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\"end\": 959.922, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 959.922, \"end\": 960.342, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 960.342, \"end\": 960.443, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 960.443, \"end\": 960.463, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 960.463, \"end\": 960.483, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 960.483, \"end\": 960.583, \"score\": 0.673}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 960.583, \"end\": 960.603, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,827 --> 00:00:13,110\n謝謝主席,有請部長還有署長\n\n2\n00:00:25,240 --> 00:00:53,648\n這個昨天齁中華民國養豬協會潘連週理事長在媒體上就這樣表示的齁說看完進口萊豬致敬14年相對大多數證明對進口豬肉沒有興趣只有加工廠商會給予成本採購所以不用太擔心這個進口內臟豬腳會影響到國內豬肉只要政府嚴格把關並追查豬肉動向但如果是肉品內臟還是加工品都必須要做到產地標示避免有魚目混豬的情況也保障國內豬籠的權益部長對潘理事長的說法有什麼看法現在就是這樣在做好現在就這樣做\n\n3\n00:00:54,528 --> 00:01:05,839\n但是潘理事長還有這段話的一個重點就是政府要嚴格把關並追查豬肉動向我們到底有沒有嚴格把關\n\n4\n00:01:07,219 --> 00:01:32,066\n因為他在表示一週內連續有三批萊豬進口不可能是包裝錯誤或是巧合畢竟所有的貨物進口都要經過檢驗、封櫃、然後報官那這一次一週就有兩次澳洲萊豬進來那代表澳洲端沒有確實檢驗這才是問題的所在所以目前台灣在邊境的把關萊豬抽驗已經過了這四年是不是開始有一些\n\n5\n00:01:33,493 --> 00:01:37,500\n怎麼說束縛懈怠不然怎麼會有這種事情發生\n\n6\n00:01:38,358 --> 00:01:40,880\n好應該不會了是不是我請署長好請署長\n\n7\n00:02:08,398 --> 00:02:26,231\n所以因此在過去一路以來我們看到他的風險並都沒有查到所以他的確是從以前逐批查到後來是降到2到10%的一個查查的比例那2到10%查查比例那我們目前看到雖然這次的檢出值是0.01到0.003ppm\n\n8\n00:02:29,253 --> 00:02:47,199\n是小於我們的0.01的標準值但是剛才在先前委員會裡面委員們有一些些特別提醒我們要我們增加的我們剛才也有承諾說我們會讓國人更為安心把叉叉的比例往上提升這邊也跟委員特別做建議目前讓署長講得完整\n\n9\n00:02:47,819 --> 00:03:03,125\n那如果是這個讓就是提高檢驗的這樣的一個量能嘛基本上應該要來嚇阻這些事情是應該是沒有多大的問題啦齁但是我現在用一個例子給你做參考齁那個時候你還沒有來當署長這家齁印度的Boss的香料與調味料\n\n10\n00:03:05,105 --> 00:03:23,336\n這個公司在去年6月18日查出紅膠色素產品有蘇丹隆4號12月17號就是去年又被查到這個紅膠色素檢測出蘇丹隆1、2、4三個號然後今年2月11號又有辣椒油素質被檢出蘇丹隆2號跟4號這是幾點\n\n11\n00:03:26,278 --> 00:03:50,074\n那去年2月27喔我們消息組的新聞稿寫得很清楚無論是邊境或後市場只要檢出蘇丹紅立即停止輸入查驗那簡單講就是說這家MOS公司在去年6月18被查驗後應該就立即停止輸入查驗為什麼它在12月還是在今年的2月11號都還可以持續進口\n\n12\n00:03:51,861 --> 00:04:00,019\n這家BOSS公司一直在挑戰台灣的邊境茶葉如果說真的他來一次疏忽又被禁來了誰要負責\n\n13\n00:04:01,811 --> 00:04:24,358\n這邊跟委員進一步報告這就是因為我們的邊境查驗的系統是智慧型的那它是不得檢出但是檢出了所以我們查驗比例不斷的挑高之後呢是百分之百它其實還沒到港口還沒有進入邊境我們的我們就知道這一家有進馬上就進去去做查查所以才有這個機會能夠這麼精準的把它再查到\n\n14\n00:04:24,958 --> 00:04:54,358\n那因為進口商在做這件事情的時候他其實是我們在小署的部分是沒有辦法特別但是我們會予以輔導那因為輔導部分也很困難不在於本署的一個業務的能夠支持但是我們在邊境那決戰在境外的這樣子的心一定是不會改變的以上所以基本上你的意思就是說我們還是有一些防治防備防防制的機制存在但是這好像是廠家就是要跟你賭\n\n15\n00:04:55,438 --> 00:05:20,476\n對不對他就是在被堵嘛對我們看到的情形是這樣的然後我們食藥署有這麼大的量能可以跟他對堵嗎我們跟委員報告我們的BorderProtectionIntelligence就是邊境的智慧茶茶的系統裡面對於這樣子的茶茶已經違規是不得檢出的它自然跳出來的就會變成百分之百只要這個廠家出來馬上就會是每一批\n\n16\n00:05:21,337 --> 00:05:44,892\n因為報關的相關資料裡面我們就可以抓得到所以在這邊特別跟委員報告說我們已經在做所謂的精準抽驗上面已經有量能這樣的提升對國人的安全的努力現在這樣的場景為什麼不把它列作是一個黑名單對它就是黑名單就是我們知道它是黑名單但是我們就會去你覺得它是黑名單它還可以持續的這樣持續的報關來挑戰來跟你賭\n\n17\n00:05:47,914 --> 00:06:12,252\n這在貿易的部分他們自由貿易的廠商的部分我覺得應該要有他們我覺得這應該要有個因應之道吧不能這個樣子嘛對不對你當然有相關的機制完備但是他還敢跟你賭那到底是我們有什麼調整的空間他連賭都不能賭就是他沒有提供安全足夠的這樣的品質保證的情況之下他都不需要賭了就是主角了啦\n\n18\n00:06:13,012 --> 00:06:34,398\n也不用浪費這麼多的人力甚至於還有要用更進步的科技來做專業主角我覺得這應該是可以討論的吧謝謝委員我想這個部分我們一定帶回去看怎麼進一步可能不是單單在衛福部事要署這邊我們能夠在跨部會裡面做一些些溝通協調看怎麼能夠去努力一個月好不好問一下這個邊境一個月應該可以吧\n\n19\n00:06:40,529 --> 00:07:02,815\n因為我們經生的問題我們經不起任何一次的疏忽嘛然後這廠家就是有就是慣性嘛對報告委員這邊其實剛才提到這家廠商真的是在今年1月24號之後我們有停止其輸入的查驗的是已經有這樣子的阻絕的動作今年的1月嘛有停止輸入的查驗嘛對不對是但是你在關稅的時候是今年的2月11號啊對所以\n\n20\n00:07:04,275 --> 00:07:23,978\n在這種情形之下可能在時序上面呢還有讓他們有進來那我們也很因為我們有這個系統我們就有把他攬下來這時間沒有是正確的嘛對不對是的這時間沒有問題啊所以在1月已經有做了更完整的這樣的一個組決怎麼2月11號又發生了辣椒油素質蘇丹農2號跟4號\n\n21\n00:07:25,479 --> 00:07:46,875\n對我們就回去我們直接來去跟跨部會裡面我們有機會能夠去做進一步的溝通再跟委員處報告所以這顯然還是有問題的存在啦還是有盲點啦一個月裡面提出我們相關的一些因應作為好我們來進一步的去研擬這是下部委例嘛因為實際上的問題我們就是不容許不容許農民百姓就是不容許我們卸貸啊\n\n22\n00:07:47,856 --> 00:08:13,001\n我們就是更積極嘛好不好謝謝委員好那第二件事情也是稍微排的這個非常重要部長你看一下署長你們請回頭台灣賣入超高齡社會大家都很清楚65歲已經超過20%長照需求者的人數推估也將高達90萬人以上以因此2026的這個造福專員需求人率將達到造福需求人率將達到這一個12萬但是你目前看\n\n23\n00:08:13,801 --> 00:08:23,528\n這是往下墜的一個台灣居府人員的成長率從2020年7.79%2021年26%小數領就不再墜數了2022年7.9%2023年1.7%2024年來到1.3%居務員成長率這幾年低迷外我們台灣目前有5萬多的居府然後平均年齡都已經超過50歲未滿25歲才1800僅佔居府的3.6%\n\n24\n00:08:42,322 --> 00:09:11,742\n還是次長你們怎麼看到現在這個狀況這不僅是會有偏鄉老老照顧現在連居府也都是一樣老老居府的窘境怎麼處理怎麼因應次長非常感謝建國委員對於這個問題的關心我跟委員報告兩個重點第一個其實整個居府現在委員剛剛所說的是2020到2024他那個曲線確實是低但是請委員要注意106年我要注意什麼\n\n25\n00:09:12,282 --> 00:09:28,288\n不不不請委員你就順順講清楚我會非常注意請委員那個那個圖表再貼回去來沒有啦了解就是說我們從剛開辦的時候他的曲線是這樣上去的是啊所以我們從剛開始的時候是2.5萬現在是10萬嘛所以現金是4倍所以他的曲線是這樣現在有人說說說說沒錯是5年\n\n26\n00:09:38,032 --> 00:10:02,843\n現在也許現在到目前為止現在是目前有點就比較平但是這個部分我們也這個市場就是前幾年長照2.0在推的時候前8年也成長非常非常非常迅速最近這幾年是有點比較平滑但是第二點我們現在目前我也同意整個居福原它的平均年齡確實也偏高所以我們現在目前\n\n27\n00:10:03,783 --> 00:10:28,030\n也希望能夠在這個部分能夠多能夠來來來多推動跟這一個學校學校端這邊的一個合作來來來加強這邊的這一根年輕化當然最重要的還是薪資啦沒錯啦好了好你已經提出問題的所在嘛對不對通常要是薪資嘛所以兩個問題你都講了嘛那第一個問題我們會注意嘛你要注意那個你要把高峰的曲線不要弄出來\n\n28\n00:10:28,410 --> 00:10:49,738\n你不要因為低的才弄出來你要注意一點好不好第二點你就特別提到嘛這個年齡的問題嘛然後再來最主要還是薪資的問題長照長照大家都非常清楚一年的時候平均其實我們都我們都說的比較比較比較和緩一些的說成就還有還有50億沒啦沒這麼多啦\n\n29\n00:10:52,559 --> 00:11:07,647\n其實拜託市長回去可能要再精算一下1.0之前平均1.0才真正的有付出的是多少錢這第一第二長照2.0從小英上來之後隔年的長照基金長照福華等等陸續推動我們從50來億應該是4050億變成320億一直到現在800多要進入900多了對不對\n\n30\n00:11:16,551 --> 00:11:40,199\n那將近8年將近8年的長照相關的幾支戶通通沒有調整這比較有道理八個黨都沒有人調整你調整什麼你說我聽因為次長你自己提到薪資的問題嘛對不對你看喔小英3年以來台灣聚力工資每年調漲這個表格各位可以看一下嘛一英文的時候時薪是1220調到126\n\n31\n00:11:41,959 --> 00:11:47,221\n然後106的時候月薪從20008調到2019一直到114年的一列以後已經來到28590甚至於這個時薪已經調到190了長照怎麼會相關的幾支戶到現在8年連一個微調通通沒有\n\n32\n00:12:02,842 --> 00:12:13,150\n這太過頭注意你就要特別注意這個事情啊你可以注意到曲線你怎麼不曉得你那個長照幾十或八年那個曲線是平的\n\n33\n00:12:14,252 --> 00:12:37,188\n是平的一定不會動你叫我注意管的因為我注意雞肋的港肋的嘛你要叫我注意管的那個白白白你知不知道部長是醫師嘛很清楚到醫院有讀我看到一個數據是白白白代表什麼你知道嗎早我已經說了嘛所以要注意嘛白白白你注意嘛已經不會有啊\n\n34\n00:12:39,326 --> 00:12:44,707\n對不對現在要怎麼處理注意怎麼會把你完全都沒有動然後我們現在又針對喔衛部又針對長照3.0將讓入什麼有三項嘛第一經醫師診斷危老狀況且是能影響到日常生活第二經醫師診斷為癌末\n\n35\n00:13:02,731 --> 00:13:22,027\n然後預期壽命低於六個月的私人病患那我們現在在第三項是符合前述條件且符合勞動力中階啦這個技術人力的取得永久居留權的外籍專業人士我們要擴大這個對象嘛對不對我們在擴大對象但我們一直不提升相關的給支付你怎麼有人你怎麼補起來\n\n36\n00:13:27,551 --> 00:13:37,498\n你從很多的面向去處理要讓更多的這個造福人力長照機構人力我知道都有在做但是你的誘因在什麼地方你的鼓勵在什麼地方處長都說是了你叫他去注意啊我以後自己會好好注意啦\n\n37\n00:13:51,221 --> 00:13:55,124\n非常佩服委員長期以來對這個問題的關心我相信真的是確實誠如委員剛才所說的我想這個需求要再提高長照其實最重要的就是人力\n\n38\n00:14:06,694 --> 00:14:22,104\n因為我們也知道人力成本佔百分之六十嘛所以這個部分我們現在目前會根據我們的那個組合長照照顧組合的機制來做一個相關的一個成本效益分析但是我們現在是這樣啦簡單來講就是說業者應該自己的經驗應該最了解裡面的成本的那個結構所以你只要業者那邊拿出來大家都可以來探討嘛注意\n\n39\n00:14:36,380 --> 00:14:59,694\n人家早早就已經提出來了市民們沒有注意到啦報告委員我們也跟這個居民這邊有跟他們拜託但他們說請他們提出但是他們到目前為止其實是不會的啦那我就會特別注意居民到底在做什麼是不是沒關係他們沒有提出啦我會注意他們為什麼沒有提出之後來跟你回報\n\n40\n00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:29,437\n但是他們如果有提出那就要換你注意了對沒錯我要提到一點喔我們我剛才特別用那個就是基本工資來看待整個這個成長嘛那你怎麼可能會成照相關的幾支或標準照理講你也應該參考嘛評估嘛就像可以依照基本工資啦還是勞健保費率啦物價指數來做微調嘛即便居如沒有提出來至少還是可以來做嘛因為你剛剛特別提到的兩個點的中間的一個點薪資問題嘛\n\n41\n00:15:31,098 --> 00:15:56,096\n所以不是只有居府長照機構的人員基本上都是如此嘛所以是整體來做這個面向來做調查來做相關的這些可以依據的參考我們應該時間到了啦要進到3.0之前就應該來做調整啦好不好不然這樣等嘛好不好會啦你們來注意齁謝謝部長一起注意一個月內\n\n42\n00:15:57,057 --> 00:16:00,603\n我們把這個注意事情處理完成好不好好謝謝謝謝大家的注意\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9827\t13110\t謝謝主席,有請部長還有署長\n25240\t53648\t這個昨天齁 中華民國養豬協會潘連週理事長在媒體上就這樣表示的齁說看完進口萊豬致敬14年 相對大多數證明對進口豬肉沒有興趣只有加工廠商會給予成本採購所以不用太擔心這個進口內臟豬腳會影響到國內豬肉只要政府嚴格把關並追查豬肉動向但如果是肉品內臟還是加工品都必須要做到產地標示避免有魚目混豬的情況也保障國內豬籠的權益部長對潘理事長的說法有什麼看法現在就是這樣在做好 現在就這樣做\n54528\t65839\t但是潘理事長還有這段話的一個重點就是政府要嚴格把關並追查豬肉動向我們到底有沒有嚴格把關\n67219\t92066\t因為他在表示一週內連續有三批萊豬進口不可能是包裝錯誤或是巧合畢竟所有的貨物進口都要經過檢驗、封櫃、然後報官那這一次一週就有兩次澳洲萊豬進來那代表澳洲端沒有確實檢驗這才是問題的所在所以目前台灣在邊境的把關萊豬抽驗已經過了這四年是不是開始有一些\n93493\t97500\t怎麼說束縛懈怠不然怎麼會有這種事情發生\n98358\t100880\t好 應該不會了是不是我請署長好 請署長\n128398\t146231\t所以因此在過去一路以來我們看到他的風險並都沒有查到所以他的確是從以前逐批查到後來是降到2到10%的一個查查的比例那2到10%查查比例那我們目前看到雖然這次的檢出值是0.01到0.003ppm\n149253\t167199\t是小於我們的0.01的標準值但是剛才在先前委員會裡面委員們有一些些特別提醒我們要我們增加的我們剛才也有承諾說我們會讓國人更為安心把叉叉的比例往上提升這邊也跟委員特別做建議目前讓署長講得完整\n167819\t183125\t那如果是這個讓就是提高檢驗的這樣的一個量能嘛基本上應該要來嚇阻這些事情是應該是沒有多大的問題啦齁但是我現在用一個例子給你做參考齁那個時候你還沒有來當署長這家齁印度的Boss的香料與調味料\n185105\t203336\t這個公司在去年6月18日查出紅膠色素產品有蘇丹隆4號12月17號就是去年又被查到這個紅膠色素檢測出蘇丹隆1、2、4三個號然後今年2月11號又有辣椒油素質被檢出蘇丹隆2號跟4號這是幾點\n206278\t230074\t那去年2月27喔我們消息組的新聞稿寫得很清楚無論是邊境或後市場只要檢出蘇丹紅立即停止輸入查驗那簡單講就是說這家MOS公司在去年6月18被查驗後應該就立即停止輸入查驗為什麼它在12月還是在今年的2月11號都還可以持續進口\n231861\t240019\t這家BOSS公司一直在挑戰台灣的邊境茶葉如果說真的他來一次疏忽又被禁來了誰要負責\n241811\t264358\t這邊跟委員進一步報告這就是因為我們的邊境查驗的系統是智慧型的那它是不得檢出但是檢出了所以我們查驗比例不斷的挑高之後呢是百分之百它其實還沒到港口還沒有進入邊境我們的我們就知道這一家有進馬上就進去去做查查所以才有這個機會能夠這麼精準的把它再查到\n264958\t294358\t那因為進口商在做這件事情的時候他其實是我們在小署的部分是沒有辦法特別但是我們會予以輔導那因為輔導部分也很困難不在於本署的一個業務的能夠支持但是我們在邊境那決戰在境外的這樣子的心一定是不會改變的以上所以基本上你的意思就是說我們還是有一些防治防備防防制的機制存在但是這好像是廠家就是要跟你賭\n295438\t320476\t對不對 他就是在被堵嘛對 我們看到的情形是這樣的然後我們食藥署有這麼大的量能可以跟他對堵嗎我們跟委員報告我們的Border Protection Intelligence就是邊境的智慧茶茶的系統裡面對於這樣子的茶茶已經違規是不得檢出的它自然跳出來的就會變成百分之百只要這個廠家出來馬上就會是每一批\n321337\t344892\t因為報關的相關資料裡面我們就可以抓得到所以在這邊特別跟委員報告說我們已經在做所謂的精準抽驗上面已經有量能這樣的提升對國人的安全的努力現在這樣的場景為什麼不把它列作是一個黑名單對它就是黑名單就是我們知道它是黑名單但是我們就會去你覺得它是黑名單它還可以持續的這樣持續的報關來挑戰來跟你賭\n347914\t372252\t這在貿易的部分他們自由貿易的廠商的部分我覺得應該要有他們我覺得這應該要有個因應之道吧不能這個樣子嘛對不對你當然有相關的機制完備但是他還敢跟你賭那到底是我們有什麼調整的空間他連賭都不能賭就是他沒有提供安全足夠的這樣的品質保證的情況之下他都不需要賭了就是主角了啦\n373012\t394398\t也不用浪費這麼多的人力甚至於還有要用更進步的科技來做專業主角我覺得這應該是可以討論的吧謝謝委員我想這個部分我們一定帶回去看怎麼進一步可能不是單單在衛福部事要署這邊我們能夠在跨部會裡面做一些些溝通協調看怎麼能夠去努力一個月好不好問一下這個邊境一個月應該可以吧\n400529\t422815\t因為我們經生的問題我們經不起任何一次的疏忽嘛然後這廠家就是有就是慣性嘛對報告委員這邊其實剛才提到這家廠商真的是在今年1月24號之後我們有停止其輸入的查驗的是已經有這樣子的阻絕的動作今年的1月嘛有停止輸入的查驗嘛對不對是但是你在關稅的時候是今年的2月11號啊對所以\n424275\t443978\t在這種情形之下可能在時序上面呢還有讓他們有進來那我們也很因為我們有這個系統我們就有把他攬下來這時間沒有是正確的嘛對不對是的這時間沒有問題啊所以在1月已經有做了更完整的這樣的一個組決怎麼2月11號又發生了辣椒油素質蘇丹農2號跟4號\n445479\t466875\t對我們就回去我們直接來去跟跨部會裡面我們有機會能夠去做進一步的溝通再跟委員處報告所以這顯然還是有問題的存在啦還是有盲點啦一個月裡面提出我們相關的一些因應作為好我們來進一步的去研擬這是下部委例嘛因為實際上的問題我們就是不容許不容許農民百姓就是不容許我們卸貸啊\n467856\t493001\t我們就是更積極嘛 好不好 謝謝委員好 那第二件事情也是稍微排的 這個非常重要部長你看一下 署長你們請回頭台灣賣入超高齡社會大家都很清楚 65歲已經超過20%長照需求者的人數推估也將高達90萬人以上以因此2026的這個造福專員需求人率將達到造福需求人率 將達到這一個12萬但是你目前看\n493801\t503528\t這是往下墜的一個台灣居府人員的成長率從2020年7.79%2021年26%小數領就不再墜數了2022年7.9%2023年1.7%2024年來到1.3%居務員成長率這幾年低迷外我們台灣目前有5萬多的居府然後平均年齡都已經超過50歲未滿25歲才1800僅佔居府的3.6%\n522322\t551742\t還是次長你們怎麼看到現在這個狀況這不僅是會有偏鄉老老照顧現在連居府也都是一樣老老居府的窘境怎麼處理怎麼因應次長非常感謝建國委員對於這個問題的關心我跟委員報告兩個重點第一個其實整個居府現在委員剛剛所說的是2020到2024他那個曲線確實是低但是請委員要注意106年我要注意什麼\n552282\t568288\t不不不 請委員你就順順講清楚我會非常注意請委員那個那個圖表再貼回去來沒有啦 了解就是說我們從剛開辦的時候 他的曲線是這樣上去的是啊所以我們從剛開始的時候是2.5萬現在是10萬嘛所以現金是4倍所以他的曲線是這樣現在有人說說說說 沒錯 是5年\n578032\t602843\t現在也許現在到目前為止現在是目前有點就比較平但是這個部分我們也這個市場就是前幾年長照2.0在推的時候前8年也成長非常非常非常迅速最近這幾年是有點比較平滑但是第二點我們現在目前我也同意整個居福原它的平均年齡確實也偏高所以我們現在目前\n603783\t628030\t也希望能夠在這個部分能夠多能夠來來來多推動跟這一個學校學校端這邊的一個合作來來來加強這邊的這一根年輕化當然最重要的還是薪資啦沒錯啦好了好你已經提出問題的所在嘛對不對通常要是薪資嘛所以兩個問題你都講了嘛那第一個問題我們會注意嘛你要注意那個你要把高峰的曲線不要弄出來\n628410\t649738\t你不要因為低的才弄出來你要注意一點好不好第二點你就特別提到嘛這個年齡的問題嘛然後再來最主要還是薪資的問題長照長照大家都非常清楚一年的時候平均其實我們都我們都說的比較比較比較和緩一些的說成就還有還有50億沒啦沒這麼多啦\n652559\t667647\t其實拜託市長回去可能要再精算一下1.0之前平均1.0才真正的有付出的是多少錢這第一第二長照2.0從小英上來之後隔年的長照基金長照福華等等陸續推動我們從50來億應該是40 50億變成320億一直到現在800多要進入900多了對不對\n676551\t700199\t那將近8年 將近8年的長照相關的幾支戶 通通沒有調整這比較有道理 八個黨都沒有人調整你調整什麼 你說我聽因為次長你自己提到薪資的問題嘛 對不對你看喔 小英3年以來 台灣聚力工資每年調漲這個表格各位可以看一下嘛一英文的時候 時薪是1220調到126\n701959\t707221\t然後106的時候月薪從20008調到2019一直到114年的一列以後已經來到28590甚至於這個時薪已經調到190了長照怎麼會相關的幾支戶到現在8年連一個微調通通沒有\n722842\t733150\t這太過頭注意你就要特別注意這個事情啊你可以注意到曲線你怎麼不曉得你那個長照幾十或八年那個曲線是平的\n734252\t757188\t是平的 一定不會動你叫我注意管的因為我注意雞肋的 港肋的嘛你要叫我注意管的 那個白白白你知不知道部長是醫師嘛 很清楚到醫院有讀我看到一個數據是白白白代表什麼你知道嗎早我已經說了嘛所以要注意嘛白白白你注意嘛 已經不會有啊\n759326\t764707\t對不對現在要怎麼處理注意怎麼會把你完全都沒有動然後我們現在又針對喔衛部又針對長照3.0將讓入什麼有三項嘛第一經醫師診斷危老狀況且是能影響到日常生活第二經醫師診斷為癌末\n782731\t802027\t然後預期壽命低於六個月的私人病患那我們現在在第三項是符合前述條件且符合勞動力中階啦這個技術人力的取得永久居留權的外籍專業人士我們要擴大這個對象嘛對不對我們在擴大對象但我們一直不提升相關的給支付你怎麼有人你怎麼補起來\n807551\t817498\t你從很多的面向去處理 要讓更多的這個造福人力長照機構人力 我知道都有在做但是你的誘因在什麼地方 你的鼓勵在什麼地方處長都說是了 你叫他去注意啊我以後自己會好好注意啦\n831221\t835124\t非常佩服委員長期以來對這個問題的關心我相信真的是確實誠如委員剛才所說的我想這個需求要再提高長照其實最重要的就是人力\n846694\t862104\t因為我們也知道人力成本佔百分之六十嘛所以這個部分我們現在目前會根據我們的那個組合長照照顧組合的機制來做一個相關的一個成本效益分析但是我們現在是這樣啦簡單來講就是說業者應該自己的經驗應該最了解裡面的成本的那個結構所以你只要業者那邊拿出來大家都可以來探討嘛注意\n876380\t899694\t人家早早就已經提出來了市民們沒有注意到啦報告委員我們也跟這個居民這邊有跟他們拜託但他們說請他們提出但是他們到目前為止其實是不會的啦那我就會特別注意居民到底在做什麼是不是沒關係他們沒有提出啦我會注意他們為什麼沒有提出之後來跟你回報\n900680\t929437\t但是他們如果有提出那就要換你注意了對 沒錯我要提到一點喔我們 我剛才特別用那個就是基本工資來看待整個這個成長嘛那你怎麼可能會成照相關的幾支或標準照理講你也應該參考嘛 評估嘛就像可以依照基本工資啦還是勞健保費率啦 物價指數來做微調嘛即便居如沒有提出來至少還是可以來做嘛因為你剛剛特別提到的兩個點的中間的一個點薪資問題嘛\n931098\t956096\t所以不是只有居府 長照機構的人員基本上都是如此嘛所以是整體來做這個面向來做調查 來做相關的這些可以依據的參考我們應該 時間到了啦 要進到3.0之前就應該來做調整啦好不好 不然這樣等嘛好不好 會啦 你們來注意齁謝謝部長 一起注意 一個月內\n957057\t960603\t我們把這個注意事情處理完成 好不好好 謝謝 謝謝大家的注意\n","txt":"謝謝主席,有請部長還有署長\n這個昨天齁 中華民國養豬協會潘連週理事長在媒體上就這樣表示的齁說看完進口萊豬致敬14年 相對大多數證明對進口豬肉沒有興趣只有加工廠商會給予成本採購所以不用太擔心這個進口內臟豬腳會影響到國內豬肉只要政府嚴格把關並追查豬肉動向但如果是肉品內臟還是加工品都必須要做到產地標示避免有魚目混豬的情況也保障國內豬籠的權益部長對潘理事長的說法有什麼看法現在就是這樣在做好 現在就這樣做\n但是潘理事長還有這段話的一個重點就是政府要嚴格把關並追查豬肉動向我們到底有沒有嚴格把關\n因為他在表示一週內連續有三批萊豬進口不可能是包裝錯誤或是巧合畢竟所有的貨物進口都要經過檢驗、封櫃、然後報官那這一次一週就有兩次澳洲萊豬進來那代表澳洲端沒有確實檢驗這才是問題的所在所以目前台灣在邊境的把關萊豬抽驗已經過了這四年是不是開始有一些\n怎麼說束縛懈怠不然怎麼會有這種事情發生\n好 應該不會了是不是我請署長好 請署長\n所以因此在過去一路以來我們看到他的風險並都沒有查到所以他的確是從以前逐批查到後來是降到2到10%的一個查查的比例那2到10%查查比例那我們目前看到雖然這次的檢出值是0.01到0.003ppm\n是小於我們的0.01的標準值但是剛才在先前委員會裡面委員們有一些些特別提醒我們要我們增加的我們剛才也有承諾說我們會讓國人更為安心把叉叉的比例往上提升這邊也跟委員特別做建議目前讓署長講得完整\n那如果是這個讓就是提高檢驗的這樣的一個量能嘛基本上應該要來嚇阻這些事情是應該是沒有多大的問題啦齁但是我現在用一個例子給你做參考齁那個時候你還沒有來當署長這家齁印度的Boss的香料與調味料\n這個公司在去年6月18日查出紅膠色素產品有蘇丹隆4號12月17號就是去年又被查到這個紅膠色素檢測出蘇丹隆1、2、4三個號然後今年2月11號又有辣椒油素質被檢出蘇丹隆2號跟4號這是幾點\n那去年2月27喔我們消息組的新聞稿寫得很清楚無論是邊境或後市場只要檢出蘇丹紅立即停止輸入查驗那簡單講就是說這家MOS公司在去年6月18被查驗後應該就立即停止輸入查驗為什麼它在12月還是在今年的2月11號都還可以持續進口\n這家BOSS公司一直在挑戰台灣的邊境茶葉如果說真的他來一次疏忽又被禁來了誰要負責\n這邊跟委員進一步報告這就是因為我們的邊境查驗的系統是智慧型的那它是不得檢出但是檢出了所以我們查驗比例不斷的挑高之後呢是百分之百它其實還沒到港口還沒有進入邊境我們的我們就知道這一家有進馬上就進去去做查查所以才有這個機會能夠這麼精準的把它再查到\n那因為進口商在做這件事情的時候他其實是我們在小署的部分是沒有辦法特別但是我們會予以輔導那因為輔導部分也很困難不在於本署的一個業務的能夠支持但是我們在邊境那決戰在境外的這樣子的心一定是不會改變的以上所以基本上你的意思就是說我們還是有一些防治防備防防制的機制存在但是這好像是廠家就是要跟你賭\n對不對 他就是在被堵嘛對 我們看到的情形是這樣的然後我們食藥署有這麼大的量能可以跟他對堵嗎我們跟委員報告我們的Border Protection Intelligence就是邊境的智慧茶茶的系統裡面對於這樣子的茶茶已經違規是不得檢出的它自然跳出來的就會變成百分之百只要這個廠家出來馬上就會是每一批\n因為報關的相關資料裡面我們就可以抓得到所以在這邊特別跟委員報告說我們已經在做所謂的精準抽驗上面已經有量能這樣的提升對國人的安全的努力現在這樣的場景為什麼不把它列作是一個黑名單對它就是黑名單就是我們知道它是黑名單但是我們就會去你覺得它是黑名單它還可以持續的這樣持續的報關來挑戰來跟你賭\n這在貿易的部分他們自由貿易的廠商的部分我覺得應該要有他們我覺得這應該要有個因應之道吧不能這個樣子嘛對不對你當然有相關的機制完備但是他還敢跟你賭那到底是我們有什麼調整的空間他連賭都不能賭就是他沒有提供安全足夠的這樣的品質保證的情況之下他都不需要賭了就是主角了啦\n也不用浪費這麼多的人力甚至於還有要用更進步的科技來做專業主角我覺得這應該是可以討論的吧謝謝委員我想這個部分我們一定帶回去看怎麼進一步可能不是單單在衛福部事要署這邊我們能夠在跨部會裡面做一些些溝通協調看怎麼能夠去努力一個月好不好問一下這個邊境一個月應該可以吧\n因為我們經生的問題我們經不起任何一次的疏忽嘛然後這廠家就是有就是慣性嘛對報告委員這邊其實剛才提到這家廠商真的是在今年1月24號之後我們有停止其輸入的查驗的是已經有這樣子的阻絕的動作今年的1月嘛有停止輸入的查驗嘛對不對是但是你在關稅的時候是今年的2月11號啊對所以\n在這種情形之下可能在時序上面呢還有讓他們有進來那我們也很因為我們有這個系統我們就有把他攬下來這時間沒有是正確的嘛對不對是的這時間沒有問題啊所以在1月已經有做了更完整的這樣的一個組決怎麼2月11號又發生了辣椒油素質蘇丹農2號跟4號\n對我們就回去我們直接來去跟跨部會裡面我們有機會能夠去做進一步的溝通再跟委員處報告所以這顯然還是有問題的存在啦還是有盲點啦一個月裡面提出我們相關的一些因應作為好我們來進一步的去研擬這是下部委例嘛因為實際上的問題我們就是不容許不容許農民百姓就是不容許我們卸貸啊\n我們就是更積極嘛 好不好 謝謝委員好 那第二件事情也是稍微排的 這個非常重要部長你看一下 署長你們請回頭台灣賣入超高齡社會大家都很清楚 65歲已經超過20%長照需求者的人數推估也將高達90萬人以上以因此2026的這個造福專員需求人率將達到造福需求人率 將達到這一個12萬但是你目前看\n這是往下墜的一個台灣居府人員的成長率從2020年7.79%2021年26%小數領就不再墜數了2022年7.9%2023年1.7%2024年來到1.3%居務員成長率這幾年低迷外我們台灣目前有5萬多的居府然後平均年齡都已經超過50歲未滿25歲才1800僅佔居府的3.6%\n還是次長你們怎麼看到現在這個狀況這不僅是會有偏鄉老老照顧現在連居府也都是一樣老老居府的窘境怎麼處理怎麼因應次長非常感謝建國委員對於這個問題的關心我跟委員報告兩個重點第一個其實整個居府現在委員剛剛所說的是2020到2024他那個曲線確實是低但是請委員要注意106年我要注意什麼\n不不不 請委員你就順順講清楚我會非常注意請委員那個那個圖表再貼回去來沒有啦 了解就是說我們從剛開辦的時候 他的曲線是這樣上去的是啊所以我們從剛開始的時候是2.5萬現在是10萬嘛所以現金是4倍所以他的曲線是這樣現在有人說說說說 沒錯 是5年\n現在也許現在到目前為止現在是目前有點就比較平但是這個部分我們也這個市場就是前幾年長照2.0在推的時候前8年也成長非常非常非常迅速最近這幾年是有點比較平滑但是第二點我們現在目前我也同意整個居福原它的平均年齡確實也偏高所以我們現在目前\n也希望能夠在這個部分能夠多能夠來來來多推動跟這一個學校學校端這邊的一個合作來來來加強這邊的這一根年輕化當然最重要的還是薪資啦沒錯啦好了好你已經提出問題的所在嘛對不對通常要是薪資嘛所以兩個問題你都講了嘛那第一個問題我們會注意嘛你要注意那個你要把高峰的曲線不要弄出來\n你不要因為低的才弄出來你要注意一點好不好第二點你就特別提到嘛這個年齡的問題嘛然後再來最主要還是薪資的問題長照長照大家都非常清楚一年的時候平均其實我們都我們都說的比較比較比較和緩一些的說成就還有還有50億沒啦沒這麼多啦\n其實拜託市長回去可能要再精算一下1.0之前平均1.0才真正的有付出的是多少錢這第一第二長照2.0從小英上來之後隔年的長照基金長照福華等等陸續推動我們從50來億應該是40 50億變成320億一直到現在800多要進入900多了對不對\n那將近8年 將近8年的長照相關的幾支戶 通通沒有調整這比較有道理 八個黨都沒有人調整你調整什麼 你說我聽因為次長你自己提到薪資的問題嘛 對不對你看喔 小英3年以來 台灣聚力工資每年調漲這個表格各位可以看一下嘛一英文的時候 時薪是1220調到126\n然後106的時候月薪從20008調到2019一直到114年的一列以後已經來到28590甚至於這個時薪已經調到190了長照怎麼會相關的幾支戶到現在8年連一個微調通通沒有\n這太過頭注意你就要特別注意這個事情啊你可以注意到曲線你怎麼不曉得你那個長照幾十或八年那個曲線是平的\n是平的 一定不會動你叫我注意管的因為我注意雞肋的 港肋的嘛你要叫我注意管的 那個白白白你知不知道部長是醫師嘛 很清楚到醫院有讀我看到一個數據是白白白代表什麼你知道嗎早我已經說了嘛所以要注意嘛白白白你注意嘛 已經不會有啊\n對不對現在要怎麼處理注意怎麼會把你完全都沒有動然後我們現在又針對喔衛部又針對長照3.0將讓入什麼有三項嘛第一經醫師診斷危老狀況且是能影響到日常生活第二經醫師診斷為癌末\n然後預期壽命低於六個月的私人病患那我們現在在第三項是符合前述條件且符合勞動力中階啦這個技術人力的取得永久居留權的外籍專業人士我們要擴大這個對象嘛對不對我們在擴大對象但我們一直不提升相關的給支付你怎麼有人你怎麼補起來\n你從很多的面向去處理 要讓更多的這個造福人力長照機構人力 我知道都有在做但是你的誘因在什麼地方 你的鼓勵在什麼地方處長都說是了 你叫他去注意啊我以後自己會好好注意啦\n非常佩服委員長期以來對這個問題的關心我相信真的是確實誠如委員剛才所說的我想這個需求要再提高長照其實最重要的就是人力\n因為我們也知道人力成本佔百分之六十嘛所以這個部分我們現在目前會根據我們的那個組合長照照顧組合的機制來做一個相關的一個成本效益分析但是我們現在是這樣啦簡單來講就是說業者應該自己的經驗應該最了解裡面的成本的那個結構所以你只要業者那邊拿出來大家都可以來探討嘛注意\n人家早早就已經提出來了市民們沒有注意到啦報告委員我們也跟這個居民這邊有跟他們拜託但他們說請他們提出但是他們到目前為止其實是不會的啦那我就會特別注意居民到底在做什麼是不是沒關係他們沒有提出啦我會注意他們為什麼沒有提出之後來跟你回報\n但是他們如果有提出那就要換你注意了對 沒錯我要提到一點喔我們 我剛才特別用那個就是基本工資來看待整個這個成長嘛那你怎麼可能會成照相關的幾支或標準照理講你也應該參考嘛 評估嘛就像可以依照基本工資啦還是勞健保費率啦 物價指數來做微調嘛即便居如沒有提出來至少還是可以來做嘛因為你剛剛特別提到的兩個點的中間的一個點薪資問題嘛\n所以不是只有居府 長照機構的人員基本上都是如此嘛所以是整體來做這個面向來做調查 來做相關的這些可以依據的參考我們應該 時間到了啦 要進到3.0之前就應該來做調整啦好不好 不然這樣等嘛好不好 會啦 你們來注意齁謝謝部長 一起注意 一個月內\n我們把這個注意事情處理完成 好不好好 謝謝 謝謝大家的注意\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.827 --> 00:13.110\n謝謝主席,有請部長還有署長\n\n00:25.240 --> 00:53.648\n這個昨天齁中華民國養豬協會潘連週理事長在媒體上就這樣表示的齁說看完進口萊豬致敬14年相對大多數證明對進口豬肉沒有興趣只有加工廠商會給予成本採購所以不用太擔心這個進口內臟豬腳會影響到國內豬肉只要政府嚴格把關並追查豬肉動向但如果是肉品內臟還是加工品都必須要做到產地標示避免有魚目混豬的情況也保障國內豬籠的權益部長對潘理事長的說法有什麼看法現在就是這樣在做好現在就這樣做\n\n00:54.528 --> 01:05.839\n但是潘理事長還有這段話的一個重點就是政府要嚴格把關並追查豬肉動向我們到底有沒有嚴格把關\n\n01:07.219 --> 01:32.066\n因為他在表示一週內連續有三批萊豬進口不可能是包裝錯誤或是巧合畢竟所有的貨物進口都要經過檢驗、封櫃、然後報官那這一次一週就有兩次澳洲萊豬進來那代表澳洲端沒有確實檢驗這才是問題的所在所以目前台灣在邊境的把關萊豬抽驗已經過了這四年是不是開始有一些\n\n01:33.493 --> 01:37.500\n怎麼說束縛懈怠不然怎麼會有這種事情發生\n\n01:38.358 --> 01:40.880\n好應該不會了是不是我請署長好請署長\n\n02:08.398 --> 02:26.231\n所以因此在過去一路以來我們看到他的風險並都沒有查到所以他的確是從以前逐批查到後來是降到2到10%的一個查查的比例那2到10%查查比例那我們目前看到雖然這次的檢出值是0.01到0.003ppm\n\n02:29.253 --> 02:47.199\n是小於我們的0.01的標準值但是剛才在先前委員會裡面委員們有一些些特別提醒我們要我們增加的我們剛才也有承諾說我們會讓國人更為安心把叉叉的比例往上提升這邊也跟委員特別做建議目前讓署長講得完整\n\n02:47.819 --> 03:03.125\n那如果是這個讓就是提高檢驗的這樣的一個量能嘛基本上應該要來嚇阻這些事情是應該是沒有多大的問題啦齁但是我現在用一個例子給你做參考齁那個時候你還沒有來當署長這家齁印度的Boss的香料與調味料\n\n03:05.105 --> 03:23.336\n這個公司在去年6月18日查出紅膠色素產品有蘇丹隆4號12月17號就是去年又被查到這個紅膠色素檢測出蘇丹隆1、2、4三個號然後今年2月11號又有辣椒油素質被檢出蘇丹隆2號跟4號這是幾點\n\n03:26.278 --> 03:50.074\n那去年2月27喔我們消息組的新聞稿寫得很清楚無論是邊境或後市場只要檢出蘇丹紅立即停止輸入查驗那簡單講就是說這家MOS公司在去年6月18被查驗後應該就立即停止輸入查驗為什麼它在12月還是在今年的2月11號都還可以持續進口\n\n03:51.861 --> 04:00.019\n這家BOSS公司一直在挑戰台灣的邊境茶葉如果說真的他來一次疏忽又被禁來了誰要負責\n\n04:01.811 --> 04:24.358\n這邊跟委員進一步報告這就是因為我們的邊境查驗的系統是智慧型的那它是不得檢出但是檢出了所以我們查驗比例不斷的挑高之後呢是百分之百它其實還沒到港口還沒有進入邊境我們的我們就知道這一家有進馬上就進去去做查查所以才有這個機會能夠這麼精準的把它再查到\n\n04:24.958 --> 04:54.358\n那因為進口商在做這件事情的時候他其實是我們在小署的部分是沒有辦法特別但是我們會予以輔導那因為輔導部分也很困難不在於本署的一個業務的能夠支持但是我們在邊境那決戰在境外的這樣子的心一定是不會改變的以上所以基本上你的意思就是說我們還是有一些防治防備防防制的機制存在但是這好像是廠家就是要跟你賭\n\n04:55.438 --> 05:20.476\n對不對他就是在被堵嘛對我們看到的情形是這樣的然後我們食藥署有這麼大的量能可以跟他對堵嗎我們跟委員報告我們的BorderProtectionIntelligence就是邊境的智慧茶茶的系統裡面對於這樣子的茶茶已經違規是不得檢出的它自然跳出來的就會變成百分之百只要這個廠家出來馬上就會是每一批\n\n05:21.337 --> 05:44.892\n因為報關的相關資料裡面我們就可以抓得到所以在這邊特別跟委員報告說我們已經在做所謂的精準抽驗上面已經有量能這樣的提升對國人的安全的努力現在這樣的場景為什麼不把它列作是一個黑名單對它就是黑名單就是我們知道它是黑名單但是我們就會去你覺得它是黑名單它還可以持續的這樣持續的報關來挑戰來跟你賭\n\n05:47.914 --> 06:12.252\n這在貿易的部分他們自由貿易的廠商的部分我覺得應該要有他們我覺得這應該要有個因應之道吧不能這個樣子嘛對不對你當然有相關的機制完備但是他還敢跟你賭那到底是我們有什麼調整的空間他連賭都不能賭就是他沒有提供安全足夠的這樣的品質保證的情況之下他都不需要賭了就是主角了啦\n\n06:13.012 --> 06:34.398\n也不用浪費這麼多的人力甚至於還有要用更進步的科技來做專業主角我覺得這應該是可以討論的吧謝謝委員我想這個部分我們一定帶回去看怎麼進一步可能不是單單在衛福部事要署這邊我們能夠在跨部會裡面做一些些溝通協調看怎麼能夠去努力一個月好不好問一下這個邊境一個月應該可以吧\n\n06:40.529 --> 07:02.815\n因為我們經生的問題我們經不起任何一次的疏忽嘛然後這廠家就是有就是慣性嘛對報告委員這邊其實剛才提到這家廠商真的是在今年1月24號之後我們有停止其輸入的查驗的是已經有這樣子的阻絕的動作今年的1月嘛有停止輸入的查驗嘛對不對是但是你在關稅的時候是今年的2月11號啊對所以\n\n07:04.275 --> 07:23.978\n在這種情形之下可能在時序上面呢還有讓他們有進來那我們也很因為我們有這個系統我們就有把他攬下來這時間沒有是正確的嘛對不對是的這時間沒有問題啊所以在1月已經有做了更完整的這樣的一個組決怎麼2月11號又發生了辣椒油素質蘇丹農2號跟4號\n\n07:25.479 --> 07:46.875\n對我們就回去我們直接來去跟跨部會裡面我們有機會能夠去做進一步的溝通再跟委員處報告所以這顯然還是有問題的存在啦還是有盲點啦一個月裡面提出我們相關的一些因應作為好我們來進一步的去研擬這是下部委例嘛因為實際上的問題我們就是不容許不容許農民百姓就是不容許我們卸貸啊\n\n07:47.856 --> 08:13.001\n我們就是更積極嘛好不好謝謝委員好那第二件事情也是稍微排的這個非常重要部長你看一下署長你們請回頭台灣賣入超高齡社會大家都很清楚65歲已經超過20%長照需求者的人數推估也將高達90萬人以上以因此2026的這個造福專員需求人率將達到造福需求人率將達到這一個12萬但是你目前看\n\n08:13.801 --> 08:23.528\n這是往下墜的一個台灣居府人員的成長率從2020年7.79%2021年26%小數領就不再墜數了2022年7.9%2023年1.7%2024年來到1.3%居務員成長率這幾年低迷外我們台灣目前有5萬多的居府然後平均年齡都已經超過50歲未滿25歲才1800僅佔居府的3.6%\n\n08:42.322 --> 09:11.742\n還是次長你們怎麼看到現在這個狀況這不僅是會有偏鄉老老照顧現在連居府也都是一樣老老居府的窘境怎麼處理怎麼因應次長非常感謝建國委員對於這個問題的關心我跟委員報告兩個重點第一個其實整個居府現在委員剛剛所說的是2020到2024他那個曲線確實是低但是請委員要注意106年我要注意什麼\n\n09:12.282 --> 09:28.288\n不不不請委員你就順順講清楚我會非常注意請委員那個那個圖表再貼回去來沒有啦了解就是說我們從剛開辦的時候他的曲線是這樣上去的是啊所以我們從剛開始的時候是2.5萬現在是10萬嘛所以現金是4倍所以他的曲線是這樣現在有人說說說說沒錯是5年\n\n09:38.032 --> 10:02.843\n現在也許現在到目前為止現在是目前有點就比較平但是這個部分我們也這個市場就是前幾年長照2.0在推的時候前8年也成長非常非常非常迅速最近這幾年是有點比較平滑但是第二點我們現在目前我也同意整個居福原它的平均年齡確實也偏高所以我們現在目前\n\n10:03.783 --> 10:28.030\n也希望能夠在這個部分能夠多能夠來來來多推動跟這一個學校學校端這邊的一個合作來來來加強這邊的這一根年輕化當然最重要的還是薪資啦沒錯啦好了好你已經提出問題的所在嘛對不對通常要是薪資嘛所以兩個問題你都講了嘛那第一個問題我們會注意嘛你要注意那個你要把高峰的曲線不要弄出來\n\n10:28.410 --> 10:49.738\n你不要因為低的才弄出來你要注意一點好不好第二點你就特別提到嘛這個年齡的問題嘛然後再來最主要還是薪資的問題長照長照大家都非常清楚一年的時候平均其實我們都我們都說的比較比較比較和緩一些的說成就還有還有50億沒啦沒這麼多啦\n\n10:52.559 --> 11:07.647\n其實拜託市長回去可能要再精算一下1.0之前平均1.0才真正的有付出的是多少錢這第一第二長照2.0從小英上來之後隔年的長照基金長照福華等等陸續推動我們從50來億應該是4050億變成320億一直到現在800多要進入900多了對不對\n\n11:16.551 --> 11:40.199\n那將近8年將近8年的長照相關的幾支戶通通沒有調整這比較有道理八個黨都沒有人調整你調整什麼你說我聽因為次長你自己提到薪資的問題嘛對不對你看喔小英3年以來台灣聚力工資每年調漲這個表格各位可以看一下嘛一英文的時候時薪是1220調到126\n\n11:41.959 --> 11:47.221\n然後106的時候月薪從20008調到2019一直到114年的一列以後已經來到28590甚至於這個時薪已經調到190了長照怎麼會相關的幾支戶到現在8年連一個微調通通沒有\n\n12:02.842 --> 12:13.150\n這太過頭注意你就要特別注意這個事情啊你可以注意到曲線你怎麼不曉得你那個長照幾十或八年那個曲線是平的\n\n12:14.252 --> 12:37.188\n是平的一定不會動你叫我注意管的因為我注意雞肋的港肋的嘛你要叫我注意管的那個白白白你知不知道部長是醫師嘛很清楚到醫院有讀我看到一個數據是白白白代表什麼你知道嗎早我已經說了嘛所以要注意嘛白白白你注意嘛已經不會有啊\n\n12:39.326 --> 12:44.707\n對不對現在要怎麼處理注意怎麼會把你完全都沒有動然後我們現在又針對喔衛部又針對長照3.0將讓入什麼有三項嘛第一經醫師診斷危老狀況且是能影響到日常生活第二經醫師診斷為癌末\n\n13:02.731 --> 13:22.027\n然後預期壽命低於六個月的私人病患那我們現在在第三項是符合前述條件且符合勞動力中階啦這個技術人力的取得永久居留權的外籍專業人士我們要擴大這個對象嘛對不對我們在擴大對象但我們一直不提升相關的給支付你怎麼有人你怎麼補起來\n\n13:27.551 --> 13:37.498\n你從很多的面向去處理要讓更多的這個造福人力長照機構人力我知道都有在做但是你的誘因在什麼地方你的鼓勵在什麼地方處長都說是了你叫他去注意啊我以後自己會好好注意啦\n\n13:51.221 --> 13:55.124\n非常佩服委員長期以來對這個問題的關心我相信真的是確實誠如委員剛才所說的我想這個需求要再提高長照其實最重要的就是人力\n\n14:06.694 --> 14:22.104\n因為我們也知道人力成本佔百分之六十嘛所以這個部分我們現在目前會根據我們的那個組合長照照顧組合的機制來做一個相關的一個成本效益分析但是我們現在是這樣啦簡單來講就是說業者應該自己的經驗應該最了解裡面的成本的那個結構所以你只要業者那邊拿出來大家都可以來探討嘛注意\n\n14:36.380 --> 14:59.694\n人家早早就已經提出來了市民們沒有注意到啦報告委員我們也跟這個居民這邊有跟他們拜託但他們說請他們提出但是他們到目前為止其實是不會的啦那我就會特別注意居民到底在做什麼是不是沒關係他們沒有提出啦我會注意他們為什麼沒有提出之後來跟你回報\n\n15:00.680 --> 15:29.437\n但是他們如果有提出那就要換你注意了對沒錯我要提到一點喔我們我剛才特別用那個就是基本工資來看待整個這個成長嘛那你怎麼可能會成照相關的幾支或標準照理講你也應該參考嘛評估嘛就像可以依照基本工資啦還是勞健保費率啦物價指數來做微調嘛即便居如沒有提出來至少還是可以來做嘛因為你剛剛特別提到的兩個點的中間的一個點薪資問題嘛\n\n15:31.098 --> 15:56.096\n所以不是只有居府長照機構的人員基本上都是如此嘛所以是整體來做這個面向來做調查來做相關的這些可以依據的參考我們應該時間到了啦要進到3.0之前就應該來做調整啦好不好不然這樣等嘛好不好會啦你們來注意齁謝謝部長一起注意一個月內\n\n15:57.057 --> 16:00.603\n我們把這個注意事情處理完成好不好好謝謝謝謝大家的注意\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.827,"end":13.11,"text":"謝謝主席,有請部長還有署長"},{"start":25.24,"end":53.648,"text":"這個昨天齁 中華民國養豬協會潘連週理事長在媒體上就這樣表示的齁說看完進口萊豬致敬14年 相對大多數證明對進口豬肉沒有興趣只有加工廠商會給予成本採購所以不用太擔心這個進口內臟豬腳會影響到國內豬肉只要政府嚴格把關並追查豬肉動向但如果是肉品內臟還是加工品都必須要做到產地標示避免有魚目混豬的情況也保障國內豬籠的權益部長對潘理事長的說法有什麼看法現在就是這樣在做好 現在就這樣做"},{"start":54.528,"end":65.839,"text":"但是潘理事長還有這段話的一個重點就是政府要嚴格把關並追查豬肉動向我們到底有沒有嚴格把關"},{"start":67.219,"end":92.066,"text":"因為他在表示一週內連續有三批萊豬進口不可能是包裝錯誤或是巧合畢竟所有的貨物進口都要經過檢驗、封櫃、然後報官那這一次一週就有兩次澳洲萊豬進來那代表澳洲端沒有確實檢驗這才是問題的所在所以目前台灣在邊境的把關萊豬抽驗已經過了這四年是不是開始有一些"},{"start":93.493,"end":97.5,"text":"怎麼說束縛懈怠不然怎麼會有這種事情發生"},{"start":98.358,"end":100.88,"text":"好 應該不會了是不是我請署長好 請署長"},{"start":128.398,"end":146.231,"text":"所以因此在過去一路以來我們看到他的風險並都沒有查到所以他的確是從以前逐批查到後來是降到2到10%的一個查查的比例那2到10%查查比例那我們目前看到雖然這次的檢出值是0.01到0.003ppm"},{"start":149.253,"end":167.199,"text":"是小於我們的0.01的標準值但是剛才在先前委員會裡面委員們有一些些特別提醒我們要我們增加的我們剛才也有承諾說我們會讓國人更為安心把叉叉的比例往上提升這邊也跟委員特別做建議目前讓署長講得完整"},{"start":167.819,"end":183.125,"text":"那如果是這個讓就是提高檢驗的這樣的一個量能嘛基本上應該要來嚇阻這些事情是應該是沒有多大的問題啦齁但是我現在用一個例子給你做參考齁那個時候你還沒有來當署長這家齁印度的Boss的香料與調味料"},{"start":185.105,"end":203.336,"text":"這個公司在去年6月18日查出紅膠色素產品有蘇丹隆4號12月17號就是去年又被查到這個紅膠色素檢測出蘇丹隆1、2、4三個號然後今年2月11號又有辣椒油素質被檢出蘇丹隆2號跟4號這是幾點"},{"start":206.278,"end":230.074,"text":"那去年2月27喔我們消息組的新聞稿寫得很清楚無論是邊境或後市場只要檢出蘇丹紅立即停止輸入查驗那簡單講就是說這家MOS公司在去年6月18被查驗後應該就立即停止輸入查驗為什麼它在12月還是在今年的2月11號都還可以持續進口"},{"start":231.861,"end":240.019,"text":"這家BOSS公司一直在挑戰台灣的邊境茶葉如果說真的他來一次疏忽又被禁來了誰要負責"},{"start":241.811,"end":264.358,"text":"這邊跟委員進一步報告這就是因為我們的邊境查驗的系統是智慧型的那它是不得檢出但是檢出了所以我們查驗比例不斷的挑高之後呢是百分之百它其實還沒到港口還沒有進入邊境我們的我們就知道這一家有進馬上就進去去做查查所以才有這個機會能夠這麼精準的把它再查到"},{"start":264.958,"end":294.358,"text":"那因為進口商在做這件事情的時候他其實是我們在小署的部分是沒有辦法特別但是我們會予以輔導那因為輔導部分也很困難不在於本署的一個業務的能夠支持但是我們在邊境那決戰在境外的這樣子的心一定是不會改變的以上所以基本上你的意思就是說我們還是有一些防治防備防防制的機制存在但是這好像是廠家就是要跟你賭"},{"start":295.438,"end":320.476,"text":"對不對 他就是在被堵嘛對 我們看到的情形是這樣的然後我們食藥署有這麼大的量能可以跟他對堵嗎我們跟委員報告我們的Border Protection Intelligence就是邊境的智慧茶茶的系統裡面對於這樣子的茶茶已經違規是不得檢出的它自然跳出來的就會變成百分之百只要這個廠家出來馬上就會是每一批"},{"start":321.337,"end":344.892,"text":"因為報關的相關資料裡面我們就可以抓得到所以在這邊特別跟委員報告說我們已經在做所謂的精準抽驗上面已經有量能這樣的提升對國人的安全的努力現在這樣的場景為什麼不把它列作是一個黑名單對它就是黑名單就是我們知道它是黑名單但是我們就會去你覺得它是黑名單它還可以持續的這樣持續的報關來挑戰來跟你賭"},{"start":347.914,"end":372.252,"text":"這在貿易的部分他們自由貿易的廠商的部分我覺得應該要有他們我覺得這應該要有個因應之道吧不能這個樣子嘛對不對你當然有相關的機制完備但是他還敢跟你賭那到底是我們有什麼調整的空間他連賭都不能賭就是他沒有提供安全足夠的這樣的品質保證的情況之下他都不需要賭了就是主角了啦"},{"start":373.012,"end":394.398,"text":"也不用浪費這麼多的人力甚至於還有要用更進步的科技來做專業主角我覺得這應該是可以討論的吧謝謝委員我想這個部分我們一定帶回去看怎麼進一步可能不是單單在衛福部事要署這邊我們能夠在跨部會裡面做一些些溝通協調看怎麼能夠去努力一個月好不好問一下這個邊境一個月應該可以吧"},{"start":400.529,"end":422.815,"text":"因為我們經生的問題我們經不起任何一次的疏忽嘛然後這廠家就是有就是慣性嘛對報告委員這邊其實剛才提到這家廠商真的是在今年1月24號之後我們有停止其輸入的查驗的是已經有這樣子的阻絕的動作今年的1月嘛有停止輸入的查驗嘛對不對是但是你在關稅的時候是今年的2月11號啊對所以"},{"start":424.275,"end":443.978,"text":"在這種情形之下可能在時序上面呢還有讓他們有進來那我們也很因為我們有這個系統我們就有把他攬下來這時間沒有是正確的嘛對不對是的這時間沒有問題啊所以在1月已經有做了更完整的這樣的一個組決怎麼2月11號又發生了辣椒油素質蘇丹農2號跟4號"},{"start":445.479,"end":466.875,"text":"對我們就回去我們直接來去跟跨部會裡面我們有機會能夠去做進一步的溝通再跟委員處報告所以這顯然還是有問題的存在啦還是有盲點啦一個月裡面提出我們相關的一些因應作為好我們來進一步的去研擬這是下部委例嘛因為實際上的問題我們就是不容許不容許農民百姓就是不容許我們卸貸啊"},{"start":467.856,"end":493.001,"text":"我們就是更積極嘛 好不好 謝謝委員好 那第二件事情也是稍微排的 這個非常重要部長你看一下 署長你們請回頭台灣賣入超高齡社會大家都很清楚 65歲已經超過20%長照需求者的人數推估也將高達90萬人以上以因此2026的這個造福專員需求人率將達到造福需求人率 將達到這一個12萬但是你目前看"},{"start":493.801,"end":503.528,"text":"這是往下墜的一個台灣居府人員的成長率從2020年7.79%2021年26%小數領就不再墜數了2022年7.9%2023年1.7%2024年來到1.3%居務員成長率這幾年低迷外我們台灣目前有5萬多的居府然後平均年齡都已經超過50歲未滿25歲才1800僅佔居府的3.6%"},{"start":522.322,"end":551.742,"text":"還是次長你們怎麼看到現在這個狀況這不僅是會有偏鄉老老照顧現在連居府也都是一樣老老居府的窘境怎麼處理怎麼因應次長非常感謝建國委員對於這個問題的關心我跟委員報告兩個重點第一個其實整個居府現在委員剛剛所說的是2020到2024他那個曲線確實是低但是請委員要注意106年我要注意什麼"},{"start":552.282,"end":568.288,"text":"不不不 請委員你就順順講清楚我會非常注意請委員那個那個圖表再貼回去來沒有啦 了解就是說我們從剛開辦的時候 他的曲線是這樣上去的是啊所以我們從剛開始的時候是2.5萬現在是10萬嘛所以現金是4倍所以他的曲線是這樣現在有人說說說說 沒錯 是5年"},{"start":578.032,"end":602.843,"text":"現在也許現在到目前為止現在是目前有點就比較平但是這個部分我們也這個市場就是前幾年長照2.0在推的時候前8年也成長非常非常非常迅速最近這幾年是有點比較平滑但是第二點我們現在目前我也同意整個居福原它的平均年齡確實也偏高所以我們現在目前"},{"start":603.783,"end":628.03,"text":"也希望能夠在這個部分能夠多能夠來來來多推動跟這一個學校學校端這邊的一個合作來來來加強這邊的這一根年輕化當然最重要的還是薪資啦沒錯啦好了好你已經提出問題的所在嘛對不對通常要是薪資嘛所以兩個問題你都講了嘛那第一個問題我們會注意嘛你要注意那個你要把高峰的曲線不要弄出來"},{"start":628.41,"end":649.738,"text":"你不要因為低的才弄出來你要注意一點好不好第二點你就特別提到嘛這個年齡的問題嘛然後再來最主要還是薪資的問題長照長照大家都非常清楚一年的時候平均其實我們都我們都說的比較比較比較和緩一些的說成就還有還有50億沒啦沒這麼多啦"},{"start":652.559,"end":667.647,"text":"其實拜託市長回去可能要再精算一下1.0之前平均1.0才真正的有付出的是多少錢這第一第二長照2.0從小英上來之後隔年的長照基金長照福華等等陸續推動我們從50來億應該是40 50億變成320億一直到現在800多要進入900多了對不對"},{"start":676.551,"end":700.199,"text":"那將近8年 將近8年的長照相關的幾支戶 通通沒有調整這比較有道理 八個黨都沒有人調整你調整什麼 你說我聽因為次長你自己提到薪資的問題嘛 對不對你看喔 小英3年以來 台灣聚力工資每年調漲這個表格各位可以看一下嘛一英文的時候 時薪是1220調到126"},{"start":701.959,"end":707.221,"text":"然後106的時候月薪從20008調到2019一直到114年的一列以後已經來到28590甚至於這個時薪已經調到190了長照怎麼會相關的幾支戶到現在8年連一個微調通通沒有"},{"start":722.842,"end":733.15,"text":"這太過頭注意你就要特別注意這個事情啊你可以注意到曲線你怎麼不曉得你那個長照幾十或八年那個曲線是平的"},{"start":734.252,"end":757.188,"text":"是平的 一定不會動你叫我注意管的因為我注意雞肋的 港肋的嘛你要叫我注意管的 那個白白白你知不知道部長是醫師嘛 很清楚到醫院有讀我看到一個數據是白白白代表什麼你知道嗎早我已經說了嘛所以要注意嘛白白白你注意嘛 已經不會有啊"},{"start":759.326,"end":764.707,"text":"對不對現在要怎麼處理注意怎麼會把你完全都沒有動然後我們現在又針對喔衛部又針對長照3.0將讓入什麼有三項嘛第一經醫師診斷危老狀況且是能影響到日常生活第二經醫師診斷為癌末"},{"start":782.731,"end":802.027,"text":"然後預期壽命低於六個月的私人病患那我們現在在第三項是符合前述條件且符合勞動力中階啦這個技術人力的取得永久居留權的外籍專業人士我們要擴大這個對象嘛對不對我們在擴大對象但我們一直不提升相關的給支付你怎麼有人你怎麼補起來"},{"start":807.551,"end":817.498,"text":"你從很多的面向去處理 要讓更多的這個造福人力長照機構人力 我知道都有在做但是你的誘因在什麼地方 你的鼓勵在什麼地方處長都說是了 你叫他去注意啊我以後自己會好好注意啦"},{"start":831.221,"end":835.124,"text":"非常佩服委員長期以來對這個問題的關心我相信真的是確實誠如委員剛才所說的我想這個需求要再提高長照其實最重要的就是人力"},{"start":846.694,"end":862.104,"text":"因為我們也知道人力成本佔百分之六十嘛所以這個部分我們現在目前會根據我們的那個組合長照照顧組合的機制來做一個相關的一個成本效益分析但是我們現在是這樣啦簡單來講就是說業者應該自己的經驗應該最了解裡面的成本的那個結構所以你只要業者那邊拿出來大家都可以來探討嘛注意"},{"start":876.38,"end":899.694,"text":"人家早早就已經提出來了市民們沒有注意到啦報告委員我們也跟這個居民這邊有跟他們拜託但他們說請他們提出但是他們到目前為止其實是不會的啦那我就會特別注意居民到底在做什麼是不是沒關係他們沒有提出啦我會注意他們為什麼沒有提出之後來跟你回報"},{"start":900.68,"end":929.437,"text":"但是他們如果有提出那就要換你注意了對 沒錯我要提到一點喔我們 我剛才特別用那個就是基本工資來看待整個這個成長嘛那你怎麼可能會成照相關的幾支或標準照理講你也應該參考嘛 評估嘛就像可以依照基本工資啦還是勞健保費率啦 物價指數來做微調嘛即便居如沒有提出來至少還是可以來做嘛因為你剛剛特別提到的兩個點的中間的一個點薪資問題嘛"},{"start":931.098,"end":956.096,"text":"所以不是只有居府 長照機構的人員基本上都是如此嘛所以是整體來做這個面向來做調查 來做相關的這些可以依據的參考我們應該 時間到了啦 要進到3.0之前就應該來做調整啦好不好 不然這樣等嘛好不好 會啦 你們來注意齁謝謝部長 一起注意 一個月內"},{"start":957.057,"end":960.603,"text":"我們把這個注意事情處理完成 好不好好 謝謝 謝謝大家的注意"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1219,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（13時38分）謝謝主席，有請部長還有署長。"],["邱部長泰源：食藥署嗎？"],["劉委員建國：對，FDA。"],["邱部長泰源：召委好。"],["劉委員建國：部長好。昨天中華民國養豬協會潘連周理事長在媒體上表示：開放進口萊豬至今已經四年，消費大眾證明對進口豬肉沒有興趣，只有加工廠商會基於成本採購，所以不太擔心進口內臟和豬腳會影響國產豬肉，只要政府嚴格把關並追查豬肉動向，但無論是肉品、內臟還是加工品都需要做到產地標示，避免有魚目混珠的情況，也保障國內豬農的權益。部長對潘理事長的說法有什麼看法？"],["邱部長泰源：現在就是這樣在做。"],["劉委員建國：好，現在就是這樣做，但是潘理事長這段話的重點就是政府要嚴格把關並追查豬肉動向，我們到底有沒有嚴格把關？因為他表示：一週內連續有三批萊豬進口不可能是包裝錯誤或是巧合，畢竟所有貨物進口都要經過檢驗、封櫃然後報關，這次一週就有兩次澳洲萊豬進來，代表澳洲端沒有確實檢驗，這才是問題所在。所以目前臺灣在邊境的把關，萊豬抽驗已經過了這4年，是不是開始有一些疏忽懈怠？不然怎麼會有這種事情發生？"],["邱部長泰源：好，應該不會，是不是容我請署長說明？"],["劉委員建國：好，請署長。"],["姜署長至剛：報告委員，關於澳洲這3批，後來我們追查發現，其實後方製造廠是同一家，貿易商的部分，是由2家貿易商進口，所以原則上是來自同一家製造商的產品。至於在邊境查察的部分，我們一直以來都希望做到更精準、智慧型的抽驗，過去一路以來也都沒有查到它的風險，所以的確是從以前的逐批查察降為現在2%到10%的查察比率。以2%到10%的查察比率，照我們目前看到的，雖然這次檢出值0.001ppm到0.003ppm小於我們的0.01ppm標準值，但是剛才在委員會裡，有一些是委員們特別提醒我們、要我們增加的，我們也承諾會讓國人更為安心，把查察比率往上提升，這邊也特別向委員做進一步報告。"],["劉委員建國：好，我是儘量讓署長講得完整啦！如果是這樣，也就是提高檢驗量能，要嚇阻這些事情基本上應該沒有多大的問題啦！","但我再引用一個例子給你參考，那時你還沒有當署長。這家印度BOS香料與調味料公司在去年6月18日被查出紅椒色素產品有蘇丹紅4號，同樣是去年12月17號，又被查到紅椒色素檢測出蘇丹紅1、2、4號三種，今年2月11日又有辣椒油樹脂被檢出蘇丹紅2號跟4號，這是今年。去年2月27日，食藥署新聞稿寫得很清楚，無論是邊境或後市場，只要檢出蘇丹紅，立即停止輸入查驗。那簡單來講，這家BOS公司在去年6月18日被查驗之後，就應該立即停止輸入查驗，為什麼在12月與今年2月11日都還可以持續進口？這家BOS公司一直在挑戰臺灣的邊境查驗，如果哪一次真的疏忽，又讓它進來了，誰要負責？"],["姜署長至剛：我在這邊跟委員進一步報告，其實就是因為我們的邊境查驗系統是智慧型的，它是不得檢出但檢出了，所以我們把查驗比率不斷調高之後，達到百分之百，其實產品還沒到港口、還沒進入邊境，我們一知道這家公司有進口就馬上查察，所以才有這個機會能夠精準地再次查到。進口商在做這件事情的時候，其實我們食藥署沒有辦法特別處理，而是予以輔導，輔導部分也很困難，不是本署的業務能夠支持，但我們在邊境、決戰於境外的心是一定不會改變的，以上。"],["劉委員建國：所以基本上你的意思是，我們還是有一些防制機制存在，但是這個廠家就是好像要跟你賭，對不對？他們就是在跟你賭嘛！"],["姜署長至剛：對，我們看到的情形是這樣。"],["劉委員建國：那食藥署有這麼大的量能可以跟他們對賭嗎？"],["姜署長至剛：在我們的border protection intelligence，也就是邊境智慧查察系統的查察，面對已經違規、不得檢出者，跳出來的標準自然就會變成百分之百，只要是這家廠商出來的每一批產品，馬上就是……因為我們從報關相關資料裡面就可以抓到，所以我在這邊要特別跟委員報告，我們在精準抽驗上已經有量能的提升，這是我們對國人安全的努力。"],["劉委員建國：好，像這樣的廠家為什麼不把他列為黑名單？"],["姜署長至剛：他就是黑名單。"],["劉委員建國：OK。"],["姜署長至剛：我們知道他是黑名單，只要進口就一定會……"],["劉委員建國：你知道他是黑名單，他們還可以這樣持續報關、挑戰、來跟你賭？"],["姜署長至剛：在自由貿易上，應該要由自由貿易的廠商回饋給他們。"],["劉委員建國：我覺得應該要有因應之道吧？不能這樣嘛！對不對？當你相關機制完備，他們卻還敢跟你賭，那我們到底有什麼調整的空間？讓他連賭都不能賭，也就是在沒有提供足夠安全品質保證的情況之下，他都不需要賭了，就是阻絕了啦！也不用浪費這麼多人力，甚至用更進步的科技做阻絕嘛！我覺得這應該是可以討論的吧？"],["姜署長至剛：謝謝委員，這麼部份我們一定帶回去，看看怎麼進一步處理。可能不單單是在衛福部食藥署這邊，應該能夠跨部會做一些溝通、協調，看看能夠怎麼努力。"],["劉委員建國：1個月，好不好？可以吧？"],["姜署長至剛：我要問一下邊境……"],["劉委員建國：1個月應該可以吧！因為生命問題禁不起任何一次疏忽，而且這個廠家就是慣性違規嘛！"],["姜署長至剛：報告委員，其實針對剛才提到這家廠商，我們已經在今年1月24日之後停止廠家其輸入查驗，已經有這樣的阻絕動作了。"],["劉委員建國：今年1月停止輸入查驗嘛！"],["姜署長至剛：是。"],["劉委員建國：但再發生的時間是今年2月11日啊！"],["姜署長至剛：對，這種情形可能是因為時序上的關係讓他們還有產品持續進來，但也因為我們有這個查驗系統，所以把它攔下來。"],["劉委員建國：這個時間是正確的，對不對？"],["姜署長至剛：是的，這是正確的。"],["劉委員建國：所以時間沒有問題啊！既然1月已經做了更完整的阻絕，怎麼會在2月11日又發生辣椒油樹脂含蘇丹紅2號和4號的事件？"],["姜署長至剛：我們回去會直接跨部會處理，等我們有機會進一步溝通再跟委員報告。"],["劉委員建國：顯然這裡還是有問題存在啦！還是有盲點啦！請在1個月內提出相關的因應作為。"],["姜署長至剛：好，我們進一步研擬跟報告。"],["劉委員建國：下不為例嘛！對於食安問題，人民、百姓就是不容許我們懈怠啊！就是要更積極嘛！好不好？"],["姜署長至剛：是，謝謝委員。"],["劉委員建國：好。第二件事情也是召委排的，這非常重要啦！部長，你看一下，署長請回。臺灣邁入超高齡社會大家都很清楚，65歲以上人口已經超過20%，長照需求者人數推估將高達90萬人以上，也因此2026年照服專員需求人力將達到12萬人，但是目前來看，臺灣居服人員的成長率是往下墜的，從2020年的79%、2021年26%，小數點我就不再贅述了，2022年7.9%、2023年1.7%，2024年來到1.3%。除了這幾年居服員成長率低迷以外，臺灣目前有五萬多名居服人力，平均年齡已經超過50歲，未滿25歲者才1,800人，僅占居服人力的3.6%。部長或次長，你們怎麼看待現在這個狀況？不僅會有偏鄉老老照顧的現象，現在連居服也一樣有老老居服的窘境嘛！怎麼處理、怎麼因應？"],["邱部長泰源：我請次長。"],["呂次長建德：非常感謝建國委員對於這個問題的關心，我跟委員報告兩個重點。第一，其實看整個居服，在委員剛剛所說的是從2022年到2024年，曲線確實是低，但是請委員注意，106年……"],["劉委員建國：我要注意什麼？你慎重講清楚，我會非常注意。"],["呂次長建德：不，是請委員了解，我們剛開辦的時候，它的曲線是上去的，剛開始的時候是2.5萬人，現在是10萬人，所以成長了4倍。"],["劉委員建國：是啦！"],["呂次長建德：所以它的曲線是這樣，現在委員講的沒有錯，以曲線來看，目前確實比較平，這部分是因為市場上在推動長照2.0，前8年成長非常迅速，最近這幾年是比較平緩。","第二點，我也同意委員所講的，目前居服員的平均年齡確實偏高，所以我們也希望在這個部份多推動，跟學校端合作，加強這部分的年輕化。當然最重要的也是薪資，沒錯啦！"],["劉委員建國：好，你已經點出問題所在了，對不對？"],["呂次長建德：是。"],["劉委員建國：最重要的是薪資嘛！"],["呂次長建德：沒有錯。"],["劉委員建國：所以兩個問題你都講了嘛！第一個問題我們會注意，助理要注意，你要把高峰的曲線表弄出來……"],["呂次長建德：是我要注意啦！抱歉！"],["劉委員建國：不要低的才弄出來，你要注意一點好不好？我已經提醒他了。"],["呂次長建德：對，我會注意。"],["劉委員建國：第二點就是剛剛特別提到的年齡問題。"],["呂次長建德：是。"],["劉委員建國：再來，最主要的還是薪資問題嘛！"],["呂次長建德：沒錯。"],["劉委員建國：對於長照，大家都非常清楚，長照1.0的時候平均……其實我們都說得比較和緩一些，稱平均還有50億元，其實沒有，沒有這麼多啦！拜託次長，回去以後可能要再精算一下，長照1.0之前，平均一年真正付出的是多少錢？這是第一點。","第二，長照2.0從小英總統上來之後，隔年有長照基金、長照服務法等陸續推動，從五十來億元……應該是四、五十億元變成320億元，一直到現在的八百多億元、要進入九百多億元了吧！對不對？"],["呂次長建德：沒錯。"],["劉委員建國：將近8年的長照相關給支付統統沒有調整，這有道理嗎？8年都沒有調整！不然調整了什麼？你講給我聽。次長，你自己提到薪資的問題嘛！對不對？你看，小英上任以來，臺灣最低工資每年調漲，這個表格各位可以看一下，105年時薪從120元調到126元，106年，月薪從2萬8元調到2萬1,009元，一直到114年1月1日，已經來到2萬8,590元，時薪甚至已經調到190元了，那長照相關給支付到現在已經8年，怎麼會連微調統統沒有？這太……注意！你已經特別注意到這件事情了啊！"],["呂次長建德：對啊！"],["劉委員建國：你可以注意到曲線，怎麼會不曉得長照給支付8年來的曲線是平的？是平的，動也不動！你只叫我注意高的，因為我注意走低的、降下來的，所以你要我注意高的，那這條曲線則是平平的，你可知道……部長，你是醫師嘛！你很清楚。"],["呂次長建德：我知道。"],["劉委員建國：到了醫院，如果看到一個數據平平的，代表什麼你知道嗎？"],["主席：死掉了。"],["劉委員建國：對啊！召委已經說了，所以要注意嘛！"],["呂次長建德：沒有錯。"],["劉委員建國：不過等到曲線平平的才注意也已經來不及了啊！對不對？"],["呂次長建德：是啦！"],["劉委員建國：那現在要怎麼辦？CPR？還是要怎麼處理？注意！怎麼會8年來完全沒有動？然後衛福部現在針對長照3.0將納入什麼？有3項，第一是經醫師診斷為腦中風且失能、影響到日常生活；第二是經醫師診斷為癌末、預期壽命低於6個月的失能病患，第三項是符合前述條件且符合勞動部中階技術人力條件，取得永久居留權的外籍專業人士，也就是要擴大對象，對不對？"],["呂次長建德：對，沒錯。"],["劉委員建國：好，我們在擴大對象，但一直不提升相關給支付，那怎麼會有人？人力怎麼補得起來？你從很多面向處理，要增加更多照服人力、長照機構人力，我知道都有在做，但是誘因在什麼地方、鼓勵在什麼地方？"],["呂次長建德：是。"],["劉委員建國：次長一直說是，還叫我注意，我也一直注意看你要回答我什麼啊！"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，我自己以後一定會好好注意。"],["劉委員建國：好。"],["呂次長建德：我非常佩服委員長期以來對這個問題的關心，確實誠如委員剛剛所講的，需求在提高，其實長照最重要的就是人力，我們也知道人力成本占60%嘛！"],["劉委員建國：是啊！"],["呂次長建德：所以在這個部分，我們會根據照顧組合的機制做相關的成本效益分析。簡單來說，業者自己在經營應該最了解其中的成本結構，所以只要業者那邊提出來，大家都可以探討嘛！"],["劉委員建國：注意！人家早就已經提出來了，是你們沒有注意到啦！"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，我們也向居盟拜託，請他們提出，但是他們到目前為止其實還沒啦！"],["劉委員建國：那我就要特別注意居盟到底在做什麼，是不是？"],["呂次長建德：不用啦！我們自己會……"],["劉委員建國：沒關係，是他們沒有提出，我會注意他們為什麼沒有提出之後再跟你回報，但如果他們有提出，那就換你要注意了。"],["呂次長建德：對，沒錯。"],["劉委員建國：我要提到一點喔！我剛才特別用最低基本工資來看待整體成長，那長照相關給支付標準怎麼可能會不動？照理講你也應該參考、評估嘛！"],["呂次長建德：對，沒錯。"],["劉委員建國：就像可以依照基本工資、勞健保費率、物價指數微調嘛！即便居盟沒有提出來，次長還是可以做嘛！因為在你剛剛特別提到的兩個點當中，就有一個點是薪資問題嘛！對吧？"],["呂次長建德：對啦！"],["劉委員建國：不是只有居服，長照機構的人員基本上都是如此嘛！所以要就這個面向整體調查，作為相關依據、參考，進到3.0之前就應該調整啦！好嗎？"],["呂次長建德：OK。"],["劉委員建國：部長，這樣可以嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我們來注意。"],["劉委員建國：好啦！你們來注意喔？好，謝謝部長一起注意，我們一起在1個月內把這件要注意的事情處理完成，這樣好嗎？"],["呂次長建德：好。"],["劉委員建國：謝謝大家的注意。"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝劉召委，全部都在注意啦！謝謝部長。","最後一位請陳瑩委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":256,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-10","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","林淑芬","涂權吉","黃秀芳","王正旭","陳瑩","廖偉翔","陳培瑜","李坤城","徐富癸","楊瓊瓔","楊曜","劉書彬","劉建國","黃國昌","顏寬恒","張嘉郡","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","翁曉玲"],"page_start":163,"meetingDate":["2025-05-08"],"gazette_id":"1144701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請衛生福利部部長就「長照2.0執行情形檢討及3.0未來規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢；\n二、邀請衛生福利部部長就「澳洲進口豬腳驗出含萊克多巴胺，如何加強肉品食安查驗，讓民眾\n放心」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144701_00004"}}}