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那農民可見他有三大損失第一個損失就是如果有這麼大的颱風可以把農業設施摧毀他就是他的農產品大概也損失慘重\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 288.746, \"end\": 288.946, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 288.946, \"end\": 289.206, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 289.206, \"end\": 289.847, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 289.847, \"end\": 291.528, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 291.528, \"end\": 292.128, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 292.128, \"end\": 293.549, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"廢\"}, {\"word\": \"棄\"}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 293.549, \"end\": 293.689, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 293.689, \"end\": 293.889, \"score\": 0.648}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 293.889, \"end\": 294.109, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 294.109, \"end\": 294.289, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 930.662, \"end\": 930.963, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 930.963, \"end\": 931.425, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"邱\", \"start\": 931.425, \"end\": 931.705, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"若\", \"start\": 931.705, \"end\": 932.287, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"驊\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 932.287, \"end\": 932.307, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,727 --> 00:00:06,751\n謝謝主席麻煩請院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n\n2\n00:00:19,530 --> 00:00:36,751\n院長好院長上個禮拜其實我們在質詢農業部的時候有特別提到就是我們農民溫往事的那個廢棄物的去化的部分那今天因為有衛福部他主要的他的這些業務\n\n3\n00:00:37,913 --> 00:00:56,975\n可能是跟他是更相關的所以在這裡我們針對這個部分像他極端氣候變蟲害的影響的因應農民對於溫暖室的這樣子的設施需求也越來越大然後農業部的預算補助也越編越高可是\n\n4\n00:00:57,695 --> 00:01:24,443\n也因為這樣因為農民的需求還有我們政府的補助所以讓它的那個量體還有它整個那個數量其實也越來越多那在這個部分當然也造成我們上一次提過的這個溫網式的這些廢棄物它的處理問題其實已經不斷的產生比如說像南投縣它是以農業為主那南投縣的山坡地面積\n\n5\n00:01:26,104 --> 00:01:42,297\n它占比高達95%所以對於這樣子像我們有很多的一些濃膜它包含棚膜跟地膜這些濃膜其實它可能還可以製成塑膠粒它可以\n\n6\n00:01:43,098 --> 00:02:08,719\n加工再利用如果他有回收的話可是另外還有那些往事的廢棄物他又就是像那種網子的他又重又厚然後也不易處理更重要的他如果在土地上面其實他百年都不會分解也不會腐爛所以基本上像這一些農業廢棄物清潔隊是不收的\n\n7\n00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:29,994\n那上一次我們也有提到因為農業部負責補助可是他在他的去化上面他好像也是無能為力對我們整個縣內來說所以我們也常常看到因為像現在包括很多建築廢棄物也都是往山裡去偷盜偷埋那現在又有這些農業廢棄物對我們這些好山好水或者\n\n8\n00:02:30,734 --> 00:02:59,949\n包括院長之前你也剛去主持過草屯的那個鳥嘴潭人工湖它的那個落成啟用很重要的是因為我們的水質都是由山上直接整個河川這樣流下來那它的水質夠好那水量也夠大所以我們可以維繫這樣的一個人工湖可是當我們不斷的破壞環境的時候或者我們沒有一個好的這些政策的處理方式的時候其實它的污染\n\n9\n00:03:00,529 --> 00:03:28,110\n或者它未來造成河川的這些可能不管是污染也好土石裂補也好或者甚至對於土地的污染其實也都會非常嚴重因為它就是沒有辦法分解所以我們之前其實南投縣曾經在幾次重大的天災也發生過這樣的事情你只要像有一些樹木倒塌或者像這些廢棄物有人蓄意去傾倒或者丟棄的這些廢棄物\n\n10\n00:03:29,651 --> 00:03:58,314\n就造成很多的天然災害更加的嚴峻危險所以就這個部分我們是不是有什麼樣的方式那個為環境部可以來做一個有效的處理方式因為我們現在看到農民他最大的困難點就是當你要收的時候還不是清潔隊你要收的時候他必須要乾淨然後有時候還要破碎\n\n11\n00:03:59,555 --> 00:04:15,507\n第二個他是進入像我剛剛提到的南投縣有95%都是山坡地如果要開車去收是因為要有事業廢棄物的那個公司來收可是要進這些偏遠地區或山區他的車輛要有證的不然你隨便去載還會被罰\n\n12\n00:04:20,530 --> 00:04:48,146\n這是第二個那第三個他像一般的車輛會法以外他對這些農民來說他的運費跟處理費就會非常的高因為他比較遠然後你的量體如果一些然後他還要請廢棄物的那個還要付處理費還有運費那很多農民他就乾脆就隨便丟隨便處置或隨便買了這個對我們整個環境造成的影響是非常大的\n\n13\n00:04:48,746 --> 00:05:09,958\n所以像這些會產生這樣子農業廢棄物它很重要的原因第一個當然就是年限到了第二個就是發生颱風或天災的時候它被摧毀了那既然這樣那農民可見他有三大損失第一個損失就是如果有這麼大的颱風可以把農業設施摧毀他就是他的農產品大概也損失慘重\n\n14\n00:05:14,660 --> 00:05:32,773\n第二個這些設施損壞他可能包括這些設施的投資也是損失慘重第三個如果要處理這些費我們損失的農產品還有像這樣子的設施的話他還要負擔這些運費跟處理費對農民來說其實是很困難所以就這個方向\n\n15\n00:05:38,917 --> 00:05:46,340\n已經發生很久了而且這個歷年好像也都有在討論我們環境部有沒有什麼樣具體的做法\n\n16\n00:05:46,957 --> 00:06:08,602\n好報告委員這個農廢的部分這現在是還是農業部在主政那我也坦承說其實因為我們的分類裡面這種在每一個這個業務主管機關來說的話他可能當成廢棄物在處理他沒有辦法到我們的這個環境部的廢棄物的處理的程序那未來呢我們這個希望下個會期能夠送我們的志願循環推動法\n\n17\n00:06:08,982 --> 00:06:36,371\n未來會有我們環境部來統一來主政結果就會更好一點點那對我來說這個不是廢棄物是資源啦所以未來我們會把它當成資源來看待會更好那現在呢我會來跟那個農業部來協商南投的問題因為每個地方有每個地方的問題像我知道農業部在中部台中有一個可以去化的一個地方但是我必須說我的了解量能還是不大夠所以委員說的的確是一個問題那我們希望有短中長期來解決這個問題\n\n18\n00:06:38,406 --> 00:07:05,871\n所以下個會期我們環境部就會介入一起跟農業部一起去處理嘛我們希望說那個法可以訂好把它分工更明確在沒有法之前因為它已經存在了院長也在這裡我們相關的環境部也在這裡今天還沒有法的時候它還是可以處理啊它只是用什麼樣方式去處理而已在這裡也特別要提出呼籲也請院長可以去考量就是\n\n19\n00:07:06,331 --> 00:07:34,932\n在我們因為過去我們可以看到我們的資源回收做得非常好那時候你不管是紙啊還有什麼寶特瓶啊玻璃瓶啊或者所有相關只要可以回收的大家的分類都做得很好而且也很多人在幫忙回收包括很多弱勢的一些民眾其實他也可以以此為生那時候很重要的一個政策是因為我們那時候的環保署他是有補助的\n\n20\n00:07:35,692 --> 00:07:56,609\n所以就讓很多人願意去好好的把它分類然後好好的去甚至做資源回收所以我在想如果像這個部分我們是不是可以來專案補助剛剛我提到農民其實他會有很多的困難包括未來即使你們已經找到處理的方式可是對農民的負擔來說他會發生這樣子的廢棄物的產生的時候其實他已經有非常大的損失了\n\n21\n00:08:02,293 --> 00:08:28,818\n如果他還要負擔這些其實是非常沉重的負擔這個部分是不是我們也可以考慮院長是不是可以考慮我們用專案補助的方式一方面可以解決農民的困難第二還可以讓我們的環境永續去好好的經營因為他至少你就不會讓他有這樣子的一個可能性會降到比較低因為他可以好好的處理那這個部分可不可以朝這樣來執行\n\n22\n00:08:30,558 --> 00:08:36,522\n報告委員這個其實我們會積極來跟南投縣的農業局跟環保局來討論這個事情我們現在講的不是我知道我知道我剛剛提到的是專案補助的部分這個不是跟縣政府跟縣政府補助你們是怎麼去化怎麼找到地點我現在說的是當農民承受這麼大的損失的時候他還是必須要支出這些部分是不是可以專案補助就像我們過去在做資源回收的時候因為你只要花一點點的這些\n\n23\n00:09:00,138 --> 00:09:21,557\n我們政府的預算可是它可以擁保我們整體環境台灣就這麼小當你上面有污染的時候我們的河川我們所有的土地包括我們下游需要的這些水質其實都會受到影響那這個部分對整體的政策來說如果是正向的院長可不可以考慮請院長回答好不好\n\n24\n00:09:22,379 --> 00:09:48,991\n我們會請農業部跟環境部剛剛委員剛剛的建議我們拿進來討論來考慮一下來討論因為我們提到的就是說因為環境部如果你因為你在前端你做這樣的補助當然對農民是好的可是你在後端當他有這麼大的損失的時候你又沒有辦法有收成的時候這個部分我們也請環境部跟那個就是我們環境部跟那個農業部其實你們處理的是\n\n25\n00:09:49,571 --> 00:10:09,841\n是已經發生的啦這個部分可能還是要院長來做一個裁決如果像這樣我們去疼惜我們的農民讓他受到當然不是每一次都要啊你一定是有比較大的這樣子的損害的時候你才需要去啟動這樣子的一個補助的方案所以這個部分請院長可以慎重考量好不好\n\n26\n00:10:10,661 --> 00:10:11,802\n環境部跟農業部\n\n27\n00:10:28,131 --> 00:10:35,058\n我們可以來研議我們在台中豐原已經有一些小鎮也是農業的已經有零廢棄的小鎮我們要鼓勵他出來了我們是鼓勵農民零廢棄來做這個事而不是說他製造廢棄物之後他們現在是怎麼做可以零廢棄\n\n28\n00:10:50,194 --> 00:11:04,798\n有他們基本上一個大的社區在台中豐原的公老坪那個其實是非常成功的那我們也希望能夠補助他可以處理多少量體沒有他自己會去把這個資源把它做好詳細的分類什麼樣的資源我說的我們剛剛討論到現在說的是這些文廣式的這些農業設施的農費喔您提的是這個嗎\n\n29\n00:11:13,581 --> 00:11:29,630\n各種它的所有的東西我現在講的是這個部分我們針對這個部分討論好不好因為你如果沒有解決這個部分你講別的因為你把它扯遠了我們現在講的是這個部分它這些網子我們以前看到海洋生物很多\n\n30\n00:11:30,951 --> 00:11:45,387\n環境部長也在這裡我們有很多海洋的生物看到他們在受到解救的時候就是被很多的網子塑膠去把它捆住今天我們的河川生態也會造成這樣的影響因為你都是網子這是政府也有補助的\n\n31\n00:11:46,328 --> 00:12:15,168\n那你在後端沒有辦法做這樣的承諾嗎你們可以去評估看看他必須要多少的預算當你每年編到兩兆多將近三兆的預算的時候你沒有辦法去考量一點點這樣的預算嗎過去我們在資源回收我剛剛講過去甚至很多人還會認為說欸慈濟的資源回收做得非常好可是慈濟就是因為做得非常好他甚至他們可以做的資源回收的一些生活來源\n\n32\n00:12:15,908 --> 00:12:40,366\n都會受到影響那就是因為政府有這樣的政策有這麼多的民眾幫我們做好比你自己要去做會更好這個部分院長可不可以慎重的去評估考量可不可以推動這樣的政策至少在你前端你都還沒有做出這樣相關的處置作為或者像這樣子的一個去化的一個方式的時候可不可以做這樣的考量讓農民也一起來協助這個部分\n\n33\n00:12:44,708 --> 00:13:01,371\n剛剛委員報告我會請環境部農業部來做檢討分析讓我來做判斷之後這個事情該由中央來做或是跟地方怎麼樣來做合作我們會有一套方法出來希望這就是對農民的照顧落實到他不要讓他產生這種廢棄物而且廢棄物可以再善加利用\n\n34\n00:13:02,443 --> 00:13:19,958\n他如果沒有回收就不可能參加利用這一次因為我很遺憾因為我覺得說這個是非常小的事情今天院長我很希望你面對這個尤其是今天站在農業部跟環境部兩位\n\n35\n00:13:20,658 --> 00:13:43,125\n的中間院長如果這個部分對我們的環境永續對農民是有幫助的我們很希望其實是由你來做承諾當然面對困難的時候我們去解決可是如果有什麼樣的問題如果我們可以承擔它是一個政策它不是只有南投會發生它所有的農業設施上面只要有溫暖室都會有這樣的那個問題產生\n\n36\n00:13:45,326 --> 00:14:12,301\n請委員容許我們讓他做專業的分析檢討之後我們才能做正確的判斷那我們會往這個方向走所以如果是這樣院長會願意朝這樣如果說他的評估是可行的院長可以去去同意這樣子的一個政策推動嗎當然我們在照顧榮民的各種方面而且到底中央來做或是跟地方怎麼合作所以還是地方如果地方可以做那我們今天也不用\n\n37\n00:14:13,081 --> 00:14:34,126\n跟院長在這裡探討了非常感謝院長在這時候想到地方可是我們更希望地方可以協助的不是只有預算的部分如果我們斤斤計較台灣很難好而且我們的環境也很難好今天我們南投提供了很多的天然資源尤其是水資源我們\n\n38\n00:14:35,286 --> 00:14:50,976\n說要給彰化使用的時候大家都沒有話說我們受到很多的限制可是我們更希望中央在很多政策上面可以獨當一面而且挑起對農民照顧的這樣的責任在這裡代表我們很多很多全國的農民拜託院長因為這個新聞從\n\n39\n00:14:54,858 --> 00:15:23,752\n南到北到處都有發生這個農費的這個問題其實我相信農業部非常清楚他存在很久了如果沒有一個具體的有我們農民有我們中央有我們地方政府大家一起來共同解決他很難把它做好我過去的經驗就是資源回收曾經非常好的時候就是因為有這樣的補貼的政策希望院長可以慎重的考慮為了我們所有的行政的推動可以讓他\n\n40\n00:15:25,870 --> 00:15:32,307\n好謝謝馬文堅委員質詢謝謝卓院長各部會首長的備詢謝謝接下來我們請邱若驊委員請質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5727\t6751\t謝謝主席 麻煩請院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n19530\t36751\t院長好院長上個禮拜其實我們在質詢農業部的時候有特別提到就是我們農民溫往事的那個廢棄物的去化的部分那今天因為有衛福部他主要的他的這些業務\n37913\t56975\t可能是跟他是更相關的所以在這裡我們針對這個部分像他極端氣候變蟲害的影響的因應 農民對於溫暖室的這樣子的設施需求也越來越大然後農業部的預算補助也越編越高可是\n57695\t84443\t也因為這樣因為農民的需求還有我們政府的補助所以讓它的那個量體還有它整個那個數量其實也越來越多那在這個部分當然也造成我們上一次提過的這個溫網式的這些廢棄物它的處理問題其實已經不斷的產生比如說像南投縣它是以農業為主那南投縣的山坡地面積\n86104\t102297\t它占比高達95%所以對於這樣子像我們有很多的一些濃膜它包含棚膜跟地膜這些濃膜其實它可能還可以製成塑膠粒它可以\n103098\t128719\t加工再利用如果他有回收的話可是另外還有那些往事的廢棄物他又就是像那種網子的他又重又厚然後也不易處理更重要的他如果在土地上面其實他百年都不會分解也不會腐爛所以基本上像這一些農業廢棄物清潔隊是不收的\n129480\t149994\t那上一次我們也有提到因為農業部負責補助可是他在他的去化上面他好像也是無能為力對我們整個縣內來說所以我們也常常看到因為像現在包括很多建築廢棄物也都是往山裡去偷盜偷埋那現在又有這些農業廢棄物對我們這些好山好水或者\n150734\t179949\t包括院長之前你也剛去主持過草屯的那個鳥嘴潭人工湖它的那個落成啟用很重要的是因為我們的水質都是由山上直接整個河川這樣流下來那它的水質夠好那水量也夠大所以我們可以維繫這樣的一個人工湖可是當我們不斷的破壞環境的時候或者我們沒有一個好的這些政策的處理方式的時候其實它的污染\n180529\t208110\t或者它未來造成河川的這些可能不管是污染也好土石裂補也好或者甚至對於土地的污染其實也都會非常嚴重因為它就是沒有辦法分解所以我們之前其實南投縣曾經在幾次重大的天災也發生過這樣的事情你只要像有一些樹木倒塌或者像這些廢棄物有人蓄意去傾倒或者丟棄的這些廢棄物\n209651\t238314\t就造成很多的天然災害更加的嚴峻危險所以就這個部分我們是不是有什麼樣的方式那個為環境部可以來做一個有效的處理方式因為我們現在看到農民他最大的困難點就是當你要收的時候還不是清潔隊你要收的時候他必須要乾淨然後有時候還要破碎\n239555\t255507\t第二個他是進入像我剛剛提到的南投縣有95%都是山坡地如果要開車去收是因為要有事業廢棄物的那個公司來收可是要進這些偏遠地區或山區他的車輛要有證的不然你隨便去載還會被罰\n260530\t288146\t這是第二個那第三個他像一般的車輛會法以外他對這些農民來說他的運費跟處理費就會非常的高因為他比較遠然後你的量體如果一些然後他還要請廢棄物的那個還要付處理費還有運費那很多農民他就乾脆就隨便丟隨便處置或隨便買了這個對我們整個環境造成的影響是非常大的\n288746\t309958\t所以像這些會產生這樣子農業廢棄物它很重要的原因第一個當然就是年限到了第二個就是發生颱風或天災的時候它被摧毀了那既然這樣 那農民可見他有三大損失第一個損失就是如果有這麼大的颱風可以把農業設施摧毀他就是他的農產品大概也損失慘重\n314660\t332773\t第二個這些設施損壞他可能包括這些設施的投資也是損失慘重第三個如果要處理這些費我們損失的農產品還有像這樣子的設施的話他還要負擔這些運費跟處理費對農民來說其實是很困難所以就這個方向\n338917\t346340\t已經發生很久了而且這個歷年好像也都有在討論我們環境部有沒有什麼樣具體的做法\n346957\t368602\t好 報告委員 這個農廢的部分這現在是還是農業部在主政那我也坦承說其實因為我們的分類裡面這種在每一個這個業務主管機關來說的話他可能當成廢棄物在處理他沒有辦法到我們的這個環境部的廢棄物的處理的程序那未來呢我們這個希望下個會期能夠送我們的志願循環推動法\n368982\t396371\t未來會有我們環境部來統一來主政結果就會更好一點點那對我來說這個不是廢棄物是資源啦所以未來我們會把它當成資源來看待會更好那現在呢我會來跟那個農業部來協商南投的問題因為每個地方有每個地方的問題像我知道農業部在中部台中有一個可以去化的一個地方但是我必須說我的了解量能還是不大夠所以委員說的的確是一個問題那我們希望有短中長期來解決這個問題\n398406\t425871\t所以下個會期我們環境部就會介入一起跟農業部一起去處理嘛我們希望說那個法可以訂好把它分工更明確在沒有法之前因為它已經存在了院長也在這裡我們相關的環境部也在這裡今天還沒有法的時候它還是可以處理啊它只是用什麼樣方式去處理而已在這裡也特別要提出呼籲也請院長可以去考量就是\n426331\t454932\t在我們因為過去我們可以看到我們的資源回收做得非常好那時候你不管是紙啊還有什麼寶特瓶啊玻璃瓶啊或者所有相關只要可以回收的大家的分類都做得很好而且也很多人在幫忙回收包括很多弱勢的一些民眾其實他也可以以此為生那時候很重要的一個政策是因為我們那時候的環保署他是有補助的\n455692\t476609\t所以就讓很多人願意去好好的把它分類然後好好的去甚至做資源回收所以我在想如果像這個部分我們是不是可以來專案補助剛剛我提到農民其實他會有很多的困難包括未來即使你們已經找到處理的方式可是對農民的負擔來說他會發生這樣子的廢棄物的產生的時候其實他已經有非常大的損失了\n482293\t508818\t如果他還要負擔這些其實是非常沉重的負擔這個部分是不是我們也可以考慮院長是不是可以考慮我們用專案補助的方式一方面可以解決農民的困難第二還可以讓我們的環境永續去好好的經營因為他至少你就不會讓他有這樣子的一個可能性會降到比較低因為他可以好好的處理那這個部分可不可以朝這樣來執行\n510558\t516522\t報告委員 這個其實我們會積極來跟南投縣的農業局跟環保局來討論這個事情我們現在講的不是我知道 我知道我剛剛提到的是專案補助的部分這個不是跟縣政府 跟縣政府補助你們是怎麼去化 怎麼找到地點我現在說的是當農民承受這麼大的損失的時候他還是必須要支出這些部分是不是可以專案補助就像我們過去在做資源回收的時候因為你只要花一點點的這些\n540138\t561557\t我們政府的預算可是它可以擁保我們整體環境台灣就這麼小當你上面有污染的時候我們的河川我們所有的土地包括我們下游需要的這些水質其實都會受到影響那這個部分對整體的政策來說如果是正向的院長可不可以考慮請院長回答好不好\n562379\t588991\t我們會請農業部跟環境部剛剛委員剛剛的建議我們拿進來討論來考慮一下來討論因為我們提到的就是說因為環境部如果你因為你在前端你做這樣的補助當然對農民是好的可是你在後端當他有這麼大的損失的時候你又沒有辦法有收成的時候這個部分我們也請環境部跟那個就是我們環境部跟那個農業部其實你們處理的是\n589571\t609841\t是已經發生的啦這個部分可能還是要院長來做一個裁決如果像這樣我們去疼惜我們的農民讓他受到當然不是每一次都要啊你一定是有比較大的這樣子的損害的時候你才需要去啟動這樣子的一個補助的方案所以這個部分請院長可以慎重考量好不好\n610661\t611802\t環境部跟農業部\n628131\t635058\t我們可以來研議我們在台中豐原已經有一些小鎮也是農業的已經有零廢棄的小鎮我們要鼓勵他出來了我們是鼓勵農民零廢棄來做這個事而不是說他製造廢棄物之後他們現在是怎麼做可以零廢棄\n650194\t664798\t有 他們基本上一個大的社區在台中豐原的公老坪那個其實是非常成功的那我們也希望能夠補助他可以處理多少量體沒有 他自己會去把這個資源把它做好詳細的分類什麼樣的資源 我說的我們剛剛討論到現在說的是這些文廣式的這些農業設施的農費喔您提的是這個嗎\n673581\t689630\t各種它的所有的東西我現在講的是這個部分我們針對這個部分討論好不好因為你如果沒有解決這個部分你講別的因為你把它扯遠了我們現在講的是這個部分它這些網子我們以前看到海洋生物很多\n690951\t705387\t環境部長也在這裡我們有很多海洋的生物看到他們在受到解救的時候就是被很多的網子塑膠去把它捆住今天我們的河川生態也會造成這樣的影響因為你都是網子這是政府也有補助的\n706328\t735168\t那你在後端沒有辦法做這樣的承諾嗎你們可以去評估看看他必須要多少的預算當你每年編到兩兆多將近三兆的預算的時候你沒有辦法去考量一點點這樣的預算嗎過去我們在資源回收我剛剛講過去甚至很多人還會認為說欸慈濟的資源回收做得非常好可是慈濟就是因為做得非常好他甚至他們可以做的資源回收的一些生活來源\n735908\t760366\t都會受到影響那就是因為政府有這樣的政策有這麼多的民眾幫我們做好比你自己要去做會更好這個部分院長可不可以慎重的去評估考量可不可以推動這樣的政策至少在你前端你都還沒有做出這樣相關的處置作為或者像這樣子的一個去化的一個方式的時候可不可以做這樣的考量讓農民也一起來協助這個部分\n764708\t781371\t剛剛委員報告我會請環境部農業部來做檢討分析讓我來做判斷之後這個事情該由中央來做或是跟地方怎麼樣來做合作我們會有一套方法出來希望這就是對農民的照顧落實到他不要讓他產生這種廢棄物而且廢棄物可以再善加利用\n782443\t799958\t他如果沒有回收就不可能參加利用這一次因為我很遺憾因為我覺得說這個是非常小的事情今天院長我很希望你面對這個尤其是今天站在農業部跟環境部兩位\n800658\t823125\t的中間院長如果這個部分對我們的環境永續對農民是有幫助的我們很希望其實是由你來做承諾當然面對困難的時候我們去解決可是如果有什麼樣的問題如果我們可以承擔它是一個政策它不是只有南投會發生它所有的農業設施上面只要有溫暖室都會有這樣的那個問題產生\n825326\t852301\t請委員容許我們讓他做專業的分析檢討之後我們才能做正確的判斷那我們會往這個方向走所以如果是這樣院長會願意朝這樣如果說他的評估是可行的院長可以去去同意這樣子的一個政策推動嗎當然我們在照顧榮民的各種方面而且到底中央來做或是跟地方怎麼合作所以還是地方如果地方可以做那我們今天也不用\n853081\t874126\t跟院長在這裡探討了非常感謝院長在這時候想到地方可是我們更希望地方可以協助的不是只有預算的部分如果我們斤斤計較台灣很難好而且我們的環境也很難好今天我們南投提供了很多的天然資源尤其是水資源我們\n875286\t890976\t說要給彰化使用的時候大家都沒有話說我們受到很多的限制可是我們更希望中央在很多政策上面可以獨當一面而且挑起對農民照顧的這樣的責任在這裡代表我們很多很多全國的農民拜託院長因為這個新聞從\n894858\t923752\t南到北到處都有發生這個農費的這個問題其實我相信農業部非常清楚他存在很久了如果沒有一個具體的有我們農民有我們中央有我們地方政府大家一起來共同解決他很難把它做好我過去的經驗就是資源回收曾經非常好的時候就是因為有這樣的補貼的政策希望院長可以慎重的考慮為了我們所有的行政的推動可以讓他\n925870\t932307\t好 謝謝馬文堅委員質詢謝謝卓院長 各部會首長的備詢 謝謝接下來我們請邱若驊委員請質詢\n","txt":"謝謝主席 麻煩請院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n院長好院長上個禮拜其實我們在質詢農業部的時候有特別提到就是我們農民溫往事的那個廢棄物的去化的部分那今天因為有衛福部他主要的他的這些業務\n可能是跟他是更相關的所以在這裡我們針對這個部分像他極端氣候變蟲害的影響的因應 農民對於溫暖室的這樣子的設施需求也越來越大然後農業部的預算補助也越編越高可是\n也因為這樣因為農民的需求還有我們政府的補助所以讓它的那個量體還有它整個那個數量其實也越來越多那在這個部分當然也造成我們上一次提過的這個溫網式的這些廢棄物它的處理問題其實已經不斷的產生比如說像南投縣它是以農業為主那南投縣的山坡地面積\n它占比高達95%所以對於這樣子像我們有很多的一些濃膜它包含棚膜跟地膜這些濃膜其實它可能還可以製成塑膠粒它可以\n加工再利用如果他有回收的話可是另外還有那些往事的廢棄物他又就是像那種網子的他又重又厚然後也不易處理更重要的他如果在土地上面其實他百年都不會分解也不會腐爛所以基本上像這一些農業廢棄物清潔隊是不收的\n那上一次我們也有提到因為農業部負責補助可是他在他的去化上面他好像也是無能為力對我們整個縣內來說所以我們也常常看到因為像現在包括很多建築廢棄物也都是往山裡去偷盜偷埋那現在又有這些農業廢棄物對我們這些好山好水或者\n包括院長之前你也剛去主持過草屯的那個鳥嘴潭人工湖它的那個落成啟用很重要的是因為我們的水質都是由山上直接整個河川這樣流下來那它的水質夠好那水量也夠大所以我們可以維繫這樣的一個人工湖可是當我們不斷的破壞環境的時候或者我們沒有一個好的這些政策的處理方式的時候其實它的污染\n或者它未來造成河川的這些可能不管是污染也好土石裂補也好或者甚至對於土地的污染其實也都會非常嚴重因為它就是沒有辦法分解所以我們之前其實南投縣曾經在幾次重大的天災也發生過這樣的事情你只要像有一些樹木倒塌或者像這些廢棄物有人蓄意去傾倒或者丟棄的這些廢棄物\n就造成很多的天然災害更加的嚴峻危險所以就這個部分我們是不是有什麼樣的方式那個為環境部可以來做一個有效的處理方式因為我們現在看到農民他最大的困難點就是當你要收的時候還不是清潔隊你要收的時候他必須要乾淨然後有時候還要破碎\n第二個他是進入像我剛剛提到的南投縣有95%都是山坡地如果要開車去收是因為要有事業廢棄物的那個公司來收可是要進這些偏遠地區或山區他的車輛要有證的不然你隨便去載還會被罰\n這是第二個那第三個他像一般的車輛會法以外他對這些農民來說他的運費跟處理費就會非常的高因為他比較遠然後你的量體如果一些然後他還要請廢棄物的那個還要付處理費還有運費那很多農民他就乾脆就隨便丟隨便處置或隨便買了這個對我們整個環境造成的影響是非常大的\n所以像這些會產生這樣子農業廢棄物它很重要的原因第一個當然就是年限到了第二個就是發生颱風或天災的時候它被摧毀了那既然這樣 那農民可見他有三大損失第一個損失就是如果有這麼大的颱風可以把農業設施摧毀他就是他的農產品大概也損失慘重\n第二個這些設施損壞他可能包括這些設施的投資也是損失慘重第三個如果要處理這些費我們損失的農產品還有像這樣子的設施的話他還要負擔這些運費跟處理費對農民來說其實是很困難所以就這個方向\n已經發生很久了而且這個歷年好像也都有在討論我們環境部有沒有什麼樣具體的做法\n好 報告委員 這個農廢的部分這現在是還是農業部在主政那我也坦承說其實因為我們的分類裡面這種在每一個這個業務主管機關來說的話他可能當成廢棄物在處理他沒有辦法到我們的這個環境部的廢棄物的處理的程序那未來呢我們這個希望下個會期能夠送我們的志願循環推動法\n未來會有我們環境部來統一來主政結果就會更好一點點那對我來說這個不是廢棄物是資源啦所以未來我們會把它當成資源來看待會更好那現在呢我會來跟那個農業部來協商南投的問題因為每個地方有每個地方的問題像我知道農業部在中部台中有一個可以去化的一個地方但是我必須說我的了解量能還是不大夠所以委員說的的確是一個問題那我們希望有短中長期來解決這個問題\n所以下個會期我們環境部就會介入一起跟農業部一起去處理嘛我們希望說那個法可以訂好把它分工更明確在沒有法之前因為它已經存在了院長也在這裡我們相關的環境部也在這裡今天還沒有法的時候它還是可以處理啊它只是用什麼樣方式去處理而已在這裡也特別要提出呼籲也請院長可以去考量就是\n在我們因為過去我們可以看到我們的資源回收做得非常好那時候你不管是紙啊還有什麼寶特瓶啊玻璃瓶啊或者所有相關只要可以回收的大家的分類都做得很好而且也很多人在幫忙回收包括很多弱勢的一些民眾其實他也可以以此為生那時候很重要的一個政策是因為我們那時候的環保署他是有補助的\n所以就讓很多人願意去好好的把它分類然後好好的去甚至做資源回收所以我在想如果像這個部分我們是不是可以來專案補助剛剛我提到農民其實他會有很多的困難包括未來即使你們已經找到處理的方式可是對農民的負擔來說他會發生這樣子的廢棄物的產生的時候其實他已經有非常大的損失了\n如果他還要負擔這些其實是非常沉重的負擔這個部分是不是我們也可以考慮院長是不是可以考慮我們用專案補助的方式一方面可以解決農民的困難第二還可以讓我們的環境永續去好好的經營因為他至少你就不會讓他有這樣子的一個可能性會降到比較低因為他可以好好的處理那這個部分可不可以朝這樣來執行\n報告委員 這個其實我們會積極來跟南投縣的農業局跟環保局來討論這個事情我們現在講的不是我知道 我知道我剛剛提到的是專案補助的部分這個不是跟縣政府 跟縣政府補助你們是怎麼去化 怎麼找到地點我現在說的是當農民承受這麼大的損失的時候他還是必須要支出這些部分是不是可以專案補助就像我們過去在做資源回收的時候因為你只要花一點點的這些\n我們政府的預算可是它可以擁保我們整體環境台灣就這麼小當你上面有污染的時候我們的河川我們所有的土地包括我們下游需要的這些水質其實都會受到影響那這個部分對整體的政策來說如果是正向的院長可不可以考慮請院長回答好不好\n我們會請農業部跟環境部剛剛委員剛剛的建議我們拿進來討論來考慮一下來討論因為我們提到的就是說因為環境部如果你因為你在前端你做這樣的補助當然對農民是好的可是你在後端當他有這麼大的損失的時候你又沒有辦法有收成的時候這個部分我們也請環境部跟那個就是我們環境部跟那個農業部其實你們處理的是\n是已經發生的啦這個部分可能還是要院長來做一個裁決如果像這樣我們去疼惜我們的農民讓他受到當然不是每一次都要啊你一定是有比較大的這樣子的損害的時候你才需要去啟動這樣子的一個補助的方案所以這個部分請院長可以慎重考量好不好\n環境部跟農業部\n我們可以來研議我們在台中豐原已經有一些小鎮也是農業的已經有零廢棄的小鎮我們要鼓勵他出來了我們是鼓勵農民零廢棄來做這個事而不是說他製造廢棄物之後他們現在是怎麼做可以零廢棄\n有 他們基本上一個大的社區在台中豐原的公老坪那個其實是非常成功的那我們也希望能夠補助他可以處理多少量體沒有 他自己會去把這個資源把它做好詳細的分類什麼樣的資源 我說的我們剛剛討論到現在說的是這些文廣式的這些農業設施的農費喔您提的是這個嗎\n各種它的所有的東西我現在講的是這個部分我們針對這個部分討論好不好因為你如果沒有解決這個部分你講別的因為你把它扯遠了我們現在講的是這個部分它這些網子我們以前看到海洋生物很多\n環境部長也在這裡我們有很多海洋的生物看到他們在受到解救的時候就是被很多的網子塑膠去把它捆住今天我們的河川生態也會造成這樣的影響因為你都是網子這是政府也有補助的\n那你在後端沒有辦法做這樣的承諾嗎你們可以去評估看看他必須要多少的預算當你每年編到兩兆多將近三兆的預算的時候你沒有辦法去考量一點點這樣的預算嗎過去我們在資源回收我剛剛講過去甚至很多人還會認為說欸慈濟的資源回收做得非常好可是慈濟就是因為做得非常好他甚至他們可以做的資源回收的一些生活來源\n都會受到影響那就是因為政府有這樣的政策有這麼多的民眾幫我們做好比你自己要去做會更好這個部分院長可不可以慎重的去評估考量可不可以推動這樣的政策至少在你前端你都還沒有做出這樣相關的處置作為或者像這樣子的一個去化的一個方式的時候可不可以做這樣的考量讓農民也一起來協助這個部分\n剛剛委員報告我會請環境部農業部來做檢討分析讓我來做判斷之後這個事情該由中央來做或是跟地方怎麼樣來做合作我們會有一套方法出來希望這就是對農民的照顧落實到他不要讓他產生這種廢棄物而且廢棄物可以再善加利用\n他如果沒有回收就不可能參加利用這一次因為我很遺憾因為我覺得說這個是非常小的事情今天院長我很希望你面對這個尤其是今天站在農業部跟環境部兩位\n的中間院長如果這個部分對我們的環境永續對農民是有幫助的我們很希望其實是由你來做承諾當然面對困難的時候我們去解決可是如果有什麼樣的問題如果我們可以承擔它是一個政策它不是只有南投會發生它所有的農業設施上面只要有溫暖室都會有這樣的那個問題產生\n請委員容許我們讓他做專業的分析檢討之後我們才能做正確的判斷那我們會往這個方向走所以如果是這樣院長會願意朝這樣如果說他的評估是可行的院長可以去去同意這樣子的一個政策推動嗎當然我們在照顧榮民的各種方面而且到底中央來做或是跟地方怎麼合作所以還是地方如果地方可以做那我們今天也不用\n跟院長在這裡探討了非常感謝院長在這時候想到地方可是我們更希望地方可以協助的不是只有預算的部分如果我們斤斤計較台灣很難好而且我們的環境也很難好今天我們南投提供了很多的天然資源尤其是水資源我們\n說要給彰化使用的時候大家都沒有話說我們受到很多的限制可是我們更希望中央在很多政策上面可以獨當一面而且挑起對農民照顧的這樣的責任在這裡代表我們很多很多全國的農民拜託院長因為這個新聞從\n南到北到處都有發生這個農費的這個問題其實我相信農業部非常清楚他存在很久了如果沒有一個具體的有我們農民有我們中央有我們地方政府大家一起來共同解決他很難把它做好我過去的經驗就是資源回收曾經非常好的時候就是因為有這樣的補貼的政策希望院長可以慎重的考慮為了我們所有的行政的推動可以讓他\n好 謝謝馬文堅委員質詢謝謝卓院長 各部會首長的備詢 謝謝接下來我們請邱若驊委員請質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.727 --> 00:06.751\n謝謝主席麻煩請院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n\n00:19.530 --> 00:36.751\n院長好院長上個禮拜其實我們在質詢農業部的時候有特別提到就是我們農民溫往事的那個廢棄物的去化的部分那今天因為有衛福部他主要的他的這些業務\n\n00:37.913 --> 00:56.975\n可能是跟他是更相關的所以在這裡我們針對這個部分像他極端氣候變蟲害的影響的因應農民對於溫暖室的這樣子的設施需求也越來越大然後農業部的預算補助也越編越高可是\n\n00:57.695 --> 01:24.443\n也因為這樣因為農民的需求還有我們政府的補助所以讓它的那個量體還有它整個那個數量其實也越來越多那在這個部分當然也造成我們上一次提過的這個溫網式的這些廢棄物它的處理問題其實已經不斷的產生比如說像南投縣它是以農業為主那南投縣的山坡地面積\n\n01:26.104 --> 01:42.297\n它占比高達95%所以對於這樣子像我們有很多的一些濃膜它包含棚膜跟地膜這些濃膜其實它可能還可以製成塑膠粒它可以\n\n01:43.098 --> 02:08.719\n加工再利用如果他有回收的話可是另外還有那些往事的廢棄物他又就是像那種網子的他又重又厚然後也不易處理更重要的他如果在土地上面其實他百年都不會分解也不會腐爛所以基本上像這一些農業廢棄物清潔隊是不收的\n\n02:09.480 --> 02:29.994\n那上一次我們也有提到因為農業部負責補助可是他在他的去化上面他好像也是無能為力對我們整個縣內來說所以我們也常常看到因為像現在包括很多建築廢棄物也都是往山裡去偷盜偷埋那現在又有這些農業廢棄物對我們這些好山好水或者\n\n02:30.734 --> 02:59.949\n包括院長之前你也剛去主持過草屯的那個鳥嘴潭人工湖它的那個落成啟用很重要的是因為我們的水質都是由山上直接整個河川這樣流下來那它的水質夠好那水量也夠大所以我們可以維繫這樣的一個人工湖可是當我們不斷的破壞環境的時候或者我們沒有一個好的這些政策的處理方式的時候其實它的污染\n\n03:00.529 --> 03:28.110\n或者它未來造成河川的這些可能不管是污染也好土石裂補也好或者甚至對於土地的污染其實也都會非常嚴重因為它就是沒有辦法分解所以我們之前其實南投縣曾經在幾次重大的天災也發生過這樣的事情你只要像有一些樹木倒塌或者像這些廢棄物有人蓄意去傾倒或者丟棄的這些廢棄物\n\n03:29.651 --> 03:58.314\n就造成很多的天然災害更加的嚴峻危險所以就這個部分我們是不是有什麼樣的方式那個為環境部可以來做一個有效的處理方式因為我們現在看到農民他最大的困難點就是當你要收的時候還不是清潔隊你要收的時候他必須要乾淨然後有時候還要破碎\n\n03:59.555 --> 04:15.507\n第二個他是進入像我剛剛提到的南投縣有95%都是山坡地如果要開車去收是因為要有事業廢棄物的那個公司來收可是要進這些偏遠地區或山區他的車輛要有證的不然你隨便去載還會被罰\n\n04:20.530 --> 04:48.146\n這是第二個那第三個他像一般的車輛會法以外他對這些農民來說他的運費跟處理費就會非常的高因為他比較遠然後你的量體如果一些然後他還要請廢棄物的那個還要付處理費還有運費那很多農民他就乾脆就隨便丟隨便處置或隨便買了這個對我們整個環境造成的影響是非常大的\n\n04:48.746 --> 05:09.958\n所以像這些會產生這樣子農業廢棄物它很重要的原因第一個當然就是年限到了第二個就是發生颱風或天災的時候它被摧毀了那既然這樣那農民可見他有三大損失第一個損失就是如果有這麼大的颱風可以把農業設施摧毀他就是他的農產品大概也損失慘重\n\n05:14.660 --> 05:32.773\n第二個這些設施損壞他可能包括這些設施的投資也是損失慘重第三個如果要處理這些費我們損失的農產品還有像這樣子的設施的話他還要負擔這些運費跟處理費對農民來說其實是很困難所以就這個方向\n\n05:38.917 --> 05:46.340\n已經發生很久了而且這個歷年好像也都有在討論我們環境部有沒有什麼樣具體的做法\n\n05:46.957 --> 06:08.602\n好報告委員這個農廢的部分這現在是還是農業部在主政那我也坦承說其實因為我們的分類裡面這種在每一個這個業務主管機關來說的話他可能當成廢棄物在處理他沒有辦法到我們的這個環境部的廢棄物的處理的程序那未來呢我們這個希望下個會期能夠送我們的志願循環推動法\n\n06:08.982 --> 06:36.371\n未來會有我們環境部來統一來主政結果就會更好一點點那對我來說這個不是廢棄物是資源啦所以未來我們會把它當成資源來看待會更好那現在呢我會來跟那個農業部來協商南投的問題因為每個地方有每個地方的問題像我知道農業部在中部台中有一個可以去化的一個地方但是我必須說我的了解量能還是不大夠所以委員說的的確是一個問題那我們希望有短中長期來解決這個問題\n\n06:38.406 --> 07:05.871\n所以下個會期我們環境部就會介入一起跟農業部一起去處理嘛我們希望說那個法可以訂好把它分工更明確在沒有法之前因為它已經存在了院長也在這裡我們相關的環境部也在這裡今天還沒有法的時候它還是可以處理啊它只是用什麼樣方式去處理而已在這裡也特別要提出呼籲也請院長可以去考量就是\n\n07:06.331 --> 07:34.932\n在我們因為過去我們可以看到我們的資源回收做得非常好那時候你不管是紙啊還有什麼寶特瓶啊玻璃瓶啊或者所有相關只要可以回收的大家的分類都做得很好而且也很多人在幫忙回收包括很多弱勢的一些民眾其實他也可以以此為生那時候很重要的一個政策是因為我們那時候的環保署他是有補助的\n\n07:35.692 --> 07:56.609\n所以就讓很多人願意去好好的把它分類然後好好的去甚至做資源回收所以我在想如果像這個部分我們是不是可以來專案補助剛剛我提到農民其實他會有很多的困難包括未來即使你們已經找到處理的方式可是對農民的負擔來說他會發生這樣子的廢棄物的產生的時候其實他已經有非常大的損失了\n\n08:02.293 --> 08:28.818\n如果他還要負擔這些其實是非常沉重的負擔這個部分是不是我們也可以考慮院長是不是可以考慮我們用專案補助的方式一方面可以解決農民的困難第二還可以讓我們的環境永續去好好的經營因為他至少你就不會讓他有這樣子的一個可能性會降到比較低因為他可以好好的處理那這個部分可不可以朝這樣來執行\n\n08:30.558 --> 08:36.522\n報告委員這個其實我們會積極來跟南投縣的農業局跟環保局來討論這個事情我們現在講的不是我知道我知道我剛剛提到的是專案補助的部分這個不是跟縣政府跟縣政府補助你們是怎麼去化怎麼找到地點我現在說的是當農民承受這麼大的損失的時候他還是必須要支出這些部分是不是可以專案補助就像我們過去在做資源回收的時候因為你只要花一點點的這些\n\n09:00.138 --> 09:21.557\n我們政府的預算可是它可以擁保我們整體環境台灣就這麼小當你上面有污染的時候我們的河川我們所有的土地包括我們下游需要的這些水質其實都會受到影響那這個部分對整體的政策來說如果是正向的院長可不可以考慮請院長回答好不好\n\n09:22.379 --> 09:48.991\n我們會請農業部跟環境部剛剛委員剛剛的建議我們拿進來討論來考慮一下來討論因為我們提到的就是說因為環境部如果你因為你在前端你做這樣的補助當然對農民是好的可是你在後端當他有這麼大的損失的時候你又沒有辦法有收成的時候這個部分我們也請環境部跟那個就是我們環境部跟那個農業部其實你們處理的是\n\n09:49.571 --> 10:09.841\n是已經發生的啦這個部分可能還是要院長來做一個裁決如果像這樣我們去疼惜我們的農民讓他受到當然不是每一次都要啊你一定是有比較大的這樣子的損害的時候你才需要去啟動這樣子的一個補助的方案所以這個部分請院長可以慎重考量好不好\n\n10:10.661 --> 10:11.802\n環境部跟農業部\n\n10:28.131 --> 10:35.058\n我們可以來研議我們在台中豐原已經有一些小鎮也是農業的已經有零廢棄的小鎮我們要鼓勵他出來了我們是鼓勵農民零廢棄來做這個事而不是說他製造廢棄物之後他們現在是怎麼做可以零廢棄\n\n10:50.194 --> 11:04.798\n有他們基本上一個大的社區在台中豐原的公老坪那個其實是非常成功的那我們也希望能夠補助他可以處理多少量體沒有他自己會去把這個資源把它做好詳細的分類什麼樣的資源我說的我們剛剛討論到現在說的是這些文廣式的這些農業設施的農費喔您提的是這個嗎\n\n11:13.581 --> 11:29.630\n各種它的所有的東西我現在講的是這個部分我們針對這個部分討論好不好因為你如果沒有解決這個部分你講別的因為你把它扯遠了我們現在講的是這個部分它這些網子我們以前看到海洋生物很多\n\n11:30.951 --> 11:45.387\n環境部長也在這裡我們有很多海洋的生物看到他們在受到解救的時候就是被很多的網子塑膠去把它捆住今天我們的河川生態也會造成這樣的影響因為你都是網子這是政府也有補助的\n\n11:46.328 --> 12:15.168\n那你在後端沒有辦法做這樣的承諾嗎你們可以去評估看看他必須要多少的預算當你每年編到兩兆多將近三兆的預算的時候你沒有辦法去考量一點點這樣的預算嗎過去我們在資源回收我剛剛講過去甚至很多人還會認為說欸慈濟的資源回收做得非常好可是慈濟就是因為做得非常好他甚至他們可以做的資源回收的一些生活來源\n\n12:15.908 --> 12:40.366\n都會受到影響那就是因為政府有這樣的政策有這麼多的民眾幫我們做好比你自己要去做會更好這個部分院長可不可以慎重的去評估考量可不可以推動這樣的政策至少在你前端你都還沒有做出這樣相關的處置作為或者像這樣子的一個去化的一個方式的時候可不可以做這樣的考量讓農民也一起來協助這個部分\n\n12:44.708 --> 13:01.371\n剛剛委員報告我會請環境部農業部來做檢討分析讓我來做判斷之後這個事情該由中央來做或是跟地方怎麼樣來做合作我們會有一套方法出來希望這就是對農民的照顧落實到他不要讓他產生這種廢棄物而且廢棄物可以再善加利用\n\n13:02.443 --> 13:19.958\n他如果沒有回收就不可能參加利用這一次因為我很遺憾因為我覺得說這個是非常小的事情今天院長我很希望你面對這個尤其是今天站在農業部跟環境部兩位\n\n13:20.658 --> 13:43.125\n的中間院長如果這個部分對我們的環境永續對農民是有幫助的我們很希望其實是由你來做承諾當然面對困難的時候我們去解決可是如果有什麼樣的問題如果我們可以承擔它是一個政策它不是只有南投會發生它所有的農業設施上面只要有溫暖室都會有這樣的那個問題產生\n\n13:45.326 --> 14:12.301\n請委員容許我們讓他做專業的分析檢討之後我們才能做正確的判斷那我們會往這個方向走所以如果是這樣院長會願意朝這樣如果說他的評估是可行的院長可以去去同意這樣子的一個政策推動嗎當然我們在照顧榮民的各種方面而且到底中央來做或是跟地方怎麼合作所以還是地方如果地方可以做那我們今天也不用\n\n14:13.081 --> 14:34.126\n跟院長在這裡探討了非常感謝院長在這時候想到地方可是我們更希望地方可以協助的不是只有預算的部分如果我們斤斤計較台灣很難好而且我們的環境也很難好今天我們南投提供了很多的天然資源尤其是水資源我們\n\n14:35.286 --> 14:50.976\n說要給彰化使用的時候大家都沒有話說我們受到很多的限制可是我們更希望中央在很多政策上面可以獨當一面而且挑起對農民照顧的這樣的責任在這裡代表我們很多很多全國的農民拜託院長因為這個新聞從\n\n14:54.858 --> 15:23.752\n南到北到處都有發生這個農費的這個問題其實我相信農業部非常清楚他存在很久了如果沒有一個具體的有我們農民有我們中央有我們地方政府大家一起來共同解決他很難把它做好我過去的經驗就是資源回收曾經非常好的時候就是因為有這樣的補貼的政策希望院長可以慎重的考慮為了我們所有的行政的推動可以讓他\n\n15:25.870 --> 15:32.307\n好謝謝馬文堅委員質詢謝謝卓院長各部會首長的備詢謝謝接下來我們請邱若驊委員請質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.727,"end":6.751,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩請院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":19.53,"end":36.751,"text":"院長好院長上個禮拜其實我們在質詢農業部的時候有特別提到就是我們農民溫往事的那個廢棄物的去化的部分那今天因為有衛福部他主要的他的這些業務"},{"start":37.913,"end":56.975,"text":"可能是跟他是更相關的所以在這裡我們針對這個部分像他極端氣候變蟲害的影響的因應 農民對於溫暖室的這樣子的設施需求也越來越大然後農業部的預算補助也越編越高可是"},{"start":57.695,"end":84.443,"text":"也因為這樣因為農民的需求還有我們政府的補助所以讓它的那個量體還有它整個那個數量其實也越來越多那在這個部分當然也造成我們上一次提過的這個溫網式的這些廢棄物它的處理問題其實已經不斷的產生比如說像南投縣它是以農業為主那南投縣的山坡地面積"},{"start":86.104,"end":102.297,"text":"它占比高達95%所以對於這樣子像我們有很多的一些濃膜它包含棚膜跟地膜這些濃膜其實它可能還可以製成塑膠粒它可以"},{"start":103.098,"end":128.719,"text":"加工再利用如果他有回收的話可是另外還有那些往事的廢棄物他又就是像那種網子的他又重又厚然後也不易處理更重要的他如果在土地上面其實他百年都不會分解也不會腐爛所以基本上像這一些農業廢棄物清潔隊是不收的"},{"start":129.48,"end":149.994,"text":"那上一次我們也有提到因為農業部負責補助可是他在他的去化上面他好像也是無能為力對我們整個縣內來說所以我們也常常看到因為像現在包括很多建築廢棄物也都是往山裡去偷盜偷埋那現在又有這些農業廢棄物對我們這些好山好水或者"},{"start":150.734,"end":179.949,"text":"包括院長之前你也剛去主持過草屯的那個鳥嘴潭人工湖它的那個落成啟用很重要的是因為我們的水質都是由山上直接整個河川這樣流下來那它的水質夠好那水量也夠大所以我們可以維繫這樣的一個人工湖可是當我們不斷的破壞環境的時候或者我們沒有一個好的這些政策的處理方式的時候其實它的污染"},{"start":180.529,"end":208.11,"text":"或者它未來造成河川的這些可能不管是污染也好土石裂補也好或者甚至對於土地的污染其實也都會非常嚴重因為它就是沒有辦法分解所以我們之前其實南投縣曾經在幾次重大的天災也發生過這樣的事情你只要像有一些樹木倒塌或者像這些廢棄物有人蓄意去傾倒或者丟棄的這些廢棄物"},{"start":209.651,"end":238.314,"text":"就造成很多的天然災害更加的嚴峻危險所以就這個部分我們是不是有什麼樣的方式那個為環境部可以來做一個有效的處理方式因為我們現在看到農民他最大的困難點就是當你要收的時候還不是清潔隊你要收的時候他必須要乾淨然後有時候還要破碎"},{"start":239.555,"end":255.507,"text":"第二個他是進入像我剛剛提到的南投縣有95%都是山坡地如果要開車去收是因為要有事業廢棄物的那個公司來收可是要進這些偏遠地區或山區他的車輛要有證的不然你隨便去載還會被罰"},{"start":260.53,"end":288.146,"text":"這是第二個那第三個他像一般的車輛會法以外他對這些農民來說他的運費跟處理費就會非常的高因為他比較遠然後你的量體如果一些然後他還要請廢棄物的那個還要付處理費還有運費那很多農民他就乾脆就隨便丟隨便處置或隨便買了這個對我們整個環境造成的影響是非常大的"},{"start":288.746,"end":309.958,"text":"所以像這些會產生這樣子農業廢棄物它很重要的原因第一個當然就是年限到了第二個就是發生颱風或天災的時候它被摧毀了那既然這樣 那農民可見他有三大損失第一個損失就是如果有這麼大的颱風可以把農業設施摧毀他就是他的農產品大概也損失慘重"},{"start":314.66,"end":332.773,"text":"第二個這些設施損壞他可能包括這些設施的投資也是損失慘重第三個如果要處理這些費我們損失的農產品還有像這樣子的設施的話他還要負擔這些運費跟處理費對農民來說其實是很困難所以就這個方向"},{"start":338.917,"end":346.34,"text":"已經發生很久了而且這個歷年好像也都有在討論我們環境部有沒有什麼樣具體的做法"},{"start":346.957,"end":368.602,"text":"好 報告委員 這個農廢的部分這現在是還是農業部在主政那我也坦承說其實因為我們的分類裡面這種在每一個這個業務主管機關來說的話他可能當成廢棄物在處理他沒有辦法到我們的這個環境部的廢棄物的處理的程序那未來呢我們這個希望下個會期能夠送我們的志願循環推動法"},{"start":368.982,"end":396.371,"text":"未來會有我們環境部來統一來主政結果就會更好一點點那對我來說這個不是廢棄物是資源啦所以未來我們會把它當成資源來看待會更好那現在呢我會來跟那個農業部來協商南投的問題因為每個地方有每個地方的問題像我知道農業部在中部台中有一個可以去化的一個地方但是我必須說我的了解量能還是不大夠所以委員說的的確是一個問題那我們希望有短中長期來解決這個問題"},{"start":398.406,"end":425.871,"text":"所以下個會期我們環境部就會介入一起跟農業部一起去處理嘛我們希望說那個法可以訂好把它分工更明確在沒有法之前因為它已經存在了院長也在這裡我們相關的環境部也在這裡今天還沒有法的時候它還是可以處理啊它只是用什麼樣方式去處理而已在這裡也特別要提出呼籲也請院長可以去考量就是"},{"start":426.331,"end":454.932,"text":"在我們因為過去我們可以看到我們的資源回收做得非常好那時候你不管是紙啊還有什麼寶特瓶啊玻璃瓶啊或者所有相關只要可以回收的大家的分類都做得很好而且也很多人在幫忙回收包括很多弱勢的一些民眾其實他也可以以此為生那時候很重要的一個政策是因為我們那時候的環保署他是有補助的"},{"start":455.692,"end":476.609,"text":"所以就讓很多人願意去好好的把它分類然後好好的去甚至做資源回收所以我在想如果像這個部分我們是不是可以來專案補助剛剛我提到農民其實他會有很多的困難包括未來即使你們已經找到處理的方式可是對農民的負擔來說他會發生這樣子的廢棄物的產生的時候其實他已經有非常大的損失了"},{"start":482.293,"end":508.818,"text":"如果他還要負擔這些其實是非常沉重的負擔這個部分是不是我們也可以考慮院長是不是可以考慮我們用專案補助的方式一方面可以解決農民的困難第二還可以讓我們的環境永續去好好的經營因為他至少你就不會讓他有這樣子的一個可能性會降到比較低因為他可以好好的處理那這個部分可不可以朝這樣來執行"},{"start":510.558,"end":516.522,"text":"報告委員 這個其實我們會積極來跟南投縣的農業局跟環保局來討論這個事情我們現在講的不是我知道 我知道我剛剛提到的是專案補助的部分這個不是跟縣政府 跟縣政府補助你們是怎麼去化 怎麼找到地點我現在說的是當農民承受這麼大的損失的時候他還是必須要支出這些部分是不是可以專案補助就像我們過去在做資源回收的時候因為你只要花一點點的這些"},{"start":540.138,"end":561.557,"text":"我們政府的預算可是它可以擁保我們整體環境台灣就這麼小當你上面有污染的時候我們的河川我們所有的土地包括我們下游需要的這些水質其實都會受到影響那這個部分對整體的政策來說如果是正向的院長可不可以考慮請院長回答好不好"},{"start":562.379,"end":588.991,"text":"我們會請農業部跟環境部剛剛委員剛剛的建議我們拿進來討論來考慮一下來討論因為我們提到的就是說因為環境部如果你因為你在前端你做這樣的補助當然對農民是好的可是你在後端當他有這麼大的損失的時候你又沒有辦法有收成的時候這個部分我們也請環境部跟那個就是我們環境部跟那個農業部其實你們處理的是"},{"start":589.571,"end":609.841,"text":"是已經發生的啦這個部分可能還是要院長來做一個裁決如果像這樣我們去疼惜我們的農民讓他受到當然不是每一次都要啊你一定是有比較大的這樣子的損害的時候你才需要去啟動這樣子的一個補助的方案所以這個部分請院長可以慎重考量好不好"},{"start":610.661,"end":611.802,"text":"環境部跟農業部"},{"start":628.131,"end":635.058,"text":"我們可以來研議我們在台中豐原已經有一些小鎮也是農業的已經有零廢棄的小鎮我們要鼓勵他出來了我們是鼓勵農民零廢棄來做這個事而不是說他製造廢棄物之後他們現在是怎麼做可以零廢棄"},{"start":650.194,"end":664.798,"text":"有 他們基本上一個大的社區在台中豐原的公老坪那個其實是非常成功的那我們也希望能夠補助他可以處理多少量體沒有 他自己會去把這個資源把它做好詳細的分類什麼樣的資源 我說的我們剛剛討論到現在說的是這些文廣式的這些農業設施的農費喔您提的是這個嗎"},{"start":673.581,"end":689.63,"text":"各種它的所有的東西我現在講的是這個部分我們針對這個部分討論好不好因為你如果沒有解決這個部分你講別的因為你把它扯遠了我們現在講的是這個部分它這些網子我們以前看到海洋生物很多"},{"start":690.951,"end":705.387,"text":"環境部長也在這裡我們有很多海洋的生物看到他們在受到解救的時候就是被很多的網子塑膠去把它捆住今天我們的河川生態也會造成這樣的影響因為你都是網子這是政府也有補助的"},{"start":706.328,"end":735.168,"text":"那你在後端沒有辦法做這樣的承諾嗎你們可以去評估看看他必須要多少的預算當你每年編到兩兆多將近三兆的預算的時候你沒有辦法去考量一點點這樣的預算嗎過去我們在資源回收我剛剛講過去甚至很多人還會認為說欸慈濟的資源回收做得非常好可是慈濟就是因為做得非常好他甚至他們可以做的資源回收的一些生活來源"},{"start":735.908,"end":760.366,"text":"都會受到影響那就是因為政府有這樣的政策有這麼多的民眾幫我們做好比你自己要去做會更好這個部分院長可不可以慎重的去評估考量可不可以推動這樣的政策至少在你前端你都還沒有做出這樣相關的處置作為或者像這樣子的一個去化的一個方式的時候可不可以做這樣的考量讓農民也一起來協助這個部分"},{"start":764.708,"end":781.371,"text":"剛剛委員報告我會請環境部農業部來做檢討分析讓我來做判斷之後這個事情該由中央來做或是跟地方怎麼樣來做合作我們會有一套方法出來希望這就是對農民的照顧落實到他不要讓他產生這種廢棄物而且廢棄物可以再善加利用"},{"start":782.443,"end":799.958,"text":"他如果沒有回收就不可能參加利用這一次因為我很遺憾因為我覺得說這個是非常小的事情今天院長我很希望你面對這個尤其是今天站在農業部跟環境部兩位"},{"start":800.658,"end":823.125,"text":"的中間院長如果這個部分對我們的環境永續對農民是有幫助的我們很希望其實是由你來做承諾當然面對困難的時候我們去解決可是如果有什麼樣的問題如果我們可以承擔它是一個政策它不是只有南投會發生它所有的農業設施上面只要有溫暖室都會有這樣的那個問題產生"},{"start":825.326,"end":852.301,"text":"請委員容許我們讓他做專業的分析檢討之後我們才能做正確的判斷那我們會往這個方向走所以如果是這樣院長會願意朝這樣如果說他的評估是可行的院長可以去去同意這樣子的一個政策推動嗎當然我們在照顧榮民的各種方面而且到底中央來做或是跟地方怎麼合作所以還是地方如果地方可以做那我們今天也不用"},{"start":853.081,"end":874.126,"text":"跟院長在這裡探討了非常感謝院長在這時候想到地方可是我們更希望地方可以協助的不是只有預算的部分如果我們斤斤計較台灣很難好而且我們的環境也很難好今天我們南投提供了很多的天然資源尤其是水資源我們"},{"start":875.286,"end":890.976,"text":"說要給彰化使用的時候大家都沒有話說我們受到很多的限制可是我們更希望中央在很多政策上面可以獨當一面而且挑起對農民照顧的這樣的責任在這裡代表我們很多很多全國的農民拜託院長因為這個新聞從"},{"start":894.858,"end":923.752,"text":"南到北到處都有發生這個農費的這個問題其實我相信農業部非常清楚他存在很久了如果沒有一個具體的有我們農民有我們中央有我們地方政府大家一起來共同解決他很難把它做好我過去的經驗就是資源回收曾經非常好的時候就是因為有這樣的補貼的政策希望院長可以慎重的考慮為了我們所有的行政的推動可以讓他"},{"start":925.87,"end":932.307,"text":"好 謝謝馬文堅委員質詢謝謝卓院長 各部會首長的備詢 謝謝接下來我們請邱若驊委員請質詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":647,"blocks":[["馬委員文君：（17時17分）謝謝主席，麻煩請院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：馬委員好。"],["馬委員文君：院長好。院長，上個禮拜我們在質詢農業部時，有特別提到農民溫網室廢棄物去化的部分，今天因為有衛福部主要的這些業務，可能跟它是更相關的，所以在這裡我們針對這部分，像極端氣候、病蟲害影響的因應……"],["卓院長榮泰：衛福部？環境部吧！"],["馬委員文君：農民對於溫網室設施的需求也越來越大，農業部的預算補助也越編越高，可是也因為農民的需求，還有我們政府的補助，所以讓其量體還有整個數量也越來越多。在這個部分，當然也造成我們上次提過溫網室這些廢棄物的處理問題，其實已經不斷地產生，比如說，像南投縣以農業為主，南投縣的山坡地面積占比高達95%，對於這樣子，像我們有很多的農膜，包含棚膜跟地膜，這些農模其實還可以製成塑膠粒，可以加工再利用，如果它有回收的話。可是另外還有那些網室的廢棄物，像那種網子的，它又重又厚，也不易處理，更重要的是它如果在土地上面，其實它百年都不會分解，也不會腐爛，所以基本上，像這一些農業廢棄物清潔隊是不收的。上一次我們也有提到，因為農業部負責補助，可是它在其去化上面好像也是無能為力，對整個縣內來說。所以我們也常常看到，現在包括很多建築廢棄物也都是往山裡去偷倒、偷埋，現在又有這些農業廢棄物，對這些好山、好水或者包括院長之前也主持過草屯鳥嘴潭人工湖的落成啟用，很重要的是因為我們的水質都是由山上整個河川直接這樣流下來，它的水質夠好，水量也夠大，所以我們可以維繫這樣的一個人工湖。可是當我們不斷破壞環境的時候或者沒有好的政策處理方式的時候，其實它的污染或者它未來造成河川不管是污染也好、土石流也好或者甚至對於土地的污染，其實也都會非常嚴重，因為它就是沒有辦法分解。之前南投縣曾經在幾次重大的天災也發生過這樣的事情，只要有一些樹木倒塌或者這些廢棄物有人蓄意去傾倒或丟棄廢棄物，就造成很多的天然災害更加嚴峻危險。","就這個部分，我們是不是有什麼樣的方式？環境部可以做一個有效的處理方式。我們現在看到農民最大的困難點就是，當要收的時候，還不是清潔隊，要收的時候它必須要乾淨，有時候還要破碎。第二個，它是進入像我剛剛提到的，南投縣有95%都是山坡地，如果要開車去收，因為要由事業廢棄物的公司來收，可是要進這些偏遠地區或山區，它的車輛是要有證的，不然隨便去載還會被罰，這是第二個。第三個，除了一般的車輛會罰以外，對這些農民來說，它的運費跟處理費就會非常高，因為比較遠，如果量體是一些，請廢棄物的公司還要付處理費及運費，所以很多農民就乾脆隨便丟、隨便處置或隨便埋，這個對整個環境造成的影響是非常大的。","會產生這樣的農業廢棄物的很重要原因是，第一個，當然就是年限到了。第二個，發生颱風或天災的時候，它被吹壞了，可見農民有三大損失，第一個損失是，如果有這麼大的颱風可以把農業設施吹壞，那他的農產品大概也損失慘重；第二個，這些設施損壞，可能包括設施的投資也是損失慘重；第三個，如果要處理這些損失的農產品及像這樣子的設施的話，他還要負擔這些運費跟處理費，對農民來說其實是很困難。這個已經發生很久了，而且歷年好像也都有在討論，環境部有沒有什麼樣具體的作法？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，關於農廢的部分，現在還是由農業部主政，我也坦承說，我們的分類裡面，這種對每一個業務主管機關來說，它可能當成廢棄物處理，它沒有辦法到環境部的廢棄物處理程序。我們希望下個會期能夠送出資源循環推動法，未來會由環境部統一主政，結果就會更好一點點。對我來說，這個不是廢棄物，是資源，未來我們把它當成資源來看待會更好。現在我會跟農業部協商南投的問題，因為每個地方有每個地方的問題，我知道像農業部在臺中有一個可以去化的地方，但是我必須說，據我了解其量能還是不大夠。委員說的的確是一個問題，我們希望分短、中、長期來解決這個問題。"],["馬委員文君：所以下個會期衛福部就會……"],["彭部長啓明：環境部。"],["馬委員文君：環境部就會介入，跟農業部一起去處理，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對，我們希望那個法可以訂定好，把它分工更明確之後……"],["馬委員文君：在沒有法之前，因為它已經存在了，院長在這裡，環境部也在這裡，在還沒有法的時候，它還是可以處理，只是用什麼樣的方式去處理而已。在這裡也特別提出呼籲，也請院長可以去考量，因為過去我們可以看到資源回收做得非常好，那時候不管是紙、寶特瓶、玻璃瓶或者所有相關的，只要可以回收的，大家的分類都做得很好，而且有很多人在幫忙回收，包括很多弱勢的一些民眾，其實他也可以以此為生，那時候很重要的一個政策是因為當時的環保署是有補助的，所以就讓很多人願意去好好地把它分類，甚至好好地去做資源回收。所以我在想，像這個部分，我們是不是可以來專案補助？剛剛我提到，其實農民會有很多的困難，包括未來即使你們已經找到處理的方式，可是對農民的負擔來說，當他產生這樣的廢棄物的時候，其實他已經有非常大的損失了，如果他還要負擔這些，對他們來說其實是非常沉重的負擔。針對這個部分，院長是不是可以考慮用專案補助的方式？一方面可以解決農民的困難，一方面還可以讓我們的環境永續，去好好地經營，至少這樣的可能性就會降得比較低，因為它可以好好地處理，這個部分可不可以朝這樣來執行？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們會積極跟南投縣的農業局跟環保局來討論這個事情，這是第一個。"],["馬委員文君：我們現在講的不是……"],["彭部長啓明：我知道。"],["馬委員文君：我剛剛提到的是專案補助的部分，這個不是跟縣政府，跟縣政府補助的是你們怎麼去化、怎麼找到地點，但我現在說的是，當農民承受這麼大的損失的時候，他還是必須要支出這些部分，這部分是不是可以專案補助？就像我們過去在做資源回收的時候，因為你只要花一點點政府的預算，就可以永保我們整體的環境，臺灣就這麼小，當上面有污染的時候，我們的河川、我們所有的土地，包括我們下游需要的這些水質，其實都會受到影響。如果這個部分對整體的政策來說是正向的，院長可不可以考慮？請院長回答。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會請農業部跟環境部把委員剛剛的建議納進來討論。"],["彭部長啓明：來考慮一下、來討論。"],["馬委員文君：因為我們提到了，如果環境部在前端做這樣的補助，當然對農民是好的，可是你在後端，當他有這麼大的損失的時候，又沒有辦法有收成的時候，這個部分我也請環境部跟農業部來協助，其實你們處理的是已經發生的，這個部分可能還是要院長來做裁決，如果我們可以去疼惜我們的農民，當他受到……當然不是每一次都要，一定是有比較大的損害的時候，你才需要去啟動這樣的補助方案，所以這個部分請院長慎重考量，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["馬委員文君：可不可以？因為你在處理的時候，必須要有一些費用，跟我們在講資源回收這樣的概念，因為它也不會耗費很多的資源，這個部分可不可以去考量？請院長回答。"],["卓院長榮泰：環境部和農業部檢討之後會跟委員說明……"],["彭部長啓明：我們可以來研議。"],["卓院長榮泰：我覺得這個是一個珍惜……就像剛剛部長講的，對它來講這個是資源，我們要善用資源。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們在臺中豐原已經有一些小鎮，也是農業的，已經有零廢棄的小鎮，我們要鼓勵它出來了，我們是鼓勵農民零廢棄來做這個事，而不是他製造廢棄物之後，我們再來花錢處理。"],["馬委員文君：他們現在是怎麼做到零廢棄？"],["彭部長啓明：有，他們基本上……"],["馬委員文君：怎麼做？"],["彭部長啓明：是一個大的社區，在臺中豐原的公老坪，那個其實是非常成功的案例，我們也希望能夠補助他變成……"],["馬委員文君：他可以處理多少量體？"],["彭部長啓明：沒有，他自己會去把資源做好詳細的分類。"],["馬委員文君：什麼樣的資源？我們剛剛討論到現在說的是溫網室的農業設施的農廢，你提的是這個嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：各種，他所有的東西都有回收。"],["馬委員文君：我現在講的是這個部分，我們針對這個部分討論好不好？因為你如果沒有解決這個部分，你講別的，因為你把它扯遠了，我們現在講的是這個部分，這些網子，環境部長也在這裡，我們以前看到很多海洋生物受到解救的時候，就是被很多的網子、塑膠捆住，今天我們的河川生態也會造成這樣的影響，因為都是網子，這是政府也有補助的，你在後端沒有辦法做這樣的承諾嗎？你們可以去評估看看這必須要多少預算，當你每年編到二兆多、將近三兆預算的時候，你沒有辦法去考量一點點這樣的預算嗎？過去我們在資源回收，我剛剛講了，過去甚至很多人還會認為慈濟的資源回收做得非常好，可是就是因為慈濟做得非常好，甚至他們可以做資源回收的一些生活來源都會受到影響，就是因為政府有這樣的政策有這麼多的民眾幫我們做好，比你自己去做會更好，院長，這個部分可不可以慎重的評估考量？可不可以推動這樣的政策？至少在你前端都還沒有做出相關的處置作為時或者像這樣子去化的方式的時候，可不可以做這樣的考量，讓農民也一起來協助這個部分？"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛跟委員報告，我會請環境部、農業部檢討分析，然後我來判斷之後，這個事情該由中央做或是跟地方怎麼樣合作，我們會有一套方法出來，希望這就是落實對農民的照顧，不要讓它產生這種廢棄物，而且廢棄物可以再善加利用。"],["馬委員文君：它如果沒有回收就不可能善加利用。這一次我很遺憾，我覺得這個是非常小的事情，我很希望院長面對這一個問題，尤其你今天站在農業部跟環境部兩位部長的中間，如果對我們的環境永續、對農民是有幫助的，其實我們很希望是由你來承諾。當然，面對困難的時候，我們要去解決，如果有什麼樣的問題、如果我們可以承擔，它是一個政策，不是只有南投會發生，所有的農業設施上面只要有溫網室的都會有這樣的問題產生。"],["卓院長榮泰：請委員容許我們讓它做專業的分析檢討之後，我們才能做正確的判斷。"],["馬委員文君：可以。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會往這個方向走。"],["馬委員文君：所以院長願意朝這樣，如果它的評估是可行的，院長可以同意這樣的政策推動嗎？就是專案補助的部分。"],["卓院長榮泰：當然，我們在照顧農民的各種方面，而且到底中央來做或是跟地方怎麼合作，這個將來會做一個平臺。"],["馬委員文君：如果地方可以做，我們今天也不用跟院長在這裡探討了。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，好的。"],["馬委員文君：非常感謝院長在這時候想到地方，可是我們更希望可以協助地方的不是只有預算的部分，如果我們斤斤計較，臺灣很難好，而且我們的環境也很難好。今天我們南投提供了很多的天然資源，尤其是水資源，我們要給彰化使用的時候大家都沒有話說，我們受到很多的限制，可是我們更希望中央在很多政策上面可以獨當一面，而且負起對農民照顧的責任。我再次代表我們全國很多很多的農民拜託院長，因為這個新聞從南到北到處都有發生，其實我相信農廢的問題農業部非常清楚，它存在很久了，如果沒有一個具體的方式，由我們農民、由中央、由地方政府大家一起來共同解決，很難把它做好。過去的經驗，資源回收曾經非常好的時候，就是因為有這樣補貼的政策，希望院長可以慎重的考慮，為了我們所有行政的推動可以讓它更好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝馬文君委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、各部會首長的備詢。","接下來我們請邱若華委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-10","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","陳超明","黃建賓","魯明哲","顏寬恒","陳玉珍","林倩綺","林沛祥","黃國昌","林國成","李昆澤","林月琴","賴士葆","黃秀芳","王正旭","盧縣一","李彥秀","楊曜","麥玉珍","廖偉翔","陳菁徽","林淑芬","馬文君","邱若華","蘇巧慧"],"page_start":117,"meetingDate":["2025-05-06"],"gazette_id":"1144201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144201_00004","1144201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第10次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1144201_00004"}}}