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\"start\": 521.881, \"end\": 521.901, \"score\": 0.003}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,004 --> 00:00:08,686\n好謝謝主席本席有請劉部長劉部長有請劉委員好部長好本席就先就剛剛有關我們這個合建契約的問題直接再追問就是說我們在這個合建契約\n\n2\n00:00:27,933 --> 00:00:56,673\n是否內政部有一些數據統計可以佐證就是說合建契約是否會因為行政審議的意見不一致導致履約過程中出現大量的訴訟爭端有沒有這種情況我請署長回應一下感謝啦因為合建契約它內容不會反映不一定會反映在杜庚的計畫書裡面它往往都是雙方私人合議的一些內容\n\n3\n00:00:57,293 --> 00:01:17,633\n那最容易過去的經驗有沒有過去的經驗就是很容易因為因為資訊不對稱他不曉得都更的條例裡面有什麼樣的保障第二個呢過程當中有遇到政策或法令的修正導致雙方的權利義務會發生改變那這些就是一般在合建契約裡面最常出現的問題\n\n4\n00:01:18,514 --> 00:01:41,102\n那內政部有沒有規劃建立那種合建契約的參考版本或資訊平台讓各類型契約有指引就是因為樣態太多種我們樣態太多種沒有辦法用範本的方式因為你就依據不同樣態開始來做跟委員報告因為第一個這是私人契約我們不曉得他們中間的協議內容因為協議內容甚至從\n\n5\n00:01:45,503 --> 00:02:05,149\n單純的分屋分地道還要去賣我沒辦法建立參考版本有沒有諮詢平台所以我根本報告就是說過去我們跟地方政府討論像雙北他們就是去訂出所謂的注意事項那我們覺得注意事項是一個非常好的機制那本席的問題就是說那有沒有要請各縣市政府他可以有一些諮詢平台\n\n6\n00:02:06,950 --> 00:02:22,719\n報告一下我們本來就有補助各縣市政府有相關的輔導團跟專案辦公室那你們的指導有沒有要他成立這個諮詢平台說明一下現在就是透過輔導團跟專案辦公室他們本身就可以做這些事情\n\n7\n00:02:23,467 --> 00:02:39,965\n那現在只是說他們可以做但是他們有沒有做是一回事嗎其實都有都有在接受做這些那接著本席繼續問針對核建爭議較多的類型是否可以先行分類建議原則性的指導\n\n8\n00:02:42,249 --> 00:02:58,330\n報告就是說我們現在就是跟地方政府討論雙北現在是用注意事項也就是說你在訂定這個合建契約的時候雙方要注意哪些內容那第二個呢我們現在還有在討論就是說另外叫做風險控管事項\n\n9\n00:02:59,871 --> 00:03:27,864\n風險控管制也就把過去常發生的樣態你們在執行過程當中要注意哪些執行的風險那提醒雙方在這合約裡面都應該要去注意或建立一些制度那目前部內有沒有五年合建案件爭議類型的分類統計報告目前是沒有但是我們都是透過這個部分我想我剛剛的意思就是說我們透過在跟地方開會請他們把這一類的案件\n\n10\n00:03:28,744 --> 00:03:44,496\n過去所發生的糾紛通通大家統整起來我們來進行做一些分類那也可以提供作為後面我們要訂定相關注意事項跟風險控管事項的這個依據好那最後合建契約協議的輔導小組這一個可以來成立嗎\n\n11\n00:03:49,086 --> 00:03:57,488\n包括就是我們會如果這個內容出來我們一樣會交給地方政府你會不會明確的規範請他們有這樣的一個小組對對應該這麼說啦就是我們目前的預算來講是用輔導團跟專案辦公室的形式那未來我們就再來跟在後面的委託裡面呢就會請他們把這些要輔導這個這個協議合建的部分一併都納進來\n\n12\n00:04:16,432 --> 00:04:26,921\n好謝謝那接著本席要接著問請教部長現在我們整個耐震弱成補強的這樣的一個推動成效好像\n\n13\n00:04:27,697 --> 00:04:54,394\n不是很好報告因為其實我們每年都有編然後再來就是你一年也沒編多少錢我們一年有大概一億多一億多你看一年只可以補助幾戶你自己說應該這麼說我跟委員報告因為其實耐震補強的過程就會從出產品開始目前來講有一些民眾是不太願意是因為他們很擔心列出來的時候狀況沒有很好\n\n14\n00:04:55,393 --> 00:05:18,016\n所以往往都是第一步所以他沒辦法他會影響他的房價所以他不太願意第一步跨出第一步但是因為從921之後然後陸續一些大地震我們都知道說我們事先的補強會有助於未來就是說預防災害的發生那如果你一年一億多我算了一下大概幾十戶\n\n15\n00:05:22,312 --> 00:05:44,807\n一年大概是五到七件一年大概是五到七件你看全國一個縣是分不到一件所以這個我覺得很值得檢討因為我們有感覺到你在都會區或非都會區應該是有它的差異像我們部長當過副市長\n\n16\n00:05:47,709 --> 00:06:03,366\n這光是高雄市區跟以前的高雄縣它就不一樣還有像我們其他非六都的縣市那其實有這種資訊落差的問題所謂資訊落差就是可能有些民眾他不知道\n\n17\n00:06:04,207 --> 00:06:31,364\n其实以一般非都会区它也没有什么会影响它地价你这个可能还是都市思维所以这个部分我们是希望你这样一亿多真的太少好像只是点缀式的没有真的要做那这一块其实也是民众的权益民众的权益健全我们整个都市的发展我们都应该要兼顾所以这个部分应该要来加强吧\n\n18\n00:06:32,069 --> 00:06:52,712\n這根文報告啦其實我們大概每年都有去各縣市做推廣各縣市做推廣那其實我們剛剛講的是一個沒有各縣市推廣可是你一年只有幾間大概過去的經驗就去推廣大概民眾的反應是這樣啦因為尤其大概對於老舊的公寓大概都會有整合的問題因為要提到那一陣補強\n\n19\n00:06:53,803 --> 00:07:11,363\n那其實大家都要共同出資啦因為不會政府不可能百分之百還是會有共同出資的問題但是就會就會出現有人願意出資有人不願意出資所以我們過去的輔導案件很多整合的問題嘛對也會出現整合的問題所以過去在這個案例當中\n\n20\n00:07:12,479 --> 00:07:28,781\n公寓大廈的管理組織其實是非常重要他要能夠去溝通所有的住戶大家一起願意來做那這也是一個很重要的成敗關鍵所以過去曾經我們也高達一年要鞭屍幾億但是慢慢減少也是因為實際上就是因為你們落實不了\n\n21\n00:07:29,201 --> 00:07:47,571\n所以一直減少應該是說在民眾這兩步要能跨得出去這樣會比較容易來進行所以好那我們的宣導還有我們很多的溝通甚至我們的協助也很重要啊是譬如說我們有沒有考慮那種一站式的服務窗口讓各直轄市也好縣市政府\n\n22\n00:07:48,251 --> 00:08:11,619\n我們應該就是說這個政策我們利益非常好剛剛署長講了本來一年可能十幾億甚至我們如果做得好幾十億我們就應該為民眾的這種耐政的弱成補強來加強那可是呢就實施的不好實施不好是因為什麼是因為我覺得有資訊的落差\n\n23\n00:08:13,148 --> 00:08:38,961\n還有我們沒有確實去落實所以今天因為剛好有類似的議題所以本席也在這邊要特別的來強調部長加油一點可以嗎我們會來跟地方來加強第一個溝通第二個是宣傳把問題找出來然後我們應該要加強宣導然後地方政府他也應該要有一些這種服務的窗口要做好我想這我們後面會來加強宣導感謝\n\n24\n00:08:41,861 --> 00:08:41,901\n謝謝徐馨\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4004\t8686\t好謝謝主席本席有請劉部長劉部長有請劉委員好部長好本席就先就剛剛有關我們這個合建契約的問題直接再追問就是說我們在這個合建契約\n27933\t56673\t是否內政部有一些數據統計可以佐證就是說合建契約是否會因為行政審議的意見不一致導致履約過程中出現大量的訴訟爭端有沒有這種情況我請署長回應一下感謝啦因為合建契約它內容不會反映不一定會反映在杜庚的計畫書裡面它往往都是雙方私人合議的一些內容\n57293\t77633\t那最容易過去的經驗有沒有過去的經驗就是很容易因為因為資訊不對稱他不曉得都更的條例裡面有什麼樣的保障第二個呢過程當中有遇到政策或法令的修正導致雙方的權利義務會發生改變那這些就是一般在合建契約裡面最常出現的問題\n78514\t101102\t那內政部有沒有規劃建立那種合建契約的參考版本或資訊平台讓各類型契約有指引就是因為樣態太多種我們樣態太多種沒有辦法用範本的方式因為你就依據不同樣態開始來做跟委員報告因為第一個這是私人契約我們不曉得他們中間的協議內容因為協議內容甚至從\n105503\t125149\t單純的分屋分地道還要去賣我沒辦法建立參考版本有沒有諮詢平台所以我根本報告就是說過去我們跟地方政府討論像雙北他們就是去訂出所謂的注意事項那我們覺得注意事項是一個非常好的機制那本席的問題就是說那有沒有要請各縣市政府他可以有一些諮詢平台\n126950\t142719\t報告一下 我們本來就有補助各縣市政府有相關的輔導團跟專案辦公室那你們的指導有沒有要他成立這個諮詢平台說明一下現在就是透過輔導團跟專案辦公室他們本身就可以做這些事情\n143467\t159965\t那現在只是說他們可以做但是他們有沒有做是一回事嗎其實都有 都有在接受做這些那接著本席繼續問針對核建爭議較多的類型是否可以先行分類建議原則性的指導\n162249\t178330\t報告就是說我們現在就是跟地方政府討論雙北現在是用注意事項也就是說你在訂定這個合建契約的時候雙方要注意哪些內容那第二個呢我們現在還有在討論就是說另外叫做風險控管事項\n179871\t207864\t風險控管制也就把過去常發生的樣態你們在執行過程當中要注意哪些執行的風險那提醒雙方在這合約裡面都應該要去注意或建立一些制度那目前部內有沒有五年合建案件爭議類型的分類統計報告目前是沒有但是我們都是透過這個部分我想我剛剛的意思就是說我們透過在跟地方開會請他們把這一類的案件\n208744\t224496\t過去所發生的糾紛通通大家統整起來我們來進行做一些分類那也可以提供作為後面我們要訂定相關注意事項跟風險控管事項的這個依據好那最後合建契約協議的輔導小組這一個可以來成立嗎\n229086\t237488\t包括就是我們會如果這個內容出來我們一樣會交給地方政府你會不會明確的規範請他們有這樣的一個小組對對應該這麼說啦就是我們目前的預算來講是用輔導團跟專案辦公室的形式那未來我們就再來跟在後面的委託裡面呢就會請他們把這些要輔導這個這個協議合建的部分一併都納進來\n256432\t266921\t好謝謝那接著本席要接著問請教部長現在我們整個耐震弱成補強的這樣的一個推動成效好像\n267697\t294394\t不是很好報告因為其實我們每年都有編然後再來就是你一年也沒編多少錢我們一年有大概一億多一億多你看一年只可以補助幾戶你自己說應該這麼說我跟委員報告因為其實耐震補強的過程就會從出產品開始目前來講有一些民眾是不太願意是因為他們很擔心列出來的時候狀況沒有很好\n295393\t318016\t所以往往都是第一步所以他沒辦法他會影響他的房價所以他不太願意第一步跨出第一步但是因為從921之後然後陸續一些大地震我們都知道說我們事先的補強會有助於未來就是說預防災害的發生那如果你一年一億多我算了一下大概幾十戶\n322312\t344807\t一年大概是五到七件一年大概是五到七件你看全國一個縣是分不到一件所以這個我覺得很值得檢討因為我們有感覺到你在都會區或非都會區應該是有它的差異像我們部長當過副市長\n347709\t363366\t這光是高雄市區跟以前的高雄縣它就不一樣還有像我們其他非六都的縣市那其實有這種資訊落差的問題所謂資訊落差就是可能有些民眾他不知道\n364207\t391364\t其实以一般非都会区它也没有什么会影响它地价你这个可能还是都市思维所以这个部分我们是希望你这样一亿多真的太少好像只是点缀式的没有真的要做那这一块其实也是民众的权益民众的权益健全我们整个都市的发展我们都应该要兼顾所以这个部分应该要来加强吧\n392069\t412712\t這根文報告啦 其實我們大概每年都有去各縣市做推廣各縣市做推廣那其實我們剛剛講的是一個沒有各縣市推廣 可是你一年只有幾間大概過去的經驗就去推廣大概民眾的反應是這樣啦因為尤其大概對於老舊的公寓大概都會有整合的問題因為要提到那一陣補強\n413803\t431363\t那其實大家都要共同出資啦因為不會政府不可能百分之百還是會有共同出資的問題但是就會就會出現有人願意出資有人不願意出資所以我們過去的輔導案件很多 整合的問題嘛對 也會出現整合的問題所以過去在這個案例當中\n432479\t448781\t公寓大廈的管理組織其實是非常重要他要能夠去溝通所有的住戶大家一起願意來做那這也是一個很重要的成敗關鍵所以過去曾經我們也高達一年要鞭屍幾億但是慢慢減少也是因為實際上就是因為你們落實不了\n449201\t467571\t所以一直減少應該是說在民眾這兩步要能跨得出去這樣會比較容易來進行所以好 那我們的宣導還有我們很多的溝通甚至我們的協助也很重要啊是譬如說我們有沒有考慮那種一站式的服務窗口讓各直轄市也好縣市政府\n468251\t491619\t我們應該就是說這個政策我們利益非常好剛剛署長講了本來一年可能十幾億甚至我們如果做得好幾十億我們就應該為民眾的這種耐政的弱成補強來加強那可是呢就實施的不好實施不好是因為什麼是因為我覺得有資訊的落差\n493148\t518961\t還有我們沒有確實去落實所以今天因為剛好有類似的議題所以本席也在這邊要特別的來強調部長加油一點可以嗎我們會來跟地方來加強第一個溝通第二個是宣傳把問題找出來然後我們應該要加強宣導然後地方政府他也應該要有一些這種服務的窗口要做好我想這我們後面會來加強宣導感謝\n521861\t521901\t謝謝徐馨\n","txt":"好謝謝主席本席有請劉部長劉部長有請劉委員好部長好本席就先就剛剛有關我們這個合建契約的問題直接再追問就是說我們在這個合建契約\n是否內政部有一些數據統計可以佐證就是說合建契約是否會因為行政審議的意見不一致導致履約過程中出現大量的訴訟爭端有沒有這種情況我請署長回應一下感謝啦因為合建契約它內容不會反映不一定會反映在杜庚的計畫書裡面它往往都是雙方私人合議的一些內容\n那最容易過去的經驗有沒有過去的經驗就是很容易因為因為資訊不對稱他不曉得都更的條例裡面有什麼樣的保障第二個呢過程當中有遇到政策或法令的修正導致雙方的權利義務會發生改變那這些就是一般在合建契約裡面最常出現的問題\n那內政部有沒有規劃建立那種合建契約的參考版本或資訊平台讓各類型契約有指引就是因為樣態太多種我們樣態太多種沒有辦法用範本的方式因為你就依據不同樣態開始來做跟委員報告因為第一個這是私人契約我們不曉得他們中間的協議內容因為協議內容甚至從\n單純的分屋分地道還要去賣我沒辦法建立參考版本有沒有諮詢平台所以我根本報告就是說過去我們跟地方政府討論像雙北他們就是去訂出所謂的注意事項那我們覺得注意事項是一個非常好的機制那本席的問題就是說那有沒有要請各縣市政府他可以有一些諮詢平台\n報告一下 我們本來就有補助各縣市政府有相關的輔導團跟專案辦公室那你們的指導有沒有要他成立這個諮詢平台說明一下現在就是透過輔導團跟專案辦公室他們本身就可以做這些事情\n那現在只是說他們可以做但是他們有沒有做是一回事嗎其實都有 都有在接受做這些那接著本席繼續問針對核建爭議較多的類型是否可以先行分類建議原則性的指導\n報告就是說我們現在就是跟地方政府討論雙北現在是用注意事項也就是說你在訂定這個合建契約的時候雙方要注意哪些內容那第二個呢我們現在還有在討論就是說另外叫做風險控管事項\n風險控管制也就把過去常發生的樣態你們在執行過程當中要注意哪些執行的風險那提醒雙方在這合約裡面都應該要去注意或建立一些制度那目前部內有沒有五年合建案件爭議類型的分類統計報告目前是沒有但是我們都是透過這個部分我想我剛剛的意思就是說我們透過在跟地方開會請他們把這一類的案件\n過去所發生的糾紛通通大家統整起來我們來進行做一些分類那也可以提供作為後面我們要訂定相關注意事項跟風險控管事項的這個依據好那最後合建契約協議的輔導小組這一個可以來成立嗎\n包括就是我們會如果這個內容出來我們一樣會交給地方政府你會不會明確的規範請他們有這樣的一個小組對對應該這麼說啦就是我們目前的預算來講是用輔導團跟專案辦公室的形式那未來我們就再來跟在後面的委託裡面呢就會請他們把這些要輔導這個這個協議合建的部分一併都納進來\n好謝謝那接著本席要接著問請教部長現在我們整個耐震弱成補強的這樣的一個推動成效好像\n不是很好報告因為其實我們每年都有編然後再來就是你一年也沒編多少錢我們一年有大概一億多一億多你看一年只可以補助幾戶你自己說應該這麼說我跟委員報告因為其實耐震補強的過程就會從出產品開始目前來講有一些民眾是不太願意是因為他們很擔心列出來的時候狀況沒有很好\n所以往往都是第一步所以他沒辦法他會影響他的房價所以他不太願意第一步跨出第一步但是因為從921之後然後陸續一些大地震我們都知道說我們事先的補強會有助於未來就是說預防災害的發生那如果你一年一億多我算了一下大概幾十戶\n一年大概是五到七件一年大概是五到七件你看全國一個縣是分不到一件所以這個我覺得很值得檢討因為我們有感覺到你在都會區或非都會區應該是有它的差異像我們部長當過副市長\n這光是高雄市區跟以前的高雄縣它就不一樣還有像我們其他非六都的縣市那其實有這種資訊落差的問題所謂資訊落差就是可能有些民眾他不知道\n其实以一般非都会区它也没有什么会影响它地价你这个可能还是都市思维所以这个部分我们是希望你这样一亿多真的太少好像只是点缀式的没有真的要做那这一块其实也是民众的权益民众的权益健全我们整个都市的发展我们都应该要兼顾所以这个部分应该要来加强吧\n這根文報告啦 其實我們大概每年都有去各縣市做推廣各縣市做推廣那其實我們剛剛講的是一個沒有各縣市推廣 可是你一年只有幾間大概過去的經驗就去推廣大概民眾的反應是這樣啦因為尤其大概對於老舊的公寓大概都會有整合的問題因為要提到那一陣補強\n那其實大家都要共同出資啦因為不會政府不可能百分之百還是會有共同出資的問題但是就會就會出現有人願意出資有人不願意出資所以我們過去的輔導案件很多 整合的問題嘛對 也會出現整合的問題所以過去在這個案例當中\n公寓大廈的管理組織其實是非常重要他要能夠去溝通所有的住戶大家一起願意來做那這也是一個很重要的成敗關鍵所以過去曾經我們也高達一年要鞭屍幾億但是慢慢減少也是因為實際上就是因為你們落實不了\n所以一直減少應該是說在民眾這兩步要能跨得出去這樣會比較容易來進行所以好 那我們的宣導還有我們很多的溝通甚至我們的協助也很重要啊是譬如說我們有沒有考慮那種一站式的服務窗口讓各直轄市也好縣市政府\n我們應該就是說這個政策我們利益非常好剛剛署長講了本來一年可能十幾億甚至我們如果做得好幾十億我們就應該為民眾的這種耐政的弱成補強來加強那可是呢就實施的不好實施不好是因為什麼是因為我覺得有資訊的落差\n還有我們沒有確實去落實所以今天因為剛好有類似的議題所以本席也在這邊要特別的來強調部長加油一點可以嗎我們會來跟地方來加強第一個溝通第二個是宣傳把問題找出來然後我們應該要加強宣導然後地方政府他也應該要有一些這種服務的窗口要做好我想這我們後面會來加強宣導感謝\n謝謝徐馨\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.004 --> 00:08.686\n好謝謝主席本席有請劉部長劉部長有請劉委員好部長好本席就先就剛剛有關我們這個合建契約的問題直接再追問就是說我們在這個合建契約\n\n00:27.933 --> 00:56.673\n是否內政部有一些數據統計可以佐證就是說合建契約是否會因為行政審議的意見不一致導致履約過程中出現大量的訴訟爭端有沒有這種情況我請署長回應一下感謝啦因為合建契約它內容不會反映不一定會反映在杜庚的計畫書裡面它往往都是雙方私人合議的一些內容\n\n00:57.293 --> 01:17.633\n那最容易過去的經驗有沒有過去的經驗就是很容易因為因為資訊不對稱他不曉得都更的條例裡面有什麼樣的保障第二個呢過程當中有遇到政策或法令的修正導致雙方的權利義務會發生改變那這些就是一般在合建契約裡面最常出現的問題\n\n01:18.514 --> 01:41.102\n那內政部有沒有規劃建立那種合建契約的參考版本或資訊平台讓各類型契約有指引就是因為樣態太多種我們樣態太多種沒有辦法用範本的方式因為你就依據不同樣態開始來做跟委員報告因為第一個這是私人契約我們不曉得他們中間的協議內容因為協議內容甚至從\n\n01:45.503 --> 02:05.149\n單純的分屋分地道還要去賣我沒辦法建立參考版本有沒有諮詢平台所以我根本報告就是說過去我們跟地方政府討論像雙北他們就是去訂出所謂的注意事項那我們覺得注意事項是一個非常好的機制那本席的問題就是說那有沒有要請各縣市政府他可以有一些諮詢平台\n\n02:06.950 --> 02:22.719\n報告一下我們本來就有補助各縣市政府有相關的輔導團跟專案辦公室那你們的指導有沒有要他成立這個諮詢平台說明一下現在就是透過輔導團跟專案辦公室他們本身就可以做這些事情\n\n02:23.467 --> 02:39.965\n那現在只是說他們可以做但是他們有沒有做是一回事嗎其實都有都有在接受做這些那接著本席繼續問針對核建爭議較多的類型是否可以先行分類建議原則性的指導\n\n02:42.249 --> 02:58.330\n報告就是說我們現在就是跟地方政府討論雙北現在是用注意事項也就是說你在訂定這個合建契約的時候雙方要注意哪些內容那第二個呢我們現在還有在討論就是說另外叫做風險控管事項\n\n02:59.871 --> 03:27.864\n風險控管制也就把過去常發生的樣態你們在執行過程當中要注意哪些執行的風險那提醒雙方在這合約裡面都應該要去注意或建立一些制度那目前部內有沒有五年合建案件爭議類型的分類統計報告目前是沒有但是我們都是透過這個部分我想我剛剛的意思就是說我們透過在跟地方開會請他們把這一類的案件\n\n03:28.744 --> 03:44.496\n過去所發生的糾紛通通大家統整起來我們來進行做一些分類那也可以提供作為後面我們要訂定相關注意事項跟風險控管事項的這個依據好那最後合建契約協議的輔導小組這一個可以來成立嗎\n\n03:49.086 --> 03:57.488\n包括就是我們會如果這個內容出來我們一樣會交給地方政府你會不會明確的規範請他們有這樣的一個小組對對應該這麼說啦就是我們目前的預算來講是用輔導團跟專案辦公室的形式那未來我們就再來跟在後面的委託裡面呢就會請他們把這些要輔導這個這個協議合建的部分一併都納進來\n\n04:16.432 --> 04:26.921\n好謝謝那接著本席要接著問請教部長現在我們整個耐震弱成補強的這樣的一個推動成效好像\n\n04:27.697 --> 04:54.394\n不是很好報告因為其實我們每年都有編然後再來就是你一年也沒編多少錢我們一年有大概一億多一億多你看一年只可以補助幾戶你自己說應該這麼說我跟委員報告因為其實耐震補強的過程就會從出產品開始目前來講有一些民眾是不太願意是因為他們很擔心列出來的時候狀況沒有很好\n\n04:55.393 --> 05:18.016\n所以往往都是第一步所以他沒辦法他會影響他的房價所以他不太願意第一步跨出第一步但是因為從921之後然後陸續一些大地震我們都知道說我們事先的補強會有助於未來就是說預防災害的發生那如果你一年一億多我算了一下大概幾十戶\n\n05:22.312 --> 05:44.807\n一年大概是五到七件一年大概是五到七件你看全國一個縣是分不到一件所以這個我覺得很值得檢討因為我們有感覺到你在都會區或非都會區應該是有它的差異像我們部長當過副市長\n\n05:47.709 --> 06:03.366\n這光是高雄市區跟以前的高雄縣它就不一樣還有像我們其他非六都的縣市那其實有這種資訊落差的問題所謂資訊落差就是可能有些民眾他不知道\n\n06:04.207 --> 06:31.364\n其实以一般非都会区它也没有什么会影响它地价你这个可能还是都市思维所以这个部分我们是希望你这样一亿多真的太少好像只是点缀式的没有真的要做那这一块其实也是民众的权益民众的权益健全我们整个都市的发展我们都应该要兼顾所以这个部分应该要来加强吧\n\n06:32.069 --> 06:52.712\n這根文報告啦其實我們大概每年都有去各縣市做推廣各縣市做推廣那其實我們剛剛講的是一個沒有各縣市推廣可是你一年只有幾間大概過去的經驗就去推廣大概民眾的反應是這樣啦因為尤其大概對於老舊的公寓大概都會有整合的問題因為要提到那一陣補強\n\n06:53.803 --> 07:11.363\n那其實大家都要共同出資啦因為不會政府不可能百分之百還是會有共同出資的問題但是就會就會出現有人願意出資有人不願意出資所以我們過去的輔導案件很多整合的問題嘛對也會出現整合的問題所以過去在這個案例當中\n\n07:12.479 --> 07:28.781\n公寓大廈的管理組織其實是非常重要他要能夠去溝通所有的住戶大家一起願意來做那這也是一個很重要的成敗關鍵所以過去曾經我們也高達一年要鞭屍幾億但是慢慢減少也是因為實際上就是因為你們落實不了\n\n07:29.201 --> 07:47.571\n所以一直減少應該是說在民眾這兩步要能跨得出去這樣會比較容易來進行所以好那我們的宣導還有我們很多的溝通甚至我們的協助也很重要啊是譬如說我們有沒有考慮那種一站式的服務窗口讓各直轄市也好縣市政府\n\n07:48.251 --> 08:11.619\n我們應該就是說這個政策我們利益非常好剛剛署長講了本來一年可能十幾億甚至我們如果做得好幾十億我們就應該為民眾的這種耐政的弱成補強來加強那可是呢就實施的不好實施不好是因為什麼是因為我覺得有資訊的落差\n\n08:13.148 --> 08:38.961\n還有我們沒有確實去落實所以今天因為剛好有類似的議題所以本席也在這邊要特別的來強調部長加油一點可以嗎我們會來跟地方來加強第一個溝通第二個是宣傳把問題找出來然後我們應該要加強宣導然後地方政府他也應該要有一些這種服務的窗口要做好我想這我們後面會來加強宣導感謝\n\n08:41.861 --> 08:41.901\n謝謝徐馨\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.004,"end":8.686,"text":"好謝謝主席本席有請劉部長劉部長有請劉委員好部長好本席就先就剛剛有關我們這個合建契約的問題直接再追問就是說我們在這個合建契約"},{"start":27.933,"end":56.673,"text":"是否內政部有一些數據統計可以佐證就是說合建契約是否會因為行政審議的意見不一致導致履約過程中出現大量的訴訟爭端有沒有這種情況我請署長回應一下感謝啦因為合建契約它內容不會反映不一定會反映在杜庚的計畫書裡面它往往都是雙方私人合議的一些內容"},{"start":57.293,"end":77.633,"text":"那最容易過去的經驗有沒有過去的經驗就是很容易因為因為資訊不對稱他不曉得都更的條例裡面有什麼樣的保障第二個呢過程當中有遇到政策或法令的修正導致雙方的權利義務會發生改變那這些就是一般在合建契約裡面最常出現的問題"},{"start":78.514,"end":101.102,"text":"那內政部有沒有規劃建立那種合建契約的參考版本或資訊平台讓各類型契約有指引就是因為樣態太多種我們樣態太多種沒有辦法用範本的方式因為你就依據不同樣態開始來做跟委員報告因為第一個這是私人契約我們不曉得他們中間的協議內容因為協議內容甚至從"},{"start":105.503,"end":125.149,"text":"單純的分屋分地道還要去賣我沒辦法建立參考版本有沒有諮詢平台所以我根本報告就是說過去我們跟地方政府討論像雙北他們就是去訂出所謂的注意事項那我們覺得注意事項是一個非常好的機制那本席的問題就是說那有沒有要請各縣市政府他可以有一些諮詢平台"},{"start":126.95,"end":142.719,"text":"報告一下 我們本來就有補助各縣市政府有相關的輔導團跟專案辦公室那你們的指導有沒有要他成立這個諮詢平台說明一下現在就是透過輔導團跟專案辦公室他們本身就可以做這些事情"},{"start":143.467,"end":159.965,"text":"那現在只是說他們可以做但是他們有沒有做是一回事嗎其實都有 都有在接受做這些那接著本席繼續問針對核建爭議較多的類型是否可以先行分類建議原則性的指導"},{"start":162.249,"end":178.33,"text":"報告就是說我們現在就是跟地方政府討論雙北現在是用注意事項也就是說你在訂定這個合建契約的時候雙方要注意哪些內容那第二個呢我們現在還有在討論就是說另外叫做風險控管事項"},{"start":179.871,"end":207.864,"text":"風險控管制也就把過去常發生的樣態你們在執行過程當中要注意哪些執行的風險那提醒雙方在這合約裡面都應該要去注意或建立一些制度那目前部內有沒有五年合建案件爭議類型的分類統計報告目前是沒有但是我們都是透過這個部分我想我剛剛的意思就是說我們透過在跟地方開會請他們把這一類的案件"},{"start":208.744,"end":224.496,"text":"過去所發生的糾紛通通大家統整起來我們來進行做一些分類那也可以提供作為後面我們要訂定相關注意事項跟風險控管事項的這個依據好那最後合建契約協議的輔導小組這一個可以來成立嗎"},{"start":229.086,"end":237.488,"text":"包括就是我們會如果這個內容出來我們一樣會交給地方政府你會不會明確的規範請他們有這樣的一個小組對對應該這麼說啦就是我們目前的預算來講是用輔導團跟專案辦公室的形式那未來我們就再來跟在後面的委託裡面呢就會請他們把這些要輔導這個這個協議合建的部分一併都納進來"},{"start":256.432,"end":266.921,"text":"好謝謝那接著本席要接著問請教部長現在我們整個耐震弱成補強的這樣的一個推動成效好像"},{"start":267.697,"end":294.394,"text":"不是很好報告因為其實我們每年都有編然後再來就是你一年也沒編多少錢我們一年有大概一億多一億多你看一年只可以補助幾戶你自己說應該這麼說我跟委員報告因為其實耐震補強的過程就會從出產品開始目前來講有一些民眾是不太願意是因為他們很擔心列出來的時候狀況沒有很好"},{"start":295.393,"end":318.016,"text":"所以往往都是第一步所以他沒辦法他會影響他的房價所以他不太願意第一步跨出第一步但是因為從921之後然後陸續一些大地震我們都知道說我們事先的補強會有助於未來就是說預防災害的發生那如果你一年一億多我算了一下大概幾十戶"},{"start":322.312,"end":344.807,"text":"一年大概是五到七件一年大概是五到七件你看全國一個縣是分不到一件所以這個我覺得很值得檢討因為我們有感覺到你在都會區或非都會區應該是有它的差異像我們部長當過副市長"},{"start":347.709,"end":363.366,"text":"這光是高雄市區跟以前的高雄縣它就不一樣還有像我們其他非六都的縣市那其實有這種資訊落差的問題所謂資訊落差就是可能有些民眾他不知道"},{"start":364.207,"end":391.364,"text":"其实以一般非都会区它也没有什么会影响它地价你这个可能还是都市思维所以这个部分我们是希望你这样一亿多真的太少好像只是点缀式的没有真的要做那这一块其实也是民众的权益民众的权益健全我们整个都市的发展我们都应该要兼顾所以这个部分应该要来加强吧"},{"start":392.069,"end":412.712,"text":"這根文報告啦 其實我們大概每年都有去各縣市做推廣各縣市做推廣那其實我們剛剛講的是一個沒有各縣市推廣 可是你一年只有幾間大概過去的經驗就去推廣大概民眾的反應是這樣啦因為尤其大概對於老舊的公寓大概都會有整合的問題因為要提到那一陣補強"},{"start":413.803,"end":431.363,"text":"那其實大家都要共同出資啦因為不會政府不可能百分之百還是會有共同出資的問題但是就會就會出現有人願意出資有人不願意出資所以我們過去的輔導案件很多 整合的問題嘛對 也會出現整合的問題所以過去在這個案例當中"},{"start":432.479,"end":448.781,"text":"公寓大廈的管理組織其實是非常重要他要能夠去溝通所有的住戶大家一起願意來做那這也是一個很重要的成敗關鍵所以過去曾經我們也高達一年要鞭屍幾億但是慢慢減少也是因為實際上就是因為你們落實不了"},{"start":449.201,"end":467.571,"text":"所以一直減少應該是說在民眾這兩步要能跨得出去這樣會比較容易來進行所以好 那我們的宣導還有我們很多的溝通甚至我們的協助也很重要啊是譬如說我們有沒有考慮那種一站式的服務窗口讓各直轄市也好縣市政府"},{"start":468.251,"end":491.619,"text":"我們應該就是說這個政策我們利益非常好剛剛署長講了本來一年可能十幾億甚至我們如果做得好幾十億我們就應該為民眾的這種耐政的弱成補強來加強那可是呢就實施的不好實施不好是因為什麼是因為我覺得有資訊的落差"},{"start":493.148,"end":518.961,"text":"還有我們沒有確實去落實所以今天因為剛好有類似的議題所以本席也在這邊要特別的來強調部長加油一點可以嗎我們會來跟地方來加強第一個溝通第二個是宣傳把問題找出來然後我們應該要加強宣導然後地方政府他也應該要有一些這種服務的窗口要做好我想這我們後面會來加強宣導感謝"},{"start":521.861,"end":521.901,"text":"謝謝徐馨"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":486,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（10時47分）謝謝主席。本席有請劉部長。"],["主席：劉部長有請。"],["劉部長世芳：徐委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：部長好。本席先就剛剛有關合建契約的問題直接再追問，在合建契約的部分，內政部是否有一些數據統計可以佐證，合建契約是否會因為行政審議的意見不一致，導致履約過程中出現大量的訴訟爭端，有沒有這種情況？"],["劉部長世芳：我請署長回答。"],["吳署長欣修：因為合建契約的內容不一定會反映在都更的計畫書裡面，它往往都是雙方私人合意的一些內容，最容易……"],["徐委員欣瑩：有沒有過去的經驗或相關數據？"],["吳署長欣修：過去經驗就是很容易因為資訊不對稱，就是他不曉得都更條例裡面有什麼樣的保障。第二個，過程當中有遇到政策或法令的修正，導致雙方的權利義務會發生改變，這些就是一般在合建契約裡面最常出現的問題。"],["徐委員欣瑩：內政部有沒有規劃建立合建契約的參考版本或是諮詢平臺，讓各類型契約有指引？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，就是因為樣態太多種，沒有辦法用範本的方式，因為合建……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你就依據不同樣態開始來做啊！沒有辦法？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，因為第一個，這是私人契約，我們不曉得他們中間的協議內容，因為協議內容，甚至從單純的分屋、分地到還要去賣……"],["徐委員欣瑩：如果沒辦法建立參考版本，有沒有諮詢平臺？"],["吳署長欣修：所以我跟委員報告，過去我們跟地方政府討論的時候，像雙北就是去訂注意事項，我們覺得注意事項是一個非常好的機制……"],["徐委員欣瑩：本席的問題是，有沒有要請各縣市政府來提供一些諮詢平臺，或是你們這裡有沒有辦法怎麼樣來進行？"],["吳署長欣修：我們本來就有補助各縣市政府有相關的輔導團跟專案辦公室，其實這就是提供諮詢……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你們的指導有沒有要他建立這個諮詢平臺？"],["吳署長欣修：說明一下，現在就是透過輔導團跟專案辦公室，他們本身就可以做這件事情，現在只是說……"],["徐委員欣瑩：他們可以做，但是他們有沒有做是一回事。"],["吳署長欣修：其實都有，他們都有接受做這件事。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，本席接著繼續問，針對合建爭議較多的類型，是否可以先行分類建立原則性的指導？"],["吳署長欣修：我們跟地方政府討論過，雙北現在是用注意事項，也就是說，你在訂定合建契約的時候，雙方要注意哪些內容。第二個，我們現在還有在討論的是風險控管事項，也就是把過去常發生的樣態，你們在執行過程當中要注意哪些執行的風險，提醒雙方在合約裡面都應該要去注意或建立一些制度。"],["徐委員欣瑩：目前部內有沒有5年合建案件爭議類型的分類統計報告？"],["吳署長欣修：目前是沒有，但是我們都是透過……"],["徐委員欣瑩：可以提供嗎？可以去著手……"],["吳署長欣修：關於這個部分，我剛剛的意思就是，我們透過再跟地方開會，請他們把這一類案件過去所發生的糾紛統整起來，我們來做一些分類，也可以提供作為後面我們要訂定相關注意事項跟風險控管事項的依據。"],["徐委員欣瑩：最後，可以成立合建契約協議的輔導小組嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：如果這個內容出來，我們一樣會交給地方政府，他們有相關的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你會不會明確的規範，請他們成立一個這樣的小組？"],["吳署長欣修：應該這麼說，以我們目前的預算來講，是用輔導團跟專案辦公室的形式，而未來我們在後面的委託裡面，就會請他們把要輔導協議合建的部分一併都納進來。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，謝謝。本席要接著請教部長，現在我們耐震弱層補強的推動成效好像不是很好？"],["吳署長欣修：其實我們每年都有編……"],["徐委員欣瑩：我先講，一個是成效，再來就是你一年也沒編多少錢嘛？"],["吳署長欣修：我們一年有大概一億多。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你看一億多一年只可以補助幾戶？你自己說。"],["吳署長欣修：應該這麼說，我跟委員報告，其實耐震補強的過程就會從初詳評開始，目前有些民眾會不太願意，是因為他們很擔心列出來的時候狀況沒有很好，所以往往都是第一步……"],["徐委員欣瑩：狀況沒有很好，所以呢？所以他沒辦法……"],["吳署長欣修：這會影響他的房價，所以他不太願意跨出第一步。"],["徐委員欣瑩：但是從921以及陸續一些大地震以後，我們都知道事先補強有助於未來預防災害的發生，如果你一年一億多，我算了一下，大概幾十戶……"],["劉部長世芳：沒有那麼少。"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有那麼少嗎？部長說沒有那麼少。"],["吳署長欣修：一年大概是5到7件啦！"],["徐委員欣瑩：對啊！你看全國一個縣市分不到一件。"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以這個我覺得很值得檢討，因為我們有感覺到在都會區或在非都會區應該有它的差異，像我們部長當過副市長，光是高雄市區跟以前的高雄縣就不一樣，還有像其他非六都的縣市，其實有這種資訊落差的問題，所謂資訊落差就是可能有些民眾不知道，以一般非都會區也沒有什麼會影響它的地價，你講的可能還是都市思維，所以這個部分，這樣一億多真的太少……"],["吳署長欣修：我了解。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好像只是點綴式的，沒有真的要做，這一塊其實也是民眾的權益啊！"],["吳署長欣修：了解。"],["徐委員欣瑩：民眾的權益、健全整個都市的發展，我們都應該要兼顧，所以這個部分應該要來加強吧！"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，我們每年都有去各縣市推廣，其實我們剛剛講的是一個……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你們有去各縣市推廣，可是一年就只有幾件。"],["吳署長欣修：我說明一下，過去的經驗就是去推廣，民眾的反映是這樣，尤其是對於老舊的公寓，大概都會有整合的問題，因為要提到耐震補強，其實大家就要共同出資，政府不可能百分之百負擔，還是會有共同出資的問題，但是就會出現有人願意出資、有人不願意出資。我們過去的輔導案件很多……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以是整合的問題嘛。"],["吳署長欣修：對，也會出現整合的問題。過去在案例當中，公寓大廈的管理組織其實非常重要，它要能夠去溝通所有的住戶，大家願意一起來做，這也是一個很重要的成敗關鍵我們過去也曾經一年編高達十幾億，但是慢慢減少，也是因為實際上的案件數……"],["徐委員欣瑩：就是因為你們落實不了，所以一直減少、一直減少。"],["吳署長欣修：應該是說民眾這兩步要能跨得出去，這樣會比較容易執行。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你們的宣導，還有你們很多的溝通，甚至你們的協助也很重要啊！譬如說，你們有沒有考慮一站式服務窗口，讓各直轄市、縣市政府也好，你們應該……這個政策立意非常好，剛剛署長講了，本來一年可能十幾億，甚至如果做得好是幾十億，我們就應該為民眾的耐震弱層補強來加強，可是實施的不好，實施的不好是因為我覺得有資訊的落差，還有我們沒有確實去落實。今天因為剛好有類似的議題，所以本席也要在這邊特別強調，部長加油一點，可以嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：我們會跟地方加強，第一個是溝通，第二個是宣傳。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對！把問題找出來，然後我們應該要加強宣導。"],["吳署長欣修：去宣傳，是！"],["徐委員欣瑩：地方政府也應該有一些服務的窗口要做好。"],["吳署長欣修：是，我們後面會加強宣導，感謝。"],["徐委員欣瑩：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝徐欣瑩委員。","報告委員會，我們在林俊憲委員質詢完後，休息5分鐘。","下一位請鄭正鈐委員質詢，鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","下一位我們請林俊憲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":46,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-18","speakers":["牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","麥玉珍","許宇甄","王美惠","黃捷","李柏毅","徐欣瑩","林俊憲","徐富癸","張雅琳","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","高金素梅","邱鎮軍","丁學忠"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-08"],"gazette_id":"1144701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、國家住宅及都市更新中心董事長就「都市更新與危老重建之執行成效及未\n來展望」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具「都市更新條例增訂第四十\n四條之一條文草案」案；三、審查委員賴惠員等23人擬具「都市危險及老舊建築物加速重建條例\n第三條及第十一條條文修正草案」案【第一案至第三案綜合詢答並處理法律提案】","agenda_id":"1144701_00001"}}}