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\"解\", \"start\": 70.826, \"end\": 71.007, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 71.007, \"end\": 71.167, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 71.167, \"end\": 71.347, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 71.347, \"end\": 71.707, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 71.707, \"end\": 71.727, \"score\": 0.985}]}, {\"start\": 72.888, \"end\": 99.559, \"text\": \"調查應該是逐步的希望說我們可以達到10%嘛那現在針對於這些掉下來的我們沒有去了解原因是什麼報告因為這一個10%這一個的確當時的定義是希望台灣的這個都市計畫區的公共設施品質尤其是公園綠地方面能夠逐步的成長那事實上在但真的在修法之後回過頭去檢視才發現既有的都市計畫區幾乎都不太可能\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 72.888, \"end\": 73.228, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 73.228, \"end\": 73.348, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"逐\", \"start\": 73.348, \"end\": 73.528, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"步\", \"start\": 73.528, \"end\": 73.688, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 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0.922}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 348.667, \"end\": 348.747, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 348.747, \"end\": 348.807, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"雅\", \"start\": 348.807, \"end\": 348.847, \"score\": 0.496}, {\"word\": \"玲\", \"start\": 348.847, \"end\": 348.988, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 348.988, \"end\": 349.008, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,169 --> 00:00:26,332\n謝謝主席那麼有請署長吳署長有請部長可以先休息部長先休息一下好謝謝署長那主要就是說因為根據都市計畫法第45條裡面它一條規定叫做公園體育場所綠地兒童遊戲場等等因依計畫人口密度及自然環境作為系統之部件出具有特殊情形外其佔有地面積\n\n2\n00:00:27,994 --> 00:00:47,485\n总面积不得少于全部计划的面积10%这是目前我们的都市计划法有一这样子的规定但是我调阅了相关国土署的一些统计资料从110年到112年基本上最高的只有澎湖县达到接近10%就是9.6%其他都是低于的\n\n3\n00:00:48,946 --> 00:01:11,727\n第二個就是高雄市有到8.7那許多縣市大概是持平或是維持逐步微微的上漲但是有三個縣市第一個就是嘉義縣它從3.3到現在已經只剩2.9那嘉義市也是那其中彰化縣是從6降到2.4%那我想了解因為我們做這些\n\n4\n00:01:12,888 --> 00:01:39,559\n調查應該是逐步的希望說我們可以達到10%嘛那現在針對於這些掉下來的我們沒有去了解原因是什麼報告因為這一個10%這一個的確當時的定義是希望台灣的這個都市計畫區的公共設施品質尤其是公園綠地方面能夠逐步的成長那事實上在但真的在修法之後回過頭去檢視才發現既有的都市計畫區幾乎都不太可能\n\n5\n00:01:40,299 --> 00:02:02,374\n那後來有些為了要補足這樣一個面積在規劃的過程當中去大肆做了很多的補正補強去規劃但是事實上就面對了它化了以後又要面臨徵收的問題那所以在長期間這樣二三十年下來也發現確實是難以執行那所以後來在相關的公設保留地的策略裡面呢\n\n6\n00:02:02,854 --> 00:02:28,392\n去允許他做一些檢討所以他做一些檢討就如果確實難以執行的部分可能必須要檢討去取消那所以才會有這樣的一個政策的循環但是另外一個就是說大家對於可以取得的這樣的一個項目裡面就透過去加強做建設來希望來補足對這一個都市計畫區內民眾的一個實際需要那其他的部分就透過比較大型的開放空間的設計\n\n7\n00:02:30,052 --> 00:02:55,301\n來去做要求也就是說你有大的建案那我就鼓勵你去做留設開放空間出來來另外一種類型的去補足公園綠地的一個不足是這樣子的概念但是我想了解就是說最主要是我們今天為什麼要公園綠地或是兒童遊戲場的空間最主要是提升生活品質嘛對不對就是世界的一些要求嘛但是我想針對的是彰化縣它從6它原本是6可是它降到2.4%\n\n8\n00:02:57,163 --> 00:03:18,580\n這或許是一個統計上的一個落差啦因為我們不太可能讓他減那麼多這部分是不是容我們回去再調查清楚再給我們一個簡單的說明好不好那第二個部分就是說因為剛剛有講到說現在要達到這10%非常難但是你們有透過一些方法怎樣去爭取一些開放空間那我想了解一下更精確的我們如果針對一些重劃區我們有一些重劃區的案子\n\n9\n00:03:18,940 --> 00:03:44,527\n是不是可以從這裡面也去來要求呢有沒有一些更積極的作為可以去要求他們去開設出這樣子的綠地特別是兒童遊戲場的部分跟委員報告的確因為委員這樣的要求我覺得事實上是可行的只是說過去在相關重化的公共建設的項目裡面是公園綠地通常都是先以綠地化的方式配上少部分的油氣設施去執行\n\n10\n00:03:46,047 --> 00:04:04,125\n他當時擔心的就是說我做了以後萬一五年內人口不夠多我很可能又要面臨設施更新所以他在早期的這個重劃工程的項目裡面並不會特別去做那通常都是透過事後的追加也就是透過這個重劃工程的盈餘再去做補足這樣的設施\n\n11\n00:04:05,386 --> 00:04:32,597\n那有關這一點我想我們可以我再跟地政司我再跟地政司去討論看看是不是請他來要求各地方政府在執行公園重劃區的公園綠地的工程項目裡面主動把兒童遊戲設施把他納進去那這樣他在第一時間就可以執行不然這就會變成是說你等到都已經蓋好了之後你這一塊又變成是你要到你只能在那個很有限的面積裡面去做對又到時候又變成大家互爭\n\n12\n00:04:33,277 --> 00:04:50,806\n空間互相爭空間這個部分大概我們什麼時候可以來追相關的進度呢我想我來跟地政司討論一下因為地政司他必須要找各縣市政府去討論把它納到項目裡面去好那我們一個月之後我們再來跟您了解一下進度好嗎好那謝謝那我們先找一下住都中心抱歉剩下24秒很快請花董事長\n\n13\n00:04:54,127 --> 00:05:18,050\n好謝謝喔董事長好就是說因為住宿中心就是管我們很多的社宅的建制嘛那但是因為我之前看了一些社宅的建案裡面通常兒少休息設施是比較少的比較說是一些可能是一些開放空間啦有一些步道那這個部分我們是不是也可以在相關的社宅把兒少遊戲空間這東西把它納入呢主動納入這個部分當然就我們的\n\n14\n00:05:19,211 --> 00:05:33,397\n開放的空間的部分我們會做一些整理規劃那委員今天提起來我們回去就來規劃檢討好那最後一點時間就是說我希望這次可以來把它納入因為既然社宅就是會很多年輕家庭那也有可能是長照的設施大家會需要一些休憩的\n\n15\n00:05:34,437 --> 00:05:49,008\n的設備這個部分應該要主動那如果同時呢我也希望在做這些相關規劃的時候我們可以找一些兒少的專家團體一起來看這些設施是不是有符合那邊未來的一些需求好不好OK好謝謝先有人知道好謝謝我們張雅玲委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n169\t26332\t謝謝主席 那麼有請 署長吳署長有請 部長可以先休息部長先休息一下好 謝謝署長那主要就是說因為根據都市計畫法第45條裡面它一條規定叫做公園體育場所綠地兒童遊戲場等等因依計畫人口密度及自然環境作為系統之部件出具有特殊情形外其佔有地面積\n27994\t47485\t总面积不得少于全部计划的面积10%这是目前我们的都市计划法有一这样子的规定但是我调阅了相关国土署的一些统计资料从110年到112年基本上最高的只有澎湖县达到接近10%就是9.6%其他都是低于的\n48946\t71727\t第二個就是高雄市有到8.7那許多縣市大概是持平或是維持逐步微微的上漲但是有三個縣市第一個就是嘉義縣它從3.3到現在已經只剩2.9那嘉義市也是那其中彰化縣是從6降到2.4%那我想了解因為我們做這些\n72888\t99559\t調查應該是逐步的希望說我們可以達到10%嘛那現在針對於這些掉下來的我們沒有去了解原因是什麼報告因為這一個10%這一個的確當時的定義是希望台灣的這個都市計畫區的公共設施品質尤其是公園綠地方面能夠逐步的成長那事實上在但真的在修法之後回過頭去檢視才發現既有的都市計畫區幾乎都不太可能\n100299\t122374\t那後來有些為了要補足這樣一個面積在規劃的過程當中去大肆做了很多的補正補強去規劃但是事實上就面對了它化了以後又要面臨徵收的問題那所以在長期間這樣二三十年下來也發現確實是難以執行那所以後來在相關的公設保留地的策略裡面呢\n122854\t148392\t去允許他做一些檢討所以他做一些檢討就如果確實難以執行的部分可能必須要檢討去取消那所以才會有這樣的一個政策的循環但是另外一個就是說大家對於可以取得的這樣的一個項目裡面就透過去加強做建設來希望來補足對這一個都市計畫區內民眾的一個實際需要那其他的部分就透過比較大型的開放空間的設計\n150052\t175301\t來去做要求也就是說你有大的建案那我就鼓勵你去做留設開放空間出來來另外一種類型的去補足公園綠地的一個不足是這樣子的概念但是我想了解就是說最主要是我們今天為什麼要公園綠地或是兒童遊戲場的空間最主要是提升生活品質嘛對不對就是世界的一些要求嘛但是我想針對的是彰化縣它從6它原本是6可是它降到2.4%\n177163\t198580\t這或許是一個統計上的一個落差啦因為我們不太可能讓他減那麼多這部分是不是容我們回去再調查清楚再給我們一個簡單的說明好不好那第二個部分就是說因為剛剛有講到說現在要達到這10%非常難但是你們有透過一些方法怎樣去爭取一些開放空間那我想了解一下更精確的我們如果針對一些重劃區我們有一些重劃區的案子\n198940\t224527\t是不是可以從這裡面也去來要求呢有沒有一些更積極的作為可以去要求他們去開設出這樣子的綠地特別是兒童遊戲場的部分跟委員報告的確因為委員這樣的要求我覺得事實上是可行的只是說過去在相關重化的公共建設的項目裡面是公園綠地通常都是先以綠地化的方式配上少部分的油氣設施去執行\n226047\t244125\t他當時擔心的就是說我做了以後萬一五年內人口不夠多我很可能又要面臨設施更新所以他在早期的這個重劃工程的項目裡面並不會特別去做那通常都是透過事後的追加也就是透過這個重劃工程的盈餘再去做補足這樣的設施\n245386\t272597\t那有關這一點我想我們可以我再跟地政司我再跟地政司去討論看看是不是請他來要求各地方政府在執行公園重劃區的公園綠地的工程項目裡面主動把兒童遊戲設施把他納進去那這樣他在第一時間就可以執行不然這就會變成是說你等到都已經蓋好了之後你這一塊又變成是你要到你只能在那個很有限的面積裡面去做對又到時候又變成大家互爭\n273277\t290806\t空間互相爭空間這個部分大概我們什麼時候可以來追相關的進度呢我想我來跟地政司討論一下因為地政司他必須要找各縣市政府去討論把它納到項目裡面去好那我們一個月之後我們再來跟您了解一下進度好嗎好那謝謝那我們先找一下住都中心抱歉剩下24秒很快請花董事長\n294127\t318050\t好 謝謝喔 董事長好 就是說因為住宿中心就是管我們很多的社宅的建制嘛那但是因為我之前看了一些社宅的建案裡面通常兒少休息設施是比較少的 比較說是一些可能是一些開放空間啦 有一些步道那這個部分我們是不是也可以在相關的社宅把兒少遊戲空間這東西把它納入呢 主動納入這個部分當然就我們的\n319211\t333397\t開放的空間的部分我們會做一些整理規劃那委員今天提起來我們回去就來規劃檢討好那最後一點時間就是說我希望這次可以來把它納入因為既然社宅就是會很多年輕家庭那也有可能是長照的設施大家會需要一些休憩的\n334437\t349008\t的設備這個部分應該要主動那如果同時呢我也希望在做這些相關規劃的時候我們可以找一些兒少的專家團體一起來看這些設施是不是有符合那邊未來的一些需求好不好OK好謝謝先有人知道好謝謝我們張雅玲委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席 那麼有請 署長吳署長有請 部長可以先休息部長先休息一下好 謝謝署長那主要就是說因為根據都市計畫法第45條裡面它一條規定叫做公園體育場所綠地兒童遊戲場等等因依計畫人口密度及自然環境作為系統之部件出具有特殊情形外其佔有地面積\n总面积不得少于全部计划的面积10%这是目前我们的都市计划法有一这样子的规定但是我调阅了相关国土署的一些统计资料从110年到112年基本上最高的只有澎湖县达到接近10%就是9.6%其他都是低于的\n第二個就是高雄市有到8.7那許多縣市大概是持平或是維持逐步微微的上漲但是有三個縣市第一個就是嘉義縣它從3.3到現在已經只剩2.9那嘉義市也是那其中彰化縣是從6降到2.4%那我想了解因為我們做這些\n調查應該是逐步的希望說我們可以達到10%嘛那現在針對於這些掉下來的我們沒有去了解原因是什麼報告因為這一個10%這一個的確當時的定義是希望台灣的這個都市計畫區的公共設施品質尤其是公園綠地方面能夠逐步的成長那事實上在但真的在修法之後回過頭去檢視才發現既有的都市計畫區幾乎都不太可能\n那後來有些為了要補足這樣一個面積在規劃的過程當中去大肆做了很多的補正補強去規劃但是事實上就面對了它化了以後又要面臨徵收的問題那所以在長期間這樣二三十年下來也發現確實是難以執行那所以後來在相關的公設保留地的策略裡面呢\n去允許他做一些檢討所以他做一些檢討就如果確實難以執行的部分可能必須要檢討去取消那所以才會有這樣的一個政策的循環但是另外一個就是說大家對於可以取得的這樣的一個項目裡面就透過去加強做建設來希望來補足對這一個都市計畫區內民眾的一個實際需要那其他的部分就透過比較大型的開放空間的設計\n來去做要求也就是說你有大的建案那我就鼓勵你去做留設開放空間出來來另外一種類型的去補足公園綠地的一個不足是這樣子的概念但是我想了解就是說最主要是我們今天為什麼要公園綠地或是兒童遊戲場的空間最主要是提升生活品質嘛對不對就是世界的一些要求嘛但是我想針對的是彰化縣它從6它原本是6可是它降到2.4%\n這或許是一個統計上的一個落差啦因為我們不太可能讓他減那麼多這部分是不是容我們回去再調查清楚再給我們一個簡單的說明好不好那第二個部分就是說因為剛剛有講到說現在要達到這10%非常難但是你們有透過一些方法怎樣去爭取一些開放空間那我想了解一下更精確的我們如果針對一些重劃區我們有一些重劃區的案子\n是不是可以從這裡面也去來要求呢有沒有一些更積極的作為可以去要求他們去開設出這樣子的綠地特別是兒童遊戲場的部分跟委員報告的確因為委員這樣的要求我覺得事實上是可行的只是說過去在相關重化的公共建設的項目裡面是公園綠地通常都是先以綠地化的方式配上少部分的油氣設施去執行\n他當時擔心的就是說我做了以後萬一五年內人口不夠多我很可能又要面臨設施更新所以他在早期的這個重劃工程的項目裡面並不會特別去做那通常都是透過事後的追加也就是透過這個重劃工程的盈餘再去做補足這樣的設施\n那有關這一點我想我們可以我再跟地政司我再跟地政司去討論看看是不是請他來要求各地方政府在執行公園重劃區的公園綠地的工程項目裡面主動把兒童遊戲設施把他納進去那這樣他在第一時間就可以執行不然這就會變成是說你等到都已經蓋好了之後你這一塊又變成是你要到你只能在那個很有限的面積裡面去做對又到時候又變成大家互爭\n空間互相爭空間這個部分大概我們什麼時候可以來追相關的進度呢我想我來跟地政司討論一下因為地政司他必須要找各縣市政府去討論把它納到項目裡面去好那我們一個月之後我們再來跟您了解一下進度好嗎好那謝謝那我們先找一下住都中心抱歉剩下24秒很快請花董事長\n好 謝謝喔 董事長好 就是說因為住宿中心就是管我們很多的社宅的建制嘛那但是因為我之前看了一些社宅的建案裡面通常兒少休息設施是比較少的 比較說是一些可能是一些開放空間啦 有一些步道那這個部分我們是不是也可以在相關的社宅把兒少遊戲空間這東西把它納入呢 主動納入這個部分當然就我們的\n開放的空間的部分我們會做一些整理規劃那委員今天提起來我們回去就來規劃檢討好那最後一點時間就是說我希望這次可以來把它納入因為既然社宅就是會很多年輕家庭那也有可能是長照的設施大家會需要一些休憩的\n的設備這個部分應該要主動那如果同時呢我也希望在做這些相關規劃的時候我們可以找一些兒少的專家團體一起來看這些設施是不是有符合那邊未來的一些需求好不好OK好謝謝先有人知道好謝謝我們張雅玲委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.169 --> 00:26.332\n謝謝主席那麼有請署長吳署長有請部長可以先休息部長先休息一下好謝謝署長那主要就是說因為根據都市計畫法第45條裡面它一條規定叫做公園體育場所綠地兒童遊戲場等等因依計畫人口密度及自然環境作為系統之部件出具有特殊情形外其佔有地面積\n\n00:27.994 --> 00:47.485\n总面积不得少于全部计划的面积10%这是目前我们的都市计划法有一这样子的规定但是我调阅了相关国土署的一些统计资料从110年到112年基本上最高的只有澎湖县达到接近10%就是9.6%其他都是低于的\n\n00:48.946 --> 01:11.727\n第二個就是高雄市有到8.7那許多縣市大概是持平或是維持逐步微微的上漲但是有三個縣市第一個就是嘉義縣它從3.3到現在已經只剩2.9那嘉義市也是那其中彰化縣是從6降到2.4%那我想了解因為我們做這些\n\n01:12.888 --> 01:39.559\n調查應該是逐步的希望說我們可以達到10%嘛那現在針對於這些掉下來的我們沒有去了解原因是什麼報告因為這一個10%這一個的確當時的定義是希望台灣的這個都市計畫區的公共設施品質尤其是公園綠地方面能夠逐步的成長那事實上在但真的在修法之後回過頭去檢視才發現既有的都市計畫區幾乎都不太可能\n\n01:40.299 --> 02:02.374\n那後來有些為了要補足這樣一個面積在規劃的過程當中去大肆做了很多的補正補強去規劃但是事實上就面對了它化了以後又要面臨徵收的問題那所以在長期間這樣二三十年下來也發現確實是難以執行那所以後來在相關的公設保留地的策略裡面呢\n\n02:02.854 --> 02:28.392\n去允許他做一些檢討所以他做一些檢討就如果確實難以執行的部分可能必須要檢討去取消那所以才會有這樣的一個政策的循環但是另外一個就是說大家對於可以取得的這樣的一個項目裡面就透過去加強做建設來希望來補足對這一個都市計畫區內民眾的一個實際需要那其他的部分就透過比較大型的開放空間的設計\n\n02:30.052 --> 02:55.301\n來去做要求也就是說你有大的建案那我就鼓勵你去做留設開放空間出來來另外一種類型的去補足公園綠地的一個不足是這樣子的概念但是我想了解就是說最主要是我們今天為什麼要公園綠地或是兒童遊戲場的空間最主要是提升生活品質嘛對不對就是世界的一些要求嘛但是我想針對的是彰化縣它從6它原本是6可是它降到2.4%\n\n02:57.163 --> 03:18.580\n這或許是一個統計上的一個落差啦因為我們不太可能讓他減那麼多這部分是不是容我們回去再調查清楚再給我們一個簡單的說明好不好那第二個部分就是說因為剛剛有講到說現在要達到這10%非常難但是你們有透過一些方法怎樣去爭取一些開放空間那我想了解一下更精確的我們如果針對一些重劃區我們有一些重劃區的案子\n\n03:18.940 --> 03:44.527\n是不是可以從這裡面也去來要求呢有沒有一些更積極的作為可以去要求他們去開設出這樣子的綠地特別是兒童遊戲場的部分跟委員報告的確因為委員這樣的要求我覺得事實上是可行的只是說過去在相關重化的公共建設的項目裡面是公園綠地通常都是先以綠地化的方式配上少部分的油氣設施去執行\n\n03:46.047 --> 04:04.125\n他當時擔心的就是說我做了以後萬一五年內人口不夠多我很可能又要面臨設施更新所以他在早期的這個重劃工程的項目裡面並不會特別去做那通常都是透過事後的追加也就是透過這個重劃工程的盈餘再去做補足這樣的設施\n\n04:05.386 --> 04:32.597\n那有關這一點我想我們可以我再跟地政司我再跟地政司去討論看看是不是請他來要求各地方政府在執行公園重劃區的公園綠地的工程項目裡面主動把兒童遊戲設施把他納進去那這樣他在第一時間就可以執行不然這就會變成是說你等到都已經蓋好了之後你這一塊又變成是你要到你只能在那個很有限的面積裡面去做對又到時候又變成大家互爭\n\n04:33.277 --> 04:50.806\n空間互相爭空間這個部分大概我們什麼時候可以來追相關的進度呢我想我來跟地政司討論一下因為地政司他必須要找各縣市政府去討論把它納到項目裡面去好那我們一個月之後我們再來跟您了解一下進度好嗎好那謝謝那我們先找一下住都中心抱歉剩下24秒很快請花董事長\n\n04:54.127 --> 05:18.050\n好謝謝喔董事長好就是說因為住宿中心就是管我們很多的社宅的建制嘛那但是因為我之前看了一些社宅的建案裡面通常兒少休息設施是比較少的比較說是一些可能是一些開放空間啦有一些步道那這個部分我們是不是也可以在相關的社宅把兒少遊戲空間這東西把它納入呢主動納入這個部分當然就我們的\n\n05:19.211 --> 05:33.397\n開放的空間的部分我們會做一些整理規劃那委員今天提起來我們回去就來規劃檢討好那最後一點時間就是說我希望這次可以來把它納入因為既然社宅就是會很多年輕家庭那也有可能是長照的設施大家會需要一些休憩的\n\n05:34.437 --> 05:49.008\n的設備這個部分應該要主動那如果同時呢我也希望在做這些相關規劃的時候我們可以找一些兒少的專家團體一起來看這些設施是不是有符合那邊未來的一些需求好不好OK好謝謝先有人知道好謝謝我們張雅玲委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.169,"end":26.332,"text":"謝謝主席 那麼有請 署長吳署長有請 部長可以先休息部長先休息一下好 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謝謝喔 董事長好 就是說因為住宿中心就是管我們很多的社宅的建制嘛那但是因為我之前看了一些社宅的建案裡面通常兒少休息設施是比較少的 比較說是一些可能是一些開放空間啦 有一些步道那這個部分我們是不是也可以在相關的社宅把兒少遊戲空間這東西把它納入呢 主動納入這個部分當然就我們的"},{"start":319.211,"end":333.397,"text":"開放的空間的部分我們會做一些整理規劃那委員今天提起來我們回去就來規劃檢討好那最後一點時間就是說我希望這次可以來把它納入因為既然社宅就是會很多年輕家庭那也有可能是長照的設施大家會需要一些休憩的"},{"start":334.437,"end":349.008,"text":"的設備這個部分應該要主動那如果同時呢我也希望在做這些相關規劃的時候我們可以找一些兒少的專家團體一起來看這些設施是不是有符合那邊未來的一些需求好不好OK好謝謝先有人知道好謝謝我們張雅玲委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":639,"blocks":[["張委員雅琳：（11時17分）謝謝主席。有請署長。"],["主席：吳署長有請。"],["張委員雅琳：部長可以先休息一下。"],["吳署長欣修：委員好。"],["張委員雅琳：謝謝署長。根據都市計畫法第四十五條的規定，公園、體育場所、綠地、廣場及兒童遊樂場，應依計畫人口密度及自然環境，作有系統之布置，除具有特殊情形外，其占用土地總面積不得少於全部計畫面積10%。但是我調閱國土署相關的統計資料，從110年到112年，基本上最高的只有澎湖縣達到接近10%，也就是9.6%，其他都是低於的；第二高的是高雄市，有到8.7%，許多縣市大概是持平或是維持逐步微微的上漲。但是有三個縣市，第一個是嘉義縣，從3.3%到現在已經只剩2.9%，包括嘉義市也是；其中彰化縣是從6%降到2.4%。我想我們做這些調查應該是希望能夠逐步達到10%，針對這些比率掉下來的，你們有沒有去了解原因是什麼？"],["吳署長欣修：報告委員，針對10%的比率，的確當時的定義是希望臺灣都市計畫區的公共設施品質，尤其是公園、綠地能夠逐步成長，但是在修法之後，回過頭去檢視才發現既有的都市計畫區幾乎都不太可能，後來有些為了要補足這樣的面積，在規劃的過程當中大肆地做了很多的補強規劃，但是事實上劃了以後，又要面臨徵收的問題。長期間二、三十年下來，也發現確實是難以執行，所以後來在相關的公設保留地策略裡面，允許它做一些檢討，如果確實難以執行的部分，可能必須要檢討去取消，所以才會有這樣的政策循環。但是另外一點，大家對於可以取得的項目就加強做建設，希望補足都市計畫區內民眾的實際需要，其他部分就透過比較大型的開放空間的設計去做要求，也就是說，你有大的建案，我就鼓勵你留設開放空間出來，這是另外一種類型的補足公園綠地的不足。"],["張委員雅琳：但是我想要了解的是，今天為什麼要公園、綠地或是兒童遊戲場的空間？最主要是為了提升生活品質對不對？"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["張委員雅琳：這是世界的一些要求嘛！但是我想針對的是彰化縣原本是做到6%，可是現在卻降到2.4%……"],["吳署長欣修：這或許是統計上的落差，因為我們不太可能讓它減那麼多，這部分是不是容我們回去再調查清楚。"],["張委員雅琳：這個部分是不是可以詳細了解一下，然後再給我們一個簡單的說明好不好？"],["吳署長欣修：好。"],["張委員雅琳：第二個部分，因為剛剛有講到現在要達到10%非常難，但是你們有透過一些方法，設法爭取一些開放空間，我想了解一下更精確的部分，針對一些重劃區的案子，是不是可以從這裡面也來要求呢？有沒有一些更積極的作為可以要求他們開設這樣子的綠地，特別是兒童遊戲場的部分？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，關於委員這樣的要求，我覺得事實上是可行的，只是過去在相關重劃的公共建設項目裡面，公園、綠地通常都是先以綠地化的方式配上少部分的遊憩設施去執行，當時擔心的是做了以後，萬一5年內人口不夠多，很可能又要面臨設施更新，所以在早期重劃工程的項目裡面並不會特別去做，通常都是透過事後的追加，也就是透過重劃工程的盈餘再去補足這樣的設施。有關這一點，我想我們可以再跟地政司……"],["張委員雅琳：有沒有可能再更積極的……"],["吳署長欣修：我們會再跟地政司討論，看看是不是請他們來要求各地方政府，在執行重劃區公園、綠地的工程項目裡面，主動把兒童遊戲設施納進去，這樣他在第一時間就可以去執行。"],["張委員雅琳：對，不然就會變成等到都已經蓋好了之後，這一塊又變成只能在那個很有限的面積裡面去做。"],["吳署長欣修：對，到時候又變成大家互爭空間。"],["張委員雅琳：是，沒錯，所以這個部分我們大概什麼時候可以來追相關的進度？"],["吳署長欣修：關於委員的垂詢，我想我來跟地政司討論一下，因為地政司必須找各縣市政府討論把它納到項目裡面去。"],["張委員雅琳：好，那一個月之後我們再來跟您了解一下進度好嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：好。"],["張委員雅琳：謝謝。","接著我問一下住都中心，抱歉，剩下24秒。"],["主席：請花董事長。"],["花董事長敬群：委員好。"],["張委員雅琳：董事長好。因為住都中心就是管很多社宅的建置，但是我之前看了一些社宅的建案裡面，通常兒少休憩設施是比較少的，可能是一些開放空間或是有一些步道。針對這個部分，我們是不是也可以在相關的社宅把兒少遊戲空間主動納入呢？"],["花董事長敬群：跟委員報告，當然就開放空間的部分，我們會做一些整體規劃，委員今天提起來，我們回去就來規劃檢討。"],["張委員雅琳：最後一點時間，我希望這次可以把它納入，因為既然是社宅，就會有很多年輕家庭，也有可能是長照的設施，大家會需要一些休憩的設備，這個部分應該要主動納入。同時我也希望在做這些相關規劃的時候，我們可以找一些兒少的專家團體，一起來看這些設施是不是有符合那邊未來的需求好不好？"],["花董事長敬群：好，謝謝委員指導。"],["張委員雅琳：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張雅琳委員，剛剛委員詢答要求提供的相關資料，請部會會後提供。","下一位請吳琪銘委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":46,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-18","speakers":["牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","麥玉珍","許宇甄","王美惠","黃捷","李柏毅","徐欣瑩","林俊憲","徐富癸","張雅琳","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","高金素梅","邱鎮軍","丁學忠"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-08"],"gazette_id":"1144701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長、國家住宅及都市更新中心董事長就「都市更新與危老重建之執行成效及未\n來展望」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查委員牛煦庭等17人擬具「都市更新條例增訂第四十\n四條之一條文草案」案；三、審查委員賴惠員等23人擬具「都市危險及老舊建築物加速重建條例\n第三條及第十一條條文修正草案」案【第一案至第三案綜合詢答並處理法律提案】","agenda_id":"1144701_00001"}}}