再更深入地去探討。","第一點，我們要講的是，上個會期非常可惜，我覺得最後可能有一點流於民進黨扛不太住內部的政治壓力，最後是署長及部長說，雖然提出來的草案現在可能各個委員還沒有辦法達到共識，不過他們其實早就準備好了A版跟B版，隨時都可以再拿出來，選擇先把人工生殖法脫鉤。脫鉤的話，當然許多的單身女性也是樂見其成，因為他們的卵巢、卵子沒有辦法遭受這樣子年齡上的等待。當時你們說手上已經備好兩個版本了，現在已經過了4個月了，我希望知道什麼時候行政院才可以送到立法院這個你們早就準備好的版本。"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長說明。"],["邱部長泰源：好。因為人工生殖法正如委員所提的，我們經過預告，聽了很多的聲音以後才決定……"],["陳委員菁徽：其實部長你很簡單地給我大概1個月、2個月、3個月、半年，你稍微給我一個數字就好，關心這個議題的人是想要知道一個時程。"],["邱部長泰源：應該在下個會期前會……"],["陳委員菁徽：下個會期以前？"],["邱部長泰源：嗯。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，這個就是本席需要知道的答案，就這樣子而已，謝謝部長。","再來，我們看一下簡報上的圖，卓院長已經看過非常多次了。2019年蔡英文喊出0到6歲國家一起養的政策以後，我們臺灣新生兒人數降的速度實在是太快了，讓人不忍心看，愈跌愈快，龍年比兔年少，原本你們預期的高點……這個也是大家都已經問過你的。陳政委在專訪中講到，對比其他面臨少子化危機的國家，比如法國、日本，他認為我們投資的比例是低的，您覺得有沒有機會可以把這樣子總預算的比例再拉高呢？您認同嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，國家的財政能力持續在改善當中，所以我覺得我們更有能力來面對這樣的問題，而且少子女化的問題是國安問題，我們承諾在明年的預算當中一定想辦法……"],["陳委員菁徽：會把它提高。"],["卓院長榮泰：來寬列人口對策的方式。"],["陳委員菁徽：是。陳時中政委他有一個滿具體、而且他應該訪查過非常多的人所提出的，他認為現在政府所提供的育兒津貼林林總總，第一個，很難選擇；第二個，你要到處去蒐集。我試算過了，如果就臺北市來看，把每一個津貼都領完，可能還不到兩萬塊。但是政委覺得一定要讓人民有感，所謂的有感，他認為是折合臺幣3萬元，他說這樣子才會有感，才能讓年輕人有動力來生小孩。不曉得是不是有機會努力地去配合這個他認為的有感方案？"],["卓院長榮泰：現在我們正進入到明年總預算概算的構想當中，但是一方面因為國際的情勢到底是變化萬千，我們衡諸國內自己的財政能力……我剛剛已經答應過委員，在人口對策的項下，我們會想盡辦法來編列寬裕的預算。"],["陳委員菁徽：是的，我只是希望您可以在1個月可以給我一個可行性的評估跟報告，好嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們就把我們的概算一直往前走，委員大概就可以瞭解到我們的方向。"],["陳委員菁徽：最後我要講，彈性的育兒是陳時中政委也很重視的，他說企業必須要依照員工來提供相對應的彈性假，因為人力很吃緊，而且臺灣八成是中小企業。這個試辦計畫真的做得非常差，我先給您看一段我質詢部長的影片。","（播放影片）"],["陳委員菁徽：部長在委員會質詢的時候是跟我說，他跟很多的機關、團體都做過討論，不過他沒有留下會議紀錄，非常地可惜，而他還講不出什麼時候可以開始有試辦計畫，但我也用他之前的質詢來告訴院長他遇到了什麼問題。","（播放影片）"],["陳委員菁徽：他從2023年的年底，您可以看得出來洪部長非常地急，我覺得甚至他急迫的程度更甚於我，他從2023年年底就很關心這樣子的議題。請問您在1個月內，也可以評估這個的可行性嗎？因為我們從2023年就已經提了，我就用洪委員當時的質詢來告訴你所遇到的困境，是因為院長必須要整合衛福部還有勞動部才能夠一起做到，可不可以在公務部門做試辦計畫？"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長答復，我覺得從洪委員到洪部長，熱情絲毫沒有改變。"],["陳委員菁徽：是，看得出來。"],["洪部長申翰：跟陳委員報告，到目前為止，我們都還非常非常積極地跟相關團體、跟產業、跟企業在討論彈性育嬰留停的試辦方案，我們現在希望能夠做得更到位，甚至更彈性。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以多久以內我們可以看到院長所主持的可行性報告？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個原來在設想的時候以為這個方向很好，結果試辦結果沒有得到預期的效果，我覺得試辦有問題，重新試辦。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以我們會看到你們的檢討報告？"],["洪部長申翰：我們會有一個重新規劃的方案，然後以更彈性的方向，更符合大家的需求。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，本席1個月內會跟你們追這個報告，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳菁徽委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、衛福部還有勞動部兩位部長的備詢。","接下來我們請林淑芬委員質詢，馬文君委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-10","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","陳超明","黃建賓","魯明哲","顏寬恒","陳玉珍","林倩綺","林沛祥","黃國昌","林國成","李昆澤","林月琴","賴士葆","黃秀芳","王正旭","盧縣一","李彥秀","楊曜","麥玉珍","廖偉翔","陳菁徽","林淑芬","馬文君","邱若華","蘇巧慧"],"page_start":117,"meetingDate":["2025-05-06"],"gazette_id":"1144201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144201_00004","1144201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第10次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1144201_00004"}}}